💬gameplay-discussion

[west perch]

Not speedrun, clearing

[strange ridge]

And luck (pre-frontface)

[grim pine]

except when due to random bs shanako run so close to enemies she can't hit barely anybody with aoe

yeah how nice

[west perch]

Shanako isn't absolute aoe

makoto is

[strange ridge]

You know you can run another aoe alongside Hanako

[grim pine]

for yellow ig

[west perch]

who's asking you to speedrun

[past spruce]

Also Cherino

[west perch]

ue30 makoto

[strange ridge]

Cherino can miss

[past spruce]

But we don't talk about her

[west perch]

3* makoto is enough for yellow

[past spruce]

Yeah

[strange ridge]

Painfully so

[west perch]

ue30 can off-colour

ue40 even kills Goliath off-colour

[grim pine]

not in pink tmt

[strange ridge]

Well if you're that desperate you know you can just run 3 students for the mobbing phase with S. Hanako.

[grim pine]

why does raid need to make you that desperate?

doesn't it make it shit raid?

[pallid inlet]

What

[strange ridge]

No

That just means you want to win by any means necessary

And like Chesed isn't a shit raid

[pallid inlet]

What’s even the point here exactly

[grim pine]

so you're saying you gotta work your ass out making a team specifically to deal with bs mob span and movement rng

[pallid inlet]

???

[west perch]

"movement rng"

[strange ridge]

Or remove it

[grim pine]

seems kinda ass to me

[west perch]

where's your skoharu iori nonomi momoi

[pallid inlet]

Since when is movement rng so important to clearing

[past spruce]

You don't even need to rely on movement rng to clear

[strange ridge]

Not sure how applicable this is to you, but here's how I did my torment run

[grim pine]

point is cheese is worse then goz

[past spruce]

That's not a normal clear

At all

[grim pine]

in p1

[pallid inlet]

Tf is the point

[west perch]

I can bring 3 aoe in p1 and blindly play and I'm not malding shit

[strange ridge]

Its possible for P1 to even replace Kisaki with Serina here

[obsidian heath]

...most of the mob bullshit is in p2

[pastel mortar]

The only rng I noticed is how the first wave in room1 moves.

[pallid inlet]

P1 is kinda free

[past spruce]

Just use 2 s.hanako sprays?

[strange ridge]

Even then, that's not exactly a provlem

[past spruce]

🤦‍♂️

[west perch]

and yet I bring tyuuka in goz and I'm still malding pos

[pallid inlet]

If you’re “just clearing” none of this rng even matters

[past spruce]

Especially p2

[strange ridge]

Mood

[grim pine]

i didn't use that bald of a strat

[strange ridge]

P1 in particular

[grim pine]

p1 is enough ok

[west perch]

if you're mad at chesed because you're bringing 1 aoe in p1, that's on you

[strange ridge]

P2 is kinda easier in Goz

[west perch]

you're not even supposed to clear p1 with a single aoe

[past spruce]

You are willingly signing for pain if you are doing Chesed with 1 aoe

[azure knot]

das true

[loud knoll]

I can show you 0 restart strategies for chesed if you struggle so bad

[past spruce]

When s.hanako didn't exist people had to run 2 more more aoe

Heck, even yellow torment used Makoto and Cherino for p1

[pallid inlet]

There’s more game ending rng events that can happen on goz than chesed

[past spruce]

For comfy

[grim pine]

i just hate chesed mobs more than goz

[strange ridge]

Meanwhile me: I refuse to use S. Hanako in off-color because I like my on-color team better

[obsidian heath]

moe+smiyu my beloveds

[grim pine]

you don't need to show me how to shanako p1 or anything

[pallid inlet]

Which part exactly

[grim pine]

the part before the boss chamber

[strange ridge]

Turret room?

[past spruce]

Sweepers left from the mobs

[grim pine]

aka the p1

[past spruce]

[west perch]

just tell us you hate sweepers

[past spruce]

Yeah

[grim pine]

i hate those too

sweeper jfd == ass

[strange ridge]

Or tell us you hate the turrets

[grim pine]

idk about turrets

[past spruce]

The turrets aren't the problem

[grim pine]

turrets only problem if shanako or other dps gets too far forward

[pallid inlet]

If you leave them alive for too long then it could be a problem

[grim pine]

so they can't be fit in the cone

[strange ridge]

Well not exactly, but they intentionally aim the backline imo

[west perch]

what?

turrets problem is they snipe momoi

[grim pine]

what?

[pallid inlet]

Turret snipes the furthest standing student

[past spruce]

I mean, if you are using s.hanako you should be able to destroy them before they even do anything

[grim pine]

i don't have a problem with turrets sniping anyone lol

[strange ridge]

Yeah I know

[grim pine]

the only one dying was lvl 75 imine

[strange ridge]

Its just that I needed to be extra careful in red team

[past spruce]

Bruh

[pallid inlet]

How

[grim pine]

uhh idk

goliath too strong

i just got her to 85 and it was fine

[strange ridge]

Mutsuki sure doesn't love getting bombarded with turrets

[past spruce]

Even aoba survived this raid

[pallid inlet]

Red armor

[west perch]

honestly the fact that you brought imine at all is enlightening

[past spruce]

Yeah

[strange ridge]

But again, that just meant I had to deal with them faster

[past spruce]

You could have used T.Yuuka or Boshino tank mode tbh

[west perch]

if you really wanted comfy you would've brought a healer like kokona or atsuko

[strange ridge]

But if there's something I loved in this raid

I can make Megu the tank

[proven dove]

It's not about difficulty for me.

I like goz greg kaiten binah geburah

Neutral on hiero hod peroro

Dislike chesed shirokuro kurokage (need to try the new ver though)

[pallid inlet]

Srkr is ass

[west perch]

just do tor and it's not ass

[proven dove]

And I like boat too (minus the bgm)

[pallid inlet]

Maybe because I balded purple torment with boshi

[tender eagle]

tor srkr comfy

[grim pine]

well anyways as i said the issue is
in chesed student's position starts to get fucked up right from the wave 1
where in ins you even get random bot spawn and sometimes you get a bot running to far top left or not without even you doing anything
then everything basically multiplies and it's very difficult to get a predictable run

the comparison was with goz and with goz (at least if you use tyuuka) it works out differently
even though it's reliant on well placed repo, if you are consistent with those they work as a reset for student position, making it much more predictable
that is all

[tender eagle]

just don't do balder strats

[past spruce]

I didn't have Shupos and Kisaki last Srkr GA

Was fun cooking teams for it

I still hate Shiro AA hitting D.Aru 5 times in a row

[strange ridge]

That wouldn't be exactly a problem if you had more than 1 AoEs for Chesed really.

[west perch]

brings a tank that does nothing and 1 aoe in p1 chesed and compains about rng
Next I'll bring kotori to goz p1 and complain about how shit my rotation is

[grim pine]

can't say i have too many aoes. Wish I didn't miss skoharu

[strange ridge]

...

