us - NYC metro

[median gate]

MQTT uplink is handy for seeing how well your packets are propagating, or if you aren’t hearing activity

The nyme.sh MQTT server does not allow downlinking

eg https://meshview.nyme.sh/packet/3287598117 is interesting since it didn’t seem to get rebroadcast by Steiner Studios Tower LF. If it got heard by SSTL it should have had good reach after a hop

[gloomy sun]

Im on LF24 now. I will be sending my annoying messages this afternoon

Whats the language to use when looking for someone to confirm contact?

[median gate]

Nothing specific, if anyone picks it up they will likely reply. Any invitation to reply will encourage it. The vast majority of text traffic is still testing and acknowledgements

[daring moth]

Did you also change your primary channel name to nyme.sh while keeping the PSK as the default value of AQ==?

[gloomy sun]

just did

[misty gorge]

What was the eye roll emoji for @glossy pine ?

Because I said I don't know what you're doing there because Ive never been there?

Seems like undue harassment.

[rare sparrow]

Mr. Looking for a fight 😌

[misty gorge]

Is that me or Xam?

[rare sparrow]

Don’t have to be so confronted

Chill

[misty gorge]

Its just interesting that people literally say facts.. and they aren't accepted as such.

Little cultish.

Why should people chill when people harass them? Because you say so?

Anyways.. I thought it was a valid question to ask someone who is putting eye roll emoji's on factual statements. "I'm not sure what they are doing over there" means exactly that. If you read it as something else.. that's YOUR problem. Don't make it mine.

[gloomy sun]

drama!!!

[misty gorge]

Yup.. It wasn't always like that.. But now it seems like people have chosen sides and want to pick sides.. And sometimes when people pick a side, anyone that doesn't see things the way you do, automatically becomes the enemy. It's weird.

[gloomy sun]

if you are the darkside, ill join you

[misty gorge]

Nah.. I'm no side.

[gloomy sun]

just making fun lol

the darkside has more power tho. FYI

[rare sparrow]

Can I send over 1W 🥺

[misty gorge]

Sure can...

nothing's actually stopping you from doing it. But you can also just do it on the ham bands.

[rare sparrow]

Still need to get my ham license tho

Or otherwise

[misty gorge]

Not sure added power really makes sense at 900mhz anyway.. just get stuff higher

[rare sparrow]

‘FCC has requested you location’

[gloomy sun]

how much time and money does it cost to get HAM

license

[rare sparrow]

Fairly cheap actually

[misty gorge]

I think the test is like 30 bucks?? something like that. But the frequency is completely different than what you're doing now.

I don't know what meshtastic looks like on the ham band.. (someone insert an eye roll!!) But if you become a ham, you'll have so many other "off grid" comms devices that meshtastic may not be as interesting.

[rare sparrow]

You’ll need to use your call sign as you name and no encryption for you

Otherwise not much difference

[gloomy sun]

is it hard to pass the test

do i gatta nerd out

[misty gorge]

Right.. no encryption anymore. Just not sure how many hams are playing with meshtastic on the ham bands.

[misty gorge]

technician license is mainly rules. Probably need to study a bit.

[rare sparrow]

We do have #ham-and-commercial-radio channel

if you want to have a deep dive

Hello @median gate !

[median gate]

No, it’s multiple choice and all the possible questions are published so you can flash card your way through it. Worth doing, but not necessary or particularly important for meshtastic since its privileges come with limitations. See https://hamstudy.org/

[misty gorge]

Yeah the only perk is being able to run more power.

but I'm not sure how advantageous that really is in NYC.

[median gate]

Even in geographic areas where it matters, it’s not too useful since you can’t connect to any non-hams using that extra juice

Well, there’s debate about that, if the default encryption key is allowed or not

[misty gorge]

who the hell wants to text with random hams anyway.

[gloomy sun]

deeper the rabbit hole goes.

[misty gorge]

because it's a known key? I guess.. maybe it's no different than sending a digital packet.

[median gate]

The knowledge of RF concepts is definitely worth the test and helpful in a meshtastic context though

[misty gorge]

I think encryption is encryption though.. even if the key is known. It should not be allowed.

[median gate]

Right, the specific language of the rule prohibits intending to obscure the message. If the key is well known then it’s functionally the same as a digital modulation and not obscured, as the argument goes. But it’ll be a grey area until the FCC specifically says otherwise

Also what does well known mean. And so on

Like there are proprietary digital modes, which might as well be encryption in a way

[misty gorge]

Exactly.. legally you can't assume everyone has the key.. its encrypted unless you have the key.

[misty gorge]

Hmmmmmm.. I can see that argument also.

[median gate]

Anyway, yes the test is worth doing even for unlicensed mesh purposes. You can even do it remotely now. Lmk if you have any questions!

[misty gorge]

Like if you flash a meshastic device.. you have the "key".. if you buy a P25 radio.. you can hear P25

[misty gorge]

Remotely!?

[gloomy sun]

radios are sexy AF

[misty gorge]

This is the radio you want. https://persistentsystems.com/mpu5/

[median gate]

Yeah remote tests are a silver lining to the pandemic

[misty gorge]

Damn.. wow.. is there a proctor?

[median gate]

Yes, several join the call, and you need a second device watching your keyboard/hands so they can check for cheating

[misty gorge]

Wow.. interesting. Okay.. I'm glad you can't easily cheat.

[median gate]

So a little involved but not hard and worth the time/travel convenience

[misty gorge]

How do they know your second device pointing at your keyboard and hands is indeed you? haha

[gloomy sun]

i guess you cant just order that sucker on amazon. lol

[misty gorge]

maybe aliexpress.

[median gate]

You have to give a tour of the room first, so there aren’t signs or other info hanging on the walls or desk

[misty gorge]

I guess that's cool for some people that can't do in person.

[gloomy sun]

i read that fast and it said for some people that can do it in prison

i might need glasses

[median gate]

ha I suppose you could do it in prison, theoretically

[gloomy sun]

easy to pre scan the room

[misty gorge]

Can you transmit from prison though?

[gloomy sun]

we need to setup a few nodes for them in rykers

they are already in my covex

wondering what the convex means anyway

[misty gorge]

it look like you can be a felon and have a ham radio license.

but that doens't mean you can transmit from inside the prison, or the license is valid while you're in prison.

[gloomy sun]

You can be a felon and get a sex change these days

Whats a few radio signals

[median gate]

On the map? It’s just a naive “coverage area” based on the bounds of the nodes you’ve heard

[gloomy sun]

Its usually directional, i assume where more nodes are being picked up.

It is a cool visual

[median gate]

It’s literally just a polygon that includes all the nodes in your map

[gloomy sun]

I got one going out to Hawaii. Feels limitless 😝

[median gate]

Now that would be some magical tropospheric ducting

[gloomy sun]

20 hops! Lets go!!!

[untold cargo]

One thing with ham license... get a po box if you dont want your address public

[misty gorge]

This.. but PO box is like over $200 a year or something now.

[untold cargo]

Check around at ups stores and other sites

If you find cheaper than like 10 bucks a month let me know lol

[ashen venture]

generally you don't need a license to buy radios, just to use them.

[ashen venture]

yeah I have regrets about not doing this. will do it the next time I guess

[median gate]

you can update it to a PO box at any time, your previously entered address will still be in the public data record but much less accessible

[midnight mural]

I don't understand why people skirt around the "drama". I got into it with a mod. BFD.

Part of the NYC problem is LF20 doesn't work for a lot of people, like me, and some of the locals have decided that we needed a more organized way to get lots of nodes to test together to see if we are missing anything on the other presets. Granted, things happened fast and furious because I got put on timeout for a week for being extra mouthy, but this is what the people wanted. There are many presets for a reason, nothing says default is best, and so more organized testing began because of all of this.

This little channel can't support our area, millions of pizza lovers out there, so there is a place where we can grow with not only the NYC metro, but New York State at large. Lots of cities across the world are like this (I'm in one right now), and it's not a bad thing at all. Like most things, you don't have to do anything you don't want to, but we'd all (the tri-state area) love to see the local mesh be fucking amazing, that's really the end goal here. Is any of this perfect, no, but people are trying to have fun, learn shit, and help each other in the process. Maybe a little projection there at the end, but you get the idea.

I haven't really said much about it, it's cool, but I think it's been a little rough recently, so I wanted to chime in. I may be oblivious, I did not think it was a us vs. them (LF20/24, ROFLMAO) and I sure hope not. I don't think that there ever was a goal to start a rebellion, but more or less get on with the program like the path leads. All I want to do is pizza party blast the fuck out of NYC and the rest of the world so we can all have a good time and learn some stuff. Sorry I rained on your parade.

[gloomy sun]

Not to fuel the fire. Getting more responses and range on LF24 but not acknowledgements on this evening testing cycle.

[rare sparrow]

Good to know

Mine is the opposite 🥺

I’m seeing 0 nodes on LF24

I guess the “router” nodes for my location are all still on LF20

[gloomy sun]

Have you tried a different node? Helech or wisblock

Im getting solid acknowledgments in the street level which I didnt get all last week on 20.

I am running a new antenna as well.

The lilygo preformed horribly.

But my v3 is looking juicy in the big apple. 🍎

[median gate]

Exactly, it’s an experiment not a side to take. Also it’s a bit of a privilege sure but not at all prohibitive to run multiple frequencies. I just added an LF20 node to my roof since I had an idle rak and antenna.

