US - Utah

[ember torrent]

Where is our Rose Park person?

[keen glen]

It probably would

[wet galleon]

LPTop has been addes to Freq51

As client role

Will swap to router when i replace antenna and move to the new ridge

[prisma saddle]

NIcE! lets see how we are looking now

[wheat kestrel]

Hello it me

[obsidian storm]

Do you have a filter?

This bandpass filter would be really nice

https://gpio.com/collections/filters/products/915-mhz-ism-band-pass-bandpass-filter-with-26-mhz-bandwidth

[ember torrent]

I have a spare Harbor Breeze Hack panel if you have a radio, eg rak19003.

https://discord.com/channels/867578229534359593/1198011215025283124

[wheat kestrel]

I do actually have a spare wisblock starter kit that I could throw in one of those

it's in a cardboard box node in my window rn

[ember torrent]

Up to you.
1.) these panels will get to 140F in the summer. High for the battery.
2.) what i get out of this, maybe a better connection into SLC.

[wheat kestrel]

that is pretty toasty, I could slap it on my roof for the winter and maybe get it even higher in a big tree in my yard next summer? I'd be happy to put it up there

I'm about a block to the NW of the smiths on 600N

I'd get better signal at home too

[wet galleon]

I dont have a filter, no.
My only problem with that is I would have to design and print a whole new enclosure for it

[ember torrent]

Up to you mate. They do sale 23’ telescoping poles at Home Depot. If you like the node, more batteries are probably needed.

[inner jay]

TANO has one of these now

[leaden crow]

Do you have pictures of the inside of your enclosure? You might be able to fit one of these. It's not much larger than a regular ipex pigtail.
#1197577977781821541 message

[real cedar]

Anyone have an SLS printer

I suddenly have a new mach 7 detonating bumblebee idea
https://youtu.be/UShD03eG9IU?si=UtMoD2iEvak1egGg

[prisma saddle]

All those at EM/Eagle Mountain. can you see the network a bit better wondering if LPTop is your lifeline now.. @keen glen

[leaden crow]

I haven't priced them in a long time, but Shapeways seemed pretty resonable to me. I bet JLC3DP and PCBWay are even less exensive.

[prisma saddle]

even thought it might be moved.

[real cedar]

Export restrictions might run into a problem if I give them a 3D printed detonating engine

Need to source my own

🤣

[leaden crow]

Dude, you remember when Silkroad was shipping in disassembled RPGs? I'm sure you could find a way.

[real cedar]

I've got a better idea I should give Uncle Sammy a pitch

Maybe they will fund it for me

😆

Let me keep a few copies

[leaden crow]

Maybe that never actually happened.

"Reports of illegal weapons for sale on the dark web marketplace Silk Road, including firearms, circulated during its operation. Federal prosecutors charged vendors with selling guns and other contraband on the site. However, the sale of rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) on Silk Road was never confirmed and remains a topic of uncertainty."

Anyway, what I'm saying is that they might not even know what they are printing, especially if it's just a bunch of parts.

[jolly goblet]

Because I just ordered 20 of these, and I know you have some--and maybe others here do too--would it make sense to make a small pcb breakout with sma connectors, perhaps something like GPIO Labs filter boards?

[leaden crow]

You can, but I wouldn't. I read somewhere that every connector in your signal path is like 0.5dB loss. This is my total radio lay-person opinion, but I think soldering it inline in your pigtail is both easier and closer in loss to just having it built into your device PCB.
I would defer to @real cedar but honestly someone would really have to measure it.
I could probably also improve it slightly with a can or foil tape or something. The GPIO labs has an RF can...
It really is pretty easy IMO to spice and solder it on the pigtail. For me maybe even easier than assembling it on a breakout board.

[real cedar]

If you wanted to obtain perfection you could. But there's always going to be a trade-off and everything.

That said a PCB with a ground plane wouldn't be an awful idea for antennas

[jolly goblet]

Ok, good to know. Thanks for your feedback.

[leaden crow]

I didn't think about this. I was think it would be 2 pigtails, but if you can figure out antenna attached directly to filter, that is better.
More difficult to make that sturdy and weatherproof.

[jolly goblet]

I'm not looking for perfection. I'm just thinking about a convenient way to use those filters. But, I now nothing about RF design, except that it is easy to introduce many unintended effects to the system.

[prisma saddle]

5 hops.. dang

[real cedar]

I mean. Best way to do this is draft something up. Send it to me and I'll take a look. We can tweak from there. It's how most of us in the industry go about it

[keen glen]

solar:3 in Eureka is the only direct node I can see with my nebra in the attic (waiting for a good bit of time to get it on the roof)

Actually, technically I can see packets from LAKE every now and then, but only receiving, I can't hit it. I got one ~9hours ago, night seems to propagate those better.

[obsidian storm]

Nice

[leaden crow]

If this gets moved to the ridge north of where it's at now, that may solve your problems. I'm not 100% on what the plan is.

[leaden crow]

@wet galleon If you think this filter pigtail will fit in your enclosure, I will make you one before you head back up there. I need to know the length maybe a couple of other things.

[real cedar]

@umbral ice successfully trace routing to you

Got all of the Idaho node info

Holy shit 137 online

Hahahahahah

[wet galleon]

It wont fit, there is literally 0 extra room in there 🙁

[prisma saddle]

someone in the slc valley wanna do a trace to ace-roof-2 for me?

[leaden crow]

│ 19 │ !44464ace │ ACE2 │ ACE-Roof-2 │

Sending traceroute request to !44464ace on channelIndex:0 (this could take a while)
Route traced towards destination:
!eba4d26b --> !d620d312 (-9.25dB) --> !44464ace (5.75dB)
Route traced back to us:
!44464ace --> !eba4d26b (-3.5dB)

[leaden crow]

That's basically 0 hop for me. The one hop was ACER.
Pretty good -3.5dB outbound from you for ~15 miles away.

[real cedar]

AUR beating stronk as always

Part of me kind of wants to go make a you are a damn nebra and solar power it. But the problem is I think it would get too big for that spot like I'm pretty sure somebody's going to notice me putting a 35 W solar panel out there

The nice thing is it's compact and that's why it's a rak

[haughty moon]

AUR was picking up serious weight when FPR was down

It was my link to the north

[real cedar]

🥳

when we swiching @leaden crow

[leaden crow]

Good question. I was hoping we would have a discussion about this at the hackerspace, but I don't think it will happen this week. At minimum bash is out Thurs.
If SL had the experience you do up North, I would say we switch to MF tomorrow. If it were only me with problems, I would still say we switch. My understanding is that bash had problems reaching POTM on anything but LF/MS. We are both 1 watt nodes. It concerns me others not involved in the test might get totally nerfed.
The only sure thing at this point is that we do need to switch. Pretty much all well positioned nodes are at 25% channel util. right now. IME message delivery is still good, but traceroutes are less reliable than they were even a week ago.

[prisma saddle]

ah cool. put it up as high as i can in the attic. that’s my nebra. @leaden crow i can actually go prob 2 feet higher would be above the rest of the houses near but still in attic. wife won’t let me put holes on the roof. changed her mind. so. .. lol

i’ll change it to client and demote aceR

[leaden crow]

Hard to judge based on one traceroute, I don't think you need it on the roof. Seems to be working well from your attic.

[prisma saddle]

cool i’ll get it at the highest peak and go from there.

[inner jay]

Did everyone redo their keys? Im seeing a lot of "new" nodes I've seen before

[haughty moon]

We have a link into Idaho now, maybe it’s that?

[inner jay]

Some of them are ones that should be in my db already

Like BP1

[leaden crow]

What node is it (hardware wise)? The MCU nodes only have enough memory for 80 node in nodedb, so they start cycling through them anytime a new one is heard.

[inner jay]

RAK

[leaden crow]

That is most likely your problem nrf only holds 80 nodes in memory.

[inner jay]

Huh. Aighty then

[real cedar]

@obsidian storm One more question for the sake of science.. are you directly under the landing flight path for the runways at Salt Lake City international and the runway at the regional airport?.

