SNK Post-Match Discussion

[torpid grotto]

Just do it it

[wanton sierra]

This may be me talking dumb but i really think 2D is also part ofSherm's pressure, you can even whuff an and still cancel into anything

Like 2d into Axel for crossup stuffs

Shermie is hella commital

[worn arch]

She is, but also can be a hell of a dummy thicc blender

It’s not like Shermie has to be right often

[wanton sierra]

I know

And I'm trying to learn that blender

Have any guides I can watch?

[worn arch]

Light pressure

Stay on top of your opponent

Don’t back off on KD

Hop pressure if you can do it

[worn arch]

Again, you don’t need a Shermie-specific guide. You just need to learn this aspect of KOF.

KOF oki really isn’t that deep

[wanton sierra]

Ok

Then what do I do there

Hop pressure if you can, but what are some principles to keep in mind?

[torpid grotto]

SFV had a massive streamer tournament a new players that never touched the game were thrown into the thunder dome they even got coaching from some pros.

Most people who tried to learn properly ate shit and most people that used bad habits/relied on gimmicks won and saw immediately results.

I believe it was Brian F who said if you want to improve do x y and z, if you want to win grab E.Honda and mash his slaps.

Emiru I believe did that and immediately saw results. This is because when you learn you will play worse, you will get bad results, you will lose. Gimmicks will win you at lower levels. The players who tried getting good got fucked the gimmick players did good. However if they didn’t drop sf shortly after the ones who tried learning would ended up far better players than the gimmick reliant ones but progress isn’t instant.

However it’s on you to persevere and understand that you’re at a trench and if you power through it and take your Ls using good habits and not relying on results to dictate your gameplan you will end up a better player for it.

[worn arch]

Step 1 is discouraging wake-up throw

How do you do that?

Safejump

Or spaced meaty

[worn arch]

Remember the Sheeva stomp

[torpid grotto]

I wish I didn’t

[wanton sierra]

Aight, I'll keep trying that then and see how that works for me

[wanton sierra]

Ok, got any good habits for any of my characters that you know of?

Or in general ig since I have a kof issue

And please don't say hop, trust me I'm trying that

I'm doing the drills, trust me

Smth to work on when I get back in the game

[worn arch]

Play a midscreen game

[torpid grotto]

Step 1 Jump in, walk in, try and hop in I understand you’re learning hops Ig not easy. Do whatever you need to do to use your movement anything but just beat it into yourself not to use specials to get in. Beni has the worse specials to get in and he’s your weakest character on offense that’s not a coincidence

[worn arch]

But what does Beni have?

Good buttons for close pressure

Specifically, lights

[wanton sierra]

Not if they're ducking

[torpid grotto]

Step 2 go for your strings even when they block/punish you 2b 2a, or like Athena 2c 6b anything I’m not asking you to light confirm I’m not asking you to 2b 2a full combo just get in the habit

[worn arch]

You have crouching normals and jumping normals.

[wanton sierra]

Yeah

[torpid grotto]

I still drop my lights with mai and I still combo drop, but just the act of 2a 2a for mai specifically will get me in the habit of light confirming

[wanton sierra]

Ok

[torpid grotto]

What does Beni have 2b 2a

?

[wanton sierra]

No

2b 2b

[torpid grotto]

Go for that or 2b 2b or 2a 2a instead of your jump, dive kick

Do that a lot more

[worn arch]

Better than me. I’m still dropping 5B -> 5D. Like how?!?! Haha.

[torpid grotto]

And start gauging your progress of landing pokes not damage

[torpid grotto]

It be like that

Sometimes I drop 5b and not follow up lol

[worn arch]

The Beni staple is 2B 2B 2B Iai Geri

[wanton sierra]

Please watch my stream @worn arch I feel like they'll do a better job of explaining than I do

But like

All of them

I mean in full

[worn arch]

Link me to one and I’ll watch a few

[torpid grotto]

There you go run in or jump in let them block your jump in button remember don’t hit it too high, then immediately 2b 2b

Get in the habit of 2b 2b, 2b 2a no more 2b 2d even if it combos don’t do it

I understand light confirms are hard but I’m not asking you to get them off just go for lights worry about confirming later. Just. Build that habit

[worn arch]

You don’t even need light confirms

[torpid grotto]

Trust me you’re gonna lose more and you’re gonna get a hell of a lot less damage than simply going for the dash grab or fireball or Beni specials a whole lot

But you’re gonna come out a better player

[worn arch]

Just lights period AKA stagger pressure

[torpid grotto]

Sometimes you can just get in their face and like with Shermie cl.d 6b, even if they block and you get punished it is crucial for you to start using your normals and getting in that habit until your ween of your special reliance

I cannot stress enough how important it is for you to stop using these specials as your sole toolkit

And take this all in as advice not criticizing you, and I know you’re gonna take this as a overall negative and you feel like you’re not playing right, however remember OMF has complimented your neutral saying you’re actually winning a lot of interactions and I have said you have very solid defense. There’s positive and negatives don’t just focus on the negative

A strong mental is more important than strong fundamentals it’s just a game

But strong fundies are also super crucial lol

[wanton sierra]

https://www.twitch.tv/cien_tekiou/v/1677933254?sr=a&t=0s

[wanton sierra]

That's if they block and not stuff me out with crouch lights like you do

I'm not taking this super negatively

But I am going to give you my side too

As to show my work, as it work

And tell you what's going through my head

[worn arch]

As an example

[torpid grotto]

Even if they do that’s not what’s important! Results don’t matter yet progress does. Do not look at weather it works in game or not, you know it works figure out why it’s not and improve. Like I said you will eat shit going for this it’s not for you to win, it’s so you build good habits. Like I said you go for your main combo on block you will get stuffed it’s bound to happen. But you need a transitional phase where you’re not doing what’s gonna win games you’re learning good habits

[worn arch]

Yesterday @wanton sierra kept jumping in on me

[wanton sierra]

I mean for like

[worn arch]

And so, based on probability I went for an AA SS

[wanton sierra]

Whenever I try to enforce those habits

[worn arch]

That’s when he decided to stop jumping and I got blown up for it

So you ain’t all bad @wanton sierra

You just gotta refine these intermediate aspects of the game

[torpid grotto]

You know how frustrating it is for me to try punishing with angel 2b 2a instead of blocking and catching someone with a j.c is especially when I drop and angels 2a doesn’t connect. However I understand I need that 2b 2a punish because a better player will blow my up for jumping like bubs who ends block strings with Rugal dp because he knows my bad habits. It’s gonna take time and you mentally know what’s good and you should be doing stop focusing on the match results

[wanton sierra]

And like how Mac said, if thats all I do I get too predictable

So I go for then some times

But the sometimes I do it gets mostly punished

Even tho I will keep trying

[worn arch]

IMO, watching some of your matches

I’d suggest glueing your feet to the ground

You’re always jumping and at roughly the same range. So your method of engagement is fairly one-note.

Also, you should try going for Shermie’s j.B more

Another thing: you ever consider NOT hitting a button when you jump and going for an empty low?

I never see this

[torpid grotto]

Lol that’s because both @wanton sierra and @tall geode are the throw OS kings they both tend not to go for them because they always always punish us with empty jumps lol

[worn arch]

Is that on KD or in neutral?

[wanton sierra]

So do I not do as many jump in

[wanton sierra]

Check yesterday

It's whyvi died as beni a lot

[worn arch]

Is this the video you linked me to?

[wanton sierra]

Once they finally started blocking the dive kick I tried going empty hop throw

[wanton sierra]

This morning

I have 2 BROLIC streams

[torpid grotto]

Both lol they’re insane at throw OS

[wanton sierra]

Mine is more a punish than an OS

Basically bc the hitstun is so low if the hit it too high I get an almost guaranteed throw

Cuz if it's deep I'm going for a ride anyway so might as well

That's my logic anyway

@worn arch https://www.twitch.tv/cien_tekiou/v/1677607510?sr=a&t=0s

This was yesterday

[torpid grotto]

@wanton sierra did you stream this morning?

I don’t see a vod

[wanton sierra]

@torpid grotto

Like I said, 2 brolics

Look at how long ago they were streamed

It'll say on the profile

[torpid grotto]

Oh I see it now

I just searched your channel I didn’t click on mb

[worn arch]

What jump-in button are you using?

[wanton sierra]

Beni j.D, J.B
King J.B J.D

[worn arch]

Yeah…

If you wanna set up run-in -> throw

Best way to do that is off of a blocked j.CD

[wanton sierra]

Also I mean for the opponent

I'm the one getting hit

That's the Throw OS Howl speaks of @worn arch

[worn arch]

Oh

[wanton sierra]

Yesh

[worn arch]

Yeah that’s not an OS

That’s punishing players for hitting their jump-in too high IE what I do to all of you all the time

[torpid grotto]

@wanton sierra switch buttons

[worn arch]

I SHOULD be blocking

[torpid grotto]

I’m watching your match you’re only going for j.d with king

[worn arch]

But y’all largely haven’t taught me otherwise yet

[wanton sierra]

Yes

I said as much

[worn arch]

And I’m trying to discourage y’all haha

[torpid grotto]

Challenge accepted

[wanton sierra]

Wym?

