Steven Universe

[frigid verge]

Steven is broken

[trim scaffold]

And is saying Steven isn't broken.

False

[frigid verge]

I’m starting to question meow knowledge of the game

He said all of Rick’s attacks are good lol

[stable pendant]

which ones arent

[frigid verge]

He has some of the worse frame data

[trim scaffold]

All of Steven's aerials have double digits amount of startup.

[frigid verge]

All of his ground attacks aren’t good

[trim scaffold]

And he's allegedly broken.

So really poor frame data isn't a deal breaker.

[stable pendant]

hes a little on the strong side along with rick

[frigid verge]

Yah not forward air why lie

[stable pendant]

theyre both like in the same tier

[trim scaffold]

I believe that is frame 16.

[frigid verge]

Why lie

It’s not frame 16 lol

[trim scaffold]

Okay.

How fast does it come out?

I'll save you the time and effort of answering that.

Because I'm willing to bet you don't actually know.

That's not a problem of course.

[frigid verge]

Ik it’s not frame 16 that’s a fact

[trim scaffold]

I can just double check.

Someone did all the work for us.

[frigid verge]

Bc that’s what the slowest jab in the game is

[trim scaffold]

Yeah and?

Steven Sair is one of his slowest attacks.

In his entire moveset.

[frigid verge]

Yah no it’s not

[trim scaffold]

Shout outs to Higa

[stable pendant]

rick has like the most broken jab in the game

[trim scaffold]

Nuh uh

[frigid verge]

It’s his most brok move

[frigid verge]

Imma assume u don’t play the game

[trim scaffold]

Uh huh sure....

[stable pendant]

do u close ur eyes when u play?

[frigid verge]

Rick’s jab is officially the worst in the game

[stable pendant]

like genuinley

[frigid verge]

He has the slowest jab

[stable pendant]

his jabs massive

[frigid verge]

With the most end lag

[stable pendant]

garnets jab is tiny and slow

[frigid verge]

Garnets jab is faster than ricks

[stable pendant]

where the jab startup list

[frigid verge]

Rick’s jab got gutted

That’s how I know ur a casual

It was number 1 before the update

Rick has a slower jab than ig with the same amount of end lag btw

Let that sink in

[stable pendant]

Yea still a massive jab

[frigid verge]

They nerfed the size to bruh

[stable pendant]

my point stands

[frigid verge]

U didn’t even read the patch notes

[frigid verge]

How Rick has the worst jab in the game

Rick can’t whiff punish ppl

U have to predict everything

His portal combo can get a max 50 dmg

[stable pendant]

thats insane

[frigid verge]

But makes u wait 25 secs to use the move again

[frigid verge]

Not for using up one of ur best specials

[stable pendant]

it should for 50 dmg

[stable pendant]

50 dmg for a combo is insane either way

[frigid verge]

So it’s not broken than

[trim scaffold]

Well look on the brightside.

Now you know how Steven feels.

👍

[frigid verge]

Not even

Steven is broke and has like 5 broken moves

Rick is literally b tier

[stable pendant]

rick has like 10

[stable pendant]

A tier

[trim scaffold]

Yeah but that doesn't mean he's not reading you like a book.

That's why they land so many Nairs

They know what you're gonna do before you do it.

[stable pendant]

as garnet even if u predict they just dodge thru it and u lose

[trim scaffold]

I mean in that case I just charge Nair until the dodge ends.
True

[frigid verge]

I’m assume both of yall are jsut rage baiting

Cuz yall jsut tapping at this point

What rank are u meow

[stable pendant]

arent u the one who comes in here every day calling them scum

[frigid verge]

As I should

[stable pendant]

i dont play ranked

[trim scaffold]

You mean like you?

[frigid verge]

Yah that makes sense I could tell

[stable pendant]

tell what that i dont like bo3

[frigid verge]

It’s not much but it’s honest work😭🙏🏾

[stable pendant]

Not sure what u can get outta that but do what u will

[frigid verge]

Yah idk y I could tell u we’re hard stuck copper 5

[stable pendant]

What rank r u

[trim scaffold]

Copper 5 isn't even a rank.

[stable pendant]

😂

Best and brightest Rick main

[frigid verge]

I’m grandmaster

[frigid verge]

That’s the point 😭🙏🏾

[stable pendant]

He tryna play it off

[vague hollow]

Honestly it's not worth it to argue with people who complain about Steven. Most of them don't even believe what they're saying. Best to just leave them be. And if the constant complaining becomes too much, we can always have a moderator look into it.

[frigid verge]

Yall Steven mains are actually delusional

Everyone in the community understands how broken ur character is except yall

Than yall do the old I can’t make a good pout. So let’s get the moderators involved cuz my feeling are hurt

[stable pendant]

What’s super broken about him

[frigid verge]

His aerials are completely broken

Kills early

Watermelon Steven

Ring move

Shields

Only person with a block

[iron remnant]

my ffa goal is to get watermelon steven out as much as possible to see how high ko numbers can get

[stable pendant]

That’s really the only broken part

[stable pendant]

WW shield is much better

[frigid verge]

Yah but his sair is quick no endlag deflects and kills and has good range

[iron remnant]

the forced lift on hit can suck sometimes in doubles

[trim scaffold]

Before you said everyone in the community saying he was broken.

Keep your story straight my dude.

[trim scaffold]

Anything can sound broken if you only talk about the good stuff, and lie about the bad stuff.
Like I could say Rick's Jab combo is quick, low lag, long ranged, disjointed, anti-airs, leads to above average damage and even kill confirms.

[trim scaffold]

Yeah as in they can just fail to combo with the auto tech.
It can feel like flipping a coin if you can even do Jab into Nair without getting a second bounce.

[trim scaffold]

Anyone in this game can kill early.
What matters is if they're consistently klling early which would make way more of a difference.

[trim scaffold]

Melon Steven is broken in the fact that it doesn't actually work.
Outside of the healing, blocking people with his collision and being a meat or I should say 🍉 shield getting use out of his before he gets sneezed and dies in another coin flip.

[trim scaffold]

Ringo isn't in this game sadly 🤷‍♀️

[trim scaffold]

Those are also broken in the fact that they really don't know what to do vs Auto Tech.
Sometimes you can tech after one shield bounce or don't tech at all.
It's really freaky

[trim scaffold]

Armor Killer will let any move with 2 hits or more beat it cleanly, and the cooldown takes 5ever.
It's effectiveness is rather MU dependent then overpowered, and if a character sucks at dealing with it then they could ask their teammate to help out.

[river bay]

Not only that but really the only thing the bubble does it block knockback

[distant yew]

Thats Steven case

[trim scaffold]

Nah this is Steven's case.

[dusk yoke]

Steven is most definitely in a good spot rn. Maybe not in terms of full moveset but his good moves very much outweigh the bad ones

Sair is super strong and disjointed, nair is..nair, dair is fast and a good spike, u-air is strong and kills well, up special is basically WW up special but again, aerial down special is still really good, side special is this games Steve blocks, Watermelon Steven regardless of the downplay is a very strong tool, etc

Obviously some of his moves like jab or up tilt aren’t as good

But again good moves outweigh bad

[trim scaffold]

Define fast in this context rq.

[slate carbon]

i feel like big better describes most of steven's aerials

[river bay]

Only one that really isn't Big is Dair

[slate carbon]

yeah his aerials are all def above average the hitboxes are just a bit oversized

[fossil lance]

Yo

[stable pendant]

bru i played u earlier

[fossil lance]

you did?

who?

[stable pendant]

the garnet

who couldnt get any hits in

[fossil lance]

Sausage?