Secondary radar operates in our spectrum

[real cedar]

That explains so much

[obsidian storm]

yes

[real cedar]

Oh geez

Okay, so what I will say to you is that you're going to experience interference from 800 MHz to 1200 MHz all of the time

But that also doesn't explain dagron's issues

One of the secondary radars for the airport is on the hill near camp Williams.. the other secondary radar is out in the swamp near the new highway they built past legacy

If that wasn't already bad enough. Adsb and uat are definitely going to be things that interfere with you specifically

The transmitter points down not up for obvious reasons on the aircraft

[leaden crow]

So what you're saying is that we definitely need all the link budget we can get because of this noise? 😆

[real cedar]

LOL funny

I wonder if there's something we can do to filter it out for you guys

It would have to be a tight filter and we would have to be a little bit more committed to a certain frequency spectrum

But it's not overly expensive to do

Because you'd only need it for your rooftop node

One of the downsides of living underneath a flight plan is that you have a little less fun with the radio. Even your little experiments get caught really easily because then you interfere with aircraft systems and that immediately gets reported and investigated

It's also what's kind of made me question whether I want to do promontory Point. The airport's Doppler radar is out on promontory secondary Peak

And the last thing I want is a beeline to exactly where our transmitter is

🤣

I want to do a fun experiment. Bash. Get one of your SDRS out. Correlate your SNR with whenever a commercial aircraft passes over and tell me if it dips 😆 .. come on, you know it'd be cool to visualize

[prisma saddle]

no. you need to move. lol

get the baymesh3 filter tuned to exactly 51. 914.625. or how ever close you can….

i dunno. lol

[obsidian storm]

this is annoying

Oct 01 19:35:41 bashNinja-meshtastic meshtasticd[74196]: WARN  | 01:35:37 472 [RadioIf] Can not send yet, busyRx
Oct 01 19:35:41 bashNinja-meshtastic meshtasticd[74196]: INFO  | 01:35:39 474 [Router] Packet History - insert: Reusing slot aged 3.871s TRACE MATCHED PACKET
Oct 01 19:35:41 bashNinja-meshtastic meshtasticd[74196]: WARN  | 01:35:40 475 [Position] Ch. util >25%. Skip send
Oct 01 19:35:41 bashNinja-meshtastic meshtasticd[74196]: WARN  | 01:35:40 475 [RadioIf] Can not send yet, busyRx

[haughty moon]

thats unfortunate

does normal meshtastic do that too?

Also, I am under that same flight path, and do NOT seem to be having issues... atleast not that ive noticed🤞

[real cedar]

Chan util yeah

Welcome to my life

😆

[inner jay]

Well crap

Don't have many issues tho

Although I think someone has MQTT downlink enabled somewhere. I'm getting nodes through MQTT again

[leaden crow]

This is why we need to move off LF. He sees it because he's looking at his meshtasticd logs, but it's happening to everyone right now.

[inner jay]

Any idea who this is? I don't recognize this router and it's supposed to be pretty close to me

[obsidian storm]

you found POTM

[leaden crow]

That is Onaqui

[obsidian storm]

oh, right. that's onaqui

i shoulfd have that memorized by now.

[leaden crow]

It lost it's settings (name) like a year ago.
I don't know that anyone has the will to climb the mountain and fix it. Plus it is still working.

[inner jay]

Where is it? Seems it's back

[leaden crow]

Somewhere here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/g8csKpEA8NByxPNT9

[inner jay]

Wow. Thats a ways out there

Surprised I heard it

[leaden crow]

The further out you get, the less noise. Last summer hacker camp was here:
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KNHEpTKr939thW2R7
And we could message all the way to SLC through @white field nodes
Meshtastic 3805
🦅solar:3
and Onaqui

[jolly goblet]

@real cedar I was frustrated last week during the testing because I couldn't get anything out to the mesh. I've been doing traceroutes now that my roof node is actually on the roof. And AUR appears key to me. It is always my hop out after my roof node. So when it wasn't working during the testing, that explains why I couldn't get messages out.

[haughty moon]

And FPR has been down. So double bad

[real cedar]

We have started to narrow down the issues. It looks like people have good SNR but there are some software problems probably. Because we just had bash do the same test again and he was able to successfully talk to the router

[inner jay]

Oof

[real cedar]

I think that issue is due to us having very few nodes when we were doing our test as well. One of the things that makes our network resilient is the number of noded

[jolly goblet]

Thank you for your work on figuring it out. I appreciate all the work everyone does here.

[real cedar]

Yeah and rest assured aur will not drop your packets and you will be able to talk to it when you're on medium fast

And if you're not, I will extend the same offer to everybody else that I've been extending to the few people that have had issues

I have a lot of spare radios and I will put a client halfway between you and that router and a well-placed manner and make it a strategic piece of infrastructure

I'll just take a day off or I'll do it on a weekend. Whatever I have to do I'll help out. I have a lot of extra radios

[inner jay]

C6 really wants off LF lol

[real cedar]

As for Mount wire, I say go for it but make it a tank

And by tank I mean an absolute fucking tank. Like there's going to be idiots up there and I suggest you paint it that odd Rusty orange color the tower is

[real cedar]

You know it's mostly because I can't really talk on the network by the time I get home and I want to chat. Network utilization is over 30% and almost all of my messages drop

That's not a great experience

[inner jay]

Agreed

[prisma saddle]

Thoughts on something like this? https://a.co/d/haJlFWa

for my roof nebra.

[jolly goblet]

I'm in support of medium fast.
I will likely do something there. I have a friend who is a metal fabricator, so a tank I could do. I'm researching and thinking about ways to protect an antenna and solar panel (without shading it). I might do something less robust in the short term, and take my chances.

[real cedar]

There's not much you can do to protect protruding surfaces other than keep it out of the reach of people on the tower and below the tower

You also preferably want to place it on the tower in a place where a good climber is likely the only person to reach it

I've been out there. I can climb every inch of that Tower but I can tell you the average dude isn't going to be so enthusiastic to do so

[jolly goblet]

Yeah, I was just going to say that everywhere on that tower is pretty accessible.
And I suspect that as it gets toward winter, the risk goes down.

[real cedar]

So really it's about social engineering here. You paint it. You put a sticker on it that says it's something cool and publicly monitored. You put a big lock on it. You secure the antenna properly.

One of the things I would do is completely coat the entire base of the antenna protrusion in lexel. It makes it a little bit more difficult to tamper with not impossible but difficult

For the solar panel, you just need to make a really beefy Mount. I would weld up something strong

And I would make sure that that is welded to the metal case of the node

Just don't make any of it removable or easily serviceable. That's a pain for you when you want to mess with it but it's insurance

Have you ran a heywhatsthat survey for the site and height? Do that first so that you know which mode you're going to operate it in which will likely be client

[jolly goblet]

I have. And it looks good.

[real cedar]

Could you post the link

[jolly goblet]

How do I share that? Just the URL?

[real cedar]

Yes

[jolly goblet]

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=M1CINX77

[real cedar]

Okay that definitely has to be a client

It has sporadic ground coverage

[jolly goblet]

Ok

[real cedar]

It's a great supplement

I keep saying it. Lots of clients that are strategically placed helps a ton. A lot more than one well-placed router

We really only coordinate router placements so if y'all just want to go out and spam clients in good spots I'm totally chill with it

[jolly goblet]

Good to know. I don't want to step on anyone's toes.

[real cedar]

Don't worry about that. It's one big experiment. Router modes are the only ones that require some coordination. But what I would do if I were you is if it's a client node that you're going to use as infrastructure like this, I would name it something unique or I would flip the switch in the 2.6.11 firmware that makes it an unattended node

That way nobody can sit there and spam the client

[inner jay]

Spam as in DM it?

[jolly goblet]

That HeyWhatsThat link didn't go to Mt. Wire. Rather, it was the one for the VA that someone else posted earlier.

Here is the correct link: https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=N2DTPHX7

[real cedar]

yes

its not too hard to take down a router by spamming it

same goes for cliens

[real cedar]

as much as I hate to say it. Still client

It sees AUR

and AUR is the RL

it will also see stansbury when someone puts a node out there

which will be RL

too many RLs in close proxmity can cause issues

that and im turbo concerned with it getting vandalized or deleted lol

very popular spot

[haughty moon]

did someone say turbo?

lmao

[real cedar]

who wants to go do stansbury?

[haughty moon]

I can do it I guess

just gathering parts

[real cedar]

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=VDXPR5NE

[haughty moon]

what battery and antenna should i do? I have a couple Alphas

[real cedar]

Use the alfas you have on hand

Batteries 2-4 18650s or 21700s

a rak will be fine

[real cedar]

so let me demystify how we tend to plan
If its above 8000 ft with exceptional LOS of an exremely wide area not just a populated area.. Router
If its between 5500 and 7000 ft and has LOS to two distinct but completely seperate and disconnected geographical areas.. Router Late
If its anywhere below 7500 ft but doesnt have great LOS or is limited to a populated area like a ciy bowl.. and there exists more than 1 router servicing the same area and within LOS of the location.. Clientt

clear as mud?

😂

[haughty moon]

Oh stansbury island, i was thinking peak

There are zero trees or cover lol

[inner jay]

Problem with stansbury is they have a lot of raves out there. Wandering hands and all that

[obsidian storm]

UPS your poe injector instead:
https://www.amazon.com/GOLDENMATE-Protector-Sinewave-Pro-Communication/dp/B0DTYHCVF6/

[haughty moon]

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=WM3RWGGI

[prisma saddle]

which would use less energy? or last longer i mean? and why the injector?

and dang that’s a lot of $$ just for poe ups lol

[leaden crow]

Look what I just noticed
#antennas message

[prisma saddle]

hmm this have insertion loss?

a lot?