[torpid grotto]

I watched round 1 and you only used j.d

Only

Like no j.b with king at all

Very very similar to mai you struggle to change your jumping angles which I understand you’re learning

But j.d with both mai and king without changing angels are hard to follow up with

Andddd lose air to airs

Use more j.b

Also don’t punish so close with 2d

Stop relying on sweeps

[worn arch]

This is going to come off a little harsh but…

[worn arch]

@wanton sierra only has one angle: forward

[wanton sierra]

Oh

[torpid grotto]

This is what I watched so far I’m at work so it’s gonna be a spotty with the watch through

[wanton sierra]

Ok

[torpid grotto]

I’ll give advice as I can

[wanton sierra]

But when I go backwards I'm not being aggressive

[worn arch]

Why not neutral jump?

[wanton sierra]

Can yall watch more than one match at least before you make sweeping assessments

Please

I beg of you

[worn arch]

I’m not making any sweeping assessments

[torpid grotto]

Like I said I’m watching as I can I’m just commenting as I can at work lol

[wanton sierra]

@worn arch

[worn arch]

I’m watching full matches and making my assessments based on patterns I’m seeing

[torpid grotto]

I did specify this is all off the first round so don’t take it as a general assessment

[wanton sierra]

Rounda

But fair

[worn arch]

Look, I am 1000% guilty of this: what you think you are doing is not what you are actually doing.

[wanton sierra]

I'm basically talking to yall during work

Which is why my talking is spotty

[torpid grotto]

Yeah I’ll try watching fully but I’ll cite round and match so you can see what I’m talking about

[wanton sierra]

There are times I go backwards, times I neutral jump CD

It's not often

[torpid grotto]

Imma try to watch in full but also I’m at work lol

[wanton sierra]

But when yall say I never do it or never see it it does hurt a bit

[wanton sierra]

Yeah nws

[torpid grotto]

Off the top

Like I said I caught the first round so far so take it with a grain of salt

Pleasantly surprised

[wanton sierra]

I feel like you guys should hold off on saying "do this and this more" until you've seen more than one match

There is the chance I do it layer in a set

[torpid grotto]

I’m just pointing it out as I go I won’t make actual advice till the end right now just kinda pointing out what I see

I’m not gonna tell you you never use j.b with king, I’m just saying to start the set off you just used j.d

[worn arch]

I’m on the 3rd and still seeing the same patterns.

[worn arch]

Would you prefer I watch closer to the end of your stream as opposed to the beginning for a more accurate assessment?

[wanton sierra]

Maybe

I still feel it best you see the progress over time

But I understand you may not have that time

So yeah

Towards the end might be better

Assuming I haven't lost my shit

[lofty radish]

Just curious, do you rewatch your own matches?

[wanton sierra]

Frequently but not always

Usually matches I get trounced to see where I kept getting hit

Then proceed to get hit by that same stuff next day

Which is why I say my adaption feels like a daily reset

[lofty radish]

If you can identify where you did wrong then you can change it

[torpid grotto]

Ok round 2 against angel, you round start with a (venom strike?) try not doing that or at least always, you also got a couple knockdowns with cherry in corner and you backed off every time and threw fireball

Try going for more of that pressure

[worn arch]

You know what’s also funny?

[wanton sierra]

Me trying to talk shit?

Cuz I always get smacked for it

[worn arch]

That 10-15% when @wanton sierra does something in-match that we suggest it tends to work out well for him

Like I just saw him get a punish because of a neutral jump in the corner

So more of that

Or continuing off a light on block

But I think the takeaway here is that these moments are rare, and the focus here is on bad habits so you can be better

[wanton sierra]

Yes, because believe it or not I do try to implement what you guys tell me to do

[wanton sierra]

Wanna know why I back off?

Usually it's to try and get a roll

Because when I run back in, me still not being good at hops in game I jump and they just roll right out

[worn arch]

You can always try just walking slightly forward and hitting 2B 5B

[wanton sierra]

Ill try to remember that

[torpid grotto]

Because you’re playing for results

[wanton sierra]

Because yes I want to implement it but I also can't always 100% of the time go for more pressure

I already learned from trying to revolve around it with Mac and trying to set up oki pressure yesterday

Like he said, doing it all the time is counter productive

I gotta back off at some point to try and bait a response

[torpid grotto]

No, you actually have to go for the pressure more, only way you’ll learn. If you back off every chance to avoid not pressuring right you’re just assuring yourself you won’t learn pressure or take way longer than you shoudl

[wanton sierra]

I'm not saying backing off everytime

But tell me, wanna know what happens to overaggression?

I know you know too

[torpid grotto]

By giving up corner because you’re scared of x you’re giving yourself the easy way out. You don’t win and don’t lose but that’s not the right course of action

[wanton sierra]

I'm not scared

[torpid grotto]

Applying pressure after a knockdown in corner is your duty not over aggression

[wanton sierra]

I'm trying to read a response

Like I know you and Smoke especially like rolling out the corner

[torpid grotto]

Focus more on playing soundly attempt the hop even if you can’t do it, go for 2 b

[wanton sierra]

Mac does too but he's getting better at not doing it too often

[torpid grotto]

You’re amazing at throwing

Throw us out the roll

[wanton sierra]

Wl I can't be in the air if you roll

[torpid grotto]

You shouldn’t back off and just shrug your shoulders and say we’ll they’re gonna roll

Great punish them

Hopping/jumping in is only one form of applying pressure

You can go for your lows

Go for a throw@

[wanton sierra]

I'm not shrugging

I'm in wait

Fine

I'll go for more pressure

But please don't say I'm backing out like a coward

[torpid grotto]

You can throw even when it’s not a full screen run in or when they roll.

That’s not my phrasing and you backing up out of free corner pressure is you sacrificing your offense to play it safe

[wanton sierra]

I say they are gonna roll in my head so I'm responding in backing away to where the roll ends and then punishing the recovery

Yeah sometimes I go a bit way way back

But for King specifically is because I'm still trying to get in and out of a zoner mindset

Mid match and all that jazz

[wanton sierra]

More like a bet that went poorly

[torpid grotto]

I get it, however even the zoniest characters need offense not just neutral

It’s gonna get harder and harder to win matches off only fireball

And I understand that’s not what you’re trying to do

But on a very positive note

The first match I know you don’t want to hear it match by match

But your first match you jumped in and ran up and used normals almost exclusively

It didn’t go well granted however that is literally night and day from what I saw last night

[wanton sierra]

Yes because believe it or not I do want to try and apply your advice

[torpid grotto]

I know you do, and not just my advice everyone here I know you want to improve and I’m telling you

Just the change in attitude gameplay wise was great

[wanton sierra]

Well I wasn't as crap this morning either to help

Plus sleep is always nice

[torpid grotto]

Sleep is op

That’s why @rich fractal refuses to wake up

She irl fem meit

[wanton sierra]

Cute

[rich fractal]

i just woke up 😔

[torpid grotto]

Of course you did it’s around that time

Good morning

Thanks for checking in with us before your post sleep nap

[rich fractal]

gm and yw \

[wanton sierra]

Yw?

[wanton sierra]

Such a Meit trait

[torpid grotto]

When we scrapping punk

[rich fractal]

idkk r u gonna be free tonight

i could prob boot up the game today to practice

[torpid grotto]

I could be

I’ll ping ya

You’re my favorite Athena/Yuri/Kula player

[wanton sierra]

I need Yuri MU EXP honestly

[torpid grotto]

Your problems are so much mu experience quite yet I know yesterday you also said you need luong mu

[torpid grotto]

@wanton sierra me and your Shermie have beef

Ok starting positive I’m seeing you j.c cl.d a lot more great stuff

It hasn’t been working well for you but it’ll come with your jump ins

However

You had a sequence where you went for hit grab, got blocked, went for command grab whiffed and without cherry doing anything you followed with aa grab which whiffed and then you ran in with dash grab

You stole the round with that grab from cherry twice that match

And it’s Not a good thing

Also too much 2b 2d

[wanton sierra]

Ok the AA wasn't my fault

I tried doing a running CMG

But the dash forward registered into the input and gave me a dp bc of the game's leniency

[torpid grotto]

What’s cmg? Is that a her dash special

[wanton sierra]

ComMand Grab

[torpid grotto]

So that’s still 3 specials back to back to back in neutral

If it had worked how how you wanted

[wanton sierra]

66 41236

I would've gotten the 2nd grab

[torpid grotto]

Also all your 2bs are turning immediately to 2ds

[wanton sierra]

Cuz Cherry stayed still

[torpid grotto]

Yeah but that’s not the point

Because it would’ve worked doesn’t mean it should

[wanton sierra]

The put was playing Shermie as a grappler

Since Mac wanted me to lean into their roles more

So what's Shermie?

Grab and Mix, that's her main pressure isn't it?