[stable pendant]

yes

[fossil lance]

happens sometimes

you played well

[stable pendant]

its just a garnet thing

Finns got that up move where he runs around

[fossil lance]

lil tip

don’t let me breath

[stable pendant]

I tried that

it didnt work well

if ur on we can do 1v1 so i can pracitce a little

[fossil lance]

rush me with gauntlets and sticky bombs

[stable pendant]

u just dash thru it and i get combod tho

[fossil lance]

follow behind with dash attacks and shoulders

[fossil lance]

this @stable pendant

[fossil lance]

give me a min mayhaps

you down for 1v1?

[stable pendant]

yea

[stable pendant]

i said it here 😂

[fossil lance]

ok

ill get on

[stable pendant]

do u wanna host or should i?

[fossil lance]

i gpt it

@stable pendant my games updating

[stable pendant]

no worries

[fossil lance]

play a few sets rq

[stable pendant]

wait there was an update?

[fossil lance]

havent used my play station in a while

[stable pendant]

ohhh

i keep getting the same bugs bunny who keeps cheesing

[fossil lance]

@stable pendant ready

gonna check my settings rq

[stable pendant]

ok

just inv me

whats that new movement thing called

where you spin in a circle

[fossil lance]

dssh dance?

wave dash?

[stable pendant]

yea

r u there

[fossil lance]

yep

my game is having a spasm

lemme retry

[stable pendant]

huh

i just like lost control of my character

[fossil lance]

@stable pendant you going?

[stable pendant]

i sent u a message

in dms

[fossil lance]

wrong emote

sorry

[frigid verge]

Scum

[iron remnant]

thanks1

[frigid verge]

Your welcome

[trim scaffold]

*You're

[pale flume]

Ah ah, Yro'ue*

[frigid verge]

😡

[vague hollow]

This is the only correct spelling.

[granite beacon]

@frigid verge hey someones tryna steal your job

[vague hollow]

It's just not the same. 😔

[frigid verge]

Nah I’m still #1

But I got a couple other ppl doing it… I started a movement fr

[granite beacon]

idk it doesnt feel the same unless you do it

[frigid verge]

Keep doing it brother 🙏🏾

[heady needle]

not true unless it came from the karate kid himself

[frigid verge]

Scum

[granite beacon]

and balance was restored

carry on everyone

oh wait someone usuallys reacts with the baby and the bottle do that too

[vague hollow]

Eh, I stopped caring a while ago. I usually just wait for the other guy.

[granite beacon]

i'll do it this time

[vague hollow]

Thanks. 😎

[stable pendant]

who do u play

[stable pendant]

which one

just wanted to know

[trim scaffold]

Could help you learn to beat him.

[haughty forge]

What should I be doin' against a superman

Feels like I can't go 10 seconds without turning into combo food because of his armor

[trim scaffold]

It's a lil complicated.

But a lot of supes auto pilot up-tilt or up-b when they whiff cause it'll beat a lot of our moves.

So a fully charged Nair with armor crusher can stuff that out if you got the foresight.

For best results place a shield nearby so you can wall cling to it to cancel your recovery frames or cut off their alt escape options because they can't dodge thru shields.

[frigid verge]

Play a different character scum

[haughty forge]

but... the power of friendship 😢

[frigid verge]

Never friends 😡

[haughty forge]

oh, okay

thanks for the help lol

steven doesn't have alot of armor break attacks

[heady needle]

Superman is heavy enough that jab 1 > nair > up air is pretty consistent. So I use that to keep him in the air so I can fish for up air and up special. I don’t like to play grounded against Supes because you’re combo meat

[haughty forge]

gotcha, stay in the air mostly then

[frigid verge]

That’s Steven gameplan against every character lol

Scum

[river bay]

Why yes it is because his ground options suck!

[trim scaffold]

All of his aerial options are single hits.
If he's always jumping in on you, and you're playing Lebron or Taz. Then you can charge a neutral attack on reaction to a lot of his apporach and he'll have a harder time getting in.

[distant yew]

Nair doing 16 dmg fully charged and having insane range 🥴

[vague hollow]

Someone actually got the damage right- That's a step in the right direction! ^-^

[light night]

i thought it was 20 with snowball + 5%

i don't run bounce bubble anymore ever since the 3 hit shield change

[vague hollow]

That's true, most it can do is 21 IF fully charged, hits the sweet spot, the enemy bounces on the ground, and you're running all damage buff perks.

But just fully charged sweet spot alone only deals 16 damage.

Y'know, to be fair, it's pretty hard to miss the sweet spot. I think its size should be reduced, and it should deal less damage personally.

[light night]

yeah

[frigid verge]

Scum

[feral grove]

🎉

[trail spoke]

playing steven is so tiring idk how anyone could main him

playing passive is not for me

and he has so much whiff too

like i’m winning but still

i want to main him but this play style doesn’t feel like me

[trim scaffold]

Ping Pong lol lmao

But jokes aside Steven while a viable character isn't really a very
not sure to how put this nicely...
Well made one

Like they nerfed his 2 best neutral tools in Sair & Shield Surf without much to compensate.
So he's gotta use more Nair.
They made his Dair way more committal so if you wanna spike someone.
You gotta use more Nair.
With the changes to auto tech his shield bounce setups only let you get one good hit before they tech in most situations.
What's the more damaging move he has?
🙂

[trail spoke]

Nair

even then the end animation for nair can be punished a bit

idk i spam kick a lot lol

it feels like a dash attack but it can go off stage

also in maps like the court there’s too much tech and they get out of combos

[trim scaffold]

It's only fair to acknowledge it's weaknesses.
Uncharged is weak sauce outside of certain combos, It's got a bit of startup and takes even longer get to good charges, kills all of his momentum which makes using it aggressively way harder, burns your only ground bounce, decent amount of whiff lag, is a single hit and gets stuffed by any armor outside of a single situation.

[trim scaffold]

Having aerial burst options is lowkey underrated.

I didn't notice until I started using it myself, but being able to fling a hitbox forward without spending dodge meter is pretty cool.

It also gets me killed a fair bit so I still gotta workshop that

[trail spoke]

lol

[stable pendant]

too bad they nerfed his shield ability its such a cool mechanic

[heady needle]

I started playing Agent Smith because I hated getting whiff punished and now I appreciate having moves that at least hit lol

[stable pendant]

play shaggy

[frigid verge]

What whiff are yall talking about lol

And what game are yall playing where yall talking like Steven isn’t a top 5 character

SCUM 😭🙏🏾

[vague hollow]

Multiversus. Idk what you're playing. 💀

[trail spoke]

pick up another character that isn’t rick bro, this isn’t rick and morty versus

[stable pendant]

💀

[frigid verge]

Shut up and kiss me bro

[trail spoke]

[frigid verge]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-baby-austin-powers-randy-gif-22757770

[trail spoke]

embed fail 🤣 🤣

🫵

[frigid verge]

😡

[river bay]

What changes are we hoping for in season 3?

[trail spoke]

auto tech not being affected as much by shield

[dusk yoke]

While I do genuinely not like bouncing around on shields I do agree with this, auto tech in general is very annoying and hasn’t been all too “game changing” to me yet

[vague hollow]

All teching has done for me is ruin combos and reward my opponents with cheap hits. If it has to stay, I hope it becomes input dependent. It'll still have the same problems, but at least it'll be based on skill, so it won't be so bad.

[trim scaffold]

2 bounces.

Maybe a visual indicator of when a bounce is spent.

I would normally have like a laundry list of changes, but I think I'd jiinx if I think about it too hard.

[dusk yoke]

Legit

Also make it a tech you yourself has to do

Not an auto tech

Sometimes I genuinely don’t want to tech

[vague hollow]

Exactly! You should only tech if you actually use a timed button press, like in other games.

