Femtofox - Tiny, low power Linux node!

[chrome tide]

Water cooling w/ rad outside.. ;P

[opaque abyss]

If I turn my pc off it doesnt like to boot up again unless I faff with boot order

The woes of having 6 bootable drives because I'm irresponsible with my hardware

[mild hare]

@chrome tide you try the web terminal by chance?

[chrome tide]

Completely forgot about it honestly..

I have the SD card still, so I can always swap back to it, but the new card is my samsung endurance 32GB

Still wish I had a second femtofox.. LOL

[twilit mountain]

My POE switch actually said it was pulling 1.1W the whole time 🤷 (granted some of that is probably inefficient 56 > 5V bucking)

~0.4W is the idle number not the "compile as hard as you can" number

[nova frost]

Idk, when you turn WiFi, serial and Ethernet off, it stays pretty quiet.

My new fnrceoshejnrhtbndnbrbf usb power meter says so 😝

[nova frost]

Mine takes about 10 minutes to boot from cold. When win10 support ends, so might it.

[opaque abyss]

Time to switch to linux!

[nova frost]

Yes, but which one?

😈

[mild hare]

for you? Debian with Cinnamon

[twilit mountain]

"Just pick one" really.

Hot take: it matters way less these days thanks to FlatPaks 🤣

Fedora, Debian, maybe Linux Mint (Ubuntu with less evil)

[mild hare]

Hey now, you cant be dropping "f" bombs.

[twilit mountain]

is a happy Fedora user

lol

Everything "just works" and I want my OS to be Linux sure... but mostly I want it to get out of the way 😂

and the packages are super new ❤️ since the OS is only supported for like 18 months lol (Fedora definitely isn't perfect, again, "just pick one")

[opaque abyss]

I recommend distros like I recommend cell phones

If you're asking me, you've never touched technology and you get the easiest one to use. Iphones and PopOS! respectively

If you know a thing or two about phones/linux then why are you asking me? You probably already got something in mind

[mild hare]

❤️ my kids run PopOS!

[chrome tide]

PC-BSD

[neat frigate]

nice

[chrome tide]

Actually I think it was renamed to GhostBSD..

Or Ghost is a fork of it..

2.6.7-134 source is out, you ready for round 2 ? ;P

[chrome tide]

Any ETA on US restock ? I'm gonna pull the trigger and get a second one for testing..

[mild hare]

Probably this weekend

[chrome tide]

Anyone have a fresh install femtofox available to check CPU usage ? Foxbuntu 1.0 comes w/ meshtasticd 2.5.21

How do I access the web console again ?

[mild hare]

https://ip:7681

[chrome tide]

Doesn't look like it's working.. CPU usage is at 100%

[chrome tide]

Well crap.. I can't get into the system at all anymore..

Is there a way to boot to single user mode on the luckyfox ?

Hmm, ok, I think I see a ctrl-c to stop autoboot

Man you need to be quick.. gonna take a few tries I think..

Dang it.. Web Terminal got me logged in, but the says reconnecting..

[forest current]

install gentoo

[forest current]

Nice try but BSD isnt Linux 😉

[polar ingot]

Im a big fan of mint cinnamon, but put endeavouros-cinnamon on my new t480

[polar ingot]

I think thats where Im at too.....

[chrome tide]

BSD is better.. ;P

[polar ingot]

Oufff.... As a freeNAS/TrueNAS and PFsense user for 15+ years, I cannot agree.

[chrome tide]

I use them all also.. It's been better than the other options..

[polar ingot]

I just found Mint so easy. I like it for a dailydriver

[polar ingot]

How do you do this? serial?

One of mine that finished no longer allows connections

[chrome tide]

Yes, serial console

[polar ingot]

well i thought I could maybe chroot into the sd cards but they both show as unallocated....

[chrome tide]

I think it's a squashfs

If Balena Etcher isn't working for me, what else can I use to write the image ?

I seem to have issues w/ it on my Win11 laptops, but not my Win10 laptop..

[polar ingot]

ive used windiscimager in the past

is that where we are at @chrome tide ? format all SD cards? I've got serial connected now, but haven't gotten very far

I figure if I could get meshtasticd not to start at boot then I could just install the updated version without the CPU pegging

[chrome tide]

I just reimaged my SD w/ foxbuntu 1.0.0, and gonna start fresh, and get 2.6.7 installed right off the get..

[polar ingot]

yeah, thats kinda how I'm feeling except I didnt back up some config files I liked...

[nova frost]

Have you tried removing the fox from the baseboard, so there's no radio?

That might disrupt it long enough to get in.

Might need to jumper the serial and power leads, to access it

[chrome tide]

You can still backup the meshtastic config via IP

err Python CLI w/ IP

[forest current]

yeah because of the uboot env handling the partition table, only foxbuntu can see it. this is not the case with the lyra, and hopefully soon ™️ it wont be with the pico mini either

[polar ingot]

I was able to boot into singleuser mode, disable meshtasticd and then reboot regular, install the upgrade

and now, does it party

[lapis edge]

My fox is doing the same thing in a box on the roof. Sounds like I need to get my ladder back out to try the fix

[polar ingot]

I wasn't even able to log in anymore.

[chrome tide]

You don't need to log in to be able to run the --export-config command..

meshtastic -t <IP> --export-config > <path/to/file>

[polar ingot]

Oh, thats fun, I didnt know!

i've got that sorted now anyway, just waiting for a new build

[chrome tide]

This is what I'm working on installing.. https://launchpad.net/~meshtastic/+archive/ubuntu/daily/+build/30664851/+files/meshtasticd_2.6.7.134~ppa216fbf2~jammy_armhf.deb

[polar ingot]

dont do it

@chrome tide ABORT!

[chrome tide]

wait what ?

what fix ?

[polar ingot]

the 100% cpu fix

[chrome tide]

Cuz that's the build that Jonathan made the fix in he said.

Oh, hmm..

damn, ok

[polar ingot]

thats what I thought too, but he just said otherwise in linux-native

[obsidian thorn]

I have a stickly small radiator on my rpi 3b+ and it went down by 10c so probs the fox also might benefit it?

[nova frost]

Oh, that was in reference to my 12yo desktop machine, not my fox!

[obsidian thorn]

hahahha lol

so how many people have made solar foxes?

[polar ingot]

Im working on one, but waiting for i2c to work for battery monitoring

[obsidian thorn]

more or less the same

[polar ingot]

and not sure about a heatsink on the fox, I think the SD card is in the way

[obsidian thorn]

#1329096340700921898 message one fox is ready, but thinking of swapping out for 3 channel ina

[polar ingot]

Yeah, I have the 3 channel ina ready. Hopefully test a new build of firmware tomorrow with i2c support

[obsidian thorn]

ooo

[polar ingot]

Theres supposed to be a nightly build, but its not out yet, so I'm going to bed

[obsidian thorn]

gn

[polar ingot]

keep your eyes peeled here, there will be reports of success or failure

[chrome tide]

@polar ingot https://launchpad.net/~meshtastic/+archive/ubuntu/daily/+files/meshtasticd_2.6.7.135~ppaa8ab6e8~jammy_armhf.deb

I'm installing now

CPU usage is back to normal it looks like

[twilit mountain]

Thanks for testing 🥰 really appreciated

[chrome tide]

I won't be able to do much right now, as I am at work. But I'll do more testing when I get off..

[polar ingot]

Bing bong

Bmp280 in da house

[polar ingot]

you wake up earlier then me 😦

well this is very exciting..... two nodes with bmp 280 without issue

tonight I'll try the INA

[chrome tide]

Dogs wake me up at 5am for food.. LOL

[chrome tide]

So BME680 isn't working right now

[lavish sorrel]

Dumb question: but are you using the 3v3 or the 5V variant of it, and are you feeding it properly 😉

[chrome tide]

5v

I don't think there is a 3v3 BME680..

[polar ingot]

Ina3221 on a smolfox

maybe have some connections backwards but you know #forscience

[mild hare]

You guys are killing me. I gotta clear a bunch of stuff off my plate so I can get building again.

[chrome tide]

I'll take one in parts if that helps me get one sooner.. ;P

[mild hare]

haha, naw, soon soon. Longest part is running em all through the quality control app/process.

[chrome tide]

What is that ?

[mild hare]

microsd ribbon extender. Custom foxbuntu that boots and messages a specific node and does other things.

[chrome tide]

Ah

[mild hare]

That way I know it works before packaging.

[chrome tide]

Nice test module

[mild hare]

Outdoor node easy microsd access

[polar ingot]

funnnnn

[chrome tide]

Nice

[polar ingot]

climb tower, try not to drop micro sd card

[mild hare]

oh hell, I hope it's not the spring loaded kind...

it is. of course it is. 🤦‍♂️

[polar ingot]

Crammed everything in my little box (that ina3221 is HUGE) and put it out in the yard to test solar..... but of course now the time is wrong.

Not sure why my RTC loses power so much,

this time the year is right, but it thinks its feb 2nd

[mild hare]

Super weird. Did you get it from me?

[polar ingot]

no

DIY smol board

old rtc I found in my bin, should probably try a new one. I'd imagine those little batteries dont last forever

[chrome tide]

Supposedly 10 years..

[chrome tide]

I noticed that I've started getting this..
#meshtasticd message

[mild hare]

you change yaml or something recently?