[jaunty harness]

I had a MF node up for like 3 months before the latest test started, only 1 contact which was when zilla happened to be in the neighborhood 😄

[median gate]

Whereabouts are you, roughly? If you don’t mind

[jaunty harness]

I will also say I share Zumble's contention with LF20 being default and needing to leave beacons there to point people to LF24 (or whatever we end up on) - if it wasn't for LF20 we never would have found each other in the first place. That said Zumble and I have made contact once over RF across months of trying on LF20 and would love to try it on LF24

[rare sparrow]

Bay Ridge

[rare sparrow]

Yeah I have a RAK starter kit with the Alfa 5dbi antenna

I can see NJ/SI nodes pretty well on LF20 but hard to reach other parts of the NYC

[midnight mural]

You had a mother fucking node or a medium fast node 🙃

I see you understood the question 🍕

[median gate]

Hmm must be dependent on BRRN or something near it to get out to the rest. I almost have a clear line of sight to that area but not enough I guess

[misty gorge]

Honestly the drama makes me less motivated to flip over, but I know there are good people there. And someone has to sit on LF20 and help guys like @gloomy sun when they start out on LF20 and start playing around. Hehe

[median gate]

Logistics aside, there’s no reason there can’t be a literally a hundred meshes in an area on every frequency slot

[gloomy sun]

I feel like such an ahole now. I used you to get to LF24. Shame. Im going to run LF20 as well just to talk to Zumble. 😝

[midnight mural]

I think a large number of people run both, PizzaDeliveryDude proper and Technodrome really never leave LF20 because they travel

[median gate]

Wish I could manage a TR off it, I see it at only 1 hop

[rare sparrow]

🐭or🪤?

🐭 is on LF20

And 🪤 is on LF24 but out of town with me

[median gate]

🐭, from my rooftop LF20 node

[rare sparrow]

I probably really need a better location

It’s currently just sitting besides the 2FL window

And I don’t have accesss to the roof so

🥹

[rare sparrow]

I can sometimes direct TR downtown BK nodes on a good day

[celest brook]

i just took the general test a couple weeks ago

[gloomy sun]

Holy smokes. When i got home, i got both Williamsburg and Gramercy messages to Corona Queens. LF24 with roof node is a success.

I get my antenna tomorrow, and Wizblock is on its way.

Wish me luxk

[misty gorge]

Perm mount roof nodes are the key for getting out inside a building.

[median gate]

Even unspecified is permitted, with certain caveats. Clarity really only comes through a particular ruling. It’s a lot like how the UCI requires cycling teams use bikes that are “available to the general market”, and the teams constantly push the rules until eventually the UCI has to make a determination

[misty gorge]

Keep in mind you're burning a "hop" just to get out.

[median gate]

Height is might

[rare sparrow]

Client mute and hop +1 for the indoor node 🙌

[median gate]

Frustratingly you’ll often see messages run out of hops at the roof, but I don’t know if there’s a great way to solve that absent others increasing their hops

[gloomy sun]

copy that. i did set all my traveling nodes to client mute. that would help not burn out hops, and I set my travel node to 4 hops.

still have trouble in jackson heights area, seams quiet and im wondering where are all the forest hills people! I think i might go to forest park for coffee tommrow and see if i pick up any nodes

maybe another bike ride around queens center can help discover some as well

[median gate]

I also sometimes see messages that still had hops but weren’t rebroadcast because the roof heard another station rebroadcast first. Router late would address that but might disrupt the broader mesh. I need like a router_late_quiet or something that has just enough power for my building

[gloomy sun]

serious question, if you discover a new node, is it likely to communicate with it post discovery, or does it discover with a message

[gloomy sun]

thats interesting, like the zamboni that cleans up the ice

[jaunty harness]

older firmware will always send a NODEINFO to a "new" node ("new" meaning it's not currently in it's nodeDB even if it has seen it before)

[median gate]

Used to be whenever one node sees a new one, it exchanges node info with it

Er yeah beat me to it

[gloomy sun]

today has been very eventful! thank you all for the help.

[jaunty harness]

hehe yeah it was great for discovery but does not scale well

[median gate]

If you look at the firehose you see everything going on, very educational https://meshview.nyme.sh/firehose

[gloomy sun]

I will keep reporting my findings.

[gloomy sun]

that looked like the matrix to me.

[misty gorge]

I actually only have my node on client mute when I'm near my roof nodes. I switch back to client when roaming around because then you can be part of the organic mesh.

[gloomy sun]

when I got back to queens i wanted to side with zumble and say LF24 was a hoax, just for manhattan ACKs, but I retract.

[gloomy sun]

that makes sense.

[misty gorge]

I take no sides. I was always just saying LF20 is where people start and it's the accepted default. But people wanted to debate that.

[gloomy sun]

I have a tdeck on the way, so i may just end up carrying both devices.

[gloomy sun]

Im with Zumble. the noobs like me need some hope and love too.

[median gate]

FWIW I don’t think anyone disagreed with that

[misty gorge]

But people would argue the default can be changed or youre uncurious if you want to use LF20.

Silly things like that. When it was always just a reminder to consider some facts.

[median gate]

I don’t mean to belabor this all again but I didn’t take any of it that way, and I think it’s an uncharitable misreading of things

[gloomy sun]

Im excited to roll with the TDECK on LF20 and my V3 on LF24. i wonder if they will play nice

[median gate]

The t deck is very cool, though the software is a bit buggy still

[misty gorge]

You weren't the one being attacked.

[median gate]

Shows a lot of what the potential is!

[misty gorge]

People weren't adding eye roll emojis to your factual comments etc. And telling you that you were uncurious or whatever other slurs.

Hard to misread the eye roll emoji

Or bring flat out told you're uncurious when the person telling you this does not even know you.

[misty gorge]

It's just the natural progression right? You probably learned about Meshtastic on the Internet. The Internet told you to use some settings. You did it.. and not incorrectly.

I found you.. you found other nodes.

How were you supposed to know there was a secret cheat code you needed to type in when in NYC.

That was always my point.. all the guys you found on LF24 were on LF20. They moved that "infrastructure" to LF24 so it was not available anymore to new people.

That was always my point.

[median gate]

Another fun thing to do is run an SDR across the ISM band, here you can see LF20 (under the 907 MHz mark) and LF24 (under 908) in parallel very clearly

[misty gorge]

What would be interesting is to see a SDR sweep from a high area in multiple points in the city.

[karmic junco]

Right here

Getting jack nobody on lf20

[misty gorge]

Have you found other hams? They're out there I'm sure.. But I'd think the're more likely to play with APRS.. but I guess meshtastic devices are smaller.

[karmic junco]

Its sparse in NYC there are a few that are license holders (like myself) but not really active like ymself

But mainly I feel as if ham might be the last line of communication.

As our segregated mesh test has shown, its challenging if not everyone is there to strengthen. The mesh. And it's difficult to add more power or coverage individually

[jaunty harness]

that is a big heavy handed as it omits the existing nodes running "infrastructure" roles being abandoned on older firmware and poorly positioned that forced us to look at other options

otoh: test wasn't supposed to run this long, and we were supposed to jump back to LF20 for a couple months until we could better coordinate all of the NYCMesh roof nodes getting updates/swapped when Gardener has more free time (it's like 2/3rds right now)

[gloomy sun]

https://tenor.com/view/anthony-adams-rubbing-hands-together-spice-adams-vyd3n-meme-man-behind-tree-meme-gif-2569343513927502347

this shit is spicy in here.

[jaunty harness]

heh nah, me and Zumble have always been civil to each other - and i largely agree with him

[bold jay]

Hello all, I’m new here. Discovered this channel waiting for my t-beam to arrive

[jaunty harness]

welcome!!

[misty gorge]

Even when we disagree it's usually pretty civil.

[gloomy sun]

https://tenor.com/view/community-ken-jeong-ben-chang-ill-allow-it-allowed-gif-4468552

still juicy to watch.

[gloomy sun]

Welcome. we are 2 steps of speration. there is still time to run.

[jaunty harness]

🤞 i just wanna talk to Zumble over RF reliably no matter the preset/slot it takes🤞

[gloomy sun]

thats the sweetest thing anyone has ever said refrencing RF

[misty gorge]

but sporatic contacts was damn exciting!

It was like making a DX contact on HF. haha

[jaunty harness]

haha it was one time ONE TIME

[misty gorge]

If the conditions allowed, we made a contact.

[karmic junco]

Welcome. Tbeams which one

[misty gorge]

It felt great though....... 🫣

[jaunty harness]

hrmm, don't think we tried after Harlem Relay got switched to CLIENT

[karmic junco]

Here's my problem. Every method has issues. I'm just having problems even reaching a mile right now

Geography is hurting me big time.

If I want it to work at home, I need to switch to whatever everyone else is on.

[misty gorge]

Sounds like you need a balloon on a teather.

[jaunty harness]

hahaha yeah, height is might!

[misty gorge]

Someone turned me onto this today.