[wild rampart]

nairs hitbox is generous, sair as a whole is very very generous

[slate carbon]

his grounded moves mostly his aerials are fine

if a bit overtuned/oversized

[distant yew]

Autistic Chinese Morty

[vague hollow]

Real

[trail spoke]

steven ukelele emote when

[stable pendant]

that comes with the garnet thigh crush emote dlc

[dusk yoke]

LMAO

[indigo walrus]

[pale flume]

Bro how do we tell the morty mains that they have it easy but they just suck at the game

Like all they need to do is spam and not spam dodge constantly to win

Best recoveries, best area control, best zoning-

They just arent doing it right

[slate carbon]

or that steven is an anti zoning character and that maybe he seems a lot stronger than he is when your playing a zoner

[pale flume]

Literally all they need to do is not spam their grenades

Just keep using those broken moves

[merry zealot]

It looks like air moves won’t be floaty anymore but I kinda hope all of Steven’s air moves stay floaty to stay in character

That’s going off the assumption that air moves won’t be floaty

[distant yew]

Isnt Stevens entire thing counter zoners 😭

[distant yew]

Lil bro what broken moves 🙏

[distant yew]

Steven has better area control

And counter Mortys zoning

Shields

Nair

Side Air

Watermelon Steven

All counter smth abt Morty

[vague hollow]

Tbh Steven and Morty suffer from a lot of the same problems. It's always strange seeing their mains complain about each other. 💀

Well it is less strange to see Morty mains complain about Steven. It's a hard matchup.

[pale flume]

They basically need to run around to win bruh, it's strange that any morty mains complain about the character

[river bay]

I do hope the changes give steven some actual combos

[granite beacon]

i was curious about the air dodge attack changes, if we can move more horizontally while charging nair, we are not gonna hear the end of it xD

[river bay]

yeah....

[granite beacon]

yea double looked at the footage for when they did it with velma, if Steven gets that much speed when charging nair, ohhhh boy

[trail spoke]

when they said reworks i thought they were gonna talk about steven ngl

[granite beacon]

we still could get something but i doubt it

[distant yew]

Wait

Have u lost to Morty as Steven?

Actually outplayed lol

[pale flume]

You dont even have a name and you cant type properly, I am not listening to what you have to say lmao

^ coping

or bait

Because nobody is that ridiculous

[trim scaffold]

Floaty aerials making approaching harder so I doubt they'd buff everyone else but leave him in the dust.

[pale flume]

I can see it

"Yeah its in character, who cares if its another nerf" -PFG

ok goofy

[vague hollow]

Dang, second time someone with no name got banned within a day after trying to start something in this thread. Interesting pattern.

[distant yew]

Do u mean me

I do have a name

[pale flume]

He got banned? That is aboslutely hilarious

[vague hollow]

It seems like it. That or they backed down and deleted all their comments for some reason.

[trim scaffold]

Welp they buffed Nair.

This can surely only go well.

[vague hollow]

At least he only got one nerf. That's less than usual.

Actually ykw that'll also blow over super well. Looking forward to the Steven Discourse for S3. 🫠

[river bay]

I don't think playing around with his air attacks are gonna fix some of his issues

[granite beacon]

They buffed his best move

Incredible xD

This is gonna be goooooood

May as well embrace it at this point

[fossil lance]

you get to stay top 6

[granite beacon]

We are the villains

[fossil lance]

I lose half my KB

guess I should dust off my level 10 Steven

[granite beacon]

Nairs only downside was that it halted all air momentum

But now

Nowhere on the stage is safe to run

And the developers continue to make Steven succeed by being played in the most degenerate way possible

[river bay]

I do find it funny that the character that has floating powers best stuff is in the aor

[slate carbon]

i wonder if they just realized how insane his aerials accidentally were and embraced it or if its intentional

[granite beacon]

It’s in character for sure but a very linear playstyle

[granite beacon]

His grounded moves in beta weren’t good either so idek

Beta Steven was just zipping around on shield surf like a maniac doing bubble cancel combos

The good times

I just really was hoping they would make Steven more interesting and thought provoking to play again

[slate carbon]

dude i miss when bubble was like a wall so you could block people, i remember running at people with tether and just holding dodge so they bounce off of me

[granite beacon]

And when you could drop on top of someone holding wall with bubble and kill them

[slate carbon]

i could never decide on the name for that

[granite beacon]

I just called it the t pose

One of my friends called it the hellevator since it brought you straight down

[slate carbon]

the amount of times id misspace that and just die

[river bay]

I liked to called it the Weighted Bubble

[granite beacon]

So many cool things we had

And now we just press the funny nair

[river bay]

I used to call our old sheild bounce combos the iced over trampoline

[vague hollow]

Ykw Beta Steven was still frustrating to play, but I do miss when he could do more than spam air attacks to win.

That said, Steven main villain arc sounds lowkey fun. The more people complain, the more I'll go online and spam Nair. 😈

[granite beacon]

May as well double down

@frigid verge I am scum and I’m proud

[frigid verge]

😡

Imma do things to to u😈

[granite beacon]

[pale flume]

So, does this mean that the nair glide technique is back?

If so, then holy hell. If not, that still sounds like we'll get some better horizontal movement for nair in general

[trail spoke]

Steven Universe
● Air Neutral Attack
○ + Now maintains more momentum when executed as part of a dodge attack
● Air Up Attack
○ - Now maintains less momentum during attack start-up
● Air Down Attack
○ + Now maintains more momentum during attack start-up

[trail spoke]

i’m surprised they touched nair it seems to be on everyone complaint list

[pale flume]

Theyre either not listening to the community at all or do listen and want to mess with us lmao

[rough sigil]

Natural air not nerfed 🗣💥💥💥💥 great job

[light night]

👶

[trim scaffold]

Steven Bomb got buffed?
Universal buffs go a lil crazy, but up-air got hit so it balances out....
maybe?

[trim scaffold]

People can complain about stuff regardless if it's actually a problem or not.

That being said Nair is a lil redonkulous not gonna lie

[trim scaffold]

The Support Days of Steven were the saddest .

That was back when like up-air killed at 120. 😭

Back when Melon AI do anything would be a christmas miracle.

Back when Nair was....

Okay Nair was arguably better in beta, but that's neither here nor there.

TL:Dr Beta Steven had like busted support value at the cost of being half a character so barely anyone played him.
Now that he can outbox half the cast while still having cracked support everyone hates him.

[distant yew]

Killing at 120 aint a big deal

[trim scaffold]

I know

That's da problem

In 2024 he kills Morty's at 90 on batcave and never looked back.

And that's without the sweetspot.

[pale flume]

I was able to get the sweetspot with up air on batman or shaggy or something at 87 or something and it didnt do anything except send them into the blast zone. Not a ringout, just hid their player model for a second

[heady needle]

stage dependent, but middleweight / lightweight characters die at 115 on average. I don't think that's bad when bugs' bat kills at 80

[trail spoke]

Additional Changes
● Wall/ceiling terrain bounces no longer count as a terrain bounce for triggering an automatic tech. Only floor bounces count towards the automatic tech bounce threshold

is this a buff?

[trim scaffold]

Yes

[trail spoke]

yay

[pale flume]

This means we can pinball wizard people on the crumulon stage again

[jaunty orbit]

Dropped Steven

[indigo walrus]

👍

[pale flume]

Less competition ig

Name checks out

[stable pendant]

is steven less "bubbly"?

[wide flame]

So basically Steven can dodge into nair and go across the map

[haughty forge]

sooo

is steven better now

[distant yew]

Even better??? 🙏😭

[haughty forge]

I assume the air changes just make him

really good

[trim scaffold]

👍

[pale flume]

Ok, Steven definitely feels better to play as rn

A little less restricted with moving

[trim scaffold]

Steven's a fttawsbftma character now.

Which means he's likely about to get nerfed.

This move was not designed to be this mobile.

