Legendary Valdore Passive "Get Things Done" Build

[rigid pendant]

Not for elite content, we're optimizing for "getting things done" like story content, event TFOs, reputation grinds, etc.
Goal: Passive Plasma Romulan theme build.

• All Bridge Crew are Elite SROs.
• The 4 active space reputation traits are all I have.
• Captain is Tactical Career, Intelligence Officer (all space skills), Strategist (all skills), and Command (11 points of space skills)
  (This should be the "Baby Steps" recommendation, IIRC.)
• I have the Premium T6 Starship Choice coupon from the event campaign, and two 100% discount coupons too, if I need to chase any traits, consoles, or other items.
• All of my Reputations are Lv. 5, or very close to being Lv. 5. I have R&D Cannons at 15, still working the rest. I don't have many Endeavors to speak of. I'm possibly missing important Accolades as I'm only 5 months into the game. I have not finished all the story content but could probably grind out the rest in a dedicated weekend if I needed to.
• I have a Crafted Plasma Omni currently in the queue with 19 hours to go that is not shown.
• I have the Legendary Battle Cruiser, Legendary Romulan Warbird, and Legendary First Strike bundles. I also have the Achilies MW heavy destroyer and Malem Warbird from the Elite Romulan Captain package.
• I am in a maxed out fleet.

I think that's all the relevant bits, let me know if I've missed something. This is working rather well for me. I only explode in advanced TFOs when I've gotten sloppy and certain patrols where the enemies have space magics I don't understand. That said I'm sure it could be working better, of course. I have specialization seating I'm not using, for example. Thank you for your help and advice.

[twin cloud]

Not for elite content, we're optimizing for "getting things done" like story content, event TFOs, reputation grinds, etc.
If that's the goal, then you want as much ship speed as possible to complete space TFO or story mission objectives quick.

Which means Competitive Rep Prevailing Engines, Evasive Maneuvers, Emergency Power to Engines and Deuterium Surplus.

[rigid pendant]

I've not noticed too much trouble getting from point A to B. If something attacks me I'm locked out of max impulse for a time, but I've assumed that's normal and happens to everyone.

[twin cloud]

With these, you are basically at max impulse even during combat.

Which is why they are a staple for all DPS builds.

[rigid pendant]

Honestly if the ship is too zippy I overshoot everything and have to turn around and come back. My personal piloting isn't ready for going much faster than I am without more practice. My failing, not the ship's.

[twin cloud]

My failing, not the ship's.
Practice makes perfect.

[rigid pendant]

This ship does have a nice turn rate. I had a [Turn]x4 engine on my L-D'deridex because it moves like a truck.

[twin cloud]

Turn rate does not help you complete objectives faster.

[rigid pendant]

It allows me to bring my cannons to bear, which then makes things go boom. It /seems/ to be making things go faster.

The omni / hexas do make things go boom when I'm not facing them, but much more slowly.

Not disagreeing, but [Turn] seems to fit my current skill level and playstyle very well. As I get more experience, I'll work on going faster and not missing my marks since this isn't the first time I've heard that's important.

Also... completing objectives faster appears to drive DPS chasing. I'm not DPS chasing. Simply completing objectives at all is very nice right now. Hopefully I'm not too annoying to others in Normal / Advanced TFOs. I seem to be one of the big guns in most of them already though I haven't run any parses on this build yet.

If I'm pointed at it, it seems to explode in one volley, or two at most, sometimes without a firing mode even active.
Save for the biggest bosses of course.

[twin cloud]

Not for elite content, we're optimizing for "getting things done" like story content, event TFOs, reputation grinds, etc.
So then what exactly what do you mean by "getting things done" if not completing objectives faster?

[rigid pendant]

I am not chasing DPS, nor Elite content. I'm completing story content, event TFOs, grinding out Endeavors, getting marks for rep gear... does that make sense?

[twin cloud]

I'm completing story content, event TFOs, grinding out Endeavors
And completing objectives faster is somehow antithetical to these?

Just trying to understand what exactly you're going for here.

[rigid pendant]

I'm sorry, I don't think we're talking the same language. Flying fast = flying sloppy at my skill level. I feel I will complete things faster with care and precision.

Just looking for stupid mistakes and improvements not obvious to me.

[twin cloud]

Do you wish to improve your skill level?

[rigid pendant]

That will come with time. I'm not training for the Olympics, I'm enjoying a game.

[twin cloud]

You need to expose yourself to it to get better at it.

Maybe not all at once

Like, start with just Deuterium Surplus

Speed boost on demand.

Then move to Evasive + ECH. Another speed boost on demand.

Comp Rep Engines does take some getting used to, so that can come later.

[rigid pendant]

I'm very sorry, more speed seems to me to be a solution to a problem I'm not having.

It feels like it would be wasted on me, taking up slots that could equip things that help me in ways that better fit my playstyle today.

[twin cloud]

Or it's a problem that you have yet to recognize.

[rigid pendant]

Yes, that is almost certainly the case.

[twin cloud]

Any other build experts coming into this thread will give you the same advice that I have.

So instead of dismissing it outright, have a think on it.

[rigid pendant]

If I'm dismissive, I've felt this has been a little argumentative. I've explained that incresing the speed of this ship will result in me overshooting targets. That [Turn] as appeared to help me bring the narrow arc of cannons to bear better, allowing me to make things go boom faster in TFOs like the current Swarm event TFO. Yes, I can get from lane to lane in Swarm, usually. Unless something shoots me en-route and disables my full impulse when heading from Alpha to Gamma.

When that happens, I'm usually close to something else I can make go boom anyway, so it's not like I've been idle in Swarm.

[lime pond]

I second @twin cloud with the comp engines, evasive manuvers with the emergency conn doff, epte and deutorium surplus
It helps you get from a to b but all of these also only activate at your leasure
well except the engins, but you get used to them reall quick

what you can do is fly at half impulse and just take advantage of the bonus turn rate it all gives

the benefit is that these are also all the things you'll eventually want for elite, so its like practice

you can always turn up story difficulty up to elite, but im assuming your only doing normal/advanced for now, for which your build is already strong enough

[rigid pendant]

I can certainly give it a try, but that's improving me, not this build.

