Steven Universe

[trim scaffold]

At least you're not saying Top 5.

[jaunty orbit]

Crazy so many ppl are waiting for PPg

[dusk yoke]

Yeah lol

They’re basically confirmed already but I’m still hype waiting for them

[jaunty orbit]

Honestly atp I’m thinking they’re gonna be a BP character

I want to drop Steven and main them

[dusk yoke]

BP?

Oh battle pass

Yeah they probably will

[vague hollow]

Yeah, I'm definitely most excited for them! I'll probably main them if they don't use the Pokémon trainer swap mechanic. Even then though, I still might. 😅

[raven spindle]

Tbh I would expect PPGs to play more like the TMNT from Injustice 2. I feel like Ben 10 would be closer to Pokemon Trainer mechanically

[slate carbon]

i was thinking they'd play like Ice Climbers

[raven spindle]

That too but you have to think, Ice Climbers were a technical Marvel even for smash, they had a lot of trouble bringing them back. Don't get me wrong, if PFG can pull it off with not two but Three characters, coler me impressed but. 😬

But I guess they did Tom and Jerry good so

Who knows

[velvet pier]

I’m thinking more pyra and mythra but with three people

[raven spindle]

Ooh that too

Pyra mythra was supposed to have rex in there too but they couldn't pull it off

[velvet pier]

But idk if this game would be fun by the time Ppg drops

[river bay]

It was supposed to be Rex and they would try to recreate the blade system from 2

[slate carbon]

you say that like this game has a time limit on it being fun

[jaunty orbit]

It does

[velvet pier]

It does

This game gives me zero reason to play it over other fgs

[jaunty orbit]

When fall has a ton of game releases

[velvet pier]

😭

[jaunty orbit]

This too

[velvet pier]

Not even my friends want to give this game a try

[jaunty orbit]

I use to think brawlhlla was bad till I started playing MVS

I took brawlhalla for granted

[jaunty orbit]

This as well

Public reception of MvS is already in the dirt

MVS players just act like it isn’t

[velvet pier]

I used to think that nasb2 was bad till I played multiversus

😭

Like I want the game to succeed

[slate carbon]

the only thing this game has is being free

but that also super hinders it

[velvet pier]

Lmao fr

If this game was 10-20 dollars

It wouldn’t sell

[jaunty orbit]

NASB would of done wonders

If it was f2p

Would of been a Danny phantom main

[jaunty orbit]

It’s the reason they have a player base

[velvet pier]

So much more people would of loved the game

But

Nasb1 gave 2 a bad name

So ppl didn’t bother

[jaunty orbit]

The price tag did for both lmao

[slate carbon]

it hinders it bc now they have to find a way to make money, so they lock a LOT of stuff behind paywalls/ridiculous grinds

[jaunty orbit]

Would you buy a paid multiversus tho?

I know I wouldn’t

I would watch a few clips and then forget the game like I did NASB

[velvet pier]

Yeah honestly

[slate carbon]

admitedly no

[velvet pier]

Honestly depending if they didn’t make it live service and added the characters everybody wanted I would

I wouldn’t even care if the game plays the same

[slate carbon]

tbf the game is already kind of at the stage of trying to hide how bad its doing since they disabled media share in the clips channel so people would stop sharing how bad the servers are

[velvet pier]

Wym you can share media in clips channel?

[slate carbon]

clips and images

[jaunty orbit]

Lmao

[jaunty orbit]

Doesn’t matter how much u try

Honestly we’re just coping for the game to get better

[slate carbon]

PFG must really be sweating bc this is literally their first game as a company, so they gotta make this count

[jaunty orbit]

Explains a lot

[trim scaffold]

No shade on the Injustice 2 idea, but they how a whole equipment function that this game doesn't have.

[slate carbon]

this is the first thing you see when you look at PFG's website

Player First Games is a studio of veteran developers focused on serving players through the use of player first thinking. We're based in Los Angeles with remote team members across the United States.

[trim scaffold]

Unless you'd mean pick your PPG with perks.

Which sounds less then ideal.

[jaunty orbit]

“Veteran”

[trim scaffold]

Not in a million years no lie.

[jaunty orbit]

Tbh I hope that all 3 of the PPG are on screen at the same time

Instead of the pokemon trainer thing ppl been asking for

[jaunty orbit]

😂😂

[slate carbon]

their website has their (apparently 8 person) team and most of their information says they each have over a decade of experience working on other games

like how Tony Huynh was a combat and systems designer and lead for 15 years on 2 God of War games and LoL

[jaunty orbit]

Then why did none of it translate

[slate carbon]

idk Platform fighters are a lot different than God of War or League

and they have to do all the funding themselves

and appease WB

idk if they've expanded the team since they first made their website (it still says MVS is coming 2022 lmao) but they seem to also have a much smaller team than other big titles

[visual acorn]

the 5 billion aryas invading my game in ranked 😭

[raven spindle]

Nah, I meant more like, the main fighter would be Blossom, but your attacks would incorporate Bubbles and Buttercup into them as you attacked

The way your main fighter was Leo, but the rest of them would jump out and do attacks then jump back off screen

[velvet pier]

I don’t really like that idea I think they should be able to switch out

And have diff special moves

But have the same tilts

[raven spindle]

Idk enough about PPGs fr to make much of an argument for or against any play styles fr

I don't really know any specific "powers" one of them have over the others

[velvet pier]

Honestly if they can make Velma have a fun and cool move set they could really give them anything

[raven spindle]

I meaaannn. I wouldn't really call Velmas moveset fun OR cool but to each there own fr, no hate on the Velma enjoyers

[velvet pier]

I think her kit is pretty fun honestly

For what they had to work with

They cooked

[dusk yoke]

Basically mini supermen lol

Though Blossom has freeze breath and Bubbles can talk to animals for whatever reason

[raven spindle]

Does only blossom have the laser vision too?

Bc it sounds like they could just make Blossom the Pichu to Superman and call it a day lol

[dusk yoke]

I think all three have it

I’d explain how I have a pretty good idea how they’ll work already but we can’t talk about leaks 😔

[trim scaffold]

Yeah but at least you had to option to play the other Turtles and seem them interact with other characters.

How would I do that for your example?

[light night]

they really gotta buff dtilt

it just seems so obscure to use

[vague hollow]

I pretty much only use it against WW because they somehow always forget armor break moves exist. 💀

[velvet pier]

I only use it to float really

And dodge some characters jabs

Or do you mean grounded dtilt

[velvet pier]

You actually use that to break armor?

[slate carbon]

They mean grounded

[velvet pier]

Oh well honestly I think jab jab into dtilt is Steven’s best basic string

They should let Steven cancel his shield

[vague hollow]

It's the only purple move I know he has. 💀

[velvet pier]

Well yeah but I don’t think it’s worth using that move in neutral really

That’s why I was confused

Normally ur supposed to pop neutral special and run really

[vague hollow]

It can just be useful to bait WW into using Side Special and hit her with spike wall. 🤭

[velvet pier]

Honestly every time I tried to use down tilt in neutral I just trade

[vague hollow]

Oof, yeah. It's pretty small. 😔

[velvet pier]

Uh

Yeah

[vague hollow]

Yeah

[velvet pier]

Anyone wanna spar?

