#Is the Cost of Null//Shock always 1 in hand?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

flint garden
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I realize the Meld text allows you to cast both sides for 1, but the card itself has a cost 1 then each "sub-card" also has a cost 1?

ROS023-rotated.png
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Because you always cast the cards separately, it can never has a cost of 2?

oak hill
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If you Melded the card to play both sides, you'd need to pay 2 resources. If you play either side by itself, the cost is 1.

flint garden
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So in the mirror for instance, I can Null a Null if I have dealt 1 arcane this turn, because the cost of Null is always 1 (Shock is tracked separately as a different item on the stack as 1, and Null // Shock is always 1 in hand)

oak hill
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A melded card is not two different layers on the stack, it's one layer that resolves twice

flint garden
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So would a melded card (this one, for example) have a combined cost (2 in this case)?

oak hill
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You'd need to have dealt 3 2 arcane damage this turn to play your own Null (paying 1) to Negate an opponent's Null // Shock assuming they played it Melded and paid 2

flint garden
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You are a saint, thank you

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I'm reading the rules now, I was just confused

oak hill
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When you play a card and meld it, it goes onto the stack and has all properties of both halves of the card, and then resolves twice (right side first)

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It's kinda confusing, heh

fleet moat
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And I'm pretty sure the actual cost of the card stays as 1, when referring to the property

flint garden
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but when not in play, it has a cost of 1? Would a melded Null // Shock be a Wizard Lightning Instant?

oak hill
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The base cost is still one, but Null doesn't care about the base cost, it cares about the cost

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8.3.38b Meld sets the asset-cost of a card before increases and decreases are applied. (Rule 5.1.6)

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We're setting the cost to 2, which is what Null refers to

fleet moat
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2.2.4b An effect that refers to the cost of an object refers to the unmodified cost property of an object.
An effect that refers to the payment of an object, refers to the modified cost of an object when it was
paid to play/activate and put that object on the stack.

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Tho tbh I wasn't even referring to Null's effect, just to the general properties of the cards

flint garden
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If I had a card that searched for ONlY a Wizard Lightning card (not wizard or lightning) would this be legal?

fleet moat
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But this is a pretty relevant rule

2.2.4. The cost property of an object cannot be modified.

flint garden
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No, because when not in play it is wizard OR lightning but not both?

fleet moat
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It's both when not in play

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It's a Wizard Lightning Instant

flint garden
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The melded card is treated as if it were melded when not in play

oak hill
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Hmm, to the release notes then

fleet moat
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I'm speaking out of memory, so I'll just confirm it by checking the CR, but pretty sure that's how it works

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9.2.2. A split-card is considered a single card with all the properties of both sides, except when put onto the
stack (see Rule 9.2.3).

flint garden
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Huge, thank you

fleet moat
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Here it is

flint garden
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I'm working my way through the rules, it's just slow going

oak hill
fleet moat
oak hill
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Heh, the only card to ever refer to "base cost" was Frost Lock

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Alright, I think Pedro is right here. You'd need to have dealt 2 damage to Null even a melded Null//Shock

fleet moat
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If anyone else wants to chime in, I'm pretty sure that's how it works, but it's always good to have some more heads working together

marble turtle
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Yeah, I was about to say something, then realized you got it covered.

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it's always the printed cost.

oak hill
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So many effects, just one cost

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Like diet soda

flint garden
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while i have you guys here, are there any other odd types of cards? I see there are "normal" cards with only one side, "meld" cards where you can cast both halves, "tranforming" cards that flip to a back face when a condition is met

fleet moat
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Honestly I think Meld are one of the oddest ones, maybe cards that Transform or flip also raise some questions

flint garden
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so i play Teklo, so i've been reading about singularity. is "flipping" technically different from "transforming"?

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i know if you "flip" a card in any zone it basically has no characteristics (watery grave the most recent example)

marble turtle
fleet moat
marble turtle
# flint garden i know if you "flip" a card in any zone it basically has no characteristics (wat...

depends on what you mean by "flipping." It's very colloquially used for different things, and I don't recall if official rules or terminology actually ever use "flipping." In case of watery grave, cards you turn upside down don't have any properties. For cards that have two faces (like dragon invocations, figments/angels or chi/transcend cards), you always refer to the active face for all properties.

fleet moat
# marble turtle depends on what you mean by "flipping." It's very colloquially used for differen...

Funnily enough they are actually referred to as "flip-cards" which I didn't know

9.1.3. A flip-card is a double-faced card that has a front-face and a back-face, with one of the following
printed subtypes on its front-face: figment, invocation, or construct. Only one face of a flip-card is active
at any given point. The properties of a flip-card are defined by its active face. The types of its front-face
determines if it is a hero-, token-, deck-, or arena-card (see Section 1.3 - Cards)

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But flip and flipping are actual terms, that are very different to turning face down, when it comes to in game actions

marble turtle
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huh, TIL. that means when I say "flip" to awaken a figment, it's actually the technically correct terminology. neat.

flint garden
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but a Figment is a transforming card (it will revert to the front face when shuffled), while a Chi is a transcend card (it will stay Chi face when shuffled in)

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right?

fleet moat
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Yeah, tho I never stopped to think why some cards unflip and some don't, will check it out

marble turtle
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because they're different types of cards

flint garden
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if there is a list floating around i would love to see it, i love this kind of stuff

marble turtle
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if my PC would load the CR, that'd be great

fleet moat
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9.1.3b If a flip-card is inside the game, its front-face is active until a rule or effect would make its
back-face active. If the card would then become a new card, its front-face is active again. (See Rule
3.0.9)

9.1.5. A transcend-card is a double-faced card that has a front-face and a back-face, with the front-face that
has an ability that generates the transcend effect (see Rule 8.5.48). Only one face of a transcend-card is
active at any given point. The properties of a transcend-card are defined by its active face. The types of
its front-face determines if it is a deck- or arena-card (see Section 1.3 - Cards).

EDIT: More relevant ruling
9.1.5b If a transcend-card is inside the game, its front-face is active until it transcends and makes its
back-face active. Its back-face remains active even if it would become a new object. (See Rule
3.0.9)

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Special rules for Transcend flipping

marble turtle
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thanks! was gonna post that.

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aaaand now it's loaded.

fleet moat
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Edites with the most important part when it comes to not unflipping when it changes zones and stuff

marble turtle
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different types of cards, different rules. maybe a little unintuitive, though

flint garden
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if an effect tells me to turn a figment (lets say on its front side) "face down" I dont get a free figment, it goes to an imaginary 3rd side with no properties, right?

marble turtle
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man, seeing all those bacon reactions makes me hungry

fleet moat
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Yeah, goes to the extremely banished zone (that's a joke, it just doesn't have any properties)

marble turtle
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we should probably move to #🗣rule-discussion or another post, btw, since these are meant to be somewhat easily searchable