Joker

[eternal dome]

it's joever for me

[brittle zenith]

Launcher is also okay but its hard to hit

[orchid bolt]

only works at specific percentage, different characters dodge out of it at different times so I just started doing jab 1 up smash as a kill confirm

[brittle zenith]

It works as a decent edge guard tool but only if your opponent is dumb really

[eternal dome]

That sounds cool also

[eternal dome]

I've been using Slide/Teeth as edgeguards

[brittle zenith]

Jab > jab > side b works though and it can be a decent kill confirm

[orchid bolt]

Aerial Down b gives joker so many different zero to deaths

[eternal dome]

Also sometimes the flower but that's specifically because I've seen a lot of Finn and Guard mains just... walk into it

[brittle zenith]

Air neutral b?

That ones funny

Lots of reach

[eternal dome]

Mmh, deceptive hitbox

I've mostly been playing Joker as just 'he has good buttons and some funny buttons also'

I know he's more than just good buttons but like, damn does he have some good normals

[brittle zenith]

I've been playing Joker as "wow this skin looks so cool 🤩

[eternal dome]

Which one?

Killing Joke?

[brittle zenith]

Bwl

[eternal dome]

How do you have him

Spent 2 gorillion dollars?

[brittle zenith]

I had all the BP stuff from beta and all Shaggys cosmetics

And twitch stuff

Thats it

That was enough

[eternal dome]

Ah that adds up

[orchid bolt]

i love killing joke joker

[brittle zenith]

I actually had LESS prestige than I should

I had 116k but I think I'm missing at least 30k

[eternal dome]

KJ is such an... interesting comic, but I do love the outfit from it

[brittle zenith]

I am missing dozens of cosmetics from holiday events and season 2 battlepass

[sudden dagger]

Smoke grenade is mainly a combo tool

[brittle zenith]

Yeah its not gonna hit on its own

Tiny ass hitbox

[eternal dome]

literally

[orchid bolt]

my stolen cosmetics are coming back bit by bit but ive forgotten what I had I just know I had more

[eternal dome]

It SOUNDS true? I mean I'll test it when I next play

[orchid bolt]

my batman emote is in the shop rn though and im pissed off

[sudden dagger]

I believe the combo goes like d-air d-special into up-special

[brittle zenith]

Dair down b is true

Down b up b is true

Idk if up b uair is

Pretty sure it is

[eternal dome]

I'd hazard a guess it looks true enough to fool people

[orchid bolt]

Dair down b side b up air is also true

[sudden dagger]

at least it can combo unlike flower (to my knowledge)

[brittle zenith]

The flower is a good attack still

[orchid bolt]

flower can combo iron giant but no one else ive seen

[sudden dagger]

yea I’m pretty sure it’s the only move he has that breaks armor

other than the teeth

[brittle zenith]

Joker card obliterates armor I think

[eternal dome]

I mean, that one perk can make slide a break

[orchid bolt]

love that perk

[sudden dagger]

better than increasing my damage by an unknown amount

[eternal dome]

What one are you talking about there?

[sudden dagger]

pugilist I think

[eternal dome]

They aren't the same slot, no?

[orchid bolt]

it's .5%

[sudden dagger]

uhhh lemme check

[eternal dome]

Oh that's.

Why am I running this perk

[orchid bolt]

nah idk what it is

[eternal dome]

OH

[sudden dagger]

that’s something alright

[orchid bolt]

maybe it's placebo

[sudden dagger]

dropping that perk immediately

[eternal dome]

Apparently it's about 10%?

This is just from a quick lil google search

[sudden dagger]

it’s higher than snowball?

that’s insane

[eternal dome]

Operative word 'apparently', I've not checked

But like Snowball is on EVERYTHING

[sudden dagger]

yea but if your using a mage you might as well use that’s flammable doc

I can’t English

[eternal dome]

Mh

Flammable is fun but I feel like I always overcommit to it

Like I have lost games to ape brain telling me I HAVE to use Flammable

Just running in at like 110 and dying

[sudden dagger]

they aren’t

[eternal dome]

Stack them, go

I feel like 2 fast 2 block is just a must run on so many characters

If you have a fast or otherwise above average dash attack it just does so much

[brittle zenith]

Seems like it

https://www.reddit.com/r/MultiVersus/comments/1d3pl08/pugilist_damage_increase_percent/

[marsh meteor]

Side b up air is true on certain di at certain percentages but is more inconsistent than up b uair

[sudden dagger]

why is balloon ride so incredibly bugged

[orchid bolt]

Joker rework when

[main quiver]

finally got bro

[orchid bolt]

does he have grounded dodge combos like other characters or is it only stuff that carries the blast zone

[brittle zenith]

Why not?

[brittle zenith]

Why?

[orchid bolt]

to get rid of down special

[brittle zenith]

I personally don't see the issue with it

[orchid bolt]

its bad

[brittle zenith]

Nahhh!!!

[brittle zenith]

@orchid bolt idk what 0td you're talking about with dair > down b > up b > uair
Most characters seem too heavy to even get hit by the up b at 0% and when they are it seems any amount of DI is enough to save them from a true down b into up b

[orchid bolt]

some

if theyre big its way easier to downb into side b

[brittle zenith]

I used it a couple times in a few matches and I can say it might be his most powerful kill move rn aside from Joker card, which is inconsistent anyways

[orchid bolt]

im trying to find a clip but i cannot for the life of me, its just one variation and i only go for it when they get launched straight up and are too close for me to side b

[orchid bolt]

better than upsmash?

[brittle zenith]

I've used it to get an early kill on a Shaggy but he didn't DI and he quit immediately after because he didn't like the skill gap ig

[brittle zenith]

Absolutely

Utilt requires you to charge it to kill

[orchid bolt]

the juice or the shocking hand

[brittle zenith]

Shocking hand

It's actually nutty

Just use it like a parry

[orchid bolt]

not rly
jab upsmash kills consistently at 100 and you have enough time to charge all that youll need

only big bodies live past that and at 100+ theyre ragdolls anyway

[hallow kraken]

i can’t really get it to work yet, you should share a video sometime if you have time :D

[brittle zenith]

Takes more effort than just pressing my left bumper the second someone swings at me tbh

I think it can kill at 100 on most characters

I killed Batman at 100

I killed Jason at like 120 but it was the AI Jason

[orchid bolt]

im gonna start trying it but landing a jab is much easier and safer than the hand move and it kills consistently

heart card into upsmash is also funny

[brittle zenith]

I wouldn't say its safer tbh

[orchid bolt]

you either dodge in and i hit you anyway, dodge out and i leave the interaction scott free, or get hit and die anyway

[brittle zenith]

With the neutral b, if someone hits you, they die

[orchid bolt]

but if they whiff, or the timings off youre exposed for a whole second

[brittle zenith]

With the jab, if someone hits you, you're in a high pressure situation where the next attack might kill

[brittle zenith]

I have good timing

All in the timing

It's genuinely a more consistent parry than the parry mechanic

[orchid bolt]

same can be said for jab, just dont get hit

plus it has the range of a truck, i pick people up while theyre trying to dair me 💀

also jab 1 into shock buzzer works since jab pulls in but i havent used it much bc ive been spamming upsmash for kills

[lavish grail]

Found a combo with grounded down special (note: only tested on shaggy and without any di, so it'll probably change a little with weight and stuff): parry --> heart card --> jab --> down special behind you

Jack in the box works till around 60, and cannon works till around 90

Oh yeah, tested it while directly next to shaggy cause I didn't consider spacing, lol

[orchid bolt]

have a clip?

