General Thread

[vital eagle]

But its TBM HE tho?

I guess ill need to ban nukes so AI dont use them outside of tactical

[warm quiver]

It can be either

But since piledrivers are supposed to be a late game weapon, even the conventional one is restricted to strategic

[frank thicket]

#1451128108663963700 message CHRISTMAS CAME EARLY

[elfin galleon]

Its finally here

[vital eagle]

I mean i would understand if it was tactical level despite being conventional in every way but cmon? Strategic?

[warm quiver]

It might be so they can saturate with the nuclear ones

[astral helm]

yay, its fixed

[indigo valley]

@vital eagle

[warm quiver]

guhhh having to do a surprising amount of testing to get my mission 0.32-ready

[frank thicket]

i may be up to no good

[astral helm]

I have a lot of questions

[peak sequoia]

That's probably the least questionable thing

[frank thicket]

i swear to god it makes sense in context

[astral helm]

alright then
im quite exited to see what that mission about

[frank thicket]

how do we tell him

[peak sequoia]

We don't

Let the cabal Converse in peace and just not give any context until it's finished

[short meadow]

is that the borealis

[peak sequoia]

Oh yeah also remember the blood pact

[frank thicket]

wh

tfw no multi unit copy paste

[dry bramble]

Will all aircraft spawned in the scenario editor just act individually under AI control?

It doesn't look like it's possible to assign them to specific coordinated missions (I.E. Patrol a designated route and jam stuff, or form up and launch a strike at X unit once it is detected, etc.)

[sharp flower]

Can I make an AI land and ignore the objective?

[alpine hull]

yes

[sharp flower]

yeah i forgot i asked

i found a workaround

give em barely enough fuel to make it back to base

[alpine hull]

or empty out their munitions

[dry bramble]

Is there any way to stop AI ships from dumping their entire magazines into every single MMR/Scythe that is launched in their sight?

[astral helm]

sadly no
nothing can be really done right now with the AI that regards their target priorities and firing

[pulsar turtle]

Hi, I am trying out the mission editor, in particular I would like units to spawn on detection trigger, I see the Spot Unit event in the objectives, but this doesnt seem to work..

I put the faction to enemy faction, set my friendly vehicles as the even targets and the outcomes do not trigger.

[smoky anvil]

GPS malfunction.. it happens to the best sailors.

[astral helm]

does your detection trigger is starting ?
you also need to make sure that its starting, either from mission start or other objective

[pulsar turtle]

ah ok got it, I wasnt initializing it from the mission start

thanks, is there any way to apply this to non pre-spawned units? like the ones you can spawn in from a base?

[astral helm]

I dont think so
tho, would be cool if there was a way to just include Type of unit instead of existing one

[pulsar turtle]

thanks, alternatively, is there a way to prespawn units and let the player decide which one to take? because it just dumps me into one of them whenever I hit play

of course aside from putting them into reserve

[astral helm]

I cant think of something besides that
so only that is a way right now probably

[smoky anvil]

I have trouble updating missions, any idea?

[short meadow]

do you have
? : < > in your mission name ?

or do you have -1 bar of wifi

[smoky anvil]

nothing like that

[smoky anvil]

haha. very funny.

it is this mission.. and I have updated it 10 times, now that I wanted to work in stuff for the new patch it does not update any longer https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3529964440

[smoky anvil]

I have just deleted the old one and re-uploaded it. kind of odd, but I have no idea why it did not do that..

the re-upload with a slightliy different name works just fine.. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3627515105

[smoky anvil]

oddly enough, while the re-upload worked, once I try to update the mission, it still fails again.

I can upload that mission just fine, I do not find any faults.. but it will not update for the life of me.. I only added units from the last patch, I suspect something in them triggers a check

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3627545890

[dry bramble]

I see. I take it there's no way to influence a landing queue for a single runway airfield either?

In the scenario I'm currently working on, a spawned airstrike wave gets derailed 50% of the time because a few Revokers decide to land on the single-runway airfield with a dozen planes queuing up for takeoff as opposed to on the other, perfectly empty airbase 5 minutes away. They spend so much time landing that the entire strike package gets plastered by AShM-300s, or whatever else is thrown at the airbase during this time.

(The most entertaining such event was when a volley of ARADs locked onto the radar of a Revoker that was awaiting takeoff clearance and knocked out both it and the two planes beside it)

On a related note, is the map grid square a hard boundary? Or is it possible to spawn units outside of it? I've noticed that some AI planes will fly way outside of the marked map boundaries, and if I can spawn the fleet further north, it would alleviate some of their ammo expenditure issues.

[astral helm]

Airfield landing is quite a deep hole, I myself tried to make AI to use one half to land, one to takeoff but it was working quite unreliably
what I get is that if end or start points are quite close to each other, that will mess up with takeoff behavior, but if they are quite some distance away that is okay, in the end I have done + shape airfield where AI tho dangerously but manage to fly

What about map boundaries, well you can try to drag units away or write their cords if that wont work you can try edit .json file of the mission, its pretty handy and not hard to do
Basically you need to "open folder" with the missions that you are doing and that can be done on the selection screen of the mission

[dry bramble]

I see

I've had some rather entertaining moments result from planes attempting to land in both directions at once and colliding as a result. Usually non-fatally

This dumbass did manage to taxi all the way to resupply, and in the process held up a dozen Compasses for 10 whole minutes

Overall though, I'm actually quite impressed by the AI in this game.

It feels like their automatic loadout selection is context-based, and they will generally select decent-ish weapons for the situation

I just wish that there were ways to control it a bit, so that it didn't always default to aggressive attack.

The ability to create areas of operation and patrol routes, order aircraft to sit back and jam, or have planes form up into concentrated strike packages before attacking all at once would all greatly improve the game. Even the ability to have units move at the same speed would be a good improvement, as that would mean that naval formations don't drift apart over time

[astral helm]

yeah, something like direct order to a unit or "unit type" is such an awaited thing by me

[gusty goblet]

loadouts are completely randomized on each hardpoint except for utility aircraft and darkreach

[frank thicket]

nuclear option ai passes the turing test 😭

[lime cairn]

Has anyone tried to make a wall of defence mission where players have to work together to break through? I am talking launchers with unlimited ammo, where to defeat players have to strike at the same time

[warm quiver]

Many missions do this

Usually not as the whole mission though, since getting players to work together, much less conduct a synchronised strike, is VERY difficult

[lime cairn]

I just tried it, with both strato launchers and CRAMs for close defense

lets just say that CRAMs dont care about friendly fire 😭

[astral helm]

Yeeeah, that quite the issue
none of units currently are avoiding friendly fire

[lime cairn]

was thinking of making elevated platforms for crams

so there is a less of a chance for them hitting down and hitting friendlies

[lime cairn]

if only the editor was friendlier 😭

[lime cairn]

Beautiful

[sick olive]

Spawnable munitions gives me a really funny idea that involves a giant gun and demo bombs spawned at mach 3

[lime cairn]

interesting that AI planes try to flank this hellhole of defense I made

they actually get like 5km close to it hiding behind terrain, pop up and toss the bombs then try to survive lol

[sick olive]

Yep, that'll fly a good 60km

[lime cairn]

is there a way to get damage logs? So I can see what destroyed what, cuz I think I still might have some friendly fire but unsure

and then one bad cram and this happens

[lime cairn]

after some testing with letting AI suicide
You can really do a lot with the defenses and unlimited ammo

it seems that Revoker is the best for AI, it carries the ARAD missiles and is actually able to get up close and fast, which seems to be the winning strategy

[astral helm]

I mean, my number 1 problem is that its simple, too simple
some quite good things that generally are in mission editors of all sorts are lacking from it

[lime cairn]

Thats what I meant sorry

No drag multi select is painful

[astral helm]

only to try and spectate yourself
also, debug mode is quite a good help (in troubleshoting AI, see where they going and etc)

[lime cairn]

how do I toggle that?

[astral helm]

it should come soon'ish

[astral helm]

Settings>Graphics>debug visualization

[lime cairn]

Let me try it out

[astral helm]

tho you need to restart mission so it properly toggled on

[lime cairn]

Whats the range on munitions containers?

[astral helm]

100m
Bunkers iirc are 300m same as munition trucks

[lime cairn]

What are good missile defense units apart from strato launcher?

CRAM works, but need something fire and forget

and strato fires too slow if you overwhelm it 😄

also want something that is good for close range

[astral helm]

lasers could do too
you can just try to mix defence with lasers, crams, boltstrike even because they too can intercept munition like r9

[lime cairn]

wai t lasers?

[astral helm]

Yeah, HLT-HEL and MSV LADS

[lime cairn]

say less

[astral helm]

Also Spearhead have them, but its much weaker one and used more as self defence thingy

and lasers could be quite oppressive even in small numbers

[lime cairn]

whats the difference between HLT units and MSV?

or just different design

yeah damn, Laser did protect from suicide ARAD rush, crazy

and I am assuming there is no way to toggle AI yet? To let LADS only target projectiles instead of planes?

[astral helm]

Well, laser by default only target projectile
it cant fire on planes

[lime cairn]

Hmmmmmm, we sure about that?

I see lots of planes being destroyed by lasers

maybe by destroying the bombs?

I guess not, hmmm. I am pretty sure I saw LADS killing planes

Okay, another question. Is there any simple way to quickly copy many units? Like, if I make myself a template, select them and copy them?

[astral helm]

Sadly no at the moment, tho you can for example toggle this checkmark at the bottom to just place units
but setting their skill, hold position and etc you would need to do manually
copy unit info would help tho

[dry bramble]

Or shift+click to place multiple units without said toggle

[steep dagger]

but you cannot place them all as HOLD position and with needed skill level

[median slate]

is there any way to force a unit to do something, like an annex to send their landers or a dynamo to fire their cruise missiles ?

[dry bramble]

Yeah, that needs to be done manually

Sadge

No, I don't think so, outside of a global weapon use restriction

[astral helm]

Sadly no, I cant wait for something like that to be finally implemented

[median slate]

oh man

i hope they do expand on the potential of mission editor

[near shard]

Is there an easier way to restrict weapons across both factions? Like a multiselect or something? Reopening and scrolling for every weapon for both factions gets a little tedious

[rocky gorge]

does fire control skill affect anything?

[near shard]

How does the road editor work? I can click to place the roads but I'm not able to like confirm it or anything

[gusty goblet]

enter

[astral helm]

that the only way I belive
but yeah, something like a checkbox for each weapon that you can just click and with shift click select multiple to restrict would be nice to have

[elfin galleon]

and give me a modify restrictions outcome while were here

god that would be so nice

[smoky anvil]

I just click a ton to deselect all and then only add the ones I want.. more work, but it is so easy to forget something on things balanced around restrictions

[near shard]

That’s a good idea

[topaz flicker]

Does assigning buildings to airbases do anything yet? The AAA, IRSM, and Vehicle Depots can't seem to be captured/repaired when they're assigned to an airbase and the airbase itself gets captured.

Whether the building has the Capture Power, Capture Defense, or Allow Capture options enabled doesn't seem to change anything either.

[astral helm]

yeah, those buildings are unaffected
assigning buildings is mainly used with hangers/helipads, control tower and munition bunker basically all that somewhat affecting your spawn

[topaz flicker]

Ah, that's a shame.....

[keen hamlet]

It also allows factories to switch sides if the base gets captured. But factories do not get repaired

[alpine hull]

folks I lost my sense of direction again for the oil rig pipeline mission, would you people rather play as the offending or defensive side?