But it was fun while it lasted.

[pale flume]

Bro

What?

[pale flume]

What wild af acronym is that-

[trim scaffold]

It's a Tekken """"""archetype""""""
Where your character can FlyThroughTheAirWithSomeBull💩FromTenMilesAway

[heady needle]

I posted Steven's nair momentum in #clips message

it's actually so funny how fast it is

[pale flume]

Idk how much the movement changes are affecting the actual games but Im feeling a lot less stress while playing so far

Im doing pretty good

[trim scaffold]

I used to pray for times like this.

[heady needle]

the character feels a bit overtuned in an area that was already overtuned

[pale flume]

Id say, right now, nair is probably around the same level of balanced as the rest of the casts moves are

Sooo its gonna get nerfed hard soon

[fossil lance]

you were already top 6

[trim scaffold]

In doubles yeah.

I didn't play doubles.

Steven's probably the best enabler in the game, but when there's no one to enable. Half of the top-tier becomes irrelevant, and you have to start do heavy lifting yourself.
Spoilers: That involves a lot of camping.
Steven's best combo starters weren't exactly great approach options due to a combination of factors, and that's just not the case anymore. 🤷‍♀️

[stable pendant]

does steven just feel super heavy now???

wait

no i guess it was just this match?

[river bay]

Is fair 2 frames

[gentle yoke]

omg down air is usable again

[fossil lance]

singles as well

[trail spoke]

it’s funny how in local steven’s bot just nair spams

[trim scaffold]

As long as insert DC character existed that was a pipe dream.

[jaunty orbit]

You’ll do the same once Mordecai drops

[jaunty orbit]

Yo wtf Steven feels good again

[slate carbon]

its def bc of only ground bounces proccing tech and the air movement changes

[distant yew]

He was always good wdym

[light night]

keyword feels

[trail spoke]

his nair is too op because of movement

[jaunty orbit]

No he didn’t

[trail spoke]

it’s the same shi all over again

he charges up and he goes rolling in like a ball

steven isn’t fun to play and he isn’t fun to go up against

[haughty forge]

but maybe...

with the power of friendship...

[slate carbon]

Idk about u but I'm having a lot of fun as Steven, especially in 2s

[vague hollow]

Unfortunately I main PPGs now. I don't really know if Steven is fun this patch or not. 😔

Though I have done the super fast Nair once or twice, and man, is it good. 😈

[jaunty orbit]

Steven is actually good again

Ima still main Steven while picking up PPGs

I dropped him too quickly

Steven is easier for me to play without thinking than ppg

[gentle yoke]

bro i keep triggering auto tech for my oppenents

[pale flume]

"Good" is an overstatement

[trim scaffold]

Being viable and being good aren't the same thing.

[trim scaffold]

I'm not a big fan of Nair machine quartz demayo cutiepie universe, but I'd be lying if he wasn't easier to play.

[vague hollow]

Y'know it feels wrong not maining Steven anymore. He's my favorite character of my second favorite show, and I've sunk hours into playing him and I'm super comfortable with his moves.

Yet the moment I see a duo/trio character, my mind drops everything it knows, and I suddenly have to focus on nothing but those new characters from then on. 💀

[trail spoke]

lmfao i thought i was the only one who called him cutipie quartz universe

[urban radish]

Do Steven have any nice combos?

[trail spoke]

jab jab down

and um

that’s it

and then just kick spam the enemy

or spam nair

[vague hollow]

Spam Nair and Sair, especially with the extra momentum from this patch.

[wide flame]

Surf into dair nair ( sair for tech reads)

That’s mainly what I do nair spam is so boring I’d rather lose

[trim scaffold]

Close Hit of Jab into Nair
Practically a life saver.

[distant yew]

How does that work being viable is being good lol

[stable pendant]

Eh not really Jason is good but not viable if that makes sense

[trim scaffold]

Being good in a fighting game is what happens when you're ahead of the curve.
Being viable means your character has enough tools and options to see success without you requiring to be far more skilled than the person you're fighting.

Like if you're playing smash.
Kirby is a character that is viable for tournament play, but is far from a good character.

Granted Steven is really good in doubles format.

[distant yew]

Steven is both good and viable

And always was

[trim scaffold]

Nah he got power crept in 1s.

New Perk addition cook up, and most characters have the means to keep up with his current damage out.
His passive is not only nerfed, but in an environment where armor isn't as much an end all be all.
Characters who didn't have any armor breaks now can equip them instead of getting stone walled.

And Armor Killer is just way more versatile against him than the Beta's Armor Crush.
It lets any multi hit move get through the shield when they otherwise wouldn't.
Like Black Adam Sair or Arya Uair.

[stable pendant]

hes inconsistent

[trail spoke]

rework steven?

[stable pendant]

yes pls

[trail spoke]

give steven a boomerang shield

[vague hollow]

Give him BG Down Special 🙏

[jaunty orbit]

You make up combos as you go

Probably why Steven was easier for me to pick and play

Plus he’s tanky

[wide flame]

He’s one of the lightest characters how is he tanky

[wide flame]

He’s ridiculous in 1s too

[trim scaffold]

Because some characters don't take too kindly to bubble so he ends up living longer than you'd expect.

I think.

[trim scaffold]

Yeah he's pretty goofy goober.

[stable pendant]

doesnt for me

he dies at like

70-100

to some really dumb stuff too

[trim scaffold]

See that sounds about right.

😆

[trail spoke]

that’s how he is in the show though dude can fall from great heights can get slammed but he has the ability to float and jump really high i think they did a good job showing this

plus he’s chubby

[stable pendant]

BA jab almost killed me at 70

I was maybe a jump off the floor

not even high

and it was a tall map

[frank cradle]

You're not wrong, but it feels like they've taken a lot of good options from him too.

I don't think the nair was ever meant to have the burn but it was still good extra damage, and while I haven't played much of the new season I hear they added an auto-out to bouncing?

[slate carbon]

if you bounce someone off the ground twice they exit hitstun and autododge

[true lion]

I hope they nerf nair doing 28% of dmg while being that fast

Nvm I think nair does more than a kick of Shaggy with rage

[astral hound]

Oh steven players, how do I beat y'all as Rick

[slate carbon]

for nair to do that much damage, you have to run all damage perks, fully charge it, hit the sweet spot, and ground bounce

and even then i think it only at max does like 21

[trim scaffold]

No.
No it does not.
Steven Fully Charged Nair does 20.4 % with all dmg perks.
Shaggy rage side-b does 21.9% with none at all.

Why do we bother with "I think" head to the lab and check.
Is the training mode just for show? 🙄

[trim scaffold]

TBH I'm not even sure at this point. Been a while since I've played the MU.
Anything specific you're struggling with?

Maybe Melons or Bubbles or Neutral Special.

If I knew that it's a bit easier to help.

[astral hound]

uhm everything

theres a menace of a steven in aus, I think he's gm 20 something rn

ig just approaching him when he has shields and melon up

oh and shield surf

[trim scaffold]

Well then you're probably cooked, but I'll try.

[trim scaffold]

You can't break the platform shields, but you can break the walls.
Which should let you setup some lasers or meeseeks.
Yes Steven can reflect or destroy these, but he'll still be in whiff recovery so you can bait and punish those.

[trim scaffold]

To be entirely honest that move isn't very punishable given how Steven can jump cancel it at virtually any time.
It doesn't have a big hitbox and only covers the ground, so moves like Jab or Sair can beat it out.
I assume they'll try to mixup their options out of it so focus more on what they do next rather than when they use the move itself.