[polar ingot]

well mine the i2c oled doesnt seem to work anymore.... Tried reboot, power off, changing on time to one year in seconds, rotating display. nada

May 01 19:46:06 femtofoxHome meshtasticd[320]:
May 01 19:46:06 femtofoxHome meshtasticd[320]: INFO  | 05:24:32 0 Use /dev/i2c-3 as I2C device
May 01 19:46:06 femtofoxHome meshtasticd[320]: INFO  | 05:24:32 0 Running without TFT display!
May 01 19:46:06 femtofoxHome meshtasticd[320]: INFO  | 05:24:32 0 Scan for i2c devices
May 01 19:46:06 femtofoxHome meshtasticd[320]: INFO  | 05:24:32 0 SSD1306 found at address 0x3c
May 01 19:46:06 femtofoxHome meshtasticd[320]: INFO  | 05:24:32 0 SSD1306 found at address 0x3c
May 01 19:46:06 femtofoxHome meshtasticd[320]: INFO  | 05:24:32 0 BMP-280 found at address 0x76
May 01 19:46:06 femtofoxHome meshtasticd[320]: INFO  | 05:24:32 0 2 I2C devices found```

not like it doesnt see it either

[mild hare]

Was it after update or did it just randomly stop?

[polar ingot]

Im assuming after an update, but I've been doing updates for the last few days without really looking at it

is there a way to wake it up? I know a button on other devices does that, but the button does wifi/reboot/shutdown on femtofox

I did try a different oled also

[mild hare]

I would think just restarting the service would unless timeout is 1sec or something.

I haven't had a chance to install the latest update yet

[polar ingot]

No Serial Meshtastic device detected, attempting TCP connection on localhost.
Connected to radio
display.screen_on_secs: 31536000
Completed getting preferences```

not that i NEED a display, but it would be cool that it worked consistently

[mild hare]

I'll try and update to latest tomorrow, I have an oled attached.

[polar ingot]

I could always assemble another one too.......

[mild hare]

or uninstall meshtasticd and install an older one just to test?

[polar ingot]

Also true

Hey I think that means it’s charging!

[mild hare]

I'm eyeballing software only because I don't have any CE editions.

[polar ingot]

channel one is battery, 2 is panel, and 3 is load

[polar ingot]

want a CE pcb? I have 3 extra

[mild hare]

Ty! But nope. Next week I'm trying my hand at PCB fabrication.

[polar ingot]

fun times. I used to design and build guitar effect pedals (mostly for myself)

went through the home etching, and then sending files away to get boards made

[mild hare]

I have a Commarker B4 30w fiber laser coming. Also got a silkscreen and UV solder mask inks. Going to be an interesting journey.

I will fail many times at first.

[polar ingot]

oh man that sounds fun

[mild hare]

Long version: https://youtu.be/wHGi0PkuTQg

[polar ingot]

thanks, I will watch that after work

[mild hare]

Short version: https://youtube.com/shorts/Xwlt3AxsAJA

[polar ingot]

and then I will probably start looking at supplies.....

[nova frost]

Supplies

Now I just have to hollow out a few bricks of cocaine and hide these inside...

note to the 3-4 security services monitoring me: jk, lol!

[mild hare]

Building Femtfox boards in 2025 be like...

[obsidian thorn]

so far what i2c devices has been tested to be working?
I saw the 3 ch ina and bme

[chrome tide]

How do I stop meshtasticd in foxbuntu ? I don't see a services file..

Hmm, but there is one somehow.. nvm I got it figured out w/ service..

[mild hare]

sudo systemctl stop meshtasticd

[chrome tide]

I used sudo service meshtasticd stop But same thing..

Not able to send messages tho..

I might try to swap back to the foxbunto 0.9 image SD card and fix meshtasticd on there, since i know that's been a working image..

See if I have the same issues w/ sending messages..

[forest current]

you were probably looking in /etc/systemd/system (user services/overrides) and not /var/lib/systemd (system services)

[chrome tide]

I looked in /etc/init.d actually

[forest current]

oh yeah thats SysVinit which everyone phased out (sadly) years ago. its all systemd now

[chrome tide]

LOL I guess I just showed my age.. LOL

[forest current]

service still works via sysvinit-to-systemd or whatever the package is called

[forest current]

oh dont you worry, i was mad about the systemd stuff, especially when debian did it.

[chrome tide]

I always forget the systemctl command name.. LOL

[forest current]

i used devuan for years until all the package maintainers made it impossible to keep forked

fucking poettering

[chrome tide]

I prefer FreeBSD..

[forest current]

i never got into the bsd's personally, but i like that at least linux finally got jails

[chrome tide]

Ran netbsd on my sparc 2, 5, 10 and 20s..

[forest current]

woof

i think ive only ever ran solaris on sparcs

[chrome tide]

pizza box sparcs..

I had each one to the Ts for specs too..

SuperSparc CPUs, MAX RAM, etc..

[polar ingot]

Whats going on with yours? I'm on foxbuntu 1.0 and I don't 'think' i have any issues on the latest D I've installed

[polar ingot]

and bmp280 (no humidity)
I have some INA219's en route
anything youre looking for in particular? if I have it in my bin I'll try it

[chrome tide]

Can you send messages to other nodes ?

Or receive messages from other nodes ?

[polar ingot]

yup

[chrome tide]

I can't for some reason..

[polar ingot]

I have contact running on one, and meshing around on another and just got a bunch of good jokes

do you have the homeassistant plugin or something? thats what it was for me, one thing at a time (i got in trouble from @nova frost )

[chrome tide]

I am using webUI to send messages, and it's not sending. I even sent messages to the femtofox from my T-Deck, and nothing..

[polar ingot]

try meshtastic --sendtext 'whats crackin'

from the cli of the node, it might give some error message

i find the webui doesn't always receive messages

[chrome tide]

Nothing

[mild hare]

you set region right?

triple check conf?

[chrome tide]

  lora:
    configOkToMqtt: true
    hopLimit: 7
    ignoreMqtt: true
    region: US
    sx126xRxBoostedGain: true
    txEnabled: true
    txPower: 30
    usePreset: true

[polar ingot]

like it didnt say anything when you run that command?

mine does:

No Serial Meshtastic device detected, attempting TCP connection on localhost.
Connected to radio
Sending text message whats crackin to ^all on channelIndex:0```

[chrome tide]

Where should I see it ?

Yea, I got that, but nothing on any of my other nodes

[polar ingot]

well then it doesnt know about any errors in sending

so maybe a channels issue? I don't have many other ideas

[chrome tide]

I get a message about using software radio or something..

[polar ingot]

in the logs? i saw that one on mine I think, but it was fine

[chrome tide]

Simulated Radio..

May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: /root/.portduino/default/prefs/uiconfig.proto does not exist
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: ERROR | 19:43:45 0 Could not open / read /prefs/uiconfig.proto
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 Wanted region 1, using US
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 External Notification Module Disabled
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 Start meshradio init
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 Radio freq=906.875, config.lora.frequency_offset=0.000
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 Set radio: region=US, name=LongFast, config=0, ch=19, power=30
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 myRegion->freqStart -> myRegion->freqEnd: 902.000000 -> 928.000000 (26.000000 MHz)
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 numChannels: 104 x 250.000kHz
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 channel_num: 20
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 frequency: 906.875000
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 Slot time: 28 msec
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 Use SIMULATED radio!
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 Use webserver port from yaml config 443
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 Webserver started
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 Web Server framework started on port: 443
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 Web Server root /usr/share/meshtasticd/web
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 API server listen on TCP port 4403
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 PowerFSM init, USB power=1
May 02 19:44:36 femtofox meshtasticd[3688]: INFO  | 19:43:45 0 [RangeTest] Init Range Test Module -- Receiver

Wait, channel 19 ? Isn't US default LongFast supposed to be 20 ?

Oh, then it says channel_num 20..

This is log from boot.

I'm confused about the autoconf section also..

Seems like it thinks it's an rPi ?

@polar ingot How'd you get into single user mode ?

Oh wait, you have CE don't you ?

I haven't seen any of my nodes in over 24 hours on my femtofox either..

[polar ingot]

yes, but should be the same

[chrome tide]

CE doesn't have USB CH340 onboard..

[polar ingot]

correct, but I wired one up to the uart

so its essentially the same

first, stop the uboot, then setenv bootargs single and then boot

[chrome tide]

That's what I am using for serial console. And it resets when you reboot the luckyfox. Not sure if it does the same for you.

[polar ingot]

probably, but you dont reboot after setting it

[chrome tide]

Duh, I can't set it, that's the problem..

[polar ingot]

you can stop the boot?

[chrome tide]

I can't ctrl-c fast enough to stop the autoboot

[polar ingot]

ohhhhhhhh

[chrome tide]

I have to plugin power, reconnect to serial, and then ctrl-c..

[polar ingot]

yes, that is a problem

[chrome tide]

but by the time I get reconnected, and can ctrl-c, it's past that point..

[polar ingot]

it was hard enough for me.... hmmm

OH!

connect via serial, and then "long press" the button on the luckfox

[chrome tide]

I need 4 hands basically.. LOL

[polar ingot]

that should reboot it without removing power to anything

[chrome tide]

Hmm, I'll give that a try tomorrow.

[polar ingot]

like a good 1 seccond press

not 5 secconds, thats halt

and quick press is toggle wifi

is your femto locking up though? or why do you need single user mode?

[obsidian thorn]

Bme280 with ina3221

[polar ingot]

I should have a bme280 somewhere. I can confirm ina3221 works

[obsidian thorn]

individually yeah but together might work or not

[chrome tide]

Cuz the original SD card has 2.6.7 w/ high CPU, so I need to kill that..

ina3221 has always worked, I thought..

I've had one in my RAK19007 Lowes solar node for a while now..

