KOF Coaching

[torpid quarry]

It’s ||raw climax||

Some call it

||bust out lvl 3||

[slate mica]

Hmmm

Seems really high risk

[torpid quarry]

It works

It just depends

You gotta react though

[wet briar]

@slate mica maybe your just having a bad week that happens a lot to me if I'm playing and can't do some stuff that i normal would do.
I just stop playing go training mode or just relax for 15-30 min and start again if i still can't do i just stop playing

Getting to play more and more is not beneficial

2 day's i could not do my Leona BNB on 2 player side don't ask me why but i wasn't doing it and I'm a Leona main i should do that always consistent period

[magic harness]

First of all, Idk what a "terd nuggut" even is
But it does seem like something Geese would call someone
LMFAO

Second of all...
Honestly, in my humble opinion, I think you might be changing characters too much and trying to play a general gameplan instead of character specific stuff.
You say your main team is gimmicky and you wanna learn actual neutral and rushdown, but the way I see it, those are things that you can learn with your main team. Playing Iori and Sylvie is something good, because they are "Standard Kof" characters. They have ground fireballs, cmd grabs that lead to combos, safe on block specials, good pressure, easy safe jumps and all that kind of stuff. So I often do say they are good characters to learn one thing or another. And nowadays, I play them sometimes to revisit the basics of Kof.
But I think you are past the basics
I personally think rn, you should focus on who do you want to play.
You like Sylvie and wanna play her? Cool! Ok, go for it. You like Shermie, Dolores and Clark? All grappler team, your neutral and gameplan will be centered around the grabs and conditioning and some "gimmicks" to open people up

You really can't play Iori and expect to learn neutral and pressure that will help you with Shermie for example. To get actually better at the game, PERSONALLY, I'd tell you to dive DEEP into character specifics and be open to trial and error

I mean that, for example, Shermie has LOTS of setups, one I know you do quite well is that hop crossup j. C, that shit is GREAT
But after the same move, the cmd grab, I usually go for accel, so I can sideswitch and works as anti MOST DPs. I know that you can also whiff CD into run grab for a ground mix up if they expect the side switch. You can also pretend you're going for your usual crossup j. C but actually stay on the same side. You could get them to expect a meaty j. C and block, but actually empty jump low into big damage combos.

And those are some, not even all, of the options Shermie has in that ONE situation. Only after cmd grab, she has ALL those options and maybe more.

To get better and apply better pressure, I think you should learn and practice some of those options, not all, just ones that serve different purposes.
And notice when to cycle between them
First time you get a cmd grab, you do one and guess. If you crossup and they block or know to expect it, next time try something different

When I said be open to trial and error, that also goes for EVERYTHING
Small changes
If you see your opponent is good at AAing, stop jumping, focus on run grab, run up lows, footsies
With Shermie, one 2D into Accel leads to a mix up, with also lots of options you can do. One has to work. And when it works, you'll be in, when you'll have to make another decision between many options, like hop C, heavy combo into light Accel to frame trap. 2A, 2A, Hop again to continue pressure, even with a gap. 2A, 2A, Run grab, cuz it'll catch if they expect grab. CD into Heavy Accel, as it side switches...

If you see your usual blockstring getting blown up, try to do another blockstring.
If you see your opponent can't react to Accel Side Switches, abuse them.
If you see that your opponent's pressure consists in hopping after a certain move, usually 2A, prepare 2C or a DP, cuz they will do it again.
If they like hopping, don't sweep or use lows to poke, as they will punish you HARD for that.
Each fight is different. Each opponent is different
You have to play accordingly

Against me, for example, never poke with far heavies. I like rolling A LOT. So at a certain distance, use lights. If you press a light and I roll, you can just press another light and full light combo punish my rolls.
Amazing players like Daru, Tiago, Bubs and Tricky can even punish my rolls with heavy combos, so BIG damage.
Some people have also grabbed me or cmd grabbed me, like Rise and Serg with Dino

Welp...
What I mean to say with ALL this is that you should start focusing on character specific stuff.
Evaluating your options for each situation, and learn more so you don't always go for the same one
And mid match, try to focus on adapting to your opponent. The way you play with your point has to be VERY different than the way you play your anchor.

Imo, most OCVs happen not because one player is extremely better than the other. But because in the first round, one player found something the other couldn't adapt to and ABUSED them until all their chars are dead

That is your goal
To find something you do that your opponent will have difficulty to adapt to

[magic harness]

What I should do when I see this happening, is stop rolling
Or even bait, pretend I'm going for a roll and just don't
And see what happens

But in my case, rolling is not a decision I am taking, it is a bad habit that I do EVERY time I am not thinking about it. In the heat of a match, if my cat starts meowing, if I am paying too much attention to avoid something my opponent does, or if I'm playing a character Idk much about, I start rolling like a Dark Souls game.

Bad habits are HARD to break, but I believe it's possible, I just have to think about it until it's not a habit anymore...

AH
Disclaimer
Take ALL I just said with a grain of salt
That is how I personally view the game
I'd actually wait for someone like Smoke, Tiago or Daru to confirm some of it
LMFAO

[plush delta]

If you don’t want to get OCVed, you should do what I do and dodge Luna

[magic harness]

LOL
Athena doesn't let me OCV you

[plush delta]

[slate mica]

Okay. Cycle through options in approach, in setplay, in pressure. Adapt to the opponent.

[magic harness]

Good summary of like 1h of writing

Lmfao

[slate mica]

I mean, there's some nuance there. I'm just breaking it down for my meager brain to handle

[magic harness]

I was just joking
Summaries are amazing
I am just bad at expressing myself with few words

[grizzled heart]

If Luna’s not playing Shermie, I’m not getting OCV’d >:)

This is a good ass emoticon >:$

I feel like Wario whenever I type that one

[split grotto]

@snow beacon I have to ask what's the point of reviewing gameplay like when it was a wash like the set we played. I understand if it's close since you can point out what you did well vs what went wrong or where I fell of

[rancid marlin]

I think you should also replace the self deprecation with some better energy. Not sure if this is just your sense of humor but I’ve noticed you’ve been like this since you’ve been in this server at least. There are things in real life we have no control of so we must face the harsh truths of this. But KOF is a fighting game and there is an answer to generally everything. You should start with yourself first if you do not see the results you want in game, if they are affecting your information retention or reactions.

[slate mica]

I wanna fucking choke myself out

[split grotto]

Also another question or maybe I just want advice, I'm still having a lot of trouble accepting "how hard KOF really is" compared to like every other fighting game I feel I've played. Since if course I'd get tilted at other ones but I could understand to some degree what I did wrong but this game there's SO many things you have to be doing at all times or looking out for that some times I feel powerless

[rancid marlin]

Well you can evaluate it both ways then. If it’s close then there may have been a few things the opponent did to get the upper hand, like meter dumping on the problem child of your team, or winning important interactions to steal the win. If it’s a wash then you need to look at a myriad of things you could’ve done differently, because your opponent probably outclassed you in multiple areas

[rancid marlin]

I think as humans we have fear of what we do not recognize, this why you feel “powerless” cause you don’t know what is going on. If you drop the video we can help you identify some things that can help you improve during the match or point out some things you may not understand.

[split grotto]

I'll probably be on again, I definitely feel the set this time was a terrible showing of my talents. I'm not looking for a video of me winning but instead one where I'm locked in and actually exhaust my options in game

[snow beacon]

Wash or close, there’s always something to gain from reviewing footage. I don’t do it enough, but every time I get destroyed by the elites here, I try to review what I did wrong (like if i was too aggressive and overextended, etc), but also watch the opponent for any patterns I can pick up on for next time. Even the best players here have some. I have felt this “powerless” feelings so many times during the match, but whenever I spend the time to carefully review the footage, I can usually find some takeaways to keep in mind for the next bout.

If you know how to use frame data, that’s another thing you can implement when reviewing footage, in case you’re not sure of the frame advantages of certain moves.

I certainly don’t think it’ll be a waste of time reviewing the set.

[sinful herald]

Juicebox famously said, “In most fighting games you can get by, being good at 2 or 3 things. KOF expects you to be good at all the things”

In other words;

-can’t reliably hop or hop punish? Expect certain opponents to abuse fast sweeps and long reaching 2B attacks

-can’t reliably AA? Expect to get jumped on a lot

-can’t reliably trip guard? Expect your opponent to spam neutral jump CD after they get a life lead

Etc etc. KOF is the tough but the challenge is part of fun imo. @mild parcel has had my number for the last month plus, our sets used to be a lot closer. That’s a puzzle I need to solve, but it’s definitely solvable

[meager portal]

"Water can flow, or water can crash."
"Be water my friend."

Gotta have flexibility to be good at kof

[grizzled heart]

Bruce the goat

[meager portal]

Fr

[split grotto]

I believe it, KOF feels like an unsolvable puzzle at my current juncture at some points

[meager portal]

Happens to the best of us

[split grotto]

Like whenever I fight against Zero, Daru some times, Luna and other killers.

[meager portal]

Hell there are days I play 3 hour sets with the killers and don't take a single match.

But every loss can be learned from, there's always room to improve

[snow beacon]

I never heard that quote from Juicebox, but so true. Good little breakdown in your own words… basically a nicer “git gud, but try to have fun.”

[split grotto]

I feel I'm just not good at losing but eh, I just want to be able to "put up a fight" that's my end goal when fighting someone better than me

I understand that not getting completely OCVd everytime is at least something but it doesn't feel like a good something

[snow beacon]

No one likes losing, but you're gonna have to learn to deal with, expect, and embrace it. Mental toughness is important in this genre. It's up to you if you wanna sulk or if you wanna channel negative energy into something constructive.

Putting up a fight is anyone's goal when fighting someone better. In your fighting game journey, you will definitely surpass some if you keep at it.

Don't focus on the ultimate W or the score in an FT5. Rather, I'd set goals you want to achieve during the match, like AA most of my opponents' jumps or hit a combo you've been working on in lab.

For me, if i controlled the neutral for most of the match, but then unfortunately get destroyed by @raven ridge 's Terry meter dump, I still consider the match a pseudo win lol. No joke 😛

[split grotto]

I don't mind losing, if it was an enjoyable loss. I'm prone to sulking like for an hour or 2 after a REALLY bad run but then it flips to at least a slightly more constructive view. To figure out what went wrong.

Plus a lot of what I think my issues are is I would love to know where I stand on the skill spectrum, and it's REAL easy to just say I'm bad after dropping a combo or losing the air to air fights etc. But it's not easy to say I'm good when I do win

I'll try to get a longer set in today. My only goal literally would be to hit a SINGLE combo with Kukri

[raven ridge]

I concur LOL robberies happen but when it all comes together, ouuuu that's nice

[snow beacon]

Yup! With KOF, meter dump robberies are always gonna happen. That's just how it is.

Not even meter dump. Sometimes that life lead will make you play dumb, but then the Guile music queues and the one with last pixel makes all the right decisions.

[split grotto]

Am I supposed to put the video here or in the gameplay video chat?

[grizzled heart]

You can put it here

[split grotto]

https://youtu.be/H_Mvbk4gyco

They quality seems a tad ass, don't know why the brightness is so high

[grim crypt]

I played mad scrambly here 💀

[snow beacon]

You can put your match videos here if you need some coaching and critiques. Otherwise, I usually put them in #1021190333771558962

[split grotto]

Alright, I also wanted to ask for advice mindset wise and I know I'll get some after the video gets watched. So am I not supposed to think about the result of the set, like going 1-16 or whatever it was? As in how should I take that result since I'm trying to change my take on blow outs like that. Even if it is a sub team

[split grotto]

The quality has fixed itself

[split grotto]

Alright, sorry to flood the chat. I feel I should just give up learning a new team. I feel I eat complete shit and like my overall performance suffers as a result. Like I since I don't know the "tiers of skill" I definitely feel like I'm a DEFINITE newbie the way I get hit by the same things since I'm still just trying to even figure out how to land a single hit and to somehow confirm off of it. Like I'm not good enough to try a new team

Even though in reality I do consider it very fun to try other characters but like I feel I've just gotten VERY worse since I've tried a new team

[warped pine]

You can learn a new team just know that you won't get the same result as your main for a while

My flow for new characters is CPU Level 4 > Room matches > Ranked

They can't go straight to serious matches

[rancid marlin]

I think you should definitely focus on this fundamentals of KOF beyond everything, that way you'll be able to kinda swap around a bit and feel more comfortable in certain situations. Who else are you interested in though?

