KOF Coaching

[raven ridge]

For things like, running up who beats who first, press early

Not SUPER early but it's online anything favours the instigator always

But the Jim jam things like 1f landing or sprint blocking, I don't even think about that stuff because the timing is so tight and no chance I'm leaving 1f options to rollback/online

Idc if you're my neighbour and we have 30 ping

[spring relic]

Example: Blocked j.CD is + AF right?

Why can my opponent run up 2B, but if I do it I get braked by 2B and don’t get the frame trap?

[spring relic]

Best answer I’ve gotten so far. Thank you.

[raven ridge]

Hop CD n jCD apparently have different frame advantages. Idk how true this is but it's what I've heard.

Yeah the window is "generous" but to cover the distance, you still gotta be sharp af from the height you hit to the time you land

So that + advantage soon becomes like... +5 if you sleep a millisecond

So I do hopCD into another hopCD instead of the run up. Even in server matches, very seldom can I get the timing right

Whether that's a lack of XP on my end, timing, whatever it is. I have alternatives being another hop/jump/super jump into the cross up

[spring relic]

Again, thank you for sharing your mindset

It’s just annoying AF to have to respect my opponent’s advantage

To quote @runic rain “don’t press so much”

But the moment I get the advantage / + frames?

May as well not exist cause I get interrupted on most things

And that’s not accounting for the DP crazies

[raven ridge]

🤙🏼 happy to help. Definitely! But you see a lot of shit online, annoying shit, but it's shit either way n all we can hope for is we learn to deal with it in that short set, try a room match, n bring that shit to the server

[spring relic]

My main thing was confirming that I’m not insane

[raven ridge]

You are not insane. 🫂

[spring relic]

Respect

Cause yeah, granted I don’t grind for hours

But I clock my lab time

And when I’m able to drill these situations consistently, only for it to fall apart online

It leaves me with questions

Again, referring back to landing lag when I read the empty jump.

[raven ridge]

Go for the grab

Best: you throw.
Worst: tech

[spring relic]

Irony: the exact habit I’m trying to break for the sake of better punish & mix

[raven ridge]

Cien makes you learn quick LOL I can't dash grab like he can but I do the dumb jump/throw mix if I'm feeling cheeky and I've conditioned enough 😭😂

Feels good to put em in a throw blitz

[spring relic]

I remember one KOF match I won by doing run-up throw 5x in a row

[snow beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/respect-hat-cap-kid-gif-7551965

[spring relic]

How To Play Ash Crimson:

https://m.twitch.tv/clip/IgnorantBovineVelociraptorTheTarFu-_4Ex8CVfTKK0aiKc

[rancid marlin]

big oof

[sinful herald]

@rancid marlin @torpid quarry @mild parcel @snow beacon (anyone else that wants to chime in please feel free) something that’s been on my mind lately is: how are you guys timing your run up low/run up stop a pixel outside of throw range? The consistency is really nice and tbh I don’t see it much at all when I venture out into public rooms. What happens to me is either I come up laughably short or way overshoot into a throw. Any chance you guys can shed some light here?

[sinful herald]

How is everyone developing mix, whether it be in match or lab?

[mild parcel]

Yes just running up outside of throw range. 2b's aren't so short that you need to be a pixel out of throw range.

[mild parcel]

Coming from street fighter, utilizing plus frames is also one mixup

[rancid marlin]

Depends on what character I have. I don’t spend much time repositioning my character either. If I get a hard knockdown, I’ll go for it with strong faith they will be trying to wake up throw. I’ll go for that 2B. Simply stepping back just a smidgen and it’s more of something I do right as they are wakeup

Not sure I feel like online kinda lets you get away with certain shit

[rancid marlin]

As for the mix, cycle your options. I’m sure y’all seen me spam the slide with Kula as a troll? I’ll spam that shit and then literally hop. And mfs get hit Lol. Something as simple as this, condition them to expect something then do some other shit entirely

Or like Vanessa I’ll keep doing sweep and then weave

And then go for some other shit

[mild parcel]

Daru is explaining conditioning

[sinful herald]

Gotcha so does pressing a button stop the run? The 17 or whatever frames of “get nothing” is throwing me off

[sinful herald]

Interesting because it feels like it’s tougher to do online, especially with 1F invincible grabs

[rancid marlin]

I think you can “mix” them faster though, being a sneaky little mf. Overwhelming them with offense, and getting a knockdown and going for like empty low, or run up throw, something of this nature.

Taking an off the wall gesture kinda early on

[mild parcel]

Man, I CANT run up throw

[rancid marlin]

I can

[mild parcel]

Oh i know

[rancid marlin]

Thanks for blocking

[sinful herald]

Yes you mentioned this the other night and it’s had me thinking and trying to find setups after I’m plus off a couple light normals

[mild parcel]

https://tenor.com/view/blocked-message-heavy-tf2-gif-23992729

[mild parcel]

Yes, I don't know your examples but usually its a close stand light

This is +3. So there is no move you can do to stop the moves i throw out after.

Thats why I said last time to stop pressing when I do these moves, because on your end without knowing it seems like I'm just throwing randoms stuff out

And getting lucky

[rancid marlin]

Yep. This why Kyo so nasty cause bro can run up and jab you plus asf, and then go for an immediate low 3D into rekka or whatever tf. You have Yuri though who can do this exact same thing though. It’s what I do with these kinds of chars. Like Yuri I’ll legit run in do like 2B, 5A, or maybe like 2B, 5B, 3D, whatever. And then maybe like jab them and go for her standing throw not the run one. Knockdown, go for cross up, low, etc. She can get overwhelming, but the cross ups make her even more crazy

[sinful herald]

I’m still foggy on frame data and it’s holding me back so let me see if I understand here: if you’re +3 and I press a 4F normal does that mean it essentially takes 7F for my move to come out?

Which is why you can press a 6F move, like a 2C and win the exchange

[sinful herald]

Wait so do standing moves that whiff on crouchers, no longer whiff on crouchers if the first (low) hit is blocked? Thanks for the breakdown I’ve seen you do this a million times but couldn’t explain what I was seeing

[rancid marlin]

I’m sure Yuri won’t have this issues, Kyo either they are not that tall. Both of their 5As should hit after a blocked 2B. Regardless it can also be 2A, whichever is your preference. It’s easier for me to do standing normals after a low for confirms

[sinful herald]

If I do a move that has 5F startup and is +1 on block and then immediately press a move with 4F startup that is +3 on block how plus am I overall?

[snow beacon]

+3. It’s the last move that matters

[sinful herald]

Man math is either really hard or really easy in fighting games

[mild parcel]

No the opposite. You are +3, you are 3 frames AHEAD of your opponent. So the gap is 1 frame.

(Theres no subtraction type of stuff going on BTW)

I'll explain more when I get a chance

[snow beacon]

I just wanna clarify your statement: are you just following up your 5f (+1ob) into 4f (+3ob), and wanna know how plus you after after this pressure?

Or are you asking if P1 presses 5f then P2 presses 4f after block 5f?

[mild parcel]

In this case, its a trade.

Disregarding any hitboxes or other factors that come into play

This is all on paper of course.

[snow beacon]

Yes, that +3ob is not even a factor in this situation.

[snow beacon]

I can see why you ask that, but during that +3 block stun you are in, you cannot press a button, but they can. Once you’re done blocking, you can press your 4f move, but it won’t be active until 4f later. By then your opponent can beat that 4f move of your’s with a move that is 4-6f startup. A 7f move of theirs may result in a trade.

[sinful herald]

Yes this one, edited the original post to clarify

[snow beacon]

Then that player is +3 on block. There is no accumulated frame advantage.

[sinful herald]

Ok thanks so it sounds like the most plus I (or the other player) can be is +3 at max?

[snow beacon]

That +1 ob is negligible unless you wanna talk about gaps

[snow beacon]

There is no “at max.” It is absolute. You ARE +3 when they block that move.

[sinful herald]

Right apologies for not being clearer. What I meant was there is no such thing as +4 (or 5, 6 etc) only 0, +1, +2 and +3

And of course the inverse

[snow beacon]

Not quite. There are such thing as extreme ones like +10 oB and -30 oB. Every move has a frame advantage (+ oB) or disadvantage (- oB) that are predetermined by the devs. These numbers do not fluctuate.

What, I assume, might be confusing you is the close, neutral exchanges with the smaller numbers. It really just depends on what move is thrown out, and what SNK assigned their properties.

A simple exchange is blocking a dp, which is, let’s say, -30 oB. You have 30/60 frames (1/2 second) to punish it. If you try to punish it after that, the opponent has the ability to block your attempted punish. (I’m sure this is obvious to you, but I’m just explaining it this way in case a beginner reads it)

Inversely, Whip’s 63214B is +4 on block (because SNK). Now you have 4/60 frames to guess/read.

@sinful herald sorry if I’m not on the right page, but I’ll keep trying lol

[mild parcel]

Gotta start him with the basic.

Startup, active, recovery. The 3 things that make up a move.

[sinful herald]

Ah yeah that makes sense and I was totally omitting special moves and SNK being SNK lol. This makes sense

[mild parcel]

First 1 to 9-10 frames is the startup. How long it takes for a move to gain an active hitbox. Active is how many frames a hitbox is active (in this case the red numbers.) Recovery is how many frames after the hitbox diminishes and the end of the animation. @sinful herald

So the math that determines the + or - is the hit/block stun the opponent experiences that determins how much advantage you have over the them.

Advantage being who is actionable sooner.

[sinful herald]

Yeah I kinda got a better understanding of this in SF6 with the lab tools it has. Doesn’t recovery only really matter on whiff tho?

[mild parcel]

Nope

[sinful herald]

Also I believe blockstun is universal in KOF 15, as in hop CD has the same blockstun across the cast or cl.C etc etc

[mild parcel]

Youre still recovering from a move

[snow beacon]

Lol you right. I was lazy to explain the basics and made assumptions.

Thanks for the help

[sinful herald]

I understood startup and active already but the reminder is good so thank you

[mild parcel]

[sinful herald]

What’s tripping me up is recovery and + or - on block

[sinful herald]

I’ll see if I can find the chart

[mild parcel]

Recovery does matter more on whiff because there is no blockstun to take into account

[sinful herald]

Right this was my impression as well

[sinful herald]

From DC under the “Offense” section

[mild parcel]

Recovery isnt what you look at to see if a move is + or - because thats just technical stuff that doesnt take into account hitstun. Just how many rames it takes to act out after. BUT that's not always the case because some moves dont need to finish their animations and can be interupted. So yeah just worry about the + or -

[sinful herald]

Ok cool that makes things a lot easier

[mild parcel]

Yeah so worry about the moves startup and +/- frames

[mild parcel]

Yes I think all games may be like this, but still doesn't count specials

[snow beacon]

Yeah those are the numbers most people really look at and need.

