#[Archived] High Seas Pre-Release Questions

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brave dawn
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I might be repeating just what the card says, but Im not sure where the confusion is

hearty bay
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That's how I read the card too. What if you have created a gold?

brave dawn
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Then the trigger doesnt trigger

viscid berry
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People are (maybe) misinterpreting how the release notes clarifies that losing 2 life is not dependent on the destruction of Loan Shark being true

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In case theres a way to prevent loan shark from being destroyed even if you havent created a gold

gritty trail
brave dawn
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Ah, I see

gritty trail
hearty bay
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The trigger always triggers because that's what triggers do, and then doesn't do anything if you've created a gold is how I view that

viscid berry
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Huh? Of course the trigger always triggers otherwise the card wouldnt do anything

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The issue is what happens when it does trigger

gritty trail
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But the notes say that no matter what, lose 2hp or discard.

hearty bay
gritty trail
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That always goes on the stack

hearty bay
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The release notes do not say that

brave dawn
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So It might like, not have the effects if you create the gold before it resolves

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But I need to read up a bit on it

hearty bay
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They just say it's regardless of whether it's destroyed. And I believe it's still all conditional on the initial condition of a gold not having been created or stolen. Like the card text says more clearly

viscid berry
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? Phantasm doesnt check when triggered, only when resolves. The same is true here, Loan Shark will always trigger in the end phase and will produce different effects based on the condition being true or not

hearty bay
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Let's not throw phantasm into the mix, the discussion would never end XD

viscid berry
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True lol

hearty bay
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Also, we're repeating ourselves here

brave dawn
junior bronze
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Yeah, the question is whether the "lose 2 life or discard a card" part always happens or if it's conditional on a gold not being created/stolen. The card text seems more like the second, the release notes arguably say it's the first

hearty bay
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.

viscid berry
brave dawn
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What I was looking for was like a Riptide situation, but I guess the card would only work like that if the "If you havent created or stolen gold" came before a "At the beginning of the end phase"

gritty trail
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Hopefully we get some clarification soon, either way.

smoky sorrel
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As I understand the release notes they just seem to clarify that you will still have to [lose life/ discard] even if loan shark was destroyed in response to the trigger/ somehow didn’t get destroyed by its own effect.

But I also did not read the entire discussion up to this point and assume someone else brought this up before. The phrasing in the notes is definitely ambiguous.

brave dawn
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Overall I agree that it just triggers, and if you havent made the gold you take the damage or discard, if you have just dont do anything

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The part where it says "regardless of destroying Loan Shark" is probably just clearing up stuff like destroying the aura while the trigger is on the stack

gritty trail
hearty bay
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It's 100% confusing

junior bronze
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I mean actually nope nvm misremembered what that new Chaos destroyed

frail vine
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This loan shark situation kinda reminds me of mark of this huntsman being flicked still marking the opponent.

junior bronze
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There's the answer

frail vine
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Nice nice. Comment still applies just seems like a familiar reminder clarification

stuck sentinel
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For loan shark....if opponent plays something that says "return aura permanent to owners hand", we would still check the gold created or stolen condition and pay 2{h} or discard a card if no gold was generated, correct?

lyric wedge
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No, loan shark triggers at the beginning of the end phase. So if you return it to your hand or it is destroyed in any other way you don't have to pay the cost

plucky hemlock
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If I have a 'Back Alley Breakline' on the top of my deck and activate 'Head Stone', will the action point be generated?
Or will the Back Alley Breakline not trigger because it was "destroyed" and not "put"?
Or is it that Back Alley Breakline is looking for the activated ability or effect of an "action card"?

whole coral
loud atlas
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Destroy simply means,
An effect keyword that means to move a card to the owner’s graveyard
or
Destroy — Destroy is a discrete effect. To destroy an object, put it into its owner’s graveyard.

weak light
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My main question here is if turn player attacks with Barbed targeting the ally and the. Pays 3 more to also target the player. Will defending player get a chance to block the damage that is coming at them? What happens they play a plus 3 pump card first? Will both attacks come in for 8 or will only the first attack come in for 8 and the second target only comes in for 5?

IMG_5278.webp IMG_5279.webp
lyric wedge
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Yes, both targets are treated as attack targets and any players controlling defending heroes can defend in the defend step (this is already covered thanks to UPF)

Screenshot_20250530-074831.png
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Each card can only defend one target though

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It is treated as a single attack with multiple targets, so any buffs will apply to both targets

Screenshot_20250530-075253.png
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(release notes)

slim edge
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is it legal for me to use full size gold tokens of other sets in HS limited ?

