Superman

[wet nest]

Superman is so fun

I've been non stop hitting people at like 50 ish with sniper punch lol

[mental ibex]

I literally do not want to

I just want to blacklist bugs ww joker and shaggy from my games

as soon as they're nerfed HARD it'll be ok

[hollow grove]

I just killed someone at 30 with side special

[desert saddle]

I cast, MOLDY PILLOWS

[hollow grove]

People surviving my dash attack at 150

Meanwhile Batman and Finn killing with thier dash attack at 90

Seems balanced lol

[hushed parcel]

Yo the gizmo + Superman comp is crazy I did 80 dmg and killed a jake with a gizmo riding me in 2 air side specials.

[brisk fiber]

how we feeling supes mains

nvm just ran into harley quinn

NOTHING is funny anymore 😭

i won 🥹

also is it just me or is supermans up air janky to hit

[hollow grove]

Kill power needs to be shifted to his other moves

His side special should not be killing at 50 and his smash attacks should be killing past 100

The hit box of his air down special doesnt exist

His up special is basically completely worthless right now

[desert saddle]

Horrible, his neutral special is horrid, and he has one kil move under 100%

[brisk fiber]

his ice breath??

its so good though 😭

[desert saddle]

The lasers are worse

[hollow grove]

Harley Quinn can kill you with her air specials past 100

[desert saddle]

But the ice breath is never useful bc I main ones

[hollow grove]

Meanwhile superman struggles to kill past 120

[desert saddle]

Final hit of grounded up special

[hollow grove]

Finn's dash attack kills at 90 while Superman's doesnt kill at 130

[desert saddle]

That's fair

[hollow grove]

That is not simple to land. You gotta condition someone to get hit by that

Im not downplaying because the armor is neato

[desert saddle]

It feels simple, just hit them from the top ropes, or just spam it until it works or you die

[hollow grove]

But his kill power is booty rn

Meanwhile people are killing with up airs at 80+

[desert saddle]

Yeah

[brisk fiber]

its useful

because it has a use

its just hard to use

so until you can learn how to use it youre better off without

but if you are gonna get good at superman you need to learn it

since its the only way to make some matchups playable

bugs / harley / joker / batman will abuse you if you cant

[desert saddle]

K

[hollow grove]

Yeah I started using ice breath in my last set

Only way to edge gaurd it feels like

[brisk fiber]

its also amazing offensively

[hollow grove]

That or im terrible

[brisk fiber]

if youre against someone immobile like jason / IG

[hollow grove]

Its like trying to edge gaurd right now feels awful

Everyone just spams up air or up special and the hit boxes goes through the stage

They are MORE safe sliding on the edge then they are on the stage

But ice breath can force them off

[desert saddle]

Reverse edge guard. Never let them off the stage

[hollow grove]

TRUE

[desert saddle]

Also if timed well, a half decent grounded up special can kill under 100, and edge guard

[hollow grove]

Iv done that a few times

but some players are very patient because they know I cant really beat their up special

Harley especially

[desert saddle]

I feel like I'm trash at everyone I play besides supes

Idk why I've played most of the cast in training, I only like taz, but he's slow as hell, gizmo is cool but I'm not used to mages at all

And the rest I don't like playing

[hollow grove]

Im pretty sure most projectile characters are not balanced atm

Projectiles have a disgusting amount of hit stop

[desert saddle]

Marvin feels cheap asf

[brisk fiber]

projectiles are OP but

ice breath is OP to projectiles

and the hitboxes are in your favor as supes

[desert saddle]

Ik but I wanna learn someone that isn't supes

[hollow grove]

I got WW and Jason to lvl 10 to get better at neutral

Jason is terrible dont play him lol

but WW is cool

[desert saddle]

I'm just playing them for FC

I might do the same with Jason one day

I'm also stuck in rifts too so i don't even wanna play no more

Crushing rifts make me wanna crush my head

[hollow vortex]

I noticed this too

[lean sentinel]

Offstage side b into fair is goated

Killed a wonder woman at 30 with it

[lean sentinel]

I was at about 150 on my last stock too and they were teabagging me after each kill 💀

[ornate spear]

I CAST PARASITIC WASP INFECTION

[desert saddle]

Wild

[warped elm]

Sniper punch killing mid stage at 50 and superman mains are saying his character is weak? lol

[desert saddle]

STAGE PI CANCER

[lean sentinel]

He is weak no cap

He's slow and just sucks against zoners and assassins and tanks like wonder woman

[brisk fiber]

supes has a lot in his kit its just so counterintuitive and disconnected from itself its hard to utilize

like he's a combo heavy tank..... without a reliable approach

he has all the tools to bully people at the edges... except a throw up / down

you need to either work hard for your damage or pray your opponent stands still while you charge up a sniper punch / pray they walk into something

[shy thicket]

that move is terrible lol

[brisk fiber]

its his best raw killing move at range 😭

but you need super tight timing with it

otherwise its very easy to punish

[shy thicket]

yeah but its got so much recovery. i see so many supermans just spamming it in the neutral. ive maybe been hit by it twice since the new release

is there some kinda youtube video out on superman right now? i see them all go for the exact same edge guard setup with his nair

[desert saddle]

Sorry supe mains I just cooked one of ur men as gizmo

I apologize for leaving these ranks, but gizmo is simply better.

[sudden geyser]

That batman superman mu so bad

[lean sentinel]

It is

Tom and Jerry is also another crap matchup

[sudden geyser]

A good portion of the cast

Just bad mu

[lean sentinel]

fr

[sudden geyser]

Gizmo

Harley

Ww

Adam

Shaggy

Tom and taz

Bugs

Bro even finn

Steven

Argued for morty

And rick

[desert saddle]

As a gizmo player and possible main, yes. Gizmo can charge an arrow and shoot superman before he can fly in

As a former Superman player, any mage you CANNOT deal with.

[sudden geyser]

I forgot arya

This character so gutted

[sudden geyser]

Yep lol

Like bro

His best match up is jason

💀

[desert saddle]

You 🍇 any Jason (they're surprising common) it's a free win as any mage against jasom

[sudden geyser]

I miss beta so much

Wavedash

Triple jump perk

They done my goat so dirty

[sudden geyser]

Yep

Worst character rn

[desert saddle]

Jason has a large hitbox, you can't.. he is easy to accidentally attack even on a whiff

[wet nest]

Nah he strong idk what they smoking lol

[sudden geyser]

If you're getting hit by sniper punch ya bot

[desert saddle]

Or you made a horrible, slow move and you get punished

[sudden geyser]

^

[weak perch]

Superman needs help 😞

[lean sentinel]

Tom's ping pong paddle 💀

Also just played a wonder woman and won with just nair on my last stock

3 stocked a batman as superman

still hate the mu

going offstage for dairs against jason is so free

[tidal shell]

maybe i'm wrong, but there seems to be no setup confirm for sniper punch, right?

i understand something comboing into SP might be a bit broken, just wondering if im not optimizing supes as much as he can be

the closest move that feels like it could work so far is supes dash

[shy thicket]

you might be able to use it if the opponent constantly dodges away after getting hit. depending on timing of course

[brisk fiber]

yes u can man

just ice breath and force them to walk up

the hardest part is getting a lead but when you have one you just turn the tables on them

and ice breath everything they throw at you and then slam them when they get up close

[brisk fiber]

but it IS hard though im not gonna sit here and say its easy

ice breath is tough since its something you have to commit to

[desert saddle]

In my defense I forgot about the move bc it's very rarely useful

[sleek flame]

What to do against batman if your above him?

[brisk fiber]

its weird because if you dont need it for the matchup its near useless unless you really really want to apply pressure with it

but if you do need it for the matchup? its jesus christ

but if you find yourself getting bullied by projectile characters then you probably arent using ice breath enough

since most projectiles are either weak or have a cooldown and ice breath doesnt

[hushed parcel]

Doesn’t Jerry beat ice breath? I’m pretty sure it does as well as bugs safe

[hollow grove]

Yea because those are heavy projectiles

Basiclaly, they are win buttons

[shy thicket]

probably a bad idea to try and contest because of his up special being very disjointed. but his kill power on his up air and up special are very weak so its not the end of the world if you get hit. i would use side special in the air to mix up how you land

[hollow grove]

Dash jump and fast fall to hit the floor. Nothing you can do

[rancid quarry]

guys rate this superman match and anyone got any tips and stuff that i need to work on ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYf6sXY6x_c

[hollow vortex]

So the Superman vs Bugs matchup is 0/100. Pretty cool.

My guy really needs some mobility upgrades.

