General Thread

[full cloak]

but I'm not sure what to put as the defense

don't want to end up with just objective C from foxtrot pass again

the spider tank boss idea seems promising

[terse orchid]

Give me some nukes and a Revoker, I'll get it done easy peasy 😆

[full cloak]

see what I mean

even I've done it before without weakening the AA

[terse orchid]

@full cloak to be fair all can be done if one studies the map and can pick out certain weaknesses in the air defense

[full cloak]

yeah I mean I leave weaknesses intentionally because my goal is never really to make an impossible enemy

[indigo valley]

Anyone know how exactly waypoints for ground units function? Does the ground unit need to be told to "hold position" for them to acknowledge waypoints?

[full cloak]

iirc waypoints set in the mission editor make it so that ground units ignore existing roads and objectives and they will straight up just beeline for their given waypoint ignoring terrain

and only when they arrive will they start doing normal AI pathfinding

[warm quiver]

They will take roads and stuff to reach the custom waypoint if it's convenient but yeah that's otherwise on point

I set up a custom winding (off)road path in my mission so that a convoy wouldn't get stuck on the terrain on their way to an airfield

[indigo valley]

On another completely separate note, I would like to make a complaint...

[full cloak]

[indigo valley]

One of you shards t-boned me while I was cruising at 15000m, and he didn't leave his insurance info...

[full cloak]

If you have video or image proof of this incident, maybe I can get the license plate

[indigo valley]

We'll considering I was vaporized... I do not think the footage survived 😦

[warm quiver]

Should've had an otterbox case for your dashcam hard drive...

[full cloak]

Yeah sorry we don't take claims without photo evidence anymore after the Desert Compass incident

[terse orchid]

Complaints? Oooooo do tell

[full cloak]

additional inquiries go to [email protected]

[topaz locust]

Waypoints set the unit's destination to the waypoint when the selected objective starts. Hold position will make the unit ignore objectives setting its destination automatically.

[indigo valley]

So, if I want to have a unit spawn in, drive to a location, and then hold position... I would have it spawn, then set a waypoint, while having "hold position" checked?

[full cloak]

that seems right

[hardy linden]

dont need to have it hold position when using ingame waypoints, but have to when editor waypoints

[final pulsar]

Is there an option to enable nukes after a certain objective is completed?

[indigo valley]

Not currently

[final pulsar]

Ah

[indigo valley]

Soon™

[patent fern]

@elfin comet is there a particular part you don't get or a particular scenario you have that could help with explaining

[elfin comet]

How to add objectives and such

also waypoints

[patent fern]

you mean unit waypoints or objective waypoints

[elfin comet]

uhm, like player waypoints... i think that's the only way to have active messages in the mission right?

[patent fern]

wdym active messages

[elfin comet]

example

[patent fern]

nah

that's the ShowMessage outcome objective

[elfin comet]

ohh

i saw that lol

i just have no idea how to make them work lol

i have big ideas

i just can't carry out lol

[patent fern]

well creating an objective is a singular button press

then that objective has an outcomes tab

it can start a new objective, spawn a list of units, show a message in the chat box, end the game, and more

[elfin comet]

okay, im following...

[patent fern]

so if you want a message to show

add an outcome, pick ShowMessage type, and just fill in the fields accordingly

then that message will show when the objective is completed

[elfin comet]

Thanks man!

this helps out alot lol

[patent fern]

sometimes it just takes a little push in the right direction

[elfin comet]

I got it!

Woooo!

[final pulsar]

I'm having troubles getting units to spawn after an objective is completed

May I ask for some help?

[dreamy peak]

ground units try to spawn at the vehicle depot closest to the objective

[final pulsar]

No, I'm talking spawning I a unit upon an objectives completion, not by depot

Like spawning in another fighter once the first is killed

[full cloak]

can you screenshot your mission objective setup

[full cloak]

it should just be Outcome -> SpawnUnit -> {List of units you want to spawn in}

[final pulsar]

That isn't working

It isn't spawning the select fighter

I may have to put a delay in due to the special circumstances

[full cloak]

oh is this the player-controlled one

[final pulsar]

Yeah

[full cloak]

yeah

[final pulsar]

Last time I tried it though was in the playtest era

So it may not work now

[full cloak]

hm

I'd have to see what your entire setup is to help troubleshoot

I presume you have one plane set to be player controlled, and a mission objective to kill that plane, which upon completion spawns another player-controlled plane?

[final pulsar]

Yeah

Pretty much

Ima try an 8 second delay first

Nope, doesn't work

It may be patched

Also

Additional data link bug spotted

[rain escarp]

I have a question: made a modified free flight mission with restrictions. How do i play test it and upload to steam?

i have it saved in the files but cant see it in the game

[full cloak]

It should just show up in the singleplayer and multiplayer mission lists

[rain escarp]

yeah, i figured it out. first time doing this so wasn't sure what to do to see it

[indigo valley]

@full cloak Do you happen to know if you assign several aircraft as "player" will a new player joining the mission spawn into that aircraft, or can that be done.

I imagine I would need to set different priorities for each?

Because I know if you set them and leave them at is, you control all of them at the same time

[full cloak]

I haven't played around too too much with it myself but my understanding is that yes that would be the intended effect

[indigo valley]

I'll have to mess around with it tomorrow

[hardy linden]

that is not the case anymore

you only control 1

[indigo valley]

I need ideas, so far, making a mission where the BDF has been completely pushed off of the islands and is launching an attack. So far, I have this plan. I want to make it an entire Escalation style mission but I am having trouble thinking about objectives after this initial plan is completed.

So far for ideas I have: Recapture BDF factories, Rescue BDF POWs, kill PALA president as he escapes the city in a convoy, destroy PALA metallic hydrogen refineries, Liberate Boscali City...

[full cloak]

depending on how well defended each obj is, you may want to consider splitting it into multiple missions

Your mission objectives themselves seem fine enough, I'd replace killing a president with killing a top general because assassinating government officials is generally considered a bad idea (takes peace talks off the table)

or you can pull an Ace Combat and have the entire PALA senior military leadership attempt to flee in Chicanes

I would also consider having the landing result in a split push with one convoy going to SBGA and the other going to North Boscali, since imo SBGA feels like a bit of a downgrade or sidegrade after unlocking Naval

I do feel that taking SBGA is mandatory otherwise you're leaving a flank open

[indigo valley]

I literally thought about a mass Chicane exodus lmao

[full cloak]

lol

you could have a "Destroy Bridge" objective where, upon blowing up a neutral munitions truck on the bridge, a bunch of pillboxes spawn on the bridge to physically block off further attacks from the south

that would allow you to focus on putting the rest of your objs north

[dreamy peak]

when killable bridges mitch?

[full cloak]

we'll just have to make do

[dreamy peak]

your idea is good though

but i would probably use hardened shelters

[full cloak]

broken pillboxes get this large clump of dirt when they break

fits the rubble aesthetic better imo

[dreamy peak]

good point

maybe the revetments could work too

[full cloak]

Revetments just fall iirc

no good

[dreamy peak]

no

they have a destruction model now

just how well that would work is the question

[full cloak]

oh wait yeah you're right

[dreamy peak]

helipads too

[full cloak]

ehh it tends to sink a bit

[dreamy peak]

could emulate a broken road pretty well

[full cloak]

just a mix of all three and make random bullshit

one thing to note though is that if you do that don't put any vehicle depots that would path in from the south

[dreamy peak]

the more i look at it the less it looks like a face

[full cloak]

otherwise all the enemy units might just build up on the bridge

[dreamy peak]

but then whats the point, really

[full cloak]

lag mitigation

[dreamy peak]

no i mean of killing the bridge

[indigo valley]

Need a canon reason to go north, other than just to recapture old BDF produciton facilities

[full cloak]

okay make it so that when you kill the bridge the enemy's main objective moves northwards so that ground units go the other way

[full cloak]

Northwards is where Boscali's home base is?

