US CA Sac Valley & Foot Hills

[fickle wedge]

I got a kick out of it

[clear kestrel]

Oh and for privacy, I’m guessing you saw you either give your precise position or some where with in a diameter you set for privacy. I’m using .9mi

[fickle wedge]

Yep

I plan to set it similarly

But the RAK router has no GPS so it will be that setting that comes from the phone

[clear kestrel]

It might already have a location if you ever connected it to your iOS app AND had “share location” turned on in “app settings”

Have you added an admin channel for your router yet?

[fickle wedge]

Nope

[clear kestrel]

If you add a channel named “admin” to both/all of your devices, with the same psk, you can manage their settings over Lora via the iOS app.

[fickle wedge]

Another thing I have yet to get going

Since my side of the mesh is small without any satellite repeaters I have not seen the need to get it going yet

I have I think parts for 7 nodes, but so far only have one router up and 2 client nodes

[clear kestrel]

It saves you from having to connect your other devices to your iOS app, which makes you lose all your messages, and discovered nodes I believe. And if not that, have to retrieve it to hook up to your pc to make changes, which can be a pain, depending on how far away it is.

It looks like the only thing you can’t do remotely over Lora, is modify channels. Someone tell me how if you can.

[boreal creek]

I'm on then fence about this as for how much I care. Normally I'm a bit of a privacy nut, but eh... you guys seem normal. haha

[spare garden]

you can.

(the usual way, in settings)

[clear kestrel]

Did you add your admin channel via CLI?

[spare garden]

I haven't used the CLI (other than for --noproto) in a looong time. all android for me.

[clear kestrel]

Grayed out in my settings

But I can change everything else. 🤨

[spare garden]

@next wharf wut

[clear kestrel]

Calling in the big guns

[next wharf]

You can't manage channels over the admin channel

[spare garden]

I'm currently attempting it

[next wharf]

Android allows it, it fails and leaves devices unable to comm

Like 25% of the time, so not good enough for me

[spare garden]

doing a reboot too for safe measure

[next wharf]

Make sure you have a hop in there, kind of pointless direct

[spare garden]

does it have anything to do with the new firmwares? 👀

[next wharf]

No

[spare garden]

or do you mean sometimes the multiple packets get lost?

[clear kestrel]

@trim veldt @fickle wedge Thanks for the assist Joe. And you’re not even up on the hill yet! That’s my longest path yet.

[boreal creek]

What's your hop count set to? 7?

[clear kestrel]

For now. Especially since two are eaten up just to get out of my cave. When we start getting busy with more nodes and traffic I'll turn it down if I can reach my intended target.

[boreal creek]

@spare garden , were you joking or being serious about putting the current time out on the mesh yesterday.

Cuz I'm pouring through the docs now. 🤣

[spare garden]

much srs

[spare garden]

did you find it yet

[boreal creek]

No, and then work took priority

[spare garden]

https://meshtastic.discourse.group/t/mandate-date-time-update-on-devices-without-gps-or-rtc/2101 for quick and easy anwers

[boreal creek]

Discourse? And here I was looking on the main Meshtastic site like a chump

[spare garden]

the Meshtastic cli automagically sends the time too unless you tell it not to

[spare garden]

many things are still waiting for people to document 😆

[boreal creek]

Bro, and here I was talking yesterday about wanting more details documented, and you said it was all there.

LOL

[spare garden]

in the sauce

other ways of timekeeping: wifi (ntp), cellphone...

[boreal creek]

Yeah, I haven’t looked at the sauce. And TBH, my skillset would make going through that a bit of a stretch

I do quick and dirty scripts, and learned a tiny bit of reverse engineering and malware analysis for fun.

[spare garden]

I used to do reverse engineering and analysis back when I was computer literate

... mainly to crack/pirate software... for my own use!

[boreal creek]

Haha, yeah. The good old days

[spare garden]

currently trying to reverse engineer the uniden bcd536hp firmware for the past ~2 years, but in reality I haven't done anything yet because I don't know how. cryptography be hard srs business 🫠

[boreal creek]

Reversing for what purpose? To perhaps make a mod or custom firmware?

[spare garden]

can't seem to find any cryptography experts in my circle, though there is a rocket scientist or two

[spare garden]

for remote control stuff

I want to integrate wifi and gps in one USB dongle

[boreal creek]

Crypto is hard, so true experts are few and far between

[spare garden]

I've already managed to push gps through the stock wifi dongle, but I want moaaaar

[boreal creek]

I should say “hard to do right”

[fickle wedge]

Alright @boreal creek @clear kestrel I set up position on the router and re-ordered the default channel

Can you see where it is?

[boreal creek]

I don't seem to have a position for you yet.

[spare garden]

who be REBL

and why upgraded to 2.3

also, i suggest a non-default mqtt topic if you want to enable uplink

there is already a msh/US/bayarea if you want to join in

[fickle wedge]

What is an example non-default MQTT topic

I dunno this newfangled MQTT bizness

😄

Could I create msh/US/sacvalley

Is that the right convention

[spare garden]

that works too, as long as everyone in the same area joins

[fickle wedge]

I don't even know what it means to "join"

<-- noob, if not obvious

[spare garden]

"uses the same setting"

if you use the default mqtt channel, things like this can happen (neighbor links/lines thousands of miles long to unrelated nodes)

almost all the links you see here are due to old firmware on the default mqtt topic... false links.

[fickle wedge]

I guess there should be consensus among us here

Because I see topics already for my city and county

[clear kestrel]

I have no idea what you guys are talking about.

[fickle wedge]

What is a good frequency for position updates for a stationary node?

@spare garden I think I enabled and set up my client node for MQTT uplink under topic msh/US/sacvalley

[clear kestrel]

I tried replying to you on the default channel.

[fickle wedge]

how do I look at a map for that? The meshmap only seems to be default

I did not get it @clear kestrel

None of my traceroutes are working at the moment.

[clear kestrel]

I see Elk Grove South on the map

EGS1

[fickle wedge]

cool

[clear kestrel]

I have my broadcast interval set to 1 hour on my stationary PGR node. Figure 24 times a day isn’t too much and will likely reach someone on a hike to a peak or something like that. I can increase the time between broadcasts as the channel gets more busy.

What are other people’s thoughts on broadcast interval?

[spare garden]

longer is okay. nodes will request nodeinfo from other nodes they haven't seen before

[clear kestrel]

What do you use?

[spare garden]

3 hours

when the mesh gets bigger i may bump it to 6 hours

[clear kestrel]

Yeah, I’ll trend that way as we progress.

[clear kestrel]

I think I had 25 nodes this morning. I’m at 29 right now.

[spare garden]

i had 88 but my rak derp'd its config last night and now i have like 13

oh 29 now

[boreal creek]

Someone flipped the switch, it seems.

New (to me) nodes.

I ordered parts for a solar node last night and believe I have a workable solution for mounting it on the eaves of my 2nd story roofline. So that should help.

Already have a couple 915mhz antennas to try (belong to the roomate, were used for Helium) before I order one of my own. But I expect the RAK will take a couple/few weeks to arrive.

[fickle wedge]

I thought that was a reasonable time frame, and that's what my router is set to.

[clear kestrel]

@trim veldt I got your message, but my replies aren’t reaching you. What battery did you end up getting for your hilltop, solar node?

@fickle wedgeWhat is that little green heart next to your name?

[fickle wedge]

It means I just joined this discord server

[clear kestrel]

Oh, welcome 🤪

[fickle wedge]

I was poking around in here looking for this channel but couldn't find it till you gave me the direct link

prior to that someone gave me the link but I had not yet joined Meshtastic Discord Server so it was not doing anything

[clear kestrel]

Oh, gotcha.

[fickle wedge]

I thought i needed a special invite link like the other discords I am part of

None of my traceroutes work anymore on my DM7 node

But I see messages to public

[clear kestrel]

I either have to go pull my PGR node down before it rains or plastic bag it. I don't have all my parts for my waterproof enclosure yet.

[fickle wedge]

They work fine on the DM1 node

@clear kestrel I'm going to try to send you a direct, lemme know here if you get it

[clear kestrel]

Ok

[fickle wedge]

sent

oh I got your reply, but it's doubling up

or tripling up 😄

[clear kestrel]

Ooops. It looks in received on my end.

I sent it 3 times. So that makes sense.

[fickle wedge]

What's weird is I also got the old message from a while back

[clear kestrel]

I didn’t get your message

Are you relaying traffic though your pole mounted node?

[fickle wedge]

Well, it's still flakey I would say but better than nothin'.

Yes, through the EGS1 pole-mounted router node

[clear kestrel]

Actually I just resent that because I saw it didn’t go through before.

[fickle wedge]

ah ok

Because of the proximity of the t-beam & the t-echo at home, sometimes the route is DM7 -> DM1 -> EGS1 -> PGR. So I am guessing this 3 hop limit is killed by my two clients so close to each other.

