Powerpuff Girls

[urban marsh]

espiecially now with the side b range nerf in the air it's even harder to recover against him

[ancient flicker]

its very possible. Its also just very hard to play neutral against so many characters since were straight up just slower than most now. (since were locked into playing blossom, and even if we played bubbles were still slower than some)

like its very hard to get in on jack

and we have to get in on him so many times, cause we just cant combo people like we used to

and yes I genuinely think that some of those mus are -3, which is 80% in the opponents favor.

[urban marsh]

no yeah i agree with those -3 mus

i'd even argue agent smith is -3 that mu is rough too

[ancient flicker]

like dude I personally didnt think raven was that bad until I played one that was competent. OH MY GOD, WHAT DO WE DO, we get clipped by everything, zoned to hell and back and die so early, its also so hard to edgeguard her with her side special like bro we got nothing

[ancient flicker]

I used to think so too, but after the nerfs I think its a lot more manageable now.

honestly prepatch smith mightve been -4, undeniably their worst mu

[urban marsh]

yeah

[ancient flicker]

happy to hear you agree with most of it though, glad im not crazy

[urban marsh]

yeah i agree with a lot there's not much i would change and even then i can see the reasoning behind it

there's mus like tnj i 100% agree with though

[ancient flicker]

which ones you disagree with?

Id like to hear others opinions on things. dont be shy, tell me!

[urban marsh]

well i already said jack as one

i think garnet is also either -1 or even

garnet nair is such a huge problem in that mu

it might be a personal struggle on my end but i really struggle with garnet

[ancient flicker]

this is fair as well i was on the fence about adding it to even or winning and went with winning cause +1 was really lonely lol

[urban marsh]

that's fair

[ancient flicker]

this is very true our only counterplay is parry, ig we could grounded upspecial but its not fast enough to use lol

[urban marsh]

sometimes it feels like this character has no winning mus tbh

like even jasons i struggle against now cause we can't really combo or kill consistently

[ancient flicker]

thats because we have no advantage state, we win neutral and get so little off each win then we die so early and are combo food, its devastating. on average each neutral win im getting like 4-12% Sometimes I get 20-30 or if I line up a bunch of reads like I did here I can do 80% but thats not consistent nor is it a common occurrence. Like watch this.

#combos message

majority of other characters would just kill them for half as many reads

[urban marsh]

yeah

like it's bad we even have losing mus against some of the worst characters in the game too

also after today i feel like reindog is almost like a -2.5 mu basically

i learned we can't buttercup laser his fireball for some reason

and that mu is already so hard with how easy we get zoned out and are just combo food for his sair chains

[ancient flicker]

by the way 4-12% is the max i get per average neutral win, WITH PUGILIST SNOWBALL AND COLLATERAL LMFAO

[ancient flicker]

it is really bad man

i just didnt want people to hate me

you get zoned out to oblivion

[urban marsh]

yeah that's bad

[ancient flicker]

and just deleted if he touches you

we get combod into oblivion by him its insane

[cobalt saddle]

I’m still very new to using ppg so most characters are hard for me. I agree that Jason and other slow characters are super easy to annoy with ppg.

But everyone else I’m sweating to get a kill

[ancient flicker]

i think he has some zero to deaths on us unironically

[urban marsh]

i hate how people don't acknowledge how actually insane reindog is

[ancient flicker]

Thanks for sharing!

[ancient flicker]

indeed. hes not bad at all

[cobalt saddle]

Hell yea I witnessed dope reindogs especially in 2’s

[ancient flicker]

btw @cobalt saddle remember I told you that this confirm could kill early? Check this out #clips message

[ancient flicker]

you 2 @clever juniper

[ancient flicker]

What do you think of this @urban marsh

[urban marsh]

it's a good confirm sometimes

but ik he prob died cause bad di also really small side blast zones

[ancient flicker]

yeah we were literally hugging the blast zones, that confirm can just carry people offstage sometimes

dead off of ppg jab at 17

[urban marsh]

i think i've slowly got a few combos we can kinda do but it's only airwalker scream things

[ancient flicker]

post it in #combos then send the message link here, im interested to see what you've cooked my friend.

[urban marsh]

I'll try to post them when i can

[ancient flicker]

sounds good

reposting this so it doesnt get lost

#clips message

Any and all of their +2 / +3's are completely gone.

[urban marsh]

actually the more i try these they don't work cause of di

cause they start with jab jab down attack which is way too inconsistent for these

i might just keep the thought of the combo and wait till mid season where we might get buffs

[ancient flicker]

you might have to start the combo with blossom and then swap to bubbles to do the first scream

[urban marsh]

i tried that but there's not enough time to get in the air for airwalker

[ancient flicker]

not even after the scream?

[urban marsh]

yeah

unless im doing something wrong which i might be but idk

well it works if they don't mash out of the scream

it's hard to gague in training cause we can't control how much the bot mashes

[ancient flicker]

lets pray they drop the controller during our combo lmfao, the fact that, THATS A REQUIREMENT, is crazy

[cobalt saddle]

Yea this is so damn cool. I gotta learn it soon

[ancient flicker]

https://vxtwitter.com/NoContextCrap/status/1862027394216874154

on the brightside this exists

[urban marsh]

yeah i know

[ancient flicker]

oh yeah you cant embed

lol

[urban marsh]

it's insane

anyway i'm prob done labbing anything for the night

i might try and push closer to masters tmr

[ancient flicker]

ditto, im diamond rn

[urban marsh]

i just got into diamond yesterday

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

getting out of diamond v has been hell, I keep just running into the same -2's or -3's and just get destroyed cause the mu sucks lmao

AND THEY ARENT EVEN OUTPLAYING ME

IM WINNING NEUTRAL MORE THAN THEM LIKE 2-3X MORE THAN THEM

but their character doesnt need to win neutral as much as mine so yeah

[cobalt saddle]

😬

[ancient flicker]

indeed

In the beginning of the season when i just read the patch notes I was hopeful, I still thought they might be high tier, but I was so wrong.

[urban marsh]

same

[ancient flicker]

Im usually positive and not a pessimist, but bro Im just being honest, they suck lol

[urban marsh]

they do

[ancient flicker]

I honestly didnt think the mu chart would be that negative, but every mu I just kept thinking "this mu sucks now"

[cobalt saddle]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone 🙌🏼

[vocal folio]

WHOS IN THE PPG SERVER LET ME IN PLS

[vocal folio]

U TOO PAPI

[ancient flicker]

theres a ppg server?

[ancient flicker]

Ditto!

[ancient flicker]

air walker might be the wave for ppg atm

this is interesting and Il give my take on whether its meta for them or not after getting better with airwalker. https://medal.tv/games/multiversus/clips/j9VYekoN8l4jm1Ngu?invite=cr-MSxaanYsNTc3NjcwODQs

clip courtesy of @tardy canopy

[ancient flicker]

@clever juniper

[clever juniper]

YAYYY NEW STUFF

Tysm

[ancient flicker]

I need to practice it, play with it, and learn it and see what possibilities are consistent etc. Basically i need to mess around wiht it some more, but this is something new someone showed me earlier, Il post here if its meta after that happens. It might be, seems to open up capabilities for them quite a bit, supposedly the jab jab phone was true here since he was like inside the garnet, apparantly you just need to be in sus range for jab jab phone to be true. (kissing distance) so forget spacing if thats what you're going for. And I mean you have to be REALLY close.

The guy who showed me this labbed some combos with chemical x and airwalker doesnt jive well with chemical x at all

[clever juniper]

Damn it

Ill look into this new meta

[ancient flicker]

same here

btw this is the type of spacing we need for jab jab phone to be true #clips message

@clever juniper

otherwise it just doesnt work

that screenshot is of jab 1

also looks like on bigger characters you can do jab jab phone (if it works) into side b and it true combos, not sure if thats consistent on smaller characters.

[ancient flicker]

Played a bit with #1 ppg in ranked yesterday in a custom lobby and I learned a few things. Learned an instant air dash attack tech and also learned what potential airwalker has. It unironically gave me a handful of hope for the character. DONT GET ME WRONG I STILL THINK THEY SUCK, but they might unironically be low hightier or better. AT WORST they may be high mid tier. I genuinely think its a game changer. YOU CANT DO MUCH WITH AIRWALKER, and its not too versatile, since you can only use it from one setup, however the use that it does have is quite good, can provide pretty solid kill power / combo / damage potential.

[ancient flicker]

btw air walker stuff only affects bubbles honestly might make her WAY better than she was before, competing with blossom for best girl

blossom is probably still the best, cause i mean for bubles to have access to her airwalker stuff she HAS to land grounded side special, where as blossom can just kill lol. Bubbles can kill at quite early %'s granted the right setup, Side special -> airwalker -> jab 1 upsmash is REALLY good, does great damage and can potentially combo into upspecial depending on weight / %. and at 80-100 depending on the character you can just delete people from anywhere on stage by hitting that.

