us - NYC metro

[jaunty harness]

we also seem to have at least somewhat effective communication on the change/ test as someone in town yesterday that msg'd on nyme.sh/LF24 they were in town from Philly

[glossy pine]

We left the default, one must sin

[amber edge]

@vocal cradle we ended our test with MediumSlow last week and concluded it doesn't meet the range needs of our current selection of infra nodes. whenever you have a few spare minutes, we'd love to have HarlemRelay migrated to our latest test, which is using LongFast on a non-default frequency slot (24 instead of 20). you can find more info about how to change to it on the website https://nyme.sh/. thank you so much!

[wet shard]

the new discord?

[daring moth]

#1202833898376138752 message

[sonic prism]

Wow. 7 hops

[amber edge]

@sonic prism most of us are on LongFast 24, not LongFast 20. see https://nyme.sh

[sonic prism]

not seeing any nodes yet on 24 from my vantage point here in Rahway

[daring moth]

Did you follow the rest of the instructions on https://nyme.sh/?

[sonic prism]

Yes. Just made the changes about 15 minutes ago. Gonna monitor to see if I get any nodes

just curious the reason behind this statement " (or 0 if you’re on iOS/macOS though fine to explicitly set 24)"

why would 0 be ok if youre on ios/macOS?

(asking because I'm actively working on the ios app now and wondering if theres a bug or enahancemnet thats needed)

[jaunty harness]

it's because firmware sees it not as a literal "zero" but "compute the slot from hash of channel name, default behavior"

[fervent nebula]

0 changes the slot based on hashing the name and key, setting it to 24 forces it to use that slot no matter the name.

[jaunty harness]

yeah, it's one of the meshtastic cases where 0 isn't "zero" but "firmware default" so think it's fine to just mentally note the behavior vs digging into it, though there's a lot of inconsistencies between ios/macos and android and python-cli apps

[sonic prism]

would be cool if it could be configured per channel, but thats a firmware thing not an app thing

[jaunty harness]

yeah there's also channels that are private which show up on a separate "channel" in MeshSense, but then you end up with multiple slot values which would mean multiple frequencies no?

[sonic prism]

yea

[karmic junco]

Like the panel actually died?

[misty gorge]

Yea doesn't seem to be supplying power anymore. It's still running on battery though

I have a new panel wired up and just need to swap it.

Today may be a good day to do that. Was really too hot to deal with it this past week.

@jaunty harness thinks it's probably the buck converter. Sounds plausible.

[jaunty harness]

yeah thinking is panel should last 10+ years but buck converter outside in the elements??? well there's a reason it's a $15 panel

and yeah, it's glorious out right now and should be decent over the weekend vs 90+ earlier this week

[misty gorge]

This is a good reason to just use a separate buck converter in the box. Then you have more options for a panel also.

I think I'd recommend that route to other people after having this happen.

though the buck going is an assumption.

[jaunty harness]

yeah, buck or just enough grime builtup the buck can't do it's thing but after that storm the other it should have cleaned some of the grime off

[misty gorge]

I went up there and cleaned the dust and poop off the panel.

no joy

I did that before the storm. I was hoping it would be that simple and a good laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0ILMhbWHNQ

2nd attempt going on.

[karmic junco]

So Ive had those li ion panels that were on sale two years ago outside for this amount of time

Still going.

[misty gorge]

Aaaaaaand today they're dead... hehe

I'm hoping it was a fluke. I actually didn't completely seal the box in the back of the original panel. Just around the edges. This time, I put silicone on every seem of the box.

Pretty nice work there, if I do say so myself.

[karmic junco]

So much for "water proof". ol

lol

[karmic junco]

I mean it depends on how much space you have

So the edges around these types of panels dont seem to be sealed well at all

[jaunty harness]

does it look anything like a.li3n's??

[karmic junco]

the outer peremiter is not well sealed. I think a later of silicon can really help out its longevity.

The other thing is a lot of these cheaper panels dont use glass. In direct sun they die from overheating and plastic breakdown

I still think the best option ( that nobody really makes off the shelf) is solar panel and battery that are not in the same housing.

[jaunty harness]

I did silicone around the existing box and then another box ontop with another thinner round of silicon

[karmic junco]

(when I say outer perimeter I mean the edge of the solar panel to the plastic housing. You'd think it was well sealed, but in my units they were not noticibly unsealed until they got wet)

BTW, anyone know if stop signs are magnetic?

[jaunty harness]

it's the "Box-Cover-v1.0.stl" from here

[jaunty harness]

should still be but i haven't tried in a long time

[karmic junco]

or rather ferrerous (iron) based so that I can attach magnetics

I mean I dont see them rusting nowadays, so part of me says... not as much as they used to be

I did a little ahem drone height test to figure out how far I need to go to get out of the tree canopy

apparently I need 132 feet of elevation.

wa wamp

or is it.. womp womp womp

[jaunty harness]

womp womp, wamp wamp (what it do) is a 20 years old song

[karmic junco]

This is what happens when your old. Lol

[misty gorge]

The soshine panel itself still seems to be in good shape. No delamination or degrading of the surface that I can tell.

[jaunty harness]

well that's certainly good to hear, that's 2 years of exposure right?

[misty gorge]

Yup

[karmic junco]

So which part of it broke?

[misty gorge]

I haven't had a chance to replace the panel yet. Today is a busy Friday at work unfortunately.

[glossy pine]

Does the always on feature allow it to feed these low power radios better ?

[misty gorge]

after two years of "testing" with a simple lipo battery pack plugged into the RAK.. I'm going to say the voltaic is not necessary.

I think with a big enough battery on a low drain device on the RAK, the low voltage isn't a huge problem. I'm not sure when my solar panel failed, but the lipo pack has been powering my node for a few days now. Its currently at 68% and 3.87 volts. it can probably go quite a few more days.

[jaunty harness]

AustinMesh LOVES the Voltaic battery packs, and they are a nice solution that can take solar and still output 5V that won't cutoff even for the low-draw of an nRF like some packs do. Plus they're a Brooklyn based business

don't forget the 35-45% charge "cliff", it won't drain linearly at that point

[misty gorge]

I guess those things handle the heat pretty well then?

[glossy pine]

Meaning that if the battery on the node goes below that point it just drops off to nothing?

[jaunty harness]

yeah though they also use that ColdRays film stuff to help with temps

[jaunty harness]

it starts to drain A LOT faster until the 3V cutoff

[misty gorge]

My concern is adding complexity and worrying about all the additional electronics the voltaic has and the heat. but if they are using it in austin, it can likely take the heat.

[jaunty harness]

yeah, and it's definitely not cheap but from almost all accounts it's worth it

[misty gorge]

I just know the simple lipo pack has taken the heat and the cold here.

Can't say a bad thing about it.. I was really skeptical it would live this long.

the volatic was definitely on my radar when I was considering building my nodes.

would have made wiring a bit easier too.

[jaunty harness]

https://yycmesh.com/2025/04/19/cold-weather-charging-of-lithium-ion-batteries-real-world-lessons-from-the-meshtastic-community/

and yeah another plus to voltaic is you can feed DC right off Solar right into the pack, there's also been work to try and get INA-like power readings from the pack but I can't find link for it right now like this

i feel like there's some other page I'm thinking of though... like it was maybe Andy Shinn from Austin had something about it?

[misty gorge]

gonna need to read through this later.

going to the roof to replace the panel now.

[misty gorge]

I was wrong

It's obviously degraded

[jaunty harness]

ahhh, have you checked the usb and dc output? it could still be putting something out

[misty gorge]

I can do that later or tomorrow. I didn't bring a meter up there. Just plugged in new panel to confirm light on rak and got to work.

It's done.

[jaunty harness]

you also updated the firmware too, right? 😄

[misty gorge]

I thought about it... But didn't have it in me to deal with the wipe.

Maybe some time next week.

I'll confirm it's all working again and update it's due.

[jaunty harness]

🤞 2.6.x/2.7.x made a lot of good improvements to reliability of mesh prioritizing messages over telemetry/position but yeah I get waiting to let the panel burn-in / settle a bit to be sure things are good to minimize the trips

[misty gorge]

According to my logs it looks like the panel died on the 9th or 10th

So it's been on battery power for over 2 weeks.

[jaunty harness]

oh WOW, what you have in there, 20k ?!?

[misty gorge]

I think it's a 10k.

RAK is a power sipper.

It's already charged 2% in the cloudy weather.

[misty gorge]

Just read through this.. interesting. My take away.. use large lipo packs. 🙂

[midnight mural]

can you speak up, I do not have my glasses on.

[midnight mural]

is that why they are on Adafruit's site?

[misty gorge]

@midnight mural https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOfI-AkWkiQ

Note about the list though.. Philomenas in Sunnyside actually got second highest score.. but they somehow made a mistake and left it off the list in the last two score slides. just keep that in mind.

[midnight mural]

I love being able to grab a slice and keep walk down the street whenever I'm in the need of a snack when I am out and about....I may have done that twice today already 🙂

[misty gorge]

Damn.. you've definitely had a better day than me then.

[jaunty harness]

there's still plenty of time left in the day to make it a delicious pizza friday!

[misty gorge]

Yea, that may be my dinner.

[jaunty harness]

hehe i usually do 🍕 friday but meeting up with some excoworkers in a bit so unsure what it'll actually be

[misty gorge]

So could still be pizza friday.. watch the video I posted and go to the one closest to your meeting point.

that F&F looks greeeat.

never even heard of it before.

[jaunty harness]

oh heh we're meeting up at bar/pool hall, if don't eat there def gonna go to Two Butts for Dude Slice as been a while

[misty gorge]

Okay... you got me to Google "Two Butts for Dude Pizza"

I feel like I got punked.

[jaunty harness]

Haha Two Boots but I always call it Two Butts

[misty gorge]

Haven't had two butts in a while.

[midnight mural]

TIL

[misty gorge]

At least you didn't Google it.

[misty gorge]

No voltage out of the 6v end either.

[jaunty harness]

dang, welp guess it wasn't the buck but the whole dang thing. still 2 years for sub $20 panel is pretty good

[misty gorge]

just tried to open the box.

it looks like a simple slide mechanism but it would not open.

was trying to science it. but its going in the trash now.

unless I want to whip out my dremel and cut the case

I'm not sure I'm curious enough.

