Tom And Jerry

[subtle lotus]

Like the worst character right now

Hes totally useless

With shielding

And pfg won't do anything bc everyone hates this character

[raven onyx]

I only pushed TnJ to plat now their unplayable

[trim cave]

He can still kill if it werent for the shield mechanic that we are testing

[raven onyx]

And ive seen people still put them IN FREAKING S TIER

[subtle lotus]

I keep playing him

I was just zoning

[subtle lotus]

Yeah

Ik how it feels

This community its the worst of all platform figthers

Players are worst than usual bc this game has a lot of new players

Also thinking that they are good

Bc they are on masters

Its lit super easy to reach masters with an top tier

The game its unbalanced

And masters and grandmasters its just grinding a lot

Bc the matchmaking sucks

And using top tiers

[trim cave]

I wouldnt put tnj but assuming as its by skill, around a or b tier if u wre very professional and know how to drive ur opponents down to the ground with some tactical bullet hell or other wise

[raven onyx]

And the top tiers got a slap on the wrist

[subtle lotus]

Nah

They got an slap from top tier to s tier

[trim cave]

S tier isnt something to be earned unless its very good

And has no counters

[subtle lotus]

They are still really good

Like being top tier to s tier

Its really insane

This character was b tier to f tier

Thx to all this mf's complaining on this chat

To kill the character

[trim cave]

Tnj goes in a/b tier cuz of their cunning moveset to avoid and damage in rather unique ways that def can be used to confuse or else

[raven onyx]

Its saddening aswell bc they play those strong characters

[subtle lotus]

They are f tier

They have the worst disadvantage in the game

The 2nd lightest weight

So allows you to kill super early

And lit no options or anything with shields being added

They didn't balanced him

[trim cave]

Use brain cells

[subtle lotus]

I think in better than you

I dont use loops

I was an mix up and 50/50 enjoyer

But his just useless

Theres anything with the character adding shielding

You lit said the character was unplayable and useless

[trim cave]

Who the hell said I use loops, i use my own ways to fight and that included using the paddle boat to stall time for jerry

[subtle lotus]

And while you were complaining i reached masters 1

Making an new mix up

[trim cave]

Or use cork as a self defense and bait to make others target me

Or jerry regardless

[subtle lotus]

They are an passive character

[subtle lotus]

That's why you didnt pass from plat

You cant just spam jerry and go pick it up

You get lit insta punish if he dodge

Your at disadvantage for throwing jerry

If he decides to rush

Also if you dont defend jerry

[keen swan]

I don’t really see a full stage consistent kill move that confirms on most the cast at around 100 being bad simply because you have to commit to it

[subtle lotus]

All characters have an special way to one shot him

[subtle lotus]

Bro

Fishing rod is not good

While he's using the rod

You can just rush down

He has whiff frames

[trim cave]

Ok no first of all when i shoot jerry i instantly use the racket move or something else, if i noticed that he dodges ill try other ways

[subtle lotus]

Rod is not good lit lets you into an full punish

[keen swan]

If your opponent is going for Jerry, which is usually their goal, fishing rod both kills them and brings Jerry back

[subtle lotus]

Bro you can just rush tom

[trim cave]

Its a easy shaggy/banana guard punisher if u jump>use rod> aim down

[subtle lotus]

His vulnerable

[keen swan]

It’s also good to get people edge guarding at ledge, and if timed right it has a hitbox in the air

[subtle lotus]

Its just skill issue

[keen swan]

It’s not bad simply because you have to commit to the move

It just takes a lot of thinking

[subtle lotus]

The move its bad

At high gameplay

I play at masters 1

Theres no way to use it

Atleast his on the air

On edge guard

Atleast i could try to do it

[trim cave]

Regular ground cant do much

[subtle lotus]

But if you perform fishing rod on the floor

Its lit an free punish

Both aren't good

But grounded version

Has a lot of whiff frames

[trim cave]

The only time that works is if the opponent is Arial spamming

[subtle lotus]

Yes

But paddle it's more optimal

[keen swan]

Maybe you haven’t found a good use of it yet, but I definitely wouldn’t say it’s bad just because it’s difficult to pull off in the highest level of ranked

I’m not saying it’s not flawed, but I’m also saying it’s likely not as useless as you think

[trim cave]

Its situational

[subtle lotus]

Yes

But really situational

[trim cave]

Which is why u either use rocket mouse to arc it or do ariel side attacks to get closer

[subtle lotus]

You won't be using that move ever bc there's better options

And less punishable

[eager terrace]

who is the best tom and jerry

[keen swan]

Personally I also don’t think balancing should be judged solely on the highest level of ranked gameplay

Don’t say Hardcorefox

That’s just paddle spam

[raven onyx]

FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT

[trim cave]

Not me, im good but not on a profesional level that leaves me with a college degree on tnj

Paddle is either a combo or a staller

[keen swan]

I actually think you shouldn’t be able to attack out of shield unless you’re directly hit

[subtle lotus]

Yes

[keen swan]

Because then the meta will just be hold shield until you can dodge jab

[subtle lotus]

Paddle and all T&J kit its useless now

[keen swan]

Which is just dodge jab with an extra step

[subtle lotus]

Also we have no combos

So there's no compensations if we punish

[keen swan]

I feel like it would be fine if the projectiles and some of his other kill moves were tweaked a bit better

[trim cave]

This is tnj intellegent life speaking to one another

[keen swan]

But I wouldn’t say the whole 50/50 thing will be received all too well in the community

This character despite not being insanely op is still not very fun to fight

[trim cave]

Im not joking those who are good know how to bend the cons to work smarter

[subtle lotus]

If they dont add the 50/50 back

Atleast add paddle into jump

And add paddle repetitive lockout

Like they did to arya

Also they didn't nerfed any top tier

Useless balancing

[keen swan]

Eh

Idk about the paddle into jump

Maybe if it was a shorter frame input?

