Tom And Jerry

[subtle lotus]

You got to be carefull with paddle bc can combo big characters

If your character its mid or small you won't get hit by it

Its an lil mix on di if he reads yours

And he won't get the jerry shot, then you can punish

Or if he misses then go to the full punish

[slender matrix]

Rocket without jerry 🥲

You need read the enemy after the paddle

[lost violet]

Welp that’s the entire list

[covert estuary]

real auto tech needs to be replaced

[cerulean cliff]

Real answer:

With Jerry, Jerryshot is special cancellable, without him nothing is guaranteed.

If you read their DI correctly, you can either go for dash jump cancelled sair or up air

that's about it

[civic apex]

risking my ass just to deal 3 damage 😭

[naive pebble]

There an infinite loop with jerry shot you can do out of the paddle just jerry shot after you use the paddle towards the ground and paddle them into the same thing over and over. I don't play Tom and Jerry and I've been doing it constantly against most characters I've played against. The tech is not a 50/50 some people I don't know what a 50/50 is and keep labeling things a 50/50 that aren't 50/50s

[sturdy yarrow]

People whining about Tom when stripe exists

[cerulean cliff]

This is like the 4th or 5th time you've mentioned this here, if its so easy, go play him and win matches so easily

Take him to Diamond minimum

Everyone who's done this in the lab I've yet to see it happen in a real match

[slender matrix]

I hope no one likes looping

[naive pebble]

Their strategy to get rid of it has failed they need to take a different approach

especially in this case. tbh idk if I'd feel the same way if this particularly unfair loop didn't exist.

[unkempt sinew]

Making Tom drop Jerry after the paddle attack might fix the issue of him always being able to loop with him

Like if you cancel the paddle early Jerry just drops next to him and needs picked up again.

So if Tom jump cancels he can't shoot with Jerry. It still allows for certain combos and follow ups but would make looping the paddle into itself impossible

[subtle lotus]

The loop don't exist

Its situational

Only on big hitbox characters

And your yelling about this character

When stripe and agent smith exist in this game

And they are 1000 times better than T&J

[raven onyx]

People hate TnJ more than Reverse Flash i swear

[subtle lotus]

Bro ik

His super giga nerfed

And people still come to complain about him

I think it's bc his gameplan its campy and spammy

[raven onyx]

Definite skill issue

[subtle lotus]

But if they complain about rushing T&J players

And the combo

They can't complain about this onr

One

[raven onyx]

?

[subtle lotus]

The campy style

I like bugs the most right now

[raven onyx]

Ah yea its on them for whining about it

[subtle lotus]

Man you got to see all the clips i get with bugs

[subtle lotus]

Totally deserved

[raven onyx]

Like focus on the actual threats on MVS not a character who got killed off

[subtle lotus]

Its not T&J problem

They complain about the 50/50

When they khow the tech bounce system it's garbage

This game its not smash

Got no competitive mechanics

And reward casual players

[raven onyx]

So your saying is bc of the Tech mechanic we got nerfed?

[subtle lotus]

Haven't seen any pro complain about T&J on season 3 that played smash before or got experience on other platform figthers

[subtle lotus]

Yes

[raven onyx]

im going to turn Super Saiyan

[subtle lotus]

Hahahaha

[subtle lotus]

They lit needed to rework the Tech system and T&J its fine

Revert the jump branch window nerf

[raven onyx]

IM GONNA MAKE BETA BUGS BUNNY LOOK LIKE A TEA PARTY

[subtle lotus]

Rework groundbounce and make it manual

Then add wall bounce tech

Like T&J it's good right now

As an passive and campy character

They didn't like the rush down T&J's like my playstyle

Now they're going to experience true suffering with projectiles spam

We got almost no combos our best option its to camp

They didn't like approaching with him, and actually having an 50/50

[raven onyx]

Im actually screaming rn PEOPLE GOT US NERFED BC THE TECH MECHANIC IS BAD?

[subtle lotus]

Now they're going to enjoy the bullet hell

[subtle lotus]

Yep, and they didnt nerf stripe or agent smith

They got exactly the same combos like T&J and better 50/50s

People just hate T&J

That's the truth

[cerulean cliff]

He cant jump cancel at all anymore, thats the huge nerf

[subtle lotus]

Yea

Now the paddle into jerry shot its more situational

Only works on big hitbox characters

If your character got small or mid hitbox

T&J got to read, and you won't get hit if you mix your di

So its lit impossible to get an follow up

Then you can punish him all you want

[raven onyx]

THIS COMMUNITY IS A JOKE.(not the sane people in this community)

[subtle lotus]

Lit it's

Doesn't matter how good your character is

If your annoying or the noobs can't counterplay

You will get nerfed

Lit all the people complaining here it's totally skill issue

Don't khow how to deal with T&J

Don't khow the counterplay

And can't punish paddle

His an simple character to punish

I played against T&J on this new patch

And its super easy to win

[raven onyx]

Im actually done with this community now

Its a clown show

[subtle lotus]

Fr

And the top tiers maintain untoched

As always

Batman its probably top 2 or top 1 right now

You khow what

Instead of nerfing batman

You khow bro i hate T&J

Lets kill him 🙂

Then buff batman ofc

Il just wait to get an fix on this character

[raven onyx]

The funny thing is WW is running free

[subtle lotus]

And grind bugs

[raven onyx]

Like thats gonna happen

[subtle lotus]

His really fun to play

And his good

Not like T&J

Bugs its godlike

[raven onyx]

AND HE REQUIRES A BRAIN TO PLAYYY

[subtle lotus]

If you khow how to get consistent reads

His lit an machine

[subtle lotus]

T&J required an brain to play after they nerfed the paddle again

Now he's an campy rat

He was an reads and 50/50 character

Now he's an lame trash like gizmo

Campy and spammy

Like people love

Bc they complain way to much on an character having combos and reads

And leave the ones, they main

Bc ofc its an top tier

And i have skill issue

[raven onyx]

They play top tiers and cry on twitter

[subtle lotus]

Fr

T&J should one of the easiest mus right now

For every character

They just need to kill jerry one time

And the game its over

[raven onyx]

I never see them anymore

[subtle lotus]

Yeah it's really sad

[raven onyx]

The saddening thing is TnJ is our childhood

[subtle lotus]

Yeah

I mained him bc i like hard characters in fighting games in general

[raven onyx]

Me to

[subtle lotus]

And he was an character with a lot of potentiak

Potential

Set ups

50/50s

Reads

All the options that you have

Even if he got the worst disadvantage

And he's to light

[raven onyx]

I mained TnJ in beta it was soo funn

[subtle lotus]

If you khow how to use him

His super fun and skill

Now he's an lame character

And people will keep him lame till they die

Bc they can't get read in an platform figther

[raven onyx]

I might just slaughter everyone with Bugs Bunny tbh

[subtle lotus]

And they think 50/50s and reads its an character matter not lit the skill of an player

I imagine Mvs players, trying Rivals 2, Smash Ultimate ir Brawhalla

[raven onyx]

They crumble

[subtle lotus]

And look at his faces after getting cooked by an good player

Reading them

And knowing how to play correctly

Saying its the character fault

Then check the tier list

And see the same character on b or c tier

[raven onyx]

They be looking like Tom screaming

[subtle lotus]

Fr

When rivals 2 release

Il go play there

Its more competitive and not an game to compensate casuals

And nerfing the character that aren't that good bc peoples complains

[raven onyx]

Smash is the most competitive platform fighter i swear

[subtle lotus]