[lime pond]

well it still improves the build, as its a very meta engine and doff combo

[rigid pendant]

I haven't tried turning the story to Elite yet. I was having trouble at Advanced in the L-D'deridex (much slower turn, much more inertia). And I would die in patrols a lot.

[lime pond]

and if you fly at half or quarter impulse, these speed boosts will only boost you up to what feels normal, but still give you exta turn so you can aim faster

[rigid pendant]

I often fly at half or quarter today, so as not to overshoot and to turn tighter toward nearby enemies.

[lime pond]

eventually when you'll want to dip your toe at dps or elites, the meta way for cannons is getting into position fast and parking while you shoot any way

[rigid pendant]

I feel I would agree much more if I were flying a broadside FAW ship. I could go much faster and care far less about facing in a ship like that.

[lime pond]

which is a large reason why these components are valued

[rigid pendant]

I think that's future-me problems. I'm not there yet and I know it.

[lime pond]

I can actually link you a relativly similar build i've done here, you'll notive it has all the thigs @twin cloud recommended

[rigid pendant]

I may make a FAW build next, so as to practice with the engines you suggest. That does sound like a really good idea from what I'm hearing from you both.

[lime pond]

https://discord.com/channels/889102180332732436/1380593710164738099

the most updated version is at the bottom

[rigid pendant]

Nice. My first T5 was the cheap Hirgen off the exchange, and it was the first time flying a ship felt fun.

[lime pond]

generally for other upgrades you'd want the colony deflectors
if you dont want the speed from the comp engines right now, you can get the romulan reputation engine, its an off meta dps option

what are your power setting set to right now actually?

[rigid pendant]

Somewhere among the myriad builds I've read / videos I've watched it stuck with me the Tilly/Stammets set was a good set to aim for. Was that wrong?

Max weapons, locked, max Aux, locked, shields and engines at the resulting minimums. I should have screen shot that.

[lime pond]

the disco set has a really strong 2pc for survival, and its shield is a very strong offensive option
so people usually use the warp/singulatirty core with the shield for the effect even thou the cores are meh

[rigid pendant]

Literally everything says max weapon power always. The rest seems to sort of depend.

[lime pond]

ah, try man weapons and then the rest into engins, you might be having issues with mobility because of your engine power

[rigid pendant]

As in "cores are meh" or "the disco core is meh compared to other cores". I have exactly that, the sheld and core.

[lime pond]

yea what you have right now is good in terms of shield and core, as the 2pc makes up for the core not being that great

[rigid pendant]

Will give that a shot. I think aux at max is from a build that does not match or relate to mine. It's just where I left it.

[lime pond]

the deflector definitly youd want the colony prevailing one, its just a great offensive one

the engine if you dont want the mobility, which I still recommend you get, you can get the romula on instead as its a nich one for DEW

[lime pond]

aux max is usually for carriers as the timer to lunch pets scales with aux, and some sci builds that scale with aux, and torp builds as they dont need weapon power

while FPNA needs aux, its only at cast so thats maintined with aux batteries

[rigid pendant]

the way you present that, yes, that feels like it fits my play style and would be more fun for me than just going faster... but I will give both a try for sure!

[paper cloak]

Speed also translates to turn.

Also since you have thirst.. why not Ship of the Line?

[lime pond]

the honor guard engine is also a decent option, as it has a cleanse build in

[rigid pendant]

I have heard that too. But to turn inside other ships, I tend to slow down so I can turn tighter. Going fast and turning results in huge wide sweeping arcs in my personal experience... might be doing it wrong, that's very likely. I joined half way through the summer this year and will be the first to admit I've spent more time in ESD doing Admiralty, DOFFs and Research than flying.

[rigid pendant]

I don't know. I picked things that appeared to buff CritH or damage.

That might be just the sort of "obvous mistake" I was hoping to learn about here.

I'm pretty sure I have used Ship of the Line at some point. I'm not sure what I dropped it for.

[paper cloak]

You can be sitting still, hit evasive, and spin in place on a dime as well. Getting the speed down while moving from position to position just takes time and practice. But if you want to maximize damage.. then this game is all about traveling to point A as fast as possible.. parking in place.. shooting.. rinse/repeat.

I'd drop algorithms for SotL. It's 50% crit D and all you have to do is cycle EPtX abilities.

[rigid pendant]

I'll give that a try, though I don't have any EPtX slotted.

[lime pond]

oh abilities wise, drop cannon rapid fire, it locks you out of cannon scatter volly for which you have an extender

[rigid pendant]

It requires a click. Clicks are bad.

[paper cloak]

You have EPtS and EPtW in that boff layout

[rigid pendant]

Oh... ok. I was thinking something else then...

[paper cloak]

And also yeah drop CRF.. it's not doing anything for you with withering barrage

[rigid pendant]

Cannon Rapid Fire will come off cooldown before CSV does. I use them alternatively.

The cooldown of the off-firing-mode is half the on-firing mode.

[lime pond]

switch tact team 2 with beta 1
the tact teams you would usually switch with FAW and torpedo spread for engine and late cultural conquest triggers

[paper cloak]

Probably because you seem to have no cooldown reduction on that build. You could make that Lt command a sci station and slot photonic 2 or drop HE 2 and use PO 1.

[rigid pendant]

I'm confused, without CRF, I'd be no-firing-mode waiting on CSV.

[lime pond]

with proper cooldown reduction, csv has 14/15 up time

and that one second usually dosent matter as your already in the middle of a firing cycle

[rigid pendant]

I have not been able to achieve that yet.

[lime pond]

give me a little bit of time, and I'll draw you some suggestion for the boffs setups

do you have the boimler trait?

if not how much ec do you have at hand?

[rigid pendant]

I also do have some specialization skills. I got Recursive Shearing, but it has not out-performed CSV for me.

I think around 100 mil, but I can sell some keys...

I do not have Boimler yet. I do have the Lobi for it.

I might have Photonic Officer somewhere, but slotting it took away something that seemed more important to my playstyle...

[lime pond]

Generally it's more efficient to get lobi traits for ec

But if you have like 2000 lobi, go for ot

[rigid pendant]

Probably Hazard Emmitters? I use that to fix low hull?