I still need alot of practice with this new stuff, but it seems quite on the girls and is definitely meta changing in a few mus.

[pure bay]

Can you send me these things?

[ancient flicker]

already posted an example of it

[ancient flicker]

.

@pure bay

i actually havea clip of my own thats pretty good weird jab hitbox tho lmfaooooo

[pure bay]

You telling me llegend is number 1 ppg?

[ancient flicker]

yeah. hes a solid player and uses things that are ahead of the curve imo. Air walker is probs the new wave for them considering we cant combo without it tbh, or rather our dps is infinitely worse without it. it opens up new possibilities that are otherwise impossible since majority of our combo game is extremely reliant on jab atm. #clips message

Hes also a pretty solid player.

[pure bay]

Whats he doing there, weird as hell

[ancient flicker]

they're just better ig, bros a grinder. Why shouldnt he be there?

hes also #1 harley rn, #7 gm

[pure bay]

Yeah, ik him as a harley player

Dunno where and when he picked ppg up

[ancient flicker]

who knows

regardless i learned some new ppg stuff from him

the entire time we played he was BEGGING me to enter tournaments cause im apparantly really good

i was laughing the entire time

heres a clip i just got of airwalker doing magic. @pure bay #clips message

like bro this hit @pure bay
#clips message

[ancient flicker]

@clever juniper there is hope

[pure bay]

Truly should nor have

[ancient flicker]

eh ig it makes sense, looks like they have a mean inner hitbox so the jab works up close (which makes sense) just seemed jank in the moment)

#clips message

[ancient flicker]

Alright, true decider moment, I honestly think airwalker is meta for ppg atm, its 100% worth learning. specifically just because playing bubbles is nice for the movement buff. I feel like PPG right now has to really pick and choose which girl is best for the situation, If you're trying to rack up damage bubbles is your best bet cause she can use airwalker, If you just lost a stock and want to come back with trades or without taking too much damage, I think blossom is amazing for that since she kills but still has movement so you wont be sandbagging by playing her, and buttercup is amazing for cheese kills or for swap combos. I feel like unless the blast zones are giant majority of the time to kill (if you cant get a side b with bubbles) you want to play blossom when you want to kill or swap to buttercup during a ledge trap. Both are amazing. @clever juniper @cobalt saddle @urban marsh @vocal folio RIght now we can do quite a bit of damage with acrobattack, snowball, airwalker, and pugilist. with side special dash attack nair or jab jab swap dash attack nair im getting around 28-32% per neutral win as opposed to the previous 4-12%. And on during highs in advantage with air walker extensions / reads you can get 50-90% depending on how early they were when you started and also how big they are in addition to weigh. Its a lot to consider, but I 100% think its worth learning. Right now when you're playing bubbles side special provides zone and stage control where if the opponent enters that zone its quite risky for them cause if they get hit they're taking 30% minimum. And potentially might just die if they're at 90%. Bubbles is quite threatening at a few %'s and I think its worth experimenting with. Please let me know if you have any questions or thoughts.

its kinda the same thing in terms of combos or follow ups from airwalker, but its good enough where it doesnt matter, jab1 uptilt, upspecial dash attack does a lot of damage.

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

like after using what he taught me IM now #8 lmfao. Dont think it was a skill issue, just was uneducated.

[cobalt saddle]

Appreciate all the sauce, I have much labbing to do lol, I never learned airwalker for any character yet so this will be a big obstacle for me to get used to

[tribal thistle]

You're cooking

[wet robin]

Lmao I was playing them yesterday and was so mad while playing this genuinely gave me hope to actually be a good ppg main

[ancient flicker]

me neither its weird but definitely cool / new

never cared for it or really wanted to learn it but they have great setups with it

[ancient flicker]

anyitme, if you need any advice or have questions dont be afraid to ask

[ancient flicker]

ggs @placid dock assuming you're the guy i just fought on ranked

you're real for homie stocking that 2nd game

[urban marsh]

i love buttercup aerial down b not killing arya at 120

it's so great

why did they gut this moves kill power so hard

[urban marsh]

@ancient flicker how do you fight bugs?

[ancient flicker]

its so weak now its not even funny

I know it was kinda op before but like it was a di check 99% of the time

[ancient flicker]

we can more or less deny tunnels with phone on most stages. We cant exactly stop him from placing the tunnels, but we can stop him from using them ehen theyre there. He usually likes to place them on the edges of the stage or get you inbetween them somehow so he can play monkey in the middle. If you ever see him enter a tunnel just phone and it will deny him and you get a combo / stage control. We can also kill him quite early patience is key cause he dies mad early so we have to work less for each stock. Side special is also something quite good in the mu as you can just use it and he cant really challenge it with anything besides upair (if spaced) or upspecial. It out prioritizes majority of his moves quite well and if we land it we get a combo or stage control. I havent fought a bugs since learning airwalker tech, but I thought it was quite a good mu for them before as long as you're patient, avoid rocket / anvil and deny him tunnels. I was thinking it was even though because hes just a better character and sometimes can just kill us at ludicrously early %s. But with new airwalker tech and combo routes theres potential for it to be another +1. I need to play more ppg and decide.

pay me please

[urban marsh]

i see

i always struggle with bugs rn

it might just be i'm not use to spacing down attack rn cause of the size decrease since the spacing would be a bit different

also i honestly think superman is +1 mu for us tbh @ancient flicker

bubbles speed gives us a really good advantage in the mu

plus up b is really good at edgeguarding him and could get some really early kills with how predictable his recovery is

[ancient flicker]

its the same just less lenient rn, space the same, just imagine they gotta be closer by like 1 ppg blob

[ancient flicker]

I think so too, honestly potentially +2, Need more exp with good supermans. But with armor breaking perk or airwalker that mu is really hard for him after learning bubbles grounded side special stuff. You just deny air space with air dash attack and if he grounded approaches we side special and get a combo

[ancient flicker]

100%.

instant air dash atk tech is gamechanging

[vocal folio]

no seriously what am i supposed to do with that

Not to mention you can’t combo after it OFF COURSE you can’t

[ancient flicker]

yeah legit nothing combos into down special from the air

@urban marsh @vocal folio the only things we have that combo into that move are phone and grounded bubbles side special (neither of which are worth it cause the move got gutted. Id rather just sair, upspecial or aerial dash attack.

#combos message

this is cool and all, but I highly doubt this is very consistent if you mix Di's or even di up and away or up and in

[ancient flicker]

@clever juniper heres new ppg stuff

[placid dock]

No idea why my phone only just now notified me of your message, but yessir, that was me lol

That stupid "accidental off-stage S-air SD" still costs me matches with embarrassing regularity

[ancient flicker]

it happened to me twice game 2 lmfaoo

u a real one for homie stocking

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

I wish our multihits worked.

#combos message

[ancient flicker]

LIKE DUDE WHY

#clips message

our multihits unironically just dont work @pure bay @urban marsh @vocal folio @cobalt saddle @clever juniper

the size change "buff" hurts us so bad its insane

#clips message

Bruh
#clips message

[tribal thistle]

Pls fix sair

[ancient flicker]

probs never gonna happen unfortunately.

its gone a whole season without being fixed

they clearly have stated that this messed up sair we have is intentional

[tribal thistle]

Man.

[ancient flicker]

Man.

[vocal folio]

Man.

[cobalt saddle]

Omg this is rage for me lol

[ancient flicker]

imdee my friend, even with airwalker tech and instant air dashattack I still think the girls are mid, probs top of midtier though. Mainly because they get bodied by super common super meta relavent characters like arya, batman, harley, tom and jerry etc. Theyre not BAD tho ig. Just not as good as other chars are atm. They have a bunch of minor issues that shouldnt even exist. Im hopeful for buffs / fixes later though, gut first and buff later right? RIGHT?

[cobalt saddle]

I’m VERY sure they getting fixes. Cuz all these move drops are ridiculous

[ancient flicker]

theres unironically clips of new bs with them literally everyday

and thats been happening since the season started

only recently are we getting some hope filled "theyre still good i promise wink wink" clips lol @cobalt saddle

[ancient flicker]

also
#clips message

and before people say "you spaced badly" or "you were too close" NO I DIDNT, i hit hit him with tipper nub #clips message

tipper nub and this confirm still fails, thats insane

[ancient flicker]

#combos message

[ancient flicker]

meter management is kinda important with airwalker though, costs the same amount as a boost jump (half your whole meter)

#clips message

[ancient flicker]

i didnt even realize it was you again @placid dock ggs lol

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

[cobalt saddle]

Riiiiight, all these wink winks but it’s like no…..we see the truth lol

[marsh pewter]

Why does it feel like I'm slower than Jason while playing them

[ancient flicker]

our move speed, when using a move we slow down significantly, and our range also got nerfed quite a bit with the size decrease

[ancient flicker]

also the way our model lags behind in a lot of just movement animations cause one or two of the girls is behind the main one also adds to it

#clips message

#combos message

not true by anymeans but a solid mixup to go for ig

in theory I couldve followed up more if I didnt get stuck on platform, I had the read lmao

[wet robin]

Nah harley be whopping me so hard with her gloves side special and down special in air

[ancient flicker]

down special in the air isnt hte worst thing to deal with, air dash attack destroys baloons, But that mu does suck yeah. Its potentially -3.