[jaunty harness]

haha yeah I couldn't easily pop myne off either so i felt less worried about siliconing the hell out of it

[misty gorge]

Yea.. i went it it so hard that I feel like whatever I find inside would not be a good scientific finding.

cuz I could have damaged it opening it.

[midnight mural]

so sorry I was fucking up things the last 24 hours.....so glad I have all of my settings straight now (nyme.sh channel name and LF24 set)

[glossy pine]

You’re doin great

[midnight mural]

just out here delivering pizzas to the people

[digital kettle]

Anyone around NYC downtown ?

[daring moth]

Yes, there's a node at 1 WTC.

[daring moth]

Also, I'd recommend visiting https://nyme.sh/ if you haven't already.

[digital kettle]

Are we not using long and fast public anymore meshtastic seems so quiet lately

[digital kettle]

Well looks like longFast public channel is dead I would like to suggest Can we just have 3 public channels 1 for long range outside of cities one for metropolitan cities and 3rd for testing?

[oak ivy]

I think we’re confused as to what that means—explaining who are you considering when saying ‘we’ might be a good start since you’re talking about multiple major metros but in NYC focused spaces?

[digital kettle]

Global regions have cities and remote areas 2 channels needed for dense areas and spread out also 3rd channel for testing or alpha firmware optimization

We can start in USA regions I don't mind

[oak ivy]

‘Testing and alpha firmware optimization’ again leaves me wondering what group you are perceiving as the ‘we.’ I have a hunch that the proposition you’re making covers many scopes that probably aren’t represented here, but again it’s not clear to me what the proposal is and I don’t want to speak on the assumption

[digital kettle]

No worries disregard

[digital kettle]

Anyone using mesh 7704?

[amber edge]

PSA: most NYC discussion moved to the new discord

[misty gorge]

If what's going on in NYC Mesh is so relevant to Meshtastic in NYC, why not discuss it here?

Then it will be very obvious that NYC uses NYC Mesh when people come looking.

Not like this channel is being policed by someone not allowing discussion to happen. Discord is still discord so it's the same chat platform.

[sonic prism]

Lots of meshes have their own separate discords (see burning mesh, etc) but I agree somewhat. I am less likely to see conversation on the other discord than I am here.

[misty gorge]

I think as long as the devices are using meshtastic firmware it makes sense to use the meshtastic discord.

If the issue is not being able to create more channels, maybe that's something that should be brought up to the admins of the meshtastic discord? I don't think causing fragmentation is beneficial.

[digital kettle]

100% also firmware should make channel link to meshtastic discord so we all have one palce and one community to grow and develope not fragment

[glossy pine]

We are there for good reason, thanks for your drive by input

The nyc community is on LongFast Frequency Slot 24

Because LF20 was having interference issues so we’ve been experimenting with alternatives. Get to know us before dropping in to tell us all how to act

[digital kettle]

Just providing feedback from New perspective of a new user

[oak ivy]

You are on publicly-accessible radio bands using an open source protocol and software to communicate over it. ‘Fragmentation’ of community and use cases is a feature and one fairly intrinsic to the project. Many of the NYC folks are on LF24 with a channel name of nyme.sh but there are folks on LF20 LongFast too. Unknowable numbers of folks who use meshtastic even in NYC aren’t involved in this Discord, the other Discord, or possibly any Discord. And that’s quite okay, especially if they’re getting their usecase met.

[median gate]

Exactly this, it's not required to use LF24 in the area, or participate in the other Discord group, but a collective of node operators have decided to coordinate and voluntarily create a shared resource in a mesh network (it's not the mesh, just one of any number possible here). And right now, accessing that shared resource requires using LF24 and is easier to participate in by joining the other Discord.

[misty gorge]

Damn.. why even post here at all if we are going to hang out here to tell people to go somewhere else if the other place is better. It's just an example of fragmentation. Nobody should need to scroll through weeks and get to know anyone to post a valid concern.

Anyway... Regarding the other discord

They have more control of the channels and ability to break down the discussion better

That seems to be a very valid reason to have another discord.

This place is the most obvious place for users to go for NYC stuff and LF20 is the most obvious place to be. That's why people end up there. No need to be mad about it.

Unfortunately because of the fragmentation you're going to have to explain why to people again and again

Just be nice about it and explain.

Be nasty to people in the NYC Mesh discord asking why lf24

[glossy pine]

You’re welcome to talk here, moralizing about your choices won’t convince a single person so spare us

the community will rally to your inspirational snap judgements! Enjoy

[misty gorge]

Im just telling you to not be a dick to people.

That's all. Im not telling anyone which to choose.

Why did I have to give the most logical reason why there is a separate discord?

Go learn about us before you tell us what to do?

Wow.

[oak ivy]

Folks are trying to kindly explain, myself included. Neither this chat nor the other discord represents all meshtastic use in NYC, just the select users who have joined these spaces out of interest. Others have joined and left when it didn’t match their use cases. All of this is ok.
I’m in both chats and I’m mostly on LF20, for example. And if one person bothers you, that’s one person not the entire community.

[misty gorge]

NYC Mesh can be great. Lf24 can be great. But don't be nasty to people.

[oak ivy]

No one is trying to intentionally exclude you, but if you want to join them it is usually best to ask why they do things as they do rather than immediately suggesting solutions that don’t really have much feasibility to them in terms of accomplishing the goals that these communities have already formed around.
I have not in any way been nasty to you, so I actually find that instruction itself nasty considering the good faith I’m trying to show.

[misty gorge]

That's just the thing. These suggestions are happening IN meshtastic and LF20 land.

You should not expect anything different.

This IS LF20 land.

That's why I say be nasty to people about suggesting the meshtastic norm in the NYC Mesh discord

That's fine. But it happening here is pretty weird.

That why I said its cool to have another discord. But here... You're gonna have to explain it again and again.

It's like going to the home field of a rival team and telling people their team sucks. You're IN the official meshtastic discord and the default setting they have always suggested is LF20.

[oak ivy]

This is where folks who are interested in meshtastic as a protocol located geographically in the NYC metro chat about their individual concerns. There is not a leader, there are only individuals who have seen overlap in their goals. That being said, I find your rhetoric disrespectful and incurious so I don’t think I’ll be engaging with you further at this time.

Defaults are defaults, they don’t define best practices all around.

[glossy pine]

Look I love talkin about these nifty radios but nobody signed up to teach social skills, we doing what we’re doing. Be a part of it with us or find your folks, easy peasy.

[misty gorge]

Not sure who I'm being disrespectful to and what in uncurious about. Is it the tech I'm not curious about?

Because how can you know that? That's just a weird projection from you. Like you're trying to be dismissive. Which is fine.

Just be honest about it. Don't accuse me of being uncurious because you don't know me.

[misty gorge]

Im not the guy that told someone to learn the people before talking.

Scroll up. Who do you think they need to learn.

Check who is at the top of the damn page.

Keep scrolling

Up up up

Tell me who you see.

[glossy pine]

Look you’re being first a know it all and then toxic, none of it’s any good for anyone, take a breath, we’ll all come back and keep doing what we’re doing well together. Nobody cares about your outrage. Enjoy the mesh.

[misty gorge]

How far should new people scroll to learn who they are talking to?

To the top or just up to where you showed up?

[digital kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-watching-weekend-vibe-gif-5457118

[misty gorge]

Hey check out the NYC Mesh discord. We switched there because we could break down the discussion better. We are running on LF24 so it's separate from LF20.

Pretty easy.

[misty gorge]

You didn't have any crazy ideas.. just ideas others don't agree with.

[misty gorge]

Maybe you're just uncurious or whatever the slur is.

[digital kettle]

its all good i dont mind 🙂

[misty gorge]

Yea neither do I. Just be nice to people in other people's houses. This is quite literally the meshtastic house. You build your own house. That's fine. Don't be mad when people ask about Meshtastic "norms".

[digital kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/good-but-not-great-fair-average-middle-moderate-gif-15508510

Im never mad just have my popcorn ready 🙂

[misty gorge]

There was a time when we just complained about nodes being on router mode. Now people try to burn you for asking why and questioning. It's fine to question and people should want to answer. Again and again.

[digital kettle]

sorry if anyone got offended lets all mesh it up together!

[misty gorge]

Woe woe. We hardly know each other.

[median gate]

https://meshtastic.org/blog/why-your-mesh-should-switch-from-longfast/

[misty gorge]

Oh I totally get it and support experimenting. It just when people come in here asking why it's met with NO memes and rude comments.

I think I showed up here again after being away for a long time and asked why and nobody really spent the time to tell me nicely.

Like is it such a stupid question in to ask IN the official meshtastic discord

[median gate]

I’m responding specifically to the implication that only LF20 is proper “official meshtastic” or whatever, if it were intended to only use that radio configuration then others wouldn’t be possible

[misty gorge]

To suggest not fragmenting? I don't think it's crazy.

[misty gorge]

Sure it can be changed but the assumption that most people make based off all the tutorials on the Internet say Lf20

So when people come in here asking why.. you're gonna just need to nicely explain again and again. It's just the fact of the situation.

[oak ivy]

I do not believe you are trying to contribute to a positive environment because you are focusing on how you’ve been mistreated rather than engaging with and trying to understand the answers you’ve received from people who have not been rude. Instead you perceive everyone who isn’t you to be a singular entity, as if all of us must answer for the behavior of one. No one has asked for you to be burnt or tried to exclude you. Despite disagreement you’ve been welcomed in all spaces that exist, even if you think it a rude welcome. That is the behavior that I believe to be indicative of a lack of curiosity, I’m not intending to simply use some word stand in for a slur when I want to critique your conduct. That being said, I’m still exhausted after exercising patience in engaging with you and feeling I am receiving none in return. To be very clear, have a good time here but I’ve said what I have to say in this specific discussion.

[median gate]

Well Greg just said the default was dead and started throwing nonsensical suggestions around without reading the docs helpfully linked for them right before so, maybe that made some people salty

[misty gorge]

Okay when did I make this about me?

Please show me. I really think you're projecting at this point.

[misty gorge]

Also again. Why do I need to be welcomed here? Scroll up. I'm not saying I own the place at all. But please don't tell me I'm new.

Or need to be welcomed here.

That's silly.

[median gate]

There’s plenty of recognition of the issue around newcomers and being off-defaults, ongoing discussion of leaving LF20 nodes running to advertise the alternate frequency, and so on. It’s also a very recent change, as is the new discord (like weeks old) so the group is collectively figuring it all out still

[misty gorge]

Understood totally. Growing pains happen.

