#Femtofox - Tiny, low power Linux node!

1 messages · Page 8 of 1

polar ingot
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I'm poking around the uboot docs

obsidian thorn
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So... how close is it to a new release?

mild hare
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Are you talking about a new release just for the latest version of meshtasticd?

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Afaik the next release was just to add the tun interface and the git commit is there but I didnt build a fresh image of it yet

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I think we were supposed to do it weeks ago but everyone got busy. Whatcha need?

obsidian thorn
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Was curios primary for the telemetry

mild hare
# obsidian thorn Was curios primary for the telemetry

got it. There's a bunch of people who did it here. I think it's mostly just changing the ppa branch for apt update. I havent done it yet but hopefully somebody will chime in. @twilit mountain did this already hit stable and I missed it or we still having to switch to alpha branch to get this?

mild hare
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@obsidian thorn #1329096340700921898 message

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took forever to scroll up and find it

obsidian thorn
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I saw that a while ago. Was interested in more stable version

twilit mountain
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If you're feeling frisky and want to try the Alpha releases in Ubuntu 🤓ubuntu

sudo add-apt-repository --remove ppa:meshtastic/beta
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:meshtastic/alpha
sudo apt update
sudo apt install meshtasticd

(If you find an issue please holler in #alphanauts-testing or file an issue at https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/issues/new )

twilit mountain
chrome tide
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I swear by my Samsung Evo SD Cards.. I've only corrupted 1 in the 10+ years I have been using them. They now have endurance cards also.

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Alpha life.. LOL I have 2.6.8 on my femtofox right now, I think.

nova frost
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clear the decks, so to speak?

chrome tide
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No

twilit mountain
chrome tide
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Well at least I didnt..

nova frost
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ok, so swapping to not-running-as-root doesn't require a blank slate?

chrome tide
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Nope, the vfs is copied to the new location

nova frost
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The process will take some time, so I'm asking as I go...

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ok, and I'm assuming this breaks some/all of the SFC menu stuff?

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(I will test this as I go, but I'll ask anyway)

chrome tide
nova frost
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Ok, I'll try and have a tinker tonight

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Side note: I may have set the charging current a little aggressively...

Screenshot_20250523_134431_Photos.jpg
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2.5W and it is warm

twilit mountain
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Alpha 2.6.8 still runs as root 😅

nova frost
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ok, we'll scorch that earth when we come to it

nova frost
twilit mountain
nova frost
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sudo ta -y

chrome tide
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I can work on a PR for my issue if you want..

nova frost
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only if you have time

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I'll do it wrong tonight, and OSC will fix it later

chrome tide
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LOL

mild hare
nova frost
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And some other things...

image0.jpg
lavish sorrel
chrome tide
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I need this for my car node! My wife's car has a wireless charging spot!

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I just picked up a T1000e to put in it..

quasi onyx
upper salmon
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Can the Femtofox be used as a raspi hat?

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I’m mainly thinking for power

nova frost
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I figured if you're getting them fabbed for you, you might not want all 5, or even 2 as Femtofoxen specifically, but they might be handy as a pi hat.

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Like it says on the PCB, why do one thing?

dire shuttle
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Someone said they deployed a 20W and it wasn't enough, but 30W panels cost the same as 50W panels for some reason, so I'm now seriously considering that approach. Anybody got FemtoFoxes running on solar that want to share their setups?

mild hare
dire shuttle
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Have you got some deployed on 20W and it's working out?

nova frost
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Plus the usual "location location location"

dire shuttle
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That makes sense, I just figured I can't be the first person try and run 'em off solar

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And of course insolation and duty cycle will have a big impact

nova frost
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You're probably not, but noone has come back with solid figures.

dire shuttle
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I guess nothing for it but to run some tests then

nova frost
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Try all the things!

fast adder
nova frost
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Ina219 works, at least.

nova frost
dire shuttle
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Looks like they're using a 15W panel and 3 18650s

nova frost
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Actually, from tiny tests this evening, the different RTC, aht20 and ina219 work well.

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I'm going to look at replacing the charge setting resistor with another that doesn't get so hot.

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But I'm calling it all good.

nova frost
dire shuttle
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As shipped, there's no wi-fi, right?

nova frost
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Nope.

dire shuttle
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I'm too terrible at Linux to be completely sure of that

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Okay

nova frost
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Otg adaptor and one of the favourite WiFi adaptors

dire shuttle
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I was only asking in case I needed to go turn it off

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If I can get this to run with a 20W south-facing panel instead of a 50W, that's a lot smaller visual footprint and a bunch of parts are cheaper

nova frost
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As long as the Voc is the same, the panel "size" doens't matter so much

dire shuttle
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Uh

nova frost
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If the controller can't drink it all, it just leaves it in the panel

dire shuttle
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Oh, yeah, sure

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But my area gets a lot of clouds

nova frost
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Clipping is real

dire shuttle
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Like two out of three days are cloudy

nova frost
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all the time?

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Are you in the uk?

dire shuttle
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Nah, near Seattle

nova frost
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oh, ok

dire shuttle
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I'm that yellow star

image.png
nova frost
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you guys all live next to each other. Big country, all live in the same neighbourhood

dire shuttle
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Seattle is a nerd hotspot

nova frost
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Grungy.

dire shuttle
nova frost
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Anyhoo, try your 20W panel. IDK what controller you're going for, but if it conks out, come back and hopefully by that time I'll have something more efficient to replace it with.

dire shuttle
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Amazon's got a 20W panel with a little charge controller intended for RVs for about $40

nova frost
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Ecoworthy or something like it?

chrome tide
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Have we figured out any thing on the Flash ?

chrome tide
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Are we using the dts files at all ?

upper salmon
chrome tide
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It looks like there is a device foe the flash.. I'm going to toss foxbuntu onto my mini b, and see what i can see

chrome tide
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You can't have 2 MCUs using the same pins on the radio

upper salmon
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Cool cool 🙂

dire shuttle
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I'm just now realizing that it's possible these cheap charge controllers lack MPPT

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This one even explicitly offers MPPT and non-MPPT ones at wildly different prices

image.png
mild hare
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and mppt isnt always real mppt and instead is pwm.

chrome tide
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Shit, is there a way for me to access the luckfox via it's own USB port ?

mild hare
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And I havent messed with that since first week of owning a pico

chrome tide
mild hare
chrome tide
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Yes

mild hare
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usb serial with pins on uart2

chrome tide
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I burnt foxbuntu to a SD card and put it into the luckfox pico mini b

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Shitty.. LOL I have to order usb serial adapters, all the ones I had don't work in win10/11 anymore..

mild hare
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oh wait

chrome tide
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Guess it's time for a drink.. 😉

mild hare
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you got an eth cable to sacrifice for the cause??

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bro, the 5 pins.

chrome tide
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I can spools of cat5/6.. 😉

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I just don't have a switch in my living room.. LOL

mild hare
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but do you know where your crimpers are?

chrome tide
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With RJ45 ends also.. ;P

mild hare
chrome tide
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I need to solder that 5 pin header onto this guy anyways..

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I am married.. LOL

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To be single again... LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mild hare
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TIL flexible PCBs are basically copper coated kapton tape.

forest current
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oh wait no this one doesnt have an ina yet... can someone remind me, thats working now on the latest meshtasticd right?

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if so ill wire one up

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and a bme280 as well

dire shuttle
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6W should be way too low. I forgot to put mine on battery last night for testing though, boo.

forest current
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i mean given the math it should be just fine, with just the 22db wio radio and no wifi

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but we will see in realworld testing soon enough

mild hare
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And are we talking wifi on or off?

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Femtofox was meant to run with wifi turned on when needed. I mean people have different use cases but when @fiery finch and others after her measured ~0.3w that's when we started partying. (meant for all, not Josh, he knows lol)

gentle niche
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Hey, just saw this project and I was wondering if anyone has done any testing on the 1W advantage over the standard 0.12W boards

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In terms of range

mild hare
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Yup. Gains are real. Couple people needed cavity filters because of their area though.

gentle niche
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Nice, yeah I see the spec sheet mentions a built in LNA so maybe it's a little too sensitive for urban areas.

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cavity filter wouldn't be ideal especially for a mobile node. Would be interesting to see a side by side comparison with RSSI/LSNR data points just to see where the low wattage devices drop out and how much further this 1W module can go

mild hare
forest current
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Which has a use case (offgrid edge compute, etc) but also helps serve as a baseline for scalability

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For example
Tinyfox: 6W
Smolfox (wifi): 8W
Femtofox Pro: 18W

Or whatever

mild hare
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and tinyfox uses 22dbm so easier to power.

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btw, ble hci serial console is underrated (but firmware upgrades would suck)

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@forest current I forget, what panel you using on your tinyfox?

forest current
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Then when all models/capabilities are tested for realworld power metrics people can choose per their constraints

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Sorry last message didnt send lol

forest current
mild hare
forest current
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6

mild hare
forest current
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Yup

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the wifi dongle has since been removed and ill be adding the ina today but here it is

2025-02-20-21-47-48-573.jpg
quasi onyx
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ooo nice

dire shuttle
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That means at 4x power you get 2x range and at 16x power you get 4x range

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So basically twice as far

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I just put my FemtoFox on a 10Ah battery pack. It does not have a WiFi dongle attached but is on Ethernet

nova frost
polar ingot
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these "cards" do work for booting/running rasperry pi, confirmed on a zero 2 w, so we should be able to get them to work on the luckfox

restive scarab
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Smolfox I was seeing ~.3W w/o WiFi dongle

nova frost
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I've got some WiFi modules on test rn that are 0.3w. Not all are equal...

restive scarab
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for sure, I just meant overall smolfox is like .3W and doesn't take the 650ma or whatever hit femto w/E30S does during xmit

chrome tide
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Femtofox #2 arrived..

chrome tide
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Swapped out the mini a for my mini b.. 😉

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Doesn't look like foxbuntu is registering the flash device..

gentle niche
chrome tide
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Time to put daily onto the new femtofox..

