US - Utah

[real cedar]

It made me realize that an all-in-one product is actually kind of crappy. You get all the things you want, but you spend a lot of money on something that's only going to need one of them.

I think dedicated MPPTs for each chemistry in bulk and cheap is better than one big all-in-one.

[leaden crow]

I hope as NA+ batteries become more common, we get a jellybean IC (like that CN3163) but for NA+ voltages.

[real cedar]

I do too but I don't hold my breath much as it's far too new
LTO, lifepo4 and lion have a decade at least behind them

I couldn't find it NaIon can be charged under 32 F

Some say yes. Others say it causes sodium plating

Either way if you want sodium ion@leaden crow

https://hakadibattery.com/products/hakadi-18650-1300mah-3v-sodium-ion-cells-discharge-20c-na-ion-rechargeable-battery-for-e-bike-power-tools-diy-12v-24v-48v-72v-battery-pack

These are actually legit. People did chemical analysis. They also did voltage curve analysis etc.. These are sodium ion but they only have 1300mah available

@white field I worked on your peak art idea. I've kinda got the rough idea figured out

So To establish a peak node at the peak, you want to be able to put it on the peak art without it looking like a radio transmitter. Well, how about you use the pole that has a ring LED that is extremely low power that lights up the peak art and looks like it's there purely to light up the peak art. What you do then is you 3D print a top cap that houses the antenna and you make it look identical to the pole after you paint it. 🤣

You contain the battery, the electronics, and everything inside the pole. You have a lightning arrestor fused to the pole for the antenna as well. You insulate all of the electronics inside the pole from any air or direct contact with the metal casing.

Now you have a pole with a light on it with a transparent antenna cap that looks like a pole that you can now mount a solar panel to without anybody questioning why that solar panel is there since it looks like it's providing a light for the peak art.

I think it could work, but some care in research would have to be done to make sure that the design color and aesthetic matches the desired peak.

But more or less, I think that's the best idea because you can keep it above the snow level and you can keep it well-contained and if your battery explodes, it explodes inside the pipe that is non-pressurized and just falls to the ground and turns into slag without creating a wildfire.

A 2.5 inch round pipe should do for this. Rufio and I will test this out for promontory point.. See how it goes

[white field]

You need the gps from your phone. You can’t set it remotely either.

Found out the hard way after I placed onaqui

[white field]

Ah so it’s got a separate solar light for the summit box? Hmmmm

I know onaqui had a pipe that its summit box was attached to.

That feels kinda unobtrusive

[pseudo kestrel]

do we know who ZZ Alpha belongs to? Their location is currently showing them in China, which may be an error

[obsidian storm]

The node is right next to TH Roof

ZZ Alpha forgot a - in the long

-111 vs 111

puts you in china

[obsidian storm]

It's too bad these never became a thing:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190901021853/https://tech.nikkeibp.co.jp/dm/english/NEWS_EN/20080527/152443/

[void iris]

Hahahaha. I think it's my coworker, I'll let him know

[prisma saddle]

lol.

[real cedar]

Yeah, and you know what? Even if it's technically not asking permission, you're lighting it up and you're doing it neatly and you're making it pretty. I don't think very many people would go about trying to destroy that. They would probably go, huh, cool. The peak art is lit with a solar panel and a battery. 🤣

[ember torrent]

Was going to park somewhere and let it do that next. I successfully set the fixed position using python on my node with gps. The same practice hasn’t worked on the other two nodes without gps. 🤷🏼

[real cedar]

Its because you probably left smart broadcast on. You must disable it. Them you must enter both numbers to a value other than 0 for how often to broadcast

[ember torrent]

Yup.

Guess i could “enable”. Just doesn’t make normal sense.

“Enabled” shows the other interval. Update Interval.

[ember torrent]

I didnt swim to this island.

[ember torrent]

Wonder if these values are zero, or the one I cant access. Guess set em with the command line while doing the location.

[prisma saddle]

your phone gps is enabled for the app right?

[ember torrent]

Negative ghost writer. I dont want gps. Just set a location and be done.

The last tips, in CLI, probably addresses my issue.
https://meshtastic.org/docs/configuration/radio/position/

[real cedar]

As I said prior. Make sure smart broadcast is off. And the interval is greater than 30 minutes and you should see it regularly. I do 21600

For stationary nodes

If you have smart broadcast on. It overrides the interval

[white field]

Yeah I do realllly slow for my routers and house nodes. 24hrs is fine

[tired urchin]

Whoops. My bad. Haha.

[white field]

For reference 15min is pretty great for logistics if you’re doing activities especially for mobile nodes.

Nobody needs 1min updates on your car.

This is what 15min updates looked like at a music festival. Plenty of granularity with 15min updates.

Side note: I was overprepared. The event had cell tower trucks onsite to provide service, but it was still awesome to get reliable pings to my router at camp about 2km from the stages

[real cedar]

5 minutes if two people are moving on bike

[white field]

Eh, depends on the mesh crowding. I’m very curious what gets decided on for Burning Man mesh firmware. (It won’t be configurable) Most of the time 5min is overkill if people are spending sufficiently long durations at any given place.

I think it’s gonna be custom protocol fork to make only routers rebroadcast certain packets. Sounds like either MF or SF with an aim for 3 routers on 40-50 ft towers.

Last year the public mesh fell over and they are trying to deploy robust public router/firmware infrastructure.

Assumes about 1000 users.

[prisma saddle]

wow!

[prisma saddle]

right was not sure if it needed that to grab the fixed position for the app.

to send to the node.

[obsidian storm]

I just got my first RAK. I've been using it. Normally the red light is pretty bright and is solid. After a while it seems like the Rak stops working (disconnects from Bluetooth) and the red light is no longer solid. It's only dimly flashing.
The only way to get it back to its normal state is to kill power and plug it back in. I'm currently powering it by the USB port. Any ideas?

Has anyone seen this?

[real cedar]

How well is that really gonna work out though. I mean what's stopping someone from hacking up the burning mesh firmware and changing stuff

[white field]

They have done 800 person mesh at defcon and it worked fine

[real cedar]

Yeah as I recall it was SF

They had a ton of air time available haha

[white field]

I mean, generally some public awareness. Probably restricting certain admin permissions at firmware layer that prevent deviations

I mean simple answer is drop packets from anyone not on custom firmware

[real cedar]

Yeah known only if you can get the node DB to store that all haha

[white field]

If someone compiles custom fork of firmware that’s high effort

There’s significant firmware tweaks needed.

[real cedar]

Very high effort haha but you know it's BM and DC. Those individuals exist 😂 but I love it. You'll have to tell me how that all works out

[white field]

Flipping a bunch of primary/secondary node conventions

[real cedar]

I might be at DC this year

But I'm pretty spent on DC becoming far too corporate

[white field]

Default to never forgetting nodes from the private channel, but still allow next hope routing from public mesh.

Yeah I think they have a firmware proposal I’ll probably have time to help with once it’s reviewed by core devs

[real cedar]

Lol at defcon I'm actually hoping to run my own known only mesh.. I will be showing off drone autonomy over mesh if I get it working in time

It would be nice to know what FSes to avoid

I know vegas is on 20

Might tag the strat (temp) for giggles and range extension

[prisma saddle]

i went to defcon when i was still in high school i think. 99/2000 don’t recall.

was interesting. lol.

[leaden crow]

I have experienced similar with RAK plugged in to a computer, but works fine powered by battery. Usually only have it plugged in to flash firmware or program values with meshtastic --set

[ember torrent]

It probably will want me to fix that setting when i set the fixed location with my phone.

[obsidian storm]

I've had the issue with both phone battery and PC. I'll try rolling back to 2.6.4

[real cedar]

Its just the bugginess of USB power on computers. I wouldn't orry about it

As for the disconnect @obsidian storm @leaden crow if you haven't set a region and the radio is not active at the time. The device will sleep for the duration defualt to the firmware

If you use your phone you'll see it says device is sleeping

This is a normal microcontroller behavior when the radio isnt active or isn't actively transmitting/rebroadcasting or hearing anything

For example if for whatever reason EAGL router stopped talking.. Owl router would hear nothing for sometime and sleep and not wake until it hears a packet or an admin packet on the lora radio

Efficient sleep is partly why the RAKs (nrf52 board's) are so low power

[obsidian storm]

The phone just won't connect at all

I waited minutes

[real cedar]

If it's in sleep by the time you look to connect yeah you won't see BT until it wakes

[obsidian storm]

I was connected

And it just stopped working while I was using it

[real cedar]

Was your region set?

[obsidian storm]

Yes

[real cedar]

If not this will happen

Well sounds like you need to flash fresh firmware or you might have an issue with that board

Do you see anything off.. Under a magnifying glass

I had one come with the board not being fully clean and the tin flakes between solder joints was causing a ghost short

Little QC issues at times haha

Like I have two raks in rice right now due to the enclosure seals having issues. I don't know if they will survive

[prisma saddle]

ya rak should not do that. they just work! i have 4 of them. got them after my tbeam and never looked back.

[leaden crow]

Mine have all done that. Plugged into the USB-C on my PC, the heartbeat LED is weird, sometimes off completely. Sometimes they are just non-responsive. Sometimes I have to reboot them multiple times to get them to take all the settings with 'meshtastic --set ...'