Could be rivals 2

With all of their new mechanics

Its like meele

[raven onyx]

Im not in that community so idk

[subtle lotus]

With a lot of upgrades

Imagine meele

With tons of options

I really want to see an mvs player

Trying online meele

🤣

[raven onyx]

Id pay money for that💀

[subtle lotus]

Spamming smth like

Nerf bowser

Bc he got an grab chain

Can be di

But i swear they don't khow how to di and escape of that

They will scream and cry at meele community

Looking for an nerf hahahahaha

😂

[raven onyx]

That community will be like "bro shut up"

[subtle lotus]

Fr

[raven onyx]

And they look at Bowser on the tier list and hes bottom 3 or 4

[subtle lotus]

Hahahaha

They don't khow how to di

Or punishing one move

Meele its an complicated platform figther

This game its on baby mode for noobs

[raven onyx]

I saw someone wanting Bugs nerfed

[subtle lotus]

He lit needs a lot of reads

[raven onyx]

Ik

[subtle lotus]

To play him

And i like it

I'm getting a lot of clips with him

T&J was an character with lot of reads to play him

And they nerfed his combos

So there's no point on trying to rush

And read

If doesn't work

Just camp and spam tennis balls

[raven onyx]

Its sad to see our community complain about this but they deserved this

[subtle lotus]

Fr

[unkempt sinew]

Yeah and I want him to still be able to but with the Jerry change I suggested

[cerulean cliff]

I dont know how much that actually changes

[dusty nova]

A lot

[cerulean cliff]

Not particularly

Because the way Jerry as a mechanic works, we'd pick him back up mid combo string

then we're back to square one

I'd be jump cancelling into fast fall dair and then I have him back

[subtle lotus]

That change it's good

If you delay the jerry pickup

You cant combo paddle jerry shot 2 times in a row

But there's more alternatives

Like paddle dair

Paddle rackeg

Racket

Paddle jerry shot jab looking for an reset

[dusty nova]

My multiverses keeps crashing while loading a match

[cyan whale]

This keeps happening to me too

Glad to know it’s not just me

[dusty nova]

Yrrp

[cyan whale]

I failed to matchmake after game 1 in ranked 3 times in a row

And therefore got no RP gains

[dusty nova]

Just crashed a fith time.fr me

[cyan whale]

Yeah I stopped playing for tonight. Must be something up with the servers

[dusty nova]

Can't play one match

Seems about right

[cerulean cliff]

yeah I can't load into my matches either

[cerulean cliff]

Oh apparently ALL of PSN is down

Sure enough I can't get any games on SF6

[unkempt tapir]

I've already gotten used to T&J, even after the paddle change. I can see why they wanted to nerf it, they wanted to make T&J feel more open to their moveset 👌

[unkempt tapir]

What about Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl 2? That's a good game.

[cerulean cliff]

What about NASB2? (kidding)

I wish it had half the marketing that Rivals or MVS has

[unkempt tapir]

I'm guessing it barely has any : (

[cerulean cliff]

Nick really does not care about pushing for that game, they barely did anything for NASB1

[unkempt tapir]

True, the first one was good and bad at the same time.

[cerulean cliff]

The most they did for the sequel was give juuust enough budget for them to have voice acting from the get go (which was still stupid it took a year to add it in the original)

[unkempt tapir]

y e a h, I still enjoy the game even if I rarely go into it.

[cerulean cliff]

I legit did not know the Iroh DLC dropped until I saw people whining for him to be banned in tournaments

[unkempt tapir]

💀💀💀 dang.

[drifting pier]

SCUM

[naive pebble]

whatever buff t and j need to be good and fun give them that buff idc.

Just remove the broken paddle jerryshot loop.

This game is cooked if yall keep lying just to protect your character, PFG has to have seen the loop I'm talking about by now.

Idk if you guys genuinely haven't seen it at this point, I suspect some of you have and are just lying about it and if that's the case then screw you.

[sharp plaza]

They discovered a true combo from 47-50 that is also a kill confirm on TnJ oops, guess he still is a mid tier with paddle being weak 😁

[subtle lotus]

It situational only works on big hitbox characters

If your character got an medium or small hitbox

Yo can avoid the combo mixing di

The combo its not consistent

Its really bad on small or medium characters

They need to revert the changes

Then add manual tech bounce

And thats all

The problem about T&J and the paddle string was the 50/50 on tech bounce

That waesnt an 50/50 at all bc of the huge hitbox

So it should be manual so you can predict were your opponent will tech

And you can stay at the floor

So you can avoid some animations

Like racket paddle you khow

But you can get hit by low attacks ofc

Like down tilt

[naive pebble]

stop lecturing me on something that you literally failed to do when we played because you didn't aim the jerry shot diagonally down into the ground.

Just cause you can't do it doesn't mean it's not in the game

[cerulean cliff]

If this is true then the TnJ players are just better at developing the character than others, ya'll just gotta hold that

I for one have been getting non paddle confirms off of stray hits in neutral

But like I said before, take it up with the devs. Make a support ticket

[raven onyx]

You know they aren't

[cerulean cliff]

Not my problem when there's a solution that isnt learning the MU

[trim zealot]

What is it? I lab with Tom every patch and I haven’t found anything close to that damage.

[sharp plaza]

https://x.com/LooneyLabman/status/1828244331100319835?t=Ra3Ya6VFDkdHgv7VZbeiBA&s=19

Paddle -> jerryshot -> IAD up special -> up air

[cerulean cliff]

That's not new

Granted, it was way easier to hit with the jump cancel, now its a tighter window

If our jab were consistent you could hit it off that too

[sharp plaza]

Then TnJ players doesn't like using it at all

[cerulean cliff]

I do, quite a few times

Also thats not a loop

Not a single move was repeated in that string

Where's the issue here

[sharp plaza]

I didn't say it was a loop, just showing it for the people that says "TnJ doesn't kill just like Marvin"

[cerulean cliff]

Oh I dunno who said that

Marvin's annoying this patch but lacks a good confirm

On the other end of the spectrum, Jason is becoming the new Shaggy

Get jabbed once and die

Which is sad because he has potential for sauce, but why do that when jab

[trim zealot]

I doubted it would even be true, but this seems legit.

Gonna practice it later.

[cyan whale]

Oh I’ve totally gotten hit by this before when playing against a T&J in top 100 global

Not even Shaggy can kill that early

[trim zealot]

While I’m at it, I’ll check how early it can be performed.

[subtle lotus]

Ik how to do it right now it's kinda situational

When we played it was day 1 after the jerry changes

Its unconsistent

You can di mix

If your character its big enough

Its true

But not on all characters

[cyan whale]

It’s 100% consistent on Shaggy I can tell you that

[naive pebble]

it's harder to think of characters it's not consistent on than characters it is consistent on

[subtle lotus]

It is

If your character has medium or small hitbox

Its harder

Bc you can mix the di

[subtle lotus]

Depends on percent, theres some routes when it's more optimum to use racket instead of jerry

And di

[subtle lotus]

Well half of the cast can di mix up

Only the really big hitbox characters can't escape of the combo

If your character its medium or small

The T&J needs to read the di and the mix

To get you

And its really hard

[cerulean cliff]

The hardest part is knowing your percent windows

If the opponent has too much or too little damage, they're not in range for the IAD follow up

[trim zealot]

It’s crazy to me that some people think heavies weren’t designed to be combo food. That’s why they’re heavier, to compensate for the hurtbox size.

[raven onyx]

People think that?

[dusty nova]

Doubt

[sharp plaza]

What do you even doubt? Lol

[dusty nova]

clip?

