manic gyro
<@&1152306856635682886> Sol Badguy. New player, only ~30 in game hours. I've got a few combos in my fingies, but I struggle finding my place in a fight. I feel like I get zoned out into my enemy's effective range and I get counter hit trying to force my way in.
If anyone has some exercises I can do in the practice tool, or better advice, I would appreciate.
quartz lintel
Your title and message describe two different issues, and I'll talk about them seperately.
Improving defense:
This is pretty character specific tbh. Getting good at defense starts by learning what the opposing character can do, then trying to figure out what the opponent will do, and adapt midmatch. I can answer questions about specific situations, but you'd have to give me a specific situation
Approaching zoners:
Sol has several tools to approach zoners but the problem is that they're all pretty committal. You've got things like Night Raid Vortex which is death if blocked but can help. bandit revolver can create RPS from a distance but you die if they guess right. Bandit Bringer isn't that great.
Generally, vs zoners a good place to start is dashblocking, approaching carefully in order to get in range of your moves like 2S and 6S where you can make them block something and start the Sol Badguying
fair granite
Playing Sol and getting in is a matter of patience and learning how to dash block good
Unless you wanna be a maniac and use stuff like bandit bringer (big overhead leaping punch) or night raid vortex (big slidey uppercut) to try and brute force it
As for defense mashing is a good strat but you got to know what button to mash
quartz lintel
To be clear bandit bringer is kinda ass (still has uses) but nrv is actually a decent risky approach tool
fair granite
Generally either 5P, 2k are good options
quartz lintel
there's also ol reliable
winter socketBOT
Move svv was not found!
View the moves of a character by executing /moves.
quartz lintel
bruh
winter socketBOT
quartz lintel
ol reliable
fair granite
To be clear bandit bringer is kinda ass (still has uses) but nrv is actually a d...
BB leaps over lows that beat nrv and NRv beats AAs that stuff bb
quartz lintel
bandit bringer is the anti air bait though
fair granite
Use em together and you get what I like to call "idiot neutral" (aka, the fun neutral)
fair granite
bandit bringer is the anti air bait though
That's if you do a jump in then JC it into BB
fair granite
Use em together and you get what I like to call "idiot neutral" (aka, the *fun* ...
Only problem with this strat is the opponent can counter it by literally doing nothing and waiting because all of sols specials are minus*
quartz lintel
my 6P timing is messed up I get hit and die
quartz lintel
Only problem with this strat is the opponent can counter it by literally doing n...
BR is rps but otherwise yes
fair granite
you can also just. Jump. Bandit bringer
If they start to do that I think NRV is safe to throw because its safe on air block?
Cause they got a fall down after ir
fair granite
BR is rps but otherwise yes
True but the risk reward on it is abysmal
Best you get is a HKD at 2S distance
Worst case scenario 2/3s the time you eat a CS combo
quartz lintel
mhm
fair granite
Unless you have meter
quartz lintel
yeah if you have meter its mix for days
fair granite
even though it's pretty fuzzyable if you know what to look for
But yeah going back to Sol defense you generally wanna mash buttons like 5P, 2k, with the occasional 2D or 5K when you have a opening of some kind
Generally most characters are minus after doing a special move because they don't have cancels off it* unless it's a slower startup special, then those are usually around 0 frame advantage or even plus, but you should be able to mash on those things too on startup
Really my advice is just kinda experiment to see what you can or cannot mash on
5p- for when they're point blank
2k-for when they're a bit away
These next 2 are a little more risky
5k-is like 5p but you can get better rewards off it, and it's a better anti air, only issue is if you whiff you're gonna get hit cause it has stupid high recovery
2D- lets you kinda cheat through pressure sometimes because it low profiles so if characters like to pressure you with moves that don't hit low you can change cha slide under it and sweep the leg
Then there's the ultra risky 6H mash, which is only good in the hyper specific scenario of someone being able to hit you with a disjointed plus on block move like pots Garuda or GLs behemoth typhoons from a range where none of your normal mash options will hittem
It's got pretty fast startup for how long the move is but it's so abysmally slow to recover whiffing it means you're again probably gonna get hit
Or IG it's also useful in situations in general where characters are outside your normal mash range, but again it's risky as hell
manic gyro
@quartz lintel Sorry for the scope, in my head they seem related. To me, a strong offence is vital for a successful defense. IE, if my defense was stronger, I would not be zoned as effectively. Perhaps GGST just doesn't work like that, I'm still figuring it all out. Thanks for all the replies btw!!
"Getting good at defense starts by..."
That makes sense, kinda of a pointless ask in hindsight. Best way to learn is by doing, yeah?
Dash blocking! I have a bad habit of dashing with ->-> instead of a button. I'll add that to the routine.
@fair granite
"you generally wanna mash buttons like 5P, 2k, with the occasional 2D or 5K..."
I do hit confirm 2K->2D a lot, then j.H into whatever. I forget 5P is fast as hell, I almost never push my P unless it's for gun blade lol.
Thanks for all the attention y'all. A lot of this is going into my little book.
quartz lintel
so doing 664 to dashblock isn't wrong per se
I at least personally have a problem with the dash macro where I press the button and 4 too close together and backdash lol
fair granite
<@689234049499398248> Sorry for the scope, in my head they seem related. To me, ...
The nice thing about 5p is it's fast and Mashable
So your timing doesn't have to be perfect
5k when you get used to mashing is prolly better cause it leads to better payouts cause of it's better gatlings, but comes with less margin or error
manic gyro
Any interest in scheduling a time to just beat me up over and over? We don't have to be on a call or anything, just having a wall that won't let me do dumb stuff would force growth I think. It's also cool watching strong players lol
fair granite
I mean sure I could prolly fight you at some point
The nice thing is that I'm at like the precipice of average and actually kinda good myself
I'm not the goal per say moreso a step on the journey 
manic gyro
Thanks! Every step above me is a goal 🙂
fair granite
Tho people like gates, lys, or seri (I see you lurking there) are like, good good if you want that sort of fight
For reference this was when I had a set with lys
fair granite
And this leads into another point
Just keep playing cause that's how you learn, it's less about the destination and more the journey
shy wind
super active community
also I'm down to run some and provide advice sometime
I play sol as well
lastly
this page is incredible for learning the basics of sol
and has fundamental concepts that translate to all levels of play
fair granite
Yeah dustloop is always a good resource
manic gyro
Dustloop is cool. This is also a cool site I found, but the data could be out of date
https://ggst-framedata.onrender.com/
shy wind
it's a cool website, but it doesn't seem too applicable
I think it just looks at the minus frames of a given move by your opponent
and then selects every move from your character that has faster startup
so, for example, it'll tell you to close slash after blocking ky's projectile
which isn't exactly feasible in a real match
fair granite
I mean
If you IB it point blank