#Mentality is too powerful

102 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

quasi cypress
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In both directions. Very poor mentality can result in 10+ points being lost from stats and very high can be 10+ points added. This is utterly absurd of a range considering the "effective" skill range of drivers and staff is 80-100. So you can have your stats being cut effectively in half, or being doubled. This has led to Stroll being a god, and Alonso being garbage, because they have a midfield car/team. It does not make sense

If you have a decent to good car and facilities, it's better to take staff that are around mid 80s, as the boost they will get jumps them up to being the best in the field as they expect mid/low field quality and you're giving them far better than that. Meanwhile the top staff/drivers will see minimal to no benefit from this, or worse, if something is not quite the absolute best, they'll suffer from it. So it's better to keep your staff less than ideal so you always get a decent boost.

This should be cut in half, the absolute most the deviation should be is +/- 5 points. This would prevent incredibly wild and nonsensical swings like bottom drivers being top drivers and vice versa, and would be minor enough that it's a choice between "less than ideal" staff and the top staff and stay fairly balanced. While ensuring that a team on a good run and a team on a bad run do have at least impactful morale implications from that.

wary valley
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Yep

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upvote this guys

rain silo
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For reference: At the start of the game with his "Positive" mentality, Max Verstappen has +7 in all main attributes

lost hornet
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I wish I could up vote this 100 times because it is actually stopping me From purchasing this game at the moment

It needs a quick fix asap
Personally it is game breaking to me

quasi cypress
silver ledge
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I think we should not have a cap of 100 when considering bonuses. High rated drivers should be able to exceed 100 to make the bonuses consistent. Having a 95 and 98 rated driver be essentially equal because they both hit the cap seems bad. Of course those drivers aren't in the game but some drivers have skills in the mid 90s.

lost hornet
quasi cypress
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Keep in mind that in race confidence also adds onto their stats, so yeah, an 80 rated driver can have 100 stats

lost hornet
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This is why it is game breaking to me
Why ride with max when you have Godlike stroll waiting in the corner at a cheaper salary/ low maintenance

silver dagger
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100%

long dove
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agree w this

quaint lion
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it feels like the range should be about +/- 2 tbh give that there really only like 80-100 as a skill range

feral zinc
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To me, it's not about being too powerful - look at especially older drivers and you can see massive fluctuations in performance when they move teams

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The problem, is how quickly mentality can sway

quasi cypress
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Drivers are fickle things, so that does kind of track though.

jagged relic
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I think driver confidence is still a big contributor to that as well. Especially when you’re on the lower end of the grid and pitting after the ai. Confidence shouldn’t take such a massive hit as a result of getting overtaken by drivers on a different strategy.

harsh wing
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Where do you see the final ratio for a rider after mentality?

quasi cypress
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The number by their name will not change, it will reflect their non modified stats, the actual performance ratings number show the post mentality values

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harsh wing
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So +10 after the mentality, literally LMAO

quasi cypress
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Have an enthusiastic Max

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Overtaking 100/100

timid tulip
timid tulip
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I get two laps from the leader pack in every race.
20 units is the difference between the drivers. We are racing against supermen. Who invented this crap?!

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quasi cypress
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Addition was invented and formalized mainly by the Chinese more than 6,000 years ago.

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Pretty sure the concept existed since time immemorial, Quora

long dove
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I realllllly hope this is nerfed

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mentality is ridiculous and almost makes driver ratings irrelevant

lost hornet
timid tulip
timid tulip
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This is the other side of the scale. Gasly looks like a poor F2 driver.

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timid tulip
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This is the Monaco GP result. As you can see 1 lap down from 7th place, 2 laps from 9th and 3 from 18th. In Monaco. How realistic, isn't it? lol

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timid tulip
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There is already in the game race confidence, which affects drivers performance and works well. Although the 7-8 point (maximum) value increase is a bit much, 5 would be more ideal, at least in hard mode.

So there is no need for the base mentality to have an effect on the pilots' values and therefore race performance. What should have an effect is his/her relationship with the team, which for example causes a conflict with his race engineer or makes him want to leave the team (doesn't want to sign new contract) or doesn' t accept the team order or openly criticises the team management and so on…

But if you want to insist on having an impact on the values of the driver, you should maximize the number of these in two.
So the available pilot values would be:
Mentality: 0-2
Race confidence (5-8)
If it were up to me, the two would not add up to more than 5

Then it would also be worth thinking about when to push the team mentality to the bottom. The mentality of a newly formed team is (in my opinion) more about enthusiasm than gloom. But I would be content if the mentality of the team members was at least neutral. They would also give the team half a season to prove that the team principal knows what he is doing and that the future of the team is not hopeless...