[leaden crow]

It's a breakout board for the Murata filters. Their spec sheet only lists a "Max" value for insertion loss, and it's like 2.5dB. When I measured mine, the loss was only 1.0dB
BUT I barely know what I am doing with the NanoVNA. I mostly learned from youtube. It could be totally wrong.
I would ask wehooper, he might have tested his boards, and I would trust his measurement more than mine.

[real cedar]

No that sounds about right. So often the maximum possible insertion loss is what's quoted across the band but it's not uniform. It never is uniform

Some areas you'll have much lower insertion loss and others. You'll go up to the maximum and that could just be a few megahertz away

Most filters are pretty flat when you talk about band pass filters, but there are areas where you'll get minimas and maximas

The cost of a band pass filter often goes up with its rejection ratio outside of band and how sharp the roll-off is

A very flat very sharp roll-off high out of band rejection filter is going to be very expensive

Whereas a soft roll-off is not nearly going to be as expensive. But it's not going to have as desirable of characteristics as out of band can leak in on the edges

[jolly goblet]

Sorry, I was away. Client is totally fine--and I was not angling for anything different. When you wrote that there was "sporadic ground coverage" I thought I must be interpreting the results incorrectly, because I'm new to heywhatsthat. That was when I realized I sent the wrong link.

[jolly goblet]

And, as a client, and not a vital part of the network, I am am not so concerned if it gets vandalized or deleted. I'm willing to accept the risk of loss--all part of the experiment, right. Plus, then there would be the opportunity for v2, v3....

[real cedar]

LOL then by all means. Make it so number 1

[jolly goblet]

Whoa, nice find! Too bad it uses u.fl connectors rather than sma. But, if it is already done (if done well) then that's worth a lot, IMO.

[real cedar]

This is something I'm actually wishing that all of the transmitters came with. I really don't know why they had to go U.FL

Those connectors are fragile, easy to bend and once they're bent, you get mismatches

Sma is fine and compact enough

I'm not talking about his filters. By the way, I'm talking about the devices we buy

[inner jay]

Do we have a planned date for the cutover to MF?

[leaden crow]

We're going to discuss it tonight at the hackerspace. I propose we do it this weekend, but we'll see if anyone else thinks we need to give more of a heads up.

[haughty moon]

I say we just have the repeaters spam out the info, like the freq51 website and the link to the discord. That should be good enough?

[leaden crow]

Yeah, we can even leave some nodes behind on LF51 for a while sending messages after the switch has happened.

[haughty moon]

That too I have a few extras

[inner jay]

Same

[prisma saddle]

I think if you dont have extras, your doing it wrong. 🙂

[reef ridge]

Went from 1 radio to 8 in a short amount of time, how did this happen? 😂

[prisma saddle]

"science" got the best of me

[keen glen]

Mesh Math

[prisma saddle]

So weird, i cannot get lptop to show up on my nebra. does on all other nodes.

and its not ignored.. hmm

yet others can trace it and it will hop though nebra.

[reef ridge]

Won't exchange node info?

I don't think that command has ever worked for me, actually.

[prisma saddle]

it cant even seen it. at least wont pop in node list, yet on my inside node here i can see it just had nodeinfo broadcast hit it. so dunno

i see its info in the node logs. but not in the list. weird

weird, reset nodedb.. and there it is.

[real cedar]

@umbral ice @reef ridge @obsidian storm @leaden crow and all other BBS interested folks

Looking at meshing arounds code I think it's best we all run BBS software on our pi nodes at home. Link them because this is how it works best

def bbs_sync_posts(input, peerNode, RxNode):

    messageID =  0

 

    # check if the bbs link is enabled

    if bbs_link_whitelist != ['']:

        if str(peerNode) not in bbs_link_whitelist:

            logger.warning(f"System: BBS Link is disabled for node {peerNode}.")

            return "System: BBS Link is disabled for your node."

    if bbs_link_enabled == False:

        return "System: BBS Link is disabled."

   

    # respond when another bot asks for the bbs posts to sync

    if "bbslink" in input.lower():

        if "$" in input and "#" in input:

            #store the message

            subject = input.split("$")[1].split("#")[0]

            body = input.split("#")[1]

            bbs_post_message(subject, body, peerNode)

            messageID = input.split(" ")[1]

            return f"bbsack {messageID}"

    elif "bbsack" in input.lower():

        # increment the messageID

        if len(input.split(" ")) > 1:

            try:

                messageID = int(input.split(" ")[1]) + 1

            except:

                return "link error"

        else:

            return "link error"

 

    # send message with delay to keep chutil happy

    if messageID < len(bbs_messages):

        logger.debug(f"System: Sending bbslink message {messageID} to peer " + str(peerNode))

        time.sleep(5 + responseDelay)

        # every 5 messages add extra delay

        if messageID % 5 == 0:

            time.sleep(10 + responseDelay)

        return f"bbslink {messageID} ${bbs_messages[messageID][1]} #{bbs_messages[messageID][2]}"

    else:

        logger.debug("System: bbslink sync complete with peer " + str(peerNode))

That's just an excerpt of BBS link

Basically we post to a dm message board or a public message board topic.

Each BBS then replicates using BBS link by sending a brand new packet called a sync packet which uses the link packet to know which it can see

The more of us running it. The more reliable. It's already designed to mitigate ch util issues

The link sends a heartbeat/sync packet once an hour

We really should get this software going as a whole. I can try and work on the spaces stuff to get it going

[umbral ice]

I can get mine up at home and then an RPI at our space as soon as I can

[reef ridge]

So having a BBS on the routers and on the ground is beneficial?

[prisma saddle]

done. highest possible point in the attic.

@leaden crow saw your trace. any better results?

[leaden crow]

I'll check

[leaden crow]

I accidentally had contact running, I'll run it again.

[jolly goblet]

What is the node's name?

[leaden crow]

I'll try again with debug. I think my channel util. is too high right now and traceroutes getting dropped.

Third time is a charm.
Route traced towards destination:
!eba4d26b --> !44464ace (-1.25dB)
Route traced back to us:
!44464ace --> !eba4d26b (2.5dB)

[leaden crow]

ACER, ACE-Roof

[leaden crow]

That is as high of SNR as I get anywhere (other that my own local nodes). I think it works pretty amazing from inside your attic.

[inner jay]

I got a key mismatch on acer. Gonna wait for it to repopulate

[jolly goblet]

I got you 3 hops there: mmnR-->AUR-->FPR-->GtsHome-->ACE-Roof. Then 0 hops (lol) back. (-5.75dB).

[obsidian storm]

yeah, 1W nodes scream

[prisma saddle]

SWEET!

about time i get something.. legit. lol

[prisma saddle]

thank you!

[prisma saddle]

thanks

now i get to be all itchy the rest of the day. worth it!

[jolly goblet]

And I'm up by the zoo.

[jolly goblet]

At least its October. I avoid my attic, if possible, between spring and fall equinox. I start sweating just thinking about going up there.

[prisma saddle]

ya 140+ is not fun.. need to put some cealing mount lights in sometime... waiting for fall

hah CPU temp : 65 °C / 149 °F :

my nebra might catch on fire... will see

[leaden crow]

It's funny our valley traces are hopping through FPR

[obsidian storm]

NPR needs help

[prisma saddle]

ha ha ya i just did a trace, was direct to lake, then went through fpr back

[obsidian storm]

Direct to lake?

really?

from your location, that doesn't seem right.

[prisma saddle]

agreed. gonna try again

[obsidian storm]

the android app has traceroute logs

[prisma saddle]

more realistic .

malla logged it weird..

[novel spruce]

Gotta say how cool this

[keen glen]

I'm in Lehi with my T-1000E, and wow are there way more nodes popping up in the app here 😂

[prisma saddle]

@obsidian storm wats going on with yours and potm?

this expains why i cant get anyting out of potm .

[prisma saddle]

def need something above cedar fort 🙁

[obsidian storm]

Are you seeing it on LF?

[prisma saddle]

oh is it not?

oh its on MF.. that explains it.

🙂 nvm then ha ha

[obsidian storm]

Yeah. I've got them both on MF and I'm testing SNR for 24hrs.

[prisma saddle]

RGR that

[obsidian storm]

that's why you're not talking out POTM 😄

[prisma saddle]

exactly ha ha

[obsidian storm]

hilarious the ninja doesn't render

do you have something listening on MF?

[prisma saddle]

nope just your malla

[obsidian storm]

ah yes.

[prisma saddle]

i have my malla on LF

[prisma saddle]

yuup thats all i see lol

bash and potm getting jiggy with it

[obsidian storm]

a TR every 15min

for24hrs

[leaden crow]

How's it going? That screenshot looks good to me.

[prisma saddle]

https://malla.freq51.net/packets

https://malla.freq51.net/traceroute

[real cedar]

Highest SNR I got was FPR at 13.76 dB

@leaden crow @obsidian storm if we are gonna change over lets have all documentation and the change over complete BEFORE saintcon

I want us to have the bandwidth for their surge

It would also be an AMAZING showcase for our network

[leaden crow]

I'm not going to that, but do you have a plan for temporary nodes for that event? I don't how much stuff you've got built, but I have a couple that could just be turned on and programmed.

