us - NYC metro

[jaunty harness]

possibly yes, possible no - it could be same repeater, or two different sufficiently older firmware (pre 2.4ish) node

[midnight mural]

I turned it all back on. Fuck it

[abstract iron]

https://meshtastic.org/blog/why-your-mesh-should-switch-from-longfast/

[rare sparrow]

For Meshtastic 3.0, we are considering a new default preset that is more suitable for increasingly popular larger networks, but this is still in the works.

[abstract iron]

oh sorry this was posted above

[rare sparrow]

hmmmm

[daring moth]

Well, as an Instagram post. You linked to the source.

[jaunty harness]

More than 60 nodes, especially if they are in relatively close proximity``` took 14hrs to max out nRF's nodeDB - earlier today I was seeing 43 active nodes

[normal osprey]

They basically described my use case… which is music festivals so high density, close proximity.

[jaunty harness]

we don't really care about the distance loss as much as the blog explains: reduced airtime usage (and saying byebye old firmware)

[midnight mural]

Was the 2.6.6 FW a joke? I only see unstable 2.5.5

[rare sparrow]

You need the special code 😎

[midnight mural]

I read through the preset article, it says between the lines: move off long fast

Is the special code, pizza? 🤣

[rare sparrow]

Hint: Konami

[normal osprey]

It still has its use cases. Hiking in the mountains upstate with 3 nodes this past weekend… long fast was perfect!

[jaunty harness]

then mediumfast would likely have worked even better 😄

[normal osprey]

i wanted the extra range in case of emergency

[midnight mural]

I’m ready to try some channel change shit out. I can’t wait to take nodes upstate myself.

If we did change to something else, would we be able to convince people up north that got connected via Bear Mtn to do the same, or would they just start put?

[jaunty harness]

yeah it'll still go >100miles even on shortfast

[midnight mural]

Cool

[normal osprey]

that’s good to know. i like to be prepared so i left a T-Echo in the car with InkHUD displaying any new messages i send… just in case.

[midnight mural]

Oh that’s a great idea for the screen 🤯

[jaunty harness]

nice! yeah there's nothing wrong with LF in the woods, just it's not needed (so like a default fw change wouldn't largely diminish how it works in that setting)

[midnight mural]

@jaunty harness you should def be someone to figure out what to do next. I know you know who here is doing what, so maybe you get some key peeps together and we test something.

[jaunty harness]

heh you greatly overestimate my amount of free time 8p

i'm def down to help out when and however i can but don't really have bandwidth to give it full attention it needs

[midnight mural]

I was more meaning like: you, you and you, let’s test a few days. Or whatever

That’s fair

[jaunty harness]

well we were waiting for nice weather to test faster preset and now it’s here so we just need to figure out a general time window like 2-4hrs or something and see how it goes. If you read the blog post where SF and NZ share their experiences they call out having infra nodes available to switch over so it’s not just clients - i.e. maybe we try and work around gardeners availability to remote admin since he’s got the placements

[normal osprey]

should switch to a higher bandwidth radio preset then obviously 😂

[jaunty harness]

I will say I have put a device on medium* fast for 24hrs, sent out 2 or 3 “what up medfast” and it was like June 2023 all over again - time to get another node to make sure my first node is working

[midnight mural]

I can put pizza delivery dude in medium fast meow. I’ll leave it for a bit.

Done

[abstract iron]

I can put one up at work on medium fast that I believe has LOS to the taller Williamsburg waterfront buildings

maybe a donk facing WB and a WinMesh facing downtown, both on MF?

and I've had them able to mesh through the inner building

[abstract iron]

also need to read the guides on using the antenna analyzer suggested here...

[topaz hull]

oh my god theres a dog that barks

[midnight mural]

I’m spamming Bergen County about MediumFast during my commute

Use the MediumFast Lora preset for NYCmesh.

Visit the Meshtastic “us - NYC metro” Discord

[abstract iron]

saw your msg

[midnight mural]

Im blasting away 😎

[karmic junco]

18??? Lol

That I have quite a few, but my Linux I kinda on and off. Namely family time, fix stuff time, etc all take away from tinker time

Might be me. Lol

[midnight mural]

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1854236355/original-smart-meter-ring-braze-welded?ls=a&ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=meshtastic&ref=sc_gallery-1-12&frs=1&pop=1&plkey=2621a1a672f81ae4d6ac88d933e01dbadd3a6e0e%3A1854236355

was browsing Meshtastic stuff for giggles….we totally need these rings for our nodes! We need to harmonize over 144MHz 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣😂😂🤣😂🤣

[karmic junco]

What the f is this

A copper ring to go over my smart meter?

[midnight mural]

Yes!

[tight island]

Got this message! Are these the steps to do that? https://meshtastic.org/blog/why-your-mesh-should-switch-from-longfast/#making-the-change

Or are there more specific steps? I'm confused what was meant by "NYCmesh"

[karmic junco]

But... Why

[karmic junco]

I don't know if that's necessary. While NYC is dense it's not meshtastic dense. You can tell by the chutil stat. We don't use that much, not enough to cause saturation

[abstract iron]

Wait is AC2YM here?

[jaunty harness]

Probably better to not say NYCMesh since that's a separate group doing 2.4GHz WiFi mesh not the LoRa Meshtastic stuff - we just happen to be lucky enough to have someone in that group also doing Meshtastic deployments

also spamming "switch to mediumfast" is kinda the opposite of a group test at a specific time which is more useful than one or two random people just moving over and wondering why they did cause no one's there

[blissful moon]

I have a sensecap in my office not in the window and I don't think high enough.. 17th floor.. changed to medium fast.. sent a test didn't got ack. 😦

[abstract iron]

I'll move the donk to med F if today is experiment day

im at work Chelsea

[blissful moon]

I'm at midtown..

[abstract iron]

ok I put the donk on MedF

[blissful moon]

my Sensecap is 7768

[abstract iron]

it's facing uptown from chel

wait will this just endlessly collide my t1e then?

my t1e has better Rx than Teufelsberg that would be a bummer

if any MedF testers can find it it's zllP 68ca

I won't necessarily be connected to it

(interactively)

ah man now I can't get out of the building without the donk

[midnight mural]

Very good point about the naming….i didn’t think about that.

Also in the not thinking department, probably should have noted if you want to test in MediumFast, go join…..

Excitement and not thinking rarely work out.

I personally have had terrible luck with LongFast, so I have no problems rocking MediumFast for awhile; days even

[midnight mural]

What should we call our Meshtastic network in NYC?

[glossy pine]

East River Ho down

[normal osprey]

Good question. NYC Mesh woulda been the obvious choice but that’s taken

[abstract iron]

5 Boroughs 6 Hops

[glossy pine]

NOOYAWKMERSH

[normal osprey]

MeshtasticNYC

[glossy pine]

MeshNY

NYCesh

[rare sparrow]

EmpireMesh 👑

[glossy pine]

🗽 mesh

🗽

[rare sparrow]

BagelMesh

PizzaMesh

[glossy pine]

BECmesh

[normal osprey]

BodegaMesh

put a node in every bodega

[rare sparrow]

MeshAndCheese

[normal osprey]

MediumFastWalkers

[daring moth]

Just like the MTA isn't named after any specific place in NYC, why don't we name it Metropolitan Meshtastic network?

[daring moth]

Wait, that might be in violation of Meshtastic's trademark. Nevermind.

[normal osprey]

I like region specific mesh names like Austin Mesh and Baymesh etc

[rare sparrow]

MetroTextAnywhere

[glossy pine]

BaconMesh&Cheese

[normal osprey]

we can’t promise anywhere 😂

[rare sparrow]

MeshThroughAir

[rare sparrow]

can't even get pass my neighborhood 😂

[glossy pine]

RememberCordlessPhones?LongStoryShortYouCanTextOnThoseBandwidthsItsKindaDopeMesh

NYCTXT

BigAppleMesh

[rare sparrow]

B.E.C. Mesh

[midnight mural]

That’s why I said nycmesh, and totally forgot about the WiFi nycmesh

I do like MeshNY, we have potential to connect to the northern nodes 🌞

[rare sparrow]

can we just ask for the license and called MeshtasticNY 👀

[topaz hull]

RatMesh

Metropolitan Mesh Authority

MMA

Interborough Rapid Mesh

[rare sparrow]

Interborough Rapid Transmission Mesh

[normal osprey]

New York Mesh

[glossy pine]

NYM

[normal osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/open-arms-major-league-baseball-come-to-me-relieved-francisco-lindor-gif-13305065719280057159

[glossy pine]

True, can’t possibly do that

NYCm

[twin root]

We should call our mesh the major deegan because it's always congested

[rare sparrow]

NYMeshCongested : (

[twin root]

I significantly reduced my load on my node by switch to to CORE_PORTNUMS_ONLY and not having to retransmit whatever the fuck experiment they are doing on Staten Island

[glossy pine]

Yes core portnums is essential in the city I think but sadly some of my devices seem unable to enter that mode

I havent tried setting it with the CLI tho just the Meshtastic app

[twin root]

Unable or unwilling? It is supported by all hardware IIRC.

[glossy pine]

Hmmm, when I change to that then save the change it always reverts to All when I reconnect after reboot

[twin root]

That's weird, you're on client mode?

