Feedback for Extraction side of the game

[shut dew]

While i enjoy much more the roguelite side of things and wish the game leans on more on THAT specific side, devs made it clear that they want to keep both so i think i should explain much more what i think this game lacks on the extraction side of things, personally i'm not a big fan of the genre but kinda played some games that have aspects of it, hunt showdown, COD, division survival mode and probably other smaller ones i dont remember. Anyhow to the actual feedback. the tl;dr is on the last post.

• For the lack of better words, game lacks content: Simply, what makes extraction games good i think is variety, both in items player can find and in activities available. Since the game is in early access i think that this is a natural problem that will be adressed over time well at least for the first part of items, while i know new content in the form of the caves is coming at the next patch (as the moment of writing) i'm not sure if it's simply a map expansion or activity expansion, which is think it the point to be adressed better.

Both games share some similarities in what i consider 3 aspects, slow meta progression over multiple runs, optional extra hard/secret content and soft resets of power. First one is that you slowly acquire power in roguelikes by doing smaller objectives that unlocks new features or buying with special resources in shops, this game is going to further rework character sycoms and core upgrades as well it has other features not implemented so this appear to be progressing well.

The second one is trickier because extractions have do have a closed loop of going in and extracting to close a loop, it offers a lot more variety of different activities with different risk/rewards and more predictable rewards by a quest system, factions activities and also secret high value objectivs that are either hidden or present themselves as an extra challenges, COD for example had zones you needed gas masks to enter and fight a boss for unique rewards.

I think new activities should be presented with more predictable rewards should be introduced, for that fog of war over the geometry of the map should be removed, but point of interests should stay hidden until you get close enough of them.

Progression in extraction games doesnt necessarily comes from finishing full "run" of cleaning the map and the big bad guy, it mostly comes from doing side objectives that helps you in the long run, a good example of that is the assassins that many have voiced their opinion should reward the player more.

Then we have the issue of how long term should those objectives and rewards be, because if you lose everything on a clear, working extra hard for that secret and rare loot can instead feel worthless because it's too much work for a short term rewards

[shut dew]

So i think many activities should unlock possible starter equipment or materials needed for the long term progression instead, such as cores, abyssal stones or others planned to be added in the future. Because i think a good strong point of extraction games can be having a smaller side objective that you can completely focus on doing at the risk of ignoring main objective

COD did that with variety of high risk objectives that just doing them was more than enough motivation to extract, similarly some roguelikes like isaac or star of providence have special bosses/endings that require more specific routes or planning in mind to achieve which completing them is just as good or better as defeating whatever final boss you get in regular routes

An odd comparison i could make is to Deathloop, that as a weird time travelling game, you constantly have to reset and lose equipment when you die, unless you saved enough resources to save an item permanently, while i dont think permanently here is a good idea, something that can keep some of even one item to the next run in case it goes the experimental build direction is something that could be worked into the game

another great thing that game does is secrets and puzzles that require multiple runs because you might stumble into the step 4 of a quest by accident, so you dont feel bad burning a run in what would normally be a "useless" part of the game for the main plot because you know there's secondary rewards, one case for this is that some special weapons are limited to certain times of the day but to actually get them you have to do prep work in a previous moment that would get you locked out of the main quest "correct" path

so an example would be some kind of special event that happens after you have defeated all assassins in the game at least once, so players might do runs just focused on fighting assassins and find this secondary objective worth doing over multiple tries and runs, so even if they waste a bunch of medkits and gear breaks down so they just die when they reach a crown, they still achieved their actual objective of fighting the assassins

tl;dr Add a lot more side objectives that players would be fine completely wasting their time on it even if means they are not going to finish the prism -> crown -> abyss king route

[west epoch]

You kinda lost me here but I’ve never played deathloop. Not sure I understand. I think you have some cool ideas here otherwise

There definitely needs to be side quests

[shut dew]

death loop is a game that you have 3 times of the day to do multiple things and break a time loop

while you might lose some items and bonus, your knowlodge is permanent

so a bunker might be locked all day, but the guard who stays there mention he will got to party at night, so you have to stalk him in the party to hear his drunk rumbling about the passcode just being his boss birthday, since at end of the day the loop restart, you lose part of what you got but now you know the password to go there in the morning of the next loop

with that i mean that some more side objectives that are not "kill crowns to fight abyss king" are a good way give player progression that even if they fail the overall cycle, they did progress in something else that is just as good

[hallow sigil]

side objectives such as collecting the shadow fragments (if that is their name) to uncover the lore? I found that a worthy side objective, but its not tied to extraction and can only be reset after clearing a cycle. Perhaps quests from shopkeepers like "take down 8 leapers of any variety and I will upgrade the rarity of my items" or something like that would spice up cycles

[shut dew]

there were a couple of odd suggestions such as finding merchants in overgrowth making an elite marked as bounty spawning, reworking of the radioactive zones to spawn certain enemies and extra rewards

[shut dew]

reviving this with a bit more suggestions:

• Caches: Maybe add that certain enemies or hidden areas contain caches that might occupy a gear slot or have certain penalties but give you bonus if you complete a cycle with them or offer some reward if you extract the old fashion way with the pad. Maybe as an additional way to get holos or caches letting you pick the weapon you want for the character only if bring them back, could also add a new NPC that is the one that handles them in hub to make it more active.

With this i think you can add a faster and more difficulty way for people to progress in run, by taking more risks for higher reward close to extraction games that work on this hoarding mentality, from simple status down like less total battery or life, to more complex effects increasing world tier, taking a cut from your bright blood obtained to maybe even taking away bit of your life overtime

[stray imp]

(Essentially copy pasting what I said in general cause I feel like it can still work)

Make it so that everytime you defeated a crown, a popup would appear that asks you if you want to either extract to save and take a break, or continue but you get a small debuff and enemies get stronger but you will also get better rewards

This will be balanced out by the fact that even when extracting you could still get said better gear but at a lower chance than if you kept playing, however I was thinking of a late game metaupgrade that would make this chance go closer to the one you get by choosing to continue