[rancid quarry]

bugs's safe imo need to nerfed 100% if it can 1 shot 70% of roster

it's actually crazy

[brisk fiber]

honestly

i wouldnt even be (directly) above batman

like ever if i can help it

most characters either have a killshot or can juggle you

and nothing is really worth risking that especially against players that wont miss their punishes

maybe if youre trying to catch them offguard and jump deep for an edgeguard but thats def more style than substance

[hollow vortex]

man, they made a mistake giving away Summer Break Superman as part of an event

I was gonna buy a skin for him, but Summer Break is by far my favorite with all his gag lines about being Clark Kent.

[rancid quarry]

Anyone got tips ?

[faint dome]

Theres definitely far better up airs in the game.

[faint dome]

Ice breath is amazing against heavy projectile characters
Tom and Jerry dynamite, tennis balls; negated with ice breath

Harleys jack in the box, C4 bomb; ice breath

Jokers cards: Ice breath

Batman's battarang: Gone, deleted

That's just to name a few. Try it out next time someone tries to zone you out with projectiles or setup traps. You'll be surprised how lost some players look when you eliminate the things they heavily depend on to win.

[hollow grove]

and then Harley punishes the recovery with dash jump neutral air lol

[brisk fiber]

yea ice breath works against harley but it can be dangerous since she is so lethal

most other characters its whatever youll have a fighting chance even if they get first hit

but harley will make you pay if she gets in

[royal violet]

this character gets me hot

playing them

can finally just armor through these idiotic mashers and then they're just shocked LOL

because they can't spam buttons anymore

and call it skill

[brisk fiber]

yeah love doing that

glad you enjoy supes ;D

[lean sentinel]

Losing to superman is a choice

[tidal shell]

This character feels amazing to play. No complaints besides two. The up special throw being different and down special fizzing half the time.

Besides those, all his aerials are great, launch well, and the combo game feels fluid with his speed.

20 game winstreak in 1s currently

[royal violet]

this is why i've been looking for a superman discord to talk about all these things + things i've discovered

[royal violet]

ooh nice

wdym by up special throw different

[lean sentinel]

I just like his nair

[royal violet]

do you mean that grounded up b different than aerial up b

is how i would phrase it

[tidal shell]

In beta it threw uppies instead of sideways, making the kill confirms at top stage ez pz

[lean sentinel]

Can't throw up or down if they're talking about aerial up b

[royal violet]

ohhhh

they changed the angle damn

that would've been broken LOL

[tidal shell]

It twas. The character still plays well though. V happy

[royal violet]

grounded up b can cancel into airdodge down into aerial up b or up air with drift-in if that makes you feel better; it may not be true but i have to do more testing on it

and he still has regular up air to kill off the top but not the same

[tidal shell]

If you're looking for tips/tricks, Supes jab mix-ups are crazy, unless you know this already

Don't finish the jab combo and you can do both up-tilt and down-tilt to extend into almost anything you want after

2 jab > down-tilt > half of jab combo > up-tilt is a quick 30

[lean sentinel]

Real ones spam nair offstage and kill super early

0-deathed a stripe player earlier by spamming nair

[royal violet]

yeah i love using that

the jab mixup

[tidal shell]

Nair too is insane

It doesn't cover too far but the uptime of active hitboxes is sooo nice to space against moves

[royal violet]

never used the nair until now but will note that down

[tidal shell]

Family Guy above is super right. 2 Nair combo, back up a little while your opp dodges away, and hit with a quick sniper punch for a cheese kill

[royal violet]

down tilt is a good spike tool i realized but if it had armor as well it would just be fighting ult kazuya all over again

somehow aerial side b can reverse edgeguard opponents if they're not in the know of how to counter it, even when the opp is at ledge

the detection hitbox is bizarre

[tidal shell]

Try sniper punch too for edgeguarding mixups. It can slip past the stage so you can hit people holding onto the wall

[royal violet]

i wish we had a dash buffer option like joker

maybe even a loop

i'll look for something but doubt it'd be a loop

joker can just jab loop

jab 1 -2 repeat

ooooh

jab 1 -2 rapid jab down tilt > dash buffer > repeat (loop)

this works but it isn't true like joker's

this game has no real counters to projectile spammers like morty though

[tidal shell]

Ice breath deals with like everything that's not a heavy projective

Bugs Safe and Rocket I know are two examples. Not sure on the rest currently but there's more

But against Joker, Harley Quinn, and Velma, Ice Breath is your best friend

Reindog too, but if the dog is spamming projectiles then they're not playing the dog well

[royal violet]

wait so it collides with projectiles?

[tidal shell]

It freezes projectiles and stops them. Or even destroys entirely like Joker balloons

Joker cards too, immediately frozen and turned to "ice projectiles" that can be picked up and thrown

[royal violet]

this char has the most ragequits i've felt since either my joker or my jason

[royal violet]

ooh

bro i never knew that wtf

they don't explain any of these things lol

[tidal shell]

Supes has oodels of tools to neutralize the playing field and close the gap

Sniper Punch killing at 50 center stage on lightweights the greatest

Some dude yesterday had the nightmare Superman skin in a mirror matchup and I learned you can ledgeguard with aeriel up-special, thrown away from stage, and side air after. Killed me with it and I was a bit jaw dropped

Still won tho 💪

[royal violet]

TIL aerial up b can be reversed after it catches someone

had to test it cause jason had the same with his grounded up b

superman side air is good?

[tidal shell]

NGL, Idk. Half the time it hits and kills 100+, can be used in mixups and can be quickly cancelled out of.

The other half of the time, I get punished, they dodge through it, or it doesn't have priority and I get punished again

If you need to get back to ledge it's alright, but I think there's better ways to close a gap if you're in need of something to start a combo or guard in the air

Like I'd much rather be using nair or sair to extend a combo, or up smash and neutral attack to kill given they both have armor

Side air special feels like a recovery tool, or catch them off stage in an aeriel mixup if my combo game is getting repetitive and the enemy starts to ready the flow chart

Ngl I just realized you typed side air and I immediately implied side air special. My b

Side air is great yeah. That and nair are bff's

[lean sentinel]

Made a Joker rage quit with my superman 💀

Also 3 stocked a harley and made a gizmo rage quit yesterday

[brisk fiber]

it freezes them

which p much destroys it

usually ice breath is your only lifeline in some matchups

or else you get cooked by projectiles

[desert saddle]

What was the user, might have been me

[faint dome]

I mean I guess if you're careless with the ice breath yeah lol

[brisk fiber]

Harley doesn’t have a hard time punishing even correctly used ice breaths

She can cross the map like it’s nothing and combo most things into most things

[faint dome]

If you got punished then it wasn't used correctly...hence why it would be called a punish lol

[brisk fiber]

this is only true in perfect hypotheticals where we can assume things are perfectly balanced, and makes less sense when discussing a platform fighter

some characters just are hard countered by things

and not hard countered by other things

also its not a binary right / wrong

since that simplifies the game way too much

if you have 5 options against harley quinn and she can beat you at all of them, it doesnt matter how well you do any of your options

you will still get punished because harley quinn is built to punish anything that isnt playing extremely safe

[lean sentinel]

Reverse 2-0'd a Superman main in the ditto after they teabagged me game 1

[verbal gate]

did the same to a batman main before in teh beta

i literally bought batman on the spot to do it

im not sure if u can still see people's levels but he def saw that level 1 batman crack his skull

honestly some characters are just allowed to be better

[lean sentinel]

fr

[tall lantern]

WHAT ARE SOME SUPE BUILDS

[desert saddle]

Sniper punch, snowball, 2fast4u, and the one where charge attacks break armor

[tall lantern]

oooh that smart

[tall lantern]

Armor crush

or armor killer

Imma assume armor killer

[sudden geyser]

Going back to Fortnite praise allah

[desert saddle]

I think that's it 👍

[left cairn]

is superman's laser eyes broken or am i just bad? on maps with with removing platforms the laser just seems to go through the floor and onto the side of the destructible area

[tacit remnant]

The laser is so ass just let it

Honestly revamp super man to have down special be freeze breath as it angles down anyways, and neutral special be laser eyes but it shots forward and does continuous burn dmg with soft knockback

And give it like a ammo Guage for balance

[lean sentinel]

They nerfed side attack 3 💀

[eternal rover]

lol we literally needed 0 nerfs

[lean sentinel]

We literally needed buffs

[worn narwhal]

why tf were we nerfed again bro

[oblique wind]

Well fellas, Superman stay losing

Why? Idfk

[errant sequoia]

my boiiiii....

[oblique wind]

They really trying to Captain Falcon us?

