Vengance build

[spring oyster]

Trying to make this my main ship so wanna make it best i can

[outer wave]

I see you've taken previous building help sessions to heart and created a really good "first draft" of your build. Good work, keep it going 🙂

Still a few notes tho:

• Red matter, the Weapons battery and Aux battery have a shared cooldown. Imho: Toss RMC & Weapons bat and use only the Aux battery, as this will give more power to your FPNA

For the ENG seat:
/ (+OSS3 for more power to FPNA and +1 uncon proc compared to your current state)
You don't need 3 emergency power abilities, as you only can comfortly cycle 2 of them
If you really need the survivability from keep that in the 4th slot there (on rank 3 obv.)
Downranking EPtW in favor of OSS3 is definitely worth it, especially when FPNA is in play too.

For the universal=> SCI seat:
(+1 uncon proc)

For the TAC seat:
if available, you might find use for instead of

rest of the bridge looks solid imho

maybe exchange the lone Lorca console (no counterpart for the 2pc) for something else; colony TAC console maybe?

DECS:
worth a try to go for disco deflector and Bolstered Comp engines, since that should have sufficient procs to provide mobility (opposed to Innervated that only would have FaW).

[spring oyster]

Oke ty 🙂

Atm i wanna focus on gettinkg 100k dil to get 5th starship trait slot, then ill go step by step to improve it with your advices

[spring oyster]

Which colony tac console?

[outer wave]

Energetic Protomatter Matrix Infuser [Kinetic] [your dmg type]

[spring oyster]

Thought gonna be vulnerability detector

[outer wave]

That would be fleet spire consoles.
And they can't be mixed with isomags, since both are advanced consoles

[spring oyster]

Hmmm

Which one is better? Colony or spire consoles?

[outer wave]

if you are going down that rabbit hole, you'd need to compare Isomags vs. spire consoles and take your general crit chance as a factor, since spire consoles provide some (the Vulnerability Locators at least), while Isomags don't, but significantly push your overall weapon power (more wpn power = more dmg and if you run out of wpn power, weapons stop shooting).

But I'm not versed enough to do that math myself. I usually recommend a setup based on console slots available, folowing a probably (slightly) dated table tbh.

If your goal is fine-tuning, someone else needs to step up to help you. 🫣

[spring oyster]

No really fine tune atm, just curious since i see more and more rainbow builds so im thinking now should i just replace iso mags with spire consoles for beam dmg for example

But if i do that im gonna lose 34 weapon power from isomags...

Actualy 41, forgot i have one in universal slot

[outer wave]

@pearl ermine
I invoke a more experienced and knowing helper to shed more light on the isomag vs Spire console dilemma

[spring oyster]

Hahahahhaha 😂

Ohh btw, i cant buy colony tac consoles yet, fleet only got lvl 3 Renewable energy and it requires lvl 5.....

[pearl ermine]

honestly at this point i think it's safe to always recommend isomags.
loactors are only ever superior if on a ship with more tac consoles than eng consoles and when having the exact right amount of universal consoles so your eng slots aren't wasted but you're still using all tac+uni slots for locators

[pearl ermine]

if your fleet has provisions and you have permission to use provisioned stores, maybe someone from another fleet can invite you to their colony so you can buy the consoles there. i'm pc unfortunately so can't inv you myself, but i'm sure if you ask in #ask-questions-here or #fleet-recruitment , someone will be willing to send you an invite

[outer wave]

beat me to it ^^
was about to say the same

[pearl ermine]

not a very high priority here tho. the consoles in tac are already on par with Infusers

Lukari and AssMod both have a set bonus with a weapon on the ship, so all an Infuser would do is provide extra durability. which is only worthwhile if you are having trouble staying alive

as for Lorca - i'm not 100% sure (i.e. haven't mathed it out), but generally speaking it's about on par if not a bit superior to an Infuser, even without its set bonus (was often used instead of the last Locator before isomags were a thing)

[spring oyster]

My curent lorca:

I think both torpedo and dbb dont fit real well in here

[pearl ermine]

dbb definitely doesn't fit. torp is a matter of taste - i doubt it would gain or lose you any notable amount of performance (you'd just need to replace tac team with torp spread)

but the crit chance and shield pen alone (120 shield pen is equal to 6% extra bleedthrough) are pretty good already

[spring oyster]

Do FPNA and Arbiter battle cruiser trait stack?