[wet robin]

mu?

[ancient flicker]

mu = MatchUp

[ancient flicker]

is it just me or does our disadvantage feel SO MUCH WORSE this patch, like i feel like i lose neutral once and either get 0-deathed or take 60%.

and if i live i struggle at ledge for ages

im probs gonna update my mu chart soon, cause things have changed, but jesus christ our disadv is horrifically bad.

every move we have thats fast to defend our selfs makes us a bigger target, before we had big hitboxes to go with us being a giant blob but now we dont. ontop of us not having those anymore this patch our only moves are like nair and upair, and nair makes us WAYY bigger and easier to hit and is decently slow, and even if they cant hit us before we nair it has a lot of endlag now so they can just whiff punish it lmao.

Morty might be a -3, unironically its so hard its not even funny

[ancient flicker]

ima post morty clips like bro this mu SUCKS #combos message

[ancient flicker]

#combos message

#combos message

#combos message

#combos message

#combos message

#combos message

#combos message

#clips message

heres a little bit of sugar to make lessen the pain lol

#combos message

[ancient flicker]

start here if you are at the bottom of everything i sent, i want talls take on everything i sent.

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

bro.

[ancient flicker]

this is good however, figured this out earlier when theory crafting. #combos message

its true and seems WAY more consistent.

plus we get more damage so it probably kills earlier too

positioning kinda needs to be tight though

I could only get this when across stage as you can see here, so its niche but a really good optimization for sure in a neutral win

he was definitely holding HARD away this whole time, so its true on DI away.

@clever juniper new ppg stuff

[tribal thistle]

📝

[ancient flicker]

#combos message

Im #3 now which is cool ig

#combos message

anywho raven skin confirmed

[ancient flicker]

@tribal thistle read from here, I want ur thoughts

[tribal thistle]

I haven't played too much ppg this patch yet, but from what I have played, yeah disadvantage is rough

And some of these matchups are brutal

[ancient flicker]

yeah sometimes it feels like you cant do ANYTHING

like you have no options

[ancient flicker]

fair enough

[tribal thistle]

Hopefully mid season patch brings some buffs/fixes to them

[ancient flicker]

seriously, christ.

[vapid void]

Looking like I took a good time to take a break from the game

[ancient flicker]

some ppg stuff is honestly kinda busted atm, mainly jab jab swap up special. I also feel like offstage pressure is still pretty great. our neutral and adv /disadv is def worse tho

its not all bad

[ancient flicker]

looksie here @vapid void

also this @vapid void #combos message

[vapid void]

i see we goin airwalker

always did suck with airwalker but hey if its the best way to play ill have to adapt

[ancient flicker]

air walker is def meta, theres some stuff we can do with catching dodges into ground side special (bubbles) airwalker jab 1 uptilt, does great damage and if you catch di it can combo into up special -> dash attack. plus it sends them off stage and further into disadvantage. I wouldnt have gotten into masters without it

we are really limited without it.

[vapid void]

What personal perk are you running? Before I was completely extra ingredient.

[ancient flicker]

acrobattack, imo having it as an extra movement option, combo tool and edgeguarding option makes it way better than chemical x. (mainly cause we dont have aerial neuteal special confirms anymore it sucks, nair not comboing into anymore sucks)

plus you can spike people when ledgetrapping, by jumping and angling it down toward ledge, you can cheese people with it sometimes offstage

[ancient flicker]

I usually run Acrobattack, Snowball, Airwalker, Pugilist, on some mus like vs superman, wonderwoman or jason though I like to run Armor breaking dash attack perk, having a move available to me at all times to just ignore their shield buff is extremely nice.

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

this confirm is really good (first clip) second clip is just nair jank lol

@clever juniper this confirm is really good and worth learning. @vapid void more reason to run acrobattack

[ancient flicker]

Updated my chart.

#clips message

Changed some mus after learning instant dash attack in the air, and also airwalker tech

some people say iron giant is like +2 or +3 for ppg, I just dont think so, hes quite hard to kill and even though we destroy him in advantage, he can just touch to death us if we whiff. Its a good mu for ppg but the fact that he can just 180 the stock is kinda crazy. Il be up 150% on him then just get hit once and die, and now hes winning lol

btw superman / jason / wonderwoman are all considered with using the armor breaking dash attack "2 fast 4 you" perk that makes your dash attack break armor. it can provide some really good pressure.

ESPECIALLY since they fixed it this season and made it so the aerial dash attack from acrobattack actually breaks armor now, it didnt do that in season 3.

actually banana guard can be -1 i forgot my fault

[vocal folio]

Does anyone know if the armor break dash attack perk applies to ppg in the air?

[tardy canopy]

yes it does

[vocal folio]

tyyy! 🎀

[ancient flicker]

@vocal folio yes

[vocal folio]

wow that’s my bad for not reading

[ancient flicker]

indeed friend

[ancient flicker]

dude ppg feels SLOW right now, in gameplay and in neutral, like even our ground speed feels slow now. The crazy thing is that I dont think they touched bubbles speed since last season. Maybe since our advantage got gutted they just feel alot slower? Not sure, but NOW you can REALLY feel alot of characters outspeeding you. arya batman shaggy and harley are some big ones

[vocal folio]

I think it’s a ps4 wide thing where if u have more than one ppg on screen the game just lags so bad 😭similarly to that old jake up special bug. it’s been killing meeee

[ancient flicker]

I play on pc, so im not experiencing that. they just feel so slow now, their animation dont help either cause some of the girls linger behind making them feel even slower than they are

[ancient flicker]

#clips message

airwalker is pretty meta in a lot of mus

bro got grabbed at 77 center stage and DIED

[ancient flicker]

since airwalker became meta

[ancient flicker]

yeah but alot of their kills setups are gone. (not countinv zero to deaths)

[deft vapor]

how are we feeling about the changes

[urban marsh]

we might be back

[deft vapor]

the nair changes 🙏

[light flume]

Did they fix the side air? (The move you might not use on edge or you Insta fall😭)

[deft vapor]

OH MY GOD NAIR FEELS SO GOOD NOW

[deft vapor]

this character feels so nice now

arcobattack is the best choice cause you can string so much together

[tribal thistle]

Acrobattack my beloved

[green geode]

No clue til I can test them

Having air dash attack still send down sounds stupid but ig thats the bandaid fix were sticking with

[deft vapor]

it feels good unironically with the nair changes

rn

[flat heath]

Chat, are we winning?

[green geode]

Giving me hope, Ill try em when I get home

They didnt say anything abt their size are they still teeny tiny? They looked kinda bigger in the preview trailer

[deft vapor]

i think they are bigger

[cobalt saddle]

Ppg got hella changes! Cant wait to see what it all means

[plucky path]

Ammm, Did they just nerf buttercup or is it just me?

Because my grip didn't do its usual insta kill

If not a pathetic push up

Mmm, everyone is so happy so, maybe it's just me

So Skill Issue I guess

[deft vapor]

they did nerf the side special a ton

[fluid compass]

yeah ive noticed but its an insane combo tool now to compensate

[vocal folio]

no 💀 just made it deal more damage and knockback

[vocal folio]

as it should be tbh

[ancient flicker]

THERE WERE CHANGES? HOLUP

WHY DID NOONE TELL ME

DOES FSMASH COMBO NOW? 26 FRAMES IS HUGE

[deft vapor]

nair is peak again

extremely peak

[ancient flicker]

AH HELL NAH

HOW DARE YALL NOT @ ME OR SOMETHING

CMON

I POSTED SO MUCH ABOUT THIS CHARACTER

NAIR COMBOS AGAIN

IT DOES SOMETHING NOW

LETS GO

21 FRAME INCREASE ON THE CANCEL WINDOW THATS HUGE

[deft vapor]

you can do insane combos with acrobattack

on stage

[ancient flicker]

tech chase stuff?