[grim pine]

shanako and nutsuki have their issues

[strange ridge]

What else do you have?

Momiji?

The other purple AoES?

[grim pine]

funny i used momiji for p2 to kill the last wave instead of skoharu

[obsidian heath]

there are ways to predictably manipulate movement in p1
pic 1: I leave one guy alive and shoot it with eri to charge the wand
pic 2: hanako sprays the left flank while the remaining guy spawns a sweeper and that sweeper prevents hanako from moving forward
this is actually 100% consistent

[grim pine]

yeah but tmt has at least consistent wave spawns afaik?

[obsidian heath]

most people copy the japanese and they probably came up with even better strats

[past spruce]

All of them are consistent tho?

[obsidian heath]

ins has random spawns? i didn't notice on yellow/red

[pallid inlet]

All the wave spawns are consistent

[past spruce]

No

There's no rng in wave spawns

[grim pine]

then why does that one bot gets out of aoe only sometimes?

[past spruce]

Oh that

That's just position

[strange ridge]

Enemy movement and positioning

[obsidian heath]

they probably sometimes AA him down
the tank should be in the center

[pallid inlet]

That’s just how it is

[tender eagle]

That's just your students inconsistent positioning

[grim pine]

well whatever it is it's fucking random and it makes me mad

[tender eagle]

things die in different orders and they run whereever they feel like

[past spruce]

That's not rng tho

[grim pine]

what is it then

[past spruce]

If you reset multiple times you can see they go on the same spot

[strange ridge]

What in the speedrunning mald is this?

[pallid inlet]

That’s just how it is

[grim pine]

they literally dont?

[strange ridge]

Then let it die with AAs???

[grim pine]

when you reset sometimes first nonomi can hit all mobs and sometimes one mobs runs away and she can't hit all of them

what is that?

[summer dew]

the second row is sometimes 4 drones and sometimes 2 drones 2 humanoids

[pale fractal]

ins do have random spawns

[obsidian heath]

put the tank in the center, not on the right flank

[summer dew]

thats what causes them to run

[past spruce]

That's just Nonomi's accuracy

Not the mobs

[grim pine]

the bot is not in the aoe

[past spruce]

[grim pine]

what do you mean accuracy

you can't fit all of them into 1 aoe sometimes

[strange ridge]

Ahain, just deal with it using AAs

[pallid inlet]

Or use an aoe ex skill again

[strange ridge]

Again, 1 AoE is not the solution

Bring another one

[grim pine]

whatever they way you deal with that, the claim was there's no rng
there is cleary rng in the very first wave before you even kill anything

[past spruce]

Nonomi isn't really a reliable aoe unit

[obsidian heath]

cherino is right there

[pallid inlet]

That rng won’t end your run

[dim frigate]

This boss sucks 🤧

[past spruce]

Cherino can get the job done even tho she misses sometimes

[grim pine]

it makes the experience of running worse

[strange ridge]

The spawns aren't RNG, the movement may BE RNG, but that isn't exactly a problem IF you had more than 1 AoES attacking.

[proven dove]

Is this about insane yellow ? Cherino makes it really comfy

[pallid inlet]

And how exactly

[strange ridge]

If she doesn't miss

[proven dove]

Just aa the rest

[grim pine]

because you mock for one thing and then something completely different happens?

[loud knoll]

Thats if you don't care about "1 mob survived, i must restart"

[proven dove]

I'm using rio with her so I can spam her

[pallid inlet]

How tf does that matter

[past spruce]

This is just Nonomi's position btw

[strange ridge]

That happens all the time

[past spruce]

You can change her position to hit all of them

[grim pine]

yes especially when she leaves some mobs and half hp

so comfy

[proven dove]

I don't care x)

[pallid inlet]

There are far worse things that happen on ticket even after mocking

[strange ridge]

^^^

[grim pine]

[pallid inlet]

Maybe use another aoe skill

[grim pine]

i'd like those things to depend on my actions and not random things

thank you very much

[pallid inlet]

What I just said is about random events

If a mob is out of position, so what? Just use an aoe skill again

[grim pine]

at least no one says chesed has no random movement/positioning now

[pallid inlet]

If you’re truly doing a comfy run, this shouldn’t matter at all

[grim pine]

or maybe the gameplay shouldn't involve heavy rng elements

[strange ridge]

I've faced Chesed with a relatively many amount of times. And I can say EVEN me using Makoto might leave 1 enemy behind because I am 1 pixel off

[grim pine]

imagine that

[past spruce]

[loud knoll]

You know what else has random movement? Missions

[pallid inlet]

There are worse things you deal with on raids

[grim pine]

yes and?

[old rose]

the gameplay doesn't involve heavy rng

[obsidian heath]

know the work rules
random damage variance: awww you're sweet
random events: hello, human resources?!

[old rose]

literally everything is deterministic

[pallid inlet]

Even worse rng mechanics than “ooh this mob is one pixel to the left”

[strange ridge]

That... kind of usually how raids are becoming.

[tender eagle]

You know we used to just call having to adapt to that a skill

[strange ridge]

Me with Makoto:

[past spruce]

[strange ridge]

It just happens

[past spruce]

They did make raids less rng

[grim pine]

why show an example and we'll rate them from best to worst

[pallid inlet]

Just look at goz

Kurokage before the eye nerf

[grim pine]

yeah eye is ass

[old rose]

wait goz is also not that bad

[strange ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/meme-black-child-exorcist-savun-gif-2886110114740383915

[grim pine]

you know what else is ass?

[past spruce]

We have Goz Train rng, T.Yuuka position

[grim pine]

chesed mobbing

[pallid inlet]

That’s not ass

[grim pine]

it is

[old rose]

why are you malding goz train rng when you could just adapt and repo to the correct side

like a normal person

[past spruce]

Let's run only 1 aoe on a aoe reliant raid

[obsidian heath]

doesn't apply to a game where nigh everyone is a copywriter of rs rainstorm
and when ANYTHING goes off rails they click restart

[grim pine]

yeah i don't remember needing to mald goz train side

[pallid inlet]

That sounds more like a skill issue to me

[grim pine]

even for a speedrun score

[loud knoll]

Video told me to

[past spruce]

Ahh yes, the Kazama Mindset

[strange ridge]

Again, just bring more than 1 AoE and let the ones that weren't in range be dealt with AAs

[west perch]

you always had to for speedruns

[pastel mortar]

Wut is that ins or tor? actually what wave is that?

[west perch]

for minimal repos needed

[strange ridge]

Or

[past spruce]

My suggestion for you is to use 2 more more aoes and don't rush it

[summer dew]

this

[grim pine]

ig not the best ones

[obsidian heath]

my own nozomi comp for goz p1 was no-restart comfy
it just dealt like 30M instead of 45M

[old rose]

thats ins

[strange ridge]

Give up your speedrunning strats and be slacc

[grim pine]

yeah like why have this

[pallid inlet]

None of this would be an issue if you simply slacc torment

[grim pine]

just make it the same

[pallid inlet]

They did

On torment

[past spruce]

They just spawned

They will move after a bit

[grim pine]

yeah and in one case nonomi can't hit them all

why

[pallid inlet]

Whatever rng chesed has is not even close to being as bad as other raids

[grim pine]

why is there a need to have this

[pallid inlet]

I don’t see why nonomi missing a mob is that bad

Is your rot so bad that missing a mob means failing p1?