Kinda can ease your newer fighters into matches once in a while to give em some XP then slide em back out. Wouldn't hurt anything

[grizzled heart]

cpu level 4 beats my ass

[split grotto]

I don't mind the abysmal loss rate I currently have. It's like I feel I seriously degraded in overall game sense. Since like this game is overall universal in how "to win" but I just am not getting any of the basic stuff anymore it feels like

[split grotto]

The comment about Shingo I made is because I feel like I need just simple shotos I suppose. Since Joe and like Sylvie seem to be my best characters but that's because they just kind of win sometimes. If that makes any sense

Like I actually really do like the team I'm running with Shingo Kukri Sylvie but I feel like I'm knee deep in a skill gap for Kukri since a lot of buttons and confirms overlap with his specials. So I just feel like I'm flailing around with him

[rancid marlin]

I think Shingo will do you more good than harm in teaching you a lot about the basics of KOF and how to deal with a lot of shit without being like 'carried'

If you want to be carried but still have a good all rounder play Iori then

[split grotto]

It's like, I don't want to just win if that makes any sense. But I do want to learn. But what I feel I've been learning is like you either need to play perfect to play character without projectiles or suffer because you only can take chip, roll and get punished, or jump and get punished.

And I understand that having projectiles don't alleviate that problem either, since I still eat shit with Joe and Sylvie. But I feel it's either I just kind of win neutral and go from there or lose at round start. And I can't say exactly how I win neutral

[rancid marlin]

that's the thing about dealing with projectiles in KOF there is more than one way to get around them

I think you're being too hard on yourself tbh

[split grotto]

And I've heard that since I started 105 hours of play time ago. And I still don't know the ways

[split grotto]

Probably

[rancid marlin]

I've literally watched some strong matches out of you

dealing with zoners with Shingo at that

[split grotto]

Yeah, but I don't know what I did, like I can't explain why jumping and doing D Shingo kick worked

I just did it

And that wouldn't be an issue but I feel like going with my instincts gets me a WHOLE lot of losses in general

[rancid marlin]

that's kinda what its for tho

Relatively safe and can shift your position to get around those projectiles or whatever

[rancid marlin]

you got this

[meager portal]

And also, I would beat down on yourself too hard about your secondary team. It genuinely gave me a run for my money

Especially shingo

[split grotto]

At some point, I think zero has our second set and like I lost 1-10. In that set I felt like I being trolled no offense to zero but it's like because I went with my instincts and like it was just ALL predictable or just beaten by stuff like safe jump, sprint up 2B etc.

[split grotto]

Gracias

[sinful herald]

Trying an entirely new team out sounds tough, I’ve never personally done that. Always bring in the new member with 2 veteran starters

[split grotto]

I think the only rough part is Kukri, Sylvie is like the second easiest character I've played execution wise

I might have to drop Kukri because my hand just can't do any movement into his combos in a game. Which for right now, would be my least favorite option

[rancid marlin]

you on controller or stick? what kinda movements do you mean

[split grotto]

Contoller, a fight pad which I bought for this game specifically since PS5 pad sucks with KOF.

[rancid marlin]

yeah I been torturing myself with this whack ass DS5 since I've upgraded..

[split grotto]

The movements are like general, 66 2B/2A 2A/2B 6A. Or just like blocking and trying to confirm after blocking from lights

[torpid quarry]

Battle beavers?

[split grotto]

Since my fingers are moving like crazy I always get like 2B 2B 5A, or like 2B 236A or 22X or even 236236A

But it's only this character

No other character has given me this issue

So far

[rancid marlin]

Slyvie kinda has the same thing for her light confirm into 6B..

will take some time and practice

[split grotto]

She does, but with Sylvie, the biggest issue I get is nothing or 236B but since I'm always trying to block I get feel I get a lot more issues with Kukri.

Like standing to move then crouching to block like twice, then it's my turn but I teleport instead

Something like that

[rancid marlin]

u wot

[rancid marlin]

you'll get it after a while. Maybe you should keep Kukreep then so you'd get used to it

then you can learn all his weird teleport mixup stuff he does to finesse with

[split grotto]

I feel I a barely can like get his BnB off in some of these games I've had playing him. Since he either blows up, or get chipped to death.

I'll keep at it because I'm too stubborn to quit on a character I like unless they're Meitenkun

[rancid marlin]

well he doesn't have the best def if I'm not mistaken, have to stay on your toes and disable your opponent where you can

[split grotto]

That's another thing relating back to the instinct thing. I feel I don't know when to hit buttons and what to do after I hit said button if it works.

[split grotto]

The bad defense doesn't bother me too much

[rancid marlin]

depends on what the person you're playing against is doing tbh

[split grotto]

Right, I get that, but I feel like whatever the option I pick is frequently the wrong one. So like I'll jab the hop, but then I just get hit and I'm back to square one. So then I just block after I hit them and I just like lose the interaction

[rancid marlin]

Man players are deliberate, you've played other fgs. There are multiple outcomes in these kind of scenarios. Got to be observant, like just cause I caught them with an anti air doesn't mean its over, either they will keep going for more attacks, or maybe they will sit still.. also depends on what character I'm up against, do I gotta watch out for grab, DP, stuff like this. If you're uncomfortable, move your character somewhere you will be for the time being if you can. Be ready for something to pop off. The more comfortable you get with your team you'll know how to start an offense with more confidence and how to identify situations were you can counterattack and allat

[warped pine]

I would fight the CPU on random, you'll at least get some exposure to a lot of possible situations

[sinful herald]

It’s not just execution tho, different characters have different neutral buttons, special moves, reversals, jump arcs etc. Not to mention game plans

None of this is to say, “don’t play a whole new team” but definitely relax your expectations if you choose this route

[sinful herald]

Movement and hitting buttons is way way safer in KOF than other games

[snow beacon]

Agreed. Execution is one thing, but decision making using all the different neutral buttons, special moves, etc, are another thing. Go through all your move list, especially normals, to determine their uses and ranges for you. If you haven't already, take time in the lab to figure these out.

I feel I don't know when to hit buttons and what to do after I hit said button if it works.

• If you have the time and desire, learn to utilize frame data. I'm not saying to memorize numbers, but use them to get a sense if a move you blocked can be punished, ends your opponent's turn granting you one, or maintains your opponent's turn. Also use them to get a sense of the reverse: if you hit X button, what is possible after it has been blocked or if you landed it. This type of training takes time, but is fruitful in the end if you devote the time.

@split grotto

• Otherwise, you'll just have to continue with trial and error in match, as long as you take (mental) notes.

Getting sufficient at fighting games takes time and work. Learn to enjoy the uphill climb. Keep playing, and you'll always improve bit by bit, despite all the L's you will collect.

[raven ridge]

A good, underrated failsafe that I try to use often instead of blocking/counter-poking, is simply backing up. Roll back, get some hyper/regular hops back and cover your space with a jCD or jB. Movement is key in KOF and if you find yourself losing a string of interactions, giving yourself some space and breathing room can help you recollect and reset neutral

[sinful herald]

I’m slowly…s l o w l y starting to understand how to utilize the lab environment for neutral and also situational stuff. The other day I did I punish with Isla that I’d been practicing (it’s pretty much necessary for the more safe-ish moves), and it just…came out on its own lol. But it was something that would have taken me ages to get dialed just playing matches

The axiom “Matches are where we encounter situations and the lab is where we find solutions” is making more sense lately

[raven ridge]

Throw a fireball or two, see if they jump it. You can bet they'll hop or jump again so you can prep a good button (5c, 5d, 2c) to AA that. Or a special that covers good space (example, terry's crack shoot)

[snow beacon]

And this is where reviewing matches is important... so you can take those situations you recorded, recreate them in lab, then find a solution.

[snow beacon]

Good shoto advice here

[split grotto]

After just like thinking about it, I feel my decisions aren't good because the game is so fast. Like when you've watched me play you've said that I need to just throw out a jab. So this game is faster than like my fighting game cycle/check list.

[snow beacon]

A BIG part of neutral is space control and spacing itself. If you feel overwhelmed or need to slow things down, as Mac said, create a little breathing room. Movement is key in FGs, but especially in KOF.

[split grotto]

Since I'm prone to blocking to figure out what the opponent does but I take like a SUPER long time to figure out what I'm supposed to do against "X" in this situation

[raven ridge]

by that definition, that's just KOF inexperience. Which is totally understandable and can be "fixed" just by playing and getting your reps in

[snow beacon]

If you don't lab it, it just might take that much time. I'm a slow learner myself, but if I get frustrated with a certain move or tactic, I try to find the time to lab it.

[raven ridge]

refer to schmovement 🙂 KOF is big on that. A trend I see in the newer players that keeps them "plateau'd" is that they don't utilize their movement options enough. Like once they're in, you guys are in. Don't be afraid to back up n breath a bit because KOF is definitely the type of game that once you lose an interaction or two, that next hop in combo can really snowball and you may lose a character.

[split grotto]

So this is a clip that I got from said set with zero, that I felt like a fool in

I thought I made space well here, but I got perfected and just didn't land a hit

[rancid marlin]

Iori smh

[split grotto]

This can be summed up as a "bad round" but I played this mentally the same way I play all the other rounds as Shingo

[rancid marlin]

yeah he caught you with that cl. A into cl.C frametrap you tried you mash thru a few blockstrings

bro was big denying

the DP clipped your jump D..

[rancid marlin]

how many matches did yall play b4 this one?

[grizzled heart]

Iori army

[split grotto]

A solid number

Like 5

These were hard reads

[rancid marlin]

damn fr

you must've been jumping a lot

he was not going for it smh

[split grotto]

So this happened for a specific reason. I do my like 2B 2A 2A 236A

I back dash

All of the sudden I need to get back over to him to like kill him

He took away my air options so like later in the set I just run, and still get hit with the DP

So those are like the only 2 options I have for getting over to the opponent from something like that

[grim crypt]

I'm uploading the first round of matches

the second round of matches will be tomorrow

I don't a need 40+ min video lmao

[split grotto]

I understand that for sure

[grim crypt]

That's crazy so am I carried 💀

[meager portal]

It evens out though cuz you carry heidern

[split grotto]

Alright so I guess I have to ask. So is the team Shingo, Kukri, Sylvie "KOF"

Like am I getting hard carried by any of my characters? That has me skipping the RPS that is KOF

[grim crypt]

No I don't think so

Kukri has gimmicks but you don't know them so it doesn't matter

[grim crypt]

Just like people have been telling Lou not matter how much your team is "KOF" bad habits and mistakes will always happen

[runic rain]

It's very hard to get carried by characters in KOF too a certain degree, some characters require less thought but at a certain level you'll get exposed. Ex: Krohnen and Yash have very solid neutral that a toddler could excel at but that neutral and those solid buttons will only take you so far in the game

Being carried isn't all that negative, it can help you understand what you're lacking and need improving on if you have someone to call out and the proper mindset, characters that lack such things like you can't link on lights or you need more execution and can't just command normal into pokes for easy BnB's and ECT. Not saying YOU NEED TO DO THAT, just something that people don't think about 🤷

[rancid marlin]

maybe

[split grotto]

I'm incredibly guilty of "X character looks cool. So I'm gonna try them with everything I have". So it's like I don't think I ever thought about the ease of use as an attraction. Now the opposite is true though. I like Meitenkun a lot, I suck at like run up into charge inputs so I gave up on trying him. So I don't want to do that again with Kukri. Plus he seems "base level" very basic since I haven't learned the teleport or like overhead special mix

[grim crypt]

I feel like I'm making decent progress with Yuri but idk something isn't clicking for me like it has for heidern as more a recent example

[sinful herald]

Imo it’s her short buttons, compared to everyone else you play she’s stubby as fuck. Well, and just like, in general lol. I honestly can’t believe it’s been almost 6 months I’ve been playing her, feels like no time at all and that I’ve barely learned anything

And every match I lose with her I can go back and be like, oh I didn’t threaten not even one single time:
-dive kick
-demon flip resets
-sweep > fireball
-trip guard
-frame traps

She has sooo many tools

[warped pine]

This is literally my King 😅

[split grotto]

Very weird, question. So I'm just comparing my characters damage and like meter efficiency and stuff like that. Is Joe just like really good or am I missing some better corner combos for my other characters? Like his .5 bar heavy jump in corner combo like builds like a whole bar or something crazy. It's just very damaging and very cheap

[magic harness]

Nah, Joe has some VERY good corner combos
I think his are one of the best corner combos in the game

[split grotto]

Alright that makes a lot of sense. I'll compare like all of my other characters and Joe just wins on meter efficiency and damage out of all the characters I've tried so far

Yamazki might win

Or at least be second

[magic harness]

Yeah, Yamazaki has some VERY good corner combos
Idk how to actually do most of them tho
Lol

[split grotto]

Yeah like this man Joe does 587 off of jD start for half a bar. I don't feel like any of my characters are doing that for that cheap

So I guess I'm not gonna use him as comparison point

[runic rain]

Cheap but very hard to pull off

[split grotto]

Guess it's a good thing I have it pretty consistent.

