[America Server] Discussions

[thick charm]

I mean, they've always been 1 element 2 unaligned for 1 damage

[night token]

I only faced 1 bin and lost to it

[thick charm]

is just that we've got a couple of characters with charged attacks that may increase damage, or lower cost

[tropic slate]

Oh morning queue managed to kick out all the 26-9s

Rip

[pearl glade]

im still in the game

welp it is what it is

[solar aspen]

What's that?

[pearl glade]

HOLY SHIT LFGGGG

what a game

[lucid sable]

;-; I give up

queueing on mobile is just so bad

eugh

[pearl glade]

ok im queing for my last game

someone snipe me pls

[dark saffron]

that game was very fun freddy but god your jean is annoying

[pearl glade]

jean is a freken tank

[solar aspen]

Sorry to read that 🥲

[thick charm]

was my first time competing and honestly I'm pretty glad I did

met cool people and also kinda opened my eyes to a lot of characters I didn't give a second thought

[pearl glade]

so true

[dark saffron]

i only managed to get 13 games bc i kept only having time when the bot broke

but they were a fun 13 games

[thick charm]

like I'm still stuck in 3.5 meta that yoi and ayaka and magoo kinky are good and equipment bad

but I learned a lot and the game is pretty cool and diverse now

[pearl glade]

@thick charm shall we rematch?

[thick charm]

bin ban bomk and shenhe shenanigans nowithstanding

[pearl glade]

i completely forgot about it

[solar aspen]

Sameeee! My friend list is full again xD

[pearl glade]

oop nvm

[thick charm]

oh I'd be down for it, but I'm at work for 5 more hours

[pearl glade]

just got someone

[solar aspen]

They never announced a time compensation because of that, right?

[thick charm]

oh also monday so I need to do weeklies with my very own Noelle

gotta coordinate that

[dark saffron]

not that i ever saw

[dark lark]

Eyy I recognize you from Astra

[cursive gazelle]

probably because theres no compensation

[solar aspen]

F

[night token]

Same here along with other familiar users

[hybrid whale]

I feel less bad about not making knockouts seeing that many top players I know didn’t make it either

Level of competition is insane

[dark lark]

and thats game

left on 2 wins

[twilit steppe]

Yeah...

[night token]

I've seen a lot of users on the leader board that are just numbers

[lofty wind]

ye idk why it just shows their ID? arent they in the server?

[pearl glade]

ok im done with card games now

[fathom fog]

https://tenor.com/view/rip-coffin-black-ghana-celebrating-gif-16743302

[pearl glade]

my final score

it's been a pleasure playing with yall

[lofty wind]

ah you didnt get all your games in either i feel u

good playin with you tho

[pearl glade]

yeah i was speedrunning this morning

from 4am

now back to sleep

[dark lark]

WR calc

[lofty wind]

[pearl glade]

above 50% winrate gang

[solar aspen]

Congratulations 🎉

I was testing a deck with randoms and they conceded right after I beat their Raiden 😦

[night token]

As soon as someone defeats their Raiden early, they auto rage quit

The egg isn't even worth it due to inflation

[polar barn]

I also faced total 1 itto

Apparently most people don't play bin in prelims

Including me

[ancient spindle]

life must be good i see

[polar barn]

It was SC all over the place

And my mnec claps it

[ancient spindle]

i got BIN 5 times

[slow heart]

I don’t like where I ended up in top16

I might have to face SI for quarter final

[safe plaza]

You've got this Lieil

[slow heart]

Trust I will deny the Kevin SI ultimate showdown

[safe plaza]

[solar aspen]

Yeah 😦 not good to test stuff, I guess

[gaunt mica]

Still, grats on top 16!

I pass my torch to you

[pine heron]

Be happy with that, I'm facing kirano R1 i eu

[slow heart]

My condolences

[steep pendant]

Morning everyone. Tried (and failed) to talk in general chat

[solar aspen]

Morning!

[solar aspen]

Why failed?

[steep pendant]

Cause you know how some are, ignore if not in their clique lol

[solar aspen]

Btw, is the tournament over now? Are out ranks final by now? :3

[solar aspen]

Sad 😦

[steep pendant]

I think it's over.. I did bad and was just about to make a comeback ;w;

[solar aspen]

Sorry to read that! Was this your first tournament too?

[steep pendant]

Yep

[solar aspen]

It helped me a lot to refine my deck :3 thanks for playing with me outside the tournament too

[twilit steppe]

In my first tournament I only won 2 times out of 10 matches it's okay to not do great the first time

[steep pendant]

Np! Same to you

[pearl fern]

I believe usually there's a finalization phase where they will process incorrectly recorded games and what not

the leaderboards have changed after they closed previously

[pearl fern]

uh replying to this

so a few spots may still be subject to change/shuffled. But usually the top scorers are confirmed

[glad junco]

what is queue dodging?

[solar aspen]

thanks for the info!

[solar aspen]

ok :3

[fervent shard]

"BIN"?

[twilit steppe]

Barbara Itto Noelle

[fervent shard]

Why is that an acronym? Is that a popular team?

[rich wasp]

yes

[raven wyvern]

Binned 🚮

[frigid sundial]

🗑️

[pearl glade]

[rose depot]

Sussy Paimon
BOT
— Yesterday at 8:13 PM
We recently discovered that some players are exploiting the matchmaking system by practicing queue dodging. It is an unsportsmanlike behavior and should such practice continue, we will take actions against it, including banning the players from Tavern. In the future, we will also make improvement to the system to prevent queue dodging and players who try to do so could potentially end up not finding any available players.

👀

who dis

[ancient spindle]

well no more gicancel when meeting top players

[twilit steppe]

I'm not even a top player and I managed to get this once

[jaunty python]

wait, people do this?

I thought it was already behavior that gets you a warning

[twilit steppe]

Well I experienced it once so yeah some people apparently do this 💀

[pearl glade]

@slow mason how well did you do this tournament?

[slow mason]

Not a good patch for diona

Have like 11 loses or something

[pearl glade]

Not bad… pretty decent

24 wins im assuming

[solar aspen]

Might that be related to the bot not working properly?

[prime trail]

do you guys know if there's no chance to get the card back anymore after preliminaries are over ?