[sharp plaza]

It's literally there lol https://x.com/LooneyLabman/status/1828244331100319835?t=Ra3Ya6VFDkdHgv7VZbeiBA&s=19
Paddle -> jerryshot -> IAD up special -> up air

[keen swan]

Holy cow

[dusty nova]

Dang I used to do that but Id paddle jump cancel into down pan into jerry rocket into up Arial and no jerry shot

[cerulean cliff]

We're out of jump cancels but not outta options

[subtle lotus]

Paddle into jerry shot its not consistent on good di

But its an good combo ngl

Its not true but it's cool

[subtle lotus]

Not an true combo kill confirm bc di exist but it's so cool

You just need to read the di then jerry shot down angle and confirm

But remember that your opponent can mix the di

So, sometimes you need to reverse jerry shot

[cyan whale]

Dude it’s literally guaranteed on the vast majority of the cast

[subtle lotus]

Its not guaranteed

[raven onyx]

🍿

[cyan whale]

Paddle into down angled Jerry shot is guaranteed

[subtle lotus]

If your character has small or medium hitbox

You can di mix

And you won't get hit by the jerry shot

[cyan whale]

It just sounds like you need to lab it more

[subtle lotus]

I alr khow how to do it

It works most of the time

But I think your opponent don't khow how to mix di

Its an mix

[cyan whale]

The guy I was playing against was delaying Jerry shot by a split second to let me fall slightly lower to make it 100% consistent

[subtle lotus]

You can get them anyway if you read it

[subtle lotus]

Its not 100% consistent theres an mix

Most of the time you will get it

[cyan whale]

Alright man whatever you say

[subtle lotus]

Only like grandmasters khow how to tech it

Most of the time its an 100%

[cyan whale]

I didn’t get out of it once regardless of my DI while mashing dodge

[subtle lotus]

That's what your doing bad

It seems like you dont play smth else that isn't Mvs on platform figthers

[cyan whale]

Jumping out didn’t work either

[subtle lotus]

The mix di exist in every platform figther

[cyan whale]

Dude I played and still play Smash competitively

[subtle lotus]

So idk how you dont khow the di mix

[cyan whale]

Stop trying to assume I’m some noob who has never played a platform fighter before MVS

[subtle lotus]

I think you dont play meele

Its more smash ultimate

You dont need an di mix on smash ultimate

In meele theres some with falco and fox up throw

And bowser throw chain

[cyan whale]

Falco up throw you can SDI the lasers

[subtle lotus]

I dont think an mvs player would mix like that the di

[cyan whale]

There is no SDI in MVS

[subtle lotus]

So its like an 99/100

[subtle lotus]

You can change the direction of the di

Bc its an multihit

Paddle

So when the T&J it's delaying the jerry shot

You mix then go back of tom

He won't hit you bc jerry shot cant be reverse

But yeah on low percents it's 100% true

[cyan whale]

Ok but that doesn’t work because Jerry still clips your feet

[subtle lotus]

On every character

[subtle lotus]

It works

On higher percents

Like 40-60

[cyan whale]

Well why would you go for it at high percents?

[subtle lotus]

Its good at every percent if your opponent don't di correctly

[cyan whale]

Well a lot of things are sure

[subtle lotus]

Ensure?

Well on low percents almost everything it's true

Atleast you got the possibility to escape and punish

[cyan whale]

At higher percents, can’t you just do full paddle into aerial up special which covers all possible DI on the last hit?

[subtle lotus]

Or if the T&J don't read your di while your in the paddle

You can punish them anyway

[subtle lotus]

Nope

Not enough hitstun to combo into up special

[cyan whale]

On DI in I know there is

[subtle lotus]

Well in bad di

Theres a lot of routes

And even inf

With some characters

[cyan whale]

Well sure that’s like saying people who tech poorly can be infinited

[subtle lotus]

Yeah lol

That's why they remove the finn 0td

Bc people didn't khow what di is

[cyan whale]

The only time I can see it possible to escape paddle follow ups is if you overuse paddle to the point where it’s really stale

Staling moves does in fact affect their hitstun

[subtle lotus]

Paddle into jerry its not good to use it on high percents

Maybe paddle into racket in some di's

[cyan whale]

Personally, I just do paddle into dodge jump uair

And react to their DI

People seem to forget that you can react to DI and tech options in this game

[subtle lotus]

I think paddle into up air combos on some di's

If his di'ing away just do an side air

[cyan whale]

If they’re at ledge yeah I will

But sair doesn’t kill from center stage

[subtle lotus]

Fr

[cyan whale]

So I’ll dodge jump uair instead

[subtle lotus]

Mvs its an game full of beginners on this genre

[cyan whale]

Oh I’m aware

[subtle lotus]

And they actually do nerfs bc of the casual complains

They never listen to the competitive community

[cyan whale]

Yeah I do think they’re going a little too nerf heavy with the balance patches

[subtle lotus]

Like the game now it's poorly balanced

[cyan whale]

While I do agree some characters are too good, I’d rather them buff the weaker characters

[subtle lotus]

Buffing Batman and Nerfing T&J was lit the goofiest moment ever on an fighting game

[cyan whale]

It’s technically the most balanced it’s ever been

But like some characters are still a clear problem

[subtle lotus]

And that sounds horrible

[cyan whale]

Batman is the easiest example and he’s top 1 imo

[subtle lotus]

His not top 1

Shaggy its top 1

Then batman its top 2

[cyan whale]

Batman is definitely better

[subtle lotus]

No

You clearly didn't fought an good shaggy this patch

His better than batman

[cyan whale]

He kills at the same percents, is faster, has batterang to cover space, has loops that don’t ground bounce, and every combo applies 2-3 stacks of weaken

Shaggy is 2nd best

[subtle lotus]

Batman got no loop its the first one

Batman and shaggy kill power its not the same

Shaggy has more and batman kill power got nerfed

[cyan whale]

Jab jab dtilt batterang (on cooldown) and repeat

[subtle lotus]

Not true

Dodgeable

[cyan whale]

Yes it is lmao

[subtle lotus]

Its not

You can just dodge it

[cyan whale]

You literally can’t

[subtle lotus]

You can

Also you can orient your di to groundbounce

So you'll tech bounce

[cyan whale]

And he still gets a follow up

[subtle lotus]

Bro he got no inf

Its dodgeable

[cyan whale]

At minimum he gets 2 of those strings

[subtle lotus]

Maybe your di'ing wrong

He got 2 strings minimum that's true

[cyan whale]

Not to mention jab jab up attack dodge jump uair kills at like 50

[subtle lotus]

The character its insane

But im really mad WW was untouched

That's so goofy

They obviously main Wonder Woman

[cyan whale]

Yeah the top 4 currently imo is Batman, Shaggy, Joker, WW

[subtle lotus]

I think Stripe its better than Joker right now

Or agent smith

[cyan whale]

Stripe is good but not better than Joker

[subtle lotus]

Ofc he is

[cyan whale]

Smith is definitely a contender for top 5

[subtle lotus]

Smith and stripe are basically at the same kv

Got to be top tiers

[cyan whale]

People act like just because Joker jab got a range nerf, he’s bad now

[subtle lotus]

Stripe got an real true 0td on every di with cancel dynamite explosion

[subtle lotus]

He got various nerfs

[cyan whale]

It’s really really situational

[subtle lotus]

Stripe its better than him

[cyan whale]

You can just camp out dynamite

[subtle lotus]

You can just rush down with the giant down air

Or leave an chainsaw on an platform

And you can up tilt down air all the time you want

[cyan whale]