I thought that would be solved by making DM1 into "Client Mute" but at least one traceroute (before it stopped working today) showed a hop through DM1. 🤷‍♂️

[fickle wedge]

It rained pretty hard the same day I first put my EGS1 node up. Immediate test of the waterproofing 😅

[clear kestrel]

Your current hop limit is 3?

[fickle wedge]

Yep, default hop limit

I didn't want to create noise

But now reconsidering

[clear kestrel]

Seesh, I'm surprised you ever reached me

[fickle wedge]

ikr

I think I reached you by virtue all the other nodes having higher hop limits

[clear kestrel]

I don't think that's how it works

[fickle wedge]

Or does it go by the originating node setting the hop limit?

[clear kestrel]

Original. Just like APRS if you ever got into that.

[fickle wedge]

oh ok

I will set it to 5

Maybe that's why my traceroutes are dying

[clear kestrel]

At this stage in the game, congestion is our last concern. Crank it up until we have enough nodes to reliably pass messages over distance.

[fickle wedge]

Sent a msg to public

[clear kestrel]

Did you get my reply?

[fickle wedge]

"And I got you the first time."
"Nicely done."

[clear kestrel]

Yup

Sweet!

[fickle wedge]

did a tapback response

[clear kestrel]

Hasn’t come through

That’s not the norm though. Yesterday it took me 5 hops to get to you. I sent you a screen shot of that.

[fickle wedge]

Yeah that's pretty amazing

Confirmed. Finally one got through

[clear kestrel]

It’s crazy amazing what these little things can do with such little power.

[fickle wedge]

44 miles?

We're lucky to hit that on repeaters with VHF 5 watts

[clear kestrel]

Your router node in my node list is saying 39 miles.

Your dm7 node doesn’t list a distance for some reason.

[fickle wedge]

Yeah, position is not enabled on the DM7 node

But it's about 20 feet from EGS1 🙂

[clear kestrel]

Well that makes sense then 🤪

[fickle wedge]

I only turn on gps on that thing when I'm out and about, so that people who pick me up on my road trips can see how far I am at that point in time

[clear kestrel]

We should all at some point set up an encrypted channel to test that out.

[fickle wedge]

yes

[clear kestrel]

Hopefully we never need it, but if we do, that system needs to be in place.

I’m sure a grid down scenario is what drew a lot of us here.

[fickle wedge]

So far I use encrypted channels to talk to my self and "wake up" nodes from time to time 😜

[spare garden]

I think it's easiest to have a separate device dedicated to encrypted communication

[clear kestrel]

Me too

[fickle wedge]

Would be nice for us to have a sac valley node admins channel

[clear kestrel]

That’s a good idea. That way we’re not having to reconfigure our devices in a stressful situation.

[fickle wedge]

Every time I make a channel key I just save it into Standard Notes (encrypted notes platform). Now that JB taught me how to delete/re-order channels it's easy to re-add anything I created in the past.

I want to get my hands on a t-deck one day. or something newer that has the same self-sufficiency (no phone) but doesn't include a ESP32 to drain the battery so much. Would be nice to not rely on phones and just bring a device.

[spare garden]

someone needs to turn a t-deck or similar into an actual Meshtastic client that connects to a node via bt

[fickle wedge]

@spare garden I enabled MQTT and used root msh/US/sacvalley and turned on client proxy then enabled it in the default channel

but so far I don't know if it's doing anything

[spare garden]

what device? rak?

[fickle wedge]

T-echo

[spare garden]

oh, your phone needs to stay connected to it & internet for it to do its thing

[fickle wedge]

*enabled uplink only

But how do I even know it's doing its thing? I went to meshmap and there's nothing

Does meshmap only show default mesh

[spare garden]

https://meshmap.net/

updates every 5 minutes or so

[fickle wedge]

Yeah I ain't got nothin

[spare garden]

what's your node name? I can have a looksie

[fickle wedge]

I expected a pin at Elk Grove south of Sacramento

Node name is AD6DM-7

[spare garden]

can't see it yet

[fickle wedge]

I am switching it to msh/US/sacramentocounty

[foggy vine]

Hi I haven't been on in a while, glad to see a Sac channel. I am still working on my devices, I have two rak and one wireless tracker (that is not working yet). I have not see anyone around while using the rak devices, they aren't on all the time yet

[fickle wedge]

@clear kestrel oh noes, PGR down for rain? Who will I reach now? 😧 😜

[boreal creek]

Hey @foggy vine. Welcome! We’ve been having some moderate successes here in eastern Sac County, down to Elk Grove, and up to Pine Grove in the hills.

[foggy vine]

Hi @boreal creek I am in western placer county. A few days ago I was driving around and didn't pick up any signals. I was using a rak with Alfa 5db antenna. Hope to pick up a signal someday 😆

[boreal creek]

Cool!

Well make it up there… just need a few more nodes.

[clear kestrel]

Hi @foggy vine , every day new nodes are popping up. You might have to facilitate your connection to us by placing a node at a peak near you. That’s what I’ve had to do. Glad you joined us!

[spare garden]

plant a node, grow a mesh!

[clear kestrel]

I have had very little luck picking up nodes while mobile. I think an exterior antenna would help, but I think there is some aspect of saturation when gathering node info that requires time. I could be wrong.

[foggy vine]

Glad to be on here. I am currently working on building an outside stationary node, not sure how high I can place it but its will be a start!

[clear kestrel]

@trim veldt How was your drive to your office the other day? Pick up any more nodes?

[trim veldt]

No it was pretty uneventful

Unlike tonight’s lightning , that has been rather entertaining

I don’t know how often Lora nodes ping. I think unless someone was sending a message as you pass it wouldt show much

[clear kestrel]

I just drove up to Placerville. Not a single node.

[trim veldt]

Unlike WiFi that’s transmitting all the time

[clear kestrel]

That makes sense.

Have to be at the right place at the right time.

[trim veldt]

I dropped my node and it yanked the antenna wire. Hopefully it’s not wrecked. Got the message that I got out but didn’t see any replies

[clear kestrel]

The lightening in Placerville was pretty impressive too. I had to take down PGR prior to the storm because its enclosure is not water proof. I have a case but am waiting on a battery and water proof sma to ipex.

[trim veldt]

Been too busy with work this week to play radio

[clear kestrel]

We’ll be here when you’re ready. I saw your message about it being quiet.

I’m looking forward to your solar node going up.

Pick out a battery yet?

[trim veldt]

I was gone for 3 days and when I came back I saw no activity on default

[clear kestrel]

There was actually a fair bit of activity. You’re just not coming in strong yet.

[trim veldt]

Gotcha

I wonder if there is a way to see if my antenna cable broke

They are cheap I can just order another

Sma adapter

[clear kestrel]

@teal sierra and @fickle wedge are pretty solid now.

[trim veldt]

No I haven’t ordered the battery yet. I’ll do that tomorrow

[clear kestrel]

What makes you think it’s broke?

Can you check for continuity?

[trim veldt]

Yesterday was my 25th work anniversary party we had like 100 people there so I was just too busy to think about it

[clear kestrel]

Congrats on 25 years. I’m assuming it’s your company

[trim veldt]

The whole thing fell off my bench and the weight of the case was held by the cable

Yea. My company

[foggy vine]

Congrats @trim veldt

[trim veldt]

Thanks !

[clear kestrel]

I bet you’re good, but there is a ham somewhere in here that knows how to test it, but yeah, they are dirt cheap.

Your house is pretty bad ass. Looks like you’ve done well.

[spare garden]

anyone with more than a couple radios needs a nanovna

[clear kestrel]

I’ve been holding out, but I’m ready to pull the trigger.

[clear kestrel]

Yes, down until the rain passes.

I’m hoping it will force people to get better antennas and move their nodes higher 😜

[clear kestrel]

Damn. That’s some cold feedback.

[fickle wedge]

lol

Hi @trim veldt I replied to your message but I guess you didn't get it

[spare garden]

it's my standard response...

[clear kestrel]

Loved the “Thanks for the first contact” #Defeat

[fickle wedge]

my list says 33

nodes

but I know some of those are old

[fickle wedge]

I moved to default topic and showed up on the map

[clear kestrel]

I’ve yet to mess with MQTT. Do you have an Ethernet module for your rak?

[fickle wedge]

No, just using the connected phone as a client proxy

[clear kestrel]

Drove to Placerville and back. Did not see any nodes. I'm jonesing to get my PGR node back up. By Tuesday I should have everything I need to assemble a waterproof node.

[clear kestrel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff6AxDN9rRc

What are the odds of me finding your nodes on the internet???

I thought it was going to be click bait at first, but when I heard him say he was giving his nodes to a friend and that he was from Pennsylvania.....

[fickle wedge]

Yep, I got 3 echos and a RAK from him

He sold them for cheap 🙂

[boreal creek]

T-Echo’s are impossible to get. I’m still waiting on mine from AliExpress,

[fickle wedge]

@clear kestrel When is PGR going back up? If you need help waterproofing, I am willing to lend a hand where I can (enclosures, antennas, etc)

[clear kestrel]

I appreciate the offer. Everything I need will be here tomorrow. I might be able to put something up temporarily, here in a hour or so.