[tender eagle]

she's gonna miss anyways

[summer dew]

oh i'm not bothered by this, it's annoying, sure, but if you look at my score i just cleared a bit slower

[grim pine]

can you stop projecting about me failing p1

[past spruce]

I think it would benefit their rot more tbh

Since they are regening more cost

Before 2nd wave spawns

[loud knoll]

Ditch Nonomi for s.Hasumi, forget about misses

[past spruce]

Unless it's a specific time comp

[grim pine]

but being annoying is important

aren't games supposed to be fun?

[pallid inlet]

Then don’t play the game if it’s not fun

[old rose]

you should not care so much about being able to clear the entire wave in one nonomi EX

[dim frigate]

This is just being stubborn lol

[old rose]

your clear is not comfy if you're resetting for that

[pallid inlet]

Nobody is forcing you to play the game one way you don’t like

[west perch]

things can be annoying and fun

[grim pine]

feels so wrong needing to accomodate randomness that doesn't need to be there

[copper crescent]

If ur scorechasing, u know what u signed up for

[old rose]

are we going to advocate for removing stab as well

[grim pine]

yes

[past spruce]

I feel like your description of fun is just spamming skills and easily clearing raids

[old rose]

just make everything deterministic

[grim pine]

yes

[west perch]

wait till this guy realises he's playing a gacha game, where RNG determines the characters you get

[summer dew]

bruh they even named purple sweepers as "annoying sweepers" in-game so idk

[old rose]

true we should make gacha give the same students in the same order for everyone as well

[obsidian heath]

randomneds in my casino game?

[pallid inlet]

Unbelievable!!!

[grim pine]

casino is gacha

[past spruce]

Yes

Wow

[grim pine]

why does battle need to be casino too?

[obsidian heath]

it's really not

and even if it is
improvise, adapt, overcome

[copper crescent]

It's about the mindset

[grim pine]

improvise, adapt, overcome == reset

[past spruce]

[obsidian heath]

reset button was a mistake

[grim pine]

true

[west perch]

Truly the speedrunner mindset

[copper crescent]

And that mindset has so many levels to it

[past spruce]

Just run 2 aoes and don't mind the fact that there is one mob left that you cannot hit

[west perch]

have you even done a normal clear before at this point?

[past spruce]

Just AA that guy

You aren't malding right?

So just go for a clear

[grim pine]

i didn't speedun chesed tho, so i don't really get why you so quick at dismissing i think genuine points about annoying rng that really doesn't have a good reason to be there as speedunning pains

[past spruce]

If you are malding, you have to accept that you will have a bad time most of the time

[west perch]

unironically I've malded more on m16 in JP than chesed this raid

[old rose]

rng in the game makes it more fun

[past spruce]

Crits are also rng, so is stab

[grim pine]

like do you really look at chesed and say oh yeah, so the way the waves have random spawns and students tend to have unpredictable positons really add to my gameplay experience?

if yes they have fun ig

[bleak verge]

Hmmmm....

[pallid inlet]

If the rng is so bad, improve around it

[copper crescent]

That's the uniqueness of chesed

[bleak verge]

Miyo is good?

[copper crescent]

No

[old rose]

not particularly

[pallid inlet]

No

[past spruce]

No

[grim pine]

yes and you point them out to me like i think they are great or what?

[past spruce]

No

[old rose]

yes

[obsidian heath]

it's already miyover

[bleak verge]

[copper crescent]

Altho I think eva on chesed is cringe

[grim pine]

then what is it about them?

[past spruce]

Those are also a part of speedrunning pains

[west perch]

I'm still sussing on new raid for miyo & ritsu

[grim pine]

i find chesed annoying and unnecessarily rng filled without speedrunning

[supple star]

Yea thats why i hate Chesed

Not fun

[ashen goblet]

This sounds like getting used to masochism.

[pallid inlet]

If not speedrunning it doesn’t fucking matter

[old rose]

disagree

[grim pine]

i think that's a very reasonable opinion to have

[steep vortex]

thats why i slacc chesed, no point in malding

[pastel mortar]

The point still stands. You can't call it comfy when your whole run is determined by 1 mob being hit or not, even if you think it's not speedrun

[past spruce]

It's rng if you don't watch how to counter that

There's ways to counter that rng

[obsidian heath]

just do torment 🛌

[past spruce]

Like Nonomi position on starting pos

[west perch]

Not really? Random damage variance is pretty much a standard game mechanic in most games nowadays

[grim pine]

yeah just be lucky

[past spruce]

For chesed as example

[loud knoll]

I feel pretty good when I spawn random aoe left and right and think how someone else needs pixel price s.hanako aims instead of that

[past spruce]

That's just the controllable ones

Crit and stab are totally rng

[orchid axle]

We countering rng?

[grim pine]

just counter rng with exceedingly comfy strat

surely no problems with gameplay whatsoever

[orchid axle]

Wait, are you saying we have to play from the toilet?

[old rose]

being able to adapt to a boss' mechanics is interesting

[pallid inlet]

So comfy that rng doesn’t matter

[past spruce]

More like mitigating it so that it isn't as painful

[past spruce]

Yes?

[orchid axle]

Oh

[west perch]

yes

[old rose]

clearing by using the same exact skills in the same exact order in the same exact direction every time is less interesting imo

[obsidian heath]

the comfy strat is what you're meant to do
the raid is designed around having a separate team for p1

[grim pine]

sounds like cope

[past spruce]

There isn't really a problem with that

[pallid inlet]

You’re the coping

[grim pine]

comfy strats aka cope strats

[orchid axle]

So if we sit on our toilet, our crits are 100%

[old rose]

ur in gpd

[past spruce]

[candid gust]

Omg my chiaki crit

[dim frigate]

The cope is adding one more aoe student to the aoe raid

[copper crescent]

U know, now that u point out the mobs rng, I got reminded of how bad luna chesed will be

[orchid axle]

[candid gust]

hi mike long time no see

[strange ridge]

Toilet? I play in the shower room

[pallid inlet]

The what now

[past spruce]

Chiaki AA crits!!!

[pallid inlet]

[old rose]

the opinion of the people typing in here is not the one that the devs are primarily accounting for when designing their game

[west perch]

where's your 40058 peroro?

[orchid axle]

Shower on toilet

Extra crit and stab

[copper crescent]

Luna is probably gonna be like your ex kills half the mobs

[west perch]

luna likely brings in healers for p1 ngl

[copper crescent]

And the rest u gotta aa or use another ex

[ashen goblet]

Krkg hitting the same student with eye multiple times needing to restart for half an hour on that alone, Goz train going right instead of left 20 times in a row, hiero targetting the worst student with curse, Binah breaking the barrel so akane sits under its deadly laser and forcing a restart. Truly peak entertainment.