[errant sequoia]

i think like Superman doesn't even have decent combo

[oblique wind]

Honestly, kinda not happy

[errant sequoia]

now

yes me too

[oblique wind]

Superman needs combos, not strings

If that's the case, give us the up and down throws back

If we're gonna be a grappler, then let us have cheese like almost everyone else

[rare turret]

Can they just change the up grab back 🫠

[sacred swan]

Good job PFG for nerfing superman combos once more

[vale halo]

Maybe they are afraid of buffing him? Idk. He was top 2 next to Jake best character in the game after beta and so was Velma. Now look at them both. Nerfed to the ground

[oblique wind]

Could be it, but man they need help, and fast.

[vale halo]

After playing the game and adjusting since coming from open beta I have to agree. Superman got gutted. You can parry his grab and he is more punishable now on attacks

[vale halo]

With the new armor killing perks he took another hit

[oblique wind]

Parrying command grabs is the stupidest thing

Why is this even a thing?

Every fighting game I've ever played has always had it so command grabs overpower all defensive options besides perhaps a Combo Breaker or Burst.

And the fact that ARMOR beats command grabs? That is beyond idiotic.

Jason needs this as well.

[vale halo]

I have to agree I was fighting a Superman and fly is so slow it’s so easy to parry it if you time it right

[oblique wind]

Not to mention, if you're gonna complain that "oh, but it kills soooo early!"

1. half if not most the roster can kill at 30%

2. DODGE, DARN IT

[vale halo]

They also nerfed the hell out of his super punch. That move is so incredibly easy to punish and hit him out of it. I hit him out of it everytime he does it. Also that’s untrue. His grab used to kill earlier open beta they definitely nerfed the knockback on that move I feel

[vale halo]

Idk who’s saying it kills early. Only if you’re challenging him off stage which idk why you would do that against a Superman overall bad idea. You can’t even throw anybody down to the blast zone anymore

I don’t even play Superman never did since open beta and I still don’t. Not my type of character or playstyle but man. Yeah. They nerfed the hell out of him. He’s not open beta Superman anymore

[oblique wind]

Frankly, he doesn't feel like Superman. He feels like "I hit hard but can't combo", the character. It sucks.

I also really miss his wavedash.

[oblique wind]

He was my boy, and they absolutely destroyed him.

[vale halo]

I seriously think it’s because of how wild he was open beta. Notice how all the characters who were dominant open beta like Jake and Velma and Superman are now completely lifeless characters

[oblique wind]

Yet Wonder Woman and Tom & Jerry still remain at the top, despite their extreme dominance

[warped fulcrum]

yall biggest spammers oat, Even worse the shaggy players

and u never die, Got a superman to 240 and he didnt die

[oblique wind]

Bro you play Aria. Who are you to judge about spamming? Especially when you complain about Marvin?

[warped fulcrum]

Arya is combos not spam? Every superman ive faced just Spams the grab/ Punch and its so annoying, I just hate on marvin because hes annoying and looks annoying, Also arya takes skill unlike superman

[oblique wind]

Use Armor break and Parry

[warped fulcrum]

Parry is hard to do

[oblique wind]

Then practice

[warped fulcrum]

Cba

[oblique wind]

Plus, you can easily dodge Side B

[vale halo]

Because of the way Superman is now and the nerfs he got, most Superman mains are trying to read your dodge so that they can armor and go for a kill also you can parrry the grab and get armor breaking perks. Do that and you will melt Superman

[warped fulcrum]

Blastoise worst gen 1 starter btw, Charizard and Bulbasaue better

[oblique wind]

Maybe if you whine harder you'll actually touch a nerve.

[warped fulcrum]

Not tryna strike a nerve mate, Blastoise is just mid, Squirtle and whatever the middle one is called are better than the other starters but Charizard and the plant thing are Just better, its a known fact

[oblique wind]

Opinions are like butts, everyone's got one. In VGC you'd be correct, but otherwise I don't really care. Blastoise rules.

[lean sentinel]

Might switch over to Velma

But only for doubles might still use Superman for 1v1

[brisk fiber]

WE GOT NERFED??

WHAT

@hollow vortex WE GOT NERFED T OGII

ITS OVER

[brisk fiber]

supes is pretty spammable, he does great damage and has kill power

but most of all he scares you\

most characters have tools to get out of whatever superman wants to do or counterattack faster and flip the tables

but if supes can win the mental game you arent gonna be thinking about how weak he actually is

you are just gonna look at your number get higher and higher and then you are dead

and then you go to #1245141724490371133 and whine about him when you can just back up and stop losing to trash approaches

[hollow grove]

This guy got super salty because I beat him and tried to play me in a mirror match but got beat even worse

I want to tell him what he was doing wrong but theres no in game chat

[hollow vortex]

How is jab nerfed now? I havent been able to play since the patch.

[brisk fiber]

honestly its not like over over but a nerf is just odd i didnt think superman was that strong

certainly not like nerf level

[digital echo]

Umm since when did Superman have a consistent 0 to death???

[hollow grove]

Changed nothing. End jab with up smash

[hollow grove]

He doesnt, you can dodge his side special if arent caught lacking

[digital echo]

Bro I’m dying to the side air he not even getting to the side special part

U don’t get it

Jab dtilt bait fair is enough to kill Batman on the edge on certain maps that’s a true combo gng

[brisk fiber]

it probably looks more impressive than it was

superman is all flash no substance even if he is still not bad

[hollow vortex]

The jab change didn't affect anything I was doing with the character. We good.

[brisk fiber]

yea i overreacted

we are back 🥹

and we are still on track for superman buffs

this was but a challenge to test our faiths

[hollow grove]

Yeah I never even did it before the change

Superman needs his kill power to be shifted around and we gucci

[lean sentinel]

Buff forward air and forward smash

Idk how that punch is weaker than shaggys

[vagrant fog]

how are people playing him hes so ass

[lean sentinel]

Just power through the pain of losing to zoners and fast characters 🫡

[verbal gate]

i love vacation superman, his voicelines are so annoying lol

"golly, you want me to fight" as I grab them for the 5th time in a row

[rapid loom]

Superman is still really good, idk why you guys are saying otherwise.

[oblique wind]

Lack of true combos, extreme counters, and really slow

[eternal rover]

lol cuz he’s not that good

[oblique wind]

Bottom of Mid Tier or top of Low Tier atm

[rapid loom]

I'd say he's A+ tier rn

Pretty much only play him and have a 70.8% winrate on 925 matches

[hushed parcel]

I’d say in 1s he can be pretty bad when fought against someone good cause a lot of his approach options require dodge which is very limited and his burnout is horrendously bad cause he doesn’t have armor. Also a lot of his neutral wins rely on the enemy attacking you

But in 2s I can sort of see him work cause it’s 2s and he can have mad kill power

[hollow grove]

Id say A tier honestly

He needs adjustments heavily

[tidal shell]

y'all smoking that pack if you think supes ain't mid-top tier

sure he ain't broken or top 3, but between air speed, armor, and kill power he's got enough tools to compete with most of the roster

compared to characters like Marvin? Supes is chillin

sure WW is straight up a better tank, bugs is the best mage, Arya is the best assassin, but supes ain't the WORST tank. mans still has options

[hollow grove]

His kill power is booty

Everyone is killing at 90 or 100 with up airs

[tidal shell]

be real for like 30 seconds and tell me sniper Punch isn't the easiest kill tool at 40% center stage

shaggy whiffs one side special and you mean to tell me sniper Punch isn't the easiest punish

I've killed lightweights at 30% edge of the stage with sniper Punch max range

up air isn't every characters best kill tool. not everyone on the roster will have a bug's or Harley up air

also my other main is Reindog where up air doesn't kill till 160+

I'm cool with a 90% kill upair

[hollow grove]

Yeah, it shouldnt be doing that. His dash attack fails to kill at 140. Thats the exchange

Is that a good thing?!

[tidal shell]

true, dash attack is weak. pros and cons of every character. by no means tho does supes suck

I had a 20 game win streak going in 1s with Supes. The aerial combo game feels great between nair and sair off stage

[oblique wind]

Superman is in a odd spot. But yeah, no combos and overly reliant on 50/50s

Also all his grabs are parryable which is dumb

Also Armor Break equips really hurt him.

