#KOF Coaching

1 messages · Page 16 of 1

split grotto
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Hmm, I see

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Looking back, I can play Robert but this man's damage is depressing. Even if he wins though just winning with massive kit and not combos

rancid marlin
split grotto
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Like watching this player on the KOF replay channel I mean when Ryo does get someone to the corner he does just Shoto them to death huh

split grotto
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Nah, in all honesty I'm just kinda messing around with the cast

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Wondering if there's a better point I'd be comfortable with picking up. I'm all for trying Ryo I suppose. If not having a full screen fireball doesn't get me to smother them I'm doing something wrong

rancid marlin
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I am the last person to tell you to stick to a team, but there is great benefit to learning the ins and out of your specific character. Like specializing in a certain character you can always learn something no matter what. It does not stop because you've learned their most optimal routes or crazy combos.

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Don't forget about your boys, Joe and Shingo etc

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I get it if you want to move past them though

split grotto
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I have no real intention moving past Shingo at least.

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Joe is a character I'll at least always know how to play. Right now I definitely just want to mess around with the characters I found cool but ignored

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Like I Leona a lot, I could without a doubt see her in my main line up. Like let's say I like Ryo. I could run Leona or Robert, Shingo or Ramon then like Ryo or Joe.

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I just like messing around, but Haohmaru looks very sick though

rancid marlin
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Yeah Hao is a cool character

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Leona is definitely

split grotto
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Like Robert, has cool combos and is a Shoto, but he ain't as fun for me as Ryu is. Which is hard to explain why that is.

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Even though I do pretty alright with him

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But in neutral, I like him a lot more than I do Joe

rancid marlin
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in AOF

rancid marlin
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Everything about Robert screams "all purpose"

split grotto
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Yeah that is true

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So Ryo is slow but I'm supposed to be in their face?

rancid marlin
split grotto
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Yeah watching Ryo he just kinda is always at like hop or hyper hop range

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Which is weird, I was playing him against bots and it felt real hard to be at that distance

split grotto
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2 questions, number 1, why do Leona's combos do so much stun?

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Number 2, How does one actually get to someone with Geese?

torpid quarry
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Throw out reppukken rarely

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Empty hop high low mix

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Stagger tf outta of ppl with his buttons

split grotto
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This man really does have some goofy buttons

split grotto
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So he's really just a large ass bully

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Okay so you don't bulldog yourself in with this character. I'm starting to somewhat understand I think

grim crypt
split grotto
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I see, she like stuns in 2 BnBs

grim crypt
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Like 2 to 3 combos with Kim back to back can leave you close to stun pretty consistently

split grotto
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I see, also Geese. So this is what it's like having all god buttons instead of like 3

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Don't know how comfortable I am not having a DP yet. I need someone to pressure me first I suppose

grim crypt
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Local man finds out what it's like playing a good character for once

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Don't worry about parries

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If you wanna anti air just use 2C it's the easiest anti air to use

split grotto
grim crypt
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Yeah but you didn't even stick with her

split grotto
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Nah I still play her occasionally, I just didn't vibe with the short buttons at the time

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Now that I can "kind of" stick to people I probably could play her now

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Legit, I might go back to her when I'm done trying out new characters, which is coming to a close quite soon. It's basically just Whip and Gato left

grim crypt
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I'm surprised you haven't tried him yet

split grotto
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I think he's cool as well. So I'm excited to get to him

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Haohmaru is very fun, even if he's ass

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Geese is so good he feels like a troll character with how I feel I kinda just press buttons and do stuff

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But so far out of all the characters I've been playing, I can see Leona really being in rotation. She's a lot of fun, Robert is more fun for me than Joe, and I still need to see how I feel about specifically Ryo.

split grotto
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After watching a Gato thing, he seems sick. Did he get nerfed that hard or did people move on?

grizzled heart
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His Braindead stuff got nerfed so people dropepd

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Kinda uncertain abt his status tbh

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I played him for 5 seconds in Season 1 but dropped because he wasn’t very interesting

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You used to be able to ex palm to crumple so his confirms were immensely free

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unlike Yashiro and Rock first week after patch EVERYONE dropped him

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The first TNS after season 2 I think there was just one person on stream who played him

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he’s prolly still totally usable but nobody plays him so I can’t say for sure what his current strengths are

grim crypt
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he's still one of the faster characters in the game still

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just not zooming like Iori or Heidern iirc

split grotto
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I see

grim crypt
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Yeah his main combo was 2A 2C I believe but since they slowed down the buttons speed and range it doesn't combo anymore which makes his hit confirms a little inconsistent

slate mica
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Yeah, EX palm doesn't combo from lows anymore

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That's really the big thing

sinful herald
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He also doesn’t get a safe jump off his DP anymore

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It’s not that he’s bad now, I’ve certainly gotten my ass kicked by Gato in season 2 it’s just like dunc said he’s not brain dead anymore

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He’s a mixup/setup character so really strong in setplay situations

split grotto
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I see, alright. He looks pretty sick, maybe not as straight forward but just mix and don't leave them alone is what I gathered

split grotto
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You know, I still don't understand how people open other people up

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As I'm getting opened up and can't open people

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Since I get opened up by just like jabs and hops,

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But no one else does

grim crypt
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Man this character has it rough lmao

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But you can definitely still put in the work with him

sinful herald
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But he has lots of shenanigans off the teleport move

grim crypt
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@sterile mauve we'll use this channel since I can't VC right now

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So what is something that you are struggling with as Iori

sterile mauve
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Many things, really.

grim crypt
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Just one thing that comes to mind

sterile mauve
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Like getting people to open up and finding windows to land my combos.

sterile mauve
grim crypt
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Ok we'll start with opening people up and no I didn't say that

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You're obviously still learning the game everyone is at one point

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Start blocking for me

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I'm gonna teach you al basic frame trap

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The moment you see a gap press crouch B with Iori

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You can start blocking now

sterile mauve
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Alright.

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(Just got my phone to make communication easier.)

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Am blocking now.

grim crypt
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After far A press to 2B

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Ok do the this blockstring on me

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2B Cl.A Far A sweep

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My 2B is winning because you aren't fast enough with the sweep

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You also aren't close enough for the close A to come out

sterile mauve
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Ah.

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I need to get better with my speed.

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I hope I'm getting it, though.

grim crypt
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I'll try the blockstring on you now

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Yes you are just aren't fast enough

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Block lol

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Now press 2B once you see the gap

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Block THEN press 2B

sterile mauve
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Oops.

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Ugh...

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I'm messing up.

grim crypt
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Try it on me

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Just do close B close C

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See?

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Frame trapped worked

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And on hit you get a combo

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It's the same concept as close A Close C

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Try that now

sterile mauve
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Dammit, lag.

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I'll log off at 8:30.

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Should go for a walk soon.

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I should also get a new controller.

grim crypt
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If you have to go for your walk now I don't mind

sterile mauve
grim crypt
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LMAO

sterile mauve
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It's a classic.

grim crypt
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Do you know about the button hold trick? Your inputs lead to believe you don't

sterile mauve
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I've heard of it.

sterile mauve
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I should use it, I think.

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The autocombos mess me up a lot, though.

torpid quarry
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@sterile mauve for future reference try to keep how you play to yourself or say things in a more positive manner even if it is objectively speaking, it comes out as condescending to those you faced even if it isn’t intended. Just because you react to it nonchalantly doesn’t me it doesn’t rub people the wrong way to hear that win or lose.

magic harness
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The mod has spoken
Lil Trippy's word is law

sterile mauve
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That way, people will be spared.

torpid quarry
sterile mauve
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Can I say that without cringing?

magic harness
split grotto
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I be having the mentality for fun events

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Y'all should've seen me for the damn crew battle when I was on Zero's teams

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Y'all would've thought I just ate literal confidence.

torpid quarry
sterile mauve
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Meanwhile, I was criticized for how I played Iori in '98.

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Not enough combos or crossups.

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If I can't do it...

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I often asked for help, but I barely got any.

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And the guy who criticized me was being a total ass about it...but he was right.

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Again, I need to be a man about it.

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It was like what that video I linked in #misc-fighting-games said.

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I guess I need to be Bright slapped so I can be more manly and be a better gamer.

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Can't afford to be soft, sensitive and weak.

sterile mauve
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It was Emilkof who criticized my Iori.

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I also did a "coaching session" with him, but he didn't teach me anything.

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I only got combo'd on like a training dummy.

lament mirage
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Mood

sterile mauve
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You didn't like him, either?

lament mirage
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Oh no, I mean being what amounts to combo practice for my opponents

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4 times tonight

sterile mauve
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He also told me to play Guilty Gear Strive because it's for noobs like me.

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And for sucking at '98.

lament mirage
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Rude

sterile mauve
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It is what it is.

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I need to improve faster so I can fight the big boys like him.

lament mirage
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Mood

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There's still a few obstacles before I can ascend my intermediate mediocrity

sterile mauve
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Just need to make more time for it.

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And I am mediocre myself, too.

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That means I need more combos.

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That's why I have to play Iori like a combo monster and nothing else.

lament mirage
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My problem isn't doing combos, it's doing dumb shit for no discernable reason

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Which I can't exactly fix by playing a particular character

magic harness
sterile mauve
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And to not have the execution skills of a toddler.

sterile mauve
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I need to stop being a crybaby about it.

magic harness
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I kinda wanna beat him up

sterile mauve
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Don't. You'll prove how our generation is too soft and weak when it comes to criticism.

magic harness
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Lol
I'm not afraid of it tbh
I've been criticized a lot already

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Idk how good is he tho

sterile mauve
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He beat my ass, so...yes.

magic harness
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AH
I remember
He got WASHED by Tricky once, I think

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I wasn't here yet, so I just heard stories

sinful herald
magic harness
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Then he probably really is

sinful herald
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I’ve never played him but have seen him interact in chat. Not impressed

magic harness
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AH
He is in the Ft10 server

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No?

sinful herald
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2 things also stand out

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I never see him in the FT10 server

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Or in bracket

sinful herald
magic harness
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Right

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My memory is playing tricks on me

sinful herald
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It could be that he’s just too busy to participate in either but it could also mean that he’s ducking and only likes to play newer players

lament mirage
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Who dafuq is Botan?

sinful herald
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Good question!