The moment they are on batteries, they are fine.

[prisma saddle]

weird. hmmm maybe i’m doing something wrong. lol.

[leaden crow]

I tried a bunch of stuff, doing nrf_erase, different firmwares. Ultimately doesn't matter. They are only plugged into the PC for initial programming.

[leaden crow]

lol, or doing something right.

[real cedar]

Mine only do this when region is unset post nrf52 erase

[leaden crow]

Not my problem. The first thing I ever do with a new node is latest beta firmware and then:
meshtastic --set lora.region "US" --set lora.channelNum 51 --set lora.ignoreMqtt true

I don't really care enough to fix it, but if that is what bash is experiencing. He is not the only one.

[real cedar]

Yeah I just wait for it to stop sleeping. Restore config from either client-silent.yaml router.yaml router-quiet.yaml router-late-telem.yaml or router-late-quiet.YAML

I really should go in and make that generic and not tied to Umbriel in name

[real cedar]

Yeah. It's one of those things where I could probably sit down and debug in serial but it's not a priority for me atm. I told him to bring the nodes to the hackerspace and we will figure out what's going on one of these thursdays

[leaden crow]

My 7 year old loves the mini-bike. All the neighbors are going to hate me though. She wants to ride neighborhood laps non-stop. 😀

[real cedar]

HAHA okay well if your keen on changing the crappy stock exhaust I'd recommend one of these two things

1. fabricate your exhaust like I did. I had the pipe designed with a slightly enlarging taper to the expansion chamber for maximum exhaust scavenging since we don't have forced air. I have a very larve expansion chamber which makes mine sound mean/deeper than it should but not obnoxious

2. Go to a junkyard. Find a Honda from exhaust.. Modify it to hang on the frame. Add an angle pipe so it's aimed up for maximum ground clearance

At least then it's quiet and the noise drops off fast

2 might be something I'm considering cuz I like it deep and mean but I also like to be silent haha

Some people straight pipe them I think that's retarded a long and properly tapered pipe can actually create vacuum and help you scavenge the exhaust from the exhaust stroke and thus a fresher charge

As Gale Banks has always said the best exhaust is not no exhaust 😂

[leaden crow]

I don't care enough to fix it.

[real cedar]

😂 the neighbor hatred will be glorious

Or they will all get one

And then your child has friends haha

[leaden crow]

also removed the throttle restrictor bolts and it's a little faster

[real cedar]

Lol. Do you mean the governor?

Yeah that things useless. I not only removed it. I got rid of its gear and balanced my crankshaft haha

[leaden crow]

nah, the governor you have to open the crank case. It literally has a bolt on both the bar throttle control and engine side so you can't open it 100%

one of them fell off from vibration at some point, the other one I remvoed

[prisma saddle]

same.

[real cedar]

Ahh lol

Yeah it does require disassembly for a proper removal haha

[obsidian storm]

How did this turn out?

[obsidian storm]

any reason why we don't use these breather holes?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BKY2LLLV

[real cedar]

Badly. Hugo is not as good as I thought. So many deprecation errors not warnings

Imma have to find another framework

I'm open to a framework but my requirement is 100% Functionality and UX without JavaScript. You can have JS but it must be optional/non critical

So far I found a couple based in rust. I found Jekyll based on ruby and I found a few others. I also found entirely seperate suites of software tailored at docs but they seem heavy to maintain.

[real cedar]

That's a good idea. I was looking at McMaster-Carr for their prices. I just hadn't gotten around to it yet. Time willing. I wish I had a job that let me WFH. This would so get done faster 😂

[obsidian storm]

I was just looking at parts list from this:
https://www.printables.com/model/820212-meshtastic-solar-base-station

and he's got those breathers on it.

would breathers like this have any issues with heavy snow ?

[leaden crow]

Shouldn't be a problem.Tons of people have used those breathers. I put them on some of mine, but I don't think they're absolutely necessary.
#1197577977781821541 message

[real cedar]

No they shouldnt

The only concern would be an extremely strong upslope wind and heavy rain in combo

[pseudo kestrel]

Jekyll perhaps? native gh-pages support is a plus

I've enjoyed working with how flexible it is

[real cedar]

I'll have to look at it and work with it a bit yeah. Let me check out the available themese

[real cedar]

I need a good jekyll theme. Preferably dark. Minimal but with code and MathJax highlighting, table support. Those kinds of things. Any ideas? I accept JS for syntax highlighting and map boxes and diagramma and stuff but for basic text, layout etc. I loathe it. I got really turned off by modern web development practices lately. Idk it got me salty when pages started being only blank when you blocked some JS. It was like who the hell makes it mandatory to run JS to load text. 🙄 /rant 30 haha

[pseudo kestrel]

https://jekyllrb.com/docs/themes/

I think extended support for fancy stuff tends to be added by sticking in a new gem

[obsidian storm]

do you want to just use the same software that meshtastic uses for their docs?

I can spin that up in just 5min

[real cedar]

I mean a quick test shows without JS it breaks into pieces so no? Noscript breaks it completely but tons of Jekyll themes work just fine haha.

The requirement isn't no js but it is 100% of the needed UX to serve the purpose being loadable either way

Its also way heavy. Puget mesh has a good example

https://pugetmesh.org/

Mkdocs is awesome haha

I appreciate the offer though. I can spin most things up in 5 mins. It's whether I care to maintain them and I'm infinitely more likely to modify markdown than something heavier than that. I am extremely lazy 😂 with tech

[obsidian storm]

Oh I see

[real cedar]

Yeah if I can edit a markdown file and queue a command right after I edit.. That is infinitely better than shit guys I broke the web page updating again 🤣

I've done that so many times I'm jaded hahahaha

I'll get it up this weekend though

Should have time Sunday after welding and machining all day Saturday

This is a fantastic time for input though. As a new folks @obsidian storm @dense basin @prisma saddle @ember torrent @leaden crow

Talk to me about:

1. what was good and made sense and was easy to setup
2. what you felt needed more docs
3. What you'd like to see
4. what do we want public and what do we not. This will be a inet facing page

I will be a markdown warrior on Sunday. You too @pseudo kestrel

Imma ho ask the same question in hacker space chat

[dense basin]

What are we giving input on? Documentation of the 51 mesh for new users?

[real cedar]

Yes sir as well as our testing, logs, notes and the ability for any router owner to potentially write their own blog entries

Should they so choose

Mimmicking https://pugetmesh.org/ but a little extra more

[dense basin]

Oh that's a great idea

[real cedar]

I like how they are expanding it to include other types of meshnetworks

That's also why I don't want to copy the meshtastic docs software haha

[obsidian storm]

I fixed my RAK issues

https://forum.rakwireless.com/t/rak4631-turns-off-intermittently/14268/10

[dense basin]

The meshtastic docs are kinda poopy and outdated/incorrect

[real cedar]

ROFL

You plugged the 12500 gps module into slot D didn't you

[dense basin]

Was it the gps slot issue?

[real cedar]

Lol

Hahahah

Yeah

I did that too bash

And I got so mad at the wizblock designers

The design change to allow either was fucking trivial

It actually got my engineering autism on a rant haha

[obsidian storm]

Yes

[dense basin]

Ok so for the documentation you basically wanna make it so that someone who has never heard of meshtastic before can read up, and know how to get a device and participate and understand the basic workings and what not to do, etc - amirite?

[obsidian storm]

Yes

[real cedar]

Yeah same.. Sadly not allowed haha

[dense basin]

Glad you got it figured out bashninja

[real cedar]

I wanted that because I wanted UV on too

Top

Found out meshtastic doesn't support it

WHY

[dense basin]

It is kinda silly that you can plug modules into slots that aren't supposed to run said modules

[real cedar]

You literally support it on an NRF52

tracker1000e

So what gives

😄

/rant 60

[dense basin]

I was also gonna say that ham radio guys in general have no idea meshtastic exists and maybe I should pitch the site/system to them once it's up and get them to participate and maybe give real estate on repeater towers

But hams are f'kin weird man

Maybe not a good idea

Bunch of Elmers standing around in flannel pulling on their suspenders and telling you how you should run the mesh

[obsidian storm]

Anyways. RAK works great now. I'd have loved to have the temp monitor on the top of the board but oh well

Stupid design issue

[dense basin]

Yup

[prisma saddle]

let me get kids in bed and i’ll write ya a book. 🙂

[dense basin]

Aside from that tho I like RAK stuff but those Seeed guys are making some cool stuff

[real cedar]

I will take any and all input.. From content to complaints

For the "what we would like to see improved" page

[obsidian storm]

@real cedar explain Privacy

[dense basin]

I NEED TO SPEAK WITH THE MANAGER

[prisma saddle]

get your position fixed?

[real cedar]

On the network. Yeah that's a really good one

And also the strengths and weaknesses of meshtastic

What makes them easier to locate haha

[obsidian storm]

Explain how to set up your message/position/telemetry broadcast frequency to something that is reasonable for various situations.

Explain why I should/should not just set my hop count to 7 all the time.

