US CA Bay Area

[blazing pine]

if you want your nodeinfo (and position) to show up in public, yes

[toxic kindle]

If my primary is private will my msgs get repeated or will I repeat others?

(Without the override freq thing)

[blazing pine]

only if 1) you're on channel 20 (906.875), 2) you don't configure it to not repeat

frequency is determined by primary channel, so you must override if you want others (strangers) to repeat

[barren socket]

ok, so what I was asking IS possible, but with all 3 channels sharing the bandwidth, by using separate keys?

[blazing pine]

indeed

[barren socket]

💯

[toxic kindle]

Ah

Ok

I was doing it all wrong

So my nodes were in their own universe

And didn’t get repeated or repeated anything

[barren socket]

Like an island?

[blazing pine]

@toxic kindle what's your node names again ? 👀

[toxic kindle]

My personal nodes are my last name followed by a number

The club nodes are Wilcox followed by a number

[blazing pine]

ah I see. I guess I haven't seen any of those then

oh wait, I don't know your last name

[toxic kindle]

You’ve seen the email

[blazing pine]

its too difficult to pronounce

@blazing swallow I see you have piggybacked your own encrypted channel on top of public channel

[toxic kindle]

How does that work?

[blazing pine]

I am all-seeing

[toxic kindle]

If those are encrypted msgs how are you decrypting them?

[blazing pine]

those are not encrypted (other than default encryption)

non-decryptable packets are "encrypted"

one day I shall have collected enough packets to crack 'em all! bwahaha

hopefully quantum computers for the regular consumer are obtainable before I expire

[toxic kindle]

If it’s a ham guy you can decrypt by knowing they say their callsign every 10 min and say the phrases 73, and cq a lot

[blazing pine]

--... ...--

[toxic kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-black-kitten-kitty-chatter-gif-8569324949467139666

[blazing pine]

[toxic kindle]

The Meshtastic cult

[remote vale]

I think you are referring to a setup which uses two nodes (1 on default frequency and second on a different frequency) which are then connected together using a local MQTT setup to share messages. This bridges between the two networks.

[toxic kindle]

@sleek wraith @blazing pine

Hello Benjamin,

I was playing around with a Lilygo T-Beam V1.1 and the Meshastic 2.2.15 firmware for a bit. After a full week of running my node outside in a weather proof enclosure, my node never heard another node. I then started to research this and another HAM had a node up on San Bruno Mountain for quarters if not months and had almost no users so he took it down. I'm not against the idea if trying but I don't know if we will have much luck.

What are you proposing here? Which specific hardware are you thinking of using, what antenna (stock, external / higher gain antenna, etc? Are you thinking of just an RF repeater or an Internet gateway? You mention this would be solar powered but what would this power design be as it would also need to include batteries, charge controllers, and their location?

[blazing pine]

I saw that San Bruno MTN node for months! ed96d9d4,3,SBMt,KN6PLV SanBrunoMtn

the problem was it was in ham mode, and only 1 other node (from what I could see) in Berkeley was running unencrypted

in your reply, be sure to mention the default encrypted channel has a lot more users and is not limited to just hams

[toxic kindle]

Imma need y’all to help me make a response

I didn’t know I would get this far

And I have no experience building solar setups

[blazing pine]

also: external antenna, repeater/router, power self-contained with only "external" parts being antenna and maybe solar panel, but all one unit

mention using rak and how it sips power compared to the esp32 in t-beam and friends

[toxic kindle]

I’ll get a response sent off by 3pm today

Also gonna include a LOS map from black mountain

[blazing pine]

I'm here for gramma 👵 checks if you need

[toxic kindle]

Also we will need to figure out logistics

If anyone has a extra rak unit that would be helpful

Cause shipping takes like 10 years from China

Also for the response @blazing pine can you give me a estimate of the amount of nodes in the bay

Of an estimate of how many the black mountain node will reach

[blazing pine]

#1197026438805725264 message just show him this, collected by OHR with a little rak node with stock t-beam antenna...

and there are a lot more nodes still unseen

[remote vale]

Some input here.

[blazing pine]

"if you build it they will come"

[remote vale]

1. solar is nice but the temperature issues (low temps) wreak havoc on the current 18650 cells available. Ask if power is available. These things only use a USB connection so the draw is nothing. It would be better to run a USB cable for power and upgrades (see next line)
2. firmware upgrades are a must. RAKs do have OTA but I've had failures with that process the last couple of revisions. You don't want to have to climb anything to do upgrades. A USB (with waterproof connection) lead to the node is almost a must.
3. I've got a spare rack and a 9db antenna I'd be happy to donate to the cause.

[blazing pine]

that would be one loooooong USB lead

[remote vale]

Depends on the location of course. If it was on somewhere like Monument of Chual; that wouldn't work out too well

[blazing pine]

I'd rather piggyback another esp32 to it just for power control (remote reset) and firmware updates over wifi

[remote vale]

That'd work. Beyond my experience though

[blazing pine]

the software would take a while to develop and debug though 🫠

[remote vale]

(ignorance speaking) What power options are available at the location in question?

[blazing pine]

I am so totally wondering how long a node can run on a small ultracapacitor bank

[remote vale]

Or would it be better to house the node is a sheltered area (building with power and won't freeze), run a long cable to the antenna, and put an amplifier in between adjusted to an output no greater that 30db PEP?

[blazing pine]

you would need receive amp too. much complimicated

[remote vale]

Yeah, probably right. I'm lacking in the whole cable length loss calculation thingg

[remote vale]

The San Bruno node is encouraging. In a separate message, maybe encouraging the owner of that node to put it back up but with the default channel enabled, as @blazing pine points out.

[remote vale]

https://1188159.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/1188159/02-DS-SuperBattery-D60-221006-1E.pdf

[blazing pine]

fascinating

but can't find where to buy

[remote vale]

Little on the big side, but workable. I'm not sure what charge controller to match it with though.

[blazing pine]

probably no controller needed

just stock rak stuff

https://a.co/d/0yAjtDI big chungus

can probably run a rak for a few days

[remote vale]

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/skeleton-technologies-gmbh/SKELCAP%2520SCF3200/13180992?utm_adgroup=&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Pmax_Shopping_Product_Silicon Valley Category Awareness&utm_term=&utm_content=&utm_id=go_cmp-20773039395_adg-_ad-__dev-c_ext-_prd-13180992_sig-CjwKCAiArfauBhApEiwAeoB7qBZ7vpnivLn8JURCG4h-wCewocVLWEoWSnFJPyEnPeacxU7LxWW5ChoCyRIQAvD_BwE&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiArfauBhApEiwAeoB7qBZ7vpnivLn8JURCG4h-wCewocVLWEoWSnFJPyEnPeacxU7LxWW5ChoCyRIQAvD_BwE

[blazing pine]

cheap enough, but still big chungus. and only 2.85v

[toxic kindle]

Yeah

Imma prolly also ask I can invite him to the discord

[blazing pine]

hold on lemme delete some incriminating messages first

[toxic kindle]

Cause Email takes longer to talk in

Well I could either, Discord, Phone, Or on some Ham repeater

[blazing pine]

how about on... WW6BAY

[toxic kindle]

yeah

@blazing pine
"How to reach me:

Voice wise, you can find me monitoring the WW6BAY Bay-Net repeater system (145.390-pl88.5 or 433.975+pl100.0). Digital wise, you can chat or leave a message on 1200 packet on 145.050 via the LPRC3 node up on the Loma Prieta mountain top. "

His QRZ page

Imma reach ot after I send the email

over the radio

[remote vale]

Neither could I. Looks like something a small consumer won't see for a while

[toxic kindle]

Black mountain is crazy

Coverage of most of the South Bay

[blazing pine]

👀

you forgot elevation

[toxic kindle]

Would be a lot better

@blazing pine Just using a preset someone made for the peak of black mountain

[blazing pine]

Black Mountain

K6OTR 441.85 MHz+ CC1 above Palo Alto, Monte Bello Ridge, elevation 2812 ft, 37.320348 N -122.142594 W ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[blazing pine]

wow that's like 45 degrees

so I guess it depends on the antenna

just go take a hike; fly a kite

[toxic kindle]

Its the WW6BAY site

[blazing pine]

https://www.bay-net.org/system-overview.html

[toxic kindle]

If we get black mountain then we should then get their east bay site

Bro

This is actually so hype

Whole bay coverage

Plan is that we assemble a node to put up on Black Mountain

Well if the guy allows it

He was saying he heard another ham operator putting a node up

he said he got a t beam but was using it like a client device

Prolly also in ham mode

[blazing pine]

#1197026438805725264 message

[toxic kindle]

I think Lora Short said he had a spare antenna and RAK

Idk about the antenna bc it is 9dbi but the RAK will prolly what we would base the build on

@blazing pine Have you seen a node with KI6ZHD?

[blazing pine]

doesn't sound familiar 👀

[toxic kindle]

That’s the callsign of the guy

[blazing pine]

probably too far

[toxic kindle]

I think we should use a lower gain antenna

[blazing pine]

someone fire up the simulator

[toxic kindle]

I have a sim but I’ll do it a little later

I’m also thinking about logistics

[blazing pine]

bbl, time to get up and forage for breakfast

[toxic kindle]

Who is gonna assemble it

And when and how will we deploy. It

Thinking if we could have the first in person Meshtastic meeting lol

Don’t know how

Don’t know where

Or when

But we could get everyone on the same page and assemble the node

Or just give the supplies to one guy and they assemble it

[barren socket]

Can the WisBlock w/out the GPS module still send GPS data to recipients via the Android app? It looks it's supported on iPhone.

[blazing pine]

yes

[remote vale]

Must be pizza involved......

