#KOF Coaching

1 messages · Page 17 of 1

rancid marlin
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brother u worried bout the wrong things.. the wrong things..

split grotto
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It's thinking about why did I do that, since it was not a good decision in most situations in a given match.

spring relic
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Says who?

lament mirage
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There is no good or bad decisions necessarily

spring relic
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A lot of players’ problems is that they play too fast

lament mirage
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It's abt risk assessment

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Think about it like this, if they rolled or ran forward or jumped, or did an advancing move, what's the difference? You were still in the same spot to punish them

rancid marlin
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Bro is really complaining about winning

grim crypt
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The player Krohnen took a big gamble and you punished him for it sure it could of been a heavy starter but you still metled his health bar

lament mirage
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several ppl are typing

spring relic
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“I got a full roll punish QM meter dump anchor combo. I suck so hard at this game.”

warped pine
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poor Rank 10 player got styled on so hard they may have quit 😂

split grotto
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Like it's all about reactions and anticipation, I didn't do that there.

grim crypt
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Bro you punished his roll

lament mirage
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And reads

split grotto
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Because my ass was MASHING

lament mirage
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And it worked

spring relic
grim crypt
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You made the choice and they decided to roll round start and you punished them for it

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it ain't that deep

lament mirage
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Mashing is as viable as any combo or defense, it's not the tool but the application

grim crypt
lament mirage
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Which is why I suck at mashing

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Never know when to do it

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So I don't, yknow?

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Er

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I try not to

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But you got the situation, even if it was by chance it worked

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Fortune favors the bold and all

split grotto
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I wouldn't be having this deep over analysis if like, I could just play. It feels this game favors more like all in bets, reads, anticipation and reactions. That was like none of them. Since if I lose I gotta figure out what I'm getting punished for or what I'm losing to. Me standing there is an invitation for an ass beating in another game.

lament mirage
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Not quite, it isn't

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What you did was an application of "Yomi"

rancid marlin
lament mirage
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It's a valid strategy, considering nobody would be crazy enough to do nothing in a fighting game

split grotto
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It's because you gotta learn something from losing right?

lament mirage
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You can learn from all engagements

rancid marlin
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Thinking bout the next game cause you were standing still and won

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Move on to the next match and see what happens then

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You thinking too far ahead

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It hasn’t even happened yet

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I’m so confused

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If you won then you caught them lacking simple and clean

split grotto
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If it's about risk assessment, not trying to steal from Cien. That wasn't a good option, the same way using sweep in hop in distance isn't a good option right?

rancid marlin
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The best option is the one that actually works

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Don’t worry about all that other stuff man

split grotto
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Look, I'll give it a try and not think to hard. But I've been under the impression. Since this game is so hard for me to play, there's no shot it's that easy. "If you win you win, if you don't you don't"

spring relic
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You are overthinking everything to your detriment

lament mirage
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If you never mash, then it's risk goes down

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The hardest punch, the one to victory, is the one your opponent never sees coming

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Use my words, Tyler, but see them for more than what they appear

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Yes, mashing can be risky, but so can any other move if you use it too much

rancid marlin
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it'll be easier for you to actually process your progress

spring relic
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This would be like earlier, instead of me getting hype over SS —> Climax that netted me a W, I said “That was so lame and worthless cause it’s beyond basic and would never work against a real player.”

Instead of taking pride in that I exploited a pressure gap with a universal mechanic.

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Not some high execution frame trap OS

split grotto
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Until like later on

sinful herald
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analysis_paralysis

Analysis paralysis

Analysis paralysis (or paralysis by analysis) describes an individual or group process where overanalyzing or overthinking a situation can cause forward motion or decision-making to become "paralyzed", meaning that no solution or course of action is decided upon within a natural time frame. A situation may be deemed too complicated and a decisio...

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You in this thread Tyler

rancid marlin
sinful herald
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Fighting games are about making a choice and committing

spring relic
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What you take from the clip you posted is that you won neutral and were right at least 4 times

sinful herald
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Unless you think you’re supposed to not make any mistakes and triple perfect your opponent

spring relic
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But you don’t have the oki skills to capitalize on it and thus gain more control over the situation

warped pine
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All I see in that clip is bullying 😅

grim crypt
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All I see is someone being impatient and trying to escape the corner

split grotto
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I failed on the SS, I failed on the first throw attempt, did no pressure until like I jumped in kinda obviously, didn't OTG, and threw the wrong way after that roll.

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That's what I see when I look at the clip

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This is legitimately why I'm asking, how am I supposed to feel about the clip

sinful herald
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Bro see my earlier point about giving ourselves credit for the things we get right

grim crypt
sinful herald
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I can’t do that for you

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Zero can’t do that for uou

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Daru can’t do that for you

grim crypt
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those are minor mistakes that you made that anyone here can make

sinful herald
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YOU have to acknowledge

split grotto
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I got that, I got that. Am I supposed to ignore the mistake that were made though

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It feels important to notice those

warped pine
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Yes, because you crushed your opponent's spirit 🤣

lament mirage
sinful herald
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I would say ignoring and hyper fixating are equally undesirable

lament mirage
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See it, recognize it, and then move on

sinful herald
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Recognize it and if needed make an adjustment. But for the sake of the universe be less hard on yourself man damn. It’s not doing you any favors

lament mirage
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Think abt it like this

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Everyone can and will make mistakes, the best thing, I think, will then be to learn to minimize the fallout when the time comes to pass

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But worrying about making the mistakes is where you're at

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In my observation

split grotto
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Alright, I'll give it a try. I'm just saying this is what I notice what I notice when I watch the clips or just games I post. I rarely am trying to flex. Since I'm just trying to figure out how to look at the games still.

lament mirage
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Fair enough, I can give my advice on video review should you ask

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As well as point to a few videos

split grotto
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Since the way I've always seen it. Have to many small mistakes in building a house it'll fail inspection.

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So that's why they need to brought to the forefront over what was done correctly

lament mirage
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That is true since it is a safety concern since that house will be the authority of someone else's life, so all mistakes must be crushed with utmost scrutiny

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Fighting games are a chaotic flow of choices being made rapidly with in the span of 5-20 mins

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They are very different situations

warped pine
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Lots of mistakes were made in the Top 8 of Evo

lament mirage
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Look at Kazeku

split grotto
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Alright, I'll try to look at it not under the microscope as much.

lament mirage
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If it becomes a trend, that is when you should worry

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And then work from there

raven ridge
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@split grotto
Whip: focus on staying at hyperhop-jump range. jCD is really good if you wanna go in or contest the air space. She has really good crossup/ways to get in with her air control, she definitely has the edge in zoning and unconventional ways of getting in. Only counter that I can think of is someone who really knows the matchup. Requires you to be very active and be on top of setting the pace of the match.

Leona: her neutral is weird because it's very strike focused. You need the meter & the corner to make some big damage but I've seen some pretty big booms in midscreen. You're mostly trying to play in the neutral and when you're pushing pressure, it's to dump the meter & damage.

Yama: his snake arm thing is usually the focal point of his neutral. The strings end innit, they toss that shit out regularly to control space. You get pressured and his counter lasts 5ever and is quite reliable. His corner pressure is pretty devastating because he's got some nice high/low/OTG pressure that makes people scramble more often times than not

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I kinda took this approach with Cien when he was still trying to find an identity with his team/as a player too, mess around with this and see if you find success @split grotto

split grotto
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I mean, I do pretty much a version of all of this. I don't zone enough with Whip for sure. I was hitting Dyl today with more rush down and an occasional neutral jump jC.

Yeah talking to the Leona cord, they say it's by player you're fighting since there isn't a set way to do it.

And Yama is like, I contest space with his fuck ass large buttons but yeah getting rushed down feels real bad when it happens. Watching Lokof earlier I just am really missing the anti airs. I have the tick throw command grab, overhead, low snake arms and confirms.

At least that's my opinion if I'm being positive about it. Anyone's who fought me feel free to give your opinion

raven ridge
magic harness
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Ok
So...
How tf do y'all adapt so fast?
I just played a Ft20 with Bubs in SF6, before that a Ft30 with Soul there too
Yesterday, I fought Zero the whole day in Kof, and I actually always feel like I do worse and worse the longer the sets are.

Idk if I just get tired too soon and start auto piloting, or if my opponents just learn my shit and I can't do anything anymore
Probably a mix of both

AND I also can't adapt well to them, I feel like I notice what they are doing and I am good at stopping their offense. But like, Idk how to vary my offense so I can still actually attack instead of just sitting still

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And it's always like that
It was like 9-1 for me against Bubs today
And then boom
It's 13-20

Same against Tricky last time I played her
I opened like 6-1
And then boom
It's 6-10

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Like wtf?
Am I that predictabo after I show everything I have?

raven ridge
meager portal
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Like with geese, I know you know I like to do jump ins, so you do parry, but I do empty hop throw as a way to not only bait that parry, but to beat it entirely.

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It's mostly just a matter of recognizing your opponents habits and tendencies and then using it against them since it basically telegraphs their actions

magic harness
meager portal
# meager portal It's mostly just a matter of recognizing your opponents habits and tendencies an...