Explain the various components to a DIY node.
MPPT? My Power Point right?
BMS? Sounds like something you do in the bathroom.
Solar panels, what makes a good one?
How do I waterproof things?

CLIENT, CLIENT_MUTE, ROUTER, ROUTER_LATE, TRACKER... When, why, how?

WHY ARE THERE NO GOOD YOUTUBE TUTORIALS FOR THIS STUFF?

How do I tell if my messages are getting where I want?

How do I tell how far they go?

[real cedar]

You got it bash

[obsidian storm]

What's a PortNUM?

[real cedar]

The kitchen sink was already planned

[real cedar]

LOL

Okay that gets complicated

But I'll do so

[obsidian storm]

How do I deal with encryption?

WTF is periodic positioning limited to channel 0 and how do I work around that limitation?

I've got $100. What should I do?

I've got $200. What should I do?

$300, and $500.

Maybe make a whole section on gear and buying stuff. In that section, include a good list of "setups" for DIY. Also include a good list of all the various 3D print cases/things we use

[leaden crow]

$500 is just a $400 bottle of scotch and a $100 meshtastic node.

[leaden crow]

You bring up a pretty good point. Comms Channel is good, but I'm surprised there isn't more / better youtube. Unless I just don't know about it.

[obsidian storm]

Not if you're trying to buy:
t1000e card to carry around,
RAKwireless Wismesh Repeater Mini for your car,
A very nice setup for your roof,
And one repeater on a nearby mountian peak.

[leaden crow]

I know, j/k

[obsidian storm]

most of the youtube stuff is very basic. "Here's how to install it, here's how to create a private channel, make sure you set your region"

[leaden crow]

Have you watched the comms channel episodes on the femtofox? I feel like that one is pretty in-depth.

[obsidian storm]

not yet

I'll try it tonight

[prisma saddle]

@real cedar Ok prob repeating and a broken record. Talk to me about:

1. what was good and made sense and was easy to setup:
   The setup in general was easy i felt, install the app, connect to device and start playing. See #2
2. what you felt needed more docs: Everything.... I do not feel like anything other than the initial setup was documented and what the general settings are or could be. I would like to see a full blown guide on the following see #3
3. What you'd like to see: I would like to see a from start to finish guide/docs on pros and cons between all the hardware. I know there are stats about each of them. But real reviews of what is better , rak19007 or t-beam or etc.. Use cases for each. Why would i use this over that. Antennas, batteries, do i need gps? if not why? I want to create a router, what are suggested hardware/devices to get started and why? I wanna have my own mesh at my cabin, how can i set this up, best ways to plan it? what mountain do put what on.. etc. cray examples but not a simple guide. id love to see maybe simple setup for the basic person that wants a emergency way to contact, then the person that wants to really get into it and contribute/etc.. What are all the roles, what is best for what use case. Do HOw does mqtt work? is it for me? is it not? why or why not. i think a more broader guide on all the settings and a use case for each. I think use cases might help others as it provides an exanple of why or why not to use or touch that setting. at least it does for me. i can relate to it better.
4. what do we want public and what do we not: What do we want public... MAybe all but our mesh settings, and what is proprietary info on how this one works? I think most of it the gen pub needs to know, since no one knows what to us which is why the 20 mesh sucks.!

ha ha.. hows that. 🙂

rak vs t-beam/t-echo vs t1000e / etc.. pi hats. all the stuffs! Oh and channel stuff private/public/secondary/primary. why do i want that. what is suggested and how do i make the most of it. etc.

[dense basin]

I think the meshtastic docs are open source/free license. Could also grab them and "fix" them basically using as a template for some decent documentation

[prisma saddle]

ya i have not found anything other than his.

[prisma saddle]

oh thanks i need to jump into those too.

[prisma saddle]

exactly!

[real cedar]

Everything's noted down for the weekend. I'll spin up mkdocs that ones really popular and has existed a long time so it should just work

[obsidian storm]

If anyone knows the cheapest way to get E22-900M30S, let me know! I need to buy ~15 of them

[leaden crow]

Step #1: Acquire a time machine

Alibaba will probably be slightly less expensive than Aliexpress, but that depends a lot on the seller and quantity. I would just shop both.

[vital hemlock]

I havent seen this posted for a while, just a suggestion for a mountain node in a tree

https://www.printables.com/model/890830-meshtastic-birdhouse-node

[obsidian storm]

I tried to look for the same solar panels and didn't find them last week. Have you seen them?

[vital hemlock]

Gah, it was there last week...

Solar Panel Compatible with Blink Outdoor & Blink (3rd Gen), Built-in 5000mAh Rechargeable Battery for Security Camera (Black)

The panel is missing from amazon

[prisma saddle]

oh a built in battery.

so it has a constant voltage from the panel. interesting.

[vital hemlock]

It's a cool part, and it was cheap.

[pseudo kestrel]

bat sanctuaries are federally protected structures IIRC

[ember torrent]

Reason why i likely wont buy one, How do you trouble shoot when you have tenants?

[ember torrent]

Knowing you are all on Lf51 was helpful.

I need to look at the Puget Mesh site.

[pseudo kestrel]

slightly hidden external debug pins xD

[obsidian storm]

@leaden crow
https://makerworld.com/en/models/1409700-18650-battery-welding-jig-3-cell-4-cell-6-cell

@fiery sparrow we had a battery welding party last night. Here's mine. Thanks again!

[fiery sparrow]

nice... good job adding the protection circuits as well... most people wouldn't.

[real cedar]

@leaden crow these panels are compact just like the soshine but square instead of a rectangle and they are really nice.. Extremely efficient. Like I hit it with a flashlight boom 22V.. Not too much current but none of my other panels do that.. And they have a diode to prevent sipping current in a back-flow to the panels. US made. Real quality control.

[obsidian storm]

@real cedar I saw this. Could be cool to standardize a long_name scheme in the docs

The emojis are useful

[real cedar]

🤣 battery GPS Thermometer don't know the rest

[obsidian storm]

The plug is great powered, the up arrow is antenna direction

[real cedar]

Oh I mean the blue phone and circle

[real cedar]

Is that just mobile

Ahhhh

Okay

Yes that would be nice..

[obsidian storm]

Don't know. Just thought it might be fun to come up with a system for the docs

[real cedar]

Yeah we could. It would be nice to have some indication on the router as to its primary serving location

[obsidian storm]

Found it!
https://a.co/d/iXVHpPw

[leaden crow]

Tons of good choices like that, but you can't use the super cheap charge controllers or the one built into the RAK. You'll have to shop around for something else. I have one node built on a 15V panel and I just used a 5V regulator that was in spec.

Maybe the Waveshare board Comms Channel used in his Femtofox build?
edit: looks like a good choice:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CT2ZBML9

[real cedar]

I'm making my own

Essentially

I do want to release the design if it's good but my day jobs putting a damper on my time haha

[real cedar]

Oh I have ass tons of these

I have 5

[ember torrent]

I dunno. Maybe birds wont care about occasional visits.

[pseudo kestrel]

@obsidian storm which fork/version of meshview are you using?

[obsidian storm]

https://github.com/pablorevilla-meshtastic/meshview

@vital hemlock @real cedar @thorn marsh @prisma saddle @whole oxide
The math is coming out to about $15/board. Any issues?

Am I missing anyone?

For the Nebra->Meshtastic Nebra boards.

[whole oxide]

Sounds good to me

[obsidian storm]

We'll see what the end cost from ebyte is for their E22-900M30S, but I'm estimating $8/ea. Not sure what shipping/tarrifs will do.

or if I forgot anything.

[real cedar]

Send it

[obsidian storm]

I'm in Provo with tons of line of sight to the mountains with an e1000. Can't get an ack on LongFast. Maybe that's what I'll fix with some of these nodes

@real cedar what are you doing to make your node so cool? I have mine in that Amazon case and it's freaking hot. Almost too hot. It's just sitting in a flower bed in my front yard

[leaden crow]

Happy valley has a righteousness dome that blocks all outside RF

[obsidian storm]

Mine is 22C higher than yours

[leaden crow]

Wow 52C is pretty hot. My friend's roof node is reporting 34.5C rn

[obsidian storm]

Yeah. I'm not too pleased about it actually

[leaden crow]

I wonder if the sensor is bad or something? My friend's is on an asphalt roof. I painted the enclosure white, but other than that, should be pretty hot up there.

[prisma saddle]

hmm dunno how hot mine is. it’s sitting on my old dish network dish. so prob mega hot.

[obsidian storm]

I mean, it's next to The front of my South facing house. In a flower pot. So there's no wind and the sun is beating down pretty hard

[leaden crow]

If it's a RAK, you might consider getting the temp/humidity module. They're pretty cheap.

[obsidian storm]

I even put foam insulation inside the enclosure to help insulate it from getting too hot. I guess that didn't help

Might even be causing the problem

Or maybe it's getting too much contact with the the hot dirt

[leaden crow]

Does it have a solar panel shading it? For reference this is TH Roof

[obsidian storm]

No. I just have the enclosure sitting there with no solar panel

I wanted to test it outside, with stronger RF, and the temperature swings. But I haven't really wired up the solar yet

[leaden crow]

I have a RAK with the temp module, I could just put the enclosure out in the sun and see if it gets that hot w/o shade.