[mild parcel]

Either way its the moves AROUND the blockstun that determine the frame advantage

[snow beacon]

If any of you find a video explaining frames. Post it here, and I’ll pin it

I thought I did, but nope

[sinful herald]

Right which is why Athena 2C > 214A feels like it has such stupid block stun compared to other stuff

[mild parcel]

Special cancelable

Many moves can be minus but are command or special cancel able

As you can see there's so many variables

[snow beacon]

More so in KOF than SF it seems

[spring relic]

• Depends on the opponent and what options they are showing.

• Being conscious of options; you may be much more predictable than you think you are.

• Pressure with lights to establish the math.

Also, friendly reminder:

DP’s are the “fuck your + frames” button

[sinful herald]

So far I’ve come up with:

-jump in
-empty jump low/throw
-Cross up
-run up low/throw
-walk up whiff punish mashing

I’m sure there are lots of others and lots of “sexy” tech out there but am mostly interested in developing off the basics, or foundational stuff for now. Interested in yours and everyone’s thoughts and opinions

[sinful herald]

Lol my point character has one and that’s it

[torn drift]

I’m not a killer and I’m seeing this very late

But my thing is have a focus and a goal

Yesterday I played mac 2 ft3 and I threw them both 2-0 to 2-3

But I finally learned to consistently use 1b 1a 4A with Vanessa

Before I would 2a2a 4A which would make me weave and all mid

If you’re focused on just improving or landing something specific, that becomes you’re goal

When you try your very best and focus the hardest on just winning

A loss becomes more tilting

Also play some good feel good music or whatever helps you

The OST can be great and I’m sure you all have favorite tracks but sometimes that’s too involved with the game. Playing music over it that you can relate/chill/get hyped too can help you out

[spring relic]

Thanks for sharing your perspective @torn drift

But I was looking more for MU perspective from the opponent’s side in order to figure out how to properly assess my sticking points

[torn drift]

Umm I’m not sure exactly what you mean by that

Wym by sticking points

@spring relic you mean like what you should do when in match or something

[spring relic]

What I mean is, trying to figure out if my opponent and I are assessing the situation the same way. And whether the answer is yes or no, what can I learn from that.

Example:

Situation 1 - I attempt run-in 2B, but get checked by the opponent’s 2B.

Situation 2 - Opponent attempts run-in with 2B, I try to check the 2B with my own but get clipped OR maybe even tagged with a cl.Heavy.

So question: why are these 2 situations not the same?

And to elaborate before even getting into situation specifics is, does my opponent even recognize the same situation? Or are they reading something different entirely?

And then if everything lines up, do I ultimately have to account for the difference in online delay?

See: Dolores EX Teleport —> Heavy tagging me on the backdash but you check the lab and replay with input history and that should not have happened.

[torn drift]

So you’re just wondering if others recognize similar or these situations in game and how they think about it?

[spring relic]

Cause yeah, when it comes to playing the situation I wanna know if my strategy is even in the ballpark

[torn drift]

Oh gotcha, tbh I’m not qualified to help you here. I don’t normally take this into consideration and blame everything on myself if what they just did to me doesn’t work for me I just assume it was my mistake and I understand that’s not what you’re looking for and this doesn’t help you. But yeah sorry I couldn’t be any help here

[sinful herald]

Not a killer but are we talking Ranked or Room because each one seems to draw specific types of players

[sinful herald]

This is me lately as well. Like right now I’ve been really trying to land low light confirms into my BNB’s (while still keeping a mix going of course). Sometimes I don’t hit one for several matches in a row but when I do I’m hitting the reward center of my brain and hopefully building that habit

Safe jumps were like this for a while too, now I’ll just watch a video and just try them in a match. But yeah overall having a goal helps a lot with the salt

[sinful herald]

There are some situations we (very unfortunately) can’t lab and this is one. This is where I go back to RPS and try and notice what my opponent wants to do. If they’re very adverse to blocking a different approach is necessary than run up low (this works on people who respect your mix). So in this case, run up > stop short > short hop into your best overhead beats their mash. And if I somehow get DP’d on a hop idc too much because it’s 80 dmg or whatever. If I’m right tho I get a full punish

[sinful herald]

Same as above, can’t lab this unfortunately. Could be lag, could be reaction times could be they had a superior read etc etc

Also can’t forget that sometimes we’re playing chess and they’re playing checkers. Also vice versa lol

[torn drift]

I can’t safe jump

[sinful herald]

Would thinking of them as one of your setups help? Because that’s all they are

[torn drift]

I just need to lab them more, with trying to figure out new combos and new characters set play kinda gets left behind

Which isn’t a good thing

[sinful herald]

Hmm maybe we have different definitions of set play; I always assumed thought it was a series of preselected moves aka the blender. There’s this Iori I play on the FT10 server that just loops this one particular set of moves and it used to destroy me (still does sometimes lol) until I watched the replays and labbed where the gaps were because it was just this infinite knowledge check 😹 Safe jumps are basically meaties afaik

[grizzled heart]

Interesting… link me the preselected moves thank you very much

[sinful herald]

Next time I play him and get OCV’d I’ll send you the replay lol. Tbh it’s kind of a stale approach imo, pretty autopilot-y and once I shake him out of it all he does is try to fish for another chance to start it again. Same for his other 2 characters

[torn drift]

Oh I guess yeah I don’t practice either sadly

Meaties safe jump or set play lol

[grizzled heart]

Sounds like me 🤡

[sinful herald]

Like I mentioned set play is kinda stale imo, it’s just a knowledge check and if they know your antics you’re up shit creek without a paddle. Learning how to actually play has done me far more than learning sexy ass setups/resets with Shun etc

Up to you how you want to play but meaties and safe jumps are instant level uppers imo

[torn drift]

I agree I’m slacking

[sinful herald]

Set play to me is just another way of saying, “I don’t want to think”

[torn drift]

I meaty by feel lol

Luong cl.d

[sinful herald]

I mean…lol that move is throw invul so your opponent has to block

You and Trip sorta blew the back out on that one

[torn drift]

We did what now

Trip maybe

I want no part of this

[torn drift]

She’s dropped don’t worry

Jk maybe idk

[sinful herald]

You guys both use it a lot which is why I looked up wtf was happening lol. It’s fine that’s part of the game

[spring relic]

https://youtu.be/z3tC-dHUaJM

[snow beacon]

https://youtu.be/H8W30Od53pY

[torn drift]

@snow beacon you seem the guy to help

How do I clean up my inputs

[snow beacon]

Hitbox?

[snow beacon]

What are you messing up? Links or cancels?

[torn drift]

I’m actually kinda decent at execution but I press my inputs too much like mash them

[snow beacon]

For linking normals, just double tap with a quick flick of your middle then index.

For special and super cancels, do the hold buffer.

Even with lights, do the double flick (idk if people call the plink or if that’s something else)

If you mash those lights, you might miss your special cancel

[snow beacon]

By now, you should know the timing and animation of your characters that you can flick those buttons with more precision.

[torn drift]

I normally do ok with specials and don’t mash them

But links/ chains whatever I do

And ángel Sideswitch 8b id the tightest link for me and I can’t hold it idk if that’s a skill issue

But idk maybe it’s timing

(I know that’s not a “link”)

[snow beacon]

Does that side switch require a dash?

[torn drift]

No it’s her hcf special

The special I don’t mash

The 8b follow up I can’t land without mashing

[snow beacon]

Can you execute this anytime during the HCF animation or is there a specific time?

[torn drift]

Normally angel does 2b (low lunge kick) into 66a (uppercut launcher) into Sideswitch up kick the timing isn’t generous per-say but it is fair and I don’t match that

However for this specific instance it’s 2b (low lunge kick) into Sideswitch up kick

Which has to be executed instantly

[plush delta]

@primal minnow @grizzled heart @meager portal please watch and rewatch this video

This will make you a better player guaranteed

[grizzled heart]

Okay

[snow beacon]

Is it possible to 412B 236X for the 2B into side switch then immediate 8B or 698B (doing a 720)?

[torn drift]

Side switch is 426b

So the combo would be cl.d 6b 2b

Into 426b 8b

[snow beacon]

Understanding Angel’s Unchain Sequence

[snow beacon]

I’d imagine this to be executed easiest on the hitbox. If you haven’t done drills in training already, I would. 8 and B on the hitbox are adjacent to each other (by default), yes?

[torn drift]

I don’t understand that last sentence

[weary schooner]

I think easy is meant to be each

[snow beacon]

Yup haha. I need my coffee.

[spring relic]

@torn drift I assume you’ve watched HitBox’s own execution guides?

[torn drift]

Ah

[snow beacon]

Idk, as soon as you hit 6B, let go of all the buttons immediately and slam that 8B. That’s the best advice I can give you really

Just try to make that 426B~8B one fluid motion

[torn drift]

Yeah I’ve watched some execution guide and as eljay always says “exaggeration” really helps me with mashing in all other scenarios including connecting 41236b into 8b just in this very specific one I’m having issues, it’s either mash or drop and I don’t like that

[snow beacon]

That seems difficult on stick

[spring relic]

He stole my word

[torn drift]

I have never thought of it like that. Maybe I need to consciously “slam” my 2b, lift off exaggerate my hcf b lift off an repeat for 8b

[runic rain]

@torn drift just use Pad like I do 🤣 Angel is very simple on Pad ☺️ JOIN US PAD USERS

[torn drift]

Id rather retire lol

[tacit ether]

I tried Angel on stick last night.

I was not a fan

My muscle memory is dead

[torpid quarry]

No don’t

[rancid marlin]

Fax bro over there hatin on pad using a ||hack|| machine

[torpid quarry]

Exactly bruh!

[torn drift]

Stick is the most fun of the 3

But I’m a pc gamer, keyboard is my shit. Hitbox feels the closest to that

[runic rain]

Idk all I know is that DS4 is easier on my carpet tunnel 💀

Stick, mixbox and keyboard tried them all and used them for years but no one told me HOW to handle to make sure Carp Tunnel doesn't develop

Got CT at the age of 16

[torn drift]

Damn that sucks. Yeah stick specifically your have to make sure you hold it properly or you can be seriously injured

As for keyboard? I always played with my keyboard tilted 90 degrees

Completely vertical

[rancid marlin]

That is still a WIP for me I’ve made lotta progress tho

[torn drift]

I’ve seen! You’re fertile my way between

[rancid marlin]

Yeah I use it once in a while imma use it all the way on SF6 that’s what I decided to help learn

[torn drift]

That’s hype

[meager portal]

Me and my pearl have become inseparable. I've used it to cross fizz and rait off my list.