I just feel like it’s gonna lead to more complaints

[subtle lotus]

No

[keen swan]

Which would just lead to tnj being nerfed more

[subtle lotus]

Just add paddle repetitive lockout

That was the main complain

Paddle jerry shot

Into itself

Leaving you on an 50/50 situation

[keen swan]

Maybe like paddle jump down air side air

[subtle lotus]

Its like agent smith jab up tilt into n special

[keen swan]

Yeah that move has a crazy hitbox still

At least I think it doesnt

Doez*

[cyan whale]

Increase the hitstun of the final hit and lower the knockback so that T&J can consistently get an aerial after paddle

[keen swan]

Haven’t fought a smith since before his hitbox tweak

Yeah that’s fair I’d say

[cyan whale]

Paddle to uair would be a consistent kill confirm that way

[keen swan]

Essentially just Finn up tilt into sair nair or u-air

[cyan whale]

Not even

[keen swan]

?

[cyan whale]

The Finn players I’ve run into just do jab jab IAD nair sair 1,2

[keen swan]

I’m not talking about IAD

[cyan whale]

And that just kills at ledge

[keen swan]

You can do up tilt into any Finn aerial except dair

It’s just not the most optimal

But on a low top blast zone stage it’s probably more useful

[cyan whale]

Also, why does Finn dtilt combo into utilt at lower percents?

[keen swan]

Lock on side special kills pretty well near top blast zone

[keen swan]

Idk

[cyan whale]

Who thought that was a good change

[keen swan]

Wait what down tilt?

[cyan whale]

Yeah

[keen swan]

Like jab jab down tilt up tilt?

[subtle lotus]

We just need

[cyan whale]

Yes

[subtle lotus]

To add paddle into jump window back

Will cover a lot of di's

[keen swan]

Do they turn around when they do the up tilt?

[subtle lotus]

And will let into kill confirms

[cyan whale]

No

[keen swan]

I think that’s most people’s problem

[subtle lotus]

Its used to read di

They do

[keen swan]

With tnj

[subtle lotus]

No

Ain't that

[keen swan]

Yeah that was added a while back

[cyan whale]

It’s literally just jab jab dtilt utilt at low percents with Finn

[subtle lotus]

Was the 50/50 abuse read

[cyan whale]

Seems to work on lighter characters

[keen swan]

Jab jab IAD sair turn around up tilt was true at some point

[subtle lotus]

And paddle into jerry shot over and over

[subtle lotus]

Is not true

[keen swan]

For Finn

It used to be during one patch

[cyan whale]

Not T&J

[subtle lotus]

Oh ok

[keen swan]

I think that was true at the start of season 3

Why in the world would tnj down tilt combo into anything

[cyan whale]

Apparently as of this most recent patch, Shaggy super sandwich bugs normal sandwich and gives it the same damage and knockback but with the speed and size of normal sandwich

[keen swan]

Oh naw

[cyan whale]

So I’m not surprised that certain characters will randomly get or lose combos without it being stated in the patch notes

[keen swan]

Not on shaggy man

[cyan whale]

Yeah Shaggy is easily top 1 with this bug

[keen swan]

That’s so dumb

Shaggy needs heavy tweaks

[cyan whale]

I was wondering why so many Shaggy’s were just spamming sandwich when ordinarily it’s a pretty mid at best projectile

[keen swan]

Shaggy Banana Guard and Wonder Woman

Either less damage/knockback or slower

[cyan whale]

Dude Banana Guard is unironically a top tier now

[keen swan]

Legit

It’s like season 2 Finn

But the combo is even faster

[cyan whale]

Like those small frame data buffs improved his combo game so much and he just naturally kills at like 80 with sair

And now he’s one of the fastest characters in the game

[keen swan]

Exactly

[cyan whale]

His sair kills almost as early as Nubia’s with 2-3x as fast frame data

[keen swan]

I feel like start of season 3 Finn was in a pretty good spot

[cyan whale]

Everyone just kills too early in this game

[keen swan]

Also I’m pretty certain current backpack is unironically better than old

[cyan whale]

Oh definitely

[keen swan]

If you clash with someone and they’re high damage they just pop

It’s so goofy

Like that’s high five’s role besides a DI/dodge read kill confirm off combos

[cyan whale]

Especially with a ton of coins and the backpack perk

It’s just a big “you die now” hitbox that lingers

[keen swan]

Only downside is it’s slower

That’s about it

[cyan whale]

He’s got that prepatch IG syndrome going on now

[keen swan]

I feel like reverting it and making it do less damage would be better

Like just make the spin do less before the final hit

I already have a way better concept in mind

[cyan whale]

They should just nerf his air speed and air acceleration

[keen swan]

Just make it so with the backpack strength perk equipped, Finn naturally loses coins

[cyan whale]

Let Finn go fast on the ground and be slower in the air

[keen swan]

Like there’s a hole in his backpack or whatever that slowly just drops coins

[keen swan]

Fair

[cyan whale]

That way, he won’t be able to carry people into the blast zone as easily

[keen swan]

If he still has good combo game I wouldn’t care

Since aerial side special locks onto opponents anyways

[cyan whale]

But he’d always have the ground speed to get in on his opponents

[keen swan]

Gives his gameplay more depth

Yeah making him faster just felt weird

No clue why they did that

[cyan whale]

I get why

[keen swan]

It actually makes me drop true combos sometimes

[cyan whale]

They want Finn to be the anti zoner character

[keen swan]

Yeah

[cyan whale]

So he’s fast with side special being a really good projectile counter

[keen swan]

I think the grounded side special change works

But making him simply faster is odd

Especially when the speed perk exists

That’s actually a problem I have with current MVS

Relating to perks

[cyan whale]

But like he also has more range and a better combo game than the majority of the cast

So he’s just better

[keen swan]

We should have perk combinations that let you use a character for a specific playstyle or sub playstyle

Instead of just do this one strategy and do it better than the opponents strategy and you win

[cyan whale]

I don’t like that the most optimal perks are all damage perks because it’s so easy to kill early

[keen swan]

Exactly

[cyan whale]

Flammable, last stand, pugilist

It’s been meta for too long

[keen swan]

They should be benefiting for characters that do lower damage or don’t have as many kill confirms

Bring back unique perks

[cyan whale]