[outer wave]

I guess so. 🤔

[spring oyster]

Thats good

[pearl ermine]

last time i checked, they did. been a while tho.
however, your tooltips may not represent this, because when you have a fully buffed FPNA active, the extra haste from EWC amounts to less than 0.1 seconds lower cycle time, which may not show up in the tooltip due to rounding

[spring oyster]

So should i activate both at same time or use them seperatly to maximise faster fire cycles?

[spring oyster]

Updated a bit, ill go step by step as you suggested
Placed all aux batteries, cleared some inventory and i wont activate wrong one in combat 😂
Eng seat did as you said since i dont have trouble staying alive for now
Sci seat same
Tac seat, im still using tac team since that bastard kemocite is still too much for me to pay
As for desco ill try your suggestion but might return to curent, will see when i get the gear and try it out

Ohh and abouth fifth starship trait idk what to put so i just put Hypnotic Mindwave, i have avilable:
Asclepius Engine
Improved Predictive Algorithms
The Best Defense
Team Sinergy
Flagship Staffing

[spiral wharf]

For console, no, I’d leave EPTW on auto and keep EPTE on your hotbar here, you’ll get the haste the entire time EPTW lasts.

Do you have Custom Power Matrix off of the Eleos? If you do, you can slot that and drop Photonic officer for another uncon trigger

[spring oyster]

I dont have that console

[spring oyster]

Are there any devices worth using except aux battery?

[pearl ermine]

deuterium surplus

and the new antares beacon (once it becomes available, iirc console is still at the feat evenTt?)

Reactive Armor Catalysts provide a nice emergency temp hp buffer

[spring oyster]

Oke ty 🙂

[spring oyster]

Do this and deuterium surplus have shared cd with aux batery?

[pearl ermine]

Deuterium shares no cd

Armor cats share a reduced cd, but that's not usuay a problem since they're not spammed

[spring oyster]

Oke, ty

[spring oyster]

https://youtu.be/jTg9E3WnoRA?t=1123

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwc-CAgSeB0

Sent these here to save them for later

[spring oyster]

https://youtu.be/cLvQSpZ2qQk

[spring oyster]

https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/1m6ltvy/comment/n4kpnha/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

[spring oyster]

Would hellbore light be good on this setup?

[pearl ermine]

you'd need to either sacrifice APB or CIF, or downgrade FAW to rank 1, to be able to slot CRF as a trigger. but the damage from that trait is pretty good

[outer wave]

Beat me to it^^

Probably sacrifice one uncon proc for CRF dummy I'd say, if you really want to include HBL.

[spring oyster]

Oke

Then another question

Im curently practicing cannons, i switched faw3 for csv2 and tac team for faw1

Now if i get helbore just switch faw for BO

[outer wave]

Reasonable change; gives you best CSV possible and adds a dummy trigger for stuff like comp engines or protomatter consoles

[spring oyster]

I kinda think that would be best investment for traits atm

Ofc if i exclude WB which ill wait for klingon recruitment event

[outer wave]

Very sensible choice!

Using a truly free ship you get at some point instead of a token or cash is always preferred.

[pearl ermine]

might be worth waiting for the stats of the anniv ships (both bundle and event) to drop tho.

[outer wave]

Very eager to see what is in there (not that I'm still debating if I get it or not, that is already decided).

[spring oyster]

Do we get some t6 coupon from anniv giveaway?

[outer wave]

We don't officially know yet.
There were hints (and expectations from previous years) tho.

[spring oyster]

Was last year coupon in some way restricted?