[astral hound]

Alr I appreciate it, much love

[wide flame]

Most stevens suck when it comes to dodging id frame trap them with jab they’ll always spam dodge

If you can bait them to using there cooldowns that’s great when they use nair theirs a frames when you can punish don’t approach if there using sair at all. When they in disadvantage (in the air) you can pressure than with flying meeseeks pretty well same them for whens he’s off stage

[distant yew]

Still insane

Gut both

[wide flame]

True I’d be fine if it only did 10- 15 max charge

[slate carbon]

w/o damage perks it does 15-16 damage based on ground bounce

[vague hollow]

Unironically I do think 16 damage when fully charged and hitting the sweet spot is too much, but only because every other character gets 14 or 15 in the same scenario.

[wide flame]

Still to much

[vague hollow]

Last time I checked it was 17 with ground bounce, but I'll have to check again.

[slate carbon]

your right i wasnt hitting the sweet spot

[wide flame]

Wish Steven had a better game loop they needa gut nair

[vague hollow]

Ah, yeah.

[wide flame]

All this update did was make his nair more absurd

[slate carbon]

fr it should be a combo tool, not an everything tool

[wide flame]

Makes his such a brain rotting character

[vague hollow]

I played a Steven that spammed sped up Nair yesterday. It still whiffed 90% of the time, but I truly understood the frustration...

[wide flame]

It’s like they don’t know any other button

Surf is such a good mixup option but people only use Nair

[true lion]

I was literally in my bed after playing, sorry I can't be in the lab all day downplaying steven 👍

[vague hollow]

Tbh surf is a good mix up, but I swear it loses to almost every up air. 💀

Though that is good to remember if I'm ever fighting him. Lol

[wide flame]

Yea you got floor surf that leads to around 40 damage combo and then you have air surf that you can go into sair

Way more options than nairman

[trim scaffold]

If they gut Nair this character dies.

respectfully

He's just not well balanced enough to work without it.

[wide flame]

I don’t care

I hate how he’s played

[trim scaffold]

Not to say he'll be useless.

Has the best passive in the game for crying out loud.
He just doesn't have a neutral, and plays more patient and slower due to having like 1 relavant combo starters.

[wide flame]

Hell still he top 10 in 2s

If they gut his nair completely

[trim scaffold]

Join the club we got jackets, but the annoying parts of him are still there.
He just sucks now so people play him less.
Hardly a solution it just shoves the problem under the rug.

[trim scaffold]

Hope you got some nice rest.
Stay cool. 👍

[wide flame]

Steven doesn’t suck bro what

[trim scaffold]

Yeah cause Nair is busted.

Can true combo into every move in his kit.

[wide flame]

No

[trim scaffold]

Comedy gold.

[wide flame]

Sair is also busted

His disadvantage state isn’t even a real disadvantage state

[slate carbon]

sair is just big

really big hitbox and high kb

[trim scaffold]

Yeah but Sair doesn't like start combos, lacks any timing mixups, is frame 16, loses to armor basically every time, and kills at fairly typical %s.
Far from a bad move but hard to carry a gameplan without something with a bit more kick.

Nair is the real trouble maker.

Does basically everything you'd want a move to do.

[vague hollow]

Yeah. Plus, Sair already got its hitbox size reduced so it hits less often now, and in all my testing, it still only kills after 100% from ledge, even when the blast zone is close.

[slate carbon]

sair is also very disjointed

[wide flame]

The ability to make walls always makes a character somewhat crazy even in beta he was good he just wasn’t played in tournaments until the end of beta

[vague hollow]

It is a disjoint, but one of the only ones Steven has.

[trim scaffold]

Comically disjointed. 🫡
Bends his whole body back and everything.

[wide flame]

The camping potential of Steven is insane 😭

[trim scaffold]

Sounds about right, but his shields were way bigger back in beta.

Or I guess they just forgot to size em up.

[wide flame]

Nah if they were any bigger it’d be more of a problem

[trim scaffold]

True.

IG wouldn't play the game.

Not to say that is a good matchup as is.

Funny enough his hitstun animation made Jab Nair Dair loops a bit inconsistent.

But the tech changes put him back on the floor so it's easier to land because his tech rolls are tiny relative to his size, and shields just block techs cause lol lmao
A bit of a hidden nerf.

[slate carbon]

the amount of restrictions on his upspecial spawning are kinda funny

[trim scaffold]

Remember when Steven had an infinte recovery?

Those were the days. 🤣

[slate carbon]

all the videos of people getting one stock as steven then going into a tiny corner near the blastzone until the timer runs out

[vague hollow]

I remember when they removed the ability to spawn infinite shields without stepping on a platform. The next day, I found out wall shield counted as a platform, and we could still stall forever. 💀

[wide flame]

When I’m stock tanking I literally go to the edge of the blast zone

Cause who’s gonna contest me

[jaunty orbit]

If they gut near he’s ass

Steven jab suck

[wide flame]

I’d be fine with that lmao

Nair isn’t healthy for the game

[jaunty orbit]

Yea idk what with this game and huge hitboxes

[jaunty orbit]

A lot of stuff isn’t

[serene pier]

From what I’ve heard from a lot of people, Steven is really good in 1s but absurd in 2s

[slate carbon]

pretty much

[trim scaffold]

IG is still here.
We're not gonna talk about unbreakable bonds?

[slate carbon]

i mean its def one of the more balanced parts of his kit just bc armor breakers get rid of it, multihits just burn it, but it can still be super powerful if used correctly

[hollow niche]

Cutest Character of all CN characters. I adore Steven Universe a lot.

[dusky raven]

how are my stevens doing tonight

about to hit grandmaster STVN

[indigo walrus]

The amount of people that chase me to the edge of the blastzone when im floating just to get dodge reversed sair is so funny to me

[elder rivet]

Release a guide 🗣️ struggle bussing

[dusky raven]

@elder rivet Watch the video "How to Play Steven Universe ⭐️ Multiversus Character Guide & Highlights" by Gordypow. One of my favorite steven guides

slightly outdated such as nair not counting as a projectile anymore. but mostly relevant.

fire vid overall imo

[elder rivet]

I've watched that before, mainly struggling to kill this season for some reason

[gentle yoke]

anybody having issues with up shield not being placed

[dusky raven]

hmm well i just say use your dodges to help follow up your air attacks, but dont overuse them. nair bounce off the ground to up air works well to finish sometimes. nair is also brutal on the edge. Especially if you tether right before going for it. You can also nair to a down air right there on the ledge if theyre too healthy to finish with nair alone. Tethers overall are a good option if theyre really weak. Not sure if that helps, but lmk if there is anywhere specific on the map you need help on.

Also, stevens elims should generally be at the top or bottom of the stage. Not really as common or efficient to ring out on the side imo, but very possible

@elder rivet

[stable pendant]

what r stevens bad matchups

[frigid verge]

None

Scum

[vague hollow]

Money

[heady needle]

In 1s, I feel like it’s sword characters (WW, Jack, Finn) and Batman.

In 2s, hardly any bad matchups except coordinated teams and imo Black Adam

[pale flume]

everything

literally everything

PFG literally just wants us to not ever play him

[true lion]

Nah bruh you are downplaying hard

[true lion]

Ww and Finn are probably the best characters against him, maybe ppg too, not sure about that

[pale flume]

im sorry that you're stupid

I really am

dont have the energy to deal with stupid rn with how much of it is already in mvs

[stable pendant]

ah

[true lion]

Wow, I didn't even said something bad, thx for being rude for no reason, guess I'm just calling a <@&882349260409032746>

[cold willow]

Do be mindful of others folks, Lets not start an arguement here.

[true lion]

I don't even understand why someone would call me something like that when I didn't agree to something

[pale flume]

Sorry Dad. Hey, while you're here, why dont you get this guy and everyone else who causes trouble here?

[pale flume]

like

[true lion]

Someone saying a word it's more problematic that someone that called me stupid, ironic

[pale flume]

Nothing? At all?