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I don’t know

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Just like that shrug emote

magic harness
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She's wearing the Fusion clothes

grim crypt
split grotto
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Ah you did, I was really excited to be part of a group like that playing a game I like

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So I was just filled to the brim with excitement and confidence

magic harness
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Wait
What happened?

grim crypt
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In a different server Tyler and I were doing something called a crew battle for persona 4 arena ultimax

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It was two teams of 10

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And I was the captain for one of the teams

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It was streamed and everything

magic harness
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Oh, cool af!
For one sec I thought you were having a party match tourney

sterile mauve
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Nor does he go to locals.

sinful herald
sinful herald
sterile mauve
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A guy I know told me.

split grotto
split grotto
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Well, I think for now. Since I'm so focused on learning how to rush down. I just need to step away from Geese and Ryo for until I get my fix.

So I think I'm just gonna run Haohmaru, Leona, Sylvie and see how that works out

slate mica
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That being said, advice only goes as far as the wisdom to apply it.
There are a TON of mid/high/pro-level players who give advice, but half of the advice they give lacks wisdom.

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This is feedback I recieved from a high-level (?) player. What here is actionable advice?

Screenshot_20230726_090851_Discord.jpg
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There is nothing here that I can use to make myself a better player. No drills to focus on. No change in philosophy.

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In fact, in this case it might've just been better for him to say nothing. Because there is nothing positive here and no specific evidence

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Nebulous advice like this is pointless

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Work on your anti-airs
Work on your low confirm setups
Try adding more variety in your movement options

slate mica
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"Defense bad" doesn't mean anything.

magic harness
split grotto
magic harness
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And I've seen people telling each other to call their exes

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Lmfao

split grotto
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I just get told I lack like offense and neutral but asides from you all no one ever says specifically what I'm doing wrong and I should just play more games

magic harness
split grotto
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True, I've never joined the official discord so I don't know what it's like over there

magic harness
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Me neither
Lmfao

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Oliver found me at some shady subreddit and just brought me here to his coliseum

slate mica
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It's REALLY agonizing to sift through sometimes

slate mica
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Of course, if you're still at a beginner stage (like me), Juice is likely going to have a better way to think about how to play

image.png
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Like, compare "bad offense, no defense" from earlier to this

image.png
grim crypt
split grotto
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Do offense less and bait more?

grim crypt
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Both

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Like Juice's example don't think of a hop C/CD just as a jump in

slate mica
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Yeah, like, you know how I'll often round start run in and block? That's to a) gain positional advantage in you backdash or more to b) see how willing my opponent is to use a heavy normal to make space

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Of course if they use a light, I'm in since it'll likely whiff before I get in with Dolores

split grotto
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Reading it over sounds like that you told me not to do on defense which is anticipating

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Like I gotta assume because like Iori is at fireballs distance he's gonna throw one

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If I read that right

grim crypt
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Yes I want you to react more and anticipate less on defense

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I don't need you getting clipped from by sweep frame traps because your pushing Far A to stop a hop

slate mica
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Yee, the VAST majority of wins I had against you yesterday came from blocking dp attempts

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You take those away, and you likely win most if not all of those matches

split grotto
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This is so confusing, I'll give it a try. At the moment though, I don't understand how that would help me open someone up if they just block and can react when like I have a LOT of trouble doing that still.

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Unless I'm still overthinking it or something

grim crypt
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Think about it

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If you hop cd and they just block it

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Then you have 3 options let's say

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You can walk a bit and frame trap from the blockstun

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You could run up and throw (obviously wait a bit because they might still be throw invul if you do the throw to fast)

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Or you could just do another hop cd again and crank their guard bar

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I have effectively given you three mix ups

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And you can even add more layers to it

split grotto
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You know, I thought hop CD didn't actually do that much to the guard bar. At least when I was messing around with it.

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But as I said what be stopping me is people just pressing buttons before I get into like frame trap range to begin with. Since I do just get hit with like cl.Cs or just 2As on my way in to make up the distance from the pushback

grim crypt
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You aren't fast enough then

slate mica
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Or hitting too high on the opponent

grim crypt
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9/10 you should be the one hitting them after a hop/jump CD has been block

slate mica
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Ideally you wanna j.CD the torso

grim crypt
slate mica
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You go, like, an ideal +23-26 depending on if it's a j.CD or hop.CD

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So if someone's mashing 2C or 5A, chances are they will catch a rehop

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Consider also that a run-up jab/2B is 14f to start and, depending on the normal, 18-20f total

grim crypt
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Also another thing Tyler all because person A is gonna mash on plus frames doesn't mean doesn't person C will

slate mica
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Running up on plus frames

grim crypt
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Always try the option like 2-3 times and if it doesn't work just keep it in the back of mind for later in the set/match

grim crypt
slate mica
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It helps if you have that speedy fucker, Iori 😂

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I play Sylvie, I have no excuse

grizzled heart
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Why Iori run like a Scooby doo villain

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bro runs like the Creeper

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#IoriArmy

magic harness
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#IoriArmy tho

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Y'all making me wanna play him

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Iori, Chizuru and Ash

grim crypt
magic harness
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Wait
Why does O. Chris not run as fast as Chris?

grim crypt
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idk

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why is O.Yashiro slower than normal yashiro

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Why is a Mai a literal ninja slower than most of the cast

magic harness
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O. Shermie too

magic harness
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Lmfao

grim crypt
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It makes no sense lmao

magic harness
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And I'm pretty sure Goenitz is slower than that...

grim crypt
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At least make her as fast as Andy

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It's because of the start up he has on his run

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he takes a bit first before zooming

magic harness
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Ahhhhhhh
True
I feel that a lot with Sylvie

slate mica
grim crypt
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Beeg fans

slate mica
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I guess you could say it's

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Fan

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Service

grim crypt
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If anyone else wants to look at the kof spreadsheet

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More convient than looking at dream canel at times

sinful herald
sinful herald
sinful herald
split grotto
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Okay, I think I have an idea somewhat give me a minute to make a clip with the other characters

split grotto
sinful herald
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Oh we frame trapping now?

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Good

grim crypt
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Finally

slate mica
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Thaaaaaaats an option

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So now you've got

  • run up low
  • run up throw
  • jump/hop-ins
  • crossup jump-in
  • j.CD frametrap with a fast normal
  • j.CD frametrap with a low normal

And all of these can be either ways to set up your offense or ways to hit a big combo

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And that doesn't even go into blockstrings which can be

  • jump-in with a fast normal for plus frames into a high/low mix-up
  • jump-in with a fast light into a staggered cl.C/D
  • EMPTY JUMP into a command grab/low

Etc. Etc.

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I think it's clickin'!

split grotto
# grim crypt Finally

Listen, I've always known about them. But like with leona and close buttons in general. I always wondered how the hell do I even get close enough to do like cl 5A into cl5D

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I mean I'd be lying to you if I said I didn't completely forgot about using jCD for anything other than air to airs. So I guess that at least opens that up

split grotto
grim crypt
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Her command grab isn't strike invul so you want to establish a effective frame trap first from a jump cd before going for a command grab

split grotto
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Ah okay

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I mean she can cl 5A into cl 5C right?

grim crypt
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Then again It is full invul so maybe

image.png
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something you probably gonna have to lab

slate mica
split grotto
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Sylvie is probably the best character that I like but I just stopped playing her since I couldn't formulate any offensive considering she's just a gremlin who never gets away from you

slate mica
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That's the best paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaart

split grotto
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Like I'm thinking about maybe playing her in a similar vain to Leona since at least I can play her now

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At least better than any other rush down character before

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Maybe I'll figure out what Sylvie much better than Leona

grim crypt
split grotto
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I don't know man, I always thought Leona was really efficient but Sylvie is just great at meter dumping. I see he in point but her damage is so high

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I always like running her in anchor

grim crypt
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You can run Sylvie anywhere

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Leona i think is striclty a point or mid character

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she doesn't do anything stand out to warrant the anchor slot for her

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Unless your a god and are always landing instant overhead into super all the time

slate mica
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Sylvie can do 336 off lows for half a bar, so she's dangerous anywhere, yeah.

split grotto
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Here's my thing about Leona, she'll do like 348 for half a bar and make more back than she spends. But she needs the cl B

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So like I go have to be on top of them. While I guess Sylvie can be a little farther out

sinful herald
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That’s where j.CD > run > close button comes into play

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It has to be deep enough to keep them in block stun while you get in their face

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If they’re patient and block then you are hitting the guard bar and if they DP you know you have someone who can’t sit still on defense

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Btw j.CD isn’t the A2A button it’s the block stun I’m hella plus now button. Every character has a super fast/good or both A2A button

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Shun is j.C

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Isla is j.A

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Yuri is j.B

grim crypt
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Yeah J.CDs are good A2As preemptively but usually you want a faster button like smoke mentioned

split grotto
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Hmm, I mean I'll keep working on everything to the best of my ability but man it feels so weird to struggle this hard with what feels like 101 in about every other game.

sterile mauve
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I'll be down for some more KOF coaching tomorrow.