Like these from campaign

[outer wave]

Can't tell. Haven't use a single coupon in forever ^^

[spring oyster]

Oke ty 🙂

Il ljust wait foe that, aint gonna save up much on this sale on small amount 😂

[pearl ermine]

someone said it was confirmed at some point in the recent stream

[fervent bay]

It’s been reported on Reddit fwiw

[spring oyster]

Small update, added Hellbore Light and upgraded to T6-X2

[pearl ermine]

might wanna replace Best Defense tho

[spring oyster]

Is Broadside Emmitter Arrays good on here?
And thinking shpuld i change Eye of Grethor for Krenim Chronophage

[spring oyster]

With what? 😂

All i got left 😂

[pearl ermine]

haven't done any tests on it myself, but afaik BEA isn't really a strong performer.
Eye depends on how much use you get out of its crowd control aspect. Not good damage but the pseudo-gravwell can be quite useful.
Chronophage is definitely a good call. personally i'd probably replace BEA here

[pearl ermine]

One Impossible Thing At A Time should be decently cheap on the exchange.

[spring oyster]

Got it, replaced Best Defence

It was 2,5mil

[pearl ermine]

bit more expensive than on pc, but honestly worth it.

[spring oyster]

Is there any exchange trait thats worth changing Hearth of Sol?

[pearl ermine]

nope

if any, Target-Rich would be your next weakest trait. but no need to replace it imho

[spring oyster]

Got better 🙂

[spring oyster]

Cant belive it got better by for sure 30k dps with just that trait, hellbore light

[spiral wharf]

Hellbore thrives in elite because of the way it functions, so I’m not surprised you saw some gains, but there’s also piloting to consider

Also, just a note, you’ll want to use the large dual aux batteries for FPNA

[spring oyster]

Those are crafted right?

[spring oyster]

Well im used to argala so i know what gonna pop up where so i tried to position acordinly

[pearl ermine]

Craftable in the eng and sci schools. Or purchasable on the exchange (crafting is cheaper but slightly less convenient)

[spring oyster]

Best hangar pets i can slot in here are elite type 7s?

[pearl ermine]

Aye

[spring oyster]

I changed hangar pet for elite type 7s and changed 2 bridge officers for SRO ones 🙂

[floral sage]

You already have a firing mode extender, FPNA+Type 7s and Hellbore. So you already got some really good C-store stuff already.

You have UnconSys, but no SFTF console, so I won't suggest the usual Krait toys yet.

As this appears to be a broadside FAW build, the next C-store purchase I'd suggest is the Kerala. For Broadside Combat Module and Broadside Beam Support.

BCM and BBS both will still perform very well on non-Phaser builds.

[spring oyster]

Im planing on getting 12th aniv bundle when it gets on sale ofc, does that change anything?

[floral sage]

The 12th Anni Bundle does not include the Kerala, so no.

[spring oyster]

I know, just wanted to ask

[pearl ermine]

That would add the possibility to use SAD and Agony Redistributor. Doesn't clash with the Broadside stuff

[spring oyster]

Would be disapointed if less than 2 or 3 things from there could be usefull, and i mean consoles and traits

[floral sage]

This implies that you are getting the 12th Anni bundle without first already knowing exactly how it will benefit your build progression

You do you, but I would suggest knowing what you are getting out of it before committing to purchase.

[spring oyster]

Aint gonna lie, i do not know all details what gonna be useful or not, im getting it mostly for mirror strike wing escort

[floral sage]

The 12th Bundle is not the only way to get the Mirror Engle

[spring oyster]

But buying bundle would probably be better than just buying zen or keys, and ill get it on all characters

My like you guys say napkin math 😂 is that buying keys or zen to buy keys to get that ship for one character is a bit less expensie than getting the bundle and having all those ships for whole acc is better

[floral sage]

Do you NEED to have the Mirror Engle account-wide?

And is that need worth ~115 USD even after a discount?

Of course, getting the entire 12th Anni bundle while on 35% sale is a far better value buy in terms of qty of ships per dollar, but those other ships you get won't matter if you're only interested in the single one.

[spring oyster]

Umm need is not exactly the word id use.. it would be good to have it, all mx other characters are pretty weak

But now that i looked a bit on other ships i dont see much use of them (i might be wrong)

What are other ways to get mirror wing one?

