[Charm] Serrated Dream: Charm that makes Dreamnail deal damage and cut vines / chains

[brazen palm]

A simple charm that's "vanilla cost" could be 0, that gives the Dreamnail the ability to damage and cut things.
Ideally YARC could integreate with it for logic adjustments
Idea courtesy of @ashen dove

[rotund shore]

what things are cut-able? my mind is not working rightnow

[brazen palm]

Vines in, Green path, Watcher Rope, and Chain in city

[ashen dove]

Watcher Rope isn't a vine in the traditional sense, (it can be cut by non horizontal hits), but I would not be opposed to it's inclusion

[ashen dove]

iirc rando already just disables them anyway. But THK chains are chains, if we want to be pedantic.

[brazen palm]

Assuming you meant a comma instead of a period, but [[Access Rando]] already re-adds THK Chains, and they are damaged by any nail direction (but this charm could integrate with it, yeah)

[dark belfry]

AccessRandomizer

1.3.0.5

• ReadMe
• Repository
• Issues
• Downloads: Lumafly | GitHub | Direct

Description:

A randomizer add-on for miscellaneous access checks.

Dependencies:

╚ Satchel
╚ Randomizer 4
╚ ItemChanger
╚ MenuChanger

Tags:

Gameplay

Authors:

╚ nerthul11

[worthy sinew]

Kinda working except being not able to cut vines and background stuffs

[worthy crystal]

How much damage does that do?

[ashen dove]

At least 8. That's how much hp these enemies have. I would assume 10 or 15.

[worthy crystal]

Yeah i know
I think it would be balanced to scale with charge speed
Basically it would deal x than the base nail where x is time it takes to do one hit compared to a normal slash
Just an idea tho

I did just realise it should then scale with nail level..

[old depot]

I mean, having it interact with WK rope or THK chains is a feature even if logic wise it has no effect (unless some nuthead decides to randomize downslash someday)

[worthy crystal]

Oh yeah,and that will probably not happen
Randomizing pogo is only feaseble in a way decomaster does it(it no longer gives height,but still does damage)
If you remove it completelly it will alter logic in so many ways,and in so many ways it can go wrong.Same for the deco pogo randomization,however that one at least wouldnt break the like whole trjr and room rando(which spawns bosses in your face sometimes)

[ashen dove]

You are already getting the normal benefits of soul. So idk that it needs a ton of damage

[worthy crystal]

Who needs soul when you dont have spells or focus...
Im more focused on this being a damage source,like other charms or means of damage.Like spells or transcendence/palecourt charms
Not that anyone uses dnail for combat otherwise

[ashen dove]

Isn't the "only" issue having to rewrite basically all logic? That's probably doable, just would take a lot of time. Unless you had a team.

[ashen dove]

Ooh. Synergy with elegy maybe. Use soul to heal and then range attack

[worthy crystal]

It would leave you with only a few logic paths,and you'd survive without pogo for not too long,i imagine.Unless you would give abillities earlier or something
I mean,it is theoretically possible just sounds like a hell of a lot of work,and i dont think anyone would wanna do that

[old depot]

It is the only issue.

[elfin widget]

Imagine having nail directions..

Ender Onryo

[Reply to:](#1412157137421074552 message) Ooh. Synergy with elegy maybe. Use soul to heal and then range attack

[old depot]

At the same time, it is one hell of an issue

The kind of issue that would make wall rando maintenance tame in comparison

(And that would require a logic rewrite for all walls while mentioning them)

[worthy crystal]

Changing everything to have one pogo doesnt sound as bad as whatever the pogo rando would do lol

[ashen dove]

Nah, pogo rando is fine. It's jump rando that you have to worry about.

Split Walk

[worthy crystal]

Damage boosting to go the opposite way :gorbbrain:

Or even better,nail boosting

[old depot]

Split Walk gives me nightmares sometimes

[ashen dove]

Kingsoul + fireball

[worthy crystal]

I prefer we randomize breakeble objects before descending into complete madness like that

10k checks pool sounds incredeble

[ashen dove]

8K of them are literally useless

[old depot]

I dread the "oh hey I found a false negative, you can DBoost, do 7 shrogos into fireballing accross this gap with Kingsoul equipped. Should be completely logical"

[worthy crystal]

Nonono,hear me out.You have to obtain the specific item for the few nail pogos,otherwise they dont boost you
Unless you have "spire pogo object"(one of them ig),that transition is locked

[elfin widget]

That would make...only 7.8k useless

[old depot]

Probably close to 7.990

[ashen dove]

Split Walk further split into
Look Left/Right
Walk Left/Right

[ashen dove]

This is unironically me. I lab logic more than I play seeds.