[grim pine]

why you say so? Clearly the way chesed is designed is good for a lot of people here who find little to no issues with its current design?

[past spruce]

I can't deny that

[strange ridge]

Yeah those mobs are gonna hurt.

[pallid inlet]

Those are worse than whatever rng is present in chesed

[grim pine]

man....

[west perch]

and then we're gonna have some ppl bring ue40 reisa for mobbing

[copper crescent]

The ppl here are like the 5% that aren't annoyed by the rng

[grim pine]

[old rose]

it's only a "forced restart" for your team; if you don't push it to that extent then you can just 3 pan comfy, or do a lower difficulty

it is interesting having to heal a different student depending on rng

or change your skill order

[past spruce]

Also NY.Kayoko on Peroro

[old rose]

or repo a different place

[pallid inlet]

Comfy is not caring about even the worst possible rng events

[grim pine]

imagine having to 3pan cheese because you gotta account for every way rng can fuck you over

[ashen goblet]

Well, I wont argue that rng cant be good. But sometimes its way too punishing.

[old rose]

if your raid is beatable by a macro performing the same 143 actions sequentially every time that's not so interesting

[strange ridge]

Me when I used C. Sena in Kurokage Torment. Made me realize she was a fraud. Maybe the next krkg rerun will determine she isn't

[past spruce]

Be glad that you atleast cleared it

[ashen goblet]

Krkg should be much easier now.

[past spruce]

[grim pine]

meanwhile some other rando gets perfect run on their first attempt

[past spruce]

Yeah, that's the problem

[pallid inlet]

No such thing

[past spruce]

Comparing yourself to others

[strange ridge]

There is sort of

But

[past spruce]

Don't do that

[west perch]

yeah I'm glad I cleared on luna debut

[old rose]

i don't think most people have issues with its current design? the people here just dislike it because almost everyone here is a malder who cares about the one mob left over because it's a time loss

[strange ridge]

Comparing yourself to others is bad for you

[past spruce]

Appreciate the effort that you did

[grim pine]

not to that extent but it great and lucky runs do happen

[orchid axle]

We need peaving the crits

[pallid inlet]

You really shouldn’t be comparing to others who do better than you

I’ve cleared purple torment very comfy

Even when missing half the mobs on one side with shanako ex skill

[ashen goblet]

Im going to attempt it this time. Too bad the acc buff kills atsuko who wasnt even that good to begin with.

[west perch]

she's still p1/3 material

[copper crescent]

Compare yourself to yourself and others will start comparing themselves to you

[grim pine]

that just feels so ass

[ashen goblet]

Is she?

[pallid inlet]

And? I don’t care

[strange ridge]

I think that's the point

[marble gust]

schizo raid behaviours

[west perch]

yeah, you just need to kill foxes or have something tank it (hifumi)

[grim pine]

well i care about how the game plays ig

maybe weird idk

[pallid inlet]

Not to that extent

[old rose]

just use another EX

[marble gust]

try clearing chesed without shanako at all

and come back

[grim pine]

another ex through the rotation

[dim frigate]

Caring about how many teams you send at a specific raid boss is just strange

[grim pine]

why can't the game just be normal

[old rose]

oh no! I need to use another EX! my entire rotation is ruined!

[marble gust]

do 2pan tor without shanako

or 3pan without smika

[pallid inlet]

Maybe you’re the odd one out

[marble gust]

??

[grim pine]

not denying that tbh

[orchid axle]

Even my comfy run is like that :v

[loud knoll]

Select normal difficulty for normal game, its up there

[west perch]

what? The normal difficulty is right there

[grim pine]

can't do that since bad reward

[pallid inlet]

If you think normal is too cringe then the uninstall button is right there

[grim pine]

???

[orchid axle]

But but but, shanako is my favorite yellow aoe mobber

[grim pine]

sorry wanting to get the plat reward means i need to uninstall?

what?

[copper crescent]

If u want plat do tor

[grim pine]

ye i did

[pallid inlet]

Maybe it’s because of your schizo behaviour over missing one mob when you claim to be comfy

[copper crescent]

Wtf

How are u not plat then

[marble gust]

comfy tor clear is plat

[obsidian heath]

how long will the bait keep being thrown

[grim pine]

1 mob example was just the counter evidence to people saying chesed has no wave rng

[copper crescent]

Wtf are we even complaining about when u want plat and got plat

[orchid axle]

Why is this atmosphere so uncomfy

[candid gust]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/796251250827329536/1468224682963763261/HAOQwffbYAAsVcG.gif

[grim pine]

it has wave rng which is completely unnecesssary in my opinion

[pallid inlet]

There’s counterplay to the rng that isn’t just getting lucky

[marble gust]

its always the people who dont know shit abt the game that speaks the loudest

I wonder

[orchid axle]

https://tenor.com/view/kirifuji-nagisa-nagisa-swimsuit-explosion-aura-gif-12415298214088462214

[copper crescent]

Chesed is like the 3rd released boss

[grim pine]

why does that rng need to be there in the first place?

[copper crescent]

Bro has been here for ages

[pallid inlet]

2nd

[copper crescent]

I thought that was srkr

[pallid inlet]

Chesed is the second released boss

[strange ridge]

2md

[copper crescent]

Oh

[strange ridge]

3rd is Srkr

[marble gust]

dem i thought it was like binah srkr hiero

[pallid inlet]

It’s not about whether the rng deserves to be there. It’s about how it impacts gameplay

[supple star]

Malding == no fun
No mald == comfy

Thats all

[orchid axle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/942642201295466498/1469361080404017396/chesed_boro.mp4?ex=698760a4&is=69860f24&hm=bf080a5511f7a318d508f947385c66c10e00f8147184a62bea2801771fc57950&
Chesed clear (I still had to do restarts)

[old rose]

as the "epic anime rpg enjoyer" why do you suppose virtually every game your play has damage variance; devs add it intentionally because it's good from a game design perspective

[grim pine]

no, i think the reason why rng is needed is a good one

[pallid inlet]

Missing one mob is not as game defining as eye rng

[strange ridge]

^

[marble gust]

why rng

crit mald stab mald acc mald

[copper crescent]

position mald train mald eye mald

[marble gust]

elephant in the room

[grim pine]

well i played a good game some time ago, it had no stab-like damage variance and it played very well

[pallid inlet]

Evasion mald

[marble gust]

those stats are written in game

[strange ridge]

You guys are lucky to never experience C. Sena fraud arc

[marble gust]

then go play them?

[strange ridge]

And I hope you guys never will

[pallid inlet]

And? If you don’t like BA for damage variance, play that other game

[grim pine]

what is it then?

[loud knoll]

For what malders will mald if there will be 0 rng?