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I need to get back in shape.

magic harness
sinful herald
slate mica
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https://youtu.be/OSPPyqDX_ic

Just going to put this visual aid here to further illustrate the j.CD. Adding annotations later, but here's the gist of it:

0:02 so here's our opponent Ralf mashing reversal 2A on block.
0:06 target combo? Nothing.
0:08 a jab keeps us closer, which can help if we wanna continue offense. Well within block range.
0:10-0:12 a regular confirm string here is going to get us killed
0:14 so instead of going right into a target combo, we're going to link the cl.5C after the cl.5A instead. Just a small pause. About half to two-thirds of a second or so. The reward here is a full combo.
0:20 Showing it again here with a slightly larger gap, about 4f slower than the last one. You've got a bit of wiggle room on the frametrap here.
0:26 in the thralls of a match, our opponent's not just going to let us run up though. So we'll try a j.CD for some plus frames. This 6A would hit a crouching opponent, but we don't have that many plus frames.
0:29 so instead, it's just a run-up standing jab. Notice I'm inputting the run input BEFORE Yashiro hits the ground. We're ANTICIPATING the block here. Even if it's not blocked, and they tech roll, we're in a position to follow-up when they stand up. But here it IS blocked, and we still get the frametrap cl.5A target combo.
0:33 I accidentally input a hop.C here. Just ignore that.
0:35 and 0:37 I mess up the execution of the confirm at 0:35 but come back at 0:37 and hit it.
This is shown again at 0:41.
At 0:45, 0:47, 0:50, and 0:51 notice that I'm hitting Ralf at around head level instead of torso level. This makes it a bit harder to get the confirm. See, it's not impossible, just a much smaller gap after the dash. And a lot less reliable.
At 0:53, 0:56, and 0:58 I'm trying to go straight into a cl.C after a j.C. Again, not impossible but it's a lot less forgiving timing-wise.

YouTube
Angsty Lou
Orochi Yashiro anti-Masher setup (target combo vs. link to heavy)

https://store.playstation.com/#!/tid=CUSA25272_00

▶ Play video
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I don't even attempt a run-up cl.5A after a j.C. The j.C's going to be +16, and the run-frame startup is 14 giving you 2 frames of advantage to hit the fast normal. Realistically, you can try a run-up grab after this, but you have a MUCH slimmer margin of error as compared to +23 on a hop.CD and +26 on a j.CD.

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And this isn't just an Orochi Yashiro thing. The target combo aspect is, but Joe has 2A into close heavy links, Iori has cl.5A into heavies, Yamazaki has a cl.5A which links into heavies. Sylvie has almost too many options off of a j.CD since her 2A, 2B, cl.5A, cl.5B and cl.5C are all 4 frame startup, so she can cl.5C, cl.5A link to cl.5C, 2B to cl.5B, and so on.

split grotto
slate mica
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They're big buttons with a lot of active frames, so they can also be used defensively to create an aerial wall.
That's not exactly and A2A though. A2A is more of an advancing tactic while most j.CDs are used defensively (typically neutral jumps).
I'll use Dolores j.CD though if I think my opponent is going to be below me (hopping) since it hits on a 45* angle.

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In most cases where you get hit by an advancing j.CD, it's likely that it's just a planned j.CD for an opponent on the ground done in reaction to the opponent leaving the ground (i.e. they pressed it early)

split grotto
#

That's why y'all see me jump in so much with a jCD so early with my jump. Since it hits me really often. Thinking about it more I just get hit in the mouth by like every jCD in the game actually

#

But I rarely ever noticed that I block it since it's not used that close against me

sinful herald
#

It’s (all j.CD) main use is the incredible amount of block stun, and therefore plus frames

#

You personally prob get hit in the air with them because you go for lots of A2A so an observant opponent will start putting out their huge attack to snuff yours

split grotto
#

Well it be like on my way in to like hop or jump in.

#

And it's definitely not just rock's but he was the first one to come to mind. Like Goenitz, Darli, Iori, Liz etc. I just get hit by a lot of them so I just assumed that's how it should be used

sinful herald
#

Neutral jump/hop CD is a good “I don’t know what to do in this instance and my opponent is at jump range” button

#

But really you want to be following up a HKD with j.CD whenever possible. Also when we’ve bought a little respect and think they will block

#

Like if I just safe jumped, blocked and punished an opponent invincible reversal it’s a good bet the very next time I do a jump in (unless it’s so obviously AA-able as to be silly to do) they will block. Do a j.CD here

split grotto
split grotto
sinful herald
#

Throws

#

Supers

grim crypt
#

It's a bit harder with yamazaki because all of his safe jumps and stuff are manually timed

split grotto
#

See it's crazy because I absolutely forgot about throws, but supers I always thought you were supposed to go for a safejump

grim crypt
#

At least after supers

#

not sure about throws

sinful herald
#

He gets the OTG after super

grim crypt
#

Ideally you want an auto timed safe jump that beats 4 frame reversals

#

But sometimes you'll only get something like 5-6 frame safe jump or it is a 4 frame safe jump and it's manually timed

sinful herald
#

Yep. Best thing to do imo is find safe jump videos for your characters, and have Kyo do reversal 623AC on wake-up

#

I only learn the ones that can be done anywhere

#

Corner only or after specific situations like certain supers are a no go for me

#

Then it’s pretty easy to work backwards and structure offense around that. How do I achieve this knockdown? What combos lead to that routing?

grim crypt
#

and Iori having a 4 frame safe jump after both supers in the corner and the otg giving a 4 frame safe jump

#

None of it being manually timed either

#

(Character is stupid LMAO)

sinful herald
#

There’s not much “safe” about manually timed safe jumps imo

#

And yeah Iori is always cracked lol

#

Or at least good

grim crypt
#

If i played in season 1 I still would of played him

sinful herald
#

He was good there too just not Kula Krohnen Yashiro levels of broken

grim crypt
#

Wish I got to play season 1 betty though

sinful herald
#

I picked Kula before the big patch that buffed her, right before Combo Breaker. People here hated playing me

sinful herald
split grotto
#

I mean I'll try them at some point for sure in the probably near future. Only reason why I say in the future and not now is because I don't want to have a " I know what to do when I knock them down but now how do I knock them down." Since I feel like I'm there right now with combos and confirms

grim crypt
sinful herald
sinful herald
#

Also she got hit pretty hard by the universal 2B nerf

grim crypt
#

Ahh ok I didn't know about that

#

I just knew her and a couple of other characters had really big hitboxes on stand cd or really fast jump cds like Mai and Rock

split grotto
#

Also, when I get off work and get home. If anyone would like to run a FT3 or FT2 give me notes on like what I should focus on or at least keep in mind and they we go at it again. I'd really like to try that later today

grim crypt
split grotto
#

I understand that me getting better isn't gonna be noticed immediately but I want a specific goal of something I'm passively doing wrong

#

So I can focus on getting it better

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Like reacting to hops, jumping less etc

split grotto
#

Alright, I'm tired so I'm probably not gonna have a solution for it. But asides from me just liking to many characters to stick to 3. I can't name any character that I really like right now other than Robert. And I hate how low his damage is but that's like my only complaint when I play him

#

Since, all the other characters have a lot of problems that I feel they run full force into and I just don't know how to play into their strengths

grim crypt
split grotto
#

Right, you pilot him really well.

#

A lot of people in this server do that really well too. I was convinced Angel is actually an unstoppable moving death machine with only zoning as a weakness but she can teleport. So to me, it just kind of didn't feel useful at all in that situation anymore. And that's how I feel about a lot of the characters I see everyone play.

split grotto
#

Let me also point out, I'm not looking for a character with no cons or weaknesses. But just a character I can play into their strengths so it offsets the weaknesses a little bit. I thought Joe was my best character but the way he kinda gets sauced on really hard just makes me not want to play him as much as I did in the past.

split grotto
#

Since as of now at least. I at least narrow down it to like 4 characters. Robert, Yamazki, Shingo, and Leona

split grotto
#

And honestly, Shingo is meter inefficient and I suppose lower than average damage. But Leona on the other hand, I have to use close buttons to do damage or just 2B 2A 6B into 180 damage. So at least that's been my complaint

split grotto
#

Also might I ask for someone to give me their perspective in this

Screenshot_20230801_122450_Discord.jpg
magic harness
split grotto
#

Ah I sent a video of me playing which is why they pointed it out

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I put it in the video channel

split grotto
#

So I guess this is my goal. To pick between Whip, Leona, Robert, Shingo and Yamazki.

#

I'm gonna make sure I like whip but she reminds me of Axl the same way Robert reminds me of Ryu

magic harness
#

I thought you were going Shingo, Joe and 1 more

split grotto
#

Nah I like Robert a lot more than I do Joe

#

And Shingo is great but I don't like his meter dependency

magic harness
#

So...
Joe, Robert and I'd say Leona or Whip
Cuz both are the most different from Joe and Robert, which I think is complementative in a team

#

But really, just choose whoever you like the most and feel the most comfortable with

#

Also depends on which position you want Robert and Joe
Yama could be an AMAZING anchor for them I think

magic harness
#

@grim crypt
Yo, serious question
Like, super serious
Besides not mixing a pound of crack with 2L of sake before picking him
Any tips when playing Iori?
Like, his gameplan is basically the same as Sylvie, right?
Should I just lab his safe jumps that I stole from you and try to get in at any costs?

#

Kinda wanna play Sacred Treasures
But I hate Kyo
Wtf do I do?
Lmao

split grotto
#

Team Samsho

magic harness
#

Haven't bought...

split grotto
# magic harness But really, just choose whoever you like the most and feel the most comfortable ...