Or snowball, last stand, pugilist for melee characters

[keen swan]

Like the Powerpuff girls arobattack perk

Was originally gonna be a general perk

For any character I’m pretty sure

[cyan whale]

That would be so broken on some characters

[keen swan]

Or there was a leaked perk that would drop a safe off the ledge

[keen swan]

They could probably limit it by making them stay in place or something

Though that means it’s useless on characters like Velma or Tom and Jerry

[cyan whale]

Even so, I don’t need to die even earlier to Batman by him ending a combo with dash attack off stage

Honestly, the bigger issue with perks is that the other perks are all just blatantly inferior to the damage perks

Like why would I want to apply shocked after running on the ground for 4 full seconds when I can instead just give myself a 10% damage and knockback buff to all of my melee attacks

Like even on T&J who uses a lot of projectiles, pugilist is just objectively better than every other perk 3

[oak lark]

This chat right here people is for the furrys

[raven onyx]

How does it make furries😐

Us

[oak lark]

Just does cope

[raven onyx]

... so its illegal to play out favourite childhood characters

Cant do anything from this community

[oak lark]

Not illegal💀

Don’t get me wrong I long Tom and Jerry

Watched all the episodes movies with my dad growing up

Just the way you all play the character

Mad gay

[raven onyx]

Its yalls fault cant beat projectiles and a paddle

[cerulean cliff]

Lil bro stuck in the 2000s talking that weak trash

[odd marsh]

Just get better☹️☹️☹️

[oak lark]

Did I say I loose💀

[oak lark]

…

I just said yall play mad gay

[sharp plaza]

A christian shouldn't be saying that kind of things btw

[lost violet]

I’ve never seen such heavy projection in my life. Now stop peaking your head out the closet and come out

[oak lark]

Not Christian

[sharp plaza]

It doesn't matter, it's not good to judge people, still a sin

[dusty nova]

Yeah

[dusty nova]

Bro can't handle the d teir tnj gamplay

[oak lark]

Lmaooo bro called tnj d tier 😭😭

[oak lark]

No one judging 😭

[odd marsh]

You still could’ve kept your opinion at the start 👻

[subtle lotus]

Your really bad if you thing his not d tier

You got outplayed

[odd marsh]

Who do you main?

[subtle lotus]

Dont even try talking to him

He got to be bad to thing T&J its still good

His not atleast diamond

[trim cave]

Even teirs that are really bad can still come out very good if u know how to utilize the kit given and make work arounds of others playstyles (excluding f tiers becuase even if u did theres gonna be a spammy move that cant have a work around)

I do hope that if they do have shields theres gotta be a work around for mages as well since they are at a huge disadvantage like maybe 🛡 breaker perks that affect the third slot

U sacrifice damage for shield breaking or something similar with that like taking the thorns perk and make it so the person cant shield for a bit

Like how it usually works with armor

[hollow flax]

I think if projectiles could apply actually shield pressure by dealing an actual noticeable amount of shield dmg then mages can do pretty good I’d imagine

[trim cave]

Welp tnj mains the shield may happen, lets go down and salute our cat and mouse for giving us the experience we could never had

🫡

[cyan whale]

The fact that heavy projectiles only deal like 1 dodge worth of shield damage is insane

On top of every move except armor breakers being massively negative on shield means that shield camping is going to be a massive issue in the game’s current state of shields

[trim zealot]

Why does it look like shields may happen? Was there a new announcement?

[cyan whale]

I feel like it’s kinda obvious that the reason this is in testing is so they can see how to improve it before making it official

Like the devs aren’t gonna put all this work into shields for nothing, so I’m pretty sure they’re gonna come one way or another

[trim zealot]

I see. They definitely need to make it so that non command grab attacks actually do something to shields before introducing them. I agree shielding would just become the most overpowered option in almost any situation, just shield X attack, then punish.

Whiff punishing is one thing, but there should be some degree of shield safety so you can actually pressure someone playing defensively.

[dusty nova]

I've never once experienced a diddo duos tnj match

[cerulean cliff]

Jerryshots for days

[cerulean cliff]

Its Smash 4 all over again except without the 50/50 down throw EZ bake kill confirms

Instead its dash jab out of shield that makes spacing worthless

Which imo is way worse

[cyan whale]

I mean, the movement in MVS is 10x better than Smash 4, but yeah shields are definitely not good in their current state

[coarse drift]

Peak Tom and Jerry skin has finally dropped and it can be earned for free

[trim cave]

Yes

TIME FOR US TNJ MAINS TO GRAB THAT PEAK

[dusty nova]

Seems tnj is u touched in thus patch 😔

[sharp plaza]

What do you even play to be that annoying holy

I don't even main TnJ and you are annoying af

Probably bad at the game too

[oak lark]

Nah

They all play like they inside a closet

Gain

Again*

I never said I lost 🤷🏾‍♂️

They annoying asf and play like lil girls

[sharp plaza]

Ok so why do you even come here to cry and insult people?

Are you just that bad at the game that you need to come here?

[odd marsh]

Nova literally goes in character chats just to be talked to since he spends his entire day criticizing characters

Actually crazy how people spend their entire day on discord

[odd marsh]

You’re probably only calling them little girls because they step back from the opponent to use a projectile because they’re a mage

[oak lark]

Step back??

They don’t even step forward

[sharp plaza]

You didn't answer anything, what do you play lil bro?

[oak lark]

Unless you a player I’m talking about idk why tf you even care

Which you probably are since you seem to care about everything I’m saying

This is discord get used to hate

[oak lark]

Not Tnj that’s for sure

[sharp plaza]

Oh yeah you don't even want to say your main cuz you are probably carried af

Like holy you only come here to call other people gay? That's all?