[obsidian storm]

At what point do I need to worry about the batteries exploding?

[leaden crow]

battery operating range is rated to 60C

I would guess the spec has some bufffer built in, but if you see 60C I would take it inside

Do you have any secondary way to measure the temp / verify?

[prisma saddle]

cool thanks

[prisma saddle]

that’s the rak1901 right?

[leaden crow]

You should do a build night at the hackerspace when everything arrives.

[prisma saddle]

what is that and where?

[leaden crow]

https://www.801labs.org/

[prisma saddle]

ah right. did google that some weeks ago.

[leaden crow]

Meshtastic 26e8 is currently on hot concrete in full sun exposure. It has only been on for about 10 minutes and is already reporting 47C

I'll leave it there for a while, but sound like your 50C is about right. I think the cooler nodes are just shaded by their solar panels?

[prisma saddle]

sounds about right. i’ll work on getting some sensors for mine and see what it says.

[prisma saddle]

is there a list of supported rak sensors?

[obsidian storm]

https://meshtastic.org/docs/configuration/module/telemetry/#currently-supported-sensor-types

[prisma saddle]

thanks i was having issues finding it.

[real cedar]

@obsidian storm you didn't send it yet right

I've got a wild idea

In the same hat wire a side for the pi3 with the header

You know for nebras

But on the other side have a pi4 and 5 header

That way you can use either!

[leaden crow]

The Nebra hat will already work on any pi4 or 5, you just need to use the config for the Nebra hat.

[real cedar]

Oh I thought you were simply cha going it for the earlier pi header

I hadn't looked yet

[obsidian storm]

I already bought everything but the ebyte chips

[real cedar]

Disregard dagron cleared up my confusion

Sorry guys I will not be writing documentation this weekend. I got a mild concussion and am opting to rest for 2 days. I will write it on Monday or tuesday after a visit with the doc haha. Shelf fell down. Was a series of unfortunate events. Woke up 25 minutes later after being comatose on the garage floor for a while. Shelf wasn't even close to its weight limit and fastened properly to the studs with construction fastners. Last time I buy "everbuilt" from home depot

[prisma saddle]

oh dang dude. hope all is well. that’s not good.

[real cedar]

All is well. Shit happens. Monitoring for the symptoms or delayed onset or any concerns but none have occurred. The doc would only do the same thing so we will hold off until the morning. No need to bother an ER with it

[prisma saddle]

yup. as long as there is no goo running out of your ears or nose . all good! :).

[obsidian storm]

I disagree completely but I am also overly cautious. I'd like a CT scan after being out for so long

I'd want to check for internal bleeding

[real cedar]

I might do that as a precaution later however I'm very happy to report there's absolutely no swelling and I'm not feeling the normally reported pressure in the noggin. I'm concentrating just fine I was tempted to actually work on the notes but didn't. Just did Linux maintenance

The area is mildly sore though haha

I have a cool pad that will remain on my head overnight anyways. CT might be smarter tomorrow or Monday anyways to See if there is any continued internal swelling

[real cedar]

Well it's a weather station there's a PHAT vent in the bottom that is baffled

Dont worry you'll be happier in winter. My batteries will be experiencing the DEEP FREEZE

They are not heated. They are not insulated. They are not shielded. And they certainly aren't protected. I will just heat them up by shoving 1C or less in with the solar panel. However my new panels afford me a bit extra so I might opt for a momentary battery heater and insulation so I can heat them for charging.. Then let off the heat and charge. You get the picture

It would have to be very small and the insulation to be extremely good for that to work

The reason I would care about heat is lithium plating. That is always my main concern with Lithium Ion. Lifepo4 experiences it less. LTO basically doesn't give a fuck. Sodium Ion doesn't care but charging sucks below 0 F

Some say they have seen great luck with li-ion in winters by just shoving enough capacity in. I have no idea if that's good long term

[slate urchin]

Has anyone played around with Mesh Core? I have been away for so long, I'm not sure what to think, but it seems to have some cool features.

[void iris]

I haven't tried it yet but I want to

[tired urchin]

I top landed my paraglider at the Point of the Mountain Router last night, I tried to get a picture with my wing in frame but kiting without putting it down on the ground kind of requires both hands.

[slate urchin]

Yeah I want to as well. I think I have 2-3 I can place around as repeaters.

[void iris]

It can use heltecs and RAKs and I have a bunch of both

[real cedar]

I overflew with my hang-glider the other week. It's still there. Not the best spot wouldn't you say?

You might see me up there from time to time. My glider is all black

I'm thinking about a couple more adrenaline inducing terrain following flights here soon. Cool to know another person does here

[real cedar]

For those interested. 18650 form of LTOs do exist! Just recovered some. Made by some asian manufacturer named hakadi

[real cedar]

I have 40 of them I will now be changing a mesh nodes design over to them. If I manage to recover sodium ion. I'll do one with that.

That way we all get somewhat good empiracle data. Gonna rev a special board to handle the power for it all so I can keep some control over everything else. That way we know how the batteries behave.

[real cedar]

They are showing to have about 2100 mah each
They stop providing meaningful current at 1.4 V
They stop charging at 2.8V

Confirms LTO!

[real cedar]

@leaden crow hey for your battery welds sticking I know what it is. Turn up the power a bit but the key is getting those tabs you weld in bulk material and cutting the singular shape you need. That way your just welding through 1 tab. I noticed you were trying multiple at the space

Might see if that works?

[obsidian storm]

We got it working pretty well

Just needed to dial the power in right

ASA or nylon to 3D print a case?

[real cedar]

Nice. Yeah that and when those packs get below 50% it's not as high quality of a weld. I leave mine plugged in all the time haha

[real cedar]

ASA is cheap but so is nylon if you go china

What do you desire

[obsidian storm]

They're both about the same price. I'm more interested in which is better. I've heard people mention nylon, but my research says nylon isn't very UV resistant

[real cedar]

Neptunia is the node that just can't die. It's fallen in the salt lake.. Recovered.. It fell in a mtn lake... Recovered. It fell down a canyon and SOME HOW MADE IT INTO THE RIVER and recovered.. Its soaked the entire winter in a fucking case.. Recovered.. Still working

🤣 got the GOATed rak right here

[real cedar]

Nylon is FAR more robust than ASA could drean of being BUT nylon needs carbon fiber and some post processing to make it battle UV as well as ASA. They both hold up super well but ASA handles UV better and Nylon handles shock, temp changes and cycling, as well as temperature and abrasion far better

If you have ASA I'd just go with that

[obsidian storm]

I've also thought about coating the PCBs of these with conformal coating:
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/MG-Chemicals/422B-340G?qs=qq0d0g5Qxs1zENTxK%252BlFYw%3D%3D

[real cedar]

I have lots of it. I don't use it yet. I hate removing it when I recover and want to fix

But it's definitely great for set and forget

Highly recommend

Just don't slap it on any heat dissipation surfaces and your good

[obsidian storm]

I can probably cover most of the PCB. But just leave a few spots uncovered to make recovery possible

[real cedar]

It might be a good idea. NCH (non condensing humidity) can turn into condensing humidity over time

[real cedar]

That aersol is too expensive

Hang on

https://a.co/d/2q1ULij

Acrylics fine

Also removable with acetone or mek

Just buy a couple of those

Paint it on with a brush after hitting the board with some acetone to clean it. You'll have a flawless coating

[real cedar]

Hey everyone! Bash is taking some awesome mapping stats and I think they could be very useful. Could you all turn on neighbor info and transmit that over lora every 21600 seconds? For only your stationary nodes Even if the stationary nodes are inside or outside of the building.

It would be a huge help.

By default, neighbor info will only be sent to MQTT and a connected app. If enabled, the neighbor info will be sent on the primary channel over LoRa. Only available when the primary channel is not the public channel with default key and name.

Well, that's a problem. I'm wondering, do you all want to coordinate making a Utah mesh primary channel that's fully encrypted and then leave long fast in slot 1?

[pseudo kestrel]

as long as we're cautious not to send MQTT data over LoRa, couldn't we pull the needed information from the thebadplace MQTT server, or am I missing something?

[real cedar]

I'm not really sure. I think by defaul mqtt data over lora is only allowed one hop. I'm guessing to get a complete picture we need the router owners who see their routers to be collecting this data

Also I've been deep diving on how to improve the meshtastic networks privacy and security.

It seems moving to a Utah mesh primary channel with a 256b psk.. And deleting long fast and opting to have all our routers only rebroadcast packets from this channel.. It would be a very good way to lock down the network a bit.. I was looking into this for bash as he asked about privacy and security

[obsidian storm]

We would need every device to have an internet connection to send data to the mqtt server

[real cedar]

Or be directly LOS to a node that did

NI over lora is 0 hop

If your the neighbor it can relay that info

[pseudo kestrel]

I feel like we might be delving into new use-cases, and are trying to bully the spec to let us do neat things. That's a really neat place to be on a newer project like MEshtastic ^_^

[real cedar]

LOCAL_ONLY LOCAL_ONLY - Ignores observed messages from foreign meshes that are open or those which it cannot decrypt. Only rebroadcasts message on the nodes local primary / secondary channels.