[polar ingot]

oh 10-4. I thought you meant on the system youre on now. Definetly a downside of having the serial chip powered along with everything else.

maybe in the next revision @nova frost could have a jumper that made the serial chip only powered by USB, then you could leave the console open, power up the board with external power, and see all the u-boot stuff.

[chrome tide]

even if I can keep it powered while doing a reboot..

[polar ingot]

took me a few tries each time to get the control-c right

[nova frost]

If you want the ch340 unpowered, there's a 0-ohm resistor you can remove. It's awkward, but @fiery finch foresaw someone might want to disable it.

[fiery finch]

I foresee all

[nova frost]

Can you remove the fox from the board and run it that way?

Remove the radio, and force it to stop?

If you have plug&socket Dupont jumpers, you can select what is powered at a time.

I'm still struggling to know what you're trying to do.

Can you kill it using usb-config?

That runs once per boot.

[polar ingot]

the broken meshtasticd build causes 100% cpu usage and doesnt allow login or anything

makes everything "time out" basically

so, if you can stop the auto boot, you can select single user mode, where it will boot without starting services, then you can disable meshtasticd, reboot, and re-install

[nova frost]

Ok, so the issue is restarting it while maintaining the usb-serial link?

[polar ingot]

not on CE boards, because I left the usb-serial adapters power disconnected from the fox

but on the pro boards, thats how hes power cycling it to get a reboot

Im not sure if the button reboot script works in this locked up state

[chrome tide]

Hmm, will meshtasticd start if there is no radio ?

[nova frost]

Exactly!

Do you have some jumper wires?

[chrome tide]

Boot into single user mode, so I can upgrade meshtasticd to a high cpu fixed version.

[chrome tide]

I have some dupont cables.

[twilit mountain]

If you have one defined in your config and it can't find it, it'll fail to start. If you don't, it'll use simradio mode.

[nova frost]

So, lift the fox out and only connect uart2 and power.

[chrome tide]

It currently shows that is has a 126x, and simradio..

Which is my problem.. LOL I can't seem to send/receive on it anymore.

[polar ingot]

Id start with the button on the luckfox, if that doesn't work, then @nova frost jumper idea seems sound

[nova frost]

Yeah, just the top-right 6 pins should be enough

@fiery finch can we add a safe-mode to usb-config? Idk how else we could force the issue.

[chrome tide]

WOOHOOO!!!! I got into boot loader

The button reboot worked, it didn't disconnect serial..

So I don't have to search for the commands when I get inside w/ everything.. LOL setenv bootargs single then boot

[polar ingot]

partyyyyy

[nova frost]

I was going to say tio is meant to be good at grabbing a falling knife serial connection.

And the web serial thing I use has an auto-connext feature.

[chrome tide]

So I think I just figured out my issue w/ the femtofox and foxbuntu 1.0

1.0 is missing this line.. during meshtasticd start..

May 03 11:26:41 femtofox-1 meshtasticd[1302]: Also using "/etc/meshtasticd/config.d/femtofox_SX1262_TCXO.yaml" as additional config file

So that's an easy fix, but I got foxbuntu 0.91 SD card back in and it's working w/ the new meshtasticd 2.6.7-137 build..

[polar ingot]

Wonder why yours needs that and mine doesn't?

[chrome tide]

Not sure, but that is the config for the radio that is being used.

Maybe nagu can chime in.. I believe they are the one that made the foxbuntu image..

I guess now the question is do I want to go back to foxbunto 1.0, and fix the missing ymal or just say w/ my working setup, that has all my nodes listed, etc already.. LOL

[polar ingot]

I'm not at home, so I'll check my config later, but I swear I remember seeing that in there

[polar ingot]

sounds like you need more foxies

[opaque abyss]

is there a usb wifi chip with type-c that works for the fox?

[chrome tide]

That's not untrue! LOL But no one has any Pros right now..

[polar ingot]

time to jlcpcb a couple CE's!

(min order is 5pcbs, with two of them populated)

[chrome tide]

Yea, what's the point in ordering 5 and only assymbling 2.. ;P

[polar ingot]

$$$$$

I have too many project, gotta juggle to dollerinoes around

[chrome tide]

yea, but it's gonna cost more to make the other 3 board in the long run..

Interesting.. It's still not sending messages.. :\

[polar ingot]

does this file exist /etc/meshtasticd/config.d/femtofox_SX1262_TCXO.yaml ?

[chrome tide]

On my 0.91, yes.

[polar ingot]

when doing the SFC on 1.0 it should copy the correct radio config .yaml from /etc/meshtasticd/available.d/ to /etc/meshtasticd/config.d/

if that didnt happen for you, you could manually copy the file over, and it will be loaded at meshtasticd start

[chrome tide]

I'm pretty sure it was user error..

[mild hare]

I hate to sound dumb, but doesnt running the wizard in femto-config copy this file over?

[mild hare]

I'm hurrying dude

[polar ingot]

correct

[chrome tide]

I don't remember if I did that, so it could be my fault..

[polar ingot]

yeah, run the config

[chrome tide]

LOL I know.. You're just 1 person, and life is priority.. I'm just giving you a hard time.. ;P

[mild hare]

the image doesnt come with config in there afaik. you gotta run the wizard.

[polar ingot]

wizzzardddddssss

sorry, excited about wizards over here

[chrome tide]

Yea, I don't think that happened.. Not worried about it right now. I have 0.91 working fine..

[mild hare]

If the world would just chill tf out, I could focus on this instead of chickens, fruit trees, garden, solar, 30w fiber laser for making PCBs, etc

[fading river]

😭 I rebooted remotley and it didnt come back up gotta go to my roof (its my networking config not the fox)

[chrome tide]

How much land do you have ? ;P

[mild hare]

I did what any non wealthy hacker would do. I bought 1.5 acres bordering... thousands of acres of State Forest. So it's debatable. 😉

"I have no idea how those fruit trees got there. Maybe ask Johnny." (American history joke)

[mild hare]

Working on it on another project, but HCI bluetooth is a thing. You can get a serial console over it. Would require a ble adapter and some configuration but doable and lower power than wifi

A bunch of us were kinda sad about no bluetooth on linux meshtasticd but after some thought I was like "this is linux. ble should be for console login anyway"

[fading river]

not using wifi, im using HaLow

i live in NYC and my node is 30+ stories above me so BT aint an option 🙂

[twilit mountain]

@mild hare

Looks great! What should I be doing with the knob though?

[mild hare]

prototype case lol. dunno. Make it work? 😆

oh, hang on, lemme find the right oled too

[twilit mountain]

Not a complaint to be clear. Just... What was it's intended purpose?

[nova frost]

Well, I put 2 I2C ports on them, and 4 months later we have I2C sensors on Meshtasticd, so....

[twilit mountain]

Put RGB LEDs on the next ones lol

[nova frost]

Underglow?

🫡

[mild hare]

encoder.

@twilit mountain this screen too: https://a.co/d/ijfOXQO

[nova frost]

does it click?

[mild hare]

@twilit mountain there are notches for this screen

[nova frost]

But you forgot to put a window on the... nevermind...

[mild hare]

it does, I forget which one

[twilit mountain]

Ayy I've already got some of those 🙂 Gotta go digging

[twilit mountain]

I do not have those. Got a link to one that'll work?

[mild hare]

EC11. Not sure how long of shaft.

https://a.co/d/dDHM73F just an example from past order. not sure on shaft length

Lemme ask @surreal iron

[nova frost]

Is it an I2C encoder?

cos there;s not many spare pins...

[mild hare]

oof. gpio.

[nova frost]

#onebutton

[mild hare]

I have not done the encoder at all on femto

[mild hare]

was just thinking that

[nova frost]

yeah, I was trying to remember what we done.

[mild hare]

new meshtastic does have one button nav

[mild hare]

is this actually a thing? if it wasnt you saying it I would ask "as an LLM are you lying to me again?"

[nova frost]

I'm pretty sure they exist

but it'd just be a crappy 3-channel port expander

[mild hare]

adafruit has one dunno if it would fit

[nova frost]

ok, I'll see if I can add something to the next test batch of PCBs...

looks like you're going to be coding up a big ol' port expander to control all the things.

[mild hare]

https://github.com/wagiminator/ATtiny412-I2C-Rotary-Encoder

[polar ingot]

When you want RTC and i2c socket on a smolfox, on gets creative

[chrome tide]

I2C can piggy back off the same wiring.. So you could technically make a 2 cable, and it would work..

[nova frost]

Just use some 22mm pins, and push the plasticky bit halfway up

[chrome tide]

As long as you have the 5v to support it, you could have like 10-20 I2C devices off the same 4 wires..

[nova frost]

#bothsides

[polar ingot]

thats basically what I did

[nova frost]

oh, you're actually using the JST and the 2.54 at the same time?

[polar ingot]

yes

[nova frost]

utter madness

[polar ingot]

like a wildman

[nova frost]

have you seen the batshit I did on the normal one?

[polar ingot]

noooo

[polar ingot]

2.54 for dayz

[nova frost]

3 rows of 2.54 or 2x JST, or 2x 2.54 and 1x JST

[chrome tide]

I wondered why there were so many through holes..

[nova frost]

I had visions of people wanting to configure it different ways

99% slap a 30db radio and some JSTs and call it good 😭

[chrome tide]

I just made a JST y cable.. LOL

JST to dupont actually

[nova frost]

do you use the ethernet?

[polar ingot]

to set the time before closing the case

... which hasnt worked out for me

[nova frost]

oh

[polar ingot]

so trying a new rtc module

[nova frost]

ah, yea

the ones with the yellow cell are usually ok

[chrome tide]

You have to set system time, then write it to the RTC.

Or write RTC time, then set system time based of RTC..