[real cedar]

Especially if all the BBS was functional

[real cedar]

I hadn't yet I was gonna discuss that with you today

I have a G2 build being donated

[obsidian storm]

do we know if saintcon has plans for meshtastic anything?

[real cedar]

I'm picking it up tonight before the space

[real cedar]

I'm not sure. I know people have requested it multiple times in the hackerspace discord and I think it's a great idea

We already have a DC801 chat.

Where in Provo is it being held?

I'm assuming UVCC

OF COURSE that's next to a court house. Well that eliminates my idea of putting it in a tree temporarily for the event .. that's the court house parking lot

Okay maybe something compact like a small Xiao or rak node in the trees of the actual parking lot then

Post up the weekend before?

[obsidian storm]

We could put one on the roof of UVCC

[leaden crow]

I should build some magnetic nodes like @acoustic mason
I bet you could find some good spots to just stick them up temporarily.

[real cedar]

Would everyone directly below the antenna be able to hear it?

[obsidian storm]

or just park your car here

and do a car-node

[real cedar]

That works too. I'm not attending but I need to find someone who is for that idea to work

[novel spruce]

As a noob, can I recommend the freq51 site is more explicit with using the main meshtastic frequency slot calculator tool?

[real cedar]

What do you mean?

Trying to figure out why their tool is related to our docs is all

[novel spruce]

You know that, I updated my app and I swear the frequency slot is now there when it wasn't before.

Or maybe I can't read. Probably I'm illiterate

[prisma saddle]

ya not sure what you are referring too i do not see anything on our site relating to that calc tool.

[novel spruce]

I swear, and again maybe I'm dumb, but the app when I first set up this node didn't show a frequency slot option so I used the tool to calculate the override frequency.

It does now though, so disregard me please

[real cedar]

Do not use frequency override. Per our documentation type 51 in the slot

The app does the rest

We can add that to the docs

@obsidian storm @leaden crow see our saintcon channel in the other discord. Ellie is volunteering. I'll get us a node for that

We need to collectively move over early so we can test everything but other than that I think it will mostly be about making it easy.
Bullet list of quick settings
Links to our page

[prisma saddle]

1. clear out primary channel name
2. Make change to MF
3. Reset nodedb.

Profit? What else?

[haughty moon]

Maybe we should have some pictures and/or tables of what user set ups should be

Something to break up the text

Like each important settings page

[prisma saddle]

true. I can do that. can do it for ios/android tablet but cant do it for andriod phone. dont have one of those

[haughty moon]

How different is tab vs phone?

Should be close enough?

[prisma saddle]

mostly the same, just tab buttons on the side instead of bottom

as far as i know.

[real cedar]

Well, let's get everybody's collective brain power on this and try to make it very easy and I really want us to be over to medium fast by then on the entire network

So ideally after we discuss it today amongst ourselves.. I'm thinking next week is a very good candidate. The week after that could be used for testing.. solve some issues and tweak things last minute before the conference on October 21st to 24th

[leaden crow]

I'll be at the space tonight. I'll bring my NanoVNA.

[mighty pike]

sweet, thanks! I'll bring my antenna, at least the one from my porch, identical in theory to the one on my roof

[leaden crow]

If you can, bring them both. Even if they are identical, usually one will measure better than the other. You can choose which node gets the best antenna. When I ordered a dozen of those Ziisor, I binned then.

[mighty pike]

next week I should be able to, or even better, bring the one I intend to replace my roof node antenna with

a rokland antenna

[prisma saddle]

always fun. 126th and banger between 2 buildings. still made it home and back.

ah welcome back potm

[ivory canyon]

@real cedar "Otherwise you'll consume hops KR1P" Is my node unnecessarily consuming hops? I set it to client mode the other day and its been that way since. Is there something else I need to change in its configuration?

[obsidian storm]

No. Client mode is perfect, though when you get your nebra you should try out CLIENT_BASE

and favorite your nodes that will be inside your house.

[ivory canyon]

Cool. Just makin' sure...

[inner jay]

Set CHOP on MF just so it's there

I think I did it right

[real cedar]

Nope your all good

If you want there's a 2.7.11 alpha commit for client base if you wanna have fun experimenting

[prisma saddle]

how many nodes can a g2 hold on it before it cry’s?

[inner jay]

https://tenor.com/view/why-huh-but-why-gif-13199396

[umbral ice]

Mine holds 125

[pseudo kestrel]

Did the T1000e get an upgrade in the last FW update? I can have 150+ nodes in my db now

[mighty pike]

eta 7:30 btw

[prisma saddle]

wow that is quite the hop

[real cedar]

Rofl

[umbral ice]

your phone stores node info, but the t1000e will only show 80 online

or rather the t1000 will only keep 80 in its internal db

[inner jay]

Damn, I need to get a node on my neighbor's tower

[leaden crow]

Does anybody take issue with moving Freq51 to Medium Fast on Sunday, 10/05?

[solemn sedge]

That works for me

[leaden crow]

Most importantly, does anyone need the mesh for RA and can't make the change before then?

[prisma saddle]

sounds awesome.

[prisma saddle]

how did the meeting go? what do you need from me on the site for it? step by step? screenshots of change processes, etc? @real cedar

[real cedar]

Well I'm the new radio officer lol

Also

CHANGE TO MEDIUM FAST PERMANENTLY SUNDAY

Thank you for your attention in this matter

[inner jay]

https://tenor.com/view/band-of-brothers-gif-27205452

[prisma saddle]

radio officer? so your on the board now? 🙂

[umbral ice]

Congrats!(?) lol

[prisma saddle]

you have yourself to blame for that :).

[inner jay]

I suggest posting a step by step so people can follow

Lemme know if I did it right:
Change Lora to MedFast
Clear channel name so it defaults
Reset nodedb

[real cedar]

As soon as the head honcho updates that yes

[prisma saddle]

i’ll let tooele / grants know. not sure they will have anything back to slc until stansberry. i’m sure my dads node can keep them going locally until then.

[prisma saddle]

@real cedar @leaden crow do we think that once layton is a nebra with fpr will reach grantsville on MF or need stansberry to get there?

[real cedar]

There's another plan for that. NPR is going to go high enough on the tower. So it should see grantsville easily. Additionally @final raft Is going to go put a pool up on stansbury Island and get a router late there

[prisma saddle]

farnsworth or actual npr?

[real cedar]

They will when you NPR goes up and when stansbury goes up. But FPR should have no problem crossing that distance

We'll make sure everybody who hasn't had service and all that jazz will have great service on medium fast before the winter

[prisma saddle]

yup all good just making sure i know what info to pass on to them.

[inner jay]

I'll likely swap mine over on sat night

[haughty moon]

@real cedar I think you were tagging the wrong guy. It’s me lol. Also when we switch, it would be a good time to pick a different channel name and encryption key…

[final raft]

@prisma saddle @real cedar You're tagging the wrong person.

[prisma saddle]

lol thanks.

[real cedar]

Oooops

[prisma saddle]

@ivory canyon I see new layton parkway up. hows configuration going?

[prisma saddle]

going through and adjusting all mentions of longfast to medfast for new setups. as well as creating the guide to make the change from LF. @real cedar @leaden crow @obsidian storm

[real cedar]

Thank you sir!

Can you make sure that new users know to set the default channel to blank

To make sure that it changes to medium fast

[prisma saddle]

rgr that

[ember torrent]

@main stag lol, according to the Pins, he about to lose his peace and quiet with yall moving over.

[inner jay]

Yep, definitely putting a node on my brother's roof

[prisma saddle]

anyone here use a andriod phone that has a sec to get me some screenshots?

[keen glen]

I do, what do you need?

[prisma saddle]

dm incoming

[keen glen]

I'm shocked still that I can hit Eureka
The move to MF will likely make my nodes silent until we get something else up by Cedar Fort.

[prisma saddle]

ya 🙁 sorry about that. but ya C6 said the gaps will be filled by winter.. so.. we will see.

[haughty moon]

Do you want to change the channel name and key to get those extra features? I think it would be a good time

[haughty moon]

Looks like we might need something on Lowe or Flat top

[real cedar]

@prisma saddle @leaden crow @obsidian storm @vital hemlock I think we should even if it's just for vanity. Everyone has a primary channel named Freq51 with a key. The key can be found on the website. Nobody should be confused and everyone just configures it

That way it's not just some limited random channel for infrastructure

And we're not limited by any limitations in the firmware in terms of the primary channel

Nor with any of the bots or with the BBS

But I will wait for feedback and input

[prisma saddle]

ok so instead of clearing prim channel / id 0 out. we have them change it to freq51

[real cedar]

It's also an excellent way to make them. Just read the website a bit so they can you know, make sure they are complying with the rules

[real cedar]

And we would have a key that we put on the website

That's the idea but I'm going to wait for input

[haughty moon]

Key could be 1 bit. “51==“

Or some other 2 digit code

[real cedar]

No, just make it 256 bits

[prisma saddle]

rgr that. ill stand by. ive got the guide done will wait for that part.