[glossy pine]

Yup

[twin root]

You should submit a bug TBH you might have discovered something

[glossy pine]

Ahh cool

On the GitHub or somewhere else?

[twin root]

Yes on the firmware GitHub, it might be a firmware issue if it's happening on the app and on the CLI

[glossy pine]

Ahh I haven’t tried CLI yet

[rare sparrow]

I use that to backup my config

much easier

[frail grotto]

I vote for 0i I'm meshing here

[glossy pine]

So far my CLI use has been solely to figure out how to deactivate buzzer alerts

[normal osprey]

first thing I do on my T1000s is to set the buzzer to alert bell only

[rare sparrow]

What’s ur device?

[rare sparrow]

This is exactly what I set up for my T1000E

[glossy pine]

I’ve got a bunch now. The one I had to use CLI for was an elecrow thinknode m1

[glossy pine]

Ok wait the web client successfully changes them to core portnums only it’s gotta be an iOS app problem

[midnight mural]

I feel like the iOS app has a few problems. I use both and it seems buggier

[twin root]

Yeah it's definitely cleaner looking though

[midnight mural]

Yes

[twin root]

My users really like the iOS app at burning Man, like non-technical users

[midnight mural]

When I commute back home, I’m gonna spam LingFast to join discord and discuss the future of our mesh 🙂

https://discord.com/channels/867578229534359593/1202833898376138752

is this the url I should use?

[twin root]

Yeah

[midnight mural]

The one up top to the right?

[twin root]

Make it your longname

[midnight mural]

Brilliant

[twin root]

Yeah or use tinyurl and decrease the url size. The shorter the text the higher the likelihood it will be received by people

[midnight mural]

It’s gonna be too long to be the long name

[twin root]

Less time it takes to transmit, there is no padding with this protocol so shorter messages are much better.

With a URL shortener it will not be

[midnight mural]

Roger

I think that’s a better approach than what I was doing this morning…..I really am just excited to make things better

[rare sparrow]

use this

https://t.ly/

this is pretty short

[midnight mural]

Thank you

[midnight mural]

https://t.ly/DFmFr

[glass marsh]

Newb question, seems like I don't have a direct connection to any other nodes but I'm seeing nodes via hops. How is that happening? A repeater somewhere?

[twin root]

Couple reasons!

You might not see a "direct connection" (Either via a traceroute or via hops = 0) because your node is able to listen better than it can speak to your nearest node.

So your recieving their messages, but you cant TX to them to do the "handshake" required for a direct connection.

Try getting higher up/moving around and try running a traceroute to your closest node(s) and see what happens. You will then be able to see outgoing/incoming DBI, which will tell you something very important:

is it me who cant hear or is it the other node who cant hear me?

[twin root]

awesome! 🙂

[glass marsh]

Thanks, can't get any higher though. You'll be glad to know that NER0 seems to be offline. That was my only direct connection 🙂

[twin root]

oh its online, I just got a packet from it lol

That node is in a great spot hes just gotta change his settings a little

[rare sparrow]

NER0 rebooted not too long ago

according to the uptime

[glass marsh]

Yep it's back

[rare sparrow]

JUST rebooted 😂

[twin root]

hmmm lemme run a trace and see if he fixed anything with the configs

[daring moth]

I believe people need to be already on this Discord server for that link to work. They first need to navigate to https://discord.com/invite/ktMAKGBnBs

[twin root]

I think you are correct

good callout

[midnight mural]

I think I like all of this teamwork

[daring moth]

However, I'm not sure how two URLs in sequence would work.

[midnight mural]

https://t.ly/5YjnJ

[twin root]

eh just the first URL will be enough im sure they will figure it out

[midnight mural]

I’ll write something up here, and will take suggestions

[twin root]

you know we can also transmit waypoint with a good amount of text that just show up on the map? We can do that with both links

and it will show up as a pin on everyones map

[midnight mural]

NYC Discord https://t.ly/DFmFr
talks about leaving LongFast
(https://t.ly/5YjnJ may need 1st)

[midnight mural]

What location would we send?

[twin root]

maybe just on the water under manhattan or something.

[midnight mural]

Oh like leave everyone a note

[twin root]

yep

[midnight mural]

I don’t think it can hurt to over communicate

[twin root]

I can send it out, I have a pretty decent connection. That being said, not as decent as others

[midnight mural]

I love how I use 🍕like Groot 😂

[daring moth]

We could reduce it to a single link if we all migrate to a region-specific Discord server. That would have the additional benefit of having a separate #random, etc.

[midnight mural]

That’s out of my wheelhouse. Is there anything other than discord, or does that offer us easy linking to the OG Meshtastic discord??

[daring moth]

I've seen that many other Meshtastic regions do this, and leave the invite link at the bottom of their #1196916552725958706 thread.

[midnight mural]

I was just curious

[daring moth]

I guess a landing webpage? Containing some basic information including the two Discord links.

[rare sparrow]

a GitHub page would work

even a Pastebin

[normal osprey]

I’ve been sending the following on Long Fast occasionally:

meshtastic discord | connect | us - NYC metro

[glossy pine]

That’s how I got here from zlla

[rare sparrow]

https://meshny.github.io/

okay done

(feel free to add stuff onto the page: https://github.com/MeshNY/meshny.github.io/)

[midnight mural]

Oh wow, that means we can put all kinds of info up there if we wanted!!!!

Great job

[rare sparrow]

(also sorry just named it meshny i know we haven't decided a name yet)

[midnight mural]

https://w2asm.com/hops/

I so badly want to one day be able to interact with the BBS

[rare sparrow]

noice

https://tenor.com/view/noice-nice-click-gif-8843762

[midnight mural]

That looks hella better. I’m gonna send this out commuting home from NJ in a bit

talks about leaving LongFast
https://meshny.github.io/

Awww shit yes, my first ack in NJ 😎

🍕time

[woven trellis]

What’s the setup? And directions on how to set things up (me be a noob).

[cerulean thorn]

Is there going to be a switch to medium fast?

[woven trellis]

(I’m bl_1)

[cerulean thorn]

I'm this handle and Westfield south side router

[daring moth]

Make sure your firmware is 2.6.x, but yes, I believe some of us might've switched over already.

[cerulean thorn]

Defcon is going to be shortturbo

Most likely

NER0 is still on longfast

[daring moth]

We're hoping all nodes running old firmware and/or on the ROUTER family of roles stay put on LongFast. Read here for more details on that last point: https://meshtastic.org/docs/configuration/tips/#avoid-routerand-repeater

[cerulean thorn]

Mine is just named router

It's not in that role

That was before the changes

I'll put another 1W node on mediumfast

[daring moth]

I thought someone said NER0 was on the ROUTER role as of yesterday or the day before. Maybe I'm confusing them with another node.

[cerulean thorn]

Oh how about that

He must have switched it

My node is 1W into a 6dbi antenna above my roof

[cerulean thorn]

i can text him and ask him to swap it

[daring moth]

I think people have already tried DM-ing the node over the mesh.

[cerulean thorn]

i just messaged him on signal

My node

It's next to a discone. For other sdr fun

[frail grotto]

I've tried swapping to medium fast and I loose all nodes and never find new ones after hours

[cerulean thorn]

Yeah I didn't see anyone or get any acks

with the UDP mesh we could bridge mediumfast and longfast

already been meshing with that

[abstract iron]

Yeah I want to try that udp bridge but haven't had time to look into how it works, or if any of my nodes are network capable. Can I run meshtasticd and make the host do the UDP?

[cerulean thorn]

you need to enable the option in the firmware

it just broadcasts UDP to the subnet

[daring moth]

It's still early on. Also, a lot of the nodes in NYC were deployed by gardener2549 at some of NYC Mesh's existing ISP infrastructure locations.

[cerulean thorn]

oh nice colocating with nycmesh is awesome

i used to volunteer awhile ago

[midnight mural]

Oh I’m a few SDRs into my beginnings……and also part of how I got here 😎

You can volunteer time to nycmesh? That sounds neat.

[cerulean thorn]

well back then it was like me and Brian

it died and it came back

[rare sparrow]

I'm too far from everything 😦

or i want to participate in nycmesh too

the closest is the sunset park one

[cerulean thorn]

i used to be on 71st st in bay ridge, but moved out awhile ago

[rare sparrow]

I'm pretty close to the 77st station

didn't see any node that's close enough on the map

[cerulean thorn]

still have keys to the roof

unless they changed em

[midnight mural]

Roof party/s

I’ll bring the 🍕

[rare sparrow]

PIZZA PARTY!

[daring moth]

It looks like you can: https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/pull/6342

[midnight mural]

If I’m using my T-1000E to blast LongFast messages about the discord….and my WisMesh Pocket on MediumFast for a bit….can they both be on client? Currently I have LongFast on ClientMute and MediumFast on Client

[daring moth]

AFAIK, yes, as they should operate independently of one another.