Were did you get the hardware to attach the board to the case?

And is that blue thing at the bottom a vent?

[boreal creek]

something like this maybe?

https://www.amazon.com/Breather-M12x1-5-10-Lighting-Condensation-Enclosure/dp/B0C328HWV7

I'm thinking about getting those for mine

[clear kestrel]

Thanks! Ordered

[fickle wedge]

I ordered the mounting board from The Comms Channel. My new boxes will probably just be a janky setup of either direct screw into the back grate or hot glue or ??

Since it's taking him a while to make that new PCB mounting board he talked about

[clear kestrel]

I was thinking hot glue.

[boreal creek]

I saw a video where they bought the official "RAKbox Acrylic Enclosure", drilled a couple holes and mounted it to the enclosure base, and then mounted the Wisblock to it.

Which is probably what I'll do.

[fickle wedge]

I mean, even zip ties will do the job

[clear kestrel]

If I could just get the baggy of stand offs and assembly screws I could probably jerry rig something

[fickle wedge]

If you have that enclosure that has the grid backing

[clear kestrel]

Yeah, I don't care if it's pretty

I do. I have the same one as you, except i have plastic latches

I'll go see if I have some baby zip ties. would you just zip tie over the board, or try to go through the 4 mounting holes?

[fickle wedge]

mounting holes

at least 2 of them.

[clear kestrel]

Tupperware node. Zip tied the board to a piece of packing foam and hot glued the foam to the Tupperware. I calked around the SMA, where it protrudes from the case. Battery is double sided taped down.

[boreal creek]

looks good man!

[clear kestrel]

Thanks. What are you guys using for glands to bring in the solar cable?

[spare garden]

big chungus drill bit and plenty of epoxy

[fickle wedge]

I wonder if your batt has a built-in protection board

[spare garden]

it does.

for everything else there's #solar-power message

[clear kestrel]

PGR is going up.

[boreal creek]

https://tenor.com/view/woot-yes-celebrate-yas-excited-gif-5541344

[clear kestrel]

In about 5min I’ll be on 146.490 simplex.

My node count went up when I came back online

[fickle wedge]

You guys were talking to 0HLT in Tracy?

I only got your side of the conversations

[boreal creek]

I heard them. Don’t know that they heard me.

[clear kestrel]

Last night I got a message from 04D6 in Tracy.

That’s my furthest contact so far. 63 miles. I’m pretty sure anyway. I paired to a new device with my phone, so I lost all my previous messages and node list.

[boreal creek]

Did you have 2 way comms? Or just 1?

[clear kestrel]

I got his message. I replied, but I never heard back. Not sure if he got my message.

Does 04D6 overlap OHLT on the map? Maybe it’s the same person’s node.

I don’t see OHLT on my map anymore.

[boreal creek]

I thought I replied but I guess I didn’t. I only heard 0HLT, not 04D6. I replied to 0HLT but don’t know that they got my reply.

I’m up in EDH at a kid appointment right now. Finally able to traceroute the nodes up here. 🤣

[clear kestrel]

Are you running the 17cm Gizont right now?

[boreal creek]

I actually put the “CDEByte” antennas on because they have the joint and can bend 90 degrees

[clear kestrel]

For running it on the dash?

[boreal creek]

Trying to, but it’s sliding all over the place

I’m at McD’s with him now so it’s sitting on the table

https://tenor.com/view/black-nerd-black-nerd-gif-26919340

Apparently I’m a giant nerd, bringing a radio around with me everywhere.

[fickle wedge]

I only see 0HLT now in Tracy, everything else disappeared

If you're a giant nerd, then I think all of us are

[spare garden]

if I can't see you, you're not big enough

[bitter iron]

AB0OO here - I have an outdoor, RF-advantaged node at 38.66167, -121.0837, just up the hill from c230/EDHR in El Dorado Hills.

[clear kestrel]

Hey AB0oo. You’re one the first nodes that popped up on my map when I got my first node. I’ve been experimenting with different locations for my elevated node. Looks like where I have it now is not a good spot. I got some new antennas today, so I’m going to go up there and play around. Maybe I’ll reach you 🤷‍♂️

[boreal creek]

Hey ab0oo. I was just up in your area earlier.

[bitter iron]

@boreal creek I saw you just down the hill from me.

@clear kestrel Are you out near Jackson?

[clear kestrel]

Yes

[boreal creek]

I had a kid appointment up off White Rock and Latrobe. Been seeing the nodes up there for a while, but was never able to make contact.

[bitter iron]

My 'elevated' node is a T-Beam with a 1262, directly into a 5db antenna.
This is rougly my footprint:
https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=S9VX134L

[boreal creek]

Wow, that's a lot of area

I guess that explains why I can hear you, but I guess I just can't get enough signal back up there.... yet.

[bitter iron]

906MHz is noisy. Evey cordless phone, baby monitor, wireless weather station, and smart meter is chirping away in there. It's just a matter of getting a word in edgewise and being heard over the din.

[clear kestrel]

That’s pretty useful info

You also have some monsters broadcasting towers near your house

On both sides of 50

[bitter iron]

Yeah, but I'm not sure what they have up there in 900 ISM. Of course, they might have stuff at 450 that harmonically destroys ISM for us.

[clear kestrel]

Ok, I’m putting my shoes on and loading up the dog and antennas. If I see ya I see ya. I’ll also be monitoring 146.490MHz.

FYI, I upgraded all my nodes to the latest alpha. 2.3.2

Running smooth since yesterday.

[bitter iron]

Excellent. I'm pulling git 'master' every morning and flashing the node on my desk. The "advantaged" node , not so much. It's on 2.3.1.724fa38a, which is at least a week old. It's a pain to get to for updates.

[spare garden]

2.3.1 has been "recalled"

hopefully you have neighborinfo off on that node

[bitter iron]

um... I do now. 🙂

is there a PR/issue open on it?

[spare garden]

there were a few. also all over discord about corrupted messages

[bitter iron]

I'm just now getting comfortable with discord. So. Much. Information.

[spare garden]

https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/issues/3452

[boreal creek]

Slack > Discord

[spare garden]

i irc irl

j/k. haven't touched irc for like 10 years

[bitter iron]

IRC, but only from a CLI. "apt-get install irc" FTW.
Anyway, I'll flash that node soon-ish

[boreal creek]

apt > *

this is my daily driver.

[spare garden]

when meshtastic 3.0 comes in i'm gonna gather all my 17 nodes

actually i might have more by then

i have potato

[bitter iron]

I just rebooted my daily driver to get to kernel 6.6.15. I run sid as my daily driver.

[boreal creek]

yikes!

sid.

I've never used Arch

[bitter iron]

I'm only running Sid because I want Plama/Wayland to run on my expensive NVidia graphics card. Which it doesn't.

[spare garden]

much big storage. why so big

i barely know what to do with my 14TB

so i run btrfs in the hopes that one day it will free me from my data

[bitter iron]

also, out of curiosity, what are you guys running to get the pretty summary of your systems with the ascii art?

[boreal creek]

neofetch

[boreal creek]

VM’s… for labbing things up.

[fickle wedge]

hi @bitter iron

[spare garden]

uwufetch

[fickle wedge]

I've seen you for some time @bitter iron but never could get a traceroute.

[bitter iron]

I've never seen about half the "functionality" meshtastic claims to have actually work. Traceroute among that.

[spare garden]

traceroute is for your nearest neighbors

[bitter iron]

I really can't understand why they don't tack routing indicators into the cleartext portion of the message as they pass it. And while we're at it, give me the ability to designate a first hop...

[spare garden]

that can be done if you want to forego encryption

first hop designation [equivalent] coming in meshtastic 3.0

[bitter iron]

It can be done even if you keep encryption. Or I REALLY don't understand the protocol

is this still a valid protocol diagram?

[spare garden]

yes

not up-to-date, but still valid

[bitter iron]

then you take those 4 padding bits and you use them to indicate nuber of hosts routed through (there can only be three) and you put theiir 4 byte node address before you start the payload. My understanding is that ONLY the payload component is encrypted. The Meshtastic Header is not.

so, you've consumed at most an extra 12 bytes, and you can suddenly build a truly useful network map.

[spare garden]

12 bytes... wot

how did 4 bits turn into 12 bytes

[bitter iron]

you use those 4 bits as a semaphore to indicate the size of the variable field of nodes that have handled this message, that's inserted (in this diagram) between the Meshtastic Header and the Meshtastic Payload.

It's not backward compatible... we're already to that point, aren't we?

[spare garden]

here, have a #1217252717844500480

but what you propose is actually not very feasible and kinda limiting

... not that i know what i'm talking about. i computer illiterate

[bitter iron]

I'm trading payload size for metadata.

