Batman

[tepid mulch]

Happy to help!

Your welcome

[urban wraith]

I got timed out but I think it is if you’re fast enough. I’m not the best at hitting it in that time frame rn but working on it. I can lyk as I get better

[lyric rain]

No

In no realm is that a true combo

[opal ridge]

What are the true combos we have now?

[south chasm]

Im good with batman now

Wish i could send clips lol

[tepid grail]

Need more people to practice Batman with

[sturdy fossil]

does batman still get jab -> batarang?

[urban apex]

yeah but it's not true

it works as a mixup

[green bay]

I have doubt about that claim, I often do batarang after jab 2 and that's either true or for some ungodly reason my opponents never attempt to dodge, which is unlikely lol

[urban apex]

you can dodge out of jab 2, but plenty of people don't

if they spot dodge the batarang will come back so it's not a problem but if they dodge out they will completely avoid it

[green bay]

I have to test that in training mode cause I'll not be able to believe it otherwise

It feels very true to me but could be wrong

[urban apex]

I've had plenty of people dodge out of it

either i'm incredibly slow or it's not true

[green bay]

That's also the reason I dislike the lack of Rankeds, you rarely play against player that will make your learn stuff...

[urban apex]

I'm thankful we can't play ranked in this state

iron giant is an easy win

due to his infinites

[green bay]

I would only be mad against Iron Giant

All the other MU I'm fine with them

[urban apex]

im not fine with harley

[green bay]

Tough MU

But I enjoy it

kinda lol

[urban apex]

and bugs for his up air

[green bay]

I mean sure, some character need to be tuned, but compared to beta the current state of the game is ok-ish

[urban apex]

well at least in beta bugs up air was nerfed

right now it kills at 100

huge hitbox

and it works too well with his down air

and neutral air i guess

[green bay]

Yea but his upair is one of these move I suspect will be less of an issue when we'll be comfortable with the parry mechanic

This is my main training axis right now

[urban apex]

oh yeah

but even if you parried you'd just be able to down air him and he's still below you

[green bay]

You have time to fastfall below and upair/upb

thanks to the long ass pause

[urban apex]

how long is it

[green bay]

don't have the exact framedata but I know for sure you can, when I hit them they're still frozen

you upair while starting your fastfall

[urban apex]

yeah yeah

[green bay]

I'm always at the right height when doing so

[urban apex]

i like the new upair

[green bay]

me too

I wishhhhh we could upair 2 manually on whiff to have better coverage

but eh, it's fine

[urban apex]

down air on batman used to be way stronger right?

I remember hitting opponents on top of you

killing them at 40 off stage

[green bay]

Yes, spike down air were overall broken during beta

for all char

that was kinda stupid, I didn't liked that

[urban apex]

can opponents see you charging a move inside the smoke?

[green bay]

I'm also wondering that

not sure

sometime it feels like they see me

I hope they already plan to rework perks, cause none of Batman signature perks are good

I play with the +5% atk/def

[urban apex]

i've always assumed they see me charging it and they're just eager to get hit

they always walk on my charged ground up

[green bay]

I assume they don't see us no, that would just make sense

[urban apex]

oh ofc

[green bay]

its juste sometimes they act weird lol

[urban apex]

perks are so boring now

[green bay]

yeaa

I get why it was simplified, it's not a bad thing tbh

it was a bit too cluttered, but we lost so much freedom of build

Good signature, game changing perk would probably make up for it

but a lot of character have crappy signature perks

[urban apex]

i dont even know what new ones do

like pugilist

how much more damage

or the armor breaking one

how long can they not use armor for

[green bay]

I wish we had more details yes

[median mango]

WHO HAS THE COOLEST GADGETS

[green bay]

I hope y'all never get to face a Steven

The character is not only busted, but the Batman/Steven MU is the worst thing in existence

I'm picking Iron Giant 10 times over a Steven lol

[shadow thicket]

bro I almost broke my whole ps5 they queued me up with 3 harleys 4 wonderwomans and freaking 20 gizmos

[green bay]

I find the Harley MU doable. Annoying especially since she lowprofile like crazy (including our JAB 😢 ). WW if I play extremely patiently is manageable but a very boring MU.
But Guizmo/Iron Giant/Steven are broken in a litteral way, decent players can achieve way too much for little effort with them.

Like the perk that can send back projectiles on parry doesn't even work on Guizmo's arrows, there is just no solutions 😭

[shadow thicket]

"yes sensei touflou" we all say in unison

[green bay]

https://tenor.com/view/har-har-guru-guru-kaypacha-meditate-concentrate-gif-16428084

(no embed gif boooooou)

[raven urchin]

is it just me or does batman feel meh?

[dusty falcon]

I beat him easily

[tepid mulch]

Can she beat goku though

[urban wraith]

What perks do you recommend I use for Batman? I’ve been running flammable, speed force, and pugilist and I’ve been enjoying that a lot but want to see if you all recommend something different or better you’ve been enjoying

[tepid mulch]

If you're good at using batarang I'd use Bouncerang tbh

[woeful viper]

Ya @urban wraith I'm running what you are plus Bouncearang for 1s.

[urban wraith]

I’m decent with it. Been enjoying the 5% more cause bouncearang doesn’t apply 1 stack of weakened on hit anymore and only when it’s going backwards

Might try it again tho

[lyric rain]

I previously slandered Batman in this channel

I’m very sorry

His dodge cancels are removed but a lot of his dodge tech still remains he’s still a very good character

[drowsy parcel]

Batman is so broken

[tepid mulch]

i suck against this character smh

[lyric rain]

I wouldn’t say that. More like A tier

He can die super early and has plenty of bad MuS

[obsidian dragon]

whatre batmans perks

[green bay]

Yea about the signature perk I started using the default +5%. The grapple one could just not exist at this point (at least in 1v1, I can see it works in 2v2 especially if you play alongside a character that go in like Superman since you can instantly grapple to him), and Bouncerang is cool on paper but I don't see a world where it's more efficient than just having a permanent +5% damages (and defence !)

[warped echo]

how do you get gotham guardian batman for free

[hollow furnace]

I faced a Batman player that was super fast I mean he always hit me way before I could ever hit them.

My dodge was even too slow for it.

[true edge]

I use the grapple one cuz it looks cool but 5% definitely better fr

Just fought a Superman😭

It was soo close

But I lost😔

[green bay]

I totally get it, people don't necessarily play the meta characters because they want to play who they like, and the same concept apply to perks !

[hidden python]

Do you think batman is still top tier because i feel like he lacks a lot of tools other top tier have (infinites, tod, crazy kill potential, ...) ? Personnaly, after playing him and other characters for a while, i feel like he's mid tier

[split apex]

As someone who mains him I feel like he could be A or B

I personally think he is still managable to play with

[hidden python]

Idk his batarang isn't a menace anymore, perks have anti projectiles and even characters have anti projectile

he has a hard time to kill (at least from my experience, I played a lot on treehouse and dexter's lab recently and I had to bring the opponent to a 140 damages to kill)

[split apex]

I mean althought he might not be as serious as he was in beta I've still had a good time with him

But that is just me though

[hidden python]

His combo are not on par with ww shaggy or arya (no infinites or tod)

[hidden python]

Well from all the tier list i see, he's usually put in a tier

so you're not alone

[split apex]

Yeah

I guess

[hidden python]

but I didn't see him much in the 1v1 tournament and even in matchmaking

despite being one of the most popular character

Maybe i'm trash

but I remember most of the combos

[split apex]

Nah you're not trash

[hidden python]

they don't bring me much

[split apex]

Just always practice and improvement

That is key in my opinion

[hidden python]

Yeah idk about that

[split apex]

Learning a character takes time

[hidden python]

Well yeah but that's frustrating when you have a joker who has and incredible up smash (low skill floor brings more than low skill bat) and arya who can just tod (high skill floor but brings more than high skill batman)

But what are his strenghts because i try to abuse his speed and batarang but it's not enough

[split apex]

I mean he has strong punches and kicks

[hidden python]

Do you also play snowball because 7% isn't much idk why people are recommanding it

[split apex]

I don't play snowball

[hidden python]

107 instead a 100 is quite bad imo

[split apex]

I don't even know what that os

*is

[hidden python]

so you play flamable doc ?

