SNK Post-Match Discussion

[fickle plaza]

#1021190333771558962 then ask for someone to review your gameplay in that category

[unborn kestrel]

Never mind, it shows up now. Weird

Appreciate the guidance!

[fickle plaza]

@tall geode any advice

[tall geode]

Cycle your options more. All your characters have crazy ass cross ups but if it’s every time it’s easier to sniff out. Think you faked me out and went same side only once with Isla might be wrong tho

Also you can’t trip guard everything (he says not being able to do it), like I get it. Huge reward off a successfully done trip guard but hops will get you

Other than that looked pretty good. Safe pressure, good mix, nice use of SS, cashed out pretty much every time you could and didn’t gamble too hard on DP

Now you’re obligated to tell me what you think about my play, but only good stuff I don’t want to hear about the negative shit

|| all cap let me have it ||

[fickle plaza]

Honestly I hate you, how dare you adapt to my isla with Elizabeth reflect shield? toxic! Idk you played pretty good like always. you’re lucky I ran out of health! I can understand the yuri struggle with accidentally jumping over your opponent and looking goofy, however there was times you could’ve killed my character if you did the right combo like I get it the inazuna drop is cool but just kill me!

[scarlet delta]

“Honestly I hate you” 😂

[fickle plaza]

Like it was crazy seeing you do run up close C into inazuna drop to end it or just in general for most your combos with her it was like seeing doomsday kill Superman! In terms of disbelief

And you also stole my yuri color and you put it to ft5 to mess with me

[fickle plaza]

Oh yeah also when I’d get hit with a short hop or a jump in it was because I’d try to stop the hop or air pressure by using 2A buttons because in other fighting games I can anti air stuff like that so it Carries over not because I’m trying to trip guard I actually minimized doing it

For your information mr smoke🤓🤓🤓🤓

snorts

adjusts glasses

Also isla and luong 2C got me killed trying to anti air with them!

So if I looked like I was trying to trip guard it’s cuz of that

There was a moment in time in our match when you were yuri and you were jumping around and I was like “bro imma just wait and trip guard his ass if he wanna keep jumping over me” and then I hit a luong qm soo faast and it was probably the fastest I’ve ever hit a qm without messing up like dawg maybe I am sonic fox

[tall geode]

Bro idk wtf my problem is right now but I’m dropping that combo left and right. It suuuuucks and that’s why I’m doing the easy one. But point taken

Yeah that QM had me S H O O K

It was ridiculous

[wheat oyster]

@wise nimbus how the hell do I know what's safe to press in neutral and what's not

[jolly badge]

Who do you play?

[wise nimbus]

well what gives u high reward for low risk

jump ins, pokes, etc

[wheat oyster]

Rock, Haohmaru, Terry, in that order

[wheat oyster]

But it feels like whenever I throw out a poke or go for a jump-in, it always ends up getting stuffed somehow

[wise nimbus]

dreamcancel is a rly good website for telling stuff like frame dats

[wise nimbus]

u gotta understand how to poke, u cant just flail and throw out 30 hitboxes at once

[wheat oyster]

Well no shit, I'm asking how the fuck I'm supposed to poke safely

[wise nimbus]

chill dude im just trying to help lmao

[jolly badge]

Idk much about Haoh
Terry and Rock aren't my best chars
But maybe I can help

Patch is right tho, I personally like to see it as game of trial and error
If you're doing a move and getting punished, stop doing it
If your opponent doesn't know how to punish or if you lab it and see that you're actually safe, start abusing it

Rock far C is amazing poke, and is cancelable into specials, like the Reppuken, that will probably leave you safe-ish

I like to do Reppuken into the Super Punch to get in safely
It uses one whole bar, but if correctly spaced, should leave you safe

2C is an AMAZING Anti air, I use it a lot
Way easier than trying to DP

[wheat oyster]

You're telling me things I already know. This ain't my first fighting game, I know I'm not poking safely and I don't know how to poke safely. I said that I don't know how to poke safely and want to know how to do so and you said "Well, you're just not poking safely"

[wheat oyster]

Is Super Punch 214C or 236236K?

[jolly badge]

236236K

[wheat oyster]

Gotcha

[jolly badge]

You can do 236A 236K for the shortcut

[wise nimbus]

its rly expensive tho, i tend to not use it personally

[jolly badge]

If you get to your opponent before your reppuken, you're not only safe, but plus

[wise nimbus]

for rock i prefer to space like 214A

[jolly badge]

Yeah, it is
I use it a lot because my Rock is usually not on point

[wheat oyster]

Yeah, considering I have Rock on point, spending a bar of meter to get in doesn't seem like the most appealling option

[jolly badge]

Amazing option
214A is safe if correctly spaced
Same for Terry

[wise nimbus]

5CD >214A is pretty good as a poke, keeps 214A pretty safe and can hit confirm if the 5CD hits

[jolly badge]

Terry also has that kick special
Crack Shoot, something of the sort
It's safe, right?

[wheat oyster]

I just need to figure out how to space it correctly so that it's safe, but doesn't whiff

[wise nimbus]

learning how to space BK is pivotal for terry yeh

[jolly badge]

I'll be copying that tech
Lol
I tend to do 5CD, Reppuken

[wise nimbus]

light bk is well spaced when its just under or around half screen, and heavy/ex is a lil below full screen

[wheat oyster]

The B version is -1, D is -2, and EX is -5, I assume those are at least relatively safe

[wise nimbus]

ye but crack shoot is slow

its pretty good in a spot where ur opponent wants to jump tho

[jolly badge]

It is, but some people have trouble dealing with it in neutral
They wait for BK

[wise nimbus]

such as when ur spaced out in the corner

[jolly badge]

Rock j. CD is also very important for his neutral
Quite slow, but very good once it comes out

[wise nimbus]

i mean they cant rly wait for light bk, its unreactable iirc

[wheat oyster]

Can you cancel blowback on block?

[wise nimbus]

yes

terrys 5CD also is a low crush

so its RLY good

terrys best pokes are easily 5D, jD, jCD, 5CD, 5B and 2C

[wheat oyster]

Do you have to space the blowback for a 214A to be safe or can you just sorta let it rip and be safe?

[jolly badge]

Yeah, true
I don't play Terry
But when I fight against him, I tend to fish for BK
Cuz I can punish it with Shermie command grab if I block

[wise nimbus]

rocks are more or less the same minus 2C

[wise nimbus]

its a lil bit of spacing but i think point blank its only -4 after 5CD

so relatively safe

[wheat oyster]

I tend to use a lot of 5D and 2D as my main pokes, just because those feel natural for me to press as pokes

[jolly badge]

You can, but mind that CD is a slow button
You might get interrupted rather than punished

[wise nimbus]

i play a shit ton of terry

so ik these things haha

[jolly badge]

Lol
Cool!

Shermies and Angel main
Also Team South Town

[wise nimbus]

also yea be sure to use 5CD sparingly as theyre both rly susceptible to counterpokes

[wheat oyster]

Makes sense

Is there anyone who can help me with figuring out what to do with Haohmaru?

[wise nimbus]

i have 0 idea on haohmaru

however theres a channel on yt called KofXV Replays that has vods on top players of every character that u can take notes on

[jolly badge]

Hm...
Haohmaru is a not very common character
I think maybe @smoky parcel can help

[smoky parcel]

@worn arch plays him

[jolly badge]

What I understand of Haoh is that you should play very neutral, maybe even defensive
Kinda like SamSho
Fish for the big hits and big combos

I'd actually be very interested in playing him if I had Team SamSho
Maybe someday if I actually buy them
I just don't care much about Nako, nor Darli
Darli is cool tbh, but Idk about her gameplay
Doesn't attract me so much

[smoky parcel]

but u play Billy

[lofty radish]

Onemanfan plays him. You can also search for Sonichackedyou. He plays Haohmaru and is a consistent top player at the weekly TNS online tourneys

He has some really good pokes

@torn dagger plays Haohmaru as well

For Rock, I like to fish using far C and if that confirms, I do ex elbow and proceed to use my biggest combos but i use him on anchor

jB is a fantastic air to air button for rock. Beats almost everything. Jump D is a good jump in button

Easily confirms to close C

Almost all his special enders leads to safe jumps so you can pressure easily

[tall geode]

Rock j.CD is slow? That’s news to me

I don’t use Hao but I play against a really good one. Its lots of neutral hop C, stand C at safe ranges. Fake fireballs mixed with real ones. And his overhead slice special is also plus on block. You do need to get comfy hit confirming DP > super. Just remember he doesn’t need a ton of touches to get huge damage so play patient and wait for your opening. He doesn’t want or need to be up close the whole match @wheat oyster

[wheat oyster]

What’s the fake fireball input again? Is it 236[P] or is it something else?

[unborn kestrel]

236A.AB

[jolly badge]

Wait
What about Billy and Haoh?

[jolly badge]

I mean, compared to Shermie j. CD and Geese's, it is a bit slower
Not much, but it is a bit

[wheat oyster]

Gotcha, so basically the same way Rock can cancel his DP on hit or block

[unborn kestrel]

Indeed

[abstract swift]

Heavy DP only, not light

And use Rock's j/hop CD often but expect to lose air with it

Hao is really cool. If you can structure your combos around his DP/66DP, you get really good mileage with that move

It's like... the strongest? Second strongest DP?

[wheat oyster]

I’m aware

[wheat oyster]

It’s the strongest

[abstract swift]

I must have missed the context somewhere hahah

Play Hao like you would terry I guess. Get the confirm, dump the damage

[wheat oyster]

Nah, it’s fine, I just didn’t specify which version of his DP, implying that I thought you could cancel every version

[abstract swift]

I'm quite interested in Haoh too so if you get him down, pls teach hohoh 🙏🏽🤞🏼

I think only team Garou has a break mechanic, unless Haoh does too. I haven't dabbled with him enough to find out.

[wheat oyster]

Haohmaru does a similar input to fake his fireball

236P~A+B

[tall geode]

He can still hop CD in reaction to opponent full jumps is what I meant. That means it’s fairly quick

But yeah if you’re comparing it to Shermie well, all j.CD’s are garbage next to hers

[lofty radish]

Shermie jCD is “decent” per @unborn kestrel and @wanton sierra hehe

[tall geode]

Haha yes full body coverage and if it whiffs just command grab is decent I guess. Hope you can trip guard in 1F online!

[unborn kestrel]

It's got a bigger hurtbox and can be challenged with air-to-airs now

[tall geode]

That trade lol

There is no advantage in that

[unborn kestrel]

Okay, maybe I just suck.

But I'm losing so many air-to-air and air-to-ground trades with the j.CD

I honestly think her j.D is a better button.

[tall geode]

If you trade with them they get knocked down how is that disadvantageous?