[real cedar]

🤣

They can copy and paste

[haughty moon]

Does it take extra overhead for longer keys? I haven’t looked into it

[real cedar]

Not really no

If there was everyone's private channels would be taking down the network 😂

I'm pretty sure the extra payload is accounted for in general on all messages, even if you're not using a 256-bit key.

[keen glen]

There's a secondary peak by Flat Top in BLM land that could work.

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=R9WESA5L

[ivory canyon]

Yeah. I put it together and set up an initial config for testing. It's only reachable through my old Layton Parkway node since its hooked up to a dummy load and in the basement.

[prisma saddle]

hmm totally missing potm and maybe lake? or does it see it?

[ivory canyon]

I'm just giving it some, "burn in" time to make sure it will be reliable when I deploy it.

[keen glen]

It might just be able to see lake

[real cedar]

Boulter Peak would be better

Easier to reach

WAIT

Isn't Jacobs eagle node on boulter

The issue with flattop is you don't have much time before the snow

[haughty moon]

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=BVSX78XM
Heres Flat Top a little East

[real cedar]

There's more trees and a radio infra on boulter with lots of trails to get to it

Boulter can see Lake

[prisma saddle]

@keen glen can you see or trace solar:3?

I do not see it in the list currently.

[keen glen]

Yep, I can.

[prisma saddle]

HMm i dont think it sees lake..

[keen glen]

Only direct node I have right now

[prisma saddle]

its more on the backside..

like you are.

[real cedar]

Well it will see new NPR

Wait seriously the tintics don't see lake

Hang on

[prisma saddle]

ya no go for lake on solar 3

[real cedar]

@prisma saddle move C6C on the website to strategic clients
Also big oof

[haughty moon]

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=WM3RWGGI
Thoughts on this instead of Stansbury Island. I feel its too exposed

if thats the case I could also build a node for the Eagle Mtn peeps

[real cedar]

I mean I'm not generally afraid of exposed nodes. Just slap a pole out there.. make it look like it has a real purpose. Most people won't care. That areas mostly for shooting guns anyways

Not a lot of people on Strava to the peak at all

Very low activity

But by all means make a second node for eagle Mountain

It may not have to go all the way to flat top. You may just have to put a router late on the hill

Somewhere I can see both Lake and new POTM

[haughty moon]

We can try it, but ill probably not worry about telem on it then.

Where is POTM, can you DM me if its secret?

[real cedar]

DM bash for the new loc

[real cedar]

Put telemetry on both 😆

I'd be willing to wager actual money that neither of your nodes will ever be messed with

If you install them and make them look pro and legit nobody is going to really think much. I mean if someone was going to care about half the nodes I've put up they would have already taken them down up north

They haven't been messed with

They are exposed and obvious

[haughty moon]

yeah I think ill get some stickers that say "EMERGENCY WEATHER STATION"

seems to be the best path

[real cedar]

You know, something you could do is just buy a cheap fake anemometer and screw it into the top of the plastic casing on stansbury

Literally nobody would even question it at that point

They would just be like oh it's a weather sensor and just leave it alone

It doesn't even have to be a real anemometer

https://a.co/d/0JitN7K

19 bucks. Run the wire in for the sake of the realism

And if you really want to get funny. Although it's questionable to do this. Put a SNOTEL sticker on it

ROFL

[reef ridge]

I modeled mine off of one of those DOT weather stations to make it look "legit".

[real cedar]

Oh my God I am going to go buy a bunch of flange pipes

I think I know how to get the signal up big cottonwood canyon

🤣

I'll paint it brown so it looks like the infrastructure up there

And I'll have to do it when unified PD is not in the canyon which is late at night

[reef ridge]

Not a bad idea, it'd sure make it easy to mount it to the rock.

Speaking of mounting posts to the ground, has anyone tried post fixing compound?

It sure is a lot lighter thanconcrete.

Not sure how well it'd take heavy wind loads.

[real cedar]

😭 lightning just struck Thurston peak

FPRv5 don't get zeused

@reef ridge you see that bad boy. Was loud in layton

[reef ridge]

Everything that could be grounded is, if it's not enough I'm going to throw the whole mountain in the trash. 😂

[real cedar]

😭

5 Nautical mile lightning alert from hill

Still alive though

[reef ridge]

If it dies it dies, then I'll have an excuse to make a fancier one.

[real cedar]

😂

[prisma saddle]

lol

[real cedar]

Francis unfortunately sits in a very active storm corridor haha but it should survive

[reef ridge]

The solution is Mount Ogden. 🤞

[prisma saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/i-will-survive-gloria-gaynor-first-i-was-afraid-i-was-petrified-disco-gif-19769965

[real cedar]

I feel like we should have a lightning protection guide and the first image everyone sees is

[prisma saddle]

draft it up 🙂

Mr radio Director 🙂

lol

ha ha

[prisma saddle]

@real cedar @obsidian storm @leaden crow interesting...

[reef ridge]

I thought about doing this but people told me it was better to have lightning protection equipment on the outside.

I wonder how much it actually matters, because it looks a lot cleaner. 🤔

[prisma saddle]

donno.. and how do you test it lol

[reef ridge]

Become the god of lightning and do some empirical studies. 😂

[haughty moon]

With a metal case I think inside is probably better?

[reef ridge]

I'd think any current induced by lightning would be better routed outside of the protective metal cage. Letting it in seems like asking for trouble.

[prisma saddle]

ya a bit close for comfort..

[reef ridge]

With a plastic case it would be nice inside though, more water ingress protection and it's not like the plastic will help shield anyway. Perhaps an electrical engineer can tell me if I'm being dumb. 🤷

[haughty moon]

Im a EE but I didn’t any high voltage classes lmao

[prisma saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/zeus-thor-love-thunder-omnipotence-city-skirt-stairs-gif-26673057

[haughty moon]

In this case I don’t think it really matters if it’s on the inside or outside. The filtered connection is what matters. And it looks like he grounded the body of the filter anyway

[reef ridge]

Ah, you're right. It's all grounded to the case too.

[real cedar]

The principle is the same. I'm an ee as well. It's down to break down voltage and Eddy currents and induced potential. What do you want to do is you want to minimize the chance of that potential going through the ground plane of your device? You're protecting and rather going around the chassis and having a more conductive path to ground elsewhere. A good ground will also discharge the current faster and minimize impact to the device. But there's nothing you can do against a direct lightning strike

So often what we do. Insights that are outdoors that have electronics on towers is you create a counterposed system by means of driving mini copper rods into the ground around the entire site which increases the conductivity of those areas to the ground versus where your Tower is at. Then you have a centralized ground for the tower. That way if something strikes the tower it has an easy path of ground but isn't going through the electronics. And if something wants to strike the tower, it is more likely to strike the lower impedance of the ground nearby due to the large copper rods

It's all about managing the faraday cage and reducing impedance to ground on your preferred path for lightning to take

A good way to put it for documentation is

When lightning or high voltage surges happen, electricity always takes the easiest path to ground. If your electronics are the easiest path, they can get fried. The goal is to give lightning and surges a better, lower resistance path to the earth so it bypasses your gear. A metal case can act like a Faraday cage, but you still want heavy grounding rods or copper wires outside the box that dump the energy straight into the ground. This way the surge moves around your equipment instead of through it. Think of it like giving the lightning a wide highway into the dirt rather than forcing it to squeeze through your circuit board. You can never stop a direct strike from doing damage, but with proper grounding you reduce the odds that your devices become the chosen path.

[real cedar]

Inside the metal case is smart, but the only way a metal case works is if you isolate the device from the metal case. It's the same principle when you're sitting in a vehicle. If lightning strikes your vehicle and is more likely to travel on the skin effect on the outside of the vehicle than it is to go through you

However, if you are in direct contact with that now you are a bag of conductive saltwater and if you just so happen to be easier to jump through to get to the floorboard you're fucked..

[real cedar]

See you above. It's about minimizing potential and by making your device seem like it's higher impedance to ground versus lower impedance. So if you put a 3D printed mount in the case and then you boxed off the device, it would be far more protected than in direct contact with the chassis

[obsidian storm]

@real cedar Potm 2.0 failed

[real cedar]

What happened

[obsidian storm]

That spot is HEAVILY trafficed

[real cedar]

RIP it's like Mount Wire then

Gotta be a tank. Gotta be deployed at night 😂

[obsidian storm]

It's not even that.