Its my weapon of choice😤

I crossed off dunc while I was using analog stick jank

[rancid marlin]

How comfortable do you feel with it in general ? I’ve been using controllers my whole life so idk feel weird using that

[meager portal]

Once I got the controller, I went cold turkey on ps5 controller because I wanted the stick practice. I've gotten very comfortable with it

All the motions feel natural and I can hit my inputs a lot better now

I def think it's a preference thing, but I just like the feel and weight of it

[sinful herald]

Is 8B a command normal? If so the button hold trick will work

[torn drift]

No it’s an unchain special

Well unchain move

Her unchain specials are a different thing even though technically all unchain moves are a special move

[sinful herald]

Gotcha. So the button hold won’t work on them?

[torn drift]

But from what I can tell

[small haven]

@tacit ether How long have you been using Ash?

[tacit ether]

Two days

[small haven]

How does he feel to you?

[tacit ether]

I like him. His combo structure is neat and I like the Sans Culotte combos

I just throw fireballs and zone in game though

[plush delta]

Nothing wrong with that. That’s how I play Meiten for like 6 months before learning his combos

[small haven]

They made Ashs zoning slightly better but i still think its weaker compared to the other fireball characters

As far as combos go Ash doesnt have alot which makes it both easy and hard

its hard to zone in this game regardless so, to get the most out of him the long routines have to be down

Hes usable mid and can get good damage still but obviously more meter the better

[tacit ether]

Yeah, I've been using him anchor. My team is Angel/Ramon/Ash currently

[small haven]

Can you do the sans routines

[tacit ether]

Not in matches. I can't hitconfirm at all in this game

[sinful herald]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mTLIK-rMpIc

@magic harness

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m95zWFvinoE&list=PLZ7wg3lJm0-cu2A-s4IoJPnV_NkT9Ht7V&index=1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nFdusUQyFEk&list=PLZ7wg3lJm0-c8euYn9eAcz9b-U15KcaQO&index=1

[unreal forge]

Angel has very interesting inputs

I like

@torn drift what are angel bnbs i need?

[torn drift]

You’re really only need 2 main ones a close starter that you’ll probably need to land on whiff punish or a jump in. Angels j.c is a phenomenal cross up or her j.d and youlll need a low starter

2b 2a 46b 2a 6b 236c is her low starter

Cl.d 6b(1) 214c 2b 8a 6ab 66a 63214b is her main bnb

Learn these tie first then you can learn more advance stuff or even extend them

[unreal forge]

What is the (1)

[torn drift]

So if you see (1) or (2) that usually means the move is multi hitting and can be canceled out off

[unreal forge]

I did her trials they seemed like good combos

[torn drift]

Ángels 6b hits twice

[unreal forge]

Cool beans

[torn drift]

And if you let both hits go through it won’t combo

So I like to specify 6b(1)

[unreal forge]

5d 6b 3b 2c 236c was one that i did

Seemed good

[torn drift]

That’s also great but 214a/c has a lot more advance routes you can do

Just for example if you chose to do cl.d 6b(1) 214ac that’s a gaurd break. Or you can quick cancel 214a before the move ever comes out to do an instant 2p or 6b and you can also switch between 6b 2p on gaurd for a 50/50

But do what’s comfortable and don’t worry too much about the super advance stuff yet

[unreal forge]

When u say 2p do you mean 2a?

Sorry I’m still trying to remember notation for this game

[torn drift]

Does not really matter whether you use 2a 2c tbh

[unreal forge]

Oh i see

[torn drift]

Certain things don’t matter

Like 2p 8p but some do

Like 46b 46d

So when I give notations I do what I do like 46b 2a 6b 236c

However 46b 2c 6b 236c works as well

[unreal forge]

8p is a funky input

So are the 46 inputs

[lament mirage]

Doesn't Ryo have a 646 input?

I dunno how true that is

[tacit ether]

@torn drift We playing tonight?

[torn drift]

I’m editing rn but what game were you trying to play

[tacit ether]

I dunno

Maybe KoF, or maybe something fun like BBCF. I haven't decided quite yet

[torn drift]

I have a girlfriend

Can’t be talking to me like that

[unreal forge]

Mai doesn’t count as a gf

[torn drift]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-he-is-already-dead-stop-gif-5552043

That one made me laugh irl

[tacit ether]

I think I am done with Ash. The 2A link is too annoying

Wait, nevermind. I'm cracked. My hitbox was reading my inputs wrong

Oh my god. This whole time my hitbox was duplicating inputs

[torn drift]

And gray hateeeeed kof smh

[tacit ether]

I can do the climax combo pretty consistently now

My hitbox was making this game so much harder

What the heck

@plush delta I can't believe you call this a cheatbox smh

[torn drift]

Gray forgot to turn off double hax and use only normal hax

[tacit ether]

I didn't even know it had a mode to hold inputs

[unreal forge]

Yo what i hope my hitbox doesn’t have this mode

[spring relic]

I think everyone here will benefit:

https://youtu.be/Der3Otd8X0g

[lament mirage]

Oh he made a yt

Cool

[torn drift]

Do you have a normal hitbox? I doubt it

[grizzled heart]

The thumbnail is making me lose my mind LMFAO

[unreal forge]

I do have a normal hitbox

[torn drift]

Yeah I don’t think it has one

[unreal forge]

Yeah cool i don’t cheat like that gray guy

[tacit ether]

I have a Fightbox B1 and it has a toggleable turbo for some reason

My Hori has one too actually. I'm not sure why

[torn drift]

Gray was suffering from success

[tacit ether]

The weird thing is, it was only enabled in KoF

[unreal forge]

That is weird

[torn drift]

That is weird

[unreal forge]

Jinx

[torn drift]

lol I meant it like yeah that is weird agreeing with you

And my brain just realized we said the same thing

I owe you a soda

[unreal forge]

You shoulda capitalized the IS

It would have made sense

[torn drift]

That is weird

[unreal forge]

Even better

[torn drift]

You know what’s not weird and high key awesome

Manon

[torn drift]

So now does kof feel better

This scares me lol, but we should take this channel back to coaching lol

That’s my bad

[magic harness]

Marisa

[spring relic]

Be careful, I play on a stick and I accidentally had Turbo turned on one day (I blame my cat)

Anyway, because of that I wasted an hour trying to figure out how I lost my input accuracy like how Spider-Man suddenly lost his powers

[tacit ether]

Yeah that's what was happening to me. I lost all my sauce

[lament mirage]

@brittle imp

[magic harness]

SHERMIE WRITTEN GUIDE

For new players trying to learn her, and as reference for old players!
Please, bear in mind that I am no expert, and this is purely my view on the character and how I play her.

I'd say Shermie's whole gameplay is based on making your opponents scared of you, and afraid of doing what they usually do.
That is called conditioning

For example:

• A good anti air dp (623K) into super (4123641236P or 2×HcfP) will cause around 35% of damage, and probably make them think twice about jumping.
• If they spam fireballs, 214K (hcb K) goes through them. Do it enough times and they will try not to do it so much.
• They like meaties? Wake up command grab 41236P. Soon you'll see them trying other options. If they neutral jump, you wake up dp (623K). If they try to shimmy and take some steps back, run grab (41236K).
• They do something you think is punishable? 2B (Cr. Lk) into 214BD (Ex hcb K) into 623K (DP) will probably punish well and cause good damage.
• Make them afraid to air to air with j. CD
• After any command grabs, or bnbs that leave you close to your opponent, choose either DP HK (623D) or Run Grab HP (41236C). If they jump and you DP, you will hit them and cause a lot of damage. If they block and you Run Grab, same. If you guess wrong, you'll probably be punished, but it will still send a message. After you do the same once or twice, the third time they'll try to adapt and do the opposite. If you run grab 2 times, the third they will probably jump, and that's when you'll want to go for DP. So in the end of the match, after the climax or super, if you still need just a bit of damage to close the fight, this conditioning will be your salvation.

BNBs:
0 bars - C or D, 6B(1), 41236P, 236K
HP or HK, Fr. Lk(1), Hcf P, Qcf K
Good damage, leaves you close to opponent, switch sides

0.5 bars - C or D, 6B(1), 214 BD, 623K, 236K
Hp or HK, Fr. Lk(1), Ex Qcb K, DP K, Qcf K
Excellent efficiency, will probably be your most used bnb, doesn't switch sides

1.5 bars - C or D, 6B(1), 214 BD, 623K, 4123641236P
HP or HK, Fr. Lk(1), Ex Qcb K, DP K, 2×Hcf P
Switches sides, leaves you very far from opponent, but big damage

2.5 bars - Same as above, but 4123641236PP
BIG damage, switches sides and leaves you close to opponent

3.5 bars - C or D, 6B(1), 214 BD, 214 A, 2141236CD
HP or HK, Fr. Lk(1), Ex Qcb K, Qcb LP, Qcb Hcf HPHK
Climax combo without QM, I wouldn't recommend using it, but in case of need, when you forget you have the bar for more optimal combos or such, it's good to know

Other useful combos:
0.5 bars - 2B, f. B(1), 214 BD, 623K, 236 K
Cr. Lk, St. Lk(1), Ex Qcb K, DP K, Qcf K
Low light confirm, good damage and meter efficient

0.5 bars - 2B, 214 BD, 623K, 236 K
Cr. Lk, Ex Qcb K, DP K, Qcf K
Almost the same as before, but without the f. B(1) or St. Lk(1)
This can't be used as a hit confirm, but it's an amazing punish to a lot of moves from the rest of the cast

1.5 bars (Corner) - C or D, 6B, 214 BD, 623 BD, 236 K, 214 AC, 236 K
HP or HK, Fr. Lk, Ex Qcb K, Ex DP K, Qcf K, EX Qcb P, Qcf K
Slightly more damage than the 1.5 bar bnb, and leaves you close to the opponent, but harder to do

Quick Max Combos:
Most efficient way to start a QM combo would be C or D, 6B(2), QM
But can be activated with a low hit confirm 2B, f. B(2) easily too
Also from f. C as a punish or poke

2 bars - QM, C or D, 6B(1), 214 BD, 214 AC, 236 K
QM, Hp or Hk, Fr. Lk, Ex Qcb K, Ex Qcb P, Qcf K
Works on all positions
Wouldn't recommend using it, as it is very inefficient, but in case you activate QM on accident or you see you didn't have as much bar as you needed, it's good to know

3 bars - QM, C or D, 6B(1), 214A, 2141236CD
Works on Point
Slightly weaker than the Mid and Anchor one, but still GOOD damage

3 bars - QM, C or D, 6B(2), 4123641236P, 2141236CD
QM, HP or HK, Fr. Lk(2), 2×Hcf P, Qcb Hcf HPHK
Works in Mid and Anchor
Optimal Climax combo with 3 bars, easy to do, excellent damage and leaves you close to opponent

4 bars - Same as above, but 4123641236PP or 2×Hcf PP
Works in Mid and Anchor
Optimal, HUGE damage, leaves you close to opponent
You should go for this if you play Anchor Shermie, as it's the hugest damage she can get from a combo

Set Ups:

• Sweep (2D or Cr. HK) into whiff (214D or Qcb HK) to appear behind them and then command grab (41236P or Hcf P). If they start backdashing or back rolling, run grab (41236B).