Are you a teenager or something? Cuz that's the only thing you know how to say

[sharp plaza]

Btw this is funny cuz the TOS of discord says something about that, also #discord-rules but I'm sure you don't know how to read

[oak lark]

lol

[oak lark]

If you read the character chats you’d know who my main is

[coarse drift]

I have beaten TtvFwclxt the Batman Tom and Jerry skin in mine now no one can use it

Jk

[lost violet]

You’re so deep in there you project it onto other people for playing a character

[lost violet]

Which is crazy because since you probably play a character that requires auto pilot to win with you don’t really need to be talking

[oak lark]

Crazy how you calling my main an auto pilot character when you don’t even know who I main 😭

[lost violet]

Considering how scared you are to tell people who you main while coming here to call us gay for who we main

[sharp plaza]

You main Bugs and yeah, autopilot, nair and win lmao

[lost violet]

I knew it

[lost violet]

Although my first guess was Finn

Had to be one of the autopilot characters though

[subtle lotus]

<@&882349260409032746>

[odd wadi]

Lol did he get banned

Nova

[lost violet]

No he just got the comment calling people gay deleted. He’s still here

[odd wadi]

It says the only mutual servers I'm in with them is the pokemon go cheating server 😂

Like for you it shows this and zenless

That's actually wild

Mightve left but probably got banned

Anyway. We still upset about paddle? I haven't played much because playing Jason is upsetting especially going against masters and grandmasters

[lost violet]

If he got banned or left the server, his name wouldn’t still be blue

[odd wadi]

Its white for me

The @ doesnt show him either

[lost violet]

Had to refresh on my end. He’s gone

[odd wadi]

Like i tap your name and it puts your tag but not his

Oh okay

Had to be a kid

Think I'll play today. Wanna try getting to masters again.

[trim zealot]

What did they type to get banned?

Was it someone else rage baiting?

[odd marsh]

Nova just loves getting attention from calling characters bad

[trim zealot]

I see, so more rage bait.

T&J definitely aren’t great, but not bad if zoning.

[coarse drift]

Zoning has its place but I don’t think it should be the default strat at least in 2s

As weird as it sounds

[raven onyx]

I just hope TnJ doesnt get nerfed more tbh

[odd marsh]

I want to main TnJ but not if they get nerfed again

[raven onyx]

We've already been bullied by PFG but the ignore the top tiers

[trim cave]

Do u mean the power puff girls when u say pfg?

[tardy scaffold]

Player's First Games

[trim cave]

A

Ima commit:

But then again the nerfs do make it a bit more challenging tho in the wrong levels

[raven onyx]

All i can say is its life or burial for TnJ rn

Considering the hate we get im betting were getting nerfed again

[trim cave]

People wont stop, ig we just too powerful and very skilled with our arsenal

[raven onyx]

I have a message to the people who complain about TnJ.GET GOOD AND STOP WHINING

[trim cave]

AGREED

[raven onyx]

IT ISNT HARD TO BEAT THEM

[trim cave]

2k more sppoky bucks and i get great haunted candy for my tnj skin

[raven onyx]

Im defo saving up for the Bugs Skin and the TnJ skin

[trim cave]

Ifk what to spend the rest of the haunted candies once i get tnj batman & joker

Idk*

Really i dont see much with the rest

Nothing that hits a good spot really

[odd wadi]

is anybody in plat even playing anymore

I'm in plat and I get either masters or grandmasters or silvers

[coarse drift]

It’s because of MMR

[keen swan]

Unfortunately this character will likely never be very good again

Or at least considered “good”

They keep getting rid of anything that made a character unique or cool outside of their base role

Like getting rid of Finn’s combo routes so now we only get to do sair 1 into sair 2 every time

Which is stronger

But it isn’t nearly as interesting or fun

And backpack is just a ‘clash with me and you die’ move now

Tom and Jerry lost his 50/50 combos because people don’t know how to mix up their DI

[keen swan]

That is, after the auto tech update, before that that was just a straight up loop

But know he just seems like the throw random moves out and jerryshot

[civic apex]

What happened to Jerry's rocket? Did anyone else notice it?

[trim cave]

?

[trim cave]

Im starting to think that the rocket if u did it up arial can kill most characters at around 100

And tanks around that 150 mark or less, like that time i sniped joker with a grounded rocket mouse

The iron giant dodged it but i had my intentions that he would dodge that

I dont see this often as well but every third hit can trick the opponent into guessing your next move like side hit 4 times or paddle or down grounded

Or shoot jerry and if the guy moves to the right, hes in range of the funny cork

[ornate drift]

guys what are some good combos?

[coarse drift]

Up tilt sair at lower precents

[ornate drift]

ok

[coarse drift]

Then a bunch of gimmicks for the other combos

[dusty nova]

I love it when my rat saves the heavy with a corg at high percentage

[subtle lotus]

Theres no combos at all

Like non true combos

Its really situational

And di dependent

Hes not like an combo character

He got 0 combos

And kill confirms

I recommend you to spam and camp projectiles

Theres nothing left here

[lean haven]

Thats why I stopped seconding em since season 1. I used to main em in beta 😔

Thats why I think everu character should have tilts, not just side-tilt (jab) More combos ways

[sturdy yarrow]

Not true about kill confirms racket into IAD Jerry rocket into upair is a decent kill combo

[subtle lotus]

Racket into iad jerry rocket

Is not true at all

Also doing an racket mid match its impossible

You cant rush down with the racket

Also has slow startup frames

So it's easy to dodge

And the percent amount of whiff to punish perfectly

Also racket into rocket is not true on the ground

You need to hit racket in the air

At more than 50%

[hidden verge]

Against all odds fellas

I did it

I hit master Tom and Jerry against all odds

[coarse drift]

The racket is a very good move what?

[raven onyx]

We salute you

[raven onyx]

Is Snowball Effect good on TnJ?