[pearl ermine]

Bundle is 11'375z on sale
From a meta perspective, you're getting
-> mirror engle
-> agony redistributor
-> one t6 token
Plus 6 ship upgrades (worth about 60 mil ec each last i checked).

If you napkin it, the value per zen isn't terrible. Clocking the two regular cstore ships in at 2400z each, that leaves the engle plus upgrades at 6575.
Not the best bundle in terms of what you get for your zen, but imho certainly more efficient than getting two ships regularly and the engle via ec

[pearl ermine]

Event campaign, or buying one for ec

[pearl ermine]

Not much use from a meta perspective - but quite nice from a thematic or barbie perspective - since you're getting defiant, intrepid, galaxy, and odyssey ships, all 4 of them stronger than their prime cstore counterparts (and iirc they can fly the vanilla skin for free).
Trailblazer console, and trailblazer and lexington traits are decent accountwide filler for some builds. I don't have an overview of what stuff you own, but i'd estimate that if you're doing some epg builds you'll probably find use for the trailblazer traits.

[spring oyster]

Event campaign is too far away 😂 as for ec im too poor...

[pearl ermine]

If you buy keys and convert them to ec, you're getting about 10-15 mil per 100z. I'd say in this case the bundle may be the better deal.

[floral sage]

Yeah, looks like getting the single character unlock is currently more expensive than the bundle at 35% discount.

[spring oyster]

Well i didnt expect a table like that, im amazed

[pearl ermine]

On first glance this looks like it's assuming buying keys one by one and for regular price tho. Might be worth also calculating for keys in a 10 or 20 pack at 15% discount

[floral sage]

Yeah I kept the key cost at 125 Zen for simplicity

Changing it to 112.5 Zen assuming 10 keyring bundle:

[pearl ermine]

(Discount would be lowering the $ per ec ratio by a factor of (1125/10 *0.85)/125=0.765, cutting the ship price down to $105

[floral sage]

Oh right, it also goes on discount.

But I think Slavuj gets the picture.

[pearl ermine]

Yeah, doesn't change the outcome. Lockbox ships are just so absurdly expensive that the cstore variant is almost certainly preferable as long as anything else of value is in the bundle.

[spring oyster]

Then its better to get 12th bundle if i got it righr

Im at work so dont mind if im mistaken

[spring oyster]

Im curious about this rainbow build i put together, just quick thoughs, i dont have any better consoles to slot atm i think...

Menaged this with it:

[floral sage]

Can't tell without the full build.

[spring oyster]

Ill send tonight when i get home, made few changes

Or just make new thread?

[floral sage]

If it's still your Vengeance, then it can remain in this thread.

[spring oyster]

It is

[floral sage]

Your Spire consoles, what mods are they?

[spring oyster]

Beam dmg and crit chance

I actually replaced Broadside emiter arrays with Hull Image Refractor

[floral sage]

Ah, that's fine for a rainbow beam build.

[floral sage]

I'd replace Piezo-Electric Focuser first, since that console only benefits 2 out of 6 of your different energy flavours.

The other console that should be eventually replaced is your generic Tact Console and AssMod, later down the line.

Other things:

• Your BOFF abilities layout is currently pretty solid, for what you have right now. So this can remain.

• Invest in Intelligence Agent Attache personal trait, then you can replace One Impossible Thing At A Time with a better ship trait.

• Your Engines power should be higher. Let the Aux battery take care of Aux power for FPNA.

[spring oyster]

For consoles, well they gotta stay for some time, cant really buy any ships atm

[spring oyster]

Ill look into that when i get the chance, not home for couple of days

[spring oyster]

20 aux power enough? Or just drop it to 15?

And ty for help 😃

[floral sage]

Dump it completely

[spring oyster]

Oke, will do

[pearl ermine]

Normally, dumping aux all the way to 15 will still have it at 30 current power thanks to warp core efficiency and similar buffs. 30 is the goal to hit with current power so that the battery gets it to max