[timid mango]

Bruh can I enjoy a game without Toxicity

Me and my friend played a ranked match I was Steven and he was Garnet and we lose to a jack and smith and they say the match was embarrassing for us like we lost by one point

[velvet pier]

Uh yeah because Steven and garnet is annoying team comp and ppl like being toxic when they win

It just happens

[timid mango]

No we lost

They won

[velvet pier]

I’m aware

[timid mango]

Oh well thanks for replying

[vague hollow]

Yeah, toxicity sucks. It especially sucks when a game encourages toxicity.

👀

[stable pendant]

Jack and smith are both pretty op garnets super weak

[remote geode]

Are the other two Steven chads on top of the leaderboard with me in here?

[river bay]

You must've hated Pyra/Mythra in smash then

[trim scaffold]

We don't exactly have a choice.

No multi hits that don't have a huge gap between them.

You can run 2 fast to block or armor crush if you really want to.

[remote geode]

What are you talking about?

Reading so much dumb stuff in here. "Honestly every time I tried to use down tilt in neutral I just trade" Like what??

[vague hollow]

Ngl I think this chat might have some of the most confusing takes I've seen. Obviously not all the time, but some of the things said in here are just... Interesting. 💀

It's why I don't talk in here very often. 😅

[trim scaffold]

It's uh....

Kinda overcommiting in neutral so that's to be expected.

The Marceline fan should ideally be whiff punishing with it.

Like dodge forward into down attack if a Wonder Woman with her shields up whiffs a Nair or Jason with rage tries to mist walk.

If anyone wants to count that as neutral I won't stop you. 🤷‍♀️

[warm temple]

we need a boss version of steven

the monster that steven becomes in the sereis

series

[stable pendant]

Can someone explain how to get easier KO's with stevens abilities?

[mossy olive]

https://discordapp.com/channels/879970800734711808/1009538859417215147/1268551340167135252 steven mains you are not allowed to downplay your character ever again

[stable pendant]

that happens with garnets hitbox ive noticed it too

not to say his hitbox isnt also massive tho

[trim scaffold]

You lived Steven Bomb at nearly 140% then extended your hurtbox.
Deal with it.

/j

[stable pendant]

almost like it was a tall map and garnet is tanky

[tidal swift]

jab > nair >upair it's a good kill confirm

[stable pendant]

what percent?

Like I struggle to get ringouts in general all the way up to like 140 dmg sometimes

[tidal swift]

110% i think

[stable pendant]

are there earlier kills?

[tidal swift]

just do sair at that point

[tidal swift]

if u can catch someone mid air yes

[stable pendant]

What are some other things you can do with him

like that purple down move

whats that good for

[slate carbon]

whiff punishing armor

its not very good tbh

[tidal swift]

dealing dmg with jab, jab

[stable pendant]

He doesnt seem very S tier like people have been saying tbh

Am i just playing him wrong?

[tidal swift]

he is high tier

[slate carbon]

hes not that high people just hate him for no reason

[stable pendant]

like S+ or like A

[tidal swift]

A

[stable pendant]

he seems solid

But like

[slate carbon]

and dont know how to play him

against him i mean

[tidal swift]

S+ is arya type

[stable pendant]

Yea

thats what I dont get

How ppl say hes S tier

when arya can toss you around

[tidal swift]

annoying to fight

[stable pendant]

you become a pin cushion

Like I get that stevens up air is pretty good

But like joker who is already strong can kill with his ballon at like 40 if he catches you right

bugs has the bat

So ive just never understood the S tier

[mossy olive]

bomb is ridiculous too cant forget that

even if i start a combo from the other side of steven, not touching the line at all, i still get hit out of my combo because the hitbox is weird

[stable pendant]

its kind of a garnet hitbox steven hitbox issue

[mossy olive]

its a steven issue

steven is just broken admit it

[stable pendant]

garnets leg hitbox gets too big when she dashes

and stevens shield hitbox is a schoolbus

[tidal swift]

yeah

myb for not playing low tiers

[mossy olive]

in fighting games youre whats known as a tier whre

i respect it if you play steven because you like him as a character

[tidal swift]

i only play steven since beta xd

[mossy olive]

wasnt he mid in the beta tho

[trim scaffold]

Broken in the fact that Watermelon Steven has been bugged since launch.

[trim scaffold]

The issue is that Garnet's hurtbox continues to be giant.
The actual bomb of the Steve Bomb doesn't even cover the entire visual.

[slate carbon]

he was significantly harder to play in beta

[trim scaffold]

Giant.
Gizmo
Finn
Arya
Joker
It's not hard to find better characters in this game.

Steven's problem is moreso he's really annoying not actively busted.

[mossy olive]

no, hes busted

steven mains try not to downplay their top tier main challenge

[trim scaffold]

Garnet just sucks.

It is what it is.

[mossy olive]

just because some characters are better than one character in particular doesnt mean that one character isnt broken too

half the cast is broken in one way or another

[stable pendant]

Besides that weird hit what about him is broken?

[trim scaffold]

Yeah but character power is relative.
If everyone's super no one is.

Steven can have strong tools and still not be broken in the face more broken characters.

He doesn't exist in a vacuum.

[mossy olive]

his entire moveset is sponging damage and stealing stage control for free with bomb and shields

[trim scaffold]

Now.

Let's see which Steven move has armor.

There's ** **

And ** **

Don't forget ** **

[mossy olive]

you have a smash bros shield when you neutral dodge

[stable pendant]

LMAOOO

[trim scaffold]

Last but not least ** **

[mossy olive]

shut it lol

[stable pendant]

long startup kinda niche too imo

[trim scaffold]

That's respectfully a single move he cannot attack during.

[tidal swift]

it's is nerfed, since first patch doesn't exist perfect shield

[slate carbon]

he is as light as the mages in this game, his only armor he himself gets is when he holds neutral dodge (which is completely countered by armor breaker)\

[tidal swift]

yea, high tier in season 2 beta

[slate carbon]

not to mention armor killer destroys it

[tidal swift]

kinda, is really strong

but not as strong as gizmo, ig or arya

[slate carbon]

steven also has no real solution to armor

[tidal swift]

yes, he has lol

[trim scaffold]

Most Tanks in this game don't have to choose between sponging damage and being on the offense.
Like Wonder Woman Shields or Jason Rage
Steven wasn't designed as a Tank so he needs team support to have an active damage sponge.

Not to say his shields aren't powerful, but he has to play pretty passively to take advantage of them.

[slate carbon]

ah yes, the slow, small, grounded armor break move

[trim scaffold]

He has a couple they're just not reliably.

[tidal swift]

u can put the shield breaking perk and doing nair

[trim scaffold]

That takes 40+ frames and it's beyond telegraphed.
It's waste of a perk slot at that point.

[tidal swift]

u can bait a lot

[slate carbon]

thats why i said no "real" solution, he has answers, they're just not good

[trim scaffold]

Steven Bomb is useful for dealing with armor, has you can time it to have your attack hit the armor and the explosion punish.

[trim scaffold]

Makes sense.

[tidal swift]

i win a lot of games thanks to that

u put in only vs ww or superman

[trim scaffold]

That's moreso an issue of poor armor usage.
Your opponents shouldn't really be getting hit by full charge Nair unless you've already committed to something.

Like supe does a yolo charge up-tilt cause it 10% of the time it works everytime or some other scrublord prayer.

[stable pendant]

is up shield or up clap better?

[trim scaffold]

They're both used for different situations.