Matter of fact, earlier today I was fighting @split grotto and getting my shit rocked by whip and Leona until I eventually realized that he was beating all my lows and jump ins by jumping over me and j.CD'ing a ton, so I baited those and in our last set, I was able to bring it back 2-1.
You just gotta be flexible with how you play each of your characters and learn different approaches for each one so that way you can cover most options your opponent might use

magic harness
meager portal
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Learn geese's lights into rekka

split grotto
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Oh I didn't mean to change my name is this discord

meager portal
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Geese 2b is kinda slept on

magic harness
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Yeah, 2B, 2A, Rekka is my go to

split grotto
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I guess it'll stick for now

meager portal
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Rukia rocks

magic harness
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But still...
One more option
That my opponent will catch on later on the set

meager portal
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If an opponent catches on later in a set to your habits and such, it usually implies you're being super predictabo and not varying your gameplay enough

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Because on average, it takes at least a complete set or two for someone to catch onto what you're doing

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Sometimes though, they could just be simple knowledge checks which can totally happen, and those are the ones to watch out for

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Also, just now noticing the absolute wall of text I just typed out..
Sorry readers😅

magic harness
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Small sets are fine
I feel like I have enough to be able to get like 2 Ft2s from almost anyone
But if we're doing a Ft10?
After like, the 6th game, I have no idea what to do anymore
Since I've already done and shown everything I have

magic harness
split grotto
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I think FT is a mental endurance test

meager portal
split grotto
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Like taking multiple tests in a row

meager portal
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But then again, any time the opponent has to sniff out your habits, is also time you have to find out their habits

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It works both ways

rancid marlin
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The fun truly begins when you both catch on to what eachother do and play with super heightened observation

meager portal
split grotto
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Yeah I don't think I started to command grab against Dyl until later in the sets

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The whole point of having a bag of tricks is "You have a bag of them"

magic harness
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Makes a lot of sense tbh
Thank you so much

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Everyone

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I'll do my best to get better at that
I think it might be a mentality problem

spring relic
sinful herald
grim crypt
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Yeah he started watching bleach not to long ago

sinful herald
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I watched the first 3 seasons thought it was awesome, went to watch season 4 and then decided it ended at S3 lol

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Rukia is goated tho

sinful herald
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You almost never do nothing on your wake up. It’s always back dash, roll, wake up buttons or supers

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This makes you vulnerable to stuff like safe jumps and just…waiting to block the huge reversal. Not saying always do nothing but always doing something on wake up is predictable

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Mixups aren’t just for offense

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If you only occasionally show that you’re a wild one then your opponent is more likely to block on your wake up, which is a huge win because now it’s back to neutral

split grotto
# sinful herald Rukia from Bleach?

Yeah I was watching it only to get my one friend to shut up about it. Then I was like "Ay yo, Rukia kinda sick with it and funny" so now I'm on episode like 166

magic harness
slate mica
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I think the operative idea here is you don't block on wakeup

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I haven't played you in hella days, but that's just how I'm interpreting it

magic harness
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AH
Right
Sorry, it's 7h a.m.
My brain hasn't fully awakened yet

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But ok, makes sense
I never paid attention to that tbh
I feel like I almost always just block on wake up
Specially against Zero and Smoke, since 90% of their knockdowns become safe jumps

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Unless I see they misstiming smt or when I want to go for the Lv1 into Cmd Grab robbery

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Lmao

sinful herald
# magic harness Unless I see they misstiming smt or when I want to go for the Lv1 into Cmd Grab ...

All of Shermies cmd grabs lose to safe jumps btw

And we hadn’t played in a while up until the other day, but I definitely saw a lot of activity on your wake up.

Did you have a bar and did Angel just get knocked down? Bet the farm on counter super coming out. Same with Billy flame spin

Is Shermie getting up? I’ll just neutral jump at the last second to avoid 1F grab. Did I do that last time? Did it work? Ok this time I’ll stand there and watch her fly over my head whiffing air cmd grab

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Stuff like this

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And again it’s not like I’m saying to always do nothing and just block, but if you dialed it back even just a little you’d:

-get up for free more often because they are expecting you to do a reversal

-not lose a character off a big bet in round 2/3 aka a critical juncture in the match

magic harness
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Lmao

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But thank you so much for the advice
I'll be sure to mix up more my options on wake up

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Then again, I think even about offense, this is actually a mentality problem
I just have to pay attention and actually choose what to do instead of just going with what my guts tell me

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I feel like I think too little during fights
I just go on instinct most of the time

sinful herald
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I mean these games are fast as fuck so it makes sense, also the way our brains are wired means that we tend to repeat behavior that gets rewarded

This is why stuff like this exists

lament mirage
sinful herald
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Stuff like forward rolls and wake up supers work at the early level because no one can answer appropriately

magic harness
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Lmfao

sinful herald
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Then it become a bad idea at the intermediate level

magic harness
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But it's fine
I'll beat you someday

sinful herald
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Then at the highest of levels it becomes a good idea again because it’s “dumb” so people are looking for it as a first option

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We’re smack in the intermediate level which is why you get punished for it

magic harness
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Makes A LOT of sense

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I'll be sure to remember that

sinful herald
sinful herald
# lament mirage Damn

AFAIK the only move that beats safe jumps is Geese counter but even that can be baited by doing a fake safe jump or an empty safe jump

magic harness
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Before Oli brought me here, I had never played any human if not in ranked
Besides my brothers, ofc

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Lmao

sinful herald
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Ranked is great to simulate brackets because anything can happen in a FT2 and only the best players can make adjustments that fast

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It’s not great for exposing our shortfalls because like you mentioned at the beginning of this conversation, you’ll have a lead and then it falls apart

magic harness
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Not that great a place to actually learn the basics and essentials
Specially when you're completely new at the game

sinful herald
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I’d say it serves a purpose to a point and then long sets are where it’s at for quite a while before ranked becomes useful again

magic harness
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Yup
Exactly
I'm focusing on those long sets for now

sinful herald
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Take me for example, I should definitely get back on KOF ranked but the longer wait times kinda kill my motivation to do so

magic harness
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I don't even want Immortal tbh
I just hate seeing Rank 31 there
I need either 30 or 35
Lmfao

magic harness
sinful herald
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Yeah the matches come almost too fast in SF haha

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I can only do about 5 sets before I need to stop and think

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No matter how good or bad those sets went

magic harness
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True
Sometimes I click on it, and then instantly decide to cancel
But I just don't have enough time to even click the cancel button
Lmfao

sinful herald
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As far as splitting between the games, yeah it’s tough. Best I’ve been able to come up with is to just commit to a block of time and don’t go back and forth multiple times a day

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So I’ll play one until I’m “done” and then go to the other

magic harness
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Oh yes
Exactly

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And I'm actually more focused on SF than Kof nowadays
I play SF seriously and then go to Kof to relax when I'm tilted

sinful herald
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I played a ton of SF in the 2 months leading up to EVO but am now going for balance

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KOF does feel more like home tho but it’s prob just a familiarity thing

grim crypt
magic harness
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I love Kof with all my strength
But SF is my first FG, and SFV my first serious one
So I feel like SF is my home

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Actually
My first FG and first game ever was Dragon Ball Budokai 2
LMFAO

sinful herald
magic harness
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Get those DR combos

sinful herald
magic harness
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Back to KOF Coaching tho
More specific question now
Trick to beat Yuri?
I just hate her so much
Lmfao

sinful herald
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Learn her jump arcs

magic harness
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I hear everyone saying she has stubby limbs?
Maybe I can out neutral her?

sinful herald
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Some are some aren’t

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Far C is a god button same with far D

magic harness
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Hm...
I'll come up with smt
Lmao

sinful herald
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Both whiff on crouchers so if you can run up low you’ll catch her

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But like most rush down characters the best answer is usually don’t let them get started and in Yuris case also don’t give her a lot of space or she can zone

magic harness
magic harness
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Sylvie is still being tested

grim crypt
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So it's a bit different for Ryo since he's WAY easier than Heidern but this is the process I used to learn Heidern and now he's a scary member on my team

Day 1
do the trials for that character and mess around in training mode for bit to get a feel for their buttons/special moves,speed,and jump arcs.
So the trials are bad in this game imo but for the most part they do give you a decent idea when it comes to hit confirms and what have you. Now when that is done you hop into training mode and just get a feel for them(and if you feel over extending on day 1 you can see what buttons can cross up and what frame traps etc)

Day 2
You fact check dream cancel and start experimenting with their tool kit(assuming you haven't done this already on day 1, if so just get it in your muscle memory more and see what you can learn)
Now this may seem redudant but it's better to this now than later and get fusttrated and confused why people keep mashing on you

Day 3
Learn combos (everyone's favorite) and safe jumps (this is more important imo)
Yes now you can learn some combos and safe jumps. They don't have to optimal just enough to get you by. My rule of thumb when learning combos is
Basic hit confirm from lights/jump in
Combo for spending half a bar
combo for ending in super
and a combo that uses 1.5 bars (could be 2 bars or more depending on the characters combo theory)

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Day 4&5
Watch replays to get a feel for neutral and offense/defense for the character
This is the most important part and you can easily do this in earlier days if you want to since it doesn't hurt to know early what the character can and cannot do. Now for day 5 if feel like after watching enough replays on day 4 you wanna play matches with the character you should go for it now that can be online matches right away(prefeably ask in discord groups so you don't have to fight the idiots that infest rank or get your shit pushed in casual mode) or maybe just ease yourself in while playing arcade mode/agasint the bots up to you (I'm fortunate enough to have people to play with offline since they live down the street where I live)

Day 6
Play matches with the character but ONLY put them on point no matter what
I don't care if you are playing Antonov and you need that bar, PLAY THAT CHARACTER ON POINT. You need to get a feel for them someway so even if you plan on playing that character mid or anchor play them point to build that confidence with that character. That way if you do pivot them to mid or anchor now you have meter to play with. A good measure to see if you are progressing with the character is to see how many times you won the point war with them

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If you have any questions let me know @sinful herald

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And anyone else as well

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I didn't mention it but obviously look over your replays when you can so that could be a hypothetical day 7

sinful herald
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@snow beacon could this get a pin? Not sure we have a primer for learning a new character and I think others might find this helpful

snow beacon
magic harness
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I'd just add on Day 2 or 3
"Use Luna as Training Dummy. Perfect way to test out the combos and safe jumps."

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Lmfao

grim crypt
grim crypt
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Oh and thanks for the kind words Luna and Smoke I know most people want to speed up the learning process sometimes and that is completely fine but sometimes a more methodical approach that I use could help someone out

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I hope anyway

split grotto
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Maybe because I'm newer to KOF still. I always have trouble watching replays of my character and picking anything up that's character specific

grim crypt
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It's a skill you pick up overtime

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Being able to watch other replays and taking something away from them

sinful herald
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Oops looks like only part of it was pinned @snow beacon

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And thanks!

split grotto
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Like I had to re watch the Maxx.sev vs that Narukami like nearly 8 times with a week or more in-between, to pick up something new.

sinful herald
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Well done

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In my case I absolutely prefer a road map. Just going for it is great too but my personality prefers a little structure

grim crypt
magic harness
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This is a very good way to learn a new char

sinful herald
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I’ve heard “Perfect is the enemy of good”

magic harness
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Welp, in portuguese, we say something like
"Hurrying is the enemy of perfection"
Along the lines of "The faster you do smt, the less perfect it'll be"

split grotto
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"Perfection is only a habit"

snow beacon
split grotto
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It's so weird, I'm having an alright time playing the game, but trying to improve as been what's ruining my gameplay experience by so much

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What I am supposed to do? I just want to like enjoy the game but I'm just seeing problems and I leave having a headache

split grotto
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Alright, let me ask if this is what I'm supposed to do? Am I supposed to drop the game?

sinful herald
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And stop being able to recognize that they are doing something well

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Because they are too hyper fixated on “perfection” which isn’t really possible

grim crypt
split grotto
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Alright I asked since it an option that was directly brought to me.