Yeah so far, I kinda like Whip a lot on point right now but that's because I haven't learned a single combo yet. But somewhat a fan of Leona on second since she can burn meter but she only needs like half a meter or so. And the anchor comes down to either Shoto Robert who can do about anything but it just takes multiple interactions or Yamazki who can kill in like 2 but he's just a lot harder to play.

magic harness
split grotto
#

Can I make a request and it's for someone to watch the TNS last week with me which Lokof so probably the best Yamazki gameplay I'm gonna get. I just want to have someone maybe explain what's happening or something like that with his Yamazki that maybe I'm not seeing

grim crypt
magic harness
grim crypt
#

We'll see how long that lasts

#

But sure I'll help

#

I'll just make a small video of how I pressure opponents with Iori

#

It's similar to Sylvie and Rock that I will say

magic harness
#

Thank you SO MUCH!!!!!

#

I play Rock weird
Lol

grim crypt
#

That you do

split grotto
#

ALL Safe Jump, Meaty, Setups | Yamazaki | Ultimate Guide #3 | KOFXV

So I feel overwhelmed by all the things he can do and everything following that. So I just wanted anyone's opinion on it

#

Wow discord didn't send the video

snow beacon
split grotto
#

Alright I'm labbing or at least trying to think about. "How do I as Yamazki, from round start and farther get to someone without jumping more than once or twice?" And man I kind of don't have an answer at all.

slate mica
#

Can you superjump at round start?

torpid quarry
magic harness
sterile mauve
#

May I request a coaching session this evening?

slate mica
#

I'm sure some of the more advanced players will take you up on that

sterile mauve
#

Alright.

split grotto
torpid quarry
slate mica
split grotto
#

Lab what? The whole game?

slate mica
#

Nah, just the situations you get where it's difficult to get a handle on Dino's offense.

#

I had to lab against the 2A a lot to figure out what I could and couldn't do against that defense

#

I found hops don't typically work, but jumps get a better angle. But then I'd have to bait it a couple times with a run-in so the jump wasn't super obvious

#

Like, run-in, backdash, run-in, block, walk forward, full jump

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But it all started from getting the range of the full jump to beat both the startup and the final frames of the 2A and working backwards from there

split grotto
#

The dude I was fighting explained that he was putting me in a RPS situation in the corner but I just can't guess to save my life so I got grabbed like 4 times and punished for jumping 3 times

slate mica
#

Oh, in the corner vs. Dino you're kinda fucked, yeah

#

I'd just pick Shatter Strike on wakeup and hope for the best tbh

torpid quarry
#

Yeah don’t even try rolling against Dino either I did it against cherry and she fucking bodied me

slate mica
#

Yeah, against Dino it feels like the strategy is

  1. don't get put into the corner
  2. seriously, don't get put in the corner
  3. avoid the 5CD. This will put you into the corner.
  4. he's slow so he's likely going to use 2A to poke on the ground. Beat that with jump-ins
  5. but don't be obvious about your jump-ins because that 2C/4A/4214k can hurt. If you bait it out though you get a free run-up punish.
  6. don't get put into the corner
  7. only zone selectively because if he can set pace with CABRON you're in trouble
  8. learn fuzzy jump timing to avoid his oki
split grotto
#

I honestly don't understand fuzzy jumping still

#

In any context except I think FighterZ

#

I take that back I still don't get it

slate mica
#

I guess it's like... set the training dummy to hit a hcb.A and then
Slot 1: run up mash 2A
Slot 2: run up hcb.C (delayed throw)
Slot 3: safejump setup (for KoD it looks like either a full jump or a superjump after the command grab)

And the fuzzy jump would be practicing the OS timing to both block a meaty 2A AND jump/hop at KoD while he attempts a delayed command grab

#

1 sec, maybe I can record an example

split grotto
#

Oh alright I somewhat understand

slate mica
#

I feel. I record examples for my own sake sometimes as well for the sake of muscle memory

#

Hahaha

split grotto
#

I'm not trying to be incredibly negative or anything but how do you "play KOF"?

#

This message has been something on my mind since I read it

Screenshot_20230802_183108_Discord.jpg
#

And it got me overthinking hard as hell that maybe I'm still new to KOF and I should just forget what I know already and just start re learning everything. Since the game still gives me a headache just fighting anyone who is playing "KOF“

warped pine
#

There are "easy" quirks to KOF that have been around for almost 30 years. They don't make sense but once you know what they are, they are 'simple'. KOF is one big knowledge check

#

When you think the answer may be something complicated, the answer is often "punch" or "kick"

#

or block (or do anything except block) or roll, or crouch, or don't crouch, or hop. etc etc etc etc 😅

slate mica
slate mica
#

I think the fuzzy setup can work against the qcf.B as well since that's reactable on wakeup

grim crypt
#

My only dino tech is backdash os my safe jumps for his armor command grab just like clark

slate mica
#

Thanks, dawg! This also kinda comes from working against Clark oki, but some folks cycle through the vortex options so well it can be tricky. Dino has a few fewer options though since his mobility isn't that good

sinful herald
sinful herald
sinful herald
split grotto
split grotto
#

I'll keep it in mind more for now at least

#

To just move forward more I suppose

runic rain
#

Dino has that SF 5 light kick into mb combo

split grotto
#

He's got armor and larger buttons though. I'll have to get a time stamp for the vod. I mean it was essentially getting put into the corner and dying

#

Yeah at like the 3:50 mark is me just being demolished by Dino

sterile mauve
#

I'm looking into learning to fight against the top tier characters in this game.

#

Would anyone be interested in coaching me for the matchups?

#

(Especially against Krohnen.)

#

I'd like to do it this evening.

#

B. Jenet is another one that I should learn to counter.

slate mica
# split grotto https://www.twitch.tv/hen_ty1er/v/1888400664?sr=a&t=237s

Hmmm... okay, here's what I'm finding (and as always, others, please feel free to add your own thoughts):

4:00 - 4:09 -- Believe it or not, you're in control of the exchanges here While you aren't getting damage of an opening, you're gaining space and meter. What I might've done at 4:10 after blocking the 2A is backdash and try to get the Dino to overextend. The reason I'd do this is positionally, he WANTS to gain more ground; he doesn't want to have his back to that corner. So he's going to push any opening he can find. Sure enough, he uses a full jump to push the momentum. You can low profile the ensuing j.CD or you could think anti-air.

4:15 -- Good jump back; back to neutral. It looks like Dino is throwing out 5Cs to control the ground, which makes a ton of sense. Run-up block puts you neutral though sinceit's -2. Good pushback and slows down the pace of the match. Wondering if a run-up low profile might work here or an approach at a different angle through a full jump.

4:28 In the corner you were put in the following situation:
far.D xx qcf.A (-16 on block)
2A (-2 on block)
j.B (+10-13 on block, tough to tell; hits kinda high)
delayed grab

This could be a useful sequence to lab against. First thing I'd do is try to see if I can punish the qcf.A with a runup 2A. -16 gives you enough time to run forward and instantly 2B. His fastest button is his 2B which is 5f, and a forward dash is 14f. So you should get a punish for any button which is 6f or faster. This looks like cl.A, cl.B, or cl.C or 2A, 2B, or 2C. 2D could even likely low profile, but it's a less rewarding and riskier option. This is just coming from looking at the frame data, so it's likely theoretical at this stage. But yeah, 662 followed by a button seems like it can lead to something, so that's where I'd start with labbing.

split grotto
#

Oh that move, absolutely never once thought about punishing it just thought it was one of those things you hold because he can do one or 2 right?

slate mica
#

I believe so, yeah. You can cancel it early with AB
The qcf.A cancel is just one downward slash
The qcf.C cancel is one downward slash and then an upward slash

#

What's important to know is the qcf.C cancel is -9 and the qcf.A full move is -16. I can't tell which version this one is in particular, but I think both can be punishable according to the framedata. Worth labbing imo

split grotto
#

I mean at least with the A version kick sand from gama punishes it and Whip 2C punishes it if the whole A version goes through

slate mica
#

Oh shit! Okay, okay we on a good start

split grotto
#

Don't have anything for Leona so I'ma assume she doesn't have anything

slate mica
#

Can Leona interrupt the slashes with a Flash Kick?

#

Generally that's where I'd go if I'm finding I can't punish something

split grotto
#

I guess I'll try it, currently since Baldur's Gate 3 came out and had an 81.5 GB UPDATE, and my job hates giving people hours. I have nothing but time rn

slate mica
#

That is... a MASSIVE update. Yikes

split grotto
#

It's only large because the full game wasn't available for download but it's incredibly massive

#

Well at least on the full A version Leona CD does work but like if they stop it I don't have anything to punish unless they're directly on top of me

grim crypt
sterile mauve
#

Alright.

#

I know they'll be trouble.

grim crypt
#

My Jenet is pretty basic

#

But I've played Krohnen longer

sterile mauve
#

Who else should I watch out for?

magic harness
#

I'd say Kyo and Luong
They are always up there on the tier lists too

grim crypt
#

Personally I don't think you need to worry about the top tiers yet when your still learning the game

split grotto
#

I'd be inclined to agree, if you don't know what's happening you're as likely to get blown up by Billy and Darli as Iori and Kyo

sterile mauve
#

Are you sure?

#

I'd like to learn it ASAP, though.

#

That way, at least I'll be prepared.

#

And I did get blown up by Daru's Darli the other day...

#

Mostly because I never fought that character before.

split grotto
#

Yeah I top tiers are there for like in my opinion, the pros. But people who don't know about X frame trap will still get blown up by those at the bottom of the tier list

grim crypt
sterile mauve
#

So...what am I going to do?

#

I don't play as often as I should.

grim crypt
#

Just learn the game

#

don't worry about match ups for now

#

Right now your main goal should be fine a team you like and playing the game to understand things like neutral and what have you

#

Once you get more confident then you could try and learn match ups against other characters

sterile mauve
#

Is my neutral that lacking?

