Flaps and Landing gear seperate toggles

[empty schooner]

make an option in game settings to toggle flaps and landing gear seperatly.

[weak shell]

nah, against this

f16 has automated gear/flaps, f35 probably too, as well as maybe f22, which are the most modern planes. the in game planes are following their design philosophy of more automation=less workload

[iron frost]

keep gears and flaps together but add flaps seperately for slowing down while staying in the air(dogfights, low alt bombing)

[lost shuttle]

Airbrakes are used to slow down, not flaps. Aircraft equipped with airbrakes automatically deploy them when you go to 0% throttle.

[indigo orbit]

it essentially deploys at -1% throttle, since you still can set it to 0%

[noble quest]

Nope, in the F16 you can set the flaps to combat without toggling the landing gear

I think this would be an amazing thing for the game since with flaps the turn ratio will significantly increase and the dogfights would definetly be better

[weak shell]

you have emergency alternate flaps, thats it.

[lost shuttle]

Not familiar with the F-16, but are you getting MORE flap extension when you set them to combat, or just setting them to a static angle?

Most modern FBW systems have an auto setting so that the FCS can set the flaps in the optimum position for the speed/AoA/etc you're at. So having them set at a static angle is worse for dogfighting than just letting the FCS do its thing.

If you're getting more extension by putting them in combat, then youll get a bit of an advantage to low speed lift, but really thats it. At the end of the day I'd rather see flaps just be transparent to the end user, and the FCS do the work since its the more modern approach.

[noble quest]

I think you missunderstood the request , the OP said that he wants flaps . We dont care if they are automatically deployed or not. All we want is flaps to be separate from the la ding gear so we could use them not inly when we’re landing but also during the flight

[lost shuttle]

If auto flaps controlled by FCS is the request I'm all for it. The OP was asking for "an option in game settings to toggle flaps and landing gear separately." IMO that sounded like they want a bind to manually control flaps with, which I dont think is needed.

[noble quest]

Yeh, I misunderstood the request aswell. But yeah idc by what means we get to deploy them but we need some flaps because its very hard to learn to dogfight in the revoker since it stalls very easily, by deploying flaps it would be way easier to dogfight with it

[iron frost]

i know this already; airbrakes slow you down but they make you stall, flaps slow you down but extends stall speeds

[weak shell]

no, its literally the normal flaps that come down automatically with gear, but without gear. also the flaps, even with emergency flaps on, are automatically controlled and dont extend above a certian speed (around 250-300 kts)

also if you have both gear (which activates flaps) and emergency flaps activated, its the same flap deflection angle as with just gear

and there are no combat flaps. go ahead, find me the switch in the cockpit that actuates them aside from emergency flaps or gear @noble quest

[noble quest]

the F16 has the so called ,,alt flaps" aside from the flaperons

[lost shuttle]

Seems like the core issue is that people are looking for better low speed performance out of the Revoker.

Hear me out: What if the Revoker isnt supposed to be a low speed turn fighter?

[noble quest]

Fair point, I am not looking for better low speed for the revoker im just trying to show this guy that the F16 has f ing flaps aside of the flaperons

[lost shuttle]

We all know it has flaps. This isnt true though: "Nope, in the F16 you can set the flaps to combat without toggling the landing gear" I think the point is that flaps are controlled by the FCS unless the gear is down (even then you need to be below a certain speed for them to deploy IIRC).

[weak shell]

which is what i was talking about

they dont help with dogfighting though, as everything is controlled by the fcs and its tuned to provide the best performance possible. if using flaps was beneficial, it would do that by itself.

[noble quest]

So @weak shell the F16 has indeed the flaperons who are automatically activated via the FCS they are used only for landing and takeoff. BUT the f16 has, as I said before ,,alt flaps’’ which can be deployed from the switches on the rearmost left pannel. If you set the alt flaps to extend they will extend the trail edge of the aircraft and act like a smaller version of the flaperons, their use ISNT for combat since they are verry sensible to high G s amount, this may be the reason why you think flaps shouldnt be added in the game and they are useless

[weak shell]

i know, i use it sometimes. thought they were called emergency flaps though

[noble quest]

Even with that, why wont you want them in the game. It would help the revoker recover from stalls and make the plane a lot easier to fly

[weak shell]

nope, not the case.

[noble quest]

Why?

[weak shell]

because the fcs would be able to actuate them better than you.

[lost shuttle]

Again, because maybe the Revoker shouldnt be good at everything. Each aircraft has a niche, strengths and weaknesses. Voker is very clearly the boom and zoom fighter. If you're getting turned into the ground or stalling, maybe its time to stop turning with Crickets/Compasses and try a different tactic.

[noble quest]

Fair

[weak shell]

i say it should have a really powerful fcs, which does its best at helping you recover. flaps also would not help the wingloading, which is what it struggles at currently

[lost shuttle]

I honestly think its fine, planes fly so good in this game that even the Revoker turns quite well. IMO the worst part about the Revoker is babysitting your pilot so they dont GLOC.