[karmic junco]

Right now I have between 1.1 to 2 percent chutil. And this is without seeing any of my 5 active nodes

[jaunty harness]

LOL I hit 5% just inside my apt

[karmic junco]

Being at sea level really blows for this

[misty gorge]

https://sondehub.org/#!mt=Mapnik&mz=11&qm=3h&mc=40.72645,-73.40378&f=25022151&box=aboutbox

[jaunty harness]

yeah i'm "only" 2nd flr, but already up on a slight incline of a hill and 125+ year old warehouse so that first floor is an almost 30ft ceiling

[misty gorge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLpyTodmfg8

[bold jay]

Supreme

[karmic junco]

Oh good. Otherwise you will have some sisues

So I'm standing on the overpass of the lie

[bold jay]

I have access to a decently high window in midtown facing south with a clear view. Might be able to get a node there. Unfortunately no roof access

[karmic junco]

And I'm only 11m msl

0 chutil

Ok .9

On lf20

[jaunty harness]

its actually unusually quiet over here, 1% on the window node (LF24)

[misty gorge]

@karmic junco balloon node for science.......

[karmic junco]

In NYC this could be problematic

[misty gorge]

Like 75 feet....

[karmic junco]

I'm literally walking around. For miles south to gain elevation.

Same with ham for most of us. Unless you've got a massive antenna with you..or a repeater is functional...

[misty gorge]

Yea even if your setup is perfect, you aren't getting out if your RF is being attenuated by something.

[karmic junco]

Ya. Like everything.

And again , strange because helium works fine. And kinda well

My helium node shows direct contact into Westchester and yonkers

Maybe it's these t1e

I need likE access to a curch top

[jaunty harness]

So you’re saying … Helium antenna on a Helium filled balloon?

[karmic junco]

That would have some phenomenal range.

I think we know already that altitude fixes al

But helium dies without Internet and community base stations.

And that's pretty fickle

I had spectrum, TMO, and Starlink fail for like half a day

In the same week

That's pretty crazy

[median gate]

Oh hey a TR made it through, and a slightly different return

[rare sparrow]

Yeah I can sometimes direct TR Casa de Timon on a good day

[median gate]

Welcome! I’ll keep an eye out for it on the air

[median gate]

In the meantime, https://nyme.sh has a lot of info about meshing in the area, and https://meshview.nyme.sh can give you a good look into much of it

[bold jay]

Thank you! I appreciate it

[gloomy sun]

I woke up to 3 good morning messages. Meshers are sweeter than my ex girlfriend. ♥️

[midnight mural]

The defaults can totally be changed. Why do you keep saying that? It’s like right there in all of the interfaces?

[misty gorge]

But again.. NOBODY (at least not me) is arguing that.

I simply say.. its the default everyone ends up on.

Like literally its a fact that does not need debate.

We saw it in action in real life with @gloomy sun this week and like.. everyone else here.

@karmic junco and I did not coordinate which channel to get on for NYC

[rare sparrow]

Let’s why we are looking for ideas from other cities using non-standard freq 😉

If we did end up moving to non standard

[misty gorge]

yeah non standard is fine.. but lets not debate that the default accepted standard is LF20!

[rare sparrow]

How to minimize the friction

[misty gorge]

this is crazy to debate this when everyone here was fucking on it.

https://tenor.com/view/feelings-i-am-crazy-pills-gif-19623103

Nobody in this room had a discussion months or years ago on which channel to choose.

And there will continue to be people stumbling onto the default accepted standard of LF20.. a month from now.. a year from now.

tomorrow.

Its like asking what kind of battery you have in your car.

the default accepted standard..is a 12v battery

you can surely change that if you like.

[rare sparrow]

I think Germany uses non standard and the left nodes in LF20 broadcasting “we moved to __”

[misty gorge]

when youtubers and meshtastic content creators start telling people LF24 or.. "you should check with your local people" then you can say it's not the accepted default standard.

[rare sparrow]

Whether it’s effective it’s debatable

But yes LF20 is the default

[misty gorge]

I was thinking about this.. and it's weird to spam LF20 when people claim they leave LF20 cuz of traffic and noise.

[rare sparrow]

We need to think about a way to let people know

[misty gorge]

like we left LF20 cuz of all the stations on it being noisy.. but let's spam LF20 to tell people to go to LF24

The concept is really weird. I thought it was logical when it was first brought up, but now that I think deeper into it, it's a little weird.

Maybe once a day beacon?

twice maybe?

[rare sparrow]

Can’t do drones in NYC, or else just get one up and blast few times a day 😂

[misty gorge]

But anything more would be pretty disrespectful for people using LF20.

[gloomy sun]

Flushing Queens and Forest hills were a total flop on LF24. Even with line of sight on high perch.

Wondering if the hot weather is hammering my roof node

And i seen a freaking dinosaur 🦖

On my home node map. South of me.

This shit is getting crazy

[misty gorge]

What's on your roof? If you have a proper roof node (solar) it should be loving life.. kinda

over 100f in each one of my nodes right now though.. hehe

[gloomy sun]

Im in tuppawear. A glass one. I think its baking

[misty gorge]

no vent?? just fucking clear?

its probably dead already. hahaha

[gloomy sun]

Fuck it. Sometimes experimenting has to get messy

[misty gorge]

or cause a fire..... haha

[median gate]

Nobody was denying that LF20 is the default, because yeah it’s a basic fact. The “move” by many operators to a non-default preset is just a temporary experiment to see what difference it makes given the current arrangement of nodes. It’s not an effort to create a separate community or add friction to newcomers. Though it has that effect and to that end I think we’re all eager to see how other regions that have moved off the defaults handle it. If it even makes sense to stay off the defaults here.

[gloomy sun]

Does LF24 exsist in queens? There has got to be more nodes here!

[misty gorge]

yea we agree.. I've never wanted to cause conflict. I've always just pointed out what should be the obvious.

[median gate]

It is obvious and I think your insistence on pointing it out is what rankled people, as if it hadn’t already been discussed

[gloomy sun]

I feel like im playing pokemon looking for these guys

[misty gorge]

Welp someone could just say it was discussed blah blah blah.

[gloomy sun]

Is this a discussion about the discussion

[misty gorge]

matrix shit.

We say the same shit to people again and again all the time. I don't think it's an excuse to be rude to anyone.

its one thing if you tell the same person something again and again.. but new people.. nah.. no excuse for it.

[karmic junco]

Well, it's a little more than that. We literally went to somewhere else because there are a few I'll configured nodes in high places that are causing some people issues

This is like the literal IRC channel. Someone comes in the channel, starts spanning crap, and we move to a new channel

The problem is still there. If someone has a misconfigured node in a good location and is using lf24... We would still have an issue

I don't have anything to test background noise and interference, but I will say out toward eastern Queens I don't see much.

Currently at 3 percent chutil. And that's with the misconfigured relay nodes still being misconfigured.

Because I can't see them at all

And the fact that most of the more active people are not on it currently. So that's the hypothetical; were we the ones who created our own issues

Kinda like crime; if we keep letting criminals out of jail, and they keep commiting crimes, aren't we causing our own crime problems.

[misty gorge]

So I visited sing sing prison recently.. well.. did a sing sing prison tour (its done outside)

Ossining is beautiful.. I think people should do the tour.

[karmic junco]

Ooh the big house

Ya it's a beautiful place

[misty gorge]

The tour was done by two guys that did 25 years.

Great information.. amazing nice guys.

learned a ot.

a lot

I felt so bad.. I talked to one of them so much that he missed his break between tours.

Anyways.. some of the guys want to change.

totally a tangent.. but figured it the touring sing sing thing would be interesting to some.

most interesting thing was the concept of transitional housing.

[karmic junco]

Prison is a constant reminder of a loss of freedom

[misty gorge]

So one of the guys is currently in transitional housing.

which the funding of may be going away

What transitional housing is.. housing for people who get out of jail where they live alone.. can have visitors and have access to counseling etc.

Lots of people may scoff at it and say its a wate of money.

But the guy I was talking to said it may be saving his life and saving his family.

[karmic junco]

I am not judging, but you know we spend more to try and rehabilitate criminals than we do for their victims

Like you get slashed and stabbed, there is no government assistance.

[misty gorge]

Right but hear me out..

it feeds into that kinda

So the transitional housing.. he says.. gives him a safe place to be after being away from society for 25 years. like so much has changed in 25 years.

he's spent 25 years in a noisy crowded prison.

He doesn't even know how to interact with his family anymore.

[karmic junco]

What did he do time for

[misty gorge]

guys that don't do transitional housing.

I actually thought it would be rude to ask so I didn't.

but he said guys that don't do transitional housing come out afte rlike 25 years.. and they don't know this world.. so they go back doing what they knew when they went in.. they feel like they have nothing else.

[karmic junco]

You do 25 for a lot of things, but mostly when they are violent, seriously injury, death, or significant impraived difference to life

[misty gorge]

or they get put back in with their family and that all goes to shit becuase all they want is some quiet after 25 years.

[misty gorge]

yea agreeed.. knowing 25.. I know it wasn't some petty shit.

[karmic junco]

If you only look at this one side of of the coin , it looks like a worthwhile path

But the victim on his receiving end and their family

[misty gorge]

Oh wait.. I think one of them mentioned what they were in for.. it was armed robbery.. but they didn't hurt anyone.. they were just in the group or something like that.

[karmic junco]

Have been dealing with this for 25 years.

[karmic junco]

Sure they were.

[misty gorge]

yeah, I'm not gonna judge cuz I wasn't there and didn't see it. What I can tell you is the dude seems likea nice reasonable dude now

[karmic junco]

Lost of testosterone helps

[misty gorge]

he said while he was in there he made sure to just steer clear of trouble and better himself.

