Shaggy

[frozen geyser]

You say this, but Jack is actually the most played character in 2v2

You can check the stats on tracker.gg

[green tinsel]

fair enough

doesnt change anyhting else i feel about shaggy

[frozen geyser]

Shaggy is the second most popular tho

But it’s 9.5% pick rate for Jack vs. 7.3% pick rate for Shaggy

And Jack’s win rate in 2v2 is significantly higher at 55.4% compared to Shaggy’s 49.0%

[green tinsel]

dude i dont care about jack

he sucks for very similar reasons

[frozen geyser]

You can feel however you want. I’m just telling you the facts

[green tinsel]

i get it

anyone reading this who does 2's and isnt master or diamond

if you spam you dont have any skill

youre just being carreid

[frozen geyser]

Now that’s probably true ngl

Gold Shaggy’s in 2v2 are just mindless kick bots

[green tinsel]

its not gold

litteraly anyone up to plat

[frozen geyser]

And plat as well but to a lesser extent

[green tinsel]

99% of shaggys in 2s do this

[frozen geyser]

You really don’t see actual team play until diamond anyway

[green tinsel]

i hate how encouraged it is to not try

there's no punishment for spam in general

the attack decay system they have does bassically nothing

and it leads to jack and shaggy players bieng like this

[frozen geyser]

It makes spamming the same move kill a lot later

[green tinsel]

that barley makes a difference

people dont know attack decay exists

it isnt effective enoughh

[frozen geyser]

That’s because the system is very different from beta

There’s no hitstun cancel

It’s basically just Smash stale moves but called something different

[merry kiln]

2v2s is not real

[green tinsel]

2's is stupid fun

synergizing with other characters adds so much depth

1's isnt fast enough to be fun for me

id rather just do smash at that point

[merry kiln]

I just realized nair after dair is true

meaning you can do it immediately offstage

I just did it to someone and they died at like 20

[forest cosmos]

keep in mind those are only from unranked matches

[frozen geyser]

Alright, I finally have a beetle. Who should I buy from the beetle shop?

Idk if I like the Shaggy skin tbh

[merry kiln]

I got shaggy and gleamium

but I don't like the shaggy one

[frozen geyser]

Yeah I’m considering getting either the Joker, Jason, Black Adam, Smith, or maybe IG

[shell sigil]

Is Giga Sandwich ever worth It over any other rage special?

[frozen geyser]

Not really

It’s only worth using for the sole reason of baiting your opponent to think you’ll use it

And then you just don’t ever use it again

It does by far the least amount of damage for a rage move and is very easy to avoid by either jumping or dodging through (which will deactivate the hitbox for its entire duration)

The only benefit it has is that you can throw it down at ledge to catch ledge campers

But normal sandwich is better for that anyway because it’s faster

[merry kiln]

that only works on IG

I go for it now to try and create a safe space for me after they respawn

usually shaggy dittos because they all share one collective brain cell

[merry kiln]

y’all I think shaggy survived enough patches, he might be gutted next patch

[frozen geyser]

So, season 3 you mean

[merry kiln]

you guys like the new name

I can’t do something funny

[willow beacon]

Bro 2s is such a mental refresher, whenever I'm real tilted, I go in some 2s

[shell sigil]

Is super hype ngl

[sudden cliff]

Is it weird that I love Shaggy but I don't like his moveset?

[frozen geyser]

I mean, liking a moveset is subjective

So that’s not really that weird

[sudden cliff]

Something about it just doesn't sound Shaggy to me.

I get it's the meme but still

Not a bad thing tho

I just wish he's more like how he's usually is more often

[frozen geyser]

I’m more surprised that Velma is the one who got the cartoony dash when Shaggy is always the bait

[sudden cliff]

That too

[frozen geyser]

Granted, it’s Velma’s worst move by far lmao

[sudden cliff]

He and Scooby-Doo often gets chased by the monsters

[frozen geyser]

Yeah

[sudden cliff]

It is?

Yeah, seems reasonable

[frozen geyser]

It’s really telegraphed and has so much whiff lag that even Jason can consistently punish it

[sudden cliff]

I wish that you can let go of the opponents as soon as you grabbed them rather than waiting for her

[frozen geyser]

I think the move would be better if it has faster startup and was a combo tool instead of a weak kill move

[sudden cliff]

What's your take on Shaggy?

To me, I often avoid playing as him since he basically reminds me of saiyans

Rather than anything Scooby-Doo

[frozen geyser]

Idk his moveset being based on the meme is kinda funny

But he plays more like a Smash Luigi which I like

[sudden cliff]

Given I'm not a huge fan of the meme, so I'm biased in that regard, but he is still fun

I do appreciate his taunt though!

[sudden cliff]

In sense that he's floaty but sometimes hits hard? I like that about Smash Luigi

[frozen geyser]

In the sense that his moveset is vaguely similar, he has kill power, he gets a decent amount from reads, and his neutral game is fairly similar except replace grab with jab

[sudden cliff]

Fair enough

[magic leaf]

lol i just did 30 moves and like 40 reads to get a shaggy from 0 to 130 or sum

i was at 0-10

guess who died

[merry kiln]

that was me, I thought your combo wasn't true so I kept trying to dodge but kept teching in for some reason

you died first bc of the 100 perk which is stupid

your lebron is nice but I had some input delay, made it annoying

[magic leaf]

someone named usmaan

is he here

[past rock]

anyone else rage cancelling randomly?

[frozen geyser]

Small hotfix. I did notice that rage kick was still breaking armor, but looks like they actually patched it now

[frozen geyser]

They massively reduced the timer for when rage goes away automatically. It used to be 25 seconds, but now it’s 12

[willow beacon]

Yeah, I always use it fairly quickly, so I didn't mind the change but like...to 12...ok

[frozen geyser]

12 is definitely quite a lot shorter

Personally, I would’ve gone with like 15 if you wanted to nerf the time he keeps rage, but I mean it’s whatever

15 seconds is what Smash Ultimate Cloud’s limit timer for nerfed to

And Shaggy rage is functionally the same

[merry kiln]

never did for me

[frozen geyser]

I literally won a set against a WW recently with rage kick against her armor

[orchid wave]

No shaggy changes…

Bro is destined to be hot cheeks

Oh mein gott

[dusty walrus]

Chill Shaggy is like top 5 in 1s rn

[frozen geyser]

Top 5 is a stretch

Top 10 I’d believe

[jovial prairie]

bottom 5

[merry kiln]

top 2 imo

[dusty walrus]

Joker…

In Smash and MVS, Joker makes me want to die

[frigid smelt]

why is this chracter so good at everything without counterplay

[pearl cedar]

theres no knockback anymore

itll just break her armor and damage her but no knockback

[merry kiln]

I just found a true zero to death

[ruby topaz]

Shiggy

[sudden cliff]

How

Do I make Shaggy eat his sandwich?

[frozen geyser]

With Hangry Man, just hold sandwich while you charge rage and it makes you change it faster

[frozen geyser]

Ok never mind I see what you mean now. Every time there’s a lag spike, your rage charge input drops

[sudden cliff]

Oh I thought he physically had to eat it

Going by the definition

[frozen geyser]

Yeah I thought that too originally

[merry kiln]

got 5th in my first tourney, really happy

[willow beacon]

Show us the ways master

[merry kiln]

#combos message

[past rock]

I tht I was trippin 😭😭

[sudden cliff]

How do I do the move where Shaggy shakes his palm as it gets on flame

[delicate latch]

Down attack 2 times

[frozen geyser]

I think it’s related to the change they made to stop people from SD’ing due to lag spikes. I’m assuming during a lag spike, it forcibly drops your inputs so you don’t just walk into the blast zone, but it has the unintended side effect of cancelling any charge move

Would be nice if they had a happy medium

[willow beacon]

I'm having trouble going against Jakes, anyone have any tips?

[lapis notch]

anyone noticing any weird interactions between dodges off ledges and neutral special? Been a long time since i've played the character but i labbed him out a little today and if you dodge off and away from a plat and time a neutral special perfectly you can still perform something similar to a hangry hop.

if you could perform a grounded diagonal dodge without performing an IAD and time it correctly you might be able to perform a poor man's hangry hop

if someone figures out how to do this i'll consider picking the character back up again

[lapis notch]

i did find a way to sort of do this with the bouncepads on treetops, if you perform a neutral special IAD right as you land on one of the bouncepads you get a even poorer man's hangry hop, which is more difficult and more inconsistent but shows what could be done if someone figures it out

[lapis notch]

omfg has hangry hopping still been in this entire time

i thought it got patched

bruhhh

i feel so dumb

[jovial prairie]

Why do shaggys use 5% I understand people say it's to get the advantage but it's really that amazing?