[slate carbon]

up shield is faster but up clap is more powerful

[stable pendant]

when should i choose what

[trim scaffold]

Up shield is way faster with more burst movement and control over your aerial mobilty, but clap is super strong with more damage with a fairly forgiving hitbox to the sides of him.

[slate carbon]

up clap if your going for the kill, up shield in edgeguarding situations

or just dealing with someone above you for up shield

[trim scaffold]

It's possible you might need to get a feel for it, but generally
Up shield is used when you need something fast, and up-clap is when you need to punish or end a combo.

[stable pendant]

ok so like if theyre decently high dmg say 80 i do my two jabs up shield then go for up clap for kill?

[tidal swift]

clap

[trim scaffold]

That's a fairly tight combo.
I'd recommend doing 1 Jab instant Nair then up-air.

[stable pendant]

so shield is more like i need to get an up air right now

and clap is more for kills

[trim scaffold]

Or Jab 1 Nair Dair then Up-air

[trim scaffold]

Seems about right.

[stable pendant]

not loading for some reason

[trim scaffold]

Hold on

[trim scaffold]

https://streamable.com/vogy1t

[stable pendant]

do u have more clips like this

that actually really helps

[trim scaffold]

To be honest not really.
But don't be afraid to make some yourself.

If you drop it then that's just part of the process to eventually landing it.

[stable pendant]

I just need some ideas for how to start combos and stuff

how do u deal with ppl who just run tho

like morty players

[tidal swift]

vs mortys u can do sair

[slate carbon]

chase them with sair, its both a disjoint and a reflect

[tidal swift]

steven bomb + nair catch dodges

[stable pendant]

i always miss by an inch lol

[tidal swift]

u can loop jab > dair > jab > dair if they do di out

[trim scaffold]

Steven's routes are pretty simple until you involve shields.
Nair at about half charge combos into every aerial as long as you get them to bounce on the floor.
Jab will combo into all his other ground moves as long as you get close enough.
Jab 1 will combo into Nair if you're fast enough,

[stable pendant]

ur speaking in riddles

[trim scaffold]

Oops

[stable pendant]

U gotta explain it like purple down wall move thingy

[trim scaffold]

Doesn't start combos without a shield or Steven Bomb.

[tidal swift]

it's rare to use shield combos if u don't read dodges

[stable pendant]

also how do u hit his normal down

the like swipe attack

[trim scaffold]

But it does decent base knockback and puts your opponent further away than the final hit of the jab combo for the low low price of 1%.

So it still has some uses.

[stable pendant]

i do it too high

[trim scaffold]

Down attack in midair can be comboed into from Nair.
You just have to be kind of close to them when you go for it.

[stable pendant]

I saw a clip where a garnet used their star to get back to middle and steven used that power and garnet died at like 10%

[stable pendant]

u just gotta hope they dont swing first?

[trim scaffold]

You need to establish your position slowly make your way forward without dodging or attacking.
Try to maintain a 45 degree angle in front of him while being outside melee Morty doesn't have great anti-airs so he needs start playing offensive to hit you there.
Once you get to about mid range you can jump over Dirt on reaction
Or reflect his Nades or block them with side-b
When players start being passive they're normally waiting for something to react to.
If you notice they start dodging the moment you get close, roll in or start charging a Nair.
You need to make it look like you're going to going to do that then just wait for the dodge and punish that on reaction.

Normally with a dodge cancelled normal since it flings you across the screen really fast.

[trim scaffold]

Moreso you should be trying to whiff punish with Nair.
If they swing, but swing at air.
Then that should give you a chance to land a combo starter.

[stable pendant]

i find approaching with the bubble ends with me getting combod

[trim scaffold]

Got a link?

[stable pendant]

am i using it too early

[stable pendant]

ill look

[trim scaffold]

When you say bubble do you mean Neutral attack in midair?

[stable pendant]

yes

[trim scaffold]

Cause it's really easy to punish.

lol

Or at least.

Relatively easy to punish.

[stable pendant]

and the shield riding move they hit me thru it from aboive

[trim scaffold]

It has a lot of lag on whiff.

[stable pendant]

I think i use it too early tbh

like theyre mid map i approach from too far and then they run a bit and turn around for a whallop

[trim scaffold]

Classic Steven Nair moment.

[tidal swift]

a lot of times is that, if u want to force a entry use steven bomb

[trim scaffold]

You wanna avoid those situations by charging Nair and drifting back.
Or just doing dodge cancelled Fair into them to catch them running instead of charging a Nair.

[tidal swift]

with nair

[stable pendant]

so if they do combo they get hit

!!!

is that right?

[tidal swift]

yeah

[stable pendant]

https://x.com/breonteuniverse/status/1813655552930857400?s=46&t=vju9u9hjgao5tW2fj7Mzrw

[stable pendant]

@trim scaffold

[tidal swift]

dexter labs moment

[stable pendant]

when is the best time to use his purple move

like up on a shield to stop them from getting down or something?

just went 3-1 against a morty

[trim scaffold]

Thx

Also that Steven got to charge that move for 40 days & 40 nights.
Bro had no excuse to get hit by that. 💀

[stable pendant]

yea

[stable pendant]

trying to recover using that power and u cant stop or cancel it

[trim scaffold]

It covers both sides so it can cover cross up attempts or ambigious landings.
It break armor so you can use it to whiff punish a WW with shields or to get thru an another Steven's shield.
It's also one of his better enders after a jab combo.

Cause it's knockback angle is pretty low even on good di.

You'll be able to put them in the way of a Steven Bomb or setup a Watermelon if they aren't pressing you.

Maybe both

If you're really feeling like it.

[stable pendant]

ah

[granite beacon]

Was watching voids tier list video, did a double take when I showed up on stevens section lol

[dusk yoke]

I don’t mean to be that guy but Steven’s tools are kinda insane

Yall gotta remember this is primarily a 2s game I think his tier list was for 2s as well

[granite beacon]

I never said his tool weren’t insane?

[dusk yoke]

I know

I’m saying that as justification

For his placement

[granite beacon]

Ok

[dusk yoke]

Wait the most recent tier list?

[granite beacon]

Yea

[dusk yoke]

Oh ok

Yeah that’s what I was talking about

[granite beacon]

He’s like 10th or 11th

Which is exactly where I think he is

[dusk yoke]

The moment you guys stopped spamming nair every Steven main became like insane

Though learning you can just hit Steven while he’s charging nair is a life saver

Beat a Steven 3-1 because of that tip

[granite beacon]

Or waiting for the endlag

[dusk yoke]

Agreed honestly

Like he’s not broken but combining his tools can make him scary to fight

Like when they have both shields set up and a rose bomb

[granite beacon]

If anything If it was a doubles list Steven would be higher

But Since they mainly showed 1s gameplay I think it was a 1s list

[dusk yoke]

Wait was it a 1s or 2s list?

I thought Void only did 2s lists

But idk

Maybe that was back in beta or early current release

[trim scaffold]

Bet share it.

I never play 2s comp so I never really was sure about how good or bad Steven was.

But most of his weaknesses would be pretty hypothetically able to be fixed in doubles with a good partner.

Like I'd imagine Steven + WW is Rick's worst nightmare.

[stable pendant]

steven and garnet

[dusk yoke]

What about Steven and Jake?

Jake forward air protected behind Steven shield sounds pretty good

If his punch isn’t blocked by it that is

[stable pendant]

niche hard to do

[dusk yoke]

Oh

[trim scaffold]

Lore accurate team up luv to see it.