[slow mason]

Minus five because I didn't play the last games

Honestly this tavern was pain for playing as a dps diona main

[pearl glade]

i respect the dedication to your fav character

[pearl glade]

im sure there will be a next event

but with different card back

[deft trench]

i need them jsjsjs

[slow mason]

I'm not sure about that

I don't think they'll be making a different card back for every cat's tail

We already had the previous cat's tail give this card back

[rose depot]

they better not make a new one for each princes cup top 8 LOL

[pearl glade]

if they could give out the card back design for the tournament i missed out on that would be great

[slow mason]

What tournament?

[pearl glade]

not sure but i think it was the treasure chest card back

[slow mason]

If it's the prince cup one then you're still going to have to be good enough to get to top 8 if it's the previous cat's tail then it's the same one of right now

[slow mason]

That came with an event I think

I believe you can buy it for the coins the treasure horders drop

[pearl glade]

o

[prime trail]

oh I didn't know the same card back was given before

that actually makes me feel a lot better ty

[pearl glade]

wait so the card backs for the tournment was given for the first time?

for this event?

[pearl glade]

dont trust me

i may not know what im talking about

[twilit steppe]

Yeah I think it's the same purple Dragonspine card back..

[prime trail]

lol that's a mood

[slow mason]

The card back for tournaments are the purple one and the golden one, those have stayed as the reward for all tournaments that have card back rewards

Purple is easier to get and golden is for top 8 in prince cup

[prime trail]

thank you leoric

[pearl glade]

thank you leoric

[twilit steppe]

Oh yeah it's purple and not silver my bad thanks for the correction

[solemn thunder]

how does the knockout work?

[thick charm]

not at all, it wasn't given in the event. It just kinda sorta showed up

and now it's actually added for you to obtain

[arctic valve]

3 decks, you ban one, your opponent ban 1, Bo3

[solemn thunder]

yeah ik

but how is the ranking determined?

[rich wasp]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1050607016588099684/1135432633506074676/image.png

[slow mason]

I just meant that the card back was added to the store because of the events storyline

[neon bison]

If anyone needs some practice playing against a specific deck tonight, feel free to ping me

[pearl glade]

That’s hella gas. I know I would ban shen sc right off the bat.

[pearl glade]

Pog

[pearl fern]

Ctg kos so far isn't a ban format

Hopefully that changes though

[crystal tapir]

do you have as?

[neon bison]

Sorry what deck is as?

[crystal tapir]

asia

[hybrid whale]

I can also be a sandbag for any top 16 players who want practice

[neon bison]

Oh I don't have any other account other than NA

[crystal tapir]

[neon bison]

But just curious why you need as account for practicing?

[pearl fern]

I think they assumed you are an invader from AS

Heh

[pearl glade]

Yeah I thought nyahida had NA account

[pearl fern]

Though why that matters i have no idea

[thorny oyster]

do you have cn account

:clueless:

[pearl glade]

Blep how well did you do this tournament?

[crystal tapir]

na account no coin for 4.0 cards despairge

[thorny oyster]

4.0 cards :kopium:

[crystal tapir]

claire play?

[pearl glade]

Ah

[thorny oyster]

biology class rn

[neon bison]

I heard lots of CN players played in this tourney if that's what you were referring to

[pearl fern]

I stopped at 15 due to time but 8-7

[pearl fern]

Haha yes - you look also like a CN player

[vivid monolith]

How many players on Top 16 leaderboard are actually living in NA

[neon bison]

but CN server and Asia servers are different ones

[pearl fern]

O i didn't know that

[rich wasp]

10/11 i think

still a majority

maybe

[vivid monolith]

I only know Si and Kaori are in NA

Who else

[rich wasp]

most of the fdj people are

id imagine

[vivid monolith]

Just two fdj on lb

[cursive gazelle]

even if they live in NA.. still might be asian

[rich wasp]

oh well yes

if you arent counting NAsians

this lb has basically nobody xd

[cursive gazelle]

[pearl fern]

I still laugh when i remember seeing NA PC

[cursive gazelle]

thought i tuned into the wrong channel

[vivid monolith]

It’s funny most players on NA lb actually live on the other side of the earth

[neon bison]

how many?

[rich wasp]

1st is eu, 2nd na, 3rd cn, 4th eu, 5th na, 6th cn, 7th i forgot, 8th na (?), 9th na, 10th absolutely no clue, 11-13th NA, 14th cn (?), 15th jp (?), 16th na

so maybe only 8

[pearl fern]

Honestly I'm an advocate of disallowing queueing into multiple CTG regions

[neon bison]

I queued into 10th twice and got beaten both times. This guy doesn't speak a word during matches

[pearl fern]

It's not turning out great

[rich wasp]

i got 1 game against 10th and queued the harder counter

for AS

[pearl fern]

I know it's nice for the top players

[pearl fern]

But i really don't want to watch ctg series where 3 regions have like the same ppl

[hybrid whale]

Agree wholeheartedly

[vivid monolith]

Agree wholeheartedly

[cursive gazelle]

has NA successfully invaded other regions

[rich wasp]

CN, ?, EU, AS, CN (?), SEA, JP, JP, JP, ?, KR, SEA, SEA, ?, TW (?), NA

[arctic valve]

x3

[rich wasp]

its just me invading from na

[cursive gazelle]

[arctic valve]

youre a space invader

[pearl glade]

I feel like there would no point to banning tho. It’s too easy to play on another genshin account.

[neon bison]

5 games a day is a lot for me. I can't imagine how someone can manage 15

[rich wasp]

the guy who is 3rd on AS, 3rd on EU, and 1st on NA queued 105 games on BIN

[pearl fern]

Most top players would risk DQ if it was in the rules

[rich wasp]

how

[long ledge]

Can you advocate it later, I plan on invading na in the next ctg

[rich wasp]

if you play aggro for 105 games its more understandable

[pearl fern]

I mean invade is fine but you would need to stick to one region

[pearl glade]

I want to reverse uno

Invade cn server

[rich wasp]

ive heard horror stories

of cn server tourneys

too hard

also just a pain to try to compete in the first place

[arctic valve]

wanna hear them uncle SI

[neon bison]

It's not possible. I think they check your ID when you register

[rich wasp]

good players here that have participated in cn tourneys have failed to get past the first round

[pearl glade]

Oh shoot

[pearl fern]

I mean once there is some density of pro players even the top pros would have like a 60% wr against other opponents so it's exponentially harder to make single elim stuff

[vivid monolith]

Yes That person is me

[pearl glade]

Yeah I forget how different asian gaming culture can be. I remember having to pull out my social security number just to play video games.