Thats what I thought

[serene pier]

How does Jason lose to Steven?

When Steven has better frame data, is generally faster, can camp him out

[pale flume]

By having giant hitboxes and the ability to negate everything he has

Also all the killpower

And being a better character than him

[serene pier]

Steven has solid kill power tho no?

Up air is solid at killing

Sair can kill off the side

[vague hollow]

The problem with Steven is consistency. He has moved that can kill, but they can be very hard to set up, or hit.

[serene pier]

But does that make him worse than Jason?

Black Adam is also super inconsistent but is still very good

I’ve heard the same from some PPG players due to multihits being an issue

[vague hollow]

I don't think it's possible to say exactly how good Steven is. He has very few good moves, but the ones that are good are WAY overtuned. He desperately needs to be reworked.

[pale flume]

Tell me you dont play steven without telling me you dont play steven

[serene pier]

Nair isn’t bad for killing tho

I believe so at least

Steven at least has decent kill confirms from what I’ve seen, jab jab up attack can kill or up air ladders

But what I can’t possibly accept and won’t accept is that he is the literal worst character in the game

[vague hollow]

Jab hasn't lead to up attack for several patches, and up attack, even fully charged, doesn't kill until around 120

[serene pier]

Gotcha

So he can struggle to kill

Tho also Marvin can struggle to kill

Smith can if he doesn’t hit his confirms

[pale flume]

Its horrible for killing

The only time youll ever kill with nair is when you could be killing by spamming something else

[serene pier]

Beetlejuice also has been said to struggle to kill

[vague hollow]

Nair isn't good for killing, but it's a BEAST for dealing damage. And I did learn it has decent KB, so I suppose it wouldn't be impossible to kill with, just REALLY impractical lol

[pale flume]

Oh brother

[serene pier]

So even if he does struggle to kill doesn’t mean hes bad

PPG can struggle to kill

If they don’t hit some specific things

And they are considered broken

[pale flume]

Steven struggles with everything

He has been hit the hardest with nerfs [because they hate him] so he went from below average to garbage

Pfg saw that people were still playing him so they decided to gut him even further

Now he's actual garbage and only people who are the absolute best at him can do anything

Dont worry, if you think he's good he'll be nerfed again and again and again

[serene pier]

You do realize hes also still one of the most played characters in doubles correct?

[vague hollow]

Tbh he is one of the best characters in the game for 2v2. But he doesn't really work as a fully functioning character. He's forced to rely on his arial moves and specials. (Though his shields are constantly nerfed. Except last patch.) He has no grounded options whatsoever. If his specials and arials were toned down, and he could do more on the ground, I feel like he wouldn't be such a huge problem for both people who main him, and people who fight him.

[pale flume]

Oh. Brother.

[serene pier]

Morty entirely depends on his side special and sair with having mediocre moves otherwise

Hes still considered incredibly good

[pale flume]

Being one of the most played in 2v2 has about as much value to this conversation as Steven to pfg

[serene pier]

When MVS is primarily a 2s game or was intended for it

I think that may be important

[vague hollow]

I know! It sucks. Steven and Morty aren't allowed to have nuanced discussions because "still broken tho"

[pale flume]

2v2 is for people who cant play well enough to do 1v1

Thems the breaks

[serene pier]

The main thing is I have a bias against Steven because he is literally Morty’s worst mu

[vague hollow]

literally me lmfao

[serene pier]

I’ve heard it by every single Morty in Mortycord

Alongside a Garnet main

[pale flume]

When you cant cover [insert "good" character here]s weakness in 1v1 or work around an enemy without backup, you play 2v2

And 2v2 opinions are about worthless so

[serene pier]

There are still 2s tournaments tho

Like a solid amount of em

[vague hollow]

Same here. I read pretty much everything in Mortycord, so I know VERY WELL how bad a MU it is lol

[serene pier]

And there is a good Steven mu, now I leave

[vague hollow]

I actually found a super old MU chart in the ~exclusive~ Stevencord that I think still kinda holds up. And yeah, he has surprisingly few bad MUs.

[pale flume]

Yeah, Steven vs Steven

[vague hollow]

Steven wins in that interaction +2

[pale flume]

Exactly

If I had to make a list of everything wrong with Steven itd just be his description

He is so garbage, but as long as there are players who are complete dogwater and use op characters as a crutch he'll always be garbage because the only thing they can do is whine

[90% of the streamers fall under this category]

[slate carbon]

armor heavy characters like superman since steven has trouble with armor

[timid mango]

nair nair nair

[pale flume]

Username checks out

[trail spoke]

is jab jab into down no longer true?

it was my go to combo but now everyone dodges the final

whats the point of down attack then

and steven dies so early now

i remember him living to 130 consistently

[true lion]

It's still true even if they di away

And steven is as heavy as batman iirc, not that heavy but he isn't light

Maybe you were playing against someone that apply weakened

[trail spoke]

garnet and ppg yeah i guess those are heavy hitters

[trail spoke]

am I holding down tilt for too long then

they kept dodging away

[heady needle]

It’s a tight window to be true. With buffer you’re more likely to buffer a charged down tilt causing it to be untrue

Even if it’s slight, it’s enough to cause problems

[true lion]

Oh yeah, also Garnet has insane things to kill early rn and ppg is straight up broken

And yeah, probably holding down tilt too long, as biscuiticus said it can be a problem of buffer, try to test it on lab

[trail spoke]

wdym by buffer

im confused

[trail spoke]

i guess i’ll never know

[elder rivet]

Steven is painful to play but def needs a rework to make him viable in 1s and 2s without being extremely busted in 2s and mid in 1s

[trim scaffold]

Pick Black Adam equip Armor Killer and go crazy.

[stable pendant]

whats bad about that matchup

[trim scaffold]

It should be

[coarse lodge]

Best perks for Steven?

[trail spoke]

do you have an issue going for it before? is there another go to combo i should be using

[elder rivet]

Bounce Bubble, Snowball, Speed perk, Pug

[trim scaffold]

Combo of factors
BA got solid armor, even better armor breaks, really good anti-airs + juggles, insane mobility options that Stuball can't reliably keep up, doesn't get edge guarded basically ever.

Honorable mentions to WW & Supes since they have most of those as well.

[trim scaffold]

If it drops in too many situations you might wanna go with the normal Jab finisher.

I use Jab into down attack to make more distance at the end of a string or to cover my back if another enemy is trying to punish me mid combo.

[trim scaffold]

Generalist, Snowball, last stand, and pug is my go to.

Against heavier characters like IG I like to have press the advantage or bounce bubble to possibly take stocks a bit sooner.

And against armor junkies like Jason or Supes I like to have armor crusher

I've heard some people praise Green Thumb, but Melon's an inconsistent move so use at your own risk.

[slate carbon]

characters heavier than steven
Smith, BG, Batman, BA, Garnet, IG, Jake, Jason, Joker, Lebron, Reindog, Jack, Shaggy, Stripe, Superman, Velma, WW

[heady needle]

The game allows you to queue up the next attack you’re going to make within X frames of executing. This way you don’t have to press inputs frame perfect to queue up attacks. The issue is that when you’re in a combo and if you’re rapidly pushing the buttons, it can register an attack to have a small charge to it vs. executing uncharged

And in terms of combos, a more optimal combo for damage and aerial advantage might be jab 1, nair, up air

[pale flume]

Stevens normal jab is barely true

Meanwhile every other character has 1-2 seconds of hitstun for like. Every attack

[frigid verge]

SCUM

[visual acorn]

ion think playing steven is healthy for you

[pale flume]

With how horrible he is, its basically signing up to go insane

But he's my favourite, so

[vague hollow]

Tbh I think you should take a break for a day or two. You seem to be really stressed lately.