[hollow grove]

Cant throw people up or down anymore either

[hushed parcel]

It can kill but if people know how to beat it then you can easily beat out the move. In 1s this move becomes harder to connect because the opponent is paying attention to what you’re doing. This makes it very easy to beat out your punch because all they have to do is dodge or throw out attack to beat so basically just not be a bot

[eternal rover]

Sniper punch basically never lands

[verbal gate]

Superman still has brutal follow up while being tanky af. He can quite easily stonewall you with nairs and fairs or just take you off the map entirely if you don’t predict his attacks properly. Well unless ur ww then u can just throw out any attack and always come out ahead

His fly grab can kill and you can also cancel out of it pretty easily nowadays so u can bait with it a bit, and while his up special is lowkey not that good his grounded up special is lowkey busted and his sniper punch as previously mentioned kills at like 40 off center stage

Overall he lost power in his grabs (cuz of trades you no longer just straight out prio people) but makes up for it in a lot of knock and armor potency

[verbal gate]

50/50s is what superman is all about 😎 I only ever used his beta infinite if someone else tried to infinite me first

Other than that it was just 50/50s the entire match

[hollow vortex]

Gonna need you to elaborate on how grounded up special is low key busted, because it seems basically unusable in 1's unless your opponent eats glue.

[sacred swan]

If Jason wasn’t in the game, Superman would literally be the worst tank.

[sacred swan]

His grabs didn’t lose trade power unless you mean the hit boxes are still broke . He can still grab you the same, just can’t kill you in the top and bottom blast like with his special, unlike every other character with normal up specials…

[hollow vortex]

Well, the other two tanks were (1) literally removed for being OP and (2) uncontested #1 in the game. So supes being the #3 tank doesn't really mean much.

[desert saddle]

2 others?

[hollow vortex]

Iron Giant and Wonder Woman. The other two tanks besides Superman and Jason. Unless I'm forgetting someone?

[desert saddle]

I thought you meant they were both removed, but I understand

[desert saddle]

I swear Garnet was a tank

[hollow vortex]

I think she's always been a brawler

She's thicc but not that thicc

[desert saddle]

Which context? In game weight or rule34 thicc

SPECIFY! ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HER IN GAME WEIGHT OR ASS SIZE 😭

[hushed parcel]

Is grounded up special good? I thought that move lacked kill power

[hushed parcel]

Her weight is entirely ass based

[sacred swan]

Actually it means a lot when you compare supe to the rest of the roster.

[desert saddle]

Technically it's hand based due to the fact the gems physical forms are hardened light which weighs technically nothing

But yeah most of that gay women's weight is ass

[brisk fiber]

Can’t put him that high up when Superman has clear weaknesses

He shouldn’t be close to actual insane characters like the joker or Batman

[verbal gate]

It’s an armored move that hits at like 4 points with really generous hit boxes. Back then when it went the distance it basically only hit at the start, the apex, and the ends. Now its basically active hitboxes the entire time you’re using it. In a sense if you can hit up grounded normal you can probably hit up grounded special. The real reason it’s op is also because it’s a movement attack that you can 1. Cancel out of and 2. It’s an armored spike with an infinitely active hitbox when you jump off the side with it. Someone camping ledge? Literally just grounded up special and they basically have to dodge it perfectly or get spiked. @hushed parcel

It also has great kill power and like I said displaces you so makes you harder to hit while ya know, still giving you armor

[verbal gate]

Nah I mean like before you would literally just grab people and most people would lose to grab if they tried it head on. It used to be ww ground side special would literally just get grabbed every single time if she tried it lol but now she actually wins that trade because the start of your grab does 2 damage while you take like 16 dmg. There’s a ton of moves like that that used to just flat out lose because you would get grabbed and that’d be the entire story but now it’s like you get grabbed but trade attacks that normally wouldn’t have gotten off

Harley slide also beats out Superman’s grab not sure if it did before but I don’t think it did

Garnet jab probably now beats out when it didn’t used to

Reindog side air special

Shaggy kick

Lots of iron giant moves

[hushed parcel]

Ok I didn’t know that that’s insane

[verbal gate]

It’s great. I don’t think I’ve ever seen it miss a spike granted I’ve only done it a few times because the tech stage had platforms which will automatically stop you from jumping off with it unless you’re on the top platform and because I also just forget a bunch lol. Really I should be using it at every opportunity it’s brutal

[brisk fiber]

the issue is that its reactable

and no matter what your opponent can just walk away

and if you are already close enough to be using that as superman you need to make the most of it

getting reset back to neutral is a loss since superman's neutral isnt strong

[desert saddle]

.. dodge. It's slow as hell just jump away

[verbal gate]

Fellas, I hear ya but lemme make a counterpoint… it’s dope af

Aight but for real it’s a good move, it catches people in the air it catches people on the ground and it makes it hella deadly on ledge cuz if you jump away from me you probably still might get hit and I’m def nairing you into the blast zone if it doesn’t

[desert saddle]

Half of the time the first 2 hits don't even lead into the kill

[brisk fiber]

its just too unsafe to throw out

your neutral game needs to be good and it doesnt get good by throwing out bad attacks since better players will punish you

and if they are playing someone good that punish can lead to a juggle kill

or a edgeguard kill

[bleak coral]

We need a Bizarro Skin

[hollow vortex]

Yeah I'm not convinced grounded up special is good

[desert saddle]

But it kills s🤷‍♂️

[shy thicket]

its definitely good. it has armor, can be canceled to make it safe or combo. no downsides really. probably some cheese with airwalker thats undiscovered

[hollow vortex]

No downsides other than being extremely slow and allowing the other player ample time to reset neutral or throw a projectile at you? 🤔

Maybe I need to test more with it, but it seems like a pubstomp move and nothing more.

[sacred swan]

it was better in beta because you could cancel out of it faster and sooner, it was a great bait tool to make them come at you

[raw sun]

Ill switch to superman a bit getting a bit tired of jason. Whats really harsh matches for superman?

[hollow grove]

Harley, Joker, Batman, Gizmo

[raw sun]

So basically the samen as on jason

any wonky shenanigans i should be aware of ?

[hollow grove]

His forward and neutral air misses characters with slides

Guess who has slides

Also you can't throw people up or down anymore

His side special kills at 50

[raw sun]

Ah

makes sense ig

i was missing that like i grap people a top of the map with upwards special and they just, schlurp along the top rope

[hollow grove]

His up special is damn near useless right now

[proud heart]

Bro this charecter is so braindead

[raw sun]

i hope they bufff it then its really fun to pick them up and just yeet them away

[brisk fiber]

that would be more important if superman wasnt built to kill

youre better off baiting out a dodge and then slamming them with a sniper punch

or even a raw heavy since you dont throw yourself into the air which is death against better characters/players

[brisk fiber]

characters that can combo well are pretty bad for us

and characters that can keep us away

[raw sun]

are any of his perks worth running?

ill buy it once i have the currency to actually byu him lol

[brisk fiber]

if you arent gonna use ice breath then you shouldnt get the ice breath perk but if you are gonna use ice breath you should

same with the sniper punch

the 5% increased damage or w/e is decent i think but sniper punch and ice breath are both really good and in all your matchups atleast one of them is useful enough to slap the perk on since itll either be your lifeline against projectile spam / campers (ice breath) or a good killmove (sniper punch)

but im just a superman main rambling take my words with a grain of salt

[raw sun]

might make the 3 custom perks then all for his unique thingys

[brisk fiber]

yea that would be a good idea

[raw sun]

I did it for jason too but just without the signature perks

[brisk fiber]

since it also gets you in the mind of playing matchups in general

[raw sun]

because lets be honest
Theyre meh

[brisk fiber]

yea i liked jason but he is way too much of tank in a game where tanks get eaten 😭

atleast he is getting buffs

[raw sun]

I hope so

id love to return to him but how hes currently nah

[vocal scarab]

How much does the Freeze stack perk actually boost damage?

[hollow grove]

You wont use it enough times for it to matter

Half the roster can smoke you instantly for using it unless they are hanging off edge

[gloomy zinc]

Superman mains helloo

Tryna use this character again

[hollow grove]

Hes good but lacks side kill power

and his air game is awful outside of his neutral air. His forward air is good as a follow up but has a horrificly bad hitbox when compared to other broken characters

[gloomy zinc]

Yea I noticed they nerfed the hell outta the air gamr

[gloomy zinc]

How do u use his Orbital punch

[short wave]

I'm playing Superman here for a weekly but uh, does his down special feel utterly pointless to anyone else? I've used it and seen people stand where it hits but it does like, nothing? I'm confused.