Just trying to read up on the wiki about the characters I'm playing

[split grotto]

Alright, I got 2 stupid questions.
#1 are air normals or at least air heavies more active in this game than most other fighting games?

#2 This is just an example but let's say I want to hyper hop jD at round start and I'm assuming they're gonna meet me halfway. What time do I press the button? Since I've pressing it like a little bit before I hit them but I feel everyone air buttons are faster

[grizzled heart]

tbh for #2 if you’re expecting them to meet you I would press a light normal instead

[grim crypt]

Yeah I think that's what messing me up is her buttons are to short for what I wanna do and when I do they either gut ducked or I get smacked for trying to get into range

[grizzled heart]

It depends on the character but generally a light normal will be faster in these situation

Like Iori J.b, Leona j.b, Kyo j.b etc

this is also a good way to begin offense but there are a lot of other ways

because this sounds more like an A2A situation

[grim crypt]

Yeah #2 can be very ambiguous because of so many variables could happen in that one instance

[grizzled heart]

and for the first question I can’t answer really… all air normals can be very plus if hit on the correct part of the opponents body

Yeah the round start just wait for the opponent is pretty strong too

[grim crypt]

yeah heavy air buttons just tend to have a lot more hitstun

but it depends on the character

[grizzled heart]

and if you do hit it on the wrong part of the body it isn’t plus it’s minus and you can get throw selected

[grim crypt]

heidern J.C doesn't have that much hitstun but it has the benefit of crossing up

[grizzled heart]

People here aren’t strong w/ throw OS only smoke has used it on my a TON a TON

[grim crypt]

yeah if your jump in was to high you're getting thrown

[split grotto]

So when when I say active. It's a, are the buttons hit box out for like a number of frames. Since either everyone I fight has REALLY good timing for it in anti airs or it's active for longer than I think

Since like, the air normals in this game feel like smash air buttons. Which is really weird, like they just all feel really active

[grim crypt]

Well yeah smash bros got most of it's inspiration from kof

[split grotto]

What the hell? Is KOF the great grandfather of FGs or something

[grizzled heart]

I don’t play smash so can’t speak on it haha

But yeah it did inspire sakurai directly

We should play later

[split grotto]

Well I suppose that makes a bit more sense. Since you can throw a button and watch someone walk into it. Instead of hitting them when the button came out

Which is hard to explain

[sinful herald]

It and street fighter. SNK was making fighting games before KOF

[sinful herald]

You can go on dream cancel to see frame data but yes, air buttons have a certain number of startup/active frames. Every character is going to have a good button for A2A and one for traditional jump ins

[split grotto]

I feel it's just like I assume I need to press the button when like they're within range. I can't put it into words correctly, I guess I just have no KOF feel for air buttons

Like everyone presses their air buttons so early and it just sorta seems to hit me

Oh I KNOW HOW TO WORD IT. So like I have a general idea of how to use both Shermie's and Sylvie's jCD since it's like those buttons have active frames as long as a super bowl commercial. Am I supposed to press like all of the air buttons that early? Where it doesn't "hit them" but like falls/collides with them

[grim crypt]

Look at this clip again

notice how I jumped before the shingo kick came out

I was more less doing that hop J.D to control the space

But it worked as an air to air

[split grotto]

Alright, so this is gonna sound probably counter active. So I used to do that, and got punished by the run up 2B. And still do sometimes, so that's why I tend to not jump and throw buttons since I've definitely gotten punished for it in the past

But I try to do the opposite and get SUPER stuffed with a barrage of damage if I run up after jump button

[grim crypt]

That just happens tyler lmao

sometimes the run up 2B will low profile certain jump normals

Like I know for sure you can low profile Kim's J,CD with most characters 2B

[split grotto]

I just assumed it was universal so I stopped doing it. Since it certainly felt like it happened a lot

Like how in most game an anti air has like upper body invul, assumed everyone's 2B just kinda did that

And I was just doing it very wrong

[split grotto]

Alright, this is the example of #1

This happens all the time. Am I pressing it to late?

[grim crypt]

yes

You need a faster button to air to air with or just anti air them instead

[split grotto]

Even though she also used her CD? I got hit like as soon as I was in the air

[grim crypt]

I'm not sure becasue mai's j.cd is pretty good

[grizzled heart]

at most in this situation you’d just get a trade

Idk if Kuk would beat it

[split grotto]

Is that because of a timing thing or just mai jCD?

[grizzled heart]

both but yeah

I just think being respectful and prolly not doing anything round start in this situation would be better

Idk if Mai J.CD can be trip guarded (probably) but that would be another option

[split grotto]

The only reason why I try it at round start is because his counter jCD combo is pretty good damage.

[split grotto]

Can not all air buttons be trip guarded?

[grizzled heart]

they prolly can haha I just don’t even trip guard so idk haha

More intermediate tech

To high level

[magic harness]

For j. CD, I tend to press it instantly after I leave the ground

For most characters, at least
Some are faster and better than others
Mai included
Her j. CD is absurd

[grim crypt]

It depends

[grizzled heart]

also j.cd startup depends on the character

Like k’ and Leona have slower startup J.CD’s so you kind of have to know your characters options and get a feel for them and when and how early to do them

(Slower startup compared to my other characters Kyo and Iori)

[split grotto]

A side tangent, so the wiki and like the guides all say like his ground buttons are not good since his air buttons are really good. Am I still supposed to like strictly limit the amount I jump?

[grizzled heart]

depends tbh, if your opponent is stopping your jumps that’s prolly going to force you not to jump

there’s never going to be one answer

[snow beacon]

It's not black and white. It really depends on your opponent and your characters.

[snow beacon]

This

[grizzled heart]

this game is pretty balanced tbh everyone can kinda hang and play, it’s about the player, that isn’t a very helpful piece of advice or explanation but that’s kind of just how KOF is

There’s never going to be one option that leads to a checkmate situation , there’s a multitude of options and a myriad of paths to go down in whatever situation you’re in

What I mean by this is like the only times you’re prolly gonna be in situations where you’re like DONT DO X DONT DO Y (outside of the obvious) is if someone checks u on it

[split grotto]

So far, since I put on this team for like 2 weeks or something like that. I feel my biggest take away is either I can't figure out air movement or it really isn't a good option. Which doesn't seem like the right idea.

[snow beacon]

Air movement is an excellent option, but not easy to achieve. It takes time.

I'm still getting it, myself.

[grizzled heart]

So like it’s never going to be like DONT JUMP unless your opponent clearly has a read on you, and at that point you can just diversify your approach, not even eliminating the option but going abt it in a different way if that makes sense

This is a hard game it takes time

I’m not even all the way there I’m mid hahah

Im playing no neutral November over here!!!! 🤡

[grim crypt]

Yeah this isn't like p4au tyler

[snow beacon]

Side note and advice based on our few matches so far: @split grotto I know you're new and learning to mount an offense, but also slow things down a little and practice playing reactionary in the neutral and approach. One of the first things I always tell people is to learn a good anti-air for each character.

[magic harness]

To add a bit to that, don't get conditioned
As a Shermie player, a HUGE part of my gameplan is making you afraid of something. If I'm doing DPs and Air to airs, is because I'm trying to make you afraid of jumping. So just beware of mind games when mid match

[grizzled heart]

Unlike my hair… DONT GET CONDITIONED

😤😤😤😤

[split grotto]

Just wanted to say, I appreciate the advice. I'm chatting in here to make sure I don't take the wrong information as like the only truth or something.

Since definitely something I've picked up so far is that, at least the way I'm using them. There's 4 ways to move yet somehow they all feel really bad. I understand the use of hops, I still barely see the use of hyper hops other than moving slightly farther. And the 2 regular jumps feel REALLY useless other than like super jumps

I'm understanding that there's no truly useless thing in thos game but a lot of things feel like they have a really niche use or a use I really don't understand

[snow beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/hair-flip-the-shampoo-horse-stare-gif-13442877

[grizzled heart]

How I look fr

[snow beacon]

Like the horse in the back?

[grizzled heart]

https://tenor.com/view/long-hair-indique-hair-celebrity-rihanna-hairstyle-for-long-hair-gif-21529551

[sinful herald]

Speaking only for myself but I do my best to have a plan A and plan B (see video for more details) when I take off. Typically I’m going for a traditional jump in, but some people like to jump in reaction to my jump and do an A2A. Andy’s and Leona’s are infamous for this

So for example with Shun, I’ll take off wanting to do jump D, but if I see them jump in response I’m pressing C because it’s a killer A2A button and wins lots of exchanges or at worst, trades and possibly makes them think twice. Every character is gonna have these buttons

And no, j.CD is the exception where it has to be pressed super early to come out in time to win an A2A

This is also why consistently going for A2A’s isn’t worth it long term, because good opponents will catch on, wait for you to whiff and trip guard you into 40% or more

Winning an A2A is pretty meaningless long term, it’s basically a return to neutral

[sinful herald]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BwR-mRl5PQg

[magic harness]

@split grotto
AH, I commented about your matches but forgot to tell you how I see auto combos.
In my humble opinion, it depends a lot on the character. Idk Kukri nor Shingo, so I can't say for sure.
But Sylvie's, for example? It's actually very good. It's not optimal, only optimal auto combo is Billy, but considering some aspects, some characters auto combos are very good
Never do AAAA, this is something I do when killing my opponent's anchor, just for style. But it's BAD for everyone
But for example, if you have 3 bars with Sylvie, you can do AAAB, 623B, Climax. This is just a bit harder to do, but still SUPER easy to confirm and the damage doesn't scale that much. Or even better yet, you can do AAAB, 623B, 236236B
That deals a good amount of damage for one bar, easy confirm, and you can do a safe jump after the super, allowing you to mash A out of some pressures and start pressuring them back instantly.
If they block, AAAB is safe on block. Minus, but still safe.
Yamazaki on the other hand has a terrible auto combo. Never do it. AAAB ends in his cmd grab, so it's SUPER punishable on block and you can't combo specials after it, making it horrible.
Kim can even do Cl. B, AAAB, Super Kick, rest of the combo. Kim can start his auto combo from a standing low, and get his full big combos after it for BIG damage.

Geese has a VERY fast 5A, so his auto combo starter is better than most chars, and he can combo specials after it. With 3 bars, he can even combo into Rashomon, doing exactly 55% damage. Very good.
Angel can't combo specials after her auto combo, but it's safe on block, and considering it can start from 2B, even tho it deals a bit less damage than her optimal 2B starters, Angel combos are so hard to execute it makes the auto combo a very good option.
So it's very character dependent imo. I'd tell you to experiment with auto combos for Shingo and Kukri. See if they can start from a standing low or 2B, and if the ender is safe on block or special cancelable

Another good thing about Auto Combos.
Mind games.
People tend to get salty if you finish your first match or even one of the rounds with an auto combo special like AAAA, AAAC or AAAD.
People believe auto combos are bad and they shouldn't be getting hit by them. So if you do decide to use them, notice your opponent will probably get salty and start playing differently.
Which is a BIG part of my Shermie gameplan

[magic harness]

@meager portal, I think you commented exactly that once. Don't let the auto combos get to you, they are actually very easy to hit, and not bad at all damage wise if I do AAAB, Supers.

[split grotto]

Is AAAC different from AAAA?

[magic harness]

If you have 3 bars, AAAA will be Climax ender
AAAC will be Lv1 or 2, Idk which tbh

I think Lv1
Even with 3 bars, you'll only spend one

[split grotto]

That's why I wasn't doing auto combos, since I really didn't want to spend all the butter and I thought I had not other options after starting one

[magic harness]

Nope, the last button you press is what defines how much bar you gonna spend

The problem is...
Happens quite a lot when you're going for AAAB, is pressing one more A than you should and end up spending like 3 bars when you didn't want to, or on block...
And that HURTS

But...
I still think it's worth it, just don't mash too much
Lmfao

[warped pine]

This is BIG FACTS with me in ranked. It gets you directly under my skin 😅

...which is also why I started doing them more in matches lol

Also when it comes to autocombos, I've practiced mashing just AAA and stopping unless I plan on going further

Or doing ABAA

[rancid marlin]

Some devious players smh where is the honor

[grizzled heart]

Right

[magic harness]

I am honorable!