[split apex]

I am still trying to figure out the perks a bit also

[hidden python]

also do you know how much pugilist buff you ?

[split apex]

Don't knoq

*know

[hidden python]

thx

Always a pleasure to talk with ya

[split apex]

No problem

[indigo egret]

Yeah, his ground combo game is pretty good but in 2s it doesn’t mean much, since their teammate with just get them out. I just feel like with the slower speeds and limited options for Ariel combos he’s a little weak in 2s

[green bay]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd7YdFUYbJw a quick video exploring some combo routes at low %

Wanted to do a more in-depth video but I f*cked up the recordings and a lot of the footages are not usable. Might redo it later

[hidden python]

Even in ones I have problems. I even got beat by a garnet who just killed me at 40% with combo jab + one aerial while i struggled to kill her at 140%

his up b in the air has 0 projection

while the one on the ground has projection but it's on the ground so it asks more projection

I just meet bugs joker or black adam all the time

also banana guard

these are for me the real top tier

the ones the sweats abuse

Idk maybe i don't have yet what it takes for this character but I feel like even in high levels he isn't played much and doesn't seem as strong as others.

[prime birch]

Skill issue

[hidden python]

Might be true

Maybe his game play doesn't suit me anymore, I relied a lot before on stacking weakened with his batarang to kill quicly ennemies but now that his batarang doesn't stack weakened unless it lands on his returns he plays a lot differently

[drowsy parcel]

Bro typing essays over multiveruz

[hidden python]

I try to discuss on discussion tchat

you'd like me to resume it in 140 character like we were on twitter

[prime birch]

That’s always how batarang worked

[hidden python]

Nah before it stacked when it hit directly too. 1 stack but 1 stack still, it refreshed the stacks too.

Now I won't expand on it for too long. He's probably still usable it's just that I feel since the release he has fallen a lot behind his past glory.

[green bay]

I mean, he's healthy now. Sure he was better before, but most importantly he was super obnoxious to face.

But he's still really strong, if we remove the "infinite combos" parameter cause these will 100% be removed, he's still among the best character in the game imo

[indigo egret]

I think this is true in certain situations against certain characters.

The one thing I think he lacks that other charters have is an effective “kill move” you know, something that kills at high prevent more no or less regardless of where the enemy is on stage.

Think Shaggy side special, WW side special, Superman grounded Up attack, ect. Batman’s up special often won’t kill even at higher prevents unless you can charge it. You usually have to follow up to take a stock.

Which is Sometimes it’s a skill issue. But sometimes, even after you’ve been combing like crazy you’ll die to a move that takes less commitment/covers more ground so he doesn’t feel well powerful.

[raven urchin]

yeah that's my current feeling regarding batman... he was part of the roster that actually got balanced meanwhile others like buggs, ww, harley can just spam attacks similar to beta and beat out everything you do for free with better and more active hitboxes + have more knockback on all moves lmao it's weird

[raven urchin]

yeah you can track enemies on batman super well and hit them high up in the blast zone area and they still wont die (i'm talking literally 120 hp it's dumb). meanwhile the other gross characters from the cast can up air/special you on the ground and you die at like 60 lol

it's really weird how you can put in 10x more effort (and get tons of good confirms and combos) and someone else presses 1 button and you just lose. this is an issue i'm noticing with more than just batman. and it's all against buggs ww harley

[shadow thicket]

real

[green bay]

Some characters are efficient quicker, some need more works. But to me this is not an excuse to justify one being weaker than the other, if a player chose the hard way it's his choice (not saying Batman is THAT hard but he does require knowing our karate to make it works). Nothing is stopping us from playing WW, Steven, Guizmo etc...

The top tier characters (considered top tier at least) are clearly overtuned, they are the ones needing a nerf more than Batman requiring a buff.

If they were aligned on the rest of the cast and not playing a different game, I truly think Batman (in its current state) would be top tier in that setting

I don't know, couldn't be too sure about that. But he's not bad guys, but I agree he's underdeveloped and he does have bad MU

I do wish he had more interesting perks. Signature perks should open new gameplay possibilities for everyone. For Batman it opens nothing and are just trash 😢

[drowsy parcel]

Happy pride month btw 🌈

[shadow thicket]

it must be opposite day for bro

[shadow thicket]

maybe i should stop using the grapple perk🤔

[tardy gyro]

how do you do instant air dodge?

Is it like a certain controller setup or

[green bay]

You're maybe gonna be the one opening my eyes about it ||never happened since beta 👀 ||

[green bay]

If I press dodge my character dodge instantly. I don't know what is your issue

[tardy gyro]

no like

theres new tech

called instant air dodge

where u can do

[green bay]

And this is the crazy part, this perk exist since beta, it's trash since beta, and even after perks rework they KEPT it that way

[tardy gyro]

batmans side air instantly on the ground

or whatever its called idk fighting game terminology

[green bay]

like PLEASe give us something interesting, we're talking about Batman you can definitely do interesting stuff with his perks 😭

[green bay]

Oh, just airdodge diagonally

from the ground

He's still gonna roll but if you cancel with an attack he's gonna do an aerial, not a tilt

[drowsy parcel]

??

@shadow thicket congrats!

[mossy quartz]

batman is busted

[green bay]

⏯️ https://streamable.com/a4xf42

Might start to really consider playing with airwalker, this perk is too sick 😳

But it removes our ability to parry in the air tho, which is... not good

[shadow thicket]

goddamn

[ripe ridge]

Player First Games should add an unlockable Owlman costume for Batman with James Woods repriseing his role.

[granite kiln]

Samurai skin... so fire... $20... must feed big corporation money... samurai skin...

[loud sky]

batman is good the other characters are broken thats the thing. So your kinda right

i been usin batman in tourney

anytime i lose with him i feel like im losing more to the character than the skill of the opponent

i can beat WW decently even though its a losing matchup but GOD banana guard matchup for batman is cancer

[raven urchin]

I feel like Joker is the better Batman... thoughts, anyone?

[granite kiln]

Not really
He's not as oppressive as beta Batman was but he's definitely stronger than Batman now

They're very different though

Batman seems to rely heavily on his batarang in neutral but Joker would be fine without the cards, they're just very beneficial

Batman can kill with jab for whatever reason but Jokers jab cant do allat as early

[clever pollen]

We definitely need an Adam West skin

[granite kiln]

Batmans up b is much quicker, his sair is a better approach than Jokers, his down b isn't as much of a combo tool as Jokers either

Batman and Joker have pretty different playstyles

[loud sky]

yeah but joker sair is great keep away and batman sair doesnt trade really well with anything

has anyone had problem against banana guard. I played against FPZ banana guard in tourney and felt like batman was so useless

[clever pollen]

Ive been having trouble against him with any character aside from WW (because of the armor)

[eternal ledge]

You're super dependant on your batatrang. Use it to open him up. Other than that it's tough matchup. A lot of his disjointed attacks out trade batman's

[green bay]

Yea I feel you, the sad thing is that most of the overtune characters are also among the easy ones to play, so players pick them a lot and it's starting to be kinda obnoxious

Thank God they at least get rid of Iron Giant

Banana Guard was not that much of an issue for me so far, I encountered one who beat the hell out of me but he was really good as a player, clearly better than me

But Steven. Damn boy Steven, he has to be one of the worst MU we could possibily have. Everything in his toolkit is designed to say "f*ck the Bat"

[quaint sphinx]

Why is his batarang so hard to get back unless it's on the ground and even then i can't pick it up sometimes

[brazen dome]

Yeah it's kinda annoying at times.

[calm stag]

wich perk set do yall use?