[dreamy peak]

capture the large airfield for later bombing runs originating from there

[full cloak]

technically you already have Darkreaches when you take Naval

[dreamy peak]

well true

[indigo valley]

Kind of, this is a continueation of Total Escalation, as BDF that takes place a couple of months after the mission.

You start on a "carrier" and need to help shards get close to the island base in order to drop off units to retake it. Then you need to escort shards to the mainland for them to land units again.

[full cloak]

but I mean if the whole plot is that Boscali got pushed off their territory then surely priority number 1 is taking their own stuff back before they focus on taking on enemy land

[indigo valley]

Basically you (the BDF) start with no bases at all

Yeah

[full cloak]

and northwards is home territory

[dreamy peak]

but when i look at it from a strategic pov naval kind of ceases to exist in my head

[indigo valley]

I chose to land on Naval because it made the most sense in my head for where you would want to establish a base if you were attacking Boscali

Since it is isolated

[dreamy peak]

and the isolation brings lots of security with it

[full cloak]

you're correct but it kinda messes with progression because Naval already unlocks all the nice things for the player so further unlocks are just more NPCs and factories

[indigo valley]

Then SBG is where the initial counterattack comes, so it makes sense to neutralize it, then I want them to move north to capture BDF factories to get access to more ground units, in order to liberate city base and then actually the city itself. Once North Boscali is captured, the entire rest of the map would spawn in.

[full cloak]

ah

Honestly I'd just end the mission after taking NB because it'll be a pain to wait for ground units to move around

and then make a sequel mission for the next part of the offensive

[indigo valley]

Yeah, that's definitely a pain

I was thinking about just making it normal escalation, with several secondary objectives after you cap NB

But I don't want it to be that just for the sake of it

[full cloak]

you'd already have a ton of points and unlocks at that point it'd really just end up being a "nuke everything" victory lap

[indigo valley]

One thing, which has kind of gotten lost is making a BDF version of Total Escalation, which people have wanted, but it's not really feasable as is.

So, maybe this just needs to be Total Domination IDK

and not a sequel

hmm

[full cloak]

just call it something new

[indigo valley]

Because right now it's basically just Breakout with extra steps...

[full cloak]

depends on how you do the landing operation part of it

lots of potential there

[indigo valley]

I like doing landings, they're fun, but you basically need to script everything with timers.

Basically, shards spawn, helicopters takeoff from shards, shards drive to shore

then ground units spawn

(all while taking and giving fire obvy)

[full cloak]

not really just add some shore batteries that you need to blow up before a "landing ship" (Vehicle Depot) can spawn on the beach

[indigo valley]

I like the idea of watching a shard pull right up to shore and then units spawning right beside of it though 🙂

[full cloak]

still works, shore batteries can be a significant threat to shards

it only takes 3-4 hits from an MBT to sink one

[indigo valley]

If you want to take a look

[full cloak]

[indigo valley]

Yeah, MBTs kill shards super quick

So, if I want to grantee the shards survice I usually just do pillboxes and IFVs

[full cloak]

Shard resistant shore battery

[indigo valley]

That's great actually

[full cloak]

you can replace the MBTs with anything, including IFVs and SPAAGs

[indigo valley]

I want more defensive buildings :3

[dreamy peak]

spaag is meh

ifvs are awesome

they fire missiles

[indigo valley]

Well you'll be happy to know that in my head cannon Aerosentrys are a BDF thing, so no fighting them here 😛

I know that's not what Mitch has said but still

[dreamy peak]

that is probably correct tbh

[full cloak]

a bit of a note, the shards will bombard and eventually kill the pillboxes but the vehicles themselves will last much longer until the player drops a bomb on them

[dreamy peak]

bdf has better tech, but fewer of it

and generally bigger, but slower stuff

[indigo valley]

Also, I don't have them added currently in this build, but there is a mock carrier that the players will spawn in on right on the map border, then fly to help the landings.

The carrier is there, but I removed the planes so that it didn't force spawn

when i need to spectate

[full cloak]

since there's no carrier until the next patch you can make forced spawns until the island is captured

[indigo valley]

Yeah, I have forced spawns on the "carrier"

or I will

once dev is done

[full cloak]

you can probably find a way to give each player 3 lives by using the player controlled box and timed objectives linked to each plane

it will be a bit of a mess for the objective list though

[indigo valley]

Yeah, I intentionally made the aa defences light, because I wanted players to have a good chance of survival on one life.

Once the carrier is real, that will solve that issue

then I can make a really difficult and longer landinhg

Becasue right now it takes ~3-4 minutes

to cap the base

I did not think about using timed objectives to rig spawns though, that's smart

I was also thinking about putting players on the shards as Chicanes, but some people are BAD at helicopters...

I'm thinking I am going to just add some more enemies and call it Total Breakout

[full cloak]

I would really recommend giving it a new name otherwise some might just think that it's normal Breakout with additional factories or something

[full cloak]

could have each life spawn a new plane/loadout, keep the players on their toes

start with a Cricket, then a Chicane, then a Compass...

or invert it to punish them for failure

[indigo valley]

lol

[full cloak]

"You blew up all our nice planes, here a crop duster"

[indigo valley]

At this point, the landing is pretty quick and more just for theatrics.

but I love the idea of making it feel like a remnant force of the BDF with garbage equipment

I am stoked for carriers though

Like I am going to immedietly make d-day

[dense pebble]

ever wanted base game RNG in nuclear option

or other funky stuff?

[indigo valley]

^^^obviously

[dense pebble]

essentially what im trying to make

[indigo valley]

interesting

kind of like a dynamic mode

[dense pebble]

only thing is, its going to be a physical set of things in-game

so you could say, add it to a custom mission whilst keeping it modless

[full cloak]

would a D2 just be two identical recon trucks firing at each other until one dies

[dense pebble]

probably

but than you gotta deal with a D-3 D-4 and so on

[topaz locust]

a D4 is three D2s, where you have a D2 control which of the next D2s gets rolled

[dense pebble]

Yeah, but than I also wanna do like a d-3+ that just permanently removes one option from the grouping

Which isn't to hard

I already have a system set-up, just gotta get the rng down

Actually make an if gate aswell with ease

Eh, you can already do that with objectives though

[full cloak]

maybe you can leverage physics a bit by making a shard pachinko machine

[dense pebble]

:)

No, the shard isn't round

It would be heavily biased

[full cloak]

hmm

Wind turbulence based random number generator?

would make the rest of the map unplayable though

[dense pebble]

I'm just gonna base everything around units

Makes life easier

[full cloak]

yeah fair

unfortunately turing completeness is out of the question until recursion exists (likely not in the next update)

if we could set the number of flares a plane starts with we could maybe leverage flare RNG

[dense pebble]

Just run it through a biased by number d-20

[full cloak]

how are you doing the d20?

actually nevermind I'll just wait and see where this leads lol

[dense pebble]

;D

@topaz locust today might be the day I re-program your building kit xD

f^cks sake, just realized I gotta deal with datalink for the units to even fire on eachother

[dense pebble]

I am to believe HLT trucks have a threat level of 0 meaning stuff wont fire upon it...

[warm quiver]

Things will fire on hlt trucks and its the basis of brassy's "sitting ducks" mission (and my spinoff of it)

[red grail]

As much as I appreciate the work going on to get some randomness into the game and rebuild a Turing machine using units shooting each other...
Wouldn't it be easier for Mitch, James and Squeegy to implement some very basic randomness in objectives conditions and outcomes ??

I'm sure we can lobby them hard enough to get something implemented, even the most basic "Pick 1 random option out of X possible options" would go a long way...

[full cloak]

HLT munitions trucks yes but on the normal HLT tractors and flatbeds probably no

[full cloak]

this is more of a fun experiment to stretch the limits of the editor more than anything, though I bet Atali could find a legitimate use for it in a mission

[red grail]

OK fair, I appreciate pure scientific interest... Let me know when you manage to play Doom on the Darkreach MFD !