[old depot]

Now, back to Dwarf's request, I'll be happy to help with YARC logic integration if someone ever makes this

[ashen dove]

Nb4 there is only 2 vines you can include in logic because none of the other ones have stable ground close enough to hit the vine. You have to assume the platform has already been aquired by the player. Lmao

[old depot]

That's actually kinda true

[worthy crystal]

Really only 2? I dont belive it...
Right before cornifer,both gp stag,sheo,storerooms

[ashen dove]

I pulled 2 out of my ass. Idak

[worthy crystal]

Oh classic,thats what i usually do lmao
I just got triggered by 2 because i was immidiatly able to find 4

Top hunter is also maybe reacheble..

[worthy sinew]

60 for non awoken and 80 for awoken

[worthy crystal]

Holy

[worthy sinew]

you think it's too OP?

[worthy crystal]

Kinda
Not that we dislike opness..

Something like 45 and 90 would be better tho imo

[worthy crystal]

The buff for awoken feels too littlle for both rando and vanilla
Vanilla dnail is 12 min if you want it,and awoken is idek an hour
And for rando its dgate + awoken
And currently awd has 2 uses
Shade lord(with lore rando) and palace (with no room or bench rando)
So a buff to it feels good

[worthy sinew]

Because actually I think why do we have to dream nail for that amount of damage while we can do 51 damage with one slash + shade soul, which is a lot too

[worthy crystal]

That is considering you have shade soul tho
And you can still cast it,dnail gives you the soul

But im not really opposed to having it do 60
My problem is the awakening buff

It should deffinetelly do double the gamage

[worthy sinew]

fine

Or.. making it sync with the nail damage seems like a better idea?

[elfin widget]

It does sound pretty good

[worthy sinew]

any ideas of the formula to calculate dream nail damage?

[ashen dove]

D = N^50000000000

[worthy crystal]

Get a const for the charge factor
Then d=n*const

Unless more synergies are planned

[old depot]

Dream Wielder lowkey becomes the goat

[worthy crystal]

I love the ocasional 6 notches weilder

[ashen dove]

Maybe base damage is directly equal to dream shield

[worthy crystal]

[worthy sinew]

uh huh. im bad at game design

[worthy crystal]

Dsheild=nail
So it would be 5😭 😭 😭

[old depot]

2x nail damage for base and 3x for awd could be reasonable

[ashen dove]

Dream gate shock wave.

[old depot]

It can potentially do 90+ but you'd spend a million charms on that

[worthy sinew]

Dream gate and open a dark fountain

[ashen dove]

90+ charms that all cost [0].

[old depot]

I don't think balance matters much if all your charms cost 0 lmao

[worthy crystal]

Unusable at base nail
More smartnail action yuppi

[ashen dove]

Wait. I missread the message

[worthy sinew]

sorry but what's 90+?

[ashen dove]

Me being stupid

[old depot]

10 base damage can be a bliss if your only alternative is pogo Marmu

[worthy crystal]

You can easilly slash twice in the time dnail charges
And probably do 2.something,and not be locked in place and easilly miss your attack with dnail
I like my approach

[ashen dove]

Damage = Nail * (current essence/1000)
?

[worthy crystal]

Marmu isnt dnaileble🔥

[worthy crystal]

6 damage at 1.2k escense?

[old depot]

Oh essence-based damage makes sense

[worthy sinew]

I really love this idea

[worthy crystal]

Yeah escense sounds good tho

Just not /1000

[ashen dove]

[old depot]

Nail * essence / (600/400)

or

Essence / (50/25)

Depending on wanting for it to care about the normal nail at all or not

Just dropping some random numbers but those should be the main variables likely

[worthy crystal]

I might like the second approach more simply because it makes the 40 million one escenses not completelly useless

[ashen dove]

It also gives essence a use after you clear out the seer. (Highest cost item was 1200 )

[worthy crystal]

My costs been sitting at 2.7k or smth for a while now

But yea

[old depot]

Farming bees or fluke larvas becomes a reasonable damage strat

[ashen dove]

Maybe we give a damage cap

[old depot]

@brazen palm Do you care if it's specifically a charm or if it can be made into an innate Dream Nail ability? (Syncable between randos, of course)

[ashen dove]

Maybe A dnail isn't more damaging. But a higher cap

[worthy sinew]

I will put the source code in here
https://github.com/hien-ngo29/KillableDreamNail

[worthy crystal]

I love being able to kill the dnail

[worthy sinew]

Oppss:)

Always have grammar mistakes

[ashen dove]

Technically it was my idea. Lol.
But personally I'm indifferent. I'm probably not gonna use it so I say do whatever is the most interesting/fun.