[deft vapor]

also it seems they migth have increased their size a bit?

no true

[ancient flicker]

i had theory crafted in my head

[deft vapor]

well you have the old

jab jab phone nair dash into nair

then chase someone

[ancient flicker]

jab jab phone doesnt work pepega

[deft vapor]

it does

still does

[ancient flicker]

ooooo

[deft vapor]

played matches with it

[ancient flicker]

fair got massive buffs

[ancient flicker]

you mean "IT DOES NOW" ? cause it definitely didnt before

[deft vapor]

oh with the stupid hitbox stuff right

it defo is more consistent

i dont think i had anyone drop out of it in the few matches i played

the up tilt stuff also is good

even though it was counted as a nerf

[ancient flicker]

wat

oh

[deft vapor]

less likely for them to fall out

[ancient flicker]

jab 1 uptilt looks more consistent now

[deft vapor]

yea

[ancient flicker]

cause you move less far forward now

so far i agree with most changes

[deft vapor]

this character ACTUALLY has combos again

[ancient flicker]

looks like theyre sticking with teh size decrease

but adjusting their entire kit

[deft vapor]

nair feels so insanely good now

[ancient flicker]

were finally out of 2piece meta? LETS GO

[deft vapor]

you can COMBO AGAIN

[ancient flicker]

we unironically had 1 combo before, jab jab swap dashattack nair

that was it

[deft vapor]

you have essentially every option out of nair now

[ancient flicker]

does fair still make us drop like a weight

[deft vapor]

i didnt check much

[ancient flicker]

or did they fix that

doesnt seem like they fixed it

or the hitbox

[deft vapor]

probably not

[ancient flicker]

but it seems like a much better move to compensate for doodoo hitbox / fallspeed

[deft vapor]

but listen at least we got this

🙏

[ancient flicker]

nair changes are huge

unironically they gutted it

and gave us back the guts

[teal wadi]

Broken

[ancient flicker]

WE CAN FASTFALL DURING DAIR NOW ?

LETS GO O

[teal wadi]

Nerf this character

[ancient flicker]

go cry somewhere else, we were suffering

[teal wadi]

No u wasn’t

[ancient flicker]

YES WE WERE LMFAOOO, bro we lost to majority of characters

[teal wadi]

S4 ppg didn’t even touch B tier

[ancient flicker]

losing to more than half the roster

[ancient flicker]

u right, we were under that

[teal wadi]

That’s it?

[ancient flicker]

-2's against half the roster is a really bad thing

[teal wadi]

Nubia the goat probably has 3 winning MU

[ancient flicker]

i cant speak on them

[teal wadi]

That’s such a lie

[ancient flicker]

but I feel like its def not that bad

[teal wadi]

-2 is nearly impossible

[ancient flicker]

its not bro what, they either destroy us in juggles or disadvantage

and were giant

we take 60% from one neutral interaction

and we couldnt do the same back cause no combos

[teal wadi]

Marvin VS IG is an example of -2

[ancient flicker]

so is ppg vs harley

or ppg vs batman

[teal wadi]

No its not

[ancient flicker]

theres mus are horrifically bad

at least they were

idk about now

[teal wadi]

-1 at most

[ancient flicker]

rip blossom freezebreath killing

[teal wadi]

It’s not impossible. -2 can’t be thrown around like that

[ancient flicker]

it was -2

MINUS 2 ISNT IMPOSSIBLE

[teal wadi]

That Nair needs a nerf

[ancient flicker]

its just really hard

??????????

what planet bruh

[teal wadi]

Nearly impossible

[ancient flicker]

no it isnt

thats 70/30

thats not impossible

-3 is

they had 3 -3's

[teal wadi]

I meant nearly

[ancient flicker]

tnj, arya and raven

iirc

[teal wadi]

Bros caping

[ancient flicker]

im not

you didnt play them last patch

[teal wadi]

But either way still A tier

[ancient flicker]

those mus were horrific

@tardy canopy we mighta lost our airwalker setups im ngl

Ground Side Special
– Grab no longer breaks armor or breaks shields
– Blossom throw damage reduced to 6 from 8
– Blossom throw knockback reduced to 1400 from 2100

• Blossom throw knockback scaling increased to 15 from 2
  – Bubbles throw damage reduced to 6 from 9
• Bubbles throw knockback increased to 1400 from 1100
  – Bubbles throw knockback scaling reduced to 15 from 26
  – Buttercup throw knockback reduced to 1000 from 1400
  – Buttercup throw knockback scaling reduced to 12 from 15
• Buttercup throw hitstun increased
  ~ Buttercup throw hitpause increased
  ~ Buttercup throw knockback angle made more downward
• Buttercup throw knockback influence multiplier reduced to 0.8 from 1.0
• On-hit cancel window advanced 22 frames
  ~ Attack movement now completes on-hit

[teal wadi]

Oh boy. Here’s the new meta

[ancient flicker]

nair time 😄

[teal wadi]

so if “trash” ppg had a +1 against Nubia would this be +2 now

These mains don’t know the real struggle

[tardy canopy]

nope

jab jab side b is true

with new patch

and ppg has tods again

[teal wadi]

Can we see clips

[tardy canopy]

yea i can screenshare them to you i dont feel like getting them all

i can showcase new sauce she has

shes broken

[ancient flicker]

no, its possible but thats not how mus work.

[ancient flicker]

im talking about post throw you ding dong, Like does throw true combo into anything anymore? or do we just gotta run in now or what

Air Down Special
– Knockback reduced to 1500 from 1800
– Knockback scaling reduced to 12 from 24
– Hitstun reduced

• On-hit cancel window advanced 9 frames
  ~ Now allows more player movement control during attack

REDUCED?

that moves never gonna kill now

[tardy canopy]

yes

it combos into airwalker still

jab jab side b airwalker jab

[ancient flicker]

i see

good to know

[ancient flicker]

first impressions, nair is weird now, less active but also probs less punishable because of that

it feels faster

on startup and like less whifflag

[cobalt saddle]

I appreciate all of you ppg lab monsters. I finally got home, gonna dabble myself

[ancient flicker]

they feel really similar to last season

at the end

no broken down special in the air tho

is it just me or does knockback feel way different this patch
like i feel like people get deleted way faster

[toxic island]

any high master ppg? was hoping to score a teammate for 2v2

[ancient flicker]

feels like ice breath has a LOT more endlag

[ancient flicker]

im #3 ppg last i checked

[toxic island]

cool we should play sometime, im number 4 rick around gm 60 last i checked

[ancient flicker]

sure add me: Eclipse1017

[toxic island]

ill add you real fast but we will have to play later gotta go do something but if you see me online invite me

[ancient flicker]

no worries

im just tryna shmoove with new ppg

they def better but feel weird

it feels like im playing rivals now

[toxic island]

interesting

ive done pretty good with some ppg ive run into they seem really good in 2v2 when in advantage

[ancient flicker]

its like alternate universe ppg

slight differences everywhere lol

[toxic island]

they had a ton of changes tbf

[ancient flicker]

yes they did, theres some changes that look like werent even documented.

[toxic island]

I was reading some of the other chats people are reporting the same thing with other characters

[ancient flicker]

if thats the case maybe they forgot stuff or idk

[green geode]

Played a bit yesterday, jab jab into phone still whiffs huh? Youd think itd be fixed

[cobalt saddle]

Jab jab neutral attack into air chase seems to be the best choice now tho

[ancient flicker]

yeah, its a lot more consistent though

[green geode]

both seem like good options just one doesnt work sometimes

[vocal folio]

i miss the buttercup YEET lmao but yeah this is healthier

[vocal folio]

yeah that’s part of their size decrease, i think it’s intentional

[green geode]

I get its a bit insane with it covering other options while comboing someone but idk just looks like its broken

[tardy canopy]

this patch airwalker is more of a preference now then a necessity

ppg does insane dmg without it and has early kill potential you dont rly need airwalker

ill still use it in some mus but ima use collateral some more

[cobalt saddle]

Oh is collateral dope on them? Besides dair what else makes opponents hit the ground???

[tardy canopy]

rainbow dash into fast fall nair for some reason

[cobalt saddle]

Oooooo ok!

[vapid void]

its gonna take forever for me to get used to buttercup side special not killing or down aerial

[ancient flicker]

It feels like it conrfirms into her upair on certain DI's mainly di in. So it could still just kill sometimes if you're ready to confirm

[idle radish]

hi!

ive been getting into ppg gameplay recently i was wondering if anyone had any tips or combos i could use?

ive primarily been using side side down special and then up special but i dont know what else to do other than that

[vapid void]

god its gonna take a while to get used to the new ppgs

might just try to get to diamond and then practice in ranked 1v1s until i get the hang of them

[vocal folio]

i’m so tired of finally getting a grasp of how to play them and then throwing that all out the window next patch

[vapid void]

It do be like that

They're clearly a difficult character to balance

One moment she has 0tds the next they change a bunch of stuff to get rid of it and she feels like garbage to play and then suddenly she's getting good and bam another patch

A character like PPG is just doomed to be polarizing in a platform fighter

[ancient flicker]

some characters are just good. Imo their disadvantage makes up for it, it feels impossible to land / not eat insane combo strings sometimes

[ancient flicker]

they were NOT getting good last patch, people were just discovering new stuff with them. not much new stuff, one sig perk was completely unviable and the other gave us our only combo string lmfao

even with the stuff we discovered they still lost to more than half the cast

that does not a good character make

[vapid void]

ill admit i was sleeping last patch so i keep forgettig it happened lmao

[ancient flicker]

they were terrible last patch, felt terrible to play as / against, and also were just bad all around. You should be happy you missed it

like the fact that THIS was a "clip" should say enough. All I did was get one combo(our only), stringed an upair and then landed side b lmfao

#clips message

@vapid void

[vapid void]

Yeesh

Yeah that looks bad

They did a early mid season patch for s4 right or no?

