#boosted spark with a crank item

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

green crater
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You have boosted, and play spark of genius to search for an item with crank.

Do you decide to crank before or after you draw a card? My assumption is after the draw because you fully resolve spark before determining any other game state decisions.

humble mango
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Crank is an identity replacement effect not a triggered ability (effectively it modifies how the item enters play) so you will have to decide to crank before you shuffle or draw.

green crater
humble mango
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correct

green crater
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I guess that isn’t quite correct, it still enters with 1. But effectively enters with 1 or 0, the decision is made as the card comes into the arena.

Because if it didn’t enter with 1, then you wouldn’t have the ability to remove 1 for crank

humble mango
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Fully technicality stuff here what actually happens is:

  • Item would enter the arena with 0 counters
  • Items effect modifies it so it would enter with 1 counter instead
  • Crank effect optionally makes it so it would enter with 0 counters instead
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these all happen while it is entering play

green crater
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Ok thank you! So do you have to order them such that it enters with a counter first, and then you crank? Is there the possibility of cranking first and not having a counter, and then entering with 1 counter?

humble mango
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no

green crater
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Of course, there is no world where you would do that. But I’m just wondering

humble mango
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there is no way to remove a counter from it when it does not have one

green crater
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Is there a ruling or written reason specifically why crnak would happen second

humble mango
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so crank does not apply until the items effect is applied

green crater
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Right but it says you may remove a counter, so you would just fail crank

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I realize this is strictly worse, but I’m just wondering if it would be possible

humble mango
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oh sure, you could choose to have crank happen first but it would do nothing. and the owner gets to choose the order of their own replacement effects

green crater
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And opponent has no way to interact to make you want to order it different, but again, just curious

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Ok cool. Ty!

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@humble mango and just to be clear, ||the answer to the FB question is D, right?||

humble mango
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section 6.5 of the CR covers replacement effects and ordering

green crater
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Thank you! And thanks for not making me wait on spoiler LOL

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@humble mango this seems like a good area of possible rules sharking. And a good example for future article/explanation.

If an opponent knows the ruling, and then calls a judge on every player immediately after they draw and before deciding to crank. The player would just miss out on cranking I guess. Would the player receive any kind of warning for attempting to crank after drawing? Since the opponent called the judge?

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Cus the opponent wouldn’t receive any kind of written warning since they are calling judge on their opponent’s error. And they could do it that way all day. Though, I guess that isn’t quite rules sharking, they are just informing their opponent of their illegal play… idk 🤷‍♂️

tardy sky
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Unless there’s a crank effect (somehow, I don’t believe that’s possible at the moment in the game engine) that impacts the top of your deck, this is one of those cases where, imo, it’s clear rules sharking since out of order execution is permissible in many common places/situations in the game where strict ordering doesn’t impact the result

icy flicker
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The main issue with this being done out of order is they have more info when deciding whether to crank or not

tardy sky
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^thats actually very valid

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And I hadn’t considered the scenario of, for example, a Dash I/O flipping an item off the top, drawing, and then that card would give them meaningful incremental advantage with an additional action point

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Or another such situation, in that case the extra information could be considered material to game decisions and thus worth bringing a judge in for

green crater