[grim pine]

so do you think it's good that ba battles has all present forms of rng or not?

[copper crescent]

Everyone on lb would have the same scores

[marble gust]

the students having crit, eva , acc , stab stats already shows the game has rng stats

why does the rng stat game has rng

😟

[pallid inlet]

Yes

[grim pine]

so basically you need rng to filter non-malders and create leaderboard

[copper crescent]

Following hw down to each frame is not difficult for top 100 ppl

[loud knoll]

Investment check 🐳

[old rose]

for example of games with damage variance:

• pokemon
• diablo
• wow
• poe
• fire emblem
• xcom
• skyrim
• witcher 3
• monster hunter
• final fantasy
• dragon quest
• stardew valley
• terraria
• d2
• warframe
• apex

[copper crescent]

Yup

[marble gust]

even then people still would have same scores on most raids lmfao

[old rose]

these are generally regarded as decent games

[ashen goblet]

It would be loading screen malding to get the highest score before the others.

[copper crescent]

Top 100 can easily get the same invest as hw

[orchid axle]

Terraria !!!

[summer dew]

crit harder and sleep

[copper crescent]

Raids would also be much easier

[strange ridge]

Also on that note

B. Hoshino never crits :hoshinobald:

[marble gust]

why you want stat rolling gacha in this game too?

[copper crescent]

Either that or they make it whale and you'd complain about that too

[loud knoll]

People with full ue60 teams should score better somehow or noone will do that

[supple star]

[grim pine]

lots of other games don't, so what?

[copper crescent]

Top 100 can get ue60, they're whale and ue60 is cheap for them

[orchid axle]

Do you visit #mineral-craft-chat ?

[copper crescent]

Wtf bro thought ue60 is expensive for whales

[pallid inlet]

That’s not the point dumbass

[old rose]

these are very very good games that intentionally add damage variance, so if you assert that adding rng (in the form of damage variance) is bad/unfun, then you are asserting that the devs for all of these games have made a mistake

[strange ridge]

I'm sorry you feel that way, but at this point I really feel this is where I drop the Skill Issue.

[copper crescent]

These ppl always get ue60 so their club mates and friends can borrow

[supple star]

I used to talk there

[grim pine]

not really

[orchid axle]

Oh

[grim pine]

wasn't i only talking about ba?

[pallid inlet]

Skill issue

[strange ridge]

Bald, mald, cry, improvise, adapt, overcome

[marble gust]

if you dont like it then dont play it

[strange ridge]

Repeat

[marble gust]

simple

[old rose]

there is a reason games add rng, BA is one of those games

[copper crescent]

No rng means it'd just become a whale game without any depth

[grim pine]

what's the reason?

[copper crescent]

Either that or a grindy game

[marble gust]

we're just saying its not a rare thing

[pallid inlet]

If you don’t like engaging with rng then don’t engage with it

[orchid axle]

What are we even arguing about anymore...

[grim pine]

i'm not disagreeing with that

[copper crescent]

But yeah, people who complain about certain things will also complain about other things of that same level

[calm flicker]

It's a gacha game

[strange ridge]

Again, you have your right to hate it, but you also need to adjust or bust.

[marble gust]

its gacha?

[calm flicker]

Ofc it has RNG

[marble gust]

[ashen goblet]

Encourage you to invest more mats to reduce rng needed.

[marble gust]

which gacha game doesn't have rng

[copper crescent]

If u don't have rng, you'd complain the game is too hard and need too much whaling/invest

[grim pine]

battles are separate from gacha tho

[copper crescent]

And then complain about why you need so much planning for something so simple to do

[marble gust]

i doubt other gacha battles doesnt require restarting

either for skill issue or for rng rolling

[orchid axle]

I'm gonna do 1 pan tor with ticket!

[calm flicker]

Crit mechanic itself is rng

[copper crescent]

Or why the gacha is so rng based and skill check is so hard

[grim pine]

that's one way to put it, but isn't "depth" given by rng not really the depth that you'd want from a really interesting and in-depth gameplay?

[strange ridge]

Good luck

[orchid axle]

[old rose]

to name a few:

• prevents the game from being solved; deterministic gameplay quickly becomes a math problem (always do this at this time on this pixel)
• adds tension to fights (omg she dodged the attack, or lets go never punished)
• discourages risky strategies, so you don't rely on perfect math, but instead learn broad game/boss mechanics
• makes the game more realistic and smooth, rather than robotic and algorithmic

[marble gust]

well no one is saying the rng is to appeal someone or whatever

again if you dont like it just dont

[calm flicker]

It's up to you to embrace or minimize the rng

[copper crescent]

I would say so because it leads you to solve additional problems when something goes wrong that adds more to the game

If it's already solved, what's interesting about it

[marble gust]

highscore clears are people who min max the rng for obvious reasons

when they couldve cleared with comfy

[old rose]

I'm not a game designer, so I would not know best, but as someone who nuzlocked pokemon for 7 years I'm quite familiar with rng in gameplay

[loud knoll]

If you remove rng what lefts of the game?

• copy formation
• copy investment
• copy button press order
• get exactly same score as 500 other players

[marble gust]

you mean 30000 other players

[pallid inlet]

Ain’t nothing fun about that

[calm flicker]

If everything feels the same

[supple star]

You mean the whole server

[calm flicker]

What's the point of trying out new stuffs?

[copper crescent]

Your score is basically worthless since there's no work needed to get that score

[marble gust]

and the speedrun/comfy strats are figured out by the community

not like the devs gave us hw and we copy it

[calm flicker]

Altho the work is praying for favorable rng

[summer dew]

tbh i like randomness but i also like balding to overcome it 👨‍🦲

[grim pine]

• first point: instead of solved determinsitic problem it becomes statistic problem, aka do you have time and mental strength to retry enough to get the random chance of what you want
• tension can be put on your skill, a lot of competitive fps games have no rng yet matches are tense
• actually hard disagree, rng encourages risky strats, have you seen what speedrunners do?
• can't really call smooth something that needs basically adjusting every time, don't you think

[marble gust]

so if the hw creator made a mald hw why follow them

[copper crescent]

But yeah I do think there is a point where rng might be too much

[old rose]

all of your points are specifically about the .01% of players that min max the fights

games are not designed around these players

[marble gust]

mario speedrunners

[pallid inlet]

If you’re a min maxer, you already know how rng is like

[loud knoll]

Most will miss units/stars to achieve proper copy

[past spruce]

Roblox obby speedrunners

[grim pine]

but only 0.01% of players care about score or so I am being told

so why is score an argument here?

[calm flicker]

Comparing with competitive fps games is quite farfetched

[past spruce]

Yeah

[old rose]

rng also makes speedruns more interesting because of how they handle the variance; praying for a crit/no crit, low stab, 1 eye stronghold, etc.

[marble gust]

ba vs fps games is lmfao

imagine valo had crit mald

[grim pine]

the point is not type of the game, the point is what differentiates the runs

[old rose]

even in fps games, some have damage variance, and the ones that don't, STILL add variance in the form of recoil and spread: this can be mitigated by skill (and it also can in BA!)