[vivid monolith]

[rich wasp]

xd

[long ledge]

It's only because Kevin didn't join

[vivid monolith]

Emmmm

Let Kevin go

[rich wasp]

true kevin could win the 40k easy

[vivid monolith]

You would know

[neon bison]

They do the same when you win a jackpot in the US

I guess it's similar everywhere when the prize becomes huge

for tax reasons etc

[pearl fern]

Just swap stall the feds

Ez game

[pearl glade]

Feds owned.

And dabbed on.

[pearl fern]

Me moving my prize money electronically between a swiss and cayman islands bank account and they flying back and forth trying to chase it

[long ledge]

[pearl glade]

[solar aspen]

wait, so each card back given so far is different? I thought it was always the same one

[solar aspen]

ok, thanks, I should read the whole of it before replying xD

[pearl glade]

Read a bit down , i did not know what i was talking about.

[pearl glade]

Oop-

You and me friend

[solar aspen]

I would ban BIN right away xD

[arctic valve]

It depends on wich decks youre playing, if you have a counter for bin, it would be better to ban shenhe sc

[pearl glade]

I agree, bin has more viable counters than shenhe sc

Shenhe sc players tend to have more cards up their sleeves too (no pun intended)

[solar aspen]

hahaha

[brisk wolf]

are you free rn?

[solar aspen]

I feel like it's easier to deal with high damage but vulnerable than focused on damage mitigation. It might be just my lack of experience and preferible playstyle, tho

[neon bison]

How about 20 mins later?

[brisk wolf]

ehhh ill be at sleep then or finishing my homework before midnight so is it okay if i pester you again tomorrow?

[arctic valve]

well it depends how high is that dmg

[night token]

Welp

Better luck next time

[neon bison]

Sure!

[solemn thunder]

wait actually the faqs say that there's no rule for banning characters

[rich wasp]

yes its blind

blind pick but no repeats so the only info you get is what they already queued

it also means you can prepare > 3 decks to have something to queue based on what the opponent has left

[pearl glade]

50% win rate gang 💪

[night token]

Spoilers: some of the decks that I used are a mix of meta and non-meta

I almost wanted to use BIN, but I decided against it knowing the abundance of Shenhe ec players

[pearl glade]

holy crap

im starting to realise how stupid i was

i shouldve had xiao card or added one more send off card in my deck

to counter shenhe sc

😭

[rugged bluff]

2 send offs should be more than enough !

nobody really uses the lament card 😔

[pearl glade]

i was thinking lament card cus

it can destroy three usage summons

actually lemme double check

[solar aspen]

Anyone down for some friendly matches? I can play three rounds ^^ wanna test a deck

[pearl glade]

im down

in 20 min

[solar aspen]

Yay! Let me know once you're ready 🙂

[pearl glade]

im ready now

i will dm you my uid

[solar aspen]

Ok! :3

[pearl glade]

dm'd

[livid remnant]

Does anybody know who's rank 7 in NA board

1144505512143097967 I don't know what this number string refers to

[livid remnant]

Something goes wrong with this board

[subtle ibex]

that would be @granite condor

[rich wasp]

AS invader pe

[ancient spindle]

hmm Creamlet

kinda sus

zzzz

[pearl fern]

Creamlet LMAO

[solar aspen]

Dumb question but, how do I use charged attack with Tighnari? xD

[cursive gazelle]

normal attack when you are on even dice = charge attack

[solar aspen]

Mind-blowing

I wasn't able to find a description about it reading the card xD thanks for the help

[cursive gazelle]

the charge attack text should ve underlined

so if you click the underlined text, it will show you the description

[rugged bluff]

anyone wanna play a game or two of tcg

[pearl glade]

Me

[rugged bluff]

ok! just gimme a bit

[pearl glade]

Ok

I will dm you uid

Ping me when rdy

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-gif-23395435

[rich wasp]

[rugged bluff]

[night token]

https://tenor.com/view/frog-loop-frog-loop-viynl-frog-viynl-gif-18152140

[pearl glade]

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-waiting-patiently-waiting-for-you-waiting-on-you-gif-15489516379864441176

[arctic valve]

https://tenor.com/view/me-waiting-for-my-friends-to-get-online-gif-25825491

[night token]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-dance-dancing-baile-pez-gif-8045331

[autumn scarab]

What. Did you do. To my frog.

[night token]

Uhhh

Not turning it into potions?

https://tenor.com/view/chuckles-im-in-danger-ralph-simpson-meme-gif-16042439

[rugged bluff]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/772214122338189357/1104625907391533086/ezgif-5-3e59042b6f.gif

[rugged bluff]

any na queue'rs? 😭

[rich wasp]

it’s 5/8 am who would be awake from NA

[rugged bluff]

true.

actually got a match

[arctic valve]

i was awake, but i'm at work

[thick charm]

Btw @pearl glade sorry for no show yesterday but I ended up having things going.
Got to spend a while with my sibling (rare), and then my Noelle came back from work later than usual (my country changed the timezone for no reason bcs daylight savings and I messed up the timezone) and then I was giga sleepy and had to wake up early tomorrow (today)

I still need to do Señora and Raiden with my Noelle but it's more likely I can play today

[solar aspen]

Haha, señora :3

[crystal tapir]

Any pros online help beat me up?

[mossy imp]

Anyone know if welkins for S3 were given away? I didn't see an announcement anywhere and it's been a while but I might have just missed it

[pearl glade]

They were

Convex hull reported he received one

[mossy imp]

That's too bad then

Weird they didn't announce it though

[pearl glade]

Nah i think it was the right move

Knowing me

I would’ve felt the salt and cope

[mossy imp]

Lol fair enough, thanks for letting me know

[pearl glade]

Np!

[twilit steppe]

Yeah I got it in my side Asia account

[pearl glade]

I freaking love that kirby emoji

[twilit steppe]

Me too

[pearl glade]

This is what i have

[twilit steppe]

Oh I wish I could use that without Nitro haha

[thick charm]

ta dah

save as

[brisk wolf]

bet

tcg me

[thick charm]

@pearl glade you around? My Noelle gets off work pretty late so I can just do Dvalin to empty a bit of resin and play TCG after

[frigid sundial]

[pearl glade]

I will be free this evening

[thick charm]

alright, will be playing feh in the meantime

[pearl glade]

Yo congrats on clearing prelim

[frigid sundial]

thanks im glad speedrun worked somehow

[twilit steppe]

Thank you

[twilit steppe]

Why does this one doesn't have transparency

[brisk wolf]

discord light mode

can someone help me practice agaisnt shenhe SC and/or mona fischl nahida?