Chainsaw isn’t that good of a move

[subtle lotus]

Get early kills with dash attacks then gunshot

[cyan whale]

For recovery it’s good

[subtle lotus]

He got an reverse gun mix up

[cyan whale]

Because it’s big

[subtle lotus]

Stripe got everything bro

[cyan whale]

He’s always had this

[subtle lotus]

And he deals weakness

[cyan whale]

Stripe’s frame data is on the slow side

[subtle lotus]

It doesn't matter

[cyan whale]

That’s his main weakness

[subtle lotus]

When the character got so powerfull hitbox

And kill confirms

[cyan whale]

He can get a rushed down by people with better frame data

[subtle lotus]

He cant get rush at all

He got anti air

Some zoning for the platform

Dynamite as an combo breaker

Skate to clear projectiles

Big khockbacks

[cyan whale]

If you’re smart, you will stop your combo and let him hurt himself with dynamite

[subtle lotus]

Di mix up with reverse gun to kill you earlier

[cyan whale]

Ok but it’s really slow and kinda sucks

Skateboard is not a good move

[subtle lotus]

But its ok

Stripe its really good

[cyan whale]

No you can punish skateboard almost every time

[subtle lotus]

Theres no character doing robbery stuff like him

[cyan whale]

It has a ton of whiff lag

[subtle lotus]

Its like shaggy

And smith

[subtle lotus]

You won't use those moves that often

The down air its an real problem

[cyan whale]

I hope you realize there are a lot of characters with stock stealing combos and attacks

[subtle lotus]

Ik

[cyan whale]

I died at 30 on Cromulons to Superman up special uair

[subtle lotus]

The game is not balanced

[cyan whale]

Because he had last stand

[subtle lotus]

Dang

Well gtg

[cyan whale]

Alright

[subtle lotus]

Waiting for WW nerfs

[cyan whale]

You’ll be dead before that happens lol

[dusty nova]

ppl who think harly is bad need to stop huffing gas

Op

[cerulean cliff]

So while I think Joker is still good, his nerfs definitely exposed his playerbase. I dont see him at all anymore lmao

Top 4 I dunno though

[cyan whale]

People see one nerf and then instantly drop the character

Shaggy could be bottom 1 and I’d still play him because he’s my favorite Scooby Doo character

Oh wait I forgot about Arya. She’s also in the top 5, so I guess my top 5 is Batman, Shaggy, Joker, Wonder Woman, and Arya

[cerulean cliff]

I'd put Jack over Joker honestly

[cyan whale]

Nah with how much easier he is to whiff punish, he’s definitely not top 5

[cerulean cliff]

His side special is a little more whiff punishable yes

[cyan whale]

The majority of the cast is like either high or top tier I should say

[cerulean cliff]

The rest of his kit not as much

[cyan whale]

So like the difference between 5th and 10th isn’t really that far

The only genuinely bad characters rn in 1v1 are Velma and Jake

[cerulean cliff]

They also fixed the issue of his air down special not connecting depending on proximity

So its just a way better edgeguard tool and combo ender

[cyan whale]

And like they’re a lot better than they were at relaunch

[cyan whale]

Oh yeah air down special is crazy good

But like he still kinda just fishes for jab

Which makes him very predictable

[cerulean cliff]

His jab is still very good

[cyan whale]

It is but it’s not unpunishable

[cerulean cliff]

It anti airs people up close for no reason lmao

The problem is jab 1 is still mashable into jab 2 on whiff which can be dodge cancelled

[cyan whale]

Jab 2 is pretty bad on whiff tho

Just wait for jab 2 and punish

And jab 1 has slow startup

Like it’s got a ton of range

[cerulean cliff]

The good Jacks will start using more nair in neutral anyway

[cyan whale]

But it’s slow

[cyan whale]

True but nair isn’t really as rewarding as the move looks

You basically just get nair uair

Like as long as you DI up, even with the changes you’ll never get ground bounced by any of Jack’s combos

Which kills his combo damage

I’ve been seeing way more Jack players go for jab jab IAD uair into dodge read instead

Jack is way better in 2v2 imo

He’s easily a top tier there

[cerulean cliff]

As god intended

[cyan whale]

Big hitboxes

Lots of base knockback

He gets the freest team combos and edgeguards

[cerulean cliff]

And then there's Banana guard in 2's

[cyan whale]

Banana Guard is low key slept on

The nair buff is actually insane

[cerulean cliff]

Still proving why old attack decay needs to exist

[cyan whale]

He has so much drift with nair

[trim zealot]

For anybody interested in the results of my labbing the Jerry shot > rocket combo, for midweights like shaggy (as long as they can be hit with paddle into Jerry shot) the combo starts at about 15-20%. It does about 38% depending on your perks, and can start killing as early as ~45% with bad DI. With good DI, it will probably start killing in the 60-70s.

[clever folio]

Can anyone please tell me how to fight this character I only struggle against him idk what to even do the whole match I can't even approach or attack him

[keen swan]

Wait for him to make a mistake (Ex:Throws Jerry out too far, throws out a move with long whiff punish) then pressure him and rush him down

Since you main PPG Finn and Superman I’ll explain my personal idea for their best approaches

For PPG I’d say either side special, or an aerial approach with nair. Note that Bubbles can also reflect projectiles with her neutral special, scream

For Finn, side special works on all of T&J’s projectiles besides Jerry. Try to outspace him and pressure them into a corner with moves like jab and up tilt. You can also close the distance with aerial side special, as it locks onto projectiles and brings you right up in their face

For Superman, ice breath nullifies any projectiles besides maybe Jerry that they can throw out, just dodge through Jerry shot and probably do like an armor move or jab

Hope that helps 👍

[clever folio]

Ty, I'll try all of this

[dusty nova]

Real

[dusty nova]

Boi do I not like batman

Pre buff batman was a teddy bear id love to hold compared to the current top teir that needed buffs for some reason alr high teir

Meanwhile as they craft whole new moves for characters tnj looses things and gains nothin for 2 patches ☕️

Why not buff or change velma or banana guard and make em fun and skilled closer in power to the rest of the roster rather then busted bad and or spammy

We are cooked

[acoustic belfry]

Just made it in a game, thank you, and there is another combo that is still alive, and yes I stole it from void(Dair, Jerry shot downwards)

[naive pebble]

yay more people are able to do it now. Gonna be funny seeing the defenders of this garbage pretending it doesn't exist now lol

[acoustic belfry]

@naive pebble is your main Jason?

[acoustic belfry]

Well, tbh it's a bit harder than the earlier combo that got nerfed, but it's working and I'm getting wins, thank you bro 👍🏻

Guys, do you agree that TnJ were the best mage before the nerf?

[lost violet]

Definitely one of the best

With a higher skill ceiling

[sturdy yarrow]

Have you tried not getting your tech read ?

[cerulean cliff]

Evidently not

[trim zealot]

Most of our combo variations got removed with the paddle change. If you mean to say the “loops” that Jason insists are true, they are not. All the opponent needs to do is mix up where they tech roll.

[dusty nova]

Yrr

[naive pebble]

Have you tried reading? I said that the tech can be covered both ways on reaction about 100 times scrub.

[acoustic belfry]

Guys, try to listen to Jason, I actually managed to do what he said

[cyan whale]

It’s not worth arguing over. People who haven’t played a lot of platform fighters aren’t familiar with reaction tech chases

[trim zealot]

Or maybe you’re just too predictable with your techs. I’ll lab this to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I highly doubt it’s 100 true%.