[loud sky]

I’ve beat top Steven’s but the banana guard I played is a Combo breaker finalist so he definitely is a pro. I’m disturbed at the fact that he’s even picking up such a character. Once u get off stage and try to use baterang to recover ur done. Ur not trading with any banana guard move of the edge. U can’t even land jab cause banana guard hits behind

[loud sky]

Use armor break dash attack and try to space out ur slides. It’s a losing matchup but sometimes I still get the win

[loud sky]

Snowball, armor break dash attack, pugilist

If I’m fighting ww,bugs,Steven, or any other armor character

I say bugs too because if u have armor break on. Dash attack one shots safe and u can fight through it

[calm stag]

he probably likes to try the new characters, I think Banana guard is beatable if you're good at timing when to dodge because his attacks tend to take a while (I haven't played against him that much so idk if this advice is even correct)

[loud sky]

Bro it was a tourney and he was definently polished on the character

Yeah I haven’t had much matchup practice

But the fact that I can lose to a trash banana guard when playing bMan shows how stupid the character is

[calm stag]

why snowbal and not the fire perk? if you're grapple lands you're going to get some guaranteed extra damage

[loud sky]

Bro fire perk barely works

That shi hasn’t triggered once

Snowball guaranteed

Most of the time I’m doing most damage anyways

[calm stag]

fr? works perfectly fine when I'm playing Lebron even played against a batman that used it (and it worked)

[green bay]

I do use armor break perk, I had the opportunity to train the MU. But it's still very rough, Banana Guard imo is way more doable if you have the MU in your fingers

[loud sky]

I’ve mastered the ww matchup with armor break

[green bay]

Fire perk definitely work for me, had no issue with it but we clearly don't get enough opportunities to trigger it for it to be better than just a flat +7% damages

[loud sky]

Unless I run into key or sandstorm a ww has yet to beat me in tourney matches

I hope I run into them tho

[calm stag]

I think a succesfull grapple hit triggers it instantly

[green bay]

It does

Still bad

[calm stag]

:(

[green bay]

I'm thanksful to encounter WW against whom I'm just better as a player lol

If she decide to play patiently and not impale herself on me, just spacing her pokes and sh*t Im done for

There is one thing I HATE about Batman is that there is a cooldown for applying weaken stack

[loud sky]

How??

[green bay]

Not only do they not last for that long, but after applying a stack you can't apply another one for like 1/1.5s

which absolutely suck

[loud sky]

I have never had a problem getting stacks so idk

[green bay]

Test it

[loud sky]

U would have to show me a scenario where that effects u

How fast are u chaining moves

Cause I get 5 stacks in game

[green bay]

If you juggle someone twice with utilt for example, doesn't works. If you're in your smoke and does a jab combo, only apply one stack

You can get 5 stacks

[loud sky]

I swear it does

Yeah smoke weird

I figured it out

[green bay]

but you can't apply more than 1 instance of stack every 1s or so

smoke or no

[loud sky]

When ur in smoke the only moves that do weaken are the moves that already do weaken. I think it doubles the stacks

So when I slide in smoke I do more weaken

Like 2 stack

That happen a couple times

Test it I’m not on rn

[green bay]

Nope every attack apply a stack

2 stacks*

[loud sky]

It’s not consistent then

Smoke feel useless now

My jab never worked in smoke

Maybe once

Also projectile dodge in smoke is cap

That rarely works too

[green bay]

Can't remember having an issue about that

Heavy projectile won't be dodge I'm prettu sure

But for the rest I feel like it always works

Jab combo will apply weaken in the smoke... but one time (so 2 stacks)

Because of the cooldown lol

[loud sky]

Mmm..

[green bay]

even jab 1 jab 2 into dtilt will apply only 2 stacks

I hate that

[loud sky]

Does slide do 3 stacks

[green bay]

1, 2 in smoke

oh slide

not dtilt

[loud sky]

If u got matches clipped against banana guard please send

[green bay]

well slide will also apply 2 anyway

in smoke

[loud sky]

Got it

[green bay]

I happen to play Banana Guard as a secondary. I don't know if I'm dumb- sorry, good enough with it to help you decently in the MU but yea

[loud sky]

Sure I would love to run it later

[green bay]

I'm trying to incorporate airwalker perk in my gameplay

It has way too much potential

https://streamable.com/a4xf42

[granite kiln]

Projectiles are the only way to hit him before he hits you

[indigo egret]

Yeah, if your playing against any character with disjoints, you either have to use projectiles or whiff punish. Even if you attack first that spear is gonna out ranch you 9/10 times.

[granite kiln]

You cant whiff punish BG is the thing

He has no whiff

[indigo egret]

True enough, BG can throw out Side special all day without much of a window to punish. Maybe if they gave bats some of his speed back it would feel more balanced :/

[granite kiln]

Or they could just give BG more whiff

I think Batman is fine the way he is

He's not super oppressive like before but he's not bad

He's just solid

[loud sky]

Exactly ive seen banana guard cancel out of whiffed moves he’s to crazy to punish

[loud sky]

OMG

[green bay]

Told youuuuu

||only 2 people watched it, the link aint that scary I swearrrrr 😭 ||

I wish we could upload video directly on here. We can't even embed video nor gifs, nothing

Not easy to share stuff :/

[loud sky]

The only reason I don’t use airwalk is because he needs that armor break perk for to many matchups

This is good for the Harley matchup tho

[green bay]

I'm still figuring out how necessary this perk is against armor heavy matchups. It's definitely useful but it's overlapping dtilt a bit (even tho it's probably like a couple frames slower than dash attack), and I feel like with the armor crush OR armor killer perk alone it's already achieving enough in those MU

But the main reason its hard playin with airwalker is that it's denying us entirely the ability to parry in the air

[urban wraith]

This genuinely could change everything for Batman. I will strictly be using this perk now

[green bay]

It's huge

[urban wraith]

Dude fr

Time to grind and find some new combos

[green bay]

Yea Batman has huge combo potential. People are sadding over beta Batman but they sleeppppppp on this current version of the character

[urban wraith]

Yea I loved how he was in beta but some nerfs to him are fine. I think his biggest issue rn is that the characters above him are just miles ahead of him if that makes sense

So it makes it tough at times

[green bay]

But I do feel like because the character lack big hitboxes, he's way more susceptible to DI and following it to continue his combos

[urban wraith]

Yea most definitely. If you can get a good string in he’s nasty but it really depends on if you can get that first hit

[green bay]

Yea current top tier are top tier cause they are way overtuned, they play another game lol

[urban wraith]

Exactly

[green bay]

I don't like how PFG are silent about their plans. Doesn't mean it's a bad sign or anything but

I don't like it 😬

Imagine when the 1st update drop if its only UI fixes and that's it lol. I would be mad

I lowkey start liking the game less and less. Like ok I get it PFG, I have to play twice as good as my opponent to achieve an even game, now please tune what need to be tuned

I despise the current meta :/

Especially since it forces me to play in a super lame way, I would like to be able to express myself more against the current top tiers

Being forced to respect obnoxious framedata and hitboxes is... meh

[loud sky]

Bro people already complain 2 me about my Batman. If pfg tunes down characters properly and I hear people call Batman broken I might have to jus delete all social media

[wintry inlet]

https://youtu.be/1W8bQro_4mM?si=VVwmnT0eLO6q_byK

This was beta batman. He can't do anything like this any more 😭

[tribal glen]

Best perk setup?

[green bay]

Never said the opposite

Just saying people spend more time crying over old Batman than actually developping the character's meta

[wintry inlet]

I agree. Just crying over old Batman

He's still good

Considering the changes to the system and everything else

Just no where near as fun as before

[green bay]

It depends, I prefer this version of the game over the old one, by a fair margin. As a way to go but the foundations are good to me

But like I said a few days ago, I don't really care about combo potential, it's not why I play platform fighters, it's not even the reason I play fighting games in general

So I take deepest neutral game over flashy combo any days

[wintry inlet]

That's fair. Each to their own. It's the speed that gets me. They could have nerfed combo potential and dodges. But the speed of beta was great

[green bay]

They will make some changes, we know that already. They're maybe inclined to give back some of the lost mobility

But I feel you

I feel like a large part of the platform fighting community value speed of gameplay a lot

[granite kiln]

Crazy how the second Batman stopped being the meta everyone dropped him

[fiery bobcat]

https://streamable.com/fyy4v3

is this useful yall?

(jab12>batarang>bombpull>dodge forward and apply bomb>imagination)

bot was set to ''dodge away after hitstun'', and idk how DI influences it but yeah

seems like a guaranteed way to apply bomb without pulling it first, no?
are there other ways he can do this?

[green bay]

I don't see any realm where it's true, but it's still a cool idea ! You should have some kind of mixup afterward like if they dodge away you can grapple, or dodge cancel dtilt etc..