[slow mason]

Is it possible to get the giveaway welkin and the top 16 welkin from the same season of cat's tail?

[solemn thunder]

i'm down

lmk when you're ready

[brisk wolf]

ayyyy

im free rn, 660049303

let me get out of serenitea pot first

out of teapot

[pearl glade]

@thick charm im available now. ping me any time when youre free

[thick charm]

bet, gonna log in real quick

[pearl glade]

sheesh les goooo

[thick charm]

my Noelle might be home soon though so I'll play a deck that isn't

uh

Millelith

[pearl glade]

noelle like genshin noelle?

[thick charm]

turns out I was destined to main her

[pearl glade]

noelle was my first banner charcter

[thick charm]

because my partner has the same name

[pearl glade]

ahh

omg shenhe superconduct

ptsd

it has been settked @thick charm is the better player

[thick charm]

hey it was a single match that certainly settles nothing :)

[pearl glade]

rematch??

[thick charm]

for sure, got time

[pearl glade]

okay i can do 1 more

[thick charm]

ggs~

[pearl glade]

gg

evened up the score

😼

[thick charm]

I'm a certified idiot actually I had Bennett's constellation from the previous burst and I just straight up forgot to use it >_>

[pearl glade]

yeah haha... totally not me either

i mean-

what

[thick charm]

[pearl glade]

[thick charm]

That deck could use some serious improvement

was meant to make diluc go brr but BOY it's full of outdated card choices

[pearl glade]

i used to hate that deck

but theyre arent so bad anymore

after totm

@thick charm i think you overextended a bit in round 1

killing a character in round 1 is nice but it usually takes up too much resources

and trump/trick cards

[thick charm]

I actually got giga lucky with the dice

so all in all I just had to spend Fervent Flames

maybe I should've kept the Woven Flames and Strategized later though

[pearl glade]

yeah

[thick charm]

so, how do you build an Ayaka deck nowadays. Friend is new to tcg and loves her but I guess you can't just run old tricks on a new dog

[pearl fern]

She still works in freeze more or less

Good way to use plunge attack

[thick charm]

cryo plunge let's go

[pearl fern]

Aya xq shenhe pretty typical i think

Also see ganyu as an alt carry

[thick charm]

Thankies

[rich wasp]

ayaka yoi shenhe

or ayaka yae shenhe which is just a shenhe sc variant

[twilit steppe]

I tried using this recently and it's kind of fun.. somehow I've only lost once to Sara Mona Venti

[night token]

I like to try more Ayaka decks

I'm used to freeze decks since they can be threatening

Poor Chongyun couldn't use his ult after he was frozen and was the last one standing

[twilit steppe]

Oh yeah I sometimes try Shenhe Ayaka Xingqiu but I can't use it properly sadly

[ancient spindle]

Ayaka sucks

Shenhe sucks 2

[pearl glade]

Yeah ngl she kinda does

[ancient spindle]

[pearl glade]

Oh nvm you meant ironically

[ancient spindle]

No she sucks

Only Lisa is goodge

[pearl glade]

What how

[pearl glade]

[ancient spindle]

[night token]

https://tenor.com/view/lisa-gif-genshin-impact-genshin-impact-lisa-gif-25189435

[pine heron]

She was good, but now she is eggless so mid now

[ancient spindle]

Lisa eggs is 🗑️

it cost me a Major

bruh eggs brick

painful

[ocean gulch]

Lisa eggs

[ancient spindle]

The sauce sounds delicious right
But taste so bad

[solemn thunder]

what was that discussion

lisa eggs

[ancient spindle]

[pearl glade]

i do not understand

what lisa eggs

[ancient spindle]

you hide the letter a

[pearl glade]

genius!

so you let lisa act as a tank and build up conduction basically?

[worn vine]

were there any pings back in the 4th when s4 started?

i didnt get any

the 2nd was the last time i recieved a ping

[twilit steppe]

I don't get ping either, I found out there is new CTG because I saw the registration channel and also saw the Indonesian discussion being made

[pearl glade]

[tropic slate]

knockout brackets are out

wtf happened to the leaderboard and why didnt i get a strike

someone went missing

[prime scroll]

why should you have gotten one :yaethunk:

[tropic slate]

bc the rules say so but apparently they reneged on that

well now i feel like an asshole for complaining about it for so long

[prime scroll]

on what

[tropic slate]

Q9. I conceded a match. What are the consequences?
A9. At the end of the Preliminary Phase, you will receive a Strike for each match you concede. If you even try to go further as to not reflect the result correctly and use /gicancel, you will be banned. Keep in mind that receiving 3 Strikes means you're banned from the tournament.

apparently this is false

[prime scroll]

conceding is fine, it registers as a loss for you
until we've got replays though screenshots of the last action were the only reliable information of the match
so conceding was frowned upon

[tropic slate]

so they just never updated the faq to specify that it is not, in fact, a strike then?

[prime scroll]

could be
and since screenshots are not required anymore people just don't report it

[slow mason]

I've seen a few people forfeit matches but I've never reported it I just told them that it was against the rules and to avoid doing it again

[pearl fern]

It's prob one of those things that are in the rules only to prevent abuse

But if it's just a normal early concession it prob isn't reported or reviewed

I had that happen in one game and it was whatever

[autumn scarab]

My take is that the FAQ didn't get updated since S1 times where you had to send a screenshot, which was impossible in case your opponent concedes.

[slow heart]

Got a question for this Q&A: There is no clarification on what happen to the person that didn't bring the wrong deck

[versed kelp]

They’ll win the round…

[slow heart]

So say match one you queue bin and opponent queue shenhe sc and u won
match two you also queue bin and opponent queue agent ec (u lose the math)
match three you queue shenhe sc and they can't queue shenhe sc or agent ec?

[slow heart]

so they win the round not the match

since there is 3 match total

[versed kelp]

Correct ignore that.

[slow heart]

Thank you
Please change the describtion in the faq

Using "knockout Round" and "match" can be confusing

[versed kelp]

Oh

Match

Yeah it is

Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

[slow heart]

I got screw over by this in one of the alpha ctg before so I know

[versed kelp]

I suffered trauma from a crushing defeat at the hands of @safe plaza, so I never played again.