[full cloak]

more likely we're gonna have a 32x32 pixel display made out of spawning and blowing up small platforms

[dense pebble]

wheres the fun in that though

[indigo valley]

Any idea what would cause spawned units to ignore a road nearby and decide to go directly towards the objectice across country? Even when the road is quite direct?

[hardy linden]

that should only happen if the road is not direct

OR that road is not pathed

[indigo valley]

I'm not sure what is going on tbh. It's an added road that leads from the coast to the nearest highway (fully pathed). If I delete the road, the units drive straight to the highway, but if I have it pathed, they decide to head directly towards the objective over a mountain range.

I just deleted it, and it seemed to fix the issue, but seems odd.

[hardy linden]

if you want you can send a video(s) of it

and possibly put it in bug reports

[indigo valley]

I'll play around with it and see if I can figure out what is causing it

[rocky gorge]

these aircraft keep circling around the airbase and trying to land

they have a waypoint reach objective and a kill objective

ocasionally a compass does fly toward the objective but it only does bvr combat (there are no ground vehicles)

[indigo valley]

IIRC reach waypoint objectives only function for the player (or can be completed by the player). So, the AI will just go to the point and circle. Unless it has changed.

[rocky gorge]

may have found an answer: do planes without any A2G weaponry and no datalink targets just RTB because of no targets?

[indigo valley]

Yes, any aircraft without a target or objective will RTB immediately

Same if it doesn't have weapons that available weapons can target/damage

I was having quite the time trying to figure out why Chicanes were taking off and then immediately landing, the problem was their only target was a hardened hanger, which they can't damage.

[tawdry rapids]

Dose anyone make missions? If anyone dose I was thinking. A medium scale no spaag ( apart from at airbases ) and fewer radar stations for both sides and more planes for enemy only. The final adjustment would to only have ships in the centeral 'lake'. I think this would encourage more a2a and precision bombing and the use of conventional cruise missiles.

[frank thicket]

sure thing, i'll get started on it in a few hours

[indigo valley]

No Spaag!? The nerve

[final pulsar]

Hopefully it's a co-op, or worlds fastest speed run

[tawdry rapids]

I absolutely hate it 1 spaag destroyed 16 cruise missiles

[tawdry rapids]

Thanks

[indigo valley]

As a habitual overuser of Spaag, I get it. Aerosentries are pretty potent, anvils are less annoying.

[tawdry rapids]

Anvils: 0/10 looks 0/10 annoying-ness
Aerosentries: 10/10 looks 10/10 annoying-ness

[full cloak]

...you could make this mission yourself in like, one hour's time, tops

[final pulsar]

once radar sams are done, SPAAG in reasonable numbers are easily taken out

[humble compass]

anvils also have a nasty habit of easily intercepting lynchpins because they fly straight and the 57mm detonation is big

autosentries shred airplanes better

[tawdry rapids]

Idk what it's called but it looks sick

[tawdry rapids]

I've got no clue how to make missions

But I mean if anyone would want to teach me?

[full cloak]

it sounds like you'd just take Domination and remove all the Aerosentries and Anvils, then replace them with SAMs

and I guess move all the ships to the middle. It's just moving things around. Very simple

[tawdry rapids]

Oh yea

I could use domination as a starting point

[full cloak]

Go to the main menu, open Mission Editor, click on Domination, save as [Mission Name Here], then start deleting stuff and replacing them as needed

[tawdry rapids]

I may have a go

[full cloak]

Scoobe has a good guide on the Mission Editor interface available on Steam

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3226495954

[tawdry rapids]

Ah thanks

[warm quiver]

I wonder how much the upcoming economy and ordinance manufacturing systems will mess with custom missions

[full cloak]

can always just turn the economy off, by giving players a trillion dollars

[warm quiver]

I'm more wondering about the ordinance manufacturing buildings and the fact we'll need to place all those

[hardy linden]

will only apply to nukes most likely

hopefully

[warm quiver]

either way it's less of an actual problem and just tedious work

"tedious"

[hardy linden]

assuming you only need nukes, thats 1 extra building

multiple if you feel like it

[warm quiver]

I could've sworn I saw mitch post a teaser where one was manufacturing not-nukes

[hardy linden]

nah

[warm quiver]

u right

[hardy linden]

he did not

im 99% sure now

this building is just for nukes

[patent fern]

its just for nukes

[warm quiver]

I sense that impatient people will attempt to (and fail) Compass nuke because it only needs to carry one nuke, whereas the others all need to wait for more than one to be in stock

[hardy linden]

ngl I love seeing people speculating on stuff about the new update and me just knowing theyre wrong

[hardy linden]

hope it will be possible to load just 1 or use only half the bay or sth

[fresh mortar]

🤓

[elfin comet]

Where did this come from?

[indigo valley]

I believe a dev stream

[elfin comet]

Hm

alright

Looks cool lol

[quick elm]

anyone have luck getting ground vehicles to go after airbases? I tried:

• DestroyUnit objectives, which works as long as theres marked enemies to go after, which is usually for exactly one capture.
• ReachWaypoint, which also works, to the detriment of literally any other objective being ignored

havent tried ReachUnits yet. not sure if unit waypoints persist after the unit dies but i imagine it falls into one of the above categories.

[topaz locust]

Vehicles will go after the closest active objective, so just having one on the airbase should be enough.

but if you have other objectives closer to them, they'll go after those instead

Pre-placed vehicles can have explicit waypoints assigned to them in the editor, but if they're coming from factories/depots they just chase objectives

Also, even though vehicles will use them for navigation, reach objectives can only be completed by players

so there's an existing pitfall where units will bunch up on a reach objective unless a player passes through it or it's completed by a seperate outcome

[quick elm]

Gotcha. Thanks for the info.

[indigo valley]

What I do currently (for the AI team) is set destroy unit objectives, with them targeting pillboxes, hangars, and factories surrounding the base. This way, they are almost required to capture the base to meet the objective. I usually then have a spawn trigger for units with a preset waypoint to spawn in and drive to the base and they setup defenses (also making sure the base is capped). Unless they get destroyed but then it is what it is. This can be repeated with more spawned buildings and more destroy objectives, but it gets messy quickly, so I usually only have it set for one round of respawns.

Hopefully that makes some sense

I don't make AI target player bases using vehicles, because they are fragile and players can manually order them to leave

[quick elm]

it does, thanks. Thats usually why I have important objectives paired with airbases where possible, so they get captured as the game progresses. Havent tried repeating objectives and reinforcements yet though except for maybe one of my missions (mainly because im lazy but also like keeping objectives trimmed down) but it'd be worth looking at

[warm quiver]

Taking another crack at fixing my mission and the mountain range the darkreaches have to crest before firing their cruise missiles is really messing things up

they fire while still decending to their preferred altitude, which means they crash into their cruise missiles and die

I'd have to completely move all 18 of them so their approach doesn't crest the mountains to fix it

Also a side note, ever since the AI got a "confidence" metric, the follow-up darkreaches won't go in and bomb the base, which means there's less target saturation, which means the initial attack completely flops
Unlike the previous version of the game where the base would only just survive if you did nothing

I would go and boost the "confidence" of the attacking 'reaches by giving them more escorts but that would become extremely unfair on the player

[topaz locust]

see if this value is serialized in the current versions of missions:

[warm quiver]

ye they are

[warm quiver]

okay yeah bumping those values fixed that issue 👌

[last sable]

how can i make a workshop appear on my user missions ?

[warm quiver]

a workshop?

[last sable]

yes

[warm quiver]

what do you mean by a workshop

like a factory building?

[last sable]

i'm trying to change the weather of the carrier one

yeah a workshop mission sry

[hardy linden]

you need to find and move the file to user missions

[last sable]

i did 🥲

[hardy linden]

then make sure the file names match

and remove the workshop part from meta

just leave the first line

[last sable]

thx

[balmy hill]

18 darkreaches?