[toxic kindle]

I got bored and decided to write a response. @sleek wraith @remote vale @blazing pine If yall wanna take a look before I click send

Hello David,

I may have some information on why your node was not able to reach any other node. It may have been due to the node being set in HAM mode or the primary channel not being the default public channel. I asked around about the San Bruno Meshtastic repeater and turns out it was not reaching anything because it was set in Ham mode and only one other node was able to talk to it because it was set in this mode. There are a lot of nodes out in the bay but most are using  “Long Fast” with the encryption key “AQ==” as the Primary channel. If you could pass this info on to the HAM who had the San Bruno node up that would be great.

The hardware for the repeater that would go on Black Mountain would be a Meshtastic Wizblock, which is a small, modular, and extremely power-efficient Meshtastic board. The antenna would be a larger 3 or 4 dbi antenna. There would be 2-6 batteries in the unit and the Wizblock has a built-in charge controller. I cannot say exactly what the design would be as I am collaborating with other Meshtastic users on this but it would be something along the lines of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3UluaqfTw.

By setting up this repeater you would enable Meshtastic communications across most of the South Bay. Lots of locally based repeaters exist already but a mountain repeater would help link it all together.

[remote vale]

Really would be ideal to know what resources are available. Maybe an ethernet cable? Would be good for POE. How high will it be up? How to address a hardware failure, as in does someone have to climb to pull the thing for physical reset/plug into.

[toxic kindle]

oh

I need to add that on to my email

@remote vale This improved?
The hardware for the repeater that would go on Black Mountain would be a Meshtastic Wizblock, which is a small, modular, and extremely power-efficient Meshtastic board. The antenna would be a larger 3 or 4 dbi antenna. Solar power would be the easiest to get going but if there available power we could also power the unit using USB or Power over Ethernet. This would not be connected to the internet so it would just be a regular repeater. There would be 2-6 batteries in the unit and the Wizblock has a built-in charge controller. I cannot say exactly what the design would be as I am collaborating with other Meshtastic users on this but it would be something along the lines of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h3UluaqfTw. Also if the unit fails or an update is required I (or some other person) would need physical access to the node.

[toxic kindle]

yeah

[toxic kindle]

Amazing email put together by @remote vale

Good to hear you gave a try with your T-beam. While you didn’t see any activity, it could be for a few common factors; Channel 0 (Primary Channel) renamed from LongFast which causes Meshtastic to use a frequency channel other than 20, no channels named “LongFast” with a default encryption key, HAM mode enabled, or just in a dead zone. As for the dead zone, we are hoping more participants and a few well-placed nodes can fix that problem.

I asked around about the San Bruno Meshtastic node and turns out it was not interacting with anything because it was set in Ham mode and only one other node was able to talk to it because it was set in this mode. There are a lot of nodes out in the bay but most are set with Channel 0 (Primary Channel) as “LongFast” with the default encryption key (“AQ==”). If you could pass this info on to the HAM who had the San Bruno node, this may greatly increase the number of people who could use a node in such a great spot.

The hardware for the repeater that would go on Black Mountain would be a Meshtastic Wizblock, which is a small, modular, and extremely power-efficient Meshtastic board. Power usage is between 10-20mA, with a peak of 100mA (usually on boot). The antenna would be a larger 3 or 4 dbi antenna. Output power is about 23dB. Center frequency is 906.875Mhz, 125 bandwidth (Meshtastic default channel 20) The enclosure size likely will be in the range of 8.6×6.7×4.3. The remaining config varies on site conditions, which I would greatly appreciate some info on if this plan has potential.

Possible configs could include:

1. Solar panel mounted on enclosure with 2-6 batteries in the enclosure
2. POE, for power only
3. 120AC to USB-C
4. 5VDC power source

There is no need or plan to connect this to the internet (no MQTT) as it can cause problems if things get busy. This location would enable Meshtastic communications across most of the South Bay. I’ve seen many new nodes popping up each month since I starting exploring Meshtastic 3 months ago. Lots of locally based repeaters exist already but a mountain repeater would help link it all together.

[remote vale]

If the plans get a go, it'll take a little time to build, config and test. I'd really like to avoid having to do a site visit for any fixes.

[toxic kindle]

yeah

Sent

With some minor fixes that grammarly suggested

[remote vale]

curse grammarly......

[toxic kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/grammarly-yba-gif-26054431

[toxic kindle]

yeah

I forgot to do that

I can forward it but doesnt matter since you can see the email contents here

[remote vale]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-les-simpson-matt-groening-ouff-non-gif-12807779

[toxic kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-gif-17766378259883108565

I will most definitly send an update about it

[blazing pine]

https://tenor.com/view/hungry-the-simpsons-homer-pizza-gif-4728641

[remote vale]

Mmmmmm, pizza 🤤

[toxic kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-grandpa-bush-gif-11361340

[simple hedge]

I love the monologue 🙂

[blazing pine]

look at the from= field

[simple hedge]

I hiked there once from the Montebello road up to Black Mountain. Nice views from up there!

[simple hedge]

You're right, it's a dialogue ^_^

[blazing pine]

I once hiked up to mission peak, but I wasn't into Meshtastic back then 🫠

[simple hedge]

Parking is challenging, unless you know to get a permit in advance and unlock the gate to the off-road parking. AllTrails was pretty good at describing this process that I missed first time I went up there

[toxic kindle]

If everything goes well we should have a node up there

And turns out Tae also has contacts with another guy with a repeater up there so if things don’t go well with this guy we got a backup

[toxic kindle]

@blazing pine @remote vale @sleek wraith

Hello Benjamin,

Please meet Tim Wilkinson KN6PLV who is the owner of the San Bruno Mountain Meshtasic node I mentioned before. I spoke to him about your email below and he replied:

Oh this is interesting. The node is still on site so maybe I can re-enable it and reconfigure it. Will be later today before I have a moment.

Maybe once reconfigured, that might be a step forward.

Strange since I don’t have contact info for KN6PLV and his QRZ is empty

Also he didn’t mention anything about black mountain

Ohh wait

He sent the email to me and Tim

[blazing pine]

bummer. i just powered down my node earlier

but i'll be receiving a new antenna today so i'll be throwing that on and powering it back up

[toxic kindle]

I dont really know what to respond with

Im just gonna leave an email saying ways to contact me

thats not email

[blazing pine]

just drop yer node name xD

[toxic kindle]

I can continue talking by Email or we can do it over Phone, Radio, or in person. My phone number is BLANK. Or if any of you have a Discord account you can join the Meshtastic local chat as we have Bay Area meshtastic collaboration going on there. https://discord.com/invite/ktMAKGBnBs. I would like to continue talking about the Black Mountain repeater (to help South Bay coverage) and talk with Tim about the East Bay San Bruno Mountain repeater.

Is this a good message?

[blazing pine]

talking... email...

[toxic kindle]

?

[blazing pine]

nothing. looks good to me

[toxic kindle]

Sent off

Lets see if I get a quick response

Since I sent it like 20 min after getting a response

[blazing pine]

if they go on discord they'll have a hard time finding this chat, lol

[toxic kindle]

I would prolly find them

[blazing pine]

47.575 miles 👀

the San Bruno node was the only node I could receive indoors

all others needed to bounce off my 30ft pole

[toxic kindle]

Don’t say it like that

On the LOS map it shows it gets South Bay but really patchy

Not for long

[blazing pine]

i ordered on the 20th... still no ship

[toxic kindle]

@barren socket if you were looking at buying wizblocks

[blazing pine]

someone configured their range test module wrong. it's sending once every 30 minutes instead of once every 30 seconds

also, I think it's been running for days

[blazing pine]

#1197026438805725264 message

[toxic kindle]

Don’t know if he’s turning it on today

Waiting for a response

@sleek wraith @blazing pine @remote vale

Removing Tim from this thread as Black Mountain is my site. The node I was running at home was definitely in HAM mode as.. I'm a HAM. I suppose disabling HAM mode and enabling encryption can be an option. Checking some next step details, I see some problems:

1. BayNet already has a 900Mhz analog repeater on 927.8625 with a -25Mhz RX offset. That puts its receive on 902.8625 which is realistically TOO close to your proposed 906.875Mhz frequency. I don't know what your referenced "125" bandwidth is but looking at https://meshtastic.org/docs/configuration/radio/lora/ , i have to guess this would be about 125Khz. I can check with some of my resources but I think this might be a deal breaker.

2. FCC transmission legality: a 23dbm transmitter + a 4dbi antenna is under the max 30dbm EIRP

3. Is the enclosure and antenna all in one weather proof, tower mountable enclosure?

4. Looking around, it looks like a 4dbi antenna would be about 1.2 feet tall. That could be accommodated on our short tower.

5. For power, we could consider 1) solar or 2) 120AC to either USB-C or PoE injector. For a solar panel, how large would it be? Optimal aiming it might not be possible though.

What I think is that the interference would not be an issue for the ham repeater but more of an issue for the Meshtastic repeater

Bc of the low power

[blazing pine]

nah, more of an issue for the ham repeater

[toxic kindle]

I wanna know if other people have done this with meshtatsic and if they noticed interference

[blazing pine]

it might inject noise into the repeater because it's very close

if the repeater's tx and rx frequencies were reversed it would interfere with Meshtastic node ¯_(ツ)_/¯

BUT if you can somehow get the node as far as possible from ham tower it might not interfere too much.

it's pretty easy to check for interference though. just bring up a temporary node and check for noise on repeater ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[toxic kindle]

I just asked on a ham radio discord about the interference

[blazing pine]

my Meshtastic node interferes with vhf receive on my radio

[toxic kindle]

That’s with lower quality radios

[blazing pine]

$600 receiver ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[toxic kindle]

Repeaters I would assume have really good filtering

[toxic kindle]

Oh

[remote vale]

Whats the upper and lower frequency for channel 20? I don't see anywhere in the docs a spec on the measurement of bandwidth

[blazing pine]

it's LoRa. I guess 125khz as stated in the email? ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[remote vale]

I'm guessing as well. Prefer not, unless it's craps

[blazing pine]

simple to check with an sdr

[remote vale]

I found some docs, confirmed khz

[toxic kindle]

I’m gonna need a team of mesh scientist and Ham nerds to craft a response to this email

[remote vale]

Given the power and spread spectrum, I'm unsure. Though it does not seem a likely conflict. It's going to be the hosts call on giving it a try.