[trim zealot]

Even if it is, it should only work on Jason and Iron giant, who are both so large they’re balanced around their size anyway.

[naive pebble]

you dunno what you are talking about lol

[naive pebble]

it's not a difficult rtc tho

anyone can do it even people with slow reactions

[cyan whale]

I know

I’m agreeing with you

[naive pebble]

oh my b dude I get what you mean now

[subtle lotus]

The tech system on this game should be manual

As always

Its trash and way to reactable

This game should take notes from ultimate

On tech

And make the game faster

So the campy gameplay its gone on the way

[drifting pollen]

i feel so weak what combos are still their for damage?

[raven onyx]

Our Jump Branch got removed so our combos are nearly gone bc people could not punish a paddle or see the tech mechanic is bad

[drifting pollen]

yeah i been struggling in 1's since all the nerfs its rough getting damage or killing in general

i might just change fighters to who knows what

[raven onyx]

Like mechally not the mechanic itself

Bc its automatic

Leading people to abuse that to extend combos

[dusty nova]

Your not wrong he is light and lacks the damage to kill at this point

[hollow flax]

Well it’s definitely a character dependent thing on how effective they were at tech chasing cause with Lebron for example you have to actually read the movement because his moves are slow. With Tom the paddle is so big and fast it doesn’t even matter where you go sometimes. So I think they should’ve nerfed its ability to tech chase super well rather than nerf the combos

[raven onyx]

Not our fault the tech mechanic is automatic

[hollow flax]

I don’t think it being automatic really matters if paddle is big enough and fast enough to cover all options

[cerulean cliff]

It kind of does because you can't delay tech

If there's only one timing to account for then its going to be easier for everyone across the board

There's no "mixup"

No one's talking about Stripe has an easier tech loop with his gun

Honestly this could be solved if they just put the old attack decay from beta back in

[hollow flax]

I mean even so you could only delay it so much and at that point you can easily react with paddle because as I said it is fast and big hitbox

Now that’s not to say I like the current tech system. I think they should increase roll distance on it and give more incentive for neutral teching.

[cerulean cliff]

Its not so much that its fast, its just active for a long time

Its still slower than all jabs in the game

[pure hedge]

Hitboxes on this game aren’t even consistent tbf

[hollow flax]

it is still relatively fast enough to catch a tech

[cerulean cliff]

Smash Ultimate 🤝 Multiversus

Multihits dropping for NO reason

Now I think if teching gave you like a "refund" on dodge meter so you could escape follow ups easier that might also be good

[hollow flax]

I mean I’d imagine it’s a mix of positioning and DI that effects whether the move works or not. I feel a simple solution would be to have the initial hit scoop the enemy into a specific position so the rest hit but what do I know?

[drifting pier]

SCUM

[hollow flax]

Maybe as a reward for timing the landing on the tech if you do a tech in place you recover immediately to be able to act. This can allow reversals and or just being able to escape the combo

[cerulean cliff]

PPG players in shambles right now

[hollow flax]

Do their multihits not work? I thought they did.

[cerulean cliff]

I've played them quite a bit, you'd be surprised how many times people fall out of up tilt and nair

And then they nerfed nair this patch so you can't rise with it on hit anymore

Just making their neutral that much worse

[hollow flax]

When I play against them I never fall out of those. Though I guess that’s cause I play Lebron

[trim zealot]

Ironically T&J get a lot of complaints about having a scoop for paddle, even thought it’s just before the first hit.

[hollow flax]

I think it’s more the scoop is in front of him and the move lasts so long

[trim zealot]

That’s the scoop I was talking about. It doesn’t linger, so I don’t see the problem. There’s a reason why most up attacks have some sort of hitbox in front of them. They would feel pretty bad to use if they didn’t scoop. The move lasting long felt like a downside back when we had more combos from it, since there’s a larger punish window if we miss.

Keep in mind we can only cancel the move if it hits the opponent, if we miss we have to go through the whole move. It gets worse if we charge it, since it has more hits we cannot cancel.

The issue I notice most is that a lot of people seem to think it’s a good idea to challenge the move from the air, even when that’s the only place the hitbox covers.

[cerulean cliff]

Its a walking anti-air

I catch so many bad landings/dodges with it

[subtle lotus]

No, it's fine as an di read tool

[subtle lotus]

They do, but you need to position yourself on the middle while you read their di

Then delay jerry shot

And realese

Paddle works reading di since always

That's why you can move with paddle

If you hold paddle and stand at the same position

If your opponent its di'ing away he will escape

That's why you have the position to move and turn around

To cover di's and reada

Reads

And if you fail your opponent escapes then you get punished on the whiff frames

[trim zealot]

The day should come naturally. The difference I notice doing both variations is that in order to “delay” it, I don’t buffer the Jerry shot. Ironically, it’s more consistent if you try to do that combo on reaction.

[hollow flax]

I was talking about PPG not Tom

[subtle lotus]

Oh ok

[sharp plaza]

When are they going to nerf TnJ dair holy

I'm pretty sure it's the dair with the best disjoint in ALL the game

[cerulean cliff]

Samurai Jack is right there but the frying pan is pretty darn close

Also WW and Arya post buff

[sharp plaza]

The arya one is just fast, she can't hit you while standing on ledge

Like sj and TnJ is just safe af

[raven onyx]

Can people stop complaining about TnJ FOR 5 MINUTES

[cerulean cliff]

WW's I'd argue is worse just because "lul I edgeguard with armor, cry about it"

[sharp plaza]

Sorry he does way too much dmg and people still wants him to kill with one jab lol

But idk man, you were the one saying Bugs is weak and needs Buff rn lol

[cerulean cliff]

What does their dair in edgeguarding have to do with damage output

[raven onyx]

i meant his normals

[sharp plaza]

That people downplay TnJ so much and I'm tired of that lol

[cerulean cliff]

Bugs' grounded normals might be worse than Tom's I can't lie

[sharp plaza]

They find weakness on the character where he doesn't get one

Yeah he just has the worst disadvantage in the game without Jerry but that's all

[raven onyx]

We got our jump branch removed bc of yall

Couldnt punish 1 move

[cerulean cliff]

You said dair should be nerfed because of its disjoint, even though swordies (and Harley) exist

Then pivoted to damage

Like are we complaining just to complain here

[raven onyx]

Im starting to think people play top tiers and attack T&J bc they cant punish at all

[sharp plaza]

And it doesn't matter cuz guess what? You still can aim jerry down and get the same thing lol

[cerulean cliff]

Marvin's is more disjointed too, its straight up a laser

[sharp plaza]

Good point with Harley still, Tom gets so much from dair on ledge, and it kills better than Harley dair unless you are just hugging the wall

[raven onyx]

Yall took combos away bc PEOPLE CANT PUNISH ONE MOVE.