[median gate]

This also isn’t the only area struggling with it. Bay mesh has the same ongoing discussions and even proposed firmware features to help advertise local conventions

[misty gorge]

But my issue is being dismissive of people that are asking about what should be accepted as what the norm was.

I'm even saying norm WAS. I'm not some weird cultist fanboi. I'm just saying expect people to question it and just be nice about it.

[median gate]

Again, reread the scroll back plus the same user’s comments in the other discord and you might see why some folks bristled a bit

[oak ivy]

I’ve been clear that I’m done talking to you especially about this. Every time someone inhabits a place they are given some form of welcome. You’re critiquing my verb choice and making assumptions that I’m trying to insult you when I’m trying to be as clear as possible without doing so. Don’t expect any form of response if you @ me again.

[misty gorge]

Links if you would be so kind? Only if you can easily find it. Im open to being educated. But also cool with dropping it. I think I said my peace already.

[misty gorge]

Yet you respond. I don't mind. But I want to remind you of the fact that you're responding to me despite the fact that I'm whatever you accuse me of.

[misty gorge]

Okay I think I see what you mean. I can't make heads or tails of what Greg was saying back there. Just feed him some canned NYC Mesh info again. Pretty sure Greg smoked a flat blunt when he suggested all that. Sorry @digital kettle

[digital kettle]

all good

this was great activity finaly

to bad it was not on mesh we would miss half msgs

[misty gorge]

Get to know everyone first next time okay?

[digital kettle]

https://tenor.com/view/awesome-grandma-dancing-viral-hog-cool-gif-11232948562057547980

[misty gorge]

LF24 is supposed to fix all that. Try it.

[digital kettle]

so I hear lol

[ashen venture]

Someone was given a temporary on the main discord for some feedback about the ios app or something. the admins here are a bit special.

bumping this

[ashen venture]

Did that proposal get any traction? garth seemed really opposed to my suggestion that etiquette is important in shared spaces. Seems like social norms is antithetical to the "no rules, spam away" perspective being fostered in general.

[misty gorge]

Yea I was given the DL on that. It's unfortunate.

[cyan drum]

drama 🙄

[karmic junco]

Wtf is this drama

[misty gorge]

I think it started with me basically asking "why" and it all went downhill from there.

[karmic junco]

Seems counter intuitive.

We've always gotten along In here, this is a new dynamic

[misty gorge]

Pretty much..hey.. why.. we should stay here.. (which makes sense to say.. being here) and getting told I'm being negative.

haha

Whatever.. I'm over it.

[karmic junco]

Well that was the fragmentation we discussed at the get go

[misty gorge]

I may try LF24 cuz.. I'm not actually uncurious.. or incurious.. whatever I was being accused of.

[karmic junco]

People are free to do whatever but the disjointed conversations weren't as enjoyable to me

I stated my bit. I enjoy seeing random project everyone works on. It keeps me curious

[misty gorge]

As I also stated, a separate discord makes sense to me. Being able to create sub channels etc.

[karmic junco]

Now even with the seperated discord, I find it tedious to go through them. It's becoming more like usenet than irc

And I love irc. It feels more personal.

[misty gorge]

It's not gonna get better. Because we have people in here telling people everyone is on the other discord and on LF24

[misty gorge]

"/me hits PX with a trout"

[karmic junco]

Hahaha. Oh the good old days

I don't mind. I do know that the mesh falls apart when we're separate. Everyone is important if we're trying to build a community mesh

[misty gorge]

Yeah.. I think the LF24 thing could have been done here.

[karmic junco]

It could have, for sure.

[misty gorge]

and anyone coming in to the meshstasic discord and organically finding the NYC metro would be able to read all about it.

and keep up

[karmic junco]

But they are also spearheading the testing, and that's also intriguing.

I'm still in a dead zone so unless the mesh is strong I ain't seeing crap

[misty gorge]

Because I'm an extremely even and fair person, despite being accused of not being so....

Though I can see advantages to a separate discord.

[karmic junco]

Your reasonable.

[misty gorge]

I know from personal experience.. there are people that like creating separate groups for errr.. personal reasons.. like they like owning things kinda.

I don't know enough to know which it is.. it can be both.

Sometimes things are not black and white.

[karmic junco]

Look at it this way; how many kids do exactly the things the parents tell them not to, only to realize 40 years later they are telling their own kids the same thing.

[misty gorge]

This is a really good analogy.

[karmic junco]

Kinda like we know communism is bad... But yet this younger generation seems to lust after it

It took how many deaths to realize that freedom was worth fighting for, only to give it all back...

[misty gorge]

I think they want socialism and higher minimum wage.. which makes no sense.. higher minimum wage creates inflation.

[karmic junco]

You and I know that. People don't seem to realize that minimum wage Defines the bottom

You can keep raising the bottom, but it's still the bottom.

[misty gorge]

and if the bottom is raised, the top wants to be raised.

I don't have a problem with socialism.. or more of it.. basically.. no.. I want my tax dollars to work for the people.. that's not too much to ask. haha.

But the minimum wage thing is stupid.

[karmic junco]

Bottom is bottom, always will be, no matter what numerical designation you give it. The only people your hurting are people who cannot adjust to the numerical change; that would be the seniors who cannot work anymore

[misty gorge]

There are people who just don't understand what happens further down the road for these instant gratification things like higher minimum wage.

[karmic junco]

This is why it's better to control inflation by not adjusting wages. Then a dollar buys what you would buy 10 years ago

Young people can't afford houses because they keep in inflating.

Because a dollar saved is 50 cents earned.

[daring moth]

I wonder if the lack of interpersonal social interactions on Discord was a factor in how heated the discussion became. If we were discussing it in person, for example at a Meshtastic meetup, I wonder if it would've been any different.

[misty gorge]

I mean.. its possible.... but why "lower the bar". We should be able to do this online.

[karmic junco]

Some people did not grow up with personable skills.

Or personal hygiene.

[misty gorge]

Like I'm being nice and repsectful to you @daring moth .. I've never met @karmic junco and we've always been cool.

PX made a polticical comment which I didn't quite agree with.. I inserted what I thought was correct.. he didn't jump on me.. we both went.. Hmmmmm... went on our way.

[karmic junco]

Like I mentioned before, I have no limits , and never banned anyone. For the mesh to work and get to where we are, the personal connection was how we got there.

Differences make us think about things. Respect that there is a difference of opinion and beliefs. And tastefully, try and prove each other wrong.

[misty gorge]

eat pizza, mess with mesh devices, laugh. I actually don't even care if it doesn't work perfect..

it was fun just chatting about pizza and discussing the stuff.

[karmic junco]

You want to say your cost hanger works better than my Alibaba antenna? Go for it

Don't believe in eating pork? What if I engineer it with hooves instead of trotters?

[misty gorge]

Not sure why.. but that made me think of slices of hotdogs on pizza.

[karmic junco]

Oh ya. That's some good stuff. Gotta get the ones strong in garlic flavor. Cut it round so it cups

And that side comment makes this so much fun.

Strict enforcement would say "let's move this to off topic,*

Or "let's move this to general"

[misty gorge]

yeah, that's not fun.

In another discord I mod we have a random channel which is absolutely the most popular and fun channel.

[karmic junco]

Those are usually the channel with 99 percent activity.

I think both channels are great, because there are great people in both. I just have a preference for chitchatting.

[misty gorge]

Now that "NYC is on LF24" I won't be able to walk out of the train station and try to ping @proven grove on those blue moon days when I go into the office.

Might be worth switchign to LF24 just for that.

[karmic junco]

I have some on lf24 and some on default. It hasn't made much of a difference to me.

[misty gorge]

yea, people can do and will do what they want. Your example with the kids illustrates that.

[karmic junco]

The problem always has to do with , why are we even doing meshtasric

[misty gorge]

So to me.. it's just changing the channel.

[daring moth]

Or carrying around multiple nodes.

[karmic junco]

The use case scenario is critical

[misty gorge]

no technical difference. If you see an "improvement" it could very well be due to less devices.. which would be a problem again once more people are on it.

so it's premature to go around telling people NYC is on LF24 etc etc

Like go test all you want.

[karmic junco]

Did they decide to keep lf24?

And then there is the "roaming" aapect

[misty gorge]

Some people are saying its the thing.. and they seem to attack people that ask about LF20..sooooo.

hive mentality.

[karmic junco]

Like being on lf24 is not an issue, but anyone who roams into NYC is toast.

And anyone who may be flying in that could have relayed messages is also toast

Again, if your use case didn't depend on others to route for you, this doesn't matter.

[misty gorge]

And I don't like this. Everyone has their own reasons for doing this. I think of it as emergency comms.. maybe some people want to build a private chat network.

in the context of emergency comms, the move off of LF20 is bad.

[karmic junco]

The private chat network routing was of high importance for me.

[daring moth]

I think there was a discussion about moving back to LF20 for several months, then announcing a permanent move sometime later, but I think the discussion fizzled out. 🤷

[misty gorge]

And that's cool.. so I guess whatever NYC Mesh does you should stick with.

[karmic junco]

And I think you and I were of the emergency comm aspect

Where as I think some were more of the "not the internet" comm philosophy

[misty gorge]

It saddens me.. that there could be someone that visits NY with a meshtastic device.. that could be in trouble and they die cuz LF24... I know its extreme.. but that's what I think about.

[karmic junco]

Then the next progression becomes "bug in" or "bug out"

[proven grove]

I'm out of the loop, what settings should I be using?

[misty gorge]

DUDE.. don't even ask.. keep your head down!

[karmic junco]

Default, but with Lora set to ch 24

That's the beta channel for now

[misty gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/rogue-one-star-wars-bodhi-rook-running-running-away-gif-22931205

[daring moth]

And channel name set to nyme.sh

[proven grove]

I was just thinking about this in a much less morbid context: What if someones visiting NYC, and sends a PING on the default channel... NYC will appear to be a dead zone... or that we're elitist and decided to use a non-standard channel that someone can't intuitively figure out without going to nyme.sh...

[misty gorge]

more realistic. haha

[daring moth]

Details are in the "How to Join the Test" section of https://nyme.sh/

[karmic junco]

Or if someone comes and uses meshtastic as a ways of finding their family members traveling. Now they are routing only with themselves and can't benefit from shared routing.

And we all know that is like less than 2 blocks sometimes in Manhattan.