[toxic kindle]

Yeah

I have an SDR so I could try just broadcasting on public channel

Seeing if it bleeds into 902

[blazing pine]

try it at different distances

[toxic kindle]

Science experiment time

[remote vale]

I've seen some demos and the transmit looked pretty tidy.

[blazing pine]

[remote vale]

The Semtech SX1262 should be pretty clean. It's definitely not a Baofeng bleeder.

[blazing pine]

much bleed to the lower side

like 30 feet away

time to try 1 foot

OUCH

[remote vale]

Neat tools!

[blazing pine]

after further tests, i can conclude that it might not cause any problems as long as the antennas aren't right next to each other

[remote vale]

Could you quantify the db at 6 feet?

Also, which radio chip is it?

[blazing pine]

it's my first time using this. i don't know how2sdr

i also have another $200 sdr that has a stupidly wide bandwidth, but i haven't really used that one either. derp.

[remote vale]

You've got more than I.... x > 0

[remote vale]

MOXON!

[blazing pine]

it's what i had laying around

[remote vale]

Your host may benefit from a lower band test of the proposed device.

[blazing pine]

can confirm no noise on 902.8625 on this lil $200 icom receiver with node 2 inches away

INFO | 00:44:34 394194 [Router] Received text msg from=0x3e1c8f95, id=0x755f881a, msg=testing a very long message for a very big packet just to test a very long transmission to view on an sd

wait why did it chop my r

[remote vale]

Nice. Which Lora chipset?

[blazing pine]

that 1262 or whatever it was

[remote vale]

Heltec, SX1262 sounds right

[blazing pine]

ping from node in the sky to a t-beam ~5-6 feet away, and its reply

[toxic kindle]

So distance does really matter

[blazing pine]

i selected 4194304 fft size and now my computer suffering xD

wow it's like 4 frames per second

[remote vale]

That tiny little spurious just below 906 is interesting.

neat

[blazing pine]

it may be the cheapo sdr dongle i'm using... who knows

oh you mean that very bright blip?

it might be from some other source. i get those blips from time to time

and i hear it on my monitoring radio too

[remote vale]

The thin line to the left of what looks like the response

[blazing pine]

ah, that's the ping (waterfall falls downward)

and that blip is indeed just some noise from another source

[remote vale]

Ah, thanks for the orientation

[remote vale]

@toxic kindle I would venture to guess this could help your prospective host with evaluating possible interference.

[toxic kindle]

Wow

You used as many fancy words as possible in the sentence

[blazing pine]

probably not that specific screenshot. the "splatter" extends past the sdr's bandwidth range

but again, that may be due to cheapo sdr

i'd try my expensive one, but that requires compiling a list of dependency hells that i'd rather not suffer today

[slender pelican]

I just got a message from someone but they don't show up in my node list. How does that happen?

[blazing pine]

no nodeinfo

[blazing pine]

what was the message? :>

and who uses a t-deck anyways

[slender pelican]

I need $50000, lol jk its "Anyone out there?" and the node is !318ef2b8

[toxic kindle]

@blazing pine

[blazing pine]

never seen that one 👀

[toxic kindle]

The cursor is on 902

Why am I getting interference still as seen on waterfall

[blazing pine]

splitter splatter, might it just be cheapo rtlsdr dongle?

[toxic kindle]

It’s the rtl sdr

Quite cheap

[blazing pine]

yeah, looked like it in the screenshot xD

[toxic kindle]

I can hear the interference noise when I send a msg on the Meshtastic node

[blazing pine]

i can't hear it on my expensive lil handheld icom with heterodyne receiver

[toxic kindle]

What’s the verdict?

[blazing pine]

let me try one more test. i'll transmit a carrier on 902.8625

[remote vale]

Scully?

[blazing pine]

i get major desense when holding radio less than 1 feet from node. slightly over 1 feet and it's nearly no effect

[toxic kindle]

So I should tell him that if it’s more than one foot away from the receiver antenna it should be ok?

[blazing pine]

hold on there's more

when signal is very weak, desense can happen from 6-8 feet away

but this is all from within the radiation plane of the antenna (whatever that means)

i don't really consider myself a ham even though i have a license, so take what i say with a grain of salt

[remote vale]

... and it's also coming from an omni antenna. It may be worth exploring a ~220deg or so radiation pattern to the front (area of interest). Still looking like a possibility

[toxic kindle]

Do you have some sdr screenshots that I could include in the email?

[blazing pine]

i... already put it away

you can use yours. it sucks just as much as mine xD

[toxic kindle]

@blazing pine What should I say is a safe distance?

[blazing pine]

a couple feet or more below the 900mhz ham antenna

actually, let him decide 😆

[toxic kindle]

Can I send that

Was the node really 2 inches away?

[blazing pine]

... there was no noise on top of the white noise that was there

(no lora-type noises)

[toxic kindle]

1. I did a bit of testing and research and I don't think the node will interfere with the repeater. I tried out with an SDR and sending longer packets over Meshtastic and interference wasn't an issue as long as the node and receiver were not within a couple of feet of the antenna. Having the Meshtastic node antenna lower than the Repeater antenna would prevent any interference issues. With filtering on the repeater it would be negligible I think. But it is your call as I do not have experience making or maintaining ham radio repeaters.
   Here is a picture of a long Meshtastic packet being transmitted and recorded using an SDR only 2 inches away from the node:

2. The enclosure would be a waterproof box that would have the hardware to let it easily mount to a pole. the antenna would either be sticking right out of the enclosure or it could be wired to be a bit higher than the enclosure box.

3. PoE or USB-C would be ideal but solar could be used if that isn't available (I would imagine the site has backup power so it would keep charging). The solar panel that would work on a solar build would be something like this soshine panel (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B099RSLNZ4). I don't think optimal aiming would be required for a build like this but if we decide to go solar there would be a lot of testing done on it.

My Response

[blazing pine]

probably better to leave out the filtering bit 😆

because... interference is interference

[toxic kindle]

That was the response I got from the ham radio discord

[blazing pine]

wait, the 2 inches thing was with an fm audio receiver, not sdr 😆

[toxic kindle]

1. I did a bit of testing and research and I don't think the node will interfere with the repeater. I tried out with an FM audio receiver and sending longer packets over Meshtastic and interference wasn't an issue as long as the node and receiver were not within a couple of feet of the antenna. Having the Meshtastic node antenna lower than the Repeater antenna would prevent any interference issues. With filtering on the repeater it would be negligible I think. But it is your call as I do not have experience making or maintaining ham radio repeaters.
   Here is a picture of a long Meshtastic packet being transmitted and recorded using an FM audio receiver only 2 inches away from the node:

@blazing pine This guy is gonna think im some Super Genius Highschooler but im just harvesting the info from smarter people

[blazing pine]

"with a receiver tuned to 902.8625MHz"

[toxic kindle]

Here is a picture of a long Meshtastic packet being transmitted and recorded using an receiver tuned to 902.8625MHz 2 inches away from the node:

[blazing pine]

I mean the "I tried out with an fm audio receiver" part

it's an icom ic-r6, btw

one of the most easy to use radios ever, contrary to some reviews

[toxic kindle]

Testing with an Icom IC-R6 tuned to 902.8625MHz and transmitting longer packets over Meshtastic revealed that interference was not a concern, provided that the node and receiver were more than a couple of feet away from the antenna.

[blazing pine]

"with a signal generator creating a carrier on the frequency" 😁

oh u mad scientist, you

[remote vale]

signal generator or, the proposed transmitter chipset?

[blazing pine]

signal generator emulating an fm transmission from some repeater user

[toxic kindle]

Here is a picture of a long Meshtastic packet being transmitted and recorded using an FM audio receiver only 2 inches away from the node:
(With a signal generator creating a carrier on the 902.8625 Mhz frequency to emulate the repeater)

[remote vale]

Testing with an Icom IC-R6 tuned to 902.8625MHz and transmitting longer packets over Meshtastic revealed that interference was not a concern, provided that the node and receiver were more than a couple of feet away from the antenna. The test was conducted using a simulation of the proposed device. We could of course rerun the test for the final device.

[blazing pine]

um, there was no screenshot of that

[toxic kindle]

oh

[blazing pine]

the icom ic-r6 was emulating repeater input

signal gen emulating repeater user

[remote vale]

Is this a decent representation?

[blazing pine]

probably not, because rtlsdr sux

[remote vale]

ok. bummer

See previous blurb. It's a best effort (thank you @blazing pine ) with current tools

[toxic kindle]

1. I did a bit of testing and research and I don't think the node will interfere with the repeater. Testing with an Icom IC-R6 tuned to 902.8625MHz and transmitting longer packets over Meshtastic revealed that interference was not a concern, provided that the node and receiver were more than a couple of feet away from the antenna.  The test was conducted using a simulation of the proposed device.  We could of course rerun the test for the final device.
    Having the Meshtastic node antenna lower than the Repeater antenna would prevent any interference issues. With filtering on the repeater it would be negligible I think. But it is your call as I do not have experience making or maintaining ham radio repeaters.
   Here is a picture of a long Meshtastic packet being transmitted and recorded using an FM audio receiver only 2 inches away from the node:

[remote vale]

Ultimately, if the host experiences any problems, down comes the node. It's their house, always.