PALA will have hogshead(?) and a couple dozen offshore platforms for airbases.
BDF will only possess cliffline as a main base and a couple fleets for offensive.
the involvement of the DR is tbd

[topaz flicker]

Huh, didn’t know that. Still, really wish they’d repair upon capture. That would cut down on so much work

[astral helm]

imo, if not all then most of the buildings should be repairable
but for now we need to wait till then

[keen hamlet]

I think it's funny how when he started making the game Mitch envisioned very short matches. Now people are pushing for mechanics to make them last forever. It already takes 2 hours to Finish Ignus without repair.

[astral helm]

Weeeell, dev team itselfs said that more repairable buildings are incoming, so...
game length should be up to mission maker, if he wants longer games he should have a possibility to make so

[frank thicket]

this

id really like a toggle on buildings to make them able to be repaired on airbase capture or not

in missions ive made like primevan spring, factories not getting repaired upon capture is a profound pain in the ass to work around

[astral helm]

Spawning them after capture is no go ?
or its a PVP scenario where capturing is quite often ?

[frank thicket]

the latter

[maiden plover]

Hello can someone assist me in making a mission

[peak sequoia]

What are you trying to do

[maiden plover]

Im trying to get my waypoints to work when I fly through them but I keep going through with nothing happen

The next one doesnt show the last one is the only one still there

[peak sequoia]

Show the node setup

What starts it and what it leads into

Also the setting of the first reach waypoints node

[maiden plover]

hello?

[maiden plover]

I did

[peak sequoia]

Okay, it doesn't look like the outcome starts anything

Is it started from the mission start node

Oh I'm stupid it is

I assume the player in this mission is boscali

[maiden plover]

yes

[peak sequoia]

Maybe reach waypoints is broken with the in order mode

I have literally never had the need to use it so

[warm quiver]

I have waypoints in my mission but as two separate objectives with one activating the next

(So i can trigger events on each one instead of only the last)

Which would probably be impractical for you but just so you know i guess

[peak sequoia]

That's conventionally how I said mine up

If need be I'll link one to another

[maiden plover]

I tried with ocmplete all and it still does not say I went through each despite me doing so

would it help if I screen shared in a call>

?

[smoky anvil]

Unfortunately the same does still not work with vehicle spawn depots, they do not switch sides correctly with airbase association

also: I found the source of the lag from our flight on the de-tarantulator

it was that neutral ships with capturable airbase components spawn infinite neutral planes now

before you could use carriers as spawns by setting them to neutral and the airbase component to capturable and then just placing a truck of a side there.. but now they just blurt out neutral airplanes that don´t take off but also dont despawn and for which the AI side limitations don´t apply (because they are for sides and not neutral) until everything lags out

[hard zodiac]

Ants?

[smoky anvil]

spareparts yardsale

[near shard]

How can I make this marker in a mission?

[astral helm]

all objective that is "destroy unit" showing like that for their team if that objective is not hidden

[topaz flicker]

Anyone know if hidden objectives are hidden from the AI too? Like if I have a hidden "capture airbase" objective, will the AI attempt to capture the airbase or ignore it (presumably in favor of some other "visible" objective)?

[indigo valley]

Not hidden from the AI, only players

[topaz flicker]

Ah, darn. Plans foiled again. TY!

[frank anvil]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it, but I definitely wish we had mirrored versions of some structures, like the vehicle depot

[topaz flicker]

Don't think so, but it would definitely be a nice QoL feature

[near shard]

Anyone know why the box doesn't show up on mission start?

Everything else works fine but that

[peak sequoia]

they boxes work iffy at best

[rocky gorge]

try removing faction

[warm quiver]

Not sure what the cause is, but a workaround is giving it a 1 second delay before popping up

Mission start > waitseconds: 1 > message box

[steep dagger]

OR This mods crashing this message.
Or you are not install any aircraft with player prespawn and player on begining not part of faction for which message shows. Or just remove faction only

[astral helm]

Thats weird, it should work
I have it in my mission this way

[astral helm]

from my testing its not really affecting dialogue box

[topaz flicker]

Just found out that with the new update you cannot have capture airbase objectives faction set to "none" anymore and have the objective complete. So.....anyone know of a way to prevent the AI from pursuing an objective (leaving it for only the player to complete)? Cause without that workaround it goes back to attempting to scale mountains or otherwise going cross country to in an attempt to capture my off-the-beaten-trail airbases....

[astral helm]

I honestly doubt that its possible to do now
all AI sadly trying to complete any objectives that is for their faction

[astral helm]

Does someone have a clue, how you can track rescued pilots being delivered to any airbase ?
I want to make something like a side-objective where players could try and rescue pilots in the enemy territory

Problem is, you can track that pilots are picked up but what to do next, there is "Successful sortie" thing but it will apply for all players in team with is not optimal for me and I cant think of anything other than that

[dry bramble]

Since you can't order bombers to just unload their bombs over a target area without targets to drop them on, is there a good way to create a bunch of aim points for them that won't also clutter a player's UI? Trying to see how well I can carpet bomb a city

[warm quiver]

Make a hidden destroy units objective

That way markers wont show but the ai will still go after them

This is how I get darkreaches to do a massive cruise missile strike + bomb run attempt in one of my custom missions

[real pagoda]

if i uninstall nuclear option and re install it on a local disk c instead will that mess with my mission editor files?

[short meadow]

editor missions are in %localappdata%low/shockfront/nuclearoption

[real pagoda]

wich men's?

[modest cedar]

Hello, I'm currently learning to make bepinex mods for NO and I wanted to ask some questions regarding the architecture of the game. Is this an appropriate channel to ask such questions?

[astral helm]

imo not quite, this is mainly for ingame mission editor talks
maybe in #ask-for-help someone can answer your questions

[modest cedar]

Alright, thanks!

[keen hamlet]

The pilots are just instantly succesfully rescued without RTBing, so it's probably impossible to do it better than what you tried

[real pagoda]

so if i uninstall and re install the game the edited missions will still be there?

[vital eagle]

Teleportation technology by 2071

Thank you mann co. for gatekeeping it

[astral helm]

yeeah, figured that out a bit later too

[short meadow]

idk but if you are worried about your mission files you should take backups

[devout crane]

hey folks, just confirming, now that multi-select move and rotate are in place, is there a way to copy and paste the multi-part structure? it'd make my life so much easier right now lol

[frank thicket]

welcome to the mission editor

life is pain

good luck doing everything 1 by 1 buster

[cloud atlas]

what happed to the sound mod that added alerts like pixi to the game

[rocky gorge]

#1368288712294928574

[cloud atlas]

i tought it was deleted or sum

[vital eagle]

what is the technically difference between the ammo container and pallet?

is one temporary while another is functionally a ammo truck (infinite source until destroyed)

[peak sequoia]

Range

[toxic walrus]

No idea if I will ever finish the dustbowl super airstrip

[smoky anvil]

looks nice.. albeit it is sometimes easier to build ones own custom airstrips compared to modifying existing ones..

[stable dagger]

Might be stupid but is there a way to move the camera quickly

Shift+wasd is painfully slow

Nvm it's MMB on the map lol

[stable dagger]

How long does a unit have to be dead for before I can spawn in a replacement? I'm trying to make a repeatable training map.

[gusty goblet]

you cannot 'respawn' units by looping a spawn unit objective, but you can control when wrecks despawn by changing the wreck despawn delay setting

[stable dagger]

Unfortunate
So I have to make a loop of, say, two spawn objectives, and have it alternate between the pair?

[gusty goblet]

once an objective is completed it cannot be called again, so there is no way to make infinite spawns that way

[stable dagger]

.....very unfortunate

So my only option is either a bajillion spawns and chained objectives or a map restart?

[gusty goblet]

you could also have factories produce the units you want to have, and then have a road where they drive past the training area before encountering a trillion mbts

[stable dagger]

Ships

The friends I'm making this map for are struggling with sea-skimming/ASuW so I'm trying to make a map where they can hone their skills against a variety of task/strike groups

[gusty goblet]

sorry, that't not possible at the moment

[stable dagger]

's all right
The ten thousand Shards of the BDFN will rise against the tyranny of unrepeatable objectives

(I'll just duplicate the objective a bunch)

[warm quiver]

If there were pre-game lobbies it would at least make mission restarts with the same group extremely simple

[warm quiver]

But yeah having a sinking ship trigger a respawn on like, a 20 second delay would be fair

[safe trench]

how does one make landing crafts deploy units?

and preferably not go up mountains despite giving a "waypoint" on the beach

[astral helm]

its quite tricky to pull off
I would say almost impossible even

but if you want, they generally would try to land at nearest road node to the airbase they need to capture

[safe trench]

ty so far 3 at a time works fine on a designated spot any more, than 3 and the rest they start going way off course

[stable dagger]

Is there a way to delay an objective start? Like "Once this unit is destroyed, wait 30s and then activate this objective"?

[astral helm]

there is a "wait seconds" objective and you can chain them, like put "start objective" of such after destruction of a unit

[stable dagger]

How do I force ships to take a specific sea lane?

Better question
How do I make sea lanes that persist and loop

[astral helm]

iirc they are still bugged and not saved

[stable dagger]

Awesome

[safe trench]

is there a way to mass add units to an objective? or is it just atm painstakingly adding each one by one

[topaz flicker]

Nope. One by one only.

[dusk wadi]

Hey, I'm trying to use the mission editor to restrict certain aircraft in the Terminal Control map. I load the map, restrict the aircraft for both sides, edit the name then hit save. 5 minutes into the mission and I see the ai on both sides using the planes I tried to restrict. Am I doing something wrong, or is the editor bugged?

[frank thicket]

that does certainly sound like a bug

hm

did you delete the prespawned aircraft?

some of the missions (terminal control included) have aircraft already in the air when the mission starts, placed as premade units

units already in the air arent affected by restrictions

[dusk wadi]

I'll look through it again, but pretty sure there are no aircraft roaming around at the start anyway. I also originally checked what initial aircraft were available to each faction.

[frank thicket]

faction inventory is different from the pre placed units

[dusk wadi]

Also found the restrictions are only affecting me. I can't use the restricted craft, but the ai can lol

[dusk wadi]

Only pre placed craft are 4 Tarantulas, 2 for each side which I'm good with. Is there a way to determine what craft can spawn from each airfield/ship?

[frank thicket]

unfortunately no to my knowledge

[dusk wadi]

Thanks for your help. NO it's such a great game, but still early access. I'll just have to wait for an update or two before I can tinker more myself

[astral helm]

I guess if you only delete/change factory production output
so, there is no production for the airframe that is restricted

[astral helm]

My best guess that airframe restiction are mainly for players so they wont be able to buy it, while AI mainly spawns using faction inventory airframes

[dusk wadi]

Thanks. I'll look into that after work

[frank thicket]

that could actually be it, yeah

[dusk wadi]

You are brilliant! I didn't even think about factories being anything more than objects used as mission objectives to destroy. The fact they do just what it says on the tin... it just makes sense lol

[warm quiver]

I really need to update the thumbnail of my mission, so if people wanna take screenshots in it for me to use (with credit) that would be mega epic
https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1185479562092617738
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3274518792

[stable dagger]

Is it possible to make "empty" or "clean" enemy airframes spawn

[astral helm]

Without weapons or what ?
you can for example make a spawn unit outcome, but AI with no weapons would try to return to closest base, if there is no present they would just bail out

[stable dagger]

Maybe guns only then
I want to make a dogfight/gunnery practice scenario

But one where you aren't dodging Scythes the moment the other guy spawns

[real pagoda]

anyone know why only the link gets posted but the image dosen apear under the link?