[fiery bobcat]

does the bot not dodge right in practice mode?

[green bay]

It's absolutely not reliable unfortunately, especially when he stays near the ground

Never seen a training mode that bad AND unreliable in my life

The bot has its own will when it comes to dodging or not

[fiery bobcat]

rippp

[indigo egret]

I don’t think this is necessary an issue tbh.

I’d rather them add to Batman’s kit to bring him up up to too tier, rather then nerf everyone to even it out.

[tardy gyro]

ikkkkk

makes me sad man

every time I see a beta batman combo

its lightning quick

hes still goodish currently but its just not the same

[versed spoke]

I recently fought one of you guys with the Animated Series skin, and now I feel bad from seeing the "KICK ME" sign taped to the cape upon TAS Batman's defeat. 🥲

[median mango]

how DARE you...

[green bay]

I remember when League of Legends started this trend of "keeping the strongs as they are, buffing the weaks", and every competitive games in every genre (including fighting games) started doing the same because it felt like a natural good idea to keep a game balance and please the playerbase of top tier characters.
As a result, a ton of games including LoL created the most obnoxious characters/meta we could possibly imagine, certain games just died because of that. I hated that trend from the bottom of my heart.
No, only buffing low tier characters up to top tiers standards doesn't magically works everytime. Often time, you need to tune down stuffs if you want to preserve a healthy meta.

And I guess it's a matter of opinions maybe (?), but I definitely feels like that current top tier are overtuned and need some kind of nerfs. Doesn't mean others characters don't need changes, but if the whole cast start doing what current top tiers does boy am I out of this game.

[urban apex]

How long does armor killer last?

[green bay]

5s

[urban apex]

good enough

[green bay]

@urban apex It's from the top of my head from different stuffs I tested, was maybe more like 4-5s.

But 5s is a maximum for sure

It also doesn't works with batarang sadly

[woeful viper]

How do you approach Banana? I’m having a lot of trouble with him 1v1.

[green bay]

Summary about Armor Killer and big con:

• Last for 4-5s Edit: 4s confirmed
• Doesn't works with Batarang
  - Doesn't works if you armor break (so you can't break the armor AND apply armor killer debuff, you have to chose lol)

The perk is lowkey not so interesting in the end

The issue with armor as a mechanic is that it cost 1 dodge bar to do but the cost is refunded if they hit you or even if they whiff but are hit through their armor

It's too cost efficient for what it is

[loud sky]

This worked for dragon ball fighterz now almost all of the cast is viable and u see a lot of character diversity

[loud sky]

deadahh might jus be impossible if they are a good banana guard

[green bay]

what do you mean they gutted a lot of characters lol

[woeful viper]

I was afraid of that. I can play footsie and get in sometimes or rely heavily on batarang + bomb, but none of my usual approaches work. :/

[green bay]

I mean gutted is a big word but they did nerfed some characters by a lot, but they also brought up some weak characters on par with the rest

Which is what should always be done !

[loud sky]

they only "gutted" lab coat 21

and the other 21

[green bay]

Imaginine, just imagine if Lab Coat 21 stayed the same when the character was so dumb everyone had to play with her to be competitive. The character was super toxic, everyone hated having to play her. Imagine if they decided to just brought everyone up to her level of toxicity lmao

[loud sky]

lab coat 21 still crazy

[green bay]

Android 16 was gutted
Cell was gutted
Vegeta SSJ was gutted
Kid Goku was gutted
Etc...

(in different seasons)

[loud sky]

😂😂

true

but do u see CELL NOW

[green bay]

Yea lol

[loud sky]

lol hes crazy

[green bay]

the comeback lord

He's the only one that has been revived from the dead 😂

[loud sky]

buffing the entire cast is never a good idea in a platform fighter tho so i agree with that

wonder woman without the 0-94 is still s tier

harley is only s tier cause of her loops

Joker is Joker

steven is weird because u cant stop steven from having loops no matter how much u nerf him, cause u made a character that can place sheilds to wallbounce from

gizmo needs to be gutted really bad

IG is either the best or worst character in the game

[green bay]

I think you're right. Steven shield's durability should be nerf

or reduce the amount of time we can bounce from it

My only grip with Joker is his jab, its crazy good especially considering he's supposed to be a zoner

Iron Giant to me is part of these archetypes that shouldn't be too good no matter what

Doesn't mean he has to be weak, but he shouldn't be more than average otherwise it will always be too toxic

Gizmo 💀

[median mango]

No batman changes

🤷

[clever pollen]

Thats fine tbh

[green bay]

The only thing Batman needed is top tier nerfs

[clever pollen]

At least BG got nerfed a little, thats all I wanted

[median mango]

True

[green bay]

Not a game changing patch, nothing should change tier wise

Current top tiers are still gonna play a different game

[indigo egret]

The only thing I want back is the second hit of fair on a miss. It was a goated way to close the gap in the beta

[boreal star]

@charred lance are you the Batman/Jason I’m dubbing with rn?

[green bay]

Yea that was a neat option. But I get why they removed it, make sense regarding the whole mobility nerf

But I do regret the manual uair2

The would help so much covering options from an opponent above us

A lot of the cast get to have craaaaaaazy upair with long *ss active frames and wide hitboxes, and we can't even do uair2 manually with its small "human hand" size hitbox 😂

[charred lance]

yep

[clever pollen]

Im finally getting the hang of Batman

Batarang is a great tool to extend your combos

Almost lvl 8 now. 85 wins or so

[indigo egret]

Try mixing batbomb in at higher percents. You can get some sweet kills with that!

[boreal star]

Sorry for the late reply but hell yea man you’re nastyyyyyy we should play again some time!

[split apex]

Awesome

[green bay]

Well, it seems like I made a curious find about that !

[charred lance]

sure dude

[green bay]

Ok I uploaded the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rbVSdYCm-s

So basically after the Batbomb explode, it automatically triggers upair2 and the dash attack followup if you are still in the endlag of uair1/dash attack ! As for sair 2 you can confirm it manually, again if you're still in sair1 endlag

Not really useful for the dash attack I think, but for uair/sair it's interesting cause you could theoretically cover an opponent trying to dodge the explosion while still having a followup if he fails

A followup with kill potential even, which is cool

[small pelican]

hey what are the best batman perks for 1s and 2s?

[green bay]

https://i.imgur.com/TeDJvRR.png You can replace Last stand with speed force if movespeed is more your thing

[small pelican]

is this for both 1s and 2s

[green bay]

This is for 1s and is a default option if you don't need anti-zoning/armor break perks

[small pelican]

so just swap last stand out with 2f2b against armored opponents?

[green bay]

That's pretty much it yes

[whole stag]

I love batman

[small pelican]

ok and what makes you use well rounded over bouncerang? just having a more static perk thats always on or do you think weakness is ass

[green bay]

We all do

[whole stag]

I think i finally made it…home🥺

[green bay]

unless your gameplay revolve around doing ninja sh*t with your batarang, it's way too niche when most use-cases for it involve aiming directly at your opponent

And even then I don't see it being more optimal than straight up +5% damages/defense at all times

[small pelican]

yea, plus i feel like even when i do get it behind them the better players just dodge it

its mainly the worse players i face that i always hit them in the back with it

[green bay]

⚠️ @ALL_BATMAN_PLAYERS ⚠️
I just did an instant dash attack out of dodge! I repeat, I did a dash attack out of dodge!
I don't know how I did it and can't replicate it. Please help me exploring this it's huge.

[green bay]

Yea not really reliable

[whole stag]

Well you see what happened was long ass pause YOUR BATMAN

[small pelican]

double flick your stick or double tap left/right dpad and do the dash attack

[green bay]

for what bloody reason am I only aware of this shortcut now ???????????

lmaooo

[small pelican]

i just found it out yesterday too

i was like wait i can just dash attack from being still

i dont gotta run around for a sec

[green bay]

That's crazy, it's game changer 😂

Crazy how it's mentionned nowhere in the game

[small pelican]

yup super annoying

do you think the perks you sent in that screenshot are good for 2s also ? if not what would you swap out

[green bay]

I don't really know. Does feels like there would be better perks especially depending on your duo

[tardy gyro]

Reduced hit pause nice

[green pelican]

Can we please get a New 52, Rebirth, and movie skins please 🙂

[lyric rain]

Is the weakened perk not worth it?