[unborn kestrel]

Because I don't trade

I get hit

And they do not

[tall geode]

Then you’re pressing too late. With j.CD you gotta know you’re doing it on takeoff

You can’t change your mind mid air

[unborn kestrel]

Like I said, I just suck

lol

[tall geode]

Nope

Shun is the same way and it took me forever to figure it out

Especially off a hop I basically have to press it at the same time

But yes if you full jump without a plan and then press it at the apex of your jump then any button will beat yours

It’s another thing we have to notice because some players really liked to A2A because hyper hop makes it a possible to do on reaction

[unborn kestrel]

yeah

[tall geode]

Every character has a good A2A button. So what I do (when going for a traditional jump in) is have my plan (prob j.D) but also have my finger ready to press my fast A2A button if I see them jump in reaction

For example Andy’s are famous for doing this. Making them pay for trying is so worth it

[unborn kestrel]

Oh, interesting.

Are those off full jump-ins or hop-ins, or both?

Nevermind, missed "traditional jump in"

[tall geode]

Full and super jumps because no one is reacting to a hop with an A2A

Well, mostly no one lol I’m sure some can

[unborn kestrel]

True enough

[tall geode]

For example Shun j.C is a trash jump in button but it wins lots of A2A because his hurtbox is fully behind the hitbox. Might possibly be disjointed too

But yeah every character has these buttons

[unborn kestrel]

Interesting

[tall geode]

Yeap

[wanton sierra]

Untrue actually

Unless the person is straight up not blocking, the j. CD will make the character guard and start the grab invul timer

And bc Shermie's j.CD is so fucking huge, it has to be on the upward of a full jump and at that point the opponent has half a second to react if they aren't in the air also

Don't get me wrong, it's a great button, but after who knows how many hours I've sunk into playing Shermie at this point I've seen, lived, and died to its weaknesses

[smoky parcel]

Y’all just doing it at the wrong time

I’m a shermie main

[wanton sierra]

How riveting

[smoky parcel]

You telling me you vertical j.D every air to air ?

She legit has j.A and B

[wanton sierra]

I didn't say that

I was just saying j. CD isn't the button is used to be

[smoky parcel]

still slaps

[wanton sierra]

Yep

[smoky parcel]

Orochi Shermie jcd

[wanton sierra]

Now that's a button

[scarlet delta]

Orochi Shermie, otherwise known as “The Cooler Shermie”

[smoky parcel]

Is she really cooler though ?

[scarlet delta]

yes

[fickle plaza]

She got better colors

And a better voice even though they the same actress

[smoky parcel]

Ok

[scarlet delta]

Ok

[fickle plaza]

High pitch shermie annoying asf

[smoky parcel]

ok

[scarlet delta]

ok

[fickle plaza]

oK

[jolly badge]

I'd say hotter

[scarlet delta]

I always come out on top

[smoky parcel]

Shermie overrated anyways

[scarlet delta]

LOL

[jolly badge]

Kyo overrated
Iori is the real deal

[scarlet delta]

stop BITCH!!!!

They’re both so cool 😦

[smoky parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/ic0niclisa-throwing-tomato-gif-23144061

[scarlet delta]

Can’t believe Luna said this

[smoky parcel]

Can’t trust a shermie player dude

[scarlet delta]

Just walked my dumbass to the wall and slide my back down and held my head in my hands

You think you know someone but you don’t

[smoky parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/mondays-walling-cry-gif-7810042

[scarlet delta]

👆 me fr

[jolly badge]

LOL
Sorry, but Kyo is the second least interesting protag

Shun ei is...
Just eh

[scarlet delta]

you’re on my list

[jolly badge]

T-T

[smoky parcel]

Really out here spewing anti Kyo rhetoric in front of Kyo Army

Wanted List.

[jolly badge]

I was gonna say "Beat me"
But Daru really will

Lmfao

[scarlet delta]

I will beat you too bitch!!! I’ve done it before!!! I’ll do it again!!!

[jolly badge]

FT5 RN

[scarlet delta]

I have to write an essay also I’m a pussy

[jolly badge]

Lol
I'm jk
I also need to go in like 20min

[scarlet delta]

Both of us had our OS’s ready 😈

It’s okay luna you just said the most fucked up thing anyone could ever to say to me but you’re still the homie

[jolly badge]

But really, in all honesty
Kyo is cool
I just find Iori, K', Kim and Ash much cooler

And I'm only talking about the good guys

[jolly badge]

Well...
Iori Army!!!!!?

[scarlet delta]

Iori Army

[jolly badge]

Now that I look at it, Idk if I can say Iori is a good guy
But...
Eh

Anti hero imo

[smoky parcel]

Wtf is this

Lotta Anti Kyo-ism here

[jolly badge]

LOL
But cmon
You're telling me Kim, K', Ash, Terry and Iori aren't much cooler and more interesting than him?

[smoky parcel]

Nvm

Idc

Kyo is the goat.

[jolly badge]

Kyo is just a high school drop out with a cool jacket and fire powers. He doesn't have a big reason to fight, nor anything that makes him super interesting and cool

Kim fights for justice, and he trains a lot, and he is just as stylish as Kyo, design wise

Ash was willing to have his existence deleted for the greater good, he worked from the shadows and proved to be a hero when everyone thought he was a villain
And his green flames are stylish af

[wanton sierra]

Drop out*

[jolly badge]

THANK YOU
Phrasal Verbs aren't my best friends

[smoky parcel]

Really comparing Kim to Kyo is crazy

Kyo is way better than Ash

Ash literally got erased and brought back for fan service

L

[wanton sierra]

So did Kyo

[smoky parcel]

Nope

[wanton sierra]

Iori too

[smoky parcel]

Nope

Never confirmed to have died or been erased

[wanton sierra]

Wild

[smoky parcel]

Iori was gone anyways but Kyo?

He never caught that kinda L

[jolly badge]

Welp, yes
Shows how much people liked him!
Ash gave his all to kill the big baddie and did it!
Did Kyo beat Orochi alone?
Lmao

[wanton sierra]

Oof

[smoky parcel]

Did Ash ?

[wanton sierra]

Yeah

[smoky parcel]

Nope

[wanton sierra]

Erased himself

[smoky parcel]

L

[wanton sierra]

With Saiki alongside

Kyo had to do that with Iori

[smoky parcel]

What is your point

[wanton sierra]

Idk

[smoky parcel]

Kyo is way cooler ?

[wanton sierra]

I'm just here to instigate

I don't feel strongly one way or the other

[jolly badge]

The only thing Kyo has better than Ash is the jacket

Lmao

[smoky parcel]

Kyo started the flames

Ash is just another

[jolly badge]

I mean, Saisyu came before Kyo

[smoky parcel]

Kyo is the goat

The original protag

The rest are rough drafts

[jolly badge]

Honestly...
Shingo is better than Kyo in my humble opinion
At least he is funny and goofy and cute

[smoky parcel]

Ight

That’s an L take

[tall geode]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen you go for that. Other Shermies do it all the time, on top of the whole cast can whiff an air button and 1F regular grab. Shermie run grab just makes it easier

[scarlet delta]

Just gonna pretend Luna isn’t talking 😂

[timber pier]

Kyo is the dude he smells 90s cool guy he got the bandana

[jolly badge]

Ok, now Daru hates me and Cherry is the only friend I have left

[timber pier]

What do you want more

[jolly badge]

Then again, his design is cool!
I love his appearance
But...
What does he have other than that?
Feats, personality...

[scarlet delta]

Tiago spitting

Kyo Army

[tall geode]

Right?! And the Shun squad

[scarlet delta]

I have the same personality as Kyo

You hate me ? 😳👀

[jolly badge]

Kyo literally has no personality
He just tries to look cool
You are actually cool

[scarlet delta]

we are both actually cool

[jolly badge]

I'll stop talking before I make y'all hate me
Lmao

[smoky parcel]

Ight

[jolly badge]

We still cool tho?
Homies?

[scarlet delta]

😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐😐

[timber pier]

Kyo hás atitude

[jolly badge]

AH
And before you say anything
I know Shermie also isn't the best char lore wise
She actually didn't even do anything besides dying to revive Orochi

[timber pier]

I can understand dont like him

But he hás personalaty

[jolly badge]

But now tell me something else...
How can you like both Iori and Kyo?
I mean, I simply can't like Billy and Joe at the same time

[scarlet delta]

Kyo and Iori are different than Joe and Billy

This is two cool dudes that’s rivalry has stood the test of time and then it’s Billy (cool) and Joe

[jolly badge]

It's not like Marvel and DC or something of the sort
Cuz they are actually both just doing their stuff, I see it like a friendly rivalry

[jolly badge]

Got it...
Y'all just shipp them

LMFAO
JK

I'm out

[jolly badge]

But...
We still homies?

Duncan is a good person
He forgives me
Lol

[unborn kestrel]

The answer is of course the second one

As proven by the Sacred Treasures ending

Chizuru: you know what. Fine. Go screw each other. I'm going home.

And then Kyo went home to his girlfriend and no one ever spoke about the encounter again

[dull bone]

Andy has a break mechanic too

[tall geode]

Same with Isla

[fickle plaza]

Shunei has a weirdass one

You go for the fisty and it just stops the fisty

[fickle plaza]

@abstract swift hit me with it😤😤

[abstract swift]

Good job adjusting to my tempo, I couldn't retaliate lol

That is all

Cursed cross up was really good

Isla mix was good

I gotta find some kinda counter

[scarlet delta]

Lemme know when u do

[fickle plaza]

Should I run luong point since I’m struggling with her?

[scarlet delta]

😳

[fickle plaza]

And that rock corner combo was sick

[rocky bloom]

I'm tempted to come in here and ask for help with losing, but usually I have something in particular
I just suck all around rn 🤣🤣

[fickle plaza]

Bro you don’t like blocking😂

[rocky bloom]

I also have a serious problem taking my opponent's health before losing all of mine

[abstract swift]

@jolly badge is a big fan of that one too. I dropped a nastier combo in the corner oh maaaaaaaan stylish as hell

[abstract swift]

Yeah! Couldn't hurt. Get more comfortable with your buttons, options, how you wanna approach a situation

Get aggressive with the experimenting n see what works

[jolly badge]

Wait
Which one?

I do the same as midscreen

[abstract swift]

The corner Rock combo that includes reppuken juggle

Does good damage. Stylish af too

[jolly badge]

AH
Love it!
Idk if I ever did it tho

[unborn kestrel]

Update: I think I finally learned how to use this

[rocky bloom]

sooo.... I just picked Shermie and spammed jumping CDs.. OCVed the CPU...

[indigo kestrel]

Here are the tips I wrote for @jolly badge Hope someone else finds them helpful or thinks of something I didn't:
You are predictable with your jumps, a lot of times you would block my blockstring in the corner and then just jump right away. With O. Shermie I was able to just do the string and then kick you with f.D. But the bigger issue imo is that you should be hopping over my fireballs instead of full jumping them. I think it's just a matter of practicing hops more, I need to practice that too. I can't really speak for your blockstrings, since I don't play your characters. But with Rock you often ended your pressure with that slow jumping overhead. With Whip I was often getting a free DP for that. It also hit me a couple of times, tbf or I just blocked it.
Some other misc. advice:
We both need to punish rools more. Luna especially loves to roll through us and then either throw or attack from behind. That's not a thing, we should be at least be able to throw her for that. I was able to punish it a couple of times but I found it surprisingly hard xD
About O. Yash's 50-50 Oki off of his lvl 1: Just roll if you see me land it. There is an option select that covers both roll options from a crossup, but neither me nor Niel do it. It's pretty hard to do, but the reason you don't see pros roll out of it is that they play against other pros who actually use the OS. You can also try to reverse DP the crossup, the same side jump is safe though. There was an OS for defeders posted a couple of weeks, that allows you to OS between same side stand block and other side DP. I haven't looked into this, but that might work too.