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Hmm... I should prolly configure everything I need w/ femto-config before I do that..

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I need to get started ont he PR for that also..

dire shuttle
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Unless you have a 1 watt transmitter on the far side

mild hare
nova frost
dire shuttle
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I'm putting up loud nodes for infrastructure but each of them is getting a cavity filter and I mostly just need the power for reliable backhaul

nova frost
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Yeah, we occasionally talk about synchronising BBSs

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decent compression would help there 😉

gentle niche
nova frost
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Overall, Meshtastic longfast has something like 150db of "link budget". Adding 8db for the amped node, and another 6 for a fancy antenna is a 10% improvement.

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Not nothing, but not as much as you might think.

gentle niche
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Yes, and with real world testing the range difference between medium slow (150.5db) and long fast (153db) is very minimal. Technically it's about a 33% range increase but from my testing it was maybe 5-10%

iron horizon
nova frost
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yeah, yeah, tell me that when it isn't after midnight ;P

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ok, a link budget of 153db and 167db equates to about a 4-fold increase in range, in an isotropic sphere.

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Real-feel improvement is that its maybe that much better sometimes

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I don't think of it in terms of range improvement, so much as "reducing the impact of other stuff affecting my reception".

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So you can hug your tracker node that much closer, and it still works, etc.

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Anyway, it's late and I'm getting sentimental.

gentle niche
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Yeah, for example say I'm using a standard SX1262 22db and in a LOS application I get 20km range. Now in a urban area I'm only seeing 1.5km. How much effective range in the urban environment would I see with the extra 8db 1W module?

gentle niche
dire shuttle
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I plugged in my FemtoFox to a 10Ah battery pack this morning at 9AM. It is 5:50PM and the pack reads 89%, so it's consumed a nominal 1,100mAh in 8.8h for an average draw of 125mA. That's no wi-fi but plugged into Ethernet

gentle niche
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Obviously there's a lot of factors at play as to why the range would be decreased, but I'm thinking in general if the theoretically range is more then doubled how that would apply

nova frost
dire shuttle
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Yes

nova frost
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3db = 2x power

dire shuttle
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10dB = 10x

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#logarithms

nova frost
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soo.... 8db = 2.7ish 4.something IDK anymore

dire shuttle
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No, it adds multiplicatively

gentle niche
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Which is pretty massive improvement

dire shuttle
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If you're un-dB-ing it

nova frost
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6db = 4x

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9db = 8x

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ug

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brane no work

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every 3db you're doubling the input current

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but the sphere of constant radiation expands by root2

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the very definition of diminishing returns

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🙃

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Anyway, 22db and 30db seem reasonable benchmarks for performance

gentle niche
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Yeah considering 30db is legally max limit.... assuming no cable losses and 0db antenna

nova frost
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The last voltage reading from the ina219 was an ominous 3.69V

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LVCO is set to ~3v

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so it must have crashed pretty hard.

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anyway, the whole lot hit about 45degrees when I was charging at 600mA

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🔥

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next quest will be to fit a 3000mAh 18650 and take it for a walk.

gentle niche
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For battery monitoring make sure your wire leads are thick enough. I noticed about 80mv drop on some of the dinky wires the cheap 18650 holders come with. 80mv might not seem like a lot but for a Li-Ion it's about 15% (depending on the voltage curve)

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Also the BMS mosfets can skew the readings as well, espically if you're pulling a couple amps through them

dire shuttle
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FemtoFox into a 6dB is perfect

gentle niche
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hmmm didn't know that, thought the 1W limit was EIRP

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I'm in Canada but ISED follows the FCC regulations

dire shuttle
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Nah, the CFRs are impossible to read

gentle niche
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Yeah I'm doubling checking now and see exactly what you're saying

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Good to know thx for the correction

dire shuttle
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FWIW, my fox is in a decently active network, but is only sending 3-5 messages per hour. It's at 88% at 6:40, so I'm going to pull it from Ethernet and see how much of a difference that makes

gentle niche
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You might find the power consumption lowers from the estimated 125mAh as a lot of times dropping from 100% to say 90% battery isn't linear to the actually capacity. I've found that a lot of the cheaper cells will drop quickly on the top and bottom end and they don't follow the standard Li-Ion voltage curve very well

dire shuttle
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... without Ethernet, FemtoFox is no longer drawing enough power to keep my power bank on

gentle niche
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It's powered over USB-C right?

dire shuttle
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Yeah, but I don't think it's negotiating PD

gentle niche
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nah, but if you have a power bank that is PD then it'll properly identify a device is connected and keep the power on even at low levels

dire shuttle
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This one is PD and it is not doing that

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I know it's PD because it'll power the PA in a G2

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I bet there's a 100mA cutoff and dropping Ethernet means it goes below that by some margin

gentle niche
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To get around that issue, I've added current pulse circuits to boards where every couple seconds it pulls 100mAh for a few ms to keep the power bank alive. There pre made boards out there. Search up "USB keep alive" or something

dire shuttle
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It's only relevant right now because the power bank made a decent way to test this.

gentle niche
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I've used anker PD power banks on some super low powered boards and they stay alive

dire shuttle
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My 40Ah Anker does not match that behavior, sadly

gentle niche
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hmmm is it an IQ3 port?

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I've used both the anker nano and power core 3 and they stay alive

dire shuttle
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IQ2

gentle niche
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Or just send more packets lol

dire shuttle
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Oh, it's got IQ2 and IQ3

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Huh

gentle niche
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idk what the difference is, but the one I have shows IQ3

dire shuttle
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Downside is that This thing will take forever to drain measurably at <100mA and it only reads out in 10% increments

gentle niche
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yeah, shouldn't be hard to readout the raw voltage

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I haven't really looked into the firmware/software you guys are running yet

dire shuttle
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Here's my math again. I thought I'd found an error, but it wasn't.

image.png
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FemtoFox runs FoxBuntu, a stripped down Ubuntu distro

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meshtasticd handles the meshy stuff

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Mine's also running spudgunman's Meshing Around bot

dire shuttle
# gentle niche hmmm is it an IQ3 port?

This seems to have made the difference. Now I just have to wait 64 hours for it to probably pull two pips off the charge... I need a better tool for this 😐

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And/or, it's just way more power efficient than I thought

gentle niche
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20W is plenty but the battery could be larger

dire shuttle
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Maybe. That's already assuming that the panel only works at 50% efficiency

gentle niche
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This is assume the panel is at 0%, some sort of doomsday scenario lol

dire shuttle
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I live in the PNW, our climate is already doomsday for solar

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They say that you can use Mt Rainier to predict the weather

gentle niche
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hahahah

dire shuttle
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If you can see it, it's about to rain. If you can't see it, it's because it's already raining.

gentle niche
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lol yeah the west coast is a little wet eh

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I guess that's not technically the coast but close enough lol

dire shuttle
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About an hour west of me is a temperate rainforest

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Okay, revision two (deleted)

gentle niche
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Yeah that looks good dude. I thought that battery was 10Ah at 3.6v hence only a couple day runtime without solar

dire shuttle
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Revision 3 because you make a good point

image.png
dire shuttle
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I didn't notice this at first, but if this is right, each 18650 is exactly 1 day of runtime. That's a neat coincidence

nova frost
# dire shuttle Revision 3 because you make a good point

I'll make a couple of points:

  1. Thanks for doing this. I'm doing similar tests, but my (personal area 😭) mesh is not busy enough to count.
  2. Assuming the Anker is feeding at a constant 5Vout, the current drawn from the batteries will have been lower from (e.g.) 4.2-4v than 3.2-3v. I'm not 100% sure that's not already taken care of, tho.
  3. Re: not being enough power to keep the bank powering on the iq2 port, I feel like it's passed some kind of shibboleth 😄
  4. It only has the 5.1k cc resistors, it doesn't identify smartly any other way. Unfortunately PD ID ICs are a bit expensive compared to the audience that would benefit.
warm basalt
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nvm just got caught up, i assume this is not published somewhere yet

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RTL8188FTV Wireless WIFI Module With IPEX Block for Linux Android USB Interface 2.4GHz BL-M8188FU3

S100b4aa240e543ffb230f32e9e1d13604.png
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lol, LCSC stocks the RTL8188FTV, the supporting component count looks stupid low that you could just PCBA it

nova frost
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Well, it's borderline

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And double sided assembly costs...

nova frost
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I have been looking for a reliable source, instead of trying one and then getting a batch in.

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And I'm trying to find a lower power module. The usb stick I've got goes down to 25mA when disabled

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These ones kind of just hover at 70mA whatever.

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Which is ok, actually.

dire shuttle
# nova frost I'll make a couple of points: 1) Thanks for doing this. I'm doing similar tests,...

I'm glad to help. There's a fair amount of self-interest here since I'm going to deploy two of these as solar nodes away from my house. The smaller the panel and the smaller the battery I can get away, smaller the visual footprint, and the happier people will be.

