US - Utah

[prisma saddle]

ah. i was looking for a guess on where npr was a few weeks ago. have some ideas found the antenna spots up there. but who knows lol.

ight. i’m wondering black abs or something. hmm.

[obsidian storm]

Oh, I found NPR too!

He posted a picture of npr

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1197577977781821541/1301275905972240477/IMG_5833.jpg?ex=68449ba0&is=68434a20&hm=ea18362cf7e40cfac7f51a973b9aafcb6060f35f646c11bb678dde65b55438c6&

#1197577977781821541 message

[prisma saddle]

lol that’s the exact building i saw on the maps.

[obsidian storm]

Yup. So not hard to piece where it's at

[prisma saddle]

haha yup.

[real cedar]

Your chief need is something that will hold up on a peak with all the extra UV.. Or something that can be painted to hold up but also blend into the surrounding area. I mean honest to god because it's a bathouse. We could make a peak sign that goes on top and some arrows pointing to the trails 🤣

I'm just saying the skies the limit on how real you truly want it to look

[prisma saddle]

ight sounds good. i’ll get creative. or try to.

[real cedar]

Yup that's my project haha

Gonna get up there through the thick snow and replace it

I checked Copernicus imagery thanks to fed

Its snowy haha

What blows is NP road isn't public

Its goes through the f'ing mine area

[prisma saddle]

hmm

so that is gated some ways up!

?

[real cedar]

Old imagery

There's a gate there

[prisma saddle]

darn

[real cedar]

It looks a lot like Butterfield canyons gate

Closed to cars

But I don't think to humans

[prisma saddle]

🙂

[real cedar]

Thing is

The back side is way faster

So the whole no cars things makes it pointless to go from 8200

[real cedar]

https://www.summitpost.org/nelson-peak-ut/602656

Its private land where the antenna sits

Just so everyone knows. BLM terminates on the western side of the summit 🤣

[prisma saddle]

dang that looks awesome.

[white field]

Try to track metrics from solar:4 if you want insight. 11k vert uptime since November

[ember torrent]

If y’all are still talking about a node pole, while short, i’ve got 60”, non metallic carbon fiber tube i’d donate to the mesh. A fancy base could gain height while eliminating concrete packing.

Guess while i’m chiming in, the inside of my truck got to 135F’ (57’C) with a high of 80’F outside yesterday. Plenty of tint, a solar panel, and sunshades to make it semi analogous to a node box.

What temperatures do these boxes see in the dead of summer?

[prisma saddle]

cool what is it’s OD? bendable or sturdy?

[ember torrent]

1.5”. More sturdy than steel.

[real cedar]

Mine stay extremely cool but I've designed them that way

Mine are meant to bring air through baffles to keep the temperature as close to outdoor as possible for the BME680

[obsidian storm]

Now that point of the mountain is router late, most of my trace routes that would go through point of the Mountain are going through NPR. @real cedar Make sure NPR is awesome

I'm hoping this means that we have quieted the network down a little bit by not having two routers repeat the same thing at once

[real cedar]

I'm working on it lol

I got family over this weekend so time is limited until Monday haha

Got them to go up ensign peak to the Overlook and hour after me purely so I could have an excuse to go up there 🤣

[obsidian storm]

I don't think we're in a rush

Everything seems to be pretty smooth

[real cedar]

Its pretty smooth down there yeah. But I do want to fix NPR so its no longer a worry or a problem

Then I can focus back up north again. I got the nebra working

For promontory point

The Nebras just too sus for NPR baha

Its literally a crypto miner box so I'm sanding.. Etch priming and spray painting

The most likely color to slip under the radar in the spot. Slate brown grey

@obsidian storm this is my current bike setup. I do all these climbs without battery. Honestly you might find you don't want an ebike. They are heavy, cumbersome and quite frankly useless when their battery dies

Like if anything I'll probably ebike this fully custom so I can bolt on bolt off with ease cuz I'm pretty much anti ebike even now when I want to build one.. Mostly to see if it's worth it again

Lightweight and muscle power still remains most efficient

[obsidian storm]

I'm lazy

[real cedar]

But you ride horses you can't possibly be that lazy hahaha

[pseudo kestrel]

Is R01 actually up past Rexburg at the moment?

[ember torrent]

Prolly a typo.

[ember torrent]

Leaning on the IoT side of the house, be cool to read a temp and turn on/off a fan…

[umbral ice]

Given my understanding of Router/Repeater (assuming it isn't flawed or incorrect) - since repeaters don't consume hops are there any intentions of converting routers to repeaters? I feel like the idea of getting from Boise to SLC will fall short with three hops if they're all eaten by routers.

[broken turret]

Repeaters do consume hops.

[umbral ice]

Well then ignore me 😛 plenty of bad information out there unfortunately.

I didn't dig enough through official documentation

[ember torrent]

Routers cut in line too.

[umbral ice]

Rereading it again - appreciate ya'll setting me straight 😛

[ember torrent]

I’m only chiming in to check myself too.

Only 130 miles between their and your operations. 2 hops tops.

[real cedar]

Sadly they do consume hops. The difference between a router and repeater is that routers will always repeat a signal as will router late. A repeater if it hears it repeated already will not rebroadcast. Additionally they offer less control. It's like a dumb AP. It's just there to blast out the WiFi and hand everything else off

Probably not the best analogy

But it serves the purpose

[real cedar]

Yeah I think I'll let @umbral ice handle getting to Boise but.. I have a vested interest in Mountain Home and Sun Valley

Yellowstone as a stretch goal

But if you want to snag boise somehow after I put up Bennet.. By all means god speed

@obsidian storm @white field @leaden crow if we successful combine meshes and we get down to st George.. Do you want one of us to snipe a URL and rename our mesh from utahmeah to "Intermountain Mesh" or something 🤣 sorry lame name I know just couldn't think of a good one yet

[umbral ice]

haha I have idahomesh.com that i've done nothing with as of yet. if that happens I'll slap a forward on it

[real cedar]

That's kind of what I was thinking. But it has to work for us to actually go out and get that URL. I was just thinking that once we achieve something so monumentous, then maybe we should put ourselves on the Mesh Community page. I don't really know of another mesh network that is managing to span three states because we already have a plan to expand to Nevada and now we're gonna get southern Idaho. It's only a matter of time before we get corners of Wyoming and Colorado. It's highly possible that might not happen this year, but it's within the realm of possibilities next year as well. But Idaho is probably going to happen for sure. Your too close not to try

[ember torrent]

As this mesh begins to explode, we ought to keep an eye on neighboring Routers.

👋
Hi. I’m quokka. I have a solar node 20’ up, centerville ish. Lemme know if I need to change my Role.
Node will likely go higher, no plans for more than a 3ish dni antenna though.
🤣

[leaden crow]

Are these your nodes I see on the map around Centerville?
Meshtastic 43b6
Meshtastic 7ebc
Meshtastic 5839

[white field]

Nice! Great to have some clients like that

Routers are reserved for summits usually

[broken turret]

This isn't correct either - repeaters do not cancel rebroadcast if they overhear somebody else doing it (see this function: https://github.com/meshtastic/firmware/blob/e78033bb856c1fe5f8c6cbf5850419c50667068c/src/mesh/FloodingRouter.cpp#L46). You're thinking of the client modes, which do behave like that.

The best way to think about a repeater is it's basically the same as a router, but doesn't broadcast its info to the rest of the mesh. You'll see it as an anonymous hop in traceroutes.

It's also possible to disable decode if you want to save a bit of power, but this isn't how it behaves by default (and you won't save much by doing this anyway, as the power overhead is not high).

[real cedar]

The code is more helpful than the docs 😭 and im not trying to be rude saying that but it's true rn haha

Thanks for clarifying. I always thought they would not rebroadcast if they saw a router broadcast and I think it came off bad info on the forum haha

[real cedar]

Yeah we have routers pretty spaced out and serving unique cells ATM. They can mostly see each other too so we don't have a hidden router problem 🤣

But as it grows in terms of sheer distance yeah we will have to be extremely Choosey and let clients fill in the gaps

[umbral ice]

on the "local routers" we have planned, I'm just going to delcare they need to be clients

[real cedar]

Yeah you should. Lots of Clients is toooootally fine

Routers are there to shoot you 400 miles across the network

That's kinda the ideal goal right?

When you use hey what's that. When you're looking for a router placement.. I always bias towards the router seeing more very distant routers even if it's slightly unideal. My logic went well the farther the router away it can see. The less hops it might need

And that's a might cuz there's a lot of maybe 🤣

[umbral ice]

I think so. Router points for regional ingress and egress points

Maybe one for a local regional router

[real cedar]

So.. Wanna know our in the works testing plan for getting around the 7 hop limot

[umbral ice]

Isolated MQTT nodes?

Non internet MQTT back to back repeaters? lol

[real cedar]

BBS-relays.. I'm theory if your beyond the 7 hops.. Just send an message (behaves like email) to the regional BBS and as long as the hops between the relays is consistently less than 7.. In theory.. The BBS can bypass the limit that nobody likes 🤣 but because of Lora packet constraints is a fact if life

Ahh nah man no inet

The idea was to do it without the help of any other infra

But the internet integration and MQTT definitely is gonna be something cool I expect to explode when short fast is a thing

[umbral ice]

Yeah. I had the idea of not using actual internet, and just using a broker between two nodes that were local to each other, but that was based off of potentially bad info from forums indicating that MQTT brokers reset the hop count.