[rancid marlin]

@split grotto be wary of you attack properties on block. There are normals that miss crouchers and things of this nature, so when you are building your blockstring be wary of which hits have x amount of pushback to even connect with a blocking opponent. For instance I saw you do like 2B 2B 5A with Shingo, but since your opponent stayed crouch blocking the 5A whiffed. Or like with Kukri you’d do like 2B into his 6A it would just miss altogether. Something you will have to kinda play around with in training mode to help you get familiar with your normals and all that. Check out your characters’ dream cancel pages it’s all there to help give a visual. Also need to have more intent behind your jumps. Can’t air block in this game, and people are over deliberate in their attempts to stop jumps. Just watch what they are doing. Zerostorm would neutral hop or sweep you in neutral to try to deter you from approaching, cause Shingo you gotta get in, and Shingo far normals aren’t the fastest. Try to focus on building a decent enough ground game to where you aren’t inclined to just jump around. Really try to get that run up low combo down cause the moments where you’re not jumping in, you still can get some damage out if you can find your way to the money. Also use your crouch and CD whiff cancels to give yourself some range on your specials. This will help a lot playing many characters when trying to close that gap.

[plush delta]

Luna is so toxic

Next thing you know, luna is gonna use modern controls in sf6 to make the opponent salty

[split grotto]

I ended up labbing specifically the 2C 6A on Kukri because it misses super often

[grim crypt]

the only auto combo I use is Heidern's

it ends with storm bringer so it's guarantee safe jump/cross up

[rancid marlin]

yeah I don't play Kukri like that so I'm not sure what's up with that hopefully that works though

[magic harness]

I am not!!!!!!

[split grotto]

Ah it does it's like. If an air normal hits and I'm not close enough the 2C just pushes them too far away

[plush delta]

Liar. Proof is you play shermie!

[magic harness]

Athena is worse!

[plush delta]

Luna just admitted that her goal is to make her opponent salty

[split grotto]

There's a lot of things I want to work on but spacing my air normals my ground game are probably number 1 and 2 since I can somewhat land the sand combos now

[plush delta]

Definitely dodging luna hehe

[magic harness]

Not always...

[rancid marlin]

I also say, change up the way you approach, this game gives you the freedom to run, 2 hops, and 2 jumps. Use your neutral hop/jump more for air to air or to halt opponent advances. Watch out cause missing air to airs some will try to punish your landing

[rancid marlin]

so sometimes

[magic harness]

Sometimes...
Not against you tho
Lmfao

I don't need Daru coming at me with hatred

[rancid marlin]

If I want to win I know what I can do

[magic harness]

LOL
Turn on rage mode?

[split grotto]

I don't know what skill level Snake is but I'd say the 2 of us has a very solid set so I'm gonna upload that when I get off work

[rancid marlin]

The opposite

[magic harness]

Ahhhhhh
Yeah...
I struggle with patient opponents
Tricky just stood there...
Menacingly
With Ash
And I just couldn't do anything

[plush delta]

Who’s snake?

[split grotto]

Sneeek*

[rancid marlin]

Cause Tricky probably already caught a read on you and Ash pokes pale in comparison to a lot of other characters who can freely mash shit and actually have the range to do so

[plush delta]

Oh cherry. Tbh I think the reason you’re getting frustrated is you have too high a standard since you’ve been facing mostly the killers here

I think Lou does the same. He would get too negative when he loses to the killers but most of here lose to the killers

It’s why I’m excited to play sf6, cause I can chill in casual low ranks without worrying about finding opponents.

KoF, only the die hard vets and killers remain

[magic harness]

Honestly, probably.
But I still have no idea tbh about what to do
She just kept there, holding down back.
I rolled, ate full heavy combo
Hopped, ate a Flash Kick
Ran up, ate a full light combo
Run grab? She jumped and full heavy combo
Accel to sideswitch? Flash Kick
Light Accel? Flash Kick

I tried to bait
I ran up and neutral hopped, to see if I could catch a button or smt
But she didn't even react

I might've done those wrong
But I actually tried everything
O. Sherm zoning also didn't work
Ash can out zone her

[rancid marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/geese-geese-howard-parry-predictable-predict-gif-24092146

[magic harness]

And to make it even worse, ofc my mix ups didn't work on her
She taught me those
Lmfao

[magic harness]

Yeah, I felt exactly that

[rancid marlin]

Gotta learn your own style of combat

[magic harness]

Let's be stuck in Gold forever!

[rancid marlin]

This definitely makes this game sound like it’s just destined to fail even more than it has been, which truthfully sucks.

[magic harness]

I actually played a bit of 02 when I was a kid
And a bit of XIII with my brothers
But my first serious Kof was XV
And it's not THAT bad
Lol

[split grotto]

The way I see it, I'm either going to turn into a diamond under pressure or crumble trying. And I refuse to stop

Plus the game is fun

Also my tilt goes away like the next day every time

[magic harness]

You can definitely do it
The way you're inclined to learning, you'll get there for sure

[warped pine]

I plan to max out at Iron 🤣

[snow beacon]

In SFV, I stopped playing ranked at Ultra Silver, and just played casuals and rooms. It was a much less sweaty level up experience.

[plush delta]

I’m dodging you. I’m staying in bronze

[snow beacon]

For a salty person like myself, I did myself a favor.

[plush delta]

Well you have the odds stacked against you. If you do survive though, you’re gonna end up one of the best players ever

[sinful herald]

Lol fighting game players “Ohh I made them so mad just now! Mind games!1!1!2”

Give me a break

You want to get in someone’s head? AA every single jump in they do, that’ll actually net some visible results unless they just refuse to be conditioned to not jump in which case, cool

[sinful herald]

Until we look at how long the franchise has been around, who’s backing it with cash, and the fact that they literally just moved into a brand new office

Every game will eventually get “too sweaty” (even SF6 watch) for some players, it’s just a coping mechanism like “broken matchmaking” was all last year. Meanwhile we were all happily playing the video game

[rancid marlin]

SF6 player base and content will make all the difference. MK is upcoming. There isn’t much SNK could do about their position in the race other than cater to their consistent audience.

[magic harness]

Ofc, only auto comboing won't get you there
Conditioning is much more important than getting them salty
But everyone knows we play worse when salty, we auto pilot and make the same mistakes over and over again

That is not something I'd want to do here, cuz y'all are friends
But in ranked or in a tourney or smt? Why not?
Lmao

[sinful herald]

People will play MK for 6 months and then move on. SF6 is the newest hot chick at the party; eventually she’ll get shit on for any variety of reasons and it won’t matter if they’re true or not. I think SNK is doing the respectable thing by sticking to their guns and core audience, because chasing dragons is a losing bet and people are fickle

[magic harness]

I hate Punk, he is not a good professional and I personally think he is not a good person in general.
But teabagging is something he does a lot, because he knows it messes up people's heads

I personally never teabagged, because even I have some standards LMFAO
But I do see it as a valid strat

[split grotto]

If I was in a tourney I'd need to be escorted out because I certainly would sing Mary Jane if I land a single Bombo

[split grotto]

I think I do pretty well against people around my level

[rancid marlin]

I'm waiting on Tekken 8, so my bias is there beyond everything, but I know how people talk down on KOF already. SF6 dropping is gonna be that super mainstream event. But yeah MK I think I saw it was like one of the most pre ordered games as of late on PS? That don't mean shit tho lol

[sinful herald]

This is what I’m saying tho; it’s clown-ish and they are only playing themselves, thinking they are in someone’s head. I remember when we first played Cherry here and she was bagging (I wasn’t even knocked down btw lmao) and I asked her, “Hey what were you buffering?”, knowing full well what she was doing

She then explained what I already knew lol. Who’s in who’s head now, know what I mean? I just think of all the things that we can do, engaging in faux mind games isn’t one of them

Run up throw 3 times in a row is a mind game (surely they won’t do it a 3rd time in a row…right?)

Making assumptions on someone’s mental state just seems beyond pretentious, like no we don’t have that much control over another person, that’s troll wet dream material and bringing up Punk sorta proves this. He’s good but he’ll never be great because he can’t get out of his own way

[plush delta]

A lot of mk players aren’t FGC players and are only there to play story mode and see the fatalities

[plush delta]

There’s a no T-Bagging rule for this server

Also realized there is this rule

That one might be a good reminder for Lou

[magic harness]

I do agree!
But imo, it's not about assuming how they feel and more like observing what they do
I'll assume they are salty if they start making the same mistakes over and over again
Not because I actually know how they're feeling or want to controll them so much

[sinful herald]

It’s just my opinion that any time thinking about our opponents mental state is bandwidth that’s far better spent on any number of other things

[split grotto]

Oof

[plush delta]

Sometimes people tbag not to gain mental advantage. Sometimes people are just toxic assholes

[sinful herald]

I agree but one persons toxic asshole is another persons clown shoe, see my point? I find it funny whenever I encounter it

[plush delta]

If my opponent tbags me, I just leave

[sinful herald]

It’s like watching a small man puff his chest up like bro, chill out don’t hurt yourself

[magic harness]

But yes, I do agree with that
As you said, true conditioning always will have a priority
But then again, in ranked?
Everything for the win.

Everything.

[plush delta]

You sound like cherry haha

[magic harness]

She is my bestie
Lol

[sinful herald]

Everything for the win would naturally not include things that could impede the victory, no?

If we’re really distilling it down to only things necessary for the dub

[sinful herald]

You’re giving them what they want imo

[plush delta]

Eh I rather not waste my time

[sinful herald]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EZuOPGvXdtM

Skip ahead to match 2 you’ll know it when you see it

[sinful herald]

That’s fair, time is the most valuable currency we have after all

[rancid marlin]

what the Luong player?

[sinful herald]

Re:bagging

[rancid marlin]

damn I saw it as soon as you sent this

smh

What did Baga do? or is Excelancer just being toxic

[sinful herald]

As far as I can tell Baga didn’t do anything, just lost the first game kinda badly

[rancid marlin]

He has the big man team

Maxima

[sinful herald]

And was losing the second until…well lol

[rancid marlin]

I love it

[warped pine]

Throwing a Maxima Baja Blast from the opposite corner in Ranked gets my opponent recklessly running at me ~95% of the time 😂

[sinful herald]

Dino popped tf off

[rancid marlin]

Yeah that's great

[plush delta]

Lost my respect for him

[rancid marlin]

Very satisfying win

[sinful herald]

I can appreciate his skill at the game while also thinking he’s prob a bit of a douche. He RQ on stream (during opp level 3) some time ago on TNS

I still steal the Shun tech lol

[plush delta]

What a loser. And his tbag backfiring is recorded for eternity

[rancid marlin]

shout out to my honorable warriors

[sinful herald]

It pairs so well with what we’re talking about; “Oh my goodness I’m so OD got this in the bag let me play some ‘mind games’” and it just blew up in his face

I doubt that Baga gave the bagging one single solitary thought, was busy thinking about how to claw back to victory. The only person who was preoccupied by the tea was the one who lost

[rancid marlin]

with a team like his u gotta be humble

[sinful herald]

Luong and Isla players amirite?

[rancid marlin]

we not gonna ignore that Iori creeping at anchor...

two types of players fr

[split grotto]

Alright this is maybe a weird request. After I upload this video in however long it takes. Can I like get into a discord call with someone while they review it? So I can ask questions

[rancid marlin]

depends. I might can help out

[split grotto]

It might be a while since I gotta manually record all the matches and then upload them

[rancid marlin]

u got PS5?

[split grotto]

Yar

You want to screen share them instead?

[rancid marlin]

You already have them on your computer?

I'm not rushing you or anything

just curious how you do this

[split grotto]

No not at all

[rancid marlin]

cause I just save the clips with share then put them on YT

[split grotto]

I go into replays, start one, start recording with the PS5, rinse and repeat for all the matches

Then go into share factory and splice them together and edit out the dead space

[rancid marlin]

ok well lmk when you done doing all that

[split grotto]

A solid chunck of this set is me getting bullied by Angel but I'll still upload it

[runic rain]

Legacy of @torpid quarry

@sinful herald Mind games in fighters shouldn't even hold a strat as it does but it's looked so negatively upon the flock comes together and gets salty collectively until that 1 person just looks over it and keeps on playing. Other games that has worse t-bagging like COD and DBD is more understandable because it's not a juggle of who can best who with neutral and ect. I never understood the T-Bag thing imo it holds no meaning imo 👀

[torpid quarry]

Well it’s not like y’all can get a full combo

[runic rain]

You lack condition which is the DBZF in ua

[sinful herald]

I’ve been toying around with this idea glad it’s not just me

[torpid quarry]

Idk it’s just not that threatening tbh

Imo

[sinful herald]

Mind games do have a place in competitive environments, but it’s more along the lines of, “I know they know that I know about xyz” and we can subvert expectations/play around the other persons game plan

If people collectively shrugged at tea bagging it would go away pretty quickly

[sinful herald]

Same bro. Oh I got AA’d? hazshrug

“ok”

[torpid quarry]

If I’m not scared to lose in general how you expect me to be scared to lose a character let alone a A2A

[sinful herald]

Like what do you get out of it? Nada? That’s what I thought

[torpid quarry]

I Roman cancel tbag then super to kill💀💀😂

Mid combo

With my friends

[sinful herald]

Idk what any or that means

[torpid quarry]

Play strive

[runic rain]

My son we can AA 100 times and you'd still jump

[runic rain]

Yeah, I guess it never donged on me because it's just useless

[sinful herald]

Pun intended?