• After hitting 214K or Qcb K, you can empty normal jump and command grab (41236P or Hcf P). If they backdash or back roll, run grab 41236B.

• A blocked CD into 214D or Hcb Hk puts you behind them and can lead to either a bnb or run grab (41236B or Hcf Lk) depending if you think your opponent will block or not

I guess that's it on basic Shermie
In the end, Shermie is all about mind games
And guessing
You never know for sure what your opponent will do
Even if you scare them a lot, sometimes they will be bold and do it again
Shermie is REALLY punishable for any mistake
So sometimes it's better to be a bit more careful and play safe

She has good buttons in neutral
Her 2C or Cr. Hp was nerfed this patch, but is still good if you are doing it on reaction for both anti airs and checking dashes
And don't be predictable
Don't do one set up too many times without variables, or they will learn and punish you HARD
Thank Orochi her damage is GOOD
So you probably won't ever have to repeat strategies too many times
Two or three that go in, if you have the meter, will most probably kill
I play her in Anchor because of her ridiculous damage, but she does work VERY well in Point and Mid due to her efficiency in using bar
It's really up to you and the rest of your team
Hope I helped with Shermie!
And have fun!
🙂

@primal minnow @lament mirage @unreal forge @plush delta

[unreal forge]

Holy lord

Thanks for this

[magic harness]

Idk if you still want Shermie on your team
But I hope to help
🙂

[unreal forge]

I have pivoted back to shermie

[magic harness]

Take it slow, no need to memorize all that at once
Come back to check whenever you need
🙂

[unreal forge]

I screen shotted it

[magic harness]

You can always ask me if you have any questions
🙂

Wow
I use that emoji too much
I did it like 4 times in a row without even noticing

[weary schooner]

Thanks for this! I'll give this a proper look over later, but this is gonna be useful for me!

[craggy gyro]

is setting the training dummy to random block the best way to practice frame traps

[torn drift]

@sinful herald may have the best answer but I think you just set the dummy to reversal

Record a reversal like mash 2a or something and as soon as the dummy can press it will

Same for dps to practice safe jumps

[craggy gyro]

gotcha

[torn drift]

I hope that helps

[sinful herald]

What Howl said. Any 4F (non invincible) reversal will do the trick. Have the dummy set to random guard and reversal all as that will trigger the mashing (or whatever) on block and hit. Also a good way to find out if your pressure is real or not

Just make sure the “Reversal” notification pops so it comes out on the first frame possible

[craggy gyro]

thanks!!!

[torn drift]

Ooh @magic harness you said something about not knowing if you can use unchain Enders after back roll?

[magic harness]

Yeah, I thought the unchain back roll was some kind of ender

[torn drift]

No it’s an unchain special

You can do it after you have done an unchain mid or 2 but it does lead to ender

Think of your very basic bnb

Close HK FrLK(1) QCB HP D.LK U.LP (Fr. LP+LK or roll) into Fr.Fr.LP ender

The forward roll, the back roll, or roll in place all have the same properties and can only cancel out to an ender

You can do so many shenanigans with this

[magic harness]

For some reason, I thought Fr. LPLK could be used in combos, but Bk. LPLK couldn't

[torn drift]

I like doing in mid/full screen either command run or qcb hp into forward light kick unchain which does 2 things, can jump fireballs, or if close enough overhead an opponent or just get you closer, then you can roll back when they try to hit you, and you whiff punish with forward forward kick ender which is hard knockdown

Or even super unsafe but it works is command run, down kick (this alone travels Angel almost full screen and can low profile some projectiles) into forward roll qcf hp grab

It works more than you think opponents won’t expect it but it is superrrrrrr unsafe

[magic harness]

That's what I saw you doing yesterday!
I will be sure to lab that

[torn drift]

Yeah! It’s super fun

[magic harness]

That's cool!
Never thought of that

[torn drift]

Angels Twitter bio is just “ We do a little trolling”

You can also go crazy with it as the roll is invul, like blockstring into roll in place (your opponent will try to gc hphk or poke you or punish you) and you can cancel out of the roll point blank into forward forward light punch which is her launcher and gets your air combos going

You can also space yourself out to get a checks unblockable or whatver you want

[magic harness]

That is AWEASOME
I only used it to bait dps
Lol

[torn drift]

Ángel has no completely safe completely guaranteed tools so we freestyle out here

[torn drift]

That works lol

[magic harness]

That's actually the most fun about her

And the climax

[torn drift]

Sadly I’m a point angel

[magic harness]

Me too
Lmao

[torn drift]

It’s ok because we get luong clímax

Luong also mad fun with her space control and cross ups

[magic harness]

I haven't been able to figure out how to cross up with her yet
Lmao
My timing is shit

[torn drift]

You can do two things

Jump lp and have you opponent block, then you qcb hk

That’s her air flip kick and it’s slow af but after the block hit you cross up

That’s all it leads to though but it is frustrating for your opponent to successfully block a jump in (a bad one at that) and then get punished

Or you just try to jump over your opponent with full jumps or hyper jumps and qcb lk in the air that crosses up

Then you can follow up with qcb k ex in the ground for full combo

[magic harness]

That's what I haven't been able to do it!
I was trying with Hk not Lk

[torn drift]

Hk doesn’t lead to full combos

Yeah it took me a while because that jump lp block is soooooo good

But light doesn’t cross up after the block heavy does

So the muscle memory took a bit

Also you can actually use that as a mix up, if they block jump lp you can do light flip to hit same side and combo if they try to block the cross up

[magic harness]

That is cool!
I might try Luong in the near future

[torn drift]

Under #1021188052032421959 there’s a pinned combo with almost every ángel luong and Vanessa you’ll need. Just click the people icon top right and there should be a pin icon

Sadly they’re all using numpad notation but if you need me to write out any specific ones into sf notation I’m more than happy to!

[magic harness]

I'm actually learning numpad notation!
I used it to write Shermie's guide here
And I think I'm starting to get more used to it

[magic harness]

But thank you!
Will take a look

[torn drift]

Yeah no problem any questions or anything feel free to ping me

Not saying you’ll main her but ángel luong and Shermie will be a hassle to deal with lol

[magic harness]

Lol
O. Shermie has some big competition with me trying to learn so many chars

[torn drift]

good the less shermies the better

I mean, oh yeah no for sure whatever is fun for you!

[warped pine]

So Blue Mary, once she gets started is there a way to stop her vortexing or do you just sit and take it?

[spring relic]

She is Blender Mary for a reason

If she wins neutral in some way, a good BM is gonna make you guess

[plush delta]

Raitguy starting to get sweaty I see haha

[spring relic]

But Blue Mary has to take risks, so if you can coerce her into doing something unsafe which I believe damn near all her specials are then you’re golden

[warped pine]

not being able to move for an entire round does something to me 😂

[warped pine]

That's my question, guessing what? Is there a correct answer?

[spring relic]

There is a reason it’s called a 50/50

It’s the right answer if you read the right option and call her out

If you don’t and she catches you, you were wrong

Most basic example: do you think she is gonna use M. Slicer?

[plush delta]

The correct answer is you don’t want your opponent to control the pace and spacing. Make her play your game and not the other way around. This goes for a lot of characters

[warped pine]

Ok so the 50/50 time is before she gets started? Once she does it's over?

You know what I mean, when the EX moves are launched one after the other

I don't know of any gaps

[spring relic]

https://youtu.be/TYscIoc2d4E

[spring relic]

Typically, special moves are considered “Enders” after normals. So you wanna look for what BM likes to do after pressing Normal buttons. Does she go for Slicer? Breaker? A hop-in?

That’s what you gotta guess / read based on opponent habits

[warped pine]

Once you guess wrong, is that it?

Is there another chance?

[spring relic]

Depends on position, bar, and your health

But that’s FG’s

[warped pine]

If i'm in the corner and she gets started with 5 bars it's over?

[spring relic]

You win neutral, get your combo into HKD, and now the opponent has to guess what you will do next.

[warped pine]

If that's the case, fine. I just want to know if that's the case

[spring relic]

💯

That’s the whole point of an Anchor / 3rd position

You want them coming in with as much meter as possible so all they gotta do is 1 or 2-touch the opponent to delete them.

[warped pine]

I think I've been playing overly defensive with BM, thinking I can recover if I screw up in blocking

[spring relic]

Also, to be clear, BM “getting started” means she HIT you

If you block her, then you’ve created an opening and she has to take a risk to get back in

[warped pine]

No I mean hearing the EX sound and you being frozen for the 5th time in a row 😂😂

[spring relic]

Or you punish her for doing something unsafe and risky

On a basic level, Clark is the same character with Argentine Backbreaker

[warped pine]

So it's basically a Clark situation, the way to 'beat' the situation is to never get into it

[spring relic]

On HKD you gotta guess if he is gonna go for that

If he does, and you neutral jump, he is screwed

But if you just sit there or try to roll or press a button you’re F’ed

[spring relic]

Or you read the right move based on the opponent’s habits

And that’s the game

You gotta accept that you are never gonna be right 100% of the time

Happens to everyone and sometimes you’re gonna get got. The goal is to minimize how often that happens.

[warped pine]

To me that means I ain't blocking her anymore. I'm emptying the bar and going out in a blaze of glory. 🤣🤣

[plush delta]

Clark can’t kill you though with 5 bars

[warped pine]

I think once the blender has started, he doesn't even need 5 bars

but... I know I can try jumping, shatter striking etc

[plush delta]

He needs to guess numerous times

And so do you

[tacit ether]

Vortex my beloved

[warped pine]

so back to my original question, are there any gaps to even try to guess when Blue Mary is EX grabbing and slicing in a loop?

not before - during

[plush delta]

I don’t know Mary as well but during the loop, are there any hkds?

Or is it one complete combo string? Cause she can do major damage with just one combo unlike Clark

[warped pine]

That is my question

[plush delta]

Post the video

[warped pine]

I'm hop into ranked, I'm still in 16-20 so it shouldn't take long to find an example 🤣

[plush delta]

That looks like just one combo to me. I know trip has done that to me numerous times

There may be reset situations and that is where you have a chance to guess

[plush delta]

You should have a replay saved in the replay section

[rancid marlin]

@warped pine I don't fully know what you were trying to ask cause I kinda just skimmed, but I see that you're having issues against Mary.

She is a finesser with a lot of tricky shenanigans, but a lot of her stuff can be called out

[warped pine]

and just to make it clear I'm not talking about Dyl's BM, his has gaps 🤣

[rancid marlin]

They all do lowkey

[warped pine]

That's what I'm asking for

[rancid marlin]

What's your team?