[lyric rain]

I love this

Tbh tho

I think they should add a dash attack and neutral dodge (parry) button to the game someday

[small pelican]

100%

id be so happy

[urban apex]

isnt bugs completely overtuned

too much force on his aerials

[clever pollen]

Always has been

[green bay]

Pretty confident it isn't when again, you have a permanent +5% damages/defense boost

I'm sad they decided to stick with these boring Batman perks. Hope some day its gonna be reworked

[lyric rain]

I kinda like weakened soley due to the fact it boosts knockback

inevitably doesn't matter how high a percent you are if you can't you know

die

I wish it would just go back to giving 5 stacks tho lol

[green bay]

As a status effect it's really good yes, I understood your question as if you were talking about the Batarang perk

[lyric rain]

Yeah I was

A good way of maintaining 5-4 stacks is via that perk

[green bay]

Against a good player I doubt it's gonna make much difference. But again, I don't revolve my gameplay around doing Naruto stuff with my Batarang, if that's more your thing the perk might do enough. A good player will most definitely dodge or stay out of the way, which is still a good thing cause you get to have a read on what defensive option they're gonna chose

But the perk doesn't add anything to this equation

[lyric rain]

I just use my rang for spacing

It basically forces my opponent into a lose lose situation

Either get hit by the rang or by me

Or both

Usually both

[green bay]

If you're that good with it that you can proc the effect often enough then I guess you're good to go with the Batarang perk !

And in the end, it's more about what you've fun playing with

Cause this perk, as boring as I think it is, is still less boring than +5% passive stats lol

[smoky radish]

Thinking I should drop Shaggy and pick up Batman... I was pretty clean with him last night.

#off-topic message

I wasn't pulling off any standard combos, but when I did find something that connected it was so rewarding

[loud sky]

https://clips.twitch.tv/CrackyHelplessEggplantGingerPower-7RCjxSjOYDERqn6_

DEATH STRING

batman all about strings

[loud sky]

rang perk still amazing if u have great baterang control i proc 5stacks all the time

its not even a rare thing that i get 4 stacks

[clever pollen]

Holy

[loud sky]

i do this 24/7 lol

[clever pollen]

Also, there is this batman move where he can zip through the air real fast. I always fatfinger it, and I never seem to replicate it when I want to

What is that move, and what is the precise input?

Is that Shadow Jab?

Ahhhhh thats it

Okay, I think that will up my combo game a bit more

[green bay]

sexy

[loud sky]

yeah u gotta land the first hit of side air and have some space from the ground or else the move wont come out

[loud sky]

preciate it

I got way more

also finn wasnt dying at 100 to an upercut if it wasnt for the weaken perk, yall were contemplatin over

[green bay]

yall shall stop acting like there is no nuances in my words 😭 . I'm not saying the perk is useless, the perk is fine and totally usable imo (in opposite to grapple perk lol, at least in 1s).
Again, I'm not seeing it being more optimal than +5% damages AND defense

[loud sky]

bro

if u cant get the perk active every fight u not using baterang correct

baterang always saves me out of getting comboed

u also use it to force decision making

[green bay]

Yep, talked about it earlier

[loud sky]

ur losing kill power for 5 percent dmg and defense

L trade ngl

[green bay]

+5% damages add to the kill power

[loud sky]

nah

[green bay]

Well you're denying maths then

[loud sky]

5 percent nothing

snowball is 7 percent

and i always out dmg

[green bay]

I would love to be proved wrong, I'm always looking to improve my game. But I spend hella time in training, that's the thing I love to do. And I personally don't see the perk doing more than the +5% one overall (at least against a high level player).
If I ever see in competitive games a Batman that happens to find a way to reliably hit with batarang's return, I would definitely change my mind. And I do think there is a possibility that setups exist that create a lose/lose situation reliably even against a player that knows the MU

[loud sky]

i play tournaments i land it still

and u say consitent

[green bay]

You can always land it

[loud sky]

u jus gotta know when to throw it out

and sometimes u avoid baterang and then get confrontational

so that it either saves u or adds to ur combo

also u can get 0 to death setups

like if u throw baterang behind them and then force 50/50 and shoot ur grapple. Then u get the grapple plus return baterang 3x weaken into upercut or batbomb death

[loud sky]

true everyone has different playstyles

[green bay]

This is a setup I actually do a lot ! And it definitely works a lot lol, but the players that will take batarang in this situation often times are players I don't care what perks I play with lmao

[loud sky]

but i do believe that u should work towards being comfortable with the perk cause 5 percent perks are for characters who legit get no beneft for their main perk

[green bay]

You should really not underestimate it. I know for a lot of people it's extremely misleading, seeing 5% and thinking "it's only 5% ?" But it makes a notable difference between being killed or not (especially with proper DI), and even between killing or not (especially since most of the time I'll kill with upb or dash attack, way less with a batarang return setup)

VoiD talked about it in a video on his channel

And yea, its true I have a very straightforward way to use my batarang and not going into fancy things, so that's definitely weigting in my opinion on it.

I either combo extend, forcing a defensive option with the return or sniping offstage

[loud sky]

thats the thing if u only use baterang straightforward there's almost no way ur ever winning the hard matchups. Batman in his current state has to work harder than a lot of the cast and playing his baterang linearly is geniunely a disadvantage. Batman unlike beta will never be a straight forward character hes a reaction/read character. what we are calling fancy will be bnb(bread n butter) once the game has settled.

if u played near the end of beta on his final nerf, it would of been easier to adapt

[green bay]

But I didn't said that because I think how I use it is not doing enough, it is doing enough I think. And yea I have a very patient way to play so I definitely lean into the bait and punish type of playstyle. Help handling tough MU too, even if its sometimes a bit boring lol

Maybe the way I worded my view of the batarang perk made it sounds like I think Batarang is weak lmao

This is not my opinion at all

Just feel like the way I use it is doing the job enough

[loud sky]

got you

[green bay]

On another topic, I'm testing some stuff with the grapple and I'm struggling to understand something

Like sometime, when you're flying toward the opponent, you're able to armor through moves, sometimes not with seemingly the same timing

If anyone knows something about that, send help

[loud sky]

what type of moves

[green bay]

nvm, that was a mistake on my part we don't armor through sh*t

was misleaded by whiffpunishing Supe neutral tilt right after the active frame

That make it looks like you're just armoring through the move, with the hitpause of you breaking his armor and all

[velvet quail]

Funny batbomb

[ripe granite]

Do I buy batman or Superman

[granite kiln]

Both

But I'd personally choose Batman if you buy his samurai skin

Because it's drippy fr

[ripe granite]

I got supes and he is fun as heck

[brisk pond]

any tips on punishing the slide kick and grapple attack?

[ripe granite]

Any ranged attack works from what I've seen

[brisk pond]

not really doable for my character 😔

on finn

[green bay]

slide is whiff punished like you would whiff punish every other move, no real subtility here. You just need to get used to the range of the move and space yourself appropriatly

[ripe granite]

BMO chop could work

[green bay]

If you get grappled the best punish is parry I think, but a classic dodge/spotdodge will do to get away. But there is a mindgame as Batman can jump cancel the grapple and punish your defensive option so yea

And if you play Finn you have a disjoint, which mean you should have no trouble whiff punishing the slide as long as you have the right spacing

[brisk pond]

it trades with his sword

so idk how real the disjoint is

[green bay]

Cause your spacing is wrong then

or timing

or both

[brisk pond]

i am most definitely sticking my sword into his foot

[green bay]

Then your timing is wrong, you trade because the move is still active

[brisk pond]

if it was disjointed that wouldn't be a problem

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[green bay]

Make sense, maybe slide hitbox is that good lol. All I know is that anyone can whiff punish it properly, disjoint or not

If you have the read you can jump over it, that way you should have 0 problem hitting Batman even if the move is still active

Actually I should have started with that, this is the default punish my opponents do if they read it

[brisk pond]

yeah that's what i try to do but it's kind of hard to react while you have the fear of just getting jabbed instead in your head

and then i traded with it trying to jab the slide so i was like hrmm

batman ended up with more + frames after that too so trading isn't favorable

i tried parrying grapple but i guess i just have to learn the timing better

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[green bay]