[lime pond]

Boimler is a staple in pretty much all builds, and its a major component of your possible cd reduction solution

[rigid pendant]

Around 1600... whatever the campaign gave me + about 200 more?

I was saving for the altamid set, but I've heard that has fallen far out of favor.

[lime pond]

Then you could probably get it for lobi
Not as effective as waiting for a lobi sale but we just had one so ot might take a while of you'll wait

[rigid pendant]

I can be patient. I have plenty of grinding yet to do. All that purple gear is waiting on the next upgrade weekend.

[lime pond]

Either way whatever cooldown solution we work on, boimler is the end goal

[rigid pendant]

(and knowing it's the right thing to upgrade, as in it isn't a mistake and should be replaced, like the engines we've been discussing)

[lime pond]

We can start with a bit cheaper but more build space expensive solutions like a2b

Yea boimler is a definite "get" whatever build you make

[rigid pendant]

I can have boimler from the lobi store next time I log in. ^_^. I tried A2B early on when I upgraded my bridge crew to elites. It required a lot of clicking. I fat fingered everything. It was a disaster.

[lime pond]

Boimler + photonic officer 1 + chrono capacitor is basically how you get minimum cooldowns on everything

Might be able to drop chrono capacitor as wrll

[rigid pendant]

I'm told there's builds out there everyone here considers boring. Boring but effective is my goal here, in many respects.

[lime pond]

Yea it takes more execution
I suggested looking into how to make a macro in game

[rigid pendant]

I do have PO at some level somewhere.

I'd have to log in to check.

[lime pond]

Ill do the boff layout assuming boimler then

[rigid pendant]

I have not sunk the money into a cindarian yet, though I'm told that's the ultimate in boring. 😉

[lime pond]

Its just... 🗿 The whole match

[rigid pendant]

Back with the Terran TFO where you shuttle boarding parties, I'd love it when a space squid showed up. Made that TFO so easy.

OK, current take-aways.... Boimler. Romulan Rep Sing Core. Some method of getting from A-B when needed despite my desire for a sub-optimal engine.

That breaks my tilly stammets set, so look for some other set...

And bring in Ship of the Line.

[lime pond]

No no, i recommend the Romulan engin not core
So you're disco shield and core remain

[rigid pendant]

OH thank you for clarifying!

[lime pond]

Np, mb if I wasn't clear

[rigid pendant]

having two engines can be confusing to a new player 😉

[lime pond]

Lol

[rigid pendant]

Core <> Engine. Got it.

[lime pond]

Think of the core as the power source for the ship instead

Also why it has stuff related to power levels

[rigid pendant]

I guess I do still have my [Turn]x4 engine then... I'll log in and look. None of these screen shots show you the extras on each thing.

Yes, Combat Impulse Engine Mk XV [Turn]x4

And yes, the ship is very nimble and can turn quite well. Well enough I could sacrafice a little for more speed.

OK, actual question. In another thread it was said I should be using Bellum pre-fire chambers. However my Common Plasma Infuser has a higher % than the Rare Bellum... would all-infusers be even better? Also to get 5 infusers (or 4+Lorca's, or bellums), which uni-console do I give up? Adaptive Emergency Systems I think?

[lime pond]

Boff layout i recommend assuming boimler and no comp engine:

[lime pond]

Belums win out because they also give crith basically
You have a lot cat1 damage already, which is the % boost these consoles give, so they are marginal of each other

But crith allows you to crit more, which is a cat2 damage boost

[rigid pendant]

wow, dramatically different bridge layout

What about the other Sci seat?

I do collect CritH... which caps at 100%... pretty sure I'm not anywhere near that yet.

[lime pond]

So the logic is that you're not using anything that uses the usual tact triggers
So you have room for the tempoal abilities, so i put recursive shearing + a hull heal and a shield heal
Then with pilot, fly her apart is a very strong damage booster, and deploy counter measures is good in a pinch

For engineering, you can only ever cycle 2 eptx abilities, so to weapons and engines

And then hazard emitters for hull heal and cleanse, and po1 to finish cd with boimler

Sorry I was sure I added the other sci seat lol

[rigid pendant]

Not weapons and shields? EP2S is my "oh shit" button right now.

EP2E was my run-away button when I was very new. Dropped it like a hot brick early on.

[lime pond]

Shields benefit very little form power level, the res from shields is nice but engine keeps you mobile and moving and gives some defense

[rigid pendant]

I was doing straifing runs back then, very bad piloting 😉

hazard emitters and the two teams are my other 'oh shitshitshit' buttons 😉

Yours does fit the all-attack, get them before the get you methodology though... could be fun.

[lime pond]

I basically gave you a shield heal to replace the teams, tact team is pretty meh
With the valdor console you should be able to keep shields up fairly well as long as you keep shooting

[rigid pendant]

My consoles (and traits) have been doing very well. I don't hit the panic buttons nearly as often as I used to.

[lime pond]

Actually I made it a bit more survival oriented, 2 hull heals 1 shield heal and 1 kinetic and torpedo nullifier

[rigid pendant]

I explode maybe once every 5 TFOs these days. Used to be 5 every 1 TFO.

Thank you @lime pond ... I'll have to play around with these.

[lime pond]

Fly her apart is one of the strongest damage buff abilities in the game thou, so even though it damages your hull I added it in

[rigid pendant]

(and yes, that once us usually me doing something dumb and I know it at the time)

I've been scared of FHA for that reason, as I have been a glass cannon in the past.

[lime pond]

And recursive shearing will allow you to do better damage on bug targets

[rigid pendant]

Oh that explains a lot. RS was far far weaker than CSV in my experience, but I don't fight a lot of big target and CRf was dealing with them.

So RS > CRF, on targets that live more than one volley.

[lime pond]

Basically use hazard emitters, and you good

If you already have the Energy Refrequencer trait then it helps a lot too

Well in this set up rs>csv
But csv will be up all the time basically

Boimler and po1 allows you to use it again basically as it finishes

Hence just one firing mode

Once/if you add a torpedo, you can drop rs for torpedo spread 3

And when you get the comp engine, you could further replace one of the temp abilities for faw

[rigid pendant]

OK I know why I dropped Ship of the Line. It gives CritD which I didn't care about.