[lavish grail]

No clip

Seeing what it looks like against gizmo rn, and seems like it stops working earlier than on shaggy

Jack in the box works till around 40, cannon till around 65 (still done right next to the bot)

Oh yeah, got the flammable perk and pugilist equipped as well. Not sure how much that affects it, if at all

[cosmic stump]

anyone like going against gizmo as joker?

[brittle zenith]

I don't like going against Gizmo

He's kinda broken rn

[nimble rivet]

NEED NEED NEED to nerf list:

banana guard (im banana guard main)
joker
bugs bunny
morty (?)
the brown gremlin

[radiant maple]

Good except bugs

[nimble rivet]

screw bugs so annoying

they need to nerf his recovery and safe i think

[brittle zenith]

Joker being put in the same tier as Bugs is insane

Wonder Woman ain't even there?

What about Shaggy???

[nimble rivet]

i messed up not putting ww there

she made it to every other time i spammed that lol

[nimble rivet]

he's definitely a cut above but i'd still like to see bugs nerfed

morty has a question mark too because i'm not sure

[brittle zenith]

Joker is NOT stronger than Bugs 😭

[marsh meteor]

I'm not so sure. I'd put them in the same category, right below ww Steven and giant before he got disabled

[brittle zenith]

Joker is closer to balanced than BROKEN

[marsh meteor]

He may be on the bottom of a but he's still a tier

If the three I mentioned are the s picks

He's at least the 7th best character, if not top 5

Depends on where you put gizmo

And BG if you think he's busted

[brittle zenith]

S tier are Harley, WW, Shaggy, Gizmo, Steven, BA, and debatably BG (in no particular order)
This means Joker can't be even top 7

[marsh meteor]

Id say all but BA are legit

Joker is better than BA

I also think Joker is better than BG

But that is harder to quantify

[brittle zenith]

I will HATE BA until the day I die

I've hated him since the beta and I hate him more now

[brittle zenith]

I'd say his general kit being more complicated gives him a higher skill ceiling which makes him look better in the hands of anyone that can think, and BG also seems to heavily rely on 3 attacks

BG is piss easy to read because of that which makes him seem a lot weaker than he really is

His hitboxes are scuffed and his kill power rivals Shaggy

[marsh meteor]

yeah but i think bg lacks that true you can just die at 0 that joker can do to the whole cast

like yes he can

but joker is way better at it

and thats what makes a top tier in this game is the ability to skip playing the game

[unborn spade]

how tf we counter banna guard

[brittle zenith]

Projectiles work well

I'd stun with a card, rush in and hit a dair > down b > up b > uair combo

If it doesn't kill, keep him juggled as long as you can to build damage

[unborn spade]

they legit spam charge

[brittle zenith]

When he's around 100%+, use grounded neutral b

[brittle zenith]

Just jump on top and bounce off the bastards head then

Pogo stick chaos

And again, if he's at like 120 damage you're practically guaranteed to kill with neutral b on the ground

If you use it right before his attack hits you, he's screwed and you'll hit him

Unless he uses armor break moves ofc

But spamming charge wont do that for you

You could also parry but the timing is tough

[unborn spade]

are you online?

wanna do first to 3 wanna see the difference between our joker gameplay

[brittle zenith]

I am not but I can come back to this after I get home tomorrow

[marsh meteor]

how do we play the shaggy matchup

[cold cove]

counter

him

easy

also

the airwalker perk

is it good for combos?

i feel like you can get a easy kill with it

[marsh meteor]

So we are waiting for him to approach mostly

[cold cove]

i play like that

but when is high % i use the neutral special to kill him if he goes for a kick

[nocturne sierra]

not necessarily but you do have to be really careful around him because he only needs a few hits to kill you

and if he starts spamming kick just go for handshakes

[cold cove]

true

ezz

dmg

and you don't get sent flying

[marsh meteor]

I played one earlier who hit me with the loops on every stock so I took 80 immediately

Not sure how to escape shaggy loops but it feels awful

[nocturne sierra]

i dont think you can tbh

you can DI out of it after 50% but if they know that and they aren't stupid they'll just start burning dodge meter to loop after 50%and when they burnout they just up special and you die

[nocturne sierra]

https://streamable.com/bfg343

cool option to get early kills off a stray side special or to use mid combo

[stray gulch]

Chat, any good streamers youve been watching that play really well as joker?

[brittle zenith]

Avoid his nair, jab, and dair those can put you in a loop that guarantees you lose the stock

Try and keep him back with the cards

Get as many early kills as you can probably

My favorite thing to do against any of these melee bruisers is to just parry with neutral b to kill

Safer than actually trying to hit kill moves, just dont whiff

[brittle zenith]

DI up is your only choice but good Shaggys can stop that

Shaggy is insanely broken rn theres not a ton you can do to win other than hit him with 3 0tds before he hits you with 3 attacks

[orchid bolt]

i do

[orchid bolt]

stand still and then jump or dodge behind them and combo

like a matador

[sudden dagger]

bait charge and spam cards

half of bg players are new so if you know how to read it’s a easy win

[marsh meteor]

Yeah I was worried the match up with shaggy was essentially don't vet hit

[nocturne sierra]

Playing in the air vs shaggy works well because they can't get as much from their hits

[unborn spade]

My joker Mmr not low I don’t get new people half of the people I fight got like 8k knockouts

[unborn spade]

I be trying jump but his head still be hitting me

[orchid bolt]

jump higher

[unborn spade]

My main issue is I be trying bait the charge and combo after they whiff but I always miss time it and get hit last second

[orchid bolt]

U can do it as soon as he pulls his arm back, he's forced to commit so u don't have to wait to get behind him until he charges

not too close though bc it has a back hitboxe for no reason

bananafraud

[orchid bolt]

Joker survived the patch with not a single change? Good work everyone 🙇‍♂️
We gotta keep up the downplay 🙂‍↕️

[nocturne sierra]

I don't think anyone's been downplaying ngl but cool that our character is still broken

I just hope whenever he does get nerfed his combos are still cool

[brittle zenith]

Not downplay

Joker is just balanced

Bring everyone down or up to Jokers level

He is the pinnacle of balancing

Perfectly balanced

All he needs are bug fixes fr

[hearty niche]

Time to start playing joker

Shaggy is in shambles

[brittle zenith]

Shaggy is still among the 5 strongest characters in the game dawg 😭🙏

[hearty niche]

He is gone (I’m coping)

[nocturne sierra]

Tbh I think they should just increase the top blast zone on most maps and then they won't even need to nerf joker because it feels way too easy to kill off the top right now even with other characters

And once he 0 to deaths stop working then he's not broken anymore

[brittle zenith]

His 0tds seem to die instantly when someone DIs

[nocturne sierra]

They just require you to read DI

[orchid bolt]

i agree with this mentality but joker definitely in the top 5 convo, hes made it to the table but idk if i would quite put him there

[orchid bolt]

not at all at all, read DI for some of them and others just do it again and its a guaranteed 20 or 30 to death which is still busted

they did get tighter this patch with that hit pause reduction tho, i think some of mine that were stretches stopped working entirely

[nocturne sierra]

Joker definitely isn't a balanced character he converts kills way too easily

[orchid bolt]

only tried them a few times and havent been able to hit them

[orchid bolt]

and with less buttons and less strict timing than anyone else

[orchid bolt]

this 100%, i would even say extend all the blastzones bc superman sniper punch shouldnt kill at 30 centerstage DI or not

the lightest of taps in the blastzone kill bc theres just nothing behind the curtain

[nocturne sierra]

That's definitely just a problem with sniper punch but maybe the sides could be a bit bigger too

[brittle zenith]

I would never put Joker in top 5 when Shaggy, WW, Harley, BA, Steven, and more exist

[austere haven]

Ya'll please help, i got a quest on jokers ruse and i gotta play pve games but when i play games on rifts or do battles it doesn't update or anything

[nocturne sierra]

Joker better than black adam ngl

[orchid bolt]

try jokering different

[nocturne sierra]

He's probably not top 5 though he's like 6 or 7

[orchid bolt]

yeah he just kills really easily

[orchid bolt]

i hope they give us something that makes down special (grounded) an integral part of the kit in exchange for the ztds

[brittle zenith]

Black Adam is top 1 and I will die on this hill

[orchid bolt]

idk about that

[brittle zenith]

Since Black Adams very release he's been the hardest character for me to fight

[orchid bolt]

hes cool, his combos are cool, top 1 is a bit crazy 😭

[nocturne sierra]

He missed a whole lot of top 8s for him to be top 1 tbh

[brittle zenith]

Broken character !!