[nova frost]

...I just connect it via ethernet and reboot, and it writes to the RTC then.

[polar ingot]

ok yeah

[nova frost]

I tried being clever

it didn't work out

[chrome tide]

Oh, I've always forced it by running the hwclock command

[nova frost]

that didn't work for some reason

[polar ingot]

first time it went to 1999, and then i realized there was a cold solder joint on the rtc batt

and then this time it went to feb 2025....

but I should maybe try this hwclock command

[nova frost]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[polar ingot]

I will do that now

Project box is smol

[chrome tide]

hwclock -w will write system time to rtc..

[nova frost]

next time I have 20 modules that all need the time setting, I will try it

which will be in a couple of weeks, at this rate

[chrome tide]

hwclock -r

(Show hardware clock time)

hwclock -w

(Set hardware clock from system time)

hwclock -s

(Set system time from hardware clock)

[polar ingot]

fun

lets do that now

[nova frost]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-patrick-star-noted-notes-gif-26231953

[polar ingot]

[sudo] password for femto:
2025-05-03 14:20:29.460466-07:00```

claims its correct?

[chrome tide]

yup

[polar ingot]

so it took it from boot though?

[chrome tide]

It's possible it write it at boot to RTC..

[nova frost]

it does

[chrome tide]

There you go.. 😉

[nova frost]

if it has network at boot, it syncs everything from net time

[polar ingot]

well I wonder why mine was losing time

[nova frost]

hence my hack of rebooting repeatedly

[chrome tide]

I'm getting ready to change all my NTP server setting to one of my 2 Stratum-1 NTP servers I have in my house..

both are rPi zero 2w based, so I want to get a node for one of them, and put it on top.. LOL The garage ntp server is POE powered, and the switch has a UPS powering it..

An APC Smart-UPS 2200

[polar ingot]

thats some excellent geekery

[chrome tide]

The switch is really the only thing that it's powering..

[mild hare]

I got my Mikrotik router serving ntp.

[chrome tide]

I have a colo in DTLA for my "lab env"

[mild hare]

colo aka "floor space" 😁

[chrome tide]

Stratum-1 NTP servers get time from GPS. If you're Mikrotik has serial, you should be able to add a GPS module to it, and get Stratum-1 status w/ it..

[chrome tide]

Colo, as in a half cabinet, with a /26 of routable IPs to it..

[mild hare]

also from gsm

[chrome tide]

Yea Mikrotik should be able to pull time for GSM if you have it also..

I have an older Mikrotik in my 5th wheel, but don't really use it anymore..

I guess I could, but it reboots on me, and sometimes factory resets..

[mild hare]

I have a little 4g mikrotik as a backup when things get bad

[chrome tide]

Which is a know issue w/ the hardware..

I have a setup call WifiRanger, which uses customer firmware for the 2 Mikrotik hardware pieces..

FREAKING HATE IT!!!!!!!!!! LOL

But it's nice that it has wifi, usb for mobile hotspot, and network, plus POE in to power it, and POE out to power the roof top device..

And it has multi-WAN w/ failover

[mild hare]

I have some old mikrotik gear and some new. All is reliable like kalishnikov. Runs for years.

[chrome tide]

The router I have will run out of storage space, and factory reset if I enable all it's features..

would be AWESOME if I could upgrade the NAND to be like 2-4x larger.. LOL

Ok, time to get readay to leave.. bbl..

[polar ingot]

seems like my time stuck, I dunno if it was the new RTC or @chrome tide command, but either way the smolSolar is ready to go back into the yard, or maybe up a mountian.

[surreal iron]

This is the correct one.

I can easily mod the case to be whatever buttons you guys want on the front.

[chrome tide]

What there is an AlleyCat enclosure for Femtofox ?

[surreal iron]

#enclosures-discussion message

[chrome tide]

Resin only ?

[mild hare]

Prototype @surreal iron made. Can't speak for her but guessing fdm stls will surface at some point.

[surreal iron]

Allowing time for prototype feedback from the beta testers on my Discord server.

[chrome tide]

What is the LDO descriptor ?

The below parts won't be assembled due to data missing.
LDO designator don't exist in the BOM file.

Hmm....

[quasi onyx]

Now goto checkout and be amazed when it gets more expensive

[nova frost]

It's a bonus part that you don't need.

Femtofox pro back in stock in the UK.

[chrome tide]

Looks like it's just a jumper, right ?

[nova frost]

Yeah, just skip it. I was worried that when in pi hat mode, 3.3v wouldn't be enough, so I stuck the option of a second 3.3v LDO in there.

It's not needed

Foxes back in stock. Get them while they're hot.

I removed the fox hole on this batch - trying something different. It should make the base a bit stiffer.

Nothing else is different

😄

[chrome tide]

These MF'rs are CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder if I can get it shipped to Canada, and have my buddy send it to me..

[quasi onyx]

Mhm

[chrome tide]

150 in duty, and the parts are less than 100 bux..

[quasi onyx]

Yeeee

U know who to blame:)

[chrome tide]

Not my f*cking president! I hate the bastard as a human being..

[opaque abyss]

we talk mesh here, not politics

[chrome tide]

I'm talking human being, politics have nothing to do w/ my hatred for him..

[opaque abyss]

that has even less to do with the mesh, since you cant even rope tariffs and international policy into the conversation as that can impact buying mesh equipment

[chrome tide]

I'll kill anyone that tries to grab my daughter by the p*ssy...

He's just a piece of sh!t, that thinks he made millions, but in reality, his daddy gave him all his money, and he's bankrupted multiple companies he has owned..

Ok, I'm done..

LOL

[nova frost]

https://tenor.com/view/chill-relax-crypto-self-care-calm-gif-26286424

This, too, shall pass

[chrome tide]

I hate talking politics, and my wife is all into them.. It annoys me so much when she starts talking to me about it..

[chrome tide]

NOT SOON ENOUGH! LOL

[nova frost]

https://tenor.com/view/mental-health-mental-health-crisis-mental-health-resources-to-do-breathing-exercise-gif-25663967

https://tenor.com/view/dont-forget-to-breathe-very-important-mr-miyagi-daniel-larusso-daniel-san-gif-24814711

Flux on, flux off.

[chrome tide]

bolt in, bolt out.. ;P

[polar ingot]

Was cheap shipped to me in Canada 😄

[chrome tide]

Or I could get a forwarding PO box.. LOL

[polar ingot]

@chrome tide ``` Shipping Charge: $13.28

Customs duties & taxes: $6.21 ```

that was my femto order to Canada

although, I'll have say "sorry" to stay on brand

[mild hare]

https://tenor.com/view/big-bang-theory-sheldon-cooper-gif-5960461

Ford, GM, John Deere, Boeing and others just announced moving to Mexico.

[surreal iron]

I’m going to move to Canada and open my own PCB fab.

[frozen cloud]

Wanna go half on a building ? Looking into a warehousing operation with a off network type of delivery of things into the USA

[surreal iron]

BC?

[chrome tide]

But Canada has tarrifs also..

[polar ingot]

I think everywhere does, maybe less?

Either way, we generally welcome all cool cats up here.

On another note, lifePO4 not great for femto. seems like she shuts down at ~3.10v. Going to add a buck booster to the solar node

[chrome tide]

The femtofox doesn't have any protection does it ?

[nova frost]

Nope. Things get funky down low

Which radio are you using?

(pleasenot30dbpleasenot30dbpleasenot30db)

[chrome tide]

Why are both radios in the BOM ?

[polar ingot]

buck booster it is! My charge board has protection

this one has the seeeeeed radio

[nova frost]

https://tenor.com/view/denzel-washington-relief-anxious-man-relieved-fallen-movie-gif-20959269

[polar ingot]

because choice

[chrome tide]

1W or death!

;P

[nova frost]

Talk softly and carry a big stick antenna

[polar ingot]

those are the rules

ham rules anyway

[chrome tide]

Oh wait.. Canada has 500mW limit right ?

[polar ingot]

But I think a booster to like 3.5 volts the lifepo4 shoudl work without drawing crazy current

[spring juniper]

Did I glance over some chatter re: i2c sensor voltage levels being reported properly in 2.6.5+

[polar ingot]

ignorance is bliss

[chrome tide]

LOL Until you get the knock...

[spring juniper]

...no UDP tomfoolery?

[polar ingot]

small town

[polar ingot]

just regular sensors

[nova frost]

I haven't tried it withafox, but I have a boosted node that runs off AA alkali from my "dead battery" collection

[spring juniper]

hell yeah

I've been running a fox of a single LTO cell with a buck/boost to 5v

[polar ingot]

this is the mppt im using: https://www.tindie.com/products/silicognition/lifepo4weredsolar1/

[spring juniper]

seems to like it

[polar ingot]

I only need 3.3 for the seed radio

no sense in boosting that high me thinkgs

[spring juniper]

ah, I just meant I took a lower V battery to a higher V output and the Fox didnt care - this is where someone with a EE tells me that's not the important part of the story

[chrome tide]

For usb-config file, radio module is sx1262_tcxo or ebyte-e22-900m30s

[nova frost]

sx1262_tcxo is fine

[nova frost]

Our power tests showed that it "works" down to 3.3V, for a given value of "works"

[nova frost]

but just plugging a reasonably well charged Liion straight into the 3.3-5vin will give ok results

[nova frost]

I like when people post pictures so good you can reverse engineer it from them

😄

That is a lovely looking board, and a huge-mungous inductor

[nova frost]

That seeeeeeed radio is really nice. If you dump anything over 3.3v into the 5vin, it gets bucked down to 3.3v automatically.