[rancid marlin]

Cause both her special grabs, the stand counter and the leap grab you can vertical hop or jump them and blow her up

[plush delta]

If you are blocking and she does 4/6B there is a gap between the 2 hits

[rancid marlin]

A lot of them will go for like her 2C into the leap grab, cause her 2C is whiff-cancellable.

Or maybe like 2a 2a

then

[warped pine]

I found a replay... I'll post it soon

[rancid marlin]

yeah

[spring relic]

@warped pine If the BM you’re fighting is using multiple EX’s and you’re blocking, every blocked EX is a punishable gap you can exploit

So just sitting there and taking that is on you

[warped pine]

I knowwww! That's what I'm trying to fix 😅

[plush delta]

When did you start blocking anyways? Lol

[warped pine]

https://tenor.com/view/shh-secret-chris-pratt-silence-dont-say-gif-17543341

[torn drift]

You got me sick

[tacit ether]

[torn drift]

I’m dying over here now

[warped pine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMEUGtkNzTM
Ok here it is. What did I do wrong? Especially with Liz

I know I made mistakes leading up to it, but I'm asking about when my character's body is flopping in the air like a fish 😂

[torn drift]

You throw projectiles and ex projectiles almost point blank

Easy punished that BM did eat off of

You also gotta make sure you’re aware of their shenanigans

That bm jump grab shouldn’t be hitting you that much in neutral it’s too slow, you can block low against BM for the slicer toe check and 2c when she jumps at you or roll away

[plush delta]

You have multiple chances to take your turns in the match

[torn drift]

You also got scared of her, she beat you in the corner when you escaped instead of pressuring her, you ran away. She whiffed a huge dp and you were to far away

[plush delta]

There is only one true combo she did in the match which she did once against king and once against Elisabeth

[torn drift]

When you’re low on health you need to speed up the match. Attempting to play slow and zone or neutral will usually cause you to trade or get health chipped away. If you’re low go crazy, your character is more than likely dead as it is. Unless of course you’re both low than that’s a different situation

[rancid marlin]

You did not block on wakeup a lot of the time she ran up cl.C. Also when BM knocked you down she would often go for leap grab, this is common grappler tactics, they will try to grab you on wakeup cause you will (maybe) sit still and block. You can wakeup vertical jump/hop this and punish. At the end with Elizabeth you escaped the grab with roll, but got punished for close up projectile.

[plush delta]

You also got caught pressing buttons when she did CD and when she meatied you

Time to get sweaty and actually learn neutral defense instead of pressing buttons and specials 😉

[warped pine]

I'm still learning Liz too, so throwing point blank projectiles is bad. Duly noted 😅

[rancid marlin]

With King, zone her to death, but space accordingly

Anti-air her Spin Fall as well

[warped pine]

I wouldn't go that far Oli 😅

[sinful herald]

Great video thanks!

[plush delta]

This goes for all characters unless you are catching them on wakeup and even then there are other options

[plush delta]

She cannot go under venom strike? I did not know this

[rancid marlin]

Nah I was wrong it was Kula I think not near PS rn

She can slicer under the Venom Strikes I believe

[warped pine]

You're right I wasn't blocking. I was going down the list trying stuff:
Shatter strike? No
Guard cancel? No
light punch/kick? No

The right thing to do is keep blocking

[rancid marlin]

Regardless, she has to work to get in

[plush delta]

Yeah it wouldn’t make sense for her to not be able to slicer under venom strike haha

[rancid marlin]

I was playing Kula and couldn't slide under I got confused

[rancid marlin]

Depends though, cause she got grabs. It's really gamble for you both

[plush delta]

She was doing a meaty on your wakeup. You can try doing wakeup throw but if they’re doing the meaty correctly then you’re getting hit. You can learn the wakeup throw OS though

[warped pine]

Ok and that's where the 50/50 also comes in, the common guessing game of what's next on wakeup

[sinful herald]

Hard to say without inputs turned on but you either weren’t blocking on wake-up or you pressed on wake-up with both King and Liz. With Liz you really don’t want to be throwing projectiles in neutral unless they are far away, don’t have one of their own and you’re using the EX version so you can move the projectile around. Regular version is really good as a meaty for their wake-up because it has a lot of block stun and her recovery is fast

[plush delta]

Well your opponent has an obvious tell here. If they ran up next to you, they were doing the meaty. If they stayed at hop distance, they were doing the hop grab

[sinful herald]

Also Liz is a high damage character so it’s best to play neutral until you get the hit and then unload 2 or 3 bars into your opponent

You won’t win a fireball war or keep out game with her, or you can but you’re gonna work way harder than you should

[plush delta]

Yeah Liz isn’t a mash unga character so I’m surprised you picked her

[warped pine]

I'll give anyone an audition... except HIM 🤣

As you can tell, this will be my next point of emphasis. Thank you all

[plush delta]

What is? That you won’t unga?

[warped pine]

vs Blue Mary

[spring relic]

Hey, if it helps @warped pine

[warped pine]

I don't mind taking losses for mashing, but I want to participate in the match 🤣

[plush delta]

@meager portal you should try to pattern your Blue Mary neutral similarly to rait’s opponent here. It’s not the best but it’s a good start for you to learn her pressure tools

[small haven]

Besides not blocking on wakeup its good knowledge that you cannot be thrown for a certain amount of time on wakeup (5 frames i think) or more. They would have to do something first to kill frames (pass time) before they actually can grab you. So usually its like : Button (or whiffed button), button, Grab.

They know your scared of the CM grab but they cant do it immediately, use that knowledge to your advantage to predict when they will attempt it. And even then they may not, thats why its a mixup.

But unless you waking up Dp, just block first

Or back roll

Oh also backdash, backdash puts you in the air on frame 1 so its also a good defense for cm grabs, so if you get hit it’s only an air reset low risk

[magic harness]

@torn drift
I started the combo with
Cl. D, 6B, 214C, 2B, 8A, 6AB, 66A
46D, 8B, 66C, Cl. D, 41236B

[torn drift]

Yeah that’s the combo

[magic harness]

This resets and sideswitches
But also leaves you close enough and plus enough to go for Cl. D again

And restart the same combo

[torn drift]

But close d is blockable either low or high

I guess I just trust my opponent to block the Sideswitch every time

[magic harness]

It is
But you'd be surprised by how many people just don't
Oli included
Like 6 times in a row

[torn drift]

That’s wild

I guess I just always go into the mindset that my opponent is always better than me

So I try working harder and getting more complex

I wouldn’t have disrespect someone enough to just straight up cl.d lol

[magic harness]

I think you did low on me
But I thought you knew you could just restart the same combo again and again

[torn drift]

So I guess I never thought about it since it’s easily blocked

But I need to start doing it, then adapt to the 50/50 if they block instead of not using it at all

Like Daru has blocked the Sideswitch overhead into low into double low and the second overhead is what got him, so against him that close d would’ve gotten ate up

[magic harness]

Yeah, his reaction time is unreal

[magic harness]

I need to actually adapt instead of always going for the Cl. D
It's safe, so even if the opponent blocks, I just keep pressure on the corner

[torn drift]

Also angel 66c raw combos I never do because people here will never let me get away with them but that’s another thing that works extremely well with people not so familiar with the MU

But I like playing people who stop my stuff

[torn drift]

You can Sideswitch 6b overhead into throw then simply do the corner loop I did against you lol

[magic harness]

Yeah, I don't think anyone has ever not punished me for that
And it works SO MUCH in ranked

[torn drift]

That corner loop does no damage

But boy is it fun lol

[magic harness]

I don't even know wtf even happened there

[magic harness]

It did to two of my chars
Lmfao

[torn drift]

Lol you can reversal it, dp it, roll away or jump but only against the low starter if you jump and she 6bs she gets combo

[torn drift]

Landing it after seeing people try to adapt is so funny but I feel so bad

Especially when you not only mix up your high low, but also your timing

[magic harness]

LMFAO
You shouldn't
I laughed so hard when I rewatched

[torn drift]

When they block right, but you delayed it and they switch guard too fast is the funniest things

It looks frustrating to deal with

[magic harness]

It is
But that's the best part
Lmao

[torn drift]

Condition them to guess where you’re going, if they don’t keep hitting them, if they do switch your timing. They have to be fast to stop it initially but then you can make them to fast to where they still get hit even after guessing right

[magic harness]

You are a demon

I'll try to do the same

Lmao

[torn drift]

Lol nah people are just so much better than me so I overcompensate with gimmicks and smokescreens

[magic harness]

Nah, you are actually very good

[torn drift]

If it wasn’t for the cross ups and ángel shenanigans I wouldn’t hold a candle to oli, bubs, or Mac much less Daru

[magic harness]

That's the point
You really studied and know Angel
That is no small feat

Plus, your Luong and Mai are also strong

Not as much, but still enough

And I am also carried by Shermie
Lmao

[magic harness]

Hey @torn drift
Trying to do the corner loop you did on me
What if I had just miraculously guessed and blocked both the low and the overhead?

Are you just extremely unsafe?
I think we can try 6A overhead into the grab to continue the loop

[torn drift]

I can spin in place and hit an ender or grab you

Or loop lows

[magic harness]

You could also go for back spin and 66C

[magic harness]

Probably good for catching DPs?

[magic harness]

HEY
This same combo
You can also just command grab

Instead of Cl. D, low or overhead

Lmfao

[torn drift]

Yes or 66D

[magic harness]

But that's blockable and not an overhead anymore, right?

[torn drift]

Yes it blockable now but relatively safe I think now

So you can always just use it for spacing or roll back 4AB

Into another command run

[magic harness]

Right...
Am practicing that loop rn on training mode with random guard

[torn drift]

Hope it helps you!

As to answer your question

[torn drift]

Yes I’m always extremely unsafe

I left safety when I was born

[plush delta]

You’re gonna be as bad (good) as howl with your angel

[magic harness]

It sure is fun to pull of
Lmfao

[plush delta]

Use it against howl

[magic harness]

I'll think of a setup he still doesn't know with Angel and catch him off guard

[plush delta]

I’m sure howl has tried to think of all the possible angel setups already but he’s distracted with sf now so might be a good time to catch him off guard

[magic harness]

Right!
I'll do my best!