[proven grove]

i didnt' even think about us removing infra from visitors...

[karmic junco]

I always like to think in context of use case scenarios.

[misty gorge]

This was my point.. but got flamed for it.

[karmic junco]

Let's say we volunteer to go do humanitarian aid during the hurricane Katrina.

We don't know each other. We just know there is resources coming from around the country.

And there is no cellular or internet.

All trational infrastructure has been damaged or unreliable.

How do we coordinate?

[misty gorge]

I made the point that we (they) are moving the infrastructure away from the default and established norm.. I was met with.. its only default and can be changed.

That kind of disconnect tells me people have different goals.

which is fine.

[karmic junco]

Do we rely on the govt? We saw how tenesee was managed. A crusty ham guy in a shack? Maybe...

I mean shoot, they are useful for sure.

But we can't really hit the ground running b

Trying to find what channel configs are for Louisiana

[misty gorge]

The real problem is more likely the actual meshastic communication protocol for routing and packet delivery.

[karmic junco]

Maybe they have Cajun Pizza dude down there who set high towers on LF 21

[misty gorge]

is that like.. pizza with shrimp?

[proven grove]

pizza with crawfish

[karmic junco]

Sounds tasty. Can it be fried first?

[misty gorge]

fried crawfish AND shrimp!!!

[proven grove]

don't forget the gator!

[karmic junco]

Oh ya!

[misty gorge]

nah... have you ever had gator?

[karmic junco]

I had gator jerky. Tastes like chicken with a hint of seafood

[misty gorge]

I think the meat is too firm for pizza.

but fried crawfish and shimp sound damn good.

[proven grove]

i had fried gator bites, similar taste to what you described.

[karmic junco]

No you cook it shred it and deep fry it so it becomes crispy gator floss

[misty gorge]

okay.. I can get on board with that.

I've had it as fried chunks.

[karmic junco]

No .. fries chunks makes it harder to eat

[misty gorge]

Yea that's why I initially said no.. But I'm on board now.

[proven grove]

LF24 -> How to cook gator

[misty gorge]

I feel like I've been missing out on this gator floss.

[misty gorge]

how to cook gator > LF24

[karmic junco]

Floss is basically any meat that has been dried, deep fried and shredded. Chinese have what is known as pork floss and fish floss

[proven grove]

I just meant the transition, not the actual value of the convo haha

[misty gorge]

Right.. but I need to try it now. haha

[karmic junco]

Ain't easy to find gator meat in nyc

[proven grove]

Just look in the sewer

[karmic junco]

There's a couple specialty meat stores but gator is rare

[proven grove]

heard theres turtles down there too that like pizza

[misty gorge]

I went to a place in Westchester that had it.

[karmic junco]

You see this lake poplin hilltop

[proven grove]

what? where?

[misty gorge]

Hold.. I'll get info.

[karmic junco]

I just got a routed message off default long fast. Lake popolopen is west of bear mountain

[misty gorge]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ub9aNxTVCuvrNenB7

[karmic junco]

An appropriate name.....

[misty gorge]

yea, I forgot the name of the place and had to find a pic and look at the location.. I zoomed in and was like.. OF COURSE it's named that.

[misty gorge]

that's pretty cool. I wonder if someone has a node on one of those peaks.

And you're even further east than I am @karmic junco

[karmic junco]

I think this reinforces our opinion, that people are still set mostly to 20... Everywhere else.

[misty gorge]

There are too many youtube videos and instructions on websites that reinforce it.

With that said.. it doesn't mean LF20 isn't congested

But we drive on congested roads all the time.

[median gate]

Just want to throw in my thoughts and why I'm supportive of trying non-default frequency: picking a quieter frequency that is free of congestion caused by poorly placed/configured nodes that are uncooperative allows for building a more effective mesh resource, and the discoverability off the default is a problem that can be solved, even during a crisis scenario. Thinking about my experiences during Sandy, it didn't take long for people to find the communication methods that worked, bootstrapped by in-person conversations and intermittent phone/text/radio.

speaking of congested roads, you ever see what happens in an evacuation scenario? it's chaos when everyone tries to use the main highways

[karmic junco]

Been there. At least for NYC

[misty gorge]

We could put more work into getting the poorly configured nodes corrected

[karmic junco]

Celluar was back up in most places though mobile satellite

[misty gorge]

I guess I own one of them. But LF24 will have the same problem eventually.

[median gate]

verizon was up for me because they brought generators over, t-mobile never bothered so it took a week

the vz tech was very generous and let everyone plug in to charge their stuff

[karmic junco]

Were you in far rock or south shore?

[misty gorge]

that's nice of him. It's not like it's out of his pocket.

[median gate]

hoboken at the time

[karmic junco]

Ahh.

[median gate]

surrounded by water for a couple of days, fun!

[karmic junco]

TMO was slowest to get a mobile truck

But it's tmo

You paid less you got kess

[misty gorge]

now in a situation like sandy.

[karmic junco]

People had issues with charging.

[misty gorge]

would there be more, less or same channel interference?

[karmic junco]

So.. it is of my educated guess that the interference is nothing to do with meshtastic traffic

[misty gorge]

I think I agree with that.

[karmic junco]

Just happens to be noise from other crap

[misty gorge]

so if much of the city loses power or something, the noise floor probably drops.

[median gate]

presumably

[karmic junco]

So that depends .

There is that meshtastic alt native.

Alternative

[misty gorge]

Don't you say that dirty R word....

[karmic junco]

Same hardware. Same channels.

[misty gorge]

oh.. the H word? haha

[karmic junco]

Hahhhaha

[median gate]

Meshcxxx has kind of the opposite problem, the nodes are silent by default so keeps congestion down, but makes for miserable discoverability

[karmic junco]

Not saying that have any users in the space, but. I dunno

[median gate]

supposedly there are some nodes around here but I haven't seen any over RF yet

[karmic junco]

Does anyone have a sdr?

[misty gorge]

I have one.

[median gate]

yes

[karmic junco]

What does the channel sound like?

Like with no squelch

[misty gorge]

I actually haven't tuned in.

also probably only valid on a roof or something.

[karmic junco]

Like I'm expecting modemy sound b

But that's perfect. I am just curious wtf is on the frequency.

[misty gorge]

probably sounds like sadness.. like NYPD frequencies.........

[karmic junco]

If your hearing modemy sounds but no utilization on the device...

[karmic junco]

Those are dead. For now.. they went digital and encrypted for most things.

[misty gorge]

That's why I say it sounds like sadness.

I just hear P25 on many of the frequencies now.

just digital wooshing.

maybe I'll do a science project. I need to update the SDR software on my laptop anyway.

would be interesting to visually see what LF20 and LF24 look like.

[median gate]

kind of like aprs but usually much shorter

[misty gorge]

I'm sure someone has probably done that already!??

[misty gorge]

makes sense.

[median gate]

less harsh maybe, I think because it's spread?

[misty gorge]

yea, that's why the visual is probably better than listening for something.

[median gate]

I played with rtl_power a bit the other day connected to the roof node's antenna, need to set up a proper test

[misty gorge]

Which frequency range is that?

Oh I see it.

what range is LF24 and what range is LF20?

[median gate]

can clearly see 20 and 24, though I didn't think to try recording packets simultaneously to see how much is mesh traffic vs other

20 is just under 907, 24 is almost 908

[misty gorge]

looks like 920 is where its actually clear.

[median gate]

the rtl sdr bandwidth kind of colors the data, need to figure out a way around that

[misty gorge]

I've found most of the software kind of frustrating to use.

[median gate]

this was last week so hard to say how clear 908 would be without all the nodes on the LF24 test

[misty gorge]

There is definitely a lot more going on in 907

But unclear if that's actually a problem. But it's a piece of data.

like network switches can be super busy.. but it doesn't mean packets are being dropped.

but we have no error correction.. sooo..

@karmic junco have you been to F&F pizza?

[median gate]

Anecdotally LF24 has performed a lot better for me and others, but it wasn’t a systematic test in that the node composition wasn’t static and there has been a minor wave of new folks

[karmic junco]

I have not nwent to Grimaldi's yesterday bjulianaas was too packed

[karmic junco]

It's ok if it's Meshtastic busy

Because that means the mesh is active

[median gate]

Also I have a Lora band pass on order, not sure where it’s gotten to

yes and no, if it’s busy but nothing is getting through as expected, then it’s a problem

[misty gorge]

Would be cool if LF24 works better with more nodes around etc.. But then gotta weigh if a "private" network is better, or default setting "public".

[misty gorge]

is there one with ipex and SMA connectors?

[karmic junco]

I see like almost nothing here

.19%

[median gate]

I think the goal should be a high performing resilient mesh on whatever setting is needed, and then provide discoverability options if outside the box defaults

[karmic junco]

Well 3.0 should fix a lot of that

As an early adopter I have sx chips which can't talk to my t1000

[misty gorge]

I'd like to do the bandpass filter thing, but the units I saw are SMA on both ends. I'd need to redo the antenna setup on my nodes.

[karmic junco]

And I can imagine that there is a lot of areas and users disjointed by that very important sequence of events.

[median gate]

Maybe, only have seen SMA or N for sale, probably wouldn’t be too hard to solder an ipex instead

Yeah true, poor Harlem relay is stuck on MS still

But this is part of the experiment, learning how to coordinate as an informal group, and that itself is a valuable bit in a crisis scenario

[karmic junco]

All the early simtec tbeams are basically not able to talk to all the t+1000

[misty gorge]

if the bandpass filter is really really beneficial.. maybe that should be standard practice. I'd just need to rebuild my nodes with them from scratch.

[jaunty harness]

COUGHCOUGH

[misty gorge]

I need two ipex ends.

[jaunty harness]

can do ipex/ipex or sma/sma or ipex/sma or sma/ipex, because i made it flexible

[misty gorge]

cuz stupid me has N to ipex in both my nodes.

[misty gorge]

Ohhhhh I see what you have there.

[jaunty harness]

haha even if you had existing sma-ipex pigtail still need ipex

[misty gorge]

these are the ones you're making?

yea my nodes have a N to ipex mounted in on the box.

so ipex to ipex would make it plug and play for me.

[jaunty harness]

yeah, I finally got in the last filters to test last night, the mystery one is disappointing but the other is alright

yeah like ipex/ipex you can just drop into place

[misty gorge]

alright but as good as the "real" ones?