I swapped it for Thirst for Battle.

[lime pond]

Critd is substantial, especially as you start racking up crith

But I don't have the math of whichever is better in this case

You would need some changes to your doffs as you won't have rsp for example

[rigid pendant]

Logic was I didn't have enough CritH to make CritD worth it over either the ambiguous "increased damage" of TforB, or just more CritH.

[lime pond]

The doff that gives your grave well a chance to spawn up to 3 additional ones is nice

[rigid pendant]

Oh that would be fun. I had the singularity projector for a while, a grav well on a console clicky instead a boff one... never really got much out of it but it's fun watching the enemy slide around.

[lime pond]

Also you could probably do fine with just one or 2 crth doffs and get one for crtd too

[rigid pendant]

Is there a place to check cumulative CritH?

[lime pond]

Im a fan of grav well so I try and add it to everything, some people can do without but thats what i recommend

[lime pond]

Best way is doing a dps parse as it'll tell you your average

[rigid pendant]

Grav Well helps with getting things into cannon firing arc I assume?

[lime pond]

Keeps em all nice and bundles so you csv has all the Targets it could want

And your Kemocite to irradiate them all too as its a small aoe

[rigid pendant]

Ther was a pre-fire order somewhere I lost it... but it was something like EP2W -> Kemocite -> CSV? Wish I could find that again because I know it was 4 things not 3...

might be GW -> EP2W -> Kemo -> CSV...

[lime pond]

Kemocite lasts a bit less then csv so you could activate it after too i guess

There's optimal firing orders as some abilities have activation time, during which you can start new firing cycles, but that's for later i guess

[rigid pendant]

i can search on that, when it matters

ty

[lime pond]

Gw i just use when I know I can clump several enemies together, or when I need to keep something somewhere

[rigid pendant]

ok, fixed Ship of the Line. Off to Drozana to grab boimler

[lime pond]

You can just ckick thr lobies and it opens the menu

Click*

[rigid pendant]

The romulan engine will be a while... I'm 250 marks shy of it

[rigid pendant]

oh nice

ty

[lime pond]

Thats like a couple random advanced tfos, or a few normals

Randoms give bonus selection marks

Anyway im off for now, gl and hf

[rigid pendant]

thank you for your patience with me, this has all been a big help

[lime pond]

We've all been there dw about it 🙂

Glad to help

[rigid pendant]

Current Changes
Swapped Predictive Algorhythms for Ship of the Line.
Swapped Singularity Specialist for The Boimler Effect.
Re-configured my default power layout W->E (was W->A).
Started work on Romulan Reputation Engine.
Work continues on crafted plasma omni.
Set up bridge per #1443440157335359561 message.

[lime pond]

One last thing
For cd, you basically want to use po1 as often as you can

And you want to use as many other abilities as you can to trigger boimler

But pretty much all of your abilities can be used without a target, besides grave well and rs so it won't be that tricky

And consider adding chrono capacitor to your reputation space traits

I'd go Romulan crith trait
Disco crith trait
Energy Refrequencer
Chrono capacitor

Gives you healing, cd, and substantial amount of crith

Eventually you can switch chrono capacitor for something else

[lament moth]

This sounds like you're manually clicking all your abilities. Do you have any custom hotkeys?
Creating a spambar would make piloting much more relaxed: instead of clicking abilities one by one, you'd just press Space (or any other convenient key of your choice) about twice per second for your executions.

Your ability bars kinda look like you set up a spambar on trays 1 and 2, but your messages imply manual activations

[rigid pendant]

I made a spam bar when I first heard the concept, but I probably had the wrong things in it or something. I couldn't control what was getting activated. It seemed random. A tool I need, but not one I understand yet.

That said, I'm having some success going in this direction so I don't think I'll be spamming a krait any time soon.

And by clicking, I have a special keyboard I used for fantasy MMOs that has 4 ortholinear rows of keys. I mapped each to a 10-row clickies area so I have a key for every clicky. And had 8 dead-keys, stupid 10 row bars but it didn't matter in the end. It's a nightmare. What worked flawlessly for me elsewhere (as a high-level healer in PUGs) is a pathetic failure in STO from the sheer number of things I need to click. More than 3 rows of 6 (4 fingers and they keys immediately to the left and right) require me to move my hand too much. I'd hit the wrong key all the time. With 12 key bars I had two-hands worth of buttons. I tried two-hands worth of 5, but it was still pretty insane and I'd get my hands wrong all the time. Thought about using 8 keys from another profile so there'd be a tactile way to know where I am on it but my performance was so bad I didn't bother:...

It's almost impossible for me to fly the ship on mouse alone. With no WASD or F keys handy (because everything is mapped to the clickie bars) STO is very difficult to play. I do have some extra keys on my mouse from the fantasy MMO days I haven't utilized in STO yet... could try a spam bar easily on the "trigger" button of my mouse, or put the F key over there...

Here's the keyboard (and it's very expensive cousin) if anyone's curious, or plays another game more suited to it. Trust me the cheap one is better because it has individual key backlights. The preonic has more keys but is not backlit.
Inland Ortholinear / Keyboardio Preonic

It is easier for me to play STO with important activations on a standard keyboard 1-6, with one secondary row on ctrl-1 - ctrl 6. Fire modes on the main row, "oh shit" keys on the ctrl-row. But STO requires much more than that with an active build.

My hands are too small to hit Ctrl-7 easily, making 7-0 almost worthless to me, but I did put my hangar pets and emergency summons (pirate distress call, fleet support) on them. Ctrl 7-0 are things I just want to give a try like projected singularity if I'm running it. I can put grav well over there.

tl;dr: I'm clearly doing it wrong

advice appreciated

(the short row with the space bar were my targeting keys in fantasy MMOs. I could hit any party member with a cure with thumb and a key. the one right next to the tiny space bar was my "tab" key for targeting. The one to the other side of the space bar was my "esc" key to dismiss popups. as I said, this worked outstandingly well in other games where I almost always played a healer, a role that just doesn't seem to exist in STO).

when I feel the need to move on to a new build and look at Krait/Uncon, this will be a priority. For now, idk.