lost hornet
lost hornet
quasi cypress
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Confidence at least levels out relatively quickly. You could get a big boost from it, but then it'll be back to providing little

shell onyx
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I'd love to just have a slider for how effective we'd want Mentality to be
Say it with me: Cu-sto-miz-a-bi-li-ty 😄

ashen bison
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having mentality this OP would be cool for silly saves

lost hornet
ornate python
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are there any news when it gets adressed? because on the patch today there is nothing like the mentality balancing

lost hornet
feral zinc
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Switch got mentality balance in their update

lost hornet
feral zinc
lost hornet
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Just checked it
You are right
Why didn't they do the same for pc/consoles

wintry sorrel
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How much did they change it for switch?

lost hornet
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Not on switch so I don't know

timid tulip
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Theo Pourchaire in a good mood vs Esteban Ocon in a bad mood. Ridiculous.

Another side effect of the system is that scouts cannot give an accurate and real assessment to the team principal. I don't mind that, but I'm afraid the majority of players won't be happy about it.

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timid tulip
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The game is currently playable but unenjoyable. At least for me. The morale (mentality) of my drivers is at the bottom of the pit, they are unhappy with everything, especially the car, which was 20th fastest at the start of the season and I improved it to 11th-12th in 10 races. The way the races are run is that at about the halfway point, the cars in the lead pass me at cannonball speed, driven by supermen, and I'm already 1 lap behind. By the end of the race, everyone from **7th **(!!!) place downwards gets a one-two or three lap. It's like F1 cars racing F2 cars driven by poorly skilled F2 drivers. Of course, I wouldn't want my drivers to be near 100 and racing against 70s either. I do not feel that it has the slightest connection with reality.

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brittle pewter
timid tulip
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yes

ornate python
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yeah mentality system is a nice idea but the execution is horrible, i think the idea were better if a better setup would improve the quali and races lap times. and the mentality would increase the rating by some points, max. 3 or so.

in easy: get rid off the rating bonus for the setup and give it to the mentality, and then increase/decrease the lap time for setup thresholds +50% setup increases the lap times and -50% decreases the lap times

timid tulip
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I'm afraid 3 points is too many. Let's think about it! Frontier's approach puts the overall score of F1 capable drivers at between 80 and 92. 92 for Verstappen, who is at the peak of his career, 80 is the value at which a driver is still (already) considered F1 capable. If we add the 8 points that can be obtained with racing confidence to the mentality value of 3, we are already at 11. This means that a driver with Zhou's ability becomes a Verstappen-level driver with a good mood and strong racing confidence. I think it's not hard to see that this is completely unrealistic. Even if we increase Zhou's performance by only 5 points, he will already be a Carlos Sainz level driver, which is still nice.

Never take the easy way out! 😉 Racing confidence is a well-functioning system and it really does have an impact on a driver's performance. It is worth debating whether the maximum 8 point increase is too much or not. I think it is too much.

Of course, one could argue that the mentality of the pilot has an effect on his performance. I don't think so, but if it does, it is minimal at best. Let's not forget that drivers are always chasing an F1 contract and cannot afford to perform below their ability because they will very quickly find themselves outside F1.

The other is that the system has to work well. This means that the mentality of the drivers should rise or fall in time according to reality. It doesn't work that way now. I accept that this is not easy to do, but Frontier decided to build a mentality system into the game. Then it should be done right.

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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the mentality system is unnecessary or bad, it's very good and necessary, it just has an effect on others. If a driver doesn't get a good car or doesn't feel comfortable with the team for some reason (like not feeling appreciated) it has other effects.

Here are some ideas on what the mentality should affect, because I don't want to just criticize, I want to give ideas. And this can be expanded with new ideas.

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quaint lion
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I don't think racing confidence works very well tbh. If max pits, ends up behind ocon, and passes him immediately, that should not shake ocon.

These things all in conjunction are a mess though.

timid tulip
timid tulip
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I recently realised something interesting and depressing about the new mental system. I chose the hungry newcomer preset within the create-a-team mode. Based on this, the game ranks me 17th. The attached picture shows the car's properties at startup. From there, the development of the car naturally starts. I'm currently facing the Hungaroring race, which is the 13th race on the calendar. The car has come a long way since then, and it looks a bit too fast for me compared to playing in hard mode, but that's another topic.

So the car has improved a lot, but the overall power ranking has not changed. It's quite shocking considering the amount of progress that's been made. It was striking that my drivers were massively unhappy with the performance of the car throughout. It was totally incomprehensible, but I'm not so surprised now, because if they so know that the car is still in the pre-season rankings, I can understand their frustration...

I can't decide whether to put a crying or laughing emoji at the end of that sentence, because it's incredibly pathetic. How can you screw up something so badly?