They just buff him!!

He gets buffed every single patch !!!

[orchid bolt]

maybe bc hes not quite there yet

[nocturne sierra]

They gotta get him to top 1 first then they'll start nerfing him

[orchid bolt]

thats the goal

[nocturne sierra]

Crazy how the actual top 1 Harley Quinn gets no changes

[brittle zenith]

Harley was never as strong as BA

I could beat Harleys

[nocturne sierra]

Anyone who said WW was top 1 was just lying because people are too lazy to put armor perks on

[brittle zenith]

BA? Can't even get near him and taking any hit means 500 damage taken

[orchid bolt]

don't get near him

[nocturne sierra]

Skill issue tbh

[orchid bolt]

*Mage

[nocturne sierra]

Stop dodging directly into his side air while he juggles you

[orchid bolt]

just zone with cards and space with side b until kill % and when he's pissed off and antsy you go back to playing normally

[brittle zenith]

Joker, the mage with a whopping 1 projectile

[orchid bolt]

Air Side b plays neutral for joker, he doesn't even have to do it

[orchid bolt]

2fast2block carries the mu, she gets fodderized when i swap that in

got a whole anti WW loadout

[nocturne sierra]

Yeah same

[orchid bolt]

joker dash attack already goated for low profiling a lot of stuff

[nocturne sierra]

WW players crumble as soon as they can't spam armor on every attack

[orchid bolt]

and lasso edge guard was annoying but not unbeatable

[sudden dagger]

why is joker labeled as a mage again. it’s a blatant lie

[brittle zenith]

He has 3 or 4 attacks classified as projectiles

[sudden dagger]

half of them don’t go farther then like 3 feet

[livid gale]

how do you counter joker up attacks

his hitboxes are huge

[brittle zenith]

Parry or dodge

I dont think anyone has much for dair range

[orchid bolt]

that's what im saying bro

[brittle zenith]

Olay but he HAS the projectiles

Which makes him a mage

[orchid bolt]

nah

pseudo mage at best

[brittle zenith]

Not according to PFG

[orchid bolt]

Marvin is an assassin and he's 98% real projectiles

idc what pfg says 😭

[brittle zenith]

🤫

[orchid bolt]

if they swapped Aryas title to tank it's not making her more tank like

[brittle zenith]

It does trust

[sudden dagger]

is air walker good on joker?

[latent meadow]

Yes

Honestly it takes like an hour to get used to but its insane

jab dtilt full jump air platform jab jab dair special jab jab uptilt just kills

Seeing people die at 46 is doing smthn to me

Gotta see this in action tbh

[brittle zenith]

Air walker is good period

It betters recovery, gives better combo game in the air, and helps with kill confirms

[brittle zenith]

What special

[latent meadow]

down air special

aka dair special

[latent meadow]

I take this combo back its heavily di dependant

[orchid bolt]

Do you get specials back after? And jumps?

[stark edge]

Hello. I'm hopping on the Clown train which is ironic since I hate clowns

[brittle zenith]

Yeah pretty sure you do

[nocturne sierra]

No absolutely not

That would be way too good

[stark edge]

What is the best Perks for Joker?

[brittle zenith]

Wild card, rest are personal preference

And MU dependant

[stark edge]

Okay

Already been using wild card so

[marsh meteor]

Some fantastic stuff in the FlyQuest tourney for us

Also i don't think we need armor break vs ww

Neutral air special is way too good in that match up and side b in the air also smokes armor

[orchid bolt]

that 10% hit pause reduction really hurt me

more and more of my combos are dropping

a few still work but not many, i think i hit one zero to death today as opposed to doing one every match

it's also 1am tho so maybe im tripping and tired and my combos are still fine 😮‍💨

[brittle zenith]

That must be why I was struggling to land dair > down b a bit today

I read the patch notes and then just forgot they existed 5 minutes later

[marsh meteor]

Side b chains are the vibe holy cow

Saiki definitely just got joker nerved

Nerfed

[cold cove]

is the new event not supposed to come out today?

[orchid bolt]

who saiki

also yeah side b chains rule

[unborn spade]

Man I was wondering why every joker I fought last night was spamming that move on me last night didn’t know we got some new tech

[unborn spade]

He just won a tournament spamming side B

Joker getting nerf next patch 100% now

[unborn spade]

No don’t use it waste of perk joker doesn’t need it

[brittle zenith]

Dont worry, based on the last patch, the worst he's getting is a 3 damage nerf and HIGHER knockback

[unborn spade]

Wym higher knock back?

That mean his moves don’t make people go as far up?

[orchid bolt]

that sucks for combos

but is basically a positive outside of that 💀

[orchid bolt]

what tournament was this bruh? I wanna farm wins if they're just handing them out

[unborn spade]

something called fly quest

[chrome heart]

How does this new event work

[chrome heart]

So am i the only ones having problems where i use a ballon and i instantly die or my combos hitbos not heating

[brittle zenith]

The balloon issue is a known bug the devs are working on

Hitboxes not hitting properly could either be lag or just not understanding the hitboxes

Some are deceptive

[chrome heart]

Hmm its weird the characters are like recovering faster tan usual

[brittle zenith]

That was a new change
Hit pause is now 10% shorter in 1s

[wheat marten]

good change. for years ive been saying they should rebalance 1v1 and 2v2 differently

[nocturne sierra]

I'm sorry jokesters it was a good run I found lots of cool combos but I am switching to Jason

[chrome heart]

We willcsee u again

[chrome heart]

Ohh i got the batman who laughs skin now heheh

[brittle zenith]

Fire skin

Best skin in the game

[worldly barn]

Anyone got any joker combos

[wheat marten]

Does anyone know if you can iad into dair into uair?

or maybe better to iad into dair into dspecial into ballon into uair?

[chrome heart]

Does anyone know if i hit top one in this event are rewards from top 1 lost if i go down or is it guaranteed

[sullen geode]

someone here by the name of albiner?