[blazing pine]

but what is the picture

[blazing pine]

also, that's an sdr 😆

[toxic kindle]

I wrote that before

you are confusing me

Chnaged it to say SDR now

[blazing pine]

I am confusing

[toxic kindle]

1. I did a bit of testing and research and I don't think the node will interfere with the repeater. Testing with an Icom IC-R6 tuned to 902.8625MHz and transmitting longer packets over Meshtastic revealed that interference was not a concern, provided that the node and receiver were more than a couple of feet away from the antenna.  The test was conducted using a simulation of the proposed device.  We could of course rerun the test for the final device.
    Having the Meshtastic node antenna lower than the Repeater antenna would prevent any interference issues. With filtering on the repeater it would be negligible I think. But it is your call as I do not have experience making or maintaining ham radio repeaters.

Here is a picture of a long Meshtastic packet being transmitted and recorded using an SDR only 2 inches away from the node:

[remote vale]

I'm sure he wouldn't mind. The distance would surely eliminate problems if they occurred. It's very nice he's even considering.

[blazing pine]

did you really put it 2 inches from the node?

why it look so clean

[toxic kindle]

I thought I would have to explain what meshtastic is but I think he knows more than me

Found out hes the leader of the ARDEN Mesh group in the whole bay area

[blazing pine]

ah I know that

[toxic kindle]

with like 10k+ dollars invested in the system

[remote vale]

Nice. I'm sure he'd be a great person to learn from.

[toxic kindle]

Should I send?

[blazing pine]

@timid turret any input? 😁

[toxic kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/slumber-aladdin-sleep-mad-angry-gif-4700615

[timid turret]

Yes, this. Exactly this.

What's the question? Still in mid slumber.

[toxic kindle]

He asked for input on my response to an email

[toxic kindle]

The response is in refrence to

[timid turret]

Is that David, aka Duv?

[toxic kindle]

David Ranch KI6ZHD

[timid turret]

Different David

You're proposing to put a meshtastic device on this tower?

[toxic kindle]

This would cover like 99% of the South Bay and a bit of East Bay

[blazing pine]

on Black Mountain, supposedly on same tower as a 902.8625 fm repeater

[timid turret]

add to that email info on the device's RF power output and the antenna gain attached to the device.

[toxic kindle]

We talked about antenna gain the the previus email

[timid turret]

cool

[toxic kindle]

I mentioned power output in the first email

[toxic kindle]

Been using these smart people to help me respond to the emails

[blazing pine]

I dum-dum

[timid turret]

How high up from the control room woudl this be?

[toxic kindle]

Probably would be the next part of this email thread after I send this

Dont know yet

[timid turret]

instead of mentioning usbc or poe, generalize it a bit more and just say 5v power @ 0.5A

it won't matter to you in what form it comes in.

solar would be good but you'd need to then come forward with the analysis data on proper sizing and battery storage required to maintain service in the worse case of heavy weather during the winter.

in that case, you'd expect a many days of nearly no sun

[blazing pine]

4x18650 dynamite pack with heater pad

[toxic kindle]

I would say USB-C is easiest to handle

But if anyone has a giant roll of Ethernet cord lying around then we would do POE

[timid turret]

make it easy on yourself 🙂

[timid turret]

I'd stay away from POE

[blazing pine]

noisy noise is noisy

[timid turret]

that would imply switching regulators and switching regulators will add noise

[remote vale]

I've got a bunch of outdoor rated. Depends on how fare up it goes

[timid turret]

stay far far away from switching regulators.

for radio use, especially on a tower shared with others, only use linear regulators. be a nice neighbor.

[blazing pine]

usb-c power usually supplied by switchies

I believe it was the owner who offered ac or poe

[remote vale]

or USB..... (5v)

[toxic kindle]

So should I remove POE from my response....?

[timid turret]

if you use ac or poe, you'll end up doing a lot of signal anlysis before bringing it up to the tower to make sure the rails are clean.

[blazing pine]

solar most simple, except for batteries and temperatures

[toxic kindle]

Wouldnt USBC be easiest?

Just plug it in and add some batteries

[blazing pine]

I have a feeling USB comes from AC dingle dongle

[timid turret]

this is cool! for your thought experement ... imagine this is going to space.

once launched, you will have no access to it.

build to those specifications 🙂

[toxic kindle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRY0iF8my8U

[blazing pine]

build in a slumbering esp32 that will wake up when it's time to flash new firmwares

[toxic kindle]

As many batts as can fit are going in

If the Site goes down we got like a year

[blazing pine]

and if batt goes derp you have much fireworks?

[toxic kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/boom-bomb-explosion-iron-man-tony-stark-gif-15429820

[timid turret]

Test the batteries for internal resistance. Make sure they're within your spec.

[blazing pine]

ultracaps are cool

[timid turret]

Independently fuse the batteries so if one fails, it won't take out the others

[timid turret]

very unappealing discharge curve on ultracaps

[toxic kindle]

Dont think I have the expertise to build something like this so the build would prolly be at someone else's house

[blazing pine]

hey, i like only being able to use 10% of my power source!

[toxic kindle]

Should I send the email?

[timid turret]

@toxic kindle Now that you've woken me up ... how much longer will you be around? i need to go walk the dogs but when i'm back, let's talk about open sauce.

[blazing pine]

anything i build will be suitable for #notabomb

[toxic kindle]

Ill be available till 11 pm

[toxic kindle]

#isABomb

[blazing pine]

haspossibilityofbeingabomb

[timid turret]

https://foil.zone/t/building-an-18650-battery-with-individual-cell-fuse-wires/5611

[timid turret]

cool. will dm you 🙂

[blazing pine]

for my next build i was planning on soldering 4 18650s together... not with wires but soldering the casing...

[timid turret]

oh, for the love of everything perforated ... please don't solder 18650 batteries

[blazing pine]

extra solid!

i've soldered CR2032's before. no boom/pop/bang

just need very high temperature and nice acid flux

[timid turret]

the damage is unseen and may result in fire down the line.

[blazing pine]

it's okay as long as it's 30 feet in the air and not in my hands or between my legs

[timid turret]

https://amzn.to/3uUdLc7

[blazing pine]

too expensive for my retired butt

[timid turret]

be careful 🙂

[remote vale]

you got him going.......

[blazing pine]

i have a lincoln welder

[remote vale]

I'm sure you put your Lincoln logs together with it. :p

[blazing pine]

linkin' 18650s

[remote vale]

sigh, I miss my Syncrowave 350

[blazing pine]

i miss my long dingdongs for reaching nooks and crannies

when i see people welding i have the urge to ask them if i can have a go

[remote vale]

Makes two of us. Keep having to restrain myself from buying one of those TIG/MIG/Plasma cutter combos.

[blazing pine]

i cut with mig when i'm too lazy to set up the plasma for a 3 second cut

[timid turret]

If anyone here needs to weld anything. Please consider me an available resource.

My shop is available to anyone here

I have a multi process mig machine that can do aluminum and steel. Also have a 350 amp water cooled tig and a plasma cutter

[blazing pine]

burning man related?

[timid turret]

Basic necessities of a well stocked garage

It does get used for burning man, but was not purchased for burning man

[blazing pine]

i left all my big toys when i retired

[timid turret]

How long ago did you retire?

[blazing pine]

don't even remember. 3 years ago, maybe?

[timid turret]

Typical Retired person. Cannot tell time. Consider that a success.

🤣

[blazing pine]

i sleep all day and night

@timid turret where are you

[remote vale]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-one-world-i-want-to-one-day-live-in-daydream-one-day-thinking-hopeful-gif-17098300

[timid turret]

@toxic kindle Good chat! Like I said, now you know how to get my attention. 🙂

[toxic kindle]

👍

[remote vale]

Thank you, for the thought experiments as well

[timid turret]

For power consumption on the tower… a repeater or router will use significantly more power than any other node. This is because the radio front end will be very busy and that uses a lot of go-juice.

[remote vale]

100ma @ 5v a good budget? assuming a RAK board.

[toxic kindle]

I would assume it would take us at least 2 and a half months to have a fully deployable node

We could start building it before we get approval since even if we dont get this site we will find another location

[blazing pine]

https://www.msesupplies.com/products/mse-pro-100-pcs-of-18650-cylinder-cell-case-with-anti-explosive-cap-and-insulation-o-ring fascinating. supplies for making fake batteries!

[toxic kindle]

And after we finish the first we could have a template for other Bay Area Nodes

[remote vale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzt9RZ0FQyM

(feels like a beavis and butthead moment)

[blazing pine]

mmm spicy

[remote vale]

https://www.nitecorestore.com/NITECORE-NL1835LTHP-18650-Battery-p/bat-nite-18650-nl1835lthp.htm

[toxic kindle]

@remote vale We are going to be submitting a exhibitor application for open sauce this year.
If you can add some improvements to the application before we submit it on Friday that would be great.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WRkSFoormcfNwsKh2eGCWi9C-TVR-NleCi5YD0K0WeI/edit#heading=h.a3kk772b2uio

Open Sauce is happening in SF this year and if we can get in we can boost Bay Area engagement in meshtastic and the project as a whole

[remote vale]

I'll take a peak tomorrow. I was hoping to get time off to go, but looks like i'm working those days 😦

It's making me think of what kind of sensor stuff to demo..... hmmmmmm

hottest/coldest spots in the exhibit area?

sensor count of people passing a node with motion sensor (unfortunately I've run into the buggy interference on the gighertz radar RAK sensor)

[toxic kindle]

Paxcounter idea

And weather sensor

[remote vale]

Position sensor stuff would be fun but don't think GPS would be reliable in there? Don't know though

Maybe custom MQTT feeding position data from another site where stuff is always moving around? That would be a fun map

I gotta stop or i'll never get to sleep.