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PQ+ level

north thunder
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Yes

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Not flavorful but still legal

lyric wedge
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You can use a piece of paper with
"gold
Action - {r}{r}, destroy this: Draw a card. Go again
Generic token -item"
written in crayon if you want 🙂

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(I may have done this at a PQ when I left my plague tokens at home 😅)

hearty bay
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You could use a real gold bar if the rules text was engraved on it

lyric wedge
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The true flex haha

ornate geyser
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Only if its card sized

tiny lantern
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I haven't browsed through discussions here yet.
Is there a consensus on what to do about players forgetting watery grave triggers?
I imagine it can become a mess quickly by the time there's a mix of 4+ allies in grave (both discarded and from the arena)

lyric wedge
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I think just do your best to investigate which allies have been played and verify against the facedown cards in gy, apply partial fixes where needed

tiny lantern
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I figured. Painful though, especially if it ever got to a point where an ally gets looped through play twice

real iris
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Hey so I don’t know if this has been brought up or not yet because i can’t search in chat but I have a question regarding breakwater undertow. There is a current rule in place saying that allies cannot be the target of an attack reaction or activated ability but breakwater undertow specifically wants you to target the ally to give it go again. So does that mean breakwater undertow does not work as of right now?

lyric wedge
real iris
lyric wedge
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Is..your phone ok? 😅

real iris
mild valley
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either way, there is an upcoming rules change to let them function as written

real iris
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Thank you again I apologize if it was already asked

mild valley
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that's what these channels are for 🙂

lyric wedge
lyric wedge
real iris
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Will definitely do that before pre-release today

steep flicker
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Okay, I have a question concerning No Quarter.
Let's assume for argument's sake I have infinite action points to make use of for a turn, and in my graveyard are:
Wailer, Chum, and Chowder.
In my hand are two Give No Quarter, and I have a Tunic that I can use for a resource.

Am I able to sequence my turn in the following order:

  1. Play my first Give No Quarter
  2. Use Tunic for a resource to play Chum
  3. Play my second Give No Quarter
  4. Play Wailer for free
  5. Play Chowder for free

I am pretty sure this would work as No Quarter gives the discount to the next two allies you play. So after playing Chum the first No Quarter has one discount remaining, and the second one will still have both discounts after you play it. Meaning after playing Wailer the 2nd discount from the first No Quarter will be gone, but you will still have a cost reduction from the second copy you played.

I am understanding this all correctly right? 🤔

ornate geyser
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that all works

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i'll give you a cookie if you actually manage to pull it off in a real game

gritty trail
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Gravy is going to have some of the wildest pitchstacking opportunities

steep flicker
ornate geyser
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then ill keep my cookie

shut sonnet
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Can the third be played at pre release if he's pulled?

gritty trail
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Do you mean Scurv? Yes, he's legal for limited formats

mild valley
honest tundra
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does plasma mainline work with golden cogs?

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or does an item have to have a printed cost to be a target?

potent prairie
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Has to have a printed cost

honest tundra
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booooo

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thanks! hurts but I appreciate the quick response

gritty trail
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Otherwise, people would be abusing it with Hyper Drivers and Maxx

quasi spruce
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Treasure island says remove that many counters on it. So if turn 1 I attack putting a counter Treasure island and I deal 2 damage, do I not remove any because it wasn't exactly one damage?

potent prairie
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you will remove as many as you can (up to the damage dealt) and create gold equal to the number of tokens removed

quasi spruce
stuck sentinel
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  1. Snapdragon scaler work on ally attack?
  2. Does mage master boots work for summoning ally?
viral epoch
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  1. Scalers specify attack action card with cost 1 or less
  2. Yes, depending on the ally. All of Gravy's allies are non-attack action cards
vivid comet
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Can somebody point me to a rule in the CR that explains why you can't interact with face-down cards in your graveyard? I know it's in the release notes

potent prairie
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1.8.6b If the parameters of an effect include determining an object, the player can only determine public objects in the arena or on the stack as parameters for the effect, unless stated otherwise.[3.0.3] If the parameters of effect include determining a object in a public zone, the player can only determine public objects in that zone, unless stated otherwise

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face down cards are not public objects, so cannot be selected by the effect unless the effect says otherwise

vivid comet
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That covers it for choosing an object, but not for additional costs on Levia's cards though

potent prairie
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levia's additional costs are an effect cost so follow the rules for determining the parameters of an effect

stuck sentinel
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Can you use pummel with ally attack?

whole coral
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Pummel can target attack action cards and hammer/club weapon attacks

stuck sentinel
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My understanding is that an ally is not considered an attack action card. So I believe it does not work, but I see a YouTuber talking about pummel use with ally.