[sudden geyser]

Please buff this man bruh

[brisk fiber]

Laser vision is for combos and controlling space

It is awkward / clunky

[brisk fiber]

Ok this just isn’t true

Flying side special / up special grab / neutral smash / sniper punch / side air / nair all contribute to side killing

Either in damage or helping to push them off

[hollow grove]

I have only killed with the air side special once

[brisk fiber]

Then you aren’t utilizing it well enough

Go into training and combo laser vision into it

Superman is pretty scary to bigger people with his side killing since he can just combo you to death

One up throw and a side air puts them both offstage and sets you up to edge guard both horizontally or vertically

you gotta play like a bully and try to suffocate them if you’re close enough to touch them

and you have the tools for that suffocation to include horizontal juggling kills

[verbal gate]

Yeah it’s so buggy now, in the beta it was lethal and pretty much always on point and it hit platforms n stuff too. Now it’s like I literally use it on someone standing on the ground straight jorkin it and they just don’t even notice ??? The biggest offenders are people like Harley who slide or something and oh ok ig they are just immune, if they’re not literally planted on the ground charging an attack it seems like it just misses if they even just start walking.

[raw sun]

To be fair

The laser dunks on taz

because every taz ever holds his up tilt for like 8 gazillion millenia

and just lasering them out of it is very comforting

[young prairie]

Lasers are so trash nowadays, it feels like they don't hit opponents ever and genuinely are useless on Mansion

Mansion is by far Supes worst map

[brisk fiber]

i think mansion is fine for supes

the walls are really nice for your combos

a lot of space too

and there is no platforms

[young prairie]

No floor lasers so very little space control unless you drop the platforms

[brisk fiber]

you can play with the platforms but you are strong on the ground without

it lowers the amount of approach options

and superman is really dangerous if he knows what youre going to do

a lot of characters do not want to be forced to approach from one way against superman

[young prairie]

Yeah, drop platforms and force a unfavorable approach especially when they don't get the same pressure when you run sniper punch

But no lasers is still really not great

[brisk fiber]

its not but you just gotta play

and id take it over something like dexters lab anyday

honestly platforms are just so bad for superman

[young prairie]

Ahem, before the discord cops took me out back, Dex Labs is fine as long as it isn't the 2s moving varient I am fine

I hope in the balance patch coming Supes gets buffs tho, this weekend's topdog I feel like I only consistently lost vs top meta picks. WW and Joker primarily, Stevens runners up, and Gizmos sometimes

[split canyon]

What signature perk are you all running? I ran ice in the beta but I didn’t know if that was still his best one

[raw sun]

Is dairn nair jab combo true on him?

i feel like dair n nair are

not sure about the jab

It is atleast with the ai set to dodge after hit stun

but only works on 0% idk

[trail osprey]

Hey Superman players. Ever had a glitch where you air side grab into a wall and get the enemy stuck to you throug some cancel happening?

[verbal gate]

Super punch is absolutely deadly, if you can catch someone using a move with a long windup or even just false combo into it it will kill at like 40%

Max range assuming

[split canyon]

I’m going to try this. I have never once ran it

[verbal gate]

Default super punch is also deadly but the range of sniper punch let’s you constantly lay on the heat

[verbal gate]

I mean yeah it’s basically impossible to win a neutral against joker they can literally just spam forward air and you will never be able to hit or punish them. Could try just spamming armor bait lowkey

[trail path]

Thanks that's a good idea. It's so frustrating

[verbal gate]

nah u right tho you can literally dodge his side air and by the time ur dodge ends his hitbox is still active and he's followed you

like his attacks are fast, wide range, low endlag, high combo and kill potency, I think it's actually lowkey embarassing to even lose playing this character

oh i forgot the worst part is that his dodge is actually good so on top of doing all that he's like 90% immune to anything you do

• projectile

[untold delta]

Does Superman still have the ridiculously fast dodge jump?

Can't abuse it, obviously

But is it still a thing

?

[turbid wedge]

im looking for superman mains from SA

[brisk fiber]

yeah but you can test them by using ice breath

if they are just cheesing the character ice breath could be enough to squeak a win

[brisk fiber]

but yeah joker is a super tough matchup

[brisk fiber]

sniper punch is my fav rn but i have an ice breath perk build for certain matchups

[turbid wedge]

use armor break on jake, since most of his main attacks require charging, literally anytime u use it you will break armor if there's any

[brisk fiber]

is it even worth it to do that though

its not like youre supposed to be that aggro on supes

[turbid wedge]

you infact are yea

[brisk fiber]

his approaches are terrible and you’ll get caught out and punished if you just fish for laser vision / ice breath

You have to control space and let them walk into a bad situation and then that’s when you grab on and don’t let go until they claw their way out with +50 dmg or a stock missing

but just approaching is dead against better players since chances are they will be able to punish your approach, or leave you worse off and then press the issue on you

[shy thicket]

superman can just blow up Fair with armor. unless youre talking about his side special

[verbal gate]

The one where he spins his cane

It comes out so far and so fast it’s basically impossible to deal with in the air

On the ground you can power armor but you practically have to start the move before he does so if he doesn’t it’s just a free hit on you

Tbh I hate the entire batman trio

[shy thicket]

this one is much tougher to play around. but its possible to whiff punish it if the joker player is being predictable. which from my experience is most of them

[verbal gate]

Yah but tbh I get on to be a relentless killer and being forced to play completely passive cuz a character just has a move that completely beats you unless you hard punish sucks

Same reason I don’t like fighting ww anymore

Too fast, too much disjoint, too hard hitting

Finn feels ok to fight now but I disliked him in the beta

[shy thicket]

well if you wanna win thats how you do it lol. running into it wont do you any favors. hes getting adjusted next patch so dont worry'

[verbal gate]

There’s an acceptable level of passiveness and playing around someone though imo. It’s like, if you have to respect someone such as shaggy who will absolutely 0-death you it’s not actually that bad but if you have to fight someone who you can never press the advantage on and every trade is basically a losing one it’s like what’s the point we’re not even playing the same game

Tbf that was what playing superman was like in the beta tho

Real comeuppance

But yah like ww and jokers I feel like could be half your skill level and ur just still dealing with the fact that they’re just playing a better character

[shy thicket]

yeah this is one of my complaints right now. they are just playing a different game and put the pressure on the opponent to deal with it. they just run their gameplan and force you to play around it. but luckily most people abusing these characters lack fundamentals so you can still beat them by outplaying

jokers stay panic dodging

[verbal gate]

The worst though is when you fight someone who actually plays passive while playing these characters

Like really brk

[shy thicket]

tbf its the optimal way to play them in most matchups

[verbal gate]

U literally have every advantage and ur gonna actively gonna make me decide between trying to camp you out or just straight up losing

[verbal gate]

They can do that when they actually need to

I remember I did that to a ww in the beta and they rage quit I felt so bad

It was so easy to just out space them that I literally dodged by just walking backwards whenever they attacked and then continuing toward them

[shy thicket]

just gotta get the lead and force them to approach you

[verbal gate]

Yah that’s one way to do it lol

Lowkey easier to bear people who are behind cuz they’re desperate to equalize the playing field

For me though I’m always on that super brutal aggro where I just try to 0-death you all the time

Just feels bad to do against ww and joker because they can get hit and then immedietely fire back when no other character is really allowed to just drop out of disadvantage like that

[raw sun]

joker do be a bit harsh on the matchup side ngl

it takes a bit of parrying and spacing to get around his moves semi consistantly

asides i need me a good superman to fight and figure out what his gameplan is

[verbal gate]

My game plan is always trynna focus on gaining an inch to take to a mile. My biggest problem is that some people I can 0-death off just false comboing but some people dodge straight through me and there’s nothing I can do about it

Also some people (ahem ww, Harley, and Batman) will just jump over me

I used to just recovery grab people doing that and throw them up but recovery grab is lowkey terrible now

[raw sun]

can we run a few after i have eaten?

[verbal gate]

I’m bout to sleep but I can prob stay up to run some

[raw sun]

i promise im not gonna be mad if you 44-0 me

[verbal gate]

Always love to fight superman mains to steal tech

[raw sun]

get some rest than rather

[verbal gate]

Early on I had a superman up air->dodge->nair true kill me at gosh dang 30%

[raw sun]

Get that sleep in, more important

[verbal gate]

Only now have I gained the feel to be able to do it as well

Although I’m not very good at it

[verbal gate]

Yeah u prolly right

[raw sun]

Sleep well pal, ill see you when you revisit the daylight

[turbid wedge]

if we are talking jake vs supes, as a jake you can always just bite if the supes is aggroing way too much with armoured attacks, since it goes through armor, but that's only when he gets too close for comfort, and since jake is like, the best but also worst ranger character on the game since u can punish his Sair by beating his Sair (literally). You can always destroy a superman with that perk that i spoke of earlier, they'll be forced to adapt and stop using armoured attacks

[stark sandal]

Best perks for Superman?