Parrying aint easy, window frame is pretty tight

[brisk pond]

if i'm not mistaken isn't slide an armor break? i could've sworn it had that purple looking effect but that could've just been the color of batmans suit or somn

[green bay]

its dtilt

not slide

unless the Batman had the armor break perk on dash attack

otherwise only armor break move is dtilt

[brisk pond]

gotcha think i was just misremembering then

[loud sky]

Finn can side special he can hit him out of it with his sword and can uptilt

[brisk pond]

I’ve found pretty much all of those to just trade or outright lose if you’re talking about the grapple

[loud sky]

I play against a finn all the time he punishes grapple often also it’s pretty easy to parry

[brisk pond]

yeah parry was my first instinct but i don’t have the timing down, i guess i could do some 2 controller labbing or some stuff to try stuffing it with other moves

[loud sky]

Shaggy players are the campiest losers ever this shi crazy

[urban apex]

fin's matchup would be easier if he didnt have an ability that lets him delete projectiles

[soft wagon]

I feel like I barely see batman players now compared to the beta. idk why tho I think he's pretty good

[urban apex]

he's fun but not as good as other characters

[loud sky]

U jus have to run into me lol

[coral girder]

does someone of you has the username ThimaTheOtta?

i just played tennis with him

[remote crescent]

is jab 1,2 batarang a true combo?

from my testing there is a dodge window

[green bay]

no

[remote crescent]

oof seems like jab 1 into batarang might be

wonder if there is a dash followup you can do

[green bay]

before or after what ?

[remote crescent]

after jab 1 batarang. dashing into another jab

[green bay]

Without dodging doubt it, but you can have sair 1 into sair 2, or dodge cancel into dair

Another curious find: the parry magnet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y09zkhatFOQ

What possibilities does that open 🤔
To note that it's possibly usable in the air while in disadvantage, as long as you still have a jump available

[loud sky]

Bro jab1,2 baterang is true. Am I dumb?

Sometimes if ur too far they can fall out

But that’s the same for all jab cancel combos on Batman

[remote crescent]

maybe its character dependent

[loud sky]

If u can’t land it on shaggy then ur doing something wrong

I have 1000clips using that string

[remote crescent]

im testing it right now. doesnt work on shaggy

[green bay]

I used to thought it was true because I always used it and it pretty much always worked.

But its not, a correct DI allow to dodge out of it

but yes, in practice it DOES works a lot of the time cause I guess people just doesn't DI or just except the thing to be true, dunno

[remote crescent]

seems like if you spot dodge asap it will just parry the batarang

[green bay]

So... I guess use the string if your opponent just take it ? lol

[loud sky]

Parrying baterang in punch range is stupid cause Batman still gets follow up lol

[green bay]

yea lol

[remote crescent]

theres a perk that will reflect projectiles. seems like a good counterplay

[green bay]

true true true

[remote crescent]

works on jason however

so maybe on some other big bodies as well

[loud sky]

Well if someone ever figures this out I will legit punish them so bad with a crazy string😂

If u purposely look forward to parrying baterang in a string u will legit start spot dodging for no reason

[remote crescent]

what are yall doing to kill?

[loud sky]

Dash attack up special

[remote crescent]

seems like recovery takes a pretty high percent to kill off the top

[loud sky]

Edge guard is how I get most my stocks

Quick

[remote crescent]

yeah jabs into up special is what ive been using. anything juicy you can do off the dash attack cancel?

[green bay]

dodging away is what people usually does if they try to dodge out of it

and since the batarang doesn't connect you don't get to cancel the endlag

so you can't really chase them unfortunately

[loud sky]

When jab baterang doesn’t conncect I usually just control my baterang and approach them from a weird angle to get another approach

[remote crescent]

the dodges in this game are really starting to put me off. seems like grounded dodges cover half the stage with almost instant recovery. makes it a pain fighting all the disjointed top tiers

[loud sky]

Wonder Woman isn’t even a problem to me. It’s legit just banana guard, gizmo, and Morty

I’ve tried every counter play possible

[remote crescent]

you do fine against harley?

[loud sky]

Yeah I’ve beat quite a few top Harley

But when I do lose it’s genuinely the shi map pool

The maps sell me

Sometimes I do get combined all 3 stocks let me not lie

[remote crescent]

her slide just completely low profiling jab is so infuriating

[loud sky]

😭

EXACTLY

OMG

HER SLIDE DODGING JAB

U can’t make this up

[remote crescent]

that character is the most braindead flowchart neutral in the game

hate fighting against it

[loud sky]

U actually have a brain

Harley has always been a flowchart character

I swear her approach even an Ai can replicate top Harley

[green bay]

THE reason I hate this MU so bad even tho it's not the worst lol

[remote crescent]

and id say more than 50% of my games are against harleys doing the same low risk/massive reward auto neutral

no thoughts. no decisions. just fishing for free combos

[loud sky]

I realized if the stage is too small I lose a lot

[green bay]

The coinflip queen

[loud sky]

But if I’m on flat sky arena

I’m the goat

Cause Batman need space

[remote crescent]

i played bat a good bit in the beta and he just seems kinda weak compared to the top tiers in this version

[loud sky]

Too much stage control on a small stage is cancer

That’s why Morty and gizmo are annoying

[remote crescent]

anything he does another character just does better

[green bay]

The overall mobility nerf hurt Batman the most I think

[loud sky]

Imo gizmo should get gutted and never be good. Morty having loops and being able to combo side special into itself and into up air is insane

[loud sky]

Batman still got crazy movement

Most the matchups I lose is not even movement. It’s just what I’m going against

[green bay]

Yes, but he got the most impacted by that. Like WW wouldn't care lol

[loud sky]

I can’t name u a matchup that extra movement would help me win

Maybe giving him side air 2 again at free will. Might let me out neutral a gizmo or Morty but overall I’m still gonna get cooked😂

[green bay]

Yea he's definitely not in his shiniest state but I still love the character too much lol

[remote crescent]

maybe we'll get a big shakeup come the first real balance patch. i think all characters should be around batmans power. he feels really fair tbh

but thats not good enough right now

[green bay]

Could be a me thing, as I said yesterday I'm a big "fundies" type of player and the more mobile I am the better it is

[loud sky]

I don’t see joker getting touched but he really is a problem

[remote crescent]

joker will for sure be adjusted

[green bay]

I'm just addicted to whiff punishes lol

[remote crescent]

if anything his air side special

such a cheap move

[green bay]

His jab is crazy

[loud sky]

Bro joker jab is so oppressive

[green bay]

Like I care most about a jab nerf than a side special nerf I think

[loud sky]

He gets in for free

They literally camp edge of stage and fish for jab like losers

[remote crescent]

its like 90% of the gameplay right now. and dodges make it completely viable'

used to smash where you get blown up when someone calls out your dodge

[loud sky]

Bro PFG needs to LEARN not EVERY character DESERVES JAB LOOPS

limit it to shaggy and other brawl focused characters

[green bay]

Like I'll dash dance in and out of Joker zone, he will jab 1 and I'll try too dash attack and this mf will just dyson the f*ck out of my limb with jab 2

PLEASE

[loud sky]

I should not be getting jabbed looped by a character with a LOAD OF UTILITY

[remote crescent]

you got any gameplay somewhere i can study?

[loud sky]

Either that or u try to punish his whiff and he dashes out and just hits u and loops u

[loud sky]

Study joker? Or Batman

[remote crescent]

bat

[loud sky]

All I got are twitch clips

On my twitch

[remote crescent]

alright ill check it out

[loud sky]

Might upload YouTube

[green bay]

you don't have VOD enabled ?

[loud sky]

But I wanna play a tourney before YouTube

I do

But my clips are better

[green bay]

kk

[loud sky]

Just started

[remote crescent]

post in here if you join one so we can follow you

id love to see a batman tearing up the brackets

[green bay]

Might check your vods later to see what I can sharingan

I should record my games, I pull up some nasty sh*t sometimes. I wish there was ingame replays

[loud sky]

Deadahh

This game selling

The fact we out of beta and there’s no spectate is crazy

[green bay]

Yea, its not a good sign. Because they knew how they released the game, they clearly knew it was unfinished as f*ck. Which mean they were kinde forced to release it in that state cause i guess Warner just said "nah tony we can't slip money no maw its been 2 years" which mean with how fast the playerbase is dropping... its not a good sign for the future of the game...