With Whip, I think most people aren't used to running up to punish her DP. It has a lot longer recovery than you might think. Might be worth practicing.
I remembered one more thing: A couple of times you would run under my jump and end up behind me, which should be able to punish me. But I was able to throw you each time instead. I think you need to hit me earlier for it to work.

Also, I think it's important to acknowledge what you do well: In the last couple of matches Clark was getting some really good reads on my jumping habits with Shermie and air to aired me into the Ex-Tackle.
Your confirms are also very consistent, made me kinda jealous lmao.
Your neutral is also very solid imo, no unnecessary overextending. Figure out how to tick throw with Clark and you should be pretty much set

[jolly badge]

Good advice right there

Banana figured out pretty much all my biggest problems

[jolly badge]

I need to stop rolling...
I honestly am not thinking when I do it
I just do it by impulse
Probably the same for Galtera jumps

[jolly badge]

Yeah, Banana did an AWEASOME job
Follow his advice

[jolly badge]

Yes, impulse, that's the word

[jolly badge]

He really did! Great advice

[indigo kestrel]

Glad you like it!

[scarlet delta]

Oh yeah @indigo kestrel you have anything for me?

Idk if you remember our games super clearly yesterday but haven’t played w/ u ever until yesterday

[indigo kestrel]

I don't remember them that well tbh, but here's what I got: With K' you were often fighting a zoning battle with O.Shermie by chucking (EX) fireballs at me. That's not a problem, but you were a little predictable with your timing. I could often comfortably hop over the fireball and punish you for it. You should mix the fireball up with other options. I don't play K', but I remember Daru doing the 236p, seeing my jump and then hitting me with 6D, which hit me out of the air. I dunno if that is a good option, but that worked really well against me. Other then that I believe you were a little trigger-happy with your DPs on wake-up. The same thing I said to Galtera about Whip's DP also probably applies to you, so maybe check that out in Training Mode. And definitely remember to tech! I got lots of free pressure off of sweeps!

[scarlet delta]

Yeah I’m not really good at getting my reads on the second shell (the 236P 6D move) I need to try and fish for it more

But yeah prolly need to lab whip

[smoky parcel]

Just play her bro

[scarlet delta]

Perhaps to learn

[indigo kestrel]

She's great, lots of fun

If you are the one playing her

[scarlet delta]

She’s very hard for me to beat

Very tricky character

[indigo kestrel]

For sure, but she also has exploitable weaknesses and punishable stuff

I hate fighting her too, ngl. I picked her up to understand her better.

[tall geode]

They always go for cross up. Well pretty much always so be ready to roll

DP her j CD

and bait her DP and then blow her up

Also just be aware of the spacing she likes and get in closer, make them uncomfortable and they’ll (you guessed it) try and DP lol

[scarlet delta]

Yeah getting in against a good whip is my main issue

I’m p good at rolling the crossup

[lofty radish]

Fight my whip! I play scrubby with her!

[scarlet delta]

I do fight your whip 😈

[lofty radish]

My dishonest character

[jolly badge]

I just want to already thank you lol

this is gonna be a long one

@jolly badge
So, tips for Shermie
Honestly, I can't even think of much
What comes to mind instantly is that you are too afraid of her.
I get that she has monster damage, but mind games are a core part of her whole gameplan, I even wrote it on my Shermie Guide there in coaching somewhere. Maybe you can read it to understand a bit more about my usual blockstrings and setups.
If you just sit there, trying to block until I do something unsafe to punish, you will get mixed to death. Ok, if you DP and I block, you're fucked. But staying quiet, blocking, while I'm pressing? You're dead for sure.
Also, you did something very cool today. You always jumped with Rock after certain stuff, so when you got to Geese, I DPed because I was sure you were gonna jump, and you didn't.
So try to bait Shermie attacks. DP and grabs are SUPER punishable. You jump a lot, so I will DP a lot against you. Neutral hopping or something of the sort might make me react wrongly and eat a big combo from you.
Other than that, remember that every pressure has gaps, no exception. And specially MY Shermie relies too much on either sideswitch, punish rolls with grabs, and meaties. So maybe try to observe, and get used to my patterns, so you can kinda predict what I'll do. It's a guessing game, but even when attacking, I'm guessing too. Be unpredictable, so I might start to guess wrong and be punished for it.
AH
Careful with my whiff CDs. I started doing it last week, but I noticed I can whiff cancel CD into Accel for sideswitch, Run Grab for the speed and fast damage, or even DP if I react to your jump.
So if you see me whiffing a CD out of the blue, you can expect a special

You could also ask Daru and Tiago
They fought me more than anyone here
They know my Shermie and how to deal with her

[jolly badge]

I remember reading the guide, maybe I should go find it again. I can see now that accel is actually VERY plus on block ("++") which I didn't think it would be. But now at least I know I can interrupt it, but still inconsistent. With 5f of input delay, I already had to figure out your patterns. it should get better soon? I'll admit : she's one of the scariest fighting game characters I've ever seen. It's just like Tekken : if you don't lab ALL the bullshit, you'll get hit by it FOREVER. or you have to get absolutely DEMOLISHED by it for hours and hours until you can figure out some stuff by just playing.

I'll ask them in last resort 👍

maybe there's a guide on youtube that explains stuff too

@jolly badge
General tips now
You're playing Kof, not SF
You don't need to do short dashes or jump in order to get in.
You can run, you can hop, you can play footsies, lots of character have specific stuff, like command run, or other stuff.

You might be afraid of it, but you'd be surprised by how much just running up and hitting close buttons work.

Footsies in Kof, as I personally see it, is not like SF. Your pokes aren't there just for poking and dealing a bit of damage from mid distance.
When I try to play footsies, my main objective with both Shermies and Angel is to cause a knockdown. Usually with j. CD or 2D.
Because after either one of them, I can get close and start doing whatever I want to do, be it a blockstring that will get you closer to the corner, or just bait for a DP, which will return us to neutral if my opponent doesn't DP.

The important is that the way you're playing rn, you're trying to either jump in for a big combo, or stay put and wait for me to make a mistake. Both very viable options, but if you only got two options, you're predictable, and I can punish you hard for that.

[sinful jasper]

@scarlet delta So a couple of things

K' by far your best character you have the combos down, the pressure is almost there and the neutral as well

Kyo is the weakest character on the team from the matches we played but then again, for all I know today could of been an off day for you with this character it's happens from time to time. I like the use of his rekkas but sometimes you shouldn't finish the rekka on block because you'll be punishable depending on the ender iirc. Once you start doing the first part of the rekka you can start playing mind games with them and make them scare to press because you might finish it or go for delayed rekka pressure.

Iori is like the middle ground were you know somethings about him and other things you tend to neglect for instance you used taco to cross me up a lot which is good but when it came to block pressure I didn't see a single command grab

General habits you sweep to much, you don't quick get up enough and in neutral sometimes you just blindly run in(I know this from personal experience lmao). If you wanna frame trap trying using other normals besides sweep because a good player will just hop over them and punish you for free (sweep is also special cancelable with both Kyo and K' on hit and block so keep that in mind). Also you should anti air a bit more, a couple of my hops in pressure you could've stopped if you did stand A which is pretty effective with all of your characters.

I think that's it

[scarlet delta]

Yeah my kyo rekkas have been very mashy lately tbh I need to chill with it

I’ve been trying to work on Iori command grab as well, I shy away from it because I’ll get a crazy misinput either into super or dp sometimes which would just have me get killed u know but I need to start using it big time

There were definitely some rounds where I felt Kyo was cooking for sure but yeah some where he wasn’t

I gotta switch my order up I think

Kyo, Iori, K’

Kyo needs more play time

[sinful jasper]

It's alright sometimes I still get crazy miss inputs when going for Iori's command grab but the more you practice the motion and go for it in matches where you can gets dp or super won't come up often if at all

That's not a bad idea either

Just getting more playtime with Kyo can be a good way to get more comfortable with him

[scarlet delta]

for a while people here said he was my best but something switched off in my brain recently I guess haha

[sinful jasper]

It happens lol

You probably got to comfortable playing other characters that you forgot how to function with Kyo on the team

[dull bone]

I dont remember much about our fights, but I do know that the kyo mixed me up a bit, and that K' was pretty cracked

[sinful jasper]

It happened to me not to long ago with Iori because I was switching between so many characters to find who I want to round out my team

[tall geode]

Some things I noticed during our set:

1. Playing footsies/neutral does not mean just throwing out attacks willy nilly at half screen or further. Know the range of your moves and don’t press until you’re within that range. Go back and watch the replays where Mai was on point. Turn the inputs on and come back after you see what I was doing. That is footsies

2. Anti air me my friend, with either a DP or 5D. Again, go back and watch the replays and you’ll see I was begging you to do it. Literally jumping over and over again. If you swat your opponent a couple times they’ll think twice and then you have them on the ground where your characters really shine

3. Chill on the wake up/run up DP. I get it, it worked a couple times. Go back and compare it to the number of times it didn’t. Ask yourself if that’s worth it. Not saying don’t it at all, but that was a little much

4. Back to neutral. It’s ok to slowly work your way in, it doesn’t have to be won all at once. Again it worked a couple times but how many did it not? 60 ticks is plenty of time to get it done

5. Daru talked about A2A so I won’t, but really try and understand what he was saying there

6. Great job hitting your combos! When you got the hit you made it count. Good stuff keep it up

You’ve definitely improved a lot, I know it’s tough to see when you’re viewing it through your own eyes but you have made big strides. It was great to play some sets again @dull bone 🔥

[dull bone]

Thanks for le feedback, and yeah I have noticed that I threw out a lot of moves that served zero purpose and that I need to work on a lot of that kinda stuff. I think the main reason why I never dp'd you when you kept jumping over me was because
a. The side switching kept killing the input (lmao)
b. On the times I would try, the dp would completely whiff and then I would eat a huge combo.
I've I've trying to cut back on dps as a whole because they're getting me killed more times than I'd care to admit.

And in response to the other stuff I wanna say I'm trying to improve on my grounded approach game but I think I've become a bit to predictable in my run up habits and such. Its definitely rough for rn cuz I don't know half of what I'm doing, but a lot of times when I threw out random stuff, I was testing things out and trying to see what worked and what didn't.
For example:
Joe 3C can work sometimes as a "toe check" and also side switch if the opponent hops. But I won't use it in combos or anything.

I definitely think I improved, but like you said, there's a ton of stuff that needs work and refining, but I think a lot of that just comes with more practice, slowing down and realizing what exactly I'm doing.