[jaunty harness]

is it as good as a $100+ AirFrames Cavity Filter? no, but it's also not extremely tightly tuned to 906.876MHz because it has more bandwidth, also costs 1/5

[misty gorge]

is it as good as that 30 dollar filter you linked me?

[jaunty harness]

the gpio labs? i still need to measure insertion loss but the minicircuits SYBP-92+ filter i'm using is also good up to 7W whereas GPIO Labs is like 25-28dB max (but what you lose in max power is more than made up for in cleaner signal, if you're in a spot around a lot of other RF)

the gpio labs basically doubled what I was hearing on the 1W window node, but the ebyte 1W/2W radios have some RX sensitivity issues in heavy RF envs, and I have a cell site 1/4 block away, my own 2.4-6GHz bt/wifi and see a bunch of 433MHz stuff from power meters and like tire pressure sensors

[misty gorge]

yeah the GPIO labs.

[jaunty harness]

but it got me down the rabbit hole of band pass filters since it's pretty easy PCB and there's certainly cheaper options out there if youre doing DIY

[misty gorge]

cuz what if thats the solution for noise on LF20.. then you just gotta deal with the nodes set wrong.

maybe all the high stationary nodes just need bandpass filters.

[jaunty harness]

yeah I don't think it's not the singular magic solution, but it's certainly part of the overall solution

[misty gorge]

yeah..

[jaunty harness]

the original vernon died and got swapped to vernon2 and part of gardener's theory is there's a civil (pd/fd) repeater on a nearbye roof - even if it didn't actually kill the node its definitely not helping

cause that's the other thing - once you're up high on those roofs and have LoS... you still have everyone else RF stuf that's also up on roof tops to contend with

[misty gorge]

yeah, I can see that.. even more need for a bandpass

[daring moth]

Yep, the double-edged sword of being on unlicensed spectrum.

[jaunty harness]

Hrmm well it’s ZWave or Zigbee that’s also squating* near LF20 (and 24) bit the civil repeaters and cell sites are licensed - it’s ALL the RF that got moved up high to rooftops

[karmic junco]

I have a lot of zwave and zigbee and it certainly doesn't register much on my ch util

That said I get helium packets just dandy

[misty gorge]

Soooo meshtastic protocol just blows.

[karmic junco]

Different helium doesn't care about anything other than sending some packets

Though in my very limited playing with it, it was actually able to receive OTA configurations.

And it doesn't mesh. It's looking for base stations only

[misty gorge]

ah got it.

[karmic junco]

It's still lorawan tech

But arguably much more appealing to have it for vehicle and person tracking.

But on the helium network vs the things network

TTN is horrible. It's like Meshtastic days 5

Can't see crap because there was no viable incentive to keep a network running.

Helium was a pay/crypto thing. I never did it for the money only for the credits to keep my own units transmitting.

[misty gorge]

people build hilium nodes like meshtastic? or buy established standard hardware?

[jaunty harness]

what I recall from when i looked at it couple years ago was a couple hundred bucks for commercial hw, or you could build your own but it couldn't mine? some weird cavaet like that

[celest brook]

Idk if this includes meshtastic but could be useful https://github.com/merbanan/rtl_433

[jaunty harness]

(it's fun to run and see all the random IoT things using it, like smart meters and tire pressure gauges as cars pass by)

[celest brook]

Do you know if it recognizes meshtastic or lora?

[jaunty harness]

I haven't tried it with 900MHz, i might just be some generic "LoRa" detection but not actually sure it'd recognize the chirps

[celest brook]

my current understanding is that any lora traffic (meshtastic or not) will increase the channel util measure, but noise or non-lora-modulated rf will not

https://www.silive.com/news/2023/11/heres-how-special-sensors-along-nyc-streets-are-monitoring-flood-events-across-the-5-boroughs.html

https://github.com/Community-Sensor-Lab/floodsense_sensor

like this should tick channel util up for example. idk what freq they use

oh i guess we can see where the nodes are even https://dataviz.floodnet.nyc/

[median gate]

I’ve used that before to try and read my power and water meters, I think some of them are just about on top of LF24 IIRC (it doesn't support lora though)

[karmic junco]

Those are lorawan deployed on tnn

[karmic junco]

I've seen and found some nodes but the data is wildly off

[celest brook]

what's tnn

[jaunty harness]

think he meant ttn ~ The Things Network

[jaunty harness]

huh actually seems like TTN isn't close to meshtastic, seems like 125kbps channels uplink on 903.9-904.6, 500kbps downlink using 923.3-927.5 (taken from here)

[karmic junco]

The things network

[karmic junco]

Q: when they measure the ch util, does it include other bit rates? In other words is LF usage reported on MF ch util if given the same Lora channel

[median gate]

I think so based on previous presentations, which states they include all lora packets decoded on the frequency, not just MT but anything lora

[shy saffron]

Pretty cool

[jaunty harness]

heh we were talking about the flood sensor network couple months ago - I took a nice walk over to try and checkout the one closest to me on their map but didn't actually find anything at the location

[celest brook]

at least not LF20 or LF24-- but meshtastic frequency slots range the entire 915 ISM band from 902-928mhz

[jaunty harness]

yeah, but also even the "default" slots (aside from LONG_MODERATE/SLOT 6) shouldn't be in that range... slot 11 ~ 904.625 / slot 86 ~ 923.375. SHORT_FAST I think is the highest in and that's 66?68? something like that

someone shared a google doc that listed other projects that also use 915MHz ISM band (lost original link, but made copy of the ss to my drive for ref) and it was really only Z-Wave that came close to overlap up to 915MHz

ahh in the other discord (thanks to Haqer) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PSVXRpBVFUluurIeNa3h_W1GqqR3R9HZGLpzZcd9bPA/edit?usp=drivesdk

[fast spruce]

[ashen venture]

I think you're assuming an intent that isn't there and could definitely be perceived as hostile to others.

I live north of the city and have no skin in the game but it seems like LF24 has been a lot more successful for people and actually was discussed here. The primary trigger to move was when an active member was muted for a week by an admin because of some arbitrary disagreement over the app (I don't know the details personally).

The pivot, as I understand, occurred because it is hard to track all NYC stuff in a single channel and a perception that community built here is at risk of being squashed because of arbitrary (undocumented) feelings of admins.

[misty gorge]

I think I was very careful with saying it's a possibility?

[ashen venture]

This also feels like you're saying people moved to the other discord because they lack interpersonal skills (and/or hygiene)? [I know you're on both...just saying, in context it seems that way]

[misty gorge]

Im just stating what I've seen many times before. May not be the case here. That's fine.

But it's not a bad thing to point out possible facts.

Being able to take information and just process and accept it and not get offended is an interpersonal skill

[ashen venture]

There's talk of putting some default nodes in LF20 around that beacon the non-standard configs.

[ashen venture]

I don't think anyone was flamed?

[ashen venture]

Oh hey, that's me!

[misty gorge]

I asked why for a few things and I'm pretty sure I was called a few things.

And accused of making this about me...

All I want is no fragmentation and a mesh that's as public as possible and serves as many people as possible.

And it's not even for me. I work from home most days now. If shit goes down. Im getting in my car and leaving the city.

Laters

[ashen venture]

yeah I agree. But also everyone has fixed bandwidth and limited emotional energy. We live in a chaotic world so I think it's worth it to just move on amicably without negatively characterizing the nyme.sh server. I think overall it's cool to just be chill about it

Sorry I made the mistake of commenting in the chat log as I read it and didn't realize just how much scrollback there was

[misty gorge]

Yea which is why I even said I understand why it exists.

And if someone has limited bandwidth. Then don't answer

Better than being rude.

[ashen venture]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[misty gorge]

I understand you're trying to smooth things out.

[amber edge]

@misty gorge maybe take a step back and realize that multiple independent people have called you out on your communication and you continue to deny that it's an issue. tbh i'm glad you're not in the other discord

[ashen venture]

Did that message from Bull Hill (Popolopen, not Cold Spring) reach down to the city?

[ashen venture]

Don't you think that's a bit harsh?

[misty gorge]

That's what started this all really

[ashen venture]

People sometimes disagree and text is never a good medium for disagreements.

[misty gorge]

Like it's rooted in his comments really.

[ashen venture]

And sometimes people don't get along, but I don't think that's a reason to try to push people out of a community

[misty gorge]

Agreed. That's why a softer response initially is the right move.

[ashen venture]

At any rate, sorry I saw after replying that everyone had moved on. I did not intend to bring it back up

[amber edge]

i stand by what i said. i like that the complainers are sticking here

[misty gorge]

But yea I'm not gonna let people make dumb accusations about me and try to create a false narrative.

[misty gorge]

Great

[ashen venture]

/shrug welp I'm going to go back to playing with my radios

[misty gorge]

What do we need to know about that message that you sent earlier that PX got?

[ashen venture]

I did not see the reply from PX unfortunately. But that is located in the Highland Mills area at around 1400ft

[misty gorge]

Im not sure he tried to reply.

Ah figured there was a bit of height involved

I just looked at a map. That's quite the trip.

[ashen venture]

Looks like he replied this morning in that screenshot but I didn't get it

[misty gorge]

Is that where you are located?

So you could attempt it again at some point?

[ashen venture]

sorry was catching up in some other servers. I live nearby, not at that exact spot. Traffic to/from the city is very sporadic. For a while I would get traffic from SI via the "Northeast Router"/NERO but it was always 1-way. I'd guess they have a high-wattage node on a tower there

[misty gorge]

Does the node up there have one of those bandpass filters? Not sure how much noise is a problem at that elevation but so far from NYC.

[ashen venture]

No it's just a harbor breeze build with a 5dBi antenna

It will be interesting to see how they hold up over the winter

[karmic junco]

Not here I censored novody

[ashen venture]

Right but you're not a server admin.

There seemed to be an implication of ill-intent by the effort to move to a new server and I just don't think that's fair or accurate, that's all.

[karmic junco]

That's taken way out of context. You don't smell or take turns speaking online. It ain't token ring.

[ashen venture]

I think actually in the context of people moving to other servers, it could seem to be what you're implying.

I am not trying to say you did say this. Or to point fingers. I just wanted to highlight how people might interpret it.

[karmic junco]

Not I'll intent.. i never implied as such, just that moving off leaves fragmentation. You expect certain things in certain places.

[ashen venture]

But I was trying to smooth things over and I think Corey didn't want to smooth things over so I guess it is what it is

[karmic junco]

I was here for the beginning xonvo, and still part of the other server.