#

I'd like to play against more people, but...no one really answers the call.

grim crypt
#

Just remember to use the kof matchmaking role in #1021451554739462258

split grotto
#

Zero I assume you fought him more than I have you think we'resimilar skill level since I should be around all day

sterile mauve
grim crypt
#

No I only played once

sterile mauve
#

If only I could clone myself...

grim crypt
#

Daru has played against them so he probably would know

split grotto
#

Ah alright, well @sterile mauve whenever you want to play just to get more matches let me know

sterile mauve
#

Alright. I'll have to take care of my cat in-between matches, if that's okay.

#

He got his teeth extracted, and he'll need time to recover.

split grotto
#

Alright forgive me for asking, is there anyone who would be interested in watching this TNS match with me since it's about my exact same team I want to run except they have Sylvie
https://youtu.be/jn9jHr0xpCY?t=873

YouTube
Tampa Never Sleeps
TNS KOF XV Tourney #64 (feat. Rino, Yurikov, ViolentKain, Lokof, Ro...

Match Timestamps:

0:00 Coach Steve (O.Yashiro, Dolores, Krohnen) vs. Vivivex (Isla, Luong, Terry)
6:50 Lokof (Yamazaki, Luong, Geese) vs. BrokenLawnGnome (Whip, Isla, Kim)
14:33 ViolentKain (Kyo, K', Iori) vs. PerroSinLag (Whip, Leona, Sylvie)
29:05 Tamago (Kyo, Rock, Krohnen) vs. Yurikov (Meitenkun, Isla, B.Jenet)
36:33 Lokof (Yamazaki, Luong,...

▶ Play video
#

I at least notice for sure the ability to disengage very well

sinful herald
#

Ok so here’s a question: How do I flowchart more/better? Like developing “stuff to do” or sequencing

And yes I understand “flowchart bad” but like…I don’t do it at all. I am 100% playing reactive and in the moment but I see and play against all these players (especially since last weekend) and can’t help but notice how it’s a part of their game plan

#

So want to incorporate some of this into my play

magic harness
# sinful herald Ok so here’s a question: How do I flowchart more/better? Like developing “stuff ...

In all honesty, I don't think it's something you think THAT much about it
In my case, I feel like I flowchart a lot for characters I'm don't entirely understand yet, so I don't have an actual plan or many options

For example, Rock.
I tend to do Reppuken into Super Punch and then Cl. C, 6A, Reppuken, jump back or backdash and repeat until I'm out of meter
Sometimes I do Reppuken into Raging Storm in case I see them jumping
Other than that, I just run up heavy, hop CD or whatever, but those are general stuff that could work for every char
And that's the entirety of my Rock repertoire, making him one of my most flowcharty chars, since I just do the same stuff over and over again no matter who I'm facing

#

But I think you meant flowchart like have some set stuff to do, like, with Angel for example
Even before I jump, I already have it in mind that I will do Cl. D, 6B, 214C
If I confirm, I finish the big combo, and if I don't I already know I'll do either the cmd run to change sides and attempt smt that will end up on her grab, or straight up do her overhead into grab

Either one I choose, I already know that if I get the grab, I will do the hit run grab to get close and either Cl. D, 6A again to restart it all over again, or try smt else like a hop D or a jump C for the crossup
And if I don't get the grab, I'll be punished since it is super punishable

#

The point is that, even before I get the first hit of the first combo, I already know exactly what I'll try to do

sinful herald
sinful herald
#

Last night I fought a Marisa who did target combo > DRC > low and the next time they’d end with overhead. Again it was pretty clearly a flowchart because their “mix” was to just alternate between the two

#

I’m not saying I want to go full flowchart but over the last year of playing these games I’ve seen plenty of players do it so am looking to mix it in. So yeah TLDR if you (or anyone) could break down the process I’d appreciate it!

magic harness
magic harness
# sinful herald I’m not saying I want to go full flowchart but over the last year of playing the...

Welp...
Then again, I don't think a flowchart is something you really develop and think about
It's more of something you do, and if it works, keep doing, if it doesn't, you think of a solution

For example, that Marisa you fought
I talked about that EXACT flowchart
Target combo, DRC, Low or Overhead?
I did that in the beginning when I was Gold. People started holding parry after I DRCed
So I thought, what can I do to fuck parry?
I cmd grabbed
So my "mix" became target combo into Low, Overhead or Cmd grab
People started jumping after seeing the Stance Flash from Marisa before the cmd grab
So I tried jump Mp Mp
It worked
So my flowchart grew again

Idk if there is a way to actually lab and develop a flowchart, but the way I do it, the process is that
Do smt. People break it? What can you do to fuck their answer?

#

And the key is that you have to be as automatic as possible
I don't really think much or react to my opponent
I just see what they are doing
The first time we fight, I am going for the low, to test your reaction
Next time, I will just choose my option based on your answer
If you just block low, I'll overhead
If you get hit, I'll do low again
If you straight up parry, I'll cmd grab

#

And that's it
Becomes a guessing game

#

Until someone finds an option that breaks all of my current solutions, I'd say my Target combo DR flowchart is solid.

sinful herald
#

Disclaimer: I’m not a chess player but in that game there are several well established flow charts and openers. I wonder if those were developed the same way…hmm

#

I guess my thing is, sometimes I just don’t know what to do mid match so am looking for some automatic answers beyond “jump in” or “run up 2B” (stuff like the Yuri sequence above) since, as a lot of us know, there typically isn’t a lot of time to sit and think

#

This is especially true for opponents who play more defensive. Overly aggressive players (without a plan) typically find ways to lose but those who are constantly holding back can sometimes get me to do the thing I’m avoiding (overextending)

#

Let me phrase the question a little differently:

#

How did you develop your setups with Shermies and Angel?

magic harness
# sinful herald How did you develop your setups with Shermies and Angel?

Same as Marisa tbh
Trial and error as you said

I tried many different things with them. Most in actual matches rather than the lab

Just think about something you can do and how to follow it up
For example, sweep.
What can Yuri do after sweep?
Shermie can do heavy accel to side swap
But what after that?
I tried pressing a heavy, and it caught some people, so I confirmed it into combos
Some people blocked, so I decided to do cmd grab instead
And I noticed it WORKED
Even better than just comboing
So it became my main route
After doing it many times, I noticed people neutral jumping
So instead of cmd grab, I did the light DP. And it catches them if they jump
I've also seen some people backdashing or backrolling
So I tried run grab
And it catches them

#

And I did that for most situations I could think of
Sweep, Blockstrings, Meaties, raw accels...

#

You'll probably have to think about it for like the charged fireball and stuff
Cuz I have no idea on Yuri

#

But you know, there are some pretty universal ones like 2B, 2A, Hop or 2B, 2A, Run up 2B
Every char can do that, and it works a lot

magic harness
# sinful herald This is helpful although I’m kind of already doing the very basic version of thi...

ALSO
I have to comment
You mentioned a Yuri thing here
Try to copy it and adapt it to smt you can do, or you think works better
I developed my own Shermie and Angel setups and combos and stuff
But O. Shermie and Billy?
They are COMPLETELY stolen from Tricky

She just told me about them, so I watched some of her lives, tried copying. Saw that back then I couldn't do exactly what she did, because I simply wasn't that good yet
So I changed small details, like the reset
For O. Shermie
She did 5B into Orb to reset one of the big combos and force them to block, while I decided to 2C and hop
There was a gap in mine that wasn't there on hers, but I noticed that if I hit the hop or if I decide to empty jump and do a low, I can combo and get some GOOD damage
So now I test my opponent
I do my route, even tho I know they can just Ex DP. If they don't, I'll keep doing it and mix between hop C or empty hop low or normal grab
If they do...
Then I do her route, which is safer but less rewarding in general

sinful herald
#

I do understand just playing matches and seeing what works and what doesn’t, guess I just thought there would be more answers in the lab/it would be more time efficient

#

And it’s not like what I’m doing doesn’t work, it does. Just sometimes I’m mid match and draw a blank on what to do next. Would be great to have some setplay to fall back on during those times

#

I’ll try copying what I see other players do and see what I can see

#

When you do those changes you mentioned, are you just going for it in a set or labbing?

#

Oh yeah, what was the method for the setups you did develop

magic harness
magic harness
magic harness
#

PLUS
I have to say
I did most of that before joining here
So I didn't play anything besides lab, ranked and casual
And you know those aren't exactly good places to learn stuff

#

So I might've learned what I did the worst way possible

sinful herald
#

I’m just curious and trying to add to my reportoie

#

Am definitely changing my approach up this season. September 1st marks a full year of playing FG’s against real people

sterile mauve
#

What's the best way to fight Angel besides zoning her out?

lament mirage
#

Don't let her play

#

She has pretty poor defensive options, her best one being a counter super

#

Ofc in this manner you are playing with fire and your life

split grotto
#

It's like pressure her to death right?

lament mirage
#

Pretty much

#

But if you mess up Angel is right there and not a good time for you

split grotto
#

Yeah, not one the characters you really want to hold out against. As I still do and lose about every time

sterile mauve
#

Since I use King, Athena, and Iori...what are their best ways to counter her?

#

(Besides spamming projectiles, I mean.)

split grotto
#

If you have like set ups and know how to have strong block pressure with Iori. I'd think he'd be able to stay on her pretty effectively.

sterile mauve
#

That's the thing - I need to be more aggro with Iori.

#

I need to get better with him in general.

split grotto
#

Yeah I'm still learning how to aggro more in general. But you really just don't want to let Àngel run amok for free. Especially if you have meter to GC options

sterile mauve
#

I'd like to lab against her tonight.

meager portal
#

Iori short hop into lights could be good against her

slate mica
#

Athena's lights are kinda poo poo, so it's probably best to take advantage of her movement options.

