KOF Coaching

[plush delta]

And tiago can correct if he sees anything wrong

[magic harness]

it will take a little while

yes

[wet briar]

Sure

[magic harness]

because I'm not sure I get everything right

or maybe I will forget some things you showed me

[plush delta]

Cause no one really writes these down. They just do videos without notations

[magic harness]

yup!

true

[plush delta]

Clark safe jump video! (And they don’t write down what it beats or the timing etc)

The option select is really important to know and they never mention it

[wet briar]

Jump always Will beat throw i think

But then is when you start go for the low options

When they start to jump

[plush delta]

If you do the correct manual timed full jump for your safe jump instead of hyper hop, it will catch the jump startup of the opponent

It will be a true safe jump that beats everything so opponent has to block

[magic harness]

... but if he blocks throw then... he gets thrown? Or did I misunderstand again

if it's a true cmd throw safejump that beats everything even jump/backdash then you can loop the safejump forever, no?

okay I'm writing "Clark Vortex | Chapter 1"

I'll post it when it's done

[plush delta]

No cause they can just block it. But the safe jump is you doing the combo

You’re not doing command grab

[magic harness]

aaah you were talking about doing the combo not the throw

okay

I misunderstood again

yes Tiago showed me this

[plush delta]

It should beat jump, rolls, throw attempts, light mash and it will block the dp

[magic harness]

when they start jumping

you do the setup into the low

[plush delta]

Yes so did he do a full jump for that?

And is it after elbow or after 214A?

[magic harness]

... I don't think so? He can confirm

aah elbow, people's elbow, okay

it was after 214A if I remember correctly

(he will have to correct everything but I'll write as I do the shit in training mode)

[plush delta]

After 214A, it’s an auto time safe jump, but opponent has to recover roll. If they don’t recovery roll, they can disrupt the safe jump timing

[magic harness]

(pausing in between the stuff I do to manually change the training settings)

yes it's 214A and they have to roll

[plush delta]

After elbow, since it’s a hard knockdown, it’s guaranteed, but it’s manually timed so harder

[magic harness]

okay got ya

you saw the cl.B thing in Tech?

I posted it

[plush delta]

What tiago did using hyper hop is not a true safe jump since opponent can escape it but it’s a good option select since it covers a lot of options. But opponent can jump and avoid it I believe

[magic harness]

after 214A into me recover rolling you mean?

[plush delta]

No after command grab into elbow. He posted the video above

[magic harness]

ah yeah okay

[plush delta]

He did armor grab after. You can jump to avoid the armor grab

[magic harness]

yes obviously

that's the one thing armored grab is weak to

[plush delta]

But a true safe jump will cover the opponent jumping

[magic harness]

yes, true

gotcha

[plush delta]

Most people will try to jump after elbow

[magic harness]

yes

that's where you come in and do a timed cl.B into cl.C

lol

or a low into 214P whatever you want to do

[plush delta]

Yes that’s mind games. But if you can do the true safe jump then no mind games needed

[magic harness]

right!

[plush delta]

@wet briar if I’m saying anything wrong, please correct me. But this was my understanding of Clark’s tech

[magic harness]

yeah I definitely can't correct shit

but on paper, seems what you're saying is legit. now if there's some other tech Tiago might know about, then he can come in

[grizzled heart]

Me, closet Clark and Robert main: you’re both wrong

[plush delta]

There’s another tech where after 214A you can do 426C and you can do Ex command grab immediately and it will catch them if they recovery roll

It beats anything they do, including blocking I think

But if they don’t recovery roll, then it doesn’t work

[magic harness]

the combo Chad does it again and makes KOF nerd virgins RAGE

[plush delta]

The thing is, most opponents don’t recovery roll after 214A cause they always seem to expect to the ex tackle

[magic harness]

damn that's cool

why is my discord so LOUD

[plush delta]

Try it

[magic harness]

I will

and put it in notes

[plush delta]

You can button hold the ex command grab so you will always get the timing

[magic harness]

yes, that's something I forget to do sometimes. In combos I button hold all the time, but to get a reversal I forget and still try to go for the precise timing double tapping my shit sometimes

[plush delta]

I try it every once in a while but the opponent never recovery rolls so it never works. Even cpu doesn’t recovery roll if you abuse it

But that one you can technically loop forever if you have the meter and opponent always recovery rolls

[magic harness]

lol if even CPU knows how to avoid it...

but yeah,

those kind of setups where you do some very... weird stuff, and the opponent has to react to the weird shit to tech for example

that kind of stuff usually doesn't work in fighting games, from experience

[plush delta]

So I don’t really find it useful

[magic harness]

Yes, I will put it in notes as a "niche" technique

or something like that

like it's tech

but it rarely works

[plush delta]

Do you know the anti crossup tech?

[magic harness]

so, aside from cl.B?

no

and a cl.B might get stuffed, naturally

if it's both a crossup and a meaty

[plush delta]

If your character doesn’t have a 214P move but has an invincible dp, you can input 4 and buffer 21P. This will make your character do a dp if the opponent does a crossup jump attack and it will allow you to block if the jump attack is same side

[magic harness]

oh yeaaah!

[plush delta]

So it covers ambiguous crossups like what o yashiro does after his super

[magic harness]

so you have to manually do it, no autocorrect

[magic harness]

okaaay

cool. thanks!

[plush delta]

Dark angel did it last nite against rino but rino did 4D chess and did crossup jump into block instead of crossup into combo and he punished the dp

[magic harness]

holy

gotta watch TNS when I go to bed

that's my thursday night classic

TNS

and opioids lol

while in bed

[plush delta]

Rino had the o yashiro OCV in the first game but dark Angel ran it back and took the set with the (broken) Iori anchor comeback

@grizzled heart

[grizzled heart]

vids 👀👀👀😳👀😳👀😳👀😳👀

I love an Iori anchor comeback

[plush delta]

Tns last night. Winners top 8

Other winners top 8, VK has the kyo dominating shadow x

I didn’t watch after that so I didn’t know who won

[grizzled heart]

I gotta see VK’s Kyo now post all the new tech

Prolly plays the same but he’s always a good time to watch play

[plush delta]

He was doing a lot of rekkas. He had kyo point

[grizzled heart]

Good position for him

Kyo builds insane meter

[plush delta]

Basically the rekkas were catching shadow x pressing

[grizzled heart]

yeah both rekkas have an insane range to them

You can AA w/ rekka it’s so sick

[plush delta]

Shadow x almost did a reverse OCV with his own anchor Iori but VK anchor Iori had too much meter

[wet briar]

@plush delta for save jump i showed him im One with hyperehop a

After grab

Its safe againt iori ex DP

[magic harness]

yes true he did

I didn't know if that was hyperhop or not but now I know

[wet briar]

https://twitter.com/Tiagocruz777/status/1654169331679232009?t=nC7GmEhY49dDF2OS1Eqv5A&s=19

Tiago Cruz (@Tiagocruz777)

#PS4share

https://t.co/UjBbeuE1JM

▶ Play video

Twitter · May 4, 2023, 5:01 PM

Are you taking about this cause Im not understanding what you mean?

Or you mean going for 1F comand grab

Instead of armor to beat the jump jump in

@plush delta

[plush delta]

Yeah this is the correct safe jump. Are you doing full jump here? The other video you showed, you were doing hyper hop cd into armor grab

[wet briar]

Normal jump?

No Im doing hyper Hop

[plush delta]

Hyper hop A?

Does that hit the opponent before they jump?

[wet briar]

That i did not do

With galtera

[plush delta]

So that video you posted, the opponent can just neutral jump to escape right?

[wet briar]

Must see that In training mode

[sinful herald]

Omg it feels so good to hammer on the guard bar, end in what would normally be an unsafe special > the rest of the combo

Yeap this is actually mandatory for doing Heiderns trials

[slate mica]

Weird. I actually got the Heidern trial, but can't remember if I used this input

[magic harness]

@plush delta today I will get home at 7PM my time, but I will try to finish my notes and send them before I get home, I took the file with me at work

It will pretty much be a Clark guide

[slate mica]

How do I stop rolling so much? Okay, I'm going to ask it straight up. I'm getting fucking roasted by commentary for rolling and laughed at. It's fucking humiliating and it's costing me matches

[sinful herald]

If we’re talking about rolling forward past your opponent then yes, you need to stop that asap as possible. It’s nearly 30 frames of sheer terror where you can’t do a damn thing. What are you trying to accomplish? Getting on the other side of your opponent or something else? Try replacing your desire to roll with a cross up attempt or a stand heavy poke. Or just block for a second

To be clear lots of people do the forward roll thing and it’s universally bad, so don’t feel like you’re on your own. I’m sorry you got laughed at, that’s shitty

[slate mica]

I'm coming from King of Fighters All Star where that's the only defensive option. Idk why it's stuck in my brain that it's the only thing I can do to evade attacks or if I'm just not used to the pace of the game

Because earlier today vs. Luna I rarely did that

I get in a tournament setting and it's all I'm doing

[sinful herald]

Tournament is weird for me too, it’s like my base instincts kick in and I have to fight the urge to mash my face on the controller

What’s helped a lot is repeated exposure

I’ve done multiple events now and been on stream several times so it’s slowly getting normalized. I caught your set with zero today. Really good stuff I can see you’ve leveled up since the first time I met you

Even tho he won there were a couple interactions where shit slid sideways and before you might’ve let it get in your head. This time you played hard all the way through

[slate mica]

I appreciate it. The mental shift has done me some good. It's difficult not to fall into old patterns rn because the commentary was legit triggering (I realized this weekend my mental headspace was affected by previous trauma as a teen, and have been working real hard to rewire thr neural pathways ever since), but fighting to stay positive.

[slate mica]

The first match was super weird because all my confirms weren't hitting at the end

The second match, I absolutely should have lv 2 confirmed

I did try to keep a hardy mentality, though I feel at times I was falling into autopilot

[sinful herald]

I’m sad to hear about your past trauma that sounds really tough. You’re strong for taking care of yourself now

[slate mica]

It's what it is. I'm just trying to move past it at this point, but feel it deserves a mention as it creates a bias effect

And I'm only just coming aware of how and why it affects my mental state

[sinful herald]

IIRC you got the bar right before you could have cancelled. This is something that can be fixed with some lab time. Figure out exactly how much meter you need to start a combo because lots of times we’ll build the last little piece right before we need it (and get let ‘er buck)

[slate mica]

Yep, for sure. And this could've been fixed by just pressing two buttons instead of one for an option select

[sinful herald]

For example I know how much meter I need for certain 1.5 routes and it’s actually less than that

[sinful herald]

This is true but we run the risk of bad muscle memory and firing off a level 2 when we don’t need or want it

Better to stay meter aware

[slate mica]

Indeed, yeah. Start with 3 bars out of a 4 bar max and see how much gets spent along the way

Like, be aware of how much you need for each part of the combo

[sinful herald]

How much you need to start

Aka if I have X and then get my hit confirm will it be enough?

I literally went in the lab and gave my character a bar and tried it. No? Ok a bar plus 1 jab. Still no? Bar plus 2 jabs

Etc etc

You’ll learn what it looks like

[slate mica]

That's fair. Yeah, need to really grind that into my memory

[sinful herald]

But that’s why you might have seen me do a combo with Liz and she literally gets the last bit right before super and then is flat broke lol

[slate mica]

Understandable! But a great aspect of combat to have, for sure

Can't take that extra meter with you

[sinful herald]

Sure can’t

Going back to sleep

Let’s play some tmw or this weekend

[slate mica]

I'm just wakin' up, hahah

[slate mica]

Let's, for sure

Take care, dawg. And thanks!

[sinful herald]

You got it and same to you 🤘

[pine prairie]

If you are doing it out of habit, maybe try disabling or enabling the roll macro. This way you can't roll subconsciously. If you force yourself to critically think about rolling before doing it and whether it's the right call rn, you might be able to come up with a different option and break the habit.