I'm measuring the current from the charge state of the pack. If battery packs are measured at anything other than 3.7 volts of a lipo cell, manufacturers would be missing out on an opportunity to inflate their capacity 😅

warm basalt
#

though that'll mean managing usb power from gpio (though i think a board DTS can do this)...

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Or a solderjumper 😄 seems like people who care about wifi power consumption probably just want to completely disable wifi while on a solar deployment (i doubt they would even populate wifi on a solar install?)

warm basalt
nova frost
warm basalt
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unassociated power consumption is 90ish mA on the dualband, 120mA on the 2.4GHz wifi+bt. ebyte has enable pin exposed on the pinout

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in the case of the wifi and bt module they have separate enable pins

nova frost
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Ooh, that's interesting

warm basalt
warm basalt
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tho i guess you mean dual sided to fit on your pcb

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i think the aliexpress module is one of thosefootprints the end user can DIY solder haha

S0c6970f14596440db3f85b38fc579fb6G.png
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now i gotta buy a luckfox pico mini 🤣 held off for long enough

nova frost
warm basalt
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it would be funny if you could fit the rtl8188ftv in the same space as the magjack footprint

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literally forcing the choice between eth and wifi

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oh wait, @nova frost is USB only available via type-C OTG and not on pins? damn, no point in making a pcb for onboard wifi then

gentle niche
warm basalt
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this is referring to the wifi modules, not the E22

gentle niche
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Oops

warm basalt
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i guess combine these 🥲

type-c-pcb-board-pinout.png Saf92427ceb3e41808b4bac82c8a074c53.png
opaque abyss
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cant you connect some wifi chipsets via SPIO?

warm basalt
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SDIO not on the pins of the luckfox either

warm basalt
opaque abyss
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I think I meant SDIO and typed SPIO because I type SPI a lot

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too many acronyms in hardware

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got me all crosseyed

warm basalt
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i might go for a nanopi neo air then

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been meaning to mess with meshtasticd for ages

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or just give up on wifi and run a long eth cable 😄

nova frost
opaque abyss
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I think if you can make the pico ultra work theres some gpu support

warm basalt
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the femtofox feels like the right set of equipment haha

opaque abyss
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did anyone ever find a usb-c wifi card that works with the femtofox?

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do those even exist

nova frost
opaque abyss
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MUI :)

nova frost
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Feels like a job for a Meshtab 😉

opaque abyss
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I tried mui with my t-hmi from the fox but never got it figured out

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not sure if meshtasticd can output proto to the uart header, and I dont have a serial adapter to verify that

quasi onyx
opaque abyss
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meshtab looks so cool

quasi onyx
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😅

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thx

nova frost
quasi onyx
nova frost
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Stick the fox in a high place, WiFi, Meshtab, take it for a spin (maybe)

quasi onyx
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hahahaha

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i mean meshtab worsk xd

nova frost
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Meshtab via UDP 😄

quasi onyx
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mmmm

mild hare
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@warm basalt I made a mistake on these a bit back. This is probably where Tom mentions magnet wire. They are on a shelf, dusty at the moment.

IMG_20250318_172354_847.jpg
chrome tide
mild hare
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"fox tail"

chrome tide
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Uhh..

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Ok

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OH! It's missing the module that goes on the bottom side ?

mild hare
chrome tide
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Oh man!

gentle niche
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Just splice all your USB cables.... easy fix lol

mild hare
#

@chrome tide 🎶 blackbird sings in the dead of night 🎶

chrome tide
# mild hare <@712726191764930631> 🎶 blackbird sings in the dead of night 🎶

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u843TjUrkTY

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mild hare
# chrome tide https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u843TjUrkTY

https://youtu.be/x2vQAX3hudg

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quasi onyx
#

magnet wire :)

dire shuttle
tulip bolt
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I'm having trouble getting my bme680 to work with my femtofox. I'm sure I must be doing something wrong but I can't figure out what.
I have it connected to the I2C-1 JST-4pin, enabled I2C in femto-config, and uncommented I2C in config.yaml, enabled environment metrics in meshtastic. But it's not showing up. Any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks

nova frost
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Iirc, bme680 is on the to-do list, but bme280 and bmp280 do work.

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Something about a closed-source binary blob with the translation table in it.

tulip bolt
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I wish I had another version to test, but I only have the 680.

neon sandal
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Each i2c device must hav e a unique address so any other i2c could interfere.

chrome tide
#

BME680 does not work w/ meshtasticd right now. I'm sending Jonathan 2 BME680s this week. Post office was closed yesterday, and they are closed Monday..

#

The 680 is x77

#

You should see on meshtasticd startup, that the BME680 is detected, but there are some updates that are needed for 680 to work.. 280 will work w/o issues right now tho.

#

I've done extensive testing w/ Jonathan on this..

tulip bolt
#

Thanks for the explanation. I thought more sensor info = more better. I should have grabbed some 280's too.
Thanks for working on getting this sensor working.

chrome tide
#

This is what you will see. This is from my rPI, but same thing..

May 25 15:05:53 rpi-meshadv meshtasticd[1356]: INFO  | 15:05:01 0 Use /dev/i2c-1 as I2C device
May 25 15:05:53 rpi-meshadv meshtasticd[1356]: INFO  | 15:05:01 0 Running without TFT display!
May 25 15:05:53 rpi-meshadv meshtasticd[1356]: INFO  | 15:05:01 0 Scan for i2c devices
May 25 15:05:53 rpi-meshadv meshtasticd[1356]: INFO  | 15:05:01 0 Device found at address 0x32 was not able to be enumerated
May 25 15:05:53 rpi-meshadv meshtasticd[1356]: INFO  | 15:05:01 0 Device found at address 0x75 was not able to be enumerated
May 25 15:05:53 rpi-meshadv meshtasticd[1356]: INFO  | 15:05:01 0 BME680 found at address 0x77
tulip bolt
#

Indeed, that's what I see. Thanks for the explanation.

chrome tide
#

So 2.6.9 is broken right now for native linux..

warm basalt
#

Interesting, any reason not to use a male plug? If female, there is a footprint that turns the PCB itself into the female connector if you order with the right thickness (0.6mm)

image0.jpg
mild hare
warm basalt
mild hare
#

wasting away on my thinkpad. been super busy. Re-doing my entire shop rn.

#

@warm basalt before I forget, a while back I built two versions of your ikoka nanos. Ty for that.

warm basalt
mild hare
chrome tide
#

Who's good w/ foxbuntu ?

mild hare
#

I keep saying I'm busy/working on shop etc. I should probably explain since I just disappear sometimes and not eyeball deep in git and femto image.
So because tariffs, I bought a fiber laser, giant cnc (with all the things) and pcb fabbing stuff (uv ink, silk screen, etc etc). All this gear is requiring me to basically rebuild the inside of shop. And then I gotta learn and tune everything. Aint nobody gonna reach into my pocket or stop me getting pcbs. I'm over it. So if I am a bit ghosty, that's why. Just know I'm building a proper "lair" and amazing stuff will be happening down the road.
This is normal for me, somebody says I cant and I say hold my beer.

chrome tide
upper salmon
#

<unlimited power Palpatine gif> @mild hare

mild hare
chrome tide
#

I got a 500x500x500 3D Printer.. ;P WTF, 1300mmx1300mm... LOL I guess SIZE does matter.. HAHAHAHAHA

chrome tide
twilit mountain
chrome tide
#

But @twilit mountain has fix it, and I've already tested and confirmed it's working..

chrome tide
#

I need some help getting the NAND Flash to be registered as a device.

#

There is a DTS file for luckfox pico mini b, and it should be accessible if we can figure out how to get it registered..

quasi onyx
mild hare
quasi onyx
#

well kinda 😅 i have 3 left 🤣 and 1 has the promicro wrong way lol

#

ill be ordering 10 more soon

mild hare
#

Some people come here just because 30dbm and I keep wanting to mention washtastic. Femto is about linux, 30db is side effect.

quasi onyx
#

haha

#

V0.4 is gonna be more mobile friendly ish since it has integrated nrf52 and i can tap into the 5V rail

chrome tide
mild hare
#

Yerba mate is what got shelves installed and totes filled today. Trying to do a table but it's awkwardly big. 8'x8'.

chrome tide
mild hare
#

1300mm bro...

#

And I figure can put printers next to it

chrome tide
#

I get that, I'm saying build the base that way, then put your single 8x8 top on them.

mild hare
#

building is np. just making it fit.

#

gutting shop

chrome tide
#

ah

#

I don't have a shop..

#

I tried to get a tuff shed in the back yard, but wife freaked out on how much it would cost overall, and shut that idea down..

#

Don't encourage her.. I can't stand being in the garage, when it's 110f in there, during the summer..

#

It's already getting 90-100 in there..