Maybe a node with an I/O board visitors could control on a custom channel (QR code provided)? I haven't had the chance yet to experiment with those.

[simple hedge]

It's quite challenging to read a day worth of messages at a time 🙂

[remote vale]

It's been abnormally busy (chatty)

welcome

[simple hedge]

Can you share it with comments instead of just read-only?

Thanks!

[toxic kindle]

Updated

[simple hedge]

is it a typo that the document is called "Mesthastic Open Sauce" - sauce - instead of source? 😄

[toxic kindle]

https://opensauce.live/

[simple hedge]

Thanks for the context!

[toxic kindle]

@blazing pine Turns out the guy re-enabled the San Bruno Mountain Node but then it died

He said he will take a look at it when he goes up there

[toxic kindle]

https://tenor.com/view/roblox-gif-25300545

[remote vale]

I took a look at the open sauce exhibitor application page. https://opensauce.live/exhibit-application/

Never have I ever seen questions like those..... hahaha

Sounds like a fun time

[remote vale]

Edits made

[toxic kindle]

New Email Alert @remote vale @blazing pine

Hello Benjamin,

Thank you for your notes on your testing. You mentioned this was tested using a "simulation of the proposed device". What does that mean? Every transmitter has unique characteristics and the real impact comes from the real antenna. In BayNet's setup, the master receiver antenna is on top of the tall tower where as potential mesh device would be down on the short tower so there would be some substantial vertical distance. The 900Mhz radio is also on a set of cavities but since the LORA transmitted frequency is in between the analog radio's TX and RX frequencies, it won't get blocked out. Regardless, I've asked some other people in the group on their thoughts here. The 900mhz side of the repeater is not used very much so we might be willing to accept some level of interference. Still waiting for a reply there.

For the enclosure mounting, can it accept being bolted to the side of a tower brace (aka.. NOT on a pole)?

When you say USB-C, what does that really mean? You're not really proposing some very long USB-C cable from the inside of the building, exit the building, go up the short tower and into the Meshtastic device. Also, how will this device be managed to troubleshoot any issues, upgrade the firmware, etc?

For your SDR capture, this looks like Gqrx. Correct? Which SDR hardware?

End of the email

@sleek wraith

I know updates cannot be pushed OTA so it would have to be mannually updated like at least once a year

[blazing pine]

updating via Bluetooth might be possible

[toxic kindle]

Could you explain about the "Simulated device" and what SDR it is

[blazing pine]

just say cheap rtlsdr. but that screenshot certainly doesn't look like 2 inches away

[toxic kindle]

I was going off of what you said

[blazing pine]

so your node was 2 inches away from your sdr? 👀

[toxic kindle]

good that he didnt ask about that

[toxic kindle]

This

[blazing pine]

[toxic kindle]

@blazing pine For the proposed device should I just say you were using a WizBlock node and sending a test transmission on 902 as you said?

[remote vale]

I believe @blazing pine was using a replay of a SX1262 based transmitter which is the same as the proposed unit. Of course, David is correct on the unique characteristics of the actual device. That'll be down the road a little. The preliminary test was conceptual.

As for the updates, that's what I've been concerned about. I've had more failures than successes with OTA updates. The only other option is to wire up the reset but and run it, power, and USB +/- in a cable to the building. Need total length for testing. If this works, any updates would be from the building.

As for mounting, I'm sure we can make anything work. Just need to know what the size of the framing, method or bolt pattern is to make an adapter plate.

[blazing pine]

for the "simulation", icom ic-r6 acts as repeater input. a signal generator at some distance acts as a repeater user, generating a carrier. a Meshtastic node with an sx1262 is placed at various positions near the receiver and is pinged to elicit a transmission from it.

[toxic kindle]

👍

[toxic kindle]

This is what he said "You're not really proposing some very long USB-C cable from the inside of the building, exit the building, go up the short tower and into the Meshtastic device. " it might be because of how long the cable will need to be.

[blazing pine]

you failed to mention usb-c will be power only 😆

BUT usb-c with data may be useful

I wonder how feasible it'll be to have a cable hanging off the node where it can be accessed easily

[remote vale]

Only two ways I know to update a RAK board, OTA and USB-C with access to the reset button.

[toxic kindle]

Sat image of repeater site for context

[blazing pine]

how about both? Bluetooth to put device into update mode, USB to copy firmware 😆

but reset button more reliable

[remote vale]

Is that possible? If so, works for me

[blazing pine]

the newer bigger rak solar enclosure has a waterproof connector

m8 5-pin

gnd 5v data+ data- reset

anyways, time to go back to sleep. gute nacht!

[toxic kindle]

Are you nocturnal?

lol

@remote vale I think I have most of the response worked out but the part about the usb c

Sounds like he thinks its a dumb idea

[remote vale]

The idea is a 5vdc source. As for a long USB wire, I'm not in love with it either. But there aren't many choices.

[toxic kindle]

Something like this has the cable fixed but we would need at least a 10 ft long cable
https://store.rakwireless.com/products/wisblock-power-supply

[remote vale]

As @blazing pine eludes, it would be a 5 wire cable from the node to the building carrying 5vdc and low voltage data lines

Don't worry about length and power supplies. Those can all be made and altered

[blazing pine]

the data part doesn't really have to go into the building. it just needs to be accessible without climbing

[toxic kindle]

if we go Solar will data cables still be needed for updates or could OTA work

[remote vale]

If we need to run power, might as well put it all in the same place

[remote vale]

yup

that's why solar isn't really worth it here

[blazing pine]

solar is easy clean power though

[remote vale]

No climb is the goal

[toxic kindle]

Also I will mention that settings will be changed over the admin channel

[remote vale]

https://tenor.com/view/inflation-clean-energy-equalityfederation-jefcaine-tax-the-rich-gif-27533375

[toxic kindle]

And the status will be monitored through other nodes

I think we could also set up a sort of discord bot later on to ping everyone if the node goes down or it loses significant battery (Not important rn but a cool idea)

[blazing pine]

best to address his concerns and leave the extras out 😆

[remote vale]

My OTA experience has been more failures than sucess, especially the last couple of updates. If it fails, it bricks the board and you must have physical access to reset and update.

[toxic kindle]

Yep, important thing is updates through some sort of data wiring and setting changing through admin channel

[remote vale]

wired also allows the bluetooth to be shut off

[toxic kindle]

Also one more thing is that repeater owners like to keep their sites secure so he may want to be the only one to set this up and he may want to be the only who updates it to not let others into the site.

[toxic kindle]

Batt saving 👍

[remote vale]

Noise saving and reduced ability to hack

[blazing pine]

except wired introduces many times more noise than Bluetooth 😆

[toxic kindle]

You win some you lose some

[remote vale]

You think with a shielded, twisted pair?

[blazing pine]

you can probably test this out with a battery powered node you have handy. compare SNR readings unplugged and while charging

[blazing pine]

noise comes from 5v power source

[remote vale]

As MC Hamster pointed out, it takes a good linear power supply to help reduce that

[toxic kindle]

Before we deploy anything it needs to be checked by the one and only Mc hamster

[blazing pine]

how about this: node and antenna on tower, access box with batteries and solar panel and USB at the bottom

put as many batteries as you desire, lol

add one of them USB repeater things somewhere in between

[remote vale]

May not be needed if site already has power backup. We are talking somewhere like sub .05 watts

[toxic kindle]

I would want at least like 1 battery as the case will have more than enough space to fit them. Also cannot go wrong with extra backup

Since we would want something like this to withstand in the event of an emergency

[blazing pine]

battery will have to be able to handle low temperatures

[remote vale]

That's the challenge..... My experiment on that failed. I moved it to constant power and backed up the power source instead

Gotta run all, crashed server awaits me.

[toxic kindle]

Idk how much heat the board produces but in a enclosed case would that be able to protect it?

[blazing pine]

definitely not

maybe if you add in a light bulb... which will promptly cause a meltdown in summer

[remote vale]

hahaha... easy bake oven style

[toxic kindle]

I used the Rak VisBlocks, although which variety I dont recall. I have a second device in the basement so what I’ll probably do is update that and configure is appropriately, then switch it out with the failed one at San Bruno Mtn. Two man job to replace it on the tower though, so might be a few weeks before I can get that done.

Thanks
Tim

[timid turret]

Depends on what you want the updates for. The core of the functionality doesn't change.

[toxic kindle]

Keeping the device up to date would be good

[timid turret]

Find a stable version and stick to it.

As a repeater or router, there are very minor changes. That part of the code is extremely stable.

[toxic kindle]

Ah

How about if there’s changes to routing algorithm

[timid turret]

Breaking changes will come in Meshtastic 3.0

That'll be a while out

[toxic kindle]

I was thinking a bit about issues with bandwidth and I think that could be helped with creating a protocol for people to follow so we dont end up in those scenarios. Like leaving breaks in between replying to a message in a conversation or in a emergency avoiding texting all together unless it is necessary to facilitate emergency traffic

[timid turret]

anything that requires social enforcement will break. the underling protocol and algorithms are already pretty good.

i think we need to be very careful. we can't stop meshtastic from being used in an emergency deployment but none of what we have is certified to work in an emergency. please be very careful when setting expectations.

if there's a fundamental changes required for any 'sos' type change, an rfc should be created for the proposa.

i think that can be done without any fundamental breaking change.s

[toxic kindle]

Yeah

But within just the meshtastic discord bay area group we could start doing that

[timid turret]

I ❤️ experements !

[toxic kindle]

And was thinking when we get full coverage we can schedule a test at a specific time and everyone tries sending messages at the same time and seeing what goes through in such a busy scenario

[timid turret]

No need to involve others in that. It's easy to create this kind of traffic.