[lament moth]

while there's no such thing as wrong or right in terms of keybindings, i do encourage you to give a conventional spambar another try.
piloting is in large parts personal preference, and not everybody uses hotbars (prominent example: Parot clicks everything as seen in their posts like #1325043739974045716 message). But generally hotbars are seen as helpful to help you focus on other aspects of piloting.

[lament moth]

a random order spambar looks like either trying to fit too many abilities on one key (common recommendation is to not do more than 15 or at most 20 slots per key), or a syntax error in the bind (most likely not mirroring the commands).
if you still have the bindfile for what you tried back then, feel free to upload it and we can help analyze where the problem was. not too important tho, the best way forward most likely is just setting up a new bindfile

[lament moth]

some ideas for how easily usable bind setups can look like:

1. few-modifications option:
   -> default keybinds, but adding a spambar to Space, moving the Fire Weapons command (like to Shift+Space or Alt)
   -> possibly adding a second hotbar to G
   -> keeps everything keyboard-related accessible from one hand (even keeps the number keys 1-5, or however many your fingers can reach without leaving WASD, bound to their slots in tray 1 for manual executions like Evasive or survival panic buttons). Second hand can stay on the mouse for targeting and finetuning turns

2. keyboard-heavy option:
   -> like option 1, but nearly exclusively using the keyboard to fly the ship
   -> second hand alternates between mouse (for precise targeting if Tab fails you) and KB (numpad for more manual executions, possibly more tray or partial tray hotkeys on the right half of the keyboard)

3. mouse-heavy option:
   -> binding throttle controls (default Q,E,R) to the mouse wheel (down,up,click) to mainly fly the ship with your mouse. [remember that you can aim your ship via mouse by holding down both mouse buttons]
   -> using the freed up keys (plus the usual suspects like Space and G) for hotkeys. this lets you finetune the hotkeys from one big catch-all spambar to more granular control
   -> if your mouse has extra thumb buttons, they can be used for manual activations and/or a spambar

some context:
-> Space is a commonly used spambar key since your thumb has little to do by default.
-> all 3 options would be more of a starting point, obv you'd finetune them towards your own preferences over time.
-> Option 3 is interpolated from some binds a few top end players mentioned
-> Option 1 is the setup i started with and a friend of mine has been using for some years
-> Option 2 is what my setup slowly shifted to over the years (the extra hotbars on the right kb half accumulating as i wanted more granular executions)

[twin cloud]

To be clear, spambar keybinds in STO were already a well established practice long before the existence of "Krait" and even Unconventional Systems.

As Krass said, having a spambar in place (which you can decide how much you wish to automate vs manually click) can greatly help with easing your piloting.

[rigid pendant]

I downloaded it from a youtube video... possibly STOBetter or Stu1701, I don't recall.

Tab fails me a LOT. I can have a ship right in front of me and it will not target it (swarm ships in Swarm, very often).

Spam bars fire their attached clickies (a) in order, or (b) in random order?

i.e. can they be used for firing sequences?

[lament moth]

a). at least kinda:
a spambar needs to be set up mirrored like A B C D E D C B A to execute A B C D E

keybind shenanigans cause one hotbar press to try to execute two abilities (this plus some other technicality is the reason why the bind needs to be mirrored to be in the right order) - so some very sensitive things should have some distance (basically anything that induces a shared cooldown on each other, and generally firing modes).
you can definitely set up buffing sequences via keybinds, that's what the majority of high end players are doing

[lament moth]

check whether you have the "never auto target pets" option enabled. if not, your tab may try to target some random mine or torp first.
also consider disabling the "select auto target on attack" and "only attack if target selected" options - this will allow your wepaons to fire even without selecting any target.

[rigid pendant]

never auto target pets – ON; select auto target on attack – OFF; only attack if target selected – OFF
Yep, I was set up that way already. I have noticed it changing my selected target somewhat randomly... not sure why?

auto attack – maintain; if that's important

[rigid pendant]

Does the spambar tool (keybind manager) handle mirroring for me?

/me looks for a "target nearest forward arc enemy" keybind...

[lament moth]

iirc yes but that tool has been abandoned for some years, which sometimes leads to issues when a command has changed its syntax since. https://keybind.sto-tools.org/ is the more modern alternative (and if there's an issue you can reach the dev in here over in #keybind-manager )

(and subjectively, the new tool is also significantly more elegant to use. ofc YMMV)

[rigid pendant]

yes #keybind-manager was the keybind manager I meant ^_^

[lament moth]

just wanted to be sure, bc there also exists this old software - which was the best we had for quite a while (if we disregard manually editing bind and alias files), and is still mentioned in plenty of guides

[lime pond]

🥀 still what I use

[lament moth]

It does work after all. Do give the new tool a try tho, when you're adjusting your binds the next time, you might like it (you can import your bindfile txt, so no need to set up everything you already have a second time)

[lime pond]

Will give it a look

[rigid pendant]

1st place, broke 10k

Best of 4 runs of Swarm. Avg run was just under 6K though. It all depends if other people kill things before I get to. This run I was able to handle almost all of lane alpha and a good bit of lane beta because others focused elsewhere.

[rigid pendant]

Wanted (patrol)... 27,126.73 in 4 minutes.

22,877 in 9th rule, died twice in the final battle

[lime pond]

the usual parsing maps are infected space and hive onslaught, that's what most players have a good understanding of so its easier to gauge build performance and give you feedback

[twin cloud]

As EagleRise said, the well established space DPS parsing maps are Infected and Hive, Advanced and Elite difficulties.
However, if you wish to parse in a solo Patrol instead, there exists some benchmarks for Japori, Gamma and Argala patrols on Elite difficulty.

[lime pond]

Personally I do have an idea of 9th and wanted on elite.
never passed them on anything lower thou.
things fie so quick and there's kinda long pauses between engagements so not ideal.

Assuming it translates kinds the same as elites thou,
If your parses were in advance then id say you could get like get 40-50k on infected space normal/advanced, but that's really more vibe based then factual

Been a while but I usually parsed 1/3 to 1/2 on thoes compare to ise.