[chrome heart]

Nah why

[sullen geode]

just played against him

prob the best joker ive played against so far

also the only one ive seen with the legendary skin

that costs 100k prestige points

[simple stream]

I just wanted to say that when I saw this a couple days ago, I immediately bought joker to try this out 😭

[nocturne sierra]

his combos are seriously so cool

[orchid bolt]

naw downtilt hitbox is broken

needs to be bigger

if i hit you with it you shouldnt fall out at all, point blank bottom line

if youre at 9999 yeah maybe you wont stay in it, but no character should just casually flop out of whats supposed to be one move

[nocturne sierra]

one weird thing i noticed while labbing is that different amounts of charge on down tilt are actually more consistent against different characters

like against WW if you charge it 100% it doesnt always fully connect but if you do anywhere above 75% and less then 100% then it does fully connect

for bugs you dont even charge halfway

[wind shell]

side special in the air is getting nerfed without a doubt

[nocturne sierra]

yeah it definitely will

if you hit a side special it basically just puts the opponent into a 50/50 where they either DI in and are at risk of getting hit by balloon/up air or DI out and risk getting hit by a second side special

or at super low percents its not even a 50/50 you just gotta eat it

https://streamable.com/y0jubc like this was completely true the harley could not do anything about it

way too easy to land for it to just kill at 0 if you catch them slightly in the air

[orchid bolt]

yeah half charge hits better on weird shape

[orchid bolt]

searching for my secondary now just in case the hammer comes down too hard

[orchid bolt]

i just lost a joker ditto but i was so confused because he got like 10 wilds

literally every card or every other card he threw was a wild

if there are two jokers do they draw from the same pile or something?

[nocturne sierra]

He was hiding extra wild cards under the table

[fallow spoke]

opp

[willow jacinth]

Any joker tips 🃏

[sullen geode]

played jason, got 5th in a tourney

lost to joker both times

it looks like im skill issued against this char

[mellow thicket]

You jokers are the new bgs lol

There is more then 3 moves on Joker

[brittle zenith]

Nah

He needs his upward attacks for kills

His side b carries his neutral

His dair and down b are needed for ladder combos

[cosmic stump]

why we coping doe

[brittle zenith]

And the rest of his abilities are just hot ass tbh

[mellow thicket]

lol

well makes sense for 3 moves then

his upair is hella fast

you can spam it faster then Bugs bat

[brittle zenith]

It's like Bugs's uair if it didn't kill at 20%

[mellow thicket]

I just got killed by joker at 37%

bugs bat doesnt kill until at least 60-70

[brittle zenith]

Bugs bat has more knockback, Bugs just can't set it up as well as the Joker

[cosmic stump]

just dodge xd

[brittle zenith]

If only the game would say "dodged" and then the attack would actually not hit you
Instead, you get the "dodged" prompt and then explode instantly anyways

[mellow thicket]

Just dodge has to be the most troll thing you can say in this game

[brittle zenith]

It would be a valid statement if the dodge button actually functioned like it should

[cosmic stump]

nah im serious just dodge

i see people do it all the time

i do it, its about that iming

timing

oml they just released a joker package..

i want the knock out thats all i want

[orchid bolt]

dont come here when u lose to joker, complain in #general LOL

i wonder if the channel full of only people who play character i hate are gonna agree with and validate my negative opinion on character i hate

foh

also @brittle zenith i lost to a BA in bracket

jesus man...i mightve been wrong about his top 1 status

[brittle zenith]

I've been saying this since day 1 and every time someone denies it they always come around eventually

[orchid bolt]

i have seen the light after fighting a REAL black adam

youre just trapped, its like he's throwing overheads with 10 foot planks strapped to his arms

[brittle zenith]

He also actually has an infinite loop apparently, far stronger than Shaggy's ever was

[orchid bolt]

i think its read based bc one stock i went 0-death another i DI'd out of it and he went the wrong way and only went 0-70

but it was still 0-70 in like 3-4 seconds

i gotta figure out the mu bc the black adams in my elo are all apparently poobrained and i have no opportunity to actually practice against his jank

[cosmic stump]

im gonna cry

i hate fighting steves and gizmos

its like thats all i see

[orchid bolt]

gizmo is a toss up, I haven't identified what works and what doesn't other than dash attacking the car, Steve just dominates and i only win if the player is bad

[cosmic stump]

i love joker so much yet it feels like he has so many bad match ups T.T

[brittle zenith]

Nah Steven, Gizmo, WW, Harley, and Black Adam are just all broken top tiers that guarantee a win that isn't someone else among those 5

[cosmic stump]

i thought i was the only one strugglign with WW XD

[brittle zenith]

Everyone is

Even the rest of the top 5 probably struggle with WW

She's insanely busted rn

[sudden dagger]

that’s fun part about Adam 90% of his players are horrible so you can’t prepare for the 10% that are actually good

[jade skiff]

join up

[minor rock]

So I just started playing joker since I have batman who laughs and had one question. Whats the real use of grounded down special and air down special. I've kinda figured out the use for everything else but these 2 moves

[nocturne sierra]

Air down special is great for reversals while getting juggled and for combos

Ground down special is just useless

[minor rock]

Oh lmfao I thought it was just a skill issue

Also thanks I'l try to utilize air down special for this

[sudden dagger]

if you want some tips for air down special combos you can do d-air d-special up-special

[mellow thicket]

Nah WW is easily #1 character in the game rn after the ig fix

Ig was only better because of infinites so that's saying something

[nocturne sierra]

I don't think joker WW matchup is bad you just need to change your perks for it to deal with the armor

[minor rock]

Im obsessed with the N-ground, up-ground, Up special, Up air

[brittle zenith]

Her sair beats everything basically and hits really hard

[minor rock]

Not N-ground I meant Side-ground my B

[brittle zenith]

Jab?

[sudden dagger]

it’s that’s flammable doc good on joker or should I just be running snowball effect for 1s

[minor rock]

Yea the jab

[brittle zenith]

Snowball effect is useless

7% damage increase means you'll deal an extra 1 damage every 3 or 4 hits

Flammable means you can add an extra 3 or 4 damage every hit after a projectile hits

[sudden dagger]

Yea that makes sense

I’ve just seen everyone and their mother running it

[undone tinsel]

Air B and ground Up Strong, the ones you charge, are there reasons to use them? They have a lot of endlag for not that much reward unless you’re trying to armor break

[orchid bolt]

tried other characters again and definitely miss the joker privilege

[eternal dome]

jivilege, if you will

[undone tinsel]

Taking stocks feels effortless with him lol

[brittle zenith]

Only if you land his 0td

Otherwise, characters are probably living until 120+

[undone tinsel]

Or 90 if you can catch them in an USmash, or even 60 if you can confirm them off the side

Even if they live to 120 all it takes is catching them with that crazy good crowbar lol

[brittle zenith]

His up attacks are really his only reliable kill moves tbh

[nocturne sierra]

Don't listen to zypten all he does is try to downplay joker

[undone tinsel]

Ya like, this character’s “unreliable” options would be another character’s most reliable option

That crowbar is better than some characters

I would know, I also play Velma

[brittle zenith]

I'm downplaying nothing

[nocturne sierra]

Yeah I would rather have joker's crowbar than velmas entire moveset

[brittle zenith]

Joker just relies heavily on upwards attacks

That's why every Joker spams them

[nocturne sierra]

That's exactly what a downplayer would say

[brittle zenith]

I would rather have Jokers grounded down special than Velma's entire moveset this isn't much of a comparison she's ass

That being said, nerf Velma some more it would make me cackle

[nocturne sierra]

Joker's best move is horizontal

[brittle zenith]

In what world

[nocturne sierra]

Side special

[brittle zenith]

I guess if you chain it

Attack decay should be brought back

[undone tinsel]

Agreed lol

[brittle zenith]

I'm sick of spamming your strongest 2 attacks being the meta

[undone tinsel]

Banana Guard

[orchid bolt]

getting free kills in 90-120 range is the most anyone should ask for and we are among the few that get it easily

[orchid bolt]

For specials I agree but for normals they would have to give a lot of characters better combo starters if they want them to do more than one move

u could only jab like twice before decay last time

[brittle zenith]

The few? Morty's grenade decimates you at like 100%, WW, Shaggy, Bugs, Harley, etc. you don't even need to say anything for, Batmans jab I've killed some characters at like 110% with, not sure on Arya but if she still has her crazy ladder game she just slaughters you by default, Black Adam has a ridiculous uair(?) that kills fairly early if you just hit someone up a bit, Stevens uair hits like a truck for some reason now, Garnet can actually just kill you at 0% apparently unless that was fixed and never mentioned, Jason has pretty strong kill power with the downside being he's painfully slow, and Velma... don't get me started on Velma, the worst of the bunch... she needs nerfs bad...