[astral helm]

then you can just place them only with gun
it may also work if you restrict all weapons for the enemy faction and would place some factories for ai to spawn that way

[smoky anvil]

the beach in the bottom left of your picture works for the Ai.. put an airbase on the backroad and as capture objective.. and it should work.

[warm quiver]

Not sure, been noticing that a lot with steam links lately

[frank thicket]

for the 3 people who care next spring in boscali mission is in active development along with some other stuff that doesnt take place in that universe

[warm quiver]

Does that other stuff perhaps include mau makan apa things by any chance

[frank thicket]

yes

[warm quiver]

[frank thicket]

im desperately trying to make the ks bunker without it taking 3 days of manually placing things

[warm quiver]

Instead it will take 3 weeks of trying to automate it

[frank thicket]

it will take infinite time because the editor is so user unfriendly that i cant even attempt to automate it 🥀

[real pagoda]

how's it going with the stingray area your building from just cause 3?

@peak dirge

[peak dirge]

Finished, but I want to add more stuff to the map before releasing it

[real pagoda]

any ide of when it might be finished if you dont mind me asking?

[violet vine]

anyone know any good wave based defense missions on the workshop? I played one called "wave defense" and it was fun but I want to try some more

[peak dirge]

Idrk, I can't give a good projection for that, I want to add more things before thinking about release. I just don't know what I want to add right now.

[real pagoda]

ok looks wery good so far cant wait to play it when it releses

[toxic walrus]

I know that there will be an editor update, but OH MY GOD is it evil rn

Some of the parts/models don't have universally shared XYZ directions(?) The pipe bend is evil compared to the cylinders

[alpine hull]

Yeah the bends have slightly offset axis for some reason

I experienced the pain trying to align them with cylinders

now I understand

[toxic walrus]

I understand cylinders too now, made a little offshore launch complex (making really)

[sick olive]

Any clever way I could do a "runway attack" mission? As in, dropping lots of PAB125s along a runways and somehow having the game recognizing this

[gusty goblet]

upside down helipads as targets, distributed across the runway

they'll even appear as cratered or damaged when destroyed

[sick olive]

Hmmm, ill give this a shot

[sick olive]

It works with GPOs but not PABs, not really what I'm looking for. Think ill scrap this idea

[frank thicket]

on flat surfaces you can clip small platforms just barely underground

i did it for the nuclear strike detection system in breakthrough, the platforms are pretty weak and so can be destroyed by a lot of ordnance dropped on or near them

havent tried it with pabs but it might be something you could look at

[violet vine]

Is there a way to set up a pve mission so that only the npcs (and the players) have guns only?

[frank thicket]

theres a menu for restricting weapons

idk its somewhere along the top of the screen i think (havent used the new editor too much)

just restrict everything that isn't a gun for both factions

[short meadow]

am I misunderstanding how weapon restrictions work?
I set this in my custom mission for both factions and people are still able to equip Tuskos etc

ah I got it now

i was doing it wrong indeed

[short meadow]

ya its fixed

[drifting cliff]

Does anyone know how to have AI planes return to different runways to land? I find that they can clutter and even crash when a lot of planes converge onto one runway

Or do they by default just choose the closest one whenever they want to land?

[astral helm]

they generally do this
they can however chose another one if previous is occupied, but its quite inconsistent
Like, plane should be quite close to the runway, almost landed for the AI to decide to chose another runway

[drifting cliff]

That's really helpful. How about setting a carrier as an alternate place to land - is that doable?

[astral helm]

Hmm, didnt tried but I guess some AI would try to land on the carrier if its closer
if they cant land on it because its not suitable for their airframe they probably would try to land on airbase

[violet garnet]

hey guys, it's the second time the mission editor won't let me save my map (i click save and nothing happens). Anyone has any idea what could cause this?

it also won't let me play it

if i exit and reload the map in the editor it works but it's the second time in about 10 minutes so i'm kinda annoyed

[pliant gate]

do you have any special charactes in the mission name?

[violet garnet]

nope, but i seem to have found the reason

the editor really does not like me modifying the base objective

the default objective i mean, the one called "mission start" that does nothing

[pliant gate]

how did you modify it? i thought it couldnt even be modified, apart from extra outcomes/objectives

[violet garnet]

i changed its name, faction and added an outcome

i'll try leaving it alone

[pliant gate]

iirc thats the objective thats triggered automatically at the start of the mission, everything starts from it. best not touch it too much then 😅

[violet garnet]

ah i see, thanks

[pliant gate]

it probably shouldnt be able to be modified, ill report it

[mild hawk]

Has anyone tried making The Spirit of Motherwill

[woven magnet]

I've been tooling around with the mission editor and I for the life of me can't get the custom airbase I've constructed to keep the control tower assigned to it, nor will the control tower display ATC info for aircraft spawned from a medium hanger nor a hardened plane shelter, but it will display for planes spawned from revetements and helipads

very odd and I've yet to find the rhyme or reason for this behavior

[astral helm]

Could you show what in the building tab of that custom airbase ?
its quite weird because adding buildings there is trivial and should work anyway
Tho, what did you mean by "ATC info" ?

[woven magnet]

Runway info and airbase name display on hud

The tower displays correctly in the owned building list, but for the airbase settings itself the drop down for tower keeps unassigning the tower

spawning in Cricket vs spawning in Revoker

Cricket and anything else spawned in a Revetment or a Helipad gets the tower info, but anything spawned in the shelter (or a medium hanger but I don't plan on there being one here) doesn't in spite of the shelter being listed in the airbase's buildings and the tower being re-assigned in the Tower section every time I play test it

and yes, I'm saving the mission after assigning the tower

[astral helm]

hm, damn thats quite weird
tried to see if I got the same problem but my custom airbase with revetment, shelter and even medium hangars works as intended

[woven magnet]

I may end up scrapping the mission completely and starting over

I must have fouled something up as I was stumbling around figuring out how things work

is there also any way to jump the camera to specific spots on the editor map or am I just going to have to get used to the slow panning speed until I can get somewhere to put a unit down for a quick focus hop?

nvm, found it

middle mouse while moused over a spot on the map

[astral helm]

imo, its not that important to show this message, I think players would figure this out still

[woven magnet]

it's less of "will people understand that the highway is the runway" and more of it makes me happy to figure it out and get it to display properly

[indigo valley]

Middle mouse button to jump to a location by default

Oh wait, I see you found it

[woven magnet]

👍

while I have someone's attention, is there any way to force units to spawn inside of tunnels?

Ace Combat 4 has given me a brainworm that can only be satisfied by having a highway tunnel as an airbase and I'd like to have the service point be inside the tunnel

obviously I could just set it as such and have the munitions and fuel trucks outside because of the fairly generous radius, but I'd really like for them to be visibly inside the tunnel service station if possible

all previous attempts have resulted in units just popping up on the mountain above the tunnel instead of being inside it

[astral helm]

Currently you probably wont be able to right now
Early there was a mod "Editor plus" that let you activate noclip for units, but after the game was updated it no longer works sadly

[astral helm]

Well you did a pretty good job so far
I guess its a bug tho I didnt encounter something like this

[woven magnet]

remade the mission from the ground up and after checking that the tower was functioning with the revetments the game still doesn't recognize planes spawned from the hardened bunkers when spawning afterburner jets in the same session

no tower atc, no runway taxi info, no landing runway info

[astral helm]

weird

[woven magnet]

it's the ignus island map if that helps at all

[astral helm]

I saw it, want to try myself if it would be the same for me

[woven magnet]

it's also doing the thing where the airbase unassigns the tower on editor load again

[astral helm]

where, in specific tower tab ?
or in buildings ?
I just add tower to the airbase building list and its working fine that way

[woven magnet]

it's in the building list and seems to still be functioning

but from the airbase tab itself it shows nothing in the tower section

[astral helm]

Can you check if other airframes works too ?

I maybe have a guess why its not displaying

[woven magnet]

all airframes spawned from revetments and helipads function

no airframes spawned from bunkers and hangers function

could it be because I don't have a radar tower in the building list?

[astral helm]

for me, only Ifrit, Revoker and Darkreach has no notification

[astral helm]

nah, its probably because runway length is not enough for certain airframe

AI for example struggle to land in revoker at base with short runway

[woven magnet]

even though it absolutely is long enough

I wonder if marking them as arrestor strips would fix it

wait, no

[astral helm]

it can be picky
but otherwise I cant honestly explain why its that
because building are not the factor for it

[woven magnet]

that wouldn't help with the "short" takeoff run

maybe if the takeoffs are marked as ramps

[astral helm]

Other airframes besides the one I did say, were spawing from revetment, hanger and shelter, it was working as indended

[astral helm]

could you show me ?

[woven magnet]

marking takeoffs as ski ramps and landings as arrestors didn't seem to fix it

[astral helm]

because this one was enough for displaying

but that one is "short" for said airframes

[woven magnet]

ones close to the tunnels are for takeoff, ones further are for landing

[astral helm]

imo only problem that there could be is that AI would have strugle with takeoff
or wont do it

[astral helm]

hm, never tried to do runway like that
but yeah, game consider such runways for certain type of airframes quite short

altho you can freely land without a problem

[woven magnet]

even though at full afterburner the nose wheel lifts by itself well before the halfway point on the shortest runway

[woven magnet]

the "easy" solution would be to limit player choice to the vortex for afterburner equipped jets, but that feels like a copout imo

[astral helm]

Its mainly for AI, probably a good sigh that there wont be an info about where you need to taxi in X airframe if runway is too short

[astral helm]

well, is that base even for AI use or it wont be included in mission ?
because I wont worry that much about players

[woven magnet]

I might be able to cheese it by extending the takeoff roll beyond the limits of the highway since in theory the wheels should be off the ground before they run out of tarmac

from there we can address the landing run

that was the solution

I guess it ending in the sticks would only be a problem for the ai if I mark west 01 as both takeoff and landing and/or if I mark it as reversable forcing them to attempt landing on the "end" in the mountain

the other "problem" i'm having is that the a-19 really doesn't like to spawn under a camo net and just prop strikes on spawn

but that can be solved by just not allowing them there

the wings are too wide to clear the poles anyway

also not sure why the landing strip at east 02 is displaying as pencil thin

don't see any means of rotating it to align with the geometry of the road

[woven magnet]

regardless it works, so I guess good enough for now

[topaz locust]

if you tick "ramp" (or skiijump I cant remember what its called) on the runway settings it makes ATC/AI ignore runway length for takeoff because they're expecting to be launched into the air

[peak sequoia]

It's the only way to get aircraft to take off from a tunnel without crashing

[gusty goblet]

i believe the thickness of the HUD runway is dependent on the runway's width setting, in meters

[woven magnet]

I almost have it cranked to max width already

[frank thicket]

yeah ive noticed that the max width really isnt that wide

i dont even think editing it with text makes it wider

[astral helm]

never was able to make it work, runway would look like trapezoid for whatever reason and never properly displayed

[peak sequoia]

50m

It's pretty damn wide imo, one small platform wide but I see why you might want wider

[woven magnet]

is it possible to change the production type for a factory to produce faction specific ground vehicles on capture?

[woven magnet]

trying to string together a mission sort of in the vein of terminal control where the players slowly gain access to more and more infrastructure as they push out from one airfield and take over the rest of the map

not well versed enough in objective and outcome triggers in this game yet

[topaz locust]

there's no way to edit a unit's attributes at runtime (yet, maybe, we'll see)

you could fake this by spawning in new factories

[steep dagger]

Hm... IDK why, but i cannot update missions. Why it could happen?