Also, those commentators were shitty, sorry to hear that it affected you.

[slate mica]

I appreciate the insight. I disabled the roll macro for now (can only roll with A+B). Part of it is an instinctive thread in my mind, I feel like. Maybe I just need more experience locking in the "hold the pressure" mindset.

[slate mica]

I'm glad to hear it wasn't just me who thought so

What really got me was calling the wakeup grab the "Angsty Special" and "I'm trying not to laugh, but..."

[pine prairie]

yeah, i saw those parts that too. unprofessional imo.

[slate mica]

Whatever

Sorry, I'm just like, SUPER not cool with that stuff

Prolly some shit like "grow a pair" or "get thicker skin" or something.

Then why have commentary during a ROOKIE tournament and say "I'm trying not to laugh"?

Whatever

[pine prairie]

I dunno how he's gonna respond, but you can be more open with your criticism. If the commentary makes you uncomfortable, they can work on that and maybe there are other people who feel the same way. Maybe they weren't aware that they were being so harsh. If they decide not to, then fuck em.

[magic harness]

Wall of text incoming guys, sorry

[slate mica]

Maybe there aren't people who feel the same way because I was the one playing like trash, idk

(Edit: can't get back into these thought patterns)

[slate mica]

all good

[magic harness]

Little Clark guide - General tips, basics of the vortex, and little trivia about his options and normals

(This is the v1.0 of the guide, and everyone can contribute to it or suggest corrections, except for the Clark haters)

Clark is a the quintessential grappler of KOF. His signature move is the Super Argentine Backbreaker, it's a command throw that has two versions : the D version (heavy kick) is a command throw that comes out in 1 frame. After you do the command (41236+D or HK), you will almost instantly throw your opponent. The B (light kick) version comes out in 15 frames, but has super armor during its whole startup. If an opponent hits you during the startup frames of light SAB, he will most likely get thrown for it and get punished.

The EX version of SAB comes out in 1 frame and has no armor, but you can throw from a further distance and still connect, and it leads into a full combo into his vortex as well.

Clark also has fantastic normals and space control. The area where he is lacking is his damage output is low, but if he had Shermie's damage, he would be overpowered... anyway.

Most people play Clark as a point character, not like a battery but as a "control" point. And this is the recommended placement for him in your team. There are pros who are counter-examples, however: Madkof, who was the first player to ever win EVO in KOF history back in 2012 (KOFXIII) is one of the best Clark mains in the world, and he plays him as his anchor. I think that his reasoning for this is because he considers that Clark has not many bad matchups (which is very rare for a grappler in fighting games) and that a very solid Clark player can be a comeback machine with meter. I stopped counting the amount of reverse-OCV's and huge comebacks he made with Clark as an anchor, so he might be right! Place him wherever you feel most comfortable, but remember that the preferred position for Clark is point.

Clark's gameplan is based around a "vortex" (which means that he has mixups when he gets okizeme than can lead into a knockdown, which can itself lead into another knockdown, starting a loop of mixups. If your opponent cannot guess right on your setups, they can die from one knockdown. This is the power of a good vortex)

This guide is specifically made for those who would like to learn the fundamentals and basics surrounding the setups of Clark's vortex. We will also cover some trivia at the end regarding his options and normals. It is important to apply the setups so your vortex can be potent so that you can be so scary that people will get mad at you for playing the best grappler ever designed in a fighting game.

There are several moves that can lead to a vortex attempt : every move that finishes with a people's elbow. Such as the followup after SAB, or the C follow up into the after a tackle (both of these are the same and lead to the same setups) as well as a 214P move that will lead to a soft knockdown.

CHAPTER 2 : What can you do after an elbow to keep the vortex going?

This is what you will primarily do as a setup, since the opponent will ALWAYS be in a hard knockdown after this. The most important thing is to protect yourself from an invincible reversal attempt from your opponent, there is one thing that you can setup that will help you to beat this consistently : safe jumps. For example, to do a safejump after Clark's elbow follow-up, you can :

1. Do a full normal jump into a j.A immediately after the elbow has connected

2. Do a hyper jump into a j.A immediately after the elbow has connected

You could also run until you reach the opponent, but this of course isn't a "safe jump"

This way, any attempt of an invincible reversal (such as DPs) will be in your guard. Now's the time for one of the biggest aspect of all fighting games : mind games and reads.

If you know what your opponent will do on his wakeup, you can ALWAYS beat what he will do. And it's the same for him. No option beats everything, but you have several tools in your arsenal to beat every option your opponent has to escape the vortex

You are already covering an invincible reversal attempt.

If your opponent wants to press any normal move on wakeup : armor grab or do a well-timed meaty.

If your opponent wants to jump to beat the armor grab : do a low meaty that will get him in the jumpsquat (jump startup) frames and confirm into a combo, or be ready to do a j.D anti air into an EX tackle.

If your opponent does nothing and blocks : instant command throw! you could also dp+K (invincible throw reversal), or do a frame-trap mixup such as a cl.B into either a cl.C (frame trap) or cl.B a tick-throw with a D instant command throw.

Those are the basics of the Clark mixup options. Some characters have moves that are throw-invincible, so those matchups become more tricky. But this is how to apply a basic safejump into vortex setup. Remember those are the fundamentals. You can try to lab more.

Now, for a 214P (soft) knockdown :

A well-times instant hyper-hop into a 2B will beat any jump attempt from your opponent IF he roll recovers as he touches the ground. It is also a safejump.

If he stays on the ground however (which will frequently happen as most people expect an EX tackle special move after a 214P, which itself leads into the elbow we covered above), then this setup will not work. BUT it is always possible to time your meaty perfectly to get the "jumpsquat" (jump startup) frames. There is a well-known way to do this : use frame-kills. Frame-kills means you can whiff normals as your opponent is on the ground and getting up to time something perfectly every time. What would be best, is to find a frame-kill that starts with a 2B, in the way that, if he does a roll recover and attempts to jump you will get him with the 2B, and if he decides to stay on the ground, you can go into the frame-kill and time a meaty. This is called an OS, when a single action covers several options from your opponent. However, in most cases, using frame kills mean that you are vulnerable to an invincible reversal. So be wise and prepared, or lab the shit out of Clark to get the most out of every knockdown and stay as safe as possible at the same time.

This is the basics we covered yesterday with @wet briar , if you read this guide and find it useful. Thank him for providing the knowledge

Chapter 3 | Trivia about Clark's normals and options:

j.D into EX tackle is his primary anti-air. j.D is also a fantastic air button to control the aerial space as its hitbox goes far horizontally but also covers some space above of Clark while he does it in the air.

With its downward angle, j.A is his primary jump-in button.

Clark has an air-throw that you can use.

far. B is a fantastic anti-hop normal, that can also control the mid-range safely and efficiently in neutral.

cl.B is a fantastic button up close as it can lead to frame traps, tick throws (including command throw) and is also an anti-air that can beat crossups if well-timed. However, you have to be very close for it to come out, and being an anti-air normal, it can get stuffed by well-timed crossups and mixups. So be wise in its use.

far A is the anti-hop normal and light poke

Clark has nothing to do in the full-screen range. However, you can build bar by whiffing throws or whiffing 623A. This will irritate your opponent who won't want to let you build bars, and if he has no way to punish you from full-screen or any fireball, he can do your job for you : get closer to you, which is exactly where you want to be with Clark.

far C is his furthest reaching normal, however, it won't hit crouchers

His sweep is one of the furthest reaching in the game, use it plenty but don't get too trigger-happy and predictable with it as any well-timed hop can lead to a disaster for you.

2C is a very good ground-space control tool as it reaches far and has a lot of pushback

His j.CD goes at a ~45° angle, meaning that it can be used both offensively (to get in) and defensively (to take out a jump option from your opponent)

far D is a good aerial space control tool.

His fastest buttons are all his A buttons at 4f startup each (far A, close A, crouch A), his close A has the most frame advantage at +5/+3, followed by far A which is +4/+2, and finally crouch a, +3/+1 (hit advantage/block advantage)

@plush delta @wet briar v1.0 of the Clark guide. You can read it and contribute to it. Correct it of course (I won't edit for real nitpicks though)

Tiago, you can also tell me if I have forgotten anything about what we've seen yesterday

This focuses mostly on the vortex, but not only

[plush delta]

Who’s doing the commentary?

[slate mica]

The speed of the close.A button is good to know since it can be linked to close.C

[slate mica]

Shakugan

[magic harness]

Bro, I get that the commentary and the laughing must have been horrible
I also need to control my rolls

They work against some opponents, and actually carried me to Champ. But once I got there, people started punishing me HARD for that...
Daru specially was the first one to actually wait for them and punish me EVERY time

I personally think they are good and useful in some situations, and can be super powerful when used at the right times. My problem is that I ALWAYS go for it, making it predictable and punishable.

The way I see it, rolling has two main purposes.
First one is on corner, as it can take you out of it, sometimes even if you do get punished, at least you'll be out of corner. I tend to do it to escape hops or jumps, as people tend not to punish after I roll from jump ins. I don't even know if they can.

And the second one is the one I abuse too much. To get in and punish pokes. In neutral, after you poke someone, they tend to try to poke back, usually with a far button. So I poke, roll to escape the counter poke and punish it with full combo. Works WONDERS. But not with everyone...
If they do it like Daru and most of the higher level opponents, they will poke back with a light, instead of a far heavy. This lets them punish me HARD for that.
But it's hard to stop, now that I did it for years without being punished at all

[plush delta]

Oh I tried to watch his twitch once since he tries to advertise it a lot but yeah his commentary is kinda unlistenable

[slate mica]

https://www.twitch.tv/loyalpace/v/1811580774?sr=a&t=4899s

This is where it starts and I'm just kinda frustrated.

Idk if im just overreacting, but like I'm frustrated

The thing is, like, idk what I'm supposed to do. Buttons didn't work. I took multiple unbreaking pressure strings. Like, what the fuck else do you want? How can I go on offense if I'm forced to block and hold pressure? How can I be working my offense if I'm not making things happen on defense? What other options can I do? Because my anti-hop/ anti-air buttons weren't coming out

I get that I roll too much

I get that I wakeup cmd grab too much

The fuq they want me to do?

[plush delta]

Yeah shakugam was kinda dismissive in his comments, I get the frustration

[magic harness]

The way I like to see it, every pressure has gaps. Hops specially are the easiest to recognize, but not to actually react to it.
You just have to recognize the gaps on the pressure and try to stop them there
With Shermie I try DPing the hops, or just 2A to stop

[plush delta]

Was that winners finals?

[magic harness]

If you get a hard read and DP a hop, specially if you have bar and cause some DAMAGE

[slate mica]

Loser's semis

[slate mica]

I did hit one of those, but then couldn't do a damn thing outside of that

Probably need to learn a different character.

[plush delta]

You dropping Shermie?