[orchid bolt]

spam is also a weird word to use for crowbar bc if you dodge into it 5 times I'm not choosing a different option to make the game easier for the opponent, im just gonna do it a 6th

[brittle zenith]

It's just that it's the only attack 99% of Jokers use

[orchid bolt]

Mortys grenade takes more skill than 1-2 flicks of the c stick, the unmentioned are top 5s, and the rest is irrelevant bc it's more work than me jabbing you or hitting a raw up smash that also picks up from the side

[brittle zenith]

Batmans jab is more work than jabbing?

Understood 🫡

[orchid bolt]

i said few that get it easily, Arya ladders are not easier than me flicking the stick

i didn't say nobody else had kill confirms

[brittle zenith]

I wanna know how flicking the c-stick actually works for you

I've been flicking it down and attacking up

[orchid bolt]

someone in air, me walk, someone dodge, me flick, someone die

or someone walk, me flick side, me flick up again, start first process because now someone in air

[brittle zenith]

Nah like yours doesn't just input wrong?

What are your deadzones?

[orchid bolt]

so far u mentioned top 5, garnets suicide attack, batman, Morty grenade setups, and Jason (who has the downside of being slow) I refuse to count Arya ladders as an "easy" way to kill, but even if I gave you all the other ones with no debate that's still joker as 9th in a roster of 20+ for easy kills at 90 😭

how is being on the better half of the roster not even slightly privileged

and i do think he gets kills easier than batman, Jason, or Morty and the garnet thing is a meme

[orchid bolt]

nah, and I have default everything

but also nerf banana guard fair

has anyone else had luck with countering Harleys fullscreen slide thing

[wind shell]

literally yes lol. jokers jab is busted

[orchid bolt]

she low profiles cards and even if i aim down there's still a chance to miss and eat a full combo

i can parry it but sometimes their own timing is off and it doesn't reach so i eat a full combo for spot dodging

[wind shell]

walk back and whiff punish when uncharged and jump if you see her charging it

[brittle zenith]

Jokers jab 1 is the only thing worth using

Anything else is just useless

[wind shell]

that is if they just throw it out in the neutral

[orchid bolt]

the only thing that's worked without having to trade is grounded side special but i react slow sometimes abd let it off late

[wind shell]

harleys slide is one of my most hated moves in the game

[orchid bolt]

wym?

[orchid bolt]

this doesn't put me at disadvantage for having to land again?

[brittle zenith]

Jab 3 just kills any combos and half the time jab 2 is knocking enemies too far back to hit them with a kill confirm

Ig rocket launcher

I also might just have a broken controller because my game likes to flip my attacks at random

[orchid bolt]

oh

[brittle zenith]

I attack down? Nope, upwards attack!
I attack right? Nope, I'm swinging left!

[orchid bolt]

jab 3 should never see the light of day and jab 2 gets a guaranteed down b according to tubs but ive only managed that once in a real game

[orchid bolt]

Also the zypten joker PR team snuck us past this first patch with no nerfs so im all for it

[brittle zenith]

I'll keep it going trust me

Also this first patch was ass

It did nothing

Except turn Shaggy more brain dead

[orchid bolt]

fluff and filler

2 points of damage off banana guard doesn't even reduce the amount of times he needs to side b to kill by 1

and I was not a fan of the ww nerf

[brittle zenith]

They literally just brought back a cooldown on lasso

Garbage devs

[wraith cedar]

@formal valley ur joker is actually depressing😭

[reef kindle]

I've seen combos of side special (air) into down special (air) and how do you connect that?

In fact i really struggle with the combo theory of aerial side special in general

[orchid bolt]

it's % based options and DI reads

but really with how slow the game is u can hit side b and react after with ur follow-up

it stuns for too long at low % if you ask me

but if Tony asks me my only criticism is that it doesn't do 30 damage

[reef kindle]

Gotcha, okay thats easy to apply

My secondary is arya lol

I'm assuming Di in= up air
Di away= side special
Di down= down special?

[orchid bolt]

up air balloon or balloon up air

[marsh meteor]

Just triple zero to death'd a Harley

Felt amazing

[marsh meteor]

how do we play the harley matchup

i feel like i can't escape any of her stuff

[sudden dagger]

from what I’ve heard it also hurt lebron a bit to so

dog#### patch balance wise tho

[long saffron]

Why do joker mains just spam that spinning stick attack

So annoying

[brittle zenith]

Because every other attack is useless in neutral

And it's also one of his earliest kill methods

[subtle holly]

Cards are a good neutral tool. Except for the heart one, that one is kinda situational. Side air is decent too.

[brittle zenith]

Sair is ass, the cards are okay but get shut down by Wonder Woman, who is basically the only character you'll meet in queues

[subtle holly]

I've gotten pretty good use out of Sair personally. Also I dont think it's fair to say that a move is useless just cuz one character has an easy counter to it.

[brittle zenith]

I didnt say the cards are useless

They're one of the best tools in his kit I love the cards

The cards are useless against WW though

Making them useless 90% of the time

[subtle holly]

I don't run into WW anywhere near as much as you seem to.

[brittle zenith]

She's actually all I fight

[subtle holly]

In 2s she's somewhat common I guess

[brittle zenith]

I play 1s exclusively

She's the only one there idk how you dont see her this much

Its either WW or that overly downplayed black adam

[subtle holly]

I see all kinds of characters. Honestly, I've probably seen more Banana Guard and Jason and Joker than WW (in 1v1s. 2v2 has quite a few WW players as I mentioned before)

[nocturne sierra]

cards are good in neutral but they're usually very low risk low reward, even if you hit with them you usually arent getting much off it beyond the card damage itself

[clear cairn]

Could it be that banana guard players Switched to joker?

Because I dont encounter the good Jokers anymore only the ones that know only 3 moves (up air, arial side special, Card)

[nocturne sierra]

yeah 95% of jokers are horrible

none of them actually learn the combos or if they do they just have one that they spam over and over again

[clear cairn]

And they still somehow win because his up tilt kills me at 63%

[orchid bolt]

ur DIing into the blast zone

hold opposite whatever direction you're holding and you won't die at 60

[nimble rivet]

that's not a problem at all lol

his up moves are some of the best moves in the entire game

[stray gulch]

Any joker combos yall can suggest? So far ive seen only jab1 dair down b, up air

Havent been able.to do it since whenever i get jab1 off monkey brain turns on and spams jab

-signed, humble lebron patch 1.1 refugee

[nocturne sierra]

tbh the nerf wasnt that bad for lebron

[nocturne sierra]

jab 1 charged down tilt air side special then read di to either side special again or up special

also jab 1 jab 2, dodge jump down air, down special x2 up air

those are good combos to start with from jab

[stray gulch]

It removed the only thing that kept him sane post beta

It was giga cheese ye but everything else abt him was dumpstered prior

[nocturne sierra]

it didnt

he lost dunk but he got a ton of buffs outside that and still has combos

[sullen geode]

https://medal.tv/games/multiversus/clips/i2eKEp4oKEPeymNct/d1337oYH1eMA?invite=cr-MSw4a3MsNjk2NDE4OSw