[opaque abyss]

My biggest gripe with buying stickers is how big they are

Like yeah you dont want to spend a few bucks on some tiny sticker

But then they're so big you cant put them anywhere

[polar ingot]

I have a gen1 board with an even bigger inductor... i think its in one of the pics

I actually have two of them. One I want to put 1s3p pack on top a hard to reach mountain with a 10w panel, and one on an easier mountain with my 1s

[nova frost]

Between @buoyant ermine, @warm basalt and @quasi onyx, I'm convinced that some kind of boost is required soon. Just need to see where it will fit in the overall picture

[warm basalt]

for which supply, sorry, not caught up

[nova frost]

For running 30db radios off batteries

cmon, it's only been like 18 hours!

[polar ingot]

I found an old pololu 5v boost in my parts bin thats 0.5" x 0.33" and good up to 200mA. Think this will be ok with the RA01 or seeed radio?

[spring juniper]

people really moving fast on this development ... another fox with volts in the wild

[warm basalt]

I would say, follow the EBYTE datasheet (which says you need 5V to sustain the output power)

or if it’s your own design then follow the PA datasheet

I think the docs for Station Nano are a great starting point!

[nova frost]

maybe. The fox needs about 70mA, and tx on full 22db power usually needs another 150

[warm basalt]

Or was it station G1 etc.

Oh yeah, the MT3608 is available as a boost module pcb on aliexpress and the usual places

I think it’s cheap and chinese enough that the cheap and chinese modules don’t bother making fakes 🤣

[spring juniper]

knock off knock offs are absolutely a thing

I dunno about that module but just in general

[warm basalt]

for real haha. haven’t had a bad one from AliExpress yet

also it’s fixed 1.2MHz which makes part selection straightforward rather than having to calculate based on application

[polar ingot]

Yes but look at the size!

#forscience ?

[buoyant ermine]

I'm really loving the performace of the TPS61022 I use in a lot of my designs. I think a few are shared with you on EasyEDA, feel free to copy it

Has stupid good idle power with the E22 as well, this thing has been going almost four days now and is still at ~60% on a 4500mah battery.

[quasi onyx]

Alr

[warm basalt]

if you keep the pinout identical to the xiao kit then you can run the mainline meshtastic firmware if you are mindful of the pre-gain tx power

[buoyant ermine]

US = output limit is 36dbm erp. So full blast is fine

It was supposed to be NRF_kit compatible but rolled 2pins.

Boost converter is tiny though, so a good copy-paste onto femtofoxv2

[warm basalt]

Full blast may be fine but more than 9dB to the M33S will destroy it eventually

and the overload would be really bad for quality anyway

[buoyant ermine]

Oh it’s a m30s

I only use the m33s on pi’s where it’s easy to set the limit

[nova frost]

How it's shaping up in my head:
Power inputs:

1. raw liion battery
2. Poe (goes to correctly rated dcdc module)
3. usb-c
4. 5v jst

These would go to a power distribution block, and either get boosted to 5v or not.

@buoyant ermine I get why you've made 3x variants of the same hardware, but I'm preferring modular construction for this, because it's easier for me to support.

[buoyant ermine]

You want to use a COTS boost converter for that, or one of us design something that works with a pin header for you?

[fallow chasm]

Can a GPS be added to the Femtofox? If so, which one and how to do it?

[chrome tide]

And serial GPS should he able to be added.

[forest current]

There was talk about connecting meshtasticd to gpsd but not sure where that is currently

[nova frost]

I'll make something based on the designs I've seen. Just trying to crystallise how best to achieve it.

Like, the design decisions now will haunt us for the life of the devices.

[buoyant ermine]

Designed based on a 2A+ transient load and 10ma idle load. A dual mode chip (PWM + PFM) helps with this.

Use shielded indicators. Follow the layout guidance of the IC vendor. Remember DC bias derating on the input/output caps.

Target 5.15V ish. Make sure to simulate the boost converter you choose to make sure it stays below 5.25V. May need a bulk cap (~100uf+) after the boost to keep this in check under PFM mode at low load.

https://www.ti.com/tool/WEBENCH-CIRCUIT-DESIGNER

webench is the easy button

[lavish sorrel]

Since anything I won't be getting anything "new" in the immediate future, I decided to give my OG CE some upgrades(?). UPS, LCD, streamlined single cable for power and serial and a n-type antenna.

PS- I fully acknowledge and accept that this is a complete abomination, but I love it anyways.

[chrome tide]

How can I get an invite to beta test the prototypes ? 😉 nvm, that was fairly easy to figure out..

[frozen cloud]

Following

[surreal iron]

If you didn’t start printing yet, I have a newer version.

[chrome tide]

I am debating PLA or PETG.. But no I have not started yet..

[surreal iron]

I’ll ping the beta channel when I update it.

[warm basalt]

have a look at silvertel.com for their poe modules. there’s clones of it available but the original silvertel modules are widely available on big distributors

the modules are much smaller than the long ones designed to plug in sideways to a router pcb

[nova frost]

I've been eyeing them up. Silvertel is a UK company(!).

The clones actually look more attractive in some cases.

[surreal iron]

You’ve already been in the beta channel.

[hollow dragon]

aloha, ready to do my femtofox install. any advice on the most recent stable version and where to get it? i'm currently running 3 other meshtasticd nodes. mahalo for making femtofox! CAN'T wait to play with it...

[polar ingot]

I'ts mildly complicated to install the latest/time consuming. Depends if you need sensors?

[hollow dragon]

no need sensors- have network time. alpha pro

[polar ingot]

then just flash 1.0, do "sudo femto config" to set your settings and then sudo apt update && sudo apt upgrade -y and you should be on latest stable

[hollow dragon]

Before i was a nurse i was in IT. nurse geek... MAHALO

[polar ingot]

W00t w00t! femto is so fun

I've actually been putting off meshtastic for so many years, but when I heard about the femtofox I had to jump in. Linux makes it fun

[surreal iron]

Options

[frozen cloud]

I think the 2nd one just looks funny and isn’t exactly supportive of something we’re to bump it

[surreal iron]

Well the good news is all three are available.

[fast adder]

I love the partially recessed knob, among other things. Nice!

[mild hare]

@surreal iron Left is blocked by rtc 😢

Top is epic

I like rear because i could use it vertically as well as on desk

[surreal iron]

Not anymore!

[mild hare]

ohhhh

[frozen cloud]

Sh1t

[mild hare]

All the things, please

[chrome tide]

I want a resin case when I order my next one, how much.. ;P

[twilit mountain]

So it's longer? 😎 Not a bad change

[surreal iron]

Extended cab version. 10mm extra in the front.

[frozen cloud]

That’s what she said

[chrome tide]

So junk in the front, not the trunk.. ;P j/k

[mild hare]

gimme a few weeks

[twilit mountain]

Given any thought to incorporating an MicroSD card extender? 🙏

[chrome tide]

Top mount, please.. ;P

[twilit mountain]

Especially since there's no way to update foxbuntu itself ota 😜

[surreal iron]

Probably could do pretty easily.

[chrome tide]

They are working on it.. 😉

[twilit mountain]

You say that, but all I've seen use a ribbon cable 😁 which is pretty limiting

Basically stuck just putting it in the same horizontal plane as the fox itself (if that makes any sense at all lol)

[surreal iron]

Well I do have an extender for a different project I'm working on that I can try to incorporate. It's pretty flexible.
https://a.co/d/4pP1YlI

[twilit mountain]

Ahh that looks a lot beefier than the crap I'm used to dealing with

The paper thin FPC $1 AliExpress special 😅 easy to beat that quality

[chrome tide]

I have that style SD extender..

[mild hare]

there is one that has 2 screw holes on amazon that I have seen too

https://a.co/d/gcnS09i

[chrome tide]

rotary, oled, and Open Source Country's SD extender ordered.. I can use them for other projects is AlleyCat doesn't adopt them.

[mild hare]

dremel!

[obsidian thorn]

So when is 1.1 coming out with i2c support?

[mild hare]

Maybe Friday. If not then, probably sometime next week. We're all pretty busy but I need it too. 😁

[surreal iron]

If you give me the specs for the screw hole spacing and the slot, I’ll add it.

[neat frigate]

I have the same one here somewhere, to be used for LuckFox Lyra (just the camera port might be issue)

[chrome tide]

Perfect, I'll get them to you once I have them.

[twilit mountain]

That was only released in the Meshtastic Alpha channel 2 days ago 😅 And foxbuntu tracks with the Beta channel

[mild hare]

I'll name it foxbuntu_super_secret_squirrel_i2c_prototype.img 😁

[polar ingot]

Updating from the alpha daily builds is actually super easy now that we have it figured. I just add the PPA and update

way faster then the first few times I did it on other boards too

but it breaks OLED support (something to do with tft support)

[nova frost]

Broken for now. It's a moving target.

[polar ingot]

well yes, its linux afterall

nothing is ever completely broken

[obsidian thorn]

now is the main question 🤣
Will it run a nvidia gpu?

[opaque abyss]

With what pcie bandwidth lmao

Although...

Startech makes a usb-a to vga adapter which I think is a tiny gpu

[nova frost]

I meant the firmware.

It's just a passing problem with the fw.

[lusty prairie]

25ah 3.7v in lithium ion, 10w in solar, mppt.
This enough power to run it? Pacific Northwest area

[nova frost]

https://tenor.com/view/its-alive-national-geographic-its-electric-power-juiced-up-gif-19133911

Time to find out, I think!

[dire shuttle]

FWIW, it took me 10W to get a T114 to stay alive over winter

I had a 6W panel up and the node died about a week in

Also PNW

[mild hare]

I used 6w for RAK19007 over winter here.