Never mind LOCAL ONLY would SUCCCKKK

Or it might not.. Thoughts?

[pseudo kestrel]

local_only seems kind isolationist, like it'd be best for corp placements

[real cedar]

It would keep peoples private channels in the valley yes

But the broader public chat gets forwarded

That's the pain part

Ahh well it was a thought

Althought having a trusted telemetry channel for Utah mesh where we trusted one another and those in it had trust would be nice for our testing instead of doing it over AQ== longfast

So maybe the idea is not all bad news 😂

[pseudo kestrel]

I'd be down to have a "Private" SLC area channel 🙂

[vital hemlock]

I work for the UofU, I have my primary channel set to that for all my mobile nodes, only my bp_rpi is LongFast default channel 0

There are some changes coming I've hard, where you can just say what channel you want telemetry broadcast on. That would be nice

[real cedar]

If that's an incoming change then maybe we don't need that channel

I sincerely hope so. It would be very nice to have granular control

How's the walker center node coming?

[vital hemlock]

Anyone is welcome to use thebadplace mqtt. As long as you uplink on the channel you are broadcasting on, and dont downlink, then you never run any risk

[obsidian storm]

Is the UofU using meshtastic?

[vital hemlock]

Not yet 😄

[real cedar]

I think they have some projects in their powder network

[vital hemlock]

they do

[real cedar]

But not meshtastic yet

[vital hemlock]

CHPC runs our powder "stuff"

[real cedar]

I know your using inactive AT&T towers haha

I know exactly where they all are too 🤣 I spent time tracking them down for fun

[vital hemlock]

I dont care for the org to adopt it, honestly, it's not ready to scale to that degree

[real cedar]

Some cute little hiding spots you got out there

Haha

[vital hemlock]

If they'll let me put a few clients on a few of our buildings it'd give us some resiliency, in case someone witch hunts our good routers

[real cedar]

It certainly isn't. We would need SHORT TURBO BBS to compensate

[real cedar]

I mean I feel like you can get through that red tape. Aren't you doing the Walker center

[vital hemlock]

That's still being discussed. If I did our 102 tower it'd be done already, but it's a less ideal spot, and only 8 stories

:/

[real cedar]

Haha well god speed. That client would be cool. I love the idea of strategic clients

I even have a full mode and intervals set in a backup config for it

Basically everything goes to 21600

Unless there's actual telemetry like weather and stuff hahs

RL on my stuff goes to 43200 and R 86400

Kinda just felt like keeping it simple to remember.. Nothing religious about it

It has the benefit of preserving airtime for actual use.

I do the samething with WiFi but turned way up. I find the longest DTIM - Beacon Interval I can support without degradation to my experience.. It really does help. More air time is usable for my clients on the network than dumb resynchronizations. Also devices sleep longer. I discovered that too. Might be into the nitty gritty on WiFi idk

My DTIM is 7 and the beacon interval is 9000ms

[real cedar]

@white field this is going to require some creativity

Its all talus, scree and ancient volcanic rock. It has some top soil but not much. Those green signs at the peak are anchored in solid though so it must be possible

There is absolutely no hiding it so we might as well make it look official on mt belknap?

Tree line is more than 2000 ft below the peak

Im thinking maybe we use an OLED screen with a thermometer or something to look like a weather station? Maybe disguise it to provide a "public" service such as temperature haha

[obsidian storm]

We could always get permission.

and create a website with the temps on various Utah peaks

if someone wanted to put an antenna in the exact same location for scientific purposes, we’d probably allow it.”
https://www.vice.com/en/article/mysterious-antennas-are-appearing-in-utahs-hills-and-officials-are-stumped/

^ That quote got me thinking today.

"801 Labs, a SLC non profit, would like to provide a public service to the Utah Community where we place tiny thermometers on various peaks in utah and publish that data publicly for anyone to use."

And we can just consume that data from the mesh and then create a very simple website where we publically share that data.

and BAM, now we have permission.

[real cedar]

I definitely want to. I love getting weather data.

But if we get permission I want so much more

Id LOVE to do seismic sensors along the wasatch front for kicks

[obsidian storm]

I'm sure we could get permission for the SLC section.

[real cedar]

We will have to look into this one of these thursdays

[obsidian storm]

^ Those areas would be EZ

And once we get one or two there, it wouldn't be hard to engage with other Utah cities.

[real cedar]

Yeah we honestly might have to. Thing is on these remote peaks.. I think very few care

theres less authority out in the boonies haha

But close to the cities definitely might be worth the effort

[obsidian storm]

The remote peaks are more difficult since we'd probably need to engage with the USFS

[leaden crow]

https://www.fs.usda.gov/working-with-us/contracts-commercial-permits/how-to-apply-for-special-use-permit

[obsidian storm]

Once we have a good track record with other cities, I bet we can get the USFS on board too

[real cedar]

So I think ive nailed down the components and stuff to make a FULL BMS with MPPT onboard.. its still gonna be around 40 dollars but ill one up voltaic.. I tossed in active cell equalization and battery cell ISOLATION .. that will isolate a battery exhibiting some issues and alert the SAM L21E18B MCU onboard. Im thinking I could probably write the meshtastic integration for this if I got a couple prototypes working. The MCU allows me to write to the firmware to keep the batteries healthy and monitored.. not just topped off

so how about that for 40 bucks ish

It would support all the chemistries

21700 slot, 18650 slot, and through hole battery support .. but it wouldnt include the slots

those would have to be self obtained

But I think that would be EXTREMELY useful not just for meshtastic

But for all other iot projects. Im gonna make it and see how far I get with a couple prototypes and let yall know!

It will support powering up to an overclocked rpi5 16 GB lol

I also found a way to support 0-80V solar panels and its part of the bread and butter.. God I love analog devices sometimes

there is your one hint to its topology for now hahah

(C) Soon (tm)

@obsidian storm I need a non china PCB manufacturer

that you trust to do good work

[obsidian storm]

oshpark

they're expensive though

[real cedar]

10-4 loading there stuff into kicad

The expense to protect my hard work is necessary

I spent weeks on this

[obsidian storm]

I'll be honest, I'm not paying $40 for a BMS with MPPT

[real cedar]

haha well I didnt expect it to be in your camp

[obsidian storm]

but I'm probably not the target

[real cedar]

More the people with the rpi nodes

and those who run tc2 mesh

they usually have a ton more going on with their mesh integrations. Same for people with bbs nodes but the femtofox did exploit the low power side of stuff

You might really like the femto fox btw

if it ever comes back in stock LMAO

[obsidian storm]

fancy integrations == nebra 😄

[real cedar]

I definitely targeted the 40 dollar IOT category of such devices.. I liked voltaics design I just thought man it could have been more economical and as a point of proof to myself I set out to create a BOM to match it.. with more features

Yeah it would be great in there if not for size. I targetted the 1S4P 6P and 8P sizes

rather than 2P but come to think of it

2P would shave it down to 30

LMAO

Im still trying to figureout how to power the nebra

how I want to deliver the POE

This might solve that problem entirely

https://docs.oshpark.com/services/four-layer/

This isnt awful

[real cedar]

id probably give you and dagron one free for all the nodes your enabling

tbch

[real cedar]

@obsidian storm
https://rushpcb.com/get-a-quote/

Found these guys. Might see the quote they give me

At the same time though this is oshparks most economical option and my PCB is large enough to let me use this option
https://docs.oshpark.com/services/four-layer-medium-run/

Its still way too expensive haha

they really cater towards small stuff

So ill have to look at rush or sierra

[obsidian storm]

Why not China?

[real cedar]

I dont usually like to send it to them. They take all your work. Make knock off. Put it on amazon a few months later. Ive caught them red handed multiple times

If I actually put work into something that will always rub me the wrong way

Unless its something tiny, bulk and easy to figure out haha

Though for a while there tariffs made it rough. did the electronics exception kill all that off

I was working on a school project earlier this year and was going to use them then trump made the minimum order more than was reasonable for a PCB for a school project lol

[real cedar]

So I probably should elaborate. A long while back I used to run an Etsy store for some RF stuff. I had been going through sierra at the time. I switched to JLC to make a bit more margin and lower the price at the same time. 3 months later a knock off.. half price was on amazon for those LNAs and Filters that I had made and fabricated.. I was pretty pissed. It basically dropped purchases to zero but I digress. Its up to you if you want china to steal everything you do

[obsidian storm]

tariffs are still rough.

[real cedar]

How bad are they on your run?

[obsidian storm]

we'll see

the ebytes will hurt

normally they were around $7

I think they'll end up around $12

[white field]

My filters have arrived. I'm gonna try to get Stansbury done after work this week.

[real cedar]

Do you want AURs Router Late Config for it?

or are you gooch and ready to go

🥳

Stansbury is gonna be awesome tbch at least for the people in that valley there

I know spooks and poly will be happy af

[real cedar]

OUCH

thats worse than my LT for my BMS and those are manufacturered overseas for them

[obsidian storm]

@vital hemlock @real cedar @thorn marsh @prisma saddle @whole oxide The boards ended up being $20 with tarrifs. I'll let you know when all the parts arrive and we can do a small build party/pickup party. I'm hoping for June 12th.