[indigo valley]

[balmy hill]

thats over 4 billion dollars for the aircraft's production alone

[soft heart]

i did the math, it checks out

[warm quiver]

There's a reason there isnt much else

[rocky gorge]

i'm making a purely dogfight mission, but i need ideas to spice it up a bit more, any ideas for POIs or structures? also made an infographic

[warm quiver]

Maybe some light forward AA emplacements (mostly areosentry+few IR or even recon trucks) as places to fall back to when being chased

[rocky gorge]

not sure how i feel about that:
having AA would just let players camp in these areas, and would kind of ruin the pure dogfighting aspect, and the more observant players would use hills and mountains to hide
however, i do like having places to fall back to that can fire back

[warm quiver]

someone explain to me how to spawn chicanes in the air without having them immediately crash

they have 220m altitude at 160km/h start speed

[indigo valley]

https://tenor.com/view/you-don't-invincible-omni-man-jk-simmons-that's-the-neat-thing-gif-4390372980992221432

[warm quiver]

pain

I've spawned a player controlled one just fine

[indigo valley]

Unless someone else knows something, AI Chicanes only seem to be able to spawn in air if they spawn at mission start.

Otherwise, they need to start on the ground. It's an AI issue, that's why player Chicanes work fine.

[warm quiver]

oh, fair

I've had some spawn on the backs of shards and some of them were crashing upon spawn, so I thought spawning them in the air would be better but apparently not

[indigo valley]

You can have them spawn on shards as long as they are facing forward. The AI apparently doesn't understand how to use the brakes and tends to slide off of the back.

If they face forward, they usually roll back a little but are able to take off.

They have 0 problem taking off from a stationary Shard but can takeoff 90% of the time from a moving one if placed correctly

[patent fern]

i know brassy was having considerable problems with getting chicanes to not die on mid-mission spawn

[indigo valley]

I've never been able to get it to work. So, all of my mid mission Chicanes spawn on the ground. Not sure why mission start Chicanes are fine in the air though.

[full cloak]

yep

spawning them on an elevated platform (the aerial cruiser) resulted in them bumrushing the airbase at mach jesus

[final pulsar]

i have had the same issue with darkreaches

[patent fern]

oh yeah that's true

they also like to just combust on mid game spawn for some unknown reason

[indigo valley]

I find it only affects Darkreaches if they carry cruise missiles / nuclear cruise missiles. They often collide with them on launch and burst into flames.

[patent fern]

[indigo valley]

It's more of the AI being dumb and descending hard while dropping cms

[patent fern]

that's definitely worth experimenting to confirm if it hasn't already

[indigo valley]

I have a fairly large sample set 😅

[patent fern]

interesting

[indigo valley]

If you want the AI to launch cms without killing themselves you need to spawn the Darkreach very low over level ground so they pull up while dropping

They do a slightly better job if they takeoff themselves

But they still suck at deploying cms

[patent fern]

that's actually pretty good to know

hadn't considered one specific weapon was causing the seppuku since i recall having seen it happen in several different missions

but i could believe it

[indigo valley]

Yeah, they either knock the cms off course or tear off a wing and burst into flames

It took me a lot of experimenting to get them to launch every time successfully

Usually though, if they takeoff by themselves they launch while ascending, so it works out

[warm quiver]

This has been a super consisent problem ive been experiencing in my missions and ive stopped bothering to fix it

[indigo valley]

Yeah, they need to force the AI to hold altitude when it dropping

It would solve the issue

[final pulsar]

we need an asset stitcher tool/mesh rebaking tool, can use the unity/blender pipeline that exists. static objects only.

[real pagoda]

so this is the building being added in the next update?

[indigo valley]

Yes, it's part of the economy updated

Nukes will be a production item

Like vehicles

[final pulsar]

gonna be the HVT in every game

[indigo valley]

Absolutely

[fickle crane]

i wont fail

pvp maps are too eaazy

[hardy linden]

not when the enemy team is competent

[dense pebble]

Like my team

[terse orchid]

[fickle crane]

maybe 😛 call me when u play

[hardy linden]

I guess you can ping me on saturday if you want to

[fickle crane]

Deal 😄 Got a flight stick?

[hardy linden]

no

prefer to play on controller

well, I actually do

but I play on controller anyway

[final pulsar]

Taco Tuesday hosts escalation maps all the time, your more than welcome to join us 😉.

[fickle crane]

i probably did before 😄 will today mby

[terse orchid]

Yay someone new to play with

[fickle crane]

dont be mistaken haha i am serching also for fresh meat 😛

[terse orchid]

Lol fam I'll make you into my next highlight reel on YouTube

[fickle crane]

Tokyo drift revoker

[terse orchid]

And this also #community-streaming message

[fickle crane]

I could setup recording also

someone reworked escalation

[terse orchid]

Last update Escalation had a big rework there's also domination and confrontation for smaller PvP matches

[final pulsar]

There is many different versions of escalation, some are balanced, some are not. Unless @frank thicket gives me a bad file....

[frank thicket]

hey who told you about that free flight mission i made

that was classified

[fickle crane]

lmao

[final pulsar]

Says it's co-op, isn't.

[frank thicket]

the idea was simply ahead of its time

the world wasnt ready for the fake pve escalation lobby

[terse orchid]

Hey wasn't that map the first time @fresh mortar saw me when I nuked him?

[frank thicket]

yes

anyways @fickle crane i eagerly await blood for the blood god so let us know when you're available for a match against us

at least i think that's whats going on here

idk i havent had my coffee yet

[fickle crane]

Sure kinda now. I have a short date in an hour. An milf introduction lmao

[frank thicket]

not available rn but maybe in a few hours

[fickle crane]

oof sleepy time for me in a few hours. I am GMT +1 , UTC+1

[dense pebble]

Run, she has kids

[real pagoda]

how do make structure so it has to be destroyed to complete the mission

[dense pebble]

Go to objectives

Actually lemmi get screenshots up

@real pagoda so, do you want this to be the last objective?

[real pagoda]

yeah

give me a sec

[dense pebble]

objectives

[hardy linden]

just add a destroyunit outcome

[hardy linden]

set to destroy all and add the units you want destroyed

[dense pebble]

go to the faction you want

[hardy linden]

wait theres a faction filter?

[dense pebble]

yes

[hardy linden]

I spend most of my time in the editor and havent realised

[dense pebble]

you would know if your missions were better

;3

so

[hardy linden]

I dont think that has to do anything with me knowing that

[dense pebble]

your missions are all PVE no?

[hardy linden]

most of the ones I make are PvE singleplayer

made a PvP one some time ago

[dense pebble]

so choose what you want and make a destroy units objective for the team

select the unit you want

and set its outcome to end game

[hardy linden]

also make it be started by the mission start objective

I'm pretty sure thats something you have to do

[real pagoda]

here are the screenshots

that you asked for

[dense pebble]

I was refering to my own screenshots

[real pagoda]

ah ok

[hardy linden]

the look of the build does not change anything

except that it looks cool and congrats on your patience

[real pagoda]

well it is bulit behind the main base of primera and bacilico so its almost like a defence platform just on the sea

[hardy linden]

bacilico 💀

[real pagoda]

plus the whole objective is bacicly to expand map stucctures since there isent much as of now in the game

[real pagoda]

dident feel like going in to the game and correcting it

[hardy linden]

isnt the game 1 alt+tab away?

[real pagoda]

yes💀

[dense pebble]

Boscali?

Bacailico

[hardy linden]

bocailoco

and prayimrefa

[final pulsar]

thats cool

[indigo valley]

When you see the new city maps, all the cool new equipment, and objects... Getting super excited... Then realize how much you're going to have to do to update and / or recreate your missions

[hardy linden]

so far it shouldn't be too bad

[warm quiver]

for once I'm extremely glad I procrastinated something, my city mission

[dreamy peak]

yep

complete overhaul

and it looks nothing like its older self now

[warm quiver]

but do we have any new QoL features for the editor

I NEED a marquee select

[dreamy peak]

a what

[warm quiver]

draw a box around a bunch of stuff to select them

idk the spelling its a dumb french word

[dreamy peak]

ah

[dreamy peak]

but no, nothing yet

[warm quiver]

pain

[dreamy peak]

i think the editor is capable enough for .28, but after that it def needs some new features

[warm quiver]

I don't want to move 18 aircraft individually...