#

So foxbuntu has that same file, w/ the same section at line 17.. What's blocking us from being able to access it ?

dire shuttle
dire shuttle
quasi onyx
dire shuttle
#

If there's a stable release at some point, I would definitely be interested. I would probably work with other PugetMesh folks and do a batch order of twenty or something

quasi onyx
#

v0.3.5 has been tested and i have one currenly in use and got no issues

#

V0.4 will be tested once i got money to do that 😅

#

so if u want to make an order get 0.3.5

dire shuttle
#

Rough idea on the cost each?

quasi onyx
#

for 10 its about 25€ and with promicro about 30€ not including manual labor and re selling costs etc

mild hare
#

@quasi onyx I know this is the femto promotion channel, but I'm passive aggressively pluggin you just so people know they dont gotta go linux. Like ikoka is a thing too. I preach linux because I want anything to be possible, but maybe that's not what all people need. Hope that makes sense. thx choom 😉

quasi onyx
#

ye ye :)

#

just point ppl to me xd tho shipping to usa is a different thing 😅

mild hare
# chrome tide Then there is this also.. https://github.com/LuckfoxTECH/luckfox-pico/blob/d2da6...

so dude, in femtofox repo is a dts and defconf. We designed them speficially for our setup. And the foxbuntu script builds with these specifcally. Like at lunch menu, gotta be 1,0,1. You totally could use winmerge or meld to merge in changes from the pico b. Or just hack it up by hand. But I dont got time to be this guy rn. Merging into the foxbuntu dts and defconf is probably the easiest path. Or merging our stuff into the pico b dts and defconf and choosing 2(?) from the menu instead of one. Hope thats helpful.

#

pretty sure those two files are what you are after

chrome tide
#

I THINK we need to define CONFIG_MTD_RAW_NAND

mild hare
#

and then using the kernel build menu option should pop an image with your changes

mild hare
chrome tide
#

yerba mate ? I'm drinking Sailor Jerry and RootBeer.. LOL

mild hare
#

I dont drink anymore and turned to the yerba mate path when I had the kids. 10 hour shift and had to br super dad. Tastes terrible, citrus juice helps. Coffee is trash except that first cup in the morning.

#

I realy should start saying hold my juice box instead of hold my beer lol

#

ok, back to lair building. Meld is amazing! And winmerge is similar for windows peeps.

#

compare tools for seeing whats what and one click merging

chrome tide
#

What does this error mean ?

Updated rootfs size from stock (6G) to 100G.
== blkenvflash 0.0.1 ==
writing to /home/will/luckfox-pico/foxbuntu.img
   mmcblk1: env.img size:32,768/32K (offset:0/0B) imgsize:32,768 (32K)
   mmcblk1: idblock.img size:524,288/512K (offset:32,768/32K)
ERROR: 'idblock.img' not found
done.
foxbuntu.img build completed.
mild hare
#

does ~/foxbuntu/output/image/idblock.img exist?

#

if not, pick Enter and Modify chroot from menu and just type exit when presented with root prompt and let it build

chrome tide
mild hare
#

Is that file there?

#

My machines arent on. Is this modified or stock? 1,0,1?

chrome tide
#

I don't have a foxbuntu folder.. :\

mild hare
#

oooh

#

that's no bueno

#

did you choose install sdk first?

chrome tide
#

Yes

#

I'm running through that again, and this is what I'm getting right now..

You're building on Linux
  Lunch menu...pick the Luckfox Pico hardware version:
  选择 Luckfox Pico 硬件版本:
                [0] RV1103_Luckfox_Pico
                [1] RV1103_Luckfox_Pico_Mini_A
                [2] RV1103_Luckfox_Pico_Mini_B
                [3] RV1103_Luckfox_Pico_Plus
                [4] RV1103_Luckfox_Pico_WebBee
                [5] RV1106_Luckfox_Pico_Pro
                [6] RV1106_Luckfox_Pico_Max
                [7] RV1106_Luckfox_Pico_Ultra
                [8] RV1106_Luckfox_Pico_Ultra_W
                [9] RV1106_Luckfox_Pico_Pi
                [10] RV1106_Luckfox_Pico_Pi_W
                [11] RV1106_Luckfox_Pico_86Panel
                [12] RV1106_Luckfox_Pico_86Panel_W
                [13] custom
Which would you like? [0~13][default:0]: 2
[build.sh:error] Error: HW_INDEX is not a number.
mild hare
#

gotta be 1,0,1 unless you do your own voodoo.

chrome tide
#

nvm, got past that error

#

I did 2,0,0

mild hare
#

godspeed

chrome tide
#

I'm using a Mini B, trying to get the NAND Flash to be a device that can be accessed.

mild hare
#

i know

chrome tide
#

And adding RK NAND Device Support

#

Not sure if I need to add anything else..

mild hare
#

btw, your goody show up?

chrome tide
#

I didn't check the mail yesterday, so one might have. other says 27th..

chrome tide
#

Oh wait.. The femtofox was delivered on sat.. So the goodies will be here Tuesday..

chrome tide
#

@quasi onyx You be quiet.. ;P LOL

quasi onyx
#

What did i do now?

chrome tide
quasi onyx
#

whaat

#

no way

chrome tide
#

working on installing 2.6.10..

chrome tide
#

Finally got it, I think..

Creating final sdcard img...
Updated rootfs size from stock (6G) to 100G.
== blkenvflash 0.0.1 ==
writing to /home/will/luckfox-pico/foxbuntu.img
   mmcblk1: env.img size:32,768/32K (offset:0/0B) imgsize:32,768 (32K)
   mmcblk1: idblock.img size:524,288/512K (offset:32,768/32K) imgsize:188,416 (184K)
   mmcblk1: uboot.img size:262,144/256K (offset:0/0B) imgsize:262,144 (256K)
   mmcblk1: boot.img size:33,554,432/32M (offset:0/0B) imgsize:3,602,944 (3,602,944B)
   mmcblk1: oem.img size:536,870,912/512M (offset:0/0B) imgsize:28,622,848 (27,952K)
   mmcblk1: userdata.img size:268,435,456/256M (offset:0/0B) imgsize:9,999,360 (9,765K)
   mmcblk1: rootfs.img size:107,374,182,400/100G (offset:0/0B) imgsize:154,361,856 (150,744K)
done.
foxbuntu.img build completed.
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 994041856 May 26 01:41 /home/will/luckfox-pico/foxbuntu.img
188M    /home/will/luckfox-pico/foxbuntu.img
nova frost
nova frost
# warm basalt Interesting, any reason not to use a male plug? If female, there is a footprint ...

I've seen this trick before on the original NiceNano development boards - if you look in the branches of Jorics repo, you can find them. I think the conclusion was that 0.8mm is fine if you use ENIG, but longevity just ain't there, and you're at the mercy of your PCB maker. SMD sockets (including the harder-to-find "wing" ones that don't have so many locating holes) are cheap, and once you bite the $3 loading fee they come in really handy.

#

I was initially scared of them because they have the equivalent pin pitch of the nasty connectors, and wouldn't play nicely with hand assembly, but the locating pegs are good on them, and you just have to be careful with the calibrated blobs of solder paste.

warm basalt
nova frost
#

You can still fit 0603 cc resistors inside the wings of the wide one, so it's not wasted space.

warm basalt
nova frost
#

Oh, yeah, kicad...

#

Export from EasyEDA?

warm basalt
#

well, in small quantities i don't save that much... hm

chrome tide
warm basalt
#

so, i just need a 3.3V LDO, a 40MHz crystal and a pi network for the antenna... and ground plane

image.png
#

doesn't seem to difficult XD

nova frost
#

Micro wifi?

warm basalt
#

rtl8188ftv, yeah

quasi onyx
#

mmmm tiny

nova frost
#

This is awesome!

nova frost
#

hmmm

warm basalt
#

the modules claim 260mA current during Tx, wondering if an ams1117 is really necessary (takes up space) or if i can cram 2x SOT-23-3L LDOs haha

warm basalt
nova frost
#

is it?

#

hmm

warm basalt
#

yeah about 2x the width of the pcb

nova frost
#

MIC5504-3.3 can do 300mA continuous, and TLV75533PDBVR can do 500mA

#

both SOT23-5

#

both only need 1uF x2

warm basalt
#

actually, i should really just hand assemble these XD

nova frost
#

are you making them single-sided?

warm basalt
#

sot23 looking pretty huge now eh

image.png
#

i think i should chuck those on the back, they are so easy to hand solder anw

nova frost
#

plus the ceramics, plus the shunts?

#

there's a 0.1ohm 1206 in basic

warm basalt
#

the antenna matching stuff will have to go in front, i just havent gotten around to them

twilit mountain
nova frost
#

x2

warm basalt
nova frost
#

how much matching do you need?

warm basalt
#

probably none if i want it to work, but probably some if that antenna is gonna get a chance at actually working well haha

#

datasheet has suggested matching

image.png
#

lol the ams1117 in comparison

image.png
#

maybe ap2112k-3.3, iirc it is quite popular

nova frost
warm basalt
#

i think the datasheet recommendation is compensation for the antenna itself rather than the traces

#

interesting, not many male usb-c for single sided smd

twilit mountain
nova frost
#

Yep, still trying to find it. I'm on mobile...

nova frost
warm basalt
#

ok fully questioning my sanity now

image.png
#

surely it can be made single sided...

image.png
iron horizon
#

There is nothing on this board, if your LDO is decent a handful of caps is all you should need
Reference schematics are conservative

#

Also I would work on your RF path, this doesn't look 50 ohms impedance altho it's so short it will very likely still work

#

Lastly you can replace the crystal with a crystal resonator, ~8cents more expensive but remove the need to tune the load capacitor (and the load capacitors)

nova frost
warm basalt
warm basalt
#

40 mHz though...

warm basalt
#

forgot to mention, it's a 0.8mm pcb since that's what the molex connector wants

image.png
#

oops took the screenshot before it loaded

image.png
nova frost
warm basalt
#

oh dear god haha, 0.5494mm is nuts. i gotta reduce the ground plane pour separation

warm basalt
# nova frost Molex?