[frozen geyser]

No, it’s more because Hangry Man got nerfed to the point where it’s not useful and One Last Zoinks only works when you get to 100 and you only get one rage

It’s easier to just charge rage near the blast zone when you get hit at high percents

One Last Zoinks is only worth it in a few matchups where you can’t ever get a rage charge off

Like Black Adam

[merry kiln]

it’s just shaggy’s best option, it kills early

I’ve been using it pre sandwich nerfs

[frozen geyser]

5% also makes you deal 5% more damage and therefore 5% more knockback which absolutely matters with high base knockback moves like the rage ones

[delicate latch]

Shaggy really needs more dmg

Its not like he can kill me at 70

Out of a jab string

Its not like he can build up 40 dmg out of a combo string

[frozen geyser]

Without rage, max damage fully guaranteed combo regardless of DI does like 32

If you’re eating 40+ then you’re DI’ing incorrectly

[merry kiln]

40

[merry kiln]

#combos message

[merry kiln]

unrelated to your msg^

[delicate latch]

Still insane dmg

He can do 40 doesnt mater DI

And doing 32 doesnt change much

He can kill at 70-80

Out of a combo string

WIch is mad stupid

[jovial prairie]

Yeah tbh we all are waiting for shaggy nerfs, he is top 1/2 (cuz joker exists) and I think they know about it

If they don't nerf him next patch I'm taking him my main lol

[willow beacon]

As a shaggy main, I agree he needs certain nerfs, but in exchange for some better combo game. But should he still have such insane charge attacks...no sir. Like even I get tilted when I kill someone with a charged uptilt at 40, like why did that kill...

[ruby topaz]

yea idk why they nerfed his combos but buff all of his stupid moves

shaggy should take more skill

[fierce slate]

Scum

[sleek breach]

Scum

[spare valley]

Lmao

[delicate latch]

I hate this

[zealous mulch]

☹️

[runic meadow]

Any tip on how to avoid getting looped in the ground by a shaggy? Do i have to tech without getting predicted?

[merry kiln]

di up or mix your di

[frozen geyser]

Ngl the PSA parody they posted is pretty good

[wind bay]

I 100% agree, they did really good. I love the old school vibe

[zealous mulch]

☹️

[stone stump]

Shaggy while bare bones, I feel like he shouldn’t be able to charge in the blast zone

That’s my only problem with him rn :p

[fierce slate]

Yah he scum

[arctic charm]

No messages in 3 days

[frozen geyser]

I’m kinda just waiting for season 3 to start and am playing other games in the meantime

[fierce slate]

Bro who asked

Bro thinks he’s the main character 😭🙏🏾

[frozen geyser]

Oof only nerfs with no compensation

7 second rage timer is gonna be really bad

Rage is probably gonna be unusable now

It doesn’t look like any of the changes will improve Shaggy’s combo game in any way, so seems like everyone else is getting improved combo ability except Shaggy and a few others

DC characters stay winning

[willow beacon]

...

Really don't see why the rage duration needed to get nerfed again

Also no more gaining rage at the edges of the blast zone ig

[delicate latch]

Lil bro he is top 2

The nerfs also didnt change much

[orchid wave]

They nerfed him again oh my god

[quartz hinge]

Bro thinks that will change something 💀☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️☠️

[delicate latch]

Deserved

[frozen geyser]

Why don’t you try using your brain for once and come up with a creative insult? You could go pretty far in life with enough creativity

[delicate latch]

Uh

He is actually top 2

What u on abt

Ask any top player

Hell even a decent player

Plus the nerfs didnt change much

He still busted

[frozen geyser]

7 second rage timer is really really short

You can probably sit on the angel platform to wait out the timer entirely between stocks

I’m fine with the nerf to charging rage at the blast zone

That one is justified

[delicate latch]

U know rage kills at 60 right

7 seconds timer aint a big deal

Just aproach

[frozen geyser]

Maybe if you’re on Cromulons

If you die at 60, idk what you’re doing

[delicate latch]

Thats shaggy rage kick

Shaggys up rage special

They all kill at 60

[frozen geyser]

Lmao no rage kick kills at closer to 80 and same with up special

[delicate latch]

Idc lil bro keep downplayer enjoy ur nerfs

[frozen geyser]

If you DI incorrectly, sure you can die earlier

But that’s a skill issue

[frozen geyser]

Same insult. Get new material

[delicate latch]

He still busted but at least its a start 😂

[delicate latch]

Ohhh no i cant hold rage for the entire game how am getting 30 dmg for free 🥺🥺🥺

[frozen geyser]

If you’re really folding to Shaggy rage kick that much, why don’t you practice parrying on reaction?

[delicate latch]

Its not only his side kick

He has a lot of issues

That werent changed at all

[frozen geyser]

Like what

[delicate latch]

Insane kill power
Infinite projectile spam
Insane dmg
Great neutral
Almost no whiff on most moves
Nair

[frozen geyser]

Lmao

[delicate latch]

Here comes the downplay

[frozen geyser]

You’re really complaining about Shaggy sandwich throw

[delicate latch]

"Hey guys you gotta understand i play this character, that mean that he isnt busted by any means!"

[delicate latch]

Yeah duhh

Its infinite

Its pretty fast

[frozen geyser]

Oh man Marvin has too many projectiles, better nerf him again

[delicate latch]

And he is a damn bruiser

Shaggy is a bruiser

Why does he need infinite projectiles

[frozen geyser]

Oh no Batman batterang is too good, time to remove it

[delicate latch]

It has cooldown dummy

Shaggys dont

[frozen geyser]

Nonexistent if he picks it back up

[delicate latch]

But at least u can react to it

He needs to go and pick it up

[frozen geyser]

What

Your thinking is backwards

[delicate latch]

Shaggy can just spam at any moment

Anywhere

[frozen geyser]

If anything, you can react to Shaggy sandwich because of the long pull animation

[delicate latch]

On the map

[delicate latch]

Still projectile spam

And it aint even that long time to reach

Him

[frozen geyser]

You’re probably just complaining because you’re getting hit by Shaggy sandwich as a punish for dirt spam

[delicate latch]

Only if he is near u

[delicate latch]

Oh no Shaggy actually beats Morty at zoning

Really cool right?

A bruiser

Beats a mage at zoning

[frozen geyser]

☠️

Dude the copium is unreal

[delicate latch]

It destroys granades

Nvm im going to leave

Ur just playing stupid

Just bcs u main him

Jesus chirst

Stop downplaying

[frozen geyser]

You really just want to try and call everyone tier wh*res who don’t play your character while downplaying your own

I never said Shaggy was bad btw

[delicate latch]

Lil bro eveyone agrees Shaggy is top 2 😂🙏

[frozen geyser]

But your reasons for why he’s strong are misguided

[delicate latch]

Im not alone in this one

[frozen geyser]

He’s not top 2

[delicate latch]

Oh wait true

[frozen geyser]

He’s maybe top 5

[delicate latch]

Top 1

My bad

[frozen geyser]

Lmao above Joker is crazy

Joker, Arya, WW, Steven, and Batman are all better imo

Shaggy is probably at #6

[delicate latch]

Insane Downplay buddy

[deft viper]

shaggy rn surely has fallen

he did need some combos tho

but even before, he wasnt top1

maybe top 5

[quartz hinge]

https://youtube.com/shorts/g1Lw8rIeM3E?si=WJHYIJUW1E-0eFmi

Shaggy's game plan

Explained

[merry kiln]

shaggy is arguably top 2 if not top 1 rn

the nerfs won't change much other than the rage timer he will stay as top 3

[delicate latch]

Finally someone sane

[past rock]

Buff shaggy

[upper nexus]

i'm saying

[past rock]

Make him charge rage faster

[upper nexus]

his neutral is jumping up and down, nair, and jab thats it most characters have significantly better ways to approach

[upper nexus]

bro fr like there is no point in using the sandwich perk it only goes like 3 frames faster istg

[delicate latch]

Ok we get it you like downplaying

[upper nexus]

❓

[delicate latch]

U act like Shaggy aint top 2

[upper nexus]

cause he aint lmao

[delicate latch]

😂

[delicate latch]

Why do u think that?? Oh wait bcs u main him 😂

[past rock]

Honestly I think the most egregious thing abt him is his kill power

[upper nexus]

you can make an argument that every character in this game is top 3 they all have their niches. shaggy can murder you at like 50 with charger side special but unless you are looking away from your monitor, you can stop him from charging 9 time out of 10

[delicate latch]

"This character doesnt need nerfs bcs... well, he is my main"

[upper nexus]

i genuinely do not think he needs nerfs most characters can outrange him, i mean yeah i like it when he isn't nerfed bc i main him but i think he's fine rn

he has high highs and low lows

[delicate latch]

Only highs highs

[past rock]

Only thing I would nerf is his knockback off the top of my head

Js cuz of how ez is it is to set up into a kill confirm

[upper nexus]

he legit can get outranged by any zoner characters unless you wanna drag the game out for 6 minutes and camp just as much as them. he really struggles getting in. granted when he does get a combo started he can go crazy but even then he relies a lot on reads and whiff punishing

[past rock]

Thts the way u deal w zoners lol

[upper nexus]

i will say his forward air is a bit excessive

[upper nexus]

yeah but im saying he just struggles in those matchups a bit more

[shell sigil]

You can reliably camp out rage with the nerfed duration now

[merry kiln]

shaggy is better now

he can kill earlier with reverse up tilt up special :)

[jovial prairie]

He can? Do you have footage?