IT FEELS AWFUL TO PLAY TNJ NOW

[sharp plaza]

Lying

He feels better unless you want to do the same boring loop

Air momentum really is good to dodge attack dair dodge attack jerry shot

That's what potuz is doing

[raven onyx]

we didnt do that tbh

[sharp plaza]

I'm not even talk about hardcorefox

You act like they did TnJ what they did to Jake

[cerulean cliff]

Do you play the character at all

[raven onyx]

IK JAKE GOT GUTTED

[cerulean cliff]

How many hours you got on him

[sharp plaza]

Nah only on beta but I have lab to know how punishable are some moves and lemme tell you, dair needs a hitbox change

[cerulean cliff]

Beta TnJ is not even close to this one

Please keep that same logic for swordies

[sharp plaza]

I don't like playing tom on release since it's slower and you depend so much on paddle and jerry shot, I just don't like that

But I literally play Rick, I don't even think I'd have a problem playing as him lol

[raven onyx]

You needed it the beta aswell so

[cerulean cliff]

Paddle is used so often now because our jab is so much worse than beta

[lost violet]

Right there is when you lost any credibility

[sharp plaza]

Oh yeah tell me the dair of TnJ is balanced lol

[lost violet]

Look at literally anyone else and ask again

[raven onyx]

How can people not saying about TnJ but ignore the actual threats to the game

[lost violet]

Because they play the actual threats and suck at doing it

[raven onyx]

No wonder ive been bullying WW

[sharp plaza]

I don't play a threat but go on...
Like ur character didn't make the devs add a whole new mechanic so you can't loop with paddle jerry shot yeh

I don't even say TnJ is crazy broken

But DAIR from TnJ IT'S crazy broken

By far the best one in the game

There's only like 2 characters who has a dair as good as him

[raven onyx]

It literally was added to stop loops

Not bc of us

[lost violet]

Love how you said that like we had the only character with loops

[sharp plaza]

It was Superman and TnJ, don't tell me TnJ wasn't a big part, or you don't know how many players posted about hardcorefox doing a true 0-70 into them?

[lost violet]

Wow, news flash. A dude good at the game does a true combo. What an unusual concept

[sharp plaza]

That's not even a combo that was straight up a loop and you didn't answer anything with that lol

If you call that a loop then I guess Shaggy in the beta had the best loop of dair down tilt dair repeat

[lost violet]

Ok here’s an actual answer. You singled out those two when Bugs and Harley were right there. We weren’t the only ones with loops, just the ones you chose to put all the blame on

[trim zealot]

Most characters who had loops, at any point in time, had loops as a result of ground bounces. T&J weren’t the only ones, and other characters were arguably more problematic before getting lesser nerfs. Harley, shaggy, iron giant, LeBron, etc. all got more “precise” nerfs just to stop loops, no more damage done. In the cases where damage was done, X character would’ve gotten compensation buffs. None of that happened this patch to T&J, we lost most of our combos, with no compensation. We might be “fine” as far as viability goes, but on the condition where we play more passively because our hits mean less. It doesn’t feel good to play as or against.

I’m all for overpowered loops being removed, but this latest nerf had way too much collateral damage.

[raven onyx]

But we still get hate 😕

[trim zealot]

That’s a player base issue that PFG doesn’t want to call anyone out on. If you keep on getting hit by, or dying to the same things, that’s on the player for not noticing a pattern and learning from their mistakes. Unfortunately it also seems that PFG are listening to these same people for game balance feedback.

I’m not saying that some of said feedback is completely invalid, but just because the players who cry to PFG after losing to a character they aren’t used to are the most vocal, doesn’t mean you should actually use that feedback.

In short, to anyone who comes running into this channel because you got wiped by a Tom, skill issue.

[lost violet]

They need a scapegoat for being trash at the game and refusing to learn

[hollow flax]

Same thing happened to lebron. They removed his loop and got basically nothing to compensate

Until like 2 patches later I guess

[raven onyx]

That was prob done with no DI

[hollow flax]

Yeah it can be DI out of too unless your a big body.

Sometimes it couldn’t loop because nb sair doesn’t consistently confirm into jab

[raven onyx]

Who would walk into that...

[trim zealot]

Exactly my thoughts when I saw that loop.

You already get comboed like crazy without the loop when hit by that move.

Standing under his ball is suicide.

[plush adder]

whos the potuz guy??

anyone know his @ ?

[lost violet]

No. Why?

[sharp plaza]

He's on another server

[plush adder]

dont reply then

[plush adder]

alr

[cerulean cliff]

There's sometimes I'm playing to do dailies and I'm like, "okay I can still make the character work"

Then I get run over by Batman and I'm like "nah, its oooover"

[naive pebble]

Please remove the paddle into jerry shot loop. 😑

[lost violet]

Please learn to get out of it instead of complaining and trying to get him nerfed more than he already is 😑

[cyan whale]

He’s Jason…

He can’t get out

[naive pebble]

Nor can Shaggy or Samurai Jack

[dusty nova]

Ion know mannnn

Wonderwomen casually killing at 100 from any point of the map-stage with her entire moveset fr some reason

None Exsistent brian cells

[raven onyx]

But never nerf her

[dusty nova]

Real

[trim zealot]

I labbed it out on Jason and those 2. It is not true. tech roll away from where Jerry is after being shot, and we’re forced to finish the “loop”.

[keen swan]

Just because some character are more braindead doesn’t mean other characters don’t need tweaks

There’s different types of braindead with this game:The first braindead is where almost all the cast falls under:Most characters fall under do this one method, do it better than the other person does there’s and win. Then there’s Shaggy WW and Banana Guard, who falls under throw out your aerials and tilts, an occasional special move, win

[trim zealot]

I don’t think there’s much of an issue with “brain dead” play so much as some characters being treated like having super safe moves are fine, while the devs actively try to push whiff punishing on other, mostly weaker, characters. I’m not sure whether the devs want whiff punishing to be viable across the board, or just against some characters. The one exception to this rule I notice is Finn, who’s mobility allows relative safety, while providing a lingering and combo starting disjoint. With 2 layers of safety to most moves, he has high reward but low risk for hitting/whiffing an attack. I don’t inherently have an issue with that being in the game, just an issue with not allowing other characters similar options. Tom’s paddle got nerfed (mostly) because we had a lingering combo starting disjoint, given when we had loops, the reward was crazy, but that was removed, still, paddle got nerfed even more afterward. Some balancing decisions are inconsistent. Allowing Batman, WW, and Arya to run the top of tier lists while solid A-B tiers get nerfed down to C-D tier. I would be fine if every character got buffed to S tier level, but PFG has always opted to nerf instead.

[dusty nova]

The rabbit why dose the rabbit best me so I can fight Majority roster but the rabbit goofy invincibility hole 4 projectile rabbit

[raven onyx]

Not our fault you keep running to them

[dusty nova]

Bugs is mean

[trim zealot]

What does this mean?

[raven onyx]

Basically just means he loses to Bugs

[dusty nova]

It means bugs is good counter to me and kinda just tnj

[raven onyx]

All i want for Bugs is better grounded normals or correct me or am i wrong

[trim zealot]

I deny the T&J claim, but struggling in a MU is understandable.

Maybe I’m just better with Tom, specifically against bugs though.

What are you struggling against specifically (moves, projeciles, etc.)?

[lost violet]

I’d say Bugs and Tom are even. Slight edge to Tnj if I’m biased

[raven onyx]

Bugs does have better kill power than TnJ tho

[dusty nova]

A good bugs will counter all of toms moves His rocket eats all of his tennis balls and dynamite x3 and his rabbit hole can disable toms cheese add those things into a bugs with a couple of remaining brian cells and a bunch of up airs and you got a tom counter

[trim zealot]

The best I can tell you with rocket is to wait it out, or wait til it gets close, then dodge past it. If timed well, you’ll avoid any of its hitbox. Most Bugs’ Will run along the stage (or jump) with the rocket, so moving past it resets neutral 9/10. as for his tunnel, just wait it out. The amount of times I’ve gotten punished for trying to contend with it is ridiculous. If you really have no other choice, anticipate Bugs traveling through one end to the other, it’s difficult, but possible to punish with down air or Jerry shot.

You can also use dynamite to temporarily shut down one side of the tunnel.