oh the usb-c connector is molex p/n 1054440011, i don't mean any other kind of molex conn sorry

nova frost
#

It should be included on SS economic assembly

#

Or are you going for a fancy edge-mount one?

warm basalt
#

Nah, not the one you gave me. I think I'll give the usb connector swap a go tomorrow. Gotta sleep on this a bit

nova frost
#

Yeah, getting late

warm basalt
#

if only CC resistors could negotiate 3.3V 🤣

quasi onyx
#

only if all usb c ports knew how to give different voltages 🙃

warm basalt
#

i realized also, the decoupling may be necessary, just saw the pinout of the rtl8188ftv has 1.2v broken out to a pin from the internal ldo, i assume it's for some decoupling

#

the extra* decoupling

#

the available datasheet (leaked of course) has no info about the reference implementation/suggested schematic of course

quasi onyx
#

lol

warm basalt
#

now all this project needs is a name...

quasi onyx
#

all the things we do to make stuff small 🤣

warm basalt
#

"nobody-should-need-this"

quasi onyx
#

nobody should have never made this 🤣

warm basalt
#

back to the forest to play with IoT tomorrow.. g'nite and thanks for the feedback, i'll sleep on it and see what i can do tomorrow

dire shuttle
#

I got tired of ridiculous attempts to measure the FemtoFox with my giant powerbank and got a USB multimeter

#

With Ethernet, it's pulling about 115mA
Without Ethernet, it's pulling 95mA

chrome tide
#

w/ Wifi ?

dire shuttle
#

It doesn't have wi-fi stock, I haven't even looked into how to do that

chrome tide
#

And is that idle, or transmit ?

dire shuttle
#

I kind of want to just so I can get the numbers

chrome tide
#

Just plug it into the USB-C port on the luckfox

#

but it has to be one of the supported chipsets..

dire shuttle
#

That's idle. Transmits are too fast to catch reliably, but they do show the current going up to around 600mA. I'm on MediumFast, so it's a very brief spike

#

Yep, I think transmit draw is 600mA-ish

#

In general, I think we're looking at 0.5W idle and 3W transmit

#

.492W * 24h = 11.8Wh, which is pretty darn close to the 11Wh I was estimating based off of battery consumption

#

I don't have any USB-C wi-fi dongles, but I would be surprised if they didn't double the draw. I can test one separately, I suppose

chrome tide
#

I have one I use for testing.

nova frost
dire shuttle
#

I have a couple around, then. I just have to sort through until I find a Wi-Fi adapter that is on the chipset list

nova frost
#

Try em all. The only ones of mine that didn't work were already iffy on a Windows machine.

#

#saveitforparts

#

#thenforgetthatitdoesntwork

opaque abyss
#

Oh I know that guy

twilit mountain
#

@chrome tide the udev fix for Ubuntu gpio perms made it into the daily builds 👍 (finally finished after a million retries, stupid PPA)

chrome tide
#

If I wanted to revert the changes to test out the new deb package, do I just delete the rules file, and remove the group stuff ?

#

and reboot before updating of course..

twilit mountain
#

You can just delete that custom rules file you made and the packaging will do the rest

nova frost
twilit mountain
dire shuttle
#

USB multimeter says I've been running FemtoFox on Ethernet for 7h and 44m and it's used 4.35Wh

#

That works out to .56W

dense latch
dense latch
nova frost
#

Honestly, it's very hard to find anything lower power.

#

If you look closely at the Luckfox Pico mini, you'll see not-very-much, because any extras take more power.

#

In a similar vein, I've noticed a small difference in power consumption between the different WiFi modules, which means I'm going to have to reorder. This will delay the Tiny going on sale by about a week.

chrome tide
chrome tide
#

Now to wire up rotary, and OLED..

opaque abyss
#

That print came out great

chrome tide
#

Who has info on how to wire up the rotary dial..

chrome tide
mild hare
#

Only 5 printed by me in the wild. Alley made some good changes for next batch. My shop is in pieces still so gonna be a minute before I can do more.

#

I think the STLs are in the beta channel at her discord

chrome tide
#

How do you think this resin will do in high heat ?

mild hare
surreal iron
#

Oh, I didn't realize you guys just had the same conversation over here!

chrome tide
chrome tide
#

@nova frost Are pins 49-51 in use ?

#

Hmm, looks like they goto radio.. :\

warm basalt
#

SLA?

mild hare
#

@warm basalt

warm basalt
#

Video isn’t loading for me because i’m in rural indonesia, what printer is that?

mild hare
#

Photon Mono X 6ks with a bunch of love and technique

#

If you ever go down this road, hit me up in the enclosures channel and I can share details.

warm basalt
mild hare
#

Vents into carbon filter. Always mask. Always gloves.

upper salmon
#

Got my FemtoFox a day early! Thank you @mild hare 🥰🥰🥰

polar ingot
#

finally climbed the ladder and pulled my acting weird fox down. any ideas how I can fsck the sd since linux see it as "unallocated" with a fox image?

chrome tide
#

@polar ingot You should be able to mount it..

#

It's ext4

dire shuttle
#

Unlike FDM printers that use thermoplastics, resin printers are UV cured and mostly shrug at heat

#

Note that PLA's is listed as 50C / 122F, which is well below the expected temperature of a car in even 80F weather

screen-shot-2023-07-24-at-3-51-38-pm.png
opaque abyss
#

At minimum I use petg for car prints. If possible, ASA or PC

#

And with petg I only use white. Black petg will probably fail in the sun

chrome tide
#

I have some clear/translucent PETG..

polar ingot
#

I thought it had something to do with the partitiontable complaint that etcher makes aswell

# 
fsck.ext2: Superblock invalid, trying backup blocks...
fsck.ext2: Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/sda```
chrome tide
#

ext4 is not ext2....

polar ingot
#

also says:

filesystem.  If the device is valid and it really contains an ext2/ext3/ext4
filesystem (and not swap or ufs or something else), then the superblock
is corrupt, and you might try running e2fsck with an alternate superblock:
    e2fsck -b 8193 <device>
 or
    e2fsck -b 32768 <device>```
#

same same:

e2fsck 1.47.2 (1-Jan-2025)
ext2fs_open2: Bad magic number in super-block
fsck.ext4: Superblock invalid, trying backup blocks...
fsck.ext4: Bad magic number in super-block while trying to open /dev/sda```
forest current
#

Are you doing this externally? (As in not within foxbuntu) There is no partition table on the drive, thats passed to the kernel by uboot's env

#

You could probably do it very manually by calculating the exact offset

polar ingot
#

yeah, I can't log into my fox anymore

#

maybe I can do it with serial

#

must be corrupto, can't login in serial (same error) or singleuser mode

#

wish I could fsck from another system

#

(I have some sandisk high endurance cards coming)

fast adder
floral marten
#

A member of our local mesh had a PLA node in his vehicle, strapped to something with a rubber band; the case collapsed.

#

Be careful kids 😃

warm basalt
#

I had an ESP32 board in a PLA enclosure that melted, the insulation on some jumper wires got melted off by the melted PLA too and all the copper turned very bright green

floral marten
quasi onyx
#

what happened here

warm basalt
#

conformal casing

polar ingot
nova frost
quasi onyx
#

hahhaha

chrome tide
#

So for Foxbuntu, are you guys using volume groups ? I'm trying to understand the filesystem, etc..

merry shore
floral marten
# quasi onyx what happened here

PLA node enclosure, external battery pack held on by rubber bands, left in the car. Not my node, just someone from our local mesh.

floral marten
chrome tide
#

That's what I'm trying to do with that post.

floral marten
#

oh, I apologize!

nova frost
floral marten
#

If you put the SD card in another linux system, and run strings /dev/sdb | head -n 3 (replacing sdb with your device path), you'll end up with something like this: blkdevparts=mmcblk1:32K(env),512K@32K(idblock),256K(uboot),32M(boot),512M(oem),256M(userdata),100G(rootfs) sys_bootargs= root=/dev/mmcblk1p7 rootfstype=ext4 rk_dma_heap_cma=1M sd_parts=mmcblk0:16K@512(env),512K@32K(idblock),4M(uboot)

#

If it's the rootfs that is corrupt, it may be possible to mount it via offset and fsck it.

#

if you have a proper sdcard reader without the USB in the way (or the VM in the way as I am doing), you may be able to see it as /dev/mmcblk1p7 and mount it.

mild hare
#

There is no parition table in the pico sdk image output, so same in foxbuntu. @floral marten is spot on.

floral marten
#

The challenge is most Pis and desktop linuxs, I believe, won't see it as eMMC, but rather, sata/scsi (/dev/sd*), so it won't mount. I looked at the foxbuntu code to see if I could decipher a physical offset for each "partition", and I couldn't follow the code (seems to be taken from .env.txt which isn't supplied).

#

I have a TuringPi board with an onboard microSD card reader, and it mounts as mmcblk0, but that's no help to you.

chrome tide
#

100GB rootfs ?!

nova frost
#

Is 64gb acceptable? Or 128?

mild hare
#

so the 100gb rootfs just is there to expand the parition. You can use an 8gb sdcard.