[magic harness]

I'll read what you posted before, Lou. From what I understand, a commentator is a piece of shit apparently? Criticizing casuals playing like casuals in a casuals' tournament? Even commentators at EVO don't do this when a casual comes up, I remember a Swiss Devil Jin (totally unknown here, probably some guy who likes the game and was in Vegas at the same time I've heard stories like these before) playing in EVO2022 iirc playing against lmyourfather (arguably best Lee player in the world) and being absolutely horrible at the game, the guy probably just entered and wanted to have some fun at EVO and got on stream playing against a top Korean which is really cool lol. And the commentators said absolutely nothing to mock aside from maybe a little chuckle which is normal. I'll see what's the hold up and come with my own judgement later, if you allow me to

[magic harness]

No heidern's DP into super requires a "regular" hcb~f DP shortcut, not the input I mentioned which is f~hcf kinda. Smoke might have misread. The super input you want for Heidern is hcb x 2 (I usually use numpad notations but it's less confusing, letters are more clear)

[magic harness]

POS behavior

I'm far from being an angel myself, I did horrible shit in the past whether it's in gaming or my personal life. But when you want to be a commentator you have to be impartial unless it's a random who got on mic, and that's on the TO. If I were you I would've said publically that this is not right and unprofessional af and that an even remotely competent TO would never let this fly in his tournament on stream, which is true. That's one of the many subjects I've talked about with the TOs I know as I want to do my own events for the Swiss/EU KOF community

[magic harness]

Yes. You can be on par with the top of the top East-Asian level players, if you don't have tournament nerves? You'll get wrecked by someone who has developed the nerves. @slate mica your problem is most likely not rolling, your problem is that you have a hard time playing under pressure. You dropped shit you usually never dropped? If so, that's totally normal. You played like shit against someone who you would have destroyed in ranked or casuals? Same shit. Some people can get used to playing under pressure faster than others, but unless you've played offline your whole life against many people (that implies having an active arcade scene, which most likely means there are tournaments you can enter already).

You have to persevere despite this bad experience if you want to become a tournament player. I'll tell you right away : I have not developed the nerves for tournaments yet either. But this is how you do it. And playing in online tournament is so, so much easier than playing in person, especially if you're not a very outgoing, extravert person

[rancid marlin]

They need me and @lament mirage to commentate next one no 🧢

[magic harness]

with that voice of yours? honestly yeah, it's very characteristic. since the other day I could still recognize your voice between 100 other guys' voice instantly, most likely. Cien has a good voice too. would actually be cool

oh let me be clear : pointing out mistakes is normal, being harsh and mocking people isn't. That's what I meant. Pointing out mistakes is just "educational" commentary, it usually bores people so a good commentator wouldn't do it too much and go into depth and shit, people want hype.

[magic harness]

Yes, his commentary made you mental boom. It's "mental stack", it's the same shit when you do a mistake and get punished for it, or drop a combo, also known as tilt. That's why your first tournament is always garbage

[plush delta]

“Trying not to laugh” is disrespectful commentary. Might not look much to everyone else but it’s hurtful for the person targeted, which is Lou here. This is not acceptable especially in a rookie tourney

[magic harness]

100%. Had I been the TO he would've been banned from commentary until he would have sworn he changed and apologized publically. Next offense banned forever from ever commentating again, imo. This shit actually pisses me off.

I mean, even a little chuckle is tilting for sure, but if it's just one time I can tolerate it. Mocking the person? You're gone. Plain and simple

That kind of shit is part of the reason why FG players are fucking hobos in e-sports

no one wants to start playing fighting games seriously because it's too hard, the difficulty spike is right at the beginning when you start, and then some motherfucker comes in mocking new players in a rookie tourney? Banned.

Seriously, fuck that guy

[plush delta]

@slate mica you should bring it up and mention it in the RR server

[magic harness]

I think so too

make it public

if it goes sour for you, leave their server immediately and I'll personally say those guys are assholes and you shouldn't enter their shit every time someone mentions them

because that's all I can do

[plush delta]

Almost everyone in the server is helpful and pace is too

[magic harness]

Okay, I don't know them

[plush delta]

It’s just that one guy who’s a guest commentator

[magic harness]

Yeah, get him banned

don't DM him, nothing, make it public, chances are small, but chances are that shit goes to Twitter

[plush delta]

Haha not banned, maybe just make him aware of what he’s doing

[magic harness]

people usually hate this

[plush delta]

He might not be consciously aware that he’s doing it

[magic harness]

Me personnally I would have said prior to any guest taking the mic that if he pulls that kind of shit that's an immediate ban, this is a rookie tourney. but yes, that's my immediate reaction in the heat of the moment.

I've heard veteran TOs say a couple times that it's very hard to be the judge in certain cases. Be too lose, you're a bad TO. Be too authoritarian and you're a bad TO as well

So you have to be wise about it

and make it a warning, no second chance.

Apparently someone is considered a veteran TO not by the number of years but by the number of events. It's actually hard and an ungrateful thing to do in the community. Do ONE mistake and you're done. Do your job well 100% of the time, no one knows about you except for your regulars, and no one gives a shit either. You can't be a TO without passion. But I'll actually try to organize some stuff, online for now, maybe IRL in a few years

[magic harness]

yes it is! just like cl.B

I've actually watched the video and... I totally get that it triggered you, and at the same time I've seen SO much worse in the French scene

They made the mistake of letting intermediate players play, and top players commentate

honestly, barely intermediate

and it fueled one of the biggest dramas of the French FGC

that shit was taken to twitter, and since the French love WebTVs, the biggest WebTV in France made an apology tweet about it and the top players got banned from the webtv. Even some brits commented on it

the "trying not to laugh" part should be what triggers a really clear warning though

[magic harness]

example of what was said, things like "this guy is actually just so dumb", "bro what the fuck are they doing", "you fucking idiot! DP!!!", "these guys don't even know how to anti air and you guys want me to watch this shit?"

[magic harness]

I do have to say that I personally don't have much of that
I do feel more pressure when fighting on tournaments and more serious matches, but at the same time...
I like the spotlight
I wanna be recognized someday as the strongest
I want people to be scared when they see my name in tourney brackets and stuff
I want people to look at me and say "She's the new Daru"

I have big aspirations
Lmfao

[magic harness]

Agree completely

[magic harness]

Oh yeah, everyone wants that. The thing is, if you want that you have to be exposed to the spotlight regularly

Yeah if you read the shit I said I go wild on the sanctions I would have applied but didn't look at the VOD. I understand Lou got tilted for real, but I thought it would be so much worse, because I've heard so much worse before

[slate mica]

Yeah, I'm honestly just being a little snowflake about this

[magic harness]

No, not at all

Exactly
But Idk, I've never been to big tourneys and stuff
But like, our server tourney
I felt almost the same thing as in ranked match
The feeling of "I can't lose now"

I would still advise you to make it public @slate mica

And I'd agree

[wet briar]

You just wrote a cool quick guide of what we did nothing working about it

[slate mica]

Shakugan did just apologize for his commentary in the discord channel

[wet briar]

We could add the CD with 6BD

[magic harness]

Oh yeah? I didn't give a shit, some night I came in after not talking for a few days, saw Smoke in matchmaking and said "we have to play our match, wanna play rn?" got destroyed and left thinking "okay we done" lol but that's because I have no real aspirations as far as this tournament goes

[wet briar]

Whiiff cancel that covers more distance to grabe

If the openent is sleeping

[magic harness]

Ah thanks! Yeah I scratched everything I did yesterday and started again, wrote this in 40min while I had nothing to do

[magic harness]

OH
That match already happened?
Did you tell me and I forgot to update the brackets?

[magic harness]

No you updated it don't worry

you just don't remember

lol

Or did I update and forgot I did?

Ah

LMFAO

[wet briar]

CD into BD on block is neutral pressure maybe you can press a Button and do armor grab Clark wins

[magic harness]

That's already one thing. If it was very brief, you can say that it was very demoralizing for you or something like that... I'll let you judge on how you want to approach this. He doesn't matter, he isn't worth any of your time. Don't allow him to take away the enjoyment or even passion you have from KOF

Ok
Just checked
You are to fight Danzo next
I think you two are pretty close to each other in terms of skill
Even tho it's been a while since I last saw Danzo here
Curious to see that match

[wet briar]

Maybe you can add those and level 3 is also an anti air super doing in the correct area

[magic harness]

Yesssss
If you want, I can go there beat him

(I'm reading everything you say Tiago, thanks a lot btw! I will do the modifications very soon)

[wet briar]

Next time we do block presure with Vulcano punches and Frankensteiner

[magic harness]

YEAH
DO THIS
TELL HIM YOUR FRIEND IS GONNA WIPE THE FLOOR WITH HIS FACE

[wet briar]

We forgot about that move

[magic harness]

and just in case he's a competent player, we send our best players LMFAO

[magic harness]

LMAO
Yeah, in case I get the beating, Tiago will take over
Lmfao

Idk how to rank people here but I say we send : you, Tiago and Daru

he has to beat all three to come out on top (he won't)

You're the point character in the team [Luna-Daru-Tiago]... Luna, you will DESTROY him with the robbery first match. It's written in advance already.

Then it will be close between you guys

and then you beat him, and as the three of you go, you can say "I can give you advice if you want! If you work really hard, you can become intermediate level on our server" LMFAO

LMFAO

Sounds like a plan

[slate mica]

Y'all, I overreacted. Can we please drop this now? I don't want a witch hunt against this guy

[plush delta]

This server got your back. We gonna bring this guy down haha

[sinful herald]

@slate mica this is bad advice (sorry Galtera but it is)

Talk to Pace privately

Oh and one last thing (I don’t know if you’re doing this but if you are please don’t anymore), don’t have the stream on in the background while you’re playing. It’s just a huge distraction

[slate mica]

I don't

[sinful herald]

Word ok good

[slate mica]

I was listening to feedback from the VOD afterward

[sinful herald]

I do that too

Went 2-2 in yesterdays ladder and 1-1 on stream. Wanted to see what they were saying while I took my Coach Steve beating so I get it fully

[magic harness]

I disagree. Talking to the guy privately, if he ends up just saying "Sorry." or not answering or some shit like that (which I believe happened? @slate mica He told you he would do a real answer after work but did he even answer?), I would make it public, and say that I have been demoralized by the commentary and that it was unnecessary to try to mock me. Solving problems in private is the meta IRL as it has always been. But apologies in DM by text are shit, unless you can feel the sincerity by his choice of words.

[slate mica]

Yeah, he apologized for his behavior

[sinful herald]

Hey. You’re not being a “snowflake”, you’re having a completely normal (and healthy) reaction to being disrespected

[magic harness]

That's why they bring it to Twitter nowadays when there's a problem nowadays, because at least it puts PRESSURE on him

[magic harness]

That's something. I don't know how he did it, was it very simple, or an elaborate text on what he did wrong... all that depends. but if he apologized sincerely in your eyes, then it's all good. and we can all move on

[magic harness]

oh we were joking btw. but yes. we will move on very soon. I didn't get that he apologized

[warped pine]

I give up on anyone's definition of rookie. I'm just gonna stick to trying gimmicks on the new players here until Sf6 comes out

[sinful herald]

Of course you disagree, you did suggest he go public after all. I think it just paints a target on someone’s back for future bullshit, not only from the offender but from their friends. The internet is anonymous after all but the bigger names in the FGC are not. Its Pace’s event, his actions and the direction the RR goes will speak loudest. Year 1 is always a litmus test anyway, these things either get better or they just go away

[plush delta]

How was pinkish?

[magic harness]

no witch hunting here, I'll just say the guy did a a mistake and he has to aware of it. and if he apologized sincerely, then everything's fine

[warped pine]

we're about evenish? But you can tell he's working at improvement. They'll destroy me in a short span of time 🤣

[slate mica]

I will note, I'm also a bit stressed because AkTiVe found out I "snitched" on him for making it out of pools in a major, and now an entire server hates me

so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[plush delta]

Which server?

[sinful herald]

Dude (you didn’t ask so apologies) all you have to do is literally cycle your options and you’ll be god-like. For real for real

[plush delta]

I mean he broke the rules right?

[warped pine]

if you say so, lol

[sinful herald]

Telling you man. I saw you hit several light confirms yesterday, if you just did a different thing each time you approached instead of looping moves you’d be super hard to handle

[slate mica]

Just a casual server he and other Cali players played

[magic harness]

Hm...
I think it depends on the case
I personally agree with Galtera on that one
Making it public will ensure the guy won't do that again to anyone. It puts pressure in them.