[boreal creek]

I'd like to get deeper into how it all works also, but you know, without going through 10'ss of thousands of lines of code. haha

(server/networks/security guy here)

[bitter iron]

I've spent 17 years as a low-bandwidth radio protocol engineer, mostly at 900 MHz, with packets up to about 48 bytes. I have a bit of knowledge here.

[spare garden]

i terrorized my sister with a radio jammer when i was tiny. i stupid

[bitter iron]

I hold it as canon that every bit in an on-air message is sacred in much the same way Monty Python believes every sperm is sacred.

and meshtastic spends bits like a drunken sailor on shore leave in Bankok.

[spare garden]

no padding4u. all the way up to the bleeding edge xD

[bitter iron]

'zactly. All we had was an MSP430 for encoding AND modulating, and we LIKED IT.

@spare garden is there a more up-to-date protocol diagram that I can find? I'm writing a meshtastic stack in Python for RasPi with an Adafruit LoRa Bonnet, and it would make my life easier

[boreal creek]

That sounds like a cool project

[spare garden]

i have no clue about any of this stuff. i just like collecting meshtastic nodes

https://hastebin.skyra.pw/usozohezub.bash i never even completed writing this little doodad

[bitter iron]

Here's a traceroute from me to EDHR, and the response:
-52
RxDone
Payload (20 bytes):
c4 b4 6d fa 18 5b 5f 1c c3 b1 2b 14 6b 08 00 00 55 07 a1 8a
-105
RxDone
Payload (23 bytes):
18 5b 5f 1c c4 b4 6d fa 1f db 85 04 0c 08 00 00 0b 99 c9 b7 4e d9 6c

[boreal creek]

Don’t believe him, @bitter iron . He knows more than he lets on. 🤣

[clear kestrel]

I think this has been implemented in 2.3.2

[bitter iron]

That's about all I've got. I can use python to talk SPI to the radio, get RSSI and raw bytes

[spare garden]

3.0

[clear kestrel]

But all parties have to be running it.

[spare garden]

https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/pull/2856

[clear kestrel]

Hookers need love too

[spare garden]

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

[clear kestrel]

I thought I was gonna be talking to space with this thing

[spare garden]

wrong orientation

I fixed mine.

... and then broke it before I got to use it

[clear kestrel]

Oh no. How?

Some lady just asked me what I was holding

[spare garden]

as I was screwing the whole thing into the housing for the last time, it snapped right at the connector

[spare garden]

mesh packet divining rod

[boreal creek]

Colinear… nice

[fickle wedge]

Those are some big lora antennas

[spare garden]

my pole bigger than yours

[clear kestrel]

Could holding the antenna at the base be detuning the antenna?

What’s the DBI rating on that thing?

[fickle wedge]

I picked up this antenna at the Loomis Hamfest a couple weekends ago

for $10

6dB gain, almost 2 ft long

[spare garden]

it shouldn't affect much for a properly tuned antenna

[clear kestrel]

That’s a score if it works.

How does one tell if they’ve damaged their radio by transmitting without the antenna attached?

[spare garden]

by transmitting with an antenna attached

throw a dummy load on it. compare tx signal strength with a working node.

[clear kestrel]

Good idea. Thanks.

[spare garden]

me like dummy loads

[boreal creek]

That’s not a nice name to call me

[bitter iron]

Yes.

seeing messages on our local network with a hop limit of 4....

[clear kestrel]

Seeing messages from me?

[clear kestrel]

Are you referring to trace routes?

[bitter iron]

Yes, direct I think. I just walked away for dinner

No, it looks like Pete's EDHR is configured for a hop count of 4

[clear kestrel]

I don’t I think we have a dense enough network, or enough traffic to have such a low hop count. Maybe I’m just rude, but I’m using 7 hops until it becomes an issue. It takes 2 hops just to get out of my house and over the hill between me and the valley.

Is my logic flawed?

It takes me 5 hops sometimes to reach Elk Grove.

As of right now, the odds of EDHR reaching me at my house on 4 hops is slim to none. That explains why I’ve only heard him when I’m at the repeater site.

[bitter iron]

I'm not sure what's right, just yet. Falling back to APRS, we want one or two WIDEs, and maybe a couple of RELAYs. in APRS, if you hop more than twice, you're a dick to the network. Not sure what's right for LoRa, but the on-air time is longer at LongSlow than a standard APRS packet at 1200baud on 2 meters.

it looks like just "normal" traffic like node and position reports have on air times of 500-700ms. It looks like TX delay for retrans is 700-1200 ms. If you're hopping 5 times, your one packet is using 4 seconds of network air time, at least. I'm still trying to characterize the network, based on the real traffic I'm seeing.

[boreal creek]

Sounds like another ham. There are lots of us here.

It makes sense, but it didn’t occur to me when I first jumped in.

I kinda expected preppers

[clear kestrel]

I think all YouTube channels promoting it are hams.

[bitter iron]

I'll keep playing with Meshtastic, but for my one Real World application, I'm reflashing everything to APRS. I use the LoRa radios to track 8 or 10 expensive e-bikes at Burning Man, and last year it worked like a champ

[boreal creek]

I’ve never tried APRS.

I would like to compare the default LongFast to either LongSlow or some custom settings too,

[bitter iron]

So I did some experimenting on the playa last year with settings and distance, etc. I was reliably getting over a mile with the little 2.5" stub antennas with SF8/125kHz/CR4:5

on air time was roughly 325 ms per packet

I'm sorry, 125 ms per packet.

[boreal creek]

All the pictures I’ve seen, that’s a wide open flat terrain.

[boreal creek]

Oops, did I have a brain fart moment? 🤣

I didn’t!

[clear kestrel]

Is 04D6 showing up as 0HD6 on your node?

What the heck

That’s a first

[fickle wedge]

I see him as 0HLT like jfred

It's a custom short name

Sometimes nodes won't pick up their edited names for a while

So I imagine the actual node suffix is 04D6

But the long custom name is 04D6 Hidden Lakes Tracy which he shortened to 0HLT

[clear kestrel]

It just changed in mine. Guess you were right @fickle wedge

If I sent you a direct message invite to discord, it’s because your node was showing up with its default name.

[clear kestrel]

Hi @bitter iron. Since you're a subject matter expert in this technology, what advice to you have for the rest of this group, so that we may strengthen our mesh? Any antenna suggestions or best practices?

[bitter iron]

A couple of things. Must importantly, update your firmware early and often. There are new changes that allow for source defined routing, and last hop node ID that are useful in determining the state of the network

Don't put anything on the net that you think is "secure". I found a pretty big mis-use of the AES-CTR nonce today in the firmware

I'm not convinced they initialize the IV correctly for every message

[boreal creek]

oh really? Now THAT would be interesting.

Was this finding done while writing your client? Or did you audit any of the source code?

I did find this page just the other day while reading up on this some... in case you haven't seen it. https://meshtastic.org/docs/overview/encryption/

"The IV for each block is constructed by concatenating the NONCE as the upper 96 bits of the IV and the COUNTER as the bottom 32 bits. Since our packets are small counter portion will really never be higher than 32 (five bits)."

[bitter iron]

I tried to implement AES CTR the same way they do in the code, and the Python library puked on it. They're using a 128 bit nonce and 64 of those bits are always zero. The spec for AES CTR calls for a 64-bit nonce at max

They up cast the 32 bit node ID and the 32 bit packet ID to two uint64_t vars

[boreal creek]

I'm trying to think and read about what you stated, but my kids keep interrupting.

lol

[bitter iron]

Damn crotch fruit. I got married 23 months ago. 7 weeks after the wedding, my new stepdaughter showed up with an infant. Surprise! She's been living with us every since. I feel you

[clear kestrel]

“Crotch fruit” 🤣

That’s way classier than fuck trophies 🤪

[boreal creek]

I wonder if they implemented their own, or if they are using a common library for AES.

[boreal creek]

Wouldn't whether this is an issue or not depend on how those values are being used in the actual encryption functions?

[bitter iron]

They use mbedTLS, which I thought was pretty good, but it's accepting invalid parameters.

https://reference.opcfoundation.org/Core/Part14/v104/docs/7.2.2.2.3.2#:~:text=For AES-CTR mode the,Nonce shall be 8 Bytes.&text=The counter for each encrypted,the AES-CTR RFC).

The nonce for AES CTR is at max 112 bits, and supposed to be 64. The library is dropping the last 8 bits in an effort to be compliant, but that means that 8 messages are all sent with the same encryption

[boreal creek]

8 messages? or 8 bits of counter worth of messages? (2^8 = 256?)

and I guess a "message" could contain multiuple blocks (the page I linked above says it "will really never be higher than 32 (five bits)").

[bitter iron]

I'm not in front of my PC, but when I am I'll link to the relevant code

[boreal creek]

No worries. I just downloaded it and I'm poking through. I'm no dev though, so we'll see.

There's a lot I don't know, but I'm a little concerned that the IV seems to be non-random..... the IV is the nonce and the counter. The nonce is the node number concatenated with the packet number. So the IV is Node Number & packet number & counter...