[grizzled heart]

Dong ?!

[runic rain]

Why would that be a pun?

OOOOOOOOOH okay.....

[grizzled heart]

It really dong’d on me

[runic rain]

I say "This just donged on me" all the time to state that I just figured something out 🤣

[grizzled heart]

Haha it’s dawned

[runic rain]

WHAT

Bro fuck deep South Texas

Wow I hear donged all the time down here

[grizzled heart]

You been saying someone been laying Dong on u 😂

[plush delta]

Different strokes for different folks. Some people find it very disrespectful so they don’t like it. Just because it holds no meaning for you doesn’t mean it’s the same for others so you shouldn’t do it to other people

[runic rain]

SHUT YO ASS UP

I gotta get out of Texas

I'm always finding out shit on what we say is wrong 💀

[runic rain]

That's when I respect people's wishes 😏

If they state that it's BM'ing to them then stop

Simple and easy fix lmao

[grizzled heart]

Tbf it’s the same exact sound you just using the wrong word spelling

In the funniest way possible

[plush delta]

Maybe don’t do it in the first place?

Only do it against someone you already know doesn’t care about it

[runic rain]

I mean it's not like I'm MASHING down 💀

Last person I actually T bagged was Luna

[runic rain]

Just blame Texas

[grizzled heart]

I think it’s just u 😂

[runic rain]

Yeah true

Tbh it most likely is what I hear

[grizzled heart]

🧠 I already knew the diff 🧠

[runic rain]

I hear the G

[grizzled heart]

It dong’d on me

New server phrase

[runic rain]

I mean in my defense it's like the sound of getting hit on the head kinda 🤣 frying pan goes DONG on someone's scalp

[grizzled heart]

LFMAO

https://tenor.com/view/maymay-entrata-maymay-marydale-frying-pan-smash-gif-17894304

[torpid quarry]

That’s why like y’all can’t Tod off that so it doesn’t matter how many times I get AA and also I don’t jump as much anymore so L 🤓

[runic rain]

You barely play also always on Apex

[torpid quarry]

I haven’t played apex in like four days my squad annoyed me and I’ve been playing dbfz cuz the new update

It’s fun

[runic rain]

Ew

Just

EW

[sinful herald]

Bro I had to mute Bum’s discord bc he kept @ing everyone over dumb shit. Plus zero word on KOF lol

Not even saying DBFZ is dumb but the other stuff was. Felt like being a victim of a group text every day 😭

[torpid quarry]

Yeah sometimes when he hosts events the dbfz players don’t listen and go Mia so that’s why

[snow beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-giggle-happy-gif-14414515

[magic harness]

I don't even remember
Lmfao

[magic harness]

@torpid quarry
Are you the only Gato here?
Any tips and stuff? I might wanna learn him

Not sure yet tbh
I'm labbing him rn, and I think got some good combos and bnbs
But I have no idea how to actually use his stuff out of combos
His normals seem pretty good, having a cancelable far C is amazing, and he seems pretty easy to play in general
His damage is also good
But I just don't know if I'm playing him right

[runic rain]

Gato tips, he's very straightforward, strong pressure, damage nerf, you just need solid neutral tbh

[magic harness]

Cuz I'm just gonna play him kinda like Kim
Rushdown, get in and do stuff

[runic rain]

Well he is a versatile character, especially rush

[magic harness]

His damage was nerfed?
Still seems pretty good tbh

[runic rain]

I taught @torpid quarry Gato that fucker

[magic harness]

LMFAO

[runic rain]

He had easy links that would deal a ton of damage

Light links going into ex 236AA

[magic harness]

Ok then!
Amazing

[runic rain]

They took away his biggest combo starter and changed his 236236B super which doesn't go as far anymore

So now you have to OS to his neck snap super

He does have a new link though!!

[magic harness]

Looks cooler either way
Lol

[runic rain]

Play Gato like Kula, not Kim, Kim is better than Gato imo when it comes to damage and even setplay

[magic harness]

Yeah, I remember seeing some replays of people doing 2A into 236AC

[runic rain]

Man had it EASY

They took it away lmao

[magic harness]

Right! I just...
Wish I could play Kula
Lmfao
I play her like a crackhead, I just hop around and DP

[runic rain]

Tbh I would never play Gato because Kim does it better Gato

They literally replaced Gato with a whole new character 💀 also you play Kula like Angel 🤣

Except DP you leg grab

[magic harness]

LMFAO

Yessssssss

I'm playing everyone wrong

[runic rain]

Just stay on a character girl 🤣 your style is blending 💀

[magic harness]

LOL
I wanna learn everyone!!!!

But yes, I should focus more on my main team

I need to get my Angel better
And I need to get better in general with Shermies too
Stop the rolls...

[runic rain]

KOF is systems game, you know 1 character you know 90% of the roster

Also Def that Angel isn't it lmao

Shermie is the strongest 💀

[runic rain]

@split grotto think about it this order. These are all after your 2a pressure. poke run poke, poke to sweep, poke to CD, poke to jump. The Rock Paper Scissors are Hop, Sweep, jab, and do nothing to get a reaction

[split grotto]

I'll give it a try, one of the problems I noticed with me playing this game is they I feel everyone is super proactive in their button presses but when I do it I just kind of die. So that's why I just try to block

[runic rain]

Being mobile is one big thing in KOF jumping back, pressing lights in neutral and just being very mobile

A sitting duck gets shot

[split grotto]

I feel I can make space but I can't do anything with that space. And just throwing out normals I feel like I'm just inviting a counter hit or some stray thing to hit me. Like being midscreen and just throwing out like 5B or 5A to me so far is just throwing my hurt box for no reason good reason.

But once again I'm still just learning KOF

[torpid quarry]

My gato is absolutely trash

😂😂😂

[grizzled heart]

Tripp won evo

[split grotto]

Alright, so I can trip guard pretty alright with Joe, and I'm try to get better with it as Shingo but how do characters with short 2Bs or even worse confirms off of 2B do anything off that trip guard?

[split grotto]

It's something I'd like to go into training with someone and figure it out or just take any advice in general

[grim crypt]

you don't have to trip guard with a 2B

You can use sweep as well

but personally you shouldn't worrying about it that much since it's hard to do in a real match

[split grotto]

I see

I'm still trying to figure out that whole KOF triangle and such. So I guess I'll try to work on that

[sinful herald]

2B > 2A

And they just have to be closer is all

Also 2B > 5B

Etc

[sinful herald]

Honestly I wish I’d started trying to learn it sooner

[split grotto]

It's just I get hit when I need to get close to them because of their air normals

[sinful herald]

We can’t trip guard properly spaced and timed air normals

They have to be off in either or both of those factors

So we have to get good at recognizing when the situation calls for in, that’s why I said I wished I had started going for it right away

[split grotto]

@plush delta I wanted to ask how I did in you opinion

[plush delta]

You were super strong! We are same skill level. You have better combos while I’m a cheap zoner 🙂

[lament mirage]

We should play more, Tyler

[magic harness]

So Tyler officially out of the newbie squad?

Wait, I think he never was in the first place, right?

And zoning is valid

[plush delta]

He never was in the newbie squad

He has the 2 touch combos for all 3 of his characters

[magic harness]

Yessssss
Tyler biggest problem rn is that he is only on when the killers are on
So he only faces people like me, Cherry, Rise and Zero

[torpid quarry]

Trip

[magic harness]

You fought Tyler?
How did it go?

[torpid quarry]

It went ||I never fought him||

[magic harness]

LMFAO
ok.

||Trying to be like Daru||

[torpid quarry]

I’m Tripru

[split grotto]

Everyone who zones except Oliver, I hope their pillow doesn't have a cold side on Sundays

[split grotto]

I felt I've made some improvements swimming with the sharks we call killers. Happe to see it at least showed

[split grotto]

If you're on just randomly @ me in the middle of the afternoon I'll probably be around

[torpid quarry]

Maybe I haven’t been playing kof at all

[split grotto]

I mean I'm ready to eat shit in SF6 when it comes out

I'll be on that when it comes out

[torpid quarry]

Same

[grim crypt]

I'm considered a killer

[magic harness]

Yes.

You are strong af
Honestly, imo, if you have your neutral down, safe jumps, big combos, gameplan and/or are able to go toe to toe in big sets against a killer here, you are one.

[warped pine]

and you consistently destroyed me in the SF6 beta 🤣

[runic rain]

Why would you say that bro 😭 I need my warmth

[grizzled heart]

Why except Oliver 😈

Zoning is valid

[plush delta]

Tyler doesn’t hate me

[grizzled heart]

I hate you 😈😈😈😈😈😈😈

Evil Duncan

[plush delta]

I used Robert in my set against Tyler too!

[grizzled heart]

Who is Robert ?

Bobert

[plush delta]

The true king

Dive kick spam king

[grizzled heart]

Yun dive kick better

Robert ratio’d by Benimaru Drill Kick

I need to pick up Beni

and Terry

Hate fighting both of them so much I must find their weaknesses

[plush delta]

Jamie has the yun dive kick

[grizzled heart]

He isn’t Yun tho

[split grotto]

Become a Guile main, I'll never win because I absolutely don't have the patience for that match

[split grotto]

https://twitter.com/HenTy56/status/1663197857887711233?t=5rxv8FZvz8WXFqE4LryF_A&s=19

Joe players, is this worth to dedicate to memory? Like to always have it on deck at mid screen or maybe a bit farther

Hen-Tylee (@HenTy56)

Proof of concept for round start Joe

▶ Play video

Twitter · May 29, 2023, 2:57 PM

[slate mica]

I need to remind myself that it took me 3 years before I became competent at wrestling and 4 years before I started winning. Doesn't mean I'm going to be have any less drive to improve now, but I am a slower learner than most

[rancid marlin]

https://tenor.com/view/the-elite-the-cleaner-kennyomega-bte-aew-gif-15760320

[slate mica]

Nick Jackson needs that after last night

[warped pine]

https://tenor.com/view/edge-fitness-superkick-gif-19938141

[magic harness]

Ramon Kick

[split grotto]

I know I've asked this before, but knowing what buttons to press at like what time and range is a game sense thing? Like it just happens as I play

[snow beacon]

I just takes practice for that situational awareness. That's why it's important to know your button's ranges and uses so you can press with purpose.

[split grotto]

So I like know the range of like Shingo's 5C but I swear that's top 3 useless buttons.

It's special cancelable I do know that

[rancid marlin]

Yeah his far C is a joke button. Good range but you whiff it and it will suck

[split grotto]

It tactically misses hops and it's sad

[rancid marlin]

Lol yeah super characteristic of Shingo

5D is way better for this though

Or 5A, 2C to stop the jumps

His 2C is pretty ight

[snow beacon]

idk how you gonna do a celebratory jump, then change the trajectory and fall on your face. the boy has to have a brain lesion somewhere

[split grotto]

I have a similar problem with me not seeing the use of Sylvie's 2C and her 5C when her CD seems to be like the same but a CD. Unless it's QM filler

And 2C is just smol

[rancid marlin]

I feel like her 2C although short, can be used depending on your timing. But her 5C is a weird one but she shifts herself forward so you maybe can hit someone who whiffs an attack

She still new and I haven’t fully gotten comfortable using her myself but she does have DP and j.A/D or CD for air to air

[split grotto]

I'm just to not think my characters buttons are all useless minus a few. Joe's C buttons are an example. I understand his 5C is an Omega hop check

But like other wise why would I use 2C?

[rancid marlin]

Has hella range. Special cancellable. Seems to be a recurring Fatal Fury character attack. Can do that into fireball or something or like 2C then QM. His 5C is the same way minus the special cancel. Stuff them with a heavy punch

[split grotto]

I tend to use 5C as my poke at that range but I can try 2C more

[rancid marlin]

Well the trade off is 5C can be low profiled and 2C they can hop you and big punish be careful with these they aren’t the fastest moves to recover

[split grotto]

That's why I'm trying to get a feel for all of my options

Especially on defense and neutral

So I'm trying to see what buttons I under utilize

[rancid marlin]

Definitely could make use of everything, but there will be priority of you to keep using the ones that are actually reasonable

[snow beacon]

agreed. while it would be great to utilize the full kit, it's not really necessary. have you seen tekken's move lists?? lol usually 50% or less is needed

or with chris, all you need is j.CD

[rancid marlin]

I was literally about to say, on tekken there were moves I never used like that unless we were in long casual sets and I wanted to flex my move list knowledge and throw you off

[snow beacon]

lmao yeah, the obscure moves are my casual move list flex too. lemme just hit you with this 10 hit combo

[split grotto]

So my main team is Liz or Sylvie point, Shingo, Joe. And a common issue is I get ran over since I don't know what to do on defense

[snow beacon]

tangent aside, prioritize the tried and true moves, but it's okay to throw out the others as long as it doesn't cause confusion

[grizzled heart]

Bro doing 10 hits !!!