I think we have to get a balance of
How important is this matter / How much I'll fuck this guy's life

[magic harness]

Honestly I just wrote something that you won't be able to understand, it's too complicated for me to write something such as what I wrote in English lmfao but yeah, there are times when going public is only beneficial, because even if the "RR" paint a target on your back and defend their friends, you just dash out of their server, right? They really that big and mad? Idk who these people are. I guess RR stands for Rookie Rumble, and Pace I might have heard the name before maybe. I didn't know them until very recently

[slate mica]

Yeah, and I told him not to enter the tournaments anymore

And then he did

[magic harness]

Oh @sinful herald btw when I said "going public" at first I thought twitter because I was heated from 2 things at once

but then I calmed down and went like "go public = go to their server"

I have a hard time expressing myself in English

Yeah my bad, at some point I was like go public = "go to twitter" and then I changed the meaning of "public" from Twitter to Discord lol

[sinful herald]

I can see how it might SEEM like a good idea, but there’s no guarantee a public call out will curb negative behavior and in fact might only make it worse. You’re making a big assumption that bullies feel shame or actually want to stop being shitty people. They don’t and they don’t care. This kind of thing has the potential to backfire

[plush delta]

Guys shakugan did apologize so this is all moot lol

[slate mica]

The bottom line is

1. Let's not do anything rash
2. He apologized so we're good to move on
3. Even if he didn't apologize, he didn't say anything on par with some of the things they said in the French FGC, just some laughter at my expense, which was completely justified based on the way I was performing
4. NONE OF THIS has anything to do with coaching anymore so let's move it to a different channel
5. I apologize to you all for bringing this up and drawing so much attention to it. The topic was initially broached in Coaching because I wanted to know how to stop rolling BECAUSE IT IS NOT A GOOD STRATEGY AND THE ENTIRE REASON I'M GETTING DISRESPECTED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

[sinful herald]

I get that

I’m interested in helping people out in future situations where maybe this doesn’t work out that way

Hey @slate mica I’m offering life coaching here so I’m on topic lol

[grim crypt]

"just some laughter at my expense, which was completely justified based on the way I was performing" Lou can you please stop saying stuff like this please

[magic harness]

1. Agreed
2. Agreed
3. NO IT WAS NOT JUSTIFIED. HE APOLOGIZED NOT FOR NOTHING.
4. Oh no Trippith...
5. The problem might be rolling, but it's tournament nerves, imo.

All good!

[magic harness]

YES PLEASE

[grim crypt]

Like with an attitude like that of course you're gonna be on tilt the moment you lose

You easily could of made the losers run but you got to unsure of yourself

so you started panicking and made obvious mistakes like rolling or grabbing to much on wake up/neutral

[warped pine]

@slate mica you're really good, you just gotta stay confident. I will again offer myself up as a sandbag before tournaments 😅

[magic harness]

I do agree, but taking it private causes exactly the same
As you said, bullies don't care and will shit on your face for talking to them.
If they are an influencer, or someone that needs the public, it's different tho
Which is why "Exposeds" are so common nowadays

[magic harness]

SORRY
I just want you to know that we have your back and we're trying to make you feel better

||And I also need to stop rolling||

[sinful herald]

Shit on your face…weoooow lmao! I think the difference between public and private is that in private it’s a lot easier to control the narrative and you don’t have all these bystanders (some of whom are malicious) automatically involved. When it’s private both of you know the bully doesn’t give a rip, it’s more about the action of standing up for yourself and setting a boundary for the future aka, “I tried to tell you bro…”

[magic harness]

Oh
It does make sense, but as I said, I think it depends on the case.
If he was a school bully, or someone like Tricky, who is just rude or something of the sort, I'd totally agree.

But when the person has a public image? I think exposing to the public causes much more impact and forces them to change even if they don't actually care about you at all.

[sinful herald]

Only if their fans and simps care, if those people are also morally bankrupt then you’re shit outta luck

The reason someone like Tricky is on thin ice is because of that fact, they haven’t built up enough of a following to be bulletproof to this kind of thing

They rub people the wrong way

[magic harness]

Ah, in that case, you're fucked
But even people like Johnny Depp, who has A LOT of fans and stuff got some MAJOR losses because of a false accusation, something that wasn't even proven that he did

[sinful herald]

Well if you have money then you don’t give a damn anyway, also JD was up against false accusations AND societal norms. But now we’re WAY off topic soooooo

@wet briar where did we land on that fuzzy tech video?

[magic harness]

LOL
I do agree tho, I chose a bad example.
But still, I meant that JD works with public, and he lost lots of job opportunities because someone brought what he "did" to public.
Which wouldn't have happened if it was something private

[torpid quarry]

Hold up I Already told y’all before no witch hunting

Y’all just asking to get smoked

[magic harness]

But that guy is not a witch
He is a commentator
So it's not a witch hunt, it's a commentator hunt

[warped pine]

https://tenor.com/view/attention-patron-watch-boss-pretend-to-work-watcha-boss-ooops-le-patron-gif-25006577

[torpid quarry]

[magic harness]

Welp...
I'm not wrong in that at least
Lmfao

[wet briar]

https://youtu.be/ucdOfh5r9Uo this guy's as a lot of helpful videos

[sinful herald]

I LOVE this dudes content

How the hell did I not see this

Thanks dude

[wet briar]

He got more stuff

About Thay also

[sinful herald]

He taught me what a safe jump was last year

[wet briar]

https://youtu.be/YWGU0HrYXKA

https://youtu.be/6R2WIx6Nfcs

He puts effort into putting notions on XD

https://youtu.be/tPbrhlbf70c

And for those who want to kick my ass I'm playing ryo lately

[sinful herald]

1. Don’t get cornered
2. Don’t get cornered
3. Don’t get cornered
4. Seriously, do not get cornered
5. If you get cornered it’s ggs
6. Stay away from being cornered
7. Corner

[grizzled heart]

Stay away from the corner DONT JUMP

ryo be like DP

[wet briar]

Trouble block CD

Always works

[magic harness]

me especially xd it was mostly jokes though, but I was real pissed before

[wet briar]

@plush delta

What do you do ?

Ex tatsu right

[plush delta]

For Robert?

I can do this with Robert

https://youtu.be/6yZMejya1TM

[wet briar]

If you can do that with Robert you can do with Ryo

Is the motion of Robert the same as Ryo

[rancid marlin]

Robert is K instead of P

Robert lowkey easier cause it doesnt share input

[wet briar]

Thays why super comes out

Because of ryo as lot of short cuts

[rancid marlin]

so what's the secret for zanrestsuken Ryo on stick

[plush delta]

The command grab does come out sometimes though if I’m careless

Honestly if they delete Robert command grab, I’ll be very happy lol

[rancid marlin]

I hear that. For Ryo sometimes I get the fireball super its been very ridiculous at times can just ruin everything smh

[wet briar]

I think there is no secret the secret is not going a bit with the stick down and stay neutral as much you can

Or do 2C 646

[plush delta]

Yeah that was my biggest issue and why I don’t main Ryo. Fireball super always comes out for me

[wet briar]

It also works for me very well

[rancid marlin]

Really for stick I just need to work on doing the super motions

[wet briar]

I mostly do 6D46punch

[rancid marlin]

I hardly can ever do them

[plush delta]

Yeah as I said, I just have to be deliberate with my inputs

[plush delta]

You use analog on pad too which makes it way easier to misinput

[wet briar]

But like that you break the inputs so other stuff doesn't come out

[plush delta]

Yeah I do it that way

[rancid marlin]

I sometimes just do HCB forward instead tho

but still can drop maybe

[plush delta]

Oh that can possibly work

[wet briar]

When you go for the last input your wrist must be doing 36

[plush delta]

So doing 360 won’t work?

[wet briar]

Yeah

That's what i wanted to say

[plush delta]

Would 62486 work?

[wet briar]

Don't think so

But something can come out

[sinful herald]

Square gate or octo?

[rancid marlin]

What is this

I have a Qanba drone

Clicks in 8 directions is this what you mean?

[sinful herald]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arcade_controller

Scroll down to restricter gates

If you have an octagonal gate you can wheel the stick pretty easily

[rancid marlin]

I looked on the box

square restrictor gate

[sinful herald]

Try an octo

They’re like $5 or so

I hated the square, it made stand blocking way more difficult than it needed to be and any motion the lever sometimes gets stuck in a corner

[rancid marlin]

is there a specific one I need to get for the stick I have?

[sinful herald]

A quick google tells me you should just swap the whole lever out for a JLF. Get a 2lb spring and octo gate because they come with a square. Should be around $30 with shipping

Sounds like Qanba levers are not great

JLF = Sanwa btw

All you need is a screwdriver

[magic harness]

I found one that does 800+ you interested in seeing it?

[plush delta]

Sure. Although since Robert is played on point, he likely won’t have access to that much meter

[slate mica]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf5evTWjxaA

Revisiting this video now that I can get the movement options down (Part I)
How accurate is this for a neutral primer?

[plush delta]

I think dandy J has a great KoF neutral video

[slate mica]

I've watched it as well. The one with the KoF zone?

I don't know how that works currently in the context of pressuring

[plush delta]

It’s the one with the triangle - hops, jabs, etc. one of the first KoF videos I watched

[slate mica]

Like, my pressure is straight up dookie, so trying to work on that.

[plush delta]

How do you pressure?

I’m not the best but I can be pretty aggressive I think

Safe jumps will be the best way to pressure

[slate mica]

Either re-hop or dash-in. Been trying to also use blockstrings to set up plus buttons, but I can't even get the string to hit to begin with to set up a block string

I'm either losing to jabs/ quick buttons or air-to-airs

[plush delta]

Yeah hit confirms can be an execution barrier. You need to be good with light confirms

[slate mica]

Or it's not my turn, and I'm playing defense which isn't a pressure situation anyway

[plush delta]

Air to air is tricky. You need to fully understand which button beats which and it’s not always intuitive and can be character dependent

[slate mica]

The issue isn't so much confirming a hit/block. It's more not getting any offense at all. It's in not getting the situation to make an offensive opening/pressure string

In the past I've been playing a little more hesitantly, which increases the efficiency of the approaches (i.e. a greater percentage of approaches convert), but also limits the attempts and doesn't allow me to control the flow of the match

[plush delta]

Yeah it’s not easy. And also not the easiest to explain. It’s really very character dependent and requires understanding how your character’s buttons work and what they are good in and what situations to use them

[plush delta]

Some characters are better than others at getting in and creating pressure

[slate mica]

The thing is, I'm on my shoto arc specifically to work on that aspect of the game

[warped pine]

Sometimes you have to YOLO some buttons and see what works/doesn't work

[slate mica]

Like, I'm using Iori, Robert, and idk maybe someone else I haven't decided yet bc I don't know combos for anyone elsee

[plush delta]

Yeah Iori should have an easier time creating pressure but you need to be good with hops, and doing is taco and utilizing his various pokes and using his speed and mixup tools

[slate mica]

The issue is when I am being less hesitant, I'm getting blown up for doing so

[plush delta]

For Robert, use his strong fireball pressure, and kick buttons to get in. Tatsu and dive kicks when spaced right are really good and he has a good dp too

His 2B can catch a lot of opponents and easily leads to his BnB

He’s pretty straightforward

[slate mica]

Yeah, that's my gameplan. I'm just not making it work.

[warped pine]

Fireball, 2b 2b 2b tatsu, CD

[plush delta]

I think you just need time to get used to the characters and their buttons. You shouldn’t expect results over night

[slate mica]

Like. idk. I feel like if you understand neutral and pressure and all that it should be transferrable in this game. And idk if I understand pressure or neutral or any of that because I've been crutching so hard on grapplers and zoners since the game came out.

So idk if it's me not understanding pressure/ neutral

Or not knowing the characters

And if it is the former, I really want to know better. Or learn better

Like, really understand pressure and neutral to the best extent I can

[plush delta]

I play zoners and grapplers too so maybe I don’t understand neutral as well then haha

[slate mica]

Well, like

okay so, with Clark, I feel like a lot of my offense/ pressure is pretty gimmicky.