[karmic junco]

And that's what 25 years does

[misty gorge]

possible.. but both dudes were jacked still.. hhahaha

Anyways.. I'd say the experience was kinda life changing in a small way. Never had so much contact with a person that did 25 years before.

again ossining is beautiful and they are offering tours around sing sing .. its mostly history though.

so weird.. One of the guys was kinda obsessing over one of the women on the tour.

He was like.. you look like some celebrity.. I can't figure out who... blah blah.

multiple times.

he even asked to take a picture withher.

She was really nice about it.. she was like.. well.. if you take a picture and post it.. people will tell you who I am.

It turns out.. she was the former mayor of ossining. she was on the tour.. kinda cool.

[karmic junco]

Would you trust them to babysit your kids

[misty gorge]

Umm... thats tough.. cuz we had like 2 hours of interaction and maybe 30 min of one on one type time.

he admits he has problems sometimes and needs quiet time.

so yea.. no.. I know he's not babysitter material.

But not gonna say he's an evil person.

[jaunty harness]

tbf: I'm not exactly babysitter material either (unless it's your nodes, I'd babysit the heck out of them)

and yeah N Westchester is beautiful, pretty much once you go past White Plains everything reaaaally starts spreading out

[misty gorge]

Some good food up there too.

[jaunty harness]

I used to Valet park at Kittlehouse in Chappequa and they'd occassionally feed us 🤤

[misty gorge]

FANCY!

[karmic junco]

Not baby sitter material I guess is a loaded term. There is a major difference of you don't know how to handle kids vs my kids may be dismembered raped and eaten.

[misty gorge]

nah. I don't think this dude is gonna be raping or dismandling or eating anyone.. I don't think he is a sex offender.

but surely you can't say a guy locked up for 25 years and in transition housing could be someone you'd want babysitting. I think this dude would understand too.

[karmic junco]

Perhaps. I let God do the forgiving.

I hold a grudge.

[misty gorge]

See we don't agree.. and it's been nice. hhahaa

[karmic junco]

I thought we were agreeing!

Lol.

Like if your gf or wife cheats on you, it may never happen again, but they trust is gone.

And it's kinda the same for criminals. I bet you 5 nodes that this guy had priors

Not just the 25 year sentence.

If you look up the stats, there are very few single events that end up doing hard time

[misty gorge]

yea, I don't know and I don't think betting on that is fair.

My point is.. some people reform.

[karmic junco]

Like that Idaho killer no priors

[misty gorge]

and I think I saw an example of it.

[karmic junco]

Think he can reform?

[misty gorge]

Oh .. I'm not sure my two guys killed anyone.

[karmic junco]

Only because you know there is a strong chance you might loose

[misty gorge]

I know for sure one of them was just kinda "running with the wrong crowd"

Murders are def a different class.

[karmic junco]

If you have his full name we can look it up

[misty gorge]

damn it.. I'm so bad with names!!!!

you probably knew that and knew that would be your ace.

damn you!

I think one of them was named Hakeem

run with that.. hahhaa

[karmic junco]

Just convenient you forgot.

[karmic junco]

Omg next your going to say he was a jacked black dude

[misty gorge]

I'm avoiding going down that road....

https://tenor.com/view/elizabeth-banks-dont-make-me-gif-10065980

[karmic junco]

Road is already paved. Whether you go down it doesn't change it's existence

I think that's where most discussions break down. People get caught in the political aspect rather than the factual aspect.

[misty gorge]

to be honest.. the two guys were jacked and black.. but I wouldn't have guessed they were 25 year inmates if we weren't doing a prison tour.

[karmic junco]

If people could have discussions. With numbers and stats it becomes way more interesting.

[misty gorge]

Even before they told us.. I kinda made that assumption but in my mind was.. damn.. have zero hard facts to back this up.

[karmic junco]

They walk backwards a lot?

Always facing you with their full chest?

Like when they talk they walk backwards to see you?

[misty gorge]

Dude.. they explained what that jail walking thing was...

I forgot what it's called now.

[misty gorge]

No.. i don't think more that necessary to guide.. we def walked behind them a lot and they lead us with their backs to us.

[karmic junco]

I'm not going to say I get it right 100 percent of the time, but I'm mostly right. Most try not to let you know they did it. They try and disguise it. They even make you call them by s nickname so you can't public search it

And it's incredibly hard for them to get those because nobody wants to trust them.

[misty gorge]

Meh.. technically they both did their time..

yea.. I'll bet it's tough to get a job.. lucky their are prison tour jobs.

[karmic junco]

Not enough to hire them all

Oj... Innocent?

[misty gorge]

yea absolutely true.. One of them is studying at columbia for some sort of civil job... the other one said he worked in the library in the jail until they closed the library.

[karmic junco]

Technically oj and epstien are both innocent.

[misty gorge]

If the glove doesn't fit.... you must aquit!

[karmic junco]

Weed store license. Criminals get dibs. Can you imagine?

Ok... MJ

[misty gorge]

yea that was some weird shit.

[karmic junco]

Well that just goes to my issue with how money is spent

[misty gorge]

I mean.. I kinda see the logic.... can't get a job.. but talk about fucking over correction.

[karmic junco]

Virtually 0 support for victims n

Like y victims pay their own medical, psychological, security, etc..

[misty gorge]

There should both be money for victims and for reform.

you know how can pay for that?

[karmic junco]

Then you take their tax dollars and giving funding and cable TV to the very same people who caused their trauma.

[misty gorge]

Elon and Jeff.

[karmic junco]

25 years ago there was no Elon or jeff

[misty gorge]

absolutely true.. but we can't live in the past. haha

probably more so jeff and elon I could argue maybe..

[karmic junco]

I just don't agree that if there is 5 dollars to give, that it should be given to those who caused the trauma vs those who were victims.

[misty gorge]

right.. true..

[karmic junco]

If every pro athlete gave 1 percent we would be good too

[misty gorge]

that's lame.. but maybe 4 to victims and 1 to trauma

but in actuality there should be like 100 bucks to go around for both.

[misty gorge]

also true.

[karmic junco]

Statistically the largest percentage of pro athlete in America is... Hispanic or black.

[misty gorge]

they literally make their money of poorer people.

like jeff.

[karmic junco]

Meaning NBA NFL etc

[misty gorge]

that's why I think elon.. as much as people want to hate elon...

I'm gonna say Jeff should be more on the hook than Elon for paying into society.

[karmic junco]

That's a loaded statement. Because once you make more money then someone else your making money off them

[misty gorge]

fucking jeff is sending katy perry into space.

[karmic junco]

Look at the Clinton foundation.

[karmic junco]

High orbit.

[misty gorge]

i stand corrected. hahhaa

[karmic junco]

😂

[misty gorge]

jeff's whole business is consumer goods. basically poorer people giving him money.

[karmic junco]

That's every customer including myself n

[misty gorge]

I'm not sure that line can be drawn as clear with Elon.

[karmic junco]

There is literally few places where I can pickup components. Even radio shack didn't have the selection.

Micro center, Fry's etc

[misty gorge]

Radio what??

[karmic junco]

Dude you too young

[misty gorge]

Don't tell me there was a store a one point that sold radios......

why would I do that instead of getting it from jeff?

[karmic junco]

Radio shack. Sold radios. Parts. Antennas ,

[misty gorge]

I know.. hhaa

https://tenor.com/view/gotcha-bitch-bitch-stuck-stick-with-me-caught-gif-5671210

[karmic junco]

Abyhow I've been watching the news where people are complaining about cuts in medical service.

The funny thing is, we're not in the new fiscal year.

So the cuts made by the hospitals and service plans are doing it now .. even though they already have the money for the rest of the fiscal term. It wasn't retroactive to the prior agreements

It's kinda like I know I will not have funding in January but the money I set aside to pay you runs until dec 31, but I'm letting you go now

And most people confused Medicare with Medicaid

Medicare is the elderly one , Medicaid is when you claim you have no money

I have pictures somewhere where the school down by metrotexh threw out like boxes and boxes of text books

Brand new.

In the wonderful world of govt waste, too much red tape to donate it, considered stealing if you take it home.

[misty gorge]

that's so sad.

[karmic junco]

They also tossed new white boards and chairs

[misty gorge]

what??!?!!? the fuck....

can you take them?

or would you be stealing?

[karmic junco]

I did I took a few.

They don't care you took jt

That's the rediculous part.

Also, nobody takes books in the hood

Like stealing condoms from cvs

They have some of the best libraries in BK and Bronx.

Way larger than queens.

[misty gorge]

chris rock says that's the best place to hide your money in the hood.

[karmic junco]

Dont like assassins hide guns in books? Lol

[misty gorge]

seems like a lot of work.. gotta cut the book out.. what do you use? like a dremel?

[karmic junco]

They now have some branches with free summer lunch.

[misty gorge]

I don't think it can be a rotory tool.

[karmic junco]

Exacto knife?

[misty gorge]

like.. slowely yea...

[karmic junco]

I'm shocked at the number of people who use the library daily n

Ane use their computers.

[misty gorge]

They there for the free internet or the quiet?

[median gate]

all wildly off topic but I couldn’t let this go unaddressed: Medicaid covers assisted living for elderly, and there are automatic Medicare cuts triggered by the big beautiful bill (~$500B over 8 years)

[karmic junco]

Maybe both. I dunno but like some come to read the news papers, others are net surfing.