[dense furnace]

I use the one where it weakens opponents if u knock them back while ur above 100 damage

[raw sun]

Its funny to me that no one here wants to 1v1 me because my requirement is ,,be chill"

How am i gonna learn superman if i only have 1v1 normal queue

[gaunt wolf]

Rt

[brisk fiber]

this one is so good

[remote anchor]

😐

Damn I did NOT know Superman had a 0-D

Wtf

[raw sun]

he has?

you mean the twitter clip with the 80 dodge frames?

[warped elm]

I really want them to buff superman but nerf sniper punch, really, on 2's there's a lot of times dying at 30% bcuz of that perk

Not even a joke or exaggeration, it was real

[verbal gate]

I know he can def 0-d you if ur near the edge but it's all very circumstantial

like you have to lock in or something, read the DI

[remote anchor]

Yeah that jab spam go crazy

If you don't di you just die

[verbal gate]

u talking about nair?

lmao whenever I jab -> dtilt -> jab -> dtilt it's like

bro

[remote anchor]

Nah where they just side spam you off the map

[verbal gate]

that's what im talkin bout

reliving the glory days whenever i hit a combo like that ngl

[remote anchor]

💀💀

[brisk fiber]

not rlly

not hard to escape

respect it and you wont die to it

[vestal chasm]

damn sniper punch is killing insanely early

[stark sandal]

Bro Superman is too simple that it’s hard for me play

[raw sun]

He has his gimmicks like everyone but stringing them together is odd considering his base kit is good/alright

[stark sandal]

Superman is too meat head for me to be good with

[verbal gate]

Honestly I would prefer sniper punch kills at somewhere above 70-80 if we could get more power elsewhere in his kit

Sniper punch should have decent pressure in that it pushes you off the map but shouldn’t just be a straight up assassination tool

It only takes a half second read to kill someone at 40

Instead they should double the speed of fly grab and make his up special throw omnidirectionally ahain

[brisk fiber]

Superman takes some thinking but only against better people

It is true you can just armor through everything and blow people off the stage against lesser skilled ppl

[short flame]

I'm down with returning the up throw since that's a genuine way of killing from a juggle, but the down throw can stay gone

I remember the beta with all the Supermans who's just try to cheese you with down throw at ledge and nothing else

It made the character so miserable to see more often than not

[verbal gate]

down throw's funny though when you interrupt someone's combo with it

imo the recovery grab was lowkey nerfed anyways so they should just add back the omnidirectional

although i guess it's to make it so that superman isn't oppressive in every direction

[vestal chasm]

that'd be too broken cause they made the maps smaller

[fleet pelican]

Wait so is the jabx2 -> down attack -> jabx2 not real with DI?

[stark sandal]

Superman is ass

[mental ibex]

ground up normal is absolutely insane kp if you can charge it just a bit

which is definitely viable in 2v2

[mental ibex]

hes fun

[brisk fiber]

rent free

[stable pulsar]

I'm new to Superman but he feels like a slightly better Jason in areas, where he can sometimes get an attack off but other characters are just better at it than him.

[stable pulsar]

Also, some matchups seem much more fun than others.

Against Shaggy it sucks but I feel a bit of a kinship with Steven players.

[stark sandal]

Not rent free he feels like crap and combo food

Marvin is an easier character to pilot than Superman

[brisk fiber]

yeah but you changed your name to "supermanisass"

he lives rent free in your head

if you really thought superman was trash you would enjoy him for the free wins he provides

like how i see iron giant

[brisk fiber]

@bleak tusk gg, nice seeing another superman 😳

[proud heart]

Imagine being braindead

[eternal rover]

I am

[stable pulsar]

It feels like Superman has a lot of issues, which is a shame because I want to enjoy him. It feels like his side special is super unreliable, for example, as just about any other attack in the game seems to take priority if you were to hit at the same time.

[stable pulsar]

How is his ice signature? Is it worth using, such as in 2s, or does it only increase his damage?

[oblique wind]

Only good for singles, but Ice Breath isn't that great besides air control and anti zoning

[stable pulsar]

Ah. His side special seems super powerful but like I said it's pretty hard to land since it seems like any attack has priority over it hitting

It's satisfying, though. Hits like a truck.

[fleet pelican]

Side special isn't a very good tool except maybe against ledge?
I'd focus more on his grounded up attack and neutral attack, his jab, and his nair

[brisk fiber]

His ice breath is niche but you need to learn how to use it

Since it’ll be your only lifeline against some projectile heavy matchups

Laser vision is the same but instead of being a lifeline, learning how to use it opens up so many more combo (and kill) opportunities, and something else your opponent has to worry about

[brisk fiber]

how are we feeling today superman mains

[hollow vortex]

Feeling like I want ranked to come out

[fleet pelican]

From testing, the ice breath perk is barely more damage between one stack of frozen and 14 stacks. However, it is still more damage than even the snowball perk.
Fully charged g. neutral attack (no perks) - 16
w/ Well Rounded - 17
w/ Pugilist- 18
w/ Snowball - 19
w/ 3 stacks frozen + Break the Ice- 21

w/Pugilist, Snowball, and Break the Ice (3 stacks) - 25

[fleet pelican]

Also on DI away near ledge:
Jabx2 -> down attack -> IAD sair -> jump nair

Can loop jabx2 -> down attack -> jabx2 to carry across the stage as well

[verbal gate]

why does iron giant have a 0-death on us 😭

literally naired to the top of the stage and dead no mashing saved me

[pseudo shuttle]

This needs a nerf

This guy

Bro jus armors through everything

Like

[verbal gate]

perfectly balanced imo they should give him super super armor where he can tank 2 hits isntead of just 1

[untold delta]

You're a WW main 😭

[summer ridge]

God this character is so funny

The amount of rage quits I’m getting while playing Superman is insane

People really hate this character

Literally just nair-plane into the blast zone is hilarious

[verbal gate]

just recovery grab->dodge->nair->faired a batman

like that is lowkey ridiculous

[summer ridge]

People also spam dodge and jump out of hitstun and get clipped by nair again

4th rage quitter

[verbal gate]

bro let me choose the THROW DIRECTION

LIKE

I CAN'T EVEN CHOOSE LEFT OR RIGHT

WTFFF

[summer ridge]

5

[summer ridge]

I wanna say that’s due to the awful 30 frame buffer

[verbal gate]

i think it is, sometimes i get a choice but if i input while it's landing then i think it just screws me over

[summer ridge]

Yeah I’m hoping the next patch adds back adjustable input buffer

[fleet pelican]

you ever release aerial side special too early and just... lightly toss them into the air

[sudden geyser]

Putting ammo on lazer when it's pretty bad is insane

[verbal gate]

i legit can't even see the lazer anymore idk if it's cuz im on 21:9 aspect ratio

unlimited lazer would be nice because people tend to camp a lot nowadays

just sitting on the other side of the map throwing attacks out without ever coming towards me

[oblique wind]

As a IG main, I think the MU against Superman is even

[brisk fiber]

nah supes demolishes

atleast everywhere that isnt the highest level

its a much easier matchup for superman

[verbal gate]

ww fairs me 6 times -> I'm fcing dead

[fleet pelican]

I live for the corner carries as this character wow
Hit it on Jason and Batman today

So many Jasons online right now btw, prime bullying time

[trail osprey]

Please give Superman's jab more range

And make omni throw a perk or something. Less knocback and damage or whatever, something to give him something man

[brisk fiber]

omni throw perk wouldnt be too bad

but superman isnt in that bad of a spot

[stable pulsar]

It's so weird to go from Superman to Harley Quinn.

"All in a days work~" to immediate language filter violations with Harley. (Worth disabling the language filter for her or Rick alone)

Still, I really like Superman's personality in Multiversus. Yeah, it's more or less his default personality but he's so charming.

[summer ridge]

I've gotten by far the most rage quitters while I'm playing Superman, so I'm not sure he's much better

People one-and-done me when I play Shaggy, but they straight up suicide or disconnect and decline rematch when I'm playing Superman

[brisk fiber]

real

superman can be extremely oppressive

so if you dont know his counterplay he feels suffocating

[summer ridge]

Yeah, I’ve had far to many people autopilot jump after getting hit by nair which just allows me to get another into sair for stupidly early kills

[glossy moat]

Because hes a dumb af character to go against

[summer ridge]

I mean yeah he kills you off one read

[eternal rover]

lol I constantly lose with Superman so can’t relate

[desert saddle]

Bc he's a B-A tier. Play bugs or ww, maybe gizmo, if you wanna win

[vocal scarab]

Supes has some matchups where he feels really unfair and other times he gets gimped pretty bad. He's still on the upper end of "good" characters mind.