[old depot]

Oh wow, glad you posted first since I was gonna build it lmao

[worthy crystal]

Sounds like something i wouldnt wanna use
I like vanilla dnail being an infinite soul source

It being a charm allows you to still alternate

[old depot]

Oh so it would remove the soul gaining property?

[worthy crystal]

Kinda

[ashen dove]

No. But it would kill the thing

[worthy crystal]

It would oneshot guys

[ashen dove]

Rip bluggsac soul farm

[old depot]

Oh fair

[worthy sinew]

it would be fun to add an easter egg that you could insta kill a mantis lord with dream nail lol

[ashen dove]

The Dream Weilder in question.

Although I imagine this mod would take about 2 months to make. Given what's happening on Thursday.

[old depot]

Just farm bees for 2000 hours

[worthy crystal]

It could be a non charm if it was toggleble..but that sounds a lot harder to impliment than simply a charm
It also gives you something to find to use it
And you could further scale salubras costs

[elfin widget]

Pcc+transcendence+this allows you to have 60 charms

Roma 337

[Reply to:](#1412157137421074552 message) It could be a non charm if it was toggleble..but that sounds a lot harder to impliment than simply a...

[ashen dove]

And all of them cost [0]

[worthy crystal]

I very much doubt you'll be using dnail when you have bloom with lemm strength lolol

[old depot]

And if used on Dryya on the overworld it insta kills her and grants you a check so you can pull an AdditionalMaps skip

[worthy crystal]

Thats so stupid and funny
If (dnail damage && access rando || additional maps) is mod
Add logic to dryaa ow,gating her behind (enoughDnailDamage)

[ashen dove]

(Idk who drya is. I haven't played hk in awhile. Lol)

[worthy crystal]

The dead girl outside wl room
Palecourt adds ||her as a boss||

One of the Great Knights

(And palecourt has a bug with additonal maps and acess rando,not allowing you ||to enter the fight for some reason||)

[ashen dove]

I'm not gonna look at that but I imagine it's very .

[worthy crystal]

It is certainly silly

[brazen palm]

Since Ender didn't care:
Personally I really like the idea of it being a charm, and specifically having a "vanilla" cost of 0, because this would be the first charm that I can think of where 0 makes sense.

Also since I'm late to a bunch of convo- I love the idea of tying the damage to essence. Imo something like

DreamNailDamage = Essence / (200/DreamNailLevel)
If (DreamNailDamage < 10) {
    DreamNailDamage = 10}
# where DreamNailLevel is 0 for basic dream nail, and increases by 1 for each level up

-# Most ideally, it probably does some sort of logarithmic damage scaling, so that it is more benefitted by smaller amounts of essence, but still gains damage in the higher numbers without one-shotting bosses

I think it's also ok for it to be very strong, since you can't reasonably Dnail each enemy. This would overall probably still be worse-lemm's strength lol

If being a charm is a big issue for existing, then a charmless version is okay ofc, but as others have said, being able to toggle it would be nice, and the only other way I can imagine would be to make clicking on Dnail in inventory a toggle (which I've heard is a PitA to implement)

[half coral]

Art! if needed

little rough around the edges, will polish more if this mod gets traction, with silksong around the corner that might be a while

[ashen dove]

It could maybe do with spikes on the edge. To accentuate the "damage" aspect.

Although I understand modifications like that are harder than color swaps

[half coral]

actually you could use dreamsheilds art to add the spikes

not a bad idea

its a little more than a colorswap ( if you notice the contours around the dreamnail ), but not a original piece of art, good enough for a charm art id say

its me kitbashing and blending using some extra brush strokes

let me see

[ashen dove]

Lumafly: Yo, why hasn't anyone updated their shit in over 4 months?