I just don't think I'd ever come to the library to surf the net.

[misty gorge]

I thought Obama was the one that was gonna kill our grandparents.

[karmic junco]

This is correct, but not if you have any assets

You won't quality for Medicaid

[misty gorge]

I think there are ways around that.. now we are getting way off.

haha

[karmic junco]

5 year look back yada yada

[misty gorge]

you basically start gifting early on.. run down to nothing.. have "govt" foot the bill after.

[median gate]

Property does not count so this ends up being a lot of people very quickly after they exhaust their savings

[karmic junco]

Yes. But your literally trying to work around the system.

[misty gorge]

yeah.. and the problem is so many people have worked around the system that its sucky to take that away from other people.. I'm not saying its right.

As always.. I just try to see both sides.

I would much rather people don't take advantage.

[karmic junco]

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, I think the system is fucked if those who contributed have to do these rediculous things to get care, whereas if you went to prison for 25 years you get free elder care

Your tour guide will probably qualify for SSI and Medicaid when they hit 62

[misty gorge]

pretty sure Hakeems parents died in a car accident....

which caused his falling into a life of crime dude.

https://tenor.com/view/jim-halpert-puts-back-seat-hides-the-office-gif-11361131

[karmic junco]

Is this another gotcha

[misty gorge]

I made that up. hhaa

Hakeem is probaby not even his real name. haha

[karmic junco]

Ya his parents went to go get milk

[misty gorge]

His parents were gunned down behind a NYC opera house.

[karmic junco]

Pssh he should have become Batman

[misty gorge]

How do we know he's not??? becuase he's not white!?!?!?! OMG!!!!

hear me out.. he was jacked.

[karmic junco]

Everyday is chest and arm day

Can't help the genetics. Piss poor diet and a 6 pack

[misty gorge]

batman is a stupid super hero anyway.

[misty gorge]

this is true... but lets not go down that road of why the genetics.

[karmic junco]

Too bad the. Number one killer of black man above the age of 45 is diabetes and heart disease.

[misty gorge]

that's another story..

[karmic junco]

It's just genetics. We didn't code it.

Someone or something else eie. Heck we may find out in 2027.

[misty gorge]

Who ever buys 23 and me will figure it out.

[karmic junco]

I always find politics funny. Where they used to say "one drop" would make you black. But it you apply the same reasoning, "one drop makes you white"

[misty gorge]

I can't say I understand that.

[jaunty harness]

it was the original owners that bought it back, which is like.. ok where were those millions before you went bankrupt and how are you not just gonna run it back into the ground making the same bad decisions?

[karmic junco]

It's an interesting sell

If you buy 23 and me, and then the user agreements aren't bound anymore

So id just sell a monthly subscription fee to all of law enforcement.

Do your DNA testing with us and get a free lookup!

Now we will really check if Elizabeth Warren is Pocahontas

I'm surprised nobody has hacked 23 and me

Like either they have a great cyber security team or, I dunno what .

Btw is there a node ignore?

[jaunty harness]

like a setting to ignore a node? there's lora.ignore_incoming which is array of !userid you don't wanna hear

[misty gorge]

da hell!?? There has to be some scam there.

[misty gorge]

II thought that did happen.

[jaunty harness]

https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/14/business/23andme-wojcicki-dna-data only $300m, nbd 🙄

[misty gorge]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/tech/hackers-access-7-million-23andme-profiles

CNN though.. I heard the make up stories.

some would say.. its fake news.

[jaunty harness]

but what if fake news is fake news... would that make it real news?

[misty gorge]

We're living in the matrix.

[jaunty harness]

https://imgur.com/ihVjQGe

[gloomy sun]

my favorite books, Papillon and Conte de monte cristo! great jail books

sorry late to the conversation but i really want to talk about my sexy ass roof antenna

I installed it like I originally said, which you guys advised against... 32ft wire*

Consolation is I will be adding an additonal solar node this week

are they going to play nice near eachother?

[misty gorge]

All wire has loss. you're dealing with very low power stuff.

why do you need the antenna with 32 feet of wire at all?

[gloomy sun]

because i want to power the node and have the node in my room but still have the antenna on the roof.

Its more fun to test and change nodes arounbd

i saw some people connect by wifi when its out of bluetooth range but i havent figured that out yet

[jaunty harness]

There’s also Remote Admin where you add the publickey from node A to node B’s “admin keys” and then can use A to proxy cfg changes to B

[midnight mural]

Works a treat too!

[karmic junco]

News on fake news is still real news

[karmic junco]

Ya someone advised against it being that it is low power to me as well

[misty gorge]

the the legal limit emitted at the radiator?

run a 1w node and be legal by the time it exits the antenna!

[gloomy sun]

boost the signal?

https://tenor.com/view/devilish-grin-gif-15993726

[misty gorge]

allegedly.....

[gloomy sun]

what are the repercussions?

[misty gorge]

technically you'd need a premap also to boost the recieve.

I'm not saying do it. I'm very much against these types of shananigans.

[gloomy sun]

thats prob out of my league

[misty gorge]

cuz once you start trying to skirt the rules, the lines just get drawn further and further.

[gloomy sun]

this is true.

[misty gorge]

known good formula.. solar roof node

[gloomy sun]

what antenna should i buy for the solar node

i was looking in the solar chat, but its hard to scan

[misty gorge]

depends connector type you want.. how robust.

how low profile or loud you want it.

its kind of a personal thing.

[gloomy sun]

i got the enclosure and the 3.3 ft sma male to n male cable

and the panel

just waiting for the wisblock

and have to pick the antenna

is less DB better?

[misty gorge]

N male?

[gloomy sun]

shorter?

[gloomy sun]

yeah the roof antenna i boughtwas a female

[misty gorge]

yea, was gonna say.. thats gonna mean you can't use something like the alfa

sounds like you're using larger antennas.

[gloomy sun]

i have space for the larger antenna if it helps range

or the network

[misty gorge]

3 foot on a mast may be better than 6 foot antenna.

really depends how crazy you want to get.

[gloomy sun]

so you think the alfa shorty on to of the enclosure direct to node is better than a larger fella

im going to go take a pic of the one i put in so you guys could roast me.

[misty gorge]

yeah pic would help.

I run alfas on my nodes directly connected to the box.

it keeps the whole thing compact.

but height is might.

the further you can get from obstructions, the better.

i don't believe an alfa is any better than a dinky SMA antenna.. but it's certainly more robust for outdoor use.

are those cell panels??

probably not great to mount anything to those.

maybe someone else has experience mounting meshtastic nodes next to cell equipment.

but I'm gonna say it's probably not the best practice.. besides the legalities of it.

If you do commit to that.. fuck it.. just get proper mounts for the antenna instead of zipties.

[gloomy sun]

Im not committed, just temporary for testing

[misty gorge]

any other options up there?

I assume your window is right under that though.

[gloomy sun]

Correct. Its the streamlined install to get up and running

[misty gorge]

not sure what the mushroom is.. could be a temp or air sensor.. but if it's a transmitter, it's likely something higher frequency range too.

ideally you wouldn't place your antenna next to another radiator.

[misty gorge]

You're also doxing yourself with this pic haha

[gloomy sun]

What pic 😝

[misty gorge]

But yea.. that opposite side of the rail is probably fine.

assuming that cone isn't another 900mhz transmitter.

[gloomy sun]

Wonder what its for.

[misty gorge]

may be telemtry for the HVAC??

[gloomy sun]

I think i might go alfa like you suggested and make it compact and nimble. Just incase i want to relocate it.

[misty gorge]

My suggestion..

it looks like ao good site to err.. light up that landmark..

so that mushroom area is good..

looks like you'd want a upward facing solar panel though.

cuz you may not have clear shot at sun

with a box mounted horizonal

and you want to get it facing south if possible.

so I would do this.

get some sort of pipe. nothing too thick.

metal is probably better than PVC.

mount up a solar panel on bottom facing up.. mount the node with antenna on top.

go up there and just bolt on two U clamps.

for the pipe get one as long as reasonable.. like 3 feet?

5 feet if you way to get craaaaaaay..

anything larger I think you're bordering on being irresponsible and someone may remove it for you.

how tall is the pipe with the mushroom?

[gloomy sun]

Approximately 12ft from roof floor.

[misty gorge]

I mean from the rail its sitting on

I'm guessing you'd want to mount your node on the other end of that rail, right?

I'd at least match the height, if not go a bit higher.

by a bit I mean 1-2 feet.

[gloomy sun]

Yup. Mount it right to the rail with the strap kit

Im going to get all my ducks in a row and try and implement this week.

Wondering how those nodes will work together. Will both in client kill hops?

[misty gorge]

you probably want one in client mute.

you can also set one node to ignore packets from the other node.

[gloomy sun]

Kinda sucks though i want both of them to function as passive.

If not that many nodes in the area. Would this type of roof node be prime for a router or repeater setup?

Im not picking up anyone in the area.