[dreamy peak]

clamping units to other units will be a life saver once we get that

[hardy linden]

you can move them via json by adding/substracting z distance from x and y if you want them to stay in formation

thats faster for long distances than moving normally

[warm quiver]

I suppose

but that means I need to do maaath

[hardy linden]

not math

if it doesnt need to be specific you can just add a 1 in front of each

[stray cloak]

can someone tell me how feasible this is lol

@dense pebble @indigo valley @full cloak

[dense pebble]

Just a sec

(Running to my pc now

[stray cloak]

I make it to the loop but can't get further haha

[dense pebble]

oooo

this is fun

yeah that loop

it needs to be smoothened out more

[final pulsar]

loop needs a bit of extra space

[dense pebble]

shit

[full cloak]

oh damn

[final pulsar]

or more gradual entery

[dense pebble]

yeah

what kia said

[dense pebble]

also-

dont do a full solid loop

take a note from rollercoasters

[stray cloak]

damn its not far off

[dense pebble]

they have a funky loop that keeps tham at a constant G-force

[stray cloak]

just needs a few more pieces

[dense pebble]

a more teardrop shape

[final pulsar]

let me try one more thing

[patent fern]

man acro server has changed since i last saw it

[stray cloak]

happy for someone to finish this off...I'm tired of placing platforms haha

[dense pebble]

I have the program

just a second

@stray cloak you would be fine if I re-made it just with large platforms

[stray cloak]

that's fine im done with it

[dense pebble]

sick mate

(also, I recommend switching over to the revoker, the compass doesn't have the TTW out of that last corner to get around that loop)

(ima test that now)

[stray cloak]

the revoker felt so bad

I tried it

I exclusively use mouse + keyboard though

[full cloak]

that second turn is damn tight

[final pulsar]

even with AOA limiter off, you just pancake into it

[stray cloak]

yeah haha you basically stall every time

[dense pebble]

actually

how does the medusa do...

[full cloak]

okay finally managed it

basically ended up the same as loki

[dense pebble]

yeah

[stray cloak]

maybe just do it in the chicane and call it a day

[patent fern]

real

[dense pebble]

it rolls to slow to make it to the loop

[stray cloak]

gahhh

[stray cloak]

I feel this would be even harder to pull off than a normal loop

with the top being so tight

[dense pebble]

your plane has next to no speed up there

it stalls out and falls down

[final pulsar]

got it, had to do some funny to do it

dang can't send the video

[full cloak]

best attempt so far

[stray cloak]

damn that was really close

I've reduced the attack of the slope partially but it makes for a less cool loop

lmk how that goes

[stray cloak]

I'm openening a thread for this

[dense pebble]

hell yeah

[indigo valley]

AC Tunnel mission

but this is actually amazing

[patent fern]

i'll try this later

[stray cloak]

Thanks! The loop itself needs filling in but I'm sick of placing ramps at this point

[final pulsar]

not a clean run. but did it in the official too

[dense pebble]

have you got blender?

[stray cloak]

No :/

[dense pebble]

ah :/

[final pulsar]

gravity kinda wins in the end

[indigo valley]

The part where you brushed up against the side of it made me tense up ngl but niiice

[final pulsar]

there is just bit too much weight on the transfer. gun removal might help.

[topaz locust]

draining fuel will go a long way too

[vestal tiger]

could someone tell me how can i make them do things? i cant figure it out xd

[indigo valley]

Ground units will make their way to the nearest active objective. You can also set waypoints specific to each unit (only preplaced units).

The AI does what we're seeing here when there isn't a visible objective that they can reach, try adding a "destroy unit" objective, since it is the easiest way to get the ground units to go where you want. As you get more familiar with the mission editor, you can get them to do some pretty complex maneuvers.

[vestal tiger]

oh thanks, i made an objective but i think i did something wrong and its not working xd

[topaz locust]

make a StartObjecti- ninja'd

[indigo valley]

Note that waypoints set in the editor as objectives can only be completed by the players, so if you set it there the AI will just congregate until a player passed through it

[topaz locust]

ReachWaypoints and ReachUnits objectives ^

[indigo valley]

Good clarification ^

[topaz locust]

Upwards arrow ^

[indigo valley]

^^^^

[vestal tiger]

thamk you, i put three objectives in there but only one works xd

[indigo valley]

You need to add an outcome (StartObject) to the objective you want to start the next one, unless you want them all to start at the same time (then put them in like displayed above).

[vestal tiger]

i wanted all of them to start at the same time but only one started

[indigo valley]

Take a screenshot of this

You can throw as many objectives to start at one time as you want.

If you have a screenshot I can see what went wrong

[indigo valley]

For the destroy units objective, check and see if it says "destroy all" or "in order". If it's all then it will add a marker for each unit (with a max of 3 at a time). So, it may look like the other objectives are not active even if they are.

The "in order" option only shows 1 marker per objective

[vestal tiger]

oh i guess its the three objectives then xd

but its weird that it shows three from the second one

[indigo valley]

It shows the 3 closest objects

targets

So, it is probably just showing the 3 closest units to destroy

all from the same objective

[vestal tiger]

is the dialouge box affected by it too since it didnt show? xd

or maybe thats singleplayer only

[indigo valley]

It should display, If you want, DM me the mission file and I will take a look and see what's going on

[vestal tiger]

its not that important since am probably not gonna publish it or anything just wanted to do something silly xd

[indigo valley]

Everyone starts somewhere, it's all good.

The editor can be overwhelming at first.

[vestal tiger]

its alright xd

also is there something specific that you need to put next to a radar station or how do i make it the factions radar? xd

[indigo valley]

Units need to almost literally be touching it

[vestal tiger]

thamk :3

[vestal tiger]

also how do i make ai planes spawn? xd
i have a factory to make them

[indigo valley]

Faction factory + allied airfield

They should spawn at whatever rate you set in the factory

[vestal tiger]

yeah i have a arfield they just dont spawn xd

[indigo valley]

Is the factory's faction set

[vestal tiger]

yeas

[indigo valley]

and then you selected a unit and set a production time?

[vestal tiger]

mhm

[indigo valley]

It's really that simple, I couldn't tell you what's wrong without looking at it.

[vestal tiger]

ill test some things

i put 30s crickets and now it works xd

idk maybe they got shot down when i wasnt looking or idk xd

[indigo valley]

Like were they factory spawned or manually placed by you?

[vestal tiger]

spawned

or maybe probably they didnt spawn because i didnt have the objectives done xd

[indigo valley]

Well, as long as it's working now ✅

[vestal tiger]

is there a way to explode things with some debug thing or idk to test if the mission is working? xd

it kinda takes a lot of time to do it with the planes xd

[hardy linden]

you can always spawn a bunch of friendly darkreaches I guess

but no theres no debug cheats

[vestal tiger]

errr

[full cloak]

there's a few things you can do depending on the situation

currently fire damage is bugged and will wreck buildings so just having a plane or helicopter crash into a building deals a good amount of damage

otherwise, you can set a mission objective that will spawn a friendly munitions truck and enemy Chicane with only its cannon, if you place the chicane behind the truck it the gunner will shoot it at point blank and blow it up

simply have the objective be a "WaitSeconds" timer and set it to the desired time

[vestal tiger]

darkreach would be probably the best xd

[full cloak]

yeah when in doubt just call in the bombers

[indigo valley]

Would love if you were able to spawn munitions

[last sable]

Could someone explain me how to get the dialogue box objective to appear pls

[patent fern]

you mean making a message appear in the chatbox on an objective? use a ShowMessage outcome for that

[last sable]

no the dialogue box with a button

[patent fern]

oh, i have no idea how that works

@final pulsar you did that on your landing mission, can you explain it?