[toxic kindle]

At least sending out messages a day and an hour before the test to let people know that the test will take place

[timid turret]

yup

how much of the bay (the water area) would be covered by this?

i know someone who was talking about building a meshtastic network for kayakers. there could be synergy here

[toxic kindle]

San Bruno Node

Black Mountain

Those are both in the works and not deployed yet

The San Bruno Mountain node owner is going to be setting it up in about 2 weeks since he has to get someone else to help him climb the tower.

[timid turret]

@toxic kindle what link budget is that setup for?

[toxic kindle]

The default I would assume

@timid turret Should I tell him to set a specific setting

[timid turret]

could you try wiith a link budget of 145db?

[toxic kindle]

How can that be changed?

[timid turret]

it should be in the software that created those maps

[toxic kindle]

Thats just an LOS map

[timid turret]

oh, then that's not representative

one moment ... i'll get you a link to the software

[toxic kindle]

I think I know what you are talking about

Ive used it before

@timid turret When he nstalls the node will he need to chnage the link budget?

[timid turret]

the link budget is part of the equation that determines if two devices can talk to each other

included in the equation is any losses from cables, gains from antennas, efficiency of amplifiers ...

see the table here:

https://meshtastic.org/docs/overview/radio-settings/#presets

[toxic kindle]

ah

[timid turret]

i calculated those link budgets based on regular antennas with no gain

[toxic kindle]

You confused me a little

[timid turret]

the link budget there is the minimum signal required for two deivces to communicate

your goal is to be above that number

[toxic kindle]

@timid turret Relating to our previus discussion #meshtastic-on-www message

[blazing pine]

maybe make up a list of guidelines.

• If your EDC node can see a router/repeater in range, you don't need your own router/repeater
• Increase position broadcast interval to 1 hour (3600 seconds) or longer for stationary nodes

[timid turret]

If there are any guidelines that suggest something different from our defaults, they should be evaluated to make sure that the guidelines are correct and if so, the defaults should be changed.

We should be easy enough to use where settings don't need to be touched. Super Geeks always want to change them and our problem reports go up.

[blazing pine]

did the meshtastic team ever get access to the ukraine mesh? 👀

[timid turret]

they publiushed connection information on their website

[blazing pine]

they have a site?!?

[timid turret]

yup

[blazing pine]

https://wikimesh.pp.ua/uk/home ?

[timid turret]

that's another one, not the one i remember seeing

[blazing pine]

oh 😐

[timid turret]

the guy importing the hardware for Ukraine was on our discord some time back

[blazing pine]

indeed. i recall

https://mesh.in.ua/grafana/d/R4RChebVk/mesh?orgId=1&refresh=5s fascinating

i wonder what all the DIY_V1 are

[toxic kindle]

they say for position broadcast no less than 3600

Does this mean 36 minutes?

[blazing pine]

3600 seconds

1/24th of a day

[toxic kindle]

Ah

Every hour

A little too long for my use case

I would go with like 10 min for myself

[blazing pine]

i would go for 1 day

for base nodes.

mobile nodes have smart position

[toxic kindle]

Yeah

Depends on what your using it for

[toxic kindle]

But there is an overdide

So even if no movement it still sends

[blazing pine]

and if there's no movement you probably don't need to send at all

anyone who needs your latest precise position can just send a position request

[toxic kindle]

But something like what Ukraine has with some settings for people to set up nodes would be good

Not like we are forcing other people but it would be easier so they dont have to go on a deep dive to determine what settings work best

And so the mesh doesn’t explode

But that’s when we get the mountain repeaters up

[blazing pine]

i'm more worried about node imploding than mesh exploding xD

maybe there ought to be a spare or two

2 devices in one enclosure. add a switch. hang a long "pull to activate" string.

[blazing pine]

@toxic kindle

[toxic kindle]

That’s Tim

@blazing pine what location

Also try sending him a message

[blazing pine]

no position yet, but I think I'm receiving directly

[toxic kindle]

Prolly not at the peak I would think

[blazing pine]

node first seen <t:1693306366:R>

[toxic kindle]

He said he would wait till installing it

[blazing pine]

oh what great timing. I just went out of range of bluetooth

[toxic kindle]

@sleek wraith you seeing anything?

[blazing pine]

his node went up almost 3 hours ago

oh wait I'm not getting his node directly. there's one in between 🫠

I'd do a traceroute if it didn't fail like 95% of the time

I might be receiving his node through one of @sharp mantle's

[toxic kindle]

He prolly is just testing the node at his house

If it was on the mountain I think everyone would get it

[blazing pine]

indeed

it's a rak

[toxic kindle]

Wait…

Try sending a message

[blazing pine]

i did. it may or may not have gone through

oooh so THAT was him. berkeley

so that wasn't another ham connecting to the san bruno mtn node back then. it was himself

[toxic kindle]

The node from which you got the node info about the San Bruno mtn node?

[blazing pine]

i used to receive d3bd,KN6PLV Berkeley from SBMt,KN6PLV SanBrunoMtn

but now he's changed his name to callsign only

i have a dinky little Heltec V3 WSnotL connected to a server in the basement. with a humongus ugly bash script to scrape the serial debug log live

i'm scared to upgrade firmware and bork everything

neighborinfo packets confuse it

i had been meaning to write a bluetooth version to connect directly to my rak in the sky, but i computer illiterate

plus my bluetooth/wifi module died in my computer and i had to rip it out 🫠

i'm looking through my 600+ lines of nearly-readable bash right now

biggest mumble of jumble i've written

micropython is okay. regular python is much bad

[toxic kindle]

Use Java

[blazing pine]

i don't like simple scripts taking 3+ seconds to start

i failed java in university. that's how much i hate it

sure, i'll do toilet paper code, but i'm gonna make you work to decode it!

[toxic kindle]

First language I learned

If a language isn’t similar to Java syntax I refuse to learn it

[blazing pine]

i used to be PHP god :>
i'd port all sorts of C crap over

[toxic kindle]

Like Js and C++ are really similar and I picked them up quick

I want to figure out if I can control a Meshtastic device through serial or Bluetooth using Java

Bc I refuse to use python

I know there’s a library for doing that in python

[blazing pine]

oooh, i have uncompleted stuff here. apparently i estimate "lost" packets from nodes

had to pull some voodoo there because bluetooth protobuf packets incremented the node's packet counter too. derp

BUT as a result of that voodoo i could also "guess" whether or not a phone was connected to a node

this can be viewed as oooh neat undocumented feature or... OH NOES PRIVACY VIOLATION

so there was a time when i logged all the times @sharp mantle connected and disconnected from his node

[toxic kindle]

@sleek wraith can you check your purple node

[remote vale]

What am I looking for?

I see lots of colors

[toxic kindle]

Oh sorry I confused you two

[toxic kindle]

@barren socket is testing with a T Beam and he said he sees your node

[remote vale]

https://tenor.com/view/nibbles-feed-me-hungry-gif-12247158

Send me message

@barren socket , what's the node name?

[remote vale]

Is it Sutcliff?

[barren socket]

Nope, it's Meshtastic 9d34 and Orange - 3d00.

@remote vale

I sent you a DM around 8pm last night

[remote vale]

Nothing 😦

Those aren't in my list either

[barren socket]

bummer, but it's showing a checkbox in the cloud, so doesn't that mean it was successful???

[remote vale]

For a direct message, no. Just means some picked it up

[barren socket]

ahhh ok, yeah maybe it was the 2nd node inside my house at a 2nd story window. 😦

good to know, thanks.

[remote vale]

Sounds like you see the Purple?

[barren socket]

Yup I've been seeing Purple often.

total of 9 nodes

[remote vale]

Can you see the nodes off Montevina?

[barren socket]

not sure which one that is. I see:

Cupertino Hogwarts, Cupertino Snape, Purple, Discone, AbelDog, Floor, Meshtastic 9470, BlueMoon, and Meshtastic 8b47

[remote vale]

Abeldog, BlueMoon, Floor, Discon and I think 8b47 are all up there

[barren socket]

is Montevina a street or neighborhood?

los gatos?

[remote vale]

Does Purple ID end in b1d3?

Street

[barren socket]

how do I find the ID? (such a newb)

maps shows me its south of Reid Hillview Airport. 🙂

21.5km from me but don't know how to find its ID

With a T Beam, about how far should the bluetooth reach to my phone? I'm used to getting around 20-30ft for BT earbuds in my house, but only getting half of that with the T Beam. I hope the RAK Wisblocks we'll be ordering will be sufficient for when they go on top of a mast on our 2 story roof, which will make them further than now.

And I was using the 2nd node inside the house as a relay for my msgs to get out to the mesh via the one sitting on the window sill on the 2nd floor. So does that mean that msgs sent from the window sill's phone will also give me a false sense that my msg got out, b/c the check mark was shown just because the downstairs on got the message? So that check mark is actually unreliable in the way I'm using it? I'm doubtful that my BT, even with 20-30 ft range will reach a node at the very peak of my roof, let alone if I put it on a mast.

hence why I'm using 2 nodes inside the house

[remote vale]

I see the ID's in the desktpo app, not in the phone app. You found my purple!

For me, the RAK BLE works fine from ground floor and into my attic

it may work.

[blazing pine]

who owns 82c4? 👀

last seen 2 hours ago. no location. probably in repeater mode?

my meshability just got waaaay better

[remote vale]

neat

[remote vale]

Your log files are going to grow

[blazing pine]

only 117MB so far.... for this session

[barren socket]

Ok, but we have 2 stories, so just have to try it. But if it doesn't, and since I shouldn't have 2 nodes in the house, just always have to go upstairs to get vertically closer to the BT in the node?

[toxic kindle]

@remote vale do you have a repeater in your attic?

[barren socket]

@blazing pine can you pls post one of your colorful logs of the nodes you saw today?