By the way, under the circuits menu you can see where the car is in the ranking for that circuit and it shows the actual picture, which is 7th place on the Hungaroring circuit.
I am afraid there will be more interesting facts to come in the future, maybe one day we will find out why my crew hate each other so much: the drivers hate the engineers, the engineers hate the drivers and everyone hates me. 🙂

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frozen burrow
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It’s so frustrating. In my save both Mercedes is P6 in constructor, meanwhile RB is P5 and always through to Q3 and Mercedes always stay in Q1,Q2.

I checked the mentality of Russell and Hamilton and is so bad.

In my save Mercedes has better car than RB, but the mentality is so powerful.

It’s so frustrating.

timid tulip
frozen burrow
sinful plume
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This is good

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Better than constant drs trains

timid tulip
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This game should be renamed to Mentality Manager. Although even that would be manure. I got these pictures from Nerobax' video. He is already ahead in development, he has almost the most powerful car in the field (again, a comment here, how is this possible in hard mod?). Despite this the game ranks him 20th, which of course his driver is massively unhappy with.

As a result, his results are barely improving, because he can only improve his driving mentality to a small extent. Apparently mentality is more important than a strong car, which in an F1 game sounds more than a little ridiculous. Another detrimental side effect is that because the car is theoretically the 20th best (or 2nd worst) the race result bonus is well below its potential, as they only offer a bonus for 18th place.

Then I also wondered what would happen if I stopped developing the car completely and switched to developing next year's car, since it has been a sensible strategy in the past to focus on next season from there once you've achieved this year's goal. How will I explain this to my drivers? 😄

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timid tulip
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  1. Drugovich in normal mood 2. Drugovich in bad mood. 3. Drugovich in bad mood after 1.5 patch. Thank you, Frontier, you did an excellent job! LOL
feral zinc
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All of those are negative

lost hornet
timid tulip
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sorry i screwd up, i fixed it

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timid tulip
# lost hornet Not really any major differences

no, not really. After applying the patch I went to Barcelona, where during two free practice sessions Drugovich did two lock-ups, a spin and a crash. I had to replace half the car. Well, I guess the game is now unplayable.

lost hornet
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For me with the mentality thing being this buff, the game was always unplayable

low pebble
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Obviously agree that it’s way too powerful but please also change the way the stat boosts are shown. Keeping the base stats and perhaps showing, for example, a +2 or -2 in green or red respectively alongside would be clearer. Similar to the way stat changes are shown in monthly driver development emails. The current way makes scouting/comparing drivers much more difficult and unnatural.

timid tulip
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The car satisfaction problem (bug) doesn't seem to have been fixed either.

Can anyone tell me the master plan behind the AI teams sending out affiliates on sprint weekends? LOL

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hollow pecan
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pourchaire level 81 but with enthusiastic mentality has cornering skills 97. the mentality system is too strong. then it is not clear when it is based and how much depends on the mentality; yesterday someone wrote well that it would be nice to have + in green and - in red!

ornate python
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btw is there anyway to see the raw stats (without mentality buff)?

feral zinc
ornate python
timid tulip
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Nothing substantial has changed in the new patch. The racing simulation is as weird and unrealistic as it was. The first 6 cars (Red Bull, Ferrari, McLaren) are in a different league; they move at the speed of the agents in the Matrix. They race against each other from 7th place giving everyone at least 1 lap, the backmarkers 3-4.

The way I see it, the developers have gone back to the roots; they've taken the game back to the arcade world experienced in 22. Forget about sophisticated strategies in races, it's the maintenance of race confidence that defines everything. That means avoiding being overtaken at all costs, because if you get overtaken by more than one car, your drivers' confidence will plummet and from there it's all over; all you can pray for is that they don't crash the car. But typically it will. The only strategy that works: push, overtake and box. push, overtake and box. Just don't overtake me! It's incredibly frustrating, weird and unrealistic and gets boring quickly. What I'm trying to get across is how unrealistic it is; the harder you push, the less you get overtaken, thus less chance of incidents. How realistic, isn't it? (lol)

But arcade gamers needn't worry; the game tempts you to quickly collect the best pilots and engineers, who you can quickly transform into perfect soldiers using the new and shiny (lol) mentality system. With them, you can easily race through the field, only to complain about how easy the game is, and immediately need another level of difficulty (lol).

I have criticized this attitude a lot and asked for this not to happen, but of course frontier doesn't really care. I don't see the argument for it, since the new create a team mode allows anyone to assemble any crew they want. If that's what they want.

The new (and older) game modules (features) are just full of unrelistic, arcade elements, so I think it's fair to assume that this will be the direction of the future.

Shots are from the brilliant NEROBAX videos.

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lost hornet
timid tulip
lost hornet
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Thanks man

timid tulip
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Here are Lawson core values, his values boosted by mentality system and values boosted by mentality system + race confidence, wich is a real superman mode.

So for example his basic value of braking, wich is 82 can reach 97-98. It is 15-16 points boosting. This is absolutely ridiculous.