[naive socket]

What happens if both players use same characters

round one bin vs shenhe sc, round two bin vs shenhe sc again

[pearl fern]

I don't think you can repeat the same deck twice?

or you mean by accident

if both players accidentally repeat it's just a wash - no information was given

so you just try again

[slow heart]

So u get a list of only u queue the same deck but nothing happen when both player queue the same deck

[pearl fern]

Well yeah it's only a loss if one player does it because they gave away their deck

[solemn thunder]

how is the second place determined in knockout?

i don't get how it's possible to rank 16 players based on 16 matches

[versed kelp]

They lose to first…

It’s knock out… 16 > 8 > 4 > 2 > 1

[solemn thunder]

theres 4 players who lose to first though

[versed kelp]

They aren’t 1st at that point…

It’s only when it’s the final two, 1st is the winner, 2nd is the one who lost.

[solemn thunder]

oh i see

wait that sounds kinda weird

[pearl fern]

It's single elimination

[solemn thunder]

how do we know the player who last lost to first place is better than the other 3 players who lost to first place

[night token]

They have to stream?

[solemn thunder]

like, they all lost to first place so the ranking among them is kinda arbitrary and depends on luck?

[pearl fern]

Have you not played a single elimination format before?

[versed kelp]

The one who lost would have had to win 3 other matches to face them, where the others won less.

[pearl fern]

It's been around for a long time

There's no ranking between tiers, like 5th-8th are one set

[versed kelp]

^Example^

[solemn thunder]

let players ABCD have actual performance of A > B > C > D (so if B and C play a game, B would win).
suppose the first round is (A vs B) and (C vs D), then A and C would win, so the second round is A vs C in which A wins
so this tournament gives ranking of ACBD

now lets change the first round to be (A vs C) and (B vs D), then the tournament gives ranking of ABCD which is different from the outcome of (A vs B) and (C vs D), even though the actual performance is A > B > C > D in both cases

so the outcome depends on how players are matched

not a good sorting algorithm

[rugged bluff]

sorry if i'm not getting this right but isn't it always A vs D and B vs C tho?

like 1st vs 16th, 2nd vs 15th and so on

[solemn thunder]

but the ranking of preliminary is also arbitrary because players don't play againt all other players

[rugged bluff]

ah yea i understand

do you think a double elimination would solve this issue?

[ancient spindle]

Its not swiss format but single elimination format

[night token]

I don't think ranking matters

[ancient spindle]

ranking matter a bit imo

[night token]

I think the match ups are most likely random for the top 16

[versed kelp]

The initial slot placement is randomized actually Seeding. So there is a essence of luck right of the start who you might get paired with, but there’s also the sheer randomness of card draws in any card game.

[ancient spindle]

no its not random

wait

its random ?

[rugged bluff]

it's not random iirc, your matchups are based off seedings

[ancient spindle]

yeah its not random

[night token]

So rank #16 might duel against #6 (for example)

[ancient spindle]

no

[rugged bluff]

no, 16th placer will always play vs 1st placer for the round of 16 match

[ancient spindle]

its been paired alr. you can see in #1071009830044704878

[rugged bluff]

yup

[night token]

It still looks random to me

[onyx bison]

first rounds are based on seeding

[pearl fern]

what it sounds like you're trying to do is actually rank players accurately to their skill level

This is NOT the goal of a tournament

I think that's maybe where you're confusing yourself

competitions like this don't need to accurately determine the best player in a group of 16

[solemn thunder]

this brings an interesting question: what's the optimal way to rank players accurately with the minimum number of rounds

[pearl fern]

yes the top 16 rankings are somewhat arbitrary, so the pairings are too and will affect the results

but thta's just all by design

[night token]

That's what I thought when I interpreted what FDJ said

[pearl fern]

I dunno, go find another esport that has answered that question and come back

or any sport

[naive socket]

the leaderboard is some kind of ranking

[pearl fern]

most people will look to a lifetime set of achievements, so results over time

[night token]

But honestly, the skill level doesn't matter in this game

[pearl glade]

I think it does

[night token]

I think it's most likely who wins a lot of matches based on luck, skill, and cards

Someone can have the best skill, but still can be unlucky when it comes to cards and dice, and end up losing

[pearl fern]

that's not the same thing as skill level not mattering. We have enough consistent players as examples that proves there's a definite skill gap between the very very top and the next band

[versed kelp]

Getting a good hand (Luck) ≠ Using a good hand effectively (Skill)

[pearl fern]

obv two players of exactly equal skill levels comes down to other factors, but that's true of anything

[night token]

Sorry, I meant to say skill ranking, not skill level

[pearl fern]

ah right

I mean you can still rank them, but it comes down to consistent performance across several tournaments

SI is undoubtedly the best player in the NA region based on results

exact position rankings is harder, but you usually have clusters of players

but being best doesn't mean you get to win every tournament

[pearl glade]

True

[safe plaza]

[versed kelp]

Look at this BooLIA!

No remorse

[safe plaza]

Nooooo

[versed kelp]

Lia right now be like:

https://tenor.com/view/new-girl-zooey-deschanel-uncomfortable-awkard-what-is-going-on-gif-5250300

[safe plaza]

I'm innocent

I swear

[versed kelp]

https://tenor.com/view/lie-lies-liar-simpsons-grandpa-gif-13421820

[cursive viper]

dont you post how you bully people?

[versed kelp]

See

[safe plaza]

Who is this strange man

[versed kelp]

Undeniable proof

[safe plaza]

Binzu isn't it bed time for you

[cursive viper]

i woke up 4h ago

[safe plaza]

Oh

...

I just woke up too

[versed kelp]

I think I woke up around the same time as binzu

Tbf I never remember when I sleep

Cuz it either rarely happens or it’s too short…

[safe plaza]

I took a very long nap when I got home from work

A 6 hour nap

[pearl glade]

How long do you have to nap until its not a nap anymore?

[safe plaza]

Uh probably that much

[versed kelp]

4hrs.

That’s why sleeping is just two naps.