Because I feel like I'm heavily having a Mandela effect

I played like s4 for a week or so before just going on break

[vapid void]

Either way at this point I'm not gonna get attached to any 0tds since they're gonna get messed with at some point

[ancient flicker]

they were touched in the start of season 4, they were not touched in any patch except the most recent one

[limber iris]

Did anyone else see that they made a Hypergalactic puppet of the PPG in rifts, but it’s not a skin in the store?

[ancient flicker]

yeah, who knows, it might drop when marceline drops

[urban marsh]

jab is kinda insane now that we can dodge cancel it

[ancient flicker]

yeah its like everyone elses now lol. What is some of the stuff you can do now with jab 1-2 that you couldnt do before?

I will say jab 1 phone just seems mad cursed. and tbh now that I think about it, jab 1 phone is probs the wave for airwalker (even though airwalker kinda sucks now) cause jab1 upsmash/tilt is super inconsistent with airwalker now. At least for me.

[twin mango]

PPG got there 0toDeath back and that’s crazy

[ancient flicker]

iirc we can only get it off our jab, so its quite niche Esp when you consider everyone and their mom loves being in the air in this game (not defending it, just saying its not the holy grail people think it is)

[twin mango]

Well I beg to differ cause even if it seems to only be possible from jab it’s still something that i believe shouldn’t have been given back to them. I literally just had a Harley teammate in 2’s get 0tDeath 4 times by them before I was even kilt once. Now if Harley can’t even escape the 0tDeath being as small as she is then that’s truly a problem in my opinion.

[ancient flicker]

being small doesnt matter for combos 90% of the time in this game, surprisingly being heavier does. The heavier you are the less hitstun you take in multiversus (for whatever reason) and its the opposite for light weights, so harley gets combo'd harddddd

[ancient flicker]

also im pretty sure nair up special isnt true at all unless you hit them with the back hit of nair cause you just need to di away

and you're most likely not hitting the back hit of nair at all unless they DI in and you space well which is quite hard to do

[pure bay]

isnt it supposed to be true? nair doesnt send as far anymore

[ancient flicker]

its true on certain characters / dis. From my experience its only true on most characters IF you land the back hit of nair IE if im comboing someone towards the left here, I HAVE to clip them with this part of nair otherwise they can DI out of nair upspecial

[twin mango]

Yeah I didnt even know that about Hitstun and I’ve been playing since S2. Yet even still though with as small as Harley is she is harder to hit. The thing with what they’ve done to the PPG is reduce their knockback which means it’s harder to DI away from thier combos cause there isn’t much distance given from them when they attack

[ancient flicker]

some things are guaranteed on her, EVEN IF SHES SMALL, she gets combod harder than your average joe cause of her weight

[pure bay]

i mean, thats how ive been seeing it, but hey, glad ppg is doing better tbh, tho im sad that they're able to do jab stuff now since i had been complaining abt that since release 😔

[twin mango]

Yeah it’s more true now cause they heavily reduced their knockback making more their moves confirmed again.

[ancient flicker]

wdym??

[ancient flicker]

indeed, we finally have combos again

[pure bay]

reverse dtilt dodge bug, jab 1 bug, jab 2 was also weird, and dtilt itself

they fixed them, but i dont play them anymore sadly

[ancient flicker]

I think nair upspecial is fine atm, I HAVE NO IDEA WHY THEY MADE neutral atk COMBO??????????, I also think buttercups upspecial base knockback could be lowered a bit (not a ton, cause it should still be strong, but lowered wouldnt kill the character and remove alot of dumb stuff buttercup has lol)

[twin mango]

Well I just understand from the patch notes on them and even what I’ve seen happen just confirms that they’ve been reset to how they were when they first released allowing them to chain combo into the kill zone

[ancient flicker]

what bug? wdym?

oh

[pure bay]

oh dw, neutral attack always comboed, just not the whole cast

[ancient flicker]

Im #2 ppg, and trust me its super niche, they're more of a mu check than anything now. I do think some things should be changed, however I like their current design infinitely more than their last

[pure bay]

can they? dont rlly seem like it but sure

[ancient flicker]

also alot of stuff they got changed wasnt in the patch notes like at all

[ancient flicker]

they can but NOWHERE near as good as beginning of season 3

check ur dms

[pure bay]

sadly, uninterested in learning them anymore

maybe ill lab them once in a blue moon but thats abt it

[twin mango]

It’s one thing to have combos which i believe every character should have yet those combos shouldn’t always allow for quick kills to happen. It’s going to throw this game back to decreased player count cause the meta hoppers will go back to playing them and abusing the 0tDeath like they did last time cause even though shields were added it’s not something that everyone has become used to doing cause they only had it in testing for a little over a month and that’s a big adjustment for people to make with a game like this

[ancient flicker]

i see

[twin mango]

I’ve literally watched it happen to a Harley Teammate I had lol we got 4 stocked cause the PPG player 0tDeath them all in less than 2 minutes

[pure bay]

tbh, during their good patch, i only saw like 2 good ppgs

[pure bay]

maybe they were bad, we never know

[ancient flicker]

LITERALLY THIS

just cause a character is good, DOES NOT mean that people will play them

pikachu in smash ultimate was undeniably top 1 for literally like 5 years

and was only played by like 1 guy

[pure bay]

tbh, he wasnt top 1, and still isnt

it was just kinda like public perception, but he was amazing regardless

[ancient flicker]

he definitely was dude, the fact that he had 1-2 losing mus MAYBE, and had literally everything a character needs says enough

[pure bay]

he was just hard to play professionally, and now is lame, for most ppl, as his best strategy is to camp

[pure bay]

still wasnt enough, smash is smash

[ancient flicker]

bro had insane combo routes, offstage pressure, out of shield options, a kill throw, loops, early kill potential

etc etc

[ancient flicker]

wdym it wasnt enough

it definitely was

he was 100% top 1

HE DIDNT HAVE A WEAKNESS, and still doesnt

every other character in the game struggles in one facet of gameplay, whether its an aspect of disadvantage, like recovery or landing, Or getting comboed, Or just struggles with shield, maybe gets camped hard, has a bad grab so they can be outplayed with shields etc

pikachu had none of that

[pure bay]

then why is he, yk, worse? theres a lot more to a char than just hv the options tbh, weird right?

[twin mango]

Yeah idk about that. In my opinion a MU check would involve more of a knowledge of the characters moveset and how everything about them works. Yet if they constantly changing how a character works then how can you keep an understanding of MU knowledge? It’s like a teacher giving you a study guide for multiplying and then on the day of the test she gives you a test on fractions.

[ancient flicker]

hes not worse though, what are you talking about. ???

[ancient flicker]

dude the mu is very similar to what it was like at the end of season 3, theres a few things that changed but overall they're worse.

and they were straight up bad

last patch

[twin mango]

I mean I wouldn’t think so with the Harley player being a diamond 4 and having a 75% win rate

[ancient flicker]

so alot of what you used before applied + you didnt have to worry about alot of stuff they had before

[ancient flicker]

ranked doesnt mean much unfortunately my friend.

let me say this

ppg is light

and big

which is a bad combo in mvs because that means they get combod to oblivion and back

and die early

[pure bay]

i dont think 2s players hv individual prowess, or at least need it to be considered good

[ancient flicker]

So my advice in the mu is, either get them in a juggle, or if you get advantage on them, SMOTHER THEM, they have like 0 "get off me tools" their only thing is nair or airdodge, and nair makes them WAY BIGGER and easier to hit, so if you were already gonna swing at them in disadvantage their gonna eat the hit and not accomplish anything

they also struggle to land

seriously go ham

mash on them

[pure bay]

not making fun of any1, nor saying they HAVE to be able to do so, but putting 2s players in 1s generally ends up being a disaster, and funnily enough, good 2s players also do at least decent in 1s, think theres a reason fot it

[ancient flicker]

their disadv is bad

[twin mango]

No way you’re saying they are worse when earlier you confirmed they had their 0tDeath back lol. How are they worse when they have a confirmed 0tDeath again? It’s clear as day that the developers knew what they were doing giving them more power but reducing knockback.