[prisma saddle]

dang 🙁

[obsidian storm]

It's so empty up there. The smallest thing we add will be noticed

[real cedar]

Were there no nearby brush and trees that you could stash it under or around or somewhere just more discreetly? Or was it just completely all low brush and would be way too obvious

I haven't been up there

I've flown over it but I haven't been in it

[obsidian storm]

If we do that, we'll lose all the benefit of the location

All the brushes too far down

And not close enough to the top

[real cedar]

Yeah rip

Too many hippies in that area too

[obsidian storm]

Yes. There were some lady meditating under the tower

[real cedar]

ROFL

Yes because I want to meditate under the giant metal Tower when there's thunderstorms nearby

[obsidian storm]

We thought it was for instagram, but there was no cell phone...

[real cedar]

Darwinism

[reef ridge]

And here I thought hippies were afraid of RF.

[obsidian storm]

Anyways we put it in a different spot

TBH, it kinda sucks

[real cedar]

Well how much does it suck

Did you take a picture

[obsidian storm]

https://maps.app.goo.gl/uFTDsMXwQTb8DEqw7

[real cedar]

Cuz the way I see it putting a client on a hill is useful no matter what

[obsidian storm]

That's the exact coords

[real cedar]

I hate Google

No I'm not going to unblock your stupid firebase google

🤣

[prisma saddle]

cant hoof it over that fence? lol

and toss it there?

:p;

[real cedar]

Someone got GPS for me

[obsidian storm]

40°27'54.9"N 111°51'27.6"W

If I get a chance to move it, here is where I think it should go:

Potential new spot:
40.459422°N 111.861592°W

[prisma saddle]

ah nice even away from flight park and the shadow it causes

[obsidian storm]

But it's up. It's in client mode. It's named alien Tower

[reef ridge]

How did you mount it?

[real cedar]

As it happens it doesn't entirely suck @obsidian storm

As a client it would be useful because of this

So we need to get eagle Mountain covered. There is a very forested spot near cedar ridge

And it would see that device perfectly fine if it couldn't see Lake

Like I said, this is the definition of a strategic client

But yeah if you have a better spot go put it there

[obsidian storm]

Can you test that second spot and see if it's better?

I would rather not hike that if I can avoid it.

My Hope was that the second spot can see AUR or Francis

[real cedar]

Yeah

[prisma saddle]

seems like a good spot to me.

or not as crappy as you think

[real cedar]

Far better

[obsidian storm]

Yep. That's what I thought

[real cedar]

ALSO ALIEN TOWER 🤣

[prisma saddle]

love the name

[obsidian storm]

I'm hoping that it can be a backup in case lake is down

[real cedar]

@obsidian storm I mean why not just go change it now? I thought you were on your way to the OG

[obsidian storm]

I already fixed up the OG

And I'm too tired

[real cedar]

So here's what I suggest you do cuz I'm looking at that spot on Google maps right now and it's right next to a trail. Why not make it look like a legitimate weather station

Even if it's just cosmetic people would believe it and they would leave it alone

A weather station doesn't alarm the hippies

What alarms the hippies is something with a random antenna and a solar panel

[obsidian storm]

That might be a spring thing

[real cedar]

If you put the hardware together, I'll go up on pure pedal power

I'm assuming you found a pole up there or do I need to drag a pole up there too

[obsidian storm]

I put a pole in that spot

But we put it only about a foot deep

And then we leaned it against the rock

[real cedar]

LOOLLLL I mean if you build the hardware rufio and I will just pedal up. Easy morning ride

[obsidian storm]

We did a pretty mediocre job.

But... I bet it will last

And by last I mean last the winter

Not for years

[real cedar]

So a drill auger is your friend

[obsidian storm]

I definitely don't own one of those

[real cedar]

If you own a drill. You can get them off Amazon for cheap

And they will fit the average Chuck

[obsidian storm]

If you want to move it, please please please do

[real cedar]

https://a.co/d/1rEzy4G

[obsidian storm]

I don't want to try disguising it right now

I need to focus on NPR for the next two weeks

I highly suggest you go at night time

This place is super super busy

The potential new spot, not so busy

[real cedar]

I'll see if me and rufio can fit it in the schedule
And we would go late evening on a Sunday. We have trail lights.

Actually we would probably do it at night and just do it on mini bikes where nobody can get us in trouble

[obsidian storm]

If you can, bring some cement

[real cedar]

Wait you put the pole in the ground without cement

[obsidian storm]

Yup

You can literally just pull it out of the ground with your hands

[real cedar]

That's not even lasting 3 days

😆

Oh well I guess we'll find out.

[obsidian storm]

We put it over by the water towers

So that it kind of looks legit

It's a bit off the beaten path there

But... If you want to get it in that better spot , 😉

[real cedar]

Wait there's a water tower

Oh my God

Hold me and rufio's beer

We will climb that bitch

[obsidian storm]

No. It's in the ground

Nothing to climb sorry

[real cedar]

Gay

Infrastructure letting my dreams stay dreams

Anyways I'll see if he gets a moment. We honestly don't mind winter climbs. It won't be until late October when our midterms are over

[obsidian storm]

And dig in the ground?

There probably won't be snow

But boy would it be nice to have a backup to Lake for Saintcon

[leaden crow]

We actually had good crushed rock in the area. We tamped it in with rock and it's sitting in the notch of a large boulder. I don't think it will fall.

[real cedar]

Ice is no match for a drill auger on a battery powered HAMMER drill rofl

Just makes a lot of noise

[leaden crow]

It would actually be fun to poach the trails with mini bikes. It's fire roads to all these hilltops. If I were to do that, I'd do it at night. I was surprised how much trail traffic was in that area during the daytime on a weekday.

[real cedar]

We do it every Monday in various spots

[obsidian storm]

@wicked lintel Alien Tower Fixed you!

[leaden crow]

I think Tapcons would be easier and good enough if you want to attach to rock.

[obsidian storm]

BUT your node is SUPER quiet for a 1W

[reef ridge]

Oh, I meant that for putting nodes down in spots with looser ground types. If there's stone then Tapcons. 💯

[leaden crow]

I need to go back and read all the messages from this morning, I just glazed over it.
Man if we could find posts like POTM has all over the place, it would make this super easy. 😆
You know somebody installed that back when all those fire roads were easy / open access.

[prisma saddle]

Those aliens are so deceptive

flying around all over lol

[real cedar]

Wait

Alien tower is in toele?

😆

[real cedar]

Suck a lot. 😑

👎

[haughty moon]

Oof

[real cedar]

Yeah .. some people's children

[obsidian storm]

ChUtil Above 50%. Ouch

[real cedar]

Yeah we are getting destroyed 😂

[obsidian storm]

Would explain why I'm having such issues with remote admin

[real cedar]

Yeah. And trace routes will fail

So.. a freq51 primary channel with a 256 bit key. Now is the ideal moment. Looking at the documentation if everybody has the key and everybody sets up their device with that in the primary channel. They should see all devices on the map. They should see all routers on the map. They should be able to transmit neighbor info to one another. They should be able to do mqtt. They should also be able to have any of their bots operate on the primary channel if they so wish. Which I think is a nice experience

Can we set this up Saturday? Ahead of time

[haughty moon]

Yeah I think we just keep spamming the website out to the mesh from the routers and it should be fine

and we can have some residual nodes that do it for the next week

[real cedar]

So I'll create the channel and key and we can decide after that if we will use it

[haughty moon]

yeah, i dont really see the advantage of a longer key if its publically available. just more room for typing/copy paste error

[acoustic mason]

Will MF on 51 shutdown Utah county? There’s only a few nodes on 51 right now.

[haughty moon]

what router can you see if any?

[real cedar]

7ndZKjkgzDJDHZ9rfKayVkKvI1Hp9STEOJhJFlw9Hjw=

Freq51

[real cedar]

I can't generate a smaller one on my device when I tried to put in 51== the box went red

[real cedar]

It shouldn't. You have POTM, and LAKE

Both of which should have very strong signal on MF

If you can see ensign Peak, you also have aur

If your in Lehi Orem and Provo you'll have no problem at all @acoustic mason

[haughty moon]

iOS can do a 1 byte

but 51 isnt one byte i guess

[real cedar]

What I'm saying is that's a problem. If iOS can do that but android can't that's going to cause issues for the avg user

The default key length generated on my station G2 is 256 and I can't change it 😑

Wish there was a setting in app

Without a channel where we can submit neighbor info, I just don't know how we're going to make a pretty live map like we intended to

[leaden crow]

We hope not. It's difficult to predict with a ~20 node test. It's possible for this to fail. Reverting is an option.
We tried this same exact thing last year and reverted to LF. I think our mesh is strong enough to support MF this year.