And only the payload is encrypted, so the Node number and packet number can be derived from the transport layer.

I guess the nonce for a given channel is stored in flash, so unless you can observe every message since creation you don't know where the counter is at.

[boreal creek]

Thinking about it some more, I guess the real security isn't in the IV though, but in the algorithm and the key.

[bitter iron]

Exactly

The fact that the key is hard coded into the firmware doesn't help

[boreal creek]

? Don’t we specify the key on any new channel we create?

[bitter iron]

There is a default key that is hardcoded into the firmware. When you generate a new channel, a new key is generated that is secret to that channel.

[spare garden]

what is AQ==

[boreal creek]

you're talking about the default key for the LongFast channel?

[bitter iron]

that's a placeholder to indicate that the hardcoded key is to be used.

On of the things I'd like to try is moving to a different channel for our little network and see if we get better results using something like LongSlow

just briefly.

[boreal creek]

I've wanted to do a test like that too.

I'm on the south end of RC. I can see you in my node list, but never was able to make a traceroute. Wonder if an extra 3db of signal would help

I was also interesting in trying to test a custom config with all the settings to be best possible case adverse conditions.

But then I was reading an article that was talking about the oscillator stability possibly not being good enough on most devices for the most narrow bandwidths?

I would be interested in trying BW=62kHz, SF=12, CR=8 also to see what happens.

Maybe even a non-default frequency override to try to get away from the rest of the noise?

[bitter iron]

the REALLY slow stuff requires TCXOs on the board

but yeah, 62kbs is ok

[boreal creek]

The Meshtastic page says 31khz should be fine and slower is an issue, but someone laid out some math and indicated that 62 or maybe even 125 was the slowest one should go without a TCXO (I don’t recall which)

[bitter iron]

https://www.semtech.com/design-support/lora-calculator

I've got my python receiver up and running now, and I'm getting a fair number of messages. Next step is to dump it into a DB for analysis.

I think the modulation stuff plays a role, but the bottom line is that 900MHz REQUIRES line of sight.

step 1) buy one of these: https://www.adafruit.com/product/4074

I would love to see them run a second gen run with an SX1262. I might wind up building something small and stupid of my own with a 1262 chip that sits on a piHat.

[boreal creek]

Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit!

[boreal creek]

I ran a LOS plot to Pete and seemed to be close but maybe possible. I think you are close to him, but not sure if you're far enough to change the plot.

[bitter iron]

ahh, add in the raspi and python code, and THEN profit.

I'm right on top of him. 970 meters

[boreal creek]

I'm also not opposed to using a beam antenna for a little extra umph.

[spare garden]

moxon

[bitter iron]

once I get the python code cleaned up, I'll have a better idea of what I can actually see, and what's out there.

here's my last from JB_fsb8:

JB_f2b8
RAK4631 CF:6D:31:8E:F2:B8 12 hours ago -16db/0%/-30raw

JF Router
LILYGO_TBEAM_S3_CORE 34:B7:DA:56:FD:BC 15 hours ago -18.75db/0%/-43.75raw

JB Actual
HELTEC_V3 34:B7:DA:63:99:90 1 day ago 8.75db/93.75%/93.75raw

[bitter iron]

how much of that is MQTT?

[spare garden]

0%

[bitter iron]

I made the mistake of gating MQTT->RF in the beginning...

where are you located, @spare garden ? What's your node id?

[spare garden]

I'm in the land of oak

I still haven't implemented neighborinfo in my dingy script

[boreal creek]

I guess my plot to Pete was a little rougher than I remembered.

[spare garden]

which node?

(that's like 50% of my nodes powered on)

[fickle wedge]

I guess I can't talk to any of you unless PGR is up

[clear kestrel]

I think water might have gotten in the antenna. I haven’t seen any new node info since 2151 last night.

[bitter iron]

Man, that's SO close...

Almost makes me wish I'd spent the extra million bucks for the hosue just up the street. It's got another 50 feet of elevation, and basically 270 degrees of LOS to the horizon

[clear kestrel]

@boreal creek you have a landfill to your east that is a hill.

[spare garden]

be a good neighbor. make a friend

[fickle wedge]

shoulda spent it

[spare garden]

on a tower.

[fickle wedge]

@clear kestrel I got telemetry from your PGR node as of 10am

[clear kestrel]

I’ve looking at locations around Latrobe Rd to try to bridge everyone.

[bitter iron]

I've got a pair of 80' redwoods in my backyard that have the same RF view as that house. 10 years ago, I'd be up that thing like a damned spidermonkey to put a node at the top. Today.... dude, I'm too old for that shit

[fickle wedge]

So it's it's not dead. Maybe only mostly dead, but not all the way dead

I also heard from AB0OO_B as of 9:16am, but have not been able to reach it

[spare garden]

that node name looks familiar

[clear kestrel]

I got telemetry from PGR also, it’s just not hearing anyone else.

[boreal creek]

I haven't yet considered putting up a stealth, camouflaged node like you. I don't have enough (cheap) spare hardware yet. Maybe with a $20 Heltec.

[bitter iron]

The Heltec's are perfect if you've got WiFi handy. I've got a stack of V1s that bought years ago.

[boreal creek]

What is wifi used for? (noob question, I guess?)

[clear kestrel]

I wasn’t suggesting you put one up there. Sorry, I should have been more clear. I’ve been looking for a hill between us all that we all have line of sight to. That landfill has been a head ache for including you.

[boreal creek]

management?

[spare garden]

I believe V1 is derprecated

[bitter iron]

@spare garden I think MC Hamster is down somewhere near you.

[spare garden]

across the bay from me

[bitter iron]

"deprecated" != "doesn't still work."

[boreal creek]

oh, haha. Gotcha. Soon I'll have 20+ ft elevation and an 8 dbi antenna.

[bitter iron]

He's one of the guys that tried a bunch of meshtastic on the playa at burning man.

[spare garden]

I still have a V1 running somewhere...

[boreal creek]

so that might help

[spare garden]

along with shid fard coom guy @sinful flint

[sinful flint]

[open rivet]

Hello from Tracy on discord. FYI my test node you know as 0HLT will be moving in the coming weeks to the hills above Tracy at 1900ft msl. It should have some amazing coverage from that site.

[boreal creek]

Welcome @open rivet !

[mighty finch]

Hello from downtown sac!

[boreal creek]

Hello from Rancho Cordova.

[mighty finch]

I'm also in auburn, a bit further north

Haven't seen anyone up there, but get a couple nodes in the city.

[clear kestrel]

Hey OHLT! Glad to finally meet you. Looking forward to your new node location. Maybe that will bridge the gap between us.

[fickle wedge]

hi @open rivet

I have yet to reach 0HLT

[boreal creek]

I'm spamming the link to here everywhere, and It's putting the butts in the seats. 🤪

[fickle wedge]

I am EGS1 and all the AD6DM's

[clear kestrel]

Welcome to you too @mighty finch. I figured Sacramento would be dense with nodes. There is a Sacramento Meshtastic group started by Eric Tofsrud on Facebook. https://facebook.com/groups/smrn.ca/

[boreal creek]

I wish the Facebook group wasn't completely public, especially if we start talking specific locations.

[fickle wedge]

I stopped using FB 11 years ago. F Zuck

[mighty finch]

Haha I know Eric, small world.

Guy rides an euc too if I'm not mistaken

[clear kestrel]

I don’t use it either, except for a couple meshtastic groups and solar groups.

[boreal creek]

I'm on it for the memes. haha

[mighty finch]

Fb good

Don't fight the future. Embrace our ai overlords

[boreal creek]

19 days after I was able to order, I FINALLY got notified that my T-Echos have shipped (from China).

I guess I should probably just feel happy to have actually been able to place an order.

[mighty finch]

aliexpress

?

wouldnt mind getting my hands on one of those lil guys myself

[boreal creek]

From Lilygo’s AliExpress page. Not from one of the suspicious other Ali sellers.

I have 2 coming. Brown, so not my preferred color, and includes the extra sensor.

And my RAK kits shipped too.

[mighty finch]

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/1101195566/pages/all-items.html?productGroupId=40000001200866&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.pcShopHead_11037743.1_2_1&storeId=1101195566&sortType=bestmatch_sort&shop_sortType=bestmatch_sort

looks sold out 😦

wah wah

[boreal creek]

Oh yeah, they’ve been that wait for a while. They came in stock, I ordered 2, and then they were out.

[mighty finch]

gwah

man it cant be that hard to make one from parts on a breadboard eh

[fickle wedge]

Tried the hamfest 915 MHz antenna with the NanoVNA

doesn't look like there's even a connection 😦

[bitter iron]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/730536684339042/posts/1511550466237656/

[fickle wedge]

SWR is 1:27398273849

😂

I don't have a SMA to N connector to try without the supplied coax cable

[bitter iron]

That guy's doing just that. And really, from there, it's just a hop and a skip away to designing your own board. I've designed ESP8266 and ESP32 boards before. It's all pretty straightfoward. The trickiest part of a DIY board is getting the RF off the board efficiently, and not self-interfering. IF you use a module like that RA-02 with the uFL connection right on the module, that part is basically taken care of.