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It's not my preferred option either

slate mica
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How long do I have to practice the same shit until I get it through my thick fucking skull to incorporate it into matches? Like, I feel like it goes beyond skill issue at this point. Now it feels like ignorance. There is no reason to be playing for 2 years and not advancing past the Newbie/Beginner level of play

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Like, how long's it take y'all?

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Also, how do I stop being so fucking slow? I swear, I learn at a fucking snail's pace in this game.

grim crypt
warped pine
slate mica
slate mica
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Let's also not forget you currently have a winning record against me

grim crypt
grim crypt
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Learning things at a snail's pace isn't a bad thing

rancid marlin
# slate mica Like, how long's it take y'all?

I say for me it took a cool 6-8 months from having the game to where I felt like I got a lil something decent going on at least. I was able to finesse and win a decent amount at least. KOF systems and games like this and SF I didn’t play so this was some new shit I had to get out the mud fr. Shout out to patience and me just enjoying the game, cause if I didn’t I wouldn’t of cared enough to even play it like that. I’ll add that this game was the first discord stuff I got into as well, so being in discord made me wayyyy better.

sinful herald
# slate mica Like, how long's it take y'all?

How much new stuff are you trying to incorporate? Also, it’s gonna depend on what the new thing is bc some are easier than others. Also also it’s easier to build on things in a certain order (more on that in a bit)

I was feeling pretty good last fall when I got here and was able to take some games and also on ranked. Then it got pointed out to me that I never went for low light starters (fr like EVER). It was all run up heavy into safe special thus ending my turn and making me quite predictable

So I made it a goal to learn run up low with my characters in December and then went on the most epic losing streak of all time lol. Like I didn’t beat anyone because I was so single minded on this. I’d say it took until about April to really stick so, 5ish months

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Now that I’ve gotten comfortable with that I’ve started the process all over again with low profiling jump ins. Naturally this means I get kicked in the face a lot and lose a lot because I don’t yet have the awareness to think about my opponents jump in options, on the fly

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So first thing I’d say is this: set a SMALL goal. If you have pages upon pages it’s information overload and while it’s good to reach for the stars it’s also good to have something a little closer on the horizon

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It should fit on a flash card

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Here’s my current one

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Hope this helps and don’t forget that this journey we are on kinda never stops

split grotto
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I know the conversation is kind of over. But I couldn't find a use for frame traps off of CD, I never threw, I'd play a zoner without zoning, the works. I swear for the first like 4 months or so all I could do was combo off of a low starter and a heavy starter. Now I've hit the wall where I started to struggle to open people up and go through neutral. Plus I still haven't gotten over the hump of "feeling out KOF". I've been trying to exhaust all of my resources multiple times. I got told by juicebox to anticipate more, the. I tried to anticipate and was told to react. So I'm confused on that still. Was told to use anticipation to react but I'm not there yet. Etc. I learn slow, so I feel you Lou.
Especially as I've been making the game less fun because I've been so worried about improving. I'm about an inch away from just saying "I'm just gonna fuck around and find out" in live games and just ask questions.

slate mica
#

I appreciate the feedback, all. I'm just, like, yeah, getting single-minded about too much and missing different opportunities. I see now. Like, specifically, I had a match against a Kyo who just spammed Bodega strings, CD, and 3D in neutral and on every oki attempt would just use crossup j.B. And I didn't use any aerial offense because I was just trying to make lows work and create space with 5Bs. Execution-wise, this Kyo dropped many combos, but I just couldn't win any neutral interaction. I was too focused on the frame data/ frame advantage and didn't consider alternative methods to punish or keep him out.

I was able to beat a Dino using these methods though later yesterday, so I know there is some degree of understanding. It just gets difficult when the feedback loop isn't readily apparent. But I'm a scientist, I can look into that stuff. It's just a matter of understanding at this point ig. Idk. Anyways, appreciate the insight.

#

I wasn't ever that great at school, and just tried brute forcing a lot of learning. Finding I need to adapt my learning style now

spring relic
#

One of the things I love about FGs and KOF is it forces you get proactive about overcoming your “lizard brain.”

#

For a long time I would think to myself “WTF?! I’ve exhausted all. My. Options! and yet my opponent is always right. Where is my 50/50?

#

Go back and check the replay…

#

Turns out I was actually attempting the same approach 90% of the time

#

So don’t get me wrong, it is very difficult to be deliberate in the heat of a match, especially in a fast game like KOF. But sometimes you gotta be very intentional about going against your habits.

slate mica
#

Ultimately, the match should've been over after I hit the Shatter Strike, but I botched the 6B

sinful herald
#

@slate mica one thing I’m not sure about is where you’re doing this experimenting. I would say ranked is prob the worst place to do that and discord matches are the best

slate mica
#

On one hand, friendlies are probably the best place to experiment. On the other, ranked get you experience against other types of fighters (Dinosaur, Kukri, Shingo to name a few). So I'm relying to very the approach.

On the other hand, yeah, that does need to come with a different set of expectations

sinful herald
#

The problem with experimenting in ranked is the same problem with doing it in tournaments. It’s a super short set and we prob don’t know what they are capable of unless you’re a regular

And that’s not even factoring in all the clowns who learned one degen thing and are just gonna do it over and over and over again

#

I view ranked and bracket as places to do what I know I can do

#

If you want to experiment against randoms open up a public lobby and run games until you’re good for a bit

#

My 3 cents anyway

slate mica
#

That's fair. Okay, I see your point. And that degenerate stuff can be so specific

grim crypt
#

Smoke added an extra cent

spring relic
#

Just gonna throw something out there:

I know there is a lot to be mindful of in KOF, and one can easily get snowballed. But I am consistently amazed by how one simple adjustment can completely turn the tides of a match.

One thing you can bet on with good KOF players is that if they find something worth doing to you, they will do it over and over again.

slate mica
slate mica
spring relic
#

“I can’t do this.”

“I can’t do that.”

“I can’t beat this character.”

“KOF 2 hard. When’s Tekken / MK?”

#

The answer to all of this: just play

#

For real: daily exposure therapy will go a long way

split grotto
#

Alright, I'm not asking this for a self serving reason or anything.

Am I supposed fight like in novice matchmaking? As I look at my Win Loss, I definitely know that I lose a significantly higher amount of game than I win. I understand I'm not bad or like beginner level but I'm always torn up on where I'm supposed to aim for with matchmaking

magic harness
# split grotto Alright, I'm not asking this for a self serving reason or anything. Am I suppos...

In all honesty, I'd say do what makes you feel good
I mean, don't be like those guys who go to novice Matchmaking just to OCV actual beginners
But like, for example, me
I enjoy having my ass handed to me by stronger opponents, and I feel like that's when I actually learn the game and stuff
But sometimes, I don't wanna learn, and these are times I enjoy the most playing basically anyone, beginner or not, I just relax and do whatever
Play on random, Idk

split grotto
#

I try to only think about winning or losing, but I don't ever have a goal in the matches I play. At least nothing ever in the forefront of my brain.
IE, I was told that Whip's DP is useful for anti airing but I don't need to do it super early with a hard read like Zero does. I did it like 3 times today.

But otherwise I just try to play the game to get better but to me there isn't much of a difference from when I first started to about now. Since I definitely still lose about the exact same.

magic harness
split grotto
#

It's like I'll beat him every once in a while. Or at least get him to anchor. Unlike Smoke, bro treats me like a paid actor.

I know it's a mental thing, but losing consistently really does make it feel that I haven't moved the needle

split grotto
#

@sinful herald I've said it before I think. But I feel this game is so damn hard because I still have like zero idea how any of this game works about like half of the time.
Personally I think the only difference between now and when I first started is I can hop.

#

Would also like to point out, since I've switched to this team I haven't changed it. But it's like a coin flip if any of the characters do anything.

sinful herald
sinful herald
split grotto
#

I don't feel that my neutral still losses incredibly often, I feel I can't defend so I never am on the offense. Unless like they have trouble fighting whip

spring relic
#

Asking the obvious: you watch Dandy J?

#

If not, watch it

#

And if you have, watch it again

split grotto
#

Never heard of them/it

sinful herald
#

Have you read the pins in here Tyler? This one isn’t but there’s some good stuff

split grotto
#

OHh that video

#

Zero sent that one to me when I first started but it felt like a college level lecture at that time

sinful herald
#

I think I felt the same the first time I watched it, it does get easier with repeated views

#

Matter of fact I think I’ll watch it again now, it’s been a minute

spring relic
#

It makes more sense after clocking time in with the game

grim crypt
spring relic
#

But there is a reason why KOF players always reference this video, as the info is still golden over a decade later

#

It’s considered the “KOF Bible”

slate mica
#

I have to rewatch it every month or so because I can never retain everything

split grotto
#

Alright, playing with Daru. My Yamazki has my weakest neutral by far. Since I don't move. Is there where I throw him on point to get a better idea of his gameplan?

grim crypt
magic harness
#

He works well on point
About his movement tho...
I have to be honest
I do tend to move less with him too

split grotto
#

Alright, this has been such a weird situation. Since about all of my characters have been on point in reverse order. Since Whip is my newest and Yama is my oldest

magic harness
#

Just be prepared to 2C as anti air and far C into snake arm to check dashes and stuff

#

He is a heavy character, much like Antonov and Goenitz
So you have to have a feel for him

#

He is MUCH slower than Leona and Whip, you can't expect him to move around as much as them
But you can expect to have a better chance at just holding your ground and slowly move foward, taking away from your enemy their space

split grotto
#

It's like, since that one match with Zero where I missed 2C multiple times. I just gave up on using it, and same thing with me starting to constantly question when I should CD so it flew out the window for 8/10 interactions for me.

magic harness
#

I don't think he even has a crossup
His j. Buttons are good, but he is too straightforward to just jump endlessly like Leona and Whip

magic harness
spring relic
#

Yamazaki is meant to be a wall

split grotto
#

Well, no wonder I can't play him

lament mirage
#

Wall of snakes

#

And himbos

split grotto
#

I had a problem when I first started where I couldn't get to people. At least now I can do that somewhat.