[ancient flicker]

i said its niche and not even true alot of the time if you just di away

also

they had zero to deaths

OFF NAIR

that was infinitely bettter

the move was bigger

less laggy

faster and more active

had a better hitbox

and it lead to zero to deaths

THEY WERE DEFINITELY BETTER BACK THEN

[twin mango]

Yeah thats true for them back in season 3. Although it’s niche as you said changing up the route they go about it still just doesn’t sit right lol. But time will tell how this community feels about it after a while.

[ancient flicker]

duh, the community is full of whiny babies and if they see something they think is dumb they call for it being gutted, its called patch culture. Obv I dont like zero to deaths in any capacity. But if its niche and really rare I dont think its a super huge issue like people make it out to be

[teal wadi]

#1 Ppg was right

This character is top tier 💀 again

[vocal folio]

we get it be quiet

[vocal folio]

idk why y’all have to come here just to complain about it and share nothing useful, just notifying more people about the otd, THAT YOU ASKED TO SEE!!!

[ancient flicker]

frfr

[pure bay]

yk what, ppg has broken combo, and therefore they should overbuff harley

thnx for coming to my ted talk

[distant mango]

I can't with how menacing they are in online matches AND THEY'RE JUST LITTLE GIRLS

[vocal folio]

Super hero lil gurlssss

[teal wadi]

I asked to see it so I can play PPG in ranked

[ancient flicker]

LMFAO, you cant make this up

[toxic island]

I'm unsure as to why Harley Nair doesn't do 87 percent, games unplayable #buffharley

Dash attack should just explode the opponent, if you're able to connect it

Anyway how's does ppg feel this patch?

[pure bay]

EXACTLY, you get it

[toxic island]

Glad we're on the same page ❤️

[ancient flicker]

they feel amazing. Not as good as the end of season 3, but they do feel INFINITELY better than last patch

[teal wadi]

“Not as good as the end of season 3”

Bro they were top 2 mid season 3

[ancient flicker]

they literally arent. ????

duh they were better then

[teal wadi]

Ofc they weren’t. It’s hard to beat that level of brokenness

[ancient flicker]

but i was comparing post nerfs

christ

dude

when I said "not as good as the end of season 3"

I wasnt talking about a tierlist

or how good they were

I was talking about how they felt to play, how moves felt, movement, etc etc

please stop assuming everything is about how good they are

I mean, the question LITERALLY was "how does ppg FEEL this patch?" not "how good are they" or anything related to that

i still think movement was better before during moves and so was our hitboxes / bigger moves (cause we were pre-shrinkray)

[vocal folio]

Powerpuff girls felt amazing and were a strong but balanced character on release ASIDE 🚨 from the obvious OTDs which i have to keep saying every five seconds.

But y’all aren’t ready for that conversation

[ancient flicker]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

they had some really busted options like aerial downspecial (even though 99% of the time it was just a DI check,) But tbh do you really deserve to DIE for di'ing wrong at 40-60? no I dont think you do. Its way too weak now however. But yeah their main problem was 0td's. I dont think they were a big issue outside of that. They had an awesome advantage But I think at the end of season 3 they were in a good spot. They felt way more balanced out. (aside from aerial downspecial. I really do like some of the changes theyve made in s4 with them though, making grounded swap a combo starter was a really good move, makes them not so reliant on phone and it allows for more devastating finishers since you can swap to a stronger/faster girl. Last season that move had 0 purpose. I also really like the upair change and the dash attack change, the new aerial dash atk is obviously worse, however the offstage pressure you can apply with it or just while ledgetrapping is super strong since you just can spike people offstage and thats scary for them.IT also opened up way more combo routes than they had before. So overall (outside of rarely ttd'ing people sometimes) they work harder now than they did before but can still get a lot done.

[teal wadi]

There was some really good uses with swap combos. You had combos like this one
#combos message

Swap cancel combos made sure you didn’t even need to choose buttercup. For example I was 99% bubbles, all I had to do was hit a jab and swap cancel uptilt to buttercup to kill at 80%+
#clips message

this was way better than picking buttercup because atleast you keep your original speed

[ancient flicker]

@teal wadi in both of these examples this is not what im talking about, im talking about the initial swap hitbox, in these videos you sent they're swapping while buffering another move, Thats not what i meant.

ik we had good "swap combos"

but im referring to the ones where we actually use the swap hitbox

[teal wadi]

On realease (not including 0td) they were NO where near being a balanced character:

1. they had multiple 50%+ combos of a jab #combos message

2. going to damage wise, I don’t know if it is still the same but a lot of ppgs moves were 10%+:
   dtilt 13% / dair 14% / nair 11% / uptil 16% etc

This wouldn’t be a problem if these moves couldn’t combo into eachother, she did more damage than Nubia(not including spear grab) and Nubia is hella slow with diable combos

3. Even ignoring the 0td, #clips message this just can’t be balanced

4. They killed way to early aslong as you knew the kill combos

5. stun without counting the stun 0tds, Stun was and imo still is very broken.
   On release stun lasted for so long to the point you could even use airwalker to follow it up.
   #combos message

This would not be a problem if stun could not combo into itself, like Beetlejuice but it can

[teal wadi]

I could continue but there’s no point they weren’t even close to balanced without 0tds

[teal wadi]

Ooh ok my bad. Yea swap combos were really unreliable

I only did swap cancelling then

[ancient flicker]

1. A LOT OF CHARACTERS have 50+% comobs off jab, so this is a moot point. 2. dtilt does 5% now, nair does 6 after the buff recently. Idk about dair, uptilt does the same but lets be real its a super high commital move, cause if we whiff where sitting ducks. old ppg airdash was broken it should only have 1 use in the air, im not arguing that at all. (shoutout to the person in that clip for having speedcore in the bg, 4. some moves sure, but jab 1 uptilt didnt. UPTILTS STRENGTH HAS NOT BEEN TOUCHED AT ALL, people just finally are starting to realise "oh i should hold away" and now arent dying at 90 lmfao. tbh with how much bigger they were its possible jab 1 uptilt mightve dragged you up SLIGHTLY further, but I dont think it wouldve mattered much. by 5% most likely at the most. 5. stun is ok atm with ppg, air dashattack allows for so much more pressure than neutral special stun can provide currently so its just a worse sig perk atm. im not entirely sure if their neutral special got nerfed STUN WISE at all. and idc enough to check back however I think its very possible people just figured out how to mash. (if it has reduced stun since then ignore me)

[ancient flicker]

mhm, they were bad

and the swap hitbox was literally useless

unironically was just for disrespect / a meme.

but now it actually has a use so I really like that change.

[teal wadi]

1. Yea maybe a minority of the cast have 50% true combos, But did they have multiple? ppg had so much it wasn’t even funny the clip I sent I didn’t even use airwalker uptilt for the extra 16%

It didn’t even matter which perk u ran, just had to go to training for 10minutes and boom 50%+.

2. We are talking about ppg on release yea its good they reduced the damage because that amount of damage was wayy to strong. You dont have to worry about whiff if you just used to move to combo it into it eachother

4. Yea you could di uptilt but I was mostly referring to upspecial, air downspecial and other stuff

5. Yea im not so sure if they have changed it since you can still use airwalker. But honestly airdash and chemical one is just based on your type of playstyle

Ive always like having stun way more

[ancient flicker]

I DIDNT READ THE REST, but as #2 ppg trust me acrobattack is definitely better

you're kinda throwing if you dont use it cause SO many routes arent open to you

[ancient flicker]

upspecials knockback is exactly the same. ???

[teal wadi]

Rank don’t matter. It’s preference

Even high rank Nubia players are split between 5% perk or stun perk

[ancient flicker]

downspecial got nerfed TWICE HARD.

[teal wadi]

Yea we are talking about ppg on release

[ancient flicker]

I agree it doesnt matter, however I mean it'd at least show Im not trash. I played with LLegend and the entire time he was BEGGING me to play in tournaments. Crying saying "WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL THIS TIME" "I EXPECTED YOU TO BE BAD BUT HOLY"

[ancient flicker]

my fault, I think some things were fine on realease and others werent. IMO outside of us having 0td and aerial downspecials strength I think ppg was fine at the end of season 3.

i also think they're fine now

[teal wadi]

Yea end of s3 I agree

[ancient flicker]

their 0td's are quite niche and di'able sure its dumb but like its not the end of the world. Cause its not something they can CONSISTENTLY do or rely on.

i agree 0tds are dumb

[teal wadi]

Only that period but anything before ppg s3 midseason nah

[ancient flicker]

but coming from ultimate where some characters entire thing are 0tds or just doing 90+% in one interaction into a good edgeguard / ledgetrap setup its REALLY NOT THAT BAD.