[merry kiln]

#combos message

[jovial prairie]

NAHHHHH WHAT'S THAT

THAT'S NASTYYYY

[delicate latch]

Even earlier bruh isnt killing at 80 enough 😭

[untold carbon]

anyone else notice he barely got a movement buff like everyone else?

[frozen geyser]

Not loading for me

But based on what you said in the channel, their patch notes say they increased the DI influence multiplier, not the knockback

[magic leaf]

crazy how this character is currently way more broken than joker

[olive bolt]

At this point delete the whole character and give him a proper shaggy moveset

[orchid wave]

So I tried to test him again

He actually just has nothing

I thought he had nothing before but oh, my god.

Like

How bad are people at playing around Super Shaggy

That the devs look at this character they stripped everything from

And they just go “eh, we can take more from you.”

I am genuinely struggling to think of a character in this game that is worse atm

Legit the only explanation I can think of why they keep burying this character is someone at PFG plays him and just beats the other devs consistently

[merry kiln]

you can't be serious

[orchid wave]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think he has gotten a single positive change

The closest thing he got to a buff was a typo fix

[merry kiln]

he's top 1 rn

[orchid wave]

Stripped everything cool away from him and left him a damageless husk of kill moves with no synergy

[orchid wave]

You’re trolling

Did they discover a series of button inputs that instantly teleports you to a shaggy win screen or something

[frozen geyser]

They should just nerf the kill power of rage specials and allow him to keep the longer timer

Now rage is almost useless because you have no time to use it

[orchid wave]

I think the changes to supers in the release were fine

Mainly the “super blast can’t spike anymore”

[frozen geyser]

I’ve been saying this since the relaunch

Nerf kill power

Buff combo ability

[orchid wave]

Maybe reduce the kill power of super kick

A zone breaker that good at breaking zones maybe shouldn’t also be that strong

But super shoryu is fine

“Oh if I get jabbed I die at 70” Shaggy’s jab is the size of an atom that’s your fault

[frozen geyser]

Let Shaggy get 40-50% combos and just make it so rage specials don’t kill at like 70 and instead don’t kill until like 90

[orchid wave]

I think that’s fine

He used to have fun and hard death combos until Utilt Nair was patched

God release shaggy was so fun

[frozen geyser]

It still works at like below 10%

[orchid wave]

Like you can look back in time and shaggy gets progressively cooler

[orchid wave]

I haven’t gotten it once I need to practice more if that’s the case

[frozen geyser]

His best combo rn is jab 1,2 -> reverse utilt -> nair -> uair

[orchid wave]

Oh god

Sair used to hit there right???

I swear I made that work

[frozen geyser]

Oh yeah by bad sair

Uair also works

[orchid wave]

I also think you could shoryu some guys after the Nair and extend off of that

[frozen geyser]

It’s like 32 damage or something like that with snowball and pugilist

[frozen geyser]

Maybe on DI in, but never on DI out

Shoryu also hella slow

[orchid wave]

Dam

I just check the patch notes each month and deflate a little more each time when Shaggy gets either nothing or nerfs lmao

It’s become a running bit in my friend group

[merry kiln]

his combos are fine rn tho

[orchid wave]

I guess they are if your goal with Shaggy is beating him

[delicate latch]

Actual skill issue

[frozen geyser]

There’s no alternative routes

It’s the same combos over and over

Dair was usable in a lot of beta combos and it’s basically useless now

Sair was a combo starter

Every combo now starts from either jab or nair

And you either go the jab jab reverse utilt route or jab jab stomp DI check route

If we could do something like sair -> jab 1,2 -> stomp -> dair -> tech chase -> dodge jab 1,2 -> reverse utilt -> up special

That would be cool

And then just adjust the damage values so Shaggy doesn’t do like 70% combos

[frozen geyser]

I will say this is definitely downplay. Shaggy is still a high/top tier without question

[deft viper]

would bring me back to him

[delicate latch]

I would feel bad for u guys if he wasnt top 1

[frozen geyser]

Hey man all I want is some character expression

[deft viper]

i have 1k wins all from the beta

i didn't touch shaggy once in relaunch or only some times

[frozen geyser]

And Shaggy doesn’t have things like Rick’s portal setups or T&J Jerry/dynamite plays or prepatch Stripe gun cancels that would add to his character expression

There is like one optimal way to play Shaggy and that’s it

[frozen geyser]

Same

While I think the beta was definitely a bit too ridiculous, Shaggy had a lot of character in expression through differing combo routes

[merry kiln]

what else can they give him? we have
jab jab down tilt tech reads loop
jab jab down tilt dash or down tilt 2
jab jab up special
jab jab reverse up tilt up special/sair/up air/nair/ dodge read dair > nair jab jab and repeat
jab jab iad dair or sair
nair dash
nair jab jab
nair sair
down tilt iad sair

and a true zero to death

[frozen geyser]

So you just proved my point

It’s all jab and nair

[merry kiln]

I will forever prefer beta shaggy over this bc this is just a completely different character, he's a lot easier and basic and overall a one trick

[merry kiln]

what point? I was asking what they could give him to change that

[frozen geyser]

Oh I see. I thought you were listing everything he has to say he shouldn’t get anything else

[merry kiln]

I just don't think it's possible to change what he will be for the rest of the game

[frozen geyser]

I want sair to have less base knockback and up the knockback scaling to kill at higher percents, dair to have an earlier cancel window on hit, dtilt 1 to be able to be canceled into jump, and then you can nerf the damage and kill power of rage specials and make the timer 15 seconds like Smash Cloud limit

If reverse utilt is still a problem because reverse utilt into up special kills too early, nerf the knockback scaling of utilt so the opponent is vertically lower and up special won’t kill as early

[merry kiln]

the thing about reverse up tilt is that if they somehow get rid of it everyone's just gonna use jab jab up special and that sounds so so so so so boring

playing any shaggy is already really boring I cba

[arctic charm]

Buff shaggy

[timid nova]

i miss 12 second rage
7 seconds barely feels like any time to actually utilize it

[spare valley]

Crazy take imo

Mf still kills at like 100

But like side special is genuinely so toned down

That it feels not there anymore

It’s like slightly better Finn grounded side special

[timid nova]

i dont think he needs buffs
but i would like it if they could revert some of his nerfs they gave this patch bc damn overkill

[spare valley]

Which feels useless besides being fast because it has next to no range

[spare valley]

Agreed, maybe make rage last like 9-10 seconds instead

But just a tiny tiny kill power reduction

Like I get it he’s the tutorial character gotta be consistent

But I’m dead at 80 off one jab 😭

[timid nova]

its like
i have somebody at kill percent
i wanna hit them with charged neutral special for the kill
gotta line it up so it hits them just right
i start accidentally charging rage again bc it just ended
die instantly
this has happened like 5 times to me already this update

[spare valley]

Oof

Yeah I’m having problems too but with Finn grounded side special

It feels like it’s at a range where it always just barely stops short

[timid nova]

you could say that about a lot of things in this damn game lmao
everything feels like it stops just short of what you wanna hit
i blame the camera
i wish you could make it fixed or at least not as zoomed in

[timid nova]

either way
i am climbing that ladder again bit by bit
i was masters last season and im already diamond 2 rn

i wanna get shag to masters before nubia gets added in case she's problematic

or they nerf shaggy again for some reason

[frozen geyser]