[remote vale]

Could always put a bigger BLE antenna 🙂

[remote vale]

Box is in the attic, cable to antenna nearby

[barren socket]

oh wait, yes, the one on the roof will be set up as a repeater. It's currently not, so maybe that's why I'm getting those "false checkmarks?" Right now, they're both as just nodes.

[toxic kindle]

I’m thinking of putting a repeater in my attic bc then I don’t have to deal with drilling into my roof plus cabling is shorter

And it doesn’t have to be waterproof

How well does Lora penetrate wood?

[remote vale]

Wood, water proof layer, nails, sheathing, roof material...... not well

[toxic kindle]

Ah

[remote vale]

Use Thompson's. That's better for penetrating wood

[toxic kindle]

?

[barren socket]

Thompson's is a wood penetrating wood sealant. 🙂

to preserve wood

[remote vale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJv8clb2n40

😜

[blazing pine]

for today

[barren socket]

Thanks @blazing pine It was a long shot from Cupertino but I'm not in there. Maybe once I get a real base setup w/ a gain antenna (3 weeks from now)

IF RAK Wireless ships on time

[remote vale]

I've got an 8dbi with pole mount if you want it

[barren socket]

Ooohhh, maybe. I'll DM you for details.

[distant quail]

Good morning Bay Area! I am currently in North Bay Petaluma next the racetrack with a clear shot of DTSF. Hope to hear from anyone today through Sunday. Look out for MVM3.

[toxic kindle]

Send a message if you are able to find anyone

[toxic kindle]

New email

Our estimation would a cable run of 50ft from power source to Meshastic node. Considering that Meshtasic nodes get their firmware upgraded via USB, that seems to be what is really needed. Do you know what other sites do to support 50ft of USB cable for useful power delivery and firmware updating?

[toxic kindle]

Been talking with people in #960633667749822564 and I think we might need to go back to POE

[toxic kindle]

Probably be something like the node tells the node that it wants to update to switch frequencies and when they both switch frequencies it starts updating

Since we don’t want it updating and taking up the entire default freq

[blazing pine]

it would probably never happen. not enough storage

you would need another device connected to assist

[toxic kindle]

Next Friday (March 8th) I will be doing a Meshtastic introduction activity with some nodes after school. From the school we have a good line of sight of Mt Umunhum. I was thinking that if anyone could go up there starting from 4 pm it would be cool having the students text extremely far with these small units.

[blazing pine]

https://tenor.com/view/hiking-red-bull-walking-up-a-mountain-walking-through-the-snow-gif-21410853

[toxic kindle]

Mt Umunhum is accessible by car all the way to the peak

[blazing pine]

that's no fun 👀

unfortunately i still don't have a motorcycle helmet after my little oopsie last year xD

[light yacht]

hi friends... fired up my t-beam in berkeley the other day, but I live in a pseudo faraday cage. Took a trip to SF yesterday, but only got intermittent pings to nodes.

[toxic kindle]

@blazing pine may have gotten you. He has full coverage of that area

[blazing pine]

time range?

and node name 😆

[light yacht]

VDBX ...over the last couple days it's been in and out of my bus. had it on the roof a couple days ago and it saw maybe 5 nodes. my trip to sf was like 3-6 ish yesterday.

thinking about putting an external antenna on my bus and keeping it solar powered and then getting a tdeck to keep on me

[blazing pine]

not a single hit

[light yacht]

i also may have mixed the oe antenna with my other lte and wifi antennas.

[blazing pine]

here's all the nodes i've ever seen with their last positions

colored by hops. lower usually means farther

my skynode is off right now, so unless the ISS casts its holy shadow upon my node's solar panel it's unlikely to revive until tomorrow morning

[toxic kindle]

Is it the issue where if the node dies it can’t come back?

[blazing pine]

i've encountered that once... but i hope this isn't the second time, lol

i had shut it down manually

[toxic kindle]

Is there a way to fix the issue?

[blazing pine]

#random message

(bigger battery)

also, that battery just finished charging

[toxic kindle]

I mean a actual solution

Like maybe a separate device just to turn it back on

[blazing pine]

or just a timer circuit to reset the dang thing once every 24 hours

[blazing pine]

bring a radio/sdr for some visualization of them meshy packets

[toxic kindle]

Maybe

[wide basalt]

hey everyone, I'm based in SF and have a few friends that are getting repeaters and nodes in places. would be great to connect with other folks in the area!

is anyone organizing irl get togethers in the bay?

[toxic kindle]

May be coming soon

Would be good to build some repeaters together

[wide basalt]

yeah that would be awesome

[toxic kindle]

@blazing pine So I decided the repeater will be POE but if theres also a battery in it and lets say the node somehow dies and turns off, is there a way to turn the node back on without climbing it?

[blazing pine]

apply power

[toxic kindle]

Would the unplug and replug still work with batteries involved?

[blazing pine]

I assumed you meant batteries died

[toxic kindle]

yeah

[blazing pine]

otherwise it's not usual for a rak node to power off on its own

[toxic kindle]

Sounds good

I dont think it gets to freezing in they bay so temp for batts might not be an issue

[blazing pine]

mountaintops be cold

[toxic kindle]

Between the range of -20 to +50°C (-4°F to + 122°F) is sufficient but the most optimal storage temperature is somewhere around 77°F or 25°C. If you are planning on storing your batteries over a long period of time, it is actually better to have them charged at around 50% rather than 100%.

[blazing pine]

that's storage, not usage

[toxic kindle]

18650 cells are rated normally at between 20 and 25 degrees Celcius.

Any deviation from this will create a slight loss in efficiency. A 10-degree deviation might account for a loss of 20, or 30mAh.

While the extremes, below zero, or above 70 degrees, will see much faster cell degradation.

Using a cell at suboptimal temperatures will decrease its cycle life.

Tip: Never charge your 18650 cell below freezing! Eg. in a garage in Winter as it will degrade particularly quick this way
While you are using your cell, if you notice it gets hot, let it rest. Under normaly use your cell should not get hot-to-touch, and should never exceed 60 degrees. If it is getting hot fast, you are over-stressing it.

[blazing pine]

that. below freezing.

[toxic kindle]

hmm im thinking we should put a weather sensor on the board for the repeater

The temp would be the inside but the air quality and barometer would be useful

[toxic kindle]

@blazing pine thinking we can use a POE injector that has backup power in it so we don’t have to deal with 18650s on the build

And since if the cable disconnects there will be no redundancy I would want to use a thicker cable and tie it down so it doesn’t sway around

[blazing pine]

mptt poe injector? 😆

[toxic kindle]

?

[blazing pine]

I have a battery backup powering all my wifi access points over poe

so uh... have you set a budget yet?

[toxic kindle]

I will probably buy most of the stuff except for the Wisblock since Lora Short has one

So budget would be like 100 bucks for everything that’s not the module

[blazing pine]

that's... suspiciously low

[toxic kindle]

Idk

The stuff is relatively cheap

Budget more like 200

Have not began taking prices

[blazing pine]

I'll donate a paltry $20 for each node that goes up. maybe others can chip in too 😆

needs moar industrial strength materials

[toxic kindle]

I’m prolly not putting a node up on my house so the budget that would go to that is going to this

Ok well

Heading off to the paara meeting

Where I will see @simple hedge

[remote vale]

Not if there is a battery keeping it partially on.

[toxic kindle]

Got all my nodes with me

[remote vale]

to the moon?

For budget, let's see how this first unit performs. I've already bought the case and a bulkhead connector. I'll do some testing with USB on a 50ft lead next week (kind of curious). POE should work too, but I don't have that extra RAK hardware on hand. I'm not worried about cost all that much as I look at it more as a hobby to tinker with right now.

[sharp mantle]

Hey Bay Area friends!

Been busy in the lab this week and boy have I missed a lot! Very excited to see the mesh getting going strong here

I have some funds to donate too!

not to mention if anyone needs some hardware I have a few RAK boards to spare

[remote vale]

Very kind, thank you.

[sharp mantle]

I gotta catch up on the messages here about these potential tower site plans but if there is still a plan for solar I have been testing several setups here and back on the east coast for about a year on and off now, including a LTO build, and would be happy to share some input or equipment too. I have a nice sunpower 5W panel to spare at the moment

I also have a pile of WSL and Heltec V3s if anyone wants to hand out to local frens. I am finally printing up cases for all my T-beams to evangelize to my labmates lol

[remote vale]

At least for the Black Mountain site, solar doesn't sound like it'll be practical (aiming for no-climb for maintenance and firmware flash, not ideal positioning for a panel and mounting will be lower on the tower). Maybe another site down the line?

[sharp mantle]

Totally, if there is 5V or AC available there is no point to solar!

[blazing pine]

solar = clean noise-free power

[remote vale]

https://tenor.com/view/more-power-home-improvement-tim-gif-22738460

[blazing pine]

why am I thinking of the name tim

[sharp mantle]

one of the messages I saw seemed like access after placement was unlikely

[remote vale]

I get the impression it may be limited. It's at the generous host's discretion.

[sharp mantle]

IF these sites remain friendly, it would be very cool to be able to upgrade the tower sites to a node with the Ebyte E22-900M30S module for 1W capability
I am waiting on a package from china to test out a build with a nRF mcu from one of the guys on discord here.
this wouldn't be ready for a good few months though

[remote vale]

https://tenor.com/view/toy-story-aliens-toys-amazed-oooh-gif-17511948

[remote vale]

I can think of a spot in the Los Gatos mountains this would be good at. Just need to make some friends up there

[sharp mantle]

All this need to make friends; just downloaded the HAM prep app on my phone again. The motivation I needed to upgrade and renew my license. I think I only have a few months left 😛

[toxic kindle]

Got 3 nodes while inside a ham radio meeting

Inside

That’s crazy

This is 0.4 miles away

[blazing pine]

I received some sf nodes from inside my house earlier today

11 miles, methinks

[toxic kindle]

At first I thought someone else at the meeting had a node on but no

But it was funny I was talking about meshtatsic and tons of other people came up and asked questions

Also found a guy talking to another guy about Meshtastic

I was just looking at them and see one pull a t echo out and I immediately joined the conversation

[blazing pine]

just inserted yourself in there eh?