But aside from all that, at the very least, I enjoyed our sets today, they were very fun

[tall geode]

Yeah you nailed it. Try and move with a purpose and know what you’re going to do, before you do it. The opponent should be the one who’s surprised by the attack, not the other way around lol

And yeah it’s good to experiment in casual sets, there’s nothing on the line so may as well see what works, what doesn’t and what needs more investigating. Definitely some enjoyable sets! Thanks for playing with me

[smoky parcel]

@sinful jasper I just watched all of our matches, but there's not a whole lot I can really tell you. You didn't play 'bad' necessarily but its small things that got you. You have good pressure for you characters but once I broke your momentum it was very hard for you to recalibrate. I know the King matches were absolutely nuts cause she can be super annoying to go against. I do like how you cycled your attack patterns and whatnot while I was defending though.

[sinful jasper]

Ahh ok thanks daru

My issue is that since almost everyone on ranked/casual doesn't have good defense I just tend to do a lot of re hop pressure and not enough frame traps

which got me anti aired a lot of the times in our matches which causes my momentum to shift

So I think moving foward I'm gonna use the online matchmaking a little less and discords like this one a lot more

I also feel like I get to impatient on defense as well so I wanna see if I can fix that as well

I'm hoping with heidern he can teach me that patience I need while still being able to rush someone down when I need to

[smoky parcel]

Yeah we’re pretty live here. And we have a few new ppl that have joined up as well so that’s a plus. I’ll be around too if you want to play.

[smoky parcel]

Yeah the Heidern was looking pretty good too. Could definitely benefit from giving yourself a breather after the onslaught.

[unborn kestrel]

Folks i faced the past week: Are my weaknesses still the same weaknesses from last week (poor defense, no low confirms, bad wakeup habits, bad pressure management, among other things)? I feel like I'm progressing too slowly and not adapting well at all.

Another one of my friends just passed me by and is Champion rank now while I'm struggling to make commentators retain their composure on-air. So if you have any is insight at all, no matter how brutal, it is appreciated.

[unique fjord]

@unborn kestrel pinging you just for visibility

...if I may, I think your biggest area for improvement right now is going to be your mental. I haven't played you in a while so I don't have any in-game feedback for you, but it just seems like you're being suuuuuuper hard on yourself. I know we're all hungry and trying to be the very best (like no one ever waaaas), but it does sometimes help the most to take a step back and remember why you keep coming back to get beat up constantly. It's still supposed to be fun, even in losing, but comparing your progress to everyone else's or worrying about what some commentator said on air about you isn't helping you improve.

Sometimes I just full-send my entire bar on Andy on EX elbows to see if I can cheese one for a combo, just to put a smile on my face. Some nights I'll drop an entire character I'm maining just to play one I think is neat, even if I literally never confirm a single hit with them. Some days I'm tilted and I'll just beat up a level 2 CPU and pretend it's Bala or some shit and I'm the greatest KOF player alive. Point is - detach yourself a little from the progress and the self-deprication and find the very fun video game underneath all the losses and frustration. You're building your own brick wall right now by constantly shitting on yourself. Give yourself a little grace and some room to just have some fun with it.

[rocky bloom]

All I have is Be Confident. You're really good and you work your ass off training.

[abstract swift]

@hot willow looked really good out there! That could have gone either way, I just made the most out of my touches on a more consistent basis throughout the sets. Dump the meter (get a reliable ex in there like tatsu), that way you'll get that split second longer to think about what kind of meter dump you want to do

Other than that, keep the pressure on! Went a little too defensive when I got more pokes in but keep fighting for more touches

Especially with the characters you play, gotta be willing to risk it for the biscuit

[hot willow]

You’re absolutely right. Thanks for the advice

[sinful jasper]

My two cents is that you play to slow/timid in neutral like you don't wanna advance and start offense which hurts your block pressure, for example you auto pilot 2B 2B sweep in any scramble situation because you aren't comfortable or willing to try something different. Now that doesn't mean you should play reckless, what I'm trying to say is you gotta be more active in neutral.

[abstract swift]

Be aggressive for space, but don't cut loose that you leave yourself open for a punish @unborn kestrel

[sinful jasper]

Yup exactly

I still struggle sometimes with being to reckless which get's me punished

[tall geode]

Me too

[tall geode]

Forget about everyone else, comparison is the thief of joy

[tall geode]

On wake up it seemed like you mashed throw a lot (or something) because my meaties were hitting pretty frequently. We really have to pay attention to how close the other character is, if they are right on top of us then wake up throw is a good option (especially because they might be going for a throw as oki so we’ll tech it)

When I had you cornered I would back off my character to the timer to cut off escape routes. Rolling forward is a scrub killer technique it does not work on people who are looking/have practiced punishing it

But with that extra space comes extra options. You can use a long poke or CD to create more room to escape or counter attack

Same goes for the run > roll forward. That’s not a thing, sure it might work sometimes but so does run up DP, doesn’t make it a good idea

I felt like your combos with D-Lo were way more on point, good stuff there. Also saw a lot less wake up command grab with Clark that’s also good as people will try and bait that for a huge punish

Shermie was good but sometimes you spent too much meter iow did a level 1 > level 2 where the level 2 killed by doing the remaining 70 damage or whatever. Just do a level 2 and save the extra bar

Kind of along the same lines as what Zero said but it feels like you’re not experimenting very much. Come up with a list of things you want to try for your characters and then pick one for each and try and work it in when possible

Last, I think if you took it easy on yourself and just played the video game with us while trying new stuff out you’d be better off and would get the results you’re ultimately looking for

[timber pier]

From our one hour session this is what I got from you.

From the last time we played it was something like a month, you evolved a lot on your muscle memory and what you can do in the game, by saying this i mean you can go far if you have the time and patience for it.

Jumping - For me is the most important thing about KOF, go Lab and learn how to Hop hyper hop consistent, it will be a hard ride in the beginning but once you know how to do it your gameplay will be so much better. When you got that right doing Jump in combos and being plus on your moves is what you want.

Wakeup options- I noticed you DP, super or go wake-up grab , sometimes just have a little patience and block and try to see for what your opponent goes for depend on who's is playing, you got other options then DP or throw , Block or your being in trouble and want to go back to neutral game , block CD or guard cancel roll to get out of the corner.

Hitting button's: I agree with what @tall geode said just don't be full screen and throw fireballs do burning knuckles just because looks 😎 , press your keep away button's with Terry for example your anti air, use your shatter strike for people who like to jump a lot like me 😅.

Combos- Here is where you shine you know how to combo with your FF team, but learn just to do better and easier punishers to get more damage out of them.

Joe- I'm no expert in all off your charachters but your Joe looked like your best character, you killed 2 of my charachters in the first game almost ocv, and the Way you we're playing him seemed like you knew what you had to do.

Andy - Seems like you need to lab more with him you need to work on his BNB combos you have only special into level 2.

Terry- Good ⚓ overall you got the combos with him that you need with Andy, don't abuse DP Don be afraid to throw some ex moves with him instead of waiting to get a Hit always, cause like that I will be playing keep away

[timber pier]

Personal advice - Consider play someone else on your team that has more options to open people up since they all Play a bit more of the same and don't have many options, but play who you like of course 😉

[timber pier]

https://tenor.com/view/terry-bogard-snk-kof-king-of-fighters-fatal-fury-gif-22696076

[dull bone]

Haha, I get what you mean, but I already did that when I swapped bm for joe😅

[unborn kestrel]

@tall geode @sinful jasper @abstract swift @rocky bloom @unique fjord

I appreciate the feedback, and thoughtful responses. I'm writing this all down and will attempt to incorporate it into my play this coming week. When it comes to practicing neutral outside of matches, do you string together openings in training mode to get used to re-pressuring? I hate that I'm becoming predictable, overly cautious and scared on offense and wish to better correct this.

[abstract swift]

I'm not the best at re-pressuring after a light block string. To my understanding, this comes with conditioning the opponent. So if you're aggressive for space, example (2a/b, 2a, sweep [common frame trap]), the opponent will be more likely to block if one interaction you decide (2a, 2a, dash/hop/jump/cross up attempt)

[unborn kestrel]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding the difference between re-pressuring and active offense

[abstract swift]

Me I rotate between 2b, 5b, 1/2 light rekka with geese. Safe blockstring, I get a ton of space, I reset neutral. Now when I decide to continue pressure, I 2b, 5b, hop or heavy DP. Both of which give me advantage, I stay plus + the cross up with heavy dp, and I continue pressure

Continuing a reliable, safe re-pressure (like a universal hop/low block string) isn't a bad idea too. Before you know it, you're chewing through their guard meter

If you cycle through options, you're either forcing the opponent to press, use meter for a GC option. Hopefully it's tight that they don't SS

If all else fails and they're blocking everything, I just fall back tbh. Rely on active movement and pokes until I try again

Try zoning, try DPing, let them come to you. Contest the hop space so they jump instead, least you have more time to AA/dp/etc

I think by now you'll notice KOF favours the person taking the initiative. Doesn't have to be offensive initiative, but the more active player tends to have favour

You get a couple good pokes, people start scrambling and taking riskier risks (lol, I'm guilty of this too), that's when you can get the opening and nail it home

[unborn kestrel]

I see
So establish an opening
Get pressure
Establish pressure strings
Get your offense

Right now I'm establishing an opening
Getting pressure
And then backing off when the string gets blocked

Which is a problem

[abstract swift]

Yup! The umbrella term is offensive pressure but more or less 🫡

It's not the worst idea, but letting the opponent breathe too often, imo, suggests passive-playstyle, to which a greedy opponent (such as myself) will take advantage of

But if you stick with backing off, but cover your space aggressively (anti hops, AA, good neutral/special usage) you can keep the space you're comfortable with and selectively choose when to attack and when to keep space

[unborn kestrel]

Maybe switching Iori, who is better with creating these kinds of offensive opportunities, would be a good way to practice

[abstract swift]

Now you're catching on 🫡

[unborn kestrel]

I see

[abstract swift]

Great Iori's are fucking ninjas man

[unborn kestrel]

Very good. I appreciate your insight. I can't wait to explore these options

[sinful jasper]

I don't think you need to switch to iori to figure out offensive pressure imo

Like you can do with both clark and shermie really well

not sure about Dolores because I have no clue what kind of character archtype she's suppose to be

[tall geode]

Thanks for being gracious, hope what we all shared was and is helpful. Re the above: I think these terms are somewhat interchangeable but here’s an example:

I do a block string ending in a special move, then immediately go for a rehop into more pressure

OR

I do a string ending in 2A then immediately go for a rehop into more pressure

Which one is better and why?

[unborn kestrel]

B, because of better frame advantage + less time for the opponent to react?

Also, tighter quarters space-wise?