[plush delta]

Well Clark is gimmicky

You can’t do normal pressure with him against a good opponent, your gameplay is basically to start his vortex

[slate mica]

That's what I've been sayin', yeah.

Not here, but the past week, yeah

So idk if I just don't know how to play KoF when it all comes down to it

[plush delta]

He has different ways to start his vortex (jump D or any air to air hits really, light confirm into 214P) so your gameplan is to get those hits. Then when you do, that’s where the vortex starts

[slate mica]

Oh, for sure. I feel like I do a lot of that here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQEwVSTYqTc

[plush delta]

I mean @magic harness relies a lot on Shermie gimmicks and frametraps and she’s really good

[plush delta]

But yeah that gameplan is completely different than say Iori who can generate good pressure in neutral due to all his various tools

[slate mica]

She does, and that rules. I'm just worried about not knowing the game or having my understanding of the game limited or warped due to my misunderstanding of how to play

[magic harness]

I am starting to learn how to live without them!
Lol

[plush delta]

Like what’s my Athena gameplan? Throw a lot of fireballs, catch people with crossups jump B, and jump back dive kicks. So that’s gimmicky too right?

[magic harness]

I am using more honest teams
Like Sacred Treasures and South Town
Lmao

[plush delta]

What’s my Meitenkun game plan? Throw pillows, catch people off guard with lunge punch into super and use ex dp against jump ins

[warped pine]

Ralf is honest

[plush delta]

What’s my whip game plan? Jump back CD and a LOT of crossup jump C

What’s my rock game plan? Jump B air to air, jump or hop D into ex elbow for big damage

[slate mica]

Like, and that's fine. My current level of play is getting me made fun of on stream though. I need to get to that next level where I can low confirm, jump confirm, get the honest mixups, get the frametraps, get the pressure. Get the wins, performance, and understanding of the game that are going to get me to mid-level play

I'm not even talking about learning higher level play yet; just understanding the basics of KoF pressure and neutral

[plush delta]

Robert has easy low confirms

Jump confirms requires being good with hops

[slate mica]

As I mentioned here, I have the movement options down. I practice these at least once maybe twice a day. I have that aspect of execution down

I'm just not making it convert into successful pressure opportunities

[plush delta]

Safe jumps will help with that

[slate mica]

Sorry, I'm just. I Don't Know How To Proceed (tm)

[slate mica]

True enough

[magic harness]

Hey Lou
What about instead of Shotos, trying to play someone like BM or Angel that are pure rushdown?

[warped pine]

The fist of the Kusanagi

[plush delta]

Iori is a rushdown character with shoto tools

[magic harness]

Angel forced me to understand how to open people up
Move a lot, sweep, jump, backdash, run, hop, jump

[magic harness]

Yup
Iori is an amazing option yes
Who else...

Kula?

[plush delta]

Yashiro

[slate mica]

Angel plays so much differently than the rest of the cast though. BM I have been considering, but I dun wanna subject the server to that 😅

[warped pine]

Vanessa

[magic harness]

Play Team Orochi
Yash, Chris and Shermie

Shermie is a comfort zone
You should have one when testing new stuff
That way you won't feel too frustrated

[plush delta]

Mary is just as gimmicky as Clark with the added advantage that a lot of people don’t know the matchup compared to Clark

[slate mica]

That fair, yeah.

[slate mica]

This is actually a decent idea

[magic harness]

Yash is fairly easy for combos, Chris...
Not so much tbh

Idk Chris to be sure

[slate mica]

I loathe Chris, but for the sake of learning rushdown and pressure it could be useful

He still has plus strings, right?

[magic harness]

Not sure tbh
I tend to fight him by mashing DP

[warped pine]

COME ON!

[plush delta]

Chris is a lot of rushdown gimmicks as well

[magic harness]

Maybe trade Chris for Iori if you really hate him

[slate mica]

I see

Might just try to learn Yashiro then

[magic harness]

I honestly just abuse j. C as crossup
And basic af combos

[warped pine]

I wish I had this problem. I can't stop playing rushdown 😂

[magic harness]

Cl. C, 6A, 214C, Supers
Lmao

2B, 2A, 214A, Supers

2C is an amazing anti air

I don't even do the dash stuff
Lol

CD is also a great button

[plush delta]

And once you learn yashiro, you can easily learn o yashiro

[slate mica]

I would if I purchased the team

At this point it feels kinda like a risk to buy team pass 2 since I dun know if I'll drop them in like a week like team garou

[magic harness]

I really LOVE Awakened Orochi Team
But I haven't bought SamSho

[plush delta]

Sam sho not worth it but awakened orochi team was my favorite dlc team

[grim crypt]

Personally I think you're overthinking it with these character choices Lou

I think it's perfectly fine keeping shermie and clark on the team still

[plush delta]

For me awakened orochi >> Garou >>> south town > Sam sho

[plush delta]

I think there’s no harm in learning other characters as long as he’s not expecting it to be an overnight cure all/instant win condition. He can always go back to Shermie and Clark after

Learning other characters at the very least will help with learning matchups

[warped pine]

Yeah, I keep my 2 comfort characters and constantly audition new ones at point.

[grim crypt]

Yeah that's were I was going with it just couldn't get it into words properly

[plush delta]

Also KoF having a roster of 50+ characters, it would be a shame to only play 3 of the 50

@slate mica we should play a low stakes random select set. That way, you can have fun and learn different characters instead of having the pressure to win

[grim crypt]

Yeah their are so many cool characters in this game

[warped pine]

Also when I have bad KOF days, it usually ends up being bad character days, so having a nice rotation on the bench or for certain matchups can help

[slate mica]

At some point, probably. I just don't know how to do shit as, like, over half the cast

I only really know how to use 4 characters rn (maybe 5 but 1 I'm banned from using).

Like, that's part of why I want to actually learn neutral. So I can use more than just 4 fighters

[warped pine]

I found maxima from screwing around lol

[slate mica]

I do random select matches with my brother all the time on the weekends where I'm not allowed to use anyone I know how to play. It's basically a lot of trolling with Chris and Ryo

[plush delta]

So do I. The point is to have fun without any expectations of winning, but that’s up to you

[slate mica]

Right now my main focus is trying to get folks to stop laughing at me on stream, lol

[plush delta]

I assure you, no one’s really laughing at you

[slate mica]

"I'm really trying not to laugh here, but..."

[grim crypt]

I thought we moved passed that Lou?

[slate mica]

Brother, let me tell you something

I learned a long time ago that the way to stop getting people to laugh at you, the way to stop getting people to treat you with respect, is to get stronger

When I was a freshman wrestler, I got teased a lot by my peers for getting pinned every match.

I was weak, I was overweight. I wasn't savvy.

I kept training and dedicated a lot of my life to improving in wrestling. I stayed after to get advice from coach. I did the dieting, the extra reps in the weight room. I did all that.

Senior year, I was captain

Junior year, I got my first varsity win

That's when it all stopped. That when folks actually started treating me like I was somethin'

And I loved wrestling so much I was dedicated to make that work

So I'm here rn to get advice and to work with folks who know how to improve my game

I can have fun anytime

But if I really want to get dignity on these streams? I really gotta go for it. I need to drill this shit. I need to get in the reps and put in the work.

[plush delta]

Okay 👍

[slate mica]

Because I want to appear on this stream and play my team

but right now my mind is just so mired in beginner tactics and pre-rudimentary gameplay that it's difficult to not fall into old habits

To I need to just take a break from them

Let the bad habits fade

Watch the videos

Train the combos

Learn neutral

Actually spend a few months working on the shoto arc

So I'll return, and I won't be doing wakeup command grabs, the "AngstyLou Special"

I won't be doing these rolls since I'll have a better idea of how neutral works.

I'll pressure better, I'll work better. And I will be better.

So, I'm not going to move past this.

I'm going to move THROUGH IT

[meager portal]

Do it.
Subject the server to another bm

[slate mica]

This is my shoto arc, not my heel turn

[magic harness]

Honestly, me too
When I play a char Idk, I try to just remember one special that seems ok to use, one command normal and do the basic kof combos
Normal, cmd normal, special, supers
Or 2B, 2A, some special
Lol

I roll too much, but try to jump a lot, and fish for hit confirms
Lol

[warped pine]

https://tenor.com/view/no-god-please-no-no-please-no-no-god-no-yelling-gif-26334008

[meager portal]

I wonder if my bm would cook in rr

I'll probably just stick with Joe though, he's way more fun

[sinful herald]

Learning Chris will force you to cycle your options because he literally has all the tools. That’s why his damage is straight ass lol. He is no longer plus off max range 214A however, honestly I don’t recommend learning him as he’s so low tier that using him is almost flex at this point

[sinful herald]

I think you did pretty well here btw. There was one thing your opponent did a lot of that you didn’t seem to key in on. Can you spot it?

Oh and if you want to practice your pressure you need to have the dummy set to reversal throw. People are going to try and interrupt you with buttons, command grabs, DP’s, SS etc etc. I know it’s a lot

Seriously just practice “the thing” for 5-10 minutes a side MAX (literally set a timer) and then move on. I’m doing this now with Isla and did it with other characters I learned as well. It’s a process that just takes time, you won’t know you’re there right off top

[slate mica]

I'm noticing the opponent does a lot of defensive backjumps/ back hops. And while they were challenging full jumps with DPs, they also weren't really challenging my hop-in attempts, so I probably could have mixed in more of those with CDs, especially on point.

[slate mica]

This makes a lot of sense. It's a bit for sure, but if pressure was easy I'd probably be seeing a lot more of it in Ranked.

[slate mica]

Understandable. I'm doing this with random guard on light confirms now and it makes sense that it would be adaptable to pressure as well. Consistency is key.

[sinful herald]

Random guard for hit confirms and guard all for pressure strings. Reversal throw on both to make sure they are air tight

[sinful herald]

Yes they were almost always moving backwards, especially with back rolling. Clark absolutely destroys back rolling with running tackle and armor grab. But yeah it was essentially you chasing him down the whole time lol. Which can be frustrating haha and why players do it. They are hoping we overextend

[slate mica]

Yeah one of the big things at this Ranked level is a lot of folks still do a hit and run kind of strategy. I see it mostly with Kings, Joes, even Shingos where they backjump and Shingo Kick. Hadn't considered using Running Tackle because it's so punishable, but it makes sense that it's a counter to a backjump if it's properly spaced

[sinful herald]

Running tackle also goes through projectiles, correct? And yes it’s risky against a patient opponent but one who is jumping a lot/whiffing lots of buttons out range? It’s what that move is made to blow up lol

[slate mica]

It can't beat projectiles, unfortunately. And I'll definitely keep that in mind. I guess the reason I don't see that a lot in replays is because there aren't many people at higher levels who try that

[sinful herald]

So true. The thing about watching high level players is that a lot of options have sort of been cut off intrinsically so the game is played much differently than the way we do. I can assure you that those guys will always attempt to run the dumb stuff first just to see if we have an answer for it, and only move on after it’s been addressed

[wet briar]

@magic harness

This is the input for DP into orochinagi

Did só many Times só my inputs were clean só you would understand better

Dont know why the 3 motion did not came out on the stick but the DP and the super came out go lab and do it on your pad and see how it works

[slate mica]

I know I ask a lot of questions, especially lately, but how long should it generally take for you to be confident in your pressure strings?
Right now a lot of this feels extremely awkward to do, and I even pause on empty jump lows because my brain isn't putting shit together fast enough. I feel like these should come as quickly as lows; not a completely different string altogether. And pausing eliminates the effectiveness or use of them altogether.

And why 5-10 minutes maximum?