[summer dew]

fps game where headshot giving double damage only half of the time would be fun

[grim pine]

Maybe

[obsidian heath]

this is already a thing

[grim pine]

surely would be quite infuriating tho

[frail glen]

The recoil is indeed random

Running shooting is basically crit

[calm flicker]

Beside, like any games, you have both side

One plays casually

[frail glen]

Also like, there def is more games with fluctuating dmg range, crit chance etcetc than ones without

[calm flicker]

Other is competitive

It's your choice to choose how u play

[grim pine]

this went kinda far off the rails but like I really feel that if chesed waves weren't random and students moved more preditably it would be better
I don't really into saying that crit rng and other things need to be eliminated too
But IMO movement is one of the most flaky parts of BA gameplay

[orchid axle]

Bruh no way my game crashed again

[grim pine]

chesed exaggerates it with random spawns

[calm flicker]

Old Kurokage

Old Goz

[past spruce]

Not really random

[grim pine]

at least feel better

[past spruce]

But makes sense

[marble gust]

is chesed spawns rly random

[dim frigate]

Can u put momoi into ur team comp yet

[old rose]

for ins they are

[marble gust]

tor?

[past spruce]

They meant the position

[old rose]

no

[pastel mortar]

Genuinely what team are you using where a single mob kills a run?

[past spruce]

When the mobs spawn

[calm flicker]

Insane Srkr

[past spruce]

Some move to the left

Well, one soldier does

[grim pine]

it doesn't kill the run

it makes it annoying and enfuriating

[frail glen]

Speedrunning i guess? There are instances where a single bot survives from cherino

[past spruce]

If you really want to know why they do that it's because of hitboxes

[calm flicker]

I mean, in terms of clearing, it shouldnt be too crazy

[grim pine]

why is this so confusing

[past spruce]

It isn't rng

[obsidian heath]

torment hotfixed much of the annoying rng yet people continue to point at ins and complain

[supple star]

[past spruce]

Its hitboxes

[marble gust]

p sure chesed saves some other mald you wouldve had in other raids in return of mobs mald

[calm flicker]

But if u are infuriated about not clearing a single mob

[orchid axle]

Yellow:

[calm flicker]

U are speedrunning atp

[grim pine]

like for a raid i want to mock it and have a strat
maybe i can account for one-two-three variances in the run

[supple star]

[old rose]

you're complaining about something that you have signed up for (malding)

[past spruce]

Miss

[grim pine]

but like not when every single run can have different student positions, mobs surviving etc

[frail glen]

Ngl try comfy strat

[grim pine]

ig too much to ask

[frail glen]

I was malding cherino, then decided to go comfy

Comfy strat really changes a person

[marble gust]

plays rng game, why this game has rng?

[past spruce]

Off-topic, but are you happy that Malkuth D on JP is braindead to clear?

[grim pine]

i alr finished

[strange ridge]

Incorrect summary: Give Cherino Bknd Gear where BG1 gives + 300 accuracy

[grim pine]

i didn't spoil myself, no

[pastel mortar]

They are basically scorechasing for plat atp, and don't want to admit they are speedrunning

[past spruce]

I think you'll be happy how easy it is

No rng

Like what you wanted

[grim pine]

ok ig

[past spruce]

But anyways, bosses will have some gimmicks that will annoy you

[grim pine]

having every run being different and thus not following the strat(s) i mocked == complaining about speedrunning

sure

[calm flicker]

Kurokage and its old eye mech

[frail glen]

Peroro shinny and ny kayoko ptsd striked me

[grim pine]

yeah that was ass too, and it was changed

[calm flicker]

Speedrunning

Just swap NYK with IMari

[west perch]

It wasn't that bad

[grim pine]

not wanting to deal with nyk randomly dying == speedrunning

[frail glen]

I dint have a 2nd team for peroro, 1 pan or nothing

[grim pine]

anything not particularly fun to deal with in a raid == speedrunning

[summer dew]

idk this raid has been pretty chill really.
day 1: clear all colors
day 2-4: try to improve in mock
day 5: notice hairloss and sweep all tix

[west perch]

bringing nyk to tor peroro is speedrunning in itself though

she is supposed to get killed in that raid

[calm flicker]

It’s actually not crazy for comfy clear Peroro Tor

It's basically 2x BHosh

[west perch]

that's the point of laser chaining

[calm flicker]

And eep

[frail glen]

I have to justify my kanoe pull somehow

[grim pine]

sorry multipan too expensive

[pastel mortar]

Not when you start calling controlling your student's movement rng

[past spruce]

Then you are willing to accept that you will have a bad time

[dim frigate]

Any mechanic that kills my run = bad

[west perch]

shiny hunt into 2 groggy is too big brain I know

[loud knoll]

You can bring nyk into non-speedrun and let her die. Boss is almost done by that point either way

[past spruce]

If you are doing tor

[calm flicker]

Well at least after 5.0, Peroro Tor gonna be even more comfy

[past spruce]

Yeah

It's not hard to do that

[calm flicker]

Since Kei is basically Blue BHosh

With ideal def

[strange ridge]

Blue buffer who will not die

[grim pine]

why is there a mechanic in insane that spawns different mobs in first wave, so that sometimes they won't all fit in nonomi aoe
can you explain to me what gameplay purpose does it achieve?

[strange ridge]

From a single sneeze

[carmine pulsar]

I was told there were cute gay boys here

[calm flicker]

I cleared it by simply using IMari instead of NYKayoko

[past spruce]

?

[strange ridge]

To not rely on 1 aoe that is not Cherjno

[calm flicker]

1 less headache to worry about

But

If u still want to bring NYK

[past spruce]

Go to bunker sir

[calm flicker]

U have acknownledged the risk

[past spruce]

It's 2 blocks to the left

[grim pine]

ah cherino aka miss half of mobs-rino

[obsidian heath]

leave

[grim pine]

see i got both cherino and nonomi here

[grim pine]

so i should have had a good experience

apparently

[dim frigate]

If it’s a problem that’s preventing you from progressing the game is telling you to bring more aoe

[past spruce]

Makoto is there bro

[grim pine]

yeah

[past spruce]

Why use Nonomi

When you see that she doesn't hit everyone

[grim pine]

gotta love using aoe on one remaining mob or wait for half a minute until it dies to aa

[calm flicker]

I assumed he borrowed Mika

[past spruce]

He has Makoto

On his skill cards

[grim pine]

makoto was the borrow btw

[past spruce]

Why use Nonomi

Who can't hit all of them

Than Makoto who can

[calm flicker]

SHasumi

[grim pine]

because 2nd wave is much better fit for her

[calm flicker]

[copper crescent]