Actually, I wonder if Lumafly will become a multi game mod manager. Or if SS will get it's own. "Silkmoth"

[half coral]

I think it will become a mult-game one

[old depot]

I'd expect a different installer as Lumafly works with Modlinks to pull mods will likely be different for Song

[brazen palm]

That, and Lumafly (and Scarab) are pretty hardcoded to just work for HK (and a single patch of HK at that).
Like, there's a reason that Lumafly doesn't let you mod other common patches (ie 1221, 1432), and that's that trying to make it be able to switch to those would require redesigning it almost entirely

[old depot]

Yeah also that, which makes complete sense but I never learned how it works behind the scenes

[worthy sinew]

Sorry for this odd question but what is PitA

Yeahh be available in the modlink just a few minutes

[half coral]

@worthy sinew is the scaling of the charm art okay

how does it look like in the full menu

[worthy sinew]

No need to worry about the scaling, that is done automatically in the code

i guess

[half coral]

cool

[brazen palm]

Pain in the Ass

[worthy sinew]

sorry somehow I thought it was a mod

[ashen dove]

"Pain in the ass"

🐌

[heavy coyote]

Rad as hell

@worthy sinew @half coral permission to have the mod (and art) on the wiki?

[half coral]

absolutely on the art part

ive made some more for the skill charms mod but I never implemented it, it was never officially picked up

[heavy coyote]

Good idk what I'd've done if the mod was given permission but not the art

Wouldve been a very awkward looking page

"This mod adds a charm. No you can't see it"

[worthy sinew]

Of course!

[heavy coyote]

Yippee

Get permission for a mod to be added to the wiki any% speedrun

[ashen dove]

Source: Trust me bro.

[half coral]

Question: whats the other modded charm next to it

[worthy sinew]

From SilksongHealing

Oh well [V] is hardcoded and you cant change in settings : P

My favorite modded charm

[half coral]

is it made by you?

[worthy sinew]

Yep

[half coral]

hmm

[worthy sinew]

Thanks to that charm, I can pass Champion's call in Pale Court

[half coral]

I wanna make slightly better art for it, ill DM you

[worthy sinew]

Oh really? Thanks

Currently working on my own modded boss so i dont usually mod anything else or maintain my other mods. But since it's just a small change, it's completely fine

[half coral]

@worthy sinew check DM

[heavy coyote]

Is this the only thing added in SSHealing? If so I would also lile permssion to add this one to the wiki

If it's not the only thing added by SSHealing, I'd still like permission but will also note it will take longer before I tackle it

[half coral]

the art for that recently updated, so hold

[heavy coyote]

Dw, I won't be making the actual page until next week probably

[rotund shore]

you are making a mod wiki?

[heavy coyote]

The hk wiki has a modding namespace :)

[rotund shore]

oh, didn't know that XD

[half coral]

spent 10 mins trying to make better art but outta juice

Actuallyy

Got an idea

Decided to base it off the Charm that gives dreamnail faster swing speed, and mix spiky elements from longnail to make it look offensive, I think it looks pretty decent, the color scheme is consistent with the 2 other dream charms

@worthy sinew better Serrated Dream nail art!

[heavy coyote]

Another pretty charm sprite

[half coral]

considering the other one is using unbreakable strength as a base, that one could be another charm that increases serrated dreamnail damage?

or base effect being increase souls gain from dreamnail, synergy with serrated dreamnail that it increases damage

[jade void]

Looks beautiful

[worthy sinew]

wait, dont. Haven't finished the new charm image update yet (actually I have no time). I will ping u when things done

Why are people soo interested in damageable dream nail?

[jade void]

Cuz it is silly fun idea

Also like it sounds broken against false knight and failed champion

Cuz dream nail plus armour pogo means infinite soul but this means infinite damage as well possibly on them

[heavy coyote]

again, I'll probably only do it next week. And once we make a mod page we can... update it if necessary

[ashen dove]

Only the maggot takes damage during their "stagger" iirc

[jade void]

Yeah

But the dream nail would do damage to the maggot is what I am assuming

Isk

But it looks cool

[heavy coyote]

It feels like you don't understand how false knight stagger works

[jade void]

Nah I do I just haven’t played Hollow Knight for 3 weeks

The maggot doesn’t get dreamnailed , the armour does

[worthy sinew]

Will Serrated Dream work on rando?