  • backdash + 6B
  • delayed light divekick after a 5A xx 6B blockstring to keep her guessing
  • neutral jumps
  • setplay sequences like light psycho ball xx jump CD or jump A/ light psycho ball xx run up xx 2C / light psycho ball xx teleport xx back dash +6B xx another psycho ball/ light psycho ball xx heavy teleport xx cl.A link cl.C frametrap
  • occassional teleports on plus frame opportunities
    there are a few trickier setups you can do when you get a better handle on these, but these are good neutral setups to keep the pace of the match in your favor
#

These use the light fireball in their offense, but it's a bit different than standard PSYCHO BALL PSYCHO BALL PSYCHO BALL BIN BIN BIN PSYCHO BALL gameplay from Layer 1 Athena players

sterile mauve
#

I need to stop that myself.

slate mica
#

Eh, the psycho ball is a key component of her kit.
If it works? If it wins matches? These no shame in just throwing out psycho ball after pasycho ball

#

The issue is if someone hyperhops or super jumps the psycho ball and you miss with a psycho sword

split grotto
#

Athena's voice is like the damn flags matadors swing to get a bull to charge at them.

slate mica
#

It's it awesome?

split grotto
#

Like it just makes me do bad decisions

sterile mauve
slate mica
#

Perfect!

sterile mauve
#

I need him back in SF6....I can't play the game without him.

#

I'm already betraying him for Iori, which reflects badly on me.

split grotto
#

A completely side option by the way learning how to counter a character. You can always play them.

sterile mauve
#

I suck at using grapplers, though.

sterile mauve
#

Grapplers aren't my style, either (since they're almost always big and slow).

grim crypt
#

Angel isn't a grappler

sterile mauve
#

Yes, she is.

grim crypt
#

She has a singular command grab everything else is a hit grab

#

Do we start calling Iori a grappler because he has command grab MayThink

#

Correction she has two command grabs

split grotto
#

Yeah she's just a crackhead pressure character

sterile mauve
#

Alright.

#

Again, I don't think I can use Angel.

sterile mauve
#

I don't have what it takes to play her.

split grotto
#

I mean it was just a suggestion. As I need to learn to fight King but I refuse to play her

grim crypt
#

And like Tyler said it was a suggestion

sinful herald
# sterile mauve (Besides spamming projectiles, I mean.)

This is not a good idea against Angel. She has her teleport to go through projectiles and that cross up can come in from shockingly far away. Like most rush down characters, you want to stay in her face and keep the pressure on

grim crypt
#

Yeah ideally you win neutral and stay on her ass

sinful herald
split grotto
#

I think it's kinda crazy my whole team loses to a good rushdown player. But that's also just me in general.

sinful herald
split grotto
#

If I can't figure anything out a solution with my characters using everything I got mentally. Like what other tools do I have to work with?

grim crypt
#

It depends on the situation what your characters can do

split grotto
#

I'm saying about 90% of the time. I'm like thinking about "Do I need to drop my approach because I'm not getting in or I'm getting DPd?" I do that and all of the sudden I'm getting smothered. Now I'm in a entirely different situation where I gotta think twice as hard and then I gotta solve the neutral issue. And it's like, my brain can't handle this.

grim crypt
#

I mean sometimes that is gonna happen

#

you guess wrong

#

now you lost neutral

#

now your in the corner

#

and have to struggle out of the corner

split grotto
#

Right, I get that. But then it happens like not every interaction but multiple times on each character. Which I would think, means I'm doing something wrong, or not adapting to something.

grim crypt
#

It could be a little of both

#

If you fine yourself getting air to aired alot why not stay on the ground and anti air or if your feeling ballsy trip guard and punish the landing

split grotto
#

It's the whole, "When I do Rock I gets hits with paper but whenever I go scissors I get hit with Rock" type feeling

split grotto
#

Alright, just so I don't lose my mind. I don't want to just win winning or losing is whatever. But like I'm also not just expecting to just get good. But man, I look at my games against good people and I just think, I still don't have that KOF game sense at all. Everytime I think to jab to catch a hop it's like a full hop. I think to sweep or do a low attack and 8/10 times I just get hopped on. Etc, like I guess wrong and react slowly. I think the pressures is over I die for just trying to move or press, I think the pressure never ends I die trying to block. I'm not changing characters any more, but I really have been starting to think I either still don't know how to play my characters or I still don't understand KOF at a basic level. I swear since I've been trying to actively figure out what I'm doing wrong I just get headaches mulling over it.

raven ridge
# split grotto Alright, just so I don't lose my mind. I don't want to just *win* winning or los...

Some people (such as myself) hop when we shouldn't, as in the range is very close. 5a is good for preemtive pops like that. Typically you wanna use 5c or 5d (character dependent) because the range and frames it takes to hit are inline when someone reaches combo-able range from a hop, otherwise it's just a stray hit into a reset. I think the better approach, imo, is to play your ranges than play the reads. Reads come from knowing your ranges, and by your ranges, i mean both characters ranges, not just yours.

#

The thing about KOF is that it's anyone's game and you don't have to play the grounded neutral. You can play a very movement based neutral. If you keep losing the grounded neutral, try to incorporate movement into your buttons like neutral hops/jumps & backward hop/jumps. Extends your safety by sacrificing follow up potential but you "win" neutral by edging control in your favour

#

I'm gonna try to make a KOF comeback, i'm juggling like four games on my free time LMAO but i'd like to grip KOF again, losing my touch. We can throw down if you're up for it

#

Most folks here play a grounded-momentum based neutral. Get 1-2 hits and they push on ya. There was a player here, I forget their name, but they played a very hit n run style neutral and when you inevitably froze to try to react, that's when they would push an offense and retreat again. It was pretty effective. Point of the matter is, there is no right way of playing KOF, it's whatever works for you against said opponent. Take Luna, for example. Sis can't play neutral for jackshit but their knowledge of setups with their team is in a league of its own, and it works 9 times outta 10.

#

Alternatively, if you are expecting a hop and you find your pokes aren't cutting it, and you really want to make a point playing the ground game, just give em a shatter strike

#

Hope it helps, bruv!

#

@split grotto

magic harness
#

I tend to just skip it to the good part

split grotto
#

I'll give my thoughts when I'm done cooking.

raven ridge
grim crypt
#

Nah Mac your spitting

magic harness
#

Nope
Not at all
Lmfao

grim crypt
#

Luna doesn't wanna play neutral they wanna fight lmao

raven ridge
#

AND IT WORKS LMAO

magic harness
#

YESSSSS

magic harness
#

And I've beem playing since I woke up

#

People learned my shit...

grim crypt
#

Luna we fight at least 3 times a week

#

I have no choice but to learn your bullshit

raven ridge
grim crypt
#

LMAO

raven ridge
#

don't be actin coy!

#

When I was at my peak, it took me one day, and luna came with "ah you learned my billy, he can't do anything anymore"

#

DON'T BE ACTIN COOYYYYY @magic harness

grim crypt
#

Luna when people figure out how to punish her billy and shermie

fetchimage-2.webp
split grotto
#

Alright, let me ask. How exactly am I supposed to figure out what I'm good at to to play to that strength? I'm guilty of winning sets and still not feeling like I learned anything, and it's the exact same with losing. So I still don't know what my skill set it at all.

magic harness
magic harness
magic harness
grim crypt
magic harness
#

Oh
Right!

#

In all honesty
I just need to lock it in and go back to studying Kof

#

I am too focused on SF6

raven ridge
magic harness
#

I like my gimmicks and setups
I really do
But I feel like I need more than them to be able to beat you guys

Cuz I can steal games and win on the beginning
Hell, I even beat Daru on my first week here
But I feel like whenever someone learns my setups and habits, I can never win again

magic harness
raven ridge
magic harness
raven ridge
#

You learn by finding out what you enjoy, not because the meta tells you to do so

magic harness
#

Yup

split grotto
#

Ask anyone here, I somehow actively avoid the meta

magic harness
#

Speaking of which...
MAC
Teach me Tewy.

raven ridge
#

I mess with Jamie in SF6 HARD, but I'm still subject to the uphill battle of getting my drinks in and being projectileless

raven ridge
magic harness
grim crypt
#

No one wants to play anderson bogard

raven ridge
raven ridge
magic harness
#

I want the OG Mac Team
Terry, Geese and Rock

grim crypt
#

Terrance Anderson and Joesph are team fatal fury

raven ridge
magic harness
raven ridge
#

😂 Fine. I'll continue to represent Joeppression.

#

I'll talk Terry while @split grotto speaks (continue, bruv) @magic harness

split grotto
#

Since, I play the game. I still really can't figure out what type of gameplan I want to lean towards. As it stands I just kinda play and simple flow chart. But the second it doesn't work I start thinking. And I think really hard Sometimes I get something. Most of the times I just don't and I slow down which I feel for about anyone who can block. But I just get ran over and kinda die 3 times in a row.