[nocturne sierra]

he's jsut a different character now

[sullen geode]

can any of you tell me if there is anything i can do while stuck in that loop?

i know i couldve just stopped approaching and bla bla bla but thats not the point

is the loop 100% true or can i do something about it

DI did not seem to affect it

[stray gulch]

He also lost balless spike 😔 though that might have been in the beta at this point

[nocturne sierra]

its true until he runs out of dodge meter

[sullen geode]

but he was out of dodge meter

and he could still do it

[nocturne sierra]

where in the clip was that

[sullen geode]

actually no nvm ur right he never was

but then im confused

dodge canceling should take way more dodge meter then if he can do it 3 times in a row without running out of stamina

thats ridiculous

[nocturne sierra]

i dont think that loop is even that good against jason unless it lets you confirm into a kill you wouldn't otherwise because jason is just so good at taking advantage of burnout

[brittle zenith]

Nah not when he's competing with any of BGs attacks, WWs sair, or Shaggy's specials

[nocturne sierra]

so much risk for just a little extra damage against a character you should be able to kill without burning out if you actually know your combos

but jokers usually don't know his combos very well

even good ones

[nimble rivet]

he's still up there lol

[sullen geode]

not that good? he kill confirmed me at 90 with that

of course its good

[nimble rivet]

Jason is dog against characters with loops cause he's just so big

[nocturne sierra]

joker killing jason at 90 is not crazy

[nimble rivet]

hard to DI out

[nimble rivet]

his kill potential should get nerfed hard

like bg he just has too much knockback for no reason

[brittle zenith]

Jason is just bad in general

[nimble rivet]

yeah he needs buffs

[nocturne sierra]

joker kill confirms jason at like 30 with actual combos

[nimble rivet]

that is exactly what I mean

idk man top tiers are so insane the game is less fun

[brittle zenith]

Does Joker even have combos other than jab x2 > dair > down b > up b > uair?

[nocturne sierra]

yes

he has lots

especially with charged down tilt

airwalker also enables lots of crazy stuff with his combo game

[nimble rivet]

ppl asked what the devs were playing 💀

devs actually responded ww and gizmo

we are never seeing nerfs

[nocturne sierra]

yeah after what nakat said WW gonna be broken forever

[brittle zenith]

NAKAT, community manager for PlayerFirstGames, has said WW has serious whiff lag and should not be nerfed

This game is actually done for

It's never gonna be balanced

[nimble rivet]

one of the devs that said they main WW lmao

[brittle zenith]

It's never gonna have affordable monetization

It's just done for

The beta was better

[nimble rivet]

that saddens me

I do miss beta

[nocturne sierra]

nakat thinks ww is balanced because he can punish mashers on ladder with jason

[brittle zenith]

Chat review bomb the game with negative reviews to scare Warner Bros. into letting PFG stop making everything p2p

[nimble rivet]

but anyone can beat scrubs lol

[brittle zenith]

Trash balancing ig we can handle Smash isn't balanced at all either

[nocturne sierra]

i wanna see nakat's jason vs key1dr and see what he thinks then

[nimble rivet]

i don't give a damn about smash lol

[brittle zenith]

I would smoke NAKAT with WW and I'm not even able to be considered good at the game, not even decent at best

[nimble rivet]

couldnt care less about how its balanced

[nocturne sierra]

i do think WW is a healthier top tier than like 90% of characters in this game would be though

[brittle zenith]

She is infinitely stronger than all the other top tiers rn

Except IG before he got assassinated by the CIA

[nocturne sierra]

not really

i think harley is probably better even

[brittle zenith]

They're more toxic for sure but I wouldn't say the characters better

[nocturne sierra]

i would

[sullen geode]

Hello recently i bought the joker and i wanna know which are his best perks and what kind of playstyle should i go around him

[brittle zenith]

Play style is up to you, adapt to how YOU like to play
Best perks are the wild card perk and the rest are personal preference but I like to run flammable, last stand, and pugilist

Last stand could also be traded for airwalker or the one that makes dash attacks break armor

And flammable could be swapped for snowball

[wind shell]

playing cards in the neutral. fish with side air special/jabs into a combo. always try and launch them up. up air/recovery to catch dodges

hes very straightforward

[brittle zenith]

Why do other Jokers get earlier kills than me with the exact same attacks? It makes no sense do I have to stop all input before I DI to actually DI or something?

[nocturne sierra]

You don't DI as the attacker

The one getting hit has control over DI

[sullen geode]

I will, finally i have a purpose for my perk currency ajsjsjsj

[sullen geode]

All right thank u all 😄

[brittle zenith]

Obviously I know that dawg

[nocturne sierra]

Wtf are you saying then

[brittle zenith]

But if the same attack in the same place is killing me earlier than it's killing them on the same character, I'm clearly doing something wrong

My DI isn't saving me at all do I have to stop inputting stuff before DI will work?

[nocturne sierra]

Oh you meant in a joker ditto I thought you meant from watching other jokers

[brittle zenith]

Yeah

[nocturne sierra]

Don't think so

If a move hits you vertically do you hold down or hold out horizontally

[brittle zenith]

Yeah I'm DIing towards the stage and it's just not helping in the slightest I still die way earlier

[nocturne sierra]

I think if a move is gonna send you vertical you wanna DI horizontal

To make it send you more towards the corner rather than straight up

At least that's the way DI works in smash vertical DI isn't as effective as horizontal

And it feels the same here but I could be wrong

[orchid bolt]

Jason top tier would be cool

Or bat goat

[nocturne sierra]

True

[nocturne sierra]

No that would be the worst thing ever

[orchid bolt]

But Batman's cool

[nocturne sierra]

I've suffered enough being an Arya main in beta having to fight 20 million batman players

Such an annoying character to play against

Especially when it's your worst matchup

[brittle zenith]

Batman was vile as a top tier

He deserves his nerfs

[nocturne sierra]

See this guy knows

[brittle zenith]

I experienced it first hand it was downright disgusting

Didn't help that he also had a good matchup against my main

[orchid bolt]

beta Arya players do not get to complain 😭

[mellow thicket]

Jokers really do be devolving

I only see 3 moves out of jokers now

[mellow thicket]

Seems the new one is just spam the Hella fast up air, Sair, and up special

[orchid bolt]

bro crawls here every time he loses to joker 😭

do u wanna grind the mu or something

[brittle zenith]

Because that's all he has

He relies heavily on his side special and cards in neutral

His up attacks are his only efficient kill moves

[mellow thicket]

Which isn't very often

[brittle zenith]

His dair spike is disgusting if you can land it though

[mellow thicket]

But the spamming be killing me

Just tryna test characters I haven't played before and get spammed on

[orchid bolt]

do u wanna just cry and call it spam or get advice on the mu

[mellow thicket]

😂

When they just use 3 moves repeatedly it's called spam

Unless you think it's called skill

[orchid bolt]

i see

[mellow thicket]

Unless you think shaggy side b and bg side b spam is also skill

[orchid bolt]

have a nice day

[mellow thicket]

😂😂

[clear cairn]

I know that I played smash it still kills me but maybe its because my character is light

[brittle zenith]

What character?

[clear cairn]

Harley

[brittle zenith]

Yeah she's not dying to utilt at 60

Not unless its fully charged

But even then idk

[brittle zenith]

Yeah fully charged utilt at 60% isn't killing her, even on top of the stereos on Cromulons

[clear cairn]

Yeah ofc I was like 30% in the air

[orchid bolt]

???

what that mean

[clear cairn]

In the end its my fault anyway if I get Hit from it anyway

[orchid bolt]

does nakat happen to play ww

[orchid bolt]

the corporate downplay is gonna be the downfall of the game

[clear cairn]

From the stages ground to the death zone

[orchid bolt]

ur sentences confuse me more and more

does that mean like

[clear cairn]

Idk how to explain😅

[orchid bolt]

around a third from the floor?