[vital hemlock]

Sounds great. I will unfortunately be out of town that week. 👎

[real cedar]

10-4 20 bucks for 5. I owe ya a 100

I can bring solder paste if someone has a hot air reflow gun. We can make it look pro

[obsidian storm]

These are the Wehooper4 Nebra to meshtastic boards + parts (including a filter).

[white field]

I can configure to whatever people want.

For my personal use, all I care about is that it's at least client.

[real cedar]

RL
Intervals to 43200
If you put weather on it.. 1800 for env

Thats really all AUR is configured to do. It allows MQTT and uplink only and its sends neighbor info over lora every 43200

[white field]

Yeah, I configure super delayed so its net very small impact on mesh.

I think the real question is client vs ROUTER_LATE.

[real cedar]

Router late for sure

When deseret goes up.. stansbury will forward broadcasts that dont get rebroadcast or are weak and in peoples homes

[white field]

sounds good

[real cedar]

Plus its a solid placement. your champ for braving the gun ranges to get out there

haha

[white field]

I'll approach from a diff angle and wear blaze orange.

honestly, a good reminder.

[leaden crow]

That's still a great deal. Pre-tariff, the standard price on the MeshAdv hat was $60. Granted that is assembled price..

[real cedar]

yeah thats why I keep saying full send

just send it.. ill pay haha

[obsidian storm]

heh, if we get a quick assembly line, I'll bet we can have them all assembled in 20min.

[leaden crow]

Are you using a hot plate or hot air? Honestly, the pin spacing on the E22 hat is large enough it's pretty easy to solder with an iron.

[obsidian storm]

I was just planning on doing it with an iron.

It looks pretty easy, tbh

tape it down really quick, drag solder

8s to clean up.

[leaden crow]

Yeah, I think so too, just wondering.
At some point if the batch was large enough, it might be worth doing hot plate, solder paste.

[obsidian storm]

I'll bet we could solder the ebyte in 20s, 8s for the filter, 8s for the connector, another 30s for the rpi header.

it'll be fast.

[real cedar]

So what ive figured out thanks to the sheer prominence of the wasatch range. In terms of area covered and what modes.. elevation is a great analog

Stansbury fits RL .. and I went around checking my model against our other sites and they all follow this. none of them fall out of it..

Those specific numbers would change depending on the range or canyon your in. Like if your entire area tops out at 8k and you have more hills.. then elevation may not be the best analog. we are just lucky

For example. Im trying to map the treasure valley and magic valley where my parents are at

Instead of RLs at 6-8k .. Im probably gonna have to stick to 4-6k and routers at 6-8k since thats about where a lot of stuff tops out and ridges arent high.. you just have lots of high points

I am trying to connect my parents to me in less than 3 hops and ive found a way.. which would be hilarious cuz they are 450 miles away

Assuming it works I can use one of the intermediate routers to place another good router and a router late and have coverage in sun valley where our vacation home is

[real cedar]

I think I've figured it out either Ben Lomond or Thurston --> Cache Peak --> Bennet Peak

Boom!

Cache peak also sees Bald Mountain/sun valley directly

[real cedar]

Uintah Basin is difficult

[white field]

oh that spots cool.

[real cedar]

Ice Cave Peak?

[white field]

I have generally assumed that places like the high uintas are impossible for coverage. Tho you could build some novelty links.

I wouldn't put anything on a uninta summit, they are too iconic and wild. I wouldn't want to disturb them.

[real cedar]

Maybe.. I had a spark of inspiration. You connect the uintahs with 3 routers

clients fill in

one of those routers is south and hops you to moab

one hops you to the slc valley

and the other bolsters coverage and I was trying to find the three spots

tabby mtn, icecreak or marsh but south is hard

[white field]

Any of those peaks visible from Mt Ellen?

[real cedar]

let me go run elena again

So thats how im planning the hop from the valley. Put one on clayton at brighton

It sees both deseret and npr

now ill run ellen

[real cedar]

Oh my god it might be doable

The clayton, ice cave, ellen triangle

[white field]

Which app are you rendering this with again?

[real cedar]

Hey whats that

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/

so I think 4 routers

Clayton, The basin, Ellen, and Ice Cave peak

now youd have to have clients in the valeys to improve coverage but if you wanted to get it out there functionally you could

[real cedar]

RAKs, 10 dBi antennas

[white field]

You sure about that App? I'm seeing that these dont link at all

[real cedar]

deseret can see clayton

clayton can see ice cave

try running deseret to clayton it should work

then clayton to ice cave

[white field]

ellen cannot see ice-cave

[real cedar]

Lidar data may not be as good as the app thinks then

[real cedar]

Well I did say put one on The Basin

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=CA88WL5A

[real cedar]

That would get you over that hop

[white field]

clayton to ice cave

these dont look like they link per ispdesign.ui.com

[real cedar]

I think ubiquiti is smoking something there.. theres not many mountains higher than 10567 ft in that line

[white field]

that map you show looks like it doesn't include earth's curvature

[real cedar]

North of that you have the true uintah peaks

at 14 k

[white field]

yeah, but earth curves

[real cedar]

Ahh yeah if its taking an account that and theres enough distance .. oh wait I can switch heywhats that to a curved model

hang on

[white field]

yeah, make sure

[real cedar]

balls

[white field]

curvature alone is several 1000m elevation

yeah

Yeah that's always the challenge

[real cedar]

I was hoping to not have to climb grandaddy

[real cedar]

okay... Farm creek peak https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=SLJA27X7

that works

Then farm creek can see ice cave and haul back that way

Getting uintah to the moab basin is much harder give me a minute

[white field]

Yeah, there's a reason I tried to use Mary's Nipple + MT Ellen.

I looked at a lot of options.

If we fixed NPR <-> Mary's Nipple link this would be ez pz

[real cedar]

Ive got a couple now that you made me realize to click curved

[white field]

Mary's nipple can see NPR just fine.

[real cedar]

https://www.heywhatsthat.com/?view=C47B5WSG

so ellen to wilcox

willcox to farm creek

wilcox to ice cave

you could do it bud if you really wanted to

[obsidian storm]

it just needs a filter, right?

[real cedar]

I dont spend a lot of time out there but I figured I would run it in case I go out there

[white field]

I mean, how much snow do those alpine peaks see?

[real cedar]

10 ft

so you need a 12 ft pole

[white field]

Yeah, someone needs to ideally go up and replace it with a 1w node.

[white field]

Don't put a 12 ft pole in a remote wilderness area.

[real cedar]

@obsidian storm it needs a filter for 1 watt and those are expensive ish

[real cedar]

I mean.. I definitely could hahahahahaha

[white field]

Please keep wilderness area nodes restricted to god-awful desert sites.

[real cedar]

Ehh you got a point its is NF

in the uintahs at least

[white field]

Yeah, its just nice to figure out what the relative human impact will be.

We should only place nodes in wilderness zones if they are verrrry hidden.

[real cedar]

I mean if someone designed a small node with LTO batteries and stuff that could last a decade.. I feel like it would be minimal.. the issue is how ugly would it be

[white field]

I have friends who have to do trail work in those areas using only hand-pulled crosscut saws since chainsaws are not allowed.

People really love having no human impact visible.

[real cedar]

like youd have to make it blend and thats hard to do with a shiny 15 ft pole but I guess you could paint it green hahah

Well trees are an option at a ton of those!

[white field]

Yeah, trees are very reasonable/hidden.

[real cedar]

i checked satelitte.. 3 of the 4 are tree covered

ellen is baren

[white field]

I'm planning the treeline for Ellen

It's only gonna be west, north, and east facing signal.

[real cedar]

still doable from the mormon ridge area and wilcox haha

[white field]

We should really strive for minimal impact in places people want to enjoy.

[real cedar]

I prefer trees

I dont want to drag 50 lbs of concrete up

I also know what to sleeve a pipe in to make it uncuttable iwth hand saws if I wanted to be a tard but wont

[white field]

Trees unless there's already human impact. If there's already human impact, we should still aim for discrete.

I'd generally favor "easy to remove" as well so if someone from a service does find one, they shouldn't need to come back with construction equipment.

Since they are probably obligated to remove

[real cedar]

sadly that will not be the case at ensign

theres a 50 lb concrete buried lug

[white field]

rofl

[real cedar]

You need a damn back ho to remove it

[white field]

Yeah, that's already human impacted tho

[real cedar]

true

[white field]

Anything in a remote place should be restorable to natural with a pocket knife or multi-tool if someone decides to clean it up in 1-10 years.

[real cedar]

Wagon road ridge has tall trees and bushes

would still be doable if you wanted to

and its near a trail

[white field]

There's so much random oil-and-gas-and-cattle trash infra floating around Utah, I really don't want to contribute to the problem.

[real cedar]

abandoned too

without proper seals

annnd farm creek peak.. Yeah man I think we can do this stealth

question is how do we hide the 10 dBi antennas on a tree?