Doing some kind of directional antennas in two different directions

buuut nodes still would have to have MQTT allowance on and it gets gross lol

[real cedar]

Now I've got the vision in my head but I want to toss it out there..

I'm theory should this work. Your Harrison peak router is perfect for you having the Idahome BBS relay 😂.

In theory if we can get either NPR or potentially a relay well placed SLC node to be the main BBS host.. And then we would put a BBS at the Vegas Ingress point.. And a BBS relay in wendover. We can just forget the mesh native messaging and switch over to the superior method 🤣

Okay the last part is me trolling a bit it's not superior. I'm sure it's fully of bugs

But man it would be cool

[real cedar]

Way ahead of you on the tri radio idea. Wanna hear about what I thought up for that

[umbral ice]

i'm all ears 😛

[real cedar]

Your gonna need a lot of power for this. But this is the theory.

3 Ebyte E22 modules
1 RPI zero
MeshtasticD controlling all 3
Meshing around sees all three and can program their function

Center radio.. - local.. 5-8 dBi Omni.. Serves the local area like any other router
Right Radio.. Foreign mesh.. Log periodic antenna. Punch far and deep to get as close as feasible..
Left Radio.. Local mesh but directional.. Again log periodic or Yagi antenna.. Punch far and deep into the existing mesh your local to.. And try to bypass some hops..

Meshing around BBS.. Then has these programmed.. And it can relay between say a channel 20 mesh like Las Vegas.. And a Channel 51 like utah

That way multiple frequencies can be used on the same BBS and the flood gets controlled

Its only a working idea. I have not had the time to commit and sit down to work on it yet but I think it has promise

In theory this needs a 25W solar panel (so a bit big)

And 😂🤣 for my requirements of lasting at least a month if something happens.. 8x21700s

[umbral ice]

I run my G2s on a 16ah LiFePo4 with a 25w 12v solar panel >.>

[real cedar]

Or 40 Ah of power

[umbral ice]

I do like overengineering nodes lol

[real cedar]

Me too

Others like it cheap

I'm like fuck it I'm building a tank

🤣 and we hauled 50 lbs of concrete up to Mount a 15 ft pole 7 ft into the ground with an auger

AUR is never ever coming out of the ground

It might fall off the pole

It that pole is there to stay

I slammed 250 lbs of my body and kicked it BJJ style. It didn't even vibrate. I was insulted

[umbral ice]

😮

[real cedar]

That works too. So the problem in Utah which is similar to eastern Idaho I guess (less so western) is there is SO much snow that if I have to snow shoe I have to 1) wait for the avalanche forecast to be favorable across the entire router. 2) haul tools in winter ( I will) and 3) leave at 4 am to get up there. And 5) ski down

But that's why I'm trying to build in 1-2 months run time if solar outright dies

Like I have 20 Ah on rak 4631s

[umbral ice]

yeah Harris will need that

[real cedar]

AUR has 3 months of running time baked in

Oh yeah then over engineer the shit out of it

Also snow and ice sucks.. We are using LEXEL to seal our nodes

[umbral ice]

depending on how much they'll let me utilize their power

[real cedar]

Tbch though if you never lose solar you don't have to over build

[white field]

alrighty, its done being assembled

My Stansbury node is now filtered, I'm ready to install it when I have the free time.

[real cedar]

The raspberry pis are so hungry

[white field]

Maybe Monday

[real cedar]

Hell yeah. Excellent. I spent the night wiring a mini bike to haul concrete up mountains

😂

Look I know you said not to but I want goshute to survive an avalanche

They happen alot out there

[white field]

nothing will surive an avalanche

trees dont

[real cedar]

A direct hit would merc it but if it's to the side or gets dusted a bit. Or smacked a bit hard but indirectly that's what I want it to survive

The question is could it rip AUR out of the ground lmfao

[white field]

DM me the pin, but there's zero change of a big slide not destroying one if it's in the path

like 100% death

[real cedar]

One sec

[white field]

My guess is you will never actually have to deal with it

or it will be so deeply burried that it's irrelevant.

[real cedar]

DMed

Its more the cornice that's an issue

Goshute gets an 8 ft cornice all winterr across its ridge

And I can't predict where it will be

That's why we were thinking of drilling an AUR style hole.. 15 ft pole. Anchored 7 ft deep

Hello LIGHTNING come all ye faithful

With that deep of a pole I would not be surprised if I just got struck every time haha

I own some of. LCOMS BEEFIEST lightning arrestors. Was thing of welding its ground point to the pole to protect stuff

Okay jacob confirmed for me the cornice problem might be irrelevant if I place it carefully no need to tow up a pile driver with my stage 4 tote goat

[umbral ice]

You wanted to though

[real cedar]

I did

Imagine the meme I could create

[umbral ice]

hahaha

[real cedar]

Tote goat hauls pile driver 8000 ft up a mountain

[umbral ice]

Had the thought yesterday based on a comment here about trail cams, and that got me thinking about buying a pallet of trail cams and putting in a rak 19003 in each of them and just dot them all over the south hills

as clients

[real cedar]

Don't ask me how I'm getting it down. I don't have the breaks for that!

[umbral ice]

and get the LTE ones so i can actually use it

[real cedar]

You need short fast to reliably send quality Images

[umbral ice]

oh now thats a step further lmao

[white field]

I'm pretty sure utah does not allow LTE ones

[umbral ice]

well I'm in idaho

[white field]

oh nice

[umbral ice]

and we have considerably less rules about... everything

[real cedar]

One of our guys and Myself are running ATAK servers

[umbral ice]

oh nice I was just considering spinning one up just for grins and giggles

[real cedar]

I know and I miss it. Utahs rules are hilarious to me

But you know

How you govern a lot of people has to be a lot different from sparse people

[real cedar]

They are pretty easy to setup. I just got mine going

I've been wanting to use it for adding situational awareness to the mesh

https://mytecknet.com/lets-build-a-tak-server/

[umbral ice]

oh you're doign full atak, not something like freetak

[real cedar]

@umbral ice grab as much source as possible. Idk how long the air force will be benevolent about civtak

[real cedar]

Full ATAK yeah

I've been watching it. It's gonna need a lot more work
https://github.com/FreeTAKTeam/FreeTakServer?tab=readme-ov-file

I'm trying to C2 drones with the mesh haha

For fun mostly

@white field how interested have people been about a fully mesh public operated TAK. I was thinking of improving the DC801 node to host the capability

[umbral ice]

at our first meeting about meshtastic at our local hackerspace there were conversations about atak

[real cedar]

OH MY GOD BASH

@obsidian storm

Now we have a 3rs hacker space in range

[umbral ice]

LOL

Second Star Labs

Twin Falls

[real cedar]

702 801 and 208

All on the same BBS

Would be a fucking riot haha

[umbral ice]

I was talkign to one of our key holders about all these plans and he asked who in Utah I was talkin to and he started reminiscing about the DC801 parties 😛

[white field]

Tbh, I have no idea how atak works nor do I generally care.

I’m really just interested in social comms and toy projects

[real cedar]

😆 fair enough might be a very niche thing then. Very good for me to know cuz that means I can be lazy

[real cedar]

Crimson6

😂

Ask him if he knows rufio

I will absolutely LOL my butt off when I tell him in fact hes on the mesh to and he might double down on helping us get to Idaho for this. I'm gonna run a Sim and see if Harrison can see Prom Point

@umbral ice
I think we have a winner

If you can get yours up high enough and mines gonna be 10 ft up.. I think we got this

How did you get tower access if you don't mind me asking

That's lit

[umbral ice]

I used to work for a local radio station in Twin as a broadcast tech. Used to go up to do tower maintenance on Flat Top butte and always ran into a guy from a competitor. Years later, I do IT and he works for White Cloud. We are putting it up there as an “experiment” and will just forget. If it doesn’t get forgotten, I am going to lean on the SSL’s nonprofit status to get free space rent. One of our key holders is pretty tight with one of their sales persons too.

If THAT falls through, I’m going to try to link up with the ham club as a fellow ham 😛

[real cedar]

That's awesome. How high can you get it mounted

[umbral ice]

Depends on if i want to pay a tower crew $135/hour lmao

[real cedar]

@umbral ice knowing what I know now. It sounds like you'll have power.

Have you considered a Nebra 1 watt node with a 10 dBi antenna and an acasom filter? It's basically a RPI 3 node

[umbral ice]

this is the ham tower tho

I'm not actually 100% sure how tall the tower is for White Cloud

[obsidian storm]

Do you guys have something up Sedgwick ?

[real cedar]

Its definitely worth it. I'm running the height on that tower now. You get so much for the tiniest budge higher. So as high as possible would be ideal for yourself

[umbral ice]

I figure I can get an easy 15 feet off the ground, but since I can drive up to it, I can pack a 30ft extension ladder

[real cedar]

30 fts insane.. Go for it haha

I was running Sims at 15 ft max

That's epic hang on

[umbral ice]

I've got nothing up there presently.

[obsidian storm]

do you guys have access to the towers there?

[umbral ice]

Maybe

I woudl have to ask

[obsidian storm]

There looks like a shack exactly the same as that ham tower you showed.

[umbral ice]

I also still have other radio contacts that are in Boise and MIGHT be able to link up with them and I know they've got some stuff up on the mountains there. That being said, Boise's got quite an infrastructure already. I don't know much about it, but @radiant wasp is up there.

[real cedar]

Damn

That's awesome

You solved my sun valley mt baldy problem

Also you've got deep creak peak in LOS and Bennet

Hell yes!