The dash grab I'll admit was a moment of panic

This was this morning

[torpid grotto]

Sure grab and mix, however not 4 grabs in a row. Clark is the same I’ve never seen oli attempt to grab me with his tackle into bear hug into tackle grab

[wanton sierra]

Well don't compare me to Oli then

Clark and Shermie play very different

[torpid grotto]

That’s not the point

[wanton sierra]

Same is true for me and Oli

[torpid grotto]

Ok fine

[wanton sierra]

I understand and will not try to do that as often

But hey sometimes peeps won't expect the 2nd grab

I will still try that but a lot less

[torpid grotto]

That’s true lol I do the same but make it a surprise

[lofty radish]

To be fair Clark tackle is a blockable hit grab and Shermie dash grab is unblockable so their usages are very different. I almost never do raw tackle

[wanton sierra]

Thanks Oli

I'm not a Clark player

But good info

[torpid grotto]

Also king you use a j.cd I believe but that was once, every other time is a j.d

[torpid grotto]

I get it and you’re right, but the point is you can’t spam specials even on grapplers

[wanton sierra]

J.D is a better tool for jump ins then JCD

[torpid grotto]

Laura, Gief, Clark, Ramon, Yuri, Manon, Baiken all have to switch it up

[torpid grotto]

Not too close use your j.b

[wanton sierra]

For King Beni and Shermie actually

[lofty radish]

Clark you have to work harder to get in as unlike Shermie, he doesn’t have dash grab or axle kick that allows you to kinda skip neutral

[wanton sierra]

That's A2A

[torpid grotto]

You shouldng be using only 1 jumping button

[wanton sierra]

It's points way too high for consistency in jump ins

[torpid grotto]

I’m pretty sure you can get a j.b with both Shermie and king to get jump ins

I believe your j.d is even harder

[wanton sierra]

Not King

[torpid grotto]

I’ll lab it tonight

What’s a easy one two @lofty radish

[lofty radish]

How is king jA and jC?

[torpid grotto]

Jump in 2b 2b dp?

[lofty radish]

One two what? You already know king’s BnB. Cien uses it all the time

[torpid grotto]

Like a simple bnb that’s not too complex

[fickle plaza]

Bro king’s jump ins look active asf

[torpid grotto]

I am wrong cien

Replace j.d with j.b

You seem to only use j.b

I didn’t know kings move

J.d might provide you a better angle for combos

[wanton sierra]

Yes

[torpid grotto]

And jump ins in general

[wanton sierra]

I said this

[torpid grotto]

Also jump a

[wanton sierra]

Nono

Not j.a

[torpid grotto]

Jump a seems great for hop ins

(I know I know)

[wanton sierra]

I j.B a lot in anticipation for A2A

Once they stop jumping I try to J.D and zone

And then, at what I try to be random, run in behind a fireball for when they try to get very close

I still fail at this last step but that's the idea

[lofty radish]

So according to Dream cancel, jA and jC are useless? Like jB and jD are superior in every way

[wanton sierra]

Apparently

[lofty radish]

If true, I can see king getting some buffs

[wanton sierra]

Please

[torpid grotto]

I wouldn’t rat out j.a I would have to see myself but same is said for luong j.a

[rocky bloom]

Double Strike!

[lofty radish]

Does she have a crossup button?

[torpid grotto]

But I find a lot of success with luong j.a

[wanton sierra]

That's J.D's job

But it sucks

Look at the SS

"Can cross up"

But uh....

[torpid grotto]

Does it suck

[wanton sierra]

Boy is it tight

[lofty radish]

Make jump C a crossup button! That would be a good buff for her

[torpid grotto]

Or is it more of your angle on jump ins

[wanton sierra]

The window to crossup is one I have yet to hit

[wanton sierra]

For J.C maybe

But J.D's hitbox, in theory, should be both her feet

But it's just shy inside

[wanton sierra]

Ikr

Make me use that button

J.A would be fantastic for a last second change

Like you jump and you see them right after

Man that'd be a small tool but it'd have its use

[wanton sierra]

In Luong's case, her animation for J.A is a lot more ambiguous than King's

It's not like Leona J.B and that nightmare

[torpid grotto]

Wym by ambiguity ?

[scarlet delta]

@tall geode Any thoughts ? Def felt like at the end we were gaming

[torpid grotto]

I’m simply referring to the option of hoping j.a bit for a mix or anything

[scarlet delta]

My Vanessa needs some work tbh, not as od as leona

Definitely completing some strings to hard like w/ the Kyo up kicks but was better abt not doing it in other rounds

[wanton sierra]

I mean it works a lot bc the hurt box makes it harder to tell which wat to block

Harder than King's

Plus if that's not gonna be it's use they why just A over D?

[torpid grotto]

I’m not telling you to catch people off gaurd blocking just land the jump in

[fickle plaza]

Howl showed me how busted that move by itself really is

[wanton sierra]

Exactly

[torpid grotto]

Thanks buddy

[wanton sierra]

I gtg

Ork

Work

[fickle plaza]

Other than that 214 D is the way

[wanton sierra]

Stop eating my types, keyboard

Plus J.A when you expect the crossup is rather nasty too

Luong J.A is stronger for her tools

Imo

[tall geode]

Boomcube

@torpid grotto what’s this throw OS you speak of? Serious question

[torpid grotto]

Empty hop

You and cien always throw them

[tall geode]

Yeah wish we could have played a few more! Thought you did a really good job of hitting your BnBs and cashing out. Watch the sweeps after a block string better players than me will hop over it and full punish. I felt like Iori (followed closely by Kyo) gave me the most problems. Overall just keep playing and grinding 🤘

Oh yeah also AA me more

[tall geode]

So empty hop throw?

[scarlet delta]

Yeah Iori was gaming

Kyo only started gaming at the end really

[torpid grotto]

No when I empty hop

You throw me out of it before my 2b comes out

[tall geode]

Ok. I don’t see Cien do that tho, he does mash grab anytime he gets hit so if it’s too high he’ll get a throw

I only asked bc I’ve seen “OS” used improperly around here a bit. An option select is one set of inputs that covers multiple “options” based on what the opponent does. Tbh I’d be happier if my cl.C came out so I got the full combo 😹😹😹

[torpid grotto]

Lol we use OS a tad bit

OS is referring to anything someone does a lot lol

Like cherry loses

Someone plays a character better

[tall geode]

I mean it’s whatever I’m just trying to be nice about it bc other people (like at tournaments) might be dicks. All I’m saying

[torpid grotto]

“See me in Kof 14, see me in kof 2002”

Cherry OS

[tall geode]

But yeah I get what you mean lol

[torpid grotto]

Nah trash talk these losers

[tall geode]

By the time 16 comes out I’ll be saying that about 15 lmaooooo

I’ll finally be good

[torpid grotto]

So will cherry

[scarlet delta]

I’ll be locked into GAROU2

Oda Vision

[torpid grotto]

See me on Garou 1

[tall geode]

See me in fatal fury special

[scarlet delta]

Yeah I will lemme redownload the game

[torpid grotto]

[scarlet delta]

if Cherry ever said see me in the last blade 2 I’d be like yeah sure

I’m on rn

presses macro on PS4 controller to auto launch the Lb2

[torpid grotto]

Cherry OS

See me on last blade 1

[tall geode]

Totally agree but when has that ever stopped the football t…douchebags?

[scarlet delta]

Also me: yeah sure

[tall geode]

Too soon?

[scarlet delta]

LB1 has some sauce too

It has custom combos

Stages and music might be better too

[torpid grotto]

@tall geode it’s still crazy to me that I’m taking matches off you

You wash me bro

[tall geode]

Yeah yeah I’ll figure it out level up again and the cycle will continue

I’m actually watching replays now ffs

[torpid grotto]

Why ffs? 🤣

Come on man I’m not that bad

[tall geode]

It’s not that you’re bad it’s that I need to watch it again sheeesh

You doing ratio tonight yeah?

You’re good buddy don’t sweat it

[torpid grotto]

Why you studying my stuff

Don’t do that

Then you’ll beat me 😔

[unique fjord]

@tall geode @livid knot I know you guys had to jet but if you've got anything to coach me on I'd be grateful

[tall geode]

Yeah man I got some stuff will post after I get back home

[unique fjord]

Sounds good anything helps man

[tall geode]

I’d like to hear from you too if you could walk me through what your process was. I know you’re going out so whenever is cool

[unique fjord]

Be honest I'm honored you'd ask. I may have some time between heading out and finishing up at work. Are you looking for stuff I noticed or stuff I'm actively working on?

[tall geode]

Just what you were thinking/doing in reaction to my gameplan

Iron sharpens iron and we can all learn from each other

[livid knot]

I would say for now just practice combos. You did land some hits on me but you either didn't confirm or you dropped.

[unique fjord]

And I cried every time

[fickle plaza]

@livid knot give me advice

[livid knot]

Lock it in

[torpid grotto]

@knotty oriole ban bubs please dudes a troll

No advice

Bullying

Stupid emotes

Get him out of here

[unique fjord]

Got hopefully a few minutes here to do some quick ones.

1. From what I noticed you tend to either do for the 2B low confirm or the like full send jump-in. Now that I'm not completely inept at AAing I feel like I stuffed a lot of your offense (especially with O. Shermie) by blocking low and waiting to react to the jump. I don't know what the answer is to this it's just a pattern I noticed. I know Shun's far 5C confirms into 6A so maybe more of that to check?

2. Couple of opportunities where you either spent not enough or too much meter to kill, I think. Couple of times you sent the 2 meter special when you had enough to do an advanced cancel that probably would have killed. (I only notice this because you pointed out I do the same thing).

3. You're getting way mixier with that Shun aerial sauce. Few times you definitely caught me out. I think if you condition your opponent to AA on reaction like I was you could get some nasty conversions off that.

4. Your Lis with meter is a fucking horror movie and she makes me play so much more defensively because if you get a single hit and have 2-3 bars I'm basically fucked. I genuinely love watching you play Lis.