[smoky musk]

My friends and I have been playing RNG's Primevan Campaign missions; we've only got one left. Any suggestions for similar stuff out there?

We've enjoyed the mix of mission types/pacing

[frank thicket]

@midnight mantle do i have to

listen if youre gonna do it at least make it clear that theyre longer missions with more content in each one but less missions overall

[peak sequoia]

Olive fox's spring in boscali

[peak sequoia]

Yes, be proud of yourself

You made good mission

[smoky musk]

Thanks! 😄

[sick olive]

How many ground units can the game handle without crashing mid-level PCs? I had an idea for a "Grey Goo" mission; a PvE mode where the enemy faction has factories and depots with ludicrously short build times, and every airport / city they capture, all the buildings are "liquidated" into more factories, until the entire planet has been converted in Linebackers and MSVs

[pliant gate]

Only one way to find out

Idea sounds sick

[steep dagger]

Depend what you finding. Skirmishes, missions(what mostly not big and pretty interesting), operations(bigger missions which close to skirmishes)

[shrewd vault]

Chaps who did the Naval Map... Now that the map's been filled out, we've got this lovely things. 😄

[warm quiver]

The factories predate their residences and they have the gall to complain about the noise...

[elfin galleon]

attempting to make this area more industrial feeling

[steep dagger]

Looks very good

[steep dagger]

In this moment me who knows how devs will end cities on Ignus. I just not care about it

[peak dirge]

Is that the one plot on the western tip of Ignus Major?

[elfin galleon]

yep

[elfin galleon]

fun fact you can use the harbor cranes to make a small bridge

[astral helm]

oh wow, I didnt noticed new props that were added

[alpine hull]

Does the amount of airbases in a mission take a toll on performance

like say I have 25 airbases per faction

[smoky anvil]

one of my versions of the same:

[smoky anvil]

not that noticeable, I would say..

[frigid badger]

Was just made aware of this forum, so I'm gonna ask again.

Has anyone made a moba style mode where you have a few "lanes" that you push up with ground units (creeps) to take different objectives and stuff? I think it would be a pretty neat little mode.

If not, I may start tinkering

[smoky anvil]

a "few" lanes are hard to do, because of the way objectives work (they apply globably..) a work around is to spawn pre-positioned units which can be given a single waypoint and which they will execute before following the currently global objective. Have fun!

[frigid badger]

Thanks for the tips, I was playing a match of altercation today, and noticed the ground units splitting off and driving though the city on the east. Gave me the idea. I'll see what I can whip up.

[foggy sparrow]

For the love of god, why ReachWaypoints range activates after you start moving away or in center and not upon entry

Is there a way to change this?

[astral helm]

there is probably just a little delay, tho never expirienced it myself

[foggy sparrow]

Nope. I wanted to make a 14 km trigger zone; unless i start flying away or pass within ~100 m of the center, it doesn't fire.
I just checked every type and requirement (ReachWaypoints/ReachUnits/In Order/Any/All), they all behave like this.
Workarounds to be found, sacrifices to be made...

[golden root]

Can AI not trigger "Reach Units" or "Reach Waypoint" objectives? I know the AI will try to but it doesnt seem to trigger.

[indigo valley]

They cannot complete them, but they will try

[golden root]

Thank you.

[supple violet]

i have a problem, primeva has a start mission thing but boscali doesnt, so i cant create objectives for boscali

[gusty goblet]

start mission should not have any faction assigned, the start objective trigger starts all linked objectives regardless of faction

[gusty goblet]

if you want an initial objective for a faction, create a new one and link it to the outcome

[gusty goblet]

mission start must have no faction or it will break

[supple violet]

thanks

[supple violet]

love the work you do btw, im actually using QOL in this mission, its game changing

[pale root]

Trying to make a defensive co-op mission around protecting an allied fleet as it moves around. I can st the waypoints in the vehicle tab but I cant seem to find a way to connect it to objectives or outcomes short of deleting the unit and immediately respawning it. am I missing something or is there not a dedicated way to link vehicle waypoints and objectives?

[astral helm]

Not quite sadly, you can try to however make it with "wait seconds"
so like, time it whenever fleet is reaching its waypoint and set timer for what

[pale root]

Was thinking about doing that. My only concern would be players moving it. Is there a way to disable players ability to control vehicles?

Also how realistic or difficult would it be to make a mod that adds new objectives and outcomes to do these types of things?

[astral helm]

you only thing is to pray that players wont do that sadly, would want myself a way to restrict that
and hm, good question about mod, im no expert but maybe its doable

[devout crane]

heartwarming: local mission editing moron decides that making a 3rd design for an offshore platform is significantly more important than making the... mission

thank you DrunkDrivingCompilation#42 your encouragement is appreciated

[pale root]

yeah, im starting to realize how bare bones the editor is.

[frank thicket]

CORRECT

MAKE IT STOP

[pale root]

make a mod so its no longer bare bones?

or kidnap the devs family and hold them hostage as encourgement?

[frank thicket]

people have, to the best of their ability

however im too deep into this now

i made the horrible mistake of trying to do the mission editor equivalent of what half life did for the gaming industry

9 fcking times*

bruh

formatting bad, there

automod is holding me hostage

i spent 9 months making a single mission

i hate existence

[pale root]

...is this my future?

[frank thicket]

PLAY THE HIT SPRING IN BOSCALI SERIES OF MISSIONS OUT NOW ON THE STEAM WORKSHOP FOR MORE INFO

IF I TOUCH ANYTHING IN THE LOGIC SYSTEMS FOR THESE THINGS THEY WILL INSTANTLY BREAK

[pale root]

so making an ace combat inspired series of missions designed to be played as a campaign is a...bad idea?

[frank thicket]

well about that

several people have done that

if you want to make a pve singleplayer mission, thats relatively easy

i did that in only a couple hours

the problem is when youre insane like me and try to make a multiplayer pvp campaign with multiple endings and actual game design features

thats where the 9 months comes in

spring in boscali is probably a lot different from what youre imagininng since each mission is designed to be played multiple times from each team to get the whole experience, if you want an example of an actual singleplayer campaign id recommend rng’s primevan campaign @pale root

[pale root]

its meant to be a multiplayer PvE campaign with branching paths based off of win/fail conditions as well as maybe optional side content.

[frank thicket]

branching paths

im so sorry for your loss

[pale root]

yeah...

it'd have to be a hosted, curated experience where the server owner loads the next map as needed

[frank thicket]

good news: thats literally the whole point of spring in boscali

bad news: it drove me to insanity in the process of getting that to work

it is 100% possible and ive done it enough to have a general idea of what needs to be done

its just exceedingly complex and paranormal

i only do this because one guy told me i couldnt over a year ago

i needed to prove that he was wrong and should feel bad

@pale root if you want i can send you some of the mission files for spring in boscali and give a detailed breakdown of how the logic system for the branching paths works

for you it will be marginally easier since its pve, but not by much

alternatively, you can import subscribed missions from the steam workshop into your user mission folder so that you can actually open them in the mission editor, but its a pain in the ass and i dont remember the exact steps

all i can really say right now (im on my phone) is that the “complete other objective” objective is the key to making logic systems work

im fairly certain you can make any logic gate you want using enough of those objectives

its just that an and gate already takes like 6 of them chained together

[pale root]

so is spring in boscali one instance of a map with multiple missions packed in then?

[frank thicket]

its set across multiple maps

each mission has a number of branching paths (except some but for the most part what i said still holds up)

each team had their own content and interactions with those paths

each one leads to a different ending

the most complex mission ive done is primevan spring, 6 different endings, 3 for each faction

the way i do it is you have a “default” ending but depending on what happens in the mission you can end up getting put onto a different path, sometimes without realizing it

as an example let me explain primevan spring

kind of spoilers for how that mission plays out but f*ck it only like 2 people ever played it lmao

by default, either pala or bdf can win conventionally, for bdf its by taking all of pala’s bases, and for pala its by taking the primevan parliament from the bdf

however, if a set of prerequisite conditions is met, that ending (referred to internally as win condition 1, or wincon1 for short) is cancelled, and at the same time a new ending is stealthily activated, known as wincon 2

from this point on, obtaining wincon 1 for the bdf becomes impossible, because if they take pala’s airbases, pala will set off a nuke at the feldspar stadium

this then makes wincon 2 visible to the players rather than just something operating under the hood, and now the goal for each faction is to capture every single airbase on the map

there is also a wincon 3 but its fairly similar and not too relevant for the discussion

each wincon can result in one of two different endings, depending on which team meets said win condition

[pale root]

seems intuitive if complex. There is no way of transfering logic from one instance to another. for example, your on heartland and PALA has a covered retreat objective. the main assest to cover is a carrier. If the carrier survives it will be at the start of the island map, and if it was sunk it wont be there. is that all correct?

[frank thicket]

oh, yeah theres no way to transfer the outcome of one mission to another

unless you feel like using hundreds upon hundreds of objectives to manually reset and remake a mission in the same session

but that is genuinely insane and i do not see that being practical, ever

[pale root]

yeah, probably easier to have it as two different missions with different start conditions and the host loads the correct one.

[frank thicket]

yeah

[pale root]

like a board game

[frank thicket]

spring in boscali handles it by just saying “f*ck you only one ending is canon”

thats why theres only 9 missions and not 90

so you can get non canon endings in each mission but those plots wont continue in future ones

it always assumes that the canon ending was met

for instance primevan spring is a prequel to what im calling the main trilogy, and the canon ending of primevan spring is that pala succeeds with wincon 1

every subsequent mission is based around that assumption

however that said, each ending does provide a very brief epilogue in the chat just to give people at least some idea of the consequences of their actions

i have an example actually, hang on

direct excerpt from the end of mission epilogue for bdf getting wincon 1

meanwhile heres a direct excerpt from the epilogue for pala getting wincon 1 instead

[pale root]

mmmm I see

I appreciate this, given me some ideas for my own setup

[frank thicket]

yw

again you can download any of the spring in boscali missions if you want to take a look at them under the hood

they should all have “[SiB]” in the name as a prefix

[pale root]

coolio

[devout crane]

8 hrs later and all i have is this

[steep dagger]

Wow. Several levels building! Looks good

[devout crane]

eh good enough

[frank thicket]

oh wow thats actually really good

[rustic spear]

fire

[warm quiver]

Can't wait until they allow for destruction of specific parts triggering collapse of other pieces

[frank thicket]

you already can lmao

destroy units objective for one of the support beams that either removes other pieces or spawns a munition that blows them up

[devout crane]

that's... good info to have

tbh i'm considering the destruction of them to be more of a diagetic thing? like the capture objective tells you that you can spawn on and use them, but each team gets 3 patches with [TBD] platforms in each (hence why i have made 3 designs thusfar and am soon to be working on a fourth), but by the time you see the enemy spawning on theirs, i don't wanna tell a player they have to destroy or capture it, that's up to them.

though if i can have hidden objectives that have 3/4 or 6/8 or 1/2 or [TBD]/[TBD] supports destroyed bringing the whole platform down, that'd be sick

[cursive trout]

maybe this feature already exists but seems like not; and not sure if there's a way to edit the json;

in editor, i want to create a mission with more limited ships; ie. disable the advanced weapons they have; is there a way to 1) disable certain weapon systems on ships? or 2) reduce the ammo count of those weapons to zero?

[gusty goblet]

the easiest way is to spawn a small munition on the system you want to disable, so it explodes and destroys the system at the beginning of the match

[cursive trout]

any particular trick to doing this? trying and not succeeding; which munition is best? put it on vector at short range? some more nuanced way of doing this?