[desert saddle]

He's low end of mid ngl

[eternal rover]

lol he seems bad but he’s my fav character

[stark sandal]

Learn to abuse his armor

When you’re use to characters having combos and actually doing stuff Superman is hard

Just turn of your brain for Superman

[eternal rover]

lol is there a good how to vid

[brisk fiber]

I might be able to find one but really just be a bully

And learning the timing of his ice breath / sniper punch / laser vision

[summer ridge]

The best way to play from my experience is to read dodges and kill people for it

Dragging people into the blast zone with nair sair kills extremely early if you can get a single dodge read off stage

[brisk fiber]

Yeah supes is good at killing from a lot of positions

Especially with sniper punch perk since it goes nearly 3/4 of the stage

[summer ridge]

I’ve found it’s a bit too easy to react to against good opponents

But if it does land, it kills at like 40

[brisk fiber]

It’s really fast but it’s so fast that Superman mains slow down just to try and get an accurate hit

But if you are playing Superman how you should and scaring them with your armor

You can reliably read them backing up nearly every time you close space

[summer ridge]

Utilt into read airdodge with fully charged uair

[sudden geyser]

The finn mu

Is so bad

[fleet pelican]

Laser, not even kidding

The moment they start charging, hyper hop and bait them to release it

Makes the mu so much more doable

[vocal scarab]

Nah

[sudden geyser]

When they buff this character

I will be happy

[crimson mango]

Hey, does Superman have any true combos?

[desert saddle]

Side tilt into the other hot of side tilt

[crimson mango]

Like side tilt into dodge into side tilt? Or side tilt, pause, side tilt?

Usually I play off prediction, but when I go up against higher skill level opponents that just kinda do the same true combos, I start wishing I knew about some myself 😭

[desert saddle]

If you hit side tilt after it finishes you do a hit that's undodgeable without outside means

Like how most side tilts are true combos besides maybe marvins

[desert saddle]

Just finish the jab combo and it's usually true

[crimson mango]

Alright, thank you

[desert saddle]

I'm good but I don't know many combos (level 7 superman btw)

[fleet pelican]

Reliable combos that I've found:
Jab x2 -> down attack -> jump nair (DI in) / dodge jab x2 (DI out) / IAD sair (DI out)
IAD sair -> jump nair
landing nair -> dodge jab/up attack/IAD sair
landing dair -> jab
up attack -> up air

[summer ridge]

Full drift nair -> sair is is also true at lower percents as a confirm off stage

[fleet pelican]

killing people at 30 off the side with that is so funny

[desert saddle]

WHAT WIZARDY ARE YOU SPEAKING

I just button mash tbh and I'm winning

I don't REALLY button mash but that's the best way to explain it

[fleet pelican]

do you know about

1. DI
2. IAD
3. abbreviations for attacks (ie nair sair jab)?

[desert saddle]

3, yes, the first 2 I dont

I'm just like low average. I'm not the best, but I'm pretty bad

[fleet pelican]

DI is just the opponent holding a direction while getting hit that makes them get launched more towards that direction
IAD is dodging diagonally up and cancelling into an attack, which makes it an aerial attack along the ground

[desert saddle]

Cool. I might not ever use it tho

[fleet pelican]

try setting a bot to "Dodge away after hitstun" then do jabx2 -> down attack -> IAD side air

it's the start of a super cheesy kill confirm

at very low damage

[desert saddle]

Idk how to IAD 😭 I'll be fine tho

[fleet pelican]

dodge diagonally up while standing on the ground

and do an attack right after you press dodge

[desert saddle]

I might be able to learn it

[summer ridge]

IAD isn’t that difficult once you get used to it, but you honestly don’t even necessarily need it to be good

[muted wyvern]

Not a supes main but I keep getting side tilt into down tilt spammed across the stage by every Superman I come across and I have no idea what to do. DI doesn't appear to do anything and I can't seem to dodge anything at low percents. This can't all be true, I must be doing something wrong here

[brisk fiber]

Just play neutral

[hushed parcel]

Doing the flying artillery strat with my friend is hilarious. I just hit jake with 2 side specials at 20 and do 80 dmg and kill him

[muted wyvern]

"Just play neutral"? So all that is true?

[summer ridge]

The jabs into dtilt are guaranteed at lower percents yeah

But it’s not true if jab is stale

Or if Superman is in burnout

[muted wyvern]

Maybe I can jump out of one of those. The matches all blend in together so idk if I remember dodging around it and getting hit anyways. It seems like if you get ground/wall bounced that anything after that is guaranteed which is why I wondered if it's true

[brisk fiber]

idk enough to tell you if its all true or not but you have to exploit supermans neutral

its held up by string cheese and hopes

[muted wyvern]

Bro I main Jason, there is no neutral T.T

All I got is hope

But seriously I was doing better once I spaced around more and bait his approaches. Stages with platforms make this manageable too, I just needed to know about the combo cause it sucks to get hit hard from stuff you could do something about

[summer ridge]

Oh rip Jason is kinda doo doo

Hope he gets buffed next patch

[pale canopy]

Better than Lebron

[brisk fiber]

yeah jason is a bad matchup for superman since he isnt good at stopping supes from just doing whatever he wants

and he doesnt have anything to really pressure superman into not doing what he wants

so supes can spend years in neutral planning how to approach and if it goes well you get like 50 damage for free

[summer ridge]

Idk I don’t think Jason has a single winning matchup

[muted wyvern]

Makes sense that bad character does bad against good character. Play neutral better truly all I got. Thanks for the info tho. Helps to know what exactly makes a bad MU

At least LeBron looks dope doing whatever it is that he does

[raw sun]

Is up special into up special true?

[hushed parcel]

No lol

[desert saddle]

Not even all of the up special is true to itself

[unborn sparrow]

random question, but could someone explain to me how superman is good?

i see him ranked like b, maybe even a tier on tier lists. how do you figure? hes a pretty predictable character with stubby hitboxes

[summer ridge]

He has armor on a lot of his attacks (armor is significantly better than it was in beta), he’s heavy and lives a while, he hits hard, and his advantage state is really good

His only real issues are that his neutral is predictable and his combo game isn’t as good as the top tiers

[unborn sparrow]

it might just be me, but even though armor is better than it was in beta im not seeing a ton of results with it. armor-breaking perks are used a lot now, and armor breaking moves are a thing.

and what about his stubby hitboxes?

his jabs to be honest aren't great

and most of his aerials aren't either

[summer ridge]

I mean, that’s his issue. His range isn’t great and his neutral is linear

But he can kill off of one read in advantage because moves like nair just carry into the blast zone and grounded side b kills at like 40 with the perk

[unborn sparrow]

running generalist right now cuz i dont have him bought, but its actually taken me a while to kill with superman

at least more than what you're saying

[summer ridge]

So the biggest thing Superman really likes in terms of perks is last stand

I don’t think any of the generalist sets have it

[unborn sparrow]

it doesn't help i've been told superman is a super easy character, yet im losing 70-80% of my matches

[summer ridge]

He’s easy to mash with in lower levels where people just mindlessly run into your charged armored attacks

[unborn sparrow]

i am at a low level, though..

[summer ridge]

Your opponents might not be

[unborn sparrow]

well that's just god awful matchmaking, then

but i wont blame it on the matchmaking

[summer ridge]

The biggest tips I can say are to pay attention to what your opponents are doing when you hit them

If you notice someone dodges immediately after you hit them, delay your next hit a bit

If someone jumps, jump with them

[unborn sparrow]

i mean this is the kind of stuff i do, yet still end up losing like 3-1

[summer ridge]

If someone spams attacks, attack first

Superman definitely struggles against the top tiers like Bugs, Marvin, Wonder Woman, Joker, Morty, etc

[unborn sparrow]

cough marvin?

[summer ridge]

Yeah Marvin is really good

[unborn sparrow]

not a top tier

but i can see bad mu

[summer ridge]

He’s an anti-meta character

He’s only good because he counters a lot of the characters that are strong currently

[unborn sparrow]

oh yeah. how am i supposed to land his moves? i can land some jabs but that's it.