[midnight mural]

Cool

[jaunty harness]

oh sure, I get stuck in devops hell the day y'all move to MediumFast and put a page about it 😄

always liked MetroMesh but there's existing productS using that name

[jaunty harness]

it's on by default in 2.6.x, pip install mudp if you wanna use pdxlocations awesome python util to see the network packets far as I can tell the "magic sauce" to bridging LongFast<->MediumFast over UDP is LongFast needs a channel named #MediumFast and MediumFast needs a channel named #LongFast so the "incorrect" preset can still decode the "correct" preset's default channel

I thought it was supposed to be 0 hopped like MQTT , and I'm seeing 0/0 hops for local stuff between window and desk nodes over UDP but I also had the babelfox (which only has a SIMULATED RADIO right now) start talking over UDP to the window and desktop nodes, including receiving NODEINFO from them acquired over RF and then... I got someone with Meshsense and auto-traceroutes enabled running traceroutes to it, did I mention it doesn't actually a radio?

[midnight mural]

I did sign up for when the femtofox is available again. Excited for that

[jaunty harness]

lemme know if it ends up being a long wait, pretty sure I still have enoug bits to slap another one together

[midnight mural]

It’s TBD so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[glossy pine]

Built my first enclosure

[cerulean thorn]

got udp working with linux and a tdeck on different subnets

also need to finish my wire shark dissector

[neon forge]

If you have any questions on this product let me know. (Its my product)

[midnight mural]

Is there an IPX rating in its future?

[midnight mural]

Stupid question. You all are just using UDP on whatever network as another path between nodes, sans 915MHz

I’m sometimes kinda dense 🤦🏻‍♂️

[cerulean thorn]

it's a way to bridge the modulations

[midnight mural]

Yeah!

[cerulean thorn]

since they are on different frequencies and settings

but yeah its the same data via UDP and RF

[midnight mural]

Yeah yeah. I don’t know why it hadn’t clicked. I was just kinda along for the ride. 🙃

So piggy backing off the meshnyc would be suuuuuper sick

[daring moth]

Yep, I believe @gardener2549 has deployed several already. Eventually we should ping them to switch the nodes to MediumFast. I guess after we give some time for people to receive the messages on the mesh linking to https://meshny.github.io/.

[jaunty harness]

the problem right now with using the NYCMesh backbone is he's been deploying nRF52840 nodes (needs some glue to get the usb-serial connection to become UDP)

[neon forge]

It would have to be a redesigned product, its hard to waterproof a thin 3d printed case with a solar panel. Lots of glue would be needed! If I go injection molded its possible, but at the moment there isn't enough sales to justify the mold costs. So for now I added conformal coating, On the Brown/Blue cases the LED holes are now covered. (Black case the LED does not shine through) and I adjusted the case design to close better and reduce any gaps between the seams of the case.

[abstract iron]

wait you designed it? I love it. were you here to see the bird feeder I stuck it to?

also my girlfriend somehow rinsed it out in the shower and it's still alive

I know it claims no weather proofing but it's fairly hardy

[neon forge]

Yeah, LowMesh is my company and I design the case, PCB, rebuild the firmware, flash firmware, have the PCBs made in China but I 3d print the cases and do assembly here in Florida.

[abstract iron]

"oh I thought this was just a kids toy" (like next to ducks and plastic dinos and stuff in the shower) it still works tho

[neon forge]

Oh, and had RAK design and tune the antenna

[abstract iron]

ha ha. unfortunately I had to take the bird feeder down because my apt is doing construction but it was getting me all around the neighborhood

[inner helm]

Do my Hudson valley people know of a drone went up. I can’t tell if a drone went up or someone was crossing the bear mountain and linked everyone from West Point to Peekskill

I didn’t see the rest of the cortland crew with @twin root n dem

[twin root]

I did that last weekend, was me

[abstract iron]

all I did was silicon tape the edges and wish it luck

[twin root]

But @placid olive knows more about this, he's out there. I was just visiting

[inner helm]

I got you last weekend but some crazy stuff connected today at 3pm

[neon forge]

Its cute! all the via's are tented (covered) so it helps with shorts, the conformal coating version is always better though. Glad it worked! Yeah I did everything except submerge it and it worked but I cant legally give it an IP rating if water can still penetrate through.

[inner helm]

This guy.

[twin root]

Yeah grift just called me, hime hit my nodes in Hoboken from Courtlandt

[inner helm]

I had a direct connection to him and connected to westpointbif not farther.

WOW!!!!!

If we can connect to Hoboken we could get to the whole NYC mesh with better routing code.

Hopefully some day we get connected

We’re not far away.

[abstract iron]

that is pretty great. looking forward to the construction ending so I can slap it back out there

[daring moth]

Is there any way to only allow messages to bridge between LongFast and MediumFast, but not Telemetry/Position/NodeInfo?

[daring moth]

Otherwise, with so many nodes on older firmware, there's a major downside with bridging them. Nodes on older firmware spamming their NodeInfo.

[midnight mural]

I put my MediumFast node up in the roof, doubt anyone will see it on the mesh but who knows!

[abstract iron]

Pizza what's your home loc, E Manhattan?

[midnight mural]

Yeah, midtown east

[abstract iron]

Man I wish I had roof right now (also construction grr)

Id put the donk on MF and point at you

[midnight mural]

I may actually ask if I can legit put a solar node up there

There are some solar lights already there; I should ask the sup

[glossy pine]

Every roof we get is one step closer to blanket coverage

[midnight mural]

Little by little I keep leaning more towards asking and less stealth….but stealth would be smol

And also, stealthy lol

[jaunty harness]

without nodeinfo you'd have to start memorizing everyone's !userid which is not very realistic

[daring moth]

Or like, rate limit it?

[abstract iron]

Well Pizza how much stealth do you need heh

[jaunty harness]

probably best just blanket ignore on the bridge nodes, they'll never know what they're missing

[glossy pine]

❤️ 🥷

[abstract iron]

My roof added all kinds of cameras lately so it was a double problem of stealth while mounting and also conspicuity over time

[glossy pine]

Blessings to the stealthy who spare us bureaucratic steps and rejections

[midnight mural]

I want it smol, rechargeable and cheap, so if it goes missing, oh well

But easy to attach to shit, magnets, etc

Remember the Throwies, or something like that? Cheap as fuck battery powered LEDs with magnets on them to throw and stick to shit.

I want that, cheap and smol, but less throwing, and more sticky

[abstract iron]

I think you can hide a lot if the antenna isn't obvious

but that's just IMHO

Nobody thought much of me leaving WinMesh around at work until the Alfa 915 showed up

[midnight mural]

Probably. The stubby ones are so tiny….

[abstract iron]

Then suddenly people noticed

And wanted to know if it was a ham radio

(pork: the donk)

[jaunty harness]

donk is chonk for sure with the Alfa 915

[midnight mural]

What is the donk? You know, besides a donk lol

[jaunty harness]

1W nRF52840 node

zilla is borrowing my build cause it was just sitting on my workbench, ended up needing to do some battery troubleshooting but otherwise seems to be treating him well 8)

[midnight mural]

I like all of these builds. Cool stuff

I love this sweet intersection of radio and computers 🥰

[abstract iron]

Yeah. tried it in rural PA and nice way to get lazy coverage at work. just sit it on desk about 15 feet from window

then wander work-life with t1e on c_m

[midnight mural]

The t1e (t1e is way better to type) and is great to carry. Will be good for summer

[daring moth]

Maybe put a Command hook on a surface and clip https://www.seeedstudio.com/Leather-Keychain-p-5769.html to it.

[midnight mural]

I want that hook for it, dunno what else I’d order, except for another t1e, have that somewhere for something

[abstract iron]

Yeah I think with GPS off you could get ... 2.5 d? on a charge

(guess?)

[midnight mural]

Yeah, I was getting a little over 2 and getting nervous

[abstract iron]

mine only drop about half after a day of Smart Positioning, biking, etc

[midnight mural]

I’m curious how many backpackers are going to have them. I can’t wait to lug some radio toys to mountain tops

[normal osprey]

Just did some range testing around Williamsburg on Short Fast slot 80 with two T1000-E. I’m very impressed with the results! Got as good or better range than the same devices, same area on LF 20.

I’m ready for the New York Mesh cutover! 😂

[abstract iron]

oh wow

[midnight mural]

We’ve created a monster 😎

[normal osprey]

Shoulda hopped on Medium Fast but i forgot about our ad hoc testing. Also getting ready for EDC LV where we’ll be on SF80.

[cerulean thorn]

I know someone going there and they are bringing nodes

[normal osprey]

Tell them we’ll be on Short Fast 80 and/or have them join the event thread I created.

https://discord.com/channels/867578229534359593/1347697193682731069

[cerulean thorn]

info relayed

thanks!

looks like NER0 will be switching to client

[midnight mural]

That’s going to be lots of fun - edc

[cerulean thorn]

i wonder if he accidentally went back to router, he builds his own nodes like me

[normal osprey]

or maybe he just wants to watch Rome burn?

[cerulean thorn]

naw, he wants it to expand, he gave me 2 1W nodes i need to deploy

[normal osprey]

Sorry, bad Emperor Nero burning down Rome joke.

[cerulean thorn]

missed that

[abstract iron]

So wait would we want to move NYC to med fast and a diff freq slot to get off air congestion from long f ?

to maximize the switch

[daring moth]

In the US region and leaving all other settings as default, MediumFast is on a different frequency slot than LongFast.