[gusty goblet]

bombs have an arm time of 4 seconds and some other missiles have a tangible delay, so try using AGM-48s directly downwards with no velocity to destroy CIWS and other turret systems on ships

as for radar missiles, you should use a larger explosive like an AGM-68 or a pab-80

[devout crane]

hey folks, just trying to flesh out some naval assets for my custom mission, and i'm trying to take the faction divide pretty seriously. sadly, the BDF frigate is not in game yet, so i'm working with the assumption that the Dynamo and Hyperion are PALA assets, and the OTB, Shard, and Annex are BDF.

presently the matchup is 13 Dynamos with 2 hyperions (yes this is a very naval focused mission lmao) against 30 Shards escorting 3 Annexes, each annex capable of carrying 2 OTBs

i'm gonna run some tests to see an Annex vs Hyperion Duel, and Shard vs Dynamo to get a rough idea, but testing a full scale naval battle takes a little while, so if ppl who are better at this than me have any advice to keep things entertaining and relatively balanced, it'd be highly appreciated :3

[indigo valley]

You're going to have a rough time with that many Dynamos once they begin firing their AshMs. It will be quite bad for performance

Unfortunately, no amount of Shards are going to be able to threaten even a single Dynamo without getting silly, or in very tight quarters. There's just too wide of a gap in performance.

[devout crane]

so short of 3000 black shards of BDF i either gotta wait for the frigate or just take a hit on my faction seperation?

(also, with regards to the performance, the hope is that the relative clustering of ships (3 groups of 6 unburdened shards, 3 groups of 4 shards escording an Annex, 3 groups of 3 unburdened dynamos, 2 groups of 2 dynamos escorting a hyperion) means that there probably won't be a massive 13v30 clash, but a series of 3v6 clashes)

[devout crane]

sooooo i did some testing

the only engagement i could get the shards to win (thusfar) was a 14v1

with an extra radar station

i've yet to hack away at shards until the win condition goes away, but uhhhh

i don't think 182 shards vs 13 dynamos is gonna load too well

[keen hamlet]

Yes the Dynamo has unique capabilities which means it's irreplacable. 50km range R9 is just too good against air threats. Railgun which engages carriers at ?30km distance is great, because of the armor penetration of the railgun. It's just a matter of time before the carriers get seriously damaged. Then there's the AShM cruise missiles. They have infinite range and launch based on time (dependent on skill and number of targets that will be engaged in the salvo). So spreading the Dynamo's out in space does not matter [game performance wise] if they have the same skill. Datalink is omnipresent so probably many will fire at the same moment.

The Shard has no answer to any of these weapons. Although they will be able to defend against a lot of AShM. A shard only starts launching a sad trickle of AGM48 at 8 km distance.

https://nuclearoption.wiki.gg/wiki/Dynamo_Class_Destroyer#Armament

Even in thight quarters. The Dynamo can tank a lot of gunfire most of the time, and can probably defend against all AGM48's. But its railgun is devastating at close range

[devout crane]

great mitch down under give me a frigate to explode these foul PALA demons 🙏

[keen hamlet]

Frigate seems to be much more on par I think. Mitch said on stream today the 127mm cannon of the Frigate has a range of 40km. And those are guided shells. This means they could be intercepted, so we'll see if the Dynamo CIWS can intercept infinite of them or not. At least its stratolance will quickly run out defending against that. And the Frigate will spam AGM99 almost like the Dynamo spams AShM.

The Frigate has a mass of 4,500 ton vs the Dynamo 12,000 ton. Maybe it could really be 2 or 3 Frigates vs 1 Dynamo for a fair fight.

[real pagoda]

huh wait when did this get added in to the game?

[elfin galleon]

i think it was one of the patches

[real pagoda]

was more stuff added?

[alpine hull]

imprettysureitsjustharborcranes

[frank thicket]

@devout crane yeahhhhhhhhhhh

naval skirmish, a mission i made with a heavy naval focus, used only 2 dyanmos per team, and early versions of it would drop to below 15 fps for me once they started firing

the only solution is staggering their fire. ai skill affects how long it takes for a dynamo to lock onto targets and fire its ashms. specifically its a multiplier to a base time it takes for a dynamo to lock onto each additional target. so by having one dynamo at a high skill level, and one at a low skill level, you can have them stagger their fire which really helps performance

idk if youd be able to stagger 13 of them though

on the subject of that, naval skirmish only has 2 annexes, 1 hyperion, and 2 dynamos along with about a dozen shards per team, and it still takes nearly an hour for unprepared players to beat. i do not want to think about how long a mission with 13 dynamos would take, especially if theyre all spawned in at the same time

if you want my opinion, faction locking things completely is a waste of effort in the game’s current state, like seriously just don’t bother trying to go all out, its not worth the risk

you can give factions more of certain units, just dont completely lock them out of the other side’s stuff

theres a reason spring in boscali very rarely has faction specific shit

[peak sequoia]

you can actually

spawn them in at diffrent times with different skill levels

1-2 firing at once is okay, 3 and over and it becomes a problem

[devout crane]

revised, the draw scenario i got was an 8v1, gonna stress test my cpu with a 104x13 wish me luck :3

[devout crane]

so some very painful frames later, i had 60ish left after the fact and one trapped dynamo, gonna try 78v13 next

[mellow flint]

Any ideas why the r9s on my mission arent firing? They have fire control, and radars are plentiful, havent seen them fire once.

[rocky gorge]

do they have a radar truck? is the radar truck next to them?

+they will work regardless of having a fire control truck

[mellow flint]

some do, but do they need a rdr truck in proximity?

[rocky gorge]

yes

they will only work with a radar truck in proximity

[mellow flint]

I figure its the fire control being goofy tbh

[rocky gorge]

i don't know the exact radius

[mellow flint]

Some are like, this close and theres a radar tower behind them(off screen)

Ill probably just hide all the fire controls and a/b test that way, appreicate it 👍

[astral helm]

They need radar truck, radar station is sadly cant be linked to launchers

[mellow flint]

ahh, gotcha, thanks guys 🫡

[devout crane]

WIP harmony sands shipyards

there's 212 hand aligned parts in this image, and it took me almost all day lmao

[keen hamlet]

I hope you are using the ability to ctrl+c, ctrl+v a coordinate/ rotation value. Or type it in.

If you add the 3x3 containers it's nice to rotate them increments of 90 degrees around the x and z coordinate because then you randomize the colors. Gives 8 variations.

[devout crane]

I would have loved to, but the bay in harmony sands is at a 45 degree angle

No such positional copy paste luck for me

[manic minnow]

the things we do for NO

[devout crane]

hey folks, i roughed out a map of the major capture objectives for my custom map, and i had a question: what would the best way to organize the capture "Chain" starting at each corner? ideally i would like 3 objectives visible to each team at any given time, so any theoretical player isn't completely lost as to something they should be doing

afaik i can set objectives to turn visible after another objective has been completed, meaning any one of them at any point is capturable, but so far as chaining off of islands 1st or line of sight or whatever have you, what method of displaying the 4 in each diagonal half would make the most sense to yall?

some notes about the map: XL indicators next to the helibase marker indicate... an extra large base. usually 5 helipads, where the smaller ones have 1-3. the indicators leading with an asterix are the amount of bases in that rough area, forming a "Patch". each patch will be multiple airbases under one capture objective, rather than a single large base (subject to change if this idea turns out to be shit)

[astral helm]

Maybe something like that ?
A) for PALA
B) for BDF
if I did get you correct

[devout crane]

in hindsight i should have mentioned that the islands are also capture targets, but the stubs in both of these paths mean that the center island could form a connecting chain between the 2... thanks for the idea

[steep dagger]

You can make capture chain, top and bottom. And place some hidden objectives for full top and full bottom helibases to check if all chain captured for win conditions

[steep dagger]

You can also place them in chain(if need). You can make another one chain for main island, ans place full chain in hidden for future win conditions(aka if main island fully captured this objective will be successful and win conditions will see status of it)
Win conditions could create as... Second in objectices list(i forget how it naming properly " completele objectives " maybe)

[dense stone]

Does anyone know of any multiplayer death match missions? something where players can spawn and just immediately get into a fight kind of like mission 05 furball

[astral helm]

iirc there were some maps with air spawns, so you had hanger high up in the sky and you was spawning already on that heigh and with 70% speed
but pre spawned probably not

[astral helm]

Does somebody know a reliable/easier way to place units beyond height limit ?
for example somewhere at 20-40km up

[frank thicket]

either json editing or editing the position of a unit via the text field without using the graphical offset tool

idk its weird and i dont remember which method works but it is one of them

[astral helm]

I tried with json but got quite high offset
because I wanted to get on that altitude few objects

[frank thicket]

idk it definitely takes messing around

id try editing the position text in editor

i know you can clip things into the ground with it, i dont remember if it also lets you go above the height limit

[astral helm]

there is hard limit of 10km, you cant type bigger number there
and dragging unit further up would just slide him on that invisible limit

[frank thicket]

i think you just need to edit the json then

welcome to the editor: nothing works ever and life is pain

[astral helm]

I know 🥲

[keen hamlet]

The objects should keep the same formation if you just add the same number to them?

[astral helm]

I thought of the same too, but they where on different height and it was missed by a margin
I managed it now with some help from the side, so for now its good

[keen hamlet]

Weird

[frank thicket]

GOOD NEWS GUYS I FIGURED OUT HOW TO SIMULATE ENEMY UNITS BEING TRAUMATIZED BY THE HORRORS OF WARFARE IN A DYNAMIC MISSION

THIS IS A GAMEPLAY MECHANIC WITH REAL APPLICATIONS

i’ll explain later but anyways the next spring in boscali mission is going to be unhinged

essentially what this means (briefly) is:

enemy units can run away if they panic

different weapons are more psychologically scarring than others (nukes being among the most effective)

i can add unique dialogue for what shell shock does to people in my funny plane game mission, im sure people will have so much fun with that one

if you traumatize enemy units theyre going to be screaming into your enemy’s chat, which leads to the awesome moment of you having to deal with the consequences of failing to protect your allies and seeing them begging for help in the chat

the best part? this is encouraged by gameplay. if you come up against a heavily defended point you can just psychologically scar them and have them run away.

you are encouraged to be as cruel as possible for a gameplay advantage

this is what ive always wanted in sib

the current missions dont seem like it too much but it was always about the actual horrors of war and humanizing enemy combatants

good luck!

[topaz locust]

assuming these are capture locations, you can actually stick all of them under a single objective, and it will display a hard coded limit of the three closest to you

[devout crane]

WAIT WHAT

THATS A THING???

[elfin galleon]

building tip for you all
an inverted cooling tower can make a pretty good helipad

• cylinders and cones make good castles

[vital eagle]

SIRE, THE ENEMY HAS FIELDED THE METAL DRAGON

[elfin galleon]

Not to worry my subjects for the blacksmiths have made a special metal dragon slaying ballista!

carried upon these horseless carriages

[alpine hull]

is this the eagle nest used by john primeva

[indigo valley]

Amazing

[elfin galleon]

Thanks <3

[peak sequoia]

Still working on ship designs

Turns out that when you throw something in geosynchronous orbit it doesn't really need to look good, but I don't care

[manic minnow]

okay i need you to explain to me how you'd manage to do something like this?

Because that doesn't sound anywhere near possible with the mission editor as it is

Unless there was mission scripting support added at some point and I missed it?