5. This isn't you but I don't know how to deal with the Shun 214A in the corner because holy shit that knockback on block. I need to actually lab this out because it's a stupid amount of corner pressure and I don't know what to do that isn't either a full EX reversal or SS.

6. Last thing is that sometimes when you're getting blocked consistently you tend to back off and reset neutral and try a different approach but I'm pretty sure your characters are fast enough to just keep that pressure up. Chris for sure has frametraps from what I've read. I dont know how much you're using them but if you're not, do it more. When you're fully aggro on me I have no breathing room and it's legitimately suffocating. I know better players can probably punish and you're also probably just letting me get my bearings so I dunno.

Hope that's helpful dude I'm like 10 weeks into this game so my scattered YouTube knowledge and random observations are all I can offer 😂

[tall geode]

This is great dude thank you so much! I’ll try and expand on these points

1. Was gonna say, you’ve gotten way way better at AA, that was one of the things I brought up when we first played. Well done! Don’t take this the wrong way, but Shermie 2C is the best AA normal in the game, there were a couple times I was fully behind her head and got clipped it’s hitbox is beeeg bruh. Abuse that shit. Also I (embarrassingly) only recently learned that Shun 2A hits mid so that’s why you saw the 2B more (it links to 2A). Been trying to get that dialed in actual matches

2. I feel like you’re talking about Chris here because I definitely advance canceled with Liz and need 3.5 bar to do it justice with Shun. Chris’ supers are weird, you can advance cancel off flash kick into the chop hand super but the majority of the hits on the L2 whiff shrug so it’s a waste of meter. Been labbing going the other way but it’s a bit trickier and has tighter timing. Will add to the pile

3. I’ve (stupidly) ignored his air game until real recently so thanks for the props. I feel like getting that going is gonna be key to actually being good with him

4. Thanks again! Liz is tough but the reward for getting in is big as long as I don’t drop it

5. Shun 214A is just really safe in general so I can use it to end blocked pressure and to poke. If you think you have a read on me doing it raw do neutral jump, hit your button deep enough and you should get a full punish. It’s similar to how you beat Clark armor grab

6. This is something I picked up from Daru, although I definitely need to learn and incorporate frame traps in the mix. For Liz at least when her turn is over, it’s usually over unless I want to gamble. Will try and find some frame traps with Chris as he’s super quick

[tall geode]

Again great job AA especially with O Shermie but also with Nako. I think you should consider putting more time into Rock as well he is strong af and his 2C is also a great AA button

Like Bubs said keep practicing your punish combos, I don’t know how you lab but at this point should really only be doing it against a moving target. Have the dummy DP or just be on CPU L3 or something. It’ll help out a lot

Andy looking stronger and stronger keep that up! One question tho; why the run up cl.C? Granted I didn’t do much about it but I noticed it

Much better zoning with O Shermie and Andy. It should be automatic for you to put an orb on the screen after a knockdown. Meaty fireball if the spacing is good too, I do it with Robert all the time. Don’t always get the timing right but when I do it forces a block. You’ll also get chip kills and the odd stray hit this way

Hope this doesn’t sound harsh, you are leveling up quick! Keep it up 🤘

[unique fjord]

Super helpful notes thanks man! As far as Andy run-up 5C whatever the hell - he has weird confirms and his light confirm into anything other than 236A is actually oddly hard for me to land so I tend to fish for the meaty / run-up cl.C to start the combo. I'm labbing his other starters and jump-ins more to get comfortable using those it's just mostly the only thing I can actually convert off of 🙃

And not harsh at all that was super helpful. Definitely stuff to keep labbing / implementing. At this point I mostly lab against stationary targets as a warm-up / muscle memory drill and then either run full sets against level 3 CPUs where I strictly focus on one thing (e.g. I can only combo off light starters unless it's a punish, no weird Andy run up cl.C) or set the training CPU to level 3 and practice dumping meter off a confirm

[tall geode]

@knotty oriole curious if you could give a breakdown on your air to air strat. Lots of times it felt like you jumped after me/in reaction and still won the air to air interaction. Clark I understand but Andy was a head scratcher

[lofty radish]

Not eljay but air to air is not just a function of who jumped first. The hitbox and active frames are a big factor as well. Usually the one who jumped first wins but there are some air buttons like Clark’s jD whose hitbox is angled upward so he wins if he jumps later. It’s hard cause it’s dependent on the individual character and their jump buttons. There’s no general rule. The best you want is a jump button that is active and has a huge forward hitbox (like Shermie jump CD)

Shunei looks like he has crummy jump buttons for air to air in my brief usage of him

But he has the air blue hand to compensate

[fickle plaza]

Kings j B got lingering active frames no one talking about

[lofty radish]

Oh yeah that button is super good for air to air

Cien and cherry abuses it

[knotty oriole]

@tall geode Just some observations from last session:

• I like you learning Shun’s air options. We should try to utilize most of our characters’ movesets. While you clipped me with your wings, there were many times where I whiff punished you on landing or caught you during the ascent. I’m sure you’re still testing out application and spacing. I think you cancel air options from j.CD, which is a normal you can abuse due to its speed.

• Chris is an interesting character. Upon looking at frame data, his elbow>overhead is extremely punishable on block. Idk how far it pushes one back , but it’s in the -40’s oB, so i don’t recommend using it so much raw…. Idk him though, so take that tip with a grain of salt.

• I didn’t see so much Liz command normal kick last night. It was a good way to stuff my approach. I’d continue using that.

• You were backing yourself into the corner more again. Your characters have decent escape options, but it still made my job a little easier.

• Air to air interactions/strat: As @lofty radish said, it’s not a matter of who jumped first. It’s multifactorial: so who pressed first, the startup and active frames of the aerial, its hitbox. I knew you were practicing your aerials with Shun, so I knew to take it to the skies, so I used Clark and Yama’s j.B as they have good horizontal range on the approach. When you tried to get out of the corner, i preemptively jumped, then pressed the button i thought worked best in whatever situation arose. When reacting with an air to air, especially when i had you cornered, I knew you wanted out, so I just kept my pressure spaced and light, not overextending and reacted to your escape attempt with a jump light (since they usually have faster startup), or punish your roll with a combo.

• Also, I’m not sure what your’e trying to do on wake up, but I’m landing more meaties.

[knotty oriole]

With Andy, I just reacted with instant j.A or B

[tall geode]

Yeah last night was literally my second time trying those options out in matches. There are so many unexplored applications but so far my main takeaways are; it takes up space, builds meter and (after conditioning people to look for it) really opens up his ground game. Much much much more labbing and setups to develop here

Chris is a baby right now, was mostly exploring neutral as I don’t really have any combos with him. That move is negative on block but allows a follow up so it’s not as cut and dry as the -41 makes it seem. His DP and side switch are both done with B/D so gotta really be deliberate or I’ll get those easy to punish DP’s like I did last night

[tall geode]

Yeah this was my main question I understand what you were doing in the corner as you’re already at advantage there. In the midscreen it was just a little off putting bc my moves have similar startup and active frames, in some cases more active frames but it seemed like the best I could do was trade

Re: meatys. I think you might just be getting better with them, this is another thing I’ve only recently figured out how to lab but well timed meatys are really really strong

[tall geode]

I put this on the map didn’t I lol. His j.A has a great forward hitbox it’s just not terribly active. Thanks for your reply as well! I know Clark rules the air to air game was mostly curious about Andy and Ryo too. It’s one thing to win air the air because you were there first but doing it on reaction is pretty badass. Even Liz with her 8F active knee usually only got trades. Sort of coming to terms with the fact that I seem to gravitate towards characters with not huge buttons, which is like a huge facet of eljays gameplan

[scarlet delta]

me when the blue hand comes out oh hell no

[knotty oriole]

Hitboxes should be taken into account, too. Like Oli said, Clark’s j.D has a good hitbox above him, too. I should be using that godlike aerial, but the j.B has sufficed.

Re: Re: Meaties. You’ve forced me get my meaties on point. I was asking because you’ve been getting clipped by repeated Ryo sweeps. I was just wondering if you’re trying to wake up button, jump, or backdash.

[knotty oriole]

Yeah, I’m a fan of the ranged normals. Stubby characters, like Andy, just need practice with spacing.

@livid knot is there a reason why you aa with ex moonslash instead of saving meter with C moonslash?

[livid knot]

Faster.

C isnt completely invulnerable

[knotty oriole]

To air projectiles, you’re vulnerable, but physical attacks are weak to it

[livid knot]

I sTill use C

[tall geode]

Ok thanks I’ll try and remember to think about that. It was a little tough for me to accept that I wasn’t winning the air to air game as it was pretty one sided and again, you were doing it on reaction which kinda blew me away tbh

@knotty oriole I literally finally comprehended meatys like 48 hours ago lmao. Huge hole in my game. Running up and getting the spacing correct goes out the window in a match (right now)plus it seems like you and a few others are able to mash out with something. Doesn’t seem to work when I try it lol but it’s just another thing for me to figure out. I can’t remember what I was trying or who I was trying it with

@smoky parcel how do I develop a mixup game like yours got any videos or tutorials? Thanks again for the long set

[smoky parcel]

Well there are a couple base things in the game you can do with everyone, and there a character specific things. Chris can really troll about and get in the opponent's head, thats kinda his thing. Hit you, slide behind you, frame trap, tick grab. But for starters, you can vary your jumps. Even something as simple as a run up vertical jump if you think the opponent will mash or whatever. Usually people will full jump then hop. With this you can either commit or empty jump into whatever. They can still grab you or aa but if you get it then it'll be worth. There is a way to space landing properly so they can not punish. Obviously do this in moderation to throw off the jump pattern and whatnot. Using throws opens up your possibilities as well. I'm sure you've seen zoners spam fireballs and then run in and grab you. It's that simple. After watching @knotty oriole last night stream, I need to steal some of his grounded SF mannerisms and patience. Getting knockdowns creates that window of opportunity for you to create mix. That's why Iori is so nasty he can hard knockdown, overhead, crossup, command throw, run up low, it's a lot to watch out for. There may be things I'm missing. A lot of stuff I learned mostly fighting, and now everyone here is very resourceful.