I’m surprised safe was nowhere in your complaints, that’s the move most people struggle against.

[raven onyx]

Its hella fragile so

[trim zealot]

I know, but just having a lingering projectile that Bugs can choose to send flying near anywhere, almost instantly, trips people up often. I’m not complaining about it anymore though.

I don’t have any issues against it.

[raven onyx]

Ik hes still getting hate aswell

[dusty nova]

I hate when I die at 5% to a down safe off stage but nah that's not the issue

[raven onyx]

You know you can dodge it

[dusty nova]

Yeah if ya time it right

[trim zealot]

Best counterplay is to predict when Bugs is going to run straight towards the safe, similar to punishing Tom for attempting to recover Jerry.

Just intercept it.

[dusty nova]

I've been pulled into the void by toms foot hairs after dodging through a down ward safe

Tho I don't rlly care about the safe bugs is a sus character fr me

[raven onyx]

💀

[trim zealot]

I think most players have been there.

Especially back in beta.

[dusty nova]

Yea

[naive pebble]

You're just lying or doing it wrong because that is not true at all.

The loop continues because tom can cover your tech roll in either direction on reaction (easily btw) because he moves with his paddle.

[dusty nova]

Tom can't kill anymore bro 1 kill confirm dosent carry

The dc characters and better example jason dosent die after getting sent flying at 160 8 times and taunts like he ain't just fat

Like I didn't s3nd bro to the blast zone 5 times before he hits me with a single teleport kill confirm at 80%

I don't even dislike jason

[trim zealot]

Incorrect. The combo is forced to end when you tech roll away from Jerry (the mouse) when seperated from Tom (the cat and player) because in order to continue the combo, Tom will need to avoid retrieving Jerry, this means that they cannot use Jerry shot again. I know how to lab, and I am not lying.

When Jerry is to the left, and you are to the right, the only way to continue hitting you is to avoid Jerry.

I can send a video tomorrow if you still don’t understand.

[open crypt]

but steven and his bubble spam
nah lets keep it

[naive pebble]

Ok so what you're doing wrong is you're not firing Jerry at the most diagonally keyword downward angle as possible because if you were doing that you would realise you can pick up Jerry straight away and then walk whatever direction you want.

I don't need to see a video of you doing it wrong, I seen it work like 30 times consistently while playing against tom and jerry and I have held every direction I possibly can on the stick to try get away from it.

Unless you've discovered a 9th direction I could try then I'd just stop defending this crap.

If this gets removed I'll be happy to see tom get buffed in ways that are actually cool rather than him being a character who does the loop over and over.

[raven onyx]

Id admit the looping has to go but doesnt mean remove the jump branch

[cerulean cliff]

It's okay to have a MU you personally struggle with, I don't want to be the one to tell you this but you're continuously asking for something that's out of our hands frankly

[naive pebble]

it's not about struggling with a mu it's about seeing something in the game that's obviously a problem and pointing it out.

[cerulean cliff]

I don't like that Jason's command grab being armored now gives him an IAD neutral skip but I'm not yapping in the Jason channel about it for over a week straight

[naive pebble]

I think if you actually saw how the loop looks you'd agree it's a problem but I have a feeling you've not been on the receiving end of someone who knows how to loop

[cerulean cliff]

Or its a big body problem specifically

[naive pebble]

every character has an armour breaker and you can use that to hit Jason when he does that move

[cerulean cliff]

You are not reacting to that in neutral

[naive pebble]

Are shaggy or Samurai jack big body?

[cerulean cliff]

Have you seen Jack's character model

Like actually

[naive pebble]

To Jason neutral B? hello?

[cerulean cliff]

I said IAD for a reason

[naive pebble]

what's IAD mean?

[cerulean cliff]

Instant air dash

It goes as far (for some characters even farther) than dash jabs

[naive pebble]

Dude you position yourself in a way so you're out of his threat range

[cerulean cliff]

Its still an option he has I don't agree with

[naive pebble]

Taz has a significant bigger threat range than Jason that's even more difficult to contest (I think Taz needs nerfs tbh tho tbf)

[cerulean cliff]

And I know how this works, he's my second most played character since release after Tom

But anyway

What good is it doing you bringing up the same topic here, to nobody who has direct control over it

[naive pebble]

I don't know how anyone can think Jason getting 1 strong hit pretty easily is more broken than a loop that's a free 0 to death on a lot of characters in the game making their MUs pretty much 9-1 in Tom's favour.

[cerulean cliff]

Absolutely false but continue

And let's not pretend Jason Jab 2 > side special isnt the most braindead kill confirm in the game

[naive pebble]

It's not false. If I have a 0 to death that's easy I should win the MU

Jason can't take you from 0 to death with a move that's easy to land tho dude.

Tom can and when he does it feels unfair and unfun.

[cerulean cliff]

I swear to you

If this 0 to death were really THAT easy to get

Would TnJ not be the #1 in the game instead of the likes of Batman

[naive pebble]

It's literally happened to me like 30 times I just concede VS Tom and Jerry nowadays

T and J can't do it to literally everyone that's the only reason he's not number 1

[cerulean cliff]

Therefore its a MU diff

The actual universal loop he had is gone, anything after is MU dependent

[naive pebble]

So you deadass think an infinite loop is cool as long as it doesn't happen to literally everyone. come on mannn

bruh

[cerulean cliff]

I'm not advocating for cheese strats

But this is a VERY cheesy ass game at the end of the day

[naive pebble]

Then why do you have a problem with me wanting it removed?

[cerulean cliff]

My problem is you're complaining/venting about it to the players here who have, and I need you to follow me on this one: no direct control over balancing

Nobody was thinking about it here until you brought it up for the umpteenth time

[naive pebble]

The devs listen to the community and the official discord is a major part of the community.

I'm not asking you personally to go fix this issue but I am making the community aware of it and therefore the devs will find out too.

[cerulean cliff]

There is a literal direct support line you can send that to

Record video and send it to them

And pray they adjust accordingly

[naive pebble]

The devs check the discord and keep in touch with the community there's no reason to do all that

[cerulean cliff]

So you're lazy and just wanna complain, got it

[naive pebble]

Very convincing

[cerulean cliff]

Post it on twitter and tag them, its not that hard

[naive pebble]

You've definitely changed my mind with that argument lol

[naive pebble]

I already did btw

[cerulean cliff]

Then if its not gone in the next patch, just do it again

[naive pebble]

For such a lazy person I do seem to be talking about this issue quite a lot lol

[cerulean cliff]

There are bigger problem characters but because you presumably main a character that loses to ours, TnJ is enemy #1

[naive pebble]

4 of like 6 characters I play get looped so it os rather annoying

[cerulean cliff]

I'd personally assess ways to never let that happen to me if I were in your shoes

[naive pebble]

I bet if Shaggy could infinitely jab tom specifically you would complain. Then when you see people say it's a MU diff you'd probably see how dumb that argument is.

[cerulean cliff]

He could on release and it got taken out already

Jab 2 dash chains were insane

But that worked on everyone

[naive pebble]

You have to put yourself in positions that tom can easily kill you for being in such as at the ledge or on plats. Your choice is to die quickly or die a slowly. You can't actually win.

[naive pebble]

And why do you think they removed something like that? 🙂

[cerulean cliff]

Tom does not kill if he catches you on a plat, what

[naive pebble]

not instantly. but eventually he will get enough percent to kill with up air

[cerulean cliff]

That's not the same thing as a proposed loop

Come on now

That's the same energy as "if Jason jabs me at ledge at 30, I'm dead"

[naive pebble]

Dude your arguments are actually awful I'm so glad you don't design this game it would suck ass.