[tall geode]

Yes exactly (well the first part). Staying on the attack while -5 or whatever is a big risk

It only works if my opponent doesn’t know it’s their turn/doesn’t take their turn

If we decide to end in a (safe) special we don’t have to back off but should be ready to block

[jolly badge]

Smoke classes are good
Lol

[unborn kestrel]

For sure. Frame advantage is key, it feels like

[tall geode]

Absolutely

Thanks Luna 🤘

[tall geode]

🐒💩

@livid knot

[livid knot]

[tall geode]

When you get a chance I’d like to hear your thoughts from the other night

[livid knot]

You did good, just needed to become self aware of some of your habbits

[tall geode]

Reflected a bit on last nights set and here’s some stuff that stood out:

Heidern: seemed like you were really into using his big buttons to out range me. This is definitely one of his strengths, but he’s open to whiff punishing. If you look at the replays you’ll see a lot Shun fireball and far C (his is ridiculous) to catch the whiffs/poke outs. I know you’re learning him so there’s that to consider as well

Iori: not much to say here. Very strong play, good understanding of your options and at what spacings they are optimal. Good punishes, safe pressure very dangerous character in your hands. Also some of this MU comes down to me having played lots of Ioris

Kim: I don’t know much about this character but you make him work. I’m starting to learn some of the spots I shouldn’t contest (which I’m sure other opponents of yours are as well), so I’d say that’s when layer 2 kicks in. Aka, “I know that he knows” and you switch to another option. What those options are is up to you

Nice patience on wake up, I tried baiting lots of reversals and you maybe did half a dozen in the nearly 2 hour long set we played. Good stuff @sinful jasper

[tall geode]

You have my attention sir. Lemme see the mirror

[livid knot]

🪞

[tall geode]

lmao I meant can you be more specific? It’s tough to be objective with myself, especially when so many matches came down to a single interaction at the end

[livid knot]

I was mainly talking about the back roll after tech roll.

[tall geode]

Yep, and I felt like after you pointed it out mid set I curbed the tendency. Think I’m more looking for what you noticed during the Yuri Ralf matches

Isla is so new that every second she’s on screen is just a teaching moment so I’m kind of divorced from any type of results seeking at this stage

[livid knot]

Its honeslty hard to say with yuri because she can go wild and still get rewarded.

Remember you kept trying to super but dp'd like 3 times in a row and i still got hit

I was already conditioned to jump.

And its hard, especially for ralf to jump over her fireballs.

Because she has enough time to anti air still.

[tall geode]

This is the thing about the anchor battle tho, “going wild” is super risky especially against a 1 touch character. When I had her up front there’s no meter on the table to make mistakes costly. All of my characters can 2 touch with a bar and a half, that’s kind of my thing

[livid knot]

Not to mention Yuri flies all over the screen because she jumps so fast and far, plus akuma air fireballs

[sinful jasper]

Thanks smoke this helps out a lot, definitely gonna experiment more with heidern's buttons so I can see what spots I can and can't press them

[sinful jasper]

I thought about it and a couple of things you should work on:
After throwing a light fireball with joe and andy chase after them if they roll you can throw punish them or get a real punish with a heavy button
quick get up a little more because it's very obvious when you wanna delay tech dp on wake up
work on your pressure so try experimenting with things like re hop pressure and frame traps
other than those things above you have a solid foundation already @dull bone

[dull bone]

Thanks, Ill try and work on that👍

[livid knot]

@smoky parcel deterioration

[smoky parcel]

Reinvent yourself mid match. Get creative, be silly, have fun.

You saw how I was playing with Iori

I was literally acting a fool

but it worked

he's also very OD

so that's a factor

[livid knot]

Im just saying i was a bit mentally exhausted. Teeeeensy bit

[smoky parcel]

I get it

[livid knot]

And when I dont think, I dont act a fool, i auto pilot

You know?

[smoky parcel]

Tbh idk how often I auto pilot on this game. Maybe I do not realize if I do, but I literally just start picking hella characters so maybe this is my cope solution to this. You have a strong team. You have a solid grasp on pressure options for your characters, often leaves me to ponder if I lack knowledge on the matchup at times.

With all the knowledge you do have with your characters, you should be able to try some wild things you wouldn't usually be able to

[livid knot]

Yeah just i noticed the 2nd match against your team K' that i was starting to not cut it, because i went from drip, to drop.

Swag, to corn.

[smoky parcel]

Pretty consistent Leona combos though

for the most part

[livid knot]

There was a couple drops but its not the execution, its the rest of it that degraded.

Like 2nd match i couldn't even approach your whip

Im not complaining that i suck, i just noticed that im auto piloting and i needed a break

[smoky parcel]

Yeah see I was trying out something else with her cause the previous match I figured out some stuff she could do maybe

[livid knot]

Because that what I do after playing a lot. I do / did that in sfv in ranked and i woukd just lose elo

[smoky parcel]

Yep. I believe this same thing has happened to me back on Tekken as well

[livid knot]

I started auto piloting in that game and was getting whacked for it

[smoky parcel]

You ever think about grabbing some new characters?

Other than Clark

[livid knot]

I do.

[smoky parcel]

Athena.

I knew it

[livid knot]

Thing is when i get on its usually to play. And if not im on cod or something else. I just need to make the time fir it.

Tbh Dolores is one

Heidern i tried but hes kinda boring. But he gof buffed

So i dunno now

[smoky parcel]

he lowkey is kinda boring

[livid knot]

Athena sure

[smoky parcel]

Dolores is not boring though.

[livid knot]

Geese if i owned him

[smoky parcel]

Yep. I get it now

I see it

you're burnt out from KOF ?

[livid knot]

Thats how Rugal started to feel

[livid knot]

NO

Not at all

I guess you could say im burnt out at the MOMENT because it started to show in my gameplay.

Like a part of me wanted to keep playing and then a part of me was like "yeah you need a break"

[smoky parcel]

Yeah dude do your thing. I’m not really stressing it if you need a break it’s cool

[livid knot]

I know i know

Yer cool

[smoky parcel]

I just think now you should join the Iori Army.

[livid knot]

Nah ide rather play Kyo then that emo dude

But I'm not sure rekka is for me. (Then again i played nrs games)

But those games are different

[smoky parcel]

Even Better.

[livid knot]

Who else is on my list...

[smoky parcel]

Kula

[livid knot]

[smoky parcel]

you got SF4?

[livid knot]

Not downloaded. You got sfv?

[smoky parcel]

Yeah I do

I played with some friends like a lil while ago they got me to hop on there

[livid knot]

Nah its okay.

[smoky parcel]

I like SF4 too though

but SF5 is easier

[livid knot]

The PROBLEM with Re5 is that i had started playing it a while ago with somebody and I was using guns i havent upgraded yet. (You CANT do new+ with no upgrades, theyre permanent)

But I'm not sure if we're ever gonna continue.

[smoky parcel]

yeah there's a slightly higher chance I have no data for RE5 anyways. Would have to start over

Lost a lot of my save data a while back

[livid knot]

But me, I'll be forced to use all my upgraded stuff

[smoky parcel]

what's wrong with that?

[livid knot]

Too OP

[smoky parcel]

Put game on Professional

[livid knot]

Have you beaten re1 remake?

[smoky parcel]

yeah with Jill

I was replaying with Chris way back

Need to buy the game again

[livid knot]

Wanna help me? Or is that too boring.

[smoky parcel]

help u how..

[livid knot]

I can screenshare

[smoky parcel]

oh like this

[livid knot]

Im playing blind.

[smoky parcel]

I was about to say I can link you a walkthrough lol

but its better to just go for it

[livid knot]

NOO

[smoky parcel]

It's been a while since I've played but can lend a hand if I'm around I guess

[livid knot]

Only help ive gotten was the wiki explaing how the dagger works

[smoky parcel]

which other RE have you completed?

[livid knot]

4, 4 remake, 1 campain of 6 with my friend, 7, 8, 2 remake (Leon)

On hardcore my first run on 2 remake btw

[smoky parcel]

Nice. I would offer to play 6 but it's up to you if you want to deal with the shenanigans.

don't know if you wanted to beat 1 first or whatever

[livid knot]

[tall geode]

Play in tournaments or public room more often. Forces adaptation

[tall geode]

She’s so cool

[livid knot]

What next? MAI is cool?

[smoky parcel]

will take that as a NO

[smoky parcel]

interesting description for Athena

[tall geode]

Also cool

[livid knot]

Wanna try Mercinaries on 5?

[tall geode]

She is

[smoky parcel]

Ngl this has never crossed my mind and I have a history with her now lol

[smoky parcel]

we can

[tall geode]

I like her she’s got it all and with execution can be absolutely insane

[livid knot]

I'll fire up 5, we'll do what you want. Gonna use the restroom tho

[smoky parcel]

I didn't know you meant tonight I legit closed my PS and everything, my bad dude

I was about to finish watching this show I been half ass trying to watch

[smoky parcel]

I still have not done a crazy command grab corner combo

Her midscreen grab one is weird sometimes though

[tall geode]

Shermie Asessina has a mean Athena

She does all the swag shit

[smoky parcel]

I like to hear it

Like to see the characters being used in creative ways

she is definitely one who can do a lot of stuff

[livid knot]

Go ahead

Im cool with that. I thought YOU meant today

[smoky parcel]

nah we gotta hop on SF||4|| tho one these days

[tall geode]

6 this weekend? @livid knot you too

[smoky parcel]

I legit forgot about that. Yeah I'll be on there. New download or same beta?

[livid knot]

I like sf4 im not good at it tho

Never got sweaty with that game.

[smoky parcel]

lol wtf you think I am at it? Haha it was my first time ever playing it like a month ago. I legit haven't played it in a lil while at this point

Last time I played actually Luna played and another friend I got did too

[tall geode]

Not sure will have to check

Think it starts tmw tho

[smoky parcel]

Nice, just wish they had the other characters but whatever

[scarlet delta]

Play Yun

Join the army

[lofty radish]

It’s next weekend not this weekend. @smoky parcel

[tall geode]

Ah ok thanks

[lofty radish]

You can still play the demo though

[smoky parcel]

L Demo

[livid knot]

Yes

Probably during Smoke hours

[abstract swift]

@sinful jasper yo! I'd probably just put a little variety in your pressure & blockstrings. You move really well but the pressure is very linear. Most of it was the same. I was getting hit by it often, yes, I'm just pointing it out! Something I'd have to lab with but I don't play much these days, so I just hop on and fuck around & find out 😭

Iori is like, your best but you also take the most risk with him too. Combo and follow up pressure after the knockdown is definitely there, so if anything I'd just get more comfortable with playing him at hyper hop range? You were either smothering me or afar throwing fireballs. Don't sprint so much into 2b as well, like that was your primary way of getting in and starting pressure.

Idk anything about Kim so I can't help much there with neutral or setups

Oh, and cash out! Use the meter dump lol. Idk who you primarily have with anchor, the way you play Iori suggests he's your main anchor? And you're finding out with Kim?

That frame trap (?) with Heidern is nasty though. 2a into cmd? Sheesh. Mix that up with added buttons or a hop n that's a nice blitz

Iori I think the only setup (from what I saw) was the taco combo after the knockdown, maybe add more onto that?

Kim: ???? (Emphasis on idk shit about Kim)

Krohnen I'm just used to and sick of his BS cuz of Bubbles lol. You and him play Krohnen the exact same

So I don't mess around with that tomfoolery hahah

[sinful jasper]

Iori was my anchor it's most likely gonna be heidern

Kim is just anchor for the time being because most people have told me he's my best character if not it's Iori like you said

[abstract swift]

Just from what I saw, I'd say Iori, Heidern & Kim. I don't know much about Kim but from how comfortable you played each, I'd say Kim is rather new for you, or at least you're not comfortable yet with everything he can do? I saw some frame traps(?) In there but other Kim's have done the same thing so I snuffed that pretty quickly n then you were quite passive with him

Heidern I like as your point tbh! You could probably slide him mid, you used his meter pretty well

[sinful jasper]

That's the thing Kim has to be played passive because his buttons are stubby like yuri lol

and his neutral isn't the greatest either so I have to pick my spots with him carefully

[abstract swift]

I've heard that. Which begs the question why people play him anchor when he's shit at even contesting? Wouldn't it make sense to put him mid?