[median gate]

no, a router should see a LOT of nodes

specifically, it should see a lot of nodes that generally cannot see each other

the best contribution to the mesh is pocket be client mute, and rooftop be client. otherwise, the pocket will likely pre-empt the rooftop since it has a weaker RX and will rebroadcast sooner, causing the rooftop to cancel its rtx

[median gate]

for example, my current opinion is that P3NY (or P2NY?) and P0NY should be ROUTER_LATE, since they are topologically central to the network, and can each see a fair number of nodes that can't see each other https://meshview.nyme.sh/nodegraph

[proven grove]

Ok, I tried to read through all the back and fourth from the last few days about LF20/24, and my ADHD/Dyslexia kicked in, and I didn't get past Aug 5th...

that being said to those of us that have multiple nodes and tend to carry 2+ at a time: Just put one on each band and be done with it. That's what I'm doing. (Haven't seen a single node on LF24 yet though, but patiently waiting)

[median gate]

FWIW in the other discord the growing consensus is switch back to LF20 defaults now and reassess (it was a temporary experiment after all)

@proven grove whereabouts are you, roughly?

[jaunty harness]

i have a cell-site 1/4 block away, band pass filter fixed the interference

[jaunty harness]

depends on the SMA antenna, those bendy ones are basically skip but TE Connectivity Linx and Taoglas TI.09.A.0111 have been awesome for me. Alfa is def great for outdoor, super easy to slap self-sealing tape over the base/connector to waterproof things, the 5dBi claim is hilariously off though

[daring moth]

DigiKey also has the same TE Connectivity Linx antenna: https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/te-connectivity-linx/ANT-916-CW-HW-SMA/2694126

[proven grove]

I live in Westchester but commute to Times Square 3x a week.

[median gate]

hmm both tough locations for the current LF24 network

reminds me that I need to get my relative on a bit of a ridge in yorktown heights to host a rooftop node

[proven grove]

Coincidentally, i have 2 of these and have had very poor experiences with them...

[misty gorge]

Oh yea.. I was counting on it being off. It's actually ideal if you're under the antenna with node.

[proven grove]

I have a 1W Washtastic on my roof at the train station multiple times a week.

[misty gorge]

yo.. I hear gogo curry is back.

[proven grove]

WHAT!? When!?

[misty gorge]

That's what I was told..they apparently had a promotion a few weeks back.

check it.

[daring moth]

I just brought that up because @jaunty harness linked to the same antenna on Amazon.com, which is less likely to be genuine while also costing more than DigiKey.

[jaunty harness]

it doesn't look the best on a VNA but actual use (and the actual node's ground plane) seems to work fine, buddy in AustinMesh put me onto them - that said I prefer the Taoglas for the window 🦊 but it's a little bit bigger/longer than the TE

[proven grove]

Ok ok I'll give it another try.

[misty gorge]

Don't be "that guy". I think the general rule is.. if you're not on top of 1 world trade, you should not be in router mode. hehe

I know where you live now.... its not One World Trade.. hahhaha

[jaunty harness]

and Alec made a good point that maybe one of the pony expresses should be router_late since dkTower on 85th flr of 1WTC is north facing

i will say that on LF24 I got a TR to Asra, and at 2 hops!!! through dkTower

[misty gorge]

is asra the forest hills one?

[jaunty harness]

yeah

[misty gorge]

damn.. took my node away so I can't mesh from dannys pizza anymore.

[jaunty harness]

but 🍕 and go together so well! 😄

[misty gorge]

haha

we should convince pizza places to install nodes on their roofs.

pizza mesh... and we can install a MQTT gateway

and we can call it..

Pizza Ga.

Okay maybe not.

[midnight mural]

NYCPizzaIsBetterThanConnecticutPizza.mqtt.com

😉

sorry CT, it's just for the bit 🙂

[jaunty harness]

fwiw: the specific nodes i'm running them on are Wio L1 Tracker (with SYBP-92+ filter) and a pre-nRF+Wio Kit xiao nRF + WioSX1262 (pcb v1.1 from esp32 kit + DBP915VA filter, the really narrow one that 💩 for LF20/24 vs MF/MS default slots)

[misty gorge]

Oh man..this is not true....

new haven pizza slaps pretty hard.

[gloomy sun]

Genuine question, i know my role. Its light comedy and outlandish noob stuff.

[gloomy sun]

I dont know what this means but it sounds sexy AF!

[misty gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-pissed-off-dwayne-johnson-wwe-gif-8510239

Your role.. is either client or client mute... Ya Jabroni...

[gloomy sun]

Ok. Here is another good one

[misty gorge]

damn he looks young there.

[gloomy sun]

Why can we all just add more hops? Does it bog down the mesh?

Dont we want further reach?

[misty gorge]

but it may not actually get further. it may just bounce around in a circle..

[gloomy sun]

😥

[misty gorge]

As other have mentioned.. just because you get out doesn't mean someone can get to you.

[gloomy sun]

2 clients will bounce back to each other with extra hops. Fucking losers

[misty gorge]

if everyone set their hops to 15 you'd just end up with mesh that's always busy passing crap around.

[lament wing]

Turning up hops is fine

Just make sure that you dont have crazy intervals

Like position every 15 seconds

Or just turn it up and turn it down after you are done

[gloomy sun]

Hmm. Interesting

[misty gorge]

But keep in mind you can turn it up and maybe get to someone..but they may not have enough hops to get to you.

so you'll never get the reply.

[gloomy sun]

Just doing the mental model and if a north facing roof node hops to south facing roof and then out to further south. That kills 2 hops.

[misty gorge]

yeah.. so do like 7.. pretty reasonable I think.

But you may not get replies from people on the edge.

[gloomy sun]

The metro area needs more hops because you have to go up and out and then back down? Correct?

[misty gorge]

well kinda yes and no.. if you're relying on a roof node to get out.. then yes.. you're burning a hop.

like I rely on a roof node to get out.. and another higher node just to get out onto the general mesh.. so I burn 2 just to get out.

so my conservative setting is 5.

Not sure if everyone has agreed to use a larger number.

[gloomy sun]

Yes. I heard that somewhere that many hops causes issues. The last thing you want is a network circle jerk.

I will keep all secondary devices client mute and 2 roof nodes as clients. But add more hops to my personal carry node to see the effect. One thing i noticed is how long it takes when attempting to rebroadcast and receive ACK.

[jaunty harness]

it's less time on faster presets, but we need the extra couple dB noisefloor from LongFast vs MediumSlow as during testing we couldn't consistently make connections

[gloomy sun]

sorry, db noisefloor means?

[midnight mural]

I know, part of the joke 🙂

I love living in the pizza belt 🍕🍕

[median gate]

There’s a lot of other RF stuff on the air around here especially in the 33cm ISM band, all kinds of sensors and whatnot. My own building must have a hundred little transmitters in this band. Tire pressure sensors, power meters, smart home zigbee, cordless phones, doorbells. Plus transmissions on other bands that bleed over. At the current node density it’s still hard for the packets to stand out above this background noise. LongFast basically gives the packet a lot of time on the air so it can stand out. Medium* and Short* use much quicker airtimes so they can have a higher data throughput, but the packets don’t stand out as well in a noisy area. https://meshtastic.org/blog/why-your-mesh-should-switch-from-longfast/

[median gate]

An SDR sweep I did recently, you can see the area LongFast Meshtastic traffic in the two columns under the 907 and 908 MHz marks, but also all the other stuff around here in the band. All these blips and blotches are other RF the mesh packets need to overcome (in a particular frequency) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1202833898376138752/1402290471426068580/out.png?ex=689d4385&is=689bf205&hm=b331acd4c39b7b52bec5b3ce16cbc52ff7279fc6a68259f4fa801c27df18772a&

And arguably some (a lot of) mesh traffic itself is noise. Earlier firmware versions were pretty chatty, and anyone who hasn’t updated their node is spewing packets with minimal utility. Hence the frequency test following the preset test. Though even the current firmware defaults are still too noisy imho

[karmic junco]

Waiting as well. Lol

[karmic junco]

Was not aware that med and short was not as effective

[median gate]

They’re plenty effective at closer ranges where the signal is still strong, and the shorter airtime makes for a more responsive mesh. But given the power levels the mesh is operating at, those transmissions easily get lost at longer distances.

I think DEF CON was running short turbo?

Which radio config makes for good mesh performance is entirely dependent on the RF environment and node arrangement. There’s an MT simulator tool that can give you a sense in the abstract, but it really requires practical testing to figure out the best settings

Hence the MS and LF24 experiment…

[jaunty harness]

it was MF -> MS -> LF24. My take is LongFast gives us the connectivity and non-default slot 24 (instead of 20) gave us reliability by removing all the problematic nodes (and everything else) on slot 20

[median gate]

Oh yeah I forgot about MF, that really didn’t work at all

[glossy pine]

The relative reliability of messages sent on 24 >> 20 to date in our tests

[median gate]

I wish more people uplinked to MQTT or at least allowed MQTT, we could probably run an analysis on the meshview database to really quantify it

Actually probably can to some extent with what’s there

[proven grove]

Wish I had a safe spot to actually deploy something worth a few bucks that isn't part of my property. I have more femtofoxes than I can use, but nowhere to park them.

[karmic junco]

You can park one with me, but I'm in such a dead zone it would do nothing

[glossy pine]

Magnet attach em anywhere just beyond reach is for the most part fine, New Yorkers mind their biz

[karmic junco]

I smell shit in the park. Found the flies , found the shit. Not sure itf it's cat shit or coon

Could be people.. but not sure ndont think so

[glossy pine]

Inspirational mesh story

[karmic junco]

One of the best use cases would be putting them up in emergencies to relay information

Without a live person.

During sandy even in urban areas, information was hard to pass around. Going to CNN.com is useless even if you have Internet as the information isn't relevant.