[sinful herald]

Because there’s so much to work on and because we hit the point of diminishing returns kinda fast. This isn’t to say that you’re done for the day (apologies if that was your takeaway) just keep it moving keep it fresh. We have 3 characters to learn so switch it up

Come back to it after you’ve rotated through all 3 characters

[sinful herald]

Tbh? Never. There’s always gonna be drops there’s always gonna be spacing mistakes or people mashing reversals etc etc. Just gotta keep going for it

As for speed, do it slowly in the lab. Slow enough that it doesn’t actually work, the goal is to build muscle memory. I’m currently working on cramming even more lights into my strings and the timing is super super tight but it’s doable

Initially I was trying to do the whole thing off top and finding it very frustrating. Slowing down and chunking helps a lot. Let’s take this Yuri combo as an example

j.D > 2A > 2A > 5B > 3D > 214AC > 623BD > C > 236BD > C > 623D > AC

It’s a bit much huh? Here’s how I visualize and chunk it so it’s more manageable

-j.D

-2A > 2A > 5B (sometimes I don’t even know what side I’m on so this buys me time to figure that out lol)

-3D (this gets its own spot because it’s easy for me to drop)

-214AC > 623BD (button hold trick ensures the EX demon flip comes out)

-C > 623BD (these have to be done fast but still deliberate)
-C > 623D > AC ( I’m chilling here)

[grizzled heart]

This is the mind of a Yuri player 👆

Coolest AOF character no question

[sinful herald]

100%

But yeah long winded Ted Talk ™️ answer to your question, just break up your pressure or combos into smaller bites. And for now just keep it simple. After a while you’ll build on that success

[slate mica]

No, definitely hittin' it with all three (doing so today in fact gave me a frametrap idea with Shermie), but diminishing returns makes sense.

[slate mica]

Okay, so it's similar to combos. Gotcha.

[sinful herald]

Can only speak for myself but I notice my execution gets sloppy if I push too long 🤷

[slate mica]

Okay, so that was another thing. I noticed later in practice I was dropping inputs a LOT more than early in practice. And that's probably a natural thing it sounds like. I thought this meant I need to spend more time working on execution, but it's likely to come with consistency, right?

Assuming I can hit the combo 10 times in a row before hitting the 6-7 minute mark, of course

[sinful herald]

Eh 10 times in a row is a good goal but I personally don’t shoot for it. The order I use is:

-No Guard (new combos just to get the sequence down)

• 1 Hit Guard once I’m more comfortable
  -Random to dial in hit confirms

[sinful herald]

Yeah. Personally it just gets repetitive and I start rushing stuff

Which moves the needle in the wrong direction

[grizzled heart]

I’ve been playing the CPU level 3 to try and get hit confirms in too

sometimes they’re weird tho for sure

[sinful herald]

That’s another good one but yes they will do stuff no human will ever do

[slate mica]

Yeah, it's possible to make consistent errors in practice which affect your ability to do things. I'm learning that now in capoeira

[sinful herald]

Exactly. Practice doesn’t make perfect it makes permanent

Perfect practice makes perfect

And that’s cool btw capoeira seems like a great workout

[slate mica]

It's fun. Same issues I'm having with KoF tho re: mental state.

I've been doing both about the same length of time and finding plateaus in the same areas -- one involving neutral (light confirms amd pressure) the other involving execution (ability to do handstands).

...maybe these issues are more similar than they are different

I'll have to think about this more

[sinful herald]

Sounds like you need to exercise your flusher

[slate mica]

I think you'll need to elaborate on this one. Not familiar with the diction 😅

[sinful herald]

Hahaha

Make a mistake? Flush it out from our mind

This doesn’t mean we don’t care or aren’t trying btw. Just that we move forward as soon as we can. Here’s a personal example; way back in the early days when I would eat a wake up DP, or a fake frame trap DP (opponent does unsafe thing then invincible DP’s) I would get tilted 😹

“I’m so dumb”

“I should have seen that coming”

Etc etc

After really stopping and looking at the situation as objectively as I could it became easier and easier to “flush” it and move on

Even when it costs me a match

[slate mica]

Oh, yeah. Like how quarterbacks are supposed to have that QB Amnesia after throwing a pick

[sinful herald]

EXACTLY

They can’t afford to get in their own head

[slate mica]

And they got the big dollars on the line, yee

[sinful herald]

I mean yeah so you’d think that would up the pressure. Look at the TD pass leaders and then look at the interception leaders

Lotta overlap

[slate mica]

Bringing up a really good point there, yeah.

[magic harness]

And that way you can make me go insane too!

... am I kidding or not, even I don't really know lol

I feel like BM... is strong with resources. Like an actual solid character. She seems to have : good damage, overall okay tools, really okay normals and neutral, setups.

But why isn't she placed as high as reg Shermie? Does Shermie do everything she does but for more damage?

I had a similat question too : what makes Chris (regular Chris) not that good? And what makes O.Chris better? Since according to tier lists Chris is not that great.

Exact same question for Yashiro, except I know that base Yash despite being seen not nearly as often as before, is still a solid character. Why is O.Yash picked more often?

Is it damage and not much else or is there more to it I don't see

[sinful herald]

Not Luna but I’ll chime in. Chris has absolutely terrible damage and super short range. Usually it’s one or the other but not both. O Chris has damage but no movement options like Chris plus the same stubby normals

Shermie is way easier execution-wise and has way better damage than BM. Yashiro is still good just not broken, O Yash kept the busted normals

Curious what she has to say

[torpid quarry]

Highkey BM command grab mix isn’t much to worry about because she can’t super cancel from it like shermie can, and also her cross ups aren’t free either. Same goes for her buttons as they’re angled rather weird don’t get me wrong BM normals are good but not as ridiculous as shermie and as for her damage? You really gotta do all this extra shit just to mirror shermie’s damage just to be off by a little bit. So that’s why she’s like z tier imo

[grizzled heart]

Yeah Shermie is free

Mickey Mouse character

[spark mauve]

Any tips on timing for light attack strings

[plush delta]

There’s a video that shows the timing

Hopefully someone can dig it up

[primal oasis]

This one?

[warm hollow]

This is low-key fantastic advice

[spark mauve]

I saw this video thought it would help but it’s still kinda tough

[sinful herald]

Thanks man

[sinful herald]

Try pressing slowly at first like over exaggerate it, there’s actually a decent amount of time no need to mash

[wet briar]

B.marry is a very solid character but has some flaw's her normals are great but have bad recovery if you whiff something your screwed not good damage with out meter, her supers don't make that good damage in combos

[magic harness]

@sinful herald @torpid quarry @wet briar thanks guys

[meager portal]

If you whiff BM 3D just put down the controller because you're already dead

[magic harness]

Honestly, I have no idea
I think BM just needs higher execution to be able to actually do all her shit
Her vortex might be even a bit better than Shermie's, but I think the execution and a bit less brute damage makes her a bit less strong than Shermie?
Idk tbh, I don't like BM one single bit
Lmfao

[magic harness]

Chris has LOTS of tools, he can do everything tbh. He has a DP, lots of big combos, mix ups, movement, side switches, and everything you might need. Only his normals are kinda bad imo, but really ok tbh. But he has NO DAMAGE. He can do everything, but nothing he does has damage. And to make it worse, I think his pressure isn't good, all of his specials and blockstrings are punishable, you just have to guess right where he'll attack, and you can punish him. So...
He is bad imo, but not unviable.

O. Chris on the other hand, he has no mobility, his DP is more of a combo tool than a true DP, still same weird normals, but unlike Chris, he has BIG combos for BIG damage. He just spends a lot on them tbh, and like Angel, he NEEDS to be on offensive, his defensive options are shit.

O. Yash is just OP imo
He has amazing normals, easy hit confirms, and any 2B can lead into 5A, 5C, run grab, super. Which leads to like 40% damage for one bar
And he also has the setups and weird side switches Shermie has, just a bit harder to do imo
But...
He is OP af imo

Reg Yash is just good. He is not bad after the nerfs, he is still good. Just, not as much as before, and not as much as O. Yash. He has big combos, good damage, easy confirms, his normals just aren't that OP anymore.

[magic harness]

Ok, I just said the same thing but less well said
Lmfao
I am bad at expressing what I actually want to

You said basically the same thing, but MUCH smaller text
Lol

[slate mica]

And, honestly, after patch 1.62 her execution is a lot easier now that her command normal can be either a 6A or 4A. This makes it easier to combo into EX Slicer

[magic harness]

Cool! I didn't know that
Lol

[sinful herald]

I take special pleasure in hitting Blue Mary’s with j.CD because 3D trading and still letting her combo after is dumb as fuck. Same goes for any other move like this (Clark j.A, K’ EX flame up kick) get that shit outta here

[meager portal]

Yeah, BM got that fatal fury privilege

[sinful herald]

Not when I’m fighting her

Nyeheheh

[grizzled heart]

K’ needs it

Smoke hates blue Mary like I hate Luong

[meager portal]

Me, zero, and trip the only bm fans fr fr

[warped pine]

I would like her if she didn't have that broken infinite combo

[grizzled heart]

I like BM

[rancid marlin]

me

[warped pine]

with her fake sub zero ass lol

[grizzled heart]

LOL FAKE SUB ZERO ASS

[meager portal]

Its not infinite, it ends when you die🤡🤡🤡

[grim crypt]

I am a blue mary enjoyer

I'd play her more if her buttons didn't give me a headache most of the time

Now Kim does that for me to an extent 😂

[meager portal]

Makes sense

Kim buttons are wack

[magic harness]

She's... I mean in my eyes she doesn't seem bad. She might be not as good as Shermie, maybe Shermie does everything better, but she doesn't seem bad either. Might be overrating though

[spark mauve]

<@&1020150383139631124> beginner here

[magic harness]

I see. Thank you. I checked out Chris and I really liked the character in 2002UM, and he seemed... like yeah he does no damage but as you said his mobility and options are good. If he gets a substantial damage buff he could become really alright, but as you said, no way to safe pressure is usually a big, big downside

[magic harness]

Thanks again, yeah he seems totally ridiculous. Like in 2 or 3? Holy. Shit. Put him in a worth team with characters like Beni and K' who need few resources to actually work and put him in 3? this character seems like the biggest menace. A grappler who does insane damage, who can mix with command grabs and do a very ambiguous left-right, who can do 90% with a 4f 2C and 5bars and has super fucking good normals ... (okay you need the 5 bars for 90% but there's like, no execution)

THAT FUCKING CD CAN BE PLUS ON BLOCK

[sinful herald]

Bro BM is not bad by any stretch of the imagination. She’s a super cheap character with stupid easy cross ups and like…3 get out of jail cards? Literally don’t run oki on this character unless you want to eat a reversal. She’s just not easy the way Shermie is or has damage the way Shermie does. That’s it that’s all

[sinful herald]

If Chris got a damage buff he’d be top 3

Easy

He has all the tools

[magic harness]

Okay I thought someone overexaggerated their opinion on a "BM is bad and worthless" then, but okay, I just really have a hard time judging characters still, of course! I can't play the damn game (no I can but I can hardly spend more than 3 hours on video games a week right now and it's all on week-ends)

[sinful herald]

Nah you’re good man! If you’re basing this on “I don’t see BM on tournament stream” it’s just because she’s not easy

[magic harness]

even with all punishable pressure you think?

[sinful herald]

He has safe pressure

214A is safe as fuck

If they try to do something he DP’s

Next time they’ll wait and block and he’ll command grab

Etc

He has mixups for days

[magic harness]

well, yeah I never really hear about her yet I tried her out because someone I know who wants to get into the game soon really likes her, and I thought maybe Shermie was better in every aspect, but she really doesn't seem bad. Thanks for confirming

[magic harness]

Thank you!