[pale flume]

This is after the break I took

Steven doesnt get buffed just because im not playing, as funny as that would be

I seem stressed because every patch that affects Steven forces me to basically completely relearn him

When that happens, my ability to play him well doesn't matter and the glaring issues or mvs make themselved apparent once more lmao

[vague hollow]

Yeah, that's the Steven experience, unfortunately. Most either get numb to it, adapt, or move to a new main. Tbh pretty commendable that you're sticking with him.

[pale flume]

I mean, I cant be #1 Steven by playing Joker lmao

When I adapt, we get hit with a patch that messes up Steven, then I can barely use him, and then I adapt again, and the cycle repeats

and I wont ever get numb to it because my general competitive nature keeps my head going, thinking of new/different strategies. Id also like to try and get peoples attention to perhaps get a group to help fix and buff Steven

[vague hollow]

Yeah. Tbh we've been too quiet. We need to get more attention somehow. Maybe compiling all his problems, and explaining what we'd like to see. Though I still think he doesn't need just buffs, but a rework.

[pale flume]

yeah

He is just all around too broken to be fixed with some buffs, really

[vague hollow]

He relies exclusively on a couple arials, and a couple specials, making him annoying to play, and to fight.

[pale flume]

[People are being quiet because theyd rather say woe is me and stop playing him rather than do anything to help him]

[pale flume]

not to mention his air attacks are also very readable, as well as neutral special

Shield surf is also useless

[slate carbon]

Complaining about Steven is met on by a much louder "he's S tier" so I just gave up and have been playing a lot of BJ and Jason

[pale flume]

thats why you gotta complain lOUDER lmao

[vague hollow]

Yeah tbh I'm just waiting for someone to come in, read one or two of these messages, and start trying to start an argument. It's getting old and predictable at this point.

[slate carbon]

Well then they get louder, and there's more of them so it works

[pale flume]

Im not big on twitter to get anyone on pfgs attention to say "hey, we all play Steven and he sucks", and no one is willing to band together

[pale flume]

They dont play him though, which makes us have the argument of experience

[slate carbon]

And it's not like PFG gives a hoot seeing as how often he gets half baked stuff all the time

[pale flume]

There's no way to counter "you dont play Steven enough to know his weaknesses", unless you resort to playground type insults lmao

[pale flume]

if theyd test their characters they'd learn

[learn how to make a charater, that is]

look in #clips , im gonna share some of the brokenness

[vague hollow]

It is important to consider how it feels to fight a character. You never know how strong your main is until you fight them.

[pale flume]

I know exactly how weak he is

He's weak and slow enough that nair spam actually works on him in high ranked

It just depends on who hits first

[vague hollow]

Tbh you kinda got me. The subject is getting pretty subjective.

And I was gonna say it's important to consider that some characters have a hard time working around Steven's moves, but in every other case the response is that you should adapt. Why should Steven be any different?

[serene pier]

Tho then Steven players should also be able to adapt

Because he has good tools

Morty and Taz are in the same boat and are considered mid tier at minimum

[vague hollow]

But there's a huge difference between adapting to fighting against difficult moves, and adapting to an entire kit being weak.

[serene pier]

But Steven’s whole kit isn’t weak tools, he has solid aerials alongside some solid specials

Hes supposed to be a hard character

[vague hollow]

I do find it unreasonable to make players adapt to only relying on his few good moves, though. And I believe he's more "hard to play" than "hard to master"

[slate carbon]

"You're just downplaying your main"

[vague hollow]

I'll never forget the time I was discussing the damage and kill percentages of his moves, and someone cried downplay. 😭

[serene pier]

I can recognize that he isn’t as absurd as people say, but he isn’t garbage

[vague hollow]

That's true. I do have to disagree with the notion that he's F tier, or anything like that. Though he is very annoying to play, and I hope we can get some changes going.

[slate carbon]

That would mean more than changing the frame data of a single move.

[vague hollow]

I mean- Yeah, his entire kit needs work.

[pale flume]

"You're uplaying your least favourite character"

[true lion]

Steven having a reward because you are hitting him it's unfair

[trim scaffold]

You wanna make the Steven mega doc?

[trim scaffold]

We our downplaying our main that comes with the title of being a main.

Just look at Harley mains.

[pale flume]

Just look at all the mains who actually do downplay so that theyre always getting buffed 💀

[coarse lodge]

What even happened to Steven

Last time I was playing, he was considered high tier

Did he just get gutted or something

[pale flume]

He was never good, but they did indeed make him worse

[fossil lance]

Steven is still great

last 2v2 tournament 6 out of the top 8 teams had a Steven

to which Steven also took first place

and Steven also has some 1s tournament placements

[light night]

i run 5%, snowball, movement speed, pugalist

[pale flume]

No, he isnt. There are only great Steven players

But yeah, keep saying that, he'll get nerfed all you want 💀

[trim scaffold]

He used to get like 60% combos off his Jab or Nair at the right % range, but then the tech chases axed that.
So now his damage output is still insane, but it's less about combos and more about his tech chases.

[trim scaffold]

He was top 10 when the game came out.

[fossil lance]

he was like top 7

[trim scaffold]

Real

Like I didn't know about Jab Nair Dair or Shield Surf lead into to 42-50 % until after like season 2 was started.

[fossil lance]

all of his specials are great team utility

[trim scaffold]

Knowing that now,
Putting that back when he had basically instant shields, and TFD worked on Nair.

That wouldn't be so not okay.
He'd basically be two touching over half the roster.

[fossil lance]

and only character with a shield

that he can activate at any range for his teammate

[pale flume]

Oh Brother

Again

[fossil lance]

Steven bomb also a great defensive tool

[pale flume]

This guy just doesnt know what he's talking about in general.

[trim scaffold]

Steven Bomb is a great defensive tool tho?

It's just on a cooldown so it's not a consistent option.

[fossil lance]

i do

i play steven

this character is good

[trim scaffold]

Remember when Steven Dair just comboed into itself
Then they removed that, but he still had really good damage output

I honestly kinda miss it.

Launch Steven was lowkey my soul mate.

[pale flume]

Beta Steven was broken and still better

[trim scaffold]

Never found a character that felt so good.

[fossil lance]

bc he was broken lol

Dair into nair

[pale flume]

Like half of his stuff worked, just like now. But unlike now, you could combo as him back then

[trim scaffold]

I hit up-air on Harley at 128 on batcave and she lived.
I'll pass.

[fossil lance]

prenerf shield

when you couldn’t punish steven neutral dodging

[trim scaffold]

Not untrue, but he still got bugs looped all the same so I could cope with that.

[trim scaffold]

Beta Steven could like neutral dodge in 15 frames or less. (I made that number up it was just really fast to start and end)

Dude was the anti-fun character.

[pale flume]

Happens to me all the time

Like. Every time I play

[trim scaffold]

He had some of the best sustain and enable in the game at the cost of being kinda awful on his own until he got a hit on you.

[trim scaffold]

Got a clip?

[pale flume]

If youre not running press the advantage, the opponent wont die until near 200 damage

[trim scaffold]

Nair into Up-air kills Morty at 90 on Trophy's E.D.G.E

lol
lmao even

[pale flume]

I had a ton a few days ago, but none of them really showcased anything uncommon so I deleted them

[fossil lance]

still kinda is

cuts down on the stage

spawns a punching bag

[trim scaffold]

Iron Giant
Real.

[serene pier]

That mu still is garbage for Morty lol

[trim scaffold]

Big change being the people playing him aren't stuck with mid buttons the whole game.

Like Beta Steven Cooldown Side-b would basically send you 1/8 the distance it goes now.

[pale flume]

Morty also has the best recovery in game, next to rick. He's also super fast, even without dodge, and has so much bs to keep you away or bring you in

[trim scaffold]

It was worthless

[trim scaffold]

Pretty sure we have a better recovery than Morty.