[jaunty harness]

womp womp (RAK + stubby gizont about 6 or so ft from 1W femto still on LongFast

[midnight mural]

I just had 🌞show up and then I tried to pizza party message and I got this:

[jaunty harness]

my node is being funky, I swithed it back to CLIENT and it rebooted ... and now I can't reconnect over BT even though everything seems fine 🤷

Apr 23 21:25:53 femtofox sh[313]: 0x849b9550 --> 0xb8788fe0 (-19.25dB) --> 0xa2eb780c (-10.00dB) --> 0xe2e38924 (-4.25dB) --> 0x32299c05 (-9.75dB) --> 0x849a56dc (-8.00dB) --> 0xc63e351e (-2.00dB) --> 0xa2e268c0 (-15.50dB) --> 0x56748ef (-9.25dB) --> ...

https://tenor.com/bWEVj.gif

[glossy pine]

Try 🌝

[rare sparrow]

@jaunty harness just saw ur pull requst

thx for the update

they are now online!

[glossy pine]

😭 that node was renamed you prob have the old one still

[midnight mural]

I just picked this node up in SoCal last week! Not my OG node

[abstract iron]

wait are we on MF now?

[midnight mural]

Do you hear from my Pizza Deliver Dude on the roof?

[midnight mural]

I put my WisMesh on MediumFast, my t1e is on LongFast

[jaunty harness]

not sure, still can't connect bt to that node for whatever reason... about to get a fresh something up

[midnight mural]

My PDG I just went up to check inC it sees NOBODY lol

[jaunty harness]

poor DHL guy is still out delivering packages, but goodies just arrived!

been wanting to checkout the logger hat, namely because it has an RTC

[glossy pine]

I’ve got a device on medfast now

[abstract iron]

ok I'll give it a whirl for a sec

I gave up quickly at work

[midnight mural]

I think I’m too far north and not high enough

[glossy pine]

I’m just gonna leave it on and check every day or two see if anyone came through

I’ve got others for lf

[abstract iron]

I can bike over to the water some other night to hit your node pizza just couldn't tonight

ok I'm txing MF from Williamsburg w the donk

no ack

[jaunty harness]

time to recheck which antenna is actually best SWR @ 913.125MHz 😄

[midnight mural]

I got the notification, no idea where though. It’s not showing up. Oh well

I’m going to leave mine on the roof overnight

[jaunty harness]

k, i'm leaving pork koishi / 4ae3 in the window over night - probably move to a few feet further away to other window tomorrow after digging around for a long-enough-ass USB cable

[midnight mural]

I’m in the east River/roosevelt island area, t1e is Casey Jones….i can seeee sooooo muuuuch of BK from here visually…..not seeing anything done there on the default medium fast 😦

[abstract iron]

I can't even get out on LF right now so I'll experiment tomorrow

[midnight mural]

Cool cool. I can probably play tomorrow night out here too

I should bring both of my nodes with me and do one at a time out here

[abstract iron]

I'll bring enough nodes to run a MF at work tomorrow

not exactly sure what combo

[midnight mural]

I just hit my roof node from as far east as I can go till I hit water…so MF at least is working for me

[abstract iron]

or if I can get out later I'll hit the water

nice

is it perceptually faster or is this down to airtime measurements?

[midnight mural]

Yeah yeah. I’m still feeling alone out here, but who knows

I have no clue. I’m not even going to try and guess, I want real data lol.

I’m getting there, I’ll get a home node that I can have fun with remotely and then have my mobile nodes with me

I did just DM my roof node and it was like bam, locked

[abstract iron]

Yah set up the remote admin. that comes in handy once you spread out

on my vaca I had two nodes around the property not in BT range and could tweak them with my third t1e

[midnight mural]

It’s on my list of things to do. I have a third node coming to me this weekend 🤞so that admin channel stuff is really on my list. I think I have the main channel figured out for my own nodes so it seems like admin stuff is next 😎

[midnight mural]

Yeah, that’s what I’m looking for….so you can do that from pretty far out huh?

[abstract iron]

Yeah if you're in mesh range you can remote admin

it's a pretty slick concept

[midnight mural]

Yaaaaaas

[abstract iron]

I didn't look at how they impl it

I assume it's a special uh... what are they calling them... telemetry app..routing app..etc

but I didn't dump the msg

but yeah I could change all the nodes' mode like client etc from remote while anywhere in mesh range

[jaunty harness]

it's admin packet, which is what apps use when they connect/control a node

and yeah it's dope! you add the publickey from the node you want to control from, to the node you want to control (which can hold up to 3)

[abstract iron]

yeah at first I was setting them up with the Meshtastic CLI but if you just carefully copy paste in the app you can do it

[jaunty harness]

not sure about android, mac/ios app you go into settings, enable admin and then admin shows up and you choose the node from the list. from cli it's the usual commands but just add --dest-node !1234567

[abstract iron]

oh btw another mystery I saw was on your node you can set a node to be a favorite!

[midnight mural]

I need to work that out this week

[jaunty harness]

settings the keys via cli is actually funky, if you fill all three up you need to do --set security.admin_key 0 and then reenter them to clear the array

[abstract iron]

I've never seen this exposed in the android app

and didn't confirm yet that "favorite nodes" affects Known_Modes meshing (maybe?)

[jaunty harness]

i'm not 100% if it's client or app side as you can do --set-favorite-node and --set-ignore-node from cli

[abstract iron]

???

[jaunty harness]

favorites just sorts them higher in the node list, and in the admin drop down list they're at the top instead of randomly in the list of all nodes

[abstract iron]

ohhhh

[jaunty harness]

Actually I’m pretty sure it has to be devices nodedb if it’s doing ignore since that’s device side

What are your MedFast channel / airtime % like? I’m seeing 0.00/0.05

[midnight mural]

I was mucking around with the desktop client and sent this fast, position request came back instantly as well

[jaunty harness]

Heh it’s direct, don’t get any faster without even faster preset

But LF -> MF is basically 1s -> .5s xmit time

also rebooted to LF real quick to get 1:1. #s, chan util 17% 😬

I think even without connectivity we can still quantify improvements by doing little checks like that

Sit a node down, leave app connected for 30mins, flip preset and get another 30mins worth of data to compare and back to whatever preset you want

it’s not perfect but it’s still something to gauge

Also my 17% is grain of salt as single data point and there’s a 1W 6ft away and another with txpower….11? 15ft away

[midnight mural]

Going back to the admins channel, you can generate a key in the web browser client over usb, copy it, and paste it into your other nodes, save, and be done?

No need to copy/paste by hand?

Been poking around the settings while charging

[jaunty harness]

the node already generated it's publickey, nothing new to generate

oh the device you want to use to control/admin other devices, get that one's publickey

then on the other device(s) you want to control is where you then enter that publickey in the adminKey / admin_key

A = the one you use to control / B = the one being controlled

so copy A's publickey -> B's Admin Key

oh derp it lost the letters somehow? idk, i'm going to sleep but yeah it's just putting pubkey into adminkey and then

[abstract iron]

Ok putting a WinMesh Pocket with a Muzi on MF and bringing it to work. Might not have time to play with it but it will be on

[glossy pine]

Ok just checked my mf device not a peep of a peep

the cultural momentum of lf may outweigh any tx rx gains we might get from laboriously trying to get people to switch

with some good positioning I can reach a lot of people on long fast. True, a little choppy at times, and astonishingly good too

[karmic junco]

Morning.

[glossy pine]

The good thing about using mf though is that we get to use the abbreviation “mf” which I misread every time in my head

[karmic junco]

Anyone else still running a 1276?

Because if I run only t1000, I don't get a lot, and if I run only 1276 I get some other ones, but if I run a techo, a 1276 and a t1000 I see a lot more.

But it's a little ridiculous to run 3 nodes for 3 hops

[glossy pine]

what sort of controlling does one device exercise over another, or to what purpose?

[midnight mural]

Same here, gonna take my bigger antenna node out to the east River tonight

[glass marsh]

Anyone have any experience with the seeed P1 solar nodes?! Thinking about getting one of those. Can put it on a 28th floor balcony in downtown Brooklyn facing SW towards SI

[daring moth]

AFIAK, currently nobody besides Seeed Studio themselves has them. They just made them available to pre-order a couple days ago.

[glass marsh]

Ah it's brand new. Thanks will probably pick one up

[daring moth]

Unless you want to supply your own batteries, make sure to get the P1 Plus rather than the P1.

[glass marsh]

Yep

[daring moth]

However, if you're okay with DIY, you can likely go cheaper by making a #1357744150887272570.

[daring moth]

Usually people get it from Lowe's (https://meshtastic.org/docs/community/enclosures/rak/harbor-breeze-solar-hack/), but there's very few Lowes' in NYC.

[abstract iron]

ok I have donk LF and WinMesh Muzi MF at work

do your best

[glass marsh]

Put my sencecap on the window in mf mode in SI

[daring moth]

Make sure the firmware is on 2.6.x. If it's not, I'd strongly recommend backing up the configuration before updating.

[glass marsh]

Yeah it's on 2.6.4

[jaunty harness]

you can remotely change any setting, so lora modem preset, device name, timezone, etc...

[glossy pine]

Ahhh dang I wish I’d realized before putting some nodes up

[daring moth]

The next time you're in Bluetooth range, try setting up remote admin.