[plush delta]

Btw I have been thinking. You don’t really do hops but then none of your main team really needs to use hops - angel and both shermies benefit from doing their crossups

[magic harness]

Idk how to hop consistently
I do it sometimes, but it's rare

Shermie does benefit from hopping
J. C is a huge hop pressure tool
Specially because it also crosses up, so also a mix up

[plush delta]

I think you need to hop with geese

[magic harness]

But I'm still a SF player at heart
There is only one true jump in my view

Lmfao

[plush delta]

Which is why I feel, at least for me, geese is the easiest matchup from the ones you play

Since there is no hop threat

[torn drift]

She’s already better

[magic harness]

Yup
My pressure with him consists in his safe specials, and low or overhead finishers

[plush delta]

It’s funny cause both you and howl don’t hop consistently. The other top guys like Daru and Mac and smoke and bubbles all do and that’s part of what makes them so good. While you and howl rely on mixups and setups and frametraps

[magic harness]

I play kinda defensive with him tbh
I try to parry too much

[plush delta]

Yeah I learned to just block instead of challenging the specials after the first match against him

[magic harness]

Same with Yamazaki
I do exactly the same

But with better damage
Because Yama

[plush delta]

Except yamazaki pressure tool is much stronger and much safer

[plush delta]

Yep. He’s super strong with continued pressure

[magic harness]

But I should hop a lot with him too
And I just...
Don't

[plush delta]

Buffs made him safer too

[magic harness]

Idk how to consistently hop mostly because I put too much strength on my hands while playing

My controller suffers sometimes

[plush delta]

As I said, if you stick with your main team, you don’t need it as much. Billy doesn’t need it as much either since you zone with him

[plush delta]

You use pad?

[magic harness]

Yup
PS5

[plush delta]

I’m learning hops but I realized I don’t need it as much with Athena with how I play her plus it’s better to do the jB crossup

[magic harness]

A stick here in Brazil is just too expensive for me...

[plush delta]

But Clark and Meiten needs hops to start their combos

[magic harness]

Hitbox even more expensive for some reason
I'd probably have to import it

[plush delta]

Come to evo and buy one there

[magic harness]

A flight ticket to the US would probably cost my kidney

[plush delta]

That’s easy, just win your regional tourney and have them sponsor you

[magic harness]

The back spin also leaves you in range for a sweep that could be canceled into the run or even hcb Lp for pressure

[magic harness]

You're right!
Should be easy enough!
Lol

[torn drift]

Exactly

[torn drift]

@mild parcel

How do you play Leona in neutral

I just keep going for j.c but that ain’t it

[mild parcel]

F.A, CD

[torn drift]

Far A?

[mild parcel]

Yup

[torn drift]

Then what

[mild parcel]

Its even on block to you cam do sweep or bait a whiff punish with cd

[torn drift]

Ah gotcha

[mild parcel]

Wait, i thought you quit

[torn drift]

Yeah

[torn drift]

I’m playing for Leona tbh, but only ranked

[mild parcel]

"Playing for Leona"

[torn drift]

[mild parcel]

:ignored:

"Quit" kof but still playing ranked

And not playing us? Very disrespectful.

[torn drift]

I’ll play Daru

[mild parcel]

Why him only?

[torn drift]

And Mac because they’re the homies

[raven ridge]

😎

[sinful herald]

And smooooooke

Right?

[spring relic]

Just wanted to share the answer I got to a typical KOF problem:

Andy elbow is -5

But because muh pushback it isn’t punishable

The lesson? Raw frame data doesn’t tell the whole story

[meager portal]

As far as I'm concerned, Andy elbows are safe 80% of the time

[warped pine]

Andy elbow spam is fun af, I may borrow your character more often 😅

[sinful herald]

It is, just not by much but can definitely be punished by 4F specials/supers that move the character forward

[spring relic]

Hah! Thanks for the clarification

So to add to my previous point

Why it’s also important to know your numbers haha

KOF be weird like that, where answers can be somewhat indirect

[sinful herald]

It’s kinda crazy how many knowledge checks like that are in this game. I hate it when I don’t have the answer mid match but it feels so so SO good when I do

[spring relic]

It’s the ironic flip side to “KOF is a system game”

Cause yeah, “just play KOF bro”

But not knowing character specifics will get ya smoked

[magic harness]

OROCHI SHERMIE WRITTEN GUIDE

For new players trying to learn her, and old players trying to beat her
Please, bear in mind that I am no expert, and this is purely my view on the character and how I play her.

O. Shermie is a very well rounded character that can be played in various different ways. She can be a zoner, she can be rushdown, she can be a setup character, and she can be a powerhouse anchor that will 2 touch with enough meter to spend.
The biggest problem with having all that, is that she doesn't actually excel in any of it.

She can be out zoned by Athena, King and other true zoners, as her projectiles don't hit full screen. Her rushdown is good and mostly safe, but relies on lighting kicks (214K) that are minus on block. Her setups are good and can provide lots of 50/50s but they aren't nearly as elaborated and hard to react as Angel for example. And even though she can 2 touch with enough bar, actually getting in to do so is harder with O. Shermie than regular Shermie.

The secret to playing her well is to know your options and mix them up depending on your opponents. If you're playing against Terry, don't try to get in and fight him from close distance. If you're fighting Athena, don't try to zone.
Pay attention to your opponent, and see what he struggles the most against. Some people don't do well against pressure, some people can't react to setups, and so on.

Another super important thing is a bit of mind games. Not as heavy on it as regular Shermie, but make sure to scare your opponents.
Athena and King can out zone O. Shermie for sure
But if you start using 214C to nullify their projectiles and throw yours, they tend to stop zoning, thinking you have the tools to actually beat them in it.
Her pressure can be easily interrupted, but if you do one or two frame traps or bait a DP with her dive kick, they tend to stop doing it and make your pressure safer.
As I said, O. Shermie doesn't excel at anything. But make your opponent believe you do, and they'll actually switch to a gameplay O. Shermie can deal with well.

BNBs:
0 bars - Cl. C or D, 6B(1), 214B
Good damage, good corner carry, kinda safe on block. Not actually safe, but I can count on one hand's fingers the number of times I was punished for it. You can jump or hop after it to continue pressure. Or just run low. Or jump and dive kick (236D) to confuse opponents

0 bars - Cl. C or D, 6B(1), 214C
Same damage as above, but completely safe on block. The problem with this is that it pushes back so much that you cannot continue pressure after it

0.5 bar - Cl. C or D, 6A, 236BD, 214D
Good damage, hard knockdown, allows for setups, but unsafe on block

0.5 bar - Cl. C or D, 6B(1), 214BD, 214C
Good damage, leaves the opponent very far from you. Good for when you want to zone.

1 bar - Cl. C or D, 6B(1), 214BD, 214AC, 214D
Amazing damage, hard knockdown, allows for setups and relatively safe on block. This is my go to bnb when I don't want to spend too much due to the cost effectiveness.

1.5 bar - Cl. C or D, 6B(1), 214BD, 214C, 236236P
Very good damage, easy to confirm, but kinda tricky to pull off

2 bar - Cl. C or D, 6B(1), 214BD, 214AC, 214B, 236236K
Good damage, easy to confirm and cost effective

3 bar - Cl. C or D, 6A, 236B, 236236B, (sideswitch), 236236AC
Not very cost effective, but deals a lot of damage nonetheless and is easy to confirm.

QUICK MAX COMBOS

Quick Max Combos:
Most efficient way to start a QM combo would be Cl. C or D, 6B(2), QM
But can be activated with a low hit confirm 2B, St. B(2) easily too
Also from f. C as a punish or poke

2 bars - QM, Cl. C or D, 6A, 236BD, 214B, 236236P
Works in all positions, I don't recommend doing it, but it's good to know in case you do QM by mistake or regret it and don't want to spend too much bar

3 bars - QM, Cl. C or D, 6A, 236BD, 214B, 2141236CD
Works in all positions, this is her climax QM combo in point position.

3 bars - QM, Cl. C or D, 6A, 236B, 236236K, (sideswitch), 2141236CD
Works in mid and anchor, this is her main Climax QM combo with 3 bars

4 bars - QM, Cl. C or D, 6B(2), 236236AC, 2141236CD
Works in mid and anchor, and this is the big girl damage she can get off of a QM midcreen. Super easy to do and very useful if you want her to spend a lot.

OTHER USEFUL COMBOS
0.5 bar - 2B, St. B(1), 214BD, 214C
Your go to light low confirm, very easy to do and confirm, but she needs to spend bar on it. You can also combo supers and even climax from it if you want a fast kill

0.5 bar - 2B, 214BD, 214C
I use this as a punish for moves I know 2B punishes. Not hit confirmable, but an amazing punish for some specific moves

1 bar - CD, whiff 214D, 236236K
Your main CD combo, specially useful for meaties and pressure

1.5 bar (corner) - Cl. C or D, 6A, 236BD, 214AC, 214B, 214BD, 214C
This is her most optimal corner combo, deals A LOT of damage with only 1.5 bars, and most importantly, is a reset that allows you to two touch opponents if they fall for it

SET UPS:

• After a hard knockdown, usually 214D or j. 236D:
  236A to put the orb directly above your opponent. If they press buttons, they will be hit by it and you can combo.
  If they block, which they probably will, you have some options:

1. Hop C into Bnb, which is basically an instant overhead that lets you get BIG damage
2. Run a bit, like 2 or 3 steps, and low bnb
   Lower damage, but people don't expect a low if you've done overhead other times
3. Run a bit, just one or two steps and jump crossup C. People also don't expect crossups if you've done the hop route before because of how similar the setups are
4. Run a bit and 6B into QM. This causes low damage and spends a lot of bar, but people don't expect a standing overhead if they see you haven't jumped or hopped. Specially if you've gone for low before
5. Just block. This setup loses to DPs on all offensive options, so if they start DPing too much or you feel like they will rn, just walk back. Even if they don't DP, the orb will hit on block and you will be plus, letting you start pressure again.

• After a hard knockdown, usually 214D or j. 236D:
  236BD to make the orb appear behind your opponent and pull them closer to you. This leads to some HUGE damage, but you actually only have three options, and this setup loses to DPs and wake up buttons:

1. Run close and 2B into St. B(2), Orb hits, Cl. D Bnb
2. Hop C, Cl. C, 6A, Orb hits, Cl. D Bnb
3. Just block. You won't get anything from it, but it's better than being hit with a DP or hit confirm into big combo.

• After 1.5 bar corner combo, you can combo 2C after the final hit of 214C and then:

1. Instantly hop C to catch them off guard with a basically instant overhead that will lead to a big combo, probably just do the same 1.5 bar corner combo again which will most likely kill. So 2 touch with 3 bars on corner.
2. 6B into QM, standing overhead, but low damage and spends too much. Still a good option if you're sure it's gonna kill
3. Instantly empty hop and low bnb. Will catch them off guard for sure if you have hopped C already
4. Just block. If you feel like your opponent might DP after a reset, just block and punish it accordingly.