• Deterministic problems are much less interesting due to someone else solving it before you do; they are also much harder to design, not very nice for the devs; executing steps perfectly is just do you have time and mental strength to practice something that doesn't require strategizing
• Frame perfect in this game is easy to do that everyone on top 100 can do them when given hw, this game at its core isn't a rhythm or fps game, and even in fps games, it's not much problem solving due to the strats already being well known
• risky strats are used by top speedrunners, you don't need risky strats to clear
• adjustment feels natural as it's a test of problem solving where you take into account what if something goes wrong and encounter that, and this game allows comfy options that don't need adjustments to clear

[grim pine]

if you use makoto in 1st wave there's even higher chance that with cherino and nonomi something will be left

[past spruce]

You have to deal with her not hitting mobs on wave 2 btw

[dim frigate]

At that point just borrow makoto just build the team to cycle faster

[past spruce]

That can also happen

[west perch]

No wdym speedruns aren't my only option?
That can't be true

[grim pine]

happened much rarer than first wave being out of nnm aoe at least in my limited experience

[past spruce]

What's the position of your units btw

[marble gust]

me comfy

defo not hinata missing every mob possible

[frail glen]

for a sec I thought this is chesed lunatic

[past spruce]

Pretty sure Nonomi on 1st slot will fix that problem

I think

[loud knoll]

Clubmate provided ue60 d.kayoko for research purposes, so I borrow her daily to send them money. Other colors sweep

[past spruce]

Even the s.mika 1pan is comfier than this tbh

[marble gust]

its no smika

[past spruce]

But that's just my opinion

[obsidian heath]

no way to kill with 3 openings with chiaki?

[past spruce]

Ahh

[marble gust]

thats why im using that lol

[marble gust]

D mood

[obsidian heath]

I know it's D mood but 3 openings

[past spruce]

Mika before Chiaki tho

[grim pine]

afaik then there's problem with the top furthest one

[marble gust]

she didnt even kill in 3 in indoor

well nvm i think she did but like

worse mood here anyway

[past spruce]

1st wave?

[copper crescent]

oh i just realized that probably was last purple chesed

[marble gust]

had to mika cleanup

[copper crescent]

wait what no

there's sseia

why not smika 1pan psmh

[past spruce]

No s.mika clear

[copper crescent]

ohhh

[marble gust]

me anti smika

all for chiaki smh

[grim pine]

sounds like ba gameplay is quite limited and it's difficult to envision better skill-based differentiation besides investments, timings and rng
well i'm not against ALL rng, it's just some examples of it seem completely unnecessary

[summer dew]

i succumbed to the trinity brainrot

[grim pine]

yea

[past spruce]

https://youtu.be/gehkj2NX6H0?si=wuS-pJCVzmMQcNGM

You can see in the video how they dealt with that problem

[marble gust]

they gave pausing an option

[copper crescent]

yes, I do think some rng is bad, but BA is a lot more than just invest, timings, and rng; the skills here is making rotation

[grim pine]

something tells the that run is mald af

[past spruce]

I don't know what you are talking about

[grim pine]

[past spruce]

But yeah

[copper crescent]

you haven't even gotten into rotation and hw making, so you don't rly have a say in skill-based differentiation

[marble gust]

yikes

[past spruce]

You can just AA the bottom right mob with S.Mika

[obsidian heath]

doable but not comfy

[past spruce]

And aim s.hanako to the stowaway mob

[marble gust]

walking into my finals test copying homeworks, damn this course kinda trash

[old rose]

you're missing the crit damage buff!!

[grim pine]

i wanna have say about annoying rng things
don't tell me raid complaint pass is only for those who make homeworks

[past spruce]

Is this bait?

[obsidian heath]

it's a joke

[past spruce]

I know

[copper crescent]

no, I'm not rebutting your argument about rng, I'm rebutting about the part where you say there's no skill-based differentiation in BA

[grim pine]

i didn't say no tho

i said it's limited in its gameplay framing

[marble gust]

we call it homeworks cus real people made the tls, expect it to have human-like rng

[copper crescent]

how, gameplay framing is so wildly different between resets

[marble gust]

its not like theres a perfect tl where every rng is solved

[grim pine]

gameplay framing aka what are your actions you can do in the game

[copper crescent]

if you say it's a lot of differences due to rng, it's already not limited to gameplay framing due to having many possible configurations between resets and comps

there is a lot about what actions you can do in the game

that's why we have a ton of different hw for comfy vs speedrunning

[marble gust]

i copied some jp guy hw and revised it myself and got a higher score

[copper crescent]

rotations and inputs are very different between comps, especially when your investment differs from that of the hw

[marble gust]

[young lotus]

[grim pine]

yeah and then you copy hw and get there

[copper crescent]

people here improvise when they don't have the invest needed, which requires problem solving

[past spruce]

Self cooking

[strange ridge]

Believe me, even HWs are not the solution to everything

[copper crescent]

them copying hw to get there doesn't mean there is limited in gameplay framing

[marble gust]

treat rng as the compensation you even had a hw to copy the first place, where op needed to rng + self cook to start with

[copper crescent]

if that is your point, a deterministic game design would be even more limited in gameplay framing

[strange ridge]

Sometimes HW that are copied just don't do enough

[copper crescent]

since if someone already discovers the optimal solution to the design, there's not much other than following hw frame by frame

[strange ridge]

And that's where some will do their own thing

[copper crescent]

this is why ppl plead the 5th

[strange ridge]

I copied a Binah Torment HW and even with 2 teams copied it wasn't enough.

[pallid inlet]

Y’all still on this argument?

[obsidian heath]

he's actually right the game would be better if it was deterministic (not that it could be done atp anyway)

the real issue is hws existing

[grim pine]

it is
what do you do in the battle besides using one of 3(5) ex skills

[copper crescent]

rotate differently between the 3/6 ex skills available

[strange ridge]

Observe

[marble gust]

well you say it as that easy

ofc theres gonna be compensations

[summer dew]

yes and no, i think they're running around circles atp

[marble gust]

instead of it being literally that easy

[dim frigate]

[grim pine]

I in fact did not say it was easy

[marble gust]

if game was ong choose one of these 3 ez win

[grim pine]

i said it was limited

[strange ridge]

Noice

[past spruce]

Gg

[copper crescent]

it's not limited, and I already presented my argument

[orchid axle]

I'll slacc

[copper crescent]

in that there exists a great many ways to do a raid

[past spruce]

Are you ready for 40m?