[final pulsar]

huh
oh hi lol

Lemme get my mission and show

Different mission (totally not a leak lol) but here's how I generally did it

[patent fern]

destroy spy?

RED SPY IS IN THE BASE

[last sable]

so mission start --triggers-> dialogue box --triggers-> next objective ?

[final pulsar]

NUH UHH

[final pulsar]

uhh I think so lol

[last sable]

that's what i did

[final pulsar]

uhhh

did you set your objective start with the objective box

[final pulsar]

uhh

no idea then

soz :/

[last sable]

nw

[last sable]

I just had to uncheck faction specific

[final pulsar]

ah oki

👍

[dreamy peak]

How about using the RTS feature for a mission? Could be fun

[final pulsar]

i would like some more RTSy features for the AI, set targets and paths and stuff.

obviously like bottom priority in development terms, but it would be neat

[somber folio]

any way to remove a type of vehicle for all factions

cus im tryna do escalation with no AA

[hardy linden]

only manually

[full cloak]

with some json editing you can swap them all out for APCs or something

literally just find and replace

[somber folio]

thx but i dont know how to do any of thos😕

[indigo valley]

Just remove the factories that produce them. If you can't edit the .JSON file manually you would just need to remove the pre placed aa units and then changing the factories so no more are produced.

All can be done in the mission editor

[somber folio]

how do i change factories

[hardy linden]

what do you mean change factories

[somber folio]

nvm found out

[patent fern]

probably meant choosing what spawns them

[somber folio]

how many sam factorys are there

ive found 1 so far

[hardy linden]

many

[somber folio]

where

[hardy linden]

oh sam factories

[hardy linden]

you said factories

there are at least 2 then

1 for each faction

[somber folio]

yea i did it thx yall

[warm quiver]

Oh man I wonder how broken my mission is

[indigo valley]

I don't think it was too harsh, for me at least, mostly just needed to fix Darkreach loadouts and move units that were now stuck in buildings.

[topaz locust]

Darkreach loadouts will have moved around, but other than the only bug that cropped up on the official missions were that AI planes which couldn't see any targets at the time they spawned would RTB (fixed by adding an enemy objective to kill the player/wingmen)

there were many more issues to do with balancing due to the new AI, which took way longer to fix

in general they're more potent and can do more with less

[warm quiver]

Oh right the editor is bugged so I can't rotate stuff

[topaz locust]

yup - we're aware of this

it came very fresh with the update

[frank thicket]

oh on the subject of missions being bugged, me, loki, and some other people tried to do a carrier duel lobby but we didn't start at rank 4, which apparently according to loki we were supposed to, not sure if that's a fundamental code issue or if it's just an issue with how the mission was set up, either way might be something worth looking into

[topaz locust]

Yeah seems to be a bug introduced with retroactive rank changes calculated from score. I think, in the meantime, just give everyone a bunch of money.

[frank thicket]

alr will pass this on

[final pulsar]

Throw money at the problem lol got it !

[warm quiver]

I need to double check something - players do actually pull airframes from the starting/production inventory now right, instead of magically out of thin air?

[warm quiver]

Should I include the carrier in my mission just for the hell of it?
It'll just be chilling next to an existing owned airbase tho

I wonder what the detonation of a munitions truck next to it would do...

[topaz locust]

planes bought with money are pulled magically from an external market, while planes that are reserved come from the faction

[warm quiver]

Lifesaver

[warm quiver]

Placing one there has all the attackers focus it like nothing else even matters :(

I'll have to have it spawn late

its gonna be weird having it just appear out of nowhere though

[topaz locust]

the AI will weigh their focus on targets by distance & value

and carriers seem like they're pretty valuable

[violet garnet]

hey guys what's the behavior of ai on normal escalation? because to me it seems like they focus on the left side (the bridge) and totally ignore the right

[topaz locust]

they'll spawn from the nearest vehicle depot to the current objective and head for that. As you destroy structures they'll swap around where they spawn from

there are a handful of preplaced convoys which have their own agendas - usually supporting other locations that have been hit

note that the distance is as the crow flies, meaning sometimes BDF convoys will spawn at SBGA when it'd be more useful for them to spawn on the eastern front

[violet garnet]

ah ok. I'd like to make boscali focus on desert airstrip and then the desert airbase whereas pala should conquer the airstrip->conquer the bridge airport->conquer the city airbase.
How can i do this? Because in the objectives there's lots of stuff but i'd like to keep it simple, since i'm planning on only playing as pala and boscali shouldn't be able to destroy the desert airstrip or, if they happen to, they should then attack the desert airbase

i did this for every update but honestly it was a mess and i wouldn't like to spend 4-5 hours trying to manage all the objectives like i had to do for the previous update haha

especially because the bridge zone becomes difficult to push through when the bridge is filled with corpses of broken vehicles haha the game gets kinda softlocked

[topaz locust]

The objectives for Escalation have become very complex, but there are only two sets of things guiding the vehicles - the marked objectives, usually prefixed with "Destroy", which activate each other in order, and some invisible objectives with "Push" in their name, which mark various structures (usually vehicle depots) like a breadcrumb trail to get the most variation in spawning

[violet garnet]

mhm yeah

[topaz locust]

PALA has a "Push" for both the west and east fronts while BDF has a single "Push" objective which attacks sandrift (formerly desert) and wraps around to the west

[violet garnet]

@topaz locust sorry to bother but i really don't understand the AI: i've placed 3-4 crickets in the BDF airstrip and when the game starts they immediately head to the bridge area passing through the city instead of attacking the much closer enemies in the desert airstrip area

instead of going to attack the closest enemies (red arrow) they follow the purple arrow to attack the bridge area... why? also in doing so they miserably crash into the skyscrapers lmao

ah i think i've understood why... it's because i've put a carrier on the left side... why is the carrier so important to the enemy though wtf they just push it regardless of everything, it's so annoying

[patent fern]

tf i aint seen you in ages

[hardy linden]

yeah the AI get serious tunnel vision when carriers are involved

I'd say to the point it's gamebreaking

[violet garnet]

ahahah i've played a bit when the last update released but my last year of highschool has been really busy. Looking forward to play again though

[patent fern]

good to see you bud

[violet garnet]

ah ok ok, then i'll wait for the hotfix to add a carrier near the front

[violet garnet]

thanks mate <3

[hardy linden]

I wouldn't be surprised if that hotfix never comes

[violet garnet]

also cuz every time an update drops i waste hours on changing things around in the escalation PALA map to add more enemies and remove ai

[hardy linden]

mitch knew about it since a long time

[violet garnet]

ah

[hardy linden]

it's not as bad as earlier, but it's still really bad

[violet garnet]

yeah

why wouldn't he fix it though?

[hardy linden]

because its mitch

he didnt give the compass a tailhook because he didnt wanna remodel it

well, it would break many skins

but still

[violet garnet]

mh

well i hope he'll fix it eventually xd

[hardy linden]

this may be useful for mission creators

and it actually works somewhat well, damn

doesn't fall off immiediately

[last sable]

i use it all the time 🤣
and i do like the tractor in front of r9s to make it appear as if they were towing it

[hollow path]

Okay. I have NO understanding of what the logic of waypoints is.

I keep trying to set up a carrier landing practice mission that'll let me just have the carrier sail a nice long straight path, and it just seems to pick a direction consistently but mysteriously.

[full cloak]

it will try to use sea lanes to get to your waypoint

most likely, your carrier is driving along (or trying to get to) the nearest sea lane instead of the intended path, check the roads tab

[frank thicket]

we did some bug testing earlier in taco tuesday, seems that when the carrier is put in the new sections of the now expanded map, it just tries to go straight towards 0,0 and doesnt care about obstacles, frequently resulting in it beaching itself

sea lanes don't affect anything and neither will manually ordering it

[hollow path]

Aha. Good to know.