But people expect toilet paper near the toilet not in the shower.

So they come here first.

Because this is part of the main meshtastic server.

It's semi NYC centric .

@ben: when did you send that msg?

[misty gorge]

which is why I thought it made sense to try to make things work here. And I pointed out LN20 offers the most universal compatibility.

Both I think are more fact than opinion.

[ashen venture]

Which one, from the hilltop? That was yesterday (4 august) in the morning

[karmic junco]

Somehow I got it at around 6 this morning

[ashen venture]

Ah did you get disconnected from your radio?

sometimes my bluetooth disconnects and that happens to me

or the app gets shut down by the os

[misty gorge]

same happens with android.

[ashen venture]

yeah I have android and that happens to me

[misty gorge]

so the reply would never have gotten to you anyway. haha

[ashen venture]

The radio still receives it. You just don't see it on your device until you reconnect

(unless it's a standalone with its own screen and keyboard, of course)

[misty gorge]

right but if he replied today and you werent' around to get it today.

are you currently in contact with that node?

[karmic junco]

I have one of those but I wasn't looking at it

[karmic junco]

Nope can't trace it

[ashen venture]

My handheld (Ben) is out of range. You may be able to hit the popolopen lake node though

[karmic junco]

@ben that node was used as my example that many folks still have the default lf

Nah. I'm way south.

[ashen venture]

Ah gotcha

[karmic junco]

And without Harlem relay and the rest... There's no way I'm getting it

[ashen venture]

Well I guess my radio east of Harriman may not be a good anecdote haha

for LF20

[karmic junco]

Well it was... Because it didn't require any coordination.

[misty gorge]

that's the beauty.

[karmic junco]

Kinda like we assume everyone speaks english

Not that you can't speak Spanish, just that the rest of America is speaking English.

[misty gorge]

but latin is better.

[ashen venture]

I don't agree the analogy holds for meshtastic, nor do I agree my comms bleeding into the city are particularly relevant for the LF24 test, but that's okay.

[misty gorge]

he means if the unit wasnt on LF20 then he wouldn't have heard it while being on the default channel.

It's an organic contact and organic meshing.

Just like it would be great it everyone just spoke english in america.

[karmic junco]

As far as testing go, it has no relevance. Bleeding in means mesh is working. But it's more that without lf20 we can't hear you

[misty gorge]

doesn't mean you can't speak other languages.. but everyone being on the same language would make things better.

[karmic junco]

There has to be some reason why the creators chose 20

[misty gorge]

That i don't believe.. haha.

[karmic junco]

And I hope it isn't as simple as " well that's the beginning"

[misty gorge]

They could have just chose it and it became the norm.. like we could have just as well be speaking spanish here.

[karmic junco]

Wtf why not call it 1

[misty gorge]

I know why it's not 9

[karmic junco]

Or dona frequency test and. Say hey.. this frequency is used a lot, we should make the default xxx

Like how every wifi was set with channel 6

[misty gorge]

I'd like to think there was testing done... but I would also believe they just picked one cuz it didn't matter that much.

[karmic junco]

Was good until there were 50 in one block

[karmic junco]

And now here we are, trying lf24

[misty gorge]

Just less people for now.

bandaid.

If you keep LF24 obscure enough it will be great.

[karmic junco]

Ok assuming every person on me.sh switched off... And all of pizzas 20 nodes... How much "traffic " was actually diverted?

[misty gorge]

No idea.

[karmic junco]

In theory a 5 day avg before and after gives you a rough idea of ch util

[misty gorge]

Some dude was on LF20 in midtown and the 7 train earlier today

I happily said hello to him..

[karmic junco]

He's might be wondering why it's so quiet. Lol

[misty gorge]

dumb smuck doesn't know about LF24.

[karmic junco]

A dual node would be the solution to this problem.

[misty gorge]

would be cool if one device can do two.

[karmic junco]

Not certain what the limits are, I thought that femtofox was potentially an option.

[misty gorge]

So many cool devices, but most guys are buying whatever youtubers tell them to.

and there is nothing wrong with that. It would be great if meshtastic worked really well on cheap hardware.

[karmic junco]

If they fix the issue all the old hardware comes back online

There are literally full towns of old hardware that those new devices can't talk to

Or so I read on reddit

[tender pine]

My 0.02 is that I got on LF24 very quickly after I got my meshtastic device, literally within minutes—it was not too hard to figure out that people were on a non-default config/finding the nymesh discord. I think that people who end up getting into meshtastic also generally are able to figure out the situation re: LF24 in NYC if they’re able to go through flashing etc.

[misty gorge]

Yea def not hard to do.

You just gotta be in the know.

[tender pine]

I think most people who find meshtastic probably are going to quickly get “in the know” though

it’s still very niche at the end of the day

[misty gorge]

A beacon would be nice.

[tender pine]

And aren’t a lot of the other city meshes on non default? I forget which ones it is but out of like LV/SEA/SF meshes I think at least one is non default

[misty gorge]

But also unsure if Lf24 will have the same issue as LF20 once you have more devices on it.

[tender pine]

I mean if it does then it does I guess

never know till you try

[misty gorge]

Absolutely true. But if the answers are unknown

Why attack other people who question the unknown?

That starts to look more like religion than science.

[tender pine]

is that pro- or anti- LF24 though

cause that argument cuts both ways

[misty gorge]

Hmm if you're talking about me specifically. I don't think I was ever anti

Im just not pro

But when people attack you for not being pro.. especially when they are testing... It's not science and it's not truth.

It's religion and faith.

Lots of reasonable people here don't care either way and do both.

Absolutely sane scientific and reasonable people.

I also understand some people are just the way they are and I'm fine with that just don't be nasty to others.

That's my 2 cents.

[ashen venture]

you're literally here mocking the LF24 effort making jokes. This channel has become fairly aggressive towards the LF24 effort over the last 48 hours.

Now you're saying it's "religion and faith."

Some introspection may be helpful. Why do you feel the need to characterize it this way? it's obviously not a religion, it's a community test because of well-documented issues with the defaults that have been explained to you. It seems like you're now engaging in bad faith

[ashen venture]

Don't you think someone might reasonably characterize you being "nasty to others" here?

[tender pine]

the devotion to lf20 seems like religion lol

[misty gorge]

No it's just the default setting

[misty gorge]

I joke yes. Jokes are jokes. I also say it's valid again and again. And go ahead and test. Why did you not read those?

Interesting

So picking and choosing? Are you aware you're doing that?

Honest question

[ashen venture]

I did read those. I just don't think you can have it both ways. You can't claim to be neutral while also continue to mock and antagonize the test. It's fine for you to stay on LF20 and it's fine for people to try out LF24.

I get that Corey specifically engaged aggressively. But I don't think it's reasonable to let that be a justification to turn this channel into a place to shit on the entire LF24 effort.

[misty gorge]

Only people who attack other people should be offended.

I don't like negativity. But letting people abuse others and spread theory as fact is not good either.

Again this pretty much started with me asking questions after being away and Corey being nasty

Which he exhibited again earlier today.

My stance was always that LF20 is default and we should try to keep discussions here instead of another discord

Such crazy ideas!

[ashen venture]

It's hard to not conclude from this chunk of messages that you think people trying LF24 are not reasonable, not sane, and that the LF24 is akin to "religion and faith."

Which is a bit different from how you've reframed it now.

[misty gorge]

Again attacking people who question lf24. I don't oppose it

You should be allowed to question.....

Agreed?

[amber edge]

for context this is the my previous "nastiness" #1202833898376138752 message

[ashen venture]

Oh I thought it was more aggressive than that

¯_(ツ)_/¯

oh well

[amber edge]

nope

zumble's zealotry for lf20 predated me. he's just using me as a scapegoat

[misty gorge]

Keep reading after that

I questioned and he decided to tell me he didn't have patience for me.

[tender pine]

lf24 seems fine. that’s what ppl are probably gonna move to I feel

feels like a critical mass of people on there

[misty gorge]

As I keep saying that's totally cool with me.

[tender pine]

swag

[misty gorge]

Which is funny cuz people keep saying I love LF20. Again it's the previously established default. I didn't establish it.

Stating facts a problem now? Haha

PX seems to think God chose LF20

But you'll see I disagree

[ashen venture]

I think we're probably fine to just move on

[misty gorge]

So yea. I don't care. Just keep stating it's the default people expect.

[dapper jewel]

As a relative newcomer to this hobby and discord I will say that I do wish there was more discussion of the tradeoffs between alternate and default frequencies - but this is obviously not a productive discussion

[ashen venture]

https://hvmesh.net/ is live for anyone who takes the train north. Will work on a map of known nodes. Most don't have location on

I need to work on a proper social card so the preview doesn't look like garbage

[misty gorge]

LN24 is probably less populated now? LN20 is what people have been using in most places. They are essentially same frequency band and have same properties.. same messaging protocol.

[ashen venture]

I think some folks are trying to do a survey to check this over time with SDRs.

[misty gorge]

And when I say less populated I mean it probably works better cuz less noise.

Damn who was that LF20 zealot that said that.

A bunch of people have moved their nodes to LF24 so you may currently get better coverage on LF24.

But also keep in mind lots of people are learning about Meshtastic and will end up in LF20 (the accepted default).

[dapper jewel]

The question I have is, is the coverage loss from old nodes really counterbalanced by the "congestion" benefits of LF24? I know very little about this space so I have low certainty in anything I'm saying, but it seems like you can fix congestion with software, but you can't fix coverage with software.

[dapper jewel]

Who has accepted this default? What makes a default "accepted", what is an example of an "unaccepted" default?

[tender pine]

idk how many nodes are still on lf20 but from meshview it looks like most traffic is on lf24 now

or at least most messages, et cetera

[misty gorge]

It's what all the tutorials say basically.

[dapper jewel]

Presumably this is always going to be the case, because active users are going to send the most messages, but the zombie nodes are still useful relays, right?

[misty gorge]

Yes absolutely.

[tender pine]

fair but idk how many zombie nodes there are i guess/have a feeling they don’t outnumber the active ones on lf24

[ashen venture]

The issue isn't congestion, it's abandoned outdated nodes on bad configs. An abandoned ROUTER can ruin the mesh.

[dapper jewel]

It's not really about outnumbering, it's about, I think, and I could be very wrong, the probability of forwarding a message from any point to any other point - this is what my naive idea of "coverage" is

[misty gorge]

Yea but what happens if or when that happens in LF24?