#

like sounds crazy, but it works

lavish sorrel
#

In case anyone runs into meshtasticd not starting after upgrading meshtasticd to 2.6.9 (like I did).
The daemon now runs as the meshtasticd user, who doesn't have permission on the GPIO's because, well, only root does on foxbuntu. shruggie

Couple quick commands to run to get your service back up and running. This is ONLY for 2.6.9:

## Add the GPIO group as foxbuntu doesn't have one
sudo groupadd gpio

## Add meshtasticd to the group
sudo usermod -aG gpio meshtasticd

## Create the udev rule for the permission changes
echo 'SUBSYSTEM=="gpio", KERNEL=="gpiochip*", GROUP="gpio", MODE="0660"' | sudo tee /etc/udev/rules.d/99-gpio.rules

## Reload and restart udev rules
sudo udevadm control --reload-rules
sudo udevadm trigger

## Reboot your node
sudo reboot
chrome tide
#

Or upgrade to 2.6.10, and it's fixed..

#

And you only need to create the rules file, and do the group stuff then reboot.

chrome tide
#

Please follow this, as this is the fix that was deployed. #meshtasticd message

#

And 2 posts down is the group stuff.

chrome tide
lavish sorrel
chrome tide
#

I have 1 fox on alpha, and 1 on daily..

#

And my meshadv is on daily..

nova frost
#

My roof node is on 2.5.something

#

I've turned alerts off for some of the repos, because they're releasing by the minute...

chrome tide
#

I have a Mars right now, but have never used it, and think I need to replace the LCD on it.. At least that's what my buddy told me..

#

Got the GPIO expenders today.. What changes do I need to make ? Do I have to rebuild foxbuntu completely?

lavish sorrel
# chrome tide Got the GPIO expenders today.. What changes do I need to make ? Do I have to reb...

This is what I sent to OSC after I set mine up:

For that port expander/button to work, you'll need to add the driver:
Device Drivers > GPIO Support > I2C GPIO Expanders > "PCF857x, PCA{85,96}7x, and MAX732[89] I2C GPIO expanders"

Then:

  1. echo pcf8574 0x20 | sudo tee /sys/bus/i2c/devices/i2c-3/new_device

  2. sudo nano /etc/udev/rules.d/99-pcf8574.rules

SUBSYSTEM=="i2c-dev", KERNEL=="i2c-3", ACTION=="add", \
  RUN+="/bin/sh -c 'echo pcf8574 0x20 > /sys/bus/i2c/devices/i2c-3/new_device'"

Then update your femtofox_SX1262_TXCO.yaml to this:

---
Lora:
## Ebyte E22-900M30S, E22-900M22S with or without external RF switching setup
## HT-RA62 (Has internal switching, but whatever)
## Seeed WIO SX1262 (already has TXEN-DIO2 link, but needs RXEN)
## Will work with any module with or without RF switching, and with TCXO

  Module: sx1262
  gpiochip: 4 # subtract 32 from the gpio numbers
  DIO2_AS_RF_SWITCH: true
  DIO3_TCXO_VOLTAGE: true
  CS:             #pin6 / GPIO48 1C0
   pin: 6
   gpiochip: 1
   line: 16
  IRQ:            #pin17 / GPIO55 1C7
   pin: 17
   gpiochip: 1
   line: 23
  Busy:           #pin16 / GPIO54 1C6
   pin: 16
   gpiochip: 1
   line: 22
  Reset:         #pin13 / GPIO57 1D1
   pin: 13
   gpiochip: 1
   line: 25
  RXen:          #pin12 / GPIO56 1D0
   pin: 12
   gpiochip: 1
   line: 24
#  TXen: bridge to DIO2 on E22 module
  spidev: spidev0.0 #pins are (CS=16, CLK=17, MOSI=18, MISO=19)
  spiSpeed: 2000000
General:
  MACAddressSource: eth0

And your config.yaml to have:

GPIO:
  User: 0 ## Or whatever pin you hook it up to
chrome tide
#

We should prolly enable this driver by default, no ?

#

Or would that mess everything up ?

lavish sorrel
chrome tide
#

Not for long.. ;P

lavish sorrel
#

So I think we need to put it through its paces a little more

chrome tide
#

I have my second weekend project now..

lavish sorrel
#

Just edit the kernel menu adding that driver and then it should rebuild the image you need afterwards.

chrome tide
#

What is the config.yaml change for ?

lavish sorrel
#

The config.yaml is just to define the user button

chrome tide
lavish sorrel
#

It can go wherever

chrome tide
#

Is that the push button on the rotary ?

#

Do you have photos ?

lavish sorrel
#

I'll take some in a little while

#

And it's just whatever gpio you solder the "push" pin to.

#

I did one with an encoder and one with a standard button. Both work

lavish sorrel
chrome tide
#

What about the rotary config in canned ?

lavish sorrel
#

rotary isn't supported on portuino yet, so my wiring it was premature.

lavish sorrel
chrome tide
#

Maybe we can bug Jonathan.. LOL ;P

#

I've been bugging him on the BME680 support..

lavish sorrel
chrome tide
#

I bug him all the time, but it's always on stuff he's actively working on. Maybe I'll plant a seed and see what happens..

#

Just curious, but why is sound support added to foxbuntu ?

warm basalt
#

LicheeRV Nano looks like another similarly sized board to the luckfox pico nano

chrome tide
warm basalt
nova frost
#

We did test some basic stuff. The reason the Pico mini was picked was size and cost - I had envisaged more people wanting to self-build (or maybe I haven't counted them 🤔)

#

The pico-non-mini is the only board with the same low power use

#

Literally anything extra that you add will draw more power.

warm basalt
#

I see! Is that idle power consumption?

#

Does powertop make a significant difference on either board?

#

I also wonder if it’s just lack of DVFS

nova frost
#

Might be. There's a reason mobile phones are able to beat us 😉

nova frost
warm basalt
#

Haha, I don’t have one (yet)

nova frost
#

^^^ some surveys, cos I'm spiralling a bit.

#

Help me, unrepresentative sample of close friends and supporters!

#

Thanks in advance!

warm basalt
# nova frost

You not going the lazy route of just piping it to the charge IC? 😛

#

Resistive divider hahahaha. Solar doubles as a battery warmer

nova frost
#

Canada users "this is genius, eh?"
Arizona users "Whyyyyyyyyyyyy?"

warm geyser
#

there are advantages to living in the place where the phrase "solar G2" is not only non-insane but actually describes multiple core infrastructure nodes, but the heat caaaaaaan be a bit of an issue as well 😆

nova frost
#

And why does everyone want 24v solar?

#

Or is this "should've let them write it in"

forest current
nova frost
quasi onyx
#

Hhaha

#

Gud

chrome tide
#

Android 2.6.7 now has hostmetrics!

quasi onyx
#

Ooo

#

Niceee

spring juniper
#

need to do some zip tie wire clean up ... but here's my overkill fox solar node:
Repurposed RAK Miner Enclosure
Voltaic Enclosures LTO MPPT
20aH LTO
Notch filter from Brokencircuitranch
$4 wifi adapter
some aliexpress waterproof plugs for power and eth

image.png
nova frost
#

You swapped out the JST power for screw terminals?

chrome tide
chrome tide
#

Might have to do that to mine, if I go solar..

spring juniper
#

I got tired of crimping the little JST connectors all the time and pulling them out by accident with ogre hands so I have a big pack of screw terminals I swap in

chrome tide
#

@spring juniper W/ your MeshSense setup, do you have to restart it at all ? I seem to have to restart mine every day, since it stops disaplaying the nodes..

chrome tide
spring juniper
#

I havent been paying attention to it lately but yeah I often come back to a frozen meshsense app

chrome tide
#

Maybe I'll work w/ Chris to figure out why that's happening.. You running on rPi by chance ? w/ or w/o lora ?

spring juniper
chrome tide
spring juniper
#

If I had to guess, I’d wager it’s something to do with needing to make a new connection every time it wants to poll the node

chrome tide
#

Hmm

spring juniper
#

Which IIRC is just how the Meshtastic API works at this point so 🤷‍♂️

#

One counter point though is I don’t remember having /as many/ issues when I was using BLE rather than WiFi to connect to node. That could be a red herring as it was also like 2.5x instead of 2.6

chrome tide
#

Hmm..

nova frost
#

What's the symptoms, sorry?

chrome tide
forest current
#

I had the same problem, you have to disable wifi power saving in /proc or was it /sys

#

Or maybe I used sysctl

chrome tide
#

Hmm..

forest current
#

Google "raspberry pi wifi dies frequently"

chrome tide
#

wifi has nothing to do w/ it tho.. My rPi is connected hardwired..

forest current
#

Eth has the same thing iirc

chrome tide
#

I don't think it's that, cuz my ssh sessions stay open..

nova frost
forest current
#

🤷‍♂️

polar ingot
#

also, the lifePO4 one I have is 4.5-28v input range......

#

MOAR

dire shuttle
#

Anybody tried setting up an ad-hoc wifi network from a FemtoFox?

#

I realized that once I deploy it far away, I won't have a way to update it and I don't want to ask someone to let me put weird comms devices on their network

nova frost
#

There's an open to-do

dire shuttle
#

Hm.

#

Turning on the wifi at certain times might be a neat idea to avoid the extra draw

#

10AM-5PM, for 10 minutes on the hour or something

nova frost
#

I've assigned one of the (remaining) pins as a MOSFET control for the WiFi power, but they're quite sensitive to voltage jitter (as you know)

forest current
dire shuttle
#

Do you mean MOSFETs care about voltage jitter or wifi dongles?