[dire shuttle]

I think that works if you have a clear LOS south

[mild hare]

Northern Coast California

[dire shuttle]

... or are 500 miles farther south

[mild hare]

coast is difficult sometimes because fog and overcast but all was good

[dire shuttle]

500 was not a bad estimate, apparently

[mild hare]

nice

I have friends up there

[dire shuttle]

It's a nice area if you hate the sun

I think something like two of three days have rain

And then you have eastern WA, which is literally a desert

More foxes for US users still Coming Soon (tm)?

[mild hare]

yup almost done

[dire shuttle]

Yay

One of the links I want to set up is going to require 1W radios on each end

Between my house and my in-laws'

[mild hare]

at least one person was in a congested area and needed a filter btw. Just a heads up

[dire shuttle]

Makes sense since there's an LNA

I've got two cavity filters from ACASOM, so I can at least A/B test that

[neon sandal]

Trying to flash a Luckfox Pico mini

While I am waiting for my Femtofox I thought I would buy a Pico mini to practice flashing it. It is not like any other device with normal one x.img file. Instead it have multiple x.img files, like one for each function of Linux. I followed the instructions using WIndows and Linuc and got the same results. I don't understand why there are two ip's. When I ping the root it pins ok but the user ip never works. When I tr to login to root it says "not allowed" or something like that. Maybe my Luckfox pico mini B is not well in the head. Or maybe I am getting too old for this stuff 🙂

[mild hare]

i havent used a B but I know you have to erase the nand to get it to boot our image

[nova frost]

@forest current do you have some simple instructions on erasing the flash?

[mild hare]

and for ours it is one single .img file

https://github.com/femtofox/femtofox/releases

https://github.com/femtofox/femtofox/wiki

[neon sandal]

Will that image work on a pico mini that is not installed in the FemtoFox. I should just be patient and wait for the FemtoFox. But I hate to lose and I spent hours trying to do it. I'll research again erasing the nand, thanks.

The only dif in the A and the B is onbaord storage.

[mild hare]

it will work

[neon sandal]

So mine must be defective because I tried it before thinking is should work even if there are errors about the missing lora etc.

[mild hare]

it may complain but should work

i have done it

[neon sandal]

Yes exactly

I'll try again a log my steps in my notebook.

[mild hare]

are you comnecting via serial?

[neon sandal]

Do I have to erase the nand before attempting the femtofox install?

[mild hare]

otherwise it wont boot the micro sd card

[neon sandal]

Yes serial, USB

So erase the nand put the image on the sd and boot.

[mild hare]

should be the ticket

[neon sandal]

Will kick the football again...

[forest current]

No, Ive never owned a B, and for the Lyra I just used their Windows program as I was trying to figure out how it all worked

I have instructions for formatting the flash for storage, but for erasing the flash I think on Windows you just use their program, or on Linux there is the rkflash utility in the sdk

luckfox-pico/tools/rkflash.sh iirc (i dont remember which argument is for erase off top of my head though)

[safe night]

What is the difference between the 1.1 board and the 1.2 board other than the foxhole?

[nova frost]

Literally just that. The 1.1 has 2x11 headers, the 1.0 had two sets of single row.

[neon sandal]

Luckfox uses the Soctoolkit.exe. But it never sees the Pico as a usb device. I could get it to see an sd and to write the files for their linux onto the sd. But never was able to login. What is the ip and account to login to the Femtofox after booting?

[fast adder]

femtofox.local femto:femto

[twilit mountain]

@fiery finch @nova frost Ya'll need to make this a bit more obvious. Took me a while to find it burried in the GitHub wiki too 😅

Should really be in the readme 🙏

[neon sandal]

I don't see how femtofox.local will resolve if I am not on the same sub-net as the femtofox. At least in linux the rndis driver does not automagically give you a ip on the femtofox lan. Even in winows you have to go in a pick an ip on the rndis interface. right?

[opaque abyss]

did you not see this line in the login shell?

[twilit mountain]

SSH or die, I'd never see that

[opaque abyss]

resolving femtofox.local is dependent on your local network, the image just sets 'femtofox' as the hostname (like how raspberry pis default their hostname as well)

figuring out the IP would be your own responsibility, and can easily be found on the router's DHCP lease table

[opaque abyss]

aye thats fair

my femto isn't on the network so I'm using serial

[neon sandal]

My router knows nothing about whatever subnet the rndis driver is on.

[opaque abyss]

I never got rndis working on my sketchy networking setup. If I want networking I have to go plug it into the server room away from my PC and SSH in

cant do network and IRL experiments on it together

it's a hassle

[neon sandal]

The standard luckfox pic mini images they supply say root on 172.38.0.93 and user on 172.38.0.77

When I flash the standard luckfox image(s) I can ping it at 172.38.0.93 after putting my machine on an address in that subnet on that interface.

That is one of the problems of open source. There are always 20 different ways of doing things and if everyone is not on the same page there is no chance of communications:)

I don't see how I can put this little thing on 802.11 because the usbc is used for power. It does not have wireless built in, I don't think, So I would have to power it some other way to free up the usb c for a wifi dongle. Am I in one of the other earth multiverses by accident?

I think it must be toast. I am not seeing anything now with lsusb or ifconfig -a

[mild hare]

i use a usb to serial adpater and also use the power from that to power the fox and then plug a usb-c otg adapter in for usb wifi dongle

[neon sandal]

So you solder the USB to serial onto rxtx pins on the pico mini? Also when use linux mint image writer to write the femtofox.img to the card there is no typical partitions visible after it completes. Normally if I was writing a lunix distro image to a usb key after completion I see all the normal partitions created during the image write.

[mild hare]

there is no partition table

Balena etcher cries about it but I just hit next

[mild hare]

huh, ignore the colors lol. looks like an adapter I patched together

[neon sandal]

OK I am using the DIsk image writer in Linux mint and it looks like nothingi is written to card. At least Linux Mint can't see anything on the card and the card can't be mounted to look inside.. I'll find Balena etcher and see if it does something different.

I am unable to download Balena Etcher it fails extracting saying there is a dangerous link. Tried it multple time and multiple downloads.

[mild hare]

this is normal no partition table so it wont see anything just boot it

[neon sandal]

So I think the Disk Image Writer is working but since there is no USB Network RNDIS driver I get no network interface via USB. So if I power it separatlely and use a USB wifi dongle, if I have one that works with the drivers in the distro, I should be able to see something. So this was usefull while waiting for the FEMTOFOX. Stop talking to me and get the boards done 🙂

[chrome tide]

I hope I can get both of the boards I need ordered at the same time from Etsy.. The 1 board goes out of stock a lot.. ;P MeshAdv..

[neon sandal]

I was watching nomdetom and he put them up at 11am and only had 5 left in the afternoon. I don't know how many he started with.

I am really glad that OSC and Tom are getting their investment back fast. It is a service to the community and they take a risk with each round.

[chrome tide]

Yea, it's both a curse and a blessing.. 😉

Especially w/ the 150-200% tariffs in the US..

[mild hare]

Doin it to infect the space with solar mesh linux. I'd make more flipping burgers 😛

[lavish sorrel]

I'm trying to recall but I'm almost positive I didn't have to wipe NAND before booting any of my B's after the initial one that I was testing with. Honestly, I don't think I've wiped them (minus 1) at all and they're working ok.

I know for a fact I didn't wipe the Lyra and that boots ok.

[lusty prairie]

any word on when a new image is going to land here?
https://github.com/femtofox/femtofox/releases/latest

[chrome tide]

Prolly not till the code change that will break scripts..

[spring juniper]

I thought I was overkill at 20W in DC/VA/MD area and so far that hasn't been the case... couple of cloudy days strung together will wipe out my 20ah pack no problem

[lusty prairie]

Thanks for the heads up here

[mild hare]

wifi on?

[spring juniper]

definitely - my mppt is limited to 1A charging I think too - so maybe not the best comparison

[mild hare]

yeah this all makes sense.

[spring juniper]

but I've had a couple "where did my node go moments"

[mild hare]

oof. Ya the wifi on all the time is rough

[spring juniper]

surpised it was just battery

I think I measured right at 1W draw with wifi on.... forget if I measured w/o

[mild hare]

bluetooth networking is a thing I played with (on another device, rpi 0) but range and bandwidth are meh

[spring juniper]

yeah I'd rather buy more batteries than deal with BLE range again

[hollow narwhal]

Hey guys.. what would be your recommended way to get something equivalent to this on the femtofox? https://store.rakwireless.com/products/rak1906-bme680-environment-sensor

I want it for a router we are putting up that is the lynch pin in a massive long line connection. And we would love weather info on it. We already do this with our rak based routers on various P1500 points in our topo

[quasi onyx]

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EQNrLvG

[hollow narwhal]

How badly do I eat the tariffs and does it justify amazon +7 dollars for prime overnight

[quasi onyx]

Tarrifs 🤷‍♀️

If u can get it on Amazon then get it from there

[hollow narwhal]

For sure

Ordered

6 of them for 1 watt routers

6 GPS modules haha

[nova frost]

Is that GPS for time only?

I know it's kind of neat to be tha confident in the time source, but the ds3231 is +-3ppm

[nova frost]

https://github.com/femtofox/femtofox/wiki/Getting-Started#initial-configuration---suggested-workflow

[warm basalt]

hey, i was gonna start making and selling my own hardware, i see that femtofox is selling on etsy; i suppose that means devices are built personally then stocked at home(?) for shipping out on etsy?

i was looking at seeed fusion and oshwlab as ways to get the pcba fabs to just directly make them and send them to people because i don't want to end up in a warehousing and shipping out kinda situation.

seeed seems viable while oshwlab seems strictly for easyeda designs and i don't want to deal with porting things in from kicad each time.

sorry if this is tangential to the channel, feel free to DM me if it's OT

actually i have no interest in ending up in a commercial situation, but it seems like getting mainline meshtastic support means i need to have some kind of retail availability? otherwise i don't make the bar for having the firmware built by meshtastic buildbots?

trying to find a way that there aren't unnecessary "value add" layers and costs, etc. but I can still get a (hopefully) useful design into people's hands with official builds..