I... didn't remember if his shit was all unsafe or not actually

but he seems so cool to play, like in 2002UM

I might try him out tbh

[sinful herald]

He’s top tier in 02 tbh

[magic harness]

yeah he is, in 02UM he's like up there

maybe just below Kula K' Nameless Kasumi

and maybe a few others I forget

I know CAP plays him, one of the absolute best players in Japan iirc

lol

ESL humor

[sinful herald]

But yeah he can go high, low, command grab, command dash he has a ton of safe jumps one of the best jump CD’s in the game which again, is why his damage is ass. It’s kind of the same deal with Clark. Do NOT let him get started lol

[magic harness]

yeah okay I need to check him out more I didn't get all his options. I LOVE COMMAND DASHES. and his is so good. are his command dash options better than say, Rock's ?

[sinful herald]

Prob not

[magic harness]

okay

[sinful herald]

They are only useful once the opponent has been conditioned to sit still

[magic harness]

I see

[sinful herald]

Similar to Yuri

[magic harness]

Thank you very much Smoke! 👍

[sinful herald]

No prob 🔥

[magic harness]

Will check the little shota out again

... whenever I can actually play

[sinful herald]

He’s fun I definitely played him a lot last season and have been peppering him in here and there

[magic harness]

cool! like if I need help with him, can I @ you a few questions? I will try not to do a wall of text of questions and remarks, just straight up questions

[sinful herald]

Haha you can do whatever man it’s all good

[magic harness]

thanks

[sinful herald]

I’ll try and help out

[magic harness]

thanks again

[magic harness]

@tardy wigeon @runic rain
Dino combos?
Lmao

[tardy wigeon]

What about them

[runic rain]

What's up?

Dino ain't hard just lab 🤣

If you asked for K' then I'd understand 🤣

[magic harness]

I'm just lazy
I wanted some quick notations
Lmao

[grizzled heart]

Cherry be like: what you asked me for information abt the game? Just lab

Starting to think this bitch don’t know anything fr 😂

Insert Character is easy just Lab 😂

🤭🤭🤭🤭

[spark mauve]

Light confirm tips

[plush delta]

Lots of practice unfortunately is the best tip. Also don’t be in a rush to press the buttons

[sinful herald]

Turn the input display on. Press 2B > 2A (this is the universal KOF light confirm)

Did it link? Awesome you did it correctly! If not check and see how many frames you had in between the 2 moves. Usually it’s around 6 or 7 needed

When I was learning I was mashing and pressing too quickly. Just press each button once and see what happens. Adjust as needed

[slate mica]

https://youtu.be/Der3Otd8X0g

There's also this video with some tips.

[wet briar]

Thays the best video to explain light combos i always say do s song in your head helped Luna

[warped pine]

https://tenor.com/view/how-iplaysmash-gif-5006024

[magic harness]

I think he really should listen to you you're the only one here I see doing : light - light - super

Rait optimizing the damage scaling by going straight into the super

[grizzled heart]

Raitguy is super

[magic harness]

Duncan will you be here to play tomorrow?

[grizzled heart]

Yes indeed

[magic harness]

OH just remembered about my question:

Do you guys think playing a bit of older KOF games that are less combo-heavy than XV and more based on aggression with fast neutral and movement and it being heavy on pressure resets and fast hit confirms is a good/bad idea?

Or if I decide to play KOF98, will most of what I do NOT transfer to XV? KOF being a legacy game like Tekken, I know I played Tekken 5 DR with my friends and game was so fucking similar to Tekken 7

KOF certainly is less like that but I still wonder

I will play KOF98 a bit anyway but I wanted to know if it might help in XV...

(Do not worry I will play XV 90% of the time)

[magic harness]

Cool! Will do all I can to get a good session going tomorrow so... rematch! I think you improved so much, trust me, I've heard about your Iori from some people and it's scary as fuck apparently

Looking forward to it!

I wish I wasnt so lazy sometimes... like today all I had to do was setup a new printer for my family business... yet I did not come to play when I had the chance...

I had a good click in training mode today but I will have to work hard in order to make it happen in real match.

I was a decent player at many fighting games, even games like Blazblue I was decent. SF and MK I kinda kicked ass. I sometimes feel miserable after playing KOF because I can't do what I want yet, I don't have the rhythm of the game embedded in my brain and I jump/overextend a lot because my neutral is not strong...

And neutral/footsies and strong fundamentals and defense is my playstyle... I'm a Fei Long player, a Guile player too.

That's why it's so frustrating to play KOF for me sometimes. I feel like I can boot SF5 and kick ass after 2-3 days of playing even though I hate the game.

I love KOF so much but its frustrating, hence why I think I even avoid to play sometimes because I want to protect my fragile ego.

I have to work of my mentality, for real

[grizzled heart]

Hell yes dude I’m stoked

[magic harness]

LFG!!!

[runic rain]

It's not hard to go in practice mode for 4 seconds 💀

[runic rain]

I like that burn though!! You always coming up with the best rips 🤣 I love em xD

[magic harness]

Duncan funny asf for real lol

[warped pine]

I came up on 98, that's where I get my neutral from. Playing it could really help because you can't depend on 37363728 hit combos in it 😅

[raven ridge]

L O L unreal comment 😭

[magic harness]

Yea that's what I'm thinking for real. My combos in XV aren't perfect but at least I know how to capitalize hard, its def one of my strongest points for sure. had to learn them because my neutral is not strong and combos for someone with experience and ok execution is the simplest aspect of learning a new game usually (unless you choose the most difficult characters right away)

Also 98 is so fast paced and "aggressive neutral" based with small combos you do off of fast hit confirms... I really think playing some 98 sometimes might be a good thing for me. Might help me in reaching the click i need in XV... will try.

I will play like regular Chris, Iori and Daimon for a top tier team (I know O.Chris better than base, but apparently base Chris is pretty fucking insane too according to the ratio tier list). Might also play base or o.yash and ralf too he seems popular

Oh and Mature I love her fireball and rekkas

[wet briar]

I have KOF 2002 I'll wait for discount on 98 final edition

Bit 98 is my fav

I m down for it and garou also

[grizzled heart]

Play KOF 96 actually that’s the key

[wet briar]

I hate extra sorry advanced all day XD

[slate mica]

So
As you all know, I was interested in using Sylvie prior to today
I still think I want to learn Sylvie
However, she seems like she has a lot of tools and gimmicks
I am primarily focused on learning fundamentals rn, because I am very bad at neutral
Would it be in my best interest for learning neutral to forego learning Sylvie for now and continue focusing on other characters who have a more neutral-focused gameplan (Rock, Robert, Ralf, etc.)?

[warped pine]

imo a dub doesn't ask whether it was a gimmick or neutral

do you want fundamentals or do you want wins? both answers are ok

[magic harness]

Does she tho?
I mean, she is pretty standard
Not many gimmicks for now

[grim crypt]

I mean you can learn neutral with characters you know now especially with Sylvie since she seems like a pick and play kind of character

[magic harness]

My impression of Sylvie is that she is pretty ||standard||
Kinda like Iori
She has a DP, ground fireball, big combos, moves fast, pressures...
Her cmd grab isn't broken or even a BIG part of her gameplan

I don't even know one gimmick for her
She got those easy safe jumps

Good confirms

Kinda easy to play

I mean, input wise

[grim crypt]

The only hard input she has is command grab I assume

[magic harness]

Yup
I hate that input

[grim crypt]

Me and you both lol

Their are two things I don't like about this game no dash blocking and Iori' command grab input

Because if I mess it up slightly I'll get super or dp

[magic harness]

Ohhhhh
True

[plush delta]

Agree, Sylvie seems pretty normal KoF. If you are good with KoF, you will be good with her cause her tools benefits from KoF standard style of play

[magic harness]

I'll have to learn Kof...
Smh

[split grotto]

Alright I need some lessons on how to get at the opponent with me dying in the process.

I've noticed I have a lot of trouble "getting to the opponent" to the point where it's easier to let them get to me and I get mixed into KOF16.

A lot of the times I try the thing that open me up and it doesn't work most of the time, like just run up 2A trying to catch a slower button, or trying to catch jumping recover frames.

So I guess any general offense tips would be good? Same with block pressure

[warped pine]

I got a question for Isla players, how are you SUPPOSED to play her? I'm doing either the spacing/zoning route or just all out rushdown? Am I doing it right?
Edit: and how do you deal with Kyo? She can't seem to block anything he does?

[grim crypt]

Spacing and rush down are her main strengths

You don't really wanna zone with her projectile it's not really made for that

[grizzled heart]

I say against Kyo w/ Isla you want to mainly play keep out

If Kyo isn’t rushing you down in your face he can’t really do shit, he has some good distance closing tools, like RED Kick and Ex Rekka

[warped pine]

CPU Kyo has some sort of grudge against Isla, he empties the entire bar killing her no matter the position 🤣

[sinful herald]

Depends on what your opponent is doing but her basic game plan is to get a free HKD with 214B and then make her opponent guess which side she will attack from

Her j.CD competes with Kyo’s imo

A trade is fine bc it keeps him out

[grizzled heart]

exactly

[sinful herald]

Her st CD is actually better imo super fast, long range and it moves her forward

The startup of her fireball checks jumps and hops plus I’m pretty sure it’s non reflectable (at least so far I haven’t tested everyone)

[warped pine]

In 3rd Strike announcer voice: That makes sense

[sinful herald]

The reason her mix works is because her hyper hop and short hop look almost identical so it’s super easy to fake a cross up into same side

She gets like 45% off 1.5 meter

If your opponent is super dialed on their AA normals she can 236C to make it whiff and punish hard on the descent

It’s still week 2 so I’m figuring a lot of stuff out

[sinful herald]

I learned that RED kick is kinda easy to trip guard yesterday lol

Does it whiff on crouchers? Cause it seems like it does

[warped pine]

Oh snap, I didn't even know she HAD 214B 🤣🤣
I was using CD for all forward movement 😀

[grizzled heart]

Need to lab

tfw counter pick

I’d say it’d prolly be better as like a screen approach tool than a straight up bonk KD move in this matchup

But she could still prob catch him maybe ?

Idk

I suck at this matchup anyway

[sinful herald]

So 214B on the ground is a combo tool, can be spaced for safety but up close it’s super punishable. Air 214B\D gives HKD

Grounded 214D is unsafe on block but has 4 different cancels depending on which button you press

That’s the thing about Isla she’s pretty committal, you kinda want to know what you’re gonna do before you do it

But she has hella mix

[warped pine]

the CPU hates her, Terry QM climax cancelled her lol

2b cancels right into her super 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[split grotto]

Let me ask this instead? Is pressure kind of universal and it something you just pick up as you play more?

[grim crypt]

yes

[split grotto]

Alright nevermind I feel a lot better about my performance now

Thank you for answering

[slate mica]

Sylvie gameplan:

• pressure with 🐬 / s.CD into 🐬 at mid-range
• j.CD to create space/ contest aerials
• occasionally use fireball to create pressure opportunities
• anti-air with dp
• anti-hop with 5A
• control opponent's rushdown with far.5D at half screen or longer
• score a knockdown and mix

She has, like, a million safe jump opportunities off qcf.B ender or supers.

Does this sound about right?

[sinful herald]

2B > 2A is the universal pressure starter

2B > 2A > frame trap

2B > 2A > safe special- you prob lose your turn here but it’s a good option if they are cornered or your special pushes them into the corner

2B > 2A > CD

2B > 2A > hop whatever

Are all decent options to play around with

[sinful herald]

Sylvie seems like season 1 Kula all over again. I fully expect anyone who uses her here to to get bullied to the point of dropping her

[grizzled heart]

hmmmmm… sounds like a similar situation to what happened to a very good friend of mine 🤔

[slate mica]

I was planning to play her as soon as I saw her new design 😦 Damn.