fluid sluice
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It wouldn't work

ornate geyser
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an ally attack is not an attack action card

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allys arent attack actions either

junior bronze
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Yeah, until and unless they print an attack action ally card(which seems unlikely), reactions like Pummel and Razor Reflex won't work on any.

lyric wedge
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Tbf we thought an attack action dagger was unlikely 😅

gritty trail
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I could see a Necromancer that throws out little 1{p} attack action cards that are allies, and can be summoned from the graveyard with a non-attack action that makes them permanents

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Recycling infantry a la Gideon the Ninth lol

junior bronze
junior bronze
karmic blade
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With Gravy Bones' ability, is playing an ally considered an instant or does it consume an action point? If it's the latter, does that mean an ally can't be played on an opponent's turn?

potent prairie
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they are still actions

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so you cannot play them on the opponents turn (at least with the current cardpool)

slim edge
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what does this card do if no cards indeck

image.png
potent prairie
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destroy itself

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because it didn't pitch a blue

junior palm
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Are watery grave allies on the stack coming from Grave targetable with invert existence? I'm assuming no, because by the time you've declared and paid the cost, they're out of the grave for resolution

mild valley
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you've got it

median mist
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Does gravy ability works when no card in deck? Gravy draw no card but still discard a card? RN said “cannot draw a card”, want to confirm no card tô draw is the same or not, thanks!

frail vine
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Drawing isn’t part of the cost so from my understanding the ability will resolve the parts that it can

ornate geyser
lilac raven
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while a player is under the effect of ripple away and hits with an attack action buffed by gold bated hook, should a gold be created (asuming nothing to seal)

ornate geyser
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If its an attack action card it creates nothing. If its an ally or weapon they do create

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Although then necro allies are action cards... Hmmm...

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let me double check that

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necro allies would not make the token

weak light
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If I use this right before my opponent's end phase when they draw back up to 4 for the turn do they have to discard 1? So as long as he's out I can essentially IP my opponent?

PXL_20250601_180317674.jpg
dire stream
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the card received a day 1 errata and the true text for the second ability now says "[...] The next time an opponent draws one or more cards this action phase, they discard a card."

honest tundra
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Can you tap a cog prior to it being destroyed to give blunderbuss go again for the turn?

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Specifically at start of turn

gritty trail
honest tundra
median dagger
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Can sticky fingers be stolen while perched?

whole coral
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My reading of the rules is yes as long as long as the stealer can equip it

median dagger
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When it goes back does it go back perched?

whole coral
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I'd rule yes if it didn't become unperched. I'm not sure how to back that up with the rules though

hearty bay
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Seems like a logical assumption without knowing the exact details for perched

whole coral
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perched isn't really the issue
It's more that "steal" specifically spells out a case for how to handle stealing an equipped object, but I can't find any reference for how to handle more generally changing the control of an equipped object

hearty bay
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it's kinda both?

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huh. If a hero with two 1H weapons tried to steal Polly, would the effect fail?

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can't find anything about how the returning of stolen objects is handled either. very interesting.

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I checked for Perched bc I wasn't sure if Perched was in the rules yet (ofc it is) and thought it might have rules for when you gain control of it. turns out, it doesn't.

whole coral
hearty bay
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yup, that's what I thought.

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Scrap the nimblism idea.

stiff moth
pseudo shore
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When enough damage is applied to destroy an ally, does the destruction go on the stack as a layer?

Example: Sawbones is attacked and killed. Can he respond to his own destruction with the damage reduction ability for later attacks before leaving play?

fluid sluice
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Ally death isn't a thing that happens as a layer

Screenshot_20250602-064546.png
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Sawbones would need to be activated before the Damage Step, which means the prevention would be applied to the damage being done to Sawbones and can't be preserved for later in the turn

weak light
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Does this trigger if Gravy uses his ability to destroy a gold token to draw a card? Or is it only if the opponent uses the pay 2 ability on the gold token?

Screenshot_20250602-082400.png
gritty trail
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It only triggers off of the activated ability on gold tokens

weak light
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That's what I thought thank you

narrow belfry
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The why is, that the drawing a card is an effect of Gravy himself. He will use a gold, but the effect is not originating from the gold

fallow shell
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Can you respond to watery grave with pass over so nuu may play it

ornate geyser
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yes, watery grave cards enter face up and then trigger to flip face down, you can respond that that trigger

inland grail
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Does Marlynn using 3oaK trigger her ability to reload once or multiple times?