[tall geode]

@smoky parcel thanks a million dude. Feels like I’m at a point where practicing intentionally will net the most payoff and I do understand there aren’t really shortcuts. Aka play the video game. Just trying to learn how to learn if that makes sense. I see you run different setups and want to get there as well

It’s been great watching everyone level up and to try and do the same 🤘

Lol got a couple cross ups today but the only one I mixed was myself

[smoky parcel]

Yeah Shun can do different aerial stuff off of his 6A is it? The kick, can get creative with this kind of stuff. But yeah there are a lot of things that you can do with the cast it gets fun. There are a lot of times where it can get kinda autopilot though and it can be easy to repeat pressure, but yeah mixing it up is where you can take the cake

[knotty oriole]

That’s where pressing the breaks on offense and just blocking during pressure can lessen the chance of autopilot.

[smoky parcel]

Blocking, ah yes.

[knotty oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/goku-block-dbz-dbs-db-gif-21562208

[tall geode]

6B is what I think you mean 6A is the elbow. He can do blue swipe, it’s actually the only way to make it safe. Oh and ex air dash backwards

But yeah learning how to think about those possibilities is key huh

[smoky parcel]

Yeah this is it. I forgot

[unique fjord]

@smoky parcel @tall geode Whatever you guys got for me is much appreciated

[fickle plaza]

If I can hit confirm into qm I can hit confirm into a full combo im just wasting bar

And let me stop flailing around jumping around like a monkey

Anything else @smoky parcel @unique fjord @tall geode

My performance was terrible

Gotta be more open and aware

[unique fjord]

Honestly I didn't pick out much but I'm half sick and tired tonight. If you have anything for me I'd be grateful but no pressure

[tall geode]

I thought you guys both played well. I’m having to come to terms with the fact that drops and misinputs happen. It sucks but just gotta flush it and move on quickly. I think my biggest thing right now is not moving with intention, like I can’t think of what I want to do with Chris and getting all kinds of weird shit and then getting blown up for it

I’ll watch the tapes tmw and see what I can see tho

[fickle plaza]

I got like three trip guards on you with Luong and dropped all three because I didn’t do the multiple 2b’s I only did one soo many chances to kill when you were one combo away 😂

[tall geode]

That’s those drops I was taking about lol. Also when I do that with Robert it’s off one hit bc chaining off trip guard is weird for some reason idk why. But I don’t know Luong maybe it’s easier with her

I’ve heard a good way to practice that is have the dummy do super jump CD so maybe try that and see if it helps

[fickle plaza]

Oh I get you my bad yeah it’s 2b 2b 2b I think if I did the ex flip kick instead of the ex kicks she has I probably would’ve gotten the combo tbh I tried to go optimal even though I only did 1 2b which the ex kicks (214 a+d) is tooo slow to link off only one

So it’s just an error on my end to do the actual combo I should know better

[tall geode]

Oh gotcha that’s weird. Maybe they’ll fix it next month seems odd she can’t do certain combos off one hit

[tall geode]

I did and still do this so much with Chris like I’ll do the 214 and watch myself in slow motion press the unsafe option. And then explode

[wanton sierra]

@lofty radish Clark j.D beating out an already active Shermie j. CD haunts my every waking moment

[torpid grotto]

Tell me bout it

@wanton sierra does it actually or are you sure it’s not jump heights remember in kof height wins unless you aa with luong

[wanton sierra]

That have been times I was thighs over him and I still got punked into a vortex setup

Literally tackling me

Doing things to my fair Maiden

Things I cannot stand

[torpid grotto]

Clark is just OP

That’s why all my homies hate Clark

[wanton sierra]

We must eradicate all Clark players

Starting with @lofty radish's punkass

[unique fjord]

Huge missed opportunity for your name to be "Moist Howlette"

[knotty oriole]

https://tenor.com/view/keegan-boshoff-wet-gif-16007564

[unique fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/chevy-chase-im-the-coolest-guy-in-the-world-cool-coolest-gif-5101014

I suggest he just lean into it and rename to "Howlthorne Wipes Moist Howlettes" but hey

[lofty radish]

Too bad I’m retired

You won’t have the satisfaction of beating my clark

[torpid grotto]

I’m ready for Clark 2.0

I wonder who you will settle in for in SF

[lofty radish]

Blanka probably

[torpid grotto]

Let’s gooo

Everyone here has an uncanny ability of picking characters and sticking to them

Y’all scare me

[lofty radish]

Looks like Rooflemonger is most interested in Marisa and manon. I kinda don’t want to play the same characters as him

[torpid grotto]

Damn bro what did roofle do to y’all lol

[lofty radish]

He’s just a scrub

And his content kinda annoys me

[torpid grotto]

But I’m a scrub 🥺

[lofty radish]

He’ll release a useless 30 min guide for manon and Marisa for sure

[torpid grotto]

Hey man

He’s more knowledgeable than me

[lofty radish]

He mains Shermie and maxima in KoF

And Antonov

[torpid grotto]

Ok might seem obsessive

But I’ll watch a 50 minute video on Manon and learn nothing but be entertained

Simply for the animations

And I don’t mean that in a lewd way

Like chun li lotus stance I think that’s what it’s called

[lofty radish]

His visual guide for patch changes is literally him reading the patch notes and doing the character‘s moves

[torpid grotto]

Lol

Nah but show me a Vanessa guide that has all the information you need but it’s just text no talking and I can’t watch it lol

[scarlet delta]

Smfh bro

My Vanessa gonna pass u up if u don’t lock it in

[torpid grotto]

I don’t want that to happen but if she does imma be so happy bro

@lofty radish ngl I keep saying juri Manon juri Manon but sf6 might make me a chun main

Witch stance cancelling and everything else she might get me motivated

[scarlet delta]

Yeah she has some serious (difficult) sauce in 6

Few ppl have tapped in

[torpid grotto]

Agreed

Plus the kikosho is one of my favorite fg moves ever

[scarlet delta]

She seems way harder than some of the other peep but I appreciate that

[torpid grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/chunli-kikosho-qigong-palm-snk-vs-capcom-svc-chaos-gif-22337188

[scarlet delta]

kikosho is goated lol

[torpid grotto]

I’m so glad it’s back in a viable way

[scarlet delta]

I saw this Hugo on a justin Wong vid parry his whole Kikosho and then punish it was OD

[torpid grotto]

It think I saw that too

[knotty oriole]

#1051573097184108585

[smoky parcel]

What is trip guard in simple explanation ?

[fickle plaza]

When they whiff a jump in for being too high and you punish with a low

[knotty oriole]

This trip guard is achieved because the low attack shortens the height of the character’s hurtbox, thus giving one the ability to avoid the jump in’s hitbox.

Not all low attacks are created equal.

The low forces the whiff and punishes the attempted jump in at the same time.

[torpid grotto]

Ángel and Luong 2d for the win

[tall geode]

Can do a full combo off 2B’s with lots of characters so not just sweep. Don’t think it’s possible to trip guard hops tho. You have to time it so they land on your outstretched limb

[fickle plaza]

Yo I’m not gon cap that’s exactly what I be thinking and I should know better to try so I eat a jump in to the face it is my worst bad habit aside from going to qm

[tall geode]

It’s cool one of these days I’ll stop trying to trip guard whip with her huge ass cross up hitbox

[fickle plaza]

That’s straight up death 💀

Is eljay back on whip????

[torpid grotto]

Yes cry

[tall geode]

Can confirm

[fickle plaza]

https://tenor.com/view/keyandpeele-fuck-fuckinghell-no-nope-gif-5053765

[abstract swift]

@tall geode idk if you got your question answered already about airs, but some characters j.A or j.B (usually this one) are quite good stuffing air approaches, even if they jump after you

Likewise there are some characters who have disjointed j.C's who beat j.A or j.B on a late jump

[tall geode]

I did but thanks for the added context that’s helpful

[tall geode]

Did some testing and I think Shun j.C is like this because the hitbox is way out in front shielding his hurtbox

[abstract swift]

the angle of their attack also plays a role, to my understanding. So people who have that 45 degree attack are good to stop a late jump, likewise Rock's j.b has a way higher hitbox n stuffs like a mfer

n then there's punks like @torpid grotto 's Mai who had jank buttons n stop everything LOL

at best you'll trade

[torpid grotto]

if youre lucky punk

mai normals supremacy

[abstract swift]

at BEST

I traded on the regular w/ you last set

I'm like "are you fucking kidding me, fuck mai"

😐

[torpid grotto]

So what

You’re gonna fight me or kiss me

[abstract swift]

play an honest character like kula or krohnen

[torpid grotto]

Are you still upset about that far d

[abstract swift]

tf is wrong with you

[torpid grotto]

Bubs OS

[tall geode]

@abstract swift who the fuck is this moist guy? I look away from my phone for 2 seconds and the page filled up

[torpid grotto]

Mai buff for Jan

[torpid grotto]

Da goat of bs’ing wins

[tall geode]

😹😹😹

[torpid grotto]

Y’all ain’t ever felt more robbed than when playing against me

[abstract swift]

LOLLLLLLL

[torpid grotto]

One of my favorite memories to this day is round start climaxing @abstract swift terry lol

[abstract swift]

yeah you're outta your mind

[fickle plaza]

Kiss

[torpid grotto]

And you like it

One day yall realize you can’t take your meter to the grave and scaling for pussies

Y’all thank me then

[fickle plaza]

Wrong chat lol

[knotty oriole]

@tall geode random thought, but Chris has a god-like j.CD. It’s just as good, if not better than Whip’s.