[teal wadi]

Bro what cap

[ancient flicker]

you so overrate them dude

im not saying they're bad

CAUSE THATS NOT WHAT IM SAYING

[teal wadi]

They are way to strong rn

[ancient flicker]

but lets be real you are super BIASED against them

[teal wadi]

Needs nerfs

[teal wadi]

I always thought ppg was hella strong in the first place

[ancient flicker]

bro cry about it, they were a midtier last patch, BARELY. Some characters are just meant to be good, and they still do have bad matchups trust me. so it is what it is

[teal wadi]

That’s the only reason I picked them up for season 3. Just to confirm my master rewards so I could try out a different character like Nubia

[teal wadi]

Midtier yea right

I garauntee you ppg was not worse than Nubia

[ancient flicker]

THEY LITERALLY WERE WHAT, they had a horrendous disadvantage and their advantage was extremely mid.

they also had a horrible mu chart

if you were losing to ppg last patch

it was a SKILL ISSUE

or you got outplayed

period

[teal wadi]

Lmao

[ancient flicker]

they were not good bro

[teal wadi]

Ppg is losing match up for me

I play Nubia

[ancient flicker]

fair enough

i cant argue that

[teal wadi]

And their matchups are way better than the actual midtiers

[ancient flicker]

????????

they lost to more than half the cast what are you talking about

[teal wadi]

Velma for example

[teal wadi]

That’s not even that bad imo

[ancient flicker]

PFFFT HAHHAAA

now ik you're joking

[teal wadi]

Ong I’m not

[ancient flicker]

good night demo, you cant be serious

LMFAOOOO

act

let me ask you this

[teal wadi]

Losing to 60% of the cast isn’t anything

[ancient flicker]

DO YOU THINK THATS A GOOD MU SPREAD?

bro

yes it is

tf are you on about

not to mention they lost to legit every common character

[teal wadi]

People say nubia was low A but she lost to way more

[ancient flicker]

-2 and -3 against SUPER RELEVANT, SUPER COMMON, SUPER GOOD CHARACTERS

that is horrible

no matter what way you slice it

you cant hold a T in a meta

where you cant even stand a chance against the meta characters

PPG COULD NOT

they lost to EVERY TOP TIER

AND ALOT OF THE HIGH TIERS

majority of them

probably all

[teal wadi]

So? My main still got called low A

[ancient flicker]

were not talking about nubia whats your point

let me say this

if they had that terrible mu spread

but it was against uncommon characters

I might agree with you

BUT IT WASNT

[teal wadi]

Giving an example. Your saying ur main midtier because of matchup spread Nubia has a way worse one

[ancient flicker]

it was against literally every common character, Batman, Harley, Arya, Banana guard, Raven, Tnj ETC ETC

legit so many of the most played characters

were characters we got obliterated by

their mu spread was ass bro

[teal wadi]

Wow the average Nubia bad mu still low a

Actually I think Batman was -2
Harley was close to -3
Arya was - 3
Tnj -2
Raven -2

[ancient flicker]

AT LEAST YOUR CHARACTER HAD CONSISTENT COMBOS!. and could kill reliably. Our kill options were literally all grounded. or going for a close to suicxde edgeguard.

[ancient flicker]

arya was -3, tnj was -3, raven was -3.

[teal wadi]

You seriously don’t know how many combos of ours is diable

[ancient flicker]

I think the others were -2 but stilll

[ancient flicker]

I very much do

but you still have pressure in other areas that ppg just didnt

like in a juggle

ur juggle game is / was WAY better than ppgs

[teal wadi]

Well it depends on how the tnj plays for us. Aggressive like hcf we lose

Passive -2 at best

[ancient flicker]

it was -3 regardless of anything for us

meaning 80% in his favor. WE SHOULD NOT BE WINNING THAT AT ALL WHAT SOEVER. thats how bad that is

we didnt have combos or anything to make up for it either

[teal wadi]

Offstage game is better you cover way more

[ancient flicker]

with upspecial sure, but thats it, nair was kinda mid last patch. sair was a suicxde move and dair got heavy nerfed although it was still kinda good, but wasnt something you could go for consistently

[teal wadi]

We only have Velma IG and Jason as winning the rest is losing or equal

[teal wadi]

Actually I’m not sure about Jake now but we are talking about pre patch right

[ancient flicker]

yeah

regardless

no matter how you slice it

ppg wasnt good last patch

they were mid tier AT BEST

[teal wadi]

Low A

[ancient flicker]

You're so biased its insane

[teal wadi]

It’s hard to be midtier

No joke

[ancient flicker]

LMFAO

im done with this conversation

gn man take it easy

[teal wadi]

You have to be garbage like Velma

[ancient flicker]

THEY LITERALLY WERE

LFMAOOOOOOO

gn man

[teal wadi]

No they weren’t

How many winning MU did ppg have then

Velma has none = from #1 Velma

Complaining about not many winning mu when some characters have 3 or 0

[ancient flicker]

nubia maybe? jason, iron giant, jake. Literally none of these characters are common and none of them were +2, some were BARELY +1.

[ancient flicker]

I thought you said rank didnt matter?

[teal wadi]

True

[teal wadi]

And wonderwoman and superman

Having a winning mu against ww is quite insane to me

[ancient flicker]

oh yeah superman, that was def +1 maybe their only +2 honestly that was kinda bad for him last patch.

[ancient flicker]

I dont think they won against wonderwoman last patch

[teal wadi]

U Saïd before they won

[ancient flicker]

i said last patch

?????

i sad they went even

if i miss typed and said they beat ww i missspoke

or was just on a hype train of aerial dashattack finally working with armor breaker

tbh tho just cause you can kinda invalidate her down special, that does NOT a winning matchup make

I think it couldve been -1 tho with some combo routes ive seen with wonder woman recently

(she hasnt been changed iirc)

[teal wadi]

Alr

Then Velma

[ancient flicker]

i thought htey beat velma

and then i fought one that was competent

I TRIED EVERYTHING THEY HAD

it was so bad

[teal wadi]

Come on bro

[ancient flicker]

THERE WAS NOTHING WE COULD DO SOMETIMES

AGAIN we had a bottom 2 -4 disadvantage.

[teal wadi]

Who was it?

[ancient flicker]

it was horrifically bad

i dont remember

they were movin tho

[teal wadi]

ZZlucid

[ancient flicker]

maybe? idk

who're they?

[teal wadi]

A high rank Velma, they cooked me on beetlejuice

[ancient flicker]

that tag seems familiar

it mightve been them

[teal wadi]

Maybe they were just good

[ancient flicker]

idk tho i could be wrong

[teal wadi]

Have you ever cooked an Arya so badly despite it being a -3

[ancient flicker]

They were, but after I lost i looked back at footage and seriously tried to figure out the mu, and there was genuinely a lot of situations they put me in that I COULDNT DO ANYTHING ABOUT, we had no options a lot of the time

[ancient flicker]

yes, her being light helps.

[teal wadi]

Everyone has. And they probably think ppg is gonna be a bad matchups after that exact match

[ancient flicker]

what

?

[teal wadi]

That’s exactly what happened with that Velma player

[ancient flicker]

what are you replying to

[teal wadi]

^ this one

[ancient flicker]

o

[ancient flicker]

me being light is a detriment that transcends just getting lucky, I get combod harder and ppg being a giant blob doesnt help

so its a moot point

[teal wadi]

Actually I might see it tbh. Especially with the projectiles and staying away from nair

[ancient flicker]

our disadvantage is / was HORRIFIC

[ancient flicker]

LITERALLY

i couldnt get in at all

I TRIED EVERYTHING

I won a game iirc, and was actually adapting

but I just had no options a lot of the time, it def wasnt a skill issue

just a mu dif

[teal wadi]

Thankfully I got grab as soon as they go into a projectile animation

My reflector is so ass I can’t use it against her

[ancient flicker]

Velma was horrible last patch its probs a lot better now cause we actually have options now

in that mu last patch our only options were: get lucky with aerial dashattack, OR zone them with side special (or get lucky with jab) and none of it was working

i thought it was +1 before i fought them

then i got humbled and placed it in -2, it honeslty mightve been -3 but Il never know cause i didnt have much more experience with a good velma

[teal wadi]

Nah

Now ur doing too much

[ancient flicker]

im not

you had to see that set

[teal wadi]

Oh yea I agree

[ancient flicker]

it was horrible

we had no options man

oh

nvm

[teal wadi]

I got cooked when I fought an actual good Velma

[ancient flicker]

it happens

shes a rare character

[teal wadi]

That was the only time I fought one. And it wasn’t on my main

[ancient flicker]

so NOONE knows how to fight her

[teal wadi]

So I’m not so sure

[ancient flicker]

its the benefit to playing characters that are rare like that

noone knows the mu

[teal wadi]

Im pretty sure the Velma I fought on beetlejuice could have beaten me on Nubia

I couldn’t approach

[teal wadi]

Yea

[ancient flicker]

LITERALLY, and as ppg I WAS GETTING CLIPPED BY EVERYTHING

EVEN WITH DODGES I WAS GETTING FRAMETRAPPED TO OBLIVION

so it didnt matter

however

with shields the mu is DEFINITELY better now

[teal wadi]