fluid sluice
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Multiple times

inland grail
fluid sluice
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We have three individual events that each draw one card. Marlynn triggers every time an event instructs her to draw a card. There's no "X per turn" limitation, and the trigger doesn't say "draw one or more cards"

inland grail
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And players must draw the 3 cards first before they can be put on the stack

fluid sluice
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In the case of resolving 3oaK, yeah

main cobalt
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Can I use the once per Turn instants on the new mech attack actions while Defending a card with Phantasm to Pop it?

ornate geyser
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No the text is not active as they dont say that the work while defending

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It's the same reason why felling is not a popper

main cobalt
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Ah, so the text on Exude Confidence that restricts on attack is not necessary (anymore)?

gritty trail
ornate geyser
main cobalt
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Thanks 🙂

ornate geyser
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also the true text on exude confidence no longer has that text

viral epoch
ornate geyser
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it technically already functioned like that before its text got updated

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its true text got updated during the release of the card database

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but it functionally didnt change at all

viral epoch
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Could swear I checked sometime during reveal season and the true text was not corrected
While people were asking if cog boats could be poppers exude true text 100% specified while attacking

ornate geyser
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regardless even if it did, the text was pointless because it already worked like that because of the rules

viral epoch
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Yeah for sure, just added confusion for some people

near wraith
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I want to make sure this is right. If my opponent kills 2 allies with barbed barrage, they go to the graveyard, 2 instances of watery grave triggers. Before the triggers resolve am I allowed to play rememberance to shuffle them into my deck?

viral epoch
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Correct

dim hare
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Jolly Bludger hits and steals a Goldkiss Rum, can Puffin activate Rum to give go again to the Bludger?

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I'd assume no as Rum works on "your next action" but wanted to double check, just happened to me on Talishar and don't want to report a bug if I'm misunderstanding it

edgy cliff
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it does not work

tranquil cloak
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You are right, it isn't your next action so it can't gain go again from a newly obtained rum

dim hare
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Perfect, thanks 🙂

ornate geyser
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But stealing rum is a very piraty thing to do so good job

gusty plover
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If gravy attacks with an ally attack that has go again (like limpit) and the opponent destroys the ally with arcane damage at instant speed in layer step, does the chain close and prevent gravy from getting the action point back from go again?

gritty trail
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In the case of destroying it in the layer step, I don't think a chain link is actually created

gusty plover
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Okay. Good to know. Thanks

gritty trail
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For Limpit specifically, it's important to note that her go again is only on her attack. None of the allies have go again on the card itself.

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Doesn't really change anything regarding your question, but it's come up before so I figured I'd reiterate 🙂

real iris
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Can you run 2 off hands (example arcane lantern and compass of sunken depths) at the same time?

whole coral
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you cannot

olive wave
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Hi guys, does breaking an amulet from the board count as putting a blue into the graveyard to activate gravy?

gritty trail
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Yes

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The blue card will be destroyed and move to the graveyard

mild valley
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it flips over after the watery grave trigger resolves

gritty trail
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I keep forgetting they have water grave 😅

olive wave
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Even if flipped counts as a blue in the graveyard, got it

gritty trail
olive wave
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Perfect, thanks

steep flicker
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Speaking of Amulets....
Do heroes count as a "permanent" for the purposes of Pearl Amulet?

Pretty sure it's no, but very happy to be wrong on this one. Lol

whole coral
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1.3.3 A permanent is a card in the arena that remains there indefinitely, or until they are destroyed, banished, or otherwise removed by an effect or game rule. Hero-cards, arena-cards, and token-cards are permanents while they are in the arena. Deck-cards become permanents when they are put into the arena (but not the combat chain) and they have one of the following subtypes: Affliction, Ally, Ash, Aura, Construct, Figment, Invocation, Item, and Landmark.[2.10]

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so yes, heroes are permanents

steep flicker
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Oh damn.

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Okay, very happy to be wrong on this one 👀

upper cloud
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Sorry if this has been asked. Can you play sea floor salvage if there are no cards in either graveyard. Doesnt necessarily say target but it does say turn a card face down.

mild valley
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you can, it just won't perform that effect

upper cloud
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Thank you for quick response

empty ginkgo
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Not sure if this has been asked, but can Gravy’s compass, Puffins Polly, and quivers be target by effects such as Mangle, Frozen to Death, and Crumble to eternity?

slim mural
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yes

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well, polly is an ally, not an equipment

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so polly can't be targeted, but quivers can and the compass as well

pallid cave
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Can everbloom target scour if I have gained 1 life?

ornate geyser
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Yes x = 0 when you aren't paying for it.

cunning socket
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Hello, can The Weakest Link pull a Gravy Ally out of their hand for its on hit effect? (or the Nuu cards for that matter)

indigo plank
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If they don't have a base def value then sure.

lyric wedge
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Yeah TWL definitely can, idk the nuu cards

mild valley