[stable pendant]

they pair well too

still dying for amethyst tho

[dusk yoke]

Finn and Jake go hard

“What time is it? ADVENTURE TIME!!” will never not be hype to me

[dusk yoke]

Well she is a cameo on sky arena

But note cameos don’t disconfirm characters

[stable pendant]

I know

her whip looks so cool

[slate carbon]

i think the only thing that deconfirms characters is studio

[stable pendant]

i mean they already got her weapon and a model coded in

[dusk yoke]

Banana Guard went from an item Bugs could pull up to a whole character

[dusk yoke]

Hopefully it’s a whole model and not just the arm

[stable pendant]

I dont think its a matter of if but when

[dusk yoke]

That would be such a hype reveal

If she just hops from under sky arena

[stable pendant]

no seriously the flame whips

into the spinning

ugh

[dusk yoke]

Yesss

[stable pendant]

why cant we have nice thingggs

[dusk yoke]

No clue

[stable pendant]

we couldnt even have velma

😭

[dusk yoke]

I’m saying

Velma is just MVS hardcore Minecraft mode

[stable pendant]

no literally

no combos

and not even in the like

run in and get attacks way either

shes just so bad

none of her attacks make sense

Was old her even that op?

[slate carbon]

she and bugs were the only characters people used at EVO 2022
throughout the entire beta she was insane

they're scared of bringing that back

[stable pendant]

I feel like they brought it back with morty

[granite beacon]

https://youtu.be/OhDdX_FX13M 10:45

[rapid salmon]

For anyone who claimed the new MVS ps plus pack, should I contact support about not getting the lapis ringout?

Or is that a known issue they're working on a fix for

[true lion]

For me it actually took some time to get it or maybe I just restarted the game and it was there this time

[wide flame]

If 2s there priority there doing a terrible job 2s are unplayable and legit are a chore to play

[dusk yoke]

I didn’t say they were doing good 😭

I was just saying that to explain Voids list

2s stinks rn that’s why I only play 1s

[wide flame]

Steven is good in 2s he’s mad predictable in 1s

[dusk yoke]

Yeah

I finally learned the counterplay to nair

So he’s actually not too bad to fight now

[trim scaffold]

Arya placement is kinda gaslighting
Like that Bugs up-air clip.
If Arya gets hit by that many.
She dies
Most characters get hit by that many.
They're on death's door.
Iron Giant gets hit by that many?

But Steven placement checks out.

Could see Harley or maybe Rick being above him, but I barely see her anymore so I'm not sure.

And pretty sure Steven has a good MU against both.

[raven spindle]

I hate to like, ask but I'm to the point where I have to. This game is like, not good, right?

Maybe it's just the servers bc playing locally is fine

[stable pendant]

did they nerf stevens kill potential????

Like even at 120 i cant kill of top

[granite beacon]

Map plays a huge factor in this, places like sky arena and trophy’s I can get kills with up air around 80 percent while on maps like tree fort they usually live past 120

[stable pendant]

i like cant kill at all

[granite beacon]

Hmm I don’t have that problem really up air or forward air usually gets the job done

[stable pendant]

have any clips?

[trim scaffold]

Not really sure watchu mean by that.

[trim scaffold]

Treehouse is one of Steven's worst stages.
Don't let it get you down you'll just need to focus on offstage more for reliable kos.

[stable pendant]

Hard not to I heard Steven’s this insane killing machine and he turns out to be pretty average

[light night]

do uair and up B have the same kb?

im assuming yeah

[slate carbon]

no uair has more kill power, but up special is faster

[light night]

alright yeah i wasnt sure

[slate carbon]

esp if you hit the up air sweet spot

[granite beacon]

well theres this https://outplayed.tv/media/4rMez7

[hidden mauve]

Would you have to dodge cancel for this

[frigid minnow]

is steven still good after the nerfs ?

[granite beacon]

Yes, great in 1s, fantastic in 2s

[dusk yoke]

Amazing still

[hollow locust]

man how did lebron get nerfed

and this character is untouched

like omg

literally 0 skills

to win against this character u have to be 2 times or 3 times better than ur opponent

0 respect to anyone that uses this character and 0 respect to the devs not balancing this stuff

like is there a point to make to defend this character or say that it is balanced ?

why does any legend or character have this sair

so fast unpunishable and makes any projectile his

and i'm talking about sair only

the rest of the kit is as broken as sair

[light night]

well steven isn't broken, he's just good

he still struggles to break any kind of armor

sair is definitely one of his strongest moves but i wouldn't say it makes him "broken"

[river bay]

You have to commit to sair. Since you recoil in the opposite direction when it comes out

[stable pendant]

Characters like Arya still exist and you complain about Steven?

[light night]

^

[slate carbon]

its easier to say "I hate steven universe" than it is to say "I hate [top tier]" since most people just hate steven anyway

[vague hollow]

True. People literally make up abilities Steven doesn't even have just to hate on him. 💀

[stable pendant]

never understood the hate tbh hes good but I dont see him preforming anywhere near as well as other characters

[slate carbon]

no people just hate the character and his show

i doubt most people have faced him more than like 3x

[stable pendant]

i only saw him once in 1v1

nvm make that 2

[dusk yoke]

His neutral game just simply isn’t fun to fight, cause he has some of the fastest aerials in game. Most of the “hate” is just because he’s honestly a quite easy character nowadays

[slate carbon]

his sair does have a decent amount of start up, his nair is fast but very predictable when they go for it and has a LOT of whiff, dair requires him to be super close and above you, up air is strong but has even more start up than sair

[dusk yoke]

Yes but all four are fast and powerful enough along with his shields, rose bomb, and watermelon Steven, that his neutral game often ends up just being “run at opponent with nair or down special and bombard them with a bunch of stuff at once”

His neutral game as a whole is just unfun to fight honestly

Even when predictable or easy to fight

[left quest]

Welp my last like 10 opponents probably wish I didn't see your video l0l. Also do you mind explaning your perk choice? I was stalking you on tracker.gg and saw you used Green Thumb. Also do you prefer 100 over Movespeed? That one seems kinda preference in general

[granite beacon]

Green thumb is useful against projectile heavy characters like gizmo and rick, acts as a big meat shield that can soak up damage, I honestly also think green thumb is optimal against Arya as watermelon can mess up the combo timings and interrupt her strings. I have 3 sets, the standard snowball move speed and damage, an armor breaking set for WW and supes, and watermelon set with 100% for matchups that are more campy

[left quest]

Thanks so much for the info

[wide flame]

Bro joined the Steven section to complain about Steven

You statement had no value everyone here knows how good nair is

[left quest]

Did they delete their posts or something?

[wide flame]

Yea lmao

[vague hollow]

Imagine. 💀

[river bay]

I mean Nair is good but you have to commit

[left quest]

Any tips vs Finn?

[wide flame]

Shield to bait out his charged attacks he has terrible recovery get him offstage if possible

[trim scaffold]

Legend?

You talking about stevonnie?

[trim scaffold]

That problem in that case would be getting into CQC range.
Stubby guy with stubby limbs and stubby moves.
Characters like Finn, Wonder Woman, or Jack can outrange him reliably so try some of those out if you're struggle with his buttons.