[white field]

lol

[real cedar]

Like im willing to climb

and paint the exact color of bark

[white field]

That zone in Manti is heavly impacted by UTV/ATV/hunting. TBH, fairly good zone for a placement.

[real cedar]

The tushars are difficult. I did say it before they are barren and the tree line isnt an option but I do not think its not human impacted

[white field]

oh yeah, just from the landscape Farm Creek looks really ideal

[real cedar]

Im pretty sure one has a radio tower

Belknap is just going to require our creativity and I think we can do it

There are peak signs and peak art

a light and a panel on a bunch of junked art likely will not add to the disturbance..

[white field]

Yeah, that's the kinda location we should be able to have more overt placements.

[real cedar]

You can tell 40 million years ago you wouldnt want to be standing there. But yeah this is quite the peak

[real cedar]

Probably. Its very remote. Its also quite beautiful

tons of atv activity all the time

Honestly I have half a mind to ride my mini bike up.. most of the way. Park it. walk up the last bit

[real cedar]

Im not sure Belknap gets a lot of snow. I think it blows off the top without anything to stop the wind.. so do you think fiberglass or a metal pole near the sign?

If we dont want to do belknap out of the barren peak concern.. I can find a desert way around from signal peak to the salt lake valley but deseret would then become key. I need the elevation to throw this signal far enough

https://wisp.heywhatsthat.com/
@white field if you want to run simulations with multiple routers coverage areas overlapped.
try the wisp tool in curved earth mode. Also theres the desert route to St george

NPR --> DPR --> Swasey Peak --> SIgnal Peak

They all can sit in trees 15 ftAGL... if we need a backup

Couldnt do Wheeler because I dont want the fed to get mad at me

[prisma saddle]

filters came today.

[leaden crow]

What node are you putting them on? I could do some before / after traceroutes and see what kind of SNR gain you get. You'd need to leave the node up w/o the filter for a while first.

[prisma saddle]

ill throw it on my roof one first then. it’s been up for weeks.

have to get it down first so will be a few days before i get to it.

see if it’s really needed right?

[leaden crow]

What's the node name? Let me do 12 hours of traceroutes before you install it

then again afterwords

[prisma saddle]

ace-roof

[prisma saddle]

thanks buddy.

other would be jal-roof

[prisma saddle]

dang a lot of extra wire. def need to get shorter ones.

[obsidian storm]

What do I need to connect this alfa antenna to my rak?

I'm going to mount the antenna directly on top of the box.

It hasn't arrived yet, but I'm going to put this filter in between

I didn't buy any of the adapters for it

[prisma saddle]

i used this don’t know if there is a better brand. but works https://a.co/d/g6g5S4L

ohh.

so you need the between stuff.

umm.

https://a.co/d/eWs2t5e

and this. https://a.co/d/h7TZLGs

again brands don’t know if there is better or shorter wire lengths. but that what i’m doing.

[leaden crow]

These are the ones I used on my Acasom node.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00COX9MTG
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B9RXN26M?th=1
They're a little bit cheaper than Littleaton options. I'm sure they are both good.

[prisma saddle]

ok cool ya.

[prisma saddle]

thank you sir for confirming that.

did anyone find that solar panel that had a battery built into it on amazon ? or still gone?

[pseudo kestrel]

has anyone seen RxAx poking around the mesh?

[prisma saddle]

3 hours ago

[leaden crow]

Same, I saw it 3 hours ago
│ 39 │ RaxAux │ !a0ccd1bc │ RxAx │ HELTEC_V3 │ YrjczT1t/ebIr64i20+Z+fOe/TOqmp4+gwltMArQhVc= │ CLIENT_MUTE │ N/A │ N/A │ N/A │ 94% │ 7.07% │ 0.05% │ -5 dB │ 3 │ 0 │ 2025-06-02 17:00:13 │ 3 hours ago │

[obsidian storm]

I last saw it 25min ago

[prisma saddle]

let me check my actual node. i was looking at the app but was too far away for updated info

[pseudo kestrel]

may the gods bless AUR

it's using the stock antenna, and it's hiding on my desk laying flat

[obsidian storm]

I have been logging for about a week and have seen 77 unique nodes on 51

[leaden crow]

Hopping through NPR for me
!eba4d26b --> !eba81f55 (?dB) --> !0e81d07d (?dB) --> !8f7bd9af (-13.75dB) --> !a0ccd1bc (-5.5dB)
Route traced back to us:
!a0ccd1bc --> !8f7bd9af (-18.0dB) --> Unknown (?dB) --> !e5e0542e (-2.5dB) --> !eba4d26b (-12.0dB)

[obsidian storm]

Well over the normal 50limit for long fast

[pseudo kestrel]

we don't have a lot of traffic, so we might be ok for a bit?

[prisma saddle]

only showing 38 "online/active" in the last 24. or so

[leaden crow]

A lot of us have turned our node_info, position_broadcast and neighbor_info way down. I think if everyone did that, I bet it would be functional with over 100 nodes.

[prisma saddle]

ya def a big change from how it was a month ago. looks much better from what i can see.

i know over half were up in those top ranges. or so

[leaden crow]

haha, I don't think I've noticed that one before
71 │ Depeche Node

126, but some of them I haven't seen for about a month

[prisma saddle]

ha ha ya seen that one

[leaden crow]

When I was last on LF20. I had a nodedb that was ~350 I think, but that was probably 10 months ago. I bet it's worse now.

[prisma saddle]

ya it is.

[real cedar]

If its longer than 24 hrs unfortunately the network considers the device offline

I figured that out the hardway

took a minute to ping my device

86400 is as long as I would put things haha

@obsidian storm 53bf Is now a router Late. It is located at 6100 ft. It is on a hill top adjacent to hill AFB

Aurora Ceresia is mine

It will remain a router late and help connect us northerners down to you guys until I can get the proper routers up in which it will become a strategic client for coverage gaps

https://maps.app.goo.gl/mf7rFKRbi4oBNanBA

It is 37-40 ft up in a tree

I got fedup with my signal issues and decided to make a temporary bandaid

I got direct traces from its location to AUR, NPR, 38fb, POTM, and a few people in the valley

[prisma saddle]

what ever works.. 🙂

i need to do that for UC,, just need to find a place to put it hidden

[real cedar]

climbing 40 ft into a pine tree is an experience

It does run the risk of getting shot

[prisma saddle]

somewhere near thanksgiving point up in a tree

[real cedar]

Unfortunately it can be seen all the way down on the road if you got a scope

haha

[prisma saddle]

ha ha. paint it?

[real cedar]

I didnt but its on the great western trail so its also a frequented trail. Im not too worried. The man that climbs that tree to get it can have it

prize well earned

That said it should connect south weber as well but probably that is the extent of its coverage north of the base

probably sunset and clinton and out to the lake but it will cut off from there due to a hill on the base

[real cedar]

I may have done fucked up

It sees alot.. well here comes ogden if there is anyone but I swear I could not physically see the city

maybe the apps being optimistic about 40 ft AGL

[prisma saddle]

lol almost stansberry..

[real cedar]

Oh it see about 73 ft below the top of stansbury and above

[prisma saddle]

eh its for "science" right?

[real cedar]

I could physically see stansbury island with my eyes

Im changing it to client as soon as I get the other routers up. Hell I might recover it. That might be a redundant node once I get the ideal spots up but holy accidental good placement

I totally winged that

[prisma saddle]

has it found aus or npr yet?

I cant trace it yet

[real cedar]

It has I got hops right through it

[prisma saddle]

eh remind me the url for that site. i was going to add some more sites to my account on it. not i cant recall the url.

[real cedar]

Not sure why you can trace it

[real cedar]

Heywhatsthat

Just google that

[real cedar]

It could be busy. I'm getting like 45 new node discovered notifications

Give it a day

🤣

[prisma saddle]

ah there was a diff one i was using. forgot its name. owell its on my pc bookmarks.

[prisma saddle]

ha ha . true

[dense basin]

God bless you

[prisma saddle]

hah so weird.

last heard, and uptime.. weird.

[real cedar]

You are welcome good sir

I needed to solve that problem

[real cedar]

You might be in a dead zone, null or drop in the land and getting unlucky. Where is your antenna located and what LOS do you have of hill afb

[dense basin]

Im stoked to see if anything north of the base pops up

[real cedar]

You guys all have this toggleable messaging unmonitored option. I don't have it on android

[real cedar]

I have my doubts. There's a lot of ridges and hills just hiding it barely

This is temporary until @maiden wraith goes to Thurston/Francis and I go to promontory point

[dense basin]

Oh both of those would be amazing

[prisma saddle]

ill see if its any diff tomorrow.

[real cedar]

They are both happening once snow melt supports the trip

[prisma saddle]

should be able to get it from npr or aus.

so who knows

[real cedar]

What's the rough location of your node

[prisma saddle]

herriman mtn view.

[real cedar]

In hindsight. I probably should not have climbed the 40 ft tree given I had a concussion on Saturday but hey.. Progress

[real cedar]

🤣 I literally just direct hopped to Bash through it

[real cedar]

What's your nodes name

I'll try from my end

[leaden crow]

Does anyone up north see Meshtastic 3648?
It's on a roof in Kaysville. Kind of surprised I have not heard from it.