I guess he's like... you get the one touch, it's death but idk

[sinful jasper]

that's pretty much it

[abstract swift]

His combos are nasty but I just don't think he can compete well at anchor if that's the case

Don't listen to me though

Iunno shyte

[sinful jasper]

He nukes your health bar on the anchor slot

I like him mid because 1.5 bars is all he needs

any extra bar is nice but not needed

and I'd rather have fight characters like kyo then let heidern fight them

even though i didn't show it ex dp with Kim can punish a lot of the things kyo can do

he can punish 236A no problem

[abstract swift]

My Kyo was whack today lol I couldn't confirm shit. It was just rekka & high/low pokes hahah

Goose was on one tonight

Heidern I really like as your point, I'd argue heidern Kim and Iori for the order

[sinful jasper]

yeah I'd probably try that order out first before the one I had before being Iori kim heidern

It's so hard for me to team build with Kim because he's hard slotted into mid

So I feel like sometimes my options are limited

[abstract swift]

You gonna commit to Kim? I think you can make it work. Maybe try playing him like Terry. Get some big pokes and then cash out on a negative move or a good hop in

[sinful jasper]

I've been playing Kim since he came out so their is no turning back for me lol

I also really like that character so I don't think I'll drop him anytime soon

[tall geode]

Disclaimer this isn’t advice for you or anyone just chiming in here because you touched on something I’ve done recently. Shun got moved from anchor not because he’s bad (his metered damage is amazing) but because Yuri has superior neutral, comparable damage (the caveat being higher execution) and a DP. She can also threaten a comeback with a couple bars and some clean touches

The caveat to this, is that I can’t play her as carefree as I could on point or even mid. Bubs can attest to blowing her up off one mistake more than a few times. Ultimately tho I think the swap will pay off

[sinful jasper]

I think I've improved a lot with heidern this week but I think I still need to iron out some stuff like consistently anti airing with his flash kick (same goes for Kim) and try not to be impatient on defnese

I also need to start changing my offense and neutral approaches still

But what do you think @smoky parcel

since we just played

[smoky parcel]

be mindful of the timing of your counterpokes with Heidern esp his far normals

I've sat and watched you cycle your offensive options with Iori and Kim

so I don't think that's the issue

[sinful jasper]

I thought I was with heidern but I guess not thanks

[smoky parcel]

you got some good stuff

I don't think it's as easy to crack them open like it is with Iori though

[sinful jasper]

Heidern can open people just doesn't have the fast buttons that Iori has

[smoky parcel]

Yep that's it

the speed

Should try changing the pace of your gameplay with Heidern if you don't see the results you want

[sinful jasper]

Like instead of turtling with him I should go on the offense instead sometimes right?

Or vice versa

[smoky parcel]

This is fine

been trying to figure out Meiten a bit as well can be kinda tough when using charge characters for me at least as I do not play them much

[sinful jasper]

I'm use to playing charge characters but it's the speed of the game that is throwing me off

Which is weird to say because arcsys games tend to have really fast neutral lol

I'm also trying to figure out what team order I like the most

for now I think it'll be Heidern Kim Iori since I'm more comfortable with Iori in the anchor slot

[smoky parcel]

Iori is definitely a safer pick for anchor

Your whole team has explosive dmg

[sinful jasper]

Yeah for sure

If Kim didn't have to be hard slotted into anchor I definitely would play him point

So here's hoping SNK buffs him if we get a patch sometime soon

[smoky parcel]

buff what

haven't really played as him like that tbh

[scarlet delta]

far D cancelable

[sinful jasper]

Buff is probably not the word I should of used more like get some quality of life changes

But a far cancelable normal would be nice

[scarlet delta]

imagine LC into Hangetsuzan

He would be top tier broken

If you could confirm into D hangetsuzan from lights (deranged idea) he would be top 5

[sinful jasper]

Ok so a couple of things
sweep: even though you did stop doing it half way through the matches we played you mashed on sweep way to many times wether it was to continue pressure or to counter poke, Like it's ok to frame trap with them once in a awhile but as you saw I can cleanly just hop over them. And if you are gonna sweep atleast special cancel it if your character can
Learn to respect a safe jump: idk what button you were pressing but a couple of times especially with dinosaur when I went for a safe jump with heidern and Iori you got bonked on the head(it also happened with ramon and geese as well)
Patience on defense: Learn not to challenge as much with dino sure you can get away with mashing 2A to stop someone but with geese and ramon you were letting those rip and I can only assume it's auto piloting at that point since dino is your point character
@dapper river

Another try and change up your oki with dino as well

stand CD is ok but that shouldn't be your only option

Same goes for command grab

Like after a knockdown you should change it up a bit

[rocky bloom]

@dull bone If you were at all serious playing with me watch the wakeup DPs

[dull bone]

Ngl, I was mostly playing for fun

I can't be a sweat all the time lol

[rocky bloom]

Ok good, I wanna see some big combos tomorrow, or even attempts 😂

[dull bone]

Assuming I even make it high enough in bracket for them to stream my matches😅

[scarlet delta]

I’m prolly not gonna play so just watch out for zero and Lou and the random evo winners that’ll enter

[dull bone]

Well, lou said he ain't gonna enter from what it sounds like, and zero is gonna be a menace if we get matched up

I like to think I stand a decent chance though

[rocky bloom]

I just want to see you style on somebody 😂

[dull bone]

Me too

Tell ya what though, imma land a 4 bar terry qm on someone

For the fans

[scarlet delta]

For the fans

[sinful jasper]

I think you'll do well dyl

I think my only piece of advice I can give you is do not hold onto all of your bar just for combos

[smoky parcel]

@dull bone Jump with intent. You full jumped in a lot to start your offense, which can land you in big trouble as your opponent can easily anti air this. Watch your jump heights, cause when you miss your air to airs, you may get punished. Try to vertical jump more often when you go for air to airs cause sometimes you overcommit to a jump and it doesn't go in your favor.
With Joe be mindful that 6B does not crouching opponents! So watch when you throw this out on block. Also, counterpoke with Joe more often, and zone them, especially when you're playing him point. Use his long ranged far normals to check your opponent in the midrange like far A or D. Watch out for hops/sweeps cause KOF triangle. Really this applies to all of your characters, just have to use the proper corresponding buttons to poke back at them so they aren't comfortable just running up on you to start offense. Andy 5D can be a preemtive jump/hop stopper for example. Protect your space, but don't overcommit and put yourself in some shit. If you have the life lead, you don't even have to do much really. Just secure the W.
Do not want to overload you with info, but utilize defensive meter spending as well to get yourself out of certain binds when a comeback is possible. Guard cancel blowback to stop pressure, and GC roll to get out of telegraphed blockstrings like Iori axe kick into fireball. Stay on the move, but be observant and relax yourself. You have the combos and stuff down with your team, but keep grinding those light confirms. I saw the Andy run up 2B stuff that was nice. With Joe don't forget he can do like 2B 2B 5A shit like this, cause his far A can cancel into his command normals! Use this to make it easier for those confirms. I want you to know I am very proud of your progress.

[dull bone]

🫡

Fr tho I need to chill with the jumps

I find myself fishing for stuff way too often and it barely ever pays off, yet I keep doing it

I have found that when I try and slow down and play more patiently, I see more and react better than when I'm panicked and start mashing jump normals to try and get some kind of leverage.

So ig I gotta work on my mental game too😅

[vagrant plaza]

I hate being garbage. My habits of rolling have come back to haunt me.

[scarlet delta]

Same dude I’m bad at the game straight up

[lofty radish]

You gonna play sf6?

[lofty radish]

Who punished you for your rolls?

[vagrant plaza]

nah

[vagrant plaza]

Lou. He has a point, it's a rookie mistake. Got my ass handled in ranked.

wait. Oli, why do you ask?

[lofty radish]

Just curious. Who else did you play against?

[vagrant plaza]

Rait, Tyler, Phil.

[lofty radish]

Who’s Phil?

[vagrant plaza]

My bad, I meant Pinkishgold

[lofty radish]

Oh how did you do against them?

[vagrant plaza]

This is the first time in months that I've played, so it's expected of me to lose.

And get back on my habits of rolling and relying on supers.

[lofty radish]

You almost OCVed me in our first match 🙂

[vagrant plaza]

im just so fucking mad still, I can't get these confirms.

it's been a year and nothing.

and now I've down ranked to 11.

[lofty radish]

Which confirm?

[vagrant plaza]

anything that's Joe and Kyo

or anyone for that matter. Terry's moves are slightly slower.

forget it, Oli. I'm just raging right now.

[lofty radish]

Are you getting the jump in hits?

[vagrant plaza]

I'll figure it out.

somehow.

there's combo guides and training for a reason.

[lofty radish]

Okay we can talk tomorrow when you had a chance to regain composure

[vagrant plaza]

ok

[tall geode]

Watched some matches, and I think the main thing I saw was a lot of 2B getting hop punished, for all your characters. I’m not sure what you were going for, but maybe take a look back and see if you can figure out what the goal was in pressing that. AFAIK it’s not really possible to trip guard well spaced hops, unless I just fail to hit a button

I thought you did a good job of playing keep out with Heidern, while still going in. The Kim pressure is definitely real too. Iori is tough because everyone is really familiar with the MU, so I don’t have any specific advice but maybe @smoky parcel or @scarlet delta could take a look if you had some specific situations for them to go over and maybe brainstorm a solution

@sinful jasper the only other thing I can say is something I’ve been thinking about lately (for myself), and that’s it might be worthwhile to switch it up and pick a stubby character to try and tighten up your neutral, while also getting a better sense for the spacing they prefer

I have a type lol so just kinda went through hell getting out poked for months and months, but am now starting to feel like I can navigate and thread the needle through some of these huge buttons. That said I’d probably benefit from learning a grappler or other big body character to check my movement privileges a bit 😹

Hope this helps lmk if you have any follow up questions and hopefully I can give a good answer

[sinful jasper]

Ok so a lot those 2Bs where to check if you would try to advance (like start your pressure by running) and technically you did but you kept hopping in those situations and I didn't learn my lesson at all
In terms of learning a stubby character I felt like Kim is stubby enough with his buttons but that was the goal with Yuri so maybe I will go back to her sometime this week, right now my goal is to get more comfortable with heidern anchor even though he'll end up being my point character

Thanks as always though @tall geode I always appreciate the advice

[knotty oriole]

SNK Post-Match Discussion

[latent elm]

@sinful jasper so I dropped combos a lot today. I'm not worried about that. I wanted to ask if it's even possible to just guess wrong that many times. Like I understand you're definitely better than I am. But I feel saying I was unlucky on a lot of my interactions just doesn't sit right with me at all

There were some like terrible things I did, like DP, mis space a jump or 2, and flub inputs repeatedly. But other than that I was confused on why I lost that hard

Also big side note, I'm thinking of just dropping Joe. Since it really felt like he did the least or at least a lot less than Shingo. Which makes no sense to me

[sinful jasper]

Yeah it's ok to guess wrong that many times

I've guessed wrong x amount of times and lost characters for it

It just happens

[jolly badge]

Maybe today is just not a Joe day
I thought about dropping Angel SO MANY times because some days she OCVs non stop and sometimes I feel like she gets perfected and my 2 Shermies have to do everything alone

Specially in days when I feel like playing Billy and he does an AMAZING job, I wonder if I should make him part of the main team and leave Angel as secondary

But that is not the right decision
Sticking with who you like and making them work is almost always the right answer

[sinful jasper]

Yeah today could of just been an off day for Joe

I've had plenty of off days with Kim (which if you ever wonder why I switch to Krohnen sometimes now you know LMAO) and I know how you exactly feel

[latent elm]

Alright, this absolutely could be tilt talking. But I feel I gotta be playing KOF really hot to do work with Joe. But as of recent I noticed 1. I can't open people up. It's like block string run up 2B, hop jD or empty hop low. Maybe a throw if it comes out. 2. I just don't have the mindset for zoning still. Especially in KOF where to me it's like the most ridiculous thing but it's easily countered, at least when against my Joe. Then 3. Not related to Joe. I play a lot of characters so I'm still trying to see if anyone feels better.