[twin cloud]

Yeah I'd peg >80k DPS in Wanted Elite without any deaths as the bare minimum for being Elite-difficulty ready.

[lime pond]

Id even say closer to 100k for wanted, because that one can be somewhat compressed if you kill things fast enough, so its more ise comfortable
(but still not ideal due to locations of spawns and the pauses at the start and end)

Like you mentioned, Japori is probably the most fitting patrol for parsing

Close spawns, fairly quickly.

But I never parsed it so I won't have a reference

[lament moth]

aye, swarm is definitely not a dps map. not much HP going around, enemies have immune facings, and there's a lot of waiting involved.
Wanted and 9th Rule are better estimates.
From the numbers you posted, it looks like you're perfectly capable of holding your own in normal content.

But from the build (assuming you made the changes you mentioned - it would be great if you could post the current state so we can talk about further refinements), there's quite some potential you can eventually reach through piloting. Would need to see the full current build iteration to assess it, but from the original pic plus changelog i'd say there's definitely potential for x2 or even x4 your current dps, once you set up and get used to a good set of keybinds

[rigid pendant]

Yes, I'm not piloting the new build correctly and I know it. There's too many clickies now. I ignore photonic officer, there's no room for it on my one-hand so it's on the 7 key and requires a move to hit it and then time to find wasd again. I'm not seeing anywhere near 14 out of 15 seconds on CSV. In fact it feels like nothing's changed except now I don't have CRF to hit anymore when CSV is offline.

Same with grav well... yet another clickie far off the main row.

I wanted passive. This new arrangement is not passive.

[lament moth]

The problem with being fully passive is that a lot of any build's potential comes from bridge officer abilities, and there pretty much isn't any way around using them without losing a ton of performance.
Delegating all boff abilities to a spambar is pretty much the most passive it can get

Unless you count the jellyfish, which technically can be used 100% passively, but since jelly mode makes you nearly immobile, that would be a bit boring in the long run

[lime pond]

For full uptime with boimler you need to always use po

[rigid pendant]

Well, not completely passive. I still have 5-6 across two rows that are easy keypresses, and another two rows of 5-6 that are awkward for me but less so than moving my hand to hit them (shift 1-6 and alt 1-6). The problem becomes keeping track of all this in the fog of war.

IMO this is a very difficult game which is great, it's a challenge, but it's nice to have a build that is just causual fun.

[lime pond]

And use abilities, as boimler procs off of using abilities

[rigid pendant]

I don't expect to do great. I don't expect to do Elite. I do expect to be doing better than I am.

[lime pond]

Its a learning curve

I wasn't able to do elites properly before I started using key binds

[rigid pendant]

(( logging in to look at my bars and let you know what abilities I'm using easily, in case I should move something ))

[lime pond]

Felt like playing a piano at times

[rigid pendant]

(( and YES, suggestions for binds are great and very appreciated ))

[lime pond]

Right crtl and 9 are a long way apart after akl

[rigid pendant]

I have tried to learn piano, guitar, and uke. I get the feeling my dexterity is far below average.

I can't play any of them. 🙁

The frustration here stems from being a pretty ok WHM in FFXIV. I wasn't doing elite content there either, but I know I /can/ play a clicky MMO if I take the time to get the abilities and keyboard right.

[lime pond]

My personal binds are shift+"easily accessible key"

For me its shift+q for first row
Shift+w for first half of the second row, shift+d for the second half
Shift+e for the third row
Etc..

[rigid pendant]

I could bind anything near WASD to a ctrl combo fairly easily, yes...

Q and E are currently speed controls that I use a lot.

[lime pond]

When I ran out of accessible keys with shift, I did the same sith crtl

[rigid pendant]

I haven't hit anything there with CTRL yet... and oh, QAZ would not be easy as my pinky is hitting that ctrl key.

[lime pond]

That way I can keep e and q for speed, but when pressed with shift or crtl they execute different abilities

Note that with binds, the execution order is left to right, and it executes 2-3 abilities per execution

[rigid pendant]

Someone said it's mirrored? ABCBA? And then 'spam' because you hit it constantly. Something bound to it is off cooldown, doesn't matter, keep hitting it? Does it try to invoke on-cooldown abilities? Are some presses dead presses because the 2-3 it picks are all on cool down? Or do I need to find a rhythm to hit it once per n seconds?

[rigid pendant]

OK, headed to Infected and Hive, Advanced... let's see what I can manage.

Well, newbie matter... is it "Infected: Manus" or "Infected: The Conduit"? And is it "Hive Onslaught" or "Into the Hive"?

omg I have played Hive Onslaught... this has to be my least favourite TFO on the planet.

[lament moth]

your bind is mirrored so the execution is in order

don't worry about the technicalities, just make sure to activate this little scale icon on your bind

[lament moth]

conduit. manus is on ground

[rigid pendant]

Yeah, I am not surviving Hive Onslaught solo at Advanced. I lasted... 10 seconds once the shooting started.

[lament moth]

it can be a bit overwhelming at first. as your piloting and build get more powerful, it becomes a joy to annihilate the group

[rigid pendant]

Now my ship is damaged and I don't stock the repair mats, so I'm finished.

[rigid pendant]

ah, thank you

and omg I got chewed out elsewhere about leaving @ON on in my replies... please let me know if I should not be doing that for any of you... I didn't know it was a feature until about half an hour ago.

[lament moth]

yeah, even with perfect piloting this would be way beyond your build. Hive solo Advanced is the a map you can test your elite tank on. very high enemy damage output (provided your build doesn't vape them first).
to get a general sense of scale: your build is at 10-30k dps. Casual high-ish end builds easily do 100-300k dps (this is the range when a build can comfortably join random elites without failing too many of them). Top end builds can do millions of dps in maps like Infected or Hive.
Don't let that discourage you, but i do suggest waiting with solo Advanced TFOs until you're at at least 100k - attempting them below that tends to be kinda frustrating

[lament moth]

you can repair your ship for free in the ESD/First City/NR shipyard

[rigid pendant]

I make extensive use of this fact, but it requires me to abort the scenario, so it was over for me.

[rigid pendant]

So... at my level what should I be benchmarking against? Wanted and 9th Rule (my unlocking ship trait go-tos) not being the right option?