Just nerf the rage specials knockback and/or damage instead of making rage nearly unusable with how quickly you need to burn it

If every rage special did like 5 less damage and killed like 20% later, no one would be complaining

[willow beacon]

^

Also making shaggy not use the sandwich when attacking would be a good revert imo, like beta

[deft viper]

that s for everyone too

[willow beacon]

Why is the charged neutral fist knocking enemies upwards, they need to fix that

[timid nova]

made it to diamond 1 but i'm hard stuck by top players
i only really just want the skin so i think im just gonna wait and hope that the rest of the ranked people catch up

[frozen geyser]

That’s typically how it goes

If you heavily grind day 1, you get easy masters since the only people you can match with are lower ranks

Even a day later and you’ll constantly run into the people no-lifing the game

[timid nova]

yeah, i see what you mean
i decided to try again tonight but i lost 10 sets in a row and it pushed me back to halfway through diamond 2
maybe i should just wait until like halfway thru the season or something

god i'm really feeling these shaggy nerfs why did they do this to my boy
you charge rage and your opponent just runs away from you for 5 seconds until it runs out

[frozen geyser]

If rage is such a problem, they should’ve just nerfed the damage and kill power of rage specials instead of making the timer so short that it’s practically useless

[merry kiln]

idk about y’all but I really haven’t been noticing much different with shaggy other than the momentum changes which make him feel better

[timid nova]

idk sometimes it just feels like for most of my matches im just chasing my opponent until they lock me in a combo that does 50 dmg or 0td

maybe its just a me issue with how i play shaggy

arya especially can be a challenge

ofc i could just be skill issuing

[timid nova]

finally did it lmao
feels good

[pallid tinsel]

I always thought Shaggy would be Super Saiyan Shaggy

[drifting cosmos]

Hello guys

This character its nuts

Got to be top 1 right now

[timber vigil]

Fave Scooby Doo character in the game.

[willow beacon]

Wait so if someone leaves when you haven't finished your set. It boots me out and I don't get any RP...

So you can just stop people from getting rp if you want ig

[frozen geyser]

Yes, but they lose like 15 RP as a penalty for rage quitting

I’ve always thought that if I have a lead whether it be in game count, stock count, or having less damage on equal stocks and my opponent intentionally disconnects, I should be awarded the points

This goes for other games like Tekken too where you also don’t get any points if your opponent intentionally disconnects

[past rock]

Farming golds thru diamond 😭🙏

[delicate latch]

Cant wait to Shaggy to leave the top 1 spot

[lusty cove]

cant wait for shaggy to get butchered into ground

[orchid wave]

He’s been ground into a fine paste yet you still desire more

Gluttonous

[orchid wave]

Shaggy has not received a single positive change in memory, not in the full release, not in beta. (I don’t really count the changes from beta to release)

[delicate latch]

Insane downplay??

He is top 1

No whiff moves and like 1000 dmg out of 1 combo string

[orchid wave]

He does like 27 max true

Utilt is gagged

Dair is nigh worthless

You just guess off of jab jab Dtilt where your opp will tech

And if you get it right you get to stale your only starter a little more

He’s a disheveled, comboless husk held together by a ridiculous Sair that should have gotten hit instead of his other moves, otherwise good kill power, and a super that itself has also been nerfed to the point of being ludicrously telegraphed and easy to counterplay due to shaggy being slower than a snail riding a turtle through KY jelly

Not only is he not good, he’s not fun

It’s not fun to slowly run at someone, lose 99 neutral interactions, then hit a Sair at 60 by the ledge and kill your opponent

They’ve systematically stripped him of every last cool thing he had while not addressing some of his actual issues, and because those actual issues weren’t addressed, people still whine and cry about him

It’s incessantly annoying and frustrating how each and every patch just makes this character less and less enjoyable

Sure, if you perfectly read every single defensive option you’re opponent makes, you can make shaggy look cool

That is also a thing with every other character in this game

He’s probably a little better than what I give him credit for, but claiming that the comboless, damageless, neutral-less husk of a corpse that remains of what shaggy was is even sniffing top tier, let alone top 1, is delusional thinking.

[merry kiln]

50 without rage 40 non di dependent 0 to death with rage, 60 damage minimum with rage non di dependent

[merry kiln]

momentum changes make his dair a lot better than it already was, since you can approach with it now

[merry kiln]

he is arguably top 1 bfr

[orchid wave]

How the hell are you ToDing as shaggy, Reverse Utilt Nair lines are just gone, you can’t jump out of jab either.

[merry kiln]

a terrible player can make shaggy look top tier, his combos are so simple and deadly

[merry kiln]

rage down special dodge jab jab down tilt if they di in jab jab down reverse up tilt air up special, if they di out dodge jab jab reverse up tilt air up special

or rage down special dodge jab jab iad dair jab jab up special up air or reverse up tilt up special

[orchid wave]

Oh nice you have to hit one of the most telegraphed moves in the game AND it’s DI dependent, fantastic

I genuinely don’t remember if you lose super if you dodge cancel it but I wouldn’t be surprised given how much the devs hate this character

[merry kiln]

yeah because you’d rather he had a 0td they can do nothing about like he’s not the most broken character in the game already

do you want the clips?

genuinely shaggy has the simplest combo routes ever and they all do 30+ damage

and he can always kill really early

[jovial prairie]

Annie is probably the most honest shaggy main I have ever seen holy

[orchid wave]

Literally the only thing he’s retained throughout the patches and it’s the main thing people complain about

[merry kiln]

his down tilt needs to send far away to prevent loops
his grounded up special needs knockback nerfs
his jab one needs whiff
his knee needs to be nerfed one way or another.. one dodge in charged knee read and they’re launched all the way across the screen at zero

[orchid wave]

God I miss when that was weaker in beta

He actually had a poke that led into jab

[merry kiln]

I’d rather they completely change his up special.. I think that’d fix it

[orchid wave]

What could they possibly do to change it that wouldn’t just kill him

Jab jab shoryu has been a bnb forever

[merry kiln]

beta shaggy was an entirely different character, the uniqueness potential is what made me use him 😔

[orchid wave]

Beta Shaggy was cool as hell

Well except that one time his down tilt was obscene

Armor breaking move with armor on startup that ToD’d you if you got hit by it

[merry kiln]

make the normal knee do the same knockback a disjointed knee would do, and make the disjointed knee weaker

[orchid wave]

Wavestomping was a thing too

[merry kiln]

all that was gone by the end of the first month of the beta’s release

[orchid wave]

I was talking about shoryu but I’d be fine with that if we got some Utilt sauce back

[merry kiln]

I’ve been saying this since the first few weeks.. kill all of his kill power but give us combos

I really wouldn’t mind if I could combo up tilt into dair 100% of the time but end the combo with like 40 damage

jab jab up tilt dair nair jab jab or dash

shaggy is broken and he will remain broken for as long as the game goes on

[orchid wave]

Honestly I wouldn’t mind base shoryu being weaker if that nerf didn’t affect super shoryu

Super Shoryu has thankfully always felt phenomenal to hit, and I’d like the super moves to remain super

Definitely don’t think Shaggy is broken though, he’s probably… fine? I’ve just had a hell of a falling out with him because my favorite parts of him were all the combo lines and they keep getting taken away

[merry kiln]

the reason he’s top tier right now is because with season 2’s mid season patch they decreased ground bounce, which made his down tilt loop much much more consistent.. that along with the fact every other top tier got practically gutted, making him stand out

people who don’t know anything about the character are picking him and getting results, that’s how you know something is wrong with the character

[orchid wave]

Ah so he can just glue you to the ground and tech read you to death

[merry kiln]

that and his untouched ridiculous kill power

[orchid wave]

Knee my beloved

[merry kiln]

I’ve seen top shaggys be clueless about things the character has

[jovial prairie]

Tbh I miss when the game used more hits to do dmg

Like even jab jab uptilt up b felt way better on beta

[merry kiln]

they don’t have a reason to find out more when all they have to do is jab jab and dodge in read

[orchid wave]

I mean, a lot of his nuances are just gone now

So I don’t really blame them

Seems like you really want to air camp shaggy

Black Adam might be nice

Got disjoints that hit at that downwards angle

[delicate latch]

I want Shaggy nerfed so badly

Sooooo badly

I cant wait

[merry kiln]

tough luck 💞

[orchid wave]

I mean it practically happens every month, so you won’t need to wait that long.