Like Rock feels great in my point position I'm real new to him and can't combo consistently to save my family but I still play him because he makes sense.

So I'm wondering if there's a character like that for my anchor position. Joe is it right now but since I've started back he just is "flashy combo" "raw level 3" and that's like it

[jolly badge]

Let's think of the possibilities then
Shingo Mid is doing good, right?
Joe point? I feel like he is a very good point due to his big combos with low meter usage and the zoning

But who'd be your anchor?
Rock? I feel like he is a good anchor, but do you feel comfortable enough with him to have him there?
What if you move Shingo to anchor?
It might not be the best suited position for him, but if he is your best character, he probably should be there

[latent elm]

Alright, I've tried Joe on point multiple times but I feel he just died horribly like consistently. While maybe getting them to half or a little bit less on a good day. And it's because I can't ex fireball. I'm a scrub at using the regular fireballs. I put them in my regular gameplay as what feels like filler but they don't do much. And I've tried to DP the jump but I think I've missed like every time I've tried it since coming back from SF.

Shingo I feel isn't a character for my anchor spot just because he either he's a victim or he's a killer. With like no in-between. I really don't like him on point since I cannot combo without the EX. Or rather I can but it's wildly hard for me to do on a crouching opponent so I gave up on learning it.

I just picked up Rock but he feels great with and without meter. I'm just still learning the combos

[jolly badge]

I get it...
I usually play Rock mid or anchor because I feel like he gets A LOT from meter
I tend to do Reppuken into Super Punch to get in easily, and his big combos deal a lot of damage
Plus, Install Climax is great if you do at round start
So I feel like he is a very good anchor

Who's your current point?
Liz, right? Think she's doing better than Joe would in point?
And why?

[latent elm]

So yeah my main team is Liz, Shingo, Joe but I feel like my Liz doesn't do much without meter. Either they get vortexed and die or I just lose and have like only one bar on Shingo. It more comes down to I was questioning really hard how good my Liz is

[jolly badge]

By what you're telling me, I think you're having problems with your point character, whoever it is
Cuz all of the 4 in question, Joe, Liz, Shingo and Rock usually are good options for the point position
Maybe you're just having problems adapting their gameplay to it?

[smoky parcel]

Play Terry anchor

[tall geode]

@latent elm just a heads up, zoning isn’t particularly strong in KOF. All the movement options mean that the zoner is one good read (super jump) away from losing 50% +. Focus on getting in and staying in. The occasional fireball to add to your opponents mental stack is where it’s at

[latent elm]

I just struggle on the point war consistently, but I just really don't feel what makes Shingo and Joe especially good as point characters.

[latent elm]

Terry is not a character I'm interested in

[smoky parcel]

What about Ryo

[latent elm]

I'm super weak to zoning and real bad at spacing in KOF and making guesses on when to jump in on fireballs. So it feels the only 3 options I have "jump, roll, block" never feels like enough

[latent elm]

Definitely not

I have anchor characters around

Right now I'm learning Rock and am trying to see if it's worth it to bust my hands to learn K'

[smoky parcel]

It’s only worth it if you like playing with them at that point. But yeah K is super good so why not, Rock too.

Rock was like the first character I had stick around when I got into this game. He can do whatever needs to be done

[latent elm]

Only thing I dislike about K is Ein trigger

In neutral

[smoky parcel]

What

[latent elm]

I gotta add that part. My brain is smol

So thinking about the follow up while trying to react to the opponent etc just makes my head smoke

[smoky parcel]

Yeah you need to relax

You ever like playing platformers? Like Mario or something ?

[latent elm]

Yeah

[smoky parcel]

Think of KOF like that. Piece by piece. Like a platformer. Take each action and interaction you make, and process them individually. You don’t have to be psychic, but it does benefit you to be wary of habits that are created between yourself and the person you’re going against. I was showing a friend of mine couple days ago how to do Blue Mary slicer bnb. But like you don’t have to try to take on everything at once in a heap, there is a sequence and rhythm.

[tall geode]

Your best option against zoning will depend on spacing.

Full screen? Hop, jump over, or roll

Half screen or closer is when it’s time to super jump, it has to be on a read tho, if you go on reaction it’s too late and you’ll get AA’d

This is where observing what your opponent is doing is important. Are they content to stay back and toss projectiles, or are they rushing you down after? What speed fireball are they throwing? This is also why ranked/tournaments are difficult, we have to make all these judgements and decisions in a FT2

[latent elm]

My experience with KOF is it's absolutely the hardest game I've ever willingly played. And it's because it feels you gotta be like 6 steps ahead before the first round begins. Since throwing a bad button leads to a catastrophic round start. Or just guessing incorrectly. So I, in good conscience, can't just play the game. Like I think it's a good time to throw a fireball I get hit with a level 2. That's happened to me like 4 times in total and now I gotta analyze their bar, their distance away from me, they current stance (like jumping or standing) and their habits. And thinking about all that just to throw a fireball. Where all I get is like a small bit of damage. Isn't worth the trade off. But this is my thought process like in game for about everything that's not combos I'm used to

[smoky parcel]

Tyler you can literally go the fuck off. You’ll get there eventually cause this ain’t gon come easy. You’ve already made great progress since joining. Respond to me with a positive affirmation,

[latent elm]

This is me being positive I promise.

There are sometimes when I drop the thinky off at the character select and just play. When it works, it works. When it doesn't, it doesn't. So I gotta think when it doesn't work.

I'll say with confidence, when I'm in the zone yeah I'll say I do pretty well. I'm not gonna argue that

[smoky parcel]

@dull bone yo bro. Mind your jump heights. If you jump past me and miss your attack, you're at a disadvantage. If you jump attack to high, you're at risk. Stuff like this, make sure you're hitting those jump ins as deep as you can so you don't just give up your turn on a successful jump in.

Also, like knowing what to do on oki. Cause you get knockdowns, but often don't know what to do after. You can do a lot of things depending on what the opponent does on wakeup. For example, they like to wakeup grab a lot, can space out a slight catch em on wakeup with an attack. Also can do safe jump for like wakeup DP stuff like this. Just some extra stuff that I think you're about ready for to up your game.

[dull bone]

Yeah, I've been noticing in my replays that I jump a ton and I'll press a button at the height of my jump and completely miss out on a jump in

And I don't quite know what to do on oki for andy and terry
I know bm can do some sick stuff on knockdown, but for shotos, I just draw a blank aside from maybe trying to bait a dp

[tall geode]

Good old 2B works for pretty much everyone

And safe jumps like daru mentioned

Just those 2 will take you a long way

[dull bone]

I think I tried to run up and 2b but I must've done it too late cuz I got wakeup thrown every time

[tall geode]

That means you’re too close gotta be a few more pixels back

[dull bone]

Oohh gotcha

[latent elm]

@smoky parcel are other DPs faster than Joe's?

I thought 4 frame was standard

[smoky parcel]

thats the fastest yes

[tall geode]

Nope. They are different speeds Shingo is 7F for example

[latent elm]

And that's the startup

So 4F is like rare? Or is Joe just kinda left to dry on that front

[tall geode]

Once you get meaty 2B dialed in it will take you so far. Same with safe jumps but it’s really satisfying to blow up wake up grab mashers. They then start to block on their wake up and you know what option that opens?

[tall geode]

It’s different for everyone, also the strength of the button alters startup. Same with invincibility or not

Like Yuri 623A is 4F and full body invul but her C isn’t

Trade off is the C version recovers a lot faster

[dull bone]

Throw?

Or command grab

[tall geode]

Yupp to both

[latent elm]

I've read it and such but it's real rough on reaction to figure out which DP to use when my fireball gets jumped over. Since I definitely still don't know the spacing of when they're gonna land on me, over me, or in front me

Since Daru definitely blocked some anti air attempts

[tall geode]

BM especially has some nasty meaty/cmd grab oki guessing games in the corner

[tall geode]

He might have been doing a safe jump

[dull bone]

Yeah, I kinda do that with BM now and she can cook

[tall geode]

It’s a 50/50 but if they guess right it’s a bad time. No such thing as no risk in KOF tho

[dull bone]

My favorite thing to do will be to run up block to bait a dp, or to run up empty hop light confirm

[latent elm]

Just safejump over a fireball? Is that possible?

[tall geode]

People stop DP’ing run ups past a certain level, you’re just giving up initiative imo. If they poke into pressure instead you’re in their world now

If you’re running it should be for a good reason

[dull bone]

Yeah, I noticed daru wasn't falling for the bait so I had to switch up my strat

[tall geode]

Well no, safe jumps are off HKD’s as I’m sure you know. But if he hopped (or jumped) it at the correct spacing then yeah he’d have time to block

[latent elm]

I just had to ask to make sure, my apologies for a dumb question

[sinful jasper]

No such thing as a dumb question

[latent elm]

Otherwise it's hard to judge to that distance, unless that's just part of the fireball experience

[sinful jasper]

Yeah I'd say it is

[sinful jasper]

To answer your question @latent elm no losing to Iori means your bad at KOF just means you suck at the match up

[latent elm]

Really? Forgive me for asking or even arguing. What does Iori do that's not just regular KOF stuff? He just seems like the Narukami of this game.

[sinful jasper]

@dull bone got ocv'd like 6 times by Iori straight that doesn't mean he's bad at KOF

[wanton sierra]

@latent elm @dim shadow forgor to ask earlier but would it be OK for yall to give ke your thoughts on how I played today?

[latent elm]

Hmm, I can't really give any criticism from my end. I thought the game was pretty even and fair

[wanton sierra]

Well then, what do you think my strongest aspect was?

[latent elm]

Pressure and presence

I'm gonna edit all our games together if anyone else would be interested in giving their thoughts for both Cien and I

[wanton sierra]

Presence?

What do you mean?