But being a moving wall like Ryo, is the hardest thing for me because I can't take turns back

lament mirage
#

Mood

split grotto
#

Like according to Daru my pressure with him is pretty alright, but I'm never doing pressure

lament mirage
#

What do you define as pressure?

#

As dumb as that sounds, it's not always making them block

#

Making your opponent scared of a particular option is also pressure

#

Be it from moving forward, throwing a projectile, hell make them stop jumping and pressing buttons is its own pressure

#

Like, would you hop at a Rock player that has 2 bars and they just threw a Reppuken?

split grotto
#

I mean, command grabs, left foot let's stomp, CD into snake arm, snake arm, regular grab, and my favorite. CD feint into left foot let's stomp

lament mirage
#

.......

#

Oh the Overhead

#

I was like "wtf" for a min

split grotto
#

Like I have that there when I'm at least in range

lament mirage
#

Have you tried the Snake Arm Feint?

split grotto
#

I do feint

lament mirage
#

Cool!

split grotto
#

It's just if I'm not near them to condition there's no point of feinting on the first interaction

#

Or it's not a great idea to put that gap there

rancid marlin
#

just run up 2B 2A2A 2A2A snake arm

#

I see all the yamas they love that

#

2A mash snakearm low

#

Then when they get tired of that they'll start doing poses at the end of the screen

#

to bait you from getting close to them

#

realistically though, you can "pressure" your opponents like you can with any other rushdown character..

spring relic
#

IMO, where Yamazaki excels is in the whiff punish

split grotto
#

Yeah, on anchor 5D QM is goofy

#

And 2C counter 214A into super as well

lament mirage
#

Imagine you could QM snake arm?

#

Just

#

Just imagine

#

What a world that would be

rancid marlin
lament mirage
#

It would be so funny

split grotto
#

I think his counter should get minimal scaling (This is a joke)

#

I'll figure him how, he's my favorite character design wise and I enjoy doing his combos as well as CD kicking the door down

split grotto
#

I think I've asked this before, but what skills do I even have for people to call me not bad. I'm asking not to be negative but just to get insight on what I do well. Since all I ever see is what I do wrong.

Personally I don't consider combos a positive thing since that's like the easiest thing with any character. Not saying this is a negative way, but I think about anyone could learn a combo and get it consistent.

magic harness
# split grotto I think I've asked this before, but what skills do I even have for people to cal...

I'd say combos are your highest quality, and you saying that isn't exactly true tbh

I played LOTS of Leona, like, lots.
I've trained her earring combos for hours, and even tho I worked a lot on it, I can only get the earring combos like 5 out of 10 times I try.
And the second time we fought with your new team, you were already hitting them like 8/10
And more than hitting the earring link, you were doing the big combos off of lights, which I also find super difficult
Shermie can do 2A into Cl. C for her combos, and even tho I almost never go for it, I actually don't because I know it's hard and I might miss it.

Combos are like any other aspect of the game. Some have natural talent for it, and you're one of those people. The ones who don't can still do big and hard combos, but they need LOTS of work, months developing the execution skills you basically already have naturally

split grotto
#

Not particularly, at least not naturally. I just lab when I'm bored, stressed, or thinking. It keeps my hands busy and stuff.

But with how like, rough it is to maneuver neutral, and hold against the storm that is called "blocking" I don't get a chance to even do them except like 3 times for each character.

magic harness
#

Also
Another thing I wanted you to think about is general progression

Let's take the neutral for example, since I think the "understanding of the game" comes a lot from it.

Whose neutral is better, Xiao Hai's or some newbie dude who bought the game yesterday and never played FGs?
Obviously Xiao Hai's.

Whose neutral is better, Xiao Hai or yours?
Obviously his.

But whose neutral is better, yours or the newbie?
Obviously yours.

And I took just neutral as a simple example, but I think that applies to the whole general thing, I mean...
Who wins more, you and me or Zero?
Zero destroys you and me.
He almost never drops combos, understands the neutral better than us, has more knowledge about the game, frame data, safe jumps and all that.

But what if we could go back in time and fight Zero 10 years ago? Who'd win, you or him?
You'd probably destroy him.
Because of experience
General progression of all aspects of the game
3 years ago, I was a newbie in Kof. Combos, neutral, knowledge, nothing
I didn't have any of that

Ofc my strengths are on my setups and knowledge checks, but all the rest was also way smaller than nowadays.
How long have you been playing Kof seriously? 1 year?
If you had fought the Luna from 2 years ago, we'd probably be exactly on the same skill level

I think I overextended myself on the examples, but the point I wanted to get is:
When someone tells you you're doing good and is not a bad player, means that you're actually doing good. It's a journey, one that all players go through. And even the best players like Xiao Hai were also there at some point. You're haven't walked as far as players like him and Zero, but you're walking your way there. You may think your neutral isn't as good as theirs, and it actually isn't for now. But look back and see how far has your neutral come ever since you first bought the game?

#

I am sure if you met your own version of 2 years ago and you played Kof
He'd think you're godlike

split grotto
#

Right, I understand that. Especially considering that we've had the conversation before and I agree. But, and this is probably a bad example but this is how I see it. It's hard to tell how much you travel is everything looks really similar.

magic harness
#

I think I took "coaching" a bit too far
Don't mind me
Feeling emotional today
LMFAO

split grotto
#

As I have no expectation to win. I just want to understand what I'm doing wrong and what I'm doing well. But as I've done before. Even when I do something right it feels wrong because it wouldn't have done the job elsewhere.

magic harness
split grotto
#

Since KOF is a game about reads and guesses based on like information about the opponent. I don't really do any of that still because I don't understand the game still

#

As I'm asking for help in another channel, I was told jumps have a startup. That's common knowledge for any other fighting game. But since I feel I know nothing about KOF I just thought it doesn't

magic harness
#

I'll be honest if you
I didn't know that either up until now
But if you think about it...

Why don't you just hold up in the middle of blockstrings?
If jumps didn't have any startup, you'd probably get hit mid air and reset. But you know that's not what happens, you know that if you hold up in the middle of a frame trap, you'll get hit in the ground and probably eat a whole combo

#

You might not know exactly "jumps have startup" but you know "I'll be hit still on the ground even if I hold up in a blockstring"

split grotto
#

I don't hold up not because of that, I don't hold up because overheads are a constant threat to me. Even if a character doesn't have any.

#

Hell the set I just got out of against Zero I tried to jump on wake up and got hit but I just thought I was doing it wrong. I didn't expect it was because it has start up

magic harness
# split grotto I don't hold up not because of that, I don't hold up because overheads are a con...

And they are a threat exactly because of the jump startup
Some of the knowledge about the game aren't exactly that objective
LOTS of stuff we do simply because...
We do
They work, so we just do it

I was doing Shermie 2D, Accel, Cmd Grab to catch back rollers and block DPs even before I knew what a safe jump even was

I was in Rank 28 before I knew how to normal grab or tech throws, but I knew I wouldn't be grabbed if I meatied with Shermie Cl. D instead of Cl. C

#

I still remember the day @sinful herald just abused me with normal grabs and safe jumps out of them into other normal grabs because I had no idea what those even were and how to tech them
And then Smoke just told me I was already doing safe jump setups, just didn't know yet.

#

You know more about the game than you think you do.
For sure

magic harness
split grotto
# magic harness You know more about the game than you think you do. For sure

I don't feel it. Since I can't pinpoint any of it. But I know I'm predictable, I definitely still can't space my jumps with confidence considering I get thrown or trip guarded, and I know safe jumps but I can't do them in game due to me always thinking so much. Since I can't react to a roll or it hitting and then landing combo.

#

Calling the game stressful isn't the right word but a stupid amount of things can happen in any given moment. Especially on their wake-up

magic harness
#

If it works, GREAT
It worked
If it didn't, then just do smt different next time

They DPed that attempt and interrupted you?
Next time just hop instead of jumping. If you hit the hop button, great, combo incoming.
If they DP again, you will probably have enough time to block it

#

Didn't work?
Try running up this time

#

But don't think much about what can they do or what is the one best option
Just do smt and see if it works

split grotto
#

I try that pretty often, at worst I just auto pilot due to me thinking hard. The cross up often just has people rolling after I jump, so that's off the table. I try to throw but due to block stun or throw invul on wake up, and low attacks with Whip are super hard to get anything off of. And I'll even run up and overhead.

The opponent has more options than I do on their wake up when compared to what I can do. So I feel I need to think about it, notice what the do and just adapt. But that's a skill that's just damn hard to get

magic harness
sinful herald
# magic harness Now that I think about it... Even in SF, last time Smoke fought me, he just abus...

Abused is too strong a word for my liking. I only grabbed because that was the winning move in both situations, it’s not like grabbing is a “Smoke” thing lol. Ask daru or Tyler or anyone else I play how many times I throw them when we match up

I’m just selecting what I think will be the best move given the specific opponent I have and what I notice they like to do. In KOF you wake up super/buttons a lot so I’m throwing you to set up a safe jump because those beat reversal happy opponents

In SF I was grabbing you because that beats Marisa’s OD reversal, which again I noticed you doing often

#

Also PC throws are untechable so there’s that too

magic harness
#

Sorry, I didn't explain myself well enough

sinful herald
#

It’s cool I just got triggered by the word abuse is all

magic harness
#

LMAO
Sorry, I didn't mean it in a bad way

sinful herald
#

But there’s no tone on the internet so prob overreacted

magic harness
#

Nah, I just noticed it sounded way worse than in my head

sinful herald
#

We cool

split grotto
#

Like I'm gonna get some matches from ranked since novice MM is extra dead.

#

I'd enjoy it someone could perhaps review them with me whenever I get all of the game. Or rather, how I'm supposed to look at it.