[jaunty harness]

it's definitely a more advanced feature, there's been talk of gating the infra roles behind a working remote admin setup

[normal osprey]

Left a T-Echo in my window on Medium Fast last night and saw one other node

[jaunty harness]

one more than the rest of us! 😄

[midnight mural]

https://a.co/d/9KWYkj8

ordered one, on sale for $50

[rare sparrow]

Channel Util 0% 🥲

[daring moth]

Assuming that includes non-Meshtastic stuff on the same frequency slot, I'm quite surprised that that's the case.

[jaunty harness]

AURSINC is the one I have, been working great. updated the firmware, did initial calibration and saved it to sd card so I can load right up SWR testing 875-950MHz

[rare sparrow]

Yeah

Slot 45 correct?

[jaunty harness]

906.875MHz (LF) vs 913.125MHz (MF)

[rare sparrow]

LF (20)
MF (45)

[jaunty harness]

yeah the slots work out to slightly different frequencies, probably something else like helium or sidewalk sitting on 906.875

[rare sparrow]

Let me go to a higher spot

[daring moth]

I know that. I'm just confused on how Meshtastic seemingly doesn't pickup any transmissions unrelated to Meshtastic that happen to occur on the same frequency range.

[cerulean thorn]

how would meshtastic decode other ISM transmissions

all the other stuff there is AFSK FSK etc

even AM

[daring moth]

It wouldn't decode them, it would just measure the amount of noise.

[cerulean thorn]

it cant do that

it sits on one channel

you need to scan the range to determine all the noise

[rare sparrow]

0.57!

[cerulean thorn]

i should strap a node on my drone later

been too windy lately

[daring moth]

Then how can the Meshtastic app give a SNR measurement when hearing a node?

[cerulean thorn]

because it decodes the signal

you cant get an SNR without decoding the signal

[daring moth]

I know that, but if you know the signal strength (RSSI) and the SNR, I thought you could calculate the noise level from that?

[jaunty harness]

haha so 763a ~ ZLL1 - makes sense you picked him up

[cerulean thorn]

Just pointed a yagi towards Staten Island with medium fast

[abstract iron]

wait I'm a little confused. I left my ZLL1 on LF

844 AM would be me blazing across the Williamsburg bridge or something

763a would be ZLLA WinMesh on MF

[daring moth]

I guess someone has bridged the two. However, unless they're blocking nodes running old firmware, doing that kinda ruins one of the main selling points of switching to MediumFast.

[jaunty harness]

oh I was wrong, it's ZLLA: ZLLA :t_rex: !ed81763a

[normal osprey]

Did anyone else see the messages on LF about how the nymesh website is wrong and how we don’t understand hop counts? i switched nodes so lost the messages. I shoulda screenshotted them.

[cerulean thorn]

2.6.4 is buggy as hell

or the android app broke as well, the modem presets dont change the frequency when i switch modes

[normal osprey]

Long Fast & Medium Fast living in harmony. Does it matter that they’re right next to each other if they’re on different presets/slots?

[cerulean thorn]

nice location

they should be fine

maybe move then 1 wave legth away

which is like inches lol

[daring moth]

You have to set the frequency slot to zero for it to use the default frequency slot of the given radio preset.

[cerulean thorn]

30cm

[daring moth]

(It shows up as zero only when the textbox is selected, at least on Android).

[cerulean thorn]

it doesnt let you do that when you pick a preset

they changed something

i'm just going to use the CLI

[daring moth]

Well, when you deselect the textbox, the contents change to the default for the given radio preset. Internally, it's still stored as zero, and the firmware interprets that number as to calculate the frequency slot by taking a hash of the primary channel's name.

[cerulean thorn]

its stuck on 63 no matter what

what slot is the default for medium_fast

i can't even find the info on the website anymore

[daring moth]

Did you name the primary channel to anything other than blank (when blank, it'll have the radio preset name grayed out in the textbox out on Android)?

[normal osprey]

The apps definitely have bugs. I was dealing with a bug where my precise location wasn’t showing despite the ios app having precise location enabled.

I connected to the web client and it showed location within 23 km. Changed that to precise location in the web client and that resolved my issue.

[cerulean thorn]

my primary channel isn't mediumfast

that should not matter

unless they changed the firmware

[normal osprey]

i believe 45

[cerulean thorn]

let me try 45

45 is 913.125 mhz

[normal osprey]

yeah that’s it

[daring moth]

That's the issue. The frequency slot is calculated based on taking a cryptographic hash of the primary channel's name, which defaults to the radio preset's name.

[cerulean thorn]

thats stupid

just like the mqtt filtering which i patched out

[normal osprey]

it’s a good way for amateurs to not all be on the same slot, which i’m assuming is why it’s set up this way

[cerulean thorn]

i'll bug meshtastic devs about it, i'm in a chat for defcon prep

okay lets see if this works now

[glossy pine]

I saw it. They want to set their hops to 7 because we don’t grasp what they do. I tried to reply but not sure they got it since they’re 7 hops away lmao

[cerulean thorn]

if it stop crashing

i just moved WFL0 to medium fast

hopefully these settings stick

[normal osprey]

I could see that node 4 hops away from Domino Park on LF. I’ll see if I see it on MF.

[cerulean thorn]

the hops reset back to 7 again ugh

guess next time i take the mast down i'll put another radio in there

[normal osprey]

Only this node on MF so far for me.

[rare sparrow]

Add to ignore list ✅

[midnight mural]

https://meshny.github.io

love the updates 😎

Part of me wants to come over to BK just so I can experience what it’s like to be in a solid mesh locally

(As in an unscheduled visit today, it’s so nice out!)

[rare sparrow]

Feel free to add stuff onto it!

[daring moth]

https://github.com/MeshNY/meshny.github.io/pulls

[cerulean thorn]

okay finally

got 3 nodes of mine on MF now

[midnight mural]

Fuck it, I’m at least heading downtown with my t1e on MF.

What Frequency Slot should we be on?

[rare sparrow]

45 for MF

[midnight mural]

Ahhh, my shit is still on 20 🤦🏻‍♂️

[rare sparrow]

And Channel name MediumFast I assume?

[midnight mural]

Gonna double check my temp roof node

[normal osprey]

i’ll have Domino Park f25a in my window on MF while i’m at work today

[rare sparrow]

If your channel 0 is not default

[normal osprey]

i left it blank and it filled in with Primary Channel itself

[midnight mural]

My channel 0 is my personal channel, I have AQ== on channel 1

[cerulean thorn]

Hopefully I see others and not myself

[rare sparrow]

Yeah my channel 0 is my private

[daring moth]

That's why it didn't switch frequency slots automatically.

[cerulean thorn]

A blank PSK does not equal AQ== I found out lol

[normal osprey]

what happens if you leave the name blank with the default password?

[rare sparrow]

It will just says Channel 1

Need to manually type LongFast

[daring moth]

Or MediumFast when you're using the MediumFast radio preset.

[rare sparrow]

Exactly

So far no nodes near Greenwich Village on MF 🥹

[daring moth]

I wonder if we'll start seeing most of our nodes popup once @gardener2549 switches the nodes at NYC Mesh to MediumFast.

[midnight mural]

I set my temporary roof node to freq slot 45, will bring my t1e downtown soon also on slot 45 and MediumFast

[rare sparrow]

Yeah once we decided to officially switch

[cerulean thorn]

I'll sit alone on MF

Wonder if my splitter has enough isolation between ports. Run 2 nodes on 1 antenna

Already cranking 1W into a 8dbi antenna

[abstract iron]

My WinMesh / Muzi works has been on MF all day first time I checked

nothing yet 😦

[midnight mural]

I’m down in battery park…blasting begins on MF, freq slot 45

[normal osprey]

getting pier 6 pizza party messages on Medium Fast!!!

many of them

[cerulean thorn]

listen for me!

[cerulean thorn]

nice

[normal osprey]

Ok i have AF5E in my node list now. just needed to refresh it.

[cerulean thorn]

i'm gonna strap a node onto my drone

[midnight mural]

I keep blasting because I get zero acks

[normal osprey]

i’m assuming you didn’t get my replies because i still don’t have any pizza

[midnight mural]

Damn, I have fucking nothing on my end

Nope

I did a test before I left my building outside to make sure I could blast

And BTW, totally worth being outside rn 🥰🥰🥰🥰

[normal osprey]

once we get some well placed nodes on our MF test, we should be better

[midnight mural]

Damn mother fucking test 😂🤣I can not stop seeing mother fucker too for MF

[normal osprey]

i tried changing my big antenna node to Medium Fast. it just reboots and is back on LF

[midnight mural]

I got an ack from “blasting”

[normal osprey]

just got that message and did a tapback

got my first ack on medium fast

[midnight mural]

Emojis seem to not be happy for acks ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[jaunty harness]

I don't see the person complaining about 7 hops but would love to hear their justifcation for causing needing their packets to be heard over 100+ miles away and if they have heard of a "packet storm" because everything they send out causes one in those 100+ mile away dense areas they're reaching

(probably some overlap with that mentality and running Meshsense with auto-traceroutes is worth leaving enabled because it's not deminishing their local experience and screw everyone else's)

[cerulean thorn]

Scratch drone it blocks the sensors on the bottom and it freaks out

Need to rethink this

Or just build my diy one and a perm node on it

[jaunty harness]

Austin Mesh people do drones with DJI somethingsomething... they squeeze xiao nRF52840 + Wio radio deadbug style into some compartment on the bottom that also has a usb-c to plug node into

[cerulean thorn]

i cant find all my velro straps so i was limited on the mounting

[jaunty harness]

bubblegum and a dream 8)

[cerulean thorn]

sport mode doesnt disable all sensors like it says it does

down looking sensors still are on

[jaunty harness]

shot buddy there sent of me their drone + node

[cerulean thorn]

it worked but blocked GPS

wouldnt let me fly above 30m

my DIY drone is a 10", it's gonna be a warflying beast

suck all the RF up

[jaunty harness]

haha nice

[cerulean thorn]

Little broken atm

DJIs a moron can fly. Ardupilot not as much

[glossy pine]

Just got from Brownsville to WTC

[cerulean thorn]

Nice

[twin root]

I have a tourist from out of town and we're about to go up the Hudson yards edge and I have my node

I'll send some messages, y'all will probably get a few good routes for the 20 mins in up there 🙂

[glossy pine]

About 8 miles with no hops

[normal osprey]

I have clear line of sight to the Edge. Will keep an eye out for your messages.