[quasi onyx]

Yup

Most come pre assembled from jlc

Only the luckfox is manually added

Afaik

I will be doing similar thing and will be stocking at home

[warm basalt]

I see. Pity there isn't a turnkey option (other than Seeed Fusion). I might try to get my stuff on Seeed Fusion, I'm not sure if it is ethically acceptable to drop ship assembled PCBs from JLC while offering it on an Etsy store

but i can also see that there are people who prefer to pay me to have me get the JLC parts done for them... 😐

[quasi onyx]

Whats wrong in shipping them from home? Atleast to start?

Iirc seeed takes 30% from what u make

[hollow narwhal]

Its for time and location. While it is stationary we do want to know if it moves or falls etc. So we want to wake it up to broadcast a location every 6 to 8 hours.

All of the routers I post are weather stations and it looks like others in our network are upgrading to that too. It's cool to see the weather changer in different parts of the state haha

[nova frost]

You can go the order-from-jlc route, but people would be buying in multiples of 5, or 5 PCBs, with 1 or 2 assembled. It would be subject to delays and shipping restrictions, e.g. current tariff situation.

Etsy don't like dropshippers, either.

Not sure how they treat people dropshipping their own stuff, tho.

Elecrow have a ship-from-china store.

I looked at it for Femtofox, but I'm not sure it is worth the hassle, compared to stocking 10-20 and shipping from home.

Honestly, I'm hoping we can get a bit of a network of people going, so stuff doesn't take as long to make or ship.

Soldering 1-5 boards, one time, is fun. Soldering 20 is a bit tedious.

[quasi onyx]

Yeeeee

Can confirm doing 10 WashTastics 😅

[neon sandal]

My problem is that the instructions make a lot of assumptions. I noted in our previous conversation there needs to be first a statement about the power supply and the networking assumptions. Power needs to be connected thus and networking thus. Alternative networking RNDIS thus. Especially since the Luckfox Pico mini info is based primarily on RNDIS Networking over USB. WHich it this case is a lot easier than having to apply power without using the USB-C as the source. Second is it is all Windows based. Who uses WIndows, really? 🙂

[warm basalt]

I mostly use my MHP30 which may explain why my designs are so small 😂

The SMT is not just for JLC, it’s also for me haha. Don’t enjoy through hole soldering because of the cleaning and time

[nova frost]

Yeah, I've got a Sequre t55 which is the cheaper clone of that. I've made the Femtofoxes on that, but anything bigger would need a bigger plate, I think.

[nova frost]

Rndis isn't really the primary method of access, because we usually want access to usb for other purposes. It's included because it might be useful to someone. Using usb power and a usb device together is awkward unless you have the pro version, in which case you have the usb-serial port.
As for assuming you're on windows, I'm not sure that's a base assumption. Maybe I did assume folk with windows would need help, and Linux users would be a superior breed, capable of finding their own way? 😉

[mild hare]

@warm basalt

Then there is assembling, quality control, booting them all and sending test meshtastic messages, packaging, etc. It's not like I'm making them from scratch but it aint drop shipping. If you can find a way to drop ship, DO IT! lol

Not including demo units, 154 were done like this. Just realize it will cut into your life hard if you do it at home.

[chrome tide]

You have a life ?! ;P

[neon sandal]

Not to mention the good things breathing that solder smoke does for you.

[mild hare]

I recommend binging motivation videos.

[chrome tide]

I just exhale when soldering.. ;P

[mild hare]

https://tenor.com/view/batman-im-gif-27534881

I have to manage it sorta like this

When everyone goes to sleep "gotham needs me"

Serious though, the delusions you have to tell yourself to push through to the finish line are something else.

[chrome tide]

Oh trust me, I know.. I've had to do full builds before..

[mild hare]

Yeah, I bought a decent fume extractor after the first 30.

[chrome tide]

You didn't just make one ? ;P

[mild hare]

Haha I have the parts for one and just had no time.

[quasi onyx]

My only place to do stuff is at home 😅

[mild hare]

you have my respect in advance

[chrome tide]

OH C'MON BATMAN!!! ;P

[mild hare]

Without Bruce there is no batman

https://tenor.com/view/mad-max-dog-amused-gif-22724037

Ok, speaking of, when this cup of coffee is done gotta go play farmer in the garden.

Future uncertain

[mild hare]

I dont use windows and only used NDIS when I got my first pico. I have not used NDIS since.

Serial or ethernet is usually how I do it. The femtofox pro has built in usb-c for power and serial and makes it way easier.

I'm hoping tonight I can finish and get stocked. 🤞

ok, I'm off

[quasi onyx]

cya xd

[nova frost]

You reap what you sow, but in a good way.

[warm basalt]

Haha, if you need someone in southeast asia building and shipping these, let me know 😛

I feel like this might actually be a great retirement hobby for my ex-dentist mom

Wait, wasn't there built-in ethernet on one of these luckfox boards?
Edit: Oh wait, that is what is being used

Sorry, I was thinking of Wi-Fi. I moved and my window and LAN are no longer close by, else I would buy a Femtofox

[nova frost]

Yeah, the Pico Max has the port built in, but I think we worked out it had higher power consumption and was 3x the price.

[warm basalt]

Oh, fair enough, I see

[nova frost]

By freeing up the usb port, you can add a WiFi adapter (using an otg connector)

[warm basalt]

Y'all not considering an Ampak module (or at least footprint for one) in a future rev?

[nova frost]

Not that specifically, but I've got some plans in the pipeline

[warm basalt]

I see. If you have SDIO pins, then Ampak modules are what many off-brand Pis are using

[nova frost]

We're very constrained on Io, even on the larger moduels

The challenge has been finding something that is actually low power

And not just a terrible processor with mediocre power use.

[warm basalt]

Oh, the Ampak module is just the wifi itself, you would still keep the luckfox board

https://wiki.luckfox.com/Luckfox-Pico/Luckfox-Pico-RTL8723bs/

looks like this module could be used essentially directly wired by means of a footprint https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32495116310.html

[nova frost]

Yeah, the SD card is needed for the OS

But I've been exploring options like that module you linked

[hollow narwhal]

I'm NGL. I might buy 10 of your stock right off the shelf

🤣 a new even more insane set of stretch goals have been thought up

Connecting the legit popular back country so there's 100% coverage in winter

But this is the average terrain so. Gonna be a fun challenge haha

Full disclosure found that on ddg

I love riding out in the Mt wolverine backcountry bowl at night blasting nights in white satin. Skiing at nights is the most amazing thing ever tbch. Especially with no light pollution and a you can see a true night sky haha. Anyways I will be hitting that refresh button haha. It would be a massive boost to safety if we all had a continuous connection together valley and front. Could be valuable in an emergency

I do have a question. I need to make sure my boost converter will work for my 50 Ah LTO scraped pack.. Does anyone know the absolute max draw of the femtofox board say may e with some sensors like a bme280 and GPS?

Rtc too I guess

I saw it has a typical of 0.27w-0.4w. I'm just curious if Input voltage: 0.9-5V, output voltage: 5V, maximum output current: 480 mA is enough oomph or if I should add a backup vreg for extra big pulls

[hollow narwhal]

Worst case I'll TR it (3 in parallel for triple redundancy) and hope for the best

This node is going to be somewhere extremely harsh. At the edge of the GSL.. On a peak that routinely plummets to - 30 F on avg in the winter. Gets covered in 8 ft of pack minimum and sees 130-160 mph winds during most storms. So it's gotta be a tank. Haha

I literally cannot get to it easily without snowshoes and skis in winter

[quasi onyx]

the 1W lora module can pull like 700mA when txing at max power

cant remember the exact max amperage

[hollow narwhal]

Okay, so I think I'll put three in parallel then, and I think 1,500 milliamps should be enough.

[nova frost]

Max draw will be less than 2A, because that's what I specced the fuse at 😉

[hollow narwhal]

Lol. That tells me what I need to know. Back to digikey

[nova frost]

It'll be less than 1A, actually, unless you're trying to feed it less than 5V

[hollow narwhal]

Gotta make an upgraded vreg and I might as well temp compensate to - 55 C myself. LTO batteries I have... Proved I can charge them below - 40 F in the thermal chamber at work

[nova frost]

A usb peripheral can drive that up massively, tho

[hollow narwhal]

Which is insane but also perfect for the insanity it will face

[nova frost]

I found a WiFi adapter that took 600mA continuously

[hollow narwhal]

So will another node that's near a type S IFF repeater

The military built that place like a tank and I found out why. Last wasatch down slope wond event it saw just shy of Mount Washington's wind speed record

😂 and we put a node up there

Those poor raks

Mountains are a blessing and a curse. Lugging 100 lbs of concrete up with a MTB and a cargo bike is a hilarious endeavour

[nova frost]

That set of i2c sensors shouldn't be high power draw, tho. They're typically festooned with LEDs that draw more power than the sensor.