I DONT HAVE TO CLIMB CACHE

🤣

Literally by myself

With all the gear

[real cedar]

I went to college there and used to live there and have family there

There's a ton of infra up near bogus basin

But realize it's a bit tucked in

So it will need Bennet to repeat anyways

I think Boise would benefit from a router on Schaefer and Hayden peak

The treasure valley is weird

You can both see a lot and get blocked at the same time

And don't get me started on the SRC lmfao

Would need some cliff side clients around to get it down in here

There's a lot of TV infra up Schafer.

KBOI

Quite a few FM booster stations

The ski resort is city owned so I imagine if they had a contact at the city.. The higher schafer butte.. Would actually be better. 😂 I ski there sometimes. Could always check in on it 🤣

[umbral ice]

Someone at SSL has connections with Magic Mountain Ski resort down south

Though I don't think that's terribly helpful

[real cedar]

Its not but you could make it a client

[umbral ice]

I'm dead serious about putting together a wilderness mesh with clients and trail cams

[real cedar]

You should totally do it. I wish I could say we would all be on short fast soon but as far as I've heard I think the plan first is to get LF working solid first and incrementally rolling out shortfast

[umbral ice]

I'm going to end up calling a meeting when it's time to swap over and end up doing it for most of the folks here

[real cedar]

Are you committing to the frequency change too?

If your a go for SF. I will get NPR designed pronto and test SF locally here with jacob (I'm so sorry to make you drive bro) bash and dagron

[umbral ice]

I'll probably put together a step by step guide

yeah both I think

[real cedar]

You just sealed the schedule

I'm making NPR this week.. Deploying the following weekend

[umbral ice]

I'll have to really push folks to get changed

I figured I'd use Harrison to force it by making Harrison and the local router node change over and just gut everyone who doesn't change lmao

It looks like Harrison still has some snow, but I'm going that direction next weekend to camp at City of Rocks, so I'm going to swing by and inspect and maybe mount a preliminary node up and swap it to LF 51

It'll need some upgrades to survive next winter, but I can at least get something up there

Assuming I can get up there. My White Cloud connection said that they keep it closed until July

[real cedar]

Its okay. We won't have a ton of stuff deployed until then as well

[ember torrent]

@leaden crow Those three are me. 5839 is the solar. It should be in the map for good now 🤣

[prisma saddle]

looks like femtofox will be back in stock 1-2 weeks.

[prisma saddle]

this tall enough for what we need? @real cedar

[obsidian storm]

New node seen:

If this ends up being another porn bot.....

[obsidian storm]

I got up to about 57° C just sitting in the sun outside. But the moment I covered it in some shade the temperature dropped significantly

[real cedar]

It should be

[prisma saddle]

oh no!

The great eye!

[umbral ice]

Oh man, that's brilliant! If that isn't one of the highest in the region I'll be very disappoint

[leaden crow]

Nice, I had hoped I could traceroute them from my node in North Salt Lake ds nsl
but I think I need to work on the placement of that one. I can't seem to hit anything to the north with it.

[obsidian storm]

I saw a ton of new nodes over the last 48 hrs

[thorn marsh]

Sorry to disappoint. It's a friend's node near Mueller Park in Bountiful.

[real cedar]

Tell him to ride these instead of sauron's 🤣

That's my mini bike.. Stage 4'd hahaha

@maiden wraith hmu when your headed to Thurston. Kinda wanna see if I can some along

[obsidian storm]

These look super awesome

https://www.printables.com/model/1264626-rak-ipex-pigtail-bracket

[ember torrent]

Toasty. In hindsight, i think i’ll splurge for Environment Sensor on the next solar node.

[ember torrent]

WTH is this?

[ember torrent]

If the antenna is going inside, someone smarter than me should make sure carbon fiber-epoxy resin doesn’t degrade the signal.

[ember torrent]

Can ds nsl 0 hop Aurora U?

Yeah, I can’t get to you either. Maybe I can find room for a 50’ antenna structure. 🤣

[ember torrent]

Yeah me too. Wierd. 🫣

[ember torrent]

I stuck my 17cm whip antenna into the tube. Didn’t appear to change SNR and RSSI.
SCIENCE!

[real cedar]

CF resin absolutely will degrade the signal but only if it's done in a certain form. In the case of 3d printed CF nah

Its a waterproof nilight out of a sand rail 🤣 that I welded up with angle iron and 3 rods and a bracket and painted

[leaden crow]

No, does not have LoS to AUR. The only thing it has direct to rn is NPR.

[ember torrent]

Nah dude, dis real cfrp. Bike tube stuff. I forget the resin content, but probably 20-30%.

Hard to get up, hard to take down? Lug 12’ of 4”x3”x1/4” structural steel?

[obsidian storm]

Heh. From an old show. Tron

[prisma saddle]

love that show.

[obsidian storm]

I think I'll modify that model to have a hole in it for a heatsink, but I love the idea of something holding the antennas in

[prisma saddle]

ya not a bad idea.

[ember torrent]

Who’s repeating?

[white field]

unknown return is almost always NPR

Does anyone know if there's a way to infer the firmware version other than traceroute returns?

We should really try to get everyone running a client on some of the 2.5+ firmware.

The only node we should accept in the short term having "Repeater (unknown db)" is NPR.

Which is gonna get replaced soon

[ember torrent]

No, who is “Repeater (unknown dB)”

[ember torrent]

So hit NPR twice?

[white field]

oh JK

Did we upgrade POTM?

I know it was also older firmware.

[ember torrent]

This is ~North Salt Lake City stuff.

[white field]

gotcha

[ember torrent]

“Cersia” is Layton

[white field]

Actually, wait. On the TO: trace, I think it means you haven't seen node info yet?

[real cedar]

So regardless of whether your equipments sensitive enough to measure.. You can google it. It affects performance.. Lower the frequency the less its affected but it acts ad an attenuator

Its why resins are used on some aircraft to reduce RCS

[real cedar]

Yeah Bash did

[white field]

@ember torrent Do you have the timestamp on that trace?

We should maybe be able to figure it out from the mesh logs. Using those, we can cross reference the seen nodes.

^this it?

[real cedar]

M not sure.. Aurora Ceresia is far up a mountain side in a 40 ft tree. It sees NSL no problem. Zero need for repeaters there unless you need that back corner near centerville going up to rudys flat

[ember torrent]

Please tell me more 🤭

[real cedar]

I mean I have my limits to which I can but PU resin is mixed a certain way and to a certain specific density. Therea other ingredients to achieve the real deal but the resin is public info

[white field]

oh I suppose ^all means that the next node int he hop list saw the trace not being propagated and injected a 0 value.

[real cedar]

53bf is AC

It used to be the hackerspaces node

[white field]

we are missing the middle hop tho.

[real cedar]

Lmao

[white field]

I think this is the trace out.

[real cedar]

That is strange.. Well there might be a hidden repeater? But idk about that. I feel like I'd consistently see that in my

OHHHH

I KNOW

Its FA4D its trenbologna

Sometimes if AC can't see something just right it will bounce through tren in layton

[white field]

You know the really easy way to kill these nodes on old firmware? replace them and swap to SF.

[real cedar]

I presumed this was the plan 🤣

[white field]

oh yeah, its' gonna be great.

I'm gonna pull the 38bf hardware soon once stansbury goes up.

I gotta figure out how much gear I'm gonna hike up there. as a gambling man, I really want to just bring the node + hose clamps + screw driver.

[real cedar]

Anything north of NSL has no love yet sadly @ember torrent we are working on it.. Batman's going to thurston and I'm likely to join him. Then I'm deploying prom and idaho folks are getting their thing up in July which should reach us and cover large parts of IH84 going north..
Prom takes over north of tremonton

[real cedar]

I think that will be good. Take pics. Would love to see how it held up

[ember torrent]

Trace back went: north slc, layton, north slc, centerville?

[white field]

yeah, i think it's been up almost 9 months at this point

[prisma saddle]

yup it was upgraded last week.

[white field]

I'm currently vibration qualifying my Stansbury node for dynamic wind vibrations by driving it around in the trunk of my car.

[real cedar]

Yeah it can bounce weirdly due to our terrain. We are hidden from the city. Obstructed from NPR slightly. AUR has a blind spot and ceresia has to take your stuff north then south to get to anywhere else. Now sometimes your extra bounces can be due to having your node limit set too high

If you don't need 7 hops to do you stuff

Don't set it to 7 hops

[white field]

Yeah, even for reaching solar:4 down by Manti I never need more than 5 hops.

which reminds me, I'm lowering my hop limits. 😂

[real cedar]

You won't when deseret is up. We might be able to obsolete the tintic node

[white field]

I do set hop limit 7 for my remote routers. I want people to see how far they can reach.

Yeah, that will be perfect

Can AUR see deseret?

[real cedar]

Oh yeah fair enough. If you want to see the entire network.. 7 hops but hops are determined by the originating node as I understand it

[real cedar]

Yes haha

And stansbury

And NPR

[ember torrent]

Yeah, knew i’m in a weird hole. Just verifying my trace reading.

I try to max at 5, which i needed to get to ds nsl, this time. I wanna get into downtown slc, hence higher hops outta me.

[real cedar]

Send me a Geo coords if you trust me in DMs and I'll see what I can do about your pocket

[white field]

@ember torrent do you have direct LOS access to NPR?

TBH, I had great success from pointing a YAGI at it.

I would almost only ever get direct hops to it since it was so directional and it really improved my connectivity.