[real cedar]

I checked his location on the map. If he doesn't see a 1 W signal from Lake Mountain I would be shocked

Like he is within the perfect spot to see it

I'm actually jealous

[haughty moon]

hmm try 1A==
I got that to take

[real cedar]

Still red for me 🙁

Like it will let me enter AQ== but it won't let me enter any key that short no matter the variant

[haughty moon]

bro i dont want to half to copy and paste a long one lmao

guess theres no way around it

[real cedar]

We don't have to do it. I just opened it up to people. We don't have to have a map like every other mesh

There's just only one way we can build it

And it's with neighbor info

If somebody has another way to build the map without it then we don't have to do it at all. I just don't know how to build the map without mqtt or neighbor info. If someone knows, please speak up

Or maybe it's just android idk. This is my version of the app

[haughty moon]

Let me grab my tablet and try

[real cedar]

I can see if there's an update for the app

It does seem like I'm on the latest version or at least so Google Play store says

[haughty moon]

It took on web

standby for android

[real cedar]

If it works on your tablet let me know and I'll just clear the app data and reset the app and try again. I really like the idea of 51==

[real cedar]

Does 51== take in web app?

[haughty moon]

so when I save 51== on iOS it changes to 5w==
? must only be certain combinations of characters

[real cedar]

They're generated with embedded TLS. On microcontrollers by default

I'm guessing they imposed the same limitation on the desktop apps and mobile apps

I'm fine with a vanity key. We just need to make something that works for everybody

And is easy to remember

[haughty moon]

yes i agree

sorry, all my droids are dead, at least they charge fast

[real cedar]

Let me try

42==

The answer to everything in the universe

If it takes I'll laugh

God dammit

OHHHHH

I think I know what it is

For the small keys 1 must be a letter

The other must be a number

No that's not it either

Wtf

[haughty moon]

yeah idk. I was randomly generating a few and didnt see any pattern

[real cedar]

You know I know you don't want to copy and paste. I actually totally understand that because I understand the pain of having to type it in manually

But if generation is going to be that difficult for the short key

Might as well just go with the default generation which is 256

Ideally, you should only ever have to copy and paste it once

I really wish they would document things like this for us

How to generate an 8-bit key properly

[reef ridge]

I typed in 51== and sent it even though it was red. It seems to change whatever you type into the nearest viable key.

So that's a way to make it easy and keep everyone on the same page.

[haughty moon]

okay, i have the same where it stays red until it likes it

[real cedar]

We can't guarantee the generation will always choose the same

[haughty moon]

so we just have to pick one we like

[real cedar]

So if we type in 51 equals equals and then some device generates it wrong based on that?.. I think that would piss a lot of people off more than copying and pasting a big key

[haughty moon]

1A== is easy to remeber

[real cedar]

That works. We can use that

[real cedar]

I'd just like a confirmation from everybody and every client that it works first

[manic fractal]

If you look at some of the visualizations (the node graphs in MeshSense, etc) they show that AUR has a ton of connections to client nodes and also routers and it’s also handling a ton of traffic. I love those visualizations of the data.

[real cedar]

Okay so iOS and Android as well as the web client take it. Do any client-based terminals such as contacts have issues with 1A==

If not I say we make that the key

[acoustic mason]

From my home, it's hard to see any routers. If I get outside, I can occasionally see Lake. From Orem, I can't reach my MEC UV North Base node. I can see it if I go north into PG and AF. I still need to get my roof node up in Orem. I'll see more of the nodes then but if you look at the map, there's only a handful of nodes in Utah county right now.

[manic fractal]

Feed the addiction. What else are you going to spend your money on, food? shelter?

[prisma saddle]

you have a roof node yet?

[obsidian storm]

That won't work. The minimum is 16Bytes

[manic fractal]

Both the meshing-around and TC2 BBSs will link nodes together so they share info. I think can take the load off of one particular BBS. It spreads out the workload. I think my meshing-around can see the one on FPR, I’m guessing. It tells me that it has a link at least.

[acoustic mason]

My roof node is not on my roof yet. I live in a condo so, I need to install it with a lot of stealth while most of my condo are at church 🙂 and since I can't make it up there to update it often, I was hoping to get a stable firmware release of the 2.7.x branch since I need the CLIENT_BASE functionality.

But, regardless, if I drive around with my car node in Orem and Provo, I cannot sent messages to MEC UV North Base. I can send messages if I travel north of Orem though.

[leaden crow]

We placed a new node above Suncrest today to help Utah County.
#1197577977781821541 message

[acoustic mason]

That's great. Anything we can get to help Utah County will help right now.

[prisma saddle]

Alien Tower. see if you see that

[acoustic mason]

It's in my node list but I can't traceroute it.

[leaden crow]

I tried too, but my channel util was at 30%

[ivory canyon]

Layton Parkway is back online now with new hardware. I haven't heightened the antenna yet but the rest is up and running. This upgrade replaced a flaky T-beam with a Nebra. Hope it proves to be more robust.

Its also using a tunable bandpass cavity filter can. 😊

[prisma saddle]

well done!

[reef ridge]

How much power you feeding that Nebra Hat Pro?

[ivory canyon]

It's set for +30 dBm and the cavity filter introduces approx 1.5 dB of loss. The cable from the cavity to the antenna eats up about 4.5 dB. So I'm calculating about 1/4 Watt at the antenna.

[prisma saddle]

was this the 2w hat?

so it should be 1.75?ish?

i can’t trace it but that does not mean much. maybe since antenna not fully up?

[ivory canyon]

It's the 2 Watt hat but I have it dialed back a bit. Didn't want to stress the transceiver board or the POE supply. 250 mW at the antenna should be enough. I might tinker with filter/feedline/power levels over the next few days though.

You couldn't get a trace on my node?

I really need to replace the coax cable with a shorter run of lower loss cable. I just grabbed what I had in my junk box when I put it up.

I'm losing more than half of my power just in the antenna cable.

[reef ridge]

https://github.com/SpudGunMan/meshing-around/commit/2e8206d4ece323fddd44a38f7b182ae8af5c6548
BBS update gives us shell access via DM, very cool!

[reef ridge]

You must have a crazy long run, yeah?

[ivory canyon]

Not terribly long but at 915 MHz, losses add up quickly in sub-par coax! 😋

3dB of loss cuts your TX and RX signals in half!

[reef ridge]

Aren't you using a Nebra? Why use a cable at all and not mount the antenna directly to the bulkhead?

Or just haven't gotten around to mounting it up yet?

[ivory canyon]

Yeah, that mostly. I may end up not using the tunable bandpass cavity (its huge) and go with the built-in on board filter. If I do that, then yes, its going outside.

[real cedar]

@obsidian storm I'm at the space working on the bot

So MeshtasticD provides API access for meshtastic cli and meshing around as I understand it

Trying to get it updated and configured

Added you as admin. @leaden crow what nodes do you want added to admin the spaces BBS

I'm still trying to understand it all as I set it up

Updating debian first on the pi

Someone put tailscale on this .. well if it was you bash. It's upgrading

[prisma saddle]

ok this is what i have so far. https://freq51.net/migrate

this is for @real cedar https://freq51.net/equipment/zeusprotection lol

[prisma saddle]

nope. but i’m way in herriman. so.. dunno.

[real cedar]

LOLLLL

I wish there was a
Guess how we found out.. a picture of FPRv5 and then

Just for the sake of extra humor LMAO

[reef ridge]

We really telling people to insure their nodes? 😂

[prisma saddle]

no lol. that was AI lol

more of a joke i guess lol

[prisma saddle]

that could be arranged lol

[real cedar]

Make it so. humors always good to ease frustration

[prisma saddle]

when one of you experts have time. it could use a rewrite or addition of actual good node arester stuff. but this is a start.

[leaden crow]

Just dsr1 if you're adding one.
I'm done trying to admin with a tracker.

[real cedar]

ROFL will do

[real cedar]

Could you prepare the docs for the Freq51 main channel with 1A== as our primary slot?

[prisma saddle]

yup can do.

[prisma saddle]

its 1byte right? make sure i get the screenshot right.

[haughty moon]

Yes

[prisma saddle]

thank you sir

[prisma saddle]

do you have android?

[haughty moon]

Yes

[prisma saddle]

sweet could i bother you for a screenshot of the channel change. as an example. just need the Freq51 name / 1byte / 1A== entered. no need to save it

[inner jay]

So we are going ahead with the channel?

[haughty moon]

Yeah I can later tonight

[prisma saddle]

thank you

[inner jay]

This right?

[haughty moon]

Yes. That looks correct

[inner jay]

I have 2 nodes setup already on MF with that channel setup

[real cedar]

@reef ridge FPR surviving tonight?

Anyone up north?

[prisma saddle]

perfec thanks!

[real cedar]

I haven't heard it in 3 hrs 😭

[inner jay]

I assume this change only applies to the MF changeover and isn't in use now

[prisma saddle]

correct.

@real cedar should be all set. just waiting for another merge from @obsidian storm

[obsidian storm]

Done

[prisma saddle]

Thank you!

@real cedar

need a fpr image ill add later lol

[solemn sedge]

I switched over ABC4 Roof to Freq51/MF early because I won’t be at the station over the weekend. Hopefully it’s dialed in correctly. I really only use it to get a LoRa signal out of the building

[real cedar]

Omfg 😭

[prisma saddle]

eh?

[reef ridge]

I saw it from here, Francis Peak was getting absolutely slammed with lightning.