[dusk yoke]

It’s not a struggle to fight

It’s just not fun

[trim scaffold]

My tip is find out what about Finn makes it hard then start asking questions about those.

[left quest]

lmao

[mild pelican]

Been a while since I've played Steven. What're his best perks nowadays?

[true lion]

Steven downplayers are crazy he still top 10 and he is good for 1's

A good setup and you take 50%+
Also sair is probably one of the best in all the game, specially with how good is Steven in the air

[trim scaffold]

Imma be fr Taz is better, but it is what it is.

[trim scaffold]

His sig perks are practically interchangable and moreso depend on your playstyle.

If you like using Watermelon Steven as a pseudo teammate for body blocking, Steven Bombs, and giving him armor.
Then you'll probably like using Green Thumb.
If you're a fan of shield setups to secure stocks and improve your advantage.
You'll probably like bounce bubble.

If platform bounces & melons don't feel like a reliable part of your gameplan.

Then just roll with generalist.

His other perks are more MU dependent.
Snowball Effect is solid, but if you find yourself struggling to take stocks press the advantage is also valid.

[dusk yoke]

I will say this take is quite accurate, maybe not a whole 50%, but Steven’s setups basically throw you into a all loss situation cause everywhere you go you’ll get hit

[trim scaffold]

collateral damage is almost universal among Steven players, but if you can live for a long time like on tree fort, Last Stand is also viable for dealing with your killing problem.

Puglist is the usual last slot, but if you find yourself struggling with armor crush so you can just Nair right thru it.

[true lion]

Bro you are not Void to have such an awful take

[trim scaffold]

😂

My bad.

I'll lay off the tier list videos for a bit.

[granite beacon]

the amount of times people will come to this chat saying all Steven players downplay him and are coping but like everyone here knows Steven is still a fantastic character lol

@visual acorn i saw you bro 👀

[visual acorn]

i was about to rant about people slandering steven mains but i caught myself lmao

[trim scaffold]

Time to downplay Steven.

Gotta give these guys a strawman to box.

Steven is top 15. 😦

Devs killed him.

[granite beacon]

remember when we could do this? https://youtu.be/KpMQrulo-5k

[indigo walrus]

They killed Nair and Dair

And Bubble too ig

[trim scaffold]

Dang up-b was a reference the whole time.

I could've sworn PFG made Steven's moveset via google search.

Cause clearly they have 0 respect for anything in this franchise.

[granite beacon]

nah i just found something as close as i could

[trim scaffold]

Side Note: Where's ur TFD?

[visual acorn]

bro we had down air infinite and instant shield we were eating too good 😭

[granite beacon]

a lot of stevens moves are inspired by SU Future but i hear ya

[trim scaffold]

I also didn't run it until they removed Dair loops

[visual acorn]

i still petition to bring back shield surf kick spiking i dont care if its overkill

[trim scaffold]

It's not

[granite beacon]

its useless now so i agree

[trim scaffold]

Literally 0 combos into it.

Steven 🤝 Jason

[granite beacon]

whats tfd?

[trim scaffold]

Having a down-b they have no reason to use.

That's Flammable Doc.

Older patches would have it proc on Nair.

[granite beacon]

ah right this was really early on and i didnt run it yet

[trim scaffold]

Same TBH.
Steven needs it.

[granite beacon]

day 3 or 4 maybe

[dusk yoke]

Nair used to be way to good it was the reason it became the stereotype of Steven neutral game lol

I mean it still is

But not nearly as good as before

Cause endlag go brrr

[granite beacon]

yea the endlag nerf gave it an actual weakness it was needed tbh

[trim scaffold]

We gotta downplay Steven tho.

[dusk yoke]

We need Finn to get this treatment with jab

[trim scaffold]

It had weaknesses like

---

And

---

Don't forget

---

[granite beacon]

then they nerfed his up strong and shield surf for some reason

[trim scaffold]

It used to give armor in the Beta.

[dusk yoke]

Leave his range and combo potential alone just give the kid some overall endlag

[trim scaffold]

Okay that first one I really never got.

[dusk yoke]

So he can’t just go unpunished

[trim scaffold]

But understandable.

Have a nice day.

👍

[dusk yoke]

Ok shield surf is annoying as hell

[trim scaffold]

Downplay aside

Move is genuinely obnoxious.

[granite beacon]

now its tiny af and one of two of his main combo starters

[trim scaffold]

You can just kinda pull it out.

[granite beacon]

at least when on the ground its still decent in the air

[trim scaffold]

It's weirdly low lag.

I'm just glad the hitbox is tiny so you can beat it out.

[dusk yoke]

Shield surf imo needed whatever nerf it got, because dude can just instant turn midair to make sure he landed on you regardless of what you did

At least Gizmo car had a bit of lag when you turn

Even tho I still hate gizmo more

[trim scaffold]

And Taz

[granite beacon]

i think midair it was unchanged i think it was just when its on the ground

[trim scaffold]

Shield Surf into Dair used to be a thing at mid % range.

[dusk yoke]

Literally haven’t fought him once

Since release honestly

[trim scaffold]

Someone actually try to lab a combo that wasn't effected by the Steven nerfs.

[granite beacon]

people are learning that taz is insane

[trim scaffold]

And then the patch dropped, and shield surf got nerfed.

[trim scaffold]

Now he actually has to think when he sandwiches or Nados.

[granite beacon]

sandwich yes, nado.... ehhhhh

[trim scaffold]

Fair

[dusk yoke]

I do have good ideas for balanced Finn nerfs

[trim scaffold]

Someday when parrying becomes common place.

Then they will have to think. 👍

[granite beacon]

true

[trim scaffold]

Meta Knight 🤝 Taz
Having Tornado be their best move on release.

[granite beacon]

everyone will be playing rivals 2 when parrying becomes combo place

common

[indigo walrus]

And

Don't forget

[dusk yoke]

Give his jab 1 more endlag on whiff, but keep its range and combo starting ability, make it so when you fully charge his up tilt he doesn’t jump up so high, leave it at the same height and just let it do more damage, maybe make his nair shoe cooldown a bit longer

And I think he’d be way more balanced

[trim scaffold]

We had to charge it to go plus on hit.

Unless it ground bounced then we get Dair into our entire moveset

[dusk yoke]

But please for the love of god leave his combo potential, it’s literally what makes his character fun and it’s dodge and DI read based

Oh I’m talking about Finn

Not Steven lol

Steven I’d say make his grounded move a bit better and his aerials a bit worse, dude feels unpunishable in the air

[trim scaffold]

Gonna be honest Neutral Tilt is in theory kinda cracked as is.
But I kinda don't really use it.

Maybe if I played more doubles.

[dusk yoke]

Jab?

[trim scaffold]

If I want Rose Gaze I normally just Steven Bomb.

[granite beacon]

this pretty much, steven just gets barely anything useful from his grounded moves besides like jab, theres no reason to use his grounded kit except for like 1 kill confirm or a hard call out, meaninwhile his aerials are too strong, he literally doesnt have a bad aerial

[dusk yoke]

Wait are you talking about Steven or Finn

[trim scaffold]

By the time I get the bubble on the cooldown is normally over.

[dusk yoke]

Yeah

[trim scaffold]

Jab is technically side attack by default.

[dusk yoke]

It makes his neutral game so annoying

[dusk yoke]

So is neutral tilt like forward smash by what you mean?

[trim scaffold]

Technically yeah.