Basically made it so I only ever linked in/out through the most well positioned node possible.

One downside is that I would almost always re-transmit for my house kinda blasted NPR.

[real cedar]

Its kinda what I want to do with the hackerspaces node.
Olympus router. Yagi antenna. Simplest guaranteed route out

[white field]

I really feel like there's extra game theory for hidden node interference that the mesh algos don't handle.

Oh yeah, the 12dbi YAGI was the most reliable think I setup.

[ember torrent]

Yezur, which segways into seeing so many routers. I belive C6 made most of them Router Late, but neighboring routers may be my downtown SLC problem.

[white field]

Downtown just doesn't have LOS.

I feel like it's a tough spot to get signal repeated without burning another router late placement.

you kinda want a node that's positioned so it can only see NPR downtown and has a 0dbi antenna.

So they just give local retransmits with client configs.

[prisma saddle]

someone wanna throw one up on the church office building... lol

[white field]

I feel like picking favorite streets to place yagis on would be fun

like if someone could point a yagi straight down state street.

[real cedar]

Link to the Yagi. If I get Olympus up I'm beaming the node out of the downtown area

[white field]

Olympus freaks me out a little bit

[ember torrent]

Not necessarily about trust, more I’m happy watching this grow and seeing what happens. I may add a Client around Rose Park, but big maybe.

[white field]

Feels too close to the other wilderness zones helium miners were removed from.

Tho I know your nodes are discrete

[real cedar]

Hold off. I know there's a node going on the walker center soon

Can you see the walker center from your place

[white field]

Nah, but that spots perfect.

TBH, best vibe placement.

whoever does it let me know and I'll give them a rak temp module if its not already got one.

get visual and RF weather reports from that tower would be cool. I learned yesterday that the color indicates the weather forecast.

[real cedar]

Lol yeah. It's a good strategic client placement
Uhmm. I guess I know why @ember torrent is having issues. He can't see NPR.. He can't see AUR because rose park area is blinded to both. He can only see POTM and I'm guessing because ceresia, tren and AUR are closer.. He's hopping out weird. In fact Stansbury fixes his problem

[obsidian storm]

Yes

[real cedar]

But again that means hopping to stansbury then to NPR or AUR haha to get back in the city. Weird hop but sometimes it's all you got in those weird low points

Especially near rose park and the peace gardens and the high way

I spend a ton of time on the 999 out there and have done a lot of testing

[white field]

Yeah, I'll try to get stansbury up later this week.

[obsidian storm]

POTM is running 2.6.10 right now

[white field]

I wasn't sure I personally need it, but I think it will be a huge help.

[real cedar]

I don't want to upgrade AUR.. Its only 2.6.4.. Devs want it at 2.6.9 or greater cuz unmessable

Ugh

One of these days rufio and I will go do that with his tiny 8 core gameboy sized laptop

[obsidian storm]

Just do it with a cell phone

That's what I did with POTM

[real cedar]

It seems to be very reliable with apple but androids another story

I have to use the nrf app

[ember torrent]

I’m west of Centerville with LOS of NPR. Stans or Hogup are crazy 🫨

[real cedar]

Not mesh app

[obsidian storm]

I used USB and just the file browser

I didn't use Bluetooth

[real cedar]

Ahhh

And that just worked? I never imagined I could flash over Android OTG

[white field]

lol, could make an rpi that flashes them on boot.

then power it with a usb battery bank

[ember torrent]

Centerville to Rose Park to AU to where i need.

[real cedar]

I thought about that. I have small laptops and even one with an active mint mobile Sim LTE card

I just prefer my Linux machine comforts I guess. It's not that which is an issue

Its that I have to go on Sunday to avoid techs seeing me

I've spent 4 Sundays on ensign peak LOL

[obsidian storm]

Worked easy

I tested it a few times at home just to make sure

[real cedar]

I'll have to test this and pull configs

Will Make rak servicing so much easier

[obsidian storm]

Pull configs using the app

And the double tap the reset button and use copy paste with the file browser app

[real cedar]

HAHA man well @white field you can go upgrade Marys nipple next time your down there

So for swasey or the tushars. What firmware version are you thinking

Absolute latest or just 2.6.9

[prisma saddle]

what? there one near Green river?

swasey ?

[real cedar]

Soon (I need you to place deseret first)

[obsidian storm]

I'm assuming Android. I doubt iPhone gives you the features to do it

[prisma saddle]

ah ok cool i am going to be there on a river trip 19-21 lol

[real cedar]

Then I'll head out to delta and take the mini bike out there

[real cedar]

At the peak?

[prisma saddle]

ha ha nah. green river.

[real cedar]

Ohhh

[prisma saddle]

camping at that CG swasey campground

[real cedar]

Lmao wrong swasey

[prisma saddle]

ha ha darn

[real cedar]

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Swasey+Peak,+Utah+84624/@39.7156286,-113.2412231,9z/data=!4m9!1m2!2m1!1sGreen+river!3m5!1s0x80b3065f47d0982b:0x69a8d1cf9ef68d79!8m2!3d39.3882824!4d-113.3160841!16s%2Fg%2F1q67pzz5m?utm_campaign=ml-ardi&g_ep=Eg1tbF8yMDI1MDYwNF8wIOC7DCoASAJQAQ%3D%3D

This one

I decided to easiest thing for me to do is handle the desert nodes with less people for long interconnections

I've got a bunch of large antennas that I need to utilize

[real cedar]

Don't need to be in dismay. @white field what was the planned timeline for mt Elena to moab? I forgot

[prisma saddle]

eh its all good. ill be there before it is implemented ill bet.

I need to work on my truck node. figure out some mounting..

[real cedar]

Well I'm curious if you'll see Owl router hang on

[prisma saddle]

will be here https://maps.app.goo.gl/wkoDcr9Qex8kKuFR8

and prob not unless i threw something on the mountains above me

[real cedar]

Shoot

Too obstructed

[prisma saddle]

ya

[real cedar]

Soon (tm)

@leaden crow that placement you mentioned earlier.. It sees grouse creek, prom and swasey and NPR. Lots of the proposed spots. That's epic. Don't deviate.. You might be able to. Hop to Idaho from Brighton in 3 hops. I'm not kidding haha

And st George (eventually) in the same number

[ember torrent]

Walker would be P.I.M.P…

[prisma saddle]

My wfe was asking me if she would be able to message me from heber girls camp . she will be there 23-28.. im like nope. not setup there yet

hmmm https://www.printables.com/model/815769-enclosure-case-insert-for-rak-wisblock-meshtastic

[white field]

Yeah, the Uintas area is gonna be a cool usecase. Lots of potential users out there in summer. 😄

[hallow dagger]

Been out of the loop here for a while. See a lot of talk about POTM and NPR updates. What's the TL;DR?

[prisma saddle]

@obsidian storm @real cedar

[hallow dagger]

Anyone been up to NP yet? The path I took was grueling but was the best I could find.

[prisma saddle]

I think that was planned this week.. unless @real cedar

[real cedar]

I was planning on it next week

[real cedar]

Haha well we updated it

I'm sorry we did so without permission

We couldn't contact you and the devs made it so that we needed to

Basically you want all nodes to be 2.6.9 or greater

The moment I saw your echo I sent you a message on the mesh about it

Did you receive it

Once you have a node at 2.6.9 we can add your admin key so you can remote admin POTM

As for the rest of the mesh. We are planning on connecting st george, Moab, Idaho and Nevada altogether in less than 7 hops. We have a community up in Idaho near twin falls that wants to do so. I'm putting promontory point up

Batmans putting up thurston

I'm fixing NPR

Jacobs putting up stansbury

New mode too. Router Late. So POTM AUR and Stansbury are all relatively lower elevation. We are making those router lates

Peaks are routers. All others are client and client mute

Uhhh let's see what else.. @hallow dagger Well you know what ask away I'll fill you in

There's a lot 😂

[hallow dagger]

No worries. I don't know why I wasn't receiuving any PN from discord. Just fill me in on what you changed.

[real cedar]

Okay so it's not completely done yet so we have been working on filtering all router nodes

Bash was planning on adding a filter to your node

[hallow dagger]

What are you planning with NPR? I saw several mentions of a filter. I always suspected interference from all the powerful antennas on and pointing at NP

[prisma saddle]

not bad.

[real cedar]

Moving to a 1 watt node, a large outdoor rated acasom cavity filter and a compact box with a 5 dBi antenna

I have the design mostly thought out but would love your help

https://gpio.com/products/915-mhz-ism-band-pass-bandpass-filter-with-26-mhz-bandwidth

We use those on raks

But this is what I have for NPR
https://acasom.com/products/915mhz-5-types-cavity-filter-for-helium-network-filter-waterproof-lora-indoor-use-high-out-band-rejection

I wanted to know how to make this as compact as possible under a 10W solar panel or 25W

As for the rest of the planning. I'll DM you

I'm just glad your back haha. We were about to set out on a path to fix the nodes cuz we thought life just happened haha

So firmware wise 2.6 is a lot nicer. It stores the last hop around the route. I think the logic is that it stores this for the purpose of aiding the routing of a packet. But I still need to check the code to confirm

[hallow dagger]

I was consumed by another project until recently. Looking forward to catching up here. I'm stoked about the potential to route so far with all these new and planned nodes.