[frank thicket]

a bug report has been sent to mitch about it, we compiled the log files and gave a summary of various bugs involving the carrier

hopefully it can get fixed soon

@hollow path if you want practice with the carrier, it's probably best to just put it in the central sea and have it hold still

harder than landing on it while it's moving, but sadly we don't have a better option right now

[hollow path]

Would have to set up a headwind, but yeah.

[indigo valley]

My carriers seem to be working fine, not sure what's up

Maybe I am not waiting long enough

(At least following initial sealanes)

[frank thicket]

are they positioned along the very edges of the map?

so far we've only observed them going to 0,0 when they're placed in the new areas of the map

[indigo valley]

About to find out, testing.

[frank thicket]

try ordering them if you can, let me know if that's what causes them to start going to 0,0

would be valuable info to pass on to mitch

[indigo valley]

In beta we figured that there is something to do with the terrain not being able to be detected (hence the altitude and placement issues in the new areas), so the unit doesn't seem to actually know where it is. I'm going to play around with it and see what I can figure out.

[frank thicket]

alr, loki thinks it's just when it's ordered to go somewhere that it does that, and also earlier today we found it that it will do that if it's given a waypoint

[indigo valley]

Sorry, it will or will not do it with a waypoint?

[frank thicket]

we think that it will with a waypoint

we were trying to set up a carrier practice mission earlier along the eastern edge of the map, carrier started at the very southeastern end of it and would just beach itself no matter what we did, waypoints or manual ordering

[final pulsar]

Yeah, if you point them outside the old area they get a little nutty

[frank thicket]

oh, so it only goes to 0,0 if the new waypoint/order is outside the old area?

[final pulsar]

Commanding them in the old areas and they drive ok until they desync

[final pulsar]

Yeah

[frank thicket]

alr

@hollow path this may be something to try if you want a moving carrier

only order it to move to places within the old areas of the map, so anywhere very close to the shore along the edges of the map

[hollow path]

Interesting. Will try it out.

[frank thicket]

alr, let us know if it works

would be a good bit of information to have for the bug report in addition to letting you do what you originally wanted to do

[soft heart]

i think i already lectured an insomniac to sleep about how this is only the case if it's done dumbly.

simply put. weapons have pylons and separate firing weapons.

[hardy linden]

it would also very slightly break skins, even if done well

[soft heart]

tailhook can have a pod and a seperate rotating tailhook

the pod is the same as a pylon and the tailhook is a weapon

pretty easy stuff that hardly breaks anything

the real issue is the horrendius arrestor engine

[hardy linden]

tailhook is a weapon?

i mean makes sense

[soft heart]

in game terms

[hardy linden]

but you can paint it in blender

so it probably shouldnt be there

[soft heart]

jammer pod, tailhook are selected and applied using the weapon manager

[hardy linden]

on the template

[soft heart]

thats up to mitch to figure out, he could treat it with the plug and socket of the ifrits externals

there are 3 different ways each with their own pros and cons for each one

but again the compass getting a tailhook would require mitch to make the logic behind the force applied by the arrestor engine not be as simplistic as a scaled up landing gear suspension

[hardy linden]

by the way the compass should definitely get it, because it's hard to land on a stopped carrier with no weapons and full fuel

the game doesn't even see the carrier as a valid landing spot for the compass

[soft heart]

i have not been saying this from the early days of the beta but rather yelling to get this happening.

same goes for the revoker but more for the sake of variety and some kind of option between the compass and ifrit

darkreach is a funny joke

proper nose wheel steering was not a joke

corrected arresting engines were also not a joke

[hardy linden]

I remember when I landed the ifrit while driving over the wires and just braking, because the hook system is really flawed

I even have a video

[soft heart]

oh yeah and the fact the hook likes to fall back to the ground at the speed of its deploy rather than that of gravity

[hardy linden]

it doesn't even touch the ground

you need to artificially make it touch it, which feels kinda hard and forced to do

[warm quiver]

I've had so many carrier landings where the hook just skips clear over all the wires

[soft heart]

this is fine, the return speed is not

[hardy linden]

since AI just mastered having the perfect angle to catch it and not kill themselves

[hardy linden]

yeah, if you miss the wire, the hook will bounce up and over the wires

this makes no sense, is frustrating and unrealistic

mitch did not fix this since the beta

[soft heart]

good nose wheel steering + comedy

[warm quiver]

just did it again, ILS was perfect and all but it skipped over

[warm quiver]

halfpipe

[soft heart]

that is 90 degree nose steering with differential brakes at zero speed. one of the easiest things i ever coded.

[hardy linden]

why did mitch not add that

maybe not even 90 degree, but at least 60

[soft heart]

it works a treat and is simple enough i could code it

[hardy linden]

right now the planes barely turn

NO is a great game, but it just has these small, stupid issued mitch refuses to fix

[soft heart]

i think mitch some how miss understood my request for better nose wheel steering as to increase the nose wheel straightening speed 2 fold

instead of actual good nose wheel steering.

NO is a broadly a fantastic game tarnished by the lack of care placed into the little things

this can be seen a lot

"if you don't do small things just because big things exist you are a giant piece of [Faecal matter]" - Tom Cardy, call your mother

[warm quiver]

difficult truth

[soft heart]

this game should not have to be skyrim where you need mods to make the game feel complete

[soft heart]

there are things that are unreasonable for a game with a team of this size but 99% of the things talked about in this could likely be done in a in a day by a single person. combined. But not including the various R&D to fine tune some of the systems.

[humble compass]

this is realistic and happens in real life

if you land crappily with bad speed your hook will just bounce over the wires and you'll bolter

[hardy linden]

what does bad speed even mean

[humble compass]

not maintaining the right speed for the right angle of attack

ie too fast low aoa or too slow high aoa

[hardy linden]

the bouncing is a bit too extreme, still

[humble compass]

its arguably more forgiving than real life

[hardy linden]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1215153538099838986/1231194536898859049/Nuclearoption_2024-04-20_12-41-07.mp4?ex=66775484&is=66760304&hm=472cbb2d01afdc2d558ac8c9744434fe0b3ea2c4fa19f93644850dd3e2ccf114&

does this happen in real life?

[humble compass]

'too low' is an understatement for this you were on track to have direct hangar access

this would probably happen in real life

[warm quiver]

you need to really plant your ass down on the flight deck to catch the wire

doing buttery landings is NOT an option

which makes me sad

[hardy linden]

well, it is as you can see in the video

[warm quiver]

well if you want to catch a wire, I mean

[hardy linden]

that TWR is comically high too

[warm quiver]

can we just talk about how the music synced with the touchdown for a second

[humble compass]

its a shame i was too low and snagged a one wire for that one otherwise it'd've been fully sick

[warm quiver]

oh its better to catch the forward most wire?

[humble compass]

2 wire is best, 1 wire is too low and 3 wire is ocean landing trajectory

[warm quiver]

ah

[humble compass]

if your ifrit is a little on the heavier side a 3 wire will send you off the front of the deck

e.g.

[warm quiver]

oops

[rain escarp]

Can i somehow spawn a plane with its gear out in the mission editor?

[warm quiver]

if speed is zero and they're on the ground, the gear will be out when the mission is played

[hardy linden]

speed does not need to be 0

I think

yup it does not

[rain escarp]

Ah alright

Mustve been me moving the thing around that undid it

Thanks

[warm quiver]

Unless I purposely do what I consider a bad landing, I can't catch the wire
m a n .

[kindred harbor]

hey, bit of a lurker but im looking at making a couple of missions but i need to clear a couple things up

1. do i need to place ground units first then the vehicle factories will continue to spawn them?
2. are radar stations given factions entirely dependent on what faction has vehicles protecting it? as i cant seem to change their faction in the menu.
3. are troop movements for ground and sea ai driven or is it pathfinding?