Your honor that’s the man who was doing 10 hit strings

[snow beacon]

Are you always looking out for jumps or hops? What type of playstyle do you intend to employ (rushdown, etc)?

[sinful herald]

[split grotto]

I do just as a whole I enjoy rushing down. Which is weird since I picked Joe but I digress. I don't exactly look out for hops since I'm just trying to figure out when it's my turn. I have jabbed gops before but I never know what to do after it

I do enjoy at least enjoy having a fireball as an option

[snow beacon]

That's where time and just playing the game and gaining experience will help you find your answers. Defense is a difficult thing in KOF, compared to other fighting games. There are so many things to look out for, from 4 different jumps, movesets from the myriad of characters, all while trying to learn 3 for yourself. I'd just be repeating what everyone's been saying regarding what to learn for defense. It will just take time and perseverance.

As for follow ups after an anti-air, again that's where experience will lend itself, but that requires trial and error, but also your reactions and understanding how your opponent likes to play.

[snow beacon]

Yeah, you read that right.

Okay, no not really, obviously. There was some hidden sarcasm there.

Kinda like that's all Shermie needed in S1

[sinful herald]

Lol this part is true. Chris takes actual skill since he has all the tools but his damage is booty

[slate mica]

So I'm training my low confirms on random guard and lv 3 cpu. Not seeing any progress in matches. Is there a different approach to light confirms I can take to make them more consistent?

[runic rain]

Depends on what your characters have

[slate mica]

Sylvie, Iori, Shermie, Clark, Dolores

My Sylvie and Iori are ROUGH

Shermie, Clark, and Dolores I've had more time and experience with, so I'm more consistent with them

But my Sylvie and Iori are kinda dogwater atm

[runic rain]

Light confirms can be made a tad easier if you have a command normal to just make it easier, like Dolores she can just do crouch lp into 6a. Try to find 2-3 hits to visually get the hang of them. Set the AI on random block and

[slate mica]

Yeah, Dolores and Clark are the only ones I can really consistently get in matches

[split grotto]

I know like I can do light confirm on Shingo and Liz but like not Ramón because the input is weird as hell

[runic rain]

Sylvie can do 2ba2a5b into her a few normals. Same with Iori. He has great buttons, test out your strings and see what connect's then try the AI

[slate mica]

I know Iori and Sylvie NEED to get gud with lows to work

[runic rain]

In all honesty that is what I do to understand

[slate mica]

This is what I'm currently doing

It's not translating for me

[runic rain]

aaaaaaaah gotcha!

[slate mica]

Like, I get it in practice but not in matches

[split grotto]

It ain't easy, it took a while for me to get it. I just tried to get the muscle memory in training and against CPU matches

@runic rain if you got any suggestions on my gameplay from this set let me know. Other than SK less, sometimes I do it without thinking or believe it or not, by accident

[slate mica]

See, I don't know if it is muscle memory at this point. Because, like, I can consistently do this Iori consistency workout from one side of the stage and back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QuK1YbBj0k

And I've been doing this for 3 weeks

And I'm not getting it in ANY matches

It's not a matter of knowing the strings. It's a matter of hitting them in matches

[split grotto]

Ah so I hope this doesn't seem like a cop out since I'm gonna assume you're doing it anyways. But have you tried in a game looking for the window to do it? Like as a punish for something stupid or something along those lines? I ask that since that's like one of the main ways I get my large combos to land in a match.

Or like practicing, seeing the situation come up and executing what I did in training. That's one of the reasons I jump in so much because I can't confirm off of a raw close C because I react to slow

[slate mica]

Okay, so like, you all don't make huge mistakes like I do that leave me open for these big punishes.

I don't get those opportunities in Matchmaking.

Like, yes, you full combo me every time I whiff a dp.

I don't get those opportunities because I can't fight myself

lol

[split grotto]

I whiff DPs too I promise. Also just jumping over things is a get way to confirm. Which is an obvious answer but like I'm prone to getting my projectiles jumped over. Or like just lows in general with a neutral hop or jump

But don't be afraid to just ask Zero about it since he is the local Iori scumbag player

[slate mica]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOEhbH9Be-A

Okay so, like, 14 seconds in. I get the jump-in and the confirm gets fucked.
37 seconds, I think I'm playing Shermie and blow another confirm.
48, I go for a confirm, but I'm too far out

I am trying my BEST not to be self-deprecating, but I am leaving so much damage on the table. And the fact that I have to play matches nearly perfectly to win while my mistakes on defense mean I'm giving my opponents too much leeway to play imperfect matches isn't going to cut it.

3:55, another low and I fuck the confirm

4:19 same thing

4:21, same thing

5:03, same thing

7:09, SAME THING

7:40. SAME THING

I am doing my best to not get frustrated here, but this is an issue that is not only hurting ME, but also people who play me in matches

And this sloppy play is only going to make folks who play me think they can get away with these tactics when they play better players too.

[split grotto]

Combos drop man. I promise I drop more than I land in and long set. This is probably bad advice but I'd say just try focusing on only landing the combo instead of winning the match. But ask for a second opinion please

[slate mica]

Yeah, but count how many combos I hit with Iori and Sylvie in these matches

The answer is 0

And I practice with them more than anyone else on the team right now

It's not a matter of combos dropping

It's a matter of not hitting a single one in 3 straight matches

Anyway, I'll leave you be. Because I'm overloading you with a lot of angst right now, and I apologize for that. I just don't know what I need to change in the way I practice to actually start playing the game.

[grim crypt]

Ok are you panicking when you get the hit Lou or staying calm

[slate mica]

I dunno. I'm locked into the match

I'm not mashing inputs or anything

I'm not panicking afaik; I'm just focusing on trying to win neutral

But that's not really being calm either. I don't think it's possible to stay "calm" in a match

[torpid quarry]

Honestly I’m starting to think the only way to actually get more confident in execution is by not visually reacting to the special moves coming out during bombos

[slate mica]

Interesting approach. How do you confirm the hits then?

[torpid quarry]

I meant in combos

Hit confirms are ez you just do em🤓🤓🤓

[slate mica]

oh, of course

[runic rain]

Tripp you are no help

In all honesty man there is no special tech you can do to help which is the frustrating part. You will have to practice until you get use to them

[torpid quarry]

Oh im not responding to Lou im just generally saying

[runic rain]

STILL NO HELP

[torpid quarry]

How

[runic rain]

Because

[sinful herald]

This is true for the Yuri 1.5 route. After EX demon you just gotta close your eyes and press C~236BD if you wait to see the hit it’s too late

[sinful herald]

Maybe “deliberate” is a better word?

[slate mica]

Hmmm, okay, yeah, that's probably a better way to phrase it.

Because any time I'm going to a 2B I'm either looking to 1) low confirm or 2) low profile a jump-in.

With Dolores you get a 6A confirm off that for free no matter whether it's a block or hit, but since Sylvie's 2B is a bit more stubby going 2B xx 5B got me killed for being just out of range.

[sinful herald]

Yeah it’s gonna be different for each character, with Sylvie (and other stubby characters like Yuri or Liz) we gotta take advantage of their super fast run speed

[slate mica]

Noted. So not just different approach, but also different defensive low profiles

[sinful herald]

Oh yeah for trip guarding it’s way different, like when I do it with Yuri there’s always the possibility that I do it “correctly” and still get clipped because 2B has insanely short range

Part of trip guarding is knowing the jump arcs of the cast, and kind of…creating the illusion that we’re in range when we aren’t

Thereby forcing an over jump or them coming up short

[slate mica]

THAT'S what I'm missing. Okay, this makes a lot of sense now. Shermie and Dolores have gigantic 2Bs. Iori's is kinda mid. Sylvie's isn't a strength of her defense, but still usable

Maybe it's not mid, but it's shorter than I'm used to

[sinful herald]

I’d say Iori is up there too. Many times I’ve taken off and Iori just starts kicking dirt…and the number of times it’s worked makes it understandable lol

Same thing with Kyo

“Come on!! Just run into it and I win”

[slate mica]

Oh god. Yeah, Kyo's lows in general are just kinda blessed

[sinful herald]

True. Go in the lab with him or Iori and see how far away you can be and still have 2B > 2A connect

The visual and reality of the hitboxes do not match haha

Rock is another one, like how are you hitting me with your 9th 2A bro?

Zero pushback

[slate mica]

Hmmmm... well that's fortunate for Sherm too who can, like, 2A xx 5A xx 2A xx 5A and still add a special afterward

Okay this helps quite a bit

[split grotto]

Liz has a fast run speed?

[sinful herald]

One of the fastest in the game

[split grotto]

I never knew, damn

[sinful herald]

That’s why she does the Naruto run

[split grotto]

I see, makes sense

I miss playing her since I'm trying Sylvie

But Sylvie does like 50% for discount and Liz dose not

[sinful herald]

There’s too many cool characters in the game for sure

I mained Liz for half a year, still feels weird to realize that

Sylvie does 50% off less than a bar? Damnnnn

[split grotto]

Something like that, her DP I swear builds a lot of meter

[sinful herald]

Liz builds crazy meter too, I didn’t know it until I ran her at point (towards the end of her starting run). Not trying to convince you of anything just thinking out loud

Sylvie definitely has good stuff tho don’t get me wrong

Hella good character

[split grotto]

I mean I love Liz, her combos work for me pretty well and I like her tool kit

But I'm trying to see if Sylvie is for me because I like her too

[sinful herald]

Makes sense to me

And I’ll say this; you’re one of better users of her parry for real

I never even went for it that often but it’s good af if you get a read or want to roll the dice on a callout

It’s one of those moves that was easy for me to forget was there, because her pressure is so easy and trappy

[slate mica]

Technically a bar and a half, but there's a refund (unless my routes are wrong; pls correct if so)

https://youtu.be/rO2MSzBovvw

[split grotto]

It's just a "They're gonna hit something here" I'm good at picking up patterns but I just can't do it under block pressure

[split grotto]

What combos where you doing to build that much meter?

[sinful herald]

Yeah it’s not really good for pressure unless you realllly know the frame data. EX is 2 frames btw

[sinful herald]

Just her basic pressure

2B > 2A > 5B > whatever

Jump CD > run > close A > close C

Hop B

That type of stuff

[split grotto]

I see, guess I've been doing it wrong. Like my pressure tends to be 2B 2A 6A A ball

[grim crypt]

That works as well just depends on the kind of opponent you're fighting against

[split grotto]

A common issue with it is like Oliver just used Athena 2C after the 6A. So I learned that it gets low profiled REALLY easily

So I'm trying to stop doing it

[grim crypt]

all beacsue athena can doesn't mean others can

or if they know about it

If they low profile your 6A just keep it in the back of your mind for the time being

[split grotto]

Isn't there a lot of characters that has their 2C low profile?

Not 6A but the 236A

[grim crypt]

try it again later on in the set to see if they remember

same thing still applies

[grim crypt]

Some 2Cs are anti airs

[split grotto]

Yeah about most of the characters I play have it, but I just assume a bunch of characters instead have that type of 2Cs. Or like half the cast at least

I won't completely not do it but I need something else

[grim crypt]

you have 214A for saftey 214C for plus frames(snk please fix the push back on it) and 214AC for a quick overhead

Or after 2A just run pressure again you're plus still

[slate mica]

So that means qcb.A is the true blockstring and qcb.C is the frametrap?

[grim crypt]

Yeah

214C is plus on block but the pushback is to much for elisabeth to do anything with

even in the corner you can't get much off of it

[sinful herald]

That’s a frame trap knowledge check, if they know it you gotta move on

End pressure with 214A using orbs is asking for a blowup

214C is only useful for the HKD off a combo

[grim crypt]

I really wish it didn't have that push back on block

Like why make it plus in the first place if they were gonna do that lmao

[sinful herald]

I’d have to check but there could be some frame trap setups there

6A is only -2 on block so she gets some weird shit there already

[lament mirage]

@magic harness think you can elaborate more on how I was playing?