[tender pine]

we explode their lora device with our minds.

[dapper jewel]

Is this something that can be fixed in firmware? For example, could we all configure our nodes to ignore ROUTER? I am a noob and have no idea what the answer is, so I apologize if this is a dumb question.

[misty gorge]

Why are we not currently doing his on LF20?

[tender pine]

why does god stay in heaven

[ashen venture]

A nice artifact of LF24 is that people have to be tagged into the community to find the info to get the info. And the "best practices" are communicated along with the configuration. So unless someone is being actively malicious, it's less likely for someone to mess it up unintentionally

[dapper jewel]

As odious as this particular user happens to be this is a good point and I think worth having a response to - maybe the answer is "switch frequencies every so often" but then don't we just bleed "coverage" over time?

[misty gorge]

God is a dark skinned woman. .. she loves gardening

[tender pine]

I mean why don’t ppl just not set up their thing as a router

[dapper jewel]

This works for ROUTER or whatever, but sooner or later there is going to be a best-intentioned misconfiguration, and most of the nodes will move on, but someone who set up a node and forgot about it will not, and the problem will happen again

[tender pine]

wdym

[ashen venture]

I think yes you can ignore nodes, but everyone would have to ignore that specific node. They event talked about building lists of nodes to block, but ultimately that won't really work because everyone needs to install the list. so LF24 gets around that because instead of manually blocking nodeid via CLI, you just change 1-2 settings and are online

[dapper jewel]

I mean that the people configuring their nodes as ROUTER were not being malicious, they were attempting to be good-standing members of the mesh community, and at some point, someone will make some OTHER configuration, which they will do with the best of intentions, and then they will leave that node parked there, and then the community will realize that is a bad configuration, and we'll have to move frequencies again, or find another way to deal with it

[misty gorge]

Security via obscurity

[tender pine]

This is the rationale used by SF Mesh too i think (?)

[ashen venture]

short of setting ROUTER or REPEATER, I think the risk of an abandoned node in LF24 is minimal.

[dapper jewel]

The problem with ROUTER is that the messages are afforded some priority, right? If this is not useful, why do that? I don't fully understand the ROUTER thing.

[tender pine]

It’s for like infra nodes on mountains

[ashen venture]

When you join LF24 you also see the message with the configs to say, "don't use ROUTER or REPEATER"

[dapper jewel]

What prevents nodes on LF24 from being misconfigured? In the full space of configuration that can happen over time

[tender pine]

https://meshtastic.org/blog/choosing-the-right-device-role/

[ashen venture]

Even then, CLIENT can often work just as well. (anecedotally, working with 3 different meshes that are finally merging and now ROUTERs are impacting local routing)

[tender pine]

Ideally people who do LF24 have also read the bare minimum info about Meshtastic like “don’t make things router”

[glossy pine]

It’s a test of alternatives to see how they change the user experience. All of this was debated at length, not to conclusion or dogma, just far enough to help us pick the next experiment. We tried MF and MS, both with high recommendations from other cities’ communities. Both were big loss of reach and mesh scale, so we left them after a while. The next option was to go back to LF, but on alt frequencies to see how it changed the experience. Some people experienced loss of connectivity, especially people who were dependent on nodes that aren’t active in the community. Some switched back immediately, others persisted and found ways to get in. Others had immensely more connectivity, and so far have benefited a lot. If a theoretical bad thing did happen or router did pop up of course the community could rally to switch again. But, that hasn’t happened, and there are other problems to think about too.

[misty gorge]

Lf20 people should do the same.

[tender pine]

Oh interesting, ty

[ashen venture]

It's a radio hobby there is no security. Nothing protects the mesh from badfaith actors. If that's your threat model, you might as well not even try.

[dapper jewel]

I have read this but this doesn't explain the "cutting in line" thing in enough technical detail for me to understand why this obvious footgun is not just cut out of the firmware and ignored?

[misty gorge]

But I'm just saying there is no real solution to the problem in LF20 or 24. Let's not pretend there is.

It's the same.

[stable hinge]

@misty gorge Time to tone it down. You've made your opinion heard, others can disagree just like you can.

[misty gorge]

I think this is still a valid discussion? We are discussing differences between Lf20 and 24.

I'm not combatting with anyone

[glossy pine]

There are use cases not in large urban areas where having nodes that serve as automatic routers is a valuable role

It’s just not great for this scenario. It’s cool tho too, its forced us to think and experiment for months

And currently we’re getting great experimental success and thinking about how to make it easier and more accessible without losing the benefits we’ve been able to uncover

[dapper jewel]

Would this be a better configuration to offer rather than LF24?

[tender pine]

what does router have to do with lf24

I’m lost

[glossy pine]

Device roles and frequency slots are different aspects of the process, and what I said there isn’t an alternative to the frequency slots

[stable hinge]

Unfortunately, that's not how it's coming across. So, please, let's tone it down and have a good discussion.

[jaunty harness]

I’ve messaged oopso and Brooklyn solar node a few times, never responded once

[misty gorge]

I'm cool with that. I'll tone it down with the jokes.

[dapper jewel]

Like is there an "urban mode" you could have that would be a better configuration-based fix to the ROUTER problem than LF24

[tender pine]

you could open a suggestion in github

[misty gorge]

Wait I thought mentality blowing up their nodes as @tender pine suggested can just be done without permission.

[jaunty harness]

oh i've been tempted to fox hunt them down, but that's a little extreme

[dapper jewel]

I might if it seems like a good idea! But I have literally no idea what I'm talking about so I humbly submit it now for everyone's configuration

[tender pine]

lf24 doesn’t inherently solve that problem

lf24 has nothing to do with device roles

[glossy pine]

That sounds theoretically great, doesn’t exist yet though. If you go make it we’ll all cheer. In the mean time the frequency slot change has been the most effective way to neutralize that particular hangup

[jaunty harness]

there was actually a proposal to some sort of automated ignore for bad infra roles

[misty gorge]

There some nice kits for that. Hunting low power spread spectrum doesn't seem easy.

[tender pine]

ah dang

[misty gorge]

If you want to play around with these guys that are really into testing LF24. Use lf24 and set your device to client.

[dapper jewel]

I have been actually

[jaunty harness]

but i have also advocated, along with leaving LF20 beacons, to agree if we do make permanent switch to mass ignore anyone who decides to use an infra role and remains uncommunicative, because that's the only other viable option I'm aware of

[tender pine]

Is Hudson valley on LF20 or 24

[misty gorge]

Just remember when you go somewhere else. Probably switch back to LF20

Traveling.. probably LF20

Want to mess around on a plane, probably LF20.

[jaunty harness]

haha, easiest way to piss off 50% of the people who hear your CLIENT and amuse the other 50%

[misty gorge]

On a boat partying with tpain.. probably lf20

[tender pine]

being on a plane?

seems really interesting i can see both sides of the argument

i think it would be cool to bounce off a plane though

[dapper jewel]

For the click-stingy - I guess the problem is not so easily solvable

[jaunty harness]

yeah people fly over and end up causing mesh havoc

[tender pine]

that’s actually why i was curious if HV was on 24 or 20

[ashen venture]

I'm pretty new into the RF hobby space but DF'ing meshtastic radios seems like it would be a lot of fun. Set up like 5-6 nodes in a 1 click grid, give a mac, and ask someone to find the device.

[tender pine]

ppl say client mute is a good solution iirc

but then u don’t get the fun long range hops for ppl on ground i guess

[ashen venture]

I spent some time researching and it seems like the biggest limiting factor is having a precise enough clock so you can properly triangulate

[jaunty harness]

yeah, CLIENT_MUTE is the least obxnoxious way to do it, but it is ... somewhat like a move off default slot, a topic different people have different opinions on

[tender pine]

I’m gonna get my private pilots license and fly around with a node set to router

on LF20 of course

[jaunty harness]

arms the roof mounted SAM site

[ashen venture]

I think infrastructure beaconing and personal devices on CLIENT_MUTE helps keep the node notifications down

oops didn't mean to reply to you lacuna

i was going to note to your comment that you can still get long range hops in client mode

[misty gorge]

It would be nice if the software had a good way to just deal with the "bad actors". But maybe it's not realistic because of the decentralized nature.

[ashen venture]

Yeah I'm more interested to learn about DF and less about hunting routers.

If you can get 3-4 radios all with GPS lock and can read clock (technically the signal) from the GPS module, it should be feasible to DF with only a few packets

[misty gorge]

Kraken?

[ashen venture]

yeah but that's expensive

[misty gorge]

Also unsure if it would work for this.

[jaunty harness]

well oopso in particular at some point got "cute" and decided to add gps location in Red Hook, NY (aka upstate) so they're likely in Red Hook Brooklyn

[tender pine]

why do they do this

like what’s the point

is it malicious or just total blissful not caring

[jaunty harness]

not sure actual motivation but comes off kinda trolly

[tender pine]

surprised they haven’t moved to lf24 lol

[misty gorge]

Maybe honest mistake?

[jaunty harness]

it's probably the same reason they're running ROUTER_CLIENT "I want to help!" (but i don't want to RTFM about why I shouldn't)

[misty gorge]

Didn't know there was a Redhook somewhere else?

[jaunty harness]

just north of kingston/rhineback

[misty gorge]

Did a random Google search for the GPS coordinates and just pasted.

[misty gorge]

Nice area.

[tender pine]

that’s kinda funny ngl

[jaunty harness]

i'd honestly not have a problem with them if they hadn't gone up in mid 2.5.x fw times with pre 2.5.x fw (which would also make their ROUTER_CLIENT cosmetic and not actual preempt all the better placed CLIENTs)

[misty gorge]

Maybe it's the government...

[jaunty harness]

heh, no you're thinking of the node named Palantir that was in SI 😉

[misty gorge]

Seriously?

[tender pine]

Someone should put a node in the Brooklyn tower

And call it Sauron

[jaunty harness]

yeah, not sure what happened to it/still around but there was one couple months ago

[misty gorge]

The one on top of Brooklyn Tech? We've dreamt about that.

[jaunty harness]

🦒 was the one on 100th flr of 1WTC (until it died, R.I.P.)

[tender pine]

the brown supertall residential

[tender pine]

wonder how it got there

[jaunty harness]

dkTower is on the 85th flr of 1WTC (and like 🦒 also running CLIENT)

[misty gorge]

Ohhhh. Hmmmm. Is that taller than the Brooklyn Tech tower?