[real cedar]

Cool

Can you talk and trace it still

I still got 100+ online so I'm assuming yes

Some get an EXTRA GOOD picture of the lightning tonight

Adding that back drop would be epic for the page

[prisma saddle]

still alive

[reef ridge]

I tried, but couldn't get any good ones. 😭

[prisma saddle]

see above @reef ridge

[real cedar]

@obsidian storm btw the only reason I can't access freq51.net at work is cuz of cloud flare tracking

My employer hard blocks it

😭

[prisma saddle]

proxy? vpn? but then again they doing invest stuff now.. dont wanna get you under their radar.. lol

[real cedar]

At a defense corp

[prisma saddle]

ah ya.. no... lol

[obsidian storm]

Sorry. It's hosted on cloudflare as the web host

[real cedar]

Lol ooof

[haughty moon]

Still alive

[leaden crow]

Did you see this story that aired in FL?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6Z6Z0Iizgg
I thought it was pretty well done.

[prisma saddle]

very cool. i’m going to share that with my family.

new old tech. lol.

[leaden crow]

A few quotes I found cringey, but not bad altogether.

[solemn sedge]

That’s cool. Thanks for sharing. I’ve been kicking around the idea of shooting a story about the mesh here. I think a lot of the preparedness minded Utah folks would find it especially interesting.

Radio guys aren’t always the best at explaining how it works in a soundbite. (Reporters too) I’ve seen some cringe ham radio stories over the years!

[prisma saddle]

that’s cool. ya my family is big preppers . would be cool to see one based here.

[solemn sedge]

Would love to do it. I feel the timing will be right soon. Once the new channel is up and running could be a nice time to strike.

[prisma saddle]

Still good!

[real cedar]

Ohhhh fucking hell..

🤞

It's stalled .. lots of rain will be nice

[obsidian storm]

I keep seeing Alien Tower in your traceroutes! It's doing great as a client

[wet galleon]

Can we Pin the change from LF to MF at the top of the chat for people that may miss it?

[obsidian storm]

We can't do it in this discord. We can do it in the other one

[leaden crow]

We can, we just need to ping someone to pin it.

[prisma saddle]

ya seems to be working great. it’s pos tricks me up and makes me lol. but ya you did good!

[obsidian storm]

I think I fixed it

The Position

I did that yesterday so you should see it on your map?

[leaden crow]

Reminder:
Tomorrow morning (10/05/25) we are switching from LF51 to MF51.
Full instructions here:
https://freq51.net/migrate

Hey @snow tide would you mind pinning this message for us?
#1197577977781821541 message

Group: Anything you want me to edit/add to that?

[real cedar]

Yeah my explanation of snr

Erayd liked it a lot

[leaden crow]

If we want that pinned, it should just be a separate pinned message

[obsidian storm]

Add python instructions

[real cedar]

Trying to find it

😆

Search is less than useful

[leaden crow]

I think we just should just add those to the wiki, but I can do that

[obsidian storm]

Why are we setting the channel name and not leaving it default?

[real cedar]

#1197577977781821541 message

[real cedar]

We arent

Freq51 is the name

1A== will be the key

[obsidian storm]

why not leave the name unset?

[real cedar]

Vanity 😆 and to minimize the chance of any stupid bugs related to name and key

If we are changing the key might as well give it a name

[prisma saddle]

neighbor info. all that too right?

[real cedar]

Yeah that will be a big bonus

Finally a live map

Like baymesh

[obsidian storm]

Add disclaimer very clearly that the name has to be EXACT or it won't work

[real cedar]

Yeah make it very obvious what to do

And what not to mess up

[obsidian storm]

Baymesh uses the default key and name

[leaden crow]

I would prefer if we can do that. Even with such a short key, these instructions are way more complex for me to pass on to Lay people than just "Switch Long Fast to Medium Fast"

[real cedar]

How do they make a map that shows all the neighbor connections?

Ahh they use MQTT and Internet connected nodes don't they

[leaden crow]

We might need to ask, but we should solve this quick and have our instructions nailed down. If they are not changing, these are the CLI instructions I will add to Freq51
meshtastic --set lora.modemPreset MEDIUM_FAST --set lora.channelNum 51
meshtastic --ch-set name Freq51 --ch-set psk base64:1A== --ch-index 0

[real cedar]

Like I don't mean to be the wet blanket, but why is it so difficult for people to change a name and a key

Like all of us have some level of technical inclination I hope

😆

[leaden crow]

I have roof nodes and trackers given to at least a dozen family/friends. I'm not saying they can't figure this out, but a few of them I would be better off changing this myself. I would like to expand this to more family and friends, and I would like to keep it as simple as possible.
Overall I'm fine with the custom default channel, but it is complexity creep. If it's not necessary, I would vote we don't do it.

[prisma saddle]

what about config url?

or too messy?

[real cedar]

Okay that makes a lot more sense

I mean we can just go ahead and keep default blank and AQ==

We'll just have to figure out how to make the map

We can change the documentation and relay the information again.

[real cedar]

One of the issues with that is it tends to override everyone's settings

I have no good solution to this

Y'all let me know what you want to do

I'm slightly bias for the custom channel and key because it makes setting up bots and everything else stupid easy

We don't have to worry about common channels

[obsidian storm]

I have added admin keys to my family's nodes just for this reason.

[obsidian storm]

i really don't want bots filling up the public channels. I'd rather just opt-out of bot noise.

[real cedar]

Meshing around BBS doesn't answer anything in LongFast though when people ! Hit it. I know it can be forced to contact you through DMs but how do we get it to respond to people who say something in default channel?

[obsidian storm]

that sounds perfect to me.

make a bbs channel or something.

it's silly filling the public channel with !wx

[real cedar]

You know what that works

Use default channel
AQ==

@prisma saddle update the docs

Make it easy peasy

I'll make a BBS channel

[umbral ice]

The links work via a BBS channel where the bot calls for links

There already is one in the config I sent you that FPR and MHR and my home BBS is on

[real cedar]

Could you resend it to me haha

[umbral ice]

Sure thing

[real cedar]

I'll get stuff sync'd at 801labs

[obsidian storm]

I think we should try the 1A== key

[real cedar]

Getting VPN access soon (tm)

[umbral ice]

I’ve also got separate channels for ID alerts and emergency calls

[real cedar]

Okay so Default Blank but 1A==

[obsidian storm]

I think it's too late to change anything.

I think we keep everything the same.
Channel Name: Freq51
Slot: 51
Preset: Medium_Fast
Key: 1A==

And we just use that for the winter and see how it works out.

I'm really excited for neighbor info

[prisma saddle]

thanks @snow tide

[umbral ice]

What time in the morning are we making the move?

[real cedar]

It will be an all day affair. Switch when you can

Earlier the better

[umbral ice]

Sounds good

[real cedar]

AUR will be switched around 9-11

[real cedar]

Hell yeah I'm down

I think it'll work out fine

I know there's going to be some people that probably have just a little bit of trouble, but once everybody's on the key and channel it'll be like a normal day

@prisma saddle The docs look good.. I would just make sure that people have the disclaimer and know that those are the things they must set

Oh shit, the Android app updated and moved all the stuff that you just told people to do 😆

The layout has changed a bit. It should be obvious where to go but that's funny

🤣

[umbral ice]

What version is it now? I'm on 2.6.30

[prisma saddle]

hah great. wanna get me new pics? lol

[haughty moon]

See the other server. On android we need to remove the step to select key size

[prisma saddle]

will do

[real cedar]

Yeah when I'm not getting rained on

[prisma saddle]

ya anyone can get them. i just done have an android phone. :).

[umbral ice]

rip lol its not updated on f.droid yet

[pseudo kestrel]

I use Obtanium to snatch it straight from their github

[umbral ice]

doing that now

[umbral ice]

i don't hate the update

[prisma saddle]

we may run into this issue too. #1393378642918379673 message

resetting the node db does not always work.

[real cedar]

You can force clear it via meshtastic cli connected to the device

It's an app problem I think

[leaden crow]

I added the CLI instructions and submitted a PR.
When I tested it, I had to do the --ch-set as 2 commands or it didn't work for me. So I added it that way in the docs.
EDIT: I just had a typo. It worked with 1 command, I closed the PR and made another.

[real cedar]

#general message

ROFL

[prisma saddle]

haha nice

Ok other than the new android channel image. was there anything else we needed changed on the migrate steps?

[haughty moon]

Remove the key size from android

[prisma saddle]

ok we should be fine then. the image i set last night does not show a size. so this is all we need i think.

i’ll add a note that the name has to be exact.

@obsidian storm

[real cedar]

Do we still have all the notes about neighbor info on stationary clients only for mapping?

Since we're moving to that, we might as well have that on for all the stationary clients

I can't wait to see all of that coalesce it's going to be really cool

I would love to make a grafana version of that but I just don't know grafana well and it's so heavy

[prisma saddle]

hmm ya it’s in the config page if i recall. i can check again in a bit.