Yea. A lot of Velma don’t really need to approach because of their projectiles

It’s much different now

[ancient flicker]

frfr

[teal wadi]

Im sure they don’t even have to deal with passive play

[ancient flicker]

yeah thats kinda what projectiles let you do

thats why they're king in legit every platfighter

[teal wadi]

There’s no point in playing passive against them, you will burn all dodges by avoiding the projectiles

I really don’t like the way mages are designed in this game

[vocal folio]

1 & 2. You convinced me with the damage numbers here, that’s pretty nuts. But they nerfed the digits HARD. to a point where you struggled to get over 180 at one point. I agree with you here

3. heyyyy that’s an otd so this point is invalid. 🙃

4. Shaggy, Jason, Joker, Smith, Beetlejuice, Banana Guard, Garnet, Taz + all kill relatively easy as well and alot of them don’t need combos. Only thing i’ll bend on is the power of their uptilt, it’s very very strong. Let’s not act like they’re the only character who can kill consistently around 90%

5. Yea stun shouldn’t combo into another one at higher %, or at all. or max one other time. Idk balancing stuns is hard. this is valid

All i’m getting from this is a slight dmg nerf and minor nerfs in key areas. Not wild drastic changes that ruin the buttery smoothness and flow of the kit. They’ve been through hell instead of them just fixing little problematic areas. They are allowed to be strong with how many characters are up there

[teal wadi]

Ok, but I will agree that if they reduced the damage and a few moves knockback for ppg release they would be balanced.

They had Arya type combo game but Jason damage 💀

But the other reworks with airsidespecial was needed

[teal wadi]

But imma be real, they have just made ppg a cheesy character again

Aeris was known for abusing nair upspecial/airdash attack and they add it back again while giving ppg more combo game than what they had in midseason 3

Give it some time this character is 100% meta again

[pure bay]

tbh, release was not fair at all, and the far nair was also not fair

[vocal folio]

if you’re gonna say because otd don’t bother

far nair?

[vocal folio]

no one else in the game has arya type combo game don’t even do that 😭

[vocal folio]

yeah idk how to fix that

[pure bay]

oh no but like, the original with da comboing into nair is insanely broken

[ancient flicker]

I GOTTA play you sometime. you need ppg mu exp

[teal wadi]

It’s not possible to win

Especially now with the buff

The only option is to play passive and that’s an annoying playstyle to deal with

[ancient flicker]

the fact that you think a +1 is unwinnable is insane.

although maybe its better now idk

i dont fight nubia

[teal wadi]

Much higher than a +1. ppg is 10times better now this patch

[ancient flicker]

true that

[teal wadi]

I was being dramatic about unwinnable but it feels like it

[ancient flicker]

maybe u just need more exp, be honest, you fight ppg a lot?

[teal wadi]

No

[ancient flicker]

if not and you dont practice it, you're asking to lose against them.

i see

then fight me sometime

you should focus on your worst mus first and foremost

as those are the most important for you to get down pat

[teal wadi]

Ok I can play. I gotta do something first I will be free in like 30 mins or something

Are u eu?

[ancient flicker]

i wont be free till like later today or tmrw

No im NA

[teal wadi]

Sorry was in a ranked set. Ok then tell me when you are free

It will probably lag since I’m eu but I’m just trying to get MU experience

[tribal oracle]

what happened to this character man, they deleted anything fun they had

[ancient flicker]

bro what, we got a lot of fun stuff rn, we got BUFFED

[twin mango]

The PPG are looking very top tier again

Yeah the PPG are broken now lol

[twin mango]

You tripping they traded “fun” for kill combos

[ancient flicker]

I think theyre good but Idk I dont think they were buffed into top tier. They seem pretty fair atm generally you just need mu exp

I think a LOT of people are super overestimating them rn cause ppg is actually a character again.

They still have clearly outlined weaknesses. They just also have strengths now too

[twin mango]

Stop it. Me and my teammate just got 0tDeath by the PPG at the same time. They are now just as broken if not more then when they first released they make them OP again and that’s that

[ancient flicker]

you're welcome to have your own opinion, Im free to also disagree with you.

Practice the mu more man. nair upspecial is only true if we land the back hit of nair

which DOES NOT happen in most use cases

[twin mango]

It’s not a MU thing it’s a broken character thing. The devs show they care but they don’t seem to get the idea of how to really balance a game. The PPG having a 0tDeath doesn’t mean that a match up is needed. Even with shields a character shouldn’t be able to have the ability to kill you in a constant combo from one mistake that’s made and that’s what the PPG are at right now

[ancient flicker]

it is a mu thing

you want to know why

cause you can DI out of nair upspecial

as i said before its not true majority of the time

if you're not di'ing out thats either mu inexperience or a skill issue.

[ancient flicker]

you should play smash ultimate, luigis entire gameplan is to zero to death you off of grab lmfaooooo

and theres a good amount of characters like that

[tardy canopy]

my fault king i was the ppg

[twin mango]

As much as I want to agree with you I just beg to differ lol. That’s what makes certain games fall off as they do or not be as popular as they could be.

[twin mango]

Yeah I know I’ve played against you before and your other character. You didn’t have to 0tDeath my teammate like that

[ancient flicker]

LMFAO

[tardy canopy]

and nah eclipse ppg is top tier rn

no denying that

[ancient flicker]

bro i hate 0tds as much as the next guy, but when theres counterplay, THERE IS COUNTERPLAY

[tardy canopy]

there wasnt

[ancient flicker]

dude there is what are you on

[twin mango]

Yeah it really wasn’t lol

[ancient flicker]

nair upspeical isnt true on di away unless you land the backhit of nair

btw

IM NOT DENYING THAT THEY ARE GOOD I dont want to come off as if Im saying they're bad atm or whatever.

[tardy canopy]

nah

its only not true if you hit the front part of nair

any other part and itll connect

and if you dash nair into them itll connect no matter what

thats what happened to typhoon and his tm'

[twin mango]

Bro there is almost no possibility to not hit nair with them

[ancient flicker]

you mean dash attack nair? i could see that working

dash nair doesnt work consistently cause you're moving and approaching

you have to space for it

[tardy canopy]

well yes

its not braindead

[twin mango]

Nah I got caught in your 0tDeath cause of your sweaty Marvin teammate lol

[tardy canopy]

but its consistent

di doesnt affect it much

unless you literally hit at the tip of nair

[ancient flicker]

this is just false, YOU ARE CAPPING RN

bruh if you hit with the front part at all its not true.

[tardy canopy]

i would know i do it consistently nearly every match

[ancient flicker]

i didnt test on top or bottom tbf

but on front its not true at all

[tardy canopy]

thats what i just said

[ancient flicker]

thats the enemy not di'ing right. Lets be real.

[tardy canopy]

no

it isnt

i just hit my nair consistently

not at the tip

if its not at the tip itll connect

and even if they di away you can jus sair

[twin mango]

Show him the clips @tardy canopy I know you got them saved lol

[ancient flicker]

dude even if you're inside of them its not true, not from my experiences anyhow

and from my testing

you HAVE to land with the behind hit

[twin mango]

Sounds like a skill issue

[ancient flicker]

@tardy canopy I got a skill issue, I cant compete bro its joever

[tardy canopy]

well then you hit it wrong

i do it literally every time

[ancient flicker]

I LITERALLY DIDNt

HOW CAN YOU "hit it wrong" dude its a giant circle

??????????

people i fight just know how to DI ig

[tardy canopy]

thats my question

[ancient flicker]

you should know how unlucky I am in multiversus, YOU of all people should know that

[tardy canopy]

and im higher mmr so im assuming they know how to di ppg

they jus cant

cause its true

[ancient flicker]

or they just dont.

[tardy canopy]

nah

it happens so muhc i dont clip no more

thats just the jason ppg mu

[twin mango]

Lmao that’s how @tardy canopy made me and my teammate feel so you’re not alone

[tardy canopy]

horrid

sorry yall didnt deserve that

[twin mango]

It was horrible to watch….i couldn’t even save him from it sadly

[ancient flicker]

Im being sarcastic, When I fought LLegend, he was BEGGING me to enter tournaments, he was crying about "WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL THIS TIME" "WHY HAVENT YOU BEEN COMPETING ALL THIS TIME? WHYYYYYYYY?"

[twin mango]

Then when I did try to save him I got killed too

[twin mango]

Lmao I oddly believe you about that

[ancient flicker]

"you will free up some of these pots"

"please enter christ"

i might be exaggerating a tad but that was the jist of it

[tardy canopy]

exaggerating hella

i was not glazing

[ancient flicker]

IM NOT

you definitely were

[tardy canopy]

i said you should enter tournaments thats ab it

[ancient flicker]

this was an exact quote dont even lie