[delicate latch]

Wtf Lil bro whats this downplaying

Im sorry but ur straight up lying

[orchid wave]

He literally either gets nerfed or unchanged every patch

[delicate latch]

Good

Cuz he is top1

[orchid wave]

You’re just incorrect on this lmao

[delicate latch]

Tell me smth bad abt Shaggy

Ima wait

[orchid wave]

Ridiculous lack of disjoints

[delicate latch]

He doesnt need any lol

[orchid wave]

Before you say sandwich that thing takes 5 years to pluck and throw

[delicate latch]

its infinite and is super fast? And it doesnt even take that long

[orchid wave]

Super also expiring on super sandwich took away its prime niche of being free

[delicate latch]

Thats not even an issue from Shaggy

[orchid wave]

Not to mention anti airing as this character is agony

Wimpiest anti airs of all time

[delicate latch]

Wdym?

Ur saying his air tools are bad

?

[orchid wave]

Uair and aerial up b just don’t do anything most of the time

You gotta double jump knee to get any impact

[delicate latch]

Uair is good wdym

[orchid wave]

Ok you’re actually trolling

[delicate latch]

The same with up b

[orchid wave]

I mean it should’ve been obvious beforehand but yeah I get the bit now

[delicate latch]

Watch and tournament and see how much they use it

If u dont thats on u

[merry kiln]

yeah you can spam up air until they land then jab

since it has no whiff

[orchid wave]

That thing is the size of an atom literally just swing down on it with anything

[delicate latch]

U still did not say smth bad abt Shaggy

Like smth that makes him bad

[deft viper]

u know it s downplaying when also the top 1 shaggy is coming to argue lol

[upper nexus]

shaggy neutral is so bad

[cinder kettle]

Need a bit of advice against the Powerpuff Girls with Shaggy. I know it's only a week in but I'm kinda struggling for the most part.

[upper nexus]

yeah its a weird matchup. some characters have weird hitboxes that fall out of some of shaggys moves or just dont even hit. you kinda just gotta wait for them too whiff and get a good punish. they like to use their aerial side special a lot so just try to react to that and then read their dodges idk

[drifting cosmos]

Yo this guy its the most braindead and broken character in the game

[drifting cosmos]

Its an bad mu

[jovial prairie]

I wish Shaggy was weaker, he feels so good to play, I really like reading dodges

[merry kiln]

he’s got the most rewarding dodge reads imo

I don’t really like that

[jovial prairie]

Really? I feel like it's pretty fun to do them but tbh I don't go for heavy reads, just the normal "Up tilt here to see if you dodge in"

Maybe that's why I don't cheese that much with them

I just like reading my opponents like they are a book

[merry kiln]

dodge in reads are really strong for charged knees or near the top up specials

[frozen geyser]

No, that’s definitely Jason

[fierce slate]

SCUM

[delicate latch]

Funny how Shaggy has like 1 bad match up

And its not even an big deal

[lapis notch]

returning shaggy secondary here, are the sig perks still any good?

also what are the thoughts on airwalker and the new perks?

[jovial prairie]

I mean, depends on your playstyle, personally I only use 5% cuz they nerfed rage and when you are at 100% people are already waiting for rage to just dissapear, I think 5% is more consistent and makes you a better player since you don't rely on the comeback

Airwalker uhhhhh, it's funny to use if you like freestyle and new things but I don't use it as much as I wish

Any other like "triple jump" are bad ngl

[lapis notch]

got it

also are there any actual combos? I feel like alot of the combos i'm familiar with aren't actually true anymore

[jovial prairie]

I'm not expert but what I use at low % is
jab jab turn around up attack (jump) up b
jab jab turn around up attack (jump) neutral air
Dash attack (if they ground bounce) side b
Down air side air
Down air up air

By far my favorite is like the one at the start, land with nair, jab jab turn around up attack up b

And as a finisher just go for jab jab up b, really easy and just kills insanely early lol

Shaggy has way more but I think someone here can help you more

My playstyle is reading the opponent as much as I can so I don't know all the bnb

[lapis notch]

any particular reason for the turnarounds?

[jovial prairie]

Mix ups DI
Isn't hard to do tbh, just try it

[green tinsel]

nope. thats why shaggys only spam side special now

[frozen geyser]

No, rage timer is pathetic so just run 5%

His best perks are probably still 5%, snowball, last stand, and pugilist

[frozen geyser]

Due to the hitstun nerf to grounded up attack back in season 2, you need to reverse it after jab to get any follow up besides uair which is fast enough to combo out of the regular version

Your only combo starters are jab and staled nair

And you’ll pretty much either combo jab 1,2 into reverse up attack or stomp

A typical combo at low percent goes something like nair -> jab 1,2 -> reverse up attack -> nair -> uair

(The first nair is optional btw and you can also just do the combo out of jab)

The other route is jab 1,2 -> stomp and then you either go for jab 1,2 -> stomp again for a tech chase or down attack 2/dash attack as a finisher

And then there’s jab 1,2 -> up special at around 90-100 and jab 1,2 -> reverse up attack -> air up special at around 80 as kill confirms

And that’s pretty much it

The only other thing you can do is fish for random kill moves like sair or throw out a panic rage special within the 7 second timer

You’re gonna spend the majority of your time just waiting for your opponent to whiff so you can punish with either dash attack or dodge jab

[dusty walrus]

Wait did they finally add staling to the game?

[frozen geyser]

It’s been in the game since the relaunch

They just still call it attack decay

[dusty walrus]

Oh

Idk how I never noticed

[frozen geyser]

Your moves deal less damage and knockback the more you use them

And that has the side effect of making said moves also have less hitstun

This is why certain near frame tight combos suddenly can become not guaranteed anymore

[jovial prairie]

Watching old footage of Shaggy and damn... I regret not playing him enough on beta, I spend most of my time playing Morty, shaggy was also fun to play

[past rock]

I keep getting brutalized by oog bro smith is a problem 😭

[minor ferry]

Oog is also really good lol

[past rock]

Def

Next time we run it I’m winning tho

[merry kiln]

oog is best smith

[minor ferry]

@cerulean condor It seems you have a challenger next time

Will the Smith continue to reign supreme?

[past rock]

Ye ik

[past rock]

Nah my Lebron slams 🤫

[jovial prairie]

Why is my movement so fluid and I can dodge everything when I play shaggy but no when I play with my main 😭

[past rock]

Cus shaggy js better

[delicate latch]

Shaggy is a problem

[past rock]

You right

[hazy quiver]

nah he's wrong

[dusty walrus]

Does it work like Smash where there’s a staling list for your moves?

[frozen geyser]

I believe so, but idk how long the queue is

In beta, the attack decay queue was 7, so it’s probably the same

[delicate latch]

This character is so cancer

He needs to be nerfed

The only way to beat Shaggy is outplaying him

Cuz he has no counter play

[deft viper]

playing him rn

my old main feels good 😎

[delicate latch]

U can do anything with actual no risk and get like insane hig reward

His projectile and rage should have cooldown

[delicate latch]

And he should also have more whiff and less knockback

Less dmg

Less everything

[deft viper]

yeah

am making everyone ragequit

in ranked

[deft viper]

not rage but sandwich yea

[delicate latch]

If they nerf Rage maybe

[deft viper]

it s already easy to counter it rn unless u get caught in 5 seconds

[delicate latch]

Cuz it does 28 dmg, kills at 60, gives 3 stacks of weakned, has armor and is almost unreactable

U can also use rage up special on an jab string which is stupid

[deft viper]

yeah the weakened is insane

since if u get hit again you ll get 30+ dmg more in a normal string

i wouldnt say it s unreactable tho, very predictable

[delicate latch]

The problem is that it has armor tbh

It shouldnt

Cuz it already does alway too much dmg and knockback

There is no need to tank hits

[deft viper]

yeah and

the fact that i can play without using rage and still destroy is nuts

basically you use rage as a vision check if they want to stop you or not

[jovial prairie]

I like how uncle shagworthy has the new emote bugged so he is literally eating a giant piece of air

[frozen geyser]

Wait Batman has loops now?

[fierce slate]

Ofc

[frozen geyser]

Ok, they still need to fix these servers

One game was pretty stuttery and I just lagged out and then immediately crashed in the next

[jovial prairie]

Thank you Shaggy for being an easy character so I can farm the new tokens with the new skin on 1's 🙏

[frozen geyser]

Dude something is wrong

The matchmaking keeps failing after game 1

3 times in a row now

[jovial prairie]

Same thing happened to me

I restarted and everything's fine now

But happened 2 times in a row

[normal portal]

Did the nerf the shaggy dodge spam tactic?