[knotty oriole]

I still think Mac takes the cake

[tall geode]

Dude it’s so good. I can whiff cancel it on the ground too unlike a certain protagonist

[knotty oriole]

You can whiff cancel the j.CD?

[tall geode]

No sorry on the ground

[knotty oriole]

@smoky parcel @tall geode What are some things you think I can improve on?

[smoky parcel]

You were definitely swatting me out of the air a lot, stopping some approaches with those long normals like the Yama kick and stuff. I had to start sweeping whole time I’m fighting I’m like I can’t jump? Started throwing and going low more often towards the later ones. When I fight against you I usually expect it to be like this, with the solid defenses and all that.
I was getting you sometimes with those roll punishes, you were rolling a lot idk if you usually do but last night you rolled so much. I see a lot of committal to some hard reads that did not end well.

[tall geode]

@knotty oriole I only really watched the last 30 minutes or so but what I saw was good horizontal AA (as usual) and great conversions off stray hits with Ryo. It did seem like you were really committed to that one range you like to stand at when your opponent is cornered. I know it’s effective and obviously I don’t personally have an answer for it, but maybe considering mixing up where you stand more. Mask your intentions and give yourself a little more room to improvise on stuff like super jumps

To your credit daru was incredibly invested in not being there if it even looked like it was possible. His entire movement priority changed so it’s possible you could start using the threat of that sooner than you currently are. Overall I thought the matches were a lot closer than the score may have indicated and came down to a single interaction more than once

[unique fjord]

@tall geode I know it's late (I may or may not have just woken up) but if you remember anything from our matches earlier and can post it here I'd be forever grateful

[tall geode]

I remember more than a little wake up 2B which I just hopped over and full punished. Blame @smoky parcel for teaching me that one. Also just buttons in general like Shermie 2C is great (has 18F of recovery on whiff) but I’m learning how to whiff punish, especially with Shun because his jacket far C has incredible range. So yeah still use it just be wary of throwing it out when I’m out of your range but still maybe in mine

[unique fjord]

@dim shadow If you have anything you noticed I'd be grateful 🙏

[torpid grotto]

Bro @tall geode Kulas light dp is unsafe on block?

Trash tier characters I swear

[tall geode]

Actual footage of Kula DP

[unique fjord]

I hate this gif so much but I can't look away

[tall geode]

Yeah it’s got a certain je ne sais quoi for sure

[unique fjord]

That's one way to put it

[knotty oriole]

She has an unsafe move?? No way!

That is a hat

[torpid grotto]

#justiceforkula #buffkula #allkulamovesneedtobeplus

[tall geode]

@knotty oriole that last set of 6, watch #4 the rounds of Liz and Shun with inputs turned on and tell me what you think about those 2C’s hitting

I picked it out at random and it wasn’t hard to find stuff

[knotty oriole]

I’ll have to check that out sometime, unless you can upload it somewhere

[tall geode]

I’ll save the replays and get some timestamps or something so we’re on the same page

[unique fjord]

@lofty radish Not to bug you about it an hour later, but if there's anything else you can think of from earlier and leave here, it would be super helpful

[lofty radish]

Hmm not a whole lot, you are progressing really well. I bet in another few weeks again, you’ll see another jump in improvement. Being less predictable is my main advice. The other things are just character specific gimmicks and knowledge checks that you need to be familiar with. My team is that way since it’s not a traditional team. Feel free to rewatch the replays and ask me any questions about them

Being able to be oppressive in your offensive approach is always good as well since KoF rewards offense

Perhaps learning how to get out of pressure when you are cornered

[unique fjord]

Awesome, thanks as always!

[unique fjord]

@lofty radish Once again I am requesting your observations, sensei

[knotty oriole]

@dull bone Sorry (but not sorry) for the unsolicited advice:

My Andy and Mary aren't very good, but for playing since last Saturday, I think I've got a decent terry

Tbh i think your Andy was the most fundamentally sound from our games last night. You played the zoning and shoto game; using fireballs and using your dp when i jumped over the fireball. You used your normals to check me. It showed me you have some experience in other FGs; is that a correct assumption?

Suggestions:

• Keep playing the patient game. If that’s your natural style, then perfect. If you prefer to rush in, I still suggest playing the patient game to develop good habits and prevent developing bad habits like trying to go in and overextend.
• Utilize more standing normals for pressure and defense. I feel you’re quite reliant on specials, especially with Terry (which is understandable; you have to play Terry’s game if the opponent loves to throw out). Throw out a button (with intention) to keep them in check. Terry’s f.D is pretty good among others. Regarding those habits I mentioned, try your best to not throw them out all the time because a good opponent with learn, download, and punish.
• Learn the ranges of your moves. This will naturally be learned over time, but try to learn them now in match or training mode. A good example of a move that requires that knowledge is Terry’s Burning Knuckle. It’s a very strong move as it can catch opponents in YOLO situations and punish from afar, but you have to learn its range. If you choose the wrong input, blocking it will result in you getting punished.
• Hold off on all the DPs. It may be tough to hold back, but throwing out DPs all the time will only develop bad habits, especially when you make the hardest of reads and do them preemptively. Learn to react with those rather than making a hard read. It will help in the long run.
• Learn and lab those combos and try to use them in match.
• Learn how to utilize frame data if you have not learned it before. No need to memorize numbers. We have a bunch of people here who just learned how to use those numbers, and are good at explaining their application.

[lofty radish]

Let me write something up later!

[unique fjord]

Take your time! I'm like an information sponge man I just want all the feedback I can get

[lofty radish]

These are fantastic advice!

[dull bone]

Yeah, I used to play what is widely known as flow-chart ken in street fighter 2 turbo

So my shoto fundamentals are down pat, it's just combo game I struggle with

[knotty oriole]

The shoto fundies definitely passed over. Just work on those combos, neutral, and safer play.

[knotty oriole]

Are you familiar with the hold buffer system in KOFXV?

[dull bone]

Kinda, usually I buffer my dp inputs, by wiggling the stick, but it seems to be a bit more intricate in this game

[knotty oriole]

On the contrary. It’s an input leniency system where during the last frames of your current move (and other situations like wake-up), you can hold the the last input of your next intended special. This allows for that next special to come out on the first possible frame. This is very useful to land those combos.

[lofty radish]

@smoky parcel feel free to post tips here for me

[smoky parcel]

For Athena I like what you did with that phoenix arrow into the grab that was cool. Your anti airs were good regardless really. Major thing, be more careful whiffing that Athena 2C, or relying on it as a counterattack after an opponent's blockstring everytime. I was able hop punish easily sometimes. I believe she can whiff cancel this move? I'm a baby Athena player. Meiten you got those DPs down, but the forward charge was a bit too early when you tried to convert from EX DP. This shouldn't take long for you to get used to with more in game practice or even in training. Ultimately try to lessen the overreliance of sweep in your neutral game, especially if you aren't whiff cancelling, and the opponent is jumping a lot. Idk about Clark, lol I kinda just wing it against him.

[lofty radish]

Thanks for this yeah. I over rely on sweep for sure! And that is prime for a hop punish. I’ll see if I can incorporate more whiff cancel for Athena 2C. My block strings and combos are kinda limited compared to most everyone here 🙂

[lofty radish]

I got so excited to do the command grab with Athena in the corner and I was so ready to show off my swag corner combo then I dropped the psycho ball input 😦

I think command grab after blocked light Phoenix arrow is safer than doing a dp

[lofty radish]

Btw is kyo completely safe after doing the up kicks? Only way I can punish is wait out the frametrap dp?

[smoky parcel]

Kyo is not safe for a lot of stuff, the pushback is the saving grace. Lol Heavy rekka unsafe. Light rekka first hit pushback is the safest special. Twin kicks, you maybe can 2b or 2a depending on character. If he doesn't delay them it's even more unsafe. 1F Command grabs can kill both of these really.

[smoky parcel]

And yeah I was like, I got grabbed in corner I was waiting for the Athena sauce

[lofty radish]

I’m so sad I failed 😞

[smoky parcel]

Next time, friend

[fickle plaza]

How tf are you able to do athena’s double half circle back super? 💀

[lofty radish]

Butter churn

[fickle plaza]

You did it off the arrow move

[fickle plaza]

Huh

[lofty radish]

Benefit of using stick

[fickle plaza]

Oh

So you’re cheating

[lofty radish]

Basically doing 360s

[lofty radish]

That’s how I do all my double half circles. Even with Clark supers

[fickle plaza]

Ahh I get you the super buffering system helps a lot too which is sick

[lofty radish]

Ask @knotty oriole I bet all stick users do it that way

[lofty radish]

You can prolly do it using the analog

[fickle plaza]

Ew🤮

I’m not @abstract swift

[smoky parcel]

Ayoooo what's wrong with analog ??