[fickle wedge]

Also, verified that the SWR is slightly increased when you bend those right-angle antennas

Tested the coax with a multimeter, it's got connectivity

so the antenna must be a dud 😦

[bitter iron]

is there any writing on the coax?

nothing like trying to feed a 50 ohm antenna on 75 ohm TV coax...

[boreal creek]

That wouldn't cause the SWR he's seeing though, right?

[fickle wedge]

"KMR-240 Low Loss coax cable 0067m"

sounds like a LMR-240 knockoff

[boreal creek]

Poor man's Times Microwave. I was just looking at the specs on KMR-240 and KMR-400 the other day. Looked decent for the price difference.

[bitter iron]

pretty much

[boreal creek]

The YouTube review I saw said, for the cost savings, it was a good value. So I'd probably try it.

[fickle wedge]

First time using my NanoVNA for something since my Rigexpert only goes to 600

[bitter iron]

Running 150 watts 200 feet up a tower, LMR. 5 feet for your 500 mW chinese radio? KMR is just fine

[boreal creek]

Rigexpert.... and all I have is this MFJ.

Well, plus a NanoVNA somewhere.

[fickle wedge]

@boreal creek got your response and signal report to JB, but never saw anything from JB

I just posted "Test 4 from DM7"

[bitter iron]

I got my old man a rigexpert for Christmas. I also checked the will to make sure its coming back to me. Morbid, but those things are NICE.

[boreal creek]

I didn't see your test. Though I am connected to jf1, which means I have to get the message from jf Router.

[clear kestrel]

I replied “received test five”

[bitter iron]

anyone here have !da546f3c ?

[clear kestrel]

Although my messages were not being routed through PGR. Its green light was flashing. It was sending out node info, but it was not receiving or transiting messages. I power cycled it and it’s working now. Frustrating. It’s not easy retrieving that thing. It was dry as a bone on the inside. Going to swap it out with a new node. Do you think maybe the repeater tower near it could be overwhelming its radio?

[mighty finch]

i hve personal access to jlpcb and have thought about just making clones, there must be some out of stock part though

[bitter iron]

Do you have an RTL-SDR? If so, fire it up and look at the noise floor at 907MHz

[mighty finch]

man my battery display is wildly off usually.

[clear kestrel]

I just ordered one. Comes tomorrow. $9 on Amazon.

[spare garden]

yoink the cover off that antenna

[clear kestrel]

Can you disassemble it without destroying it?

[spare garden]

yes

bend it at the seam like you're trying to snap it, until a gap appears. stick fingernail or other object in gap, bend other direction while pulling

remember to pull

keep your two hands close together so you can brace with your thumbs

[clear kestrel]

I do, I’ll check it out.

[boreal creek]

Running a LOS plot based on the location to the location your nodes are giving out, we may have good LOS between you and I once I get the node I'm building mounted on the eaves of the house. (Right now it's just in the east-facing window.)

If I can somehow hit you reliably, that may help connect you and Pete in with myself and JB out in Amador County.

[bitter iron]

It's that to me? That would be ideal

[boreal creek]

That’s to where your nodes are showing up at

[bitter iron]

There may be some fresnel zone inclusion, but probably not. I'm at about 30' AGL with that antenna.

[boreal creek]

Anyone had an issue that once you set a device to GPS disabled with fixed position that you can’t set it back to us the GPS without re-setting up the device?

[high oyster]

The 903 yagi is very easy to build

[boreal creek]

Would look like a dwarf next to my 2m tape measure yagi. But doesn’t look hard at all

[boreal creek]

Btw, welcome! I don’t think I’ve met you yet.

[mighty finch]

found one this morning in auburn!

[clear kestrel]

Were you able to exchange messages?

[clear kestrel]

I have not on my rak devices.

[boreal creek]

Thanks for that info. I've ran into this issue a couple times now. Not sure if it's a bug or what. Sure feels like a bug.

[fickle wedge]

I will be updating my EGS1 router and T-echo to 2.3.2 soon

I guess it landed in beta stable

[clear kestrel]

Yup. Just saw that. I’m updating all mine to the alpha.

@jfred your SWR was -14 yesterday.

[bitter iron]

git pull
pio run
pio run -t upload
repeat daily.

[clear kestrel]

US CA Sac Valley & Foot Hills

[mighty finch]

Nah nobody has ever responded to my measages on meahtastic.

[boreal creek]

Just make sure you leave them a message with a link to this discord before you leave the area. 😄

[clear kestrel]

I like what @spare garden says. “Plant a node, grow a mesh.”

[fickle wedge]

nodes back up on 2.3.2

I like that my last known location for DM7 is HRO Sacramento 😂

[mighty finch]

Ironically I just got a message from halfway across the grid.

[clear kestrel]

What’s the grid?

[mighty finch]

Sacramento downtown

[clear kestrel]

Gotcha. The name makes sense.

[mighty finch]

Haha, that is another reference. To pevs.

[clear kestrel]

Were you able to exchange messages with them? Or just one message made it through?

[mighty finch]

Well they posted location, I responded with mine.

No further contact

Hard to tell. They didn't pop on map

[clear kestrel]

I’ve never sent or received location before. Everyone I’ve been in contact with shares their location.

The first message I received, my girlfriend said I looked like someone who was lost at sea, who just made contact with someone, after floating for months.

I wasn’t able to reach back to them. I think they said something like “Good Morning Meshtastic”

Then i went back to talking to Wilson. 😉

[mighty finch]

Ahh I sent cross streets, not a direct location

[fickle wedge]

Upgrading firmware on a T-Beam is a PITA

[clear kestrel]

If you go into channel settings, you can obscure your location.

I guess that only matters if you kept the public channel as your primary channel.

[clear kestrel]

I don’t have one, how so?

[fickle wedge]

There's no drag & drop update like a T-Echo. Need to use either web serial with Win 11 on MS Edge, or CLI. More often than not, T-Beam doesn't want to connect and accept the firmware, gotta keep resetting it, connecting and disconnecting the USB cable while holding the reset button down before it actually accepts the serial connection.

Took me at least 7 attempts before the firmware started actually writing.

[spare garden]

I call that the firmware update dance. pretty much needed on windows when flashing many different devices

on Linux it just works 👀

[fickle wedge]

I use UTM with my fake Win11 install on macOS 🙂

T-Echo is just drag & drop after hitting reset 2x

RAK is so easy, just OTA update from your phone

[spare garden]

why can't t-echo do ota?

[fickle wedge]

not supported yet

[spare garden]

👀

@fickle wedge you know you want to try it ...

[clear kestrel]

Can you do this from the meshtastic app?

[mighty finch]

Not too worried about location, one is at a business inside and another is on me. Both get location from phone so accuracy is rarely spot on

[spare garden]

I recall a t-beam could be updated ota from the Meshtastic app at one point in time, long ago...

[fickle wedge]

You use another app that the Meshtastic app recommends called "nRF Device Firmware Update" (iOS)

Just download the release zip to your phone, explode it, find the RAK4631 ota zip within there, and select it for upload in the DFU app

[clear kestrel]

That could be helpful. Save me from a climb. Thanks.

[fickle wedge]

The battery takes a hit when you update but it recovers from solar charging

[spare garden]

and for android only a certain version of the nrf connect app will work

[clear kestrel]

Does the iOS app have “DFU” on a teal colored icon, with 2 arrows going counter clockwise?

[fickle wedge]

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/nrf-device-firmware-update/id1624454660

[clear kestrel]

Do I have downloaded a special version of the firmware. I tried the normal firmware file and it won’t let me select it.

[fickle wedge]

you download the full release zip from github

then you extract that

then find the rak4631 OTA version

(not the e-ink one)

that will be a zip file too

OTA uses zip files

[spare garden]

working with files on phone much difficult

[clear kestrel]

Thanks guys

Blue light flashes. After DFU initiallized the progress bar pops up for a split second, then it crashes.

Only way to get it out of DFU mode is to drag and drop firmware on computer after that. This would be bad out in the field.

Let me try another node, maybe this one didn't like my reverse polarity trick I played on it 🤫

[spare garden]

that is why I have a "test rak" in the house

OH. sometimes it changes bt name and you have to reconnect

[clear kestrel]

Worked fine on my other node

I'm gonna have to buy a new 19007. Mine got "backwards power"

[boreal creek]

Here I am… no rack except my gf’s.

[clear kestrel]

You got stubby antennas on those things?

[boreal creek]

She borrows the 10 dbi monster when needed

[clear kestrel]

Well crap. I was hoping I got lucky with my "backwards power" incident. I didn't' get magic smoke and everything else seemed to be working fine after. One guy mentioned that his node that got reverse polarity treatment, started drawing more power than his nodes that didn't get zapped. I just dont' trust this thing anymore. Who knows what else is messed up. Do you think I should replace the radio (4630) or just the 19007?

