The German Wienner card seems to be bugged. You can attack with it before it being harvested, and once it's harvested, you can attack with it three times. I am not talking about the FAST keyword, I am talking about the two turns it should not be available to act.
Once it's harvested, it allows you to attack three times instead of two
#German Wienner
dark frost
clever drum
where is it written that this card cannot attack ? ^^
That's exactly the effect of this card
FAST allows you to attack or action with the card after being played. If this card was not able to attack at all, you would not be able to attack with FAST also.
Harvest effect is just an additional trigger, allowing you to attack an additional time with it the turn it harvests
and it attacks only 3 times and not 4, because frenzy cannot be trigger twice in the same turn
dark frost
It says "You may attack with this now". It implies that you couldn't attack with it before (I assumed FAST would bypass that". And by the same, it does not say "You can now trigger FRENZY twice".
Unless you can attack with it AND another card.
Like harvest, now you can attack with it, and then you can attack with another card. But then instead of three attacks, it'll be clearer if a prompt to "Attack" the same way when you play fast.
If that is what you seek with that card, I'll admit that I can't think of a better way to phrase it, but it gives space for confusion
clever drum
It says "You may attack with this now". It implies that you couldn't attack with...
"You may attack with this now" => "now" refers to the time the harvest triggers, meaning it is an additional attack.
the "now" was not mandatory, since "You may attack with this" was enough, but we felt it could be confusing if that consumes your attack or not, so we added "now" to explicitly say that's an attack you have to do during its harvest. maybe "right now" was better wording that simply "now".
But in any case, I don't see why a card saying "You may attack with this now" would imply that you was not able to do it before. An effect has to state explicitly the things in order to be effective. If you say "You may defeat this now", it does not says that it is not possible to be defeated before, but just that you can do this action at the time the effect triggers.
I assumed FAST would bypass that
Just to be clear, if you have The King on your table, and play a FAST card, you cannot attack with it, since The King is preventing it.
And by the same, it does not say "You can now trigger FRENZY twice".
Unless you can attack with it AND another card.
I don't get this point. Just to rephrase: you cannot trigger FRENZY twice in a turn on the same creature, that's from the game's rule.
From what I remember, that's the first card able to attack 2 times in a turn, so the first time this case happen, kind of an edge case.
dark frost
"You may attack with this now" => "now" refers to the time the harvest triggers,...
I do understand that, as "I'll admit that I can't think of a better way to phrase it" states, because it could be interpreted both ways, meaning that it made sense when I had to write it and rethink it in the context you gave me.
However, that said, it feels like "You may attack with this now" should not be triggering a second FRENZY, but an independent attack. Shouldn't the harvest be independent from which card you decide to attack later? Or if you decide to trigger the harvest effect it must be linked to attacking with that card? That is where the initial confusion comes from.
It should rather clarify "If you attack with this creature now, trigger FRENZY twice", or resolve the trigger deciding if you attack with it or not, and then resume normal play. That is where the problem is for me.
There are many examples where triggering a harvest effect in a card does not force you to attack with that card. And again "You may attack with this card now" does not imply any modification of how the card operates, meaning that triggering FRENZY twice in this case is not explained anyywhere. The fact that the rules state that you can trigger FRENZY twice does not meant that it happens here. The same while playing Tokyo, buying the "Frenzy" card does not allows me to FRENZY twice with frenzy creatures.
The King example is a good one, btw
clever drum
I do understand that, as "I'll admit that I can't think of a better way to phra...
However, that said, it feels like "You may attack with this now" should not be triggering a second FRENZY
I'm really not sure we understand each other 🤣
Why are you talking about a "second" FRENZY. FRENZY is allowing you to attack a second time if you did not already.
There is no concept of a second FRENZY, keywords does not stack.
And again "You may attack with this card now" does not imply any modification of how the card operates
There is no modification on how the card operate, you just have an additional attack with this card.
I'm a bit confused at reading your "The fact that the rules state that you can trigger FRENZY twice". The rules says otherwise, you CANNOT trigger FRENZY if you did already.
dark frost
About the "second FRENZY", I misread your first message, and got locked in that misunderstanding, sorry.
However, I would still question the harvesting of the creature being tied to attack with it. No other harvested creature ties you to interact only with that card during your turn. So, shouldn't the extra attack trigger during the harvesting phase, and then you should be able to use a different creature?
Harvest: Defeat this; Harvest: Gain 2 lives; Harvest: You may attack with this now; Harvest: Defeat an enemy creature. And then attack or play? And in order to do so, you should get the option like when you play it and you are asked if you want to attack or not
clever drum
About the "second FRENZY", I misread your first message, and got locked in that ...
There is card that destroy itself on harvest, that's an interaction exclusive to the card itself. And that's not because there is no other card doing so that it should not exist, especially for a promo.
I don't get why that's an issue. You trigger harvest, attack or not, then do your turn, so pretty much straight forward
dark frost
If I attack with the Wienner using the harvest, I am unable to attack with a different card after after.
And what I meant with "No other harvested creature ties you to interact only with that card during your turn" is that after you use the banana "Destroy an enemy creature", you don't have to attack with the banana that turn, for example
clever drum
If I attack with the Wienner using the harvest, I am unable to attack with a dif...
If you attack with harvest. You can do a normal turn after that, so attacking with any card you'd like
dark frost
I'll check again, but so far, I seem to be unable to do so