[dusty nova]

My man

[hidden verge]

Kinda

Flammable doc

Is just better tho

[hidden verge]

Word

[grand anchor]

Tom and jerry can be hard to master but they're still the best

[echo hollow]

The Fishing rod is surprisingly good. I forgot it can be used as a way to get a cheeky kill and quickly get Jerry

[subtle lotus]

They are hard to master and trash

[subtle lotus]

Ain't an cheesy kill confirm

Its really slow and while your using the fishing rod your vulnerable to being rush down

Also after you try to recovery from the rod

You'll get like 15 frames of recovery

So you will get punished anyway

Hes not good

People aren't learning how to play against him

That's all

The casual community cant win an single match

Really deceptionating

[echo hollow]

Well yeah the rod has tons of end lag

[dusty nova]

Jason being fat enough and easy enough to win majority of matches against tnj now is crazy

Massive up slash the super armor grab and his air slash + rage really making it easy for em

Actually hate how tnj is rn

[unkempt tapir]

I find it as a satisfying move to land ^^

[dusty nova]

God whyd they ruin my boi tnj like this

He's cooked by majority roster now

They coulda just buffed the low teirs instead but NOOOO

Ofc not

[raven onyx]

We still get hate

[hollow flax]

Tom and Jerry broken please fix

[glossy path]

T&J is still annoying to fight. They may not be top tier (Still high tier in my opinion) but people saying "Just counter it lol" also don't seem to realize they're playing a zoner with like 5 projectiles and good brawling tools

[grand anchor]

Then why are you here

[subtle lotus]

I'm here bc its my main since the beggining

But saying that his good it's just wrong

The more you lv up in ranked and face good players

[grand anchor]

Yea he could be sometimes bad

[subtle lotus]

You'll what T&J it's, and how all the good players know the counterplay

[subtle lotus]

His not sometimes bad

I consider me good at the game

Alr winned some matches against grandmasters

I'm masters 1 with T&J

Top 23

And i think the character its just f tier

People still think that he's still good

They simply don't know the counterplay

That's all

Even how to di paddle

@grand anchor You'll see what im talking about when you start climbing on ranked

And start matchmaking with good players like gm's or masters

[grand anchor]

Nice 👍

[glossy path]

You can't di paddle

[subtle lotus]

Of you can

If your at 100% - 110%

[glossy path]

You can't just get out of the paddle multihit

Brother

[subtle lotus]

You can di away and avoid up air from the last hit

[glossy path]

By then I'm getting up aired

[subtle lotus]

I'm talking about the follow up

Also you can di paddle anyways without the last hit

[glossy path]

Can you remember that you're playing a zoner?

[subtle lotus]

Even if paddle its an multihit

[glossy path]

Their entire purpose is to keep you away

[subtle lotus]

If the T&J don't follow your di

And stand in the same place with paddle

You can di away

[glossy path]

Yet people use them like bruisers

[glossy path]

They never will

[subtle lotus]

You can avoid up air

[glossy path]

Yes, and then I get jerry shot

[subtle lotus]

Ik but it's possible

Nope

Paddle can't confirm into jerry shot

Only side air and up air

[glossy path]

You're right

[subtle lotus]

You can avoid up air at 100%

[glossy path]

But if I dodge the up air

Then they can see that dodge

And shoot Jerry towards me

And start their zoning gameplay

[subtle lotus]

Is not about dodging it

Its just di

To whiff the up air

Then you can get the full punish

They lit miss the up air in front of you

[glossy path]

Or the T&J can... wait

Or mix up

Or not approach

[subtle lotus]

Well that's the most optimum way to play him

[glossy path]

Apparently it isn't

[subtle lotus]

They nerfed every combo from hi.

[glossy path]

If it isn't working

Then it's not optimal

[subtle lotus]

And its really hard to kill confirm with him

[glossy path]

They were never even a combo character

[subtle lotus]

It is working

[glossy path]

Well it apparently isn't if you think they're horrible

[subtle lotus]

Theres no mix up now also

[glossy path]

You have 5 projectiles

[subtle lotus]

They got only projectile

And its mediocre

[glossy path]

You have mixups

[subtle lotus]

Theres no mix up

Got patched

[glossy path]

Yep I'm done talking to you

You called T&J projectiles mediocre

I'm done

[subtle lotus]

What mix up?

[subtle lotus]

They aren't mediocre

[glossy path]

Have fun

[subtle lotus]

The fact that we don't have combos

And our only way to do atleast smth it's projectiles

Its mediocre

[subtle lotus]

Your just at an low rank maybe

Or need more experience against them

[glossy path]

Masters 2 and Masters 5

2 characters to that point

[subtle lotus]

Masters 1 and masters 3

[glossy path]

So a few matches higher

[subtle lotus]

2 characters too

[glossy path]

Good job

[subtle lotus]

Thx

I fought some grandmasters

And learn the counterplay against my own character

[glossy path]

Ranked doesn't mean anything, I have fought GMS in plat

[subtle lotus]

Theres some di's that you need to learn

And almost every character can one shot jerry

[glossy path]

Yea and there's options to disengage with T&J

[subtle lotus]

So you need to find the move that insta kill him

[glossy path]

Cause they're a zoner

Or the Tom just protects him???

[subtle lotus]

Yeah they are more like an zoner now

But they have poor kill power

[glossy path]

They always have been

No they don't

I'm done

You're a brick wall

[subtle lotus]

Just be aware of being caught at 80% -110%

[subtle lotus]

They struggle to kill at higher percents

[glossy path]

That up air and jab into dtilt tend to disagree

[subtle lotus]

They can down air into up air if your around of 80 to 105 or smth like that

Then you can just di everything

[subtle lotus]

Jab into d tilt kill super late

Jab 1 into d tilt kill at 150 and 180 wtf are you talking about?