[hollow narwhal]

I will be disabling WiFi and just about everything except lora, sensor, GPS. I also will be completely disabling all but the LAN port and desoldering the USB. We want if it's capture to be at least annoying to do anything to. Locking down ssh to public keys on my nitrokeys

We thought of LTE at one point but too much power

[nova frost]

Not to do us out of a sale, but we hadn't envisaged these being the exclusive hardware for a mesh. The original intent had been a few of these in a mesh, possibly syncing (or not), and running a BBS or messaging system, or other over-the-top service.

[hollow narwhal]

The node doesn't need those things cuz it'd on a 8900 ft peak in the middle of the Great Salt Lake haha

Oh we know. It's why we like the. They give us the ability to go out. Plug ethernet into a laptop. Switch the config and make a BBS relay

But autonomous

[nova frost]

Raspberry Pis are nice, but they're very power hungry, far too much to be on anything less than a full-size panel and battery setup.

[hollow narwhal]

Stupidly power hungry. Honestly the RPI og zeros OK. The rpi2 is the best for the task

But armhf is dumb

Has issues

With some of the python stuff

[hollow narwhal]

So funny enough. We are hacking open old Helium miners. Ripping out the concentrators. And I'm designing a 1 watt USB node for those rn

They have a cm3 inside

We got them for 20 bucks each lmfao

[nova frost]

Yeah, I've seen the openwrt stuff. I'm just happy to see the helium stuff being used for something worthwhile.

Swords to ploughshares 😉

[nova frost]

They're not going for that now 🤣

[neon sandal]

Does the femtofox support any I2C displays?

[nova frost]

Yes - standard oled has been tested

[neon sandal]

What meshtastic is running on the Femto? Cli, mestasticd? Remember I know nothing about this stuff just trying to figure it out.

[nova frost]

Meshtasticd, which shows up as portduino in the app

[neon sandal]

So the typical .96" but no inkhub displays. Thanks

Thanks and sorry for the dumb questions

[nova frost]

Yep, although I've not been able to find 0.96" recently, they've all been 1.3".

[nova frost]

No dumb questions here.

[neon sandal]

I used to design and build hobby drones and we used them all the time. I still see them on Amazon US for about $6

I like the blue and yellow for meshastic because the op line of info is highlighted in the yellow.

I have been trying to figure out how to regularly purge mail from the BBS and clear out old Bulletins. Can I install the cli and write a python script to do those tasks while everything else is running?

[hollow narwhal]

Got ahead of the game. I knew what was coming

We all got what we needed

[hollow narwhal]

Definitely no dumb questions. Anyways thanks. I'm redesigning power delivery. I will spin my own board in the future. I'm going to do a triple redundant round robin loaded MT3608 for boost and the same but with LM2596Cs for Buck from the solar panel

That way if one or even 2 fails the node keeps operating. I'll use the ADCs to monitor these lines

Alert over metastatic on a loss of a rail

I imagine nobody thought they'd see that kind of redundancy feeding the battery and feex the femtofox when the designed these things haha

But man I do wish for a bit more break out. I wonder if I can solder to some pins. Nom any clues you might be able to give?

[fast adder]

Which BBS are you running?

[neon sandal]

TC2

[hollow narwhal]

Interesting. We have been poking around the meshing around. Anyone know what's most reliable and feature rich?

[fast adder]

You probably need to ask @craggy mulch . Sounds possible since it shouldn’t need the client API.

[neon sandal]

It appears he is out storm chasing 🙂

[craggy mulch]

I wish... Putting up drywall right now 😂

[neon sandal]

To my limited time reading. I appears for rural communities liike mine hilltop BBS is the way to make meshtastic useful. But with real use it needs maintenance.

[nova frost]

I'll be back in a couple of hours to discuss this further. Gotta wash some kids first...

[chrome tide]

Almost as dangerous!

[neon sandal]

You mean you guys have life off the internet? 🙂

[chrome tide]

Like OSC says.. I'm Batman..

[craggy mulch]

The included db_admin.py is a Python script that lets you manually manage the database. You could use that as a starting point to automate it

[neon sandal]

I saw that when i read throught the GIthub examples. But I know nothing about python. I installed the CLI on a workstation and was able to send commands to the BBS but it seems a python script on the same box would be more efficient. So I guess I will study python.

I want to say a big thank for all your hard work and time making videos. It is people like you and OSC and Tom that make the internet a real value for average people. It is a great place to learn new things.

[craggy mulch]

It's something I have planned. Just been hard to find time. Moved to a new home and getting my old one ready for sale. I'll be happy when it's over with and I'll have more time to work on stuff like that

[hollow narwhal]

Hah no worries man. Thanks for your help thus far

[neon sandal]

Can you folks confirm that if I plan my mesh properly. 40 miles of flat river valley with hill top BBS sync's and repeaters that I could really work for 500 users along that valley.

[hollow narwhal]

I wouldn't use repeaters

Unless you mean BBS repeaters/relays

[neon sandal]

It is not quite clear the difference between an repeater and a router in Meshtastic docs. Between two of the BBS the path analysis shows I might have a point that sticks up in the way a bit. So I thought a hop free repeater in the middle would do the job.

[hollow narwhal]

For the hill top I would make that BBS node a router first off. But around strategic points in the river valley around I'd place router lates that can relay local spots that are tough but have more than a few users

500 users is hard. You'll need short fast.

As for the difference between router and repeater. Your issue with repeater is if the repeater hears anything else rebroadcasting it wont

Router broadcasts first in the contention wind. If you want something that repeats and functions like a router but waits until the end of the contention window (well not end but I'm simplifying).. Then router_late. Basically once the routers and clients talked.. If it didn't get rebroadcast. It will consume a hop and do so

That's my understanding

[neon sandal]

Thanks.

[hollow narwhal]

No worries try to minimize your router use that includes router late

The more routers you have the higher the chance for collisions

[neon sandal]

Because the river valley is only a mile wide the whole 40 miles surronded by hiils it seems the well placed hilltop devices should cover all the little towns.

[hollow narwhal]

I would be incremental. Don't plan all on one go. Put the hill top router up. Roll around find dead zones. Correlate the deadzones with points high up but lower than the hill top for a router late

Then draw it in qgis or something and ask yourself hey does that make sense from an efficient network topology perspective

Use neighborinfo to see how things link

[neon sandal]

SInce I control everything. If I create a private channel as primary will normal longfast traffic be passed on in my mesh or only my new primary channel

Yes that is my plan. But it seems like a risk because all my effort might be fro naught

[hollow narwhal]

You need to put longfast on index 1

[neon sandal]

Most users will be line of sight with the BBS

[hollow narwhal]

And your priv chan on index 0

But here's the thing dude

We are pretty opsec about our remote nodes. Index 0 only. No priv channel that exposes the rests exact loc

But if you control the land its on yes

[neon sandal]

How does a private channel expose location. I will have no position enabled nodes.

I am concerned about security.

[hollow narwhal]

Well, if you don't, then it's fine. It's just we do, so we don't do that. And for us, we know that the device could be stolen since it's so remote. So we took the approach of, okay, well, how do we minimize any impact if this gets stolen?

So we just locked ourselves out once we had our proper settings and we gave ourselves a way back in if we were there locally, but it's still a pain.

It was a different approach. We just accepted ours could get stolen.

[neon sandal]

I wass wondering why the clients don't have a password because if a node is stolen the encryption is breached.

[hollow narwhal]

You can't rely on this to be super secure. I mean, the people that do, they need a reality check.

It's reasonably secure in that it's encrypted. So yes, it would be kind of a pain to do a real-time interception on demand. But physical security of these, that's a joke, don't even pretend.

And it's not a bad thing. It was never designed with that purpose in mind.

And from what I've seen, the actual security audits of the protocol, it has some issues such as no forward secrecy.

Maybe that's all documentation. I'm not sure, but the point is, don't have unreasonable expectations of the security of a mesh network. Also, the Russians did recently prove it's pretty easy to exploit. There are certain things you can do to the nodes to make them very easy to RF locate.

[neon sandal]

Well to casual theft my BBS nodes will be up on locked fiiretoers.

[hollow narwhal]

Well, in that case, you're not really that concerned with security. There are reasonable steps you've already taken. So yeah, you could probably put your own telemetry in there and not be too worried. But I have no idea. You said you were spreading them around villages, so I only assumed a hilltop might be a little bit remote and not owned by you.

[neon sandal]

But relativelyy speaking it is better than a remote location scraping everything off the internet.

[hollow narwhal]

Yeah, it's probably true. Our network doesn't use MQTT at all, so we have a relatively quiet little network. Little being very oxymoronic

[neon sandal]

But every user node is a risk right. If one was stolen, with a password on the node itself the psk is available right?

[hollow narwhal]

If they are in that channel yes

But like most things don't panic

Change the telemetry channel key

And update that other nodes

[neon sandal]

without a password I menat

[hollow narwhal]

Then the attacker has a dead key but he does have a cache of your telem

[hollow narwhal]

Oh dude serial is so easy to get on these

Passwords would be laughable

[neon sandal]

If i could type I'd be dangerous.

True. So understanding channels can the node operate on more than one channel at a time?

[hollow narwhal]

I understand the concern though. Don't worry too much. Consider this. What objective does an attacker have to break into a bunch of hobbyist nerds sending radio packets to each other with tidbits of reasonably easy to obtain information

[hollow narwhal]

Channels are the chat rooms so to speak. Think of it like subnet.. You can change the subnet of the other nodes if a node is compromised by changing the channel key

Then the compromised node cannot talk to you or decode your stuff and yes

You can haven't to 8 channels

I think

Telemetry is only ever sent on index 0 and 1

[neon sandal]

OK but that is a one at a time change. So if I am on a private channel does standard out of the box long fast clutter up my mesh

[hollow narwhal]

No but you need long fast to see the rest of the mesh