[clear cairn]

Yes exactly

[orchid bolt]

if that means what i think it means it still wouldnt kill

[clear cairn]

Does joker has a 0 to death you cant doge maybe?

After the first Hit

[brittle zenith]

Wouldn't doubt it

But other devs do as well so yk

[clear cairn]

Ww is nakats main since the beta

[brittle zenith]

Yeah that makes sense

his argument that she shouldn't be nerfed is she can be whiff punished

[mellow thicket]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[brittle zenith]

I really hope the devs actually release a significant balance patch

[mellow thicket]

Probably in a month or two

[clear cairn]

I hope nakat doesnt have the right to say anything to changes anymore

[brittle zenith]

Dair > Down b > Up b > Uair isn't a 0td on most characters but it is true and it does kill decently early

[clear cairn]

Well idk how he killed me at 63% with a up air then

[brittle zenith]

Uair or utilt which one is it

Could you give me an idea as to how high you were? Like go into the lab, select the map you died on, and jump up to the general area you were at?

[clear cairn]

I dont remeber exactly I kinda forget unnecessary stuff after going to sleep

[brittle zenith]

Well unless you were near the blast zone, uair or utilt wasn't killing you

In fact, you'd need to be next to the blast zone for uair to kill

[clear cairn]

I think I was at the hight harley is after joker hitted 2 air side specials

[orchid bolt]

well then you got combo'd to death

if they chained 2 side specials into an up air that's fair game

[orchid bolt]

Painful

Nakat if you see this stop the cap

[clear cairn]

But can you get out of that because I couldnt doge and idk if it was server issue or if you cant doge out of that

[clear cairn]

Fr the moment nakat got into the dev the the game got worse

[gloomy orbit]

how do i get better at playing joker chat?

[brittle zenith]

I believe side b into uair is true and so is side b into side b so I don't think you could

You could've maybe DId far enough that he wouldn't hit you with uair but your damage was low so idk

[brittle zenith]

Learn his combos, neutral, and MUs

I can 1v1 you and see if there's anything you're doing wrong which you could improve on

[gloomy orbit]

yeh i'm down to 1v1

[clear cairn]

Well 2 side b into u air is kinda broken if it kills at low % and is true

[gloomy orbit]

jokerx6

[brittle zenith]

Sent a friend request

[gloomy orbit]

igh bet gimme 2 secs

[gloomy orbit]

inv me to a custom whenever ur ready

damn

ggs

ur goated

damn

ggs

[brittle zenith]

Honestly I think it's just working on combo game

Maybe learn your spacing a bit better as well

You were doing good on it at the end there

[gloomy orbit]

stupid question but can u explain what spacing is?

[gloomy orbit]

u got any clips of combos i should learn?

[brittle zenith]

Keeping a certain distance between you and your opponent

You wanna bait out a whiff and then punish it

[gloomy orbit]

ohhh i see

[brittle zenith]

Unfortunately not but jab > jab > dodge > jab > jab > utilt is a combo that works very well, especially for killing at higher % like 100-120 (usually I just use 1 jab if I wanna use utilt to not hit them too far for the utilt to hit though)
You can also use jab > jab > dodge > jab > jab > side b near edges to kill people at around 100-120 as well
Jab > Jab > dodge > jab > jab > dair > air down b > up b > uair is a bit of a longer combo which will deal more damage and I believe should actually be a 0td on some characters if you read the DI from down b

If they're not high enough for up b or too far away after down b, you can also use side b into uair

If you're not already doing it, also keep track of your cards
Knowing what you're gonna throw can help you plan a bit ahead

A tip for fighting Bugs since he's a menace rn, air neutral b one shots his safe and if you use it fully charged it should also be able to break the safe mid flight before it even hits you

[gloomy orbit]

ty, def will try all of these out

ty for the tips bro

[brittle zenith]

Np

[gloomy orbit]

yo bro i can't to up tilt for some reason after i do the jab

[brittle zenith]

Side attack two times, there's input buffer so you press attack while holding side 2 times and only 2 times, then you press attack while holding up once (hold the attack button for a brief moment to make utilt slightly stronger)

You can also just side attack once and then up tilt to guarantee it hits

If you side attack twice you might hit them too far and whiff

[gloomy orbit]

igh ty

btw whats a dair again

[brittle zenith]

Down air

[gloomy orbit]

oh so the pogo stick

[brittle zenith]

Yes

[shadow helm]

thats a controller thing

set a small deadzone on the controller

[zenith nexus]

Yo down air into down special into up air goes crazy

With a balloon or crobar if necessary at the end

[brittle zenith]

Dair > down b > up b > uair > uair is his 0td ofc its crazy

Jab x2 > dodge > jab x2 > dair > down b > up b > uair > uair (if needed) should be mostly true until that final uair which will also be a 0td

[sullen geode]

Bro i just made an spam rpg attack

Lmao feels nasty

XD

[mellow thicket]

There's a joker loop now?😭

Someone just got me with first two hits of jab combo into repeat 5 times into up air into balloon

Couldn't dodge at all

Someone else go test it out

[brittle zenith]

Basically everyone can loop like that

Without attack decay, anyone with a 3 hit jab can jab > jab > dodge > repeat

He couldve then hit you with a dair into down b into up b into uair and killed you guaranteed

Its vile

Despicable

PLEASE for the love of GOD PFG bring back attack decay

[mellow thicket]

Yeah I got hit by a stripe then a ww using that kind of loop

They did half jab combo dash into left side half jab dash into right side repeat

Attack decay would fix so much stuff in this game

Wouldn't see loops or spamming nearly as much

[brittle zenith]

Spamming wouldnt go

Loops would though which is huge

[mellow thicket]

Yeah but at least with spamming your attack would deal barely any damage eventually

[brittle zenith]

On that jab loop I think it could be done up to 7 times or something

Ridiculous

[mellow thicket]

💀

[brittle zenith]

After going through the characters, the only people that might not be able to loop jab like this are ig and jason because theyre slow

[maiden kindle]

can they not dodge the dair

[brittle zenith]

Jab > jab > dair is true

[nocturne sierra]

Jason can loop jab 1

And idk what you're on about thinking IG can't when he literally got removed because he had like 5 infinites and most of them used jab

[brittle zenith]

Wasnt he removed because of his grab taunt cancel?

[mellow thicket]

Just tried the loop on banana guard and it works😭

[brittle zenith]

Pretty sure thats what PFG said

[mellow thicket]

Was able to do half jab combo dash 6 times in a row

😭😭

[brittle zenith]

Yeah we need attack decay

[nocturne sierra]

That's just one of the infinites he was removed for

He had a bunch with jab too

[brittle zenith]

Joker could probably loop jab 3 or 4 times to build damage, then use dair down b up b uair and kill you every time

What do you guys think about Joker having such a strong dair spike? Justified for its weakness being a thin hitbox or too powerful?