[tender pine]

probably

[jaunty harness]

someone had a friend who worked there, it only lasted like a month or so

[tender pine]

dang

[misty gorge]

Do we know how it died?

Did it actually fail or someone unplugged or threw it away?

[jaunty harness]

not sure feeb every had a definitive answer, and with it being defcon -> burning man season he's quite busy

oh no, it failed - could have been RF, could have been something with the... LiFePo4 I think it was battery? just don't know

dkTower is facing North on 85th flr and Alec K2XAP mentioned wanting to get one on 25th flr, which would be south facing so very excited to see how those two nodes can work together (🦒was also south / south west facing)

could be they cancel each other, could be their deaf to each other, but very interesting test

[tender pine]

It would be cool if someone could get one in One Vanderbilt or 10 HY maybe

[jaunty harness]

just need it to get cold again so Gardener has free time to add nodes on the NYCMesh roof tops (like Electchester) 😄

[ashen venture]

I'd be surprised if most LF messages in most major cities aren't in the databases of many organizations. Probably private orgs, but also probably with the intent to sell to governments.

[misty gorge]

True... Small messages. Easy to store.

[ashen venture]

Also why I don't like to enable mqtt on my nodes. Someone can still collect but at least without mqtt they have to actually have something local to do so

[jaunty harness]

hrmm, don't think DMs would end up on MQTT even if the other person had it activated vs a private "channel" / shared PSK where only need one person to uplink

and yeah, it's definitely possible to record the RF and then spend infinite resources trying to break the encryption. it's not practical AT ALL, but it's certain possible

[ashen venture]

Yeah true, mqtt doesn't but it still will forward public and nodeinfo (and public keys). and anyone with a radio can still capture DMs and store them.

Or there's a weakness in the crypto and the keys aren't secure, or you get physical access to one device and decrypt all comms sent to it, etc.

I assume all traffic is public and intercepted, but I still don't want to make it easier for that to be the case. (but I'm a bit of a privacy nerd)

[jaunty harness]

or say, a vendor mass flashes devices with same keys at the factory, which has happened 😄

and 100% - privacy shouldn't be stigmatized vs normalized

[misty gorge]

But the key for the LF channel messages have a known key

I think that's what Ben was referring to

The private stuff over the air. Sure. Save that too. But the LF channel stuff is easy pickings.

[ashen venture]

I was referring to both, but definitely the null key traffic.

[jaunty harness]

definitely! just even for the "private" part when I'm trying to explain meshtastic to someone it's more a best-effort promise than any real guarantee

that said would love for someone way more cryptographically savvy to really dig in and share findings, only way to move things forward

[ashen venture]

If someone lived in an authoritarian country, they might think meshtastic is a useful platform that avoids surveillance of the state. But private channels have preshared keys so compromise of one device compromises the whole chain. And there's no forward secrecy so stored messages can be recovered if you are able to access the keys. (and that's easy over serial)

This is all stuff meshtastic is very transparent about, but I've seen people on fedi suggest meshtastic for protests or whatever and I think that's a trap

(not that the people are trying to trick others, just that the mindset is a false sense of security)

[jaunty harness]

it's probably better than say your personal cellphone, but also yeah a false sense of security

hahah exactly

[misty gorge]

its probably better than nothing for "off grid" texting.. but if you're planning shit with it.. that's probably not wise.

[ashen venture]

yeah definitely useful for dead zones and emergency comms. There are still lots of places in NY where you hit cellphone dead spots

and just a lot of fun as a hobby

[misty gorge]

I have not experienced this really.. unless inside a structure. inside restaurants etc.. sure.. but on streets.. its rare for me..

[ashen venture]

Sorry I mean state, not city

[misty gorge]

makes way more sense!

HAHA.. sorry for assuming!

HAHHA

[ashen venture]

Like some spots even on palisades parkway between the city and bear mountain. Once you hit the mountains you get dead spots all over.

[misty gorge]

oh yea.. i don't touch my gps once I enter the bear mountain area.

don't try to change any routes etc.

[ashen venture]

Someday there will be a mesh node on that hilltop. 🤞

[misty gorge]

they should just install proper cell towers!

[ashen venture]

It's gotten a lot better over the years.

[misty gorge]

is the terrain really that challening? just light up that one big main road that goes to the round about

There is probably some weird politics or something that prevents it from happening.. not a technical issue.

[ashen venture]

It's like a 30 second stretch of road on palisades that drops off. And then sometimes between Storm King and Crows Nest it drops. Once you get up towards the adirondacks it goes dead again. I think sometimes it drops in 7 lakes area

It's not really politics, just cost/benefit.

[misty gorge]

I'm just talking about hwy 6 that goes to the palisades

so many cars go through there.

You'd think there would be a benefit.

further north.. yea.. I can understand why there would be a cost benefit problem.

I don't think I get cell service back until I hit the palisades.

[ashen venture]

Random question - I made a mental note to circle back to coolfilm when I had some time. Do you know where to buy this stuff? I can only find their main website. Looks really interesting.

[median gate]

Most of that is along a low valley in the middle of the state park right? Hard to stand up cell towers that reliably cover it, for several reasons. But solar mesh nodes…

[misty gorge]

Yea it's a valley, but we have cell service under water now. Can't be impossible.

[jaunty harness]

ColdRays™ is the specific brand that AustinMesh uses. I've heard you can get enclosures pre-treated with it or a roll of film and apply yourself

[karmic junco]

To be fair, I have one on lf24 and one on LF20. I just want it to work

[karmic junco]

It technically.. is in the bible (FAQ)

[karmic junco]

THats one of the odd things of starlink. You can ltierally drop starlink>>cellular gateways. Virtually no additional infrastrucutre needed, and way cheaper than microwaves.

[misty gorge]

I guess nobody lives there so its just people passing through.. maybe there is no reason to spend money to do anything there.

[karmic junco]

Until your car breaks down right... there... and.. no signall

honestly, its a weird thing, your car blocks out so much signal

[jaunty harness]

as does the giant sack of water that is the human body 😄

[wet shard]

I know someone who was involved in that and can make a connection if interested. I was surprised to find their name after following a working link to the project

[wet shard]

How so? I keep seeing messages about 3.0 fixing a lot of things but don’t know where to find specifics

[jaunty harness]

it's come up a couple times, can probably search for sync word , there's also a video somewhere from Jonathan Bennett fessing up it's all his fault 😄

[jaunty harness]

nice! i was just curious to see the hw for myself and if my node had any reach from the location (it didn't seem to)

[median gate]

So I did a client mute test for a couple days, just to see what it could hear. Intriguing results. Can’t hear dkTower directly (as expected) but picked up a surprising number of messages directly despite only being on FL 20.

[jaunty harness]

OOOOOO very interesting! Sounds like it's time to see what happens with CLIENT 😄

[median gate]

tbh it was client mute only because I forgot to switch it before handing it over yesterday morning

[jaunty harness]

HAHA it happens (as I understand that's why Olmsted isn't online)

[karmic junco]

Someone remind me. Client only means it never repeats?

[daring moth]

No, CLIENT_MUTE does that. CLIENT is described here: https://meshtastic.org/docs/overview/mesh-algo/#broadcasts-using-managed-flooding

[karmic junco]

Oh I see. I thought this was default though

It just means it takes the same route as it did before

[daring moth]

CLIENT is the default role.

[karmic junco]

Morning b

[karmic junco]

so quiet this week

[jaunty harness]

SWAMPED with work and helping with a foster pup that's got separation anxiety but has been big chilling with me while neighbors at work

[rare sparrow]

Doggo!

[karmic junco]

aww, thats sweet of you

[jaunty harness]

yeah, she's been a delight to dogsit - just chilling while i'm working at computer and illiciting nothing but smiles when we go on walks. happy it's worked out so well for everyone

[midnight mural]

Gonna be blasting on LF20 across NYS in a few, FOOT - Transport Module, will be on Client Mute, 🍕🎉packet blasting 😎

[gloomy sun]

i agree, this line bullshit is getting out of hand. Im jaime by the way.

[misty gorge]

It works for them. The line makes tourists think it's the best thing ever which causes a bigger line. Good for Joes.. but def not the best pizza available in NYC.

[gloomy sun]

So im a couple weeks into meshtastic, its consuming my life. I saw all your guys post from 2024 and feel like i missed the boat.

[gloomy sun]

the audacity!

Im in Corona Queens, setup a node on the roof but now picking up anyone. noticed there some nodes in astoria, but I get nothing from Jackson heights or Flushing.

[misty gorge]

Could be that they are on LF24. Lots of people moved over to LF24 off the (somehow debatable) default of LF20.

[gloomy sun]

im not familiar

wondering if we get community back

[misty gorge]

Under your LORA settings, you just pick channel slot 24 instead of 20.

[gloomy sun]

have you tried it with any of your nodes

[misty gorge]

then use whatever the NYC mesh channel and key is.

[misty gorge]

Nope..I was going to, but I have lots of other stuff going on.

[gloomy sun]

there is a NYC key?

[misty gorge]

every channel has a key.

[gloomy sun]

im on the base

[misty gorge]

I'm not sure what they are doing over there.. but there is probably documentation.

[gloomy sun]

where can i find it?

[misty gorge]

As discussed, just be aware the LF24 thing may (probably will be) the wrong setting when you travel out of NYC.

Not that LF24 is the "right" setting in NYC.

[gloomy sun]

gotcha

just set to 24 and see if it populates

[misty gorge]

Using 24 will get you access to the nodes that are on that channel to move your packets around on their network.

But if you want to chat with people in the general channel.. you'll need to find the settings for that.

[median gate]

Hi! Check out https://nyme.sh for info on the frequency test

[gloomy sun]

appriciate you.

[misty gorge]

There you have it.

[median gate]

There also is a variety of regional discord groups you might be interested in, listed on that page

[median gate]

Note that it takes time to discover nodes since most only announce every few hours. There are quite a few nodes around still on the default frequency (I run one on each), and people have been connecting with nodes down near Philly. My LF20 map this morning:

A helpful site is https://meshview.nyme.sh/map that has a smallish sampling of the nodes in the area

[gloomy sun]

i did get some action while on the 7 train on default, but I would like to build on the larger network.

Im having fun testing as well. Im over the MQTT stuff. I like the bubbles on the map, but it defeats the purpose IMO.