[serene pier]

Morty has the same speed as Garnet

[fossil lance]

Morty has like garnet run speed

[pale flume]

If you have a morty without dodge at 120 damage, then yeah, nair to up air will get him

[trim scaffold]

I almost feel bad for Morty players.

But also they tea bagged the most out of any character back in season 1 so my pity well ran dry.

[serene pier]

Honestly just gut dirt

[trim scaffold]

Thank you for doing your homework.

[serene pier]

And then I’m chill with him

[pale flume]

Do you realize that something big looks slower while moving or are you goofy?

[trim scaffold]

Why does that matter?

[fossil lance]

Morty isnt fast. Steven just counters him bc side special lol

[trim scaffold]

Ong.

[fossil lance]

no snakes or nades

[trim scaffold]

Morty's like got good dodge distance, but can barely chase people himself.

[fossil lance]

i think your actually dumb

[trim scaffold]

I'll just be floating at a 45 degree angle in front of the lil guy, and live to like 130% because if he doesn't land dirt up-air kills way later because with no weaken.

[fossil lance]

character plays defensively, Steven ignores his defense

[pale flume]

Tell that to the other guy

[trim scaffold]

Why?

I already know the answer.

Being slow = bad thing to have

Rules of nature.

[serene pier]

What I’m saying

Was that Morty ain’t fast

[fossil lance]

Emerald is a D1 downplayer

[serene pier]

His main strength is his projectiles

[fossil lance]

your character has never left A tier come full release

[pale flume]

Alright, Im just gonna go watch YouTube, you guys are draining my bandwidth.

Holy hell.

[fossil lance]

Your character has some of the highest tournament placements

[serene pier]

Even without being good in 1s he is always absurd in 2s

[trim scaffold]

This is an edge case. We need to make a divison 0.

[fossil lance]

he is good in 1s tho lol

A tier even

[serene pier]

You didn’t even see the convo from a bit ago

[trim scaffold]

I mean he's alright like....

See what I didn't tell you is that I'm a D3 downplayer.

[fossil lance]

don’t downplay on me

I actually like you

[trim scaffold]

I place him smack dab in the middle of the tier list.

[fossil lance]

thats kinda crazy

[trim scaffold]

Because Shaggy and BA bully the crap out of us.

[serene pier]

You didn’t say he has no good mus tho

[fossil lance]

putting him with Jack is silly

[trim scaffold]

5 spot above Jack bare minimum.

Man now I sound like a Jack downplayer.

😭

[serene pier]

I mean Jack isn’t that good

[fossil lance]

Jack is mid in 1v1s

[serene pier]

So its fine

[fossil lance]

problem being

he’s insane in 2s

hes a walking stage hazard. Like taz

[trim scaffold]

He has no good MUs tho.
Until you run into a T&J
Or a Rick
Or a Jason
Or a Jake
Or BG
Or a....

I think I see the problem now.

[trim scaffold]

IDK about that. Taz side-b can stuff armor, and Jack can't say the same.

He's a strong 2s character, but I'd say he's in a fair spot.

When I lose to a Jack I feel outplayed. 🫡

[fossil lance]

Jack side special also has no cool down

and is bigger

[trim scaffold]

That is true.

[granite beacon]

i see people arguing but I'm too lazy to read someone summarize

[serene pier]

Argument was Steven was bad, that is false, argument ended

[granite beacon]

Yea Stevens pretty much has been great since day one, he just has bad things about him people ignore cause his good tools are so polarizing good

the fact that half of his entire kit was nerfed in a patch and still was better than over half the cast speaks volumes

Season 1 was so fun cause we just didnt let people play the game lmao

i was just mad at the people yapping about steven who had no idea what the heck they were talking about, saying stuff that nair had armor on it or that Melon was the best special move in the game

[serene pier]

Melon is just annoying tbf

[granite beacon]

oh for sure but people were talking like melon was making it a 2v1 like the ice climbers, bro can throw 1 punch xD

hes a great meat shield tho

[trim scaffold]

Melon Steven is trying out for the secret service.

[pale flume]

Steven is bad, people upplaying him because of denial/wanting to get him nerfed

The only reason people think he's good is because they dont play him in ranked 1s [where you actually have to try against people as good as you] and the good players who use Steven are making up for his downsides because they're good

[granite beacon]

I dont think hes bad but i'll respect your opinion

[pale flume]

Rokay. I respect yours, then

[stable pendant]

hes not bad hes inconsistent

He can be really good

or really bad

[pale flume]

Being usable in the right hands 25% of the time doesnt mean he's good, homes

[trim scaffold]

If he's usable in the right hands 25% of the time then the win rate wouldn't be this high.

[vague hollow]

Tbh I'd really like to help make one. I could probably get a solid framework, but I'm not sure I could figure it all out. Lol

[dusky raven]

Emerald I think you just suck ass

[trim scaffold]

Doubt it's a skill issue.
It's a perspective issue.

[dusky raven]

sounds like rage bait to me

or urjust delusional

cause stevens top 3 easily 😂

[vague hollow]

Believe me, it's not rage bait.

[serene pier]

I’ve seen plenty of people complain about characters being inconsistent

And mostly that just makes a top tier to a mid tier

Not a top tier to a bottom tier

[pale flume]

The 25% is how many players count as "in the right hands"

[pale flume]

<@&882349260409032746> Mommy he's being mean 🥺

[dusky raven]

wah wah

[trim scaffold]

If only 25% of his players can make him good then that's just how fighting games work.

Bad players are always gonna exist, and complicated characters are always going to have a skill floor that makes it hard for the skrubs to play at a competent level.

[dusky raven]

dude the thing is. I used to main Jake who is notoriously one of the worst characters in the game. I was a top 5 Jake player last season. and I NEVER had EVEN CLOSE to the win rate I have with Steven rn. He is a good character.

[pale flume]

Stevens skill floor for 1v1 feels pretty high, and the skill cieling feels nonexistent

One of the worst characters? Jake being shy of A tier doesnt mean he's the worst lmao

[serene pier]

Hes not

[pale flume]

And Steven hanging right above F tier with Velma doesnt mean theyre good

[serene pier]

Whose tier list are you looking at

[trim scaffold]

Truth be told that's a pretty poor frame of reference.
Quarters look like dollars if you've never seen a nickle.

And over half the cast seems top-tier compared to Jake.

[serene pier]

Fair

[pale flume]

My own tier list bruh

[serene pier]

Then thats based off opinion

[pale flume]

No way

For real?

This changes everything

[serene pier]

My main thing is someones own tier list means absolutely nothing

[pale flume]

Oh, hey, a quick google search shows some popular tier lists with jake around A and B

[dusky raven]

Jake is C tier or worse. Thats why I swapped from him. Basically all the top jake players except Musty stopped playing him.

[serene pier]

How recent

[pale flume]

Well, if you cant take my word for it, look at other tier lists

Lets see. 4 months good enough for you?

I mean, not everyone is making these things after every patch, so thats what you got

[serene pier]

Who is it made by?

[pale flume]

Just checking in here. You are in the top 100 for 1v1. Literally at 100. And, oof, N/A win rate in 1v1. You only play 2v2, with a WW to cover all your weaknesses

[dusky raven]

i dont really care ab a tier list someone idk made. Im telling you most of the top ranked jake players swapped because he got gutted with nerfs

[pale flume]

Yeah, most people switch the nanosecond their main is nerfed, its not new

Where do you think all the smith players came from?

[pale flume]

Oh, hey, your top fighters are Jake [592 wins] Steven [106 wins], and then Agent smith. [11 wins]

Personally I've seen enough, and heard enough

[dusky raven]

these are horrendously incorrect lol whered you get those numbers from