[fickle plaza]

No way not you too

Illusion shattered

https://tenor.com/view/rena-shock-scream-anime-freaking-out-gif-19871516

[knotty oriole]

Churning is also how I do double half circles and quarter circles. @fickle plaza

[fickle plaza]

Wow look at all these cheaters

MODS

take care of them.

[lofty radish]

It’s not even a shortcut. More of a long cut really

Do you use any shortcuts with the controller?

[fickle plaza]

Yes I’m a cheater also

You win this time

It depends how I’m feeling tbh

Like it’s funny how longcuts make it easier than the regular input

[lofty radish]

KoF is meant for shortcuts and longcuts. It’s why the gameplay is so fun

I’m sure the devs designed the inputs with those shortcuts and longcuts in mind

[fickle plaza]

Yeah you right I’m just busting everybody’s balls about being cheaters because I like making fun of ppl that complain about hitbox on twitter

Calling them cheaters lmao

[lofty radish]

Cheatbox 🙂 I like calling them that too

I know howl is a cheatbox user hehe

It’s all in fun though. I don’t really think they are cheaters

[fickle plaza]

Facts

My man’s can’t even short hop so

There’s no advantage

[lofty radish]

Short hopping is the easiest way to defeat me. Once @torpid grotto learns that, he can wash me easily

[fickle plaza]

Short hopping with yuri is weird

She’s soo fast im just like did I do it? 💀

[lofty radish]

It’s really good though! You got me with it and the crossup hop several times earlier today. Keep at it!

[torpid grotto]

Same as luong

They’re floaty

[fickle plaza]

Oh yeah but it’s a bit less than yuri’s

But she needs it for 214 D

Meex

[torpid grotto]

I agree I feel the same way!

Yuri gang

Imma pick her back up to troll you

[fickle plaza]

Do it imma pick mai back up to troll you

[torpid grotto]

🤝

[unique fjord]

@dim shadow Nbd if you're busy but if you have a minute to just list some stuff for me to work on I'd be super appreciative since we've been playing together a bit

[dim shadow]

General: Roll less, make sure to hit confirm your meter burns instead of just THINKING YOU GOT GOD LIKE READS 😂 (jk) learn to hop and hyper hop in pressure and to escape pressure. Utilize CD in neutral also Andy: He can literally connect 90% of his moves into a special and or command, in pressure make it a habit to go into his command normal. Toss less elbow's, learn his heavy elbow cancel to close in on your opponent and for meter gain

O.Shermie, utilize stand CD, use her orbs to control space, with ending strings you can cancel in 214C. In all honesty use her ORBS MORE but only at certain ranges (never in hop range) and learn better combos

Mama Jenet: learn her combos learn her combos, learn her combos!! Jenet has mentally illed specials and normals. Use far C into spiral 214C, jails, pushes back and is safe even though jer ex is basically safe also which is something they going to patch so (use it before you lose it) chuckles in transfem
@unique fjord

[knotty oriole]

KOFXV Frame Data

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uPQlyMB8pJhCILH0BYZNhJAO2cNq0aEZt_ifYQ6-uiI/edit

Idk how accurate these are, so make sure to double check with Dream Cancel

https://www.dreamcancel.com/wiki/The_King_of_Fighters_XV

There's an app on Android called "Frame of Fighters" that lists all the frame data for everyone on a super easy format.

[unique fjord]

Hell of a breakdown. You're the bomb!

[torpid grotto]

I’m heartbroken

@vast vine doesn’t like my nessa

[unique fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/alixx-attention-seeker-attention-seeking-attention-please-bernie-gif-25204169

@lofty radish

Advice per usual

[vast vine]

Yeah, color 8 is the only right option

[torpid grotto]

No

She has green shirt red tie white stripes

Mexican color

[vast vine]

Color 8 is white shirt, red tie and green pants

Mexican as well

Also it's similar to her og color

[torpid grotto]

No

[torpid grotto]

Olive pant

Olive is complete different

You can’t just replace red with like a merlot

Or white with Grey

And say

Oh Mexico colors

[scarlet delta]

I don’t really like the green pants as much I think her default is really cute now tbh

[vast vine]

Wow

You guys are delusional

[scarlet delta]

but im Free

can you say the same ⁉️

KOF XIII had better colors OS

idk what it is but whenever I find one of these old KOF games in like an arcade they’re always on these really dumb like “GAME ARCADE COLLECTION MACHINE” and it’ll be like 4-10+ games and have the worst joysticks of all time

And then I’ll go over and play like a Capcom machine and it’ll be nice and smoov

[vast vine]

Anyway, I'm about to drive for like 8 hours and when I get to my mom's won't be on the phone se much, so to y'all, happy holidays, enjoy your night with your loved ones @scarlet delta @torpid grotto @lofty radish @fickle plaza @knotty oriole @rocky bloom @unique fjord @smoky parcel @tall geode @vagrant plaza and apologize if I forgot someone

[scarlet delta]

Happy holidays sir 🫡

Get wrecked to everyone my bro didn’t name, I got first @ 🤡

[unique fjord]

Happy holidays buddy drive safe!

[torpid grotto]

Happy holidays

[smoky parcel]

Blessings to you friend. Enjoy your holidays and fam !

[torpid grotto]

Happy holidays

[torpid grotto]

Ah @scarlet delta is spitting the stripped pants grew on me too

[vast vine]

Dunc a pickle just like you

[torpid grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/pickle-rick-im-pickle-rick-rick-and-morty-adult-swim-rick-sanchez-gif-9420686

[scarlet delta]

don’t compare me to some Rick and morty shit brother

[torpid grotto]

@livid knot you got any advice for me?

[livid knot]

You beat me?

[torpid grotto]

So? You’re the better player

[livid knot]

Not today

[torpid grotto]

Scoreboards don’t matter, don’t be a sore better player sheesh

What do I need to work on

[fickle plaza]

Your short hops

Especially with Luong

[torpid grotto]

Thanks man

Luong isn’t staying

I just needed to give bubs my best atm

[fickle plaza]

214 from that high? Bro that’s punishable

[torpid grotto]

But never hurts to learn it

[torpid grotto]

It was to bait the dp

If timed properly it beats his dp

After doing it a couple times he didn’t always do

[livid knot]

I didnt know that

[fickle plaza]

You never pay attention when I talk about her 236

[torpid grotto]

It’s 214 no?

Her flip kick?

In the air

[fickle plaza]

My fault

I’m a bot

[torpid grotto]

Yeah

[fickle plaza]

214

[torpid grotto]

So I was using it to bait his dp

If he didn’t always resort to dps he could punish

But it’s kinda those “knowledge checks” you stop doing until the figure it out ya know

[torpid grotto]

You fr fr don’t have any advice for me

[fickle plaza]

But you were also whiffin it too

[torpid grotto]

Just say you hate me

[torpid grotto]

Hey we don’t talk about that

[fickle plaza]

bAIt dP

[torpid grotto]

Shhh

mods

Mods

MODS

[livid knot]

I dont I lost!

[torpid grotto]

You’re such a scrub! You’re the best worst player I know

You think I’ll only take advice from players I lose to!

[fickle plaza]

Last night when we played you were meatying me on oki right?

[livid knot]

I dont know the Angel gimmicks so I can't tell you what not to do with her

[torpid grotto]

You 0-3d me first set

Ok but in general

Like hops

[livid knot]

Oh yeah

[torpid grotto]

Am I too obvious with my jump ins

Defense

Anything

Sheeeesh

[livid knot]

Yeah I did anti air you with rugal

Sometimesssss

[torpid grotto]

“I beat trip once so his opinion is irrelevant” -Bubs

That’s no way to learn

[torpid grotto]

Thank you!

[fickle plaza]

For angel yes it’s just difficult to stop

[torpid grotto]

What about defense??

[livid knot]

Keep doing unblockables?

[fickle plaza]

Bro you’re a bitch go fuck yourself💀

[livid knot]

Cuz it gets me every time.

[fickle plaza]

I can’t open u up

I think it’s time I start abusing BM staggers and command grabs

I’m tired of this shit bro

Fucking block spammin

[torpid grotto]

Me?

[fickle plaza]

Now I’m really bouta be grippith

[fickle plaza]

Yahh😂

[torpid grotto]

I can mix it in. Once you start reading my patterns I need to learn the side switch

[torpid grotto]

Lol block button is my fav

Next to raw climax :kekzu:

[fickle plaza]

I know mine is the opposite not blocking

[livid knot]

I was like

https://tenor.com/view/stoned-cat-stoned-cat-funny-huh-gif-19222132

[torpid grotto]

Ok but that was calculated!

You kept blocking my fans

[livid knot]

I know but still

[torpid grotto]

I attempted it once lol

Ooh what about my mai corner pressure?

[livid knot]

Tell your gf to go away

And get back on

[livid knot]

I'm more worried about Angels

[torpid grotto]

Nah she’ll beat your ass too lol, but I need to get ready don’t blame her

[livid knot]

I hop in ranked and its a mai player

alright.