[frank thicket]

right i forgot to explain

you can have a destroy units objective wired to several key objects, they can be whatever you want. important units in an area, or alternatively, a platform underground that can be used as a destruction sensor like i did in breakthrough. once you have that, you can wire each one to a waitseconds objective that can, if used right, measure how many of those key objects are destroyed in a given period. depending on how many, you can use an objective to either remove a given amount of the units present and respawn them in the same position but with new orders to run away with waypoints, or alternatively i (think) you can keep the same units and change their waypoints depending on objective statuses

havent done it in practice yet but it does theoretically work and i have done similar things in the past

this isnt much more unhinged than that

[manic minnow]

this, is...oh my god

[frank thicket]

THEY TOLD ME THAT THIS WOULD NEVER WORK

[manic minnow]

This is insanity, I don't even know how you initially figured this out

[frank thicket]

IVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 2 YEARS TO SPITE THAT ONE GUY

NOBODY PLAYS SPRING IN BOSCALI AND GETS TO SEE THIS INSANE SHIT I DO BUT ITS WORTH IT BECAUSE THAT ONE GUY IS WRONG

ONE MILLION LIVES

[manic minnow]

I wanna play your missions but they're almost all MP focused and I have no friends to play with ;w;

[frank thicket]

i really, really need to make it more clear that theyre designed to work just as well in singleplayer, huh

[manic minnow]

Oh

[frank thicket]

vanguard is the only one that needs multiplayer although you could just allow ai aircraft in the customize mission menu before launching it

[manic minnow]

That seems to be the default for most missions nowdays, a focus on like 4 or so players at least, co-op

[frank thicket]

so technically vanguard doesnt even need to be multiplayer lol

[manic minnow]

Would it work well? I'd assume the AI wouldn't be very cooperative at following the mission design, would it?

[frank thicket]

i use escalation as a basis for what i want my missions to look like, and thats playable basically any way you want

[frank thicket]

ehhh, it's iffy

they die a lot but thats just how NO ai is

i did playtesting in singleplayer in one afternoon and it seemed to work so idk

hey while were on the subject of my descent into madness, check out this preliminary schizophrenic diagram of the layout of the next spring in boscali mission

[frank thicket]

actually that said i might just get one of the goons to shove you in a black hawk and we can play sib at some point lmao

[frank thicket]

also to answer this, i took a shower a few days ago

[manic minnow]

omg hi yes I'd happily play together if you'll have me

[frank thicket]

i will speak with the goons about arranging a date for kidnapping

[manic minnow]

[frank thicket]

anyways before i go here is an excerpt from the spring in boscali dev channel on the day i found out i could do this

[topaz locust]

@frank thicket given what look like your attempts to essentially make the objectives turing complete, what are your thoughts on using scripts to run missions

[steep dagger]

BTW. I think good idea implement ability setting objectives which AI ignore. Just as info objectives.
This will be very useful because it will allow us place SAR zone and AI will just ignore it because it work not for them. And also it will be very cool for defense objective, when you will install target at friendly unit and AI will ignore it. Will be cool or even better if devs implement special objectives for it, i feel it will works better and not so buggy.

[dense yew]

İ cant make roads

What am i doing wrong

[steep dagger]

Placing road to intersection. After that press enter. This making roads understanding where intersection for normal pathfinding and avoiding unit stuck

[frank thicket]

that would probably be good if i actually knew how to use scripts lmao

[frank thicket]

this is also something i think would be really good

[dense yew]

For some reason custom sea lanes dont save and dont work

[frank thicket]

they havent for years sadly

[dense yew]

Damn

[steep dagger]

Bug
https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1355469905427693640

[dense yew]

ONE YEAR???

Wtf mitch

Come onn

[steep dagger]

Yes. Maybe hard to fix it...

[dense yew]

Something made cant be hard to to fix

[rocky gorge]

😭 😭

[halcyon solstice]

Any recommendations for low level coop missions for training/practice (teaching newer players) From what I’ve found, most custom coop mods here are designed to scale up the intensity for the increased player count.

Is simply free flying (with enemy modifiers active) or building a custom mission from scratch the better alternative?

[steep dagger]

Advanced tutorial pack
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3493333822

[halcyon solstice]

Coop compatible?

[steep dagger]

Several good missions for newbie coop available.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3572615744&searchtext=airborne
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3294953241&searchtext=operation
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3277609792&searchtext=operation
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3277609792&searchtext=operation

Oh... We lack of missions for newbie...

Also can highly recommend vanilla altercation - best variant for newbie coop! !!!

[halcyon solstice]

‘Newbie friendly’ is more or less a flexible term to be a step up from the singleplayer missions. My intent as a new player is to see if there’s something that could help get even newer players up to speed in a PvE environment?

Regardless, thank you for the recommendations for your work! I’m looking forward to trying them out!

[steep dagger]

This missions definitely newbie friendly.
If you wanna try to find some coop tutorial mission i know only one mission which pretty far close to this.
Just free flight to teach carrier take off and landing
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3272257465&searchtext=carrier+landing

[halcyon solstice]

Thanks again @steep dagger, coop with replay-ability is the primary intent, because even a harder mission would allow players to reevaluate their strategies in a controlled environment

[steep dagger]

I also finding this mission quite good for newbie and chill. Small amount of hostile aircrafts, small amount of AA, AA with not big skill. Dont worry about carrier take off and landing, you always can request or buy another one aircraft.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3597350880

[halcyon solstice]

Thanks again. Carrier landings are pretty easy after attempting to land a Tarantula on the Feildspar city tower helipad intact. Least to say vehicles and ejected pilots have a tendency to drive/run right off the helipad

[steep dagger]

Land tarantula on the feldspar city tower....

Who newbie here?😅

[halcyon solstice]

I was spoiled by practicing Vtol landings in VR. I’m not used to the automatic Vtol angle controls though, as I tend to rely on pitching and throttle for fine adjustments

[steep dagger]

HOTAS? Gamepad?

[halcyon solstice]

Just desktop for now. Going from VR to Desktop isn’t so bad, but the free-look controls requiring a button press to unlock panning (cockpit view only) is taking time to figure out.

[steep dagger]

You mean desktop is just mouse and keyboard. Right?

[halcyon solstice]

I use a controller for the moment. The joysticks are more familiar and the selection of buttons is more complex for immediate identification. I’d struggle with keyboard by clicking the wrong button.

[steep dagger]

Oh... Controller is good... Quite good for this. So for newbie it isnt big problem... But for newbie keyboard players its hardcore...

[halcyon solstice]

Make a mission where we have to insert an infantry team on the tower for an HVT mission!!!

[steep dagger]

HVT?

[halcyon solstice]

High value target

The ibis is super easy by comparison. Haven’t tried the custom mission editor but if it were possible to designate the landing area as an objective that would be awesome!

[steep dagger]

I can even place there whole helicopter spawn🥰.
If you need it of course 🙂

[halcyon solstice]

I’ll let you brainstorm on that, but a city mission thats dedicated for the ibis has a lot of potential, there are streets, rooftops, radar stations, ocean for close naval assets, the stadium, time of day, etc.

[steep dagger]

Continue.
I long time ago planned create logistic mission on ignus archipelago.
Continue...

[halcyon solstice]

If BDF is the playable faction:
PALA siezed the international airport, and have it hastily defended with mobile ground assets. A high value target in the city needs to be extracted, or the (building captured as an objective if possible). A BDF naval group is right off the coast as a show of force. Air and naval assets are present to cover the airspace.

The player is tasked with flying an ibis to the tower and landing on the helipad (made more cinematic if there is a light enemy unit or two that the gunners can automatically target). Once the objective is seized, the player must fly back to the destroyer/carrier, or to the nearby stadium to land. Ground vehicles can be unloaded in the stadium so that could be a second phase of the mission.

Not sure how in-depth the AI can be, but it would be awesome if a few stray enemy MRAPS or IFVs could be present on the streets, ensuring that the surrounding area is hot but not overly lethal, and they may be targeted by friendly air or ground assets.

I doubt it would be made as cinematic as tracer fire lighting up the sky everywhere without the player being targeted immediately, but conceptually it could be a great mission in a small area.

[steep dagger]

I will try to think how to make some cinematic moments. Anyway your ideas should be pretty useful for same mission 🙂

[halcyon solstice]

Now if you want to crank things up to 11, make the final objective an emergency dispatch of an incoming threat with a nuclear payload. That way the mission becomes time sensitive to evacuate the recaptured airport and/or city before it gets wiped off the map.

[warm quiver]

The two Tank Busters missions are good for low-intensity co-op

Even if the air defence gets quite tough

But its tough in the way that makes it hard to land hits, not tough that it keeps shooting you down (uneless you over extend)

RNG's Operation Primevian Shield - Intervention is also a good one, mostly slow paced counter-insurgency stuff with a couple twists
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3271890874

[frank thicket]

all i can offer on this front is [sib] vanguard but calling it “low intensity” is questionable

[halcyon solstice]

As long as there are avenues of attack/defense that newer players can whittle down, much like the default missions, then it qualifies.

[halcyon solstice]

Got a few more ideas for that mission @steep dagger

1.) The south of the island has a river valley that obscures feldspar international, thus the mission could begin with a northbound infiltration to reach the city limits safely.

2.) additional targets could be arranged on key rooftops, especially if the ibis is outfitted with heavy armaments. A second player or NPC in a Chicane could provide far more firepower

3.) A naval group to the north of the city could serve as a mission landing point, but the stadium itself could become an improvised FOB if the soccer field could be made into a designated refit point.

4.) Feldspar international itself could serve as a final base to assault and liberate, assuming NPCs can reliably destroy the heavier defenses at coordinated point in time.

5.) Should there be a reliable way to introduce a 250mt bomb drop once the final logi/support objective is completed, it would be cool as hell if the final minutes provided the opportunity to land back at the stadium or other points in the city to evac (rescue downed pilots?) whoever the player can before heading north to reach the carrier group in time to outrun the detonation range.

[halcyon solstice]

Again, I’m very new to the game so I have no idea what can or can’t be scripted in the mission editor.

[foggy sparrow]

The main limitation for what you described is inability to script units to do exact things, and limit their armament.
So a friendly Chicane will try to complete main objective unless it has custom waypoints, and a naval group will start wiping the map clear with their weapons.
It's a good scenario otherwise. I'm working on an Ibis logi mission around Feldspar, it's enjoyable to fly around there in a helo.

[halcyon solstice]

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like the best approach would be low level land assets for the player to contend with, followed by a few friendly air assets to deal with defeating the Feldspar defenses and mopping up remaining/approaching enemies mid-mission. The carrier group could be far enough away to be at the edge of its 15km range, but the real challenge would be timing the pre-determined approach of a bomber that can put a nuclear payload on an existing target in the city.

A few 20kt piledrivers would have the flight time for a short mission and be difficult to defeat, but the 120kt would be ideal with a yield high enough to warrant evacuating the entire the city.

[halcyon solstice]

I’ll be sure to do my due diligence once I have time to test out the mission editor and make my own attempt at the ibis logi mission.

[steep dagger]

Oh... You wanna coop... It make it slightly more complicated, but maybe i can make it good in coop

[halcyon solstice]

I think singleplayer is the best avenue given how basic the mission can be. I managed to test the behavior of assets on my own.

The southern river valley obscures feldspar international so well that more advanced radar/SAMs could be mounted in ideal locations, but they will have the range to harass anything that gets close to the helipad tower. Threading the needle like its own notch angle does work, but difficult under fire.

Hexhounds are ideal opponents on the tower itself, even HEX SAMs on low difficulty rarely score a hit at close range.