[real cedar]

Yeah same. I tried jumping the gun on thurston and almost died in a blizzard I was that eager 🤣 ahh what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. If you add me as a friend (DM privacy) I'll send you a proposed map

Of what we know so far

[real cedar]

Hey are you a HAM by chance

[hallow dagger]

No not a HAM.

I don't imagine we've made a friend yet that has access to the Oquirrh peaks?

[real cedar]

Ahh.. Haha your gonna laugh.. Bash and I were hunting the frequencies for you. I popped into the 59 HAM network to say hi and look for you and they got a laugh and said nah gdane's not a HAM but if we see him we will tell him someone on 51 is looking for him

And I went to channel 20 doing the same and 37 and 45

Hahaha

[real cedar]

We do. Jacob has a node out there. We are planning deseret with Littleton.. Stansbury is obsoleting the oquirhs. Marys nipple is alive and Boulter peak is deployed

I'm gonna do the newfoundland mtns on desert peak and Goshute for Wendover as well. There's a couple I can't mention publicly because the user asked for that to be in a DM haha but let's just say we will have spectacular coverage of BCC and a route to the uintahs

[hallow dagger]

I mean vehicle access to Nelson or surrounding peaks. The path I took to NP was via Bates Canyon. Great trail for the first 3-1/2 miles, then steep bush-wacking the last mile.

We have anything in the Henry Mtns yet, or other coverage for the vast Southern wilderness? There was talk about that last fall.

[real cedar]

The road is now gated cuz it passes through private mine land. I'll be hiking sadly but I'd love to know the route that's easiest

Also @umbral ice is placing a node on Harrison Peak Tower (Idaho) which will see promontory and deseret... He has tower access there

Its gonna be sweet. He's got an entire community in twin falls and I have a vested interest to connect my families places in Mountain Home, Boise and Sun Valley

[real cedar]

Not yet but the tushars and Mt Ellen are potentials rn. So is swasey peak. I'm planing a route to st George lol

[umbral ice]

I got to thinking about Sun Valley, I know where there are radio towers up on Picabo

[real cedar]

In 3 hops from SLC with LOS to NOR

[real cedar]

Do you have a plug there?

[umbral ice]

Maybe

I'm going to make phone calls

[hallow dagger]

I saw talk about "zebras". Is that referring to the helium miners? What's the advantage to using those?

[prisma saddle]

nebras?

[real cedar]

Nebras yeah
Well 1) RPI 3 CM onboard
2) low ish power 1 watt node
3) ultra cheap
4) Really nice enclosure

Bash is making the ebyte 1 watt modules for it with a taoglass filter baked in

[hallow dagger]

doh, spell check

you able ota update those?

[real cedar]

Uhhmm no not unless you put an LTE card in it

Which bash apparently ordered some

Those are cheap and there is a slot but the power use goes up a lot

[hallow dagger]

that would be incredible for the less accessible router nodes.

[real cedar]

I for one am working on completely etching away all traces of the branding and repainting them

I do not want people to think it's a miner

And the nebra is well known to anti miners

Very well known

So remove the branding.. Etch primer it.. Paint it black or white

Something to make it look different

[hallow dagger]

Where NPR is now is slightly on the East face; better for the SL valley. What felt like the true peak up there would probably be a better location for it for LOS to Western and Northern nodes.

... and would be on BLM/FS land

[real cedar]

So I'm starting to wonder a bit. Cuz I'm also planning mt Olympus.. The idea here is routers on both side fill in each others gap

They are a bit close but I don't think they will present an issue

Actually the nice thing is you'll essentially have a long line.. Olympus --> Nelson --> Deseret --> Goshute

My goal is 100% reliability for the populated area and highways haha.

I found a place in the uintahs with a radio tower!

Epic LOS for where it is

sees farm creek and roan haha

and the wind rivers

Oh thats a big LOL

Wont even take many hops. Maybe a project for when I hike Nystrom (on my peakbagging list)

[prisma saddle]

almost go from riverton utah to riverton Wy lol

[real cedar]

Im telling you.. strategically placed extremely distant routers can get you a very long ways with meshtastic haha

I have the odd desire to see a well done mesh map with node in Idaho, Utah, Colorado, Wyoming, and nevada all able to chat with one another.. I mean how hilarious would it be to have the "Intermountain mesh" featured on the communities page and we span 5 states haha. I guess I would get quite the laugh from it.. Im sure it would end up show cased on the meshtastic forums by someone

I mean with Malice suggesting a couple mountains.. Yellowstones to SLC is not hard to do at all

[prisma saddle]

how would the nodedb do with all that?

[real cedar]

Im not sure. I know on Raks and microcontrollers your limited to what 100 or 200 nodes

but SF upgrades that

and if you have a home node that can support more then I think 500 is the limit IDK

its not something ive looked into

[umbral ice]

@real cedar still waiting to hear, but even if we can't put it on the tower I've got in mind there are other towers or options.

[real cedar]

Wanna do something cool
Go to wisp.heywhatsthat.com
Put all your towers in up to 7

Standardize the height

Set the LOS calc distance to 100 miles

Change the view shed colors and view all

Boom Instant router distinguishable coverage map

[umbral ice]

ooooh

[real cedar]

Yeah try it out. It's pretty nice but limited to 7 towers

I'll spoil the surprise

In QGIS there is an RF prop tool

I'm working on a big map with imported USGS lidar data

But I'm having to learn this program. It's LC is a bit steep but I figure it's an awesome tool if you know how to use it

[obsidian storm]

You live! Did you get my text?

I'm guessing that's what prompted your return? If not, crazy coincidence

Oh yup! You did.

[real cedar]

😂

[obsidian storm]

Ok, so I updated your node. Unfortunately, the newer versions, when you upgrade them they lose the config.

[real cedar]

How to get a mesh nerds attention

Upgrade his firmware without permission. 🤣

I let him know already bash hahah..

He did want to know your planned mods

[obsidian storm]

Ok. I just need a public key and I can add it to the admin keys and give it back.

I was just going to add a gpio labs filter to it

And an extra battery so there's 3 instead of just 2

I think the extra battery will solve the winter problems

[real cedar]

Gdane if you got the funds and want to help with additional placements let us know

We got at least two of us in here with 1000s of battery cells we are giving away for free to one another for this

Lots and lots

[real cedar]

🤣

Hit up me or Panda

@fiery sparrow you still around to give out cells for people or are you out?

[fiery sparrow]

yeah, I'll be planning to make deliveries this weekend

[real cedar]

awesome. Just wanted to make sure you were okay with me telling others your a solid source

[obsidian storm]

Nebra LTE card. I'll let everyone know how it goes

[hallow dagger]

Did POTM have winter issues? It doesn't have the low-temp cells that NPR has.

[obsidian storm]

So the solar panel placement isn't great.

It's straight up and down

Instead of at a 41°

[hallow dagger]

Yeah not optimal but sufficient except in extended periods of blocked sun. That's mostly in winter when the sun is low on the horizon anyway.

[obsidian storm]

It almost died a few times over the winter

So that's what we're trying to fix

[hallow dagger]

In that case I think a 3rd cell would be sifficient.

[obsidian storm]

The problem is that those batteries really don't like being charged in the cold below 32°F so we have to wait for the sun to heat up the box for the charging to really work

And you get some of those extended weeks with very low sun and very shadowed

And it gets pretty low

[hallow dagger]

Do you have 3 cold weather cells?

[obsidian storm]

So fixing that panel angle would probably do it, but with the way you glued it to the box... It's better probably just to add an extra battery or two

I don't have any cold weather cells. Just overspecing it should probably do well enough.

But we could buy some. They're on sale right now

https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/molicel-p42a

I think just upping it to 3-4 18650s is good enough and those are free right now

[fiery sparrow]

@obsidian storm I have some 21700s as well

[obsidian storm]

Oh man.

I think I have a new best friend

Lol

I might have done a dumb thing and ended up buying 20 of those XAIO nodes when they were on sale

Now I'm stuck figuring out how to build all these nodes to cover the wilderness areas

This is a good thing. Just... Don't stay up too late the night of a sale when you've just gotten into a new hobby

[white field]

Mt Ellen is planned and I think the roads are clear, but I don't have time to do it atm. I'm gonna be out of town from next week until July.

I'm gonna go to a highline meetup near Moab in November and I really want it it installed before then. 😄

[fiery sparrow]

@obsidian storm how many of those you want? Those are just loose, not bundled up like the others

[obsidian storm]

How many are you willing to part with? I was talking with @real cedar about trying to figure out how I could get about 80 18650s

[white field]

Btw, for all of you worrying about capacity. Do not.

I had a node with two of those Molicels at 11k ft and it never dropped below 87% charge all winter.

1x would have been 100% sufficient.

In fact, I have a second node at 8k ft that survived the entire winter with $5 flat AMZ lipo cell. The temps we are getting here are not that severe and I think the charge/drain rates are so low that it's not a problem.

[hallow dagger]

I concur. NPR has just two Molicels and a vertically oriented panel.

[white field]

some of the more recent data from solar:4

[hallow dagger]

Firm believer in the KISS principle.

[real cedar]

Noice!

[real cedar]

It could be ADC drift we are seeing tbch

Rather than actual drops in percentage or SOC

[real cedar]

As I said.. I'll let you know after I unpack some stuff at the space. Rufio gets first pick

As he helped me acquire them

But then for sure.. You can have a some

[fiery sparrow]

I've got about that many wrapped up and ready to go on top of the other 13 pack of pink samsungs. These would be a combination of Sanyo Reds and Sanyo Greens.