[solar aspen]

A hero

Good luck to everyone who made it to the brackets ^^

[livid remnant]

Redeem Code

[solar aspen]

Omg, can't wait for Dehya card ^^

[versed kelp]

Mood

[rotund lichen]

do i have to do anything to pick up my cardback

[slow mason]

yes

wait

[pine heron]

F forgot again to redeem them

[ancient spindle]

[mint juniper]

Sameeeeee
Remembered 10 mins after expiration 😔

Didn't even know the stream was yesterday until it was over
Have no idea how I completely missed the prior announcements 🇫

[wary heron]

forgot what?

...oh no my 300 primogems

[placid basin]

When do we get the card back for the tourney?

[slow mason]

October

[lucid sable]

I am on all forms of copium

:3 20 dmg plunging attack

[night token]

That amount of damage would probably kill a Zhongli and an Itto really fast

But poor Benny!

😭

[rugged bluff]

how..

oh mona burst

[shut kraken]

[pearl glade]

yeah i think i just had one of these interactions

people were complaining about how jean's burst is really awful and i said it's pretty good

then i someone said im baiting them like what

i dont mind people disagreeing but idk chat feels kinda dismissive ngl

[ancient spindle]

Its awful bc of send off

6 Heal value for 4 dice 3 energy and trade 2 opponent's dice is kinda bad ngl

[slow mason]

not trying to be rude but I think we can objectively say jean burst is bad

[pearl glade]

6 heal value (plus two if it hits) but it can also attack (which can also swirl). although i agree send off is a big flaw.

[ancient spindle]

Yeah i cant deny her burst is good but send off value here is too goodge against her

[pearl glade]

trueee

[night token]

I barely play Jean

I feel like her elemental skill is more valuable than her burst

And if they were to buff Jean, it would be nice to have +3 usages instead of +2 usages

[pearl glade]

Her burst synergises with her e

When you use the talent card

So if you have a weapon it can do 5 damage + swirl with 1 e

[night token]

If I choose Jean to be my anemo bruiser maybe the talent card might be worth it

[crystal tapir]

theres a reason why all the good players dont discuss actual meta there xD

[twilit steppe]

I personally think Jean burst is bad in most cases but once I got defeated because Mona's summon, Sucrose's summon, and Jean's burst so yeah in specific cases it's good I think

[livid remnant]

Before considering the effect of Jean's burst, her burst can be hardly opened in lotsof matchups

Her nationality of being a Monds resident won't benefit her anymore after 4.2 update

So from a pvp perspective, she's one of the worst chars right now

[rich wasp]

nahida doing dmg on burst cast and jean not doing dmg

[steep pendant]

Hi, it's been a while since I've been here. If anyone wants to practice, I've worked a lot and am up for it

[rose perch]

does anyone know if you still do damage with adeptus if the burst does no damage?

[pearl glade]

it will not do damage

i tried it on jean as an example

[rose perch]

i see so barbara burst doesnt work either.

[mint juniper]

Wait, why?

[dusty nymph]

Everyone has access to mond res effect

And mond res might also be changed since this card does the exact same thing

[night token]

Is that a fan made card?

Oh wait no nvm

[dusty nymph]

No, official, new action cards are already posted

Yea

[night token]

I love how they copy and paste the description of Wind and Freedom and turn it into an Arcane card for everyone to use

[thorny oyster]

ig its not that bad

since it prevents the double mond res sweep

but the fact that everyone has access tho

:despairge

[ancient spindle]

Yeah mond res is so OP they nerf it to Arcane

Wait is this also BIN small nerf

[mint juniper]

ohhhh, got it, thanks
that's kinda wild

[thick charm]

not just that, just go call it fresh and it's indeed a fresh card

tbf it's only one, so you can't like, one-turn sweep your opponent. But just one Wind and Freedom can be hella destructive and this one has no dice cost and is also guaranteed on your opening hand…

[night token]

I can imagine someone using BIN and have 2 copies of Wind & Freedom plus that arcane card

[thick charm]

I mean, I guess it affords consistency?

big overlap, and you only ever need the effect twice, but I guess you can just tune fodder one of them if you happen to draw both?

[pearl glade]

i might need that many if im dealing with qiqi deck 😹

[twilit steppe]

You use BIN too now?

[steep pendant]

Y'all went to the dark side

[frigid sundial]

[pearl glade]

no lol bin make my head hurty

but i faced against a qiqi deck that spammed stall, revive, heal

3 copies of wind & freedom might actually be the trick to killing that sort of deck

[twilit steppe]

Does this deck use Qiqi Diona Kokomi or Qiqi Zhongli Noelle? I faced those yesterday haha

[twilit steppe]

Me too

[stiff crypt]

I agree, I even rarely use Jean's burst, I keep using elemental skill even though Jean's energy is full

[pearl glade]

Qiqi zhong noelle

[twilit steppe]

Oh I wonder if this is the same as what you faced haha..

[pearl glade]

Yeah thats him

[night token]

It's our favorite himbo!

[pearl fern]

Some BIN decks just run one W&F since you can draw a lot of your deck and you only ever want 1 copy near the end of the game

More copies doesn't really make it better

Honestly BIN would prefer to run covenant or courtyard as value cards and rely on dice advantage to combo rather than mond res arcane i think

[twilit steppe]

Yeah I agree personally, the surprise Covenant of Rock for Itto charged attack can be gamechanging at times haha

[stiff crypt]

Noob?

Sus

[polar barn]

It's a sign

Ryssa want's to join sus

[twilit steppe]

I am indeed noob in some decks

[twilit steppe]

Is there any benefit of joining SUS?

[night token]

Now BIN decks can't use W&F

[rose perch]

the free swap might actually be better. you can protect itto

[night token]

What if Noelle and Barbruh are dead?

[pearl glade]

This is good

Wind and freedom being arcane card means bin will either have to choose that or covenant

You cant have both as it was in previous version

[polar barn]

Bin dosent need monds res

It was just an additional thing

But yeah it will effect in someway

[outer silo]

So is there any difference at all between mond res and when the crane returned? After reading both cards, they seem to both literally do the exact same thing

[polar barn]

Try it out

[arctic valve]

mond res is unlimited crane returned for 1 turn

[thick charm]

Did you know you can win an exclusive in-game cardback by winning 4 matches in Cat's Tail Gathering Season 4?
wasn't it 3

[wary heron]

[polar barn]

[safe plaza]

Yes...

[frozen pike]

this is a typo, winning 3 rounds is the condition for card back, not 4. It has been fixed! Sorry for the confoosion

[pearl glade]

@livid remnant @crystal tapir what did you guys get for tcg stats?