Info like where medical help is, where you can get your prescription (was damn near impossible to do anything at CVS without their network and power)

Or even which supermarket still has resources. Or which gas station has gas.

Especially if you have young kids, single parent, elderly... There is increased risk of leaving the house for potentially redoculously long lines.

Or spending resources to get no resources.

[jaunty harness]

if any of them are smolfoxes.... looks over in Gardeners direction

[cyan pier]

Hey everyone, just got back to my nodes and mesh after dealing with real life. Just to so I'm clear, the public slot is now slot 24?

[daring moth]

For the time being, the section labeled "How to Join the Test" on https://nyme.sh/ can basically be thought of as the "public slot". It also includes a non-default primary channel configuration.

[cyan pier]

Heard! Yeah, I went through the instructions earlier today, just curious if there's more folks there than default LF.

[jaunty harness]

def more "active" people, but that could just be the improved reliabilty we've found during testing

still don't see the same # of nodes as LF20, but for a limited test have been regularly seeing 40-50 active nodes

[proven grove]

Nah, no smalls here, only one tiny (didn't have the patience to build 2 of those wifi hats) and the rest are a mix of pro's and CE's with different radios.

[gloomy sun]

Whose Vernon2 do and what happened to Vernon1? GM

i finally got a direct connect to brooklyn with my rig, but still not getting much chatter.

is everyone quiet or im just not getting the messages yet

LF24?

[median gate]

people just being quiet I think

[median gate]

I think @brazen spear, at an nycmesh.net hub

[jaunty harness]

yeah Vernon2 is one of Gardener's, it's 2 because the first one died - suspicion is something related to nearbye civil (pd/fd, I forget which) repeater

[gloomy sun]

Hope he can message me to see if the connection is solid.

[median gate]

They’re all infrastructure nodes so unattended, not sure how easy it is to message from

I think Catalpa relies on it though judging from the map, so maybe try connecting with them? Would test your mutual connections to Vernon2

[amber edge]

Catalpa is very close to vernon2 and also unattended (it's mine)

[jaunty harness]

yeah the "unmessagable" feature is pretty new and don't think Gardener's enabled on his nodes (especially since it wasn't added to python-cli until after we switched to LF24 test)

[gloomy sun]

Balls! I haven’t been able to connect with anyone.

Either way. I have more nodes on the way.

Setting up 2 solar nodes this weekend so i don’t have the cable loss.

Wondering where i can install one with a high perch to connect better 2 Corona

[gloomy sun]

If the node is set to unmessagble, is it more effective in routing messages?

[jaunty harness]

don't think so, just saves people from expecting a response to a DM that'll never happen - what i need to check is if it affects remote admin which it shouldn't (different protobuf port #) but i haven't actually tried.

[median gate]

All it does is show an extra icon in the list and hide that node from the dm contact options

[gloomy sun]

How much longer is LF24 testing? Indefinite?

[amber edge]

maybe indefinite

[glossy pine]

Pork and I had discussed ending the test and migrating back this Sunday to get a sense of how much of our perceived benefits are real compared to the default vs just being relieved to get off of MS. The community or a portion of it may decide to return or not afterward, but it seems like we have a good sense of the benefits

@jaunty harness what you think

[gloomy sun]

Cool, I was thinking about going back to 20 to see test difference

I like the metrics and organization around LF24 but i got more action on the base

[glossy pine]

Can def do that anytime, will be interesting to see if we do the full migration of all test nodes to see how much of the benefit is all of us being in one setting together

[gloomy sun]

copy that. will report back

[jaunty harness]

@glossy pine i'm down for whatever, maybe poll on other discord where more involved people are to see if consensus wants to stay or move back for few months to better coordinate which I thought was the plan? (i'm so braindead today and have spent way too much of my day in meetings)

[midnight mural]

Peanut Butter Polling Time

[jaunty harness]

with or without a casey jones baseball bat?

[midnight mural]

He has a cricket bat, yes?

[jaunty harness]

from the OG comic I remember he had a baseball bat, a hockey stick and ... i wanna say golf club in his quiver?

hello, I am old https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/1/15317/346571-21094-126659-1-raphael-teenage-muta.jpg

[midnight mural]

I only saw him in the movie 🙁

[glossy pine]

Hell yeah the OG turtles ruled

[cyan pier]

Gotcha! Thank you for the heads up. And heard on all of the above.

I'm seeing more nodes on LF20 than LF24, but that could just be me.

[glossy pine]

There def are more nodes on 20 in general since it’s the default channel most people are directed to start on

The only people on 24 are folks engaged with the test on here and the other discord

[bold jay]

Put my node in a window near Columbus Circle facing south but cant really reach anything compared to my original position surrounded by buildings downtown

[glossy pine]

What time today did you set it up? I was there a little after lunch today

[bold jay]

7ish

[gloomy sun]

Ready to go for deployment. LFG!!!!

[glossy pine]

Ahh dang I just missed testing it, I’ll try next time I’m there. Great spot, but it’s been hit or mess dead zone for a while

[bold jay]

Yeah not many nodes nearby on the map. This one is mobile for now so might now always be here

[gloomy sun]

I have to report that my LF20 node testing was a failure today, I did pick up the node from 74th and roosevelt, and the 2 Astoria nodes. but no ACKs

I did get strong ACKs of 44th and 5th ave

no answer though

Otherwise the night was pretty quiet and im wondering if the nodes need a couple days to settle in on a new frequency so neighbors recognize them.

GN yall!

[jaunty harness]

AMR1 and 2 are unattended so makes sense they didn't reply

[gloomy sun]

My rooftop node is now rocking solar and a 3ft whip up to 10DB antenna. wish me luck on my testing today. Im back on LF24 after yesterdays lack luster performance. Will be in central park area. will stop by Columbus Circle south to take a test run.

[torpid imp]

Testing my jank solar node CrBa w/o a battery today let me know if you see it

[karmic junco]

Lol. What's the name

[misty gorge]

As I always say.. none of this is magic. Either LF24 or LF20, you'll need some other nodes in the area to get far. You may just really need one node to get you out to more nodes.

[gloomy sun]

thanks Zumble, i have direct link to vernon2 but it looks like the signal is not great from what im reading. -19.5 db is bad. 😪

I am deploying 2 more nodes soon to see if I can make it out.

have any of you visited to NYPL for topograraphy archives?

[daring moth]

No. How does it compare to https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/viewer/ ?

[gloomy sun]

the physicality of it. you probably get a expert to help

[misty gorge]

I have a vent and a small silica pack in each one of mine.

[gloomy sun]

smart

where is the vent

[misty gorge]

bottom of the node.

its not just a hole.

hold.

https://a.co/d/hSYNR2M

[gloomy sun]

thats a genius move

wonder who invented those suckers

[misty gorge]

I didn't think of it. but that's what you need.

otherwise, you may not be able to open the box

hhaha

did you already install those solar nodes?

[gloomy sun]

i changed the one with the 30ft cable and made it a solar with a 3ft cable now

[misty gorge]

sweeet

what are you using to pass the cables through the case?

[gloomy sun]

going to test performance today.

used those seal tight gromets that come with enclosure

Used the bottom one

[misty gorge]

for the ALFA node.

[gloomy sun]

waiting for wizblock

[misty gorge]

I'd get silicone tape and wrap the bottom of the connector down to the box.

since its on the top of the box.. that area is gonna take some abuse.

[gloomy sun]

why the humidity goes up?

[misty gorge]

think snow and ice sitting on it.

[gloomy sun]

it did have a rubber gasket that looked good

[misty gorge]

I don't know how necessary it really is.. but I went from the very base of the antenna where it meets the case, up to just past the metal connector where it turns into plastic.

basically protecting that whole area from the elements.

[gloomy sun]

not a bad move since the plastic expands and contracts with the elements

[misty gorge]

You seem active and playing around right now so maybe the node may not stay in it's current config for long and may not matter.

[gloomy sun]

lol, yeah, i rigged the mounting just in case i want to relocate

i was thinking about setting one up on the east side to see if i can reach any of the flushing people.

they could connect me to nassau

or atleast pick up something in forest hills

[misty gorge]

There was a node in forest hills that I used to be able to get kinda reguarly.. I think they said it's on LF24 now.

[gloomy sun]

also a north facing node may pick up college point

[misty gorge]

Maybe if they move back to LF20 the mesh will be "whole" again.

[gloomy sun]

im crossing my fingers.

the LF24 folks got backbone

[misty gorge]

meh.. its all mosly line of sight.. but also radio waves do go through things.

But generally.. if you can see it visually.. you can contact it if a node is there.

[gloomy sun]

more testing!!!

moar nodes!!!!

[misty gorge]

haha.. I'm not sure that's really the answer either.

I think the solution is well placed infrastructure nodes.. and then sprinkled in personal nodes moving around in regular client mode.

I'm not sure this will ever become 100% reliable unless you're really close to an infrastructure node.

I got a message on LF20 the other day that said 7 hops!

so I would probably not be able to reach that person.

[gloomy sun]

infrastructure meaning amplified signal?

[misty gorge]

at least not without increasing my hops

meaning sitting near a high node

[gloomy sun]

i was looking at the map and some folk have wicked networkds

[misty gorge]

oh... sorry if this sounds stupid.. but I want to make sure you understood this.

Your roof nodes need to be on the same channel as the node with you.

your flipping your personal node to LF24 but your roof nodes being on LF20 won't help you.

and vice versa.