Ground MRAPs are also easy targets, but if they aren’t prioritized by the gunners they will mess up a hovering ibis fast. Even minor damage hinders thrust to weight rapidly.

Lastly, a 23mm AA position on the upper balcony obviously shreds anything at point-blank range

could make for a great threat ceiling to avoid, but its overkill, and the mental image of an AA team hauling all that ordinance up a skyscraper elevator is hilarious.

[steep dagger]

BTW i have two missions about logistic work. One of them quite short. But another have some part of logistic work. And also know another one logistics mission. I place it here if you wanna check what now already done in this side.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3643418212
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3572829929
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3573244679&searchtext=some+assembly

[halcyon solstice]

Thanks, I noticed you had a stream going the other day too. Would it be better to collaborate/Q&A over a call and screen share over the week/weekend? So far the assets element is pretty straightforward, but the objective system is obviously the learning curve.

[steep dagger]

I have some difficulties with english when trying to speak. But i sure very good idea make list of features, situations and logistical stuff for same logistical mission. I right now create... The most unique mission(again, yeah?). And i need end this mission at first, and after that begin logistical mission.
I planning create logistical mission quite big, with good amount of unique decorations, delivery zones, and maybe situations(still not think about scenery of mission)

[halcyon solstice]

Thank you for the time. Though I may be able to eventually build and playtest this mission idea myself once I learn the system; your experience and help is greatly appreciated!

[steep dagger]

You always can ask here about anything feature what you wanna have in game and i help you. (Of course game not allow us make anything, but allow make pretty much different things)

[oak oriole]

Does anyone have a mission with lots of custom messages for example naval reinforcements in 5 minutes etc?

[frank thicket]

jokes aside i need you to be more specific about what youre looking for

[oak oriole]

so you know in escelation when naval reinforcments arrive or are on their way or souther boscali is captured it says so in chat im looking for a mission with lots of these callouts

[jaunty cosmos]

can anyone here help me figure out how to mess around with the spawn timing thingy?

[steep dagger]

WDYM. Where?

[jaunty cosmos]

when you select a vehicle in the mission editor

[astral helm]

You need objective that would have outcome to spawn a unit

[jaunty cosmos]

ahhh,okay thank you so much

[halcyon solstice]

Its possible to look into the objectives list of the preset missions right? Because that would make learning its functions way easier to build similar outcomes (i.e. start/complete, visible waypoints, messages, capture/destroy, etc).

[astral helm]

yeah, all vanilla missions can be opened in editor

[halcyon solstice]

Awesome sauce, that should get me through the basics of the mission idea, though I’m always welcome to both new ideas (and critiques) to add to it!

[frank thicket]

spring in boscali, just any mission lmao

[warm quiver]

My custom mission has a bunch of custom messages as dialogue type stuff, but I don't recommend it unless you have a decent pc
https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1185479562092617738

[oak oriole]

im essentialy just testing if its possible to hook custom audio files to these messages so they can be read out instead of text etc aprreciate it ill take a look

[pliant gate]

I might have something for that in the archives, i can check in a few hours

[oak oriole]

appreciate it i thought it up while making the radio chatter portion of the mod

[jaunty cosmos]

i tried messing around with the spawn timing using seconds,but for some reason they wont spawn at the duration,can someone help me?

[halcyon solstice]

I’ve been wondering if that were possible. Even more so if custom soundtracks are possible on account of the base game having soundtracks for every aircraft take-off.

[oak oriole]

i actually already solved the soundtrack issue and yes very possible

[oak oriole]

#1465800205021478975 message

[keen hamlet]

Probably the objective didn't start.
The build in objective of mission start is meant to start some other objectives.

[jaunty cosmos]

ahh okay thanks it works now

[pliant gate]

ok found it, basically the mission messages were tagged with [audiofilename] actual message here it would remove the tag and play the file. the code is old and quite terrible, but it gets the idea across.

wait wrong forum lol

[oak oriole]

thanks i'll give it a look over i'm just finishing the GAS tutorial and getting it out then gonna look into this it could be huge fur custom maps etc

[oak oriole]

hahaha don't let RNG see this

[halcyon solstice]

Duuuude that’s awesome! I’d love to have that feature if it could be triggered after certain objectives are completed.

[oak oriole]

fingers crossed

[halcyon solstice]

I’m holding my expectations in check, but I’m impressed with the work you guys are doing here!

It’s already ambitious to try mission editing less than a week after buying Nuclear Option, but it’s too tempting to not pass up.

[frank thicket]

we lost another one

https://tenor.com/view/interestellar-cry-rage-stop-murph-gif-23964161

[halcyon solstice]

On the contrary, I'm having a 1.5kt blast making cool stuff. I only wish Discord didn't have file limits to show off testing gameplay, so screenshots will have to do:

[jaunty cosmos]

do someone know a way to make a spawned in missile select a target?,or does that not exist?

[pliant gate]

Nope, not possible currently

[jaunty cosmos]

ah,okay thank you

[halcyon solstice]

I tested a missile’s airspeed and went through all the trouble to calculate its possible trajectory, only to find out that it didn’t apply velocity at all.

So my best solution was simply put ordinance at a set height above a target, and use a trigger that starts a time delay before it spawns. A lot simpler than if I had to rely on enemy AI to try and follow through a scripted ordinance deployment (even if thats more realistic).

[jaunty cosmos]

since the piledriver goes up when it gets spawned so i guess i should use the alnd for the 20kt?

[steep dagger]

Wow. Nuke in the end 🙂
I like same mission. Continue 🙂
Which duration?

[foggy sparrow]

I started to mess with mission editor about a week into the game as well, good luck 🙂

[halcyon solstice]

Currently testing a 250kt GB with a 3-minute countdown. Though multiple 20kt may be a a more practical option.

[astral helm]

Dunno why or how, but somehow got this sick looking explosion in my mission editor

[halcyon solstice]

Is it possible to spectate in the editor or is this a fluke in the editing phase?

[astral helm]

in editing, idk why but I noticed that some effects of missile/munitions is saved when you would play that mission and go back into editor

[violet vine]

does anyone know of any good and very challenging large lobby pve missions that are NOT ultra lag fests that take 5 hours?

[topaz locust]

@frank thicket that missing feature that's been missing might not be missing in the future

[peak sequoia]

FINALLLY

THANK YOU SO MUCH

[oak oriole]

W squeegy

[peak sequoia]

<3

[topaz locust]

dont thank me it was pat

[oak oriole]

W pat lol

[peak sequoia]

well than thanks pat o7

[elfin galleon]

LETS GO

[elfin galleon]

HELL YEAH

[frank thicket]

ITS BEEN 20 YEARS

[elfin galleon]

just need OTBs to be fixed

[halcyon solstice]

Question regarding ground and sea vehicles. When you set a waypoint position it goes to the relative position the camera is stationed at?

Furthermore I assume they’re intended to follow existing roads and sea lanes unless custom ones are drawn?

[frank thicket]

correct

that said custom sea lanes currently dont work

like, they dont save their data

so theres no point in making them

custom roads do work however, that said the in game road networks are kind of sparse in some areas so for things like cities youll probably want to add your own to make sure the ai can use most of the roads instead of bunching up on one highway

[halcyon solstice]

We’re going to see how easy or difficult it is for a combined arms invasion is for the AI to pull off with existing city roads

[frank thicket]

as someone who has done this multiple times with hundreds of hours in the editor: dont

like, nothing is worth the risk

allow me to demonstrate

[halcyon solstice]

Feldspar in particular is extensive, in fact I only want convoys to make a break for the airport if possible

[frank thicket]

every single green line in these images is a road i had to add myself

if they dont have roads, theyll ram their face into buildings if they think its the shortest path

[halcyon solstice]

Why redraw the entire network? Wouldn’t simply drawing desired routes for certain units be suitable?

[frank thicket]

you can, but itll look really unnatural from the air when theres like 30 units on the same road

it works if youre not using that many though

[halcyon solstice]

I’d like to use more, but it would be more impressive to have the same amount of units distributed into separate convoys to reach a similar target, rather than a massive buildup.

We’re not trying to recreate the opening days of the 2022 Ukraine invasion now are we?

[rocky gorge]

🥹

[steep dagger]

Primeva Liberation operation? Not so much lags, but 5 hour mission.

Extermination, harder version of escalation, not so laggy

[steep dagger]

God thank you so much. It was really valuable for ignus to place sea lanes to possible landing zones for lcac. I sure now LCAC will have better pathfinding if players place additional sea lanes❤️

[steep dagger]

Very good. Especially on ignus! But be careful with this, some streets have buildings which not allow normally move trough them. Especially on west part of feldspar

[halcyon solstice]

Generally, how intensive are scenery assets when it comes to performance?

[frank thicket]

(basically) literally none

[steep dagger]

I personally not placed too much scenery assets, but i feels they cost very low. Maybe 5-20% from buildings performance

[frank thicket]

people have made mission with 5000 of them without noticeable performance cost

most performance issues are from aircraft

then ground vehicles

everything else is basically negligible

[steep dagger]

5000. Insane! Cool!

[pliant gate]

go nuts with scenery props

[halcyon solstice]

Aircraft will have to be limited, as the UH-1 IS NOT BUILT FOR THIS AIRSPACE SON!

[steep dagger]

@indigo valley
Place last message here as "must be fixed in next patch"
https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1355469905427693640

[astral helm]

well, its quite obviously, not like they are moving or doing anything
while planes for example impact performance very hugely, even neutral that do nothing

[steep dagger]

Yes...
Even neutral...
Quite sure have sense give ability make airplanes as scenery objects. Or just place their models into scenery without any physics...?

[halcyon solstice]

Got another question. I’m trying to find out how to assign a pair of tarantulas to capture an airbase. They are set to spawn once the capture airport objective is started.

[astral helm]

Would love them as scenery object, or at least togleable for airframes to be as "scenery"
so you still could place them for team or for neutral side, but they would be for example "unmanned" and wont have any physics besides destruction

[astral helm]

You could see how it was made in terminal control, there is some tarantulas that would try to drop off units

but its quite unreliable imo
if you would want to make it yourself you would need a lot of test, but maybe bots do try to capture a base when its neutral by dropping of units directly on it

[halcyon solstice]

Eh, they’re more for set pieces once the opposition is likely eliminated.

[steep dagger]

I quite sure much better recreation of ingame scenarios, because any IRL conflicts could feels not so good as you want.
I played in one and... This feels sad...

[steep dagger]

A lot? Minimum 5 times successful working runs to be sure is it work stable. And a lot tiny corrections for balance

[halcyon solstice]

Oddly enough there seems to be no indicators for both the unit and objective on any mission featuring Tarantulas, thus the approach would be for them to act on their own programing and see what happens.

[astral helm]

Yeah, they do kinda work good, on their own, its important for them to have capture objective set up and you then could try and experiment in your test mission for example how tarantula would behave
they usually when they see enemy or there is enemy nearby, would try to land anywhere outside of their engagement range and drop off a unit

[violet vine]

Ty!

[dusty pelican]

WIP

gotta finish the front, make the objectives + PALA forces

[halcyon solstice]

Perfect size for shutting down the entire airspace over the Suez Canal.

Update… it’s the perfect size to shut down shipping by blocking the Suez Canal.

[peak dirge]

Mmmmmm

a c o u s t i c s

[halcyon solstice]

@dusty pelican Instead of merely switching audio, is it possible to add custom audio with the code/plugin/mods necessary to add them as a mission editor tool? That would allow creators to place whatever they wanted to trigger at specific points in a mission, including custom radio chatter to sync with display messages.