[torpid grotto]

🤣

In a serious set, I have finally beat everyone

Not saying I’m better

Because I don’t believe that

But I thought I’d feel better tbh lol

I still fucking suck

[livid knot]

@torpid grotto

Okay yer not gonna believe me

This dude only used one move for each of his characters

No exaggeration

[torpid grotto]

Wtf

[livid knot]

Like either he's trolling or...

[torpid grotto]

Why did we match up against each other in rank lol

[livid knot]

It was free points

[torpid grotto]

Just like me

[livid knot]

Okay is this the only guy I'm gonna match up with?

[torpid grotto]

Welcome to kof rank

[livid knot]

Why

[torpid grotto]

That’s just how it be

[livid knot]

He actually tried the last round

[fickle plaza]

Bubbles cheating his way to champion

[torpid grotto]

Ong boosted champion

[tall geode]

If you really want a chuckle open a public room and wait for a champion to show up. Vast majority do some type of set play or, like you said, use one move over and over

[lofty radish]

I tried public rooms the other day and actually found a room with 2 champions playing random. It’s actually a fun time cause I actually have a chance

Otherwise most public rooms are just champions playing

Which is why it’s cool to have this server

If the patch fucks up the meta though, the first few days will be very interesting as everyone tries to scramble

[tall geode]

Oh don’t get me wrong, I like playing against champions I just think it’s funny when they have 100’s of hours and can only loop a single setup. Beat that and they blue screen. Good champions like Tricky and NebularStorm are awesome to play against because they run actual mixups

[tall geode]

It’ll be interesting to see for sure! Think that’s why these tournaments have had greater variety lately, people trying to get ahead of the nerfs lol

[lofty radish]

KoF will be fun to watch again. Until the new meta develops that is

[scarlet delta]

New meta is Maxima point, Ramon mid, Billy anchor

this my new team fr

[tall geode]

Angel K’ Billy Luong Yuri Robert Shun Geese Yamazaki Antonov are some of my guesses for who gets buffed

[lofty radish]

Robert K Geese Yama don’t need buffs. They’re pretty strong already. They might get minor buffs and nerfs like everyone in mid or upper mid

[fickle plaza]

For Yuri honestly some of her normals cause the combos off her command normal to whiff and drop because her buttons are too short especially off a hyper hop

[lofty radish]

Angel will very likely get buffed and @torpid grotto will solidify himself as the best player in this server since no one can stop his angel right now even when she is low tier

Vanessa is gonna get buffed too

Mai will either get minor nerfs or nothing. There’s a small chance she might even get minor buffs but that is unlikely I think

I think Meiten will get some buffs and I’m excited for it

[tall geode]

No one can stop Howls Angel?

[lofty radish]

Clark and Athena will get minor changes at most but likely nothing

[fickle plaza]

We can stop his angel

[lofty radish]

I want an Athena buff

[lofty radish]

Howl just beat bubbles and Mac today

[fickle plaza]

It’s just that my hands were frozen

[tall geode]

I’m like 14-0 against him lately

[fickle plaza]

Smoke can stop howls bullshit

[tall geode]

He didn’t even bring her out last time lol

[lofty radish]

He has leveled up but you do have that shun runaway strat that he needs to figure out

[lofty radish]

You can ask him to bring the main team and do a ft5 or something. I know he has been gunning for you

Best way to beat angel is the runaway strat

[tall geode]

Yeah but nah. I used that for 2 days and then mixed it in because it’s way more effective if I do it alongside his rushdown

[lofty radish]

Mixup is definitely better than being predictable

[tall geode]

I just honestly had never tried his aerial stuff in real matches

[lofty radish]

I’m sure howl is targeting you once you are back. He has a hit list

[tall geode]

Yeah he said that. We play a set maybe 2 and then he leaves. Would love to grind out more sets

[lofty radish]

I’m sure he’s down

We have done ft10 or 2 ft5 multiple times

[tall geode]

Yeah I’d be up for that. There was a time when my whole team was mixed around (Robert mid suuuuucks btw) and I had to learn how to play Shun with no meter. It was actually really helpful because it forced me to go in the lab and figure out how to beat certain options

Like his j.C is a godlike air to air it beats Angel j.D clean

Wouldn’t have learned that if I wasn’t ok going on a losing streak

[torpid grotto]

Jan Buffs Howl Buff

Also @tall geode I am looking to beat you punk. I only leave after 1-2 because we usually catch ourselves on late and I don’t stay on too late but I’m down for a long set

I’m crossing off names off my list

[jolly badge]

Ummm you just became a mod. You've been buffed.

[torpid grotto]

Checking it twice

Imma be double buffed

https://tenor.com/view/goku-dragon-ball-level-up-anime-gif-gif-22760068

[jolly badge]

Lmao right your mod arc.

[torpid grotto]

Then once I beat everyone here I have to pick up strive for my Howl vs Concave Tournament Arc

[jolly badge]

Lmao except you'd have to play strive 🤢🤮

[torpid grotto]

More like howl vs mods since I’ll take on the phallanx too

[torpid grotto]

There’s certain sacrifices a man must make for juri pout face emotes

[jolly badge]

Welp since I ain't interested in Strive you're SOL. But footgang emotes may be a worthy sacrifice.

[tall geode]

Ok ok ok sheesh no need for the name calling 👐 lol. You calling it good after a single win tho or what’s the deal?

[torpid grotto]

2 wins

[tall geode]

And that’s that? Seems a little…what’s the word

[torpid grotto]

Nah ft10

[tall geode]

Aight cool

[rocky bloom]

Champions in public rooms pick Yashiro, Broken Jenet or Kula and toss up the Pikachu face when nobody wants to play with them 🤣

[tall geode]

That or King/Joe/Andy/Robert/Athena and spam fireball. Or any number of other things. Iori taco is up there too

[scarlet delta]

A lot of times when I see Yuri Combo vids they just skip the command normal

[rocky bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/lookaway-looking-omg-dontlook-ohdamn-gif-5530702

[fickle plaza]

Yeah I’m thinking of doing that

[scarlet delta]

https://youtu.be/juPrrQPPUBw

[smoky parcel]

This is a pretty good guide. But light confirms are pretty self explanatory after seeing these

[fickle plaza]

I didn’t know she could link 2A 2C

[smoky parcel]

Yeah. I believe Ryo can do this as well some family stuff

[torpid grotto]

@fickle plaza

Real advice or you trolling?

One light confirms you rely on your gimmicks a bit too much, like luong moon hop over to the other side and low poke, isla movement, BM overhead,slide

Start utilizing your lights and less so gimmicks they work wonders for you against worse players like me

Daru and bubs or tricky will blow you up

BM you’re too quick to go into double ex combo or QM, QM is best for a poke/combo conversion and a great way to get damage in but at times you deplete yourself of 4/5 for close to 50 percent where you can go for close, command normal lvl1 or lvl2 climax for closer to the 60–80 percent threshold

Too many times do you whiff punish, roll and get full punish point blank and go for QM even though you can do full combo

QM adds wayyyyy to much scaling, closing a match out or winning the advantage is very crucial however relying on it where you can just full combo instead is a worse use of your meter if you’re gonna spend it

Remember less is best, double ex combos you really should just end with that or lvl 1 at most. 1-2 bars, if you know you’re gonna spend all of it don’t do the full combo just do simple lvl1 lvl 2 it’ll net you more damage

And seeing as you really only go for these with BM then it’s even more important

This is why mac’s terry is insane and I actually think mac may be the best qm user here. He is very good at using unscaled damage vs qm when needed

[fickle plaza]

Yeah so for this part the luong thing where I hop over you is actually an error, the isla 6B is all gimmicks for sure, the blue Mary raw slicers I throw out the shortest one is just to check your toes but raw slicers like the longass ones are pretty bad that’s why I sparingly use them, wdym by BM overhead?

[torpid grotto]

Her flip kick

[fickle plaza]

Oh no I actually need to do that like no cap that apart of her block string it does have a slight gap though

[torpid grotto]

Also angel specific that aa grapple be careful with angel as depending the angel the cross up might miss it, you won’t get hit by it but then you’re opened. Against everyone else bayblade it

[fickle plaza]

But it’s for the slicer that a low mix

[torpid grotto]

Right I agree it’s good, but also go for her 2a 2b or whatever BM has

Mind you I’m not saying anyyyy of what you do is bad, moon jump, slide, isla it’s great and part of their tool kits

However shouldn’t be all you do

You feel me?

[fickle plaza]

Yeah I get you’re saying like stagger more and I couldn’t agree more that’s what I’ve been actually working on believe or not for a while I just gotta apply it

[torpid grotto]

Yeah don’t worry bro it takes Time to learn and equal if not longer to apply

But when you stop trolling you’re pretty good

Also BMs counter grab

Where she like ducks and motions for you to hit her?

That’s gonna be more read wise

Sometimes it feels like you end blockstrings with it at random hoping your opponent mashes and you’ve eaten a lot of j.cs like that

I would say focus more on just pure 2a 2b re hop pressure and slowly pick up on your opponents habits

For example smoke will refuse to not take his turn

He will 2b 2b 2b your ass

That counter would work great to condition him not to

I’m more willing to block/lose a turn and play a little safer

So just throwing it out without reading me might cause a big ass punish