[livid remnant]

gimme a link

[pearl glade]

oki

@livid remnant https://hoyo.link/6SWeFCAL?m_code=GADLDP069N&pk=1&utm_source=game&utm_medium=html&utm_campaign=pkshare

[pearl glade]

that is very impressive

[pearl fern]

yes I uh definitely play TCG surely how can you tell

[night token]

Some of those losses are probably from me playing Itto's amazing shitty deck as attempts to try to win w/ it

[twilit steppe]

LOL the Itto Chongyun Razor one?

[night token]

Yeah!

😂

(I'm not even kidding)

[pearl glade]

@rich wasp i have a question. so say mirror match of of mona wanderer eula happens. if the opponent starts first should you just try to ramp up instead of attacking with mona in first round?

[rich wasp]

imo if you go second you have to try to go off r1

so prepare to go mona -> wanderer r1 and dont do ramp stuff

liu basically required

or vanarana

floating 1 is toug

[pearl glade]

i see

that makes sense

[rich wasp]

gg btw

[pearl glade]

gg i honestly dice and card cringed entire game

[rich wasp]

yeah

[night token]

https://tenor.com/view/frog-hop-hopping-hops-swarm-gif-14788848

[pearl glade]

ribbit

[night token]

I wish I can add frogs to my teapot as a way to bless Oceanid to summon more frogs often in TCG

But sadly, they might eat my lucklight flies and my cats might hunt them

[thick charm]

wait but you can add frogs right

if you pokéball them first

anyway I have literal casul tier rookie numbers compared to y'all here

66.666% winrate against actual players

cursed

[safe plaza]

Wow nice winrate

[safe plaza]

I really like ancient courtyard

[pearl fern]

when it's good it's better but I think covenant is more consistent

[night token]

Covenant for better for Itto to go caveman & play whack-a-mole

https://tenor.com/view/family-guy-chris-griffin-hammer-hammering-gif-17606487

[pearl glade]

Were you the player with beidou pfp?

[night token]

No, that was not me

[polar barn]

[thick charm]

average bin player (me)

[pearl glade]

@rich wasp do you have any thoughts on how to counter shenhe wanderer 2anemo as mona eula wanderer?

I’m starting feel like shen2anemo might be a hard counter.

[rich wasp]

ngl that matchup felt really easy the few times i played it

maybe positioning needs to change to do better into enemy wanderer/sucrose? idk

[pearl glade]

hmm i see

would love to see a video if there's any

i should be the one uploading a vid ideally but im stuck on mobile

[night token]

I've encounter so many Wanderer players

The fact that he can attack a non-standby character makes me more cautious

It's like he's giving the middle finger to them

[thick charm]

hello guys

asking for a friend

does this look playable

[pearl glade]

@rich wasp im really enjoying the matches but you dont mind me matching more do you? 😅

[pearl glade]

is the minty meat roll for scara?

if so i dont think it's practical

cus you have to E for every two normal attacks

[thick charm]

oh shoot she actually changed her deck a fair bit already we played a lot this weekend. I'll have to get another screenshot from her and probably ask in #🎴genius-invokation-tcg proper since it's kinda dead here now

[ancient spindle]

[pearl glade]

you could ping me if youd like.

[thick charm]

will do, once I get a screenie

[solar aspen]

Anyone knows if the Dragonspine back card will be arriving soon? :3

[ancient spindle]

soon tm

[placid basin]

Hey when in October do we get the card backs 👀

[thick charm]

Soon™

[slow mason]

it's in ||October||

[pine heron]

[rotund lichen]

where is it though also what about the 20 primos or whatever from my measly number of wins

[night token]

I forgot what day on October

[violet dome]

This is absolutely cursed,unholy,mandatory grass touching,and wtf?

[pearl glade]

Wtf

I think you got the highest number of matches and win rate

Honestly flex

[stiff crypt]

Wow! Too strong

[night token]

Your mastery in TCG really rivals the top TCG player!

[rose depot]

when's the next cats tail 😮

[polar barn]

Let's be real

Winrate is cope metric

[wary heron]

[shut kraken]

[thick charm]

[pearl glade]

[dusty nymph]

[frigid sundial]

[night token]

[sullen walrus]

[pearl glade]

is like there like a list of who won the cat's tail tournament?

i see the thread but there aren't like names showing

[night token]

There's the medal icons?

Btw, if there's gonna be another tournament in the future, I pray players aren't gonna do something dirty again just b/c it's not explicitly stated in the rules

[pearl glade]

Dirty stuff like what

[night token]

@pearl glade remember the queue dodging incident?

[pearl glade]

ah yes

but we never figured out if it was intentional

[night token]

It's still bad sportsmanship regardless

[twilit steppe]

Well I know one person doing this and it's very much intentional

[strange peak]

What's this queue dodge?

[strange peak]

I knew some people who intentionally dc when a match is going south and simply try to convince people to restart or just cancel the match

imho, dc should be considered as a loss since you shouldn't be playing at times or places with bad connection

Of course... it might happen sometimes, but some people reported same people doing this over and over

More than twice should be considered as abuse and granted a strike for each time beyond that

[twilit steppe]

Cancelling a match when you meet someone you don't want to get matched. This happened to me once.. but after some pressuring I talked this person out of cancelling & we ended up playing. But this person didn't confirm the result. I had a feeling this person deliberately didn't confirm lol sorry
I contacted the mods and they gave me the win LOL so all of that dramatics didn't work out for this person

If I am not mistaken there is someone who got disqualified in Asia because this person queue dodge waaay too much

[night token]

The Asia server is extremely competitive compared to the rest of the servers

Has there been incidents where ppl have multiple accounts just to compete in different servers?

[muted cairn]

Playing in multiple servers is legal tho. Players asked mod about it and last season in fact multiple ppl did that. That said they are all really good players or else imagine playing 70 or 105 games a week and not qualify in any of the region in the leaderboard

Multiple accs in same region tho...

That is illegal

[twilit steppe]

Yeah this..

[prime scroll]

I feel like it's still shady and can be changed at any moment coz you need not only different genshin accounts but discord accounts as well
mods just said there's no way for them to check and enforce it :morapls:

[twilit steppe]

Ah yeah you do have point.. 🤔

[deft trench]

It happen to me, but i was who dont confirm the result, because when we finish the match i go to take a class and forgot to confirm my lost xD when i notice i go with who i play to, and confirm it jajaja i panic for a moment

[twilit steppe]

Oh haha... as for you, you forgot to confirm because you need to go to class which is understandable, as for one of my opponent I feel like this person just can't accept the loss🙊

[strange peak]

Remember the 1st tournament where the bot would announce both players and they had 10 secs to accept (or decline when the other was on top 16)? Crazy days...