[copper crescent]

copying hw is not the only way, you can also make your own hw and rotation

[marble gust]

omw to play open world slop gachas

damn so diverse gameplay

[orchid axle]

my brain will not handle such a language

[past spruce]

Wow, look at that, stat malding for equipment

[marble gust]

stat rolling dice

[grim pine]

okay, limited compared to an something like fps game that has no rng in damage calculations
as in there you can move freely in 3d space etc, many more degrees of freedom compared to only using ex skills

[copper crescent]

the game allowing you to approach the raid with your own rotation that can significantly differ from the hw rotation means it's not limited to gameplay framing as it is part of gameplay framing

[marble gust]

which ba doesnt have (thank god

[grim pine]

hence ba needs some degree of rng for gameplay to not be completely bland

[past spruce]

True

[copper crescent]

fps is bland though

[past spruce]

That's most games

[marble gust]

yea

so

[copper crescent]

and also, you have to take into account the core design of a game

[marble gust]

u got the conclusion

[grim pine]

which i also never strongly opposed

what i said was
there are some rng elements that feel completely unnecessary and only annoy and infuriate

[marble gust]

damn my non open world gacha doesnt have open world combat

[grim pine]

ba is a rng game, true

[past spruce]

It's also your decision to not approach those rng elements if you don't like them

[copper crescent]

core design matters because otherwise your whole point would then be that 3d games are not limited in framing without considering the context of the game and thereby games not being 3d movement games mean the game is limited in design

[grim pine]

it does not mean that it could have some rng removed

[marble gust]

yea so like it or not

hsr stat rolling too rng

pls remove

[grim pine]

can you write a timeline for a successful cs2 match

[copper crescent]

no, because I don't play cs2

[grim pine]

well no one can

[past spruce]

CRK biscuits

[grim pine]

such concept doesn't exist there

[past spruce]

[spice spoke]

unknown movements is a source of RNG

[copper crescent]

but timeline wise it does not significantly matter because the rng is different between pvp and pve game

[spice spoke]

fog of war exists to add RNG to games

[copper crescent]

you're comparing pvp games to a pve game and saying the pve game is bad because it doesn't have the core element of a pvp game

which is not an appropriate comparison

[grim pine]

but i think pvp would be a better comparison anyway because like above mentioned other player's behaviour could be seen as a form of rng

[orchid axle]

guys the explosion missed

[summer dew]

ahaha murimuri

[copper crescent]

yes, and there is no pvp input in this game, it is not designed that way at its core

[grim pine]

so you'd say something like chesed random wave spawns substitute what could be enemy player actions you can't predict?

[copper crescent]

you cannot expect rng from players in this game

[loud knoll]

Wouldn't happen if you use s.hiyori

[copper crescent]

no, I would not say chesed rng is an enemy player action because chesed bots don't have a brain

you're comparing fighting a bot vs fighting a human

that's not an appropriate substitution

[grim pine]

yea that's true
because if i get headshot at least there's understanding that ok, that guy probably is better at aiming/positioning than me, fair
but dealing with chesed just makes me mad

[orchid axle]

Sadly I don't have her

[spice spoke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSg408i-eKw

[loud knoll]

Its mostly a joke, just restart and she won't miss hopefully (hiyori unironically good for that though)

[spice spoke]

luck in a game is best when it's something you react and adapt to

[grim pine]

or when in tiph boss pulls your team after sequence but because aoba was slightly off the position she gets stuck near the core spot instead of joining with the rest of the team

why does this need to exist

[spice spoke]

the problem is that with top raid scores is there is no "adapt" if you want a top score you just have to reset

[pallid inlet]

Tiphareth rng is understandable

[past spruce]

That is mostly your input tbh

[spice spoke]

if it was you get 1 chance to clear and have to adapt to still clear and there wasn't so much focus on perfect timing, the RNG wouldnt be so terrible

[past spruce]

Where you placed Aoba ex skill

[copper crescent]

luna could've been designed to be very rng reliant so much that to clear you'd have to reset many times, but no

[grim pine]

or when in peroro boshi kills minions in slightly different order so that nyk runs to the rightmost front position and doesn't get knocked back when next wave spawns

[pallid inlet]

That’s very much on you

[copper crescent]

it's designed so that having the invest to clear would get you a clear with average rng

[loud knoll]

Everything reposition-related is pretty bad

[past spruce]

True

[loud knoll]

Social distancing

[pallid inlet]

Truth nuke

[grim pine]

true, it took some notice to avoid that

[past spruce]

You can't really control those as much

[copper crescent]

but yeah positioning rng is kinda aeugh

[past spruce]

Also AA

[pallid inlet]

Position rng is always bad no matter what

[copper crescent]

it's valid rng if not too much but not rly a popular design choice

[grim pine]

still kinda annoying, just pull them always, are we really missing something by not doing that?

[pallid inlet]

Huh

[grim pine]

well not really, since the order of minions dying is very dependent on crits and aas

[dim frigate]

Experimental seia movement rng

[past spruce]

Like I said, you can only mitigate the rng so that it isn't as painful

That's why we have ex skill timings for most balders to follow

[copper crescent]

yeah the game does have anti-rng options

[past spruce]

To influence positioning

And that's still pretty annoying

[grim pine]

some rng yes, some rng doesn't need to be in the game
positioning is i think the worst to deal with
if it's not related to you using repo skill it shouldn't be the issue to work around

[pallid inlet]

When are you malding repos without using a repo skill

[past spruce]

You can also influence when the units will use their basic skills

Via also ex skill timing

The wakamo Kuroko comp for Goz shows that

[grim pine]

that's annoying too but at least manageable (as in you have direct action for that)

[copper crescent]

well their point is that your position being rng due to being crit/eva mald shouldn't be there bc it's not related to repos

but that is just chesed being chesed

[past spruce]

The most bs thing on Chesed is him having 200 evasion

[pallid inlet]

More than anything

[past spruce]

That's the rng I want to be removed

[pallid inlet]

If he had 0 evasion that would be good

[copper crescent]

mobbing at its core is inconsistent

[grim pine]

ok one good thing in chesed is at least it's very feasible to separate mobbing from boss

[copper crescent]

since the chance for a full wave clear is wildly different between your mobbing options

[young lotus]

[copper crescent]

shanako on purple always clears, cherino on yellow nah

[grim pine]

imo i'd remove acc and stab from raids, unless a very special mechanic with tools with
for damage crits are enough I think, especially since we have class of students to buff those stats

[past spruce]

Miss Miss 58k Miss Miss

[grim pine]

and always/never/sometimes crit students as a choice at least in some cases

[pallid inlet]

There’s always and never crit students

[grim pine]

so crit seems at least some involved choice on player's part

meanwhile stab is just uhh get fucked or not i guess have fun

[copper crescent]

dhina

[grim pine]

same with acc

[copper crescent]

set

[pallid inlet]

D hina has max stab on ex skills

[copper crescent]

I do agree acc is not rly a great thing to mald tho

[frozen chasm]

Wow discord mobile sucks

[pallid inlet]

Set grants max stab when groggy

[grim pine]

dhina is with great power comes great mald

[frozen chasm]

[spice spoke]

There are students with better stability and thus "less fucked" by it

[grim pine]

it's rarely a choice though

[copper crescent]

they're likely removing binah's acc and stab debuff

world raid has that removed

[pallid inlet]

That was such a dumb thing to even have in the first place imo

[grim pine]

it's almost like nexon has a mald triangle of something like crit - stab - acc, and they always balance students equally in it

[past spruce]

With Mika and Nozomi is with guaranteed crits come with stab malding and accuracy malding