You said it was my best yet

[magic harness]

You did very well
Your neutral was good, you poked a lot with Beni, whiff punished things I did, and your AAs were almost on point
You got caught by many crossups tho, and Shermie setups
Which I can't judge you for, these are tricky af

King was also GREAT
You didn't just spam Venom Strike, you played with your brain, punished stuff with the slide, did big combos and good air venoms

Also, for all your chars, you only woke up DP like 2 or 3 times in 3 sets. You blocked well on wake up, and also varied your approach well, not only jump ins or hops

Then again, I think SF6 did good to your fundies

I think you lost not because you didn't play well or made silly mistakes, but mainly because I caught you a lot with Shermie tricky crossups,O. Sherm orb setups and Billy BS

[runic rain]

I do too as well to an extent! KOF you have more freedom and leverage like a anime fighter, jumping and not really be fearful even if you get AA's those AA'S don't do anything. SF you can die if you don't place jumps and strings right 🤷 SF is a unforgiving game that polishes tighter play so when you play games like KOF or a anime that jumping and pressing is something you always do without a real issue it makes ya grow

SF and SS really makes you understand fundamentals and footsies

https://tenor.com/view/juri-juri-han-street-fighter-sfv-foot-gif-17848033

No pun intended

[lament mirage]

Big combos I was doing with King before, but idk if I ever got to land on you

[plush delta]

Yo Cien, I watched the set, you did awesome dude. King and Beni both did well. Shermie didn’t do as much unfortunately. Luna is just hard to fight against. One thing I think you can improve on is that you have this very bad habit of backdashing with king and Beni after a hkd basically giving up neutral. You should maintain pressure or even just go up just outside of throw range and sit and block and see what they do if they like pressing them punish

There’s a bunch of things you can do after a hkd (best are safe jumps and meaties/frametraps which luna loves) that will give you tons of advantage

[lament mirage]

For just coming back, I think I'm OK with backdashing over what I used to do

I'll try to learn set ups again, but it might take a sec

[plush delta]

Btw if you have 3 bars with king, you can zone them and force them to jump over the fireballs and king can jump and do the climax. I didn’t know it can go full screen and hit a jumping opponent. A champion did this against me the other day

Also a rank 30 did a reverse OCV against me with their anchor king utilizing slide into QM for a full combo

[lament mirage]

Noted

[plush delta]

That same champion was doing was sort of looping crossups /frametrap against me too that I couldn’t figure out

[lament mirage]

With King? If so might sharing it?

Like a replay or smth

[plush delta]

I’ll try to find it. I kinda wanna wipe the memory from my brain lol

It was like 3-4 days ago in a room so it might not be in replays anymore since I did a ton of matches grinding ranked the last 3 days

[plush delta]

Yes with king. He also used a point Vanessa where he would just use the teleport and cross you up and reset. It worked in the first match then I figured it out and zoned him out with Athena after but then his mid king destroyed and OCVed me

[lament mirage]

Cool

[lament mirage]

Be sure to ping me if you ever find it

[plush delta]

https://twitter.com/chris_f_22/status/1666448724594139136?s=21

Chris_F (@Chris_F_22)

New #KOFXV guide is up!
This video is about fireball characters and how to fight them. Definitely check this out if you have a hard time against fireballs in kofxv!
🔽 https://t.co/LoUjzxtYlW🔽

Twitter · Jun 7, 2023, 2:15 PM

@meager portal @split grotto

[meager portal]

Woah, anti-zoner tech?

[plush delta]

Now you shouldn’t have any trouble against me or rait’s king

[torpid quarry]

FINALLY

[snow beacon]

I also pinned this certain insert from #rules in #1077326581225246720 :

NO excessive self-downplaying: While humility is appreciated, self-downplaying of skill can discourage others and undermine other people's progress. Please refrain from excessively underestimating your own abilities or devaluing your progress and achievements. Instead, let's celebrate everyone's skills and encourage each other to improve, creating a welcoming and motivating environment for all members. This game can be frustrating, and if you don't feel like you're doing the best you could, take the break you need.

[slate mica]

Hmm
I wonder if this is directed toward anyone in particular
Aw well

To that end, can anyone offer any tips on my Sylvie? Rn I'm still getting my wires crossed on certain confirms, but I definitely think I'm starting to get the hang of a more rushdown-oriented playstyle

https://youtu.be/J41HWFCKj9E

[snow beacon]

Haha, well you're not the only one. I include myself as one who needs a friendly self-reminder to take it easy on myself. I can easily get in my own head.

[slate mica]

That's fair

[snow beacon]

Instead of being hard on yourself, acknowledge and give kudos to the skill of your opponent who has beaten you. That will be healthier for everyone - @plush delta

[slate mica]

For sure, for sure

[rancid marlin]

good shit against this hyper opponent

[rancid marlin]

She has short limbs, but if you can catch some 2A/5A's you'll be able to keep up your pressure. I saw you going for 2B 2B a lot with her, in that case just go for 236B if that's easy enough if you catch the hit. Hard knockdown easy to confirm, can EX if you want. Can go for like 2B 5B 6B for more routes tho. I believe she can do 2B 2B 5A. You default to j.CD a lot for air to air, but in the event that this is a bit too slow, can use her j.A it's pretty good. Maybe j.D too sometimes.

I wrote this kinda out of order. Was just thinking as I went

[slate mica]

I feel, I feel. No worries, and I appreciate the input! I always forget about the 236B, but that's a nice tool to get an oki situation/ setup. Starting to work some crossups with 2B to hop.C and mixups with 2B 2A hop.D as well.

[rancid marlin]

Yeah you played pretty well here with her, gave this guy a hard time. Can use the cl.C for when they're kinda close with the jump ins in corner, or hop ins. Might have to practice it it's been a while for me, but I remember that it hits very high like a Kyo/Iori type cl.C

[slate mica]

Yeah, it's similar to the 6A in terms of hitbox. Good call

[rancid marlin]

Yep. Funny thing is, the 6A I've tried to intentionally use it as an anti air, and got a few juggles off of it. Timing is a bit weird though

[slate mica]

Huh. Interesting. Yeah, like CH juggles?

[rancid marlin]

Something like that. They jump in, I hit the 6A, and then you can do like her 214 A/C and do whichever combo works at the time.

[slate mica]

Beautiful. Well-noted, I'll write this down

[rancid marlin]

Yeah it's for the saucy calculated jump in read moments

Can get some decent damage too

[slate mica]

Yeah, it doesn't look like a second 6A is possible after a qcb.AC, but with the right timing it could be some funky damage. Here's 244 off of just a 6A xx qcb.AC xx dp.D l

https://youtu.be/J0q8VIEHun8

[rancid marlin]

oh you can do a second 214 after the EX one

I believe 214C

Or maybe even her 214 AC, 236 AC, 214 C combo

[slate mica]

Interesting! Yeah, you can combo into both the 214C and the 236AC separately. I'm still working on the timing for the 214C into the 236AC though because the ground wave doesn't bounce the opponent back to you, unfortunately

A-ha! You can also get this though from connecting from 214AC to 214A to 623B

https://youtu.be/y2WriPsyM7A

275 for half a bar off an anti-air

[rancid marlin]

this is pretty much it

if you catch the 6A a bit lower, you can end it with 236B if you want, and get more hits of the heavy DP

But regardless if you omit the 214 AC, your enders are 236 B/BC, 214B/BD, or DP

[rancid marlin]

As for the timing of this combo, I do the specials kinda back to back. The longer you wait the less likely its to hit. So pretty much after the 214AC go right into 236AC, then right into 214C.

Once she zaps them with the 236AC the stun is pretty significant though since they bounce up after the ground projectile catches them

Cause you can actually walk forward a bit after and still catch the 214 C

[slate mica]

Hmmm I see. I'm not able to get the ground projectile to catch them off the juggle.

I am able to get the first hit -- the thunder bolt

But the ground projectile misses unless I'm in a corner

[slate mica]

Sidenote, the 214A can actually also combo into a dp.D for 310

https://youtu.be/-OFRu0bAy2c

[rancid marlin]

I meant the combo after 6A midscreen. Maybe I misunderstood which one you were talking about

[slate mica]

Yeah, not sure if my timing's off, but I feel like this ground wave should connect, right?

https://youtu.be/0BLDJb81lc8

[rancid marlin]

Have the delay the 6A

So more of a late reaction to the jump in

[slate mica]

Ahhhhhh, okay, okay

[rancid marlin]

@slate mica https://youtu.be/TJT9cv46yQ4

idk how it came to punish, but I guess he was just that low

[slate mica]

I'll keep an eye on this, for sure. Not quite getting it today, but something I can build to

[rancid marlin]

yeah it's not super pressing to have down anyways but just some extra cool stuff she can do

[slate mica]

Fir sure!

[grizzled heart]

She juggle on my 6A til I get good damage

[split grotto]

Hey I wanted some advice on picking a new point character or bettering my current one

[split grotto]

I think my Shingo and Joe (second and anchor) are at least. Solid and I play them comfortably with and without meter. But Liz is an odd one where yeah I can do stuff without meter but it really doesn't feel like much. Neutral and combos

So what exactly makes Liz a good point? I know she's a solid all rounder and such. But what does she do well on the point position. Any advice would be super appreciated

[lament mirage]

Simple tools and gamplan that doesn't require a whole lot of meter

It's exactly that

Comparatively to the others, she can save that meter to let the others go off

[warped pine]

You can do DP and EX DP with Liz and do a lot of damage with just half of a bar, ||you can't do it with Krohnen anymore tho #JusticeforKrohnen||

[magic harness]

I'm not exactly a Liz expert, but imo, a good point character does at least one of those:

• Is a battery, which means, they save up a lot of meter for the mid or anchor. If your mid character is getting into battle with at least 2 or 3 bars every match, I'd say your point did a good job being a battery.

• Good damage without spending meter. If your point character has good meterless combos or with 0.5 bars, and they cause like 40% damage with that, they are a good point.

• Vortex. Grapplers usually are good points because they usually can do A LOT of damage without spending meter. Their oki, meaties and pressure should be good enough to be able to kill without spending much.

• Zoning. Most of the zoners don't really use much meter, using their zoning tools to kill their opponents without spending much bar.

So yeah, Angel is my main because she does 2 of those. She does BIG damage meterless and every time my mid gets into battle, she has like 3 or 4 bars. So yeah, strong point there.
O. Shermie does the zoning part, even tho I tend to spend a lot with her on my combos
Reg Shermie is also GREAT on point because of her vortex and BIG damage 0.5 bar combos
Goenitz is also proving himself to be a good point for me for the zoning and good half bar combos

Clark is an amazing example of zoner because his vortex.
King is also GREAT for her zoning and good 0.5 bar combos

Iori and Leona aren't usually played in point because they also can be big spenders and play good anchors. But those two can be point too, because both have good oki, mix ups and big damage half bar combos

I'd also tell you to think about strategy.
Then again, Leona and Iori are GREAT anchors, because of their damage potential. But they don't exactly save up bar for my mid and anchor. So if your game strategy requires your anchor to have at least like 4 bars, or if your mid requires 2 or 3...
They probably aren't the best points for your team.

O. Shermie is a good point, and I usually play her point when I have Billy on my team
But that is because Billy doesn't require too much bar. If I have a mid char like Yamazaki, who is a big spender...
O. Shermie point won't help him at all. And he also won't help my anchor.

[lament mirage]

Clark.... a zoner

Yes

[magic harness]

You have to think about the team as a whole
Shingo is your mid, right?
Does he need a lot of bar? Does he save up enough for your anchor Joe? Does he cause BIG damage with 1 or 1.5 bar combos? Is it worth spending like 3 or 4 bars with him?
And what about Joe? Is your strategy with him spending a lot like 4 bars on an 80% combo? Does he actually need 4 or 5 bars for your strategy to be complete? If he gets there with like only 2 bars, can he live?

So thinking about all that
What kind of point do you need?
Do you need someone that might not cause a lot of damage but will get your Shingo with 4 bars?
Or do you need someone that will kill your opponent's point and like half of their mid before dying and leaving Shingo with just enough for him to do his stuff?