[dusk yoke]

Ok

[stable pendant]

What are some shield setups

and like ways you can use them

[wide flame]

Side B low up special people are so thirsty for kills they usually jump into it

And then you juggle them to 60

[stable pendant]

Any other tips?

[quartz trail]

how do i fight this character?? 😭

specifically with jason

[left quest]

No one tell him

[dusk yoke]

Why is dawg gatekeeping 😭

[quartz trail]

please man

i need to know

[stable pendant]

dont lose

[quartz trail]

[stable pendant]

what do u struggle with about him

[quartz trail]

idk im fighting him with jason. 1v1ing my brother i always lose not sure why tho

i think its probably the shields forcing me to ledge

his bomb punishing me for hitting him

and watermelon steven just being annoying

[stable pendant]

hmm whats ur name we can do 1v1 and practive

[quartz trail]

could we do it later? its late for me 😭

[stable pendant]

sure just send a message

[left quest]

Was a joke my man

[hidden mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/black-adam-clap-gif-26775462

I've never considered using multiple sets based on the character I go against

Should I?

[slate carbon]

i do on my jason

[hidden mauve]

I did main val

[left quest]

Can't begin to fathom how to kill Superman as Steven. I destroy everything else but struggle to kill him. So frustrating

Meanwhile 99% of Superman players drool and get accidental kills

[trim scaffold]

100%

[slate carbon]

spam sair to outrange, get the hell out of the way of any armored moves

[left quest]

Thanks yeah I was thinking I wasn't sairing enough

[frank cradle]

I love how video games keep putting Steven in the Pink Diamond outfit as if that wasn't a horrible identity crisis moment for him. x3

[trail spoke]

but it’s cute

i still want the haven’t you noticed that i’m a star skin

[trail spoke]

when are we getting a nora skin

[trim scaffold]

I've been playing armor killer a bit more v supes, and I gotta say it be a game changer.

It's habit killer as well.
Too many supes whiff into up-tilt or whiff into up-b.
Both are punished pretty hard.

@tidal swift I owe you an apology you were on to something.

[trim scaffold]

I haven't seen a Jack since Gold, so I'm not sure TBH.

I just kinda loop him, and pray I can react to his BS.

[slate carbon]

get the hell away from him if he tries to jab

dont even try to punish

be mindful of side special

[trim scaffold]

Jab is a "punish what they do next" move odds are it's a roll away so you can smoke em for that.

Oh and also jack's landings are pretty bad without dodges.

You can up-b his moves pretty reliably with how slow they are.

Or just move out of the way and whiff punish.

Yeah but that's not a landing option.

Jack's like doing nair or sometimes down-b to challenge a juggle situation.

If you bait either of these and dodge upwards past them or just step back for a bit.

You can keep him in a bad spot.

[slate carbon]

could you maybe make a wall so he has to go over it/break it?

[granite beacon]

Steven Universe, amiright lads?

[indigo walrus]

Dying at 80% 🗣️🗣️

[trail spoke]

bingo bongo

[dusk yoke]

All his aerials aerial down special and side special spam 🗣️🗣️🔥🔥

Mind you I’m not calling you guys bad lol

[trail spoke]

if you ain’t spamming neutral you’re doing it wrong

[dusk yoke]

I do this for every character (including Finn)

Cause platform fighter stereotypes are the best

[velvet pier]

Peak gameplay honestly

[river bay]

Fair enough

[mossy olive]

this character genuinely does more damage and kills earlier than jason

and he just doesnt die

he plays like steve from smash and thats not a good thing

[hidden mauve]

I mean

He's Steve with an n at the end of his name

[dusk yoke]

I’m sayin

Mf has no reason not to be like top 4 lightest

And if he is he sure don’t feel like it

Like PFG he ain’t that fat

[slate carbon]

hes like barely heavier than morty/rick/marvin, who are all the same weight

i am literally staring at a weight chart of all the characters

[dusk yoke]

How tf is Rick the same weight as Marvin

And Shaggy heavier than Rick??

And why tf is Batman so light?

AND HOW IS GIZMO NOT THE LIGHTEST

[slate carbon]

shaggy is way heavier than all of them

[slate carbon]

he is, same weight value as arya and harley

[dusk yoke]

Oh ok good

Honestly should be lighter but whatever

[dusk yoke]

This makes zero sense to me

[dusk yoke]

Idc if it’s a balance issue thing, I want that rat to die as easy as possible

[slate carbon]

bc hes an assassin and PFG doesnt understand their own class system

[dusk yoke]

Batman

Is an assassin?

[slate carbon]

have you seen how fast that man is

both in runspeed and framedata

[dusk yoke]

Oh like realistically or the actual class they put him in?

[slate carbon]

realistically hes an assassin but they put him in bruiser

[dusk yoke]

Oh

PFG can’t classify anything right

Morty’s a “bruiser”

And Marvin’s an “assassin”

[slate carbon]

wait hes somehow heavier than steven

[dusk yoke]

Damn

[slate carbon]

only slight tho

[dusk yoke]

Steven ain’t that fat

Them cookie cats really saving him

[slate carbon]

characters heavier than steven
Smith, BG, Batman, BA, Garnet, IG, Jake, Jason, Joker, Lebron, Reindog, Jack, Shaggy, Stripe, Superman, Velma, WW

[slate carbon]

you wanna know a character who's weight is some REAL wacky stuff? Velma.
heavier than TAZ and the same weight as JACK and JAKE

[dusk yoke]

???

PFG cooking straight nothing

[slate carbon]

i remember in beta she was like the 4th heaviest character

[dusk yoke]

How tf is Velma 4th heaviest??

[slate carbon]

it was super early on, like prior to the EVO tourney

[slate carbon]

anyway my point is steven is NOT as heavy as you guys are saying

[dusk yoke]

They’re saying he feels that heavy, not that he is

[indigo walrus]

That's like 70% of the cast anyway

[granite beacon]

STRIPE?! THAT LITTLE BAG OF BONES?!

[granite beacon]

to get meaningful damage and range he needs to charge it up, charging a nair also slows down stevens air speed greatly, if a steven is spamming nair just walk or dodge out of its range and try to punish its whiff, its whiff became pretty sizeable after his nerf. judging by your name im assuming you play reindog, reindog is a big target and gets hit by nair easier than most but his grounded up strong is decent at stuffing nair out of the sky if you know its coming.

[vague hollow]

Honestly, I'd LOVE to play the game they're playing. It's tiring dying to weak moves at 70. 😔

[granite beacon]

what moves are you dying too?

[vague hollow]

Nothing specific. Just feels like every other match I die to a move that'd kill anyone else MUCH later lol

[granite beacon]

gotta give me specifics here man what steven move is killing you at 70?

besides like maybe up air or a spike

[vague hollow]

Oh it's not Steven moves, I'm dying as Steven.

[granite beacon]

ohhhhhhhhhh

whoops

[vague hollow]

Lol it's alr

[granite beacon]

yea thought you were the other guy my b

[vague hollow]

I actually went to the lab to check the damage of the most complained about moves recently.

From what I found, fully charged nair doesn't deal 20 DMG unless you use perks.