#

Y'all can keep talking, I'm just thinking

slate mica
#

Maybe you could start with the characters you play/ most like to play and extrapolate gameplans from there based on their strengths

raven ridge
#

He is the coolest. 🙂
TLDR; good footsies, great button ranges but doesn't convert off much. Unless you wanna play point terry, then you're special move Terry and gonna center your game around Burn Knuckle & Crack Shoot. You get the combo and you blow them up with meter, get the knockdown with power dunk, or gain .5 meter with powercharge-rising ender. 5d is a really good button if you play the tip of the range right. He's got like, one-two +++ enders but they're very ezpz to read if you overrely on them. Like a full screen power wave leaves you +20 advantage or some shit, you dash up and get a full range burn knuckle and you're either STILL plus because they blocked, or you get a stray hit into a KD. He's got 1 cross-up in jD. This is a long TLDR. You wanna learn a good footsie neutral, play Terry, and he rewards you with big, chad booms. Nothin fancy but a force all the same. @spark atlas

#

we can trade questions n shit if you wanna know more, that's just a nutshell

raven ridge
#

I'll think of a basic bitch flow chart with your team

slate mica
#

Just don't be like me and realize nearly two years later you never learned how to play neutral

#

Everyone has buttons

split grotto
slate mica
raven ridge
raven ridge
split grotto
#

Yeah, for the most part.

raven ridge
#

K, i'll thinka somethin. Look up DC for some data and think of my own experiences against them

#

Do you two throw down together? @split grotto @slate mica y'all should

slate mica
#

Yeah. I'm basically highlight reel fodder for tyler

grim crypt
#

They played against each other a couple of times

split grotto
#

It's not like I'm trying to play like anyone else or anything. I'm just trying to figure out what my strengths as a player are.

raven ridge
#

Highest of praise and keys, I'm only as good as I am because of @torpid quarry LMAO. Like we fought everyday for like, months when we joined the server. And then I just started taking names and shooting for the big guys

split grotto
slate mica
#

Like, this is feedback I recieved back in May. I feel like I'm still making the same mistakes today

Screenshot_20230815_173348_Discord.jpg
magic harness
raven ridge
#

(I took sets off him, HAH)

slate mica
#

Fucking yolo-ass neutral skip bullshit

#

Fucking dumbass run up garbage

raven ridge
slate mica
#

"OH, wah. I suck. Why can't I take any wins 😦 "

slate mica
split grotto
#

Lou, I feel about the same way. I can't win at all. When I do it's like half the time because of Yama damage or because they don't fight many whips

magic harness
raven ridge
#

When I make my return, I'll try to come on as often as possible. We can throw down regularly @slate mica, long as you're patient with yourself and we'll figure it out

#

Like i said, i threw down every day, multiple times a day, with Trip when we first joined before I made any leeway

slate mica
split grotto
#

Absolutely not Lou. You know that's not true

raven ridge
slate mica
#

Have you forgotten that time you made a huge comeback from 1-4 and took the set 5-4?

#

I haven't

#

Have you forgotten our most recent set where you beat me 10-4?

#

I haven't

raven ridge
#

👀

split grotto
#

I'm saying, I haven't won every set we've played. I've without a doubt lost some against you.

slate mica
#

Idk. I don't even remember what I did

#

I got lucky with my yolo Sylvie bullshit, likely

raven ridge
#

something musta worked. Ft10s expand your repertoire. You get the reps, you figure out what's working and what isn't, and it's an adaption set

split grotto
#

You punish my really bad DPs, you cross me up a lot more than I even know how to, you hit me with set ups from Dolores etc. I think you play well.

slate mica
#

Man, don't even count that Shermie knowledge check bullshit

#

That's gimmicky nonsense

grim crypt
#

Most grapplers if not all of them are gimmicks Lou

split grotto
#

I absolutely will, Whip is a trick ass character.

slate mica
split grotto
#

Yamazki is a trick ass character because he'll just blow you up if he's on anchor. The only honest character I have is like Leona

slate mica
#

Because, shit, I'm trying g to learn neutral with Shermie, and everyone's all "you're playing her too honest" and I'm like "yeah, I'm trying to learn neutral while playing as her

#

And Shermie's gone from my best character to my worst, simply because everyone's leveled up and my ass is stunted neutral-wise

#

So idk

split grotto
#

Ain't nothing wrong with that if you're trying to learn that though. I really don't think my neutral with any of my characters are good. I died to Luna early and all she did was counter as Geese

raven ridge
split grotto
#

My Leona most of the time takes like 60 percent before she lands a single convertible hit. And Yama just fishes or CDs and that's like it.

raven ridge
#

Shermie is very much a gimmicky character. Have you Seen Luna's? Man.

slate mica
#

If it's not working and I'm losing consistently, then I need to change

#

Yeah, and that works for Luna. Luna's a great player

#

I'm not, lol

#

And I'm trying to build my skills

raven ridge
#

Who's your team that you're putting in reps with right now? I know dolores

#

Dolores is tough for me because i know fuckall about her and how she plays lmao

slate mica
#

[vacant spot], Sylvie, Dolores

raven ridge
#

but i'll think of something too for you

slate mica
raven ridge
#

Sylvie has a lot of plus shit so I'll run with that

magic harness
raven ridge
#

I haven't hit it in game yet though 😦 Only in lab lol

slate mica
#

That's about it

split grotto
#

Right, I'm the same way. But I'd say you'd have to play into that characters strengths. It'd would be like me playing Robert like a grappler.

magic harness
grim crypt
#

That dp longcut is a nightmare

#

Heidern has it for some his combos but I can't be bothered to do that lmao

raven ridge
#

I don't understand why

#

LOL

#

And this si coming from someone who hits Kyo corner loop more consistent than Terry so

grim crypt
#

HUH

raven ridge
#

RIDDLE ME THAT SNK

#

and I don't even play Kyo!

raven ridge
# grim crypt HUH

Like it's easier to do DP and Geyser individually than DPcut-geyser lmaaaaaaaaao

#

I have NO idea why

grim crypt
#

That makes no sense lmaoooo

raven ridge
#

Oh i was cheesed when i found this out. I learned Kyo loop first with the cut, and tried doing it with Terry right after and it doesnn't work

#

😂 no chance in hell i'm doing it wrong either cuz they're the same inputs

split grotto
#

I've been thinking about what I do well. I can do pressure, with like Yamazki and I think Whip kinda a well. But that's pretty debatable. Leona most I can do is strike throw with the most mediocrity.

#

I can damn near combo with her consistently at least. But my hot take is ain't that impossible. It's easier than both Yuri and Joe's corner combos I'd be inclined to say

slate mica
#

Leona's neutral/ lights aren't the best, which is why I think she's in the below-average tier for most players

split grotto
#

Like I don't know any setups with either of them because in my eyes. I still gotta learn how to neutral to even land the hits into set ups. It feels so damn rare that I land anything.

torpid quarry
split grotto
#

I've had a lot people just say to play the game more and don't think about it. But like I lose to Smoke, Zero, Daru and the other sharks,like I'm on training video of "What not to do in KOF" I think hard watching the replay and playing the game but I just can't figure anything out other than I just don't know what I'm doing.

raven ridge
#

Nothing wrong with playing the big boys but if you're doing it for tet sake of measuring your own capacity then you're selling yourself short

#

y'all gotta start somewhere but at the top ain't it

split grotto
#

I mean I've fought people my own level in other discords and like it's mostly even but I end up winning most of the time. But I don't know what I did right to win or what I did wrong to lose

#

Also, just to point it out. I started out fighting Zero. Since he's the one who got me to buy the game

slate mica
#

Yall know each other?

split grotto
#

Nah we just played a lot of P4AU

slate mica
#

Ah, fair fair

split grotto
#

It's weird, very weird. I can lose 0-18 in SG and I've gone like 4-30 damn near in P4AU and it never felt as rough as it does in KOF

slate mica
#

This... is my first competitive fighter

#

So I don't have a frame of reference tbh

meager portal
#

Even after the thrashing I gave your Geese

split grotto
#

Ah I've played a lot of fighting games and it's like I don't mind losing if I get better or have fun losing. But KOF I don't feel I get either

meager portal
magic harness
meager portal
#

Low bar Terry a whole different game tho

magic harness
#

True
That's what I wanna learn

meager portal
#

Low bar Terry is fun, but I like my qm too much

#

I'm starting to play Terry differently though even when he's got a ton of bar

split grotto
#

Am I supposed to set this game down? Like I'm not trying to just vent but what's the mental state I'm supposed to have to lose better? Like from 0 hours to 277 I still feel like a complete amateur

warped pine
#

I'm currently on tilt from consecutive ass beatings and I'm somehow back on it 🤣

#

Take Wins and Losses out of the equation prior to the matches

#

Make an objective not related to the result of the match

sinful herald
#

The good news is that fundamental KOF doesn’t change based on which character we play so learning how to reliably:

-run up low > hit confirm/pressure
-run up throw
-cross up
-hop/hyper hop
-AA
-BLOCK

Will take people really really far

#

This is why me and zero have been on you about character swapping because you can learn this stuff with literally any member of the roster

#

But how could you focus on that when you’re learning a new set of BNB’s every 10 days?

split grotto
#

I'm saying, I try. I ran with one team for a bit or at least the shell of Shingo and Joe. At some point I just felt I was incredibly bad at using their tools or just playing them in general. So I went a on that large excursion to figure out which characters I want try and stick with. I've settled on them, I'm probably about just as bad to be honest but I at least like them more than the last team I was on.

sinful herald
#

You didn’t push through is what I’m saying

#

Plateaus happen

#

IOW it wasn’t the character holding you back it was the lack of the bullet points up above

split grotto
#

Because if I hit a wall, I either take that break and put the game down for like a week to a month. Or I try something completely different. Since right now I'm trying to push through this wall and I feel like an idiot after every set whether I win or lose.

sinful herald
#

I don’t know about anyone else but if I stopped getting gains in the gym the solution wouldn’t be to take a break

#

It would be to analyze what I could be doing differently

#

And then I would change 1, maybe 2 things and wait to see if it worked. Not throw out everything all at once, therefore guaranteeing that I’ll have little to no idea what did or didn’t work

split grotto
#

Right, I try analyzing, but it's not constructive because for me it's a "If one part is bad throw out the whole engine because I must be doing so many other things wrong"

sinful herald
#

Do you understand what I mean by how that’s playing on hard (impossible?) mode?

#

Is that how the scientific method works?