#

Like as I lose, I feel like an idiot. Getting reversed OCVd and like just not being able to stop released jCDs or just getting hit because I miss my damn DP input and get sweep or something.

split grotto
#

And here's the crazy part, I think I only lost one set but it still felt really sloppy

grim crypt
magic harness
grim crypt
#

I was just generalizing when saying super

#

I never bothered labbing against Marisa

magic harness
#

Yeah, I was just saying she can't even Lv1 out of throw loops
She either spends two bars or take it

grim crypt
#

Don't worry gief has to struggle just like her against throw loops

magic harness
#

Really?
Never thought about it

grim crypt
#

Yup

split grotto
#

Does EX SPD not beat the throw loop @grim crypt?

grim crypt
#

If it's fully invincible then yeah it should

split grotto
#

The video is in #1021190333771558962

split grotto
#

Alright, so I've been informed. By multiple people in a different channel. That I'm not as bad as I think. As y'all have said before. But I want to ask for some opinions on this conversation relating to me fighting people at a high skill. Nor higher than me, just at high skill.

Screenshot_20230826_141745_Discord.jpg
magic harness
split grotto
#

Ah they're telling me to play against high level players

magic harness
#

So I'd personally tell you to do it when you feel like it
If you wake up tomorrow and feel like learning, go for it.
If you wake up feeling like really testing yourself, go for someone just a bit higher or same level as you, ranked might do that
If you just wanna have fun, go bully some newbies

#

LMFAO
JK

#

But play anyone if you wanna have fun or just test stuff
Just turn off your brain and do stuff
You might even learn some stuff that way

#

But that's my personal opinion and what I tend to do myself

magic harness
# split grotto Ah they're telling me to play against high level players

The point in fighting really high level people is that they will hand your ass up to you in a box and then beat you with it.
They will show you exactly how it is to fight at super high level, shit that's super hard to do, like whiff punishing on reaction
I still think that's not even possible tbh
You'll have a taste of how they do things and what you should try to copy

If possible, I'd tell you to find super high level people who play the same chars as you.

#

If you fought Tricky, you probably noticed my O. Sherm and Billy are basically ||badly made|| copies of hers

lament mirage
#

Well ofc they're badly made, Tricky is Tricky and Luna is a goddamn crackaddict on the sticks

#

Jkjk

magic harness
#

LMFAOOOOOOOO

#

I've never felt so offended by something I 100% agree with

#

I just don't like spending brain cells

lament mirage
#

You have brain cells?

#

News to me

magic harness
#

I doooooo
They're just shut down, accumulating dust somewhere

#

Lmfao

lament mirage
#

A shame

grim crypt
split grotto
#

Since the party matches and when I first joined this discord. It was really fun just playing the game

rancid marlin
split grotto
rancid marlin
mild parcel
split grotto
#

Yeah, I just have so much trouble catching the orb at the right height consistently

mild parcel
split grotto
#

I don't mind the lesser version so that's my goal for now.

mild parcel
split grotto
#

How was I supposed to know

#

I like the white

mild parcel
torpid quarry
slate mica
#

This isnt anything new folks have been saying, but seeing if I understand for myself.

More polished players will have a generally more polished neutral, more ideas of how to beat different setups, or have more experience with their characters' shenanigans, right? So if I'm playing a higher-ranked player, I'm playing to learn.

If im playing someone of similar/ lower rank, I'm also playing to learn, though I'm less on-guard about every interaction or using characters I'm less familiar with. So if you're using someone you're unfamiliar with against someone you need to WORK against, it seems like you'd be overworking the fast-thinking part of your brain. Like any weightlifting, you load up too much and you're just going to end up in pain.

So Iguess to summarize:
Playing similar/ lower level players helps you to establish a gameplan with a new character or improve your fundamental areas of certain characters you need to work out.
Playing higher level players takes your neutral to the next level when you have a basic gameplan and strategy for attack.

Do I have this accurate?

rancid marlin
slate mica
#

Hehe. I try.

split grotto
#

That'd why I so confused why they were telling me to fight high level players. I barely have a solid foundation I feel. A lot of the people watching the video in that chat said I'm probably better than I'm making myself out of be. But like I lose a lot. As is in this server. So I already thought I was fighting something along those lines

sinful herald
# split grotto That'd why I so confused why they were telling me to fight high level players. I...

Playing high level players improves defense and helps us to see smaller openings to start our offense (among many things, these are just 2)

Playing people at or near our level is the classic anime rival type battle

Playing newer or less experienced players is a chance to experiment or try something new, depending on how big the skill gap is. For example, against a brand new player I would only use light attacks and light versions of specials but no supers

sinful herald
sinful herald
#

@split grotto I’d really love it if you gave this video a watch. It’s about StarCraft (Day9 is like the O-est of G’s in that scene) but a TON of stuff he’s saying applies to fighting games and specifically KOF

split grotto
sinful herald
split grotto
# sinful herald https://m.youtube.com/watch?si=uXkjFe3sOBhq_9ke&v=EP9F-AZezCU&feature=youtu.be

That's a very different way of thinking about things. I suppose if you play it to KOF. The 2 things that stuck out to me. How close the 2 facets of the game actually are. I can't word it properly but I feel that in KOF extra hard. Especially compared to about every other fighting game I've played. Like the top half is KOF and the bottom half is fighting game.

The second one, If there's 15 things in KOF and if you can do 3. Welcome to KOF you're playing the game.

sinful herald
# split grotto That's a very different way of thinking about things. I suppose if you play it t...

KOF is extra hard but it’s also extra rewarding because of that fact, like most if not all challenging things in life. Those are excellent takeaways, especially the second one you mentioned. There’s no waiting to get good enough to enjoy the game, we just get in the damn ring 🔥

My personal favorite was, “Even with pro players you watch and things are going wrong all the time.” Like if that’s not KOF I don’t know what is 😭

#

Thanks for giving that a look, I definitely needed to hear that and figured I should share it with the homies

spring relic
#

^ I point this out all the time

#

I don’t care how good you are. Even EVO Champs get Shoryuken’d out of the air on the regular.

#

Watch high level matches? Yeah it’s on another level but end of the day they fall prey to the same shit we do.

#

Even drops happen in clutch moments by pros.

sinful herald
#

Yeah or misinputs, the classic being DP instead of cmd grab. I think everyone should watch that video btw, he’s got a great perspective imo

split grotto
#

So the video I put in #1021190333771558962 a Leona player pointed out like 7 problems but 5 of them are essentially only "game sense" problems, like not knowing my cross up distance or using 6B on the opponents wake-up

split grotto
#

Alright, someone tell me if this is wrong for me to think.

If this is like common sense why I do I feel SO stupid for never understanding it.

Screenshot_20230831_182253_Discord.jpg
magic harness
#

@rancid marlin tends to DP after I 2C AA him
So I run up and block sometimes

rancid marlin
magic harness
rancid marlin
#

Every time I wake up DP it’s intentional even if I know they will block

#

“Say I won’t” - @rancid marlin

magic harness
#

No respect

rancid marlin
#

Too bad

torpid quarry
#

Man there’s soo much little things you gotta understand in fighting games

#

I just want to fight ppl

#

Super saiyan

rancid marlin
#

On dbfz

grim crypt
sinful herald
#

JB is one of the OG’s at this point so anything he says is going to be solid

split grotto
#

I appreciate that he said it to me. I just feel stupid because I never thought about doing it.

sinful herald
#

Nah don’t feel stupid for not intuitively understanding something

#

And full disclosure I’ve never heard it put that way before either

#

I just kinda go by the last part of what he says

split grotto
#

With KOF not being a "wait for them to mess up" but like trip guarding is still a thing, anti airing, rolling etc.

I understand it's not the only way to play the game. But I just have a stupid amount of trouble taking it in I think

torpid quarry
sinful herald
#

I’d say those things are pretty important tbh especially low profile

split grotto
#

Alright, if I don't ask here I'm gonna lose it.

On this chart. I'm so far in that valley of despair, losing and constantly questioning everything. In the novice channel of another discord and just playing in this one. I've reached the point once again of. "I know nothing of how to play KOF" and man. The best way to put it is I feel I gotta delete this game or just drop it. Everyone has improved incredibly so and I still feel like I have no clue what is happening at any point of playing the game. What am I supposed to do? I actually don't want to drop the game but it's just kinda been a miserable experience

20652-01-dunning-kruger-effect-curve-for-powerpoint-16x9-1.png
torpid quarry
#

Reset your mindset

lament mirage
split grotto
# torpid quarry Reset your mindset

I'll give it a try. I'm weird about taking breaks like that since I always got that feeling my skill is gonna decay. Even though I feel that's happening now

rancid marlin
#

end of the day its a game, supposed to be fun. If it's not then what's the point

small haven
split grotto
#

I swear I've been in the valley since I started the game I feel

small haven
#

you down to play rn?

small haven
#

i dont know what kept me going though

split grotto
#

I like the game a lot, that's what's keeping me going

#

It would also be neat to enter a beginner tournament.

small haven
#

down to play like a ft5?

split grotto
#

Sure give me a few

small haven
#

lmk when to inv

meager portal
split grotto
#

Nah I'm definitely not in the mental state to even think of entering

#

I think if I entered and lost 0-2 twice I might call for a refund

warped pine
split grotto
#

Of course, an important perspective

split grotto
#

Damn my team was called "Hard to troubleshoot" since Whip is weird and Leona is weak. They asked if I played anyone else

#

How do I tell them they're all like that?

grim crypt
#

LMAO

#

You're playing some odd ball characters Tyler can't even blame them for saying that

#

Just tell them how it is

flint copper
#

Hard to troubleshoot is insane LMAO

split grotto
#

I wish I didn't like the characters I like. It's just like that

grim crypt
#

I think it's fine

#

If you like the character you should play them

flint copper
#

If you have fun playing those characters you should stick with them

grim crypt
#

don't be like me and go through most of the roster

#

Just to find the "optimal team" for myself

flint copper
#

My team is literally just characters I like playing + favoritism

split grotto
#

It's one of them things, I'm attracted to the bad characters

#

Junpei isn't that bad, Videl, Krillin, A16 ain't bad. But they're not good compared to the rest of the roster. Like just a weird coni5

flint copper
#

Oddly enough Krillin got hella buffed in dbfz iirc

split grotto
#

Shout out rocks

#

Was real excited for them stop super dash and the assist got buffed

#

Same thing Roshi I just pick weird characters by happen stance

meager portal
#

Krillin the goat

#

Roshi too

split grotto
#

Of course, but why would play them over the rest of the roster? That's about all my picks