[sinful herald]

😹😹😹

It’s an inside joke

I was playing Kula in season 1. In my defense I picked her up within a week of release, so well before her buffs

When I arrived here let’s just say…I had to hear about it lol. A lot. I stuck with her up until SNK regionals in November and then promptly switched to Liz

[slate mica]

Oh, lmfao. I feel, I feel

[sinful herald]

Yeah play whoever is fun for you

[grizzled heart]

Yeah I bullied him

😈😈😈😈😈😈😈

[sinful herald]

You Oli Howl Trip Tricky Mac

Uhhh…think that’s it?

[sinful herald]

It’s cool tho now I just ||play matches with you|| using other characters

[grizzled heart]

Bro posted this at 4:20 am

[slate mica]

blaze + praise, y'all

[snow beacon]

This, regardless of tier and "bullying"

[sinful herald]

I had to beat the carried allegations

So I did

[snow beacon]

You did. Robert was also your best character imo, regardless of her being gross tier. I think it was a blessing you dropped her though. In those days, I feel she made you develop bad habits like yolo tatsus for your other characters. Since dropping her, you started playing safer and smarter.

[sinful herald]

Think that was just a function of having him up front but point taken and thanks. Also yeah she was safe on practically everything, small and had a huge 2B. Dropping her also made me realize I prefer damage over ease of use and Liz combos (and neutral) aren’t that easy

But quite satisfying to land

[slate mica]

I dunno much about Liz, but I know from her trials this is absolutely true, yee

[sinful herald]

I eventually optimized her routing but yeah it took me months to get her dialed in. In neutral she kinda moves like a tank, but that’s why she hits like one too

[split grotto]

@sinful herald let's continue this here

A lot of me backing off is from me not being most likely being unable to hold my ground for long. I don't mind blocking but I'm not confident in dealing with all the types of pressure people have

[slate mica]

You fight Heidern by applying pressure from dash blocking if he zones, right?

And then superjump when you predict a projectile?

[grim crypt]

yeah I'd say so

It's pretty easy to whiff punish heidern wince all of his buttons have a decent amount of recovery

so he has to commit a lot harder than most characters

[slate mica]

I was trying to adapt as Clark in a match earlier today and just absolutely had no success with anything else to approach

[grim crypt]

I think if you super jump with clark to get around projectiles you probably want to use J.d or j.b those shrink his hurtbox iirc

[snow beacon]

clark can also armor projectiles with 41236B as another option to slow down the pace, make the zoner impatient, and build meter

[grim crypt]

I could see that being option my only concern is that if you do that when they do light fireball they can probably punish the recovery frames of clark's grab

since where talking about heidern after light fireball he can follow behind and since his run speed is really fast he could probably punish

[snow beacon]

yes, this option is definitely character-dependent and/or their choice of fireball speed.

i like to use it as a way to bait some opponents towards me, defeating the need to play a side scrolling game towards the goal

...but again, depends on the char and opponent

[grim crypt]

Yeah for sure if you're fighting against someone who doesn't know to zone then it's not a bad option

[sinful herald]

Yeah this. Clark also loses initiative and most likely his turn doing this unless you’re full screen

[sinful herald]

I’m gonna sound like a broken record but just go in the lab and recreate situations and play around with how to deal with them. I’ve been playing since launch and only recently started doing this

It’s an absolute game changer if you want to get good faster

I only keep saying this because I don’t know exactly what’s happening in your matches. Just know that no pressure is infinite

|| except K’ in the corner lol ||

[grizzled heart]

… okay dude I thought it was just me but the K’ corner pressure is GODLIKE

[sinful herald]

It’s fucking broken is what it is

😭😭😭

[grizzled heart]

2. j.c block strings in a row and you’re getting guard crushed

[sinful herald]

There’s a couple things that work but they are big bets

[grizzled heart]

I do get a stun or guard crush on ppl all the time off corner pressure

That normal is INSANE j.C

It A2A like a light normal

W button

I ❤️‍🔥 K’ :•)

[grizzled heart]

He’s like S1 Kula pressure but higher execution

You have to guard cancel

[sinful herald]

You can back roll on a read and punish ein trigger

[grizzled heart]

Don’t tell them this

[split grotto]

I've relaxed now that I slept, one of the issues that have is working the "KOF zone" so use Liz as an example. A little bit closer than round start like the only options I have is 5D, maybe CD, and a hop or hyper hop. But I feel I don't get anything worth while off of the first 2 options, so I just default to hop. Since running up is too slow. So I lose a lot of situations here. And this is something I'd like help in

[grim crypt]

The point isn't to get a combo in the KOF zone it's more or less just defending your space

If you get an air to air situation great keep the offense going

[split grotto]

Alright, so one of the videos I remember you sending me talked about "Getting into a situation where your normals work. Because if you don't the opponent will" so I'm guilty of trying to force myself into that situation

Since a button like 5D doesn't force a knockdown or really anything when Liz uses it what'd the point of that button? I know her 5C "can be used for hops" but 2C is better so it's a similar question with that button

I'm probably overthinking it to be honest but I'm trying to get the use out of my characters other buttons I don't use. I'll be on after work and I'll probably get a video as long as the day goes alright

[slate mica]

You use a far poke to create space or gain a frame advanatge on hit to further press your offense

[grim crypt]

that's the trade 5D is a great poke but isn't special canceable or anything unless you have her mid where you can quick max off of it but that isn't sustainable imo

always fishing for the one hit isn't gonna get you that far

[split grotto]

Alright, I'm with that approach. But this game doesn't play like a "battle of a thousand cuts"(Zoners excluded) unless I'm watching and playing it wrong. Since about most characters seem like they about 3 touch unless they really have zero meter. Then it's just who builds meter faster and more efficiently

[slate mica]

Okay, here's a question. Why do I far.5C so often in neutral with Clark?

What does that cause you to do at round start?

[split grotto]

Does his 5C not go into command normal?

[sinful herald]

5D is a tool to poke out of pressure or to keep someone in the corner. CD is a great meaty, she also has routes off this as long as you’re not going coast to coast

And yes if you run at your opponent most will try and stop that, because a dangerous and deadly character is charging at them. Try running and stopping short by inputting run and immediately blocking. Do hop CD. Take up space. Observe what your opponent’s responses are and formulate a plan of action

I still need to see a round or 3 to get an idea of what’s happening

[slate mica]

Close.5C does. Far.5C does not.

[split grotto]

Ah thought it did

[slate mica]

2C does

But 5C has longer reach

So it allows me to control space from anyone who wants to run up at round start

It is primarily a defensive button to keep folks from setting up offense

[split grotto]

So I understand the concept of "a wall of hit boxes" to keep opponent at a position you want. But I want them fairly close to me because I don't have many tools to kill them that far away

Minus Joe and one "fire ball" from Liz

[slate mica]

Every character has a hyperhop

[grim crypt]

Make them come to you them

You don't always have to be the aggressor

[split grotto]

I've tried that a good number of times. And it does work sometimes but a lot of time I get opened up trying to get them on their approach

[grim crypt]

I think that means you're being to passive about then

Just like smoke said I'm gonna have to see you play again

[split grotto]

I'll be on after work today. So like at 3 EST or earlier

But I feel my play is either passive or predictable

[sinful herald]

I get you, putting out hitboxes like that isn’t to do (significant) damage it’s to take up space, observe the reaction, and ultimately buy some time to decide on an approach to commit to

Liz fireball is for hella plus frames btw. Do it as a meaty

[sinful herald]

A while back I actually sat down and wrote out “all” my options for starting offense with my 3 characters. Really basic stuff like “Run up low”, “Hyper hop D”, “Cross up”

Sounds corny as hell but I had an issue with doing the same thing (run up heavy) over and over, just banging on the front door lol. I’m not saying that’s your specific deal, just sharing what was mine

Anyway, I did that so I’d have a reference to look at in between rounds to force myself to cycle options. And that’s when I realized what people meant when they said KOF is a “system game”, because the options were pretty damn similar across my squad

Actually helped me understand defense better too. Might be worth a try

[split grotto]

So I guess I'll start with Shingo. Backdash Shingo kick, Shingo kick, jump Shingo kick, CD Shingo kick.

CD 236C, CD 214C, and then the system mechanics but I definitely don't hyper hop on purpose, same with cross up even though I know the button and roughly the spacing

Technically run up command grab

[sinful herald]

Nice. Condense it onto an index card or scrap paper and keep it where you can briefly scan it in between rounds

That’s what I did anyway figure out what works for you

[slate mica]

I've been up since 3 wondering how I got so bad. What the fuck do I need to do to improve at the level I'm at? I'll do ANYTHING. I'll fucking up my drilling to 2 hours a day. 3 if I've gotta. My reads aren't smart. My neutral is still shit. I'm dropping combos all over the place. What the fuck is wrong with me and how the fuck am I supposed to improve?

I feel like I'm going fucking crazy

[slate mica]

If you tell me to lock it in I'm going to scream

[torpid quarry]

You need to just play the game and stop being so overly critical on yourself for no reason. sometimes you just need to vibe it’s okay if you’re not playing at your best. You’re suppose to enjoy the game at you’re own pace not stress over your performance like it’s life or death.

High key Lou I understand you want to improve in the game and I say this respectfully you need to shut up and just play the video game even when stuff doesn’t go your way or you mess up because then that’s when I think ppl do their worst because they’re busy complaining and not LOCKING TF IN

https://tenor.com/view/nick-nickmercs-mfam-fazeclan-fazeup-gif-17795738

Also I’m pretty sure everyone has given you a lot of great advice and you surround yourself with all the knowledge on how to get better but if I’m being honest it takes awhile to apply

[slate mica]

When you get empty jumped once, that's a mistake. When you get empty jumped three times, that's on you.

[slate mica]

They have. And it's frustrating that I'm unable to put that into practice

Because I am trying. And then yesterday I get OCV'd twice in four matches

If I gotta shut up and play to improve, I'll do that. I'm just so frustrated that there are folks here who are improving super quickly and I'm still lagging behind like some starved tapeworm in a desert despite all the help I have recieved

[torpid quarry]

I fought tryhard rodeo and bubbles they ocv’d me back to back multiple times they still trashbins though they lucky I’m not a block spammer

Getting Ocv’d don’t really mean nothing

Pros get Ocv’d and they don’t give a fuck so why should you?

I’m always like “aight anyways next game”

[torpid quarry]

Maybe you focus too much on wanting to get really good instantaneously that you’re holding yourself back from passively improving

[slate mica]

I mean, there are folks who have joined in the past month, recieved advice, and are excellent now. Meanwhile, while I wouldn't say I've regressed, I wouldn't say I've improved. Idk if that's considered instantaneous, but I'm the only person who's been laughed at on stream since I start learning here

[torpid quarry]

And why does it matter that you’ve been laughed at on stream before? You focusing on negative little things like that really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme of your independent growth as a player you make it matter which messes you up more.

[slate mica]

If folks are laughing at you, you're doing something wrong

In my case, it was rolling too much and not holding pressure well. And I still suck at that.

[torpid quarry]

Then hold that shit by blocking, check them mash,ex shatter strike, guard cancel CD a good one. ppl roll out of desperation thinking they gotta get out of pressure or get that hit but more often than not it usually will come where you can get that hit or get out of that pressure.

[slate mica]

Yeah, I don't shatter strike

Like at all

That literally beats the empty jump, and I don't do it like a damn chump

Damn

[torpid quarry]

The OS Grab beats empty jump too

Like bitch get out of my face

Wackass mix

[slate mica]

God, I'm dumb. Lol

[torpid quarry]

On some yuri grab

[slate mica]

Yeah, OS grab is an easy input

Why the hell didn't I think of this before

[torpid quarry]

It’s not that it’s just that nobody realizes their options

I mash dp and use slow buttons to anti air

On defense

[slate mica]

Understandable

[torpid quarry]

Here’s the big counter to everything that anime fighters have taught me are you ready?

[slate mica]

Probably