[magic harness]

LMFAOOOOOO

I might not even fix that

Just because of how funny that sounds

[meager portal]

Joe can work anywhere from my knowledge

[magic harness]

Yes
Just like Iori and Leona imo

[split grotto]

For me, literally Joe can succeed with only 2 bars as far as my anchor Joe

Because he builds so much bar. But his climax is actually really good at closing rounds with chip damage or catching a jump

Plus he can spend his meter for zoning really well

[meager portal]

Point Joe: A menace
Mid Joe: A menace
Anchor Joe: A menace

[split grotto]

I tried point Joe wasn't a super huge fan of him

[magic harness]

Can Shingo?
If yes, then you probably need a Point that can just cause good damage or good vortex/zoning without worrying too much about how much bar they actually save up

[meager portal]

Joe's combos are cool because they have a basic structure and the more meter you have when you get the confirm, the more damage you can make that combo do

The only reason I can think of to play Joe at anchor is if you're going for the TOD

I usually only play Joe at Point but that's just me

[split grotto]

So if I'm not spamming EX Shingo kick like a lunatic. I feel best with like 2.5 meter. Shingo's cash out damage is pretty solid I'm gonna guess

Advanced cancel combos would take like 3.5 meter which actually never happens when I play

In between my Liz always cashing out and Shingo's non crit light confirm taking like a full meter

[split grotto]

I like him best on anchor because I for some reason rarely drop the corner combo and it's easier to bring them to the corner with meter. But that's my limited experience

[grim crypt]

Ok so I know you aren't doing this on intention but @split grotto don't put characters in positions because they do big damage

Because everyone in this game gets damage with more bar with except Kula I assume since her damage is the lowest

Let's take my team for example

Heidern/Kim/Iori

[meager portal]

I'm guilty of this too actually😅
Terry damage is why he's my anchor and always will be

[grim crypt]

I think it's fine for terry to be there but I do think he can kind of go anywhere

[meager portal]

He can

[split grotto]

BUSTER WOLF

[grim crypt]

It's just the tools he gets as an anchor or mid are pretty good

[meager portal]

Point terry is pretty solid, but anchor is a menace

[warped pine]

Any character can go anywhere depending on how you use them

That's what keeps me hooked on this game

[split grotto]

I definitely don't do for damage or at least try no to. I try to think what they get from their metered tools. So like I drop Liz on point because only her EX parry and EX fireball are the only things I do without a confirm. And they're both pretty situational. But like Shingo has EX Shingo kick which can set up a frame trap and the command grab, and ex DP. Then Joe is just DP and fireballs

Like for how I use those tools Liz loses the least

But damage is the second factor.

[grim crypt]

I think it also has be the fact the main team you have are all characters on the weaker side so it's just harder on you in general lmao

[split grotto]

Man this shit really always happens to me. It sucks that I like Sylvie but not enough to throw her on my main team

[grim crypt]

Shingo is shingo
Joe has decent zoning and stun combos
and Elisabeth (while being hot) is just a solid character without anything to special

Like you can still do things with this team

It's just a uphill battle most of the time

[split grotto]

Not Shingo being Shingo

[grim crypt]

Everyone else here likes shingo

I'm the odd ball lmao

[split grotto]

My closet thing to a "better" team is probably like Goe, Sylvie Yamazki. I was thinking of trying it when I get bored and want to mess around

Just thinking about the characters I like that I don't play that I learned combos for

[grizzled heart]

Kyo is a great point

Trying to think of who else gains meter fast, Shingo does too

[grim crypt]

Usually characters who end their combos with dp or can will end up with a lot of meter

Unless your Rock then they nerfed the meter gain on his

It's the reason why Iori and Krohnen always have so much meter 😂

[warped pine]

Clark always build obscene amounts of meter when I use him

[magic harness]

I don't
Lmao
He's cool and cute
But I haven't even bought him

[grim crypt]

Ok so MOST people here like him 😂

[split grotto]

I swear only 3 people here play him. It's like me, Daru and Rise

[magic harness]

Shingo is the Kyo fanboy
Where is the Iori fanboy?
That one I'd buy

[split grotto]

Iroi has no fans and hopefully it stays that way

I guess I wish Liz made more meter for similar damage. Which is stupid but eh. Like I'd be real happy if I got a hard knockdown without using an EX. Since technically Joe can get it from any button and same with Shingo but it's just hard to do

[grizzled heart]

Iori has all the fans, he’s on the cover of KOF Girls remember what Sylvie said

[grim crypt]

I think Elisabeth's meter gain is fine as it is

I think she needs more quality of life stuff

Which can be said for a lot of characters I like/use lol

[sinful herald]

Easy pressure, awesome cross up and is optimal spending no more than a bar. She’s also a good point character because in the later rounds when the opponent has access to meter, she can easily get overwhelmed since she has no invincible meterless reversal

The one thing I noticed that you do with her (maybe you stopped, if so disregard) , is use her fireball in pressure strings. This is a terrible idea because of the humongous gap and the fact that it’s not a real projectile. It’s pretty much only useful for plus frames on oki. After you’ve used it once this way you can be almost certain your opponent will DP through the next one which is when you lolz block

She’s also a really good character to learn stagger pressure with

[lament mirage]

Ok I was abt to say

That Grammer was fucking my brain up

[split grotto]

I'm absolutely not good at that. I was and still am used to ending my pressure with a special

Since I tend to just get jabbed out of my next option

[sinful herald]

Ending with a special isn’t always bad, but it’s usually the end of your turn unless you’re setting up a spacing trap

[sinful herald]

This is fairly straightforward to set up in the lab. Have the dummy mash reversal 5A and 2A and practice your timing

Hella worth it for all levels

[split grotto]

I don't want this to be taken as venting. It's me asking for advice on how to lose better. So not including the set again Eli, I've been OCVd 3 times in ranked and definitely think I just can never figure out what I did wrong

I only won one game in ranked so far and I just feel I "play badly" but I can never figure out what I did wrong

So I'm just kinda stuck

Like looking at the the replays all I can say is I dropped X and Y

I'm recording it so I'll have it uploaded but I'm gonna ask that you ignore the bad dropped combos and some stuff that looks like a clear mis input.

[plush delta]

Good attitude

[split grotto]

Watching it back. It's just some really bad gameplay

I'll still upload it but I feel like it makes me look like I just picked up the controller

[magic harness]

I know how it feels
I've been there in SFV
After I got to Gold, I just didn't know what else I could improve
Hell, I got to a similar situation today
I watched some SF6 replays, and the Master Marisa I was watching played EXACTLY the same as me
I had to watch the same replay like 3 times for me to understand how was that person a pro in Master Rank while I'm stuck in Plat

What I usually do when I get to that point is try to deeply examine everything about the match. Maybe watch it in 0.5 speed.
Every single interaction.
Did you lose some because you couldn't react?
Or was it a 50/50 that you guessed wrong?
Did you try to dash or jump and got stopped or counted?

After you really analyze every little interaction, you might start to see some small improvements that make the big difference.

If you feel like those small things are too small and aren't making that much a difference, then you might want to focus on deepening your understanding about your character and more advanced techniques that might be lacking

For SFV, a HUGE one that made total difference was late throw tech
A single defensive technique that literally made my whole game different.
For Kof, you might need to actually lab and practice stuff like Reset Mix Ups, Frame Traps, QM combos, Safe Jumps...
The stuff that is REALLY hard to actually counter

I played Zero today
And man, that Iori is CRACKED
The safe jumps, the empty jump lows, the cmd grab setups...
The combination of all those stuff together with the fear of being hit by a jump in and have AT LEAST 70% of my bar deleted...
All those things together made his offense be one of the strongest in this whole server imo

Ok, Iori might be a super strong high tier character. But I faced SUPER strong Shingos that made me just as scared
The Shingo Kicku threat, and the DP reactions

So yeah, please post your gameplays!
People here will try our best to point out stuff that you did wrong or could've done better
But I think you're getting to a point where you either need to make a bunch of small adjustments to improve
Or you need to really get in and study and understand how to do those sick ass advanced stuff that'll make your opponents shiver like I do every time I see Zero's Heidern...
Lmao

[split grotto]

That's the problem I have, I'm actually just really bad at learning. Because I can never figure out where I went wrong. I'd love to just say I lost the coil flip every time but that absolutely doesn't seem right. I do have grandma reactions and that's just how it is. I still barely can react to hops

Like my mental capacity is focused on not that. And I cannot do it passively. It's just like too fast. So I either pick between trying get over to be opponent and do pressure or not move and try to figure out what to do next.

I don't think it's possible for me to just like do stuff without thinking about it first. Since it seems like nonsense

[magic harness]

And that is COMPLETELY normal
If I stop constantly thinking about it, I'll SPAM roll like I'm fucking Sonic
LMFAO

But those things start making sense and being muscle memory after some time
Just like combos for example
Angel combos were HELL for me the first times and I dropped them hundreds of times
But after playing her for months, I started doing them with my eyes closed

[split grotto]

Combos to me a super different. Just because it's a "tangible" thing that can be improved on. Like doing a combo 10 times in a row. Same thing with anything input related

[magic harness]

Might not seem like it, but reactions are exactly the same
On the betas, I've been DI'ed DOZENS of times before I started fishing for it
And then started doing on reaction
And nowadays I always counter them with my own DI unless I really can't

[magic harness]

I agree
But you can lab most stuff just like combos
Might take a while, but it's exactly the same

Set the Training Dummy to do something, and try to react to it.
Do it every day for like 30min
In one week, you'll be doing just fine

[split grotto]

But like neutral, countering opponents neutral, and trying to get a confirm is just a lot and there's no real way to lab putting all that together.

Or at least I suck at labbing things that aren't combos, meatys, block strings and like hop input

[magic harness]

Lab confirms with the Random Guard setting
Lab meaties and safe jumps and pressure options

The actual footsies you'll get mid match, experimenting stuff
That's where you'd probably get a lot of practice by facing people like Eljay and Mac
Those two have EXCELLENT footsies and neutral

[split grotto]

It's gonna sound weird, I react to a hop when I'm not trying to play the game on my side. But I don't know how to set up the lab for me to try to get towards them doing my game plan and then having the bot do their hops or whatever else I have to react to

[magic harness]

I, on the other hand
Tend to try to skip neutral and footsies to the good part
Lmfao

[split grotto]

https://youtu.be/WeAzwjpphN0

IT'S ONLY KOF THAT COMES OUT SATURATED

Whatever

Footsies in KOF give me a legit migraine like I gotta be seeing 20 pages into the future of what's gonna happen

[magic harness]

I feel it
Maybe I'm not the best to give advice for that, but for example
When I'm playing Shermie
And I need to do footsies

I tend to just have like 2 or 3 things in mind. Always.
If I have bar, I'm walking back and foward trying to hit a far C that I'll do my best to confirm into a QM into big damage
If I don't have bar, I'll be fishing for a 2D, that I'll cancel into 214D for mix ups and the vortex I'll try to use
While fishing for that one button and stuff, I'm watching my opponent closely, cuz they're probably fishing for something too, waiting on me to do something
Most people tend to either jump or hop or dash up and do something
So yeah, my brain is basically focused solely on trying to hit one move that will net me a good reward while being careful and having my 2C Anti Air always ready

If my opponent likes fireballs, I tend to try to fish for them so I can punish with a move that goes through them

Just focus on like 2 or 3 things MAX
Really watch your opponent and try to act accordingly

[split grotto]

I'll say with confidence, losing in KOF always leaves me confused. Because it's real easy to see my options just didn't work. Like I'm fighting Terry and I literally don't have a single idea how to fight him. He backwards rolls every time on wake-up, I didn't feel I could punish anything of his. And I tried to throw a fireball and get hit with a level 2. I jump but apparently I can't jump in to save my life so I get thrown, stuff like this happens to much

I truly have no idea what level I actually am at, but getting trounced makes me feel I still am super new to the game

[meager portal]

There are some cracked Terry's for sure but zoning works pretty well against terry. Level 2 buster wolf is our only real tool against it, maybe ex fireball too

[split grotto]

One of these days I'll be able to lose and figure out why without having to ask a KOF channel every time.

[split grotto]

Are Terry's crack shoot and the moving fist (forget the name) all plus on block?

[meager portal]

If spaced far enough away yes, if they're close though, they are very punishable

Light knuckle and crackshoot are harder to punish on block, unless they're like point blank

[grim crypt]

Ex crack shoot is -5 so you can punish with lights heavy and light are safe on block most of the time
If you block any burn knuckle up close you can use a heavy to punish it on block
if it's a spaced light burn knuckle it should be -1/+1 (throw punish when it's minus)
If it's a spaced heavy or ex it's going to be plus no matter what so you just continue to block

It just seems like you got knowledge checked by terry and still don't know how to deal with people who just auto pilot with back roll

[sinful herald]

Gotta be real here I disagree with this pretty hard. His strengths are his huge buttons and ability to fly across the screen, he doesn’t play up close that well

Trying to zone against his fireball, 5D, 5CD, jump CD, crack shoot seems like the hard way

[plush delta]

It’s because @meager portal got traumatized by @warped pine ‘s king and my Athena hehe

[sinful herald]

Watch your replays slower. Have a pen and paper and right down your action vs your opponents action and compare it to the KOF triangle. Pause in between

Did you get hop punished on a sweep? Write it down

Jab checked on your hop?
DP’d on full jump? Same deal

Eventually you’ll have some data to work with. Also ranked is full of gimmicks and knowledge checks, same with tournaments

Prob a better use of your time to run a few FT5’s and then review. Rinse and repeat

I only say all this because I’ve recently learned how much faster it is to learn the game this way. I used to think hammering matches was the move and it does work, but it takes way way longer