[granite beacon]

tbf most stevens are gonna run snowball and pugilist tho xD

[vague hollow]

True. 😌

[granite beacon]

nair is very telegraphed im sure you know its coming and to get meaningful range you have to charge it over halfway, i think intercepting it before he manages to get full charge is valuable, if you think you cant just run away and try to reset neutral, i do think steven wins against reindog but this would be my best advice, steven wants to be above his enemy cause thats where he gets his most value, reindog has a pretty solid juggle game with his up airs so try to intercept nairs with grounded up strong and keep them in disadvantage best you can.

i do agree with this, stevens playstyle compared to beta is honestly pretty lame, his aerials are overtuned and his grounded attacks are doodoo so it incentivizes overusing nair fair and aerial shield surf,

[granite beacon]

wonder what happened to that guys comments

[trim scaffold]

He's only human after all.

[trim scaffold]

Marvin's an assassin with a bunch of projectiles.

[trim scaffold]

I miss Beta where his aerials had even less endlag at the cost of not killing until 130, and his ground attacks were even worse.

We're truly in the dark age for Steven players.

[left quest]

Anyone figure out how to beat drooling Finns yet or am I having to continue my hiatus until balance patch? lol

[trim scaffold]

Well part of what makes Finn such a strong character is his mixups off of run int up-attack.

So neutral special, side specials on the ground can limit his mixup options.

If he does run up forward attack instead.
Roll cancel jump over to him and smack him in the head cause it sucks at hitting aerial opponents.

And a similar strat goes for BMO chop.

After that it's just a matter of landing Nair and reading his job habits and you can kill him sub 90.

[left quest]

Really appreciate the tips

[dusk yoke]

Go in the air a ton

Force him to approach basically

Finn’s air game isn’t nearly as godly as his grounded game

So air fights you’ll always have the upper hand (cause Steven aerials are flash levels of fast lol)

[hidden mauve]

I could see this

[granite beacon]

with how much shaggy eats i too could see this

[dusk yoke]

Nah I don’t think it needs a huge nerf

It’s predictable already

And you can hit them out of it before they can release it if you time it

Or simply back away

I can see it being a problem from slow characters tho

[dusk yoke]

Fair

Only problem with that is it makes their matchup with fast characters like Finn way way more difficult

Yeah

The little fat rat is annoying

All his aerials are

Because they have insanely fast frame data

So he can just spam them without a care in the world

Yeah

[slate carbon]

steven's aerials are insane so his groundeds can be garbage

for it to do 20 and have a lot of range it has to be charged all the way, where he has very limited horizontal mobility, and it has pretty decent endlag if it misses, its best to dodge it if they go for it then punish

[granite beacon]

people just dont want steven to be a character anymore huh

[slate carbon]

do you not realize how many people just hate steven universe? like as a show?

[trail spoke]

mainly homophobes

[dusk yoke]

Some people just simply think it’s bad in general

[trail spoke]

those people don’t see the masterpiece

that is finding out that garnet is a fusion

and that steven universe is actually a prince

[dusk yoke]

🤷‍♂️

I only found Peridot and Lapis cool

Rest of it to me was just kinda there

[trail spoke]

i liked jasper a lil

[dusk yoke]

Overall I just found it meh

Kinda mid imo but there was some good moments

[slate carbon]

bc they watched that one lily orchard video thats not even true

[trail spoke]

what video?

[dusk yoke]

Would still take Adventure Time over it any day tho

My goat of CN

Fern my beloved 🙏

[slate carbon]

its a vid called "Steven Universe is garbage and here's why"

like an hour long vid of nitpicking

[trail spoke]

i like adventure time but steven universe is my childhood

[slate carbon]

the hate is way overinflated tho

[dusk yoke]

It is

Mostly homophobic but some people just genuinely dislike it

Personally never genuinely disliked it

Just never payed it all that much attention

Honestly most of it boiled down to Steven not using the sword lol

I love sword characters

Seeing the main character not use the sword made me sad lol

[slate carbon]

i mean

[dusk yoke]

Though it fits his theme of protecting

That he uses the shield

[slate carbon]

he kinda does with his GF

[granite beacon]

yes but more talking about the fact that at least once a day someone will come into this chat saying this character needs nerfs

[dusk yoke]

Yeah

[granite beacon]

which may or may not be true but still

[dusk yoke]

For certain characters this matchup is abysmal basically

People hate how his neutral game is

Because most Steven mains boil it down to nair and sair spam

And camping behind shields, rose bomb, and wait for watermelon Steven

Personally it’s not the worst thing ever, it’s just annoying

Same for lime T&J, though I hate T&J much more

[slate carbon]

T&J is MUCH worse than steven

at least steven has whiff

and stubby hitboxes

[dusk yoke]

Fair

[slate carbon]

meanwhile TnJ can hit you from a football field away

[dusk yoke]

Down air:

[slate carbon]

faster than half of jason's moveset but just as strong as any of his moves

[granite beacon]

whats peoples problem with watermelon? if youre not using green thumb he doesnt really do much and most people dont

[dusk yoke]

Mf is the worst to fight

[trail spoke]

he’s a pacifist which is why he doesn’t use it

[dusk yoke]

It gets in the way of attacks a lot of the time

[trail spoke]

he’s just fodder

like literally eats attacks and let’s just punish

[dusk yoke]

Steven will go above you and spam nair, Watermelon Steven can run right into you and try to make you jump

And or dodge

[granite beacon]

not really unless you use green thumb, one strong attack and thats curtains

[dusk yoke]

Basically he eats up attacks half the time

So Steven can just nair spam you

[slate carbon]

you can knock his "egg" away and insta kill him before he spawns

[dusk yoke]

Some characters like Finn who doesn’t have as many strong options more difficult

[dusk yoke]

Shield spam

And rose bomb

Like Finn only has the option of charge a tilt, maybe high five, or dash attack on watermelon Steven

[slate carbon]

rose bomb goes after (i believe) 3 seconds?

[dusk yoke]

They can nair spam your charged tilt, high five has too much end lag, and dash attack is the only good option

[granite beacon]

finn up tilt is stevens worst nightmare

[dusk yoke]

But drops a lot of your coins

[dusk yoke]

Yes lol

I don’t struggle against Steven nearly as much

[slate carbon]

finn in general is just a bad match up for steven bc Finn has such insane reach comparatively

[granite beacon]

p much

feel that way with wonder woman too

[dusk yoke]

They should nerf fully charged Finn up tilt

[slate carbon]

steven can kinda only spam sair bc its his furthest reaching move

[dusk yoke]

It has no need to jump so high

[dusk yoke]

Which is horribly annoying to fight lol

Thankfully it has a bit of endlag

But getting back on stage against Steven is atrocious for me

[granite beacon]

steven all in all is just poorly designed rn, if he doesnt use nair sair and shield surf, what is he actually gonna do?

[dusk yoke]

Cause of how fast all his aerials are

[dusk yoke]

Nothing

Which is why people hate him

They think he’s broken but don’t realize it’s all he can do

[slate carbon]

i wouldnt mind at all if his air moveset was nerfed but his grounded moveset was buffed

[dusk yoke]

And it’s these moves that even keep him from not being bad

[granite beacon]

this seems to be the consesus with most people,

[dusk yoke]

Grounded Steven stinks

[granite beacon]

this is what we want

[slate carbon]

give me a reason to not be in the air dang it

[dusk yoke]

Because it sucks so much, Steven’s only option is air camping

Which nobody likes fighting

[granite beacon]

stevens only half way decent grounded move is jab and thats it

[slate carbon]

but nah they're just gonna nerf sair and nair and call it a day

[dusk yoke]

Which is why he gets hate

All his grounded moves have zero range whatsoever

[granite beacon]

maybe dash attack a little but meh

[dusk yoke]

Like what if his forward tilt could be maybe like a shield charge?

