you can see the clear difference in the ideologies and cultures
#Do you guys consider Shiver to be nonbinary
leaden mulch
since in japan, there isn’t much talk about lgbt so there’s slot less recognition of non binary people, bi, pan etc
most people there only have surface level knowledge on the topic anyways
like i’m fairly certain they only know the existence of trans, gay, lesbian people
wintry canyon
There's a few nonbinary characters, like Kirby (Although kirby is probably literally genderless)
leaden mulch
well here, we see label them as non binary, but for example, kirby is gender less
and from japan, we don’t see them as non binary (because most don’t even know the existence of it) we see them as genderless
but on the other hand, a lot of people use he or him as his pronouns so
this leads to a dead end
placid cedar
This will never end lol
wintry canyon
and from japan, we don’t see them as non binary (because most don’t even know th...
Huh. Would you know how this character is seen in Japan? (Crona from soul eater)- in English they were originally referred to with he/him, but later revisions more accurately translated it as they/them. The Author's also stated that their gender is "a mystery"
placid cedar
Crona is what ever you want.
I remember in the manga it dont use gender either for crona just neutral term
wintry canyon
Depends on which version you got. They did a re-release that was revised in a lot of ways, apparently the first version was inaccurately translated in places
raw basin
the weird thing about the so called confirmation is it’s like from one article from one source and there’s no like interview accompanying the so called statement
honestly for me it has the same credibility as “my dad works at nintendo and he said…”
placid cedar
And here come nil lol
I knew you will appear sooner or later
You always in the defensive eh, Nil
If what neko said is true that Japanese people see shiver as a female I doubt now nintendo of Japan will say anything.
icy lagoon
If you’re the 53 people who voted yes, you’re either the toxic third, the unaware third or the troller third.
placid cedar
....
feral python
If what neko said is true that Japanese people see shiver as a female I doubt no...
To my knowledge, their confirmation is also the noa person
NCL likely won't confirm anything. I fail to see the relevance
placid cedar
You know how Japanese Fandom are
restive rune
Bro why would you say it's the theme of the final boss
You silly peanut now you're the one who spoils
leaden mulch
If what neko said is true that Japanese people see shiver as a female I doubt no...
well from what i see most japanese videos and conversation about shiver uses she her as pronouns (but pronouns are kind of a complicated thing in japan which i won’t go into detail and we barely even use gendered pronouns (even in game) so that’s kind of why we have literally no information about shiver’s gender)
the most common usage of gendered pronouns are the third person pronouns (like il elle in french)
so it’s
彼
彼女
which is he and she.
third person pronouns aren’t really used a lot since we use names to refer to them most of the time, unless there is context prior to the usage of the third person pronouns
but take what i say with a grain of salt because i am not the best person that speaks japanese, if anything i learnt japanese from my family talking and the internet so
(btw everyone in my family including me is japanese)
so yeah the only source you guys (the english speaking community) have is the noa tweet, and the only source we (the japanese community) have is the noa tweet as well
leaden mulch
Huh. Would you know how this character is seen in Japan? (Crona from soul eater...
honestly, i have no fucking clue lmfao
the last time i watched soul eater was eons ago i barely remember it lmao
leaden mulch
If what neko said is true that Japanese people see shiver as a female I doubt no...
yeah i think so too
placid cedar
For what I see Japanese Fandom very zealot when it come stuff that like that.
Look bridget situation one of them.
leaden mulch
wdym?
leaden mulch
Look bridget situation one of them.
well yeah
placid cedar
Japanese Fandom were mad
leaden mulch
eh, it’s the same with the western fandoms if i’ll be honest
humans be humans i guess
placid cedar
I doubt bridget will appear in future guilty gear after this drama
leaden mulch
i think she will anyways, she is still extremely famous nonethelesss
placid cedar
But in bridget situation wasn't popular in the west it was 10 place at best while japan was number 1
leaden mulch
what, on twitter?
placid cedar
And it was Japanese who wanted back
leaden mulch
But in bridget situation wasn't popular in the west it was 10 place at best whil...
to be fair, i’m fairly certain guilty gear is less popular in the west then in japan
i’m not sure
and if i’m being honest here, there is no such thing as a good fandom
placid cedar
Well true
leaden mulch
every single one has vocal minorities that ruins it all to everyone
but i would say there are more problematic fandoms in the west then in japan
placid cedar
Isn't fighting game very popular in japan?
leaden mulch
yeah
well i think
this post’s thread is endless lmfao
i think op should close it because it will probably go on for eons
leaden mulch
yeah
for now, shiver is canonically a girl
and we have only one source to confirm the statement
and we have zero to confirm if shiver is non binary, a guy, or an giant enemy spider
placid cedar
I don't care what shiver is but majority of fan see shiver as female so I don't think nintendo of japan will dare to confirm anything.