• After Anti Air 2C, 236A to place the orb right under them while they reset. This will force them to block, and you can use the same options that I wrote for hard knockdowns

• After Climax, 236B
  You don't get anything from it besides a bit chip damage, but leaves you very plus, so you can use it to try to start pressuring again or backdash and zone.
  And it's free, there is no reason not to do it

ZONING
That is pretty much very straightforward.
214C is your go to projectile. Very fast, knocksdown, keeps your opponent away and makes them jump.
236 A, B, C or D are your orbs, and each button gets the orb further. Mix them with the projectiles to catch opponents off guard. Always put the orb a bit closer to you than the opponent actually is, as they tend to roll or jump when they see the kiss animation. If they roll and land on an orb, they will be pushed back and you can continue zoning
If they jump and land on it, you can combo into 236BD, which will cause a good damage and leave them super close to you, where you'll decide if you wanna try to push them back again and keep zoning or if you want to start pressure

Some tips I can give is that the close orb will serve as your anti air. People in jump range will try to jump in on you if they see a projectile or kiss animation.
So do the close orb, because they will land on it and you can go back to zoning.
If they jump and you don't have time to get a close orb, 2C is your AA
It's one of the best buttons in the game, hits backwards, super fast and long reach. You can use the AA 2C into 236A set up I wrote up there.
If you want to gamble BIG, or if you are sure your opponent will jump, you can cancel 214C projectile into Raw Climax. Her climax serves as an anti air, and it's super easy to shortcut into it from 214C, so this is a strat that deals massive damage for anti air, but costs 3 bars, and you'll just lose them if your opponent doesn't jump.

RUSHDOWN AND PRESSURE
Also very straightforward, but she has a lot of tricks to help her, specially on air
Shermie j. C is one of the best crossups in the game, so you can use it for big damage
Her j. CD has one of the best hit boxes, amazing corner carry, and people struggle a lot anti airing it with normals
Use and abuse her heavy dive kick too, 236D. It's safe on block, and lets you bait DPs. Causes hard knockdown, so amazing for the setups. But your opponent can simply walk under it and punish you HARD if you do it too much, so be careful.

Her sweep, 2D, has an amazing reach and can be canceled into 214D even on block, making it safe and causing A LOT of chip damage.
It's silly af, but if you hit your 2D and cancel into 214D, you can simply 2D again and it will meaty, so you can loop people doing 2D, 214D, 2D, 214D, 2D... and so on.
In my experience, usually hits up to two or three times before they learn to block it.

CD is a good button if your opponent is coming at you. Serves as dash check and anti air, and can be canceled into 214D for excellent chip damage, corner carry and safe on block. Also good for meaties if you time it right, then again, good for corner carry.

SYNERGY WITH REGULAR SHERMIE
They are very different characters that can do very different things. But probably because they share the same normals, you can start conditioning people with O. Shermie, so when Regular Shermie comes, a bit of her work is already done. Or the other way around.
If you anti air a lot with O. Shermie's 2C, people will afraid to jump in on Shermie, even tho her 2C is actually much worse now
If you run up low or crossup too much with one of them, people will still be careful with those when the other comes.
Also, O. Shermie and Shermie are two characters that can go very well in any position, so that leaves your third spot very free for you to choose anyone without worrying about positions.

Welp...
I guess that's it on O. Shermie
In the end, O. Shermie is all about mixing up your options and searching for a way to catch your opponents off guard
She is very well rounded and can do a lot of stuff, but isn't super great at any
She has good buttons in neutral
Her 2C is VERY good if you are doing it on reaction for both anti airs and checking dashes
And don't be predictable
Don't do one set up too many times without variables, or they will learn and punish you HARD
Thank Orochi her damage is GOOD
So you probably won't ever have to repeat strategies too many times
Two or three that go in, if you have the meter, will most probably kill
I play her in Mid most of the times because I feel like regular Shermie is a better anchor for me, mostly because of the easier time getting in, but she does work VERY well in Point and due to her efficiency in using bar and setups, and Anchor for her huge damage with bar.
It's really up to you and the rest of your team
Hope I helped with O. Shermie!
And have fun!
🙂

[magic harness]

@plush delta, @runic rain, @lament mirage, @meager portal, @wet briar, @zenith hollow, @sinful herald, @snow beacon, @magic harness

Idk if anyone else wants to learn O. Shermie or struggles fighting mine, but I hope this helps!

[sinful herald]

Nice thanks for the detailed write up @magic harness !!

[magic harness]

Happy to help!

[lament mirage]

Much appreciate the ping

[magic harness]

@magic harness

[plush delta]

You should put this in the dreamcancel. The Shermie guide too

[magic harness]

What is dreamcancel?

Is it that site?

[lament mirage]

Yes

Holds all frame data

[magic harness]

Idk if it's technical or well written enough tbh

[plush delta]

Yes there is a strategy section you can put this in

[magic harness]

Plus, it's just my view on the chars, not exactly unbiased

Based on pure experience

[plush delta]

It is plus it’s a collab site so there will be editors to help you

The Leona section is quite sad

[magic harness]

Right...
Welp, I might just do it!

[meager portal]

Yo, @plush delta I know we didn't get many sets in today, but do ya think I'm getting closer to beating you anytime soon?😅

[plush delta]

It’s definitely possibly. All you need is get those combos in

[meager portal]

Yeah I need to get the timing down for bms light confirm

Its super easy, but I'm just super bad

[plush delta]

The Andy is very solid

I don’t think Terry or Mary changed much. You do have that new non QM combo for Mary

[meager portal]

Idk, feel my andy kinda stayed the same

[plush delta]

You got the main BnB combo with the ex elbow

[meager portal]

I've found myself fireball spamming for meter more often though

[meager portal]

Yeah, that one took a bit to get down

[plush delta]

But yeah tbh, not a big change from when I last played you

You did well against galtera though

[meager portal]

Normally I don't like to fireball spam because that's the kind of stuff that would get me punched if I tried that against anyone I knew

But oh well, "play lame, win game" or so they say

And its good for dealing with Geese players

[plush delta]

No one cares about style 😉

[meager portal]

In the time it takes for them to do a double reppuken, I've already jumped over it and started heavy combo'ing them to hell

[meager portal]

I do.
That's the entire reason I lab combos lol😅

[raven ridge]

Andy elbow is definitely safe. Idk what instance it is, but if for whatever reason the pushback is close enough for a light (I think it's the corner highkey cuz you stop at the wall) then you can punish

Although I can't confirm this with certainty.

[magic harness]

@storm garden @raven ridge

[magic harness]

@raven ridge

[raven ridge]

sank you, i'll give it a read and lab her at some point today

Im a lil under the weather n I think I got most things I have to do today complete so

Definitely will give her some time, see if I like her routes 🙂

[spring relic]

Miss matches with ya @raven ridge

[raven ridge]

me too me too 😭 play me soon

I need more Billy MUxp

[spring relic]

Just waiting for my Internet to come back

[spring relic]

Can’t lie, he is improving

[raven ridge]

good good 🔥 can't wait

[spring relic]

It’s funny, I can tell online when people don’t expect my Billy to have real combos

[raven ridge]

LOL i think 95% of the active base doesn't even know Billy has some sauce now

Just a matter of time till we see him in pro scene and people don't know what to expect & people start labbing him

[spring relic]

It’s cause it isn’t top tier spice

[raven ridge]

Then you can @ the whole KOFxv server that you'rea pioneer looool

[magic harness]

It's fun af!
People getting desperate against Billy

[spring relic]

Thing is if Billy gets the read with some bar he will F ya up

[magic harness]

I get away with SO MUCH I shouldn't

[spring relic]

He also got Chad energy with that pinstripe suit

[raven ridge]

which i think is v rewarding if you make the right call.

Suit/civvy Billy goes hard

I need suit Rock ASAP

[spring relic]

Makes him worth playing

Losing 10 matches, for me, is worth that one where I get it right

[magic harness]

Agree!
Lol

[spring relic]

|| Players respect blocked 426C > 236A/C more than they should ||

[raven ridge]

jokes on you, you censored it, but i still can't read

[spring relic]

My entire KOF gameplan centers on opponent illiteracy

[magic harness]

Thank you! I'm about to hit the lab and will check Shermie out

[magic harness]

Tell me what you think!
And you can ask me if you have any questions

[plush delta]

Be sure to message me the rankings when you find the time!

[magic harness]

Won my first ranked match 2-0!

[magic harness]

Done it already

[magic harness]

Sure will!

[warped pine]

Let's goooo!

[magic harness]

Yay!

[plush delta]

I think you can make rank 16 comfortably

[magic harness]

I'll try to! I think I promoted to 14 off of my first opponent

Road to Champion rank!

[magic harness]

Don't be afraid to DM if you want some particular training or something
🙂

[warped pine]

You're starting off with a lot of skills already

[sinful herald]

Go in the lab and use Iori level 2 maiden masher after blocking Andy A elbow to see what I mean

There’s a few moves that do this

It’s not punishable “conventionally” but all it takes is one of these for the opponent to think twice

[magic harness]

Thank you! Really good guide. In conjunction with the dreamcancel guides (that I discovered yesterday after our game btw, dk how I didn't find it earlier) I feel like I have a solid grasp of what the character is about. Some stuff in the guide seem to have been patched out. There's mention of a 2B>6B chain that seems to not exist anymore. Just a few little things. Maybe that's just it btw

[sinful herald]

The rabbit hole goes deep eh @magic harness ??

[magic harness]

It does! I didn't expect to find such depth in single characters in a 3v3 game (even though its not quickswap and assists like Marvel)

In my mind right now, KOF is the king of 2D

It doesn't go in pure bloating territory like blazblue does, but it's really really deep

[sinful herald]

It’s crazy that for all the “system similarities” KOF characters have, there’s a remarkable amount of unique traits and properties

[plush delta]

KoF has always been renowned for its gameplay

[magic harness]

So true!

[magic harness]

Shermie's normals have been nerfed a lot through the patches
Lmao

[magic harness]

I understand why now

She was also safe on DP and run grab on Season 1

[magic harness]

Aww poor mommy 😦

O. Shermie's normals are still the same tho

[magic harness]

Ok maybe that was a little too much but the normals

[magic harness]

Yeah I see like O.Yashiro

[magic harness]

SNK just couldn't let her be and let her live the || shota || dream with her little Chris... 😦

IYKYK but don't look it up on Google!

LMFAO

[magic harness]

Have Yashiro's normals also been nerfed?

I thought only his DP

[magic harness]

I've heard about it. Normal Yashiro

I never played him, so Idk

[sinful herald]

It’s tough to say really. Like his j.C will still hit you in the back of the head while completely cornered

[magic harness]

Some streamer, maybe ChrisG, said that O.Yashiro kept the powerful normals of regular Yashiro

[magic harness]

Yes...
That shit is dumb

He can crossup in the corner? I hate Yashiro already. Maybe I'll look him up though...

[sinful herald]

I kid you not it happened to me last night and I was shook

[magic harness]

xD

I really like CYS, but I just don't like Yash and Chris gameplay

S h o o k

[sinful herald]

Like wtf am I supposed to do lol

[magic harness]

Yes
Happened to me too quite a lot
I was just...
Flabbergasted

Yeah this isn't SF normally you don't have to wiggle the stick from one side to another in the corner 😦 i'm already at a disadvantage, let me have that!