[spare garden]

if it still charges, replace 4630

[clear kestrel]

It still charges

[spare garden]

if baseboard takes any current when module is off the board, replace it

how did you apply reverse voltage?

if it's a lipo battery, in some cases the battery protection circuit will trip and save yer rak

[clear kestrel]

Bought two new batteries and even though I knew when I ordered them that I'd have to swap the pins, I got distracted/excited and just plugged them in.

[spare garden]

it's probably fine

[clear kestrel]

Why do you suppose it's not taking a OTA firmware update, and my other is?

[spare garden]

luck, or the lack thereof

[fickle wedge]

How solid is your bt connection?

[spare garden]

not solid enough to see nor touch

[clear kestrel]

Right next to my phone

3 bars/green in the DFU app

[fickle wedge]

odd

[clear kestrel]

3 successful OTA updates. 1 failed twice.

Gonna factory restore it and try again

[boreal creek]

I can take it off your hands and dispose of it properly

[clear kestrel]

Erased the flash. Reinstalled the flash. Tried flashing OTA. Failed

Don't drink electricity backwards and drive.

[spare garden]

donate it to a willing dev?

(not me because I computer illiterate)

[clear kestrel]

@fickle wedge Have you had a chance to open up your hamfest antenna?

[fickle wedge]

nope

not yet

I'm waiting to test the antenna with a shorter jumper and/or adapter first

The cable has continuity but it doesn't work with the AOA Alfa antenna either

so I think it's just the NanoVNA needs a better connection

[clear kestrel]

Hopefully that solves it.

[fickle wedge]

If that antenna fails then the hamfest was a bust. The keyboard I got from there for $5 ended up shorting out

[clear kestrel]

If you go back and see a guy named JB, don't buy his used RAK meshtastic starter kit 😉

[spare garden]

the cables that come with those antennas are usually bullshit

i never even used nor tested the cable that came with mine. just kept it in case i need to tie something up

[clear kestrel]

If the only thing it doesn't do is OTA updates, I can make it work.

[fickle wedge]

The one thing RAKs are good for

[spare garden]

https://meshtastic.org/docs/getting-started/flashing-firmware/nrf52/convert-rak4631r/ maybe try this for shits and giggles?

[clear kestrel]

I like to shit and giggle. brb

[clear kestrel]

Step 4 and 5. Do I put the devcie in DFU and drag and drop the bootloader zip prior to running adafruit-nrfutil --verbose dfu serial --package ./WisCore_RAK4631_Board_Bootloader.zip -p /dev/ttyACM0 -b 115200 --singlebank --touch 1200?

[spare garden]

no

[clear kestrel]

Where do I put the bootloader file?

[spare garden]

put it where you will be running adafruit-nrfutil

[clear kestrel]

Very very new to CLI. I have to put the path way in that command?

[spare garden]

only if bootloader zip is not in the same place where you're running adafruit-nrfutil

usually it's just copy and paste

also, you don't need to put it into dfu mode. just plug and pray

[clear kestrel]

PS C:\Users\JB> adafruit-nrfutil --verbose dfu serial --package ./WisCore_RAK4631_Board_Bootloader.zip -p /dev/ttyACM0 -b 115200 --singlebank --touch 1200

Usage: adafruit-nrfutil dfu serial [OPTIONS] Try 'adafruit-nrfutil dfu serial --help' for help. Error: Invalid value for '-pkg' / '--package': File './WisCore_RAK4631_Board_Bootloader.zip' does not exist.

[spare garden]

file is not in the correct place

oh wait

try removing the "./"

[clear kestrel]

Where is adafruit stored? The bootlader file is still in my downloads folder.

[spare garden]

it doesn't matter where the adafruit binary is

[clear kestrel]

ok

[spare garden]

cd to your downloads folder

[clear kestrel]

tried without ./

same result

Would that look like..... adafruit-nrfutil --verbose dfu serial --package ./C:/Users/JB/Downloads/WisCore_RAK4631_Board_Bootloader.zip -p /dev/ttyACM0 -b 115200 --singlebank --touch 1200 .

[spare garden]

hold on looking up how to do this on windohs

[spare garden]

do you know how to get to device manager?

[clear kestrel]

there

[spare garden]

you need to figure out the com port of the rak

put rak in dfu mode to more easily find it

adafruit-nrfutil --verbose dfu serial --package C:\Users\JB\Downloads\WisCore_RAK4631_Board_Bootloader.zip -p COMxx -b 115200 --singlebank --touch 1200 replace COMxx with correct port

[clear kestrel]

ok

[fickle wedge]

yeah right

[clear kestrel]

Damn. You nailed it. Now lets see if it changes anything 🤪

[spare garden]

do you usually shit first, or giggle first?

or both at the same time

[clear kestrel]

Unfortunately, sometimes at the same time

WTF?! It worked!

You're a Wizard! @spare garden

[spare garden]

it was just for shits and giggles

[clear kestrel]

I don't understand. I thought meshtastic would not work on RAK4631-R (RUI3). You think it was shipped like that or that it had something to do with the reverse polarity?

[spare garden]

there have been cases of Raks being shipped preprogrammed to repeater mode with random bluetooth pins...

[clear kestrel]

I copied that command line incase I or anyone else needs it down the road and you're not available. Thank you

[spare garden]

i'm so helpful

[clear kestrel]

That didn't really happen, did it?

You got me

[fickle wedge]

lol

[bitter iron]

Been running my python receiver for most of the day, here are the packet counts:
to_hex | count
----------+-------
da565238 | 3
f244c230 | 95
da56fc88 | 2
1c5f5b18 | 69
da56fdbc | 8
1c5f5b6c | 92
5d30d1aa | 3
fa6db4c4 | 198

[spare garden]

count packetloss next via packet id

[bitter iron]

I have the data. Working on it.

[spare garden]

if a node has exactly 50% "packetloss" it means there's a client connected to it

[bitter iron]

it doesn't use a per-interface counter?

that's suboptimal.

[spare garden]

not sure if they changed that recently..

[clear kestrel]

Excuse my ignorance, is 198 packets a lot? Could that be causing congestion?

[bitter iron]

not my node.

I think it's EDHR

I'm failing at python in extracting node info data and persisting it.

yes, b4:c4 is EDHR

[clear kestrel]

It's not mine. I haven't been on the mesh at all today.

[spare garden]

you should use a custom mqtt topic 👀

on AB0OO_B

[bitter iron]

Ok. Got a suggestion for a topic name?

[spare garden]

ask @fickle wedge

[fickle wedge]

lol I set it to default because the custom topic wasn't showing up on the map

[bitter iron]

I'm just using default now.

so, those ~200 packets are over ~22300 seconds, so roughly one packet every 2 minutes

I'm not worried about congestion at that rate.

[fickle wedge]

I had proposed msh/US/sacvalley but it wouldn't work for meshmap.net

[spare garden]

trying that now

[bitter iron]

I got 8 packets from JF Router in Rancho Cordova.

[spare garden]

https://meshmap.net/#4201497416

(annnnd back to msh/US/bayarea i go)

[fickle wedge]

weird

I'll try setting it. @bitter iron you should to.

msh/US/sacvalley

so we don't get links to zimbabwe

[bitter iron]

@fickle wedge Can you do a LOS plot to 38.660915, -121.086433 from your node QTH?

[bitter iron]

done

You want to take that one layer deeper to msh/US/CA/sacvalley?

seems like it makes the tree cleaner.

[spare garden]

the tree is still small xD

plus you don't want people getting it confused with msh/CA

[fickle wedge]

24 miles, should be good no obstacles

[spare garden]

it worked

[fickle wedge]

ok msh/US/sacvalley shows up

maybe I was doing something wrong last time

[bitter iron]

There's an empty lot at that location with a million dollar view of the central valley. Considering putting a solar relay node on a pipe there for kicks.

put a little sticker on it that say "US Geological Survey Monitoring Point: Persons caught tampering with or removing are subject to prosecution under USC 69.420"

[boreal creek]

Hey, that's me. I'm famous!

[fickle wedge]

@boreal creek hitting all teh nodez

[bitter iron]

Is that a new antenna?

[boreal creek]

Can't ever get a traceroute to him though, and I don't think he's ever seen my messages. So it's really spotty, at best.

[fickle wedge]

I been sending test messages all day but no one seems to be getting them

[spare garden]

it be broken for me too

only works among my little mountain of devices

[boreal creek]

I haven't been connected to JFR. Let me check.

Will be easier when I have my T-Echo at my desk downstairs.

[fickle wedge]

Meshtastic sux.

ragequits

😜

[clear kestrel]

Sorry Dennis

Was having issues with PGR

[bitter iron]

I have two devices with Meshtastic, and ... about a dozen with APRS on them.