#

Love Ryu in SF6 but he's supposedly like bottom 3 or something

flint copper
#

He's NOT bottom 3 imo

grim crypt
flint copper
#

6

meager portal
split grotto
#

Damn, I understand a lot of people really don't think he's good at SF6. Only character I assumed was worse is like Sim

meager portal
#

Perfect Cell??
Roshi solos😤
(I need to watch more dragon ball because I'm pretty damn sure that's NOT how that fight goes lmaoo)

split grotto
#

Okay, I've mad this request in the past. But I'm really asking. If anyone is good with a VC review of literally any from of KOF. I would very much like to watch it and have "Movement" explained. Since it's apparently also used for defense and I still barely understand that

sinful herald
#

What’s there to understand? We can block but also dodge attacks or feint an approach

#

In the same way as being overly defensive is predictable so is only ever attacking when moving forward

#

Just try to mix in run up hop back good button to start, see how it feels

split grotto
#

It feels like I'm lining myself up for failure, to get anti aired or trip guarded, or hit with a button check

sinful herald
#

You’re not gonna get trip guarded jumping backwards unless you don’t put a button out

split grotto
#

Oh you mean like that, I try it and then I end up putting myself in the corner

#

I'm definitely having trouble with the use of these jumps

#

As in not overusing them and then not using them at all

sinful herald
#

Well you could hop back button and then do Leona’s forward slash

#

Use the hop back to semi hide the charge

#

Or AA if they super jump at you

#

It’s just lots of little things like this

split grotto
split grotto
#

But I'll it a try still

spring relic
#

Don’t forget that neutral hopping is a thing too

#

You’d be surprised at how many players don’t just jump straight up

#

But then ask, “How TF do I deal with Clark?”

#

Speaking as someone steal healing from Argentine Backbreakers

sinful herald
split grotto
#

I mean I've done it with Mai and Yamazki since they seem like a "Fuck out of here" button

#

Just to attempt to hold my ground

small haven
#

@meager portal i think instead of trying to mix with BM at the end of a string instead do it after some lights or even 1 light.

If you got them to block a jump in, do Close A or 2A and then from there you’ll be in automatic cross up range and can go for a rehop, or Close A into her jumping grab, Close A into walk up throw, then when they want to mash do close A into Close C for an easy frametrap.

There lots of options and dont worry about doing all this at once. Just know that mix is much stronger after 1 light instead of a string.

#

Usually people do 2 lights then something but its not really a threat cause they push themselves out of range

#

Because in the middle of the set i could just react when you were gonna do the grab at the end wasnt that ambiguous

meager portal
#

Yooo, I'll have to try that out

warped pine
split grotto
#

Let me try this question

#

How do I learn from games played? And how am I supposed to apply advice?

magic harness
#

I think that's something that's different for everyone
Learning is different for each and every human being

But like, in my case, I just try to think a bit more before doing stuff
Like a new combo route, I try to fish fot the combo and do it as much as I can until my muscle memory has substituted the old route

When I have to stop jumping because my opponent has good AAs, I just think more during neutral, think of the other possibilities like run up and neutral jumping to bait, and try my best not to jump in like I was doing before

So in most cases, I just have to think more and take care not to do the wrong things

#

At the same time...
Rolling. If I am actively thinking about not to roll, I play like shit, cuz it takes up ALL of my brain power

#

Lmao

#

So my reactions become shit and I just play worse in general
Since I am constantly thinking and doing my best not to press L2

#

I do get a bit slower when thinking more, but as you keep on playing, it becomes natural again and you go back to playing normally

split grotto
#

It's like when it comes from looking at AAs or combos and such I just practice that in the lab or at least just get a feel for stuff there. But like from games played or watching the replay. I don't know how to take something from that and take it into another a game. Especially against another player

magic harness
#

I just take mental notes, like "Ok, I lost that match because I swept too much and my opponent was hopping a lot, so I ate full combos."

So next match, I do my best to control my sweeps
Still do them, but do them more conciously

#

Another thing about Replays
Watch them like you're really watching a game
Like, cheer for yourself

You'll see some habits you have, like, I ALMOST always hop after Shermie 214B on block
Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't
But it should be a concious decision instead of just flowcharting and doing it out of habit

If you're watching your replays like you'd watch a big tournament and you're cheering for yourself, you'll start to see some things you're doing too much or too little

split grotto
#

I'm definitely not cheering for myself or anything. I'm just thinking about what I was thinking to do next.

Like if I get OCVd by Dyl's Andy. I'll get hit by an elbow then I turtle, I might jump because I'm trying to avoid a fireball and the elbow. Then DP or sweep. So I try ground approach and elbow or CD etc.b

magic harness
#

Another good tech for watching replays is pause them a lot and think about every interaction

"Ok, so round start. I ran up 2B and they blocked. That is cool, I couldn't have known, I tried my best. What should I do now? I should probably 2A and Hop to continue pressure, or maybe backdash to go back to neutral."
Then you unpause and see what you did
"Fuck, instead of doing any of that, I confirmed wrong and did a special, but was unpunished. Ended my turn, but now I know he doesn't punish that"

#

And you keep on doing those mental notes

split grotto
#

If I watch that I end just thinking about what I should've been thinking about and then I end up in a loop or giving up thinking "I probably just didn't have a chance since I guessed or just was legit wrong every or most times on 3 characters"

magic harness
#

Even guessing games have things to teach
If you have to guess and they did the same thing over and over again, you should've blocked that instead
Or if they did smt different and you insisted on blocking the same move, you also should take mental notes
Since next time, they'll probably go for a third option or smt

#

Also
That's why community is important
If you post your replays here, even if you don't see anything
Me or someone else will

#

People have different ideas and answers to the same shit

#

But I get it tho
I don't post my own replays here mostly because I don't play Kof anymore
And SF... I kinda feel like I don't need to yet. If I get to a point where I feel like Idk what I'm doing wrong and just keep losing and doing the same things again and again
You can be sure I will

split grotto
#

One of the reasons I don't take replays of everything or even games that I do well or poorly in. Is I can never tell if this is a good or bad showcase of me as a player. I've had people tell me when they watch the replays I have no confirms and I should work on them

#

Even though that's about what I thought my skill somewhat was. Or like sometimes me neutral is decent but that doesn't feel accurate or it's abysmal so that doesn't feel accurate.

It's like if it's something I've been told before that a primary problem I don't mention it.

magic harness
#

How can you know if your confirms got better?
I think they are good tbh

#

You didn't drop one light confirm today

#

Whereas I didn't land a single 2A, 5C

#

Just choose one that you think was almost
Like, anchor to anchor

#

No matter if you won or lost

#

I think those usually have more to say about your skill level atm

#

But the ones you just destroy your opponent 2-0 or get destroyed are also important to see exactly what you did that was RIGHT or WRONG
Even tho, I have to say
90% of the OCVs happen not because one is much better or worse than the other
But because the winner did smt that they just couldn't adapt to

split grotto
#

Sorry I was am about to do more adult stuff. But like while I never got OCVd by Shermie. I don't know what the difference between when I beat her with Gato and I lost every other time.

#

Like your Shermie went though my first and 2nd position like butter

#

So I have no clue what I did differently there

magic harness
#

Since besides Billy, all of my chars need to be in at all times and pressure a lot

#

O. Shermie doesn't either, but I don't really like just zoning with her
I like going in and doing cool combos

#

Lmao

split grotto
#

Alright, I'm gonna ask this in sincerity. After just wall of text in Matchmaking. And I genuinely apologize.

If half of my goal is just to learn something from a set and that goal doesn't get reached and then the other one is just land like a command grab or a frame trap and that doesn't happen. Was that whole set was just a genuine failure on my part? Since I think that's why I leave feeling so dejected from like every set these past weeks

#

The session I actually just had with zero I did land a frame trap into super but I was aiming for a command grab with Shingo but messed up the inputs.

torpid quarry
#

@sinful herald what did yuri and isla get this patch? GunMay

magic harness
split grotto
#

Nah apparently Yurikov LOVES Isla in this patch

#

Also sleepy boy

sinful herald
magic harness
sinful herald
#

Lol

grim crypt
#

Yuri far C finally hitting crouchers is pretty good

#

Overall smoke's team is fine

#

Shun'ei is big winner on his team in terms of the patch

sinful herald
#

Ah you beat me to it zero lol. This is not a nerf like people think

#

Isla 2C is still really good too, hits from further than it looks

sinful herald
#

Isla 236236B/D doesn’t whiff anymore

#

Both super routes do the same damage so it’s just a matter of do you want corner carry or to side swap so they’re in the corner

#

The grounded one is prob a little better since it gives a safe jump or ambiguous cross up

split grotto
#

Alright, this is a frequent ass problem I have, especially with Leona. How does anyone hit confirm when they really doubt anyone is gonna get hit by X and Y?

magic harness
# split grotto Alright, this is a frequent ass problem I have, especially with Leona. How does ...

Hit confirms are pure training
And I guess there are naturally good people for that, but I'm not one of those
So like, 10mins a day every day for a week or so will train you enough for that

But your brain needs to be open to possibilities, for example:
What is your main light low bnb?
Shermie is
2B, 2A, 214BD, Rest of the combo
The safe on block variant would be 214B instead, but that doesn't combo if it hits

If you run up already thinking about the special you'll do, your hands will just do it, regardless if you hit or not.
Which means, I have to have both ready, the B and BD versions of the spin
And then I see if the 2B, 2A is hitting or not before choosing the special I'll need

#

But the BIGGEST problem imo is actually reacting on time for that
Sometimes my brain is too slow and won't choose in time, so I do 2B, 2A and... Nothing after it

Which is why I said you should practice that sometimes
My confirms in Kof have been better, but I think my brain got used to the MUCH easier SF6 confirms

spring relic
#

You can also set a dummy to Random Block to practice

magic harness
#

But it's something that I feel is like learning to ride a bike or swimming

If you learn it, really learn it...
You can spend years without doing it and you'll still know
You will lose breath, resistance and all
Reaction times in that case
But the hard part will still be there

magic harness
spring relic
#

But yeah, aside from reaction and general awareness it comes down to A. How many hits are you giving yourself to visually confirm the situation? or in some cases B. Is your button so fat that the hitstun generated is long enough for a confirm?

magic harness
#

Yes, those two things also help A LOT
I used 2B, 2A cuz that's the hardest for me
But like, 5C, 6B into 214 B or BD is easy af since the heavy into cmd normal is like more than 3 seconds to decide

split grotto
#

Literally it's 2 or 1 hit if I want a combo with like Leona.

magic harness
#

Not THAT much
But you got it

#

1hit...
It's possible
I practiced for far heavies into QM
But man, it's HARD af

split grotto
#

Since if it's off of a jump in, either clA 2C 6B ender. 5D, or for a run up low. 2B cl.B into combo, or 2B clA 2C ender

spring relic
#

There are some far heavies that are made for this cause yeah, you can’t special cancel off of them, but they are super cancellable

#

A good one is Kim’s far D cause it hits twice

#

Also for a far heavy QM most of the time you gotta be ready for the whiff punish

split grotto
#

The issue at least the only one with my experience with Leona is like I enjoy running her on point. So she doesn't have much meter to work with in general

#

Especially since her EX DP is the only invincible move she has since C DP doesn't do it.

spring relic
#

?