[real cedar]

I am making mine over engineered for my own purpose. Nobody need follow in said foot steps. I have a desire to snow shoe a lot this winter and being able to get to nodes over winter is something I want to be able to do and I generally want my nodes to last a couple months without solar if something should happen. But that's for my fun cuz I basically have free cells

[obsidian storm]

I think that'll work great

[real cedar]

If you need them now bash

Go with panda

😂

Mines got a lead time

I've got to extract the new sets

But hey more to come later. Hope another e mobility company goes bankrupt so I can get more good lithium haha

[prisma saddle]

stats on those?

[real cedar]

I'm guessing they are your run of the mill Samsung 50 series or Lishen 5k mah

Those are the most common in ewaste

With the 50G being the Mac daddy you want to find or the MJ series from LG

[prisma saddle]

@fiery sparrow id gladly take some if you would be near herriman again. if not next time.

Hmm have a non charging scooter i might be pulling apart.

[real cedar]

Honestly the fact they are 21700s.. Those are unbeliably good cells even when they are knock off vapcells and Svolts

Literally the base construction affords little to cheap out on

And the lishens I've found are as good as the Samsung 50Gs

I've seen so many brands of cells doing this work

If your buying brand new go name brand

But used.. Who cares

And if your the kind of person who wants pre constructed certified cells and you don't want to mess with the used stuff or risk it..

https://liionwholesale.com/
https://illumn.com/

Just giving everyone options. Don't overthink the batteries

[prisma saddle]

thanks dude!

[real cedar]

As far as the Chinese brands go in order
Molicel
Lishen
EVE
Headway
Vapcell
Svolt
Hakadi
Sino-Watt

Name brands
Panasonic
LG
Samsung
Sanyo
Liion brand (rebranded Samsung's)

I'm basing this off.. Tested capacity. Internal resistance numbers new and used.. Temperature along the charge curve and cycle counts supported

But on an iot device.. Your never gonna notice or care on those differences. The most would be how often you replace them and I imagine on most of these you won't have to for at least 5 years

For my nodes and my entertainment I'm chucking 20 Ah of LG M52 21700s in each node at least. It's mostly because it keeps my counts easy. 4 each.. 5200 mah each

I plan to mount them under the roof of the bat houses haha

If people don't mind lifepo4 instead. When I'm done charging and equalizing and testing all these. People are welcome to ask for some

[prisma saddle]

dang dude. your house is one big bomb.

[real cedar]

Most of these are sourced from defunct and junk yarded non fully digital parking meters and boxes I found in a junkyard haha

So far no cells test bad

Some rest at about 80% spec. Others over 90%

[real cedar]

It is.. I.. Have been culling e-waste and lithium because it kind boils my blood that most landfills are a giant lithium fire waiting to happen now with good lithium found in the most unlikely of places

These seems to be LISHEN and EVE brand lifepo4

With blue being EVE under the brand minimax

And the greens being straight lishens

[prisma saddle]

i’d pull apart my old rc cells but most of them are puffed.

i still use them and. garage them. even though the wife said to buy new.

[real cedar]

I try to give lithium as much of a second life as possible

[prisma saddle]

yup.

[real cedar]

I also have 55 LTO 18650s
24 Toshiba SCIB LTOs at 20 ah each (prismatic)
137 Sodium Ions (CATL B grade rebranded at 1500 mah each)

[prisma saddle]

sometimes when balancing them. force it above. then recharge. like charges error cause a cell is too low.

prob bad. but meh. lol

saves me buying 500$ of new rc batts.

[real cedar]

I roll around to junkyards and electronics waste centers who don't want to pay to dispose of lithium... And ask if I can freely take some off their hands. I have an entire spreadsheet of models of scooters, E mobility packs, handicap store wagons erc

[prisma saddle]

oh nice

[real cedar]

And I'm like well boys.. You have any of these in.. If so.. Might I take them off you hand? 🤣

Kinda like how biodiesel producers roam around to get veg oil from fast food places

[pseudo kestrel]

"Hey, can I take this potentially explosive thing off your hands so you don't have to worry about it?"

"Yes, please. Take 12"

[prisma saddle]

does batteries plus have them?

[real cedar]

There are two businesses I know of that provide these for you to buy online if you want to pay someone to go find them across the US..

Battery clearing house and battery hookup. They do the same thing. They just roam around to e-waste but at a grander scale. They are the guys who have licenses to dispose of it but recover the good stuff for second life. You can buy almost every cell I've recovered locally from them. I think they are based in Cali?

I just go free whenever I can because DUH

[real cedar]

Pretty much.. And sometimes they are like hey can we have the casing for smelting down aluminum and stuff.. And I'm like hell yeah if you can safely remove that and save me the time.. You can have all the metal casings

Now here's the holy grail guys

I want to find a junked Tesla battery pack with 4680s

Tell me its not tempting

Or the older tesla packs with 21700s in them

TELL me you wouldnt risk it to discharge the pack fully and crack it open 🤣

I so would

[prisma saddle]

how many do they have them ?

[real cedar]

One second I'll pull the numbers for the 2018s

4,416 21700 cells

🤣

[pseudo kestrel]

~100kWh of battery

[real cedar]

Bruh if I got a Tesla battery I'd split it with who helped me and we would be selling that.. And only giving free to friends

[prisma saddle]

holy cow.

[real cedar]

Tesla 21700s are so freaking good

You can easily cell used ones over 5 dollars a cell

[pseudo kestrel]

I have some experience doing cursed shit with 240V stuff, lemme know if you find a pack to shuck and I'd love to help XD

[real cedar]

DTM

[prisma saddle]

samsung ? or something else

[real cedar]

No

[pseudo kestrel]

I think they contracted a custom chemistry with LG Electrochem?

[real cedar]

GIGA

they went giga on the 21700s

And 4680s

[prisma saddle]

i know. tesla is working with samsung for new ones. dunno if they got it right yet.

[real cedar]

But the oldest 21700s are not samsung

They are Panasonic

NCA lithium Ion

Or Nickel Cobalt Aluminum

Each cell has a capacity of approximately 4800–5000mAh

[prisma saddle]

huh what ever that means.

[real cedar]

Do you see why it's the holy grail but tesla batteries are difficult to source. The US gov made it so that EV companies are mandated by law to deal with junked cars packs. So getting one usually means being a bit clever or nice to a junkyard dude because it's the kinda thing Tesla does not take kindly to.. Particularly the relatively new 4680

[real cedar]

That's on the 46mm x 80mm cells

Not the 21700s

[prisma saddle]

kk

[real cedar]

But yeah man.. Bash can I disassembly a Tesla battery in the hackerspace parking lot if I find one. Pretty.. Pretty please 🤣😭

[prisma saddle]

parking lot. lol.

[real cedar]

If I burn down the neighboring complex it helps.. Our node will have better LOS 😂

[prisma saddle]

how big of a hole would that leave?

[real cedar]

I'm obviously joking if I'm doing that it's happening on that weird concrete PAD in the desert surrounded by salt

There's no fucking way I'm doing it near anything that can catch fire

That way if I leave a crater.. Salt water will just fill it in later on and hide my gigantic scar

[prisma saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/ralph-wiggum-taste-like-burning-dying-food-poison-the-simpsons-gif-8656424

[real cedar]

But the goal is recovering all the cells. The biggest issue with Tesla batteries is you need specialized cutters.. They need to be 1000V insulated. And you need the pack to be 100% discharged

So you can do the work safely

Then you recharge the cells individually after cleanup and hope for the best. Some will die as a natural result

[prisma saddle]

wow lots of work.

[real cedar]

If you want nice things it requires work to get to

[obsidian storm]

This is the simple & small XAIO node

[real cedar]

That node next to the batteries makes me laugh

Its so tiny

Haha

[real cedar]

What mppt are you using

[prisma saddle]

agreed.

[obsidian storm]

sd05crma

[real cedar]

ROFL is it available sans tariff

Like on amazon

[obsidian storm]

I don't know. I bought it during tariffs

It was cheap

[real cedar]

Fair

I need some for kaczynsky nodes

When it says lipo that's polymer right not lifepo4

I might pick some up tbch.
I have 10 bq24074 true MPPTs 1.5A 6-24V input

Once I exhaust those I might go with the cheap mppts

US PCB makers hurt too much

Chinese are slapped with tariffs

My BMS will have to wait until the orange swan stops dicking with shit

[prisma saddle]

mppt is solar power management for charging batteries and bms is batt power shutoff if too low right?

[real cedar]

BMS is battery management system so it's the charge controller, and manager of the cells

And MPPT is a maximum power point tracker

[prisma saddle]

eh. ok. trying to understand all those.

[real cedar]

What I was hoping to create was an all chemistry BMS that featured cell isolation and a lot of nice BMS features

But they are overkill for the project

I wanted it so I had a design that I could use not just on low power stuff that was plug n play but also higher power IOT stuff

The idea was someone slaps cells I'm. The entire unit can be plugged into any panel.. It auto detects the panel.. It auto detects the chemistry and SOC.. And for all intents and purposes.. The end user just has to plug batteries in and forget about it

[fiery sparrow]

ok, so I don't lose track.. please re-state how many you want.

[fiery sparrow]

@obsidian storm have a brick of 52 and 4 bundles of 7 set aside along with your pack of 13.

[obsidian storm]

That'll work perfectly! And any extras I'll make sure to distribute here or give back to you

[fiery sparrow]

@prisma saddle how many were you needing?

[prisma saddle]

can i have one more green. and 8 21700? if avail. if not i can do all green.