[twin root]

Here's my setup. Only weighs 24 grams

Doesn't limit me to altitude at all

And flies for the full 30 mins

[abstract iron]

similar here at work

[cerulean thorn]

is that mount printed or bought?

oh my alt limit was bc no GPS

i was blocking the antenna

[twin root]

Printed I can send you the STL

When I'm home

[cerulean thorn]

omg yes please

oh wait thats not a mini 3 pro

[abstract iron]

27f1

😸

[normal osprey]

@twin root read you from Domino Park

[twin root]

Awesome!!!!!!

[normal osprey]

been hearing a lot about CORE_PORTNUMS lately

makes sense and considering using that rebroadcast setting also

[jaunty harness]

yeah got Feeb's message on east side of BQE too

[twin root]

Awesome

I'll switch to med fast in 5 mins

[jaunty harness]

0 hops / "rxSnr": -16.25 from what meshsense says

[normal osprey]

oh wow ok. my T-Echo with Gizont is ready!

“pointed” at the Edge and ready for feeb

switching my phone to the medium fast node

[abstract iron]

same

can you just leave a med fast up there feeb

solve a few probs 😸

[normal osprey]

spamming test messages on med fast

[twin root]

Ok changing to med fast now

[abstract iron]

rdy

got you

now mesh me to haqer

[normal osprey]

feeb coming through loud and clear

[abstract iron]

direct path with winmesh & Muzi works

I'm LOS if I stood up and moved it...semi obstructed by office crap

[cerulean thorn]

That was rev of wfl0

Currently it's a rpi

[abstract iron]

haqer, tx? shouldn't feeb be meshing us by now

[jaunty harness]

hehe I have an esp32 WROOM on my desk - has i2s board is dedicated internet radio streamer

[abstract iron]

idk how to force a nodeinfo advert on winmesh

[normal osprey]

you’d think!

[jaunty harness]

That also looks A LOT like a unicomp model m the node is on

[abstract iron]

I wonder what we are missing

[normal osprey]

that’s what i ended up with in my medium fast node list

[daring moth]

At least on previous firmware on my Seeed Studio SenseCap Card Tracker T1000-E, you can force a position broadcast by double-pressing the main button.

[normal osprey]

loves me some inkHUD

[glass marsh]

@twin root got you in SI on MF

[abstract iron]

763a is me but why not encrypted?

1 hop at that time makes sense

[daring moth]

Probably didn't receive NodeInfo yet.

[normal osprey]

yeah looks like incomplete nodeinfo

all three nodes in my list have incomplete info and all show unencrypted due to it

[terse gull]

i missed something. why's everyone trying out medium-fast

[daring moth]

https://meshtastic.org/blog/why-your-mesh-should-switch-from-longfast/

[abstract iron]

Haq I'm about to bike over the WB back towards you. see if ya can get me

[twin root]

Util went nuts

[jaunty harness]

that's MF??

[twin root]

No lf

MF was in the middle when it went to like 5%

Then I switch back

[jaunty harness]

AHHHHh gotcha

yeah seeing massive lower chan / air % on MF so far, seems like a decent metric for gauging MF even w/o enough nodes to mesh

[normal osprey]

is there a way to adhoc send nodeinfo from the app? i know the double click works on t1e and T-Echo

[cerulean thorn]

2.6.4 is bootlooping on my DIY node nice

[normal osprey]

new feature? 😂🙈

[cerulean thorn]

my favorite

[jaunty harness]

any user button should double-click to adhoc nodeinfo but I've also heard that was removed but 2.6.6 on RAK 4631/19007 showed it sent when I tried earlier

[cerulean thorn]

2.6.6 is out?

[twin root]

You can ask for an interrogation by clicking the node and then clicking exchange info

[jaunty harness]

konami code in *flasher but this particular node uses variant/diy firmware so built myself off latest git master last night

[cerulean thorn]

i dont even see it on github tho

maybe 2.6.5 wont loop i dont feel like compiling

[jaunty harness]

the git tags are usually but not always 1:1 to the releases

not sure if its someone missed it or git action hiccup, also just shows up in app as 2.6 not 2.6.# like 2.5.x did

[cerulean thorn]

looks like 2.6.5 isnt looping

[jaunty harness]

wooo!

[cerulean thorn]

flashing usb shit is annoying bc usb is jacked on this motherboard

[jaunty harness]

those are always "fun" - is it your node, is it the firmware, is it (spins wheel of blame) a butterfly a dinosaur stepped on 1million years ago?

[abstract iron]

I'm at the half point of wb

blasting txt

[midnight mural]

IVE MADE CONTACT WITH ZILLA IN MIDTOWN WITH MY TEMP ROOF NODE INSIDE MY APT. HOLY FUCKING SHIT WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[normal osprey]

i’m getting all of Zillas messages (as expected)

[normal osprey]

i think i see you squints

[jaunty harness]

shouldn't be that hard to spot the giant 🦖

[normal osprey]

can we get a node on top of lady liberty btw? anyone have any hookups?

[jaunty harness]

i mean its all copper... but now i'm not sure if magnets work good with copper

[cerulean thorn]

I've wanna depoy rogue solar nodes on water towers

[normal osprey]

is there a way to update rogue nodes?

[cerulean thorn]

Nrf can be via ble. Esp32 got wifi ota support now

Worse case could offline via admin channel

[abstract iron]

woooord

I stopped in the piss bridge halfway across WB to do that

I'll leave ZLLA on MF for now

[normal osprey]

got your full nodeinfo and we’re encrypted now

[twin root]

We're building a node with a femtofox to be deployed not rouge, but in a horribly inconvenient spot on top of a mountain. We're going to have a wifi card togglable via admin channel, and then a drone with a small wifi AP on it. Well fly the drone close enough, connect to it from the ground via 2.4ghz and then update the node that way

Drones are such a great tool for this stuff

[jaunty harness]

has your femto's wifi been stable? myne's been flapping a bit so I just plugged cable back in for now and sort out why between ethernet and wifi's 2 interface it thinks it has 3 IPs

also... there's not really convential firmware w/meshtasticd... you mean you're using the drone in AP mode to bridge your laptop to the femtofox's ssh?

[twin root]

Yes, just to get it network connectivity/internet and then I'll update that way

[jaunty harness]

i need to take a fresh look a the mesh->wifi toggle script, it had some very WTF decisions before like running lsof every 5secs

[cerulean thorn]

seeing nothing on MF only MQTT

[abstract iron]

my MF is at home but indoors so I would suspect it can't get out

[midnight mural]

I’m out and about on MF with my t1e

Also, I’m out with my motherfucking sense cap 🤣

[rare sparrow]

MF MF MF 😎

[tough acorn]

It works amazing well for a fifty dollar device. Their major weak point is that they only have an 80db dynamic range so you cannot tune a high grade duplexer with it. For most people that is not an issue. Ten or twenty years ago a device with similar specs from hp would be in the twenty grand range, base price.

[cerulean thorn]

yeah for 50 bucks it helps you get a decent antenna tune

actually got cheap SWR and power meter as well

wont work at meshtastic levels tho

or even band, but here it is https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08ZC7HS75

[midnight mural]

I’m excited for this tool for SDR stuff, and now Meshtastic.

[glossy pine]

I gottaaaa cavity filter woohoo but now waiting for the adapter I forgot to get

[jaunty harness]

hahaha classic "project" move

[rare sparrow]

👀

[normal osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/pineapple-express-craig-robinson-matheson-i-seent-it-gif-5293998

[winged walrus]

That was me. And I was pointing out that there isn't enough coverage for only 3 hops

If you live in Manhattan or downtown Brooklyn or Williamsburg and you're high up then maybe you've got good coverage but most of us don't

Am I missing something?

[daring moth]

If everyone sets their nodes to at or slightly below seven hops, the mesh will get overwhelmed with traffic very quickly.

[winged walrus]

What if most of nodes that I'm seeing are over 3 hops?

[cerulean thorn]

not sure what hop counts people used at defcon last year but it was damn stable

my problem is i have a 8dbi gain antenna so i can hear people but they cant hear me

[normal osprey]

Idk their hop limit (maybe 2) but they were on Short Fast. The success of Short Fast at defcon with 400+ nodes is one of the reasons we’re using Short Fast at EDC Las Vegas this year.