[toxic kindle]

Yes

Common ham radio practice

When I was talking about Meshtastic one guy creeped up on me and started asking questions

[blazing pine]

"breaker breaker"

[toxic kindle]

Yep

[toxic kindle]

Got to meet @simple hedge and @barren socket in the flesh

[barren socket]

Was great meeting you too @toxic kindle ! Wish you could have stayed and joined us at the pizzeria (spontaneous decision I know). @simple hedge and I decided to check it out and had a great time talking tech, including meshtastic of course. You could have met some cool who's who of the ham world including someone who has a repeater!

[toxic kindle]

If I had my drivers license maybe I could have

I’m not the one who chooses to go or stay

[blazing pine]

wot. how young are you

[toxic kindle]

I’m 16

Still on a permit

[toxic kindle]

Might stay for the pizza next time

Sounds like fun

I like to talk more than listen

[barren socket]

👍

[toxic kindle]

New email

Hey Benjamin,

“The NRF52 board can do BLE updates. One of the people I spoke to said he uses a Pi that is plugged into the node to SSH into the Pi and update the node but I decided that is too complex for this use case.”

Yeah.. that would do it too though a rather complex way to do it. I'm sure there are remote USB extenders out there that use PoE as their base technology. I just haven't found them yet. That probably means that they will be expensive too.

“This video is a good example of what the final build will look like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTbt20A5JdY
To get the POE into the Wizblock an ethernet module will be used.
https://store.rokland.com/products/rak-wireless-wisblock-ethernet-module-rak13800-pid-100076”

I see in that "Rokland" URL, it says:

"Optional (coming in 2022 Autumn Launc Event) it supports PoE (Power over Ethernet) to supply the WisBlock modules."

Best I can see.. that PoE enabled system isn't available.

“I think having a Power injector with a battery that it switches to if power is not supplied will help with redundancy and make it.”

Today, we could use use an AC to PoE power injector but we're actively working on setting up battery backup at our Black site and at that point, we have various options. from basic DC-based PoE injectors like:

https://www.amazon.com/EverStar-iPoE-24W24G2DW-Injector-EdgeRouterX-UnifiAP-AC-Lite

We also have other PoE enabled Miktotik switches on site but I'm pretty sure all ports are occupied

[simple hedge]

It was again a great PAARA meeting, it’s something I look forward to every month!

[toxic kindle]

Talked to rob and we are on for a 15 min Meshtastic presentation in a couple months

[simple hedge]

Let us know if you need a hand with anything.

[barren socket]

Can you guys confirm something? I recently did a point-to-point test by leaving a node on top of my house roof and driving around town with another, as a basic range test. I sent test messages from various intersections as I was driving further away, waiting for the check mark ack from each one, as a sign of whether my message made it to my house or not. If it failed, I'd try 2 or 3 times w/ node on the car's roof before moving to the next spot. On my Android phone, no other known nodes in those areas. I did not do any tracerouting at the time b/c I thought the check marks were reliable acknowledgements. At 1.5 miles away from my house, I was getting check marks, and nothing further than that, so I thought that was the max range test for our area. Not so sure any longer. Upon checking the message history of the RX node that was at the house, many (~3/4) of the messages that showed me a check mark (from the TX node) aren't on the message list of the one at home (RX node). The ~1/4 that were found on the RX message list were from a couple that was only a block or two from my house! I thought I was getting 1.5 miles but maybe not??? I also got 20+ repeated messages received over the course of a day later from one particular intersection--weird. Anyway...
It seems like I was getting "false acknowledgements" that my transmitted messages were getting received at the intended node. So what do you guys think could have caused that? Hidden nodes? I understand the iOS app displays an "implicit ack from another node" message, which makes more sense than what appears to be inaccurate acknowledgements on my Android phone?

[toxic kindle]

You should try asking in #help as it is more general. There are less people in the local Bay Area chat.

[blazing pine]

a checkmark on public channel only means your message was repeated by another node

the correct way to test would be direct messages to your base node.

a checkmark'd cloud is an implicit ack

[barren socket]

Yes, everything was a DM to the house's node. On Andoid, I only saw two states: empty cloud icon or a silhouette of a person with a check box. I thought the latter was an ack of the intended node getting it. But maybe not? There isn't a 3rd state of that icon, right?

[blazing pine]

person with check box is a ack from the recipient

cloud with check box is implicit ack (some node repeated)

[barren socket]

True, there are more than 2 states displayed. I've got many msgs with person with check box, but they're NOT found on the received node's message list. Missing at least a handful of them, maybe even 10ish

[blazing pine]

did you have a device connected to your base node?

[barren socket]

if the recipient acknowledged them, shouldn't they be displayed? Yes, at the time of the tests, the Android phone was connected to the base node

[blazing pine]

fascinating.

are you sure those were person-with-checkbox and not cloud-with-checkbox?

[barren socket]

Yup. I also got clouds with a slash through them, which I know is a failed send

[blazing pine]

hmmm

[barren socket]

the device was in the exact same spot near the house's node, while I was driving around with the other node/device

[blazing pine]

maybe device went to sleep or and/or got disconnected?

[barren socket]

I wondered that too but that's doubtful, b/c as I was returning back closer to the house, those msgs ARE present in the message list

as were the couple as I started driving away from the house (initially close to the house)

[blazing pine]

you need someone to man the base node... or a streaming camera.

or stream phone/device screen somehow

[barren socket]

or my dog responding to my msgs in realtime (if I had a dog with opposing thumbs!)

🙂

@simple hedge when you re-run this test, note the part above about making sure the device is close and connected to the base node before you leave. Double check that you can in fact see the incoming msgs, which is what I did too.

[simple hedge]

Will do!

[barren socket]

meantime, I'll ask in Help too

thanks @blazing pine

[abstract yoke]

I was at a place in emeryville and saw a few more nodes! I was pretty happy to see it

[blazing pine]

which ones? 👀

[abstract yoke]

Let me connect to my node and look.

[blazing pine]

af28 (kroo-tbeam)? d3bd (KN6PLV)?

[toxic kindle]

Can anyone help me respond to this?

[remote vale]

Maybe a node in the relay has store and forward turned on?

[barren socket]

@remote vale Maybe, but it'd be a hidden node then, because I didn't spot any.

[remote vale]

Can't do much about that. I know routing can take some interesting paths

[remote vale]

Let me digest it

Confirm 50ft of cable from device to inside of shack is firm?

[toxic kindle]

Yep

[remote vale]

ok

[barren socket]

Sorry, What I wrote wasn't clear....I don't think there were any hidden nodes. Apparently, there was an issue in the past with explicit ack w/out the recipient getting the msg. We'll re-test after updating firmware.

[remote vale]

weird

The messages showing up much later makes me think store and forward

[barren socket]

Yeah kind of, other than so many of them. 🤨

[toxic kindle]

You guys think I can get Meshtastic written on a cap like this? 😆

[remote vale]

mystery penpal?

[toxic kindle]

Send the obligatory “Join the Meshtastic discord”

[toxic kindle]

Is that a heltec?

[blazing pine]

t3s3

lilygo

[toxic kindle]

I got 3 of those

[blazing pine]

I have 5 or 6, I think

[toxic kindle]

Wow

[toxic kindle]

Wish they had gps

[blazing pine]

get heltec wireless tracker for that

[toxic kindle]

What’s the battery life for them?

[blazing pine]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ never used one

but I guess it depends on how spicy it gets

airbag life

[toxic kindle]

Typo

[remote vale]

So, looks like an off-the-shelf USB extender will do the trick. Wisblock uses a USB 2.0 spec. USB over ethernet extenders are out there, allowing well over 100ft runs. I might even be able to wire the reset button into it. I think this is the best way. At the user end on the ground, there will be a reset button, a USB to plug into, powered by a small AC adapter.

[blazing pine]

how about reset when power is applied (via tiny capacitor), and have a capacitor plugged into battery port too

[remote vale]

Need the double tap capability

[blazing pine]

just toggle power twice and presto, USB storage mode!

I have a stupid idea. rak gets rectifier. when power is reversed, reset gets triggered
USB extender probably wouldn't like it though

[hollow kiln]

RAK is best for power saving. it is less power hungry. Heltec is good for lower cost but be prepared to buy a larger battery pack for it

[remote vale]

https://tenor.com/view/ドロン-忍法-パッと消える-poof-disappear-gif-15682669

[slender pelican]

Ha! this was me driving around Folsom. I clearly made a typo. Don't text and drive.

[blazing pine]

mommy told me to never talk to strangers

[slender pelican]

What's your node id? Up here in EDH we keep getting someone sending messages but they can't hear us.

Shoot I don't think my router has a good view to Antelope. Not in my node list 😦

[blazing pine]

I used to visit Folsom a few times a year

... like 20 years ago

[slender pelican]

Yeah its starting to grow. I have some nodes in my list from Jackson which is like 47km.

Folsom has changed a lot in the last 15 years or so. I moved up here from San Jose in 2007.

Mostly just more people and houses.

[blazing pine]

y u no miles

[slender pelican]

I read what is on my android app, never tried to change it.

[blazing pine]

configuration > display > somewhere

[slender pelican]

No mater what its set for I'll be converting it for someone lol. My wife does km.

[blazing pine]

IMPERIAL

https://tenor.com/view/fortnite-fortnite-battle-royale-star-wars-imperial-stormtrooper-gif-18697310

[toxic kindle]

British spy

[slender pelican]

Maybe Norwegian spy, wife is from Norway.