[gloomy sun]

yeah, I switched everthing back to LF24.

appriciate that. I need to learn more before i setup 2 frequency's

[misty gorge]

and on LF20 you don't use that nyc mesh channel I think.

that should not affect who you see on your list.. but will change who can talk to.

[gloomy sun]

when i went back, i changed it to blank and was able to pick up the usual suspects

I would like to see all the messaged being recieved on the channel, so i can compare what im getting.

[misty gorge]

the "default" LF20 channel is "LongFast" when you say blank, I'm not sure if thats what it defaults to. the app keeps changing and I really don't keep up.

[gloomy sun]

the title of the channel is LongFast or the setting?

[misty gorge]

between LF20 and LF24? Not sure that's possible with typical hardware.

[misty gorge]

Name of the channel is LongFast

[gloomy sun]

get the F outa hea

lol

[misty gorge]

and the key is "AQ=="

[gloomy sun]

i thought if you left it blank it would default

[misty gorge]

MAYBE that's the case?

but that's not my understanding.

this may be one of those "accepted default" type situations.

[gloomy sun]

also, if you leave the fequency blank it defaults to 20.

i might be wrong about that.

im going to try again soon.

[misty gorge]

oh yea.. I think the APP may create a LongFast channel by default.

but if you erase the channel and make a blank one.. I'm not sure what happens.

[gloomy sun]

thanks again.

[misty gorge]

@jaunty harness are you available to confirm or deny some of this stuff?

or @median gate

[gloomy sun]

im going to get on my bike and start pinging all of yous on LF24.

[misty gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/what-do-you-mean-soldier-wondering-gif-13794012

[gloomy sun]

yo, some dude on LF24 just said they moving back to 20 this weekend. ya herd!

Sunday

[misty gorge]

yea, I think someone mentioned that here.

its like daylight savings.. don't forget to flip your roof nodes back to LF20

[gloomy sun]

lol

[misty gorge]

or you can switch your roof nodes now.. and your personal node (LF20)

then ride around.

then you can see what difference the additional infrastructure nodes make when they merge back in on Sunday.

[median gate]

It’s client platform dependent apparently, but if you leave the primary channel blank and set 0 in the slot it should work as the default “LongFast” and automatically select slot 20

Or just back up keys and factory reset from orbit to be sure

[misty gorge]

Just upgraded my walk around node to 2.6.11 I had done a config export to my phone prior

it saved my keys and looks like most settings, but not channels I had setup.. even though I'm pretty sure I had it set to save them. oh well.

[jaunty harness]

there's the channel_url which is saved in a python-cli --export-config and should reload the channels/lora settings, not sure if android includes that with it's export

[misty gorge]

I had the url saved already and just used that.

yea, I had done the save on an android device.

poor people problems I guess.

[jaunty harness]

LOL you can at least export config, last i checked macOS was just easier ways to backup keys (but I also haven't played with all the cool stuff Jake's been working on adding)

[midnight mural]

This confused me for a long time, and sometimes still gets me

[misty gorge]

Id just go in there and manually set it just in case

[jaunty harness]

adds new channel to his device: zumbleneverrepliestomesoicryinthecorner

also in holster attachs to the doggo's harness, if she was gonna be around longer i'd set it to tracker and rename the node: 2nd Best Doggo (since we already got Best Doggo)

[median gate]

But they’re all the best

[misty gorge]

Oh come on!

Maybe there should be a beacon that's says don't put your node on router mode.

[maiden thistle]

Every Doggo is the Goodest

[jaunty harness]

Haha true but I meant the node name

[jaunty harness]

You’re making me want to stay on LF24 😆

[maiden thistle]

How about Another Goodest Doggo instead of 2nd

[misty gorge]

Just need some more education. I hope.

[ashen venture]

I'm curious how much will bleed into hudson valley once people switch to LF20 again (and if any new nodes will enable 2-way traffic). Pretty doubtful though, and IIRC, forest edge said it crushed their mesh when they got too close to the city.

[jaunty harness]

Well they’re running 7 hops, not really sure what they expected to happen cause that works both ways - packets propagating as far as they possibly can

There’s only one person who runs 7 hops here for remote admin reasons but even on LF24 having issues to some of them so no more excuses, I’ll get on them to drop to 5

(There are others with 7hops but those are part of why we moved off LF20 to test)

[midnight mural]

I’m at 4, my excuse: ManHole 🤣😂🤣

[glossy pine]

We’ve gotten signals from the Hudson valley into the city before when someone was on top of bear mountain with a node

[midnight mural]

Serious talk. If I go to a literal mountain top - am I allowed to put my node in router mode?

Probably no, since it’s temporary, ya?

Would router late be ok?

[jaunty harness]

Depends if there’s existing mesh* cause you could just as easily mess that up as be the super router you intended

[cyan pier]

which nodes are they?

[jaunty harness]

Gardener's so LilyBX/Vernon2/GrandSt/Southslop/Prospect .. though looks like mgoody's also running 7 hops on LF24 8/

[cyan pier]

Gotchu, I got a remote node out there on 2.5.6 I gotta update to 2.7.x so wanted to make sure it wasn't mine.

[midnight mural]

So client and client mute for 🍕🎉

Got it

[jaunty harness]

hah k - on LF24 it's not a big deal since we're essentially a closed/private mesh, but on LF20 yeah it's not great since it can/will reach way further than intended

[midnight mural]

Roger Roger

[median gate]

Getting a weak but consistent connection to Manhattan Relay from my roof. Any info on whose that is?

[gloomy sun]

where are the best places to leave an unatended node

Besides a park

[jaunty harness]

as high as possible

[karmic junco]

So weird I can see this on the echo but nothing on my app

[jaunty harness]

hrmm, might be the thing that's not a thing where app doesn't have !userid in it's db? i forget the details of it

[karmic junco]

God forbid that woulda been a ,"I'm trapped help me" message

[gloomy sun]

i guess that wouldnt fly

[glossy pine]

Don’t worry, even tho it happens it doesn’t exist

[ashen venture]

Sometimes we clear 40 miles in 1 hop outside of the city so in the right conditions, outbound traffic will probably reach out. But usually the replies are too weak to clear the noise floor

[ashen venture]

ROUTER_LATE would be better, but it depends on the local mesh. If you have multiple RLs operating in close proximity then they can collide and degrade long-haul links (at least that seems to be my anecdotal experience)

[proven grove]

Is ce06 here? Didn't get a nodeinfo yet but seeing their messages in LongFast, from my house, in Westchester ... no one's ever been able to hit me here unless they're at the Hibachi place off the Saw Mill, on the saw mill, or on I87 near exit 7... even @ashen venture can only see me when I'm at the train station.

*people on planes don't count

[ashen venture]

Oh weird I see ce06 as well. Claims to be close to LGA. can't trace to it

[proven grove]

IMHO, ROUTER, REPEATER, and ROUTER_LATE shouldn't be available in the off-the-shelf firmware. You should have to either build it yourself (not hard but additional steps so someone can't trivially set it to that) or you should have to apply for it (again, trivial, just an additional step) to be able to download it.

[ashen venture]

Yeah I agree with that. Very few instances where it's a good option

[gloomy sun]

thats me!

im next to Laguardia airport.

[ashen venture]

I read you 2 hops to Cold Spring

but I doubt my replies are getting to you

[jaunty harness]

i have this one in white plains in the nodedb which is past Dobbs Ferry - someday 🤞

[glossy pine]

an enormous failure to name these modes and design the software in a way that conveys to users clearly and easily the respective use cases, and then a lot of moralizing to make up for it

[median gate]

I understand why things got to this point—managing legacy compatibility is hard for any project especially when it involves hardware scattered about the real world—but I hope they’re thinking hard about how to embrace and better support the wide scale mesh usage that has come about. And learn from past and current mesh projects.

[gloomy sun]

i think its just a byproduct of decentralized networks. people do what they want, and that makes it pretty special. I returned my spectacularly placed antenna to CLIENT. It might not be the best for my selfish desires, but it is the best for the Mesh. Cheers everyone.

[midnight mural]

Doing the right thing is always hard. If it was easy, everyone would do it

[median gate]

@twin root @cerulean thorn and other New Jerseyans: ICYMI everyone is back on LF20 defaults. Also there is a New Jersey channel in the nyme.sh discord now!

[gloomy sun]

https://tenor.com/view/the-boys-are-back-in-town-always-sunny-iasip-gif-21737579

The boys are back in town!!

[twin root]

I did miss it, will switch back thank you for the ping

[gloomy sun]

Hey Doc, is this normal?

[bold jay]

I’m seeing a node in Virginia this morning too 😂

[gloomy sun]

your in the water @bold jay! lol. the mesh outter ring is getting wicked IMO... does anyone see nodes in long island? Nassau?

[bold jay]

I noticed the node map was “stacking” the nodes in the Fidi area and kind of hiding them all by the Brooklyn bridge. I changed my radius and it put me there 😂

I don’t see anything out there

[gloomy sun]

I hate that the map stacks nodes!!

good idea!

hey, whats the best thing to do when you discover a new node? hit exhange position? traceroute? or just look in amazement?

[midnight mural]

D) send them a 🎉🍕DM

Whatever makes you happy

[gloomy sun]

who dosent love pizza and confetti

[midnight mural]

A few people, but we still love them 🙂