[lament moth]

disabling reply pings in ongoing conversations is considered polite in here (rule of thumb: if a person is still participating in the convo, the @ isn't necessary). personally i disabled discord message sounds so i don't mind, but disabling them is a good thing to make a habit of ;P

[rigid pendant]

/me looks for a discord setting so they default that way, and thank you.

wow, I don't see one. never bothered me, I want to know when people are talking to me

[lament moth]

Infected on normal or Advanced (in a team) would be ideal.
Wanted also works (at least until you reach around 100k, at which point the numbers get inaccurate).
9th Rule works if you only parse the last (endless-respawn) wave, and turn up the difficulty if you start vaping what spawns in

[rigid pendant]

If I start finishing 9th Rule without being explody (on advanced) I will be very happy.

(( off topic: WOO! Dinged 10 in Romulan Admiralty Campaign ))

[lament moth]

that's definitely doable. one good trick is to trap enemies at spawn with a gravity well, and reduce their damage with Chronometric Inversion Field

[rigid pendant]

I will give that a try since we slotted them.

Would that be a good bind, putting those two on one key?

[lament moth]

worth a shot

imho the main thing about keybinds is to start by spamming nearly everything through a single key (i'd recommend binding two trays to spacebar, personally i went for 7 and 8), and then swapping only the stuff you want more precise control over to manual executions. spamming should be the default, keeps things simpler

[rigid pendant]

And I was going to ask... my regular salvos are 1346 or, maybe 123456 where my current clickies are as in the picture... Beta, (Shearing), CSV, EP2W, Sing.Over, and Kemocite. Spam bar it all, or...?

(5 isn't always available... 2 seems to be a special case for bosses and things that don't go boom after 1 salvo?)

[lament moth]

yeah, 1 to 6 and most of your 2nd tray can go on a single hotkey

[rigid pendant]

That will clean up things significantly... off to the tool.

Anything obviously missing or stupid? 😉

Alt-8 is fun as heck, but seems niche (tethered asteroid)

[lament moth]

i suggest making trays 2 and 3 your spambar, so tray 1 is available for manual stuff via number keys

[lament moth]

c1 (redistribute shields) shouldn't be spammed. usually it shouldn't be used at all, let SAFG and Tac Team do that job.
c8 (fly her apart) can't be spammed. it's also some extra piloting coordination, so possibly not ideal to use right now

oh, and i can't see your captain abilities (evansive maneuvers and so on) on that pic. if they're not on your trays, press P to view all abilities

[rigid pendant]

Is it wrong to put them on trays 5-10, or is that out-of-sight-out-of-mind? My thought was trays 5-6 and the spam "bar" actually being keys C1 and 3 (which are muscle memory for my shield distribution (used a LOT) and my primary firing mode)

omg C1 was second after my space bar

[lament moth]

i'd keep them in sight just to see whether there has been a misfire or other problem, but you can definitely use the high trays

[rigid pendant]

The rest of the C-row was for oh-shit moments.

[lament moth]

heals are way too weak to panic-use, just spam them

[rigid pendant]

roger wilco

[lament moth]

https://stowiki.net/wiki/Singularity_Core_abilities
that's c5, 5, and some more

[paper cloak]

Just an example.. tray 10, 9, 4, and 3 are seperate hotkeys. Everything else is manual.

[lament moth]

just in case you're not aware: you aren't limited to 4 visible trays. you can use up to 10, or even create a second trays UI element

[rigid pendant]

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-tim-and-eric-mind-blown-mind-blown-meme-mind-explosion-mind-explosion-meme-gif-18002878

WOAH... trays on both sides??

[paper cloak]

My old MMO brain wont let me do one big tray

[rigid pendant]

It was too tall, was getting in the way before.

[paper cloak]

With a wide screen I like having all the abilities where I can more easily see them instead of off to one side etc..

[rigid pendant]

I'm 4k. My one cheap wide screen is 2560x1080 so isn't much better than 1080p.

it is my backup though, so...

[lament moth]

using all 10 also works on 1080

[rigid pendant]

looks very good to me

[paper cloak]

Oh no no no no

[rigid pendant]

I haven't seen that layout since the tutorial. I don't recall shutting it off.

(the boff clickies)

[lament moth]

yeah, that's my backup. sometimes loadouts just empty all trays the moment i warp into a tfo 😅

[paper cloak]

That station is super helpful in setting up a new ship since you can drag abilities right off those bars but I can't stand having it on lol

[rigid pendant]

I have had awful problems with loadouts emptying trays, traits, re-arranging boff skills... it's a bit of a mess... I can only have one reliable ship at a time it seems, every change has me checking everything and arranging most things... some is expected (swapping out cannon buffs for beam buffs as needed)... some isn't.

[lament moth]

also useful for doing tests or hot-swapping abilities between combats

[lament moth]

yeah, loadouts unfortunately don't work as they should for some players. still usually worth saving them, but shouldn't blindly trust them

[rigid pendant]

My morning is rapidly dwindling and RL is going to want some attention. I'll set up spam bars tonight, perhaps, and give it a whirl in those patrols. Also... just to save me looking it up... SAFG is?... ^_^

Thank you, as always, Krassl4

Someday I'll be good enough to join you in an Elite. New goal. 😉

[lament moth]

Safg is shield absorbative frequency generator, aka valdore console. Shield heal scaling with your damage - not gamebreaking at the moment but heavily ramps up as your damage increases

[lime pond]

Worth nothing that while its passive seems to be worded similar to weapon procs, it is fundamentally different.

Safg is 2.5% per shot, so it procs very often, while most weapon procs are 2.5% per firing cycle (basically only the first shot from when a weapon starts firing and stops to recharge) making it much less frequent and usually a none consideration when making a build.

Figured its worth mentioning as I've seen players get confused both ways

[rigid pendant]

Is a hexacannon 6 "shots" or is that one volley a single shot?

[lime pond]

It deals damage 6 times
But its not classified as an energy weapon as its an experimental weapon

[rigid pendant]

OK, I am trying to get my keybinds set up for how my hand works. I have the following so far.