[clear kestrel]

I wish it was up while @bitter iron ran his test

[fickle wedge]

Not your fault. I get pings from EDH and JF nodes all the time, why ain't they hearing meeeeeeeeee

[spare garden]

maybe needs moar hops

[fickle wedge]

alreasdy set to 5 hops

this ain't no Triple IPA, we don't want a lotta hops

[bitter iron]

Does anyone have empircal comparisons between the SX1272 and SX1262?

SX1276, I guess.

[spare garden]

yes. compared to sx1262, sx127x sux

[bitter iron]

I can't believe there isn't an SX1262 hat for the RasPi. Everything I'm seeing is 1276.

[spare garden]

getting latest nodelist of my ancient heltec with 127x...

will replace that with a newer node in 2 months... and probably receive over 2x more nodes

#enclosures-discussion message it's this node, btw

[clear kestrel]

How much for that case?

[spare garden]

cost me $66
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BLQ24IW

[boreal creek]

needz moar upoxy

[clear kestrel]

WHAT?! That's amazing. Why do people spends thousands on printers, when you can get quality like that for a fraction of the price?

I'm buying 2 so I can dual 3d print.

[spare garden]

it saves on design time too

[boreal creek]

then you could weave the different colors together

[spare garden]

works great for mounts too

[fickle wedge]

fascinating

[boreal creek]

https://tenor.com/view/ew-yuck-gif-13390919

[fickle wedge]

reminds me of The Expanse

[boreal creek]

Just need my RAK. Probably gonna be a couple weeks still though.

[mighty finch]

ahh looks kinda pretty damn good for a human powered printer.

[clear kestrel]

I got a RAK18001 buzzer module from RAK. It's a good bang for buck. https://store.rakwireless.com/products/wisblock-buzzer-module-rak18001

[boreal creek]

Hoping to get a notification when you get a message?

[clear kestrel]

It does.

You can change the ringtone to whatever you want

[boreal creek]

Nice! Maybe I should have included a few extra modules to play with when I put my order in. Too late now.

[clear kestrel]

It also plays a tune when it completes booting up, which is handy.

[spare garden]

NGGYU:d=8,o=5,b=200:c,d,f,d,4a,p,4a,p,4g,2p,c,d,f,d,4g,p,4g,p,4f,2p,c,d,f,d,4f,p,4g,p,4e,p,4d,4c,4p,c,p,4g,4p,4f

[boreal creek]

https://tenor.com/view/right-yeah-right-yeah-oh-yeah-ohh-gif-14553729619893238098

[spare garden]

https://tenor.com/view/ar12-ar12gaming-rick-roll-nick-roll-gif-20494494

[boreal creek]

I'm trying to figure out what song it is.

[boreal creek]

Wish.com Rick Astley?

[clear kestrel]

don't tell me I'm putting in on my node

[spare garden]

I wrote it manually, not sure if timing and stuff are correct

[clear kestrel]

I might have spot for a super clandestine node. It can't broadcast it's location. What's the best Role for that. Repeater?

[clear kestrel]

Is that the same one you sent me when you helped me with my buzzer?

[spare garden]

different

[clear kestrel]

I've been rickrolled

[spare garden]

and now you can do it to others just by carrying your node around with you

[clear kestrel]

Wouldn't it be awesome if "Remote Config" didn't have all of the nodes in your node list?

[clear kestrel]

What if similarly to favoriting nodes, you could identify your own nodes, or better yet, the Remote Config list populated only the nodes that share the same admin channel as the node connected to the app.

[spare garden]

hopefully his death was not in vain and you guys learn to not charge derp'd 18650s

[boreal creek]

bruh

at least he sent a message from the afterlife to warn us.

[spare garden]

indeed

[clear kestrel]

Surely at some point in our progression, we’ve all done some battery charging jujitsu to trick a smart charger into charging an under voltage lipo. 🪫🧯

[spare garden]

that's to revive a battery protection circuit (which has protected the battery)

to revive a raw battery from the dead is a risky process

[clear kestrel]

Isn’t it also pointless? It won’t hold a charge anymore.

[spare garden]

it may or may not hold a charge... but the bigger problem is it may or may not short internally and spit fire

[clear kestrel]

I had never heard the term “spicy pillow” before you.

[spare garden]

[clear kestrel]

Hilarious

East bay (East side of Caldecott tunnel) is pretty node dry.

Was on a hill with an expansive view of everything between the delta, mt. Diablo and Danville and I only picked up two nodes. One of which was a guy driving to the city from Sacramento, who I believe is in this group. Are you 666 @mighty finch?

[mighty finch]

si

i put an antenna on my ride and picked up a bit

still struggling to understand how topics work

i guess if i stay at /msh/US/sacvalley
ill still see foreign nodes but they wont be on mqtt right?

and still communicate with the default primary?

ie AQ== longfast

[mighty finch]

also not sure whats going on there with two sacvalley topics

[fickle wedge]

That is odd, I wonder why there would be two sacvalley topics

@mighty finch where are you seeing this

[mighty finch]

Mqtt explorer

Ios app in app store.

I am as confused as you.

Nodesplit.?

Lol

[spare garden]

one probably has a space at the end?

[fickle wedge]

The dead one appears to be 0d50, which is not on my node list

the one with more topics is the one I am subscribed to

[bitter iron]

I've moved my Gateway node from msh/US/sacvalley to msh/US/CA/sacvalley

FWIW.
Also, I'v picked up ~37 nodes on my raspi/loraBonnet/python node in the last 36 hours. 20 of them were one-hit wonders. Tropo ducting probably responsible for most of them.

[fickle wedge]

When coming up with msh/US/sacvalley I was going by the convention of other more localized topics such as msh/US/elkgrove or msh/US/sacramentocounty

whether intentional or not, it does not look like the current setup follows a hierarchical topic list

[bitter iron]

primarily from lack of standards/governing body. When you just let people do "X", they will come up with every possible permutation of X and then fight over who is "right"

A single MQTT server, or even a cluster of servers, is going to be toast if Meshtastic ever really takes off. They're going to need to solve that problem sooner rather than later.

[fickle wedge]

I received the connector (SMA to N-type) and re-tested my hamfest antenna @clear kestrel @boreal creek

It's got an SWR of 1.46:1 on 908MHz

[bitter iron]

is that the yagi?

[fickle wedge]

so pretty good

no it's a $10 outdoor antenna I got at the Loomis hamfest

[spare garden]

collinear

[bitter iron]

Loomis had a hamfest? <sigh>
I went to the Lincoln "hamfest" a few months back, and was completely underwhelmed.

[fickle wedge]

@bitter iron this one

[bitter iron]

Ahh, good collinear is hard to come by. Also hard to re-tune.

[mighty finch]

0d50 is me also

[fickle wedge]

I was completely underwhelmed by the Loomis one, but scored at least that antenna

[spare garden]

I remade one 😆

[mighty finch]

oh a know

it was a space at the end of sacvalley

[fickle wedge]

@bitter iron loomis hamfest was just a junkyard of boat anchors and old hams hoping to pawn that junk off to over-nostalgic other old hams.

[mighty finch]

wah wah

they were all wearing yellow jackets like they do actual labor

is there some reason they wear safty vests?

[fickle wedge]

because officialness

Hey man, I'm guilty of a little whackerism myself, donning the vests and wannabe official-looking nametags and shoulder strapped HT's

[bitter iron]

I've actually got a really nice day-glo yellow mesh vest with nice pockets and "AMATEUR RADIO COMMUNNICATIONS" in big letters on the back. Got it for running the APRS tracking side of the Atlanta Marathon.

[boreal creek]

Should say 2-3 Baofeng's?

[fickle wedge]

I've got at least 2 day-glo vests in my car trunk right this moment.

[spare garden]

good for planting nodes

[clear kestrel]

That’s awesome! Are able to reach anyone?

[mighty finch]

but why?

like the only time i use mine is to sneak in somewhere

[fickle wedge]

@clear kestrel haven't put it up yet

[mighty finch]

usualy with a ladder and hardhat

hams just like wearing safty vest?

[fickle wedge]

I'm part of sac county ares so I have had to use them on occasion at events

[mighty finch]

its required at events?

[spare garden]

for safety

[fickle wedge]

It helps distinguish you from the normal rabble when you walk up on a med tent or the race organizers' command post

Required, probably not. Easier? yes.

[spare garden]

it increases your SNR

[mighty finch]

smh

hams are weird

and i like radios too.

lol

[boreal creek]

You think hams are weird... jump on any "prepper" group and anytime radio is brought up, no matter the use case or requirements, and "Baofeng" is the only answer.

Try to ask a couple follow-up questions like distance and terrain? Forget it, the answer is always Baofeng.

"I want a radio to communicate with my kid who lives close by. It needs to be small, work for a month between charges, and go 500 miles to where he's at.

Oh, and I'm not going to take a test and be put on a government list. YouTube videos? I don't have time to watch them or read a book. I just want something that works when SHTF."