[loud sky]

😂😂

I read that in a New York accent

https://clips.twitch.tv/CredulousOpenFiddleheadsAMPEnergy-S3Esua9ABg7OCNy-

https://clips.twitch.tv/ElegantEsteemedTardigradeOneHand-gxC_1W0Ti5QPpZdh

[green bay]

u get it lmao. But Im legit sad because if the game don't pull a comeback Warner at some point will want to cut the loss...

Not sad yet, but concerned

[remote crescent]

that down special to chase dodges is definitely something i havent been using

[loud sky]

I wanted to gatekeep dam

[remote crescent]

can you explain what you do to align it?

i see you dodge and then jump but can you break it down for me?

[loud sky]

I’m ngl it’s all reaction

Align what?

[remote crescent]

after dash attack up special you do something to get that crazy fast movement and get above them. is it just forward dodge into a jump?

[loud sky]

It’s a dodge jump

Movement tech

[wintry inlet]

You guys using slide > dair?

That shiz is true

[remote crescent]

didnt know about this. do we get anything confirmed off of dair?

[loud sky]

Maybe fastfall up air. I might lab and see if I can go into jab randomly from this route

[remote crescent]

if not maybe there are some airwalker shenanigans we could do

ill mess around and see what i can come up with

[dusk kernel]

Where's the Batcave?
Where can I find batcombos or battech to research and try at the lab?

[wintry inlet]

Dair uair works at low mid %

Uair immediately after dair

Dair > upper/Cape works

[loud sky]

This is the batcave. We be brainstorming in here😂🙏🏾

Does anyone else hate that u can rarely combo after batbomb and also the fact that sometimes batbomb takes away from the momentum of a upspecial causing it not to kill

[green bay]

sometimes the batbomb do be like that. I wish we could have some more control over it (maybe a perk to detonate it manually or something, with longer CD to compensate ? Replacing the atrocious grapple perk)

[dusk kernel]

The problem is that you're trying to kill them, Batman doesn't kill, try to kick them off a building instead. /s

Being a smidge more serious, I wish the explosion could be triggered by a specific attack, that way you could cash in the damage in a combo if you know it isn't going to kill.

[remote crescent]

theres gotta be some string that will naturally time itself for the bomb to combo with the first hit placing the bomb

[wintry inlet]

I've seen a couple clips of batbomb combos that end with smoke just before detonation that kill from 0%

Dunno how practical they are vs a human opponent

Di is pretty strong in this game. And hitstun is dodgy as well

I've got some early kills with batbomb detonating after Cape at mid %. I don't know if they increased the kb since beta, but I don't remember getting kills this early with batbomb

[green bay]

You're talking about the video I posted a couple days ago, with the airwalker perk ? If so I can confirm it's totally not practical and was heavily denied by a DI away lol

[wintry inlet]

Haha yeah that's one of them

[green bay]

I wanted to believe it was somewhat realistic but nah

[wintry inlet]

Most consistent combo I've found is slide > dair > uair

Slide is so damn good

[green bay]

I didn't knew the grapple hit was susceptible to DI that much

but it is

[wintry inlet]

Yeah grapple is trash

[green bay]

yea I honestly think we have nothing better than that

that is guaranted at least

[wintry inlet]

They'll probably nerf it lol

[green bay]

I mean you can add batarang to the mix but it doesn't add much

[wintry inlet]

I hate these devs 😓

Not worth using rang to extend combos anymore

The cd is too long to waste it

For piddly damage

[green bay]

I have nightmare about PFG actually nerfing Batman man lmao

[wintry inlet]

They'll probably nerf slide

With armor break perk + range + speed + combos

It's cracked

[green bay]

totally yes

[wintry inlet]

And then we'll be left with nothing

[green bay]

I don't know, like slide is good but its nothing too toxic

[wintry inlet]

It is bro lol

[green bay]

I can't see them touching that

[wintry inlet]

It does everything

Whiff punish from 5 characters away

And armour break

[green bay]

But it's nothing comparing to what current top tiers have

[wintry inlet]

Can easily catch landings as well

Yeah let's hope

Most of my wins come from slide

Because the game is way more ground based now than in beta

And dodges are nerfed

Slide is actually pretty busted to cover ground options

[green bay]

I feel like the only reason we're forced to abuse slide is because it's our best option to stand a chance against these chunky hitboxes top tiers have lol

[green bay]

true true, and I like that about this version

I always liked more grounded gameplays

[wintry inlet]

That's true and sad

Batman really has no neutral besides rang slide and dair

I got hate mail from a ww player that I beat 3-0

Calling me a spammer

What else am I gonna do vs ww abusing armor if not slide slide slide

Everything else gets beat clean by ww

[green bay]

There is nothing quite like calling someone a spammer to scream "I have no fundamentaaaaaaaaals"

I mean man, if I'm doing the same thing on repeat and it works I'm not gonna stop lmao

make me

[wintry inlet]

That's what I said haha

But like.. coming from ww too hahaa

Broken character atm

[green bay]

oh and yea, that 💀

I would pay money to have the reasoning behind how WW was tuned

[wintry inlet]

Ikr lol

[green bay]

It's a bit hard to confirm because we don't really have any framedatas, but I feel like the main issue is there is not a LOT of disparities between each character's framedatas, like even WW get to have a pretty decent good framedata... but with big chunky, disjointed hitboxes AND armor

of course we're gonna struggle in neutral

Also armor shouldn't refund the dodge meter cost if they armor through something because that's the case right now (the same meter gain as if you're getting hit normally, which is almost 1 bar = the cost of doing armor moves)

[remote crescent]

seems like slide is really the only redeeming thing about batman at the moment. i dont see him getting nerfed

[granite kiln]

I see him getting nerfed

It's PFG balancing the game

They've already proven they can't develop a game to any extent

Trash devs

[wintry inlet]

I wouldn't put it past them tbh

They will nerf all the fun out of this game

Enjoy it while it lasts

[hidden python]

Personally I kinda have left Batman behind. I only use him in training mode to avoid getting too rusty. Even if Superman is only considered mid tier, I still have better results atm with him. Maybe he's more adapted to my skill level and my not so smart brain.

[remote crescent]

batmans recovery attack is so weak now. Ive had numerous instances of the opponent not dying at over 100 percent when i catch their air dodge. Seems like that move could use some love

[clever pollen]

I just beat a mirror batman in 1v1 who has 1k more wins with him than I did

I am on top of the world right now

[exotic grail]

I never noticed how the animated series skin has a "kick me" sign on his cape, lol

[loud sky]

Bro without weaken stacks sometimes it takes till 150 to kill😂

That’s why weaken so important

[remote crescent]

yeah just seems like he was intentionally gimped to work around the weakened mechanic. meanwhile bugs just erases you below 80

[remote crescent]

how do you build up stacks effectively? do you change combo routes and such to work them in?