[slate carbon]

i never use dash attacks period

[granite beacon]

i throw it out cause people dont expect it

kill power aint bad

[slate carbon]

his dash attack should've been a shield bash or something

[granite beacon]

just a call it

[dusk yoke]

The second hit always throws me off guard

[granite beacon]

call out

[dusk yoke]

Literally just do Wonder Woman’s dash attack

It’s not that hard

It would make so much sense too

[slate carbon]

i genuinely still dont know how to trigger it, like ill see people just input it like its tied to a button then ill walk like 5 feet and still get a jab

[granite beacon]

double tap forward then do it

[dusk yoke]

Dash dance first

Double tap works too

I just dash dance

Keeps me spaced before I do it in case they try to throw something

People never seem to expect Finn dash attack after a combo

[slate carbon]

i could also just be used to jason who's dash attack is awful

[dusk yoke]

I love doing jab jab IAD sair down tilt -> dash attack

They never seem to expect it

[dusk yoke]

At least it gets rid of projectiles

[slate carbon]

after like 3 seconds of start up, then it has 10 seconds of endlag so they can just punish the whiff bc its slower than most characters walk

[dusk yoke]

Yeah lol

[indigo walrus]

The endlag tho

[dusk yoke]

Ooh what if he could use a throwing axe?

[slate carbon]

replace his useless as||h|| bag with a harpoon gun he can reel people in with

[dusk yoke]

Yeah lol

[slate carbon]

and for the love of all that is holy get rid of his hand hurtboxes

his nair special (the grab mid air) literally has a single finger hurtbox that goes past the hitbox of the grab

i genuinely dont know how people say green thumb is good when WS is dumber than the average general user

[trail spoke]

yeah i don’t see the utility of green thumb tbh

just seem more like screen clutter

[granite beacon]

glorified projectile shield, works really well for me, i use it against aryas too, harder for them to walk back and worth tryna bait options with him in the way they usually commit to a jab or up special and i can find a way to punish it, watermelon also screws with combo timings if we both get hit

[left quest]

Anyone figure out how to touch Joker yet or we just waiting until balance team stops drowning in their pool of drool?

[dusk yoke]

Just punish doesn’t work when some mfs in the game have no such thing as whiff endlag

Cough cough Harley cough cough

Legit man

Also holy cow I can’t respect Harley or Black Adam players

Insane damage, big hitboxes, literally has no disadvantage state because fly, stupid strong aerials, neutral air neutral air neutral air

He literally has everything

They have nothing to complain about with their character

He’s perfectly in the needs nerfs spot

Same for Finn on overall endlag and getting rid of his “TOD”

Even if it’s just a matter of DI/dodge

Personally I think if the Finn can hard read both of your dodges, he deserves to get that kill if he lands like a high five or backpack

Yeah

Dude is basically a noob stomper

Along with like Batman and Black Adam

Cause with fresh installs you can just overwhelm them with tons of stuff and they don’t know what to do

Yeah

The problem is they can adjust to your DI whenever

I think honestly the best option for the in between of the combo where they want a dodge/DI read is to throw out your fastest aerial

And try to clash I guess

Fr

It’s Joker combo but not true and horizontal instead of vertical

[trim scaffold]

Jab

It's always Jab.

It's actually a challenge to find a bad Jab in this game.

[granite beacon]

it would be jab if those other moves werent so good, looking at the roster though steven prob has a bottom 5 jab and even still it has its uses.

[hidden mauve]

It his higher up reach too

[river bay]

I don't understand why people are saying Steven's broken when he's really having to play around his strengths

[wide flame]

Lmao nair as absolutely broken

[dusk yoke]

Basically his aerials and aerial down special is super good

And since the average Steven main only uses those

People hate him

[left quest]

Does this character not feel high tier to anyone else? Seems like the golden few at the top can do everything Steven can do but better

Seems like it's taboo to say

[trail spoke]

i think it takes a lot more setup to be a good steven main but there are no brain moves like up special and up air

just know you own the skies

[left quest]

Yeah idk. I have 71% winrate at Plat 3 atm with Steven and literally only facing high diamond/masters so maybe that's making it feel worse. Hitting Diamond with Agent Smith (who is supposedly much weaker) felt much smoother, but I guess it could just be as simple as I peaked with Steven or he's not really my thing

[dusk yoke]

He does

There’s things keeping him down tho

[dusk yoke]

Holy

Did you win??

Also Steven isn’t a brainless character, he just has a couple very unskillful moves

Oof

You could’ve tried camping ledge maybe

And spamming bugs up air

Oh a little tip

You can hit the Steven before his nair finishes charging

Like once you see it start to charge you can quickly jump up and up air it

Or just attack it

Before they release the move

In that case space away from them and hit them right after it release

Try nair

So when they whiff nair and go straight to the ground

Your momentum carries with bugs nair

Also there’s worse characters

Cough cough Joker Black Adam Finn Iron Giant T&J Gizmo cough cough

Joker doesn’t take all that much

Just fish for jab

Do the Jonkler 60+ damage combo

Rinse and repeat

[trim scaffold]

All my homies be like
"Yeah Steven's Broken, Watermelon Steven doesn't work"

Aw dang it.
Now Bugs actually has to play neutral.

At least until your down-bs off cooldown again.

[left quest]

Seeing a Bugs player cry is the absolute most funny thing imaginable MVS related

[hidden mauve]

I kinda wish side shields lasted as long as they did In the beta

[light night]

there used to be some steven in this chat before shutdown that would glaze green thumb

I forgot his name

[granite beacon]

i remember that too! he said he would someone combo with melon all the time and that it was really good

[light night]

ik i thought it was a troll so i never gave in but doubt he plays this game anymore

if you said anything bad about it

he would be on you

non stop advocating for that perk

[vague hollow]

Honestly, it just makes WS a bigger target. Doesn't make him much if any harder to KO.

Slightly related, but I love shielding WS right before my opponents attack him. It's always gold seeing them get punished for it. 🙏

[light night]

bigger ws would be only useful for eating grabs

but other than that he sucks

[trim scaffold]

To be fair him being a bigger meat shield can be really helpful depending on what you're using him for.

Like to body block someone then they can't even jump over him.

Or if you're trying to make someone hit hit and punish during their hitlag.

Or if you want him to eat some fat projectiles like Bugs Rocket or Garnet Gauntlets

And if he's easier to kill then the cooldown gets started sooner so more health recovery per stock.

5% isn't much but it's enough to be a difference maker when you do it often enough. 🤷‍♀️

[vague hollow]

Very fair points, ngl.

[mental canyon]

hollon you can’t send images anymore?

or were you never able to do that

[smoky zenith]

If u main Steven u have bad karma coming ur way

Scum

[vague hollow]

Lol

[dusk yoke]

Lmao

[vague hollow]

"Lol" said the Stevens, "Lmao"

[dusk yoke]

I don’t main Steven

[vague hollow]

Just thought the connection was funny

[trim scaffold]

Cry about it.

[light night]

bro has a tier list in his profile picture

this actually might be the 1# ragebaiter

[smoky zenith]

My tier list is 100% accurate tf

[light night]

🪤

[river bay]

I wonder how the changes will effect steven