#

I would expect both

nova frost
dire shuttle
#

Ooh

nova frost
#

Similar to the ADC pin that is connected to the rst button

#

Actually, I should double check this with a real WiFi stick, and not just a module...

raw violet
#

have yall considered networkmanager? I’m not sure if it’s too heavy for the pico but supports interactive configuration, wifi, vpn config, and can be paired with modemmanager if using cellular

#

same with auto configuration of new interfaces like a usb ethernet adapter

nova frost
#

But if you can get it working without stomping on everything else, please do!

raw violet
#

well that’s unfortunate

dire shuttle
#

I picked up some BME280 I2C sensors and was thinking to add one to the FemtoFox, but I've never done I2C with real Linux. How hard is it to configure that?

nova frost
#

Ridiculously easy

#

Plug in sensor, use the sfc menu to enable i2c, update to the latest alpha

#

Done

lavish sorrel
nova frost
#

For the aht20 and the ina219, I'm not sure I did.

#

I had to switch on the telemetry...

lavish sorrel
#

I'm thinking about the i2c definition because of the screen. Nevermind me.

nova frost
#

Oh, good point

polar ingot
#

does the screen work again yet?

nova frost
# nova frost
poll_question_text

If I put solar input on the next Femtofox, what voltage range should it be?

victor_answer_votes

14

total_votes

21

victor_answer_id

4

victor_answer_text

4-24v

nova frost
# nova frost
poll_question_text

What power supply are you using / intending to use on a Femtofox? (Multiple answers allowed)

victor_answer_votes

13

total_votes

56

victor_answer_id

6

victor_answer_text

Batteries - lipo/liion is fine

dire shuttle
#

I soldered half a Grove wire to a BMP280, plugged it into a FemtoFox, and that caused the board to power down. I've discovered that my desire to not the magic smoke out of my fox is greater than my desire to get more data back from the node in the field 😓

lavish sorrel
# nova frost

Well, damn you all for being so closed minded about your battery chemistries! 😾

nova frost
#

Second only to Poe Power, whatever that is.

#

So it looks like mo' poe, taken liion down.

lavish sorrel
#

and the PoE> USB-C Power/Ethernet adapters are like $7 on amazon.

nova frost
#

I think the real question is, have you made a nickel-iron battery yet?

#

I see all the cool kids doing it with laundry detergent bottles, How Hard Can It Be™?

twilit mountain
#

If I have shore power, I'd rather have a Pi (not being a hater, I just apt update too often lol)

merry shore
nova frost
merry shore
#

The hearbeat LED keeps going even when the battery is dead?

nova frost
polar ingot
dire shuttle
#

One person who bought them said that half of the ones they got were bad

#

I did not look closely enough at the reviews

fading river
#

Question: Is it possible to add a voltage mon to the femtofox pro? If so does anyone have a chip/breakout rec.

mild hare
fading river
#

Exactly the key word I was looking for, thank you!

nova frost
forest current
forest current
# nova frost Nailed it.

This is what Im missing, havent had time to try it yet but I assume its just wiring up the ina and it automagically works due to known i2c address?

forest current
lavish sorrel
forest current
#

Ah understood. Wasnt somebody working on a charging board for multichemistry? I think @chrome prairie or @vagrant roost or whoever makes the li-ion protection boards on Etsy I forget who it was

#

Somebody was working on it I remember that much

vagrant roost
forest current
#

Thats who I was thinking of, thanks!

#

@lavish sorrel I havent tried that one yet but it may be what you want

nova frost
#

I think everyone wants all-in-one 🙃

forest current
#

Which autopooesis was working on

#

Havent seen anything about the progress in a while though, although Ive been really busy for a bit so probably missed it

nova frost
#

Yeah, we all got busy 😂

#

I've got a summer of travel filling up, unfortunately

forest current
#

Spain? 😏 or business travel

nova frost
lavish sorrel
nova frost
#

Yes, that's also where my comment on iron-nickel batteries came from - it's probably the only chemistry I've not seen in action (yet).

forest current
#

Its me I missed it 🤚

#

However its actually a relevant question for me

#

Because I live in the cold north so in winter li-ion has been fine with the raks, but with a fox idk if thats gonna be the case

#

Prob need an LTO or something

lavish sorrel
#

I haven't tried Keith's MCSBC with a fox, but it could work with a 2S LTO.

#

I've got one in that config with a Washtastic

forest current
#

Actually this may be a good question for @buoyant terrace as iirc hes the one who calculated that .02c thing

#

If the fox (mine, minimal) takes 0.4W at 5V, and its like -20F outside, will li-ion die with the sun on blast or nah

#

Oh assuming 18650s with bmc, not flatpacks

buoyant terrace
#

But always check your battery data sheets.

buoyant terrace
#

5V 0.4W = 0.08A
0.08 / 0.02 = 4Ah minimum.

#

10Ah battery: you should be ok up to 200mA charging below 0C. Just as an example.

dire shuttle
chrome tide
lavish sorrel
forest current
#

Correct me if Im wrong but I heard LiFePO4 wasnt that good in really cold weather?

nova frost
#

still better than liion

rough lagoon
#

Little late to the party, but regarding Meshsense, it's not pi specific. It'll kill or restart every node I have after a while. Esp32, nrf, Wi-Fi, or LAN. My TBeam/Supremes the display Wi-Fi says reconnecting. Or the display just turns off. Have to reset.

polar ingot
forest current
#

Also with a luckfox, but no sleep issue

#

I havent tried it with an esp32 or nrf though

polar ingot
#

woot woot, got my high endurance cards and a 10watt panel. Time to re-build the home fox, and the 4p LifePO4 mountain node!

#

Excited to see what I break adding the "alpha" branch....

hasty bolt
dire shuttle
chrome tide
#

FYI, 2.6.10 has the VFS changes, so all scripts will be broken that use those folders..

#

2.6.10 is in Alpha right now..

nova frost
#

Yeah, I need to fix that...

polar ingot
#

what files do I need to backup from a node if i wanted to restore it with a fresh install?

nova frost
#

Um

#

@lavish sorrel posted his script a while ago.

#

I'm not sure it'll restore across the newest install directly, tho

lavish sorrel
#

there's a PR in to get them placed into the image, but it requires a USB drive.

polar ingot
#

10-4. I just have another one with an iffy sd. It's not the end of the world to start from scratch either though

merry shore
quasi onyx
#

waveshares solar chargers is not great

#

if we had a node survive the winter on 6W panel and with like 19Ah idk what ur talking about

#

tho it was a wisblock

merry shore
#

The femotofox is efficient for what it is, but nowhere near a wisblock

fallow chasm
#

Anyone have any experience with a Broken Circuit Ranch Bandguard filter with a Femtofox? I have been using one with a Station G2 with very good results and have a Femtofox I want to pair with it.

nova frost
merry shore
#

A femtofox uses more than 10x the power of a wisblock, if my math is right

nova frost
#

Although less than some of the esp32 😉

merry shore
#

It needs a much beefier solar setup than a lot of what is offered

nova frost
#

Yes, I mean, a RAK can run off a 1W panel under optimum circumstances, so 10W isn't unreasonable.

#

(going to try a pro-micro on 0.6W soon™)

#

As I see it, there's 3 approaches: 1) bigger is bigger - scale it all up
2) better is better - use more efficient chargers that can capture lower light (shoulders)
3) be smarter - just up-size the panel so that the unclipped input is higher (also on the shoulders.)

fallow chasm
#

I am building the solar build that was The Comms Channel built with the Femtofox and on the surface, looks very promising. In testing with the Femtofox and the three 18650 batteries, I got at least 72 hours of run time. I never let it run completely down, but the Waveshare was showing 1 LED when I stopped the test.

#

I was running 2.6.4 firmware.

#

So far, I am very impressed with the Femtofox in general.

merry shore
#

That's easier in 4-land than 1-land tho 😉

fallow chasm
#

We do get a lot of cloudy days and it is not usual to have afternoon showers so we don't get 14 hours of sun every day in summer.

#

That is why I was interested to see if it could run 72 hours with no charging. And it did that.

merry shore
#

IIRC from the calculator I looked at, I can expect <2hr equivalent peak sun in December

fallow chasm
#

Bigger panel! 😄

merry shore
#

But the charger has to be able to make good use of it, is the problem

#

For example, in Austin, TX, you can expect around 2.73 peak sun hours in December, while in Portland, ME, it's likely to be even lower, around 4.25 or less.
That math ain't mathin'... 🙄 Thanks, AI.

nova frost
#

(works outside America with GPS coordinates)

nova frost
#

Can use a bme280 on the other one, to see if it's on fire or underwater

#

Or both 🤔

opaque abyss
#

Most of our solar nodes can handle at least 2 weeks of no sun so my solar femto build will have to be packed

dire shuttle
opaque abyss
merry shore
nova frost
#

Make use of nrel while they're still around. I hear whole government departments disappear overnight these days...

polar ingot
#

well another of my nodes seems unhappy. Meshtasticd died and wont start

# 
● meshtasticd.service - Meshtastic Native Daemon
     Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/meshtasticd.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
    Drop-In: /etc/systemd/system/meshtasticd.service.d
             └─override.conf
     Active: activating (auto-restart) (Result: signal) since Thu 2025-02-20 14:37:07 PST; 3s ago
    Process: 3460 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/meshtasticd (code=killed, signal=ILL)
   Main PID: 3460 (code=killed, signal=ILL)
        CPU: 191ms

Feb 20 14:37:10 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Scheduled restart job, restart counter is at 2.
Feb 20 14:37:10 femto systemd[1]: Stopped Meshtastic Native Daemon.
Feb 20 14:37:10 femto systemd[1]: Started Meshtastic Native Daemon.
Feb 20 14:37:10 femto meshtasticd[3474]: Portduino is starting, VFS root at /root/.portduino/default
Feb 20 14:37:10 femto meshtasticd[3474]: Set up Meshtastic on Portduino...
Feb 20 14:37:10 femto meshtasticd[3474]: Using /etc/meshtasticd/config.yaml as config file
Feb 20 14:37:10 femto meshtasticd[3474]: Also using "/etc/meshtasticd/config.d/femtofox_SX1262_TCXO.yaml" as additional config file
Feb 20 14:37:10 femto meshtasticd[3474]: Also using "/etc/meshtasticd/config.d/femto_config.yaml" as additional config file
Feb 20 14:37:10 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Main process exited, code=killed, status=4/ILL
Feb 20 14:37:10 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Failed with result 'signal'.```
chrome tide
#

@polar ingot What version meshtasticd ?

spring juniper
spring juniper
polar ingot
#

like one of the first with telemetry

chrome tide
#

edit the config.yaml and change the logging to degug..

polar ingot
#

done

#

why does my fox think its february again....