[glossy path]

On maps with huge outer blastzones

[subtle lotus]

You just need to di the d tilt and you'll die really late

[glossy path]

You also have a ledgeguard game

Which is really good

[subtle lotus]

Ledgeguard its good ngl

Dair its really big

And goated spike

The best move on their kit

[glossy path]

Dair, projectiles, Jerry, up air, sair

[subtle lotus]

Jerry ain't that good anymore

[glossy path]

Liar

[subtle lotus]

As i said you can one shot him really easily

[subtle lotus]

Ain't lying

[glossy path]

He's always been able to defend himself with corks

[subtle lotus]

Idk why but now almost all characters can one shot him so easily

[glossy path]

You cannot deny that

[subtle lotus]

It doesn't matter

[glossy path]

You need to play around defending him

[subtle lotus]

If the Tom wants to defend jerry

You can just dodge the jerry shot and rush down tom

His on disadvantage

[glossy path]

It def does when some characters NEED to be next to jerry for the one shot

[subtle lotus]

So if you read him you can just get an early kill

[glossy path]

Yea if the opponent plays perfect vs an ass T&J

I'm done

[subtle lotus]

Theres a lot of characters with quick jerry one shot, like rick

[glossy path]

Shut up

[subtle lotus]

Nope

[glossy path]

I can't hear this cope

[subtle lotus]

You can just do that and thats all

[glossy path]

You're so extremely biased holy hell

[subtle lotus]

You can just prove it in the game you khow

[glossy path]

I don't need to prove anything

[subtle lotus]

Your just talking based on opinions with no arguments you can just enter the game

[glossy path]

I have arguments

[subtle lotus]

And prove all of i say

[glossy path]

You just deny all of them

[subtle lotus]

Just enter the game and check everything

[glossy path]

That's called being dishonest

[glossy path]

That's not how that works

Just shut up

[subtle lotus]

I'm not being dishonest

[glossy path]

Please

[subtle lotus]

I'm just telling you what the gm's have done against me

Playing T&J

[glossy path]

Your character isn't F tier

[subtle lotus]

Maybe for you, you don't play the character

[glossy path]

And I'm telling you not every GM is good

[subtle lotus]

I fought the top 10

[coarse drift]

Nah f tier is dishonest

[subtle lotus]

And lonely dripp like 10 times

Idk what tier he is

[glossy path]

I don't even know who that is

[subtle lotus]

I just told his weaknesses

[glossy path]

Nor do I care who that is

[glossy path]

Which aren't absolutes like you make them out to be

[subtle lotus]

You can just prove it in game bro

[glossy path]

You hyper focus on the weaknesses and ignore every strength

[subtle lotus]

The weaknesses are there

[glossy path]

But ONLY for T&J

[subtle lotus]

You don't see them

[glossy path]

Oh my god, shut it up

[subtle lotus]

His strength

Sair

Dair

[glossy path]

You can't prove anything in the game

[subtle lotus]

Projectile spam

Dynamite

[glossy path]

Because I can't just go in there into the lab and see all that can I?

[subtle lotus]

Dair into up air confirming around 80% - 100%

[glossy path]

Every situation

That's just not how a game works

[subtle lotus]

A thing that works on every di and situation?

Nah that's impossible

[glossy path]

That's like people saying shields will be ass because every time the same thing will happen

[subtle lotus]

Like jab 1 into d tilt

[glossy path]

You can't even read what I'm saying I can't bro

[subtle lotus]

Idk bro im really tired today

Ain't reading that good

I have an massive fever

Right now

[glossy path]

Then get rest

Instead of having an argument about MVS T&J

To someone with their own issues

[subtle lotus]

I just feel the character is not good at all

Its lacking on some important things

[glossy path]

I feel like I can disagree

And that you feel that way because you had loops

They took them

[subtle lotus]

He got the worst disadvantage in game and his like the 2nd lightest character in game

[glossy path]

And now you have a more honest character

[subtle lotus]

Nope

I was an aggressive T&J

[glossy path]

Because of loops

[subtle lotus]

Looking for the new set up on tech bounce

[glossy path]

Yea exactly, loops

[subtle lotus]

No, i really like them bc of his read ability

[glossy path]

Techs didn't solve anything

[subtle lotus]

They were the best character at reading

I dont want the loops back

Just an new set up or 50/50

[glossy path]

Yea aka it was easy to do loops into read into the same thing

Cut the read out and you have the same thing

[subtle lotus]

I was on disagree with paddle loops

I made an huge complain to ajax

About T&J loops

[glossy path]

A lot of characters rn are just oppressive

[subtle lotus]

They waesnt funny to fight and perform

[glossy path]

But T&J aren't bad

[subtle lotus]

I just want T&J to be an complete read character

[glossy path]

They just aren't as insane as the top tiers

[glossy path]

They're a zoner, they shouldn't be combo demons

[subtle lotus]

His kill power its just not there, and his disadvantage, weight and lack of combos can make them that good

His only like really good side its

Projectiles set ups

And down air in ledge

[glossy path]

That's his entire strength

That should be the entire strength

[subtle lotus]

I just don't like it, it's really passive

[glossy path]

You picked a mage

[subtle lotus]

And they said that they didn't want the passive gameplay in the game

I would like the game to have an faster gameplay

Add wavedashing

[glossy path]

They're adding that too

[subtle lotus]

Like an tigher one

[glossy path]

Already in but sure

[subtle lotus]

Shields

And grabs

[glossy path]

No grabs but there will be shieldbreakers

[subtle lotus]

Ik but like an meele wavedash

[glossy path]

That sounds not fun tbh

[subtle lotus]

Grabs would be really good

[glossy path]

I don't want melee

[subtle lotus]

I do

[glossy path]

Then go play melee

[subtle lotus]

Meele its an goated competitive game

[glossy path]

Then play it

[subtle lotus]

Il prefer rivals 2

[subtle lotus]

Your really mad i think

Bruh

Don't be rude

[glossy path]

I don't want this game to be melee

That was what Beta tried

And it felt absolutely awful

[subtle lotus]

Beta was goated

[glossy path]

Looking at the gameplay from then now makes me nauseous

[subtle lotus]

Really goated

[subtle lotus]

Fast gameplay its the best

[glossy path]

Not everyone agrees

[subtle lotus]

Take brawhalla, meele or smth like that as an example

[glossy path]

Traditional fighters def disagree

[subtle lotus]

Anime fighters agree

[glossy path]

I want there to be speed but it to not be so overwhelming

[subtle lotus]

Like platform fighters are supossed to be really fast and chaotic

[glossy path]

Ultimate isn't even that

[subtle lotus]

An platform fighter and an traditional fighter aren't comparable on any way

[glossy path]

Ultimate has a good pace

[subtle lotus]

Steve being in the game and sonic

[subtle lotus]

Nah bro

[glossy path]

Wdym nah

[subtle lotus]

Steve, fox, sonic, Mr game and watch

[glossy path]