[frozen geyser]

Dodge spam is good with every character

Shaggy’s dodge isn’t even the best

The best dodge is Morty iirc

[normal portal]

Nahh, i used to do like that air dodge tactic, and draw like squares in the air around the enemy

[frozen geyser]

Dude what is this game

Why did I die to Morty grenade uair at 30

Why does grenade have so much knockback

[willow beacon]

Why the f*** did they make the mystery inc van insta kill

[frozen geyser]

So that tech bug is still present

The one where if you tech at a ledge, you go flying off into the blast zone

So like they have already a function in place that stops T&J from walking off the ledge during paddle

They should just apply that to tech as well

Problem solved

[willow beacon]

I just grabbed the sandwich while falling off the ledge and immediately died, wasn't even mad, that looked goofy as hell

[willow beacon]

Idk if they shadow buffed Adam's weight back up, cuz it seems to me that he lives longer than he did pre nerf

[merry kiln]

huh that's still possible?

[willow beacon]

It seems so, but it looks like more of a bug thing than it being true

[pale notch]

shaggy mains i will be making a nice french style demi baguette sandwhich subway style. u like?

[frozen geyser]

Man people are so toxic. 1-1 in ranked and I go idle from the server disconnect glitch in game 3 and dude has the audacity to salt

Won that game anyway

[floral estuary]

how do i do that one move where shaggy just claps his hands together after hitting a certain combo

[willow beacon]

That's the second down attack, after the stomp

[frozen geyser]

So many people forget that the clap exists and I’ve gotten a lot of kills at ledge with it

[wind bay]

Same🤩

[frozen geyser]

Man I guess I have to play this game in spurts because I keep having connection issues

[frozen geyser]

There’s still a lot of time left in the season, so I can take my time. Already diamond 2

[glass narwhal]

yo

best perks for shaggy?

[frozen geyser]

5%, snowball, last stand, pugilist

[glass narwhal]

bet

thanks

im new to him so

trynna learn him and bugs rn

[willow beacon]

I'd like to run last stand, but Shaggy is PAINFULLY slow without the speed perk. How do y'all manage?

[frozen geyser]

Painfully slow? Shaggy is one of the faster characters in the game

Iron Giant and Jason are painfully slow

[jovial prairie]

My man haven't play Morty or Garnet without speed force 💀

[frozen geyser]

Dude first game on and I get that disconnect glitch

Lost what should’ve been an easy 2-0

Woo happened again

Man I like this game but I can’t keep playing if the servers are gonna crap themselves so often

[frozen geyser]

Got a rematch against the guy and got my RP back because I didn’t disconnect this time

[frozen geyser]

Dude why do I keep randomly crashing mid match

[upper nexus]

is using last stand perk bad?

i've been using it since day 1 besides when the sandwich perk was actually good but i like it a lot for when im getting juggled and i hit 100 and i get a get off me with neutral special

[jovial prairie]

It's mid... The problem is that it's bugged, normally when you hit the kick with rage you get 3 stacks with weakened

And the problem comes here cuz if you have last stand active you only get 1 weakened stack with rage losing 2 stacks of weakened

I really like using it against characters that are bad at killing like marvin, other than that 2 fast 2 block is perfect against heavy armor characters like sups or ww, specially because the dash attack of Shaggy is so good

[frozen geyser]

No, last stand is pretty much the best perk 2 hands down. While the bug where last stand’s single weaken stack overrides Shaggy’s rage specials triple weaken stack, rage only lasts for 7 seconds and the general moves dealing 5%/10%/15% more damage and knockback which stacks on top of the 10% bonus damage and knockback from pugilist and the 7% damage and knockback bonus from snowball effect to allow Shaggy’s base kill moves like up special, sair, kick, clap, and dash attack to kill extremely early

Fully charged max weaken sair with 5%, snowball, and pugilist buffs makes sair deal 37% more damage and knockback letting it kill at like 40 against light characters at ledge

[spring solar]

Should I learn this character if I like rushing people down and hitting them really hard

I play Finn and I’m trying to find a second character to learn for 1v1

[frozen geyser]

Shaggy, Batman, Arya, Harley, Taz, and Smith are all good aggressive rush down characters

[spring solar]

I’ve tried out Batman and Arya but they didn’t feel exactly right to me

Haven’t tried Taz much. Idk how he works

Don’t got Smith or Harley

Shaggy is probably easy to play by design if he’s the first character you get in the game

[frozen geyser]

There are two ways of playing Taz, you either turn your brain off with tornado and dogpile or learn his actual combos out of jab, nair, dair, and dtilt

Shaggy is like the Mario of MVS

Fast, short range, decent combos, medium weight

Tho, Shaggy’s neutral game is pretty linear. Your main combo starters are jab, nair, and dair

And the only way to get in is to force your way in

[spring solar]

Hmm guess that makes sense

[frozen geyser]

He doesn’t have any good zoning tools to control neutral like Bugs safe, Batman’s batterang, T&J Jerry shot, etc

[spring solar]

I assume throwing sandwiches helps with neutral

[frozen geyser]

Kinda

The time to pull a sandwich is pretty long and holding one removes your access to any ground or air normals

Personally, I only use sandwich for off stage edgeguarding or as a niche counter zoning option

Super sandwich is laughably bad, so don’t really ever use it

It’s really slow and easy to react to

And it does less damage than all of the rage specials

While consuming rage

But like the entire gameplan with Shaggy is mostly bait and punish with jab or nair and then whiff punishing or overextending with dodge dair or dash attack

[spring solar]

Ok ok

I mean running around and trying to land jab is what playing Finn trained me to do LMAO

[frozen geyser]

A few combos to try out are:

1. Jab 1,2 -> dtilt 1,2
2. Jab 1,2 -> dtilt -> instant dash attack
3. Jab 1,2 -> reverse utilt -> uair (or up special)
4. Jab 1,2 -> dtilt -> jab 1,2 -> dtilt -> tech chase with dash attack
5. Jab 1,2 -> up special

At lower percents or on bad DI, nair can lead into jab as a starter for any of these combos

Dair won’t have any true follow ups until mid percents

The only other thing to note is that Shaggy’s jab 2 hitbox is awful and will whiff randomly against shorter or thinner characters like Arya

[spring solar]

Oof okay

[frozen geyser]

But like his entire gameplan is majority looking for jab starters

Or and his sair is also really
Powerful to use as an ender for any combo

Especially if you hit the initial sweetspot

For perks, Shaggy’s best ones are 5%, snowball, last stand, and pugilist

[spring solar]

I'm finding that A LOT of characters use this exact perk set up

[frozen geyser]

With the nerf to the rage timer making it only 7 seconds, One Last Zoinks is kinda useless since you’ll likely only have like 2-3 seconds to use rage after you get comboed

[spring solar]

The falcon knee right? Lol

[frozen geyser]

Yeah

Hangry Man is also useless after it got nerfed as well

Rage takes about 4 seconds to change and with Hangry Man, it’s 3 seconds. But you need to pull sandwich first which already takes like 2-3 seconds

Granted, it was broken before with like a 1 second charge time

[frozen geyser]

Pugilist makes you deal an extra 10% damage and knockback with every melee attack (which also affects the hitstun allowing combos to be true earlier, but only by like a frame or two), weaken in general is insanely broken and each stack makes you deal an extra 5% damage and knockback so anyone who can survive to 100% consistently gets huge benefits from last stand weaken, and snowball is the only good perk 1 because Shaggy moves too fast to be able to use something like the projectile shield one

With 5%, snowball, pugilist, and 3 stacks of weaken, Shaggy’s moves deal 37% more damage and knockback

Which is incredibly broken for any moves with high base knockback line Shaggy’s rage specials, sair, or up special

It’s the same story for why Taz tornado kills so early

High base knockback but then the perks add an additional 37% more knockback

[frozen geyser]

I’ve killed with fully charged Shaggy sair at around 40 before due to this

[spring solar]

Geez, well I get why people use it

[frozen geyser]

Yeah

[spring solar]

I kinda have the same set for Finn

[frozen geyser]

Personally, I think weaken should be nerfed to only deal 3% extra damage and knockback

[spring solar]

Weakened helps him get kills without carrying the enemy to tbe blast zone

[spring solar]

Yeah something needs to be done about it for sure

[frozen geyser]

So many characters can get stupid early cheese kills with max weaken

[spring solar]

||Batman tryhards||

[frozen geyser]

Iron Giant up special kills egregiously early when he has last stand

[frozen geyser]

People act like Shaggy killing at 80 makes him top 1 when characters like Batman do the same with better neutral

Not saying Shaggy is bad btw

But like from playing other platform fighters, it’s very clear that the majority of MVS players have no idea how to deal with rush down characters

But back to Shaggy stuff. Shaggy’s best matchups are against big characters like Jason and his worst are against small characters like Arya

[spring solar]

We love comboing heavies

[frozen geyser]

Shaggy’s worst matchup is likely either Arya, Batman, Morty, or Finn

His best is easily Jason

But other good matchups are Jack, Iron Giant, and Garnet

[spring solar]

Alright

[spring solar]

Side note but what's yall favorite Shaggy skin?