The thing has TV, so if you put out the boards, pull aft stick, then feed the power back in you can get a few really good turns out of it. Enough to solve most problems, or realize its time to light the burner and run lol.

[weak shell]

i know, sometimes controlling the thing post stall can be tricky though. it should be upgraded with proper fcs

[lost shuttle]

But consequences for bad flying are fun! 😂

[weak shell]

no :,(

[narrow otter]

will not lie there are combat flap settings for a lot of aircraft currently in service (F/A 18 and all models included) hell F-15's A-10's AC-130's all get those too having separate flap controls could make one hell of a difference in a dog fight as well as help with evasion im for it

[lost shuttle]

Arent the A-10 and F-18's flaps Auto/Half/Full?

[narrow otter]

A models still have combat

[lost shuttle]

But why would we want manual control over them, instead of just having the FCS do the work?

[narrow otter]

trust me when you can adjust your circle on the fly it gives one hell of a advantage. . . Combat flaps are a setting that allow for you to stay at combat speed but also allow for far better maneuvering the major drawback is that you cant go beyond 500 KTS so strictly dogfight speed and the plane can end up causing GLOC much faster

advantages of full flaps also end up acting like airbrakes as well so they could allow for much shorter landing speeds

[lost shuttle]

The reason the A model 18 has a combat setting, but the C model has an "Auto" setting isnt because they lost that capability. Its because the FCS automatically sets the flaps to the best angle for you, without any input. As jets get more modern they have mostly been migrating towards automatic flaps

[lost shuttle]

The flaps go to full when you put the gear down. So having flaps on a separate control doesnt help this situation

[narrow otter]

fair but still even if in auto the combat setting applies still does the same just automatic (but not an active feature of NO there are no auto flaps in flight only when gear is deployed)

[lost shuttle]

Sure, the FCS could be given control over the flaps, but what would that benefit? Basically just the Revoker. The Compass and Cricket already turn very well.

IMO its a balance decision at that point. The Revoker is the afterburning boom & zoom fighter, it doesnt need to also turn well and behave itself at low speed. That is the other two airframes' place to excel.

[weak shell]

not really, the revoker flaps are so far back that they invoke too much downward pitch, which in turn requires deflection of the canards

[idle ore]

Having airbrakes while thrust is at 50% could allow for a more controlled descent for a safer landing that is softer. (Less than 1 meter a second of descent to make it soft on tires, just 10km/h above STALL speed so that the breaks don't rip off the rubber. Landing gear is expensive and 16 hours of maintenance per flight hour on average is extreme, and typically applies to modern fighter aircraft. So it feels immersive to have that capacity!

[idle ore]

Yep! A fighter pilot isn't there JUST to focus on the aerodynamics, flight envelope, paying attention to the humidity and the temperature and all the nozzles. While it can be a joy to fly, there is also a strategic decision making aspect to it. There is no need to pay attention to something a computer can do for you. I really like the automation approach. Decide the direction, and the platform does the rest. That said though, airbreaks are still effective with thrust active, for when specific results are needing such as a combination of speed and climb/descent rate.

[weak shell]

I agree with this, when you are using airbrakes you have to use more thrust to sytay above stall speed, pushing the engine to a better response rate

[lost shuttle]

I see the value, but then we'd need 1-2 new control binds for either toggle, or deploy/retract airbrakes. Unless Mitch wants to do control wheels, modifier buttons, or some other type of sub menu, we're already pretty close to the limit for controllers.

@weak shell and @idle ore ^

[weak shell]

thats true too

maybe wheelbrake can be changed to just brake in general

[lost shuttle]

That'd be a good change. Airbrake toggle in the air, gear toggle on the ground.

[weak shell]

gear toggle? or do you mean wheel brake toggle?

[lost shuttle]

Yeah brake lol

[indigo cedar]

Yeah that’d work fine I think

[tacit fractal]

You could do it like the F18 Super Hornet does which has Auto Flaps that keep adding more degrees the slower you get. This way the flaps are still automated for landings but they can be "toggled" on by just flying slow enough for a speed where they are safe to use.

[stoic gazelle]

coming back to this. Flaps are absolutely have to be a separate option. You try to accelerate your turn by lowering down flaps (via landing gear key) and then your weapons are disabled. Thats kind of stupid. Make them rip off if you deploy them at high speeds but make a separate key for flaps only

[weak shell]

flaps are independent to gear now.

[stoic gazelle]

what? where do I find this

cannot find it in controls

[weak shell]

they are deployed with low speed

[stoic gazelle]

aw naw. I thought you could reliably use it in dogfights. Thats lame

[weak shell]

just integrating them to the FCS is the best option

[stoic gazelle]

idk even the most basic aviation games like arma 3 have it as a separate option and its really useful even for CAS

[lost shuttle]

Auto flaps makes the most sense, manually actuating flaps in an aircraft is outdated. There are already planes with auto flaps, so it makes sense that it'd be standard on most planes by the timeframe of NO.

[stoic gazelle]

but what about "rip my plane apart with 20G maneuvers" button? 😦