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lost hornet
fervent mantle
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My suggestion for the mentality boost if it is to stay as high as +8 is that it is a temporary + 8 boost to stats for the next race weekend. At that point the driver/staff member goes back to base stats except a permanent +3 boost to a stat that his/her performance in the previous race warrants. For exmple if your driver overtakes several cars on track his overtaking could have the permanent boost when it all resets. Sort of a mix between how it was in F1M 22 when overtakes and defends were counted and scored

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Obviously the reverse happens when mentality is in the mud. At the moment a permanent +8 is just way too high, average drivers and staff become like Max!

lost hornet
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Personally I ain't touching this game again until this is fixed

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You are not even talking about the ripple effect it has in other areas
Like drivers sulking in races e.g leclerc getting lap with a car which is top 3 in the grade ,all because he has bad mentality couple with low driver confidence

Secondly drivers regress as early as 25 yrs young because their mentality sucks so they refused to use the race simulator effectively

Thirdly the Ai merry go around because bad Mentality means it is easier to be poached by any team there by triggering the kamikaze transfer window session

Lastly I think though I am not too sure about it , mentality might be one of the reasons for the unrealistic field spread
Drivers might be so unhappy that they forget they are actually in a real grand Prix.
Driving at snail pace sulking there way up to the finish line

This system working alongside drivers confidence is game breaking

timid tulip
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There are two problematic modules here, the mentality system and the race confidence. I would suggest that the two should work completely independently of each other. I think that's the right way.

The mentality system is, as I wrote earlier, a good feature and no doubt has its place in the game. The basics are good, I like several things about it. If Frontier devs manage to fix the wicked bugs it could become a cool feature.

The biggest problem is of course the exaggerated effect of mentality on the pilot's stats. I would go so far as to say that it should have no effect at all on the pilots current values. But. You could introduce values that would in turn be very much affected by the good/bad mood of the drivers. I'm thinking of mental attributes, of which I would support the introduction of concentration and pressure handling (or composure) attributes. But I suggest moderation here too! The change should be adjusted to the difference between the drivers' overall scores.
And the values of the staff should not change due to mentality or anything else!!!

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Another problem is the relationship and affinity between drivers and their engineers. If I understand it correctly, it works in such a way that the initial relationship is very bad and then improves over time. Well, that is anything but realistic. Would it look good if the affinity was neutral at the beginning of the relationship, then over time it went in a positive or negative direction. And what would that depend on?

There are 3 qualities of a race engineer, communication, feedback and composure. Good communication speeds up the development of affinity, feedback is technical help with the car, composure can give mental support. Pilots should be assigned preferences, who needs what, it can be just feedback, just composure, both or in very rare cases neither. For a driver of Fernando Alonso's calibre, for example. The AI could do this randomly, so it would be different for each save. And of course it would be a hidden preference.

The third problem is that the drivers are not able to detect the change in the overall ranking of the car. Therefore their satisfaction is almost never adequate. I don't know how the AI calculates this value.
In any case, a correct calculation would be needed, because right now it's not.

timid tulip
lost hornet
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The system is heavily reliant on facilities updates which is something that is not among the Ai scale of preferences because of scarcity of cash.

This is the reason why drivers don't really grow in this game outside your own drivers and they regress too early
Why?
Because Ai drivers and all their affiliates end up getting pissed because of lack of facilities update which in turn stunt their development
That's why by 2030 the driver pool in the game becomes extremely weak which makes the game way more easier than it is .

This game ain't built for any saves more than 3 yrs in its current state

Having any facility other than team hub /race simulator affects drivers mentality towards development negatively or positively is very poorly implemented.

A driver development shouldn't be tied to how fine the board room is or grand the helipad looks like

slate lynx
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still too powerful, if you get +8 for mentality and +8 for confidence, then drivers rated over 85 are basically pointless because they arnt able to use all the stats. for example 92 rated verstappen and 84 rated ocon both maxed out are rated the same overall or even a neutral max is worse than a enthusiastic ocon

low pebble
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The upvotes though 😂

timid tulip
# slate lynx still too powerful, if you get +8 for mentality and +8 for confidence, then driv...

Pretty much everyone agrees with that, except the Frontier guys. lol

Unfortunately, a good idea was followed by a terrible execution. As a player, I would perhaps rightly hope, for example, that if my 18th ranked team achieved a podium finish, the team members would be swimming in happiness. But not in this game. In this game, team members get excited when I build a team hub and memorabilia room. lol

Well, it's that kind of game.

tender girder
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The biggest issue I had at McLaren with mentality was one engineer was unhappy with the other staff and divers which made no sense at all

slate lynx
tender girder
slate lynx
quaint lion
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kind of think this system should only be entirely negative. max happy? 100% of your rating. Anything less is a penalty. That way the math of the system doesn't break outright.

long dove