[summer ridge]

Use IAD nair

[unborn sparrow]

i try to do that and end up using uair or sair 😭

[summer ridge]

If you dodge diagonally upwards and then attack, you can do an aerial as close to the ground as possible

[summer ridge]

Use the dedicated button for neutral attack

That’s what I do and it helps a lot

[unborn sparrow]

huh?

u mean the trigger?

or wtv its called

bumper

im not sure

[summer ridge]

If you go into your controller settings, there should be a button listed for “neutral attack”

You can change it to whatever you prefer

[unborn sparrow]

yeah im pretty sure ik what ur talking about

it feels pretty weird to incorporate a button just for neutral attack, though. i tried it with marvin and it didn't work out too well

[summer ridge]

I play using an Xbox controller, so I have attack as A, specials as B, and neutral attack as X

I use bumpers/triggers to jump and dodge

[unborn sparrow]

im on ps5

square for attack, triangle for special, x for jump, bumper/trigger to dodge and bumper/trigger to neutral attack but i dont use it often cuz it feels kind of weird

[summer ridge]

On PlayStation controllers, my controls would be X is attack, O is specials, and square is neutral attack

And I’d use L1 to jump and L2/R2 to dodge

I have those mapped because it’s similar to how I’d play Smash

You don’t have to copy my control setup

Whatever is most comfortable for you

But I would recommend having a button to have easier access to nair

It’s one of Superman’s best moves imo

[unborn sparrow]

ive landed it like

3 times ever 😭

[desert saddle]

They will run into your air side special, and will for a while. It won't always work at every level tho

[desert saddle]

Yo your binds are goofy

[brisk fiber]

he kills really really really easily

and he is tough to kill

and he can turn any bit of overaggression, again, into another kill opportunity especially if its offstage

and he has armor too so every time you approach you need to figure out how to get past the inevitable armored heavy

and then his ice breath and laser vision too to help is map control?

superman has atleast a fighting chance in a good amount of matchups that would otherwise be bad and matchups that are average HATE fighting superman for the aforementioned reasons

[unborn sparrow]

idk, i can kill easy against newer players that dont know the mu

with like

grab into air uspec. and jab into utilt kills at 100-120 depending on the character

[unborn sparrow]

i find that a lot of people just dodge the laser vision

and i only really use ice breath for its anti-projectile properties if u wanna call it that

im not sure what moves to use in which situation, i think thats my main problem

most of my damage comes from jabs which i have a bad habit of using jabs WAY too much

i just dunno any other good approach options

[brisk fiber]

side air is usually fine but superman is not an approacher

[brisk fiber]

yeah it takes a lot of training mode to use it and ice breath effectively but its worth since it combos into your upair quite often

and if you are good at using it the person youre facing has yet another thing to think about which helps your main plan of sniper punching them to death in neutral

[unborn sparrow]

people dodge sniper punch, easy. ive only landed it a few times ever and they were lucky

[unborn sparrow]

how would i use ice breath effectively? takes way too long to actually build freeze meter, and you'll rarely if ever get full stacks

i can see how laser vision could be good though

[summer ridge]

You don’t use ice breath against opponents directly. Use it against projectiles because it freezes then in place

I don’t think it works on the largest projectiles like Bugs rocket

[fleet pelican]

I've been experimenting with just applying minimum ice stacks for the perk since there's barely any difference between max stacks and one, but in general it only works against light projectiles

really easy to hit opponents stalling ledge

[brisk fiber]

it actually has deceptively long range

and its always better to just barely miss it (and reset neutral) than hit it while getting punished bc you are too close

its for sure niche though compared to laser vision

[brisk fiber]

sniper punch perk makes it a bit easier

treat it like a max range fully charged heavy thats ridiculously fast and use it while mindgaming

[stable pulsar]

I asked her a few days ago and I am seriously not convinced his side special is not good.

I sent a poor Gizmo to the shadow realm multiple times at 50-70% just with one well timed one.

On specific fighters I think it can ringout super early, and considering how tanky Superman is he can last well into 100% if you are careful, giving him massive damage advantage.

[unborn sparrow]

which perk? sorry i havent read up on the other perk, only the sniper punch one

[fleet pelican]

Superman does more damage if the opponent has stacks of frozen on them

[unborn sparrow]

ohhh

which perk would u say is better?

i imagine sniper punch is more consistent while the other one is a little more niche

[fleet pelican]

I haven't played with the other one so idk, I've just been messing around with the ice breath one

I rarely use Sniper punch when I play Superman anyway so I'm really not sure

both are very good against an offstage opponent

[brisk fiber]

i have both sniper punch and ice breath perk builds since (assuming that the ice breath perk isnt as weak as people have been discussing earlier) matchup is important

[fleet pelican]

read through this, hope it helps you with your perk setups

[brisk fiber]

yeah this is the post i was referring to 😭

sniper punch clears i thought the damage would be a lot more impressive

[fleet pelican]

I wouldn't underrate 2-3 extra damage on every move, but I agree that it's not super impressive

Especially since the stacks go away so quickly

[brisk fiber]

it would be good if it was on every move but the condition is way too specific

and in matchups where it matters you do not want to be caught using ice breath too much

it has to be triple or even quadruple the damage for it to be in line with the sniper punch perk

[unborn sparrow]

i imagine against characters with a mid neutral game, slow approach characters, or mages this would be a good perk

[desert saddle]

I can only think of LeBron

[unborn sparrow]

not all of those traits

just one

[desert saddle]

Mages, and mid neutral. LeBron is totally a mage even tho he isn't

[unborn sparrow]

marvin is another i could think of

[desert saddle]

No, yeah, you aren't wrong. (3 negatives 1 positive, and message ends out positive. English is amazing)

[sudden geyser]

What are the buff chances

[brisk fiber]

hard to say

originally i was hopeful since superman has been nothing but nerfed since his release in the beta 2 years ago

but supes is still pretty viable so he might have a backseat for a bit while other ppl (JOKER) get balanced

[summer ridge]

Probably pretty slim considering Superman isn’t nearly as bad as Jason, Lebron, and Jake

It’s more like Superman will get better due to top tiers getting nerfed

[hushed parcel]

Yeah also Velma gotta make a comeback

Also people like to complain on Twitter so IG might get nerfed lol

[verbal gate]

he has a 0-death true combo at low percents with up special near ledge->dodge->nair into blast zone

absolutely stupid

feels like old supes a lil tbh tho so i kind of like it

[summer ridge]

Is that nair guaranteed? It’s never worked for me personally

[unborn sparrow]

im not sure why

but

nair feels like supes WEIRDEST move for me

people say its one of his best

but i cant ever land it

[verbal gate]

it's prob because of how his movement works. Supes has one of if not the best dodge in the game, when you dodge you also carry some momentum, just walking up and trying to nair probably isn't that effective unless you're catching someone or playing defensively, but if you cancel out of dodge->nair you just become a flying brick wall

[unborn sparrow]

i do both of these

and still end up missing 😭

[verbal gate]

it's also good because it multi hits so it's easier to catch people's dodges and also because it carries so you can take people off the map with it

[unborn sparrow]

sometimes ill be in the entirely wrong direction

if i try to boost jump into it i overshoot

[verbal gate]

it's not like it's his best move because it's easy to land, it's his best move because it's multihit and especialyl lethal near the edges

[unborn sparrow]

but i should be landing it more than 0 to 1 times in my games 😭

[verbal gate]

if u want we can run some supes mirrors although I can't guarantee i'll even be using nair effectively lol

i'll try to tho

[unborn sparrow]

im down. just know i play a reaaaaaaaaaaaally bad superman (didnt even know that was possible cuz hes an easy character)

i mean i dont know any combos or anything

[verbal gate]

nah me neither it's all free flow lol

[unborn sparrow]

alright my ign is

rageonimgone2

[unborn sparrow]

im getting on rn

[verbal gate]

:3

yo how do i start this

@unborn sparrow gleam anything?

[brisk fiber]

its not true especially not generally like that

there probably is one but the conditions are way more specific than just "at low percent" otherwise it likely isnt true

[verbal gate]

feels so good to hit though 😩

[brisk fiber]

yeah 😳

love getting early stocks

since then you can just sit there in neutral and watch them stress out knowing they have to approach through armor

[glossy moat]

Shouldn't be a thing to begin with

Or just have it not last so damn long

[brisk fiber]

i mean its balanced since you can easily whiff punish into a kill combo

[glossy moat]

The armor in general shouldn't last long af is what im saying, of course you can whiff punish, but against a sweat superman, have fun with trying

[brisk fiber]

your whiff punishes just need to get better

or you need to stop being scared of going in

if they arent biting your bait attacks then you arent making them pay for letting you get too close

if they throw out armored attacks every time then you arent whiffing enough (or youre just running into all of them / not punishing)

[glossy moat]

I whiff punish for them to just dodge or they can just simply cancel the attack so whatever

[brisk fiber]

if they are doding you arent really whiff punishing because you arent punishing the attack they throw out 😭

just work on your timings friend