It's always been seen as more balanced than most

[subtle lotus]

Pyra and mythra

[subtle lotus]

Smash ultimate ain't balanced on any way

[glossy path]

You're taking top tiers/outliers from the past few years

Beta Mvs had Superman

[subtle lotus]

Steve its one of the most broken character that an platform fighter could have

[glossy path]

Who was the best in the game and then got omega buffed

In the last patch

Or Harley who got her loop taken away... Just to get a new one

[subtle lotus]

The gameplay is not the same like in beta

Now its like 200% slower

[glossy path]

Yes

And they're speeding it back up a bit more

[subtle lotus]

The op stuff ain't that op with an wacky and slow gameplay

[glossy path]

But I do not want beta speed as that literally hurt my eyes

[subtle lotus]

Having this speed leds you to dodge and be precise really easily

Instead of taking skill and being focus like other games

[glossy path]

Not everything needs to be extremely skillfull and precise

That just pushes away casual audiences

[subtle lotus]

I really like that at every figthing game

[glossy path]

Remember NASB1?

[subtle lotus]

The dead game with sponge bob?

[glossy path]

That was really fast and hard

And NO ONE CARED AFTER WEEK 1

[subtle lotus]

Maybe bc they didn't have voice acting

An good training mode

And good features for an platform fighter

[glossy path]

Nah, the gameplay itself was also way too fast to be casually enjoyable

Mvs beta bled players for the same reasons

[subtle lotus]

An fast game its really enjoyable

Like brawhalla

[glossy path]

For you

Not for everyone

[subtle lotus]

Its an beginner friendly and competitive game

[glossy path]

I do not think Brawlhalla is beginner friendly

[subtle lotus]

I was an pro player at brawhalla I got to admit it it was really flashy and fast

You could get 0td if you get read heavily

[glossy path]

Yea, and that destroyed any enjoyment I could have

[subtle lotus]

But you need to do an sequence of reads really precisely like 4 reads to kill in 5 seconds

[subtle lotus]

No bro

It was really cool

[glossy path]

For the person doing it sure

Or watching

[subtle lotus]

Like you need to predict your opponents dodge and use it as an way to kill earlier

[glossy path]

Being on the receiving end is aggrovating

[subtle lotus]

Lit one of the skillest games

[glossy path]

I don't care

I want fun

[subtle lotus]

Bruh

[glossy path]

Not always the most skill

[subtle lotus]

Its funny once you get good by the time

[glossy path]

It doesn't give me enjoyment

I enjoy other things than you do

[subtle lotus]

I lit picked T&J on the mvs launch bc i saw an vid that he was the harder character in game

[glossy path]

I like slower paced platform fighters

[subtle lotus]

I thought he was the skillest character

[glossy path]

Yes but that's you

I'm talking me

And others

[subtle lotus]

So i main him since day 1, and bought him

[glossy path]

That are not you

[subtle lotus]

And rivals 2?

[glossy path]

We have different tastes

[grand anchor]

That's enough all of the infinite loops are nerfed please stop asking the devs to fix them 😭😭

[glossy path]

I can't even play it cause my laptop is as

[subtle lotus]

Bruh

But it looks so good

[glossy path]

Yes I have a garbage laptop

[subtle lotus]

Its like meele but with a lot more stuff

[subtle lotus]

Same

[glossy path]

It looks good while not being extremely overwhelming

Imo

[subtle lotus]

It could be overwhelming

[glossy path]

It's got a good mix of speed and skill expression and I'd love to play it

[subtle lotus]

Its like meele and got a lot of pressure

Its an really flashy gameplay too

[glossy path]

Yes but MVS Beta was way too overwhelming

[subtle lotus]

But a lil bit slower

[subtle lotus]

Ok il admit it

It was like meele

But more faster

So you waesnt precise of your movement

At all

[glossy path]

Yea and Melee is already hard to keep track of sometimes

[subtle lotus]

Yeah it's an really hard game

[glossy path]

I can now but at the start I really couldn't

Anyways you should sleep

I should too

So uh, gn I guess

[subtle lotus]

Gn

[dusty nova]

Witch blows my mind btw

[raven onyx]

People cant deal with projectiles

[dusty nova]

They just can't handle the flying tennis balls😔

[raven onyx]

I swear if we get nerfed again im gonna scream like Z Broly

[dusty nova]

They can't nerf him again💀 he already ruined. A good jake player literally full counters a tnj the long fist off stage the deflector his bite and the Arial Spin hammer that follow up move air spin he has just kinda gets the job done kill at 80 I'm just using jake as an example for how far tom has fallen these things would be 100% fine if tnj wasn't nerfed down to the ground tnj just dies to jasons he's to fat dose tons of dmg and knock back and toms best combo dose 27 dmg max mmeanwhile the jaoson useing rage and spamms the armor grab doing 30+ dmg in one hit without the rage

[raven onyx]

Ive literally got no hope left for TnJ now

[dusty nova]

They over here starving tom to death 😔

[raven onyx]

We done bruh

[coarse drift]

I don’t know why yall talk like this character is completely unplayable

[dusty nova]

He's not unplayable dawg he's completely outplayable

[raven onyx]

We cant do much

Ive lost games bc of we cant do much

[dusty nova]

All his "combos" are dodgable and the ones that aren't dont kill and the ones that do have to have the player at 130 the down pan jerrt rocket is also dodgable tom was a light combo character he could die early in exchange for combos and dmg but now he can't do enough dmg to any dc character LET alone jason and manage to kill before tom dies to a baisic jab confirm witch ppl would loose their shi if tom got a Jab confirm like batman did

[raven onyx]

But they kill TnJ but gave Batman a slap on the wrist

[dusty nova]

Batman got a remaster he didn't need while taking away tnjs jump cancel 💀

I understand that the fake Infinite was kinda a issue but the jump cancel was half his combos

And the roll system fixed the infinite for the big characters like Jason or ig

I'm ded

[raven onyx]

What would happen if we got nerfed even more

[coarse drift]

I remember them changing paddle because they wanted us to have more combo game and then removed our best combo route like a patch later

[raven onyx]