[cerulean cliff]

And you're whining about losing MUs and want the character nerfed even more so you can win easily

[naive pebble]

You want me to play in a way that's not fun or even effective just so you can keep a bs loop. Stop the cope already

[cerulean cliff]

We have to play keepaway now and zone optimally because our close quarters game is ass now

Still no working jab, which is something I've personally had gripes with since the game relaunched

[naive pebble]

meanwhile you're out here defending a strat that's a reason people have to play like that. Wake up homie.

[cerulean cliff]

Offer a solution then

Since you know the character so well

[naive pebble]

very strict Side b lock out after paddle. Easy

[cerulean cliff]

Side B is fishing rod

You dont know anything do you

[naive pebble]

neutral b

I got a word wrong wow

[cerulean cliff]

But okay, Jerryshot after paddle gone, alright

What's the compensation

The floor is yours

[naive pebble]

paddle does more damage

[cerulean cliff]

And theeeen?

[naive pebble]

that's all you need. Tom is already top tier you don't need to be fully fully carried.

[cerulean cliff]

You have to realize, and I know you probably dont know this, but TnJ functionally have no grounded combo starters with your proposed change

[naive pebble]

you carried enough bro

[cerulean cliff]

Really

[naive pebble]

yep

[cerulean cliff]

Okay

Run the 1s then

Reverse main

[naive pebble]

I'm not home rn

[cerulean cliff]

It is so easy to just say carried when you dont know a thing

[naive pebble]

you're asking to be cooked tho. the loop works against my main and I can do the loop

[cerulean cliff]

If you're that confident then it'll be free eats for you

[naive pebble]

It will be.

dm your ign

[cerulean cliff]

SonicfiendFGC

[naive pebble]

ready?

[raven onyx]

Hows it going with 1v1

[trim zealot]

I was angling Jerry down.

I know how to combo with this character, I’ve been doing it way longer than you.

I wouldn’t tell you that you’re doing Jason combos wrong.

Tom’s paddle > Jerry shot isn’t an infinite, even against Jason.

It hasn’t been since the auto tech change.

Even before that it wasn’t infinite, just really long loops.

If you really want this supposed “infinite” gone, then tell the devs to add back in the old attack decay instead of complaining about Tom’s best combo move.

[naive pebble]

he's too busy

[naive pebble]

attack decay is still in the game btw, shows how much u know.

[trim zealot]

Have you not noticed how much weaker it is than in beta?

The beta attack decay would stop loops on their tracks, just like before.

[raven onyx]

You cry about a cat and mouse who swings a paddle up

[naive pebble]

You're in a discord about the same game and have a cartoon pfp just like me so idk. Pot calling the kettle black

[trim zealot]

“Pot calling the kettle black”

Is that mistyped or an actual saying?

[naive pebble]

actual saying

[trim zealot]

What’s wrong with black kettles?

I don’t get what the saying is supposed to mean.

[naive pebble]

It basically means you're being a hypocrite

[raven onyx]

What does that supposed to mean

[naive pebble]

.

[trim zealot]

It’s not hypocritical when Looney isn’t complaining about a matchup they struggle in.

[raven onyx]

Bc i know how to deal with it

[naive pebble]

the loop doesn't work on tom

[trim zealot]

When I lose I don’t jump into X character’s discord channel and rant about how much I hate X move or combo.

But that’s all you do.

[raven onyx]

Like can yall focus on the actual threats like WW,Batman Shaggy etc

[naive pebble]

I wish I could send a pic of my win rate lol

I didn't just lose, the loop has been an issue for a long time

[raven onyx]

Its on you for running into it

[naive pebble]

I don't want tom to be bad I just want the loop nerfed

[raven onyx]

Ik we can make mistakes but dont overdue it

[trim zealot]

It’s not true anymore. You’re complaining about a problem that’s already been solved.

[naive pebble]

Everytime you type and I don't read it, it's on you for making dumb takes like this that make you lose credibility

[raven onyx]

Thats rich coming from you

Stop whining about TnJ AND LEARN THE MATCHUP

READING YOUR MESSAGES IS ROTTING MY BRAIN

[naive pebble]

I did learn the mu that's why I can safely say it's 9-1

I have to be 9 times the player to beat someone who can do the loop

luckily most T and Js can't do the loop

[raven onyx]

SO WHY ARE YOU COMING HERE TO WINE LIKE CAILLOU

[trim zealot]

I’m going to send a video later today so you can stop complaining.

The combo ends. It’s not infinite.

A bot can avoid it better than you.

[naive pebble]

I would also send a video but I can't

[raven onyx]

IM ACTUALLY GOING INSANE BC OF PEOPLE WHINING ABOUT THE COOL STUFF

[naive pebble]

this is just silly I'm top 100 with my main

[naive pebble]

how is loop cool carried bot lmao

[raven onyx]

I DIDNT MEAN THE TNJ LOOP

[naive pebble]

THAT'S ALL I WANT NERFED THO

LMAO BROO...... READ PLEASE

[raven onyx]

STOP RUNNING INTO THE PADDLE

[naive pebble]

Honestly this character seems to attract the worst players ever dude. I don't get it.

[raven onyx]

IF TNJ GETS NERFED AGAIN IM CRASHING OUT AND PLAY SHAGGY

[naive pebble]

Tom and Jerry is a cool show why are the mains so trash

[raven onyx]

I dont even main TnJ

Ive secondaried them

[naive pebble]

who do you main

[raven onyx]

Bugs

[naive pebble]

Man. I like Buggs tho. Why do you have to be like this

[raven onyx]

What did i do wrong

Spit it out then

[naive pebble]

you're complaining that I want a loop to be removed from the game when it's actually unfair and unfun.

[raven onyx]

The funny thing was it was Reindog,TnJ and then Bugs for my mains

[naive pebble]

I don't even want T and J to be bad I just want the loop removed

[raven onyx]

Its people fault for complaining about TnJ and dont focus on the actual threats

This community has burned me on MVS is making me hate it

[naive pebble]

when the loop is gone I will be talking about Taz and Batman don't worry.

It's just those characters aren't completely unbeatable. But a T and J who can loop honestly feels next to unbeatable.

And yes. It's a mu thing. idc

it's a good few characters it works on

[raven onyx]

Im starting to hate MVS bc of this community

[naive pebble]

it's bad for me to want a loop to be removed?

[raven onyx]

Im just burned out bc of this community

Like i want to do cool stuff but it gets removed bc why not (im not talking about the loop)

Like removing the jump branch was unneeded

[naive pebble]

If you were burnt out of people asking for silly nerfs I would understand you but this is a more than justified change, I would like him to be buffed in areas outside the loop to compensate for the loop being gone.

I'm not bias I don't hate T and J

[raven onyx]

Punching a hole in TnJs kit

[naive pebble]

they can add the jump back for all I care but add a neutral b lockout because that's the real problem

[raven onyx]

I am burnt out on people wanting silly nerfs

[naive pebble]

and maybe a dair lockout

[naive pebble]

Explain why my nerf is silly?

[raven onyx]

Like i want to play this game but i feel disgusting when i play Bugs but ik people want him nerfed

[raven onyx]

Im not talking about that

[naive pebble]

Bugs shouldn't be nerfed

I agree with you on that

Batman is the obvious op character rn and it lowkey feels intentional for the event.

Tom just has a loop that makes certain MUs 9-1 and I think it's unhealthy.

[raven onyx]

This community is breaking me