I like his "Ultra Warrior" skin that basically makes him Ryu from Street Fighter lol

[frozen geyser]

That one is probably my favorite as well

The circuit drone skin used to have purple nipples when used with the shirt rip taunt, but they removed that

[jovial prairie]

Morty is not a bad matchup for shaggy

It's used to be but they nerfed dirt and you are way to fast + he is light

[frozen geyser]

They nerfed dirt but don’t worry, grenade still randomly kills at 40 and dirt still applies 2 stacks of weaken and can be confirmed out of from jab, and uair always applies flammable with good kill power, and you have the second best dodge in the game, and crouching refills your dodge meter and gives you a nearly nonexistent hitbox

If Shaggy couldn’t whiff punish dirt spam with dash attack, the matchup would be unwinnable

Now Morty can’t just mindlessly spam dirt and win

He needs to actually put in some thought

But it’s still losing for Shaggy

But most Morty players I run into are still trying to dirt spam exclusively to win and don’t know how to do anything like juggle grenades, land jab confirms, use crouch to avoid 75% of Shaggy’s moves, etc

[jovial prairie]

I agree nades are stupid and are a fundamental thing to dodge but that's literally all Morty has to beat Shaggy, a lucky nade that kills early, while you as Shaggy can dodge everything, not even gonna talk about how slow Morty is compared to Shaggy, if he misses blaster you just rush him for free, and btw Morty can't do anything if you fall on his head, his up tilt sucks at covering and up air is more of a kill option (Unless he does IAD and that isn't worth just to cover a dair/nair)

It's so easy for you to punish Morty as Shaggy and kill him early since he is more light than you

He doesn't have anything to cover dodge jab unless it's blaster but again, It has a cooldown

Shaggy is my secondary and I know very well that he doesn't have any bad matchup, just batman, Morty is not something you need to worry as Shaggy lol

[frozen geyser]

Shaggy is my main and he has more losing matchups than just Batman. Being a top tier doesn’t mean you can’t have any losing matchups. But for some reason people think that if a character is better than theirs on a tier list, they have to have a losing matchup against them which is absolutely not true

Batman, Arya, and Finn are definitely losing and Morty is slight losing imo

And Morty is only slight losing for Shaggy because he got nerfed so that dirt spam is actually punishable

But everything else in his kit was buffed so like I don’t see how one nerf suddenly makes the matchup 180

And a losing matchup doesn’t mean the matchup is unwinnable. Another issue I see is that everyone who says a matchup is losing talks about it as if it’s literally unwinnable

When in reality, most losing matchups in this game are like 40:60 at worst barring a few exceptions

[jovial prairie]

It's a +1 for shaggy and even fatpac said it, pretty sure any other shaggy main is going to say he wins the matchup

As I said it used to be bad because shaggy was slower and you could dirt him all day but not anymore, not after the momentum changes

[frozen geyser]

Shaggy got no momentum changes except dair lol

Hardly relevant in the matchup at all

[jovial prairie]

It is when Morty doesn't have a good way to cover dairs lol

Maybe you don't know enough of the matchup

[past rock]

How do yall deal w joker?

[frozen geyser]

You kinda just need to outplay him

He doesn’t have any real clearly exploitable weaknesses

[frozen geyser]

Ah the classic “just learn the matchup bro”

I know the matchup and I don’t often lose to Morty. But just because I don’t often lose to Morty doesn’t mean that Shaggy wins the matchup. Most of the Morty’s I’ve played are not very good at the game

It’s the same sort of thing with the general public thinking Superman is mid because they have no idea how to optimally play him

[jovial prairie]

I'm not saying to learn the matchup of Shaggy Morty, I'm saying to learn the matchups of YOUR character, even the best Morty, the one that is getting a lot of placements in tournaments says shaggy is not a good matchup for morty

https://x.com/Nan0non/status/1842454273805721651?t=Xd9vt8ia1F56HQfxGDxrXA&s=19

[cyan tinsel]

i think shaggy beats morty if anyone cares what i think 😃

[frozen geyser]

Wait Shaggy changes seem interesting. I’ll need to see how the air down special change works

I’d still like them to just nerf the damage of rage specials and increase the timer back to like 15 seconds

I’m wondering how air down special would work if you dodge cancel it

Like would it functionally be a Superman up special in that it just kills at zero off stage?

[jovial prairie]

Talking about shaggy beating Morty, ggs @cyan tinsel ur shaggy's crazy

[cyan tinsel]

appreciate it bro ggs

[merry kiln]

shaggy buff 😵‍💫

[jovial prairie]

So... Shaggy still top 1?

[merry kiln]

probably

[tight ruin]

Most

He is top 1, like, he doesn't care the weakened nerf in his side special that thing stills nuts

[willow beacon]

EVERY SINGLE UPDATE they do makes my store bugged, and when you literally just enter it and leave, the game freezes and you need to reset the whole thing...this is on PS4 btw. Anyone else experiencing this?

[upper nexus]

he is not top 1

i genuinely do not think he is that crazy

like his neutral is trash

he has a lot of bad mu's

he is still like top 5 fs

[jovial prairie]

That's more on you, Shaggy is pretty fast making you have a clean neutral, he has a good option against many of other character options and more, I agree he has bad matchups but that's pretty much normal

About him being top 1 we gotta see, I haven't see how broken nubia is but I'm pretty sure Shaggy is still in the top 3

They haven't remove any important combo or remove weakened just like what happened to other chars

[upper nexus]

i can deal with his neutral fine i have like almost 1400 wins w him, im just saying compared to others on the cast, he is lower in that department because he is just a boxer and has no range at all besides sandwich but we all know how mid sandwich is. tbf i dont play many other high level shaggy players the only shaggy players i play against are the ones w like 300 wins and spam side special and suck a lot. i do perform very well with him but certain characters like t&j, marvin, and sometimes batman even i can struggle a bit

i think what makes shaggy "broken" is his kill power because if we're being real here it is stupid. i think if they tone down the damage and knock back of some of his moves he would be more toned. he still has to rely on a lot of reads and 1-2 combos he doesnt get super long strings without reads

[jovial prairie]

Oh yeah, that's why we gotta see, there's a lot of zoners who are really broken this patch, Bugs still broken af and more, Finn got buffed so let's just wait and see what Shaggy has to offer this patch, I still think he's pretty good, you can't just dodge jab like before

Still a good char, dunno if he's broken rn but I don't think he is going to leave top 5

[upper nexus]

yeah he still sitting pretty in high tier

why did they change shaggy's batman skin 😭😭😭

[frozen geyser]

From what I’ve heard, Rick might be a top tier this patch

[dusty walrus]

Y’all I haven’t played this game in ages

Does anyone have a recent tier list?

I want to see what the meta looks like rn

[spring solar]

Oh hey

The game literally just got a mid season patch update so maybe wait a little bit for a tier list because a lot of balance changes happened

[jovial prairie]

Basically what he said but if you play shaggy then you are okay, this character always feels good and powerful

[frozen geyser]

Shaggy, Bugs, Joker, Rick, WW, Smith, Arya, Batman, and Steven are probably the top tiers currently

But Harley, Superman, PPG, Beetlejuice, Taz, Reindog, Finn, and Morty aren’t too far behind

[frozen geyser]

The only genuinely bad characters now are like Jake and Velma

But like even they have some sauce now

[unkempt adder]

is there a server for shaggy?

[dusty walrus]

People have finally started to admit that Taz is good

Reindog is surprising tho. Not that I thought he was bad, but nobody was really playing him at all for a while

[frozen geyser]

Reindog has always been a sleeper high tier

But he’s just so underplayed

That no one caught on

His disadvantage stage literally doesn’t exist because he can just turn into a ball and reach the other side of the stage at Mach 2

[spring solar]

Tbh the one company original character isn’t gonna be popular in a game filled with super famous film/animation characters

[frozen geyser]

If there is, I’m not currently in it

[frozen geyser]

Reindog should’ve been a free character

In a sea of famous IPs, Reindog stands alone as the “who is this?” character

[spring solar]

Yeah, it’s weird

Like people at least know who banana guard is

Reindog is even more “who invited bro?” than him

[frozen geyser]

Yeah

[tight ruin]

Joker isnt

[merry kiln]

yeah

[frozen geyser]

Are they actually gonna reduce the effectiveness of weaken?