Some on that Dev Team hates TnJ

[dusty nova]

I didn't even use the jump cancel to jerry shot i used paddle into down pan witch was dodgable 💀

I never thought they'd remove the jump cancel

Half his chedder

[coarse drift]

Up tilt into down air into Jerry shot into up tilt again

I still think this character is good but they seem confused do they want him to be zoning character or a combo character

They have him changes to be one and then backpedaled

[dusty nova]

They fixed that with the roll system and even then if that was still the real issue they could of just made jerry shot really stail after the 1st use of the combo

[coarse drift]

I was lowkey reacting to the roll so it wasn’t the greatest fix I’ll be honest 💀

[dusty nova]

Yeah if you read the direction they roll then theyer all yours

[raven onyx]

Im calling it rn were getting nerfed again

[dusty nova]

[raven onyx]

Considering we hate we get we getting nerfed again

[coarse drift]

Jerry death no longer has a cooldown

If he dies he’s dead for the rest of the game 🫡

[raven onyx]

It actually over or us

[raven onyx]

You character is getting slaughtered with nerfs

[subtle lotus]

This character is alr dead

Theres no way they nerf us again

[dusty nova]

That is actually painfull to think about 💀

Watch em nerf fishing poll

[coarse drift]

They nerfed grounded up special in beta so I would not put it past them

[dusty nova]

Seems about right

[subtle lotus]

Theres no way they nerf us again bro

Maybe the projectiles passive gameplay that's all

Then compensate us with more approaches and combos

Bc we got no combos now

Lacking of kill power at high percents

And we got no approaches that isn't jerry

Also jerry can be one shot now by most of the cast

So there's no point on spamming neutral b anymore

And having the worst disadvantage state at the game

And the 2nd lightest character

We can't get nerfed again

Theres no way

If they nerf projectiles they need to compensate us with combos and approaches

Also kill power

And kil confirms

[dusty nova]

I wouldn't put it past to nerf him again even tho there's no wayyyy

He needs all he has rn

All his dodgable combos and 140% kill confirms 🤝

[subtle lotus]

Bruh

We dont kill even at 140

Its 150 and 180

Depending on stage and character

Also di

But its around those percentage

[dusty nova]

Yeah it sucks fighting a good jaosn just means you loose

[raven onyx]

S4 is our last chance TnJ mains

Theirs a slither of health left

[dusty nova]

What's this your at 70% as a tnj ? teleports

Cat dies

One button

[raven onyx]

Cue the Tom scream

[subtle lotus]

Ye

And people still come to this chat and start trash talking about this character

And when we start talking about our weaknesses they say it's downplaying

Bruh

I'm tired of this

[dusty nova]

Meanwhile I have to combo to the moon with my full dodgable moveset

[subtle lotus]

Just delete the character this community sucks

And they won't get use to play against this characted

Even if his f tier

Or the worst in the game

Just delete him

I dont want to suffer anymore

[dusty nova]

He's the only character that keeps me on this game 💀

[raven onyx]

Plus we just got a really good skin on them so we gave some hope

[subtle lotus]

Go play an better game

[dusty nova]

You can imagine my pain when I discovered my main combo string was taken away (the jump cancel) and the ability to cancel paddle into mallet

[subtle lotus]

Like rivals 2 or smth

They have an better community

And its an really competitive and good game

They aren't casuals yappers

Crying about being bad

I'm just tired

[dusty nova]

Rivals one is better in my opinion especially with the workshop characters

Funny ronald mc Donald

[raven onyx]

Plus i prefer the pixel type art style

[dusty nova]

Rivals two is slower and sacrifices frames for graphics and the 3d aspect as well

[subtle lotus]

Nah bro

Rivals 2 its just better

Better mechanics, better gameplay

Super fun gimmick

[raven onyx]

I cant really talk much about it bc havent played it

[subtle lotus]

Its like meele

But with a lot more stuff

And more balanced

Easier wavedashing

And they bring back waveshine

But more balanced

[dusty nova]

I prefer one cuz I played both Playing rivals one with the workshop and filling your own roster with fan made characters like houstons from Courage the cowardly, dog.Or peter griffin or ronald mc Donald

Some people in that game better at making balanced fan characters than people here at player first games

[subtle lotus]

They will implement the workshop latee

Would be really crazy if you can develop 3d models of your favorite characters

Would be so crazy

Like the og multiversus idea

Having every character possible

[dusty nova]

Yeahh

[raven onyx]

How did we fall from grace man

[subtle lotus]

On an game like rivals 2

That would be the best fighting game ever

[dusty nova]

For multiverses, I was expecting more cartoon characters and not more DC.Characters even if it's just a bizarro wonder woman

[raven onyx]

Beta was playable,Relauch is now a train wreck

[subtle lotus]

Relaunch its the slowest platform fighter ever

[dusty nova]

It'd be really good

[subtle lotus]

With an meta that have been the same across all the time

[dusty nova]

I thought we'd have marciline this season over nudia

[raven onyx]

We won fighting game of year FOR THIS???

[subtle lotus]

If T&J just dies

[dusty nova]

Ice king. Pink panther Jonny bravo

[subtle lotus]

Il go play marceline or rivals 2

[subtle lotus]

We won fighting game of the year

It was an robbery

They won above kof XV

Its lit the Ballon d ore situation

With vini and rodri

[raven onyx]

We got scammed for a raw "Relaunch"

[subtle lotus]

That's why everyone hates this game

Its lit an robbery of the year game

And its horrible right now

Poor balancing and an op meta

[raven onyx]

This is why i keep saying this game has favourites

[subtle lotus]

Yes

And T&J is the most hated one of the roster

And its just really awfull and makes me really sad

[raven onyx]

The fact TnJ is the most well loved animated characters hurts more

[subtle lotus]

This is the most misunderstood character in the game

With people complains about not knowing how to fight against him

[dusty nova]

Fr

[raven onyx]

TnJ have been Buried and Desecrated

If we get nerfed more i not moving from Bugs

[subtle lotus]

I alr moved to bugs

Bugs is just better in every sense than T&J

People say that his balanced and i agree