[loud sky]

Slide, up air and up tilt strings

Dodge reads to hit them often

And then baterang perk. And work on your baterang control to approach so u usually have 3 stacks or more

Definently harder in certain matchups

[remote crescent]

any kind of setups you do with it? not something i utilize well. mostly to stuff problem attacks

its so bad compared to beta batarang

[loud sky]

Ngl my neutral barely relies on baterang

U have to be very good without baterang

Baterang is a bailout tool

U use to stop strings l, extend strings or sometimes approach in neutral

But if ur Batman is horrific while his baterang on cooldown

U might just play another character because he requires absurdly hard reads to get in without in a lot of matchups

[remote crescent]

yeah i dont really use it much in neutral. im trying to work on adding in more air down specials into my game plan bc i got cooked by a good batman whiff punishing me with it

does air dspecial, fair, jab link together? heard it works but i cant seem to get the fair and jab to link in training

[loud sky]

It’s not something u practice honestly. If u land down special go for side air. Depending on how the side air hits(usually if it hits super close) the jab links

U might have fought me honestly lol

Sometimes after down air special into side air, uppercut connects better. With Batman u jus need good decision making and initiative to tell when one would hit or the other

[remote crescent]

dair seems to be consistent after it

your ign is KuroZavi? if so it was someone else

also im not sure if its a bug with training mode or something but jab 1,2 batarang doesnt work when you set the bot to dodge away after hitstun but works against all other dodges 😕

[loud sky]

Yuh is kurozavi

[green bay]

It's because with that setting the bot not only dodge, it also DI in that same direction

and the string jab 2 > batarang is in fact denied by a DI away

[loud sky]

But only Batman mains know this so it will always land

The person in my top dog rank has no life

Bros gaining xp at a stupid rate

I think he’s hacking

He wasn’t even top 5 then in a couple hours he’s number 1

[remote crescent]

ah that makes sense. thanks

delete this before any other characters see the counterplay 😏

[loud sky]

Fax he tryna get us cooked

Ngl if people figure out that it’s not true pfg might give us a buff that might give us more combo routes(copium)

[wintry inlet]

They'll never buff batman

[loud sky]

I figured out why beta is better besides speed. In beta every character had combo routes and there was attack decay. In the current version everyone has infinites. The problem is adding attack decay would ruin the game because since everything is so slow the chance of u landing a different attack in neutral is at an all time low. Since they can’t and shouldn’t implement attack decay the game will continue to suck. Also if they did implement it most of the cast don’t have non repetition combo routes which makes u realize how sht this game design is.

If they took the beta form and tweaked it. We might be looking at the greatest smash competitor ever

People are like the game was too fast but there was genuinely counter play for almost every matchup only few characters needed buff. And Rick and Morty needed nerf because of insane projectile spam but that was it. Adding parry in that version of the game would have been crazy as well and also lead to more counterplay because of the size of dodge meter

If they shut this game down and we’re revamping to old game I would actually wait

[wintry inlet]

What's Batmans Infinite. Do share

[loud sky]

Batman doesn’t have one but too many characters have infinite

[marble sparrow]

ngl

is it possible to ban people who lose with bugs

character plays himself

jokes aside

batman feels cool to play

his reads are super tough

[loud sky]

Characters who play themselves:
Wonder Woman
Harley Quinn
Bugs bunny
Gizmo

[remote crescent]

dont forget joker

kinda crazy how thats the best characters in the game lol. easiest to flowchart and also top tier shouldnt mix

[loud sky]

Have u ever been on a platform stage and gotten 0-death by side special 100 times into up air

It’s genuinely insane

[wintry inlet]

It's hard as a Batman main now

I got lit up by a Shaggy yesterday. Beta Batman would never lose to Shaggy

Batarang would keep Shaggy honest all match

Now we have to fight in melee with him and he wins

We could be winning neutral but his kill power is so much better than ours that it doesn't even matter

Bats is like a worse Shaggy now what a shame

[loud sky]

lol I mained shaggy in beta and I loved having to try hard to work around baterang

Also the shaggy matchup now is super slow

U still can very much win

But u have to play slow because shaggy punishes are crazy

Batman is super light

Also since they removed loops shaggy jus waits for u to miss and try to kill u early

I still beat top shaggy but some of them are so lame like @vapid lotus

[remote crescent]

im fighting the good fight in general chat for us. i wont let batman get up-played. im not the hero we deserved, but the hero we needed 🫡

[wintry inlet]

I feel like Shaggy does what Batman does but way better

Its winnable, but it's an uphill battle

Because we have to make less mistakes than Shags

Shaggy has a batter punish game because our combos are trash now

His hitboxes are bigger than ours

Beta match up was very heavily in batman favour

Now it's Shaggy's favour imo

[wintry inlet]

Make us proud son

[raven urchin]

i really hate how he feels

he felt fluid and fun in the beta

now he feels clunky and slow

weird hitboxes

[granite kiln]

Who was the #1 Batman in the beta?

[wintry inlet]

I know, it really sucks

So many other characters have all this sauce

They're playing a different game

Had a T&J true combo me to 70%

And a joker jab loop to 50%

They have way better projectiles and melee than us

• they have high damage combos and kill setups

[raven urchin]

preach. they overbalanced him and i honestly feel like he just needs a rework at this point

[wintry inlet]

At this point, Batman shouldn't be a lightweight. He has to take way more risk than most of the cast for less reward

We have to win more times in neutral. And we have to make less mistakes otherwise we're ded

They should lower the cooldown on Batarang and make it an actual threat in neutral again

Batmans kit really relies on Batarang being on the screen to offset our bad hitboxes

[woeful viper]

Also Shaggy

[urban apex]

man it's so unfair fighting against so many other characters

goddamit

i have a toruney this weekend

i main batman but I might as well switch character during competitive matches

[wintry inlet]

Alot of the better characters have moves that you have to respect and play around. Batman doesn't really have that any more

We have no aerial approach besides dair. Sair is so bad

And batman in disadvantage sucks. Can't challenge anything under us. Can't use our speed to juke anything

Our size makes us combo food and our weight kills us early

Batman used to have speed, a fearsome batarang and actual combos. All gone 😢

[hasty lance]

Man I feel so heard reading how bad Batman is lmao man he idk if it’s because of old mvs but his movement was amazing and I would hold the dodge trigger while gliding sair and it was just so good

😦 sad days i dropped him for gizmo

Still trying to get good with him again tho because he was my og

Also his dive kick is so garbage idk why they didn’t at least speed that move up

[granite kiln]

Actual meta hopper

[hasty lance]

hes fun

[clever pollen]

More fun than bman tho?

[hasty lance]

more fun than new bman forsure

old beta batman was like butter

now hes like spoiled milk

[urban wraith]

I like it and use it a lot. If you can know where it will take priority it’s great. And you can follow it up with light dair

[hasty lance]

im still messing around with him still

also ima need them to drop rank again

[urban wraith]

Beta Batman had that movement I agree but he’s still very viable in the new game. Just gotta unlearn some things

[hasty lance]

yea maybe

[urban wraith]

Like the platform ability is lowkey nuts for him

[hasty lance]

i also feel so assed out when i go against wonder woman

holy heck can she stomp

[urban wraith]

Saw a combo use it and they used the smoke bomb to get him up high enough before bomb goes off and it kills

It’s nuts

[urban wraith]

WW is just broken

[hasty lance]

you got a link to it ?

[urban wraith]

She needs some nerfs

Lemme look

[hasty lance]

no fr her aoe is insane lmao

kills at like 30-40 depending on the character

[urban wraith]

I can do that on Batman too. Not as consistent as ww but still very possible

[hasty lance]

oh yea forsure with a combo i believe it

but her down tilt can do it alone

LOL

[wintry inlet]

Only against the worst players bro

[wintry inlet]

He's playable, but there are so many characters that have more sauce and are easier to use

[remote crescent]

anybody found setups with airwalker?

[green bay]

the more counterplays we expose the better chance we have to get buffed

Also, I hope they never bring back attack decay in any circumstances. I hate this mechanic so badly, being called attack decay or stale move negation, because this is in my opinion always an admission of bad game-design and is like applying a band-aid to a water leak. Sure this might somewhat works balance-wise but it's not elegant at all, it's ugly, boring and limiting.
There is plenty of other ways to achieve the removal of loops and I hope they explores these ways even if that means more work and "trial & errors"

[raven urchin]

yeah i'm glad it's not just me who thinks this character is off

i mean he's literally Batman... how do you do him this dirty?

the other DC characters are so good lol

i'm trying to understand the design philosophy but i just can't. it seems they're scared of batman being strong so they overbalance him but then they leave harley ww in OP beta state and buff their kill pressure hardcore?

[remote crescent]

i dont think batman is really in a bad spot or anything, he just feels fair in a very unfair game. once the top tiers get toned down i think itll be much better for him

[wintry inlet]

Sounds like a bad spot to me

[raven urchin]

taking mvs beta into account, im not sure top tiers will get toned down lmao

[wintry inlet]

True

[remote crescent]

i guarantee you we will see changes to harley/joker/WW/gizmo. to what extent we dont know, but i promise those characters will be adjusted

[wintry inlet]

The power difference between Batman and Harley is huge

That character just mashes buttons and there's nothing we can do about it