Sorry if these have been asked before but theres no context in the mission editor

[hardy linden]

1. I dont know what you mean
2. They can be captured by ground units but have a really small capture zone
3. They move to the closest objective/waypoint, if a road is closer than it they will follow the road and get off near it

also there are roads in the water called sea lanes

[kindred harbor]

ok thanks, i should clarify that first point - if I made convoys for the start of the game to push on points, then will the Ai take over and churn out units as it needs them over the course of the battle?

[hardy linden]

if there are depots and units in the inventory, they will spawn them at the depot closest to an objective

factories add units to the inventory

[kindred harbor]

ok thanks man, ill have a look into the menus a bit more 👍🏻

[rocky gorge]

is there any way to prevent factory produced ai to not use purely a2g loadouts?

all of the planes i see are only using bombs and agms

the only objective is to kill a ground unit but there's still a ton of planes

[tardy sparrow]

the new aircraft makes revoker and compas completly irrelevant even darkreach in terms of hard points , missile load ect...

[frank thicket]

no yaw thrust vectoring, plus a higher cost

[tardy sparrow]

that's it but the amount of bombs and missile it can carries is just insane , in some games iven i'm max rank i would still use compas for ground attacking but like now the new aircraft is just OP 6 missiles plus like 12 bombs is insane

[frank thicket]

yes but again that is offset by the high cost

it's very high risk, high reward

a successful sortie offers huge benefits, but dying will set you back a long way

[hardy linden]

you can get another one for free by reserving it

[frank thicket]

and that only works as long as you have airframes in reserve/factories still producing them

you're not gonna be able to constantly spam them for an entire match

[hardy linden]

that is true

unless the factories are well protected

or you dont die

or you sell darkreaches

or you just have a lot of money

[frank thicket]

iirc i think the reserve/sell exploit only works once now before it puts you on a timer before you can sell anything again

you'd get like two ifrits from doing it but that's it

[hardy linden]

the timer is 120s

[frank thicket]

ok that's odd i thought it was a lot longer

[hardy linden]

if you lose an ifrit in this short of a time, you really suck at the game

[frank thicket]

yeah mitch may need to do something about that

[candid abyss]

has anyone managed to damage a shard by clipping something inside of it?

[hardy linden]

I think brassy and classy managed to turn them into planeshot (haha, get it?) by ramming them with highspeed darkreaches

#1131013817011294249 message

[full cloak]

it doesn't do damage, however if a shard gets overturned more than 45­° in any direction it'll capsize and sink

[candid abyss]

thanks!

[glass marlin]

annoyingly the carrier ILS seems to want you to do super gentle butter landings, which means doggedly following it (like actual pilots are meant to) causes you to bolter 100% of the time 😔

[glass marlin]

actually i get the real problem. the ILS is trying to make your cockpit intercept a point before the wires, which means another 15 or so meters of plane has to pass that point before the hook gets there, which isn't even the wires yet. you can do the 3 degree slope just fine as long as you aim further ahead than you should
if the ILS tried to align the tip of your hook with its touchdown point, instead of your cockpit, it would be much more trustworthy

[red grail]

That's cool... I wanted to do the same with a column of trucks carrying MBT to the front.
We'll see if future 'logistics' will allow this !

[hardy linden]

doesn't work very well

and an MBT would be too big

[red grail]

Probably... We'll need a larger trailer to fit a MBT 🙂

[glass marlin]

i retract my statements. the ils works fine... with a headwind... know, like you're generally supposed to have on a carrier xD
aiming ahead is only needed for static-carrier recovery

[mellow marlin]

is it possible to edit a mission you got off the workshop?

[frank thicket]

it's convoluted and i don't remember the exact method, but it is possible

involves manually editing files though

idk i think @final pulsar knows how to do it i believe since iirc he was the one that taught me

[indigo valley]

Very possible

[final pulsar]

take if from your mod folder and bring it to your local folder

[indigo valley]

What you need to do is download the mission from the workshop, then find it in the steam folder, then you need to make a mission in the editor with exactly the same name and move the files over

Replace the mission you created with the file from steam

If you did it correctly you'll be able to load the mission in game

If they are not named exactly the same they won't appear in the menu

[mellow marlin]

ok, where do i find the mod files

i havent done anything with mission editing yet

[indigo valley]

The easiest way is to go to the in game week workshop and hit show in folder

I'm away from my PC otherwise I'd send the path

[final pulsar]

this also changes if they have steam installed some where than default

[indigo valley]

Fair

[mellow marlin]

mine should be default,

ive looked around in all of those folders and couldnt find anything that i could recognize as helpful

[mellow marlin]

ah, i didnt understand what you meant, im a little dumb

[final pulsar]

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\workshop\content\2168680

then by mod ID

[mellow marlin]

got the .json open

what's the field for funds?

[final pulsar]

i have no idea, i don't edit via .json

[patent fern]

its near the bottom, i played around with it yesterday, hang on

find the "factions" header near the bottom, then you'll see this for both factions

to clarify this is using an edited free flight i have for testing i did not put 1 trillion dollars on a regular match

rest is self explanatory

[mellow marlin]

thanks, appreciate the help

[mellow marlin]

yeah im also editing a freeflight thing

[patent fern]

was legit just me wanting to know if jacking up the econ numbers in json past mission editor limits carried into the game, and yeah, it definitely does

[mellow marlin]

lmao

alrght where are the local map files held

[dreamy peak]

you only need to move the json file

[indigo valley]

Does it not need to be placed inside an already created folder?

[dreamy peak]

to the missions folder

[dreamy peak]

no

nuclear option does that itself

[indigo valley]

well, i've been making it more difficult for myself evidently

[dreamy peak]

yep

[candid abyss]

how do i get this cricket to land on the carrier instead of eject?

[indigo valley]

I may be wrong, but I believe the AI will only try to land ifrits on the carrier so far?

[glass marlin]

checks out, i know the carrier only gives landing assistance to the ifrit

[candid abyss]

aw that's unfortunate

[rocky gorge]

i do believe medusas can land on the carrier

#development-blog message

[hollow path]

I have not seen Crikets, Compass', nor Medusas land on the carrier. Only Ifrits. However, all four are capable of landing on the carrier. The Criket and Compass just have to use the ramp if they're a bit fast.

[candid abyss]

can i at least get the cricket to go to a waypoint before ejecting?

[warm quiver]

AI don't follow waypoint objectives*

[topaz locust]

The medusa in Carrier Duel will return to and land on the carrier. It's possible that the AI is failing to see the carrier as a suitable landing site and then concluding they have to ditch, which is a bug. Also, AI pilots will follow objectives so long as there are not enemy targets visible they have weapons with which to engage.

[hardy linden]

yeah, I'm pretty sure only the Ifrit is marked as carrier capable

other aircraft don't get landing assistance

[hollow path]

The Cricket has a short enough landing run that it just needs to be able to see the carrier, I think. That is, think the carrier will actually work.

The Compass is probably more complicated. It's landing run on the Hyperion basically requires that you either come in a little slow and land hard, or that you use the ramp to make your final slow down. It's very tight.

[topaz locust]

ah, actually, the AI does consider its weight when finding a long enough runway, as well as if a carrier is moving fast enough. It's possible they're ditching because they're carrying too much for a carrier landing or the carrier is standing still.

[hollow path]

Do they consider headwind?

[topaz locust]

Seems not in airbase selection, only when actually performing the landing. The wind is used primarily in physics and has noise from turbulence pre-applied, so that would need to be modified for picking runways

[hollow path]

Damn. Was gonna say, you could simulate the carrier's movement by creating a 32kt headwind.

[glass marlin]

a maximum load Cricket (4x pab250, 2x7x lynchpin, loaded 50cals, full fuel) can recover without incident. not sure if a Compass can do the same

[rocky gorge]

any fix for ai using only crickets?

[final pulsar]

have less of them available in the HQ inventory

[candid abyss]

the cricket in my mission only has internal guns equipped

[indigo valley]

Select the aircraft in the editor and you can change its loadout in the menu.

[candid abyss]

i know, my point is that it should be light enough to land and not ditch

the carrier is standing still though