[cerulean thorn]

this year should be shortturbo

[daring moth]

Are you in a suburban area?

[cerulean thorn]

actually LF was pretty dead even during HOPE last summer

[winged walrus]

I'm in south Brooklyn. Like south south

[cerulean thorn]

and i had a node on the roof deck parking lot

[rare sparrow]

I'm in Bay Ridge I can still see decent amount of nodes

GrandSt, Hops are all direct to me

[winged walrus]

Yeah, and by you there's a line of nodes going north following the coast but do you see nodes in Manhattan or Queens?

[daring moth]

I thought GrandSt is in downtown Manhattan?

[cerulean thorn]

thats in williamsburg as well

[rare sparrow]

unless there's a tower node, i don't think you can reach queens that easily

[normal osprey]

no, GrandSt node is in Manhattan

[winged walrus]

I can see Queens nodes

[cerulean thorn]

grand st exists in both manhattan and brooklyn

[normal osprey]

Grand St (the street) does exist in both but the node named GrandSt is in Manhattan.

[winged walrus]

Ah, I'm guessing your window faces northeast?

And you're close to the shore?

And not on the ground floor?

[rare sparrow]

nope

[normal osprey]

GrandSt is the node I can consistently trace route there and back directly. I can actually see my building directly in the pics gardner posted of the node, so i know for a fact it’s in Manhattan.

[rare sparrow]

2nd floor window

[rare sparrow]

351e must have a great position

[daring moth]

I'm pretty sure that's one of @gardener2549's nodes that they deployed at NYC Mesh's locations. The only NYC Mesh locations with the word "Grand" in their name is in downtown Manhattan: https://map.nycmesh.net/

[rare sparrow]

Vernon is also from NYC Mesh i assume

[normal osprey]

it’s in manhattan. he posted pics of the node when he installed it.

[daring moth]

I'm pretty sure.

[winged walrus]

I'm not even sure how many hops away the Grand Street node is for me. It's showing up as a question mark

Just did a traceroute. It's 3 hops away

[normal osprey]

GrandSt is the only node I can hit directly there and back every single time.

[daring moth]

The question mark usually means a node in the loop is running extremely old firmware.

[rare sparrow]

You are 5 hops away from me btw

[winged walrus]

Yeah, exactly. That's why I'm using 7 hops because the city has deadzones that can't be covered with only 3 hops

Like you're in Bay Ridge and I'm in Coney so we're technically really close but not via the mesh

[daring moth]

The thing is, if you're exhausting all seven hops and trying to communicate with someone running with less hops, you won't receive their messages.

[winged walrus]

I know. That's why I was complaining about the claim that 3 hops are all one needs since all of NYC has coverage

Since most of NYC is comprised of dead zones that need the extra hops to bridge them

[normal osprey]

Who claimed you only need 3 hops because all of NYC has coverage?

The running joke in here is that NYC is notoriously difficult to cover so we don’t have a solid mesh yet.

[winged walrus]

This is the link that caused me to complain:

https://meshny.github.io/

[normal osprey]

but hop counts won’t resolve your issue. it’ll likely make the mesh worse for lots of people.

[winged walrus]

do not set your hops to 7!

the default of 3 should be sufficent in a healthy mesh. 4 or 5 if running CLIENT_MUTE and/or having particular difficulties but with such a small and densely packed geographic area you are quite likely to have those higher hopped packets leave the Metro area and end up rebroadcasted over 100 miles away! this prevents the reverse of the effect we occassionally encounter where Meshes in North PA or CT will show up on the Mesh in NYC, even though they’re >75miles away, because they’re running 7 hops

[winged walrus]

Why? It's working relatively fine. If UNO's messages are taking 5 hops to reach me and they're only 3-5 miles away then 3 hops is way too low

[normal osprey]

that doesn’t say 3 hops is sufficient because we have full coverage to all of NYC. it explains why higher hop counts don’t solve the problem.

[winged walrus]

It says "small and densely packed area" which would only describe Manhattan and not the rest of the boroughs

Like what would be a good tradeoff?

5?

[daring moth]

IIUC, due to the way the managed flood routing in Meshtastic works (https://meshtastic.org/docs/overview/mesh-algo/#broadcasts-using-managed-flooding), nodes running near ground level get prioritized over high elevation nodes. I might've misinterpreted the article, but if my understanding is correct, I think we should add a note on https://meshny.github.io/ to prefer CLIENT_MUTE unless your node's elevation is near the top of the average building height in your area. I wonder if that's why the mesh requires so many hops in certain areas.

[normal osprey]

I believe the sentiment was that 3 hops are sufficient in a healthy mesh… so rather than increase hop limits, let’s work towards building a healthy mesh.

[rare sparrow]

ROOF ACCESS

[winged walrus]

I guess I should ask this as well:

With the current amount of traffic, is there really a big strain on the network if people in NYC set their hop count to 7? I can see it being a big issue if we had lots of traffic and a lot more nodes but right now it's almost a semi-permanent state of radio silence

[daring moth]

You don't want a fully saturated mesh network, as having a high Channel Utilization increases the chances of packet collisions.

[winged walrus]

Yup, that's a lot more nodes than what I'm seeing but even then is there a lot of traffic?

[normal osprey]

Every time I come home, there’s like 20 messages waiting for me. We do have lots of nodes and traffic.

[winged walrus]

Are you in Manhattan or high up somewhere?

[rare sparrow]

We need more nodes in this trangle 😉

[winged walrus]

Because I get like 5 messages a day on a good day

[midnight mural]

I have a shit time in midtown man

[jaunty harness]

text messages are but one of many packet types that meshtastic sends, others include telemetry (how we can see battery % of others) and position (for those with position enabled) - just because you're not seeing messages in LongFast doesn't mean there's not constant traffic passeed around the mesh

[rare sparrow]

I get 0 messages at work 😦

my building is not tall enough

[winged walrus]

Yes, the telemetry data is coming through but is it putting a strain on the network? Until the dead zones get bridged, 3 hops seems like too little

[normal osprey]

Yes, I am fortunate to be on a high floor at Domino Park facing Manhattan. Not really trying to continue debating this, just pointing out that increasing hop counts won’t solve your problem. We literally need to (and are working on) building out a healthier mesh. i’ll leave it at that.

[winged walrus]

I'm not really arguing. I'm just saying that until we get more nodes, having everybody be at 3 makes interaction worse

[midnight mural]

I’m going to Central park, gonna blast some packets on MF

[winged walrus]

I just read up on client_mute. If people enable it, it will cut off a lot of people who don't have line of sight to the tall nodes

[daring moth]

Yeah, I guess we need to experiment and create specific guidelines on how close to ground level you should be to consider switching to CLIENT_MUTE. I don't think it's a good idea to be on CLIENT when walking outside or riding a bike at ground level.

[normal osprey]

I know you’re not arguing but I think your understanding of hop counts isn’t right. You’re recommending a setting that is not advised for a problem that doesn’t exist for most of us (and hop counts won’t resolve anyway).

If you really wanna know why increasing hop counts isn’t the solution, might be better to ask on #help or #general

[winged walrus]

It's not an either-or situation. It's not either 3 or 7. I'm finding a lot of requests to make 5 the default hop count since most places aren't populated evenly. At Defcon last year most people were on 3 hops

And that worked for a very close geographic area. But at Shmoocon that wouldn't work since there wasn't enough coverage outside of the con area.

[twin root]

No, it makes the mesh usable. We don't have enough bandwidth to handle anything above three hops. When you crank your hops to three, you're just propagating out your own node info and in the process causing 2^n more traffic than everybody else.

[rare sparrow]

good read, also the video explained the edge routing pretty well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v6UbC5blJU

[twin root]

If everyone had their hops cranked to 6 our channel utilization would go above 25% which it's dangerously close to, and anything above 25% you're no longer guaranteed to receive messages because your radio can only transmit or receive at the same time.

[twin root]

It's not all that we need, it's all that can be physically supported. Anything above that literally ruins it for you and everybody else by increasing channel utilization. You decrease the number of messages and reliability of the mesh, including to you, while simultaneously prioritizing your packets over everybody else's. What is the point of the mesh if you were the only one who's able to send packets and not receive.

[twin root]

The problem is not the number of hops it is the number of nodes and their locations, which can be solutioned. What can't be? The finite bandwidth we have

It has been proposed and it potentially will be included in firmware that non-encrypted primary channels will not allow above three hops, which will be great for everyone. Somebody wants to run seven hops on a private network go ahead.

[winged walrus]

The problem I was referring to was somebody who is around 4 miles away from me needing 5 hops to reach me. I understand concerns about bandwidth and stuff. I'm just asking if 3 hops is the best number for it with the current deadzones

[twin root]

Ideally we would have unlimited bandwidth and we could all have infinite hops, but we only have a finite amount. Yes, more hops is better in this scenario.

But unfortunately your range is limited by the limitations of where your radio is in relation to other radios, and also how many other radios are out there. We're just kind of having to deal with this limit of bandwidth, and three hops is optimal.

Also the mesh expands everyday. 1 year ago there was less than 25% of the amount of nodes there are now, as time goes on people will put up devices in better positions which will allow you to connect farther and farther

[midnight mural]

So if you have a t1e….client mute?