T - Tray 9 5-9, Shift 0-4
G - Tray 8 5-9, Shift 0-4
B - Tray 7 5-9, Shift 0-4
X - Tray 6 5-9
Z - Tray 6 0-4
C - Tray 2 all
V - Tray 3 all

1-0 - Tray 1 0-9 (default)
Ctrl 1-0 - Tray 2 0-9 (also default)

So the curious thing is I have several ways to use Trays 2 and 3. By individual ctrl-keypress, by an easy to hit key (c or v) right next to the space bar. I also have the spacebar itself, which I have removed as "fire all weapons" on the advice of keybind manager (which says it interferes with firing modes).

Now, I just need to figure out what to put on all of them.

[rigid pendant]

I forget that EWs seem to trigger/be influenced by next to nothing which (maybe?) is why it doesn't matter I run the (phaser) hexacannons instead of the plasma bombardment on a plasma build as nothing's going to buff the bombard anyway?

[rigid pendant]

Well, survived 9th Rule Advanced, I think thanks to my shield/hull spambar. Sadly I had two issues.

First: my firing modes spambar did nothing, probably an error in my keybinds, idk.

Second: NOTHING FIRES AT ALL without hitting "fire all weapons". No auto target, no nothing. I had to re-bind fire all weapons to the spacebar mid fight to get anything to shoot back.

It appears I also need to hit fire all weapons when selecting a new target after the first goes boom.

I've also found no use for the TGBXZ binds, I did this all with just my all-tray-3 and manual invocation of tray 2 (because my bindfile appears wrong). I suppose I need to set something up for hangar pets, but aside from that I'm not sure. Should grav well be in the "attack" spam bar, or should I be more judicious when invoking that?

Oh, and I forgot about "offensive configuration" on the Valdore... might need to toss that in somewhere to "start" a fight.... Offensive configuration, launch fighters, wait 30, launch fighters, fighters attack? Anything else in a "start fight" spambar?

[lime pond]

Ex weapons are affected by +all damage sources, as well as global crit modifiers.

Some ex weapons can be further boosted by specific global damage type boosters.

For example, the hexa can be further boosted by +phaser tact consoles, +phaser advanced consoles, and all other sources of none specific +phaser.

The hexas are still the strongest ex weapons on most non phaser builds thou

For auto fire, you might have more success if you change your settings

Mine is set to "continue unless out of combat" which means my weapons will keep auto firing when able if I didn't exist red alert

[rigid pendant]

I thought I’d done that, but even with that you have to order your crew to fire on every red alert I guess?

[lime pond]

Just once per alert

Personally I don't use spacebar as a spam key, Its fire all weapons for me

Regarding your weapons not firing, that can be due to spamming too many abilities too.

Most abilities have activation time, during which you can't do any other actions, like firing your weapons.
So spam bars may chain too many abilities if used too quickly.

However, if your weapons started firing, activating abilities won't stop that, it only stops you from starting new firing cycles.

An important aspect of piloting is knowing how to activate abilities in between weapon cycles in combat, so that you don't lock yourself out of firing.

Regarding fighters, you can set them up auto lunch just like weapons, so for the most part you can leave them for manual activation for the start of combat and the occasional relaunch if they don't for some reason.

Offensive configuration is also something you can keep manual imo.

And for how to set up your macros, can't help too much there. Imo its more of a personal thing, what works for me and makes sense to me probably won't for you.

Just make sure you don't have any of the shield redistributions on your spam bars

[lament moth]

-> are your weapons all set to auto fire?
-> is your autofire setting "maintain" or something else that doesn't auto-cancel?
both need to be the case for weapons to fire without hitting fireAll again and again

[lament moth]

gravwell is most effective when used on the right enemies (ideally on big stuff in the center of a group), but as with any ability it's better to use it below maximum efficiency than to not use it at all. i.e. manual it if you have the capacity, spam it if you don't

[lament moth]

depends on the setting. but even when set to "maintain" you'll need to manually tell them to fire at least once per map

[lament moth]

wouldn't recommend putting offensive config onto a hotbar, since that's a toggle

[paper cloak]

An example for how I do 9th rule advanced and any patrol that has wave spawns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOTY0uqxsiQ

Tray 10 is a spam bar. Tray 3 is a sep spam bar. Everything else is manual. I have fire all weapons bound to a key that I press once and only once. Make sure your autofire is set to maintain auto attack in the options.

[rigid pendant]

Interesting. In this case I could manually target something, click CSV and nothing would happen. No omnis, no cannons, nada. Had to hit fire.

[lime pond]

Well csv is not a firing command

[rigid pendant]

I removed shield distribution entierly. It's too much of a habit, dangerous to leave it in my sight now.

[lime pond]

Are your weapons set to auto fire and you were still in combat?

[rigid pendant]

I've never figured out how to tell. Usually what happens on a new character is they are NOT auto fire during the tutorial, then sometime around when the tutorial ends they start behaving very differently and I stopped worrying about that. But that's with me thumbing spacebar once per second.

The real funny one is during the tutorial, phasers stick but torps do not, for me, when I've noticed.

I need to go try something with single canons in low level content for another thread now... I'll be back to this soon. If it works, I might need to write it up under the heading "cheap training for newbie csv captains" or something.

[lime pond]

If you're weapon has a green outline, its set to auto fire
No green outline, manual fire

[rigid pendant]

I'll double check. Thanks.

[lime pond]

To change the setting, right click on the weapon icon in your weapons tray

[rigid pendant]

No telling if I'm doing it right, but attack bar is Beta, Shearing, CSV, EP2W, SingW, and Kemocite. regen bar is causal reversion, ep2s, gravemetric conversion, hazard team, and photonic officer. I spam the !@#$ out of these two and things go boom in Swarm.

[lament moth]

if you spam your spambar and things go boom, that's a sign that you're doing at least something quite right.

[rigid pendant]

if you read the clickies in the list and didn't tell me "wtf you have xyz in there" then I'm doing at least something right. 😉 😉 😉

[lime pond]

Id just move photonic officer to the attack bar because it'll help you keep it up more

[twin cloud]

Yeah, Photonic Officer should be early in the spam bar chain for it to do its thing.

[rigid pendant]

ok, moving it up