[real cedar]

I'm going to. Look for it

One sec

[prisma saddle]

the one ypu are 12 hour testing lol

[real cedar]

I can see it yes

But last seen 7 hrs ago

Who's is it

There's NO way it can't see Aurora Jovialis

Its on my balcony with a filter and a 10 dBi antenna

And I can see kaysville with my eyes

[leaden crow]

It's this node:
#1197577977781821541 message
It's on a coworker's roof in Kaysville (don't know exactly where). He has a mast on his roof from an old wireless internet provider he no longer uses. I'm guessing it's a steel mast and not ideal with antenna mounted adjacent to it. I need to have him send me a picture of what the mount looks like.

[real cedar]

Steel is fine as longnas you offset the antenna a few inches off the tower.

So 🤣 Aurora Ceresia is jammed shut on every orifice with LEXEL

TRY GETTINV WET NOW

(It will manage this)

It is that node

[leaden crow]

Test so far:
Successful traces: 12
Failed traces: 12
50% Success
Outbound: -2.54dB mean SNR from 11 recorded values
Inbound: -10.47dB mean SNR from 11 recorded values

Those inbound outbound stats are on the first hop outbound and last hop inbound (for me). So not really good in this test. When It's done, I'll change it to just measure the last hop on outbound (that with be the inbound SNR your node is reporting)

[prisma saddle]

oh dang not that good. i need to adjust it higher i think too.

and that was ace roof?

[leaden crow]

We are pretty far away, this will be a good test to see if the filter gives you a measurable improvement. When I installed the Acasom filter in my NSL node, I got a really good improvement in these test results.

[real cedar]

As an additional protection. I painted the entire node box with clear outdoor silicone caulk @leaden crow

🤣

And the edges of the solar panel

[leaden crow]

lol

[real cedar]

And the underside

If this gets wet. I'm done with waterproofing

[prisma saddle]

lol wow.

[leaden crow]

The super power of Lexel is that it sticks to itself, so if you need to recaulk something, you don't have to scrape off all the old stuff.

[real cedar]

Lmfao well.. I don't think I will need to

When I say I put a lot in

I mean there's a WALL of LEXEL between the node and the enclosure

🤣

I put a heatsink on the node that sticks out into the air in the interior

Just a pi heatsink

Little bity one

[leaden crow]

Are you going to make it to the space on Thurs? If I don't get you that hat for the nebra this week, it might be a while. I'll be out of town all next week.

[real cedar]

I will be there for sure

I 999

Concussion or not

🤣

There's the very last node I wanted to see 😂. Hell yeah. I got the whole network in less than 4 hops

[obsidian storm]

What extra gear did you add inside? Do you have any pictures?

[real cedar]

I did not take pictures but I can fully explain and provide amazon links

First off you want this stuff
https://a.co/d/7Urz9hr

[obsidian storm]

I'm doing a Wismesh repeater mini right now.

So far I have just added a temp module (SHT3) and a ublox GPS module

[real cedar]

https://a.co/d/8MlVTEN

I have ass tons of these

I put them onto my raks top shield

Are there no slots

Holy shit that's small

[obsidian storm]

Two slots on the back.

[prisma saddle]

that a mini?

[real cedar]

If there's room forget that flat cell

These are better

[obsidian storm]

RAK19003

[real cedar]

Premade and 8800 mah

And protected

[real cedar]

I would have done the Bosch BME680 instead

[obsidian storm]

$22 vs $8

[real cedar]

This is true but you get a whole lot for that 22

[obsidian storm]

And I'll have physical access to this.

[real cedar]

Ahh

[obsidian storm]

It's not going remote

[real cedar]

Never mind then

[obsidian storm]

It'll just be outside year round

[real cedar]

You can do a cheaper BME somewhere else

Well then you don't want that flat cell

They SWELL

And get CHONKY AF in the summer

Shrink in the winter

They must have a lot of room to do this without getting punctured. I know cuz I have a wizmesh repeater box with a 10000 mah flat cell

It did that

I think it happens when charging below freezing or something. It like screws the cell and it swells in the following summer

I would seriously suggest cylindrical cells if you can

@prisma saddle successful traceroute to ace roof

Last seen 2m ago

Power stats (hardwired)

Umbriel --> Ceresia --> AUR --> Ace Roof

[leaden crow]

I just bought more Molicel because they are a good price rn.
https://www.18650batterystore.com/products/molicel-p42a
If you want a couple for that node, I could bring them on Thurs.

[prisma saddle]

sweet. i’ll keep messing with it and let you know when it hit it.

[real cedar]

Those are epic batteries

I got Samsung 50Gs if you want some @obsidian storm

But you gotta construct the pack

[real cedar]

Space them out 10m apart

Give the channel a chance to settle down

If you slam too hard you'll just drop at 30%

[obsidian storm]

Let me read about the batteries. Tbh I know 0 about battery chemistry

@real cedar anything else you added in there? Filter?

[real cedar]

I filter my Main node that transmits out from my house and my router nodes

Clients get no filter

They have no need

[real cedar]

ask phed about charging those safely

He will I equivocally tell you what dagron and I are saying to do

@prisma saddle another successful trace route. Same path

Yeah I have no issue talking to you

Maybe your CH util is high?

[obsidian storm]

This is for that horse trailer box

So it'll be the main step back to the rest of the mesh in those weird canyons/hills

@real cedar did you put a filter in your box? How did you connect it to the Rak without compromising the waterproof in that case?

Did you put a different antenna in there?

[leaden crow]

@prisma saddle also, most of the successful traceroutes I am getting to you are direct
Route traced towards destination:
!eba4d26b --> !d620d312 (-1.0dB)
Route traced back to us:
!d620d312 --> !eba4d26b (-12.5dB)

That is from Holladay, about 16 miles (direct los)

[real cedar]

Lexel
So I used SMA couplers to couple the filter on the inside in a rigid manner

I then filled everything with lexel around it

I have a 90 degree angle held in place with lexel for the antenna

That's how ceresia is connected up

Ipex --> sma --> sma coupler --> filter --> sma coupler with female end --> 90 degre adapter --> antenna

That's the feed line

10 dBi gizont 🤣

Probably why everyone can hear the thing in the valley now

Every receiving its location and node info OK?

[obsidian storm]

I don't get any env or location info for it

[obsidian storm]

Do you put descendant in there?

[real cedar]

It does not have anything like that on it. It broadcasts a fixed location to longfast

I can see you in 2 hops

So it's working

Its there to serve one purpose and one purpose greatly

Relay us up here to aur.. It has 1 month of reserve power not fully charged yet

[obsidian storm]

I must have missed the location broadcast

[real cedar]

In case I need to go get it haha

[obsidian storm]

I haven't seen it yet

[real cedar]

It definitely sees you 🤣

And r00fio

[obsidian storm]

Oh yeah. I can traceroute just fine

You just asked if we're receiving the location

[real cedar]

Force an exchange of position

It should give it to you precisely

I didn't bother spoofing it

My stats says it sees 27 satellites

Its gotta be spot on

[real cedar]

It has 5x of these in it
https://liionwholesale.com/collections/batteries/products/protected-5000mah-15a-21700-button-top-battery-wholesale-discount?variant=39848920744005

🤣

Fucking try and die node

Even with gps

The fit was tricky

Had to dremel some smooth sinks into the bottom with compromising the case

But I made it fit

[real cedar]

Well balls

New node seen
"Lorde"

Well a man could only wish

Uh oh I got duplicate traceroutes back

[obsidian storm]

Yeah, I can't compete a traceroute to you. 😕

[real cedar]

We could be approaching the useful edge of longfast

First things to drop are TRs I think

Then telem

AI says 37 days if the mppt on my RAK dies

Although I block fonts so oops

37 days if I lose solar. So if I need to snowshoe in winter and plan climbing a snowy pine. I should have ample time to wait for a clear day

[white field]

Perfectly timed they patched the iOS app and removed DMs to routers

I’m gonna have to fork it and compile my own version again 🫠

[obsidian storm]

So, you can add it back

Go to your router and tag them as messagable.

[white field]

rofl

That’s fucking helpful

My routers are 80 miles apart

And 150miles from here for the farthest one

Also on old firmware wtf is this shit

[obsidian storm]

it's really annoying tbh

#android message

^ There's me asking the android dev about it.

more chatter about it: #android message

This was designed intentionally so that the incentive is to upgrade the firmware rather than staying back on old firmware.

2.6.8 is the oldest the node's firmware can be to enable it

[white field]

Just ficking fork the firmware for 3.0

It’s fine to do, let us choose when to upgrade.

Im gonna publish a version that I can use to bypass this, but it won’t get merged to upstream so only my apple dev account will be able to install it. 🫠

[real cedar]

So they are forcing you to upgrade?

I still don't get what I'm reading.. I don't have iOS

[real cedar]

Wow. Reading on it now

Why

Messaging a router is a REALLY helpful diagnostics feature

Do they realize a good portion of their uses climb 12-14000 ft peaks for this. Like come on guys

I see what the idea set out to do. Stop people from unnecessarily occupying a router but why not just limit a router to its owners DMs then

Have some granularity

Not all on.. All off