[fiery sparrow]

another bundle of 7 greens, or just a single?

[prisma saddle]

a single unless that’s too much

[pseudo kestrel]

Doesn't the pack have internal cut-offs that split it into 3-4 smaller lower volatge packs specifically for servicing the pack?

The Leaf's packs have a fuse that splits them into 2 ~190V halves

[pseudo kestrel]

is that "Baby Xiao" That I saw earlier today?

[obsidian storm]

Sure is!

[fiery sparrow]

yeah I have a single.. was working on a pack with that type of cell currently.

[prisma saddle]

these any good? https://a.co/d/iDCDClK

[obsidian storm]

Sure, but we can just make you one with a spot welder for free

[prisma saddle]

lol. so true.

[obsidian storm]

And just wrap it in kapton tape

That has a nice mount

But it's flat which might take up too much space

[prisma saddle]

sounds like i need to get a spot welder.

[obsidian storm]

Or just meetup with one of us

I'm always in SLC at the local hackerspace on Thursdays, that's a good time

Or we can meetup another time

But having a spot welder is fun

[prisma saddle]

i’d love to come. but kid karate thursdays. and think the space is a bit of a drive from herriman if i recall.

[obsidian storm]

Well, if you're in Herriman...

DM

[real cedar]

@hallow dagger
On NPR
What is the ID and OD of the pole? How tall. What material. Is it capped. Can it be drilled with cobalt. 😂 I need these details

Sorry to bug you at this our we are out at the rock on mb

That Stansbury AUR link for router lates is gonna be epic for rebroadcasts that are needed

NPR desert olympus is just beyond OP.. Just thinking about it looking at the terrain. Can't wait to place them

@leaden crow @obsidian storm DM me your public key

[umbral ice]

I can't help with any of it, but I applaud your dedication to the cause lmao. Bravo

[obsidian storm]

Done!

The caps I bought for the board are a bit too big. I'll need to do another order for caps. I don't think it'll slow us down, the ebyte chips got on a plane about 6 hours ago which means we have about a week left before they arrive

I'll get the right size so we can avoid doing this:

[prisma saddle]

how did that go last night?

[real cedar]

Well. We found out my mini bike doesn't mind a 62 mile jaunt 🤣

[real cedar]

Lmao.. Well.. Rip.. The can claimed to have the correct size

1.8 gal

Probably 45

The only part that is rough on my bike is sustained high load.. Like its modified obviously to deal with it but it can get a little hot

[prisma saddle]

nice! was this stansberry or just out for a drive?

I dont know what the rock on MB is. lol

[south gale]

The Heltec V2 variant is still available in the source code for MT and if you are able to build yourself then you can build & flash the V2 perfectly fine - and it works absolutely 100% - I did it myself just last week.
Unfortunately it's no longer available to install via the MT web flasher though which is a pretty stupid decision if you ask me as there are lots of V2 devices still out there, and they are also still available to buy dirt cheap on AliExpress.
Yes - they use more power than the V3 and the battery management isn't as good - but they do work absolutely fine (and some argue that the sx1276 module is better/more powerful than the sx1262 used in the V3 - I have certainly found that to be the case myself - I get much better SNR and distance on my Heltec V2 (sx1276) compared to my Heltec WirelessStickLite (sx1262)).

MeshCore supported V2 right out of the gate, and still does... but yes - a much smaller (but growing) community - only 2 nodes in Utah according to the map.

[real cedar]

The rock is the huge faulted escarpment rock near the saltair palace..

On mb means mini bikes and nah this was the real mini bike Mondays not the 801 mini bikes.. They can't make it 5 miles down a drag race road without breaking down haha. We ride for fun and take the bikes wild places

Tbch the best upgrade I made was billet interior parts

I can "sustain" 9500 rpm without problems but I like to stay in its happy spot

[prisma saddle]

ah ok so was not placing a node.. how boring .. lol

[prisma saddle]

weird, keep loosing npr on my node list.

[white field]

Holy shit I just 1-hopped a trace out to skyline

This is insane

Someone go replace NPR asap lol

Wait these are consistently working, praise be to the ionosphere

Okay, only got two but that was still insane

That’s easily 100 miles

[prisma saddle]

wow! lol

ya npr is on the fritz i think

[obsidian storm]

Such a weird traceroute

[prisma saddle]

there we go back on my node list.. not sure why it was gone..

[real cedar]

Its not about fast as much as its about durability. I run a juggernaut torque convert. Genuine mikuni. Billet parts. Stainless jets.. Big tube frame. Go power sports beefed up Aramid core belt

[hallow dagger]

It was a 2" diam steel pole, that much I know because my u-bolts fit. I'll see if I can dig up some close-up pics.

[real cedar]

NPR seems to be struggle bussing. I was directly under it last night in perfect LOS and with a high gain I was getting signal bad :/

Don't worry I'll get up there soon

It doesn't have to last too much longer

[real cedar]

Awesome man.. Any of that info alone helps. I just need to know cuz my buddy and I are doing up something custom and awesome

I'm giving up a femtofox with GPS and RTC for this haha

But it will be worth it

Full meshbot. Imma make NPR a Meshing-around node

That or I'm going rpi so I can remotely toggle WiFi and hit it with a Yagi as my connection 🤣

It's the lowest power way to do it over that of an LTE card

I'll figure out the directional WiFi link and a safe known spot to beam it where only I and admins know where to stand with a WiFi yagi

That way I don't need to hike to service the BBS

Unless @obsidian storm show me where to get an LTE module for a nebra

Then I might just give it a data connection

[obsidian storm]

https://ebay.us/m/Dk4jxt

[prisma saddle]

i can see my house! lol

not really ha ha

[hallow dagger]

Dunno why those came out low res, but you can probably see from that. There's a junction box, then another short section of pole, and then some sort of adapter/union on top.

[obsidian storm]

Where is this?

[prisma saddle]

thats npr.

[real cedar]

You asked for awesome bash. I'll make it our main BBS point. It will see everything

[hallow dagger]

The pole is probably 8-10 feet so you'll need a step/ladder to work at the top.

[real cedar]

Ehh fair enough I have my high RPM geared down so it all translates to torque haha

It rips belts a bit more though

[real cedar]

I will bring a step stool

We are taking mini bikes up the closed road

Risk or not

We will take the ticket. We want to take our tools

🤣

[hallow dagger]

They'll only get you about 3.5 miles. Be preprared to schlep/crawl the last mile+.

[real cedar]

Thanks. Will a small mint mobile work at NPR. Does it get T-Mobile up there or is it AT&T first net only

[obsidian storm]

No clue

[prisma saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/rocketeer-the-rocketeer-wave-jet-pack-gif-8729204985982093685

[obsidian storm]

I've never used an LTE card like this

[prisma saddle]

really just need this

[real cedar]

Nelson peak road from the magna side not toele

[hallow dagger]

I use T-Mobile and I had signal at the top.

[real cedar]

We are gonna hop around the gate 😂

[real cedar]

Excellent

[real cedar]

I'll figure it out

[obsidian storm]

I was waiting for my card to come in and I was going to test it out

[hallow dagger]

Ah, the actual access road. God speed.

[prisma saddle]

ha ha

[obsidian storm]

@real cedar should I buy a $120 cav filter for lake mtn?

[real cedar]

Don't worry. We are short stout and his and I's mini bike are quieter deeper long pipe exhausts with big expansion mufflers

We will slip through quick.. Not loiter and not attract attention

https://www.google.com/maps/place/40.611834,+-112.097863/@40.6119873,-112.0980406,18z/data=!3m1!1e3!4m4!3m3!8m2!3d40.6118343!4d-112.0978632?utm_campaign=ml-ardi&g_ep=Eg1tbF8yMDI1MDYwNF8wIOC7DCoASAJQAQ%3D%3D

There's a gate there but it allows cyclists and motorbikes through or at least the sign says they are permitted when the gates open in summer

My assumption is it's unmonitored for the most part

[real cedar]

Talk to Utah ham about the LTE interference. I would say yes but if you don't need it there then don't have it

Filter where it makes sense for economic reasons with 1 watt nodes

[hallow dagger]

@real cedar If you're replacing NPR completely then you can just bring mine back down with you and I'll grab it from you and put it somewhere else.

[real cedar]

Hey quit catching me on camera 🤣

[real cedar]

I will certainly do that for you bud. Where would you like it dropped off. Local hackerspace non profit is an option to keep it safe

Bash and I are there every thursday

[hallow dagger]

Works for me.

[real cedar]

Excellent. Well soon (TM) my buddy and I will prepare the bikes and get permission from the ladies and sort out a time frame

[real cedar]

(Me thinks if you put a higher gain antenna on it 😂) you will 1 hop a lot more

@obsidian storm @leaden crow what is the maximum power draw of the nebra.. Balls to the wall.
I do all my worst case calcs as if someone was prime 95'ing the pi and transmitting at the same time.

LTE is still TBD btw. I want to secure a really good price or its not happening

Cuz thats a monthly cost for me

In order to disguise it I will make it look identical to a weather station and etch engrave NELSON PEAK WEATHER STATION

[obsidian storm]

The pi CM3, at the peak, can draw 9w

[hallow dagger]

Here's a higher-res for posterity

[real cedar]

I'm putting a 25W solar panel on it

Cool

I'll be using the laser engraver at the space if someone let's me

I'll hit up the phed

We are gonna make this look extremely pro

[obsidian storm]

You'll need to watch the YouTube video

[real cedar]

Whatever I need to do or someone else can run it for me

Bottom line is I'm gonna get that sucker engraved and etched and painted

I'm aiming for a 5 dBi Alfa omni

Acasom filter

[obsidian storm]

https://youtu.be/g4HUG4jeN6g

Or I can run it for you

[real cedar]

Thanks

[real cedar]

Yes please do. What do you need from me to do so

I want to do it in Fira Code font..