[twilit steppe]

LOL yeah I would never forget that hahaha

[thorny oyster]

pretty sure in cats rail gathering s3 pleliminary, a guy called kirano got top 3 on all region

with 3 different accounts

lost on knockouts tho 😔

[polar barn]

They did this season as well

Won in NA but didn't qualify in asia

[night token]

I can see why

[rare sentinel]

When do we get rewards

[polar barn]

Soon

[thick charm]

pog season 5 before card sleeve

[safe plaza]

to play or not to play

that is the question

@versed kelp should i play

[thick charm]

honestly I registered to the previous season just because of the card sleeve but I had fun so imma jump in again

[safe plaza]

HOLY CRAP

CONCERT TICKET RAFFLE

[blissful oracle]

Now with a victory you win the back, bad they lowered the requirement

[flint mauve]

Hey I have a question- What if I can’t use PayPal because I’m a minor, if a minor theoretically won? I also am still confused about the rules, and idk if there’s an official compilation of them or?

[flint mauve]

I read all the FAQ, I think I’m good now on the rules except the PayPal one

[rugged bluff]

i believe it falls under this one still

you'll prolly be needing your parents' help

[versed kelp]

Do it

[safe plaza]

Yahoo

[frozen pike]

it's still winning 3 rounds for the card back (check details in registration channel)
the announcement might be misleading so it's gonna be fixed soon~

[blissful oracle]

Oh ok, yes, I read it on the webpage, and there it is understood that it is only 1 round haha

[slow mason]

what if mexico is both north america and latin america

[thick charm]

yes

[slow mason]

yes

[thick charm]

they didn't think that through lol

[slow mason]

didnt know there was a time limit

[patent ridge]

I still need the card back from season 4

[slow mason]

No one has received them yet

[placid basin]

October 10th and no card 😭😭😭

[pearl glade]

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-gif-21631787

[slow mason]

We're not even that far into October, let's just be patient

[hot orchid]

How many primos per win now

[slow mason]

Probably the same

Doesn't really matter when we'll get a wish or two at most

[slow mason]

I guess I'll just be na

[thick charm]

oh if you aren't really memeing with the question you could ask a mod I suppose

thought it was a haha funni

[slow mason]

I could matter for things like prince cup if there's ever another

Bot sure who to ask though

[thick charm]

you need to dm the cocogoat

#📨contact-qixing

[slow mason]

welp I dont really identify with either

[subtle ibex]

you can flip a coin if you want
i am curious tho if perhaps there are any particular cultural sensitivities we should consider when making decisions on what country belongs to which region like in this case

historically you've seen North America and South America being used as options, but i wonder if some like you often consider where they categorize themselves geographically speaking

[slow mason]

I think it makes sense for them to separate them

I know a lot of people in mexico would rather think of themselves as latin america than north america

I just happen to be the odd one out having no pride for any country I've lived in

[subtle ibex]

i get that these things may seem simple from the outset as it's all just geography, but i think it's definitely important to understand others' perspectives like yours on this matter just so that we can get it right

[pearl glade]

i will choose it for you if you want

[slow mason]

I just chose na because its the one thats probably more geologically correct for me

[arctic valve]

tbh i was alway taught that mex was part of central america, not north america

[slow mason]

central amecia is a thing?

hmmm

[pearl glade]

yes

[slow mason]

acording to saint google mexico isnt in central america

too many americas

[arctic valve]

its fun, for history, is parth of north america, for the UN, is part of central america

[slow mason]

too hard for me

I'll just stick to north america

[pearl glade]

MURICA

[slow mason]

this is why I usually just say I'm in US for online games

[polar barn]

Existential crisis intensifies

[pearl glade]

[night token]

I choose NA even though I'm in the middle of the Pacific Ocean

[pearl glade]

hawaii?

[slow mason]

I am technically american so it's not really an existential crisis

[pearl glade]

USA!!! USA!!!

[night token]

If it's considered part of the US, it has to count for NA right?

[pearl glade]

i believe so

[night token]

But it ain't a continent so Idk

[pearl glade]

well by that logic you could argue catalina island off the coast of california isnt part of the continent too

it's interesting that some categories are more useful the more loose they are in definition

and less useful when strictyly strutinised

[night token]

There's no Oceania option to begin with and since Americans claimed it, NA is the only viable option

[slow mason]

you dont have any option that fits you perfectly and I have two options that fit me

[night token]

"Does not ship to Hawaii/Alaska"

[arctic valve]

share with angela, dont hoard the options

[mint juniper]

finally got around to viewing my anniversary stats even though the reward phase is over

1. Glad I could still check it out regardless of rewards
2. 😅 The second sentence was literally for S4. Maybe some other in-game events too (that required co-op play)

[thick charm]

Everyone ready for tomorrow?

[violet dome]

Gonna be skipping this season cause of school and the fact that I’ve just played way too much TCG and I’m burnt out but hopefully everyone has fun. I’m guessing there’s gonna be a whole lots of Raiden sc with fresh wind, Din/Bin, EC variants, and maybe some Dp and catalyze

[slow mason]

I'm ready to go 0-5

[twilit steppe]

No

[twilit steppe]

Same

[slow mason]

Maybe I can be the first to go 0-105

[twilit steppe]

You're playing in 3 regions?

[summer epoch]

how will when know when we are queue for match? I signed up, but I forgot to read the times of when the prelim rounds started and I got a midterm tomorrow so I am worried on missing a match😅

[summer epoch]

is it in the hashtag preliminary queue?

[pearl glade]

No

[thick charm]

you get two 4-hour windows a day, and you can also catch up on following days

[slow mason]

Probably

I already signed up for eu and na

I still need to do so for asia

[rich wasp]

!= leoric

guess it’s not leoric

[slow mason]

[summer epoch]

Oh okay. Thank you so much I didn't know

[night token]

I hope the bot doesn't malfunction

[pearl glade]

Sussy amogus

[polar barn]

I have registered for duo region

But i don't have time
Someone do it for me

[arctic valve]

what happened with the no time issue

[slow mason]

riots

many riots