Usually on the ground with those

[winged walrus]

Oh yeah, this is extremely true. I couldn't reach a single node forever and then I guess people in the area got some nodes and it bridged us all

[midnight mural]

Highlight of my day. I was inside my apt, temporary roof node was up and I had my t1e with me. MediumFast

[winged walrus]

Wait, are we switching to mediumfast?

[midnight mural]

I think I got the admin key stuff backwards, or it never saved. Gonna try that again, nothing in Central Park. I get node updates from my temp roof node, but not acks

I’m on MF because I’m in a dead zone up here in midtown

I’ve got nothing to loose

[rare sparrow]

just small amount of people trying it out

[winged walrus]

Hmm, I'll update my firmware tonight and bring my hop count down to 3 since I can talk to you all on here

[midnight mural]

I have noticed DMs are pretty fast to myself

[rare sparrow]

cause our LongFast is pretty congested

[jaunty harness]

yeah some of us with extra nodes are giving it a shot, it's 100% the vintage LongFast experience of seeing no nodes 😄

[cerulean thorn]

Signal seems way too good

[jaunty harness]

yeah that node is older firmware and something else with older firmware inbetween likely relayed causing the funky reading

[cerulean thorn]

Ah

[jaunty harness]

that's one of Ray's, he's got plans to upgrade both that and 001 but they're apparently difficult to access

I miss him saying hi to new people on the mesh and our messages never working, still see his carry node though so he's still around (and in this channel)

[cerulean thorn]

Used to chat often on LF but it's gotten silent

[midnight mural]

Seems like we are starting to make good progress on what others have started

[jaunty harness]

hrmm i see the opposite, way more going on lately than the random "test" + "ack"s of even a few months ago

[midnight mural]

That’s what I’m saying. There is some momentum going

I’m going to visit my temp roof node and see if I can get the admin keys straight. I think I did I backwards or didn’t save. I did that on my computer to copy/paste

[jaunty harness]

one getting controlled gets the adminkey, which is the publickey from the one you want to control from

[midnight mural]

Yeah, I get it, it doesn’t work, so I have to go check to see what’s up. I’ll report back 🙃

Didn’t save….sigh

[jaunty harness]

The iOS app can be silly about that sometimes, should have caveated that

[midnight mural]

I did this in chrome over usb

Oh well, it’s there

Do I need to enable managed mode?

[jaunty harness]

OH well shit, clearly you weren’t pizzaed up

Nonono managed mode bad

[midnight mural]

Serial console is the only android app setting on

[jaunty harness]

Basically we’ll lock it down so can ONLY be controlled by remote admin, which is cool and useful but not for your use

[midnight mural]

Sweet, gonna go back downstairs and, uh, ummm, admin my node

[jaunty harness]

Haha

[midnight mural]

Thanks @jaunty harness for the help

[jaunty harness]

Yeah it’s for like if you set up a node public enough someone might yoink, or you’re going for ultra power efficiency for a very remote infra node

Otherwise it just makes it so you have to wipe and reflash to make useable if remote admin breaks cause you can’t access over bt/network to flip off

[midnight mural]

Word

We have a winner 🍕

This is pretty neat

All over MF btw 😎

[jaunty harness]

something a little funky w/iOS remote admin last I tried was I'd switch to the remote node and then go into a setting but it'd say something like it doesn't authorization and so exit the setting and go right back in and the warning was gone and it'd would work as expected

[midnight mural]

I know complaining and not doing anything about doesn’t help, but both apps need help, the iOS more, but both need some volunteer work done.

[rare sparrow]

Time to learn Swift 🥳

[midnight mural]

Haha!

I’m working on other computer projects.

I wish I had time to do it all

[jaunty harness]

that's why you should just focus on the time travel project, plenty of time once its finished

[midnight mural]

Great Scott, Marty!

[abstract iron]

I'll have my MF and LF nodes at work today. if there's few enough people lurking around I'll try to put them in good locations

bird misses the node

[rare sparrow]

where’s my food 😭

[abstract iron]

Haqer if you're wfh today I could try a MF LOS to you from Manhattan in about 20-30

[cerulean thorn]

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc1149

[normal osprey]

Not WFH today but my Med Fast T-Echo will be in my window if you wanna try to hit it.

[glossy pine]

Medium fast sucks why are we abandoning all our momentum again

[cerulean thorn]

i want to build a 2 or 3 radio box to put up on my mast

[abstract iron]

word prob in about 10

xam you wfh? I'll move both nodes over to face east for a bit

[normal osprey]

haven’t left fr the gym yet so might be home for another ~30 mins

[abstract iron]

pizza somehow your node already fell off my nodedb on mf

[normal osprey]

not abandoning, just testing. the thought of starting a new mesh without all the nodes on older fw or incorrect roles… sounds tempting.

all this is aside from the fact that meshtastic recommends faster radio presets than LF for mesh over 60 nodes.

[glossy pine]

Na na I know all the theoretical reasons but the actual thing goes from useful to nothing at all

[abstract iron]

well I guess we can run mf as a tryout and keep lf

[normal osprey]

That’s if you consider LF 20 useful right now. Our mesh actually sucks compared to cities like Austin. Obviously they have favorable terrain but still.

[glossy pine]

From a social engineering perspective it’s devastating bc all the cultural momentum and fleshing out of the network is on lf by lots of people

I have great coverage in my neighborhood and can reach the friends I started doing this with now

[cerulean thorn]

We should coordinate with the jersey people as well? I mean technically I'm Jersey but all my contacts have been NYC. NER0 was the first person I actually talked to

[abstract iron]

heading building-east to point at BK in a min

[cerulean thorn]

There we some nodes in garwood but I haven't seen em in ages

[normal osprey]

We should and likely will once we get past this initial random testing phase we’re in 😂

i can see clear across manhattan into Jersey so have lots of nodes in my list there

[cerulean thorn]

I want to have MF and LF at least up on my mast

But you know I don't want to pay 175 percent more ATM

[normal osprey]

I think LF 20 will never run as well as an intentional mesh because anyone who buys and turns on a node is automatically on LF 20… so it’s setup for failure.

We’re always gonna have people at 20 ft elevation who think they should use the ROUTER role 😂

we should have some nodes left on LF 20 and auto messaging telling people to move to whatever preset/slot NY mesh ends up on

[cerulean thorn]

Why would we use a non default slot

It's hard enough as is to use

[abstract iron]

spamming MF with a Muzi

[normal osprey]

We would likely use the default slot… on a non-default radio preset.

but to answer your question, so we have better control over the mesh

[glossy pine]

There’s some ignorant actors but so much helpful rebroadcasting by the many new and random drop ins

[normal osprey]

i’d imagine all of those random nodes would stay on LF 20 and we’ll constantly have new nodes come up on the default settings.

Also, it’s not decided if anyone is actually moving to a different preset. we’re just testing based on meshtastic’s recommendations and success stories of Austin and New Zealand.

[cerulean thorn]

Yeah true

The MQTT change really fucked shit and pissed me off

[abstract iron]

haq check dm plz

[normal osprey]

nothing so far on my medium fast node

[cerulean thorn]

Been meaning to automate patching out the change

[normal osprey]

what MQTT change? i’ve never used MQTT and am actually quite anti-MQTT when it comes to meshtastic

[abstract iron]

yah i mean discord DM

[cerulean thorn]

The do not MQTT flag

[abstract iron]

god my work windows must have 160 dB loss

[cerulean thorn]

It's good until we get critical mass

[abstract iron]

😂🤦‍♂️

anyone for long slow

[cerulean thorn]

We had a mesh vpn on NYC mesh until it expanded

Actually we have a talk

Old as hell tho

APRS uses the internet. Meshtastic really isn't much different

i prefer RF but we need to be real here...

[normal osprey]

I understand the use case for MQTT to connect different meshes together but I personally don’t want my nodes internet connected, especially since my main use case is music festivals.

[cerulean thorn]

if you use your own PSK why does it matter

music festival would be a mobile use. i'm thinking more like backbone nodes

[normal osprey]

I’m not worried about encryption. If we wanna chat over the internet, we could just do it here? or any other internet chat platform?

I guess I like the idea of keeping radios as radios

[cerulean thorn]

so you'd be against a point to point wifi link to connect 2 nodes?

that's all RF

[normal osprey]

i’m not against it, just don’t wanna do it myself. other people are welcome to add internet into the mix.

[cerulean thorn]

point to point wifi would not be internet

2 yagis pointed at each other

[normal osprey]

makes sense but i’m also not a radio guy or HAM. meshtastic is my first foray into this stuff.

[cerulean thorn]

i should explore places in watchung to install a rogue node

up in the moutains

or make a friend at one of these houses on the top of the mountain

i'm a ham, but dont talk to hams

a lot dont agree with my views lol

also i'm just not trying to argue, just look at the other angles

i want this to work so bad

2015 nycmesh https://livestream.com/internetsociety/radicalnetworks/videos/102833124

and a self dox bc whatever: https://radicalnetworks.org/archives/2015/speakers/dan-grinkevich/

the tinc vpn really jump started everything

[abstract iron]

if anyone works with DOB can you tell us when there's a lull in local law 11 permits 😸

f+$_+$-#+ roof

[cerulean thorn]

lol

the stuff my building never fixed

only made it look nice