[latent elm]

So, I say that but like. You're character made it so I didn't want to do X or Y. Like King, you definitely showed that you will meet me in the air with a light buttons. So it's not exactly free to just jump at King. It's probably not the right phrase for it but it's the first one to come to mind

[wanton sierra]

I think I get it

When I got you in the corner with Beni I was definitely cooking

I didn't even know I could do all that tbh

[latent elm]

Had NO idea that Ben had an air drill

[wanton sierra]

Since '94

[sinful jasper]

Legacy character

[fickle plaza]

I like how you change you rotate your jump arcs and the timing to them I should take notes

[wanton sierra]

Wut?

I do that?

That's typically me trying to hop every time if I'm being honest

But hey if it's a strength I'll take it

[lofty radish]

@nova current @compact arch use this channel

[lofty radish]

@compact arch as mentioned I think neutral and defense are the biggest areas that you can work on

A good first step is to understand the normals for your characters. See what their ranges are and how safe/unsafe they are and how you can use them as pokes

For example kyo has a really strong jCD that you can abuse in neutral. Use that more instead of throwing out specials in neutral which are more unsafe. Be careful especially with just throwing out DPs which are super unsafe

Some specials can be made safe though so those are the ones that you can use in neutral but understand their ranges and when to use them

Being patient and defending can also be good though KoF is more offensive oriented as well. Learn when to defend and when to pressure

Your execution with combos are very clean though and that is a great skill that a lot of people wish they have. I don’t have that

I think Sylvie is your best cause you use more pokes and normals with her

She has a lot of safe normals and specials which suits your really well

[wanton sierra]

Oh we got a new new player?

[lofty radish]

Yes

[wanton sierra]

Can't wait to see their progress

[lofty radish]

Also if you can’t hop yet, that is something you can practice and learn. It’s a must have skill

Let me know if you have any specific questions!

There are a lot of beginner players here in this server that you can train with

Rait isn’t a beginner but you should def play with him. He’s available almost every day and he makes a great training partner

Rait likes to spam safe-ish moves. This will help with your defense and your ability to read and punish

[wanton sierra]

Rait is the kind of guy to to spend 2 level twos to mix you up with the level 1

If that makes sense

[compact arch]

Yeah, i've seen it but i can't pull it off yet

I also use a lot of specials and supers out of nowhere, specially with Kyo, because i do the inputs on accident in between rekkas and combos

[lofty radish]

No worries, you’ll get used to the inputs

[rocky bloom]

Common with Kyo, I always get DPs and supers when I'm just trying really hard to bodega

[scarlet delta]

You have to hit the bodega nice and easy

You can’t mash it

It’s like water

[lofty radish]

Are you asking rait to stop mashing?

[scarlet delta]

I’m just saying hehe

I’m a masher too

[lofty radish]

@rocky bloom actually tried being patient and was blocking and waiting to take his turn against waffle yesterday cause waffle was even more yolo than him

[rocky bloom]

The thing with Kyo is.... it works! 🤣

Waffle pressured me from round start with Kyo and I had a tough time dealing with it

[lofty radish]

Block!!!

[rocky bloom]

I didn't pay $14.99 to block

[lofty radish]

Well nothing is gonna beat that kyo DP

[rocky bloom]

It was great practice to slow down and punish

[dull bone]

||Power Geyser beats it||

[rocky bloom]

@dull bone I'm coming for you.

[lofty radish]

Wow! Rait learning Mary!!

Rait gonna be a Mary and Clark main

[rocky bloom]

I'm just going to pick her and see what CPU level does to stop her

I did do the 1st trial

[lofty radish]

Neutral hop or jump

[rocky bloom]

We've been through this before. I know how to avoid her but once she starts it doesn't stop

People say it does but won't tell me when the gap is

[lofty radish]

Which move? Rolling has a gab between the high low if you block it

[fickle plaza]

After any normal tbh

Except sloicer

[lofty radish]

You neutral hop if Mary does the fake string of 5C 6A jump grab

Slicer is punishable. Block low

[rocky bloom]

what if she jumps and grabs you while you're neutral hopping

[fickle plaza]

Depends on the spacing

[rocky bloom]

I can punish slicer

[lofty radish]

She can’t grab you in the air

[rocky bloom]

I know how to avoid her but no one avoids every thing every time

Like with Dyl, I have strategies and as long as I don't drop she's dead

but if I drop... 100% health gone no matter what I do

Like with Clark, the only way I'm gonna learn to beat her is to be her and watch how I get beat

[lofty radish]

Mary has really fantastic hop arc so dyl likes to pressure with hop ins. Mary can also catch you with slicer if you’re careless

[rocky bloom]

I can stop the hop in with Maxima 3C but he can't stop anything else

[lofty radish]

Because Mary has to approach you for her offense, you can zone her but she can use slicer so use someone with ground fireballs and maintain far distance when zoning not hop distance cause they can hop in and combo you

Dyl is susceptible to dive kicks since he loves doing jump ins so you can jump back and if he jumps forwards, dive kick him

Robert has a relatively safe dive kick that works really well for this

Chris has a dive kick too remember that

[rocky bloom]

chris was beating her up bad lol

[lofty radish]

I’m guessing there’s an element of unfamiliarity there too

Have you tried learning whip

And just doing jump C or jump CD a lot? It works for me

[rocky bloom]

yes but I cannot land a single move with her. It gets blocked 100% of the time when I use her

[lofty radish]

Gotta learn the cross up jump C into close C

[rocky bloom]

I think I just have to get better with broken moves

I caught BM a few times spamming Luong tatsus

[lofty radish]

Yeah master Luong 2B 2B Ex tatsu

It’s similar to Robert

Use cd a lot with Luong

Same as Ralf

[rocky bloom]

and Clark was Clarking too

[lofty radish]

2A 2A 214A if hit 2A 2A 2D on block

[rocky bloom]

I'm starting to get what you mean by fake pressure. She spends a lot of time in the air winding up her moves

[lofty radish]

For Mary?

[rocky bloom]

yea

[lofty radish]

There’s a gap if she does the jump grab which is when you neutral jump

You can preemptively hold up during the block string so you’ll jump if there’s a gap and you’ll continue blocking if it’s a true string

[rocky bloom]

ok... CPU lvl 4 Whip demolished her

like she owed her money

Do they have beef in the lore? 😅

[lofty radish]

No I don’t think so

Dyl is unfamiliar with the whip matchup if you want to go that route

[rocky bloom]

I'm just going to keep an eye out for characters he hates and use them. At the end of the day, that's what it really is all about 😂

[lofty radish]

He hates my Athena

[rocky bloom]

he hates King too

[lofty radish]

He hates zoners

You should consider getting the dlc

Next 3 dlc characters have a history of being broken

[rocky bloom]

doing whip trials.... so you're telling me all it takes to open someone up is a heavy kick?

[lofty radish]

No jump C into close C

[rocky bloom]

Ohhh I see

[lofty radish]

It’s one of the best crossups in the game

[rocky bloom]

Jump C
Close C
6a 6a 6a 6a 6a
😅

[lofty radish]

Yes

And you can cancel the last 6A into 624AC then do 426C

It’s really easy

400 damage

For 1/2 bar

[rocky bloom]

the immediate question I have is... how soon can I try to abuse this in Ranked? 🤣

[lofty radish]

Anytime you want

I don’t expect rank 15s to know how to defend it

The issue with whip is her defense is weak especially up close

[rocky bloom]

I didn't. I had one today I just had to Baja Blast through her

[lofty radish]

Try it in rank and get used to doing the crossup

Her jump cd is really good too. Use that when jumping back

[rocky bloom]

I'm going to do it now... she's going at point

[lofty radish]

You can also use j214C to get in range for the jump c

Round start 2C will work half the time

[rocky bloom]

Ok I'm doing Whip/King/ralf...

Dino/Billy/Yuri

point Billy killed her lol

[lofty radish]

😦

[rocky bloom]

this is a smurf lol

RALF CARRIED!

The Whip stuff was working but when I whiffed I was screwed

She needs work, I'll add her to the lab list

But anchor Ralf... I think that's his place. He steals matches better than I do with King now 🤣

[lofty radish]

Shatter strike!

[rocky bloom]

Shatter Strike and 2C lol

[lofty radish]

With Ralf you gotta be good with 2C into super like how poli does it

[rocky bloom]

oh the Whip round start 2C worked like a charm

I will file this... BM poking is VERY GOOD. I could use her

[lofty radish]

She has great buttons

And an easy hop arc

[dull bone]

Oliver please😭😭
Bros leaking all the anti-dyl tech
Gotta leave me with some advantage😅

[dull bone]

https://tenor.com/view/vilgax-unexpected-wow-ben10-gif-21213140

[rocky bloom]

you should be fine. It doesn't work if I can't actually do it in matches 😅

[latent elm]

Oh @wild agate what was your opinion on my team on the final set? Like that order and Shingo being benched

[wild agate]

I don't think the order was bad considering Zoners as whole can be pretty annoying on the point position. I really like Ramon being mid because of the nature of the character. Then there's also the fact that with Joe will be laming people out, your opponent will likely have no bar to contest when Ramon appears on screen.

Yamazaki is just all around pretty good and I don't really have anything to add what others have said already

[latent elm]

Okay, I might swing with this team for now. Thank your for your input

[latent elm]

@lofty radish do you have anything you think I should work on in terms of my gameplay?

[lofty radish]

I think you’re really good already 🙂

[latent elm]

Alright, thank you for your input.

If I enter the RR it'll be that team or maybe replace Ramón with Shingo or Isla

[lofty radish]

Ramon is trickier than Shingo but either is good

You seem to be more familiar with Shingo

I wouldn’t use Isla

[latent elm]

I only put Isla in there but it could be pretty much any of the characters I play

Only thing I don't like about Ramón is his light confirms are dick ASS

[lofty radish]

Use Ramon and if they are familiar with him, switch to Shingo

I had to figure out how to punish his strings

[latent elm]

I mean I can make almost anything pretty safe with him just because the faint step is good. I'm just not great at using it yet

[lofty radish]

More likely, in a ft2, if they are unfamiliar, they won’t be able to adapt

It took a lot of games before I adapted

And not even well

Didn’t even know ex tiger road is unblockable

[latent elm]

Regular tiger road has that unblockable hit grab

It just doesn't track

[lofty radish]

Took me a few games to realize heavy sobat is an Oh

[lofty radish]

If it’s a hit grab, it s blockable

[latent elm]

Well fair. I thought that's what the dream cancel called it

[lofty radish]

Okay I looked it up. Both are overhead hit grabs

No wonder I always got hit by it

Wait no, that’s the face plant

Okay the Tiger road grab is unblockable command grab

Regular one will miss crouchers but ex one will grab crouchers

I see dream cancel call it an unblockable hitgrab which is an oxymoron

The counter is to roll through it

[latent elm]

Okay well I didn't make it up

[lofty radish]

The face plant is overhead, the grab is a command grab that you have to roll through

[latent elm]

It has counters so I try not do it so much unless I just feel it'll work for some reason

[lofty radish]

Or your opponent does not know how to defend and just sits there and block like I did

That is a strong knowledge check move and should work in RR