[oak oriole]

hey so i actually made the audio mod and am working on custom sound support for missions in its current form it uses the server messages like reinforcments in route or south bosacali captured the mod reads that and plays an audio file with a specific name its very early in development thow

it does show promise thow the only issue is i cant think of a way to post missions on the workshop with audio files so youd have to download the mission and an audio pack seperatley

[halcyon solstice]

Thats not too bad if the description can mention that a specific mission ideally requires an audio package

[oak oriole]

Ye you could add either a link to the discord thread for the mission with the pack or a gofioe etc

[halcyon solstice]

Sooooo…. HOW many aircraft units is too many?

Currently 28, spawned in waves in a small operational area.

[oak oriole]

add a 0 to that I LOVE PLAYING SLIDESHOWS

jk whats the mission or is it secret for now?

[halcyon solstice]

Ibis, supporting an escalating invasion of Feldspar International.

Heavily lopsided in the player’s favor in terms of air support. Given that most of the enemy aircraft are spawning at the airfield.

There are plenty of ground convoys on both sides.

[oak oriole]

ah very cool im making a vietnam inspired helicopter beach assault using the new audio mod tryna re create the scene from apocalypse now lol

[halcyon solstice]

I’m not familiar with how the AI works in practice, so I disabled enemy funds under the assumption that their airbase would only spawn the units I deploy in waves.

[oak oriole]

check for airframes ai dont actually use money they use airframes stored from factories no inventory = no spawn

or airframes in reserve sorry not inventory lol

[halcyon solstice]

Thats right inventory on the enemy’s side. Though I have the Ibis in reserve for the player.

[oak oriole]

you can force the player to spawn in a pre configed ibis unless you want them to make their own loadout but yeah ai economy is based off factories not sure if they will ever use the money system tbf

[halcyon solstice]

I have some factories present as targets, but they're set to zero. Player's starting ibis is needed be able to be launched from a Corvette.

Counting ALL aircraft, ships, vehicles, and emplacements: 167. With 28 aircraft, 12 ships, and the vast majority are ground vehicles, SAM sites, and emplacements.

NO IDEA how well it's going to work.

[oak oriole]

shouldn't be too bad tbf and as they are knocked out performance should improve

[halcyon solstice]

Oh ya only convoys and SAMs would pose the most issues, if its too much in terms of difficulty then their numbers can be reduced substantially.

[jaunty cosmos]

do the dynamo launch it's ashm's completely randomly or if there's like a certain behavior?

[alpine hull]

I think they will start shooting around the 7 minute mark

but recent patches changed something(?), now they kinda fire at will or rarely fire at all.

[violet vine]

are there any "RTS" missions where the goal is to sit on the map and just control the units to win?

[dusty pelican]

All made by @oak oriole i did not make anything (except a soundpack) for this mod

[steep dagger]

It have certain behaviour salvo and missile prepare time depend from skill

[oak oriole]

ai skill level greatly affects firing time and salvo amount from what i have seen

[distant echo]

Is this really fun?

[astral helm]

yes, it will be

[violet vine]

Wait you can change the ai difficulty?

[rocky gorge]

in the editor, yes

not available for aircraft

and you'd still need to do it for every individual unit

and vehicle depot spawned units aren't affected

[violet vine]

Oh so some workshop missions might have the ai cranked up and I wouldn't know it?

[astral helm]

You can technically change it for pre-placed ones by editing mission .json file

[astral helm]

probably yes

[violet vine]

That is cool!

I need to learn how to make the workshop missions

But I don't even know where to start

[rocky gorge]

modify existing missions

go in escalation and stat messing with shi

[astral helm]

Its not that hard
you can just try editing some vanilla missions

[rocky gorge]

it's how i started

[astral helm]

yeah

[violet vine]

Ok will try that!

[rocky gorge]

mission editor is honestly really easy

but it's tedious

however, consider https://discord.com/channels/909034158205059082/1476939487228465354

[violet vine]

Is it like a separate launch from steam? When I customize mission I just see that gray ui with like twenty buttons and nothing else

[violet vine]

Oh wow

[rocky gorge]

yeah that's the one

[halcyon solstice]

Its easy, barely had the game for a week and its pretty straightforward

Be sure to name different units/groups of aircraft, vehicles,etc. so its easy to identify what you want to work on. You can set their difficulty, when they spawn in objectives, but only land/sea units can be given designated waypoints (also can be assigned to objectives to determine when they move).

[violet vine]

That is hopeful!

[violet vine]

Wait so mission editor is accessed through that customize mission portal? Or did you mean the separate launch thing.

[rocky gorge]

should just say mission editor

[astral helm]

from the main menu you can open it yeah

and there its quite simple

[violet vine]

How have I never noticed that massive button lmao

I was looking at the "customize mission" thing

I might be dumb

[halcyon solstice]

@violet vine it will take a bit of time learning how things work. But your primary tools are going to be the [ + ] button to add any asset, and the [ Objectives ] button to create a list to make anything scripted happen with those assets.

A huge resource is to play a tutorial mission, then load it with the mission editor to see how they made units do certain things.

Aircraft fly themselves and are fully autonomous. The only thing you can control is where they start, what weapons they have, and when they’ll spawn (ONLY if you set a specific spawn function IN the Objectives list).

Settings > Factions is more about controlling what the player can purchase to fly, and what units a faction will deploy on its own. I currently don’t know how that system works, so I’m placing every unit manually for the most control.

[violet vine]

im learning! im in furball rn and I added some spaags and they absolutely smacked the enemy planes haha i didnt even need to do anything

how do I change the starting plane in furball? Like what if I want to force the player to start in a cricket instead

[astral helm]

You should place airframe that you want and then press that checkbox on the bottom
and then you could find that starting airframe and turn off that checkbox for it or delete whole airframe all together

that will work for any airframe that is preplaced, if you for example want players respawn you need to togle that in settings and also have suitable base for players to use
not to mention that there should be either money for a player to buy them or some airframes in reserve for them to pick

[steep dagger]

Neutral as hostile?
I NEED IT!
WE NEED IT!
TO VANILLA!

Will be perfectly if you have quite good settings for it.
Who hostile for who. Who neutral for who. Who friendly for who(maybe not need)

[kind garden]

im trying to do a bomber escort mission and the darkreaches consitantly bomb their targets but their escorting crickets and intercepting crickets keep ejecting for some reason

ive given them objectives ive given them orders

but they still keep ejecting

🙏

[astral helm]

they dont see each other right away right ?

[kind garden]

wdym

😭

[astral helm]

AI aircraft tend to eject when they dont have a base to land and they usually land when dont have any targets to engage
soo, they probably didnt see enemy aircraft and just eject
if you dont want to use radars or anything, you can try to setup waypoints for them

"Reach Waypoint" could work, but only player can trigger them
you can time it to stop that objective somewhere around when aircrafts would meet each other

[kind garden]

mm, ill probably just spawn radar units, thanks!

so i got the intercepting crickets to not eject

but the escoring crickets are deadset on dying even though ive given both teams places to land

[halcyon solstice]

Flat column plates combined with flat plates make excellent low-poly parking garages. I'm certain concrete barriers could at least decorate the rooftop.

[oak oriole]

some 23mm emplacements and maybe even a helipad would look really cool up there

[warm quiver]

This is why we need moundless emplacements, because the base is just gonna stick through the bottom of the platforms

[oak oriole]

like this?

[warm quiver]

Yeah

[oak oriole]

it would be an incredibley easy mod tbf i might make a little mod for some things ive had a lot of building requests

[jaunty cosmos]

i think i spawned in one too many aas

[sick olive]

Kind of hacky "sea mine" idea.

1. munition pallets act as mines
2. held down by piece of scenery
3. if a ship "captures" the mine by going over it, a bomb spawns next to it and sets it off
4. if you destroy the pallet with a GPO, there the "airbase" trigger is deleted

[jaunty cosmos]

this is so genius,thanks i would be using this in my personal missions

[sick olive]

hmmm, base capture only seems to work if the ships stop moving. maybe this wont work

[jaunty cosmos]

maybe use like navy containers and if it gets destroyed it spawns a gpo

[steep dagger]

Hm... Are you checked? Is it work good enough for ships?

[violet vine]

Thank you!

I've mostly been doing silly stuff like spawning in piles of boats and watching them fight lmao

But I'm going to try to learn more this week

Random question: is there a way to mod the mission more heavily such as multiplying ammo capacity or something? For example can I make a mission where the player only has their guns as their weapon, but they've got 10x the standard ammo capacity without a weight penalty?

[jaunty cosmos]

The only thing that i think is possible is like putting piledrivers on a cricket

Like putting any munition on any plane,as long as the plane can handle the weight

[violet vine]

dang! do u think that as mods come out, mission editing will become more flexible and let us do whackier stuff to give players workshop content?

[jaunty cosmos]

Well probably,since the modding community has been pretty amazing lately,i wouldnt be suprised if someone made a star destroyer

[violet vine]

On an unrelated note, my friend and I are looking for a challenging, engaging PVE co-op mission designed for 2 players. I am a bit bored with the stock missions that seem to always be "easy wins." We enjoy trying missions where we lose the first five attempts until we finally figure it out and win. Sadly most missions I pick up from the workshop are massive bloated lag battles, and if we lose, we lose due to darkreaches spamming missiles from across the map. Does anyone know of any missions like what I described that are tight, clean, and intense?

Ideally no darkreaches (so no large hangars) and no nukes. Just good ol fighters with bombs and missiles.

Oh I just found these little missions! Looks promising

[frank thicket]

these also work really well for making under construction buildings

i learned the trick from @peak sequoia

[peak sequoia]

Use the 50m pillars for corners too

Stick up and are thicker

[steep dagger]

Try Primeva liberation operation.
Try extermination.
Try dust shield
try boscali bats
try shores of fire

[steep dagger]

Try this.
They are pretty hard.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3491424858
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3385585169
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3572141881
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3549493273
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3549956504
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3503571423

[violet vine]

ty! will take a look

[steep dagger]

I hope they are will be not so hard, but will be quite interesting❤️

[violet vine]

We did Extermination already and it felt like a big bloated mission tbh

[steep dagger]

For newbie maybe...
But not for quite skilled players. But this missions said my brain - WORK OR DIE. Think how to reach target or die!

[violet vine]

No like we won easily but it took FOREVER

[steep dagger]

Extermination - escalation but harder, and with several custom objectives. Not for all.
But this is not dark souls difficult like in primeva liberation operation 🙂

[jaunty cosmos]

Well i guess you can try the op rising tsunami if i remember the name correctly.

[jaunty cosmos]

Or just any mission that rng made

[sick olive]

I made a custom mission, saved it, the json files are in the user folder, but they dont actually appear on the mission list in-game. What the hell?

[halcyon solstice]

They aren’t in the ‘user’ tab on the lefthand side?

Custom missions both workshop and user are saved separately from the tutorials and standard missions.

[sick olive]

Nope

[sick olive]

fixed

[halcyon solstice]

What was the issue? In case such a fate befalls us?

[sick olive]

"Whale Hunting .json" was renamed "Whale Hunting.json" and now it appears lol
it was just an extra space the game didnt like

[jaunty cosmos]

thats the same problem i had yesterday

[peak dirge]

Purple needs a 2nd med/large base to be balanced. Maybe up in that blank area a custom one could be built.

[sick olive]

Has anyone tried making AI "wingman" work by setting yourself as the waypoint?

[sick olive]

huh, this is kinda working
fighters just afterburn all the time it seems

[steep dagger]

But Rng missions not hard, he finding hard...