[nocturne sierra]

His dair is fine

There are way better dairs in the game than his

[brittle zenith]

I mean his dair spike hits like a truck

I havent actually seen stronger dairs yet

I've also been essentially one tricking Joker and his uair is safe from most dairs anyways so ig I wouldnt be getting spiked much either

[wraith cedar]

Joker shouldn’t be able to trade with every attack it’s stupid

[brittle zenith]

Anyone can trade with every attack wdym

[oblique shuttle]

what yall joker mains think bout him

do u consider him top tier

[brittle zenith]

I wouldn't put him as top tier but he's definitely up there in high A tier, edge of being top tier

If the current top tiers werent so strong I'd definitely put him in S but comparatively he's not as broken

[mellow thicket]

so after playing over 300 games now in 1s and two's this is my updated character tier list for 1s (all in my opinion based on what ive seen)
S+: Wonder Women
S: Black Adam, Gizmo, Bugs, Joker, Harley, Steven, Banana Guard
A: Batman, Shaggy, Stripe, Superman, Tom and Jerry, Arya, Finn,
B: Morty, Rick, Marvin, Iron Giant reworked
C: Jason, Garnet, LeBron, Reindog (less then 10 games),
D: Velma, Taz(0 Games)
This is mostly Ordered also

[brittle zenith]

I'd put Batman below Morty and BA above WW

[oblique shuttle]

eh

[sudden dagger]

Taz n-air does 29 so he’s definitely not in the same tier at Velma at least

[oblique shuttle]

bats below morty

[naive cipher]

Where Lebron?

[oblique shuttle]

💀

[mellow thicket]

It's because I've seen 0

[brittle zenith]

Batman is ass now lmao

[mellow thicket]

Literally 300 games and have played 0 Taz

[brittle zenith]

He's no where near what he used to be

[oblique shuttle]

hes not lol

[jagged spindle]

tom.and jerry is Hella good

[brittle zenith]

And Morty is a menace

[jagged spindle]

he had a loop to 100 percent

[brittle zenith]

They play like nerds though

[naive cipher]

Where Lebron at?

[mellow thicket]

Oh woops I thought I had him in

[jagged spindle]

they're def high tier they just loop you or zone u

[mellow thicket]

Nah I've barely ever lost to T&J

And they have barely any kill confirms or combos

[naive cipher]

I think after the nerfs, Lebron is like b or c

He was pretty cracked tho for a bit

[mellow thicket]

I have him in C

[jagged spindle]

????? they have a guarantee loop

that is a potential infinite if ubdont di out the reverse jab

[mellow thicket]

Yeah a ton of characters have a jab loop

[jagged spindle]

they also have kill confirms from up air and rockets

[mellow thicket]

The pan does hardly any damage now

Rocket is pretty much it

Beta pan was wayyy better

[jagged spindle]

up air??

[mellow thicket]

Yeah

[jagged spindle]

it still kills relatively early

ao does fishing rod

[mellow thicket]

Not that I've ever seen

[brittle zenith]

Ignore this fellow he thinks the Joker card can be thrown consistently

[mellow thicket]

I can count on my hands how many times I've died to t&j up air

[oblique shuttle]

for 1s?

hes bottom 5

S+ Joker, WW, Gizmo, Buggs, Harley
S Steven, Black adam, Bats,Banana, Shaggy, Finn, Arya, TnJ, Supes
A garnet, lebronbron, rick, stripe, reindog marvin
B jason morty taz jake
ass: velma

[mellow thicket]

What?😭

[oblique shuttle]

this is for 1s btw

[mellow thicket]

Isn't it like a 2% or something

[brittle zenith]

There's no way its THAT low

[oblique shuttle]

its not that low

its like 10% at least

[brittle zenith]

I've seen that thing thrown first throw by me and another Joker and then I threw it a second time rifht after

[jagged spindle]

not what I said I said that he could.manipulatr ur card options off of crouch

[oblique shuttle]

ye

[jagged spindle]

which he never k ew about

and he said hes a joker main

when hebdoesnt know his kit

[brittle zenith]

Thats not what you said lmaooooo

[oblique shuttle]

what yall think

[jagged spindle]

😭

[brittle zenith]

Quit changing your words

[jagged spindle]

I did bozo

learn to read

[brittle zenith]

You said the explosion card kills at 100 and can be chosen by crouching (which is wrong, but there is an explosive card that can be chosen it just never kills at 100)

[brittle zenith]

(edited)

[jagged spindle]

I literally told u u csn manipulate ehwt card unhave equipped when crouching cuz jt shuffes when u crouch allowing u to change ur moved

[brittle zenith]

I knew that

That was one of the first things I figured out after realizing his crouch animation looks so cool

[jagged spindle]

apparently u didnt

[brittle zenith]

The best you could do rn is try and say you meant the diamond card can be chosen at will but even then...

[jagged spindle]

want me to.get the screenshots bud???

[brittle zenith]

You tried to say it kills at 100%

[jagged spindle]

it does kill at 100???

are u stupid

[brittle zenith]

The diamond card, which is his only consistent explosive card, does not kill at 100 unfortunately

[jagged spindle]

I was literally talking about card mainpuations

????

[brittle zenith]

The Joker explosive, an uncontrollable random card, does kill at 100

[jagged spindle]

ah yes me talking about how.hero menu csn manipulate his spells = me tlaking about what ever your daying

p
please learn how to read and learn ur charecter before talking 🙂

thanks bb

[brittle zenith]

Me when I try really hard to troll by spouting misinformation

Unfathomably based, in all honesty

[jagged spindle]

you when u don't know to read

[brittle zenith]

If the diamond card kills you at 100% you're either being hit with the most insane setups and snipes known to man or you're just confused

[jagged spindle]

nope died at 100.mid.stage ad black adam.whos.a heavy with proper di (di left when I was getting sent right)

sounds like skill issue cuz u keep down playing ue top tier brsindead charecter

maybe get better

you'll get there soon kiddo

maybe one day you'll be top 1000

[brittle zenith]

Your typing is so incoherent dawg 😭🙏

[jagged spindle]

I mean 10000

[mellow thicket]

(Is playing Black Adam)

[brittle zenith]

💀

[mellow thicket]

(who also has shield to block cards)

[jagged spindle]

ia playing joker

[brittle zenith]

BA mains are the biggest downplayers on earth

[mellow thicket]

BA literally negates all projectiles in a single move lol

[jagged spindle]

isn't unlimited it has a hp.pool

[mellow thicket]

yeah a card cant break it...

[jagged spindle]

jokers landing up air on the floor vis short hop.and killing at 100

[mellow thicket]

and its on a timer

playing ba and hating on a joker is some cope

BA is better then Joker first of all

[jagged spindle]

also his up air and ultilt confirming off of jab and killing early percents

[brittle zenith]

Maybe if you're in the center of the screen and going straight up it might kill but even then idk
The diamond card doesn't hit very hard ima be honest, it can kill but its not gonna be early
The Joker card, however, is a monstrosity which will kill you from anywhere on the map at 100%

[jagged spindle]

every top player put ba low or high tier

[mellow thicket]

yeah he is high tier easily

[jagged spindle]

sounds like a you don't know the mu issue

and every top player put joker top tier

[mellow thicket]

sounds like you cant use shield to block a projectile?

[brittle zenith]

Unfathomable cope

Its not our fault you suck at the game bud

[jagged spindle]

I'm sonbad I'm top 7% in Einstein snd top 13% in win rate

[brittle zenith]

Black Adam shouldn't be dying at 100% to a diamond card thats the least likely card to get the Joker a kill tbh

[jagged spindle]

u realize.the shield.has a cd and u csm break it

[brittle zenith]

Bro thinks hes him 😭

[jagged spindle]

sounds like your coping that ur top tier is better then ba by a long shot

[brittle zenith]

I wish

[jagged spindle]

realize a top 8 player put ba in bottom tier

WAAAA

[faint shore]

Tier list in beginning always changing. I wouldnt go by their list until atleast like a month