NELSON PEAK WEATHER STATION
ID: NPR
😂

You know give it some logical.. Oh that's what that is. I'll be putting a fake anemometer up on it.. Pro mounted

It will quite literally look like a pro grade weather box. Haha.

@hallow dagger So what we figured out in terms of the config end. All of us have been experimenting with very quiet node intervals.

We realized if it goes too long without a broadcast the node reappears as new. That's undesirable so 24 hrs is the untalkiness ceiling so to speak.

Now nobody has to follow this religiously but I found a pretty happy set of numbers since they are super easy to remember
Sensor data: no more frequent than 1800 to provide room for normal use and social comms
Routers: 86400 except for sensor data
Router_Late: 43200 except for sensors
Roof Clients and Strategic Clients: 21600
Client Mute (indoor devices and trackers): 86400 except for sensors sensors.

So say you get a new mesh node. It comes online and gets configured right. Now see every time a node sees a new node it will auto request node info but let's say for whatever reason that's not working. Well in theory the device would first see its neighboring clients. This is probably what most people care about the most. It will then see or know the existence of the router lates.. Then finally the routers.. And the benefit to this is it keeps routers and router late quiet and prioritizing rebroadcasting traffic (their primary job)..

Does that sort of make sense. Again the numbers were only set as /2 to make it easy to remember for myself. That's kinda my logic. It has not much rhythm or rhyme to it other than to quiet my infra nodes down a ton to really have them serve you guys more than anything else

It will have to be RAK or heltec based

You said you had something together already

We can work off of that?

Oh I'm engraving it directly on the Nebra body. Then etching and painting

Underneath the main brand sticker

What's the plastic wrap

Do you have a gpio labs filter for that

I'd pick that up and some adapters from mini circuits or onelinkrf on amazon

What's the broadcast power before I recommend that

Ooof

You'll need an acasom

Don't filter

It will be fine without

Its meant to connect Logan over largely unpopulated mountains anyways

As much as I'd get a kick out of 120 dollar acasoms all over

That's a lot of money to lose if damaged or confiscated

I talked to the maker. I got a hold of the person that designs the acasoms

Asked him if we can get a tighter custom filter for 51s frequency. He said the tighter it goes the higher the price due to the machining tolerances of the cavity and I asked for a quote on a 5 MHz wide

Just to see what he could provide

[obsidian storm]

The laser at the hacker space can't engrave on metal

[real cedar]

Well crap that's of no use to me then. That's okay though I'll see if I know someone who can

[obsidian storm]

What if we need to change freq? I'm not sure locking in that tight a freq is a good idea

[real cedar]

I brought this concern up with tight filters initially but the kind of problem that would warrant changing the frequency.. At that point it would be easier to make our own unique firmware and break compatiblity.

That would be the downside to the tight filter. Tight filters help near LTE towers and such but for metastatic they are kind of useless anywhere else other than an extremely noisey env

[prisma saddle]

@real cedar i was going to throw a temp sensor in deseret but won’t be here till monday. you have any rak ones and i could give you this once it comes?

[prisma saddle]

@ember torrent if you have that pipe still i think we are going to try it.

[real cedar]

Take your time. No rush. I can always do it another week

NPR became the priority haha

[prisma saddle]

no prob. i won’t be avail next weekend the 21st. . would maybe be the one after that the 28th. if your not ready or avail no biggie. everything else but that and the pipe are ready.

[real cedar]

Just more time for the snow to melt up there which is what I need to happen. I can auger through ice. It just sucks

[prisma saddle]

sounds good.

[obsidian storm]

Wow. Gpio labs is slow. Took them a whole week just to prepare the order before shipping

[prisma saddle]

I have an extra you could have if you can’t wait.

[obsidian storm]

I can wait. Just excited

[real cedar]

So something one should know. He etches and does his own PCBs 😂

Kinda like what I was telling you about

[obsidian storm]

But why?

Are you sure?

[real cedar]

Simple. Cheaper haha

Theh are two layers boards

[obsidian storm]

With silkscreen

And vias

[real cedar]

Yeah that's not hardly do at all

If you know what your doing

Its just like machining

I'll show you the process one of these thursdays

Its just nasty

Lots of awful chemicals

[obsidian storm]

I've done it, just without silkscreen or vias

[real cedar]

My last work place we did it with both. One of the struggles we had was a lot of PCB houses have some size and volume they cater to

If you fall outside of it.. Its stupid expensive

So for our filtered preamp boards at my last work place we added the capability at small scale tongue machine shop

The hard part about your own PCBs is not just the accuracy is the consistency. But once you've figured it out.. I hate to say it.. Expansion of that is the next hardest problem (production at scale with good yields)

This is probably beyond the scale of our hobby but I can definitely show you the nitty gritty of how PCBs are made in the houses themselves

You need a UV laser btw

Or LEDs those work too but that can be less precise depending on what your trying to do. What you apply is a photoresistive laminate to the FR4 or Isola or whatever you bulk sourced

You make a photomask that had the circuits drawn out from the Gerber for whatever layer

You obtain a good amount of ferric chloride.. You could use curpic.. But it requires work at the end to get back in a reusable state. Anyways not the point

[obsidian storm]

Yeah, that sounds like way too much

TIL about these stainless steel zip ties

[real cedar]

So the process goes like this. You clean the copper clad core..you do this so the copper-clad core is cleaned to remove oxides and contaminants using a chemical bath (usually sulfiric acid). A photosensitive film (can be liquid or dry) is applied to both sides of the core. Dry film is laminated using a hot-roll laminator, ensuring no air bubbles. This is critica lol. You then take a photomask which is basically a transparent film with the circuit pattern and you align it over the photoresist. This is where precision matters. UV light is then shined through the mask, hardening the exposed photoresist (for negative resist) or softening it (for positive resist) depending on what you are doing.. Then youndevelop.. Just like film.. The unexposed (or exposed, for positive resist) photoresist is washed away using a solution most film developers are familiar with, revealing the copper pattern. Now you must etch it and so you take the exposed copper is etched away using an etchant (e.g., ferric chloride or ammonium persulfate), leaving the circuit traces protected by photoresist. Your not done with horrible chems yet. You must now strip the board. The remaining photoresist is removed with a stripper (usually lye), exposing the copper traces.

For silk screen all you add to the process is UV curable ink

For solder mask sort of similar

For vias, tented vias and buried vias there are various methods. Chief among them is CNC and electeoless nickel deposition

I'd LOVE to spin that up at home safely in a garage

The capability is priceless for someone like me to have but I'd never recommend it unless you were selling or doing ultra custom stuff and you had the CNC to do it

[real cedar]

Oh the above is just a summary dawg

Far from the verbose process

Just trying to let you know yes the capability can be built at home (with a home made cnc or a FOX or whatever) but the chems are horrible

Anyways I'm not teaching HOW in person at the space with the real deal 🤣 we don't have that capability but if you wanted a deeper run down I could always whiteboard it. I think it's pretty cool from a machining and production standpoint.

Now I doubt this is the reason it's so slow. Truth be told I think the primary reason is.. He's a one man show haha

@obsidian storm last spiel I promise haha
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwffcaSn5hI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brIVOF7fmTs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIL-pU82dOs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8t82OQXefM

😂 Im so doing some of these

[obsidian storm]

Ok, the CNC mill is cool

[real cedar]

Yes it is.. He has a better v3 version where for a base he used concrete to make an ultra flat stable surface.

He's also got a couple 4 axis 3d printers

[ember torrent]

The carbon tube or the big rectangle steel?

[real cedar]

Its gotta be the non metallic

So which ever that is

[ember torrent]

Carbon tube.
Where you want it?

[real cedar]

Well first what are the dimensions and does the tube have end caps. Kinda want to know what I'm working with here

Ideally we are putting it on deseret

So the node doesnt attract lightning

[ember torrent]

60” long. 1.510” od. 1.375” id.

I’d guess it’s 301 resin.
https://mccfc.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/PL-301.pdf

No endcaps.

[obsidian storm]

Does anyone have a particular opinion on SMA Male to N Female Bulkhead?
https://www.amazon.com/DHT-Electronics-coaxial-assembly-bulkhead/dp/B00COX9MTG

Or do you think this ^ is fine?

[prisma saddle]

or these https://a.co/d/82s7yZu or these https://a.co/d/37E4TCn. all seem the same to me. but tested their stats. but all have worked. from what i can see.

[obsidian storm]

@real cedar I don't think you need a nebra

for NRP

Something like this would work amazing

[real cedar]

Picture?

[real cedar]

Okay throw me the link for that enclosure

I have a femtofox

1 watt + acasom coming right up

I already have 4 18650s in a pack literally ready to go for the project

And the acasom

And the femto fox and the antenna. I just need the enclosure. I could 3d print one too if someone has a design that size or slightly larger

@obsidian storm

[obsidian storm]

It's just a ton of work to disguise the nebra

I think it's this one:
https://www.amazon.com/YETLEBOX-Waterproof-Electrical-Stainless-Enclosure/dp/B0C2HHJFST

but you should double check the dimensions and depth