# 
× meshtasticd.service - Meshtastic Native Daemon
     Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/meshtasticd.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
    Drop-In: /etc/systemd/system/meshtasticd.service.d
             └─override.conf
     Active: failed (Result: signal) since Thu 2025-02-20 16:46:38 PST; 1min 8s ago
    Process: 2752 ExecStart=/usr/sbin/meshtasticd (code=killed, signal=SEGV)
   Main PID: 2752 (code=killed, signal=SEGV)
        CPU: 85ms

Feb 20 16:46:38 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Scheduled restart job, restart counter is at 5.
Feb 20 16:46:38 femto systemd[1]: Stopped Meshtastic Native Daemon.
Feb 20 16:46:38 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Start request repeated too quickly.
Feb 20 16:46:38 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Failed with result 'signal'.
Feb 20 16:46:38 femto systemd[1]: Failed to start Meshtastic Native Daemon.```
chrome tide
#

set the time via NTP

lavish sorrel
polar ingot
#

where does debug show more info?

# 
Jun 04 20:44:30 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Failed with result 'signal'.
Jun 04 20:44:34 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Scheduled restart job, restart counter is at 4.
Jun 04 20:44:34 femto systemd[1]: Stopped Meshtastic Native Daemon.
Jun 04 20:44:34 femto systemd[1]: Started Meshtastic Native Daemon.
Jun 04 20:44:34 femto meshtasticd[991]: Portduino is starting, VFS root at /root/.portduino/default
Jun 04 20:44:34 femto meshtasticd[991]: Set up Meshtastic on Portduino...
Jun 04 20:44:34 femto meshtasticd[991]: Using /etc/meshtasticd/config.yaml as config file
Jun 04 20:44:34 femto meshtasticd[991]: Also using "/etc/meshtasticd/config.d/femtofox_SX1262_TCXO.yaml" as additional config file
Jun 04 20:44:34 femto meshtasticd[991]: Also using "/etc/meshtasticd/config.d/femto_config.yaml" as additional config file
Jun 04 20:44:34 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Main process exited, code=killed, status=11/SEGV
Jun 04 20:44:34 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Failed with result 'signal'.
Jun 04 20:44:37 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Scheduled restart job, restart counter is at 5.
Jun 04 20:44:37 femto systemd[1]: Stopped Meshtastic Native Daemon.
Jun 04 20:44:37 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Start request repeated too quickly.
Jun 04 20:44:37 femto systemd[1]: meshtasticd.service: Failed with result 'signal'.
Jun 04 20:44:37 femto systemd[1]: Failed to start Meshtastic Native Daemon.```
restive scarab
#

try sudo service meshtasticd stop && sudo meshtasticd until you get it working, then restart the service - much quicker to iterate that way than flipping back/forth between service and journalctl

dire shuttle
#

It's alive and not dangling from an ethernet cable in my office!
Pictures are of a placeholder antenna; the full-size one is unwieldy indoors.

AP1GczOV-NRTYS-B5HXg-dxAUiGzePNxT1YAYLgtTLFw2f1wibYG_0bHZgSEqQw1654-h1245-s-no-gm.png AP1GczMbZu67f60jzBwZSkdSDzonmqApaSKTFRsWVZtqsPtJyjK_yvigCouCKgw1654-h1245-s-no-gm.png
#

mesh_bot isn't responding though, so... that's something to look into

lavish sorrel
twilit mountain
#

You still need sudo powers to start/stop services so I don't think they're off-base here actually 👍

lavish sorrel
lavish sorrel
twilit mountain
#

Your advice is warranted and I should learn to read 😆

lavish sorrel
restive scarab
#

haha yeah if you're on 2.6.9+ no sudo for meshtasticd, but also your meshtasticd doesn't work unless you also manually fixed permissions/created udev rule to do and you had to manually put yourself into alpha so likely already know about manually running the daemon without systemd

nova frost
polar ingot
#

I just used the SFC script, went into "Control" and did my setup there and all seems well

#

The node in question I think is on 2.6.7, one of the first with sensors support, but I can't even check it without meshtasticd running

#

and if I try to add the alpha repo I get some error about https dying, so I think the sd is probably borked in this one too

# 
E: Sub-process http received a segmentation fault.
E: Method /usr/lib/apt/methods/http did not start correctly
E: Method https has died unexpectedly!
E: Sub-process https received a segmentation fault.
E: Method /usr/lib/apt/methods/https did not start correctly```
#

oops

#

don't use "Topesel" cards from amazon

restive scarab
#

huh yeah, i've seen timeouts but that was 100% janky wifi adaptor suffering death throws - never seen apt error like that. Sandisk Extreme if indoors, Endurance if going outside and added benefit of being the fastest SD card so you less painful when you hit the disk for anything (COUGHswapCOUGHCOUGH)

dire shuttle
#

What's the preferred pluralization: FemtoFoxes or FemtoFoxen?

nova frost
#

Or Femtofoxenses

#

Actually, Femtofoxense would probably be one that came with a full suite of telemetry sensors.

opaque abyss
#

I have one femtofoxen of donuts!

merry shore
nova frost
merry shore
#

I believe @opaque abyss was referencing the 1992 Brian Regan comedy special "Something's Wrong with the Regan Boy".

#

And if I'm correct and I did recognize a 33 year old comedy routine from a 2.5 word oblique reference... why, that's totally normal, right?

opaque abyss
pallid basin
#

For those who want to install SSL certs on their femto fox and cloudflare to manage their DNS:

sudo su

# Install acme.sh -- this also installs a cron job to renew
curl https://get.acme.sh | sh -s email=<email>

# Setup your Cloudflare DNS keys/IDs
export CF_Token="<Cloudflare Token>"
export CF_Account_ID="<Cloudlare Account ID>"
export CF_Zone_ID="<Cloudflare ZoneID>"

# Issue the cert, using Cloudflare DNS to prove ownership of the hostname
acme.sh --issue --dns dns_cf -d <hostname/domain name>

# Install the cert in /etc/meshtasticd/ssl
acme.sh --install-cert -d <hostname/domain name> \
     --key-file /etc/meshtasticd/ssl/private_key.pem \
     --fullchain-file /etc/meshtasticd/ssl/certificate.pem \
     --reloadcmd      "systemctl restart meshtasticd" ```
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You need to have your local IP's (192.168.x.x) exposed as a domain/hostname via Cloudflare DNS.

#

but you don't need to have the femto exposed on the internet for traditional "Lets Encrypt Host verifcation" which puts a file on a webserver then checks that the file exists on the public web server.

#

it will add TXT records to your DNS host info to prove ownership of the hostname through cloudflare api and then remove them once the cert is issued,

nova frost
rough lagoon
dire shuttle
hasty bolt
#

I guess this device doesn’t ship to the USA?

IMG_9858.png
mild hare
nocturne birch
#

Hey guys!

I've been stuck on an issue for a couple of days, and I can't find any doco or discussion about it... hoping someone here is willing to point me in the right direction!

In my infinite wisdom I've ordered the wrong WiFi USB stick -- it's an rtl8188fu. The "fu" in the model number roughly represents how cooperative it's being in working with the Femtofox 😅

I've managed to find the kernel module for it @ https://github.com/kelebek333/rtl8188fu
But to build it I need the kernel headers.

The package linux-headers-5.10.160 doesn't seem to exist... and I can't figure out where to get it so I can build this module.

Does anyone have any advice on how I should be building a kernel module like this.. or otherwise how to get the rtl8188fu working?

Cheers

nova frost
#

You have to build it in the sdk, if it will build there then it is made into a module which you can install

#

it is not a straightforward process

nocturne birch
# nova frost You have to build it in the sdk, if it will build there then it is made into a m...

Heya @nova frost !
Thanks for your reply - and love your work on the Femtofox -- you're a legend!

I've got the SDK up and running and have managed to build the image. I did it previously to install the tun module, which worked... so hopefully with that as a starting point I'm half way there? 😅

Is there a guide you can point me to, or give me the "vibe" or a starting point of how to do it? I'm happy to invest the time and share the resulting module for others if there's somewhere for me to do that!

Cheers