#

“Let’s just change everything all at once, surely we’ll be able to pinpoint the exact issue”

split grotto
#

It would be different if I thought any of what I was doing was correct

#

But I think about 90% of what it takes to play KOF I just don't have or execute super poorly

sinful herald
#

Sounds like you aren’t giving yourself credit for the stuff you do get right. This is normal but needs to be overcome

It’s our ego glossing over our success (“Of course I did that right, I’m amazing”) and focusing on our failures. This was a crucial thing back in the caveman days when a single mistake meant death, not getting laid, or expulsion from the tribe. It’s less of a big deal in the modern world but lizard brain hasn’t caught on to that fact

sinful herald
split grotto
#

Well, it's probably super counter intuitive but like there isn't much get from focusing on the things that are done well. Like I lose a lot, which would mean there's a lot wrong with how I play.

sinful herald
#

Respectfully disagree. If we don’t give ourselves credit for things we do correctly how can we set goals or monitor progress?

split grotto
split grotto
sinful herald
#

How do you eat an elephant?

split grotto
#

If I had to guess, systemically take it down one bite at a time.

sinful herald
#

Exactly

#

So you say you have lots of issues, you’re in good company

#

Pick one and work it for a bit either in lab or matches (both is best imo)

#

Then put it down and work another one

#

Divorce your ego from the win screen, your wins are hitting that low profile 2B or avoiding that cross up

#

Or whatever you’re working on

spring relic
#

I just wanna point something out

split grotto
#

Those happen, but I've been under the impression that's just playing that base level of KOF. Like I mentioned it in the other discord. Since I personally don't think I have Neutral, offense or defense. Considering how most of the games I play that I lose go.

spring relic
#

That SS into Climax I pulled off?

#

That was against an Immortal player who was running all over me with Yashiro

#

But I still managed to delete him, because I kept my cool under pressure and stuck to the basics

#

On some level, no need to overcomplicate

split grotto
#

But this game is so fast. It feels like defusing a bomb at like every single interaction and neutral. I'm not saying that I've never SS into a kill or at least GC someone off of me and win a game. It's rare because of what comes after

spring relic
#

You gotta be two steps ahead in KOF

#

Think of it this way: play the situation, not the moment

#

That’s how you can anticipate and play the RPS per last night’s discussion

split grotto
#

That's why I feel this game is like an impossible game. You gotta be able to "Read the KOF" guide book for situations, Reference how the player is playing, The characters I'm playing, the meter on both sides, the health on both sides, and what character everyone is on to make a choice

spring relic
#

That’s every FG though

sinful herald
#

One bite at a time dude

spring relic
#

But the beauty of KOF is that you can’t really “hide” behind characters like in other games

#

I always say KOF glorifies your strengths and magnifies your weaknesses as an overall FG player

split grotto
#

The other FGs aren't this fast mentally though. At least the games I've played in the past.

sinful herald
split grotto
#

Like this isn't a vent it anything like that. The "basic neutral" seems like you need a college degree level of experience to get an understanding of it.

#

As, I ask for help, I feel it highlights how much I don't know of didn't even know existed.

#

At least, it feels harder because of how fast the game is. Especially just anti airing on reaction and such

spring relic
#

There is a lot no question

#

But EOD it’s all fairly intuitive

#

And it takes time to remember everything at your disposal

#

Everything ultimately comes down to “Are you going high, low, or for throw?” And being able to recognize pressure gaps.

#

And as I preach all the time, the game is more about reading VS reacting. So you gotta trust and bet on yourself more than you are probably used to.

split grotto
#

I said it before in the other discord but I've definitely been told before to not go for those reads or to reserve them for only on offense

#

Look, I'll keep trying to play more games. I just feel I don't know where to go since it's a sea of stuff I don't get. Like yeah I messed around with jCD stuff yesterday at a suggestion of someone. But now the question is how am I gonna get someone to block it

grim crypt
#

You jump they block

#

Not everyone is gonna be ready for the anti air

spring relic
#

Reading is also not the same as taking a “spray and pray” risk

split grotto
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I'ma say something that's probably not accurate. But it really doesn't feel as simple as "Oh yeah just go do block pressure"

spring relic
#

It’s good to know your button angles, especially the air ones

split grotto
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Since there's like a whole stair case of other things to get up to that point.

warped pine
#

Is there any way to get a new Bloody Roar? 😅

grim crypt
#

I mean it is just that simple to start offense Tyler

rancid marlin
grim crypt
#

If someone anti airs your hop cd try a ground approach

warped pine
grim crypt
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Ground approach doesn't work try for a jump/hop again

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If none of those works try and figure out ways to bait someone

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Maybe run then neutral jump or jump back

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Make them feel like your gonna advance but to don't at the same time

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Like their isn't gonna be a clear cut answer for what your looking for just gotta experiment and see what works and what doesn't

split grotto
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It feels so easy to exhaust all options in this game. I've tried using what options I have running in and then jumping back but I still can't use any of that information I get from it. They tried to anti air, alright what the hell am I supposed to do with that since a lot of people just have 2Cs fast enough to hit me in the way in. So I'm back at just not being able to move towards them

grim crypt
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If guess wrong Tyler it's ok at most you eat 80 damage or so from a dp/2C

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Doesn't mean you give up

spring relic
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“What am I supposed to do with that since a lot of people just have 2Cs fast enough to hit me on the way in.”

In this situation, you have “told” your opponent you’re willing to jump in. So maybe on your 2nd or 3rd approach, instead of jumping at your usual distance throw out a fireball or something to punish a whiffed 2C since that’s what you know or, anticipate, getting tagged with.

grim crypt
#

Unless it's a counter hit yamazaki 2C or someone anti airing with a super of some sort you aren't gonna die from an anti air

split grotto
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I'm concerned since like health is a resource. In most situations I'm already so low or am about one interaction from being in the corner to block into death. So I jump in, get hit and they run after me and I'm blocking. And then, what's to stop them from rolling the fireball, the CD etc. Since I'm not trying to bat away the answers but it's what concerns me.

grim crypt
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Ok but with they don't?

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What if they run so close that a wake up throw works

#

what if they don't run and stay stationary

spring relic
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Health is also something you will get back in the next round

#

So you can afford a couple stray hits

grim crypt
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Their is tons of overlap in that small situation you just said

spring relic
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But yeah, you are beating yourself with your own mental stack

grim crypt
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You just have to be willing to try

spring relic
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No player can cover all possibilities

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And to emphasize “What if they roll the fireball?”

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Are you setting up for a roll punish if you expect that?

#

Cause you can do that

#

It’s Athena 101

split grotto
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There's like 3 answers to one solution

spring relic
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But out of those 3, the opponent can only choose 1

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And so regardless of the answer picked, there is always going to be a risk/reward or opportunity cost associated

#

And it’s up to you to sus that out and exploit it

#

This goes back to betting on yourself, and being ready if you get the W in the interaction, but also accepting the L if you’re wrong

split grotto
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So like, there's a way bigger chance that they choose the right answer to my solution and it's just better odds for them than for me.

grim crypt
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And that's ok just means pick a different solution

spring relic
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Yes, and just like how they have 3 answers

grim crypt
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It's ok to be wrong

spring relic
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How you run offense can cover a lot of em

#

This is why we have safejumps

grim crypt
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I have literally been wrong 10 times in row against daru/smoke and have lost games and rounds because of it

split grotto
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Right, with often I lose. It really doesn't feel right to say I lost from round start to 3rd character just because I guessed wrong.

spring relic
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It really does not get more fundamental than that

#

It boils down to one of two things:

#
  1. Your opponent was more right than you were IE winning more interactions hence they took the match.

OR

  1. Your opponent has the execution / skill to make bank off of when they are right. As a result, they don’t have to be right as often.
#

#2 is the goal, and why KOF players do not recommend relying on fireballs for a playstyle

#

10+ fireballs = 1 solid jump-in

lament mirage
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Oh hey OMF, when you get here?

split grotto
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It's losing that many times and not picking up on like any habits doesn't sound right at all.

lament mirage
#

Mood

spring relic
lament mirage
#

Been a hot minute since I saw your name pop up on my notification feed

#

Hope you been well

spring relic
#

IRL been an ass kicker

lament mirage
#

Felt

spring relic
#

But things are good now so I’ve finally been able to get back into some KOF

#

And hot damn does it feel good to be back

lament mirage
#

Great to hear man

spring relic
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Thanks for the well wishes BTW

lament mirage
#

I should hop back on one of these days too

spring relic
#

I hope fortune has smiled upon you

lament mirage
#

I've had some smirks here and there

#

I'll should hop back on KoF soon, get a set with you when I can

spring relic
lament mirage
#

I'm prolly the slowest headed

#

Takes me so long to shift habits, personally

split grotto
#

Like I've put games in here and have had clips of me making the right read and it still feels like the wrong one.

#

I got one somewhere of me killing off of a low confirm. That I ran in with it. And it's like there was such a large chance of them jumping or just blocking. So it didn't feel like a good option

spring relic
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That is silly and self-defeating

#

Why are you not happy and confident in the fact that the option worked?

lament mirage
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My guess is, if I may, is that it didn't feel "right"

split grotto
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Because, as stupid as it sounds, it doesn't feel like the right choice. One sec I got a clip that I specifically didn't feel confident.

lament mirage
#

Yep

#

Happens

split grotto
lament mirage
#

But listen, doesn't matter how you won, a dub is a dub and you should hold yourself to that

spring relic
#

Wake-up super is never the right decision…until it is

#

Where do you think the idea of the “unga bunga” playstyle comes from?

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It’s this idea of playing dumb but it “works”

split grotto
#

This right here, I stood still and got a complete punish on a roll. But why did I stand still? I had no reason to do that, no prior context to make me think that standing still would work etc.

lament mirage
#

And it worked

#

A hell of a gamble and it worked

#

You should tell me the next numbers for the lottery