F l a b b e r g a s t e d

[sinful herald]

Where’s the Terry “That’s KOF baby” jpg when you need it?

I went and scrolled the leaderboard after our sets were finished and they were just shy of top 100…on a smurf account

😭😭😭

[magic harness]

😭😭😭

Damn

[sinful herald]

Yeah. They had like 5 games total in their list each with under 10 hours played. And then like 300 hours of 15

Not buying it lool

[magic harness]

Yeah, I doubt it

That's a smurf!

100 100

[sinful herald]

💯

[magic harness]

H u n n a

Dinner time!

maybe I'll play some games right after. If not I'm gonna spam games tomorrow

[sinful herald]

Bon appetite

[magic harness]

Bon appétit* but I appreciate it, merci beaucoup !

[sinful herald]

exposed

[magic harness]

Lololol

[magic harness]

I have a question regarding QMs, in some instances (like with Clark), I can do a lvl1 or lvl2 while in QM and I'm still in QM so I can do Climax after super for 1 more bar (extremely worth QM).

However with Rock, his 236×2+P super removes my QM state and I can't do Climax for 1 bar. Is that normal? Do some supers "consume" your whole QM/MM bar?

236×2+K also removes me from QM state

[raven ridge]

Generally, QM routes go like this
Hit . qm . Heavy . Cmd normal . Special . Lvl 1 . Lvl 2/climax

[magic harness]

With Rock

[raven ridge]

With Rock, do heavy, cmd normal, light elbow, lvl 1, lvl 2/climax

You won't have enough time/meter to connect multiple specials, let alone hard elbow

[magic harness]

Yeah Rock can't chain supers into higher lvl like that. His QMs are removed instantly

[magic harness]

Thanks!

So it's only a matter of time?

[raven ridge]

Usually, yes. It's not worth doing EXs with QM unless you QM with a point character

[magic harness]

I see

[raven ridge]

Point characters you follow the same route but jump straight into a climax

[magic harness]

Right. Cuz you only have 3 bars max so you want to go for the lvl3(climax). Got it! Thanks for the tip!

[magic harness]

Rock is your anchor, right?

[magic harness]

Yes he is!

Depending on how much damage you need to kill, sometimes it's better to go for his install climax

I don't play him, but they say it's very strong

Damn I just learned you get a free command grab after EX 623P with Clark. Really good 1.5 bar light confirm with that

[magic harness]

Yeah I still need to try that. I don't use it yet

[magic harness]

Almost 400 damage from 2B for 1.5 bar is good, no?

Yes, very good

You should ask Tiago and Oli about him
They are our Clark experts

Yup!

Tiago even has Clark as his pfp! heh

Lol
Yes!
His Clark is amazing
Scary af

😮

I need to learn from him

[magic harness]

Or 350 with good oki (safejump options)

[small haven]

Its average damage id say

But solid

[plush delta]

It’s okay. Imo you don’t need it unless to kill. You only get 50 extra damage with it.

Clark damage is sad

[magic harness]

What would be your variation of the combo?

Ah you meant on the C to 6B starter, right? Yeah you don't need to EX 623P here it's not worth to spend the extra 0.5. I meant using it only on lights

[plush delta]

Even on lights you don’t need to

[magic harness]

Ah you mean you could go straight to cmd grab

Yeah

[plush delta]

I would do close C 6B 426BD 214A 426AC 22D for damage, 22C for oki

[magic harness]

I can't confirm that lol

Yeah that's the combo I do too, I didn't get what you meant exactly at that moment

[plush delta]

If you want to do optimal QM, you should do close C 6B QM close C 6B 623 C 426x2 BD Climax

[magic harness]

Doing 623 is easier than a whole 426

Just drop Clark and join the Shermie army

Lmfao

Jk
Clark is cool af

[plush delta]

Shermie will make your life easier

[magic harness]

That's the combo I would try to go for yes, madkof does it all the time with his Clark. Btw I should absolutely do 623A everytime I get a C->6B on block. Meter build.

[raven ridge]

Anchor Rock, you definitely want to try for a QM or bypass QM and go straight into install as early into the match as you can

[plush delta]

623A is his block string ender

[raven ridge]

Damage, properties, Rock gets really buffed

His elbow becomes very safe too

[magic harness]

I'm still labbing her for now!

[magic harness]

Is it permanent?

[magic harness]

Damn I'll try him out now

I mean, for the round
I know it doesn't carry between rounds

[raven ridge]

Match only but you can really make a comeback/get back the meter you spent

[magic harness]

Yes, I've seen some Rocks using it
And like 20s after, they had 3 bars again
Lmfao

[raven ridge]

It's pretty juiced

[magic harness]

I want to buy him...
Lmao

[raven ridge]

It refunds .5 meter so it's -2.5 net usage

[magic harness]

But it kinda hurts to pay 16 dollars only for Rock
I couldn't care less about Gato and Jenet

[raven ridge]

Nerfed the damage but all the more reason to use. His fireball is essentially a free EX, neutralizes EXs too without using meter yourself

[raven ridge]

Yeah, buy teams on sale of you really only plan on playing 1 character lol

Or really commit to the one character to justify the price (it doesnt) and look at the other two as freebies 😂

[magic harness]

Samsho too
I only wanted Haohmaru

[small haven]

Labbing against them in training mode has its benefits

[magic harness]

O. Shermie
Lmfao
Completely worth the whole 16 to me

[small haven]

If you needed to figure something out

[raven ridge]

Haohmaru is actually disgusting

He's like, the perfect point/mid character

[magic harness]

How come I never see him online?
He seems so cool!

[raven ridge]

His setups with 66 623 does ridiculous damage

[magic harness]

And doesn't seem weak

[raven ridge]

It's like a juiced up DP but man, that damage gets nutty

[raven ridge]

His normals are mid and his combo structure is pretty weak so it's touch n go, reset

He's very much a mid tier character but his damage makes up for it

[magic harness]

Like Billy
But...
Probably works better

[small haven]

He does have Stand A of the gods

[raven ridge]

^ I think this is the one, but yeah it's like a v fast, long poke.

I like Haoh, I'd pick him up

[magic harness]

Me too
But then again, I couldn't care less for Nako and Darli, so...
Eh

I'll wait for sales
Lol

Specially with Kim, Sylvie and Najd coming up
I need to save some money

[magic harness]

Nako is very cute when she says "maha-ha-ha". That justifies the buy imho

Does install Rock get "only" a substantial damage buff or does he get anything more I don't know about? @raven ridge

[raven ridge]

Fireball can OTG and it's a free ex, like it melts other fireballs

[magic harness]

Damn

[raven ridge]

Elbow is faster, but it's not updated on DC.

[magic harness]

Oh yeah very safe elbow you said too

[raven ridge]

Like terry, he has a light elbow-light dp connection

But it's install exclusive

[magic harness]

I'd play her just for her story mode secret ending with Shermie and Yash

C elbow is safe now? Damn

[magic harness]

She's so cute 🥰

[raven ridge]

-8 but if you do it after some hits, you can block for sure. Maybe they'll whiff depending on the character

[magic harness]

Alright!

[magic harness]

Okok!

[magic harness]

Last question before I fall asleep. For Kyo players out there. I don't see you guys going for j.2C nearly as often in this game while when I watch KOF 98 or KOF XIII matches it's like their go to. People seem to go for j.B or j.CD. why is that?

[rancid marlin]

that move is not that efficient as a jump in

compared to his other buttons

[magic harness]

Did it get nerfed in this game in some way? Or did the other buttons get buffed or are better options now due to system changes or something?

[rancid marlin]

I believe it's a mix of all of this. I don't know the specifics of old kyo, but using that vs any other button is like why

[magic harness]

Okay! Maybe a Kyo veteran will be able to go into the specifics. But yeah I noticed I never saw any Kyo use j.2C when it's so common in old KOF for Kyo. Thanks @rancid marlin

[raven ridge]

I've also heard it's whack this game, and I'm just learning kyo now so I believe it LOL. As a cross up, his jB is superior so 🤷🏽‍♂️ @magic harness

[grizzled heart]

Yeah it’s not as good in this game

In the older games you get a more free window to combo off of in this one it’s tight af

Frames r prolly better in old games too

Ima start using that tho that’s a cool animation

[small haven]

It’s primarily used as a backdash cancel. Which in turn makes it a good wake-up option on defense against say a grappler or someone going low.

Not that this is different than older games but yeah he just has other buttons

Maybe the hitbox is tricky or not very active

[sinful herald]

Imo it’s not great. This is for Clark right? If so he is way better off spending meter on EX tackle and EX turn punch

[sinful herald]

Yeah what jalen said here @magic harness . You mostly see it used this way when Kyo is cornered because the backdash beats command grab/sweep and he gets a hitbox out in front of him. And like daru said j.B is superior (arguably one of the best cross up buttons in the game) and j.CD has a HUGE hitbox, comes out super fast and is nearly impossible to AA cleanly. It’ll almost always result in a trade (in Kyo’s favor lol)

[plush delta]

Clark low tier. Buff Clark

[plush delta]

@blissful sand I found the Shermie guide

[blissful sand]

Thanks

[magic harness]

Feel free to Ping me or DM me if you have any questions!

[grizzled heart]

Kyo da goat

[magic harness]

@weary schooner

[magic harness]

I think tomorrow I will lab a bit and try to switch out Rock for Krohnen. I love Rock and I will def keep playing him but I want to learn Krohnen

Anyone got tips on learning Kroh? (I might read the advice tomorrow. I will fall asleep soon)

[plush delta]

Tons of pros play krohnen so it’s easy enough to find tourney videos on him

[magic harness]

Yes absolutely

Just the basics though. What buttons are good in neutral ? (I know his neutral is meh) Mistakes/bad habits to avoid when starting him out?

[plush delta]

2A is really good and leads to his combos

6A round start

Midscreen combo into his ex projectile to stagger

[magic harness]

I think he will be a good fit in 3 as I use primarily EX moves with Geese and Clark and often have 4 bars for anchor round start

Yeah that's what I'm talking about!

[plush delta]

I think both 2A and 2B lead to 3D which you can combo into specials

[magic harness]

6A leads into the midscreen combo?

[plush delta]

No

Just a poke

[magic harness]

Ok! I thought that was weird when I read that lol

Yeah 3D into the EX "air slash" special for a combo

[plush delta]

Watch both Xiaohai and leshar videos

[magic harness]

Leshar

Yeah

Yeah they're godlike Krohnen players. I think M' plays him too? No?

[plush delta]

Abuse hop CD

[magic harness]

Tons of top players play Krohnen

[plush delta]

It allows you to hit his DP after

[magic harness]

Yeah! I saw madkof playing Clark against M' Krohnen and he couldnt find an answer to hop/hop back CD

He had very low life though maybe that's why he was so reluctant to get in