#

What does that have to do with hit confirming?

split grotto
#

Ohhh my bad my bad. I'm having another conversation

#

So the entire rest of my roster except like Whip. Don't have much an issue because of 2A

#

Yamazki, and Shingo don't have to much of a problem because 2A 1 or 2 of them is like enough time for me notice it hit or it was blocked

#

And their 2B and 2A range is "similar" to each other. But Leona's 2A is really short compared to her 2B so it's only that.

Without meter it works because the 6B is safe on block and easy to confirm from it hitting

spring relic
#

Just to be both clear and super specific

#

All hit confirming is, is giving yourself enough time to visually register whether or not your opponent is blocking or…”confirming” that they got hit.

If yes, follow through. If not, stop or cancel into a safe ender.

#

Basically what I’m getting at is hit confirming is a skill and not a combo classification

split grotto
#

Ah, let me attempt to word it better than I did. Since I think I might've worded it improperly.

Have you ever went for a rehop attempt and the first hop in hits? But you had zero expectation for it to hit and hopped again anyways

spring relic
#

I understand what you are saying, but no

split grotto
#

Okay

#

I guess I'm thinking about rehops wrong.

spring relic
#

Because regardless of hit or block, no reason not to follow through with your string to…hit confirm!

split grotto
#

Well it's not like I can re hop after a cl.D or a blocked command normals. That's announcing my turn has ended right? It's the same with running for a throw after a similar situation

spring relic
#

Depends on the frame data

#

And conditioning

split grotto
#

Like even thinking about it. clD is a slow button to recover and she doesn't have any plus moves other than the orb.

spring relic
#

Are you accounting for pushback?

#

Lots of moves are negative but it’s the pushback that makes them safe regardless

#

Unless of course you get GCR’d

#

Also, re-hopping is the universal turn stealer

#

Cause re-hopping is not gapless

split grotto
#

I mean about all of her ground special moves are safe. Just the run she does is safe or just 6B but ending my turn definitively

spring relic
#

Well hey, pretty soon I’ll be available for you to get some matches from me and I’ll get a better sense of how you play

magic harness
#

Does anyone know Ash bnbs?

#

Cuz I just noticed I don't
I have one 0.5 bar combo that basically only works from jump ins
And a QM route

grim crypt
magic harness
#

Do we even have Ash players here?
@runic rain might be the only one

grim crypt
#

I would of been an Ash player

#

But Heidern caught my eye first

magic harness
#

Ash is cooler

grim crypt
#

You find Shermie and Billy cool Luna

magic harness
#

Can he even confirm stuff?
Cuz none of his cmd normals are special cancelable

grim crypt
#

Next you'll say Shingo and Maxima are cool characters just like Daru

magic harness
grim crypt
#

MAXIMA CUTE

magic harness
#

Cmon
He is cute

grim crypt
#

🤢

#

Bro is worst looking character by far next to billy

magic harness
#

He is loyal
He never abandoned K'

#

Ok, he looks like an ape
But eh, what about it?

grim crypt
#

I didn't say that

magic harness
#

Stylish af

magic harness
grim crypt
#

Both you and Tyler said he looks like a ape LMAO

#

I just find his design uninspiring

split grotto
#

Ash is cool looking, but FUCK guile

#

He's the same person

grim crypt
#

Ash is cool

split grotto
#

The hell he is

grim crypt
#

But Heidern is more cool than him

magic harness
#

Nah

grim crypt
#

Ash is a femboy that likes messing with Elisabeth all day (I don't blame him)

#

Heidern a whole leader for Ikari

#

and has a eyepatch

split grotto
#

Listen, I got done apparently having Juicebox answer my rage questions.

I have a wild hate for charge zoners

grim crypt
#

LMAO

split grotto
#

And apparently it's way worse in KOF because of how the game is

grim crypt
#

I still don't think he's cool

#

But I do like charge characters

magic harness
split grotto
#

Nah like the amount of rage that I generate for Ash is sooo much worse than like most of the cast

grim crypt
#

I like Ash's taste of women

#

So glad they buffed Elisabeth

flint copper
split grotto
grim crypt
#

The same hatred you have for Ash I have for Athena for the most part

split grotto
#

Athena isn't Yukari, but I haven't fought a cracked one yet

#

But all Ashs tend to put me into a locker

flint copper
#

His match queue has been open as of late

#

only issue would be timezones since he's west coast and you're own nerves getting in the way

split grotto
#

I can't fight King as well, it would be a bad showing of me to play him. At least until my confidence isn't chilling is an ant hole

#

He answered the questions like this. I'll get the screenshot

#

But like for me to win a round is out think the opponent, feels like it's what gets me killed INCREDIBLY often especially against charge characters and zoners since they get rid of jump in attempts cleanly. So I'm just trying to think about what are they gonna do next etc. And I damn near stun lock myself thinking

#

If I could reset the way I see KOF it would be neat but there's what feels like 90ish things to learn to win one round.

torpid quarry
#

He just locked it in

split grotto
#

Y'all have more faith in me than I do saying the sun will come up tomorrow

magic harness
split grotto
#

I ain't even trying to be negative it's not like I don't have faith or anything like that. It's just I look at win/loss against people and characters. Not even on purpose those numbers stick out really hard in my mind without even actually like writing them down or thinking about it.

sinful herald
#

I hate zoners too btw

#

They all need to ||have a nice day||

sinful herald
split grotto
# sinful herald Juice gave you some good answers

I know, it's up to me to interpret it. I'm still stuck on the concept of every round being legitimate only out playing. Especially against zoners. How does one outplay the gamemaster? A zoner damn near dictates the pace of a game.

#

Thoughts like these are what come to mind when reading it. Because they make so much sense

sinful herald
#

Zoning in KOF loses to a good read and super jump. Juice says that too, it’s where I learned it

spring relic
#

@split grotto have you read my Dealing With Zoning guide?

#

Zoning can be very annoying yes, but EOD to deal with it all it requires is patience and being right once

split grotto
#

It's that guessing/reading part me that kills me. I'm not doing that often at all

spring relic
#

One thing you will never get around, is having to be a couple steps ahead and not think about just the next move

#

What happens after the blocked fireball?

A 2nd fireball? Stuck in the fireball —> DP loop?

#

You gotta assess based on that and not just “I wanna beat the next one.”

#

You just gotta sus out your opponent’s game pattern, which admittedly yes, can be challenging in the heat of the moment

#

It can take me a whole match to realize “I need to just GTFO the way instead of contesting.”

Meanwhile I got looped on like an idiot.

split grotto
#

It's like because everything is faster in KOF

#

So I react to what's on screen and not like what's about to happen. Since I feel like anticipating is what gets me killed. Like I think they'll throw a fireball but the DP i might think they'll DP and the just run. So what I got from it is like don't guess on what's happening next

spring relic
#

Trust that if a player finds something worth doing on you, they will do it over and over until you prove to them otherwise

#

Use that to your advantage

#

EX I’m pretty good at halting re-hop pressure, simply cause I know my opponent wants to do it cause it’s stronk

#

So I don’t get caught up in getting my ass rocked, I just wait for my opportunity to st.A

#

I believe I’ve said this before: Gotta play the situation, as opposed to the moment

#

Question: how often do you run?

split grotto
#

I jump, hop and the super versions of them as well.

spring relic
#

Are you aware that if you initiate a run you cannot block for 13F?

split grotto
#

Yeah I am

spring relic
#

Then, it’s a reasonable assessment to say a major contributor to why you’re getting bopped a lot is cause of running

#

Speaking as someone who is guilty as all hell of it

split grotto
#

Well like against zoners I feel I get hit by everything. Not because of running when it comes to projectiles. I get hit so many times trying to jump like Heid's projectiles

#

They are so large

spring relic
#

The advice doesn’t change

#

Keep your feet planted and walk their ass

#

Who cares if you block a fireball?

You get significantly more meter for blocking one than they do for throwing it.

split grotto
#

Same with Ash and King, it's limiting all my forms of movement while they have all options still

split grotto
spring relic
#

So what? Are you aiming for Perfect’s every round?

#

Also, you recover health after every round you win so…chip damage is negligible, and it helps to think of your health as a resource just like your meter.

split grotto
#

No I'm saying that if I only walk them down and they get away because game mechanics or something that they have. It repeats and I lose the round because of the health difference

spring relic
#

No stage is the Infinite Azure from Tekken

#

Eventually their ass will end up in the corner

split grotto
#

I'm saying when they get out

#

I am not that good to lock someone in the corner

spring relic
#

Why are you not prepared for the fact that you are pressuring them to jump?

split grotto
#

I try to be, but they can probably just run up to throw me, roll through me, mash, and hell just jump differently so my anti airs don't do their job

spring relic
#

True. They can do all those things, but guess what? They gotta pick one.

#

No one, not even Xiaohai, can cover their ass at all times

#

Every “play” in KOF has a counter in one form or another and that’s the beauty of it

#

Yes, your opponent will do something, but not everything

split grotto
#

I'm saying, I'm the king of doing the wrong thing. So it's not a "Will they get out?" It's a "When will they get out?“

spring relic
#

And you should be worried about what your opponent tells you, not necessarily what’s possible

#

EX: Why TF would I worry about anti-airs if my opponent shows me they can’t do it?