3% instead of 5% should be fine I’d think if they are

[willow beacon]

How is Shaggy feeling rn? Haven't played post patch yet.

[frozen geyser]

I wouldn’t know because my PC can’t connect to internet rn

[jovial prairie]

Good as always, he feels almost the same and has a new mechanic with aerial down b

[spring solar]

Bruh they removed last stand to do maintenance on it LMAO

[frozen geyser]

I’m hoping this means they

1. Nerf weaken to deal 3% extra damage and knockback per stack instead of 5%
2. Work properly with moves that are supposed to deal more than 1 stack of weaken

[merry kiln]

shaggy combos #combos message

[frozen geyser]

Yeah I had a feeling the air down special change would create a loop

They’d have to do something weird like you can’t dodge cancel on hit to fix it

Or like the opponent can act out of hitstun immediately after canceling it with dodge

[eternal prism]

I mean they basically made shaggy down special into Lebrons beta side special so obviously you can infinite loop.

[frozen geyser]

I do like the concept of the change, but like the execution needs a bit of work

[eternal prism]

It makes me wonder if they were gonna do that why not add that active drag down back to Lebron side special

[frozen geyser]

Wasn’t Lebron’s just a spike like Superman up special tho?

Shaggy’s appears to be a grab

[eternal prism]

I mean the effect here is the same though cause you can drag people down into a hit

[frozen geyser]

No this is different

[eternal prism]

I mean mechanically yes but the use will still be the same

[frozen geyser]

Notice how in Jenette’s clip that the opponent goes nowhere after canceling

Which means it’ll never ground bounce

Lebron’s would and then wouldn’t lead to loops because of auto tech

[eternal prism]

You could cancel dunk into dair with lebron before a ground bounce

At least in beta

Actually I did a similar thing in the release version

[frozen geyser]

So like yeah he should definitely get beta dunk back and then just reduce the strength of dunk to compensate because otherwise he’d probably just combo into dunk from anything and kill at like 60

Honestly, I hope they tone down the kill power of like basically everyone

Except like Jason

[eternal prism]

Yeah like Jake

[frozen geyser]

Because that’s supposed to be his whole gimmick

[eternal prism]

Jake too OP

[frozen geyser]

I don’t understand why they buffed Jake uair to “give him more kill potential” when uair was already his best kill move by far

Why don’t they improve the knockback scaling of sair so you can’t live fully charged sair at 170

[eternal prism]

Yeah doesn’t shaggy also kill super early still? Or did they tone that down this patch?

[frozen geyser]

Only rage kick

Which got its 3 stacks of weaken removed

[eternal prism]

Ah

[frozen geyser]

But Shaggy still kills just as early with everything else

[eternal prism]

yeah that is crazy

[frozen geyser]

Honestly, the only extreme kill options Shaggy has come from either rage or weaken stacks

Like I definitely think rage should have it’s power reduced a bit and given a longer charge time

[eternal prism]

That’s funny cause they nerfed it’s KB last patch and decided to compensate by giving it +1 dmg

That apparently equals more kill potential

To them

[frozen geyser]

We don’t need every rage move to deal 25 before factoring in perks

[eternal prism]

Yeah also I feel rage kick is too fast imo. Like I can’t even react or jump over it so I hope the speed of that becomes the same as normal kick. That’s probably my only main complaint with him rn

[frozen geyser]

I mean, if you make it too much slower, it becomes too easy to parry on reaction

Granted, only better players will do that

But like people wouldn’t be complaining about rage kick if it didn’t kill at like 80

[eternal prism]

Well normal kick can still hit people.

[frozen geyser]

Less if you’re Arya or T&J

[eternal prism]

Like if they’re in disadvantage or to punish a read.

[frozen geyser]

Normal kick is really punishable tho

[eternal prism]

It depends on when you use it imo

[frozen geyser]

Like every Shaggy kick spammer is just not good at the game and it’s really easy to deal with in 1v1

They added an extra 4 frames of whiff back in the start of season 3

So it’s even more punishable than it was previously

Personally, I only use kick to punish dodge options at the end of a combo

But I can get punished if the opponent just jumps

[eternal prism]

I mean that only says so much. Also making it slower can make you consider other rage options like down special, up special, etc

[frozen geyser]

But no one has caught on yet

[frozen geyser]

Rage up and down special are only usable if you confirm into them

[eternal prism]

I feel like when I play him the kick is so fast, unreactable and unpunishable to the point where most other options aren’t as good or more situational

[frozen geyser]

Rage kick sure

Not normal kick

[eternal prism]

Yeah I meant rage kick lol

My bad

[frozen geyser]

But like giving Shaggy a longer ranged unreactable burst option when powered up wouldn’t be an issue if it didn’t kill so early

Dash attack is another longer ranged unreactable burst option

But it doesn’t kill until like minimum 100 at ledge

So no one complains

[eternal prism]

Yeah that move is very punishable too

[frozen geyser]

It’s like 3x as fast startup wise and travels maybe 1.5x as fast as rage kick, so yeah it should be punishable

[eternal prism]

But idk maybe everyone else in the cast has an easier time beating it. But I won’t know cause I only play like lebron and sometimes TJ.

[frozen geyser]

I mean, as Lebron if you throw a basketball and Shaggy hits it with rage kick, there’s a noticeable hitpause and you can react to rage kick

[eternal prism]

kind of. sometimes I’m still in endlag after throwing ball

[frozen geyser]

But personally I don’t play Lebron, so idk what options he has to counter Shaggy besides setting up with ball

[eternal prism]

I mean lebrons neutral tools with no ball are slow and can’t punish shaggy kick. Sometimes lebron with ball can but he ain’t getting much dmg off.

[frozen geyser]

When Shaggy has rage, you’re probably best to just run away for 7 seconds and then be ready to dodge the inevitable panic kick

Some characters can do it really easily like Bugs with tunnel

[eternal prism]

Yeah maybe I just camp wall for a bit

[frozen geyser]

Lebron just kinda has to run away

[frozen geyser]

That’s another option

I do that against IG rage

It’s not worth getting hit by but green ball and then dying at zero

[eternal prism]

I mean with new air down special I wonder if they can just fall and grab me into blast zone lol

Cancel it and confirm into dair

[frozen geyser]

Shaggy has an upwards momentum boost when starting air down special

You can react like like with Superman up special

But I’m totally gonna abuse funny suicide kills with air down special if I can

[eternal prism]

yeah but if you aren’t on wall and actively recovering towards it then it can be a cool tool for that

or the enemy is recovering I mean

[frozen geyser]

I think the air down special probably shouldn’t be able to be cancelled if you grab them

[eternal prism]

I agree

[frozen geyser]

Like it took Jenette 2 seconds to find a loop

And that way, if you do go for a suicide stock trade, you have to trade no matter what

No cheeky “no u” reversal scenario where Shaggy just grabs you and then gets to dodge cancel dair to reversal

[eternal prism]

Yeah that would be super trolly lmao

can you grab multiple people or just 1?

[frozen geyser]

Probably just one

Like Jason’s air neutral special grab

[eternal prism]

probably.

[frozen geyser]

But I don’t have internet access on my PC because my network adapter is broken, so I can’t test anything

New one ships this weekend

[eternal prism]

Ok I mean I might test that later just to see

cause if so I think I’m playing shaggy for a bit

[frozen geyser]

They should just do what Smash does and make it so Shaggy dies first for suicides

[eternal prism]

Or even in general

[eternal prism]

Yeah I think he dies first already.

Cause I’m the clip he is below the person being grabbed

[dusty walrus]

Finally Shaggy has reached mid tier status

[unkempt adder]

is there an invite sumwhere?

[merry kiln]

dm me if you want the invite, I didn't make the server but the owner gave it to me

[upper nexus]

oh my god dothemario i didnt expect to find you here 😭

i havent touched flash party in like 6 months

[dusty walrus]

Yo is that the Swifty???

[dusty walrus]

I don’t blame you tbh

But a new character is coming in December, so that’s cool

Ngl I don’t really be playing MVS these days

Been on the Rivals 2 demo recently

[upper nexus]

yessir

[upper nexus]

i’ve been wanting to play this how do i get it

[past rock]