Expanding and Balancing Sun Bells

[keen mulch]

I think adding more variety to the sun bells, as well as buffing the companion bell (as mentioned in a previous thread) could make this choice much more meaningful than it currently is. I also think making some bells only come after the first or second boss could be interesting, since certain bell ideas (bounty, variety) would lose value the later in the game you get them. Additionally, this could help some builds that are particularly hard to enable become possible (charm).

Buffed Sun Bell of Fellowship: Add a character slot, immediately pick one of three (maybe four?) characters to add to your deck.

Sun Bell of Bounty: (something involving gold, and perhaps shop modification.) Such as: all enemies drop x more gold, shops are more likely to appear. Or maybe: All enemies drop x more gold, combos give x more gold, shops contain x more item(s). (Some mix of these ideas)

Sun Bell of Variety: Increases the amount of card options in everything by x. (I can see this one being too weak, and it definitely would suck after 2nd boss, but just an idea.)

Sun Bell of Constitution: All allies get +x HP.

Sun Bell of Charm: Choose one of three charms, x times. (probably twice)

Obviously some of these ideas are perhaps too strong or weak, but I figure this thread could be a landing spot for a bunch of sun bell ideas and balance changes.

Ideas added in the comments (for reading convenience):

A different Sun Bell of Fellowship (from Mixmaw): Add a companion slot, companions are immune to injuries. (Seems skewed in strength towards sac decks, but interesting)

Sun Bell of the Journey (from me):(A take on a comeback bell for someone whose deck feels behind) Add an extra stop (limited to treasure or a character selection) to every path.

[quick arrow]

What about, for the Sun Bell of Fellowship, make companions immune to injuries? That way you actually want that extra companion slot and won't be bogged down by being asked to keep the extra companion alive, too.

[keen mulch]

This would definitely be interesting (maybe too strong) in a sacrifice deck

[bronze rune]

My main feelings about the existing sun bells is they're too weak, I'd literally probably always prefer a crown over one and that doesn't feel like a boss reward

[keen mulch]

I agree, I think adding more bells, that are clearly strong, would help put the hand manipulation bells into perspective

[quick arrow]

i agree with the draw bell and companion bell but bell bell is insanely good if you have noomlins. i think the issue is more that having noomlins isn't guaranteed in any deck

[keen mulch]

I definitely think the redraw bell is really strong though

[bronze rune]

Don't get me wrong, card draw redraw bell timer are both solid upgrades, but they don't really scream "boss reward" to me

It's a nice thing to get that doesn't feel all that exciting

[keen mulch]

The boss reward balancing in this game reminds me a lot of Isaac and STS's boss rewards, both can be really strong, but are generally just good buffs

I don't mind them being that way since they're the only things in the game that affect your deck passively

[quick arrow]

on the other hand i think crowns are far too strong

[bronze rune]

STS's boss rewards make your entire run, getting an extra energy every turn is pretty much better than anything in the game
My main problem with the sun bells is that crowns are better than them

[quick arrow]

bell of +1 crown would be a more appealing pick than bell of hands for sure

[bronze rune]

And don't get me wrong I think crowns are fine the game would be a nightmare

Without them

[quick arrow]

i think the game is overbalanced around them

[keen mulch]

^

[quick arrow]

no crowns = lose and i don't think that's great design

[bronze rune]

Definitely, but it's kinda where we're at and I think it'd require a huge overhaul to fix it

[keen mulch]

That's a different thread's discussion though

[quick arrow]

honestly just moving crowns from shops to boss rewards would be enough lmao

[keen mulch]

I think getting a crown after every boss is the solution

Get a sun bell and a crown

[bronze rune]

I suggested that in the crown thread HAHAH

[keen mulch]

EZ

[bronze rune]

It'd even make sense since the bosses start out innate

You knock it off em

[quick arrow]

shops are far too strong and important, basically the whole game is combo farming and it makes most runs very win-morey and kills comeback potential

all imo obviously

[keen mulch]

I agree

[bronze rune]

If you get to the second area and don't have 3 crowns

[keen mulch]

I was thinking of a comeback bell, but it fell into a sort of win-more idea

[bronze rune]

Good luck tbh

I really would say that the second difficulty bell is literally 100% more beneficial than detrimental because 1 single crown is that big of a boost

[keen mulch]

The idea I had in mind was

Sun Bell of the Journey: Add an extra stop (limited to treasure or a character collection) into every path.

The balance behind it being, in a good deck you don't want either of those, and in a deck that's behind you need them

But it seems too weak 🤷

[bronze rune]

I feel like it's impossible to add anything into the game thats better than a crown

That's the issue

Lmao

[keen mulch]

Oh definitely

[bronze rune]

Without it being op that is