#

I’ve literally had opponents test me with down-blocking cause they are practically screaming at me “Haha you don’t know how to run-up throw!”

…well, you can imagine their surprise.

spring relic
split grotto
spring relic
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My day is fairly open so we should play

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It will give you a good confidence boost

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Based on what I’ve read, your confirm game / combo consistency is leagues above mine

split grotto
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I'll be available in like 10 minutes, but around like 10 EST I gotta leave.

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Whenever I back I should also be available

spring relic
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Even better, you’ll catch me during my morning rust

sinful herald
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Much easier to check jump outs, and roll outs become free damage

split grotto
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I mean I stand at the "SF 6" zone where like super jumps are at a weird angle

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And I think rolls get past me

spring relic
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Also to add to that, when you’re in the corner, neutral hop instead of forward hop for your pressure

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This will also help with catching roll attempts

sinful herald
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You should be at a spacing where if they roll forward they are still in front of you

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Think about what we talked about the other day with being pressured while cornered by Ryo fireballs

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What’s the spacing he’s enforcing?

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Ironically this part of the game right here is where your skill with A2A comes in handy the most. Use it to keep them there

split grotto
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Sorry running around the house intermittently. It's the 236C to like move into me and and then fireball from there.

sinful herald
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Right but also I mean, next time you can watch a replay actually try and measure the amount of space between the 2 characters

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Then look and see what your team can do to hold that position

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Obviously nothing is gonna work every single time, but the idea is to narrow down your choices to the best 1 or 2 that cover the most opponent actions

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Even better if what you’re doing causes them to feel the need to make a risky decision like DP, super or SS

runic rain
torpid quarry
grim crypt
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@sinful herald Besides her far B getting nerfed is Yuri essentially the same

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I know my team is basically fine with Ryo in it but I like Yuri more

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And her Far c hitting crouchers is a nice buff

sinful herald
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The far C thing is so good

grim crypt
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2A 2A 5B 3D combo

sinful herald
# grim crypt 2A 2A 5B 3D combo

That’s a really good question I haven’t checked. If not 2A > 5A works and it’s actually a little easier bc she’s more plus off 5A

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I’ve been zooming with Chris lol

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Shun riding the bench a little while I play Chris Athena and Liz

grim crypt
sinful herald
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Oh yeah and it’s a great frame kill for safe jumps

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Plus it just feels rad

grim crypt
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Chris looks fun to play ngl

split grotto
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@rancid marlin I'm literally testing it and unless I move forward. I can not do anything with my turn

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Just kind of like 5B

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Or 2C with Leona

rancid marlin
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you may not be able to "punish" the move

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but you are able to get away or start your offense potentially

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that is literally all

split grotto
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I'm saying, I have no buttons to start my offense

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That's what I've been trying to point out. I don't want to punish the move because it's safe. But I have no way to do anything with my turn

rancid marlin
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Also missing another valid point

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what will he do once he throws that out

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It's on you at that point

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If he presses after that actually if may make things a bit easier for you

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cause your fastest move will most likely smack him first depending on what he does

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even if he tries to walk or run or jump to get in a lil closer from that pushback, you will be able to react first

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so its not the end of the world, just need to be on go

rancid marlin
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you are making this way harder than it needs to be sometimes

split grotto
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What does that even mean?

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I barely know what works

rancid marlin
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If your opponent doesn't block low, hit them low.

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If they don't anti air

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jump in on them

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If they dont punish your crooked special move, keep doing it.

rancid marlin
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just do that

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until they prove to you that they can deal with it

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Literally thats how you win

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also, I'm not saying just do the same thing over and over, but don't choke because you're trying too hard to be different

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If it works, then fuck it, it works

split grotto
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Since I'm thinking about how the hell do I open up Zero, Daru, Bubbles etc. and I got nothing.

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Like I understand Leona is good. She's done work aginist people in this server but I no clue how to to open someone up with her. Because I'm supposed to read and download people. I'm not confident in that

rancid marlin
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exhuast all of your options then trip

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can't lose hope before you really see the full picture

split grotto
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I exhaust my options but can never see them doing anything with how one note they are.

rancid marlin
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also, like the way in which you can utilize your jumps will help out

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if you run up and like hop back or some shit it might throw them off. Or neutral jump, things like this.

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Obviously you can do like an empty jump too. Try that

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Also, throw people

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grab them.

split grotto
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I grab people, but it's a low reward so I got told they don't matter enough to add mental stack

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And I've don't the empty jump lows they don't open people up

rancid marlin
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omg

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Work with me please

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When you ask someone for advice in this specifically

split grotto
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I'm telling you, what's going through my mind thinking

rancid marlin
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I get it

split grotto
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I went through it in my head

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I'm like, sure I get opened up by X. But Zero, Daru, Smoke, Cherry etc. Do not. So it's not worth

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And I go through that with my options

rancid marlin
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it's possible for it to work

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its in the game

split grotto
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It doesn't though. At least when I use it.

rancid marlin
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Ok from this point on

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If you are going to ask for advice

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have more of an open mind

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no one is telling you this stuff just cause

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there is a problem and there is a solution

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Its a game

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you will not get what you want from constantly throwing your hands up and saying you cant do it

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now I do understand it may not work immediately

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ok cool I blocked your empty jump low

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what's next

spring relic
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The threat of the throw is how you open people up to begin with

split grotto
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Right I'm not saying I can't do it. Like it's a technical problem like with inputs. It's a "how do I hit them?"

split grotto
spring relic
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Knowing him, what he really means is that you’re not showing him anything else

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Meaning the throw is all you got, and you got no layers

split grotto
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Since I can jump in and go for the low. A lot of people just react to it. Like way faster than I can even understand

spring relic
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So if the throw is all you’re threatening with instead of a real mix then yeah, it’s “low reward” and worth whatever risk he is taking

split grotto
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No I mean on the other side

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Like when I'm blocking

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I'm worried about throw because every time I stop thinking about it I get hit

spring relic
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Oh, in that case “take the throw” means it’s better than eating something infinitely worse

split grotto
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It's like I'm liable to get thrown 4 times in a row because I'm blocking so much

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Then get guard broken

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But that's whatever

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I'm talking about just trying to figure out "what works"

spring relic
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Well hey, it’s been a while but based on what I am reading it sounds like you’re still having the same issue

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Which is that you don’t like being wrong

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Things work, but they don’t work 100% in the sense that you’re not always gonna make the right decision

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Oftentimes, you will be wrong and ya just gotta roll with it. Cause at that point what will kill you is hyper-focusing on that mistake instead of the next situation.

split grotto
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It's like, I guess wrong often. So I'm real inclined to think I'm doing something incredibly wrong

spring relic
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In my EXP, if it’s that fundamental then 90% of the time it’s either a spacing or a patience problem

split grotto
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That's what I'm trying to figure out.

spring relic
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  • Give yourself more space
  • Be more patient / observant
  • Don’t mash
split grotto
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I feel I'm doing everything wrong hearing the terms "I need to move more" but I don't understand it. And to figure out why I still don't know how to block

split grotto
spring relic
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  • You’re scared
  • Don’t know the character
  • You’re not spending meter on D
grim crypt
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It's all of the above for Tyler

split grotto
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And with the be patient thing. I try but I react to slow. I try to AA the jump ins with flash kick or just 2C. That works quite rarely

spring relic
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Do we have to post the chart again?

split grotto
split grotto
warped pine
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I get farther than I'm supposed to by reading/downloading my opponent when I can

spring relic
grim crypt
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I'm saving this chart

split grotto
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Hop in run in does not beat the wait and react I swear my life savings on it.

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If I was fighting me, sure. Other people nah

spring relic
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Probably because you approach that way most of the time. In which case, the “reaction” is actually preemptive so it checks out.

split grotto
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I'm convinced I just don't get it. Because from one side of the screen to the other. You either projectile "my characters do not have one" you run in or you jump in.

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I tried the run in, back dash, roll back, jump back and neutral jump but I'm not noticing anything from the opponent

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So what exactly all am I still missing here?

warped pine
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whatever you're doing with Leona is working

spring relic
sinful herald
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That’s anything in life, not fighting game specific

split grotto
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They just still block

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Or they throw something out that hits me at that range anyways. Like a fireball

spring relic
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Also probably worth noting: there is no magic piece of advice that is suddenly gonna put you on even footing with the truly seasoned vets

sinful herald
spring relic
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^ case in point

split grotto
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This isn't me being negative

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I actually mean that

sinful herald
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Would it make sense that to learn it would involve trying?

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And being ok with not getting it right first attempt

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Does that sound reasonable or nah?

split grotto
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I am trying, I feel I need more a textbook of this subject instead of just not understanding what I'm looking for other than DP

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Or a whiffed anti air

spring relic
split grotto
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I do that, I understand most people use a special move after the command normal

spring relic
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Don’t get more actionable than that

split grotto
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Because most command normals happen to be unsafe or it ends the turn otherwise

spring relic
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And now…do you see your inherent contradiction?

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Earlier, you were just complaining about getting Guard Broken because you are so afraid of throw.

But now you say you have the knowledge and awareness to execute GC Rolls against command normals that you observe.

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Both cannot be true to the degree which you describe

split grotto
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Because sometimes GC rolling doesn't work because they roll immediately after. So I'm back in the same situation

lament mirage
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@spring relic YOOOOOOOOO

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LETS FUCKING

GOOOOOOO

split grotto
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So it's not like I immediately do it everytime

lament mirage
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THE MAN FUCKING MAN HIMSELF

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MAN have I missed you

spring relic
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What a kind welcome! Thank you! I’ve certainly missed being a part of the community.

lament mirage
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YUUUHHHHH

split grotto
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It's like all I do is think about what I'm doing wrong. So like that's all I ever really see. If you ever ask what I do well. I'm just gonna say combos most of the time. Unless I drop them

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Like with Leona

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I just want to work on something but they feel so vague I have no idea where to start.

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So if anyone wants help me brain storm something for defense or just general movement

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There will be no me arguing, probably just questions

rancid marlin
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can you play now?

split grotto
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Um not right now

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Probably tomorrow

rancid marlin
split grotto
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Ah go ahead @magic harness

rancid marlin
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Luna?

split grotto
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Yeah she plays it

rancid marlin
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ok

magic harness
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MK

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SUPER fun game

rancid marlin