leaden mulch
yeah
placid cedar
When I saw shiver for the first time I thought was a male crossdresser
leaden mulch
and honestly, i don’t think nintendo of america would post something randomly which is important to the story and canon of the game without consulting nintendo of japan anyways
so there’s no point in arguing since it’s a dead end in both ways
placid cedar
Yep
I agree
I think characters gender are left ambiguous so fan decide for themselves
proud storm
Well in an attempt to finally kill this thread:
#1020078106037469295
The original name of the thread was: "Jokes aside, does Harmony have some sort of mental condition"
but thanks to the thread, I learned of the word neurodivergent
So I changed the topic name
feral python
The original name of the thread was: *"Jokes aside, does Harmony have some sort ...
Not to be rude but why are you posting about this in the Shiver is nonbinary thread
feral python
so yeah the only source you guys (the english speaking community) have is the no...
Doesn't take away from anything you're saying but the noa thing was actually a single statement to a single publication with no follow-up nor accompanying interview. Nintendo socials have never discussed shiver's gender
proud storm
Not to be rude but why are you posting about this in the Shiver is nonbinary thr...
cuz imo, the thread is going nowhere and it gets abit toxic sometimes, so I wanted people to go to a more wholesome thread.
feral python
cuz imo, the thread is going nowhere and it gets abit toxic sometimes, so I want...
If you don't like a thread don't read it. If you think it's toxic and needs to be redirected report it to mods. Don't take it off topic that's just counterproductive
proud storm
yeah I guess, I didn't want to ping the mods cuz they probably already have enough headaches already, but I guess this counts as minimodding.
fair enough, unfollow post, cya all in therapy
placid cedar
Therapy indeed lol
night harbor
sheesh
night harbor
Well in an attempt to finally kill this thread:
<#1020078106037469295>
huh??? kill it??? bro just say you’re transphobic 😭
proud storm
huh??? kill it??? bro just say you’re transphobic 😭
I hope for the love of everything worthy that this is sarcasm
leaden jolt
i think they just accidentally took ur words the wrong way, out of context it can look like that but everythings good
placid cedar
huh??? kill it??? bro just say you’re transphobic 😭
It can be him, it can be you or can be me. Wait on a second thought yes it can be me.
night harbor
oh am i confused
i thought he wanted to end this conversation bc he doesnt want to admit shiver is nb lol
hard cedar
I do not consider Shiver to be NB nor do I think she needs to be. If there is going to be an NB character then I think there shouldn't be so much hot potato around it. It just come naturally.
feral python
i thought he wanted to end this conversation bc he doesnt want to admit shiver i...
They just think the thread's devolved into shitty conversation every which way, which is true, and as a result should be ended.
leaden jolt
honestly ive had/seen a couple nice convos here and the main issue is people barging in to be rude (which has only happened 3-4 times i think but thats enough, yk?? and no i dont mean the person talking about "killing" the thread)
feral python
Ya, after the initial "interest" in the thread it got pretty calm most of the time imo
sand mist
Guys shiver is obv nathanial b
yes
pearl flax
100$
peak pelican
shiver does seem lesbian in a way, I wouldn't say nonbinary
verbal plank
nb or not what i want to know is could she an albino octoling? Why does she have no outline around her eyes? Is it for fashion or was she born with it
gray dust
maybe its only for fashion
pearl flax
nb or not what i want to know is could she an albino octoling? Why does she have...
Nathaniel bandy
pearl flax
nb or not what i want to know is could she an albino octoling? Why does she have...
Albino animals are white btw
She dosnt have pale skin
Or white hair
verbal plank
no her hair can still be blue due to the fact most blue is produced by light refelcting instead of actual pigmentation
The abscence of her eye masks could be lack of melanin which is usually dark brown black colours
night harbor
The abscence of her eye masks could be lack of melanin which is usually dark bro...
Pretty Sure The Masks Are Like An Actual Part Of Their Bodies
Also Considering That Ink Comes In Basically All Colours, Is It That Hard To Assume That It Can Also Be Naturally Blue?
verbal plank
Well most blue in nature is actually reflected light, thats why its a pretty rare colour irl
there’se also an octopus called blue-ringed albino octopus, which shiver could’ve been inspired from, just saying 🗿
feral python
there’se also an octopus called blue-ringed albino octopus, which shiver could’v...
No there's not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-ringed_octopus
feral python
Well most blue in nature is actually reflected light, thats why its a pretty rar...
Blue jays continue to turn white when albino, even though their blue is made by nanostructures refracting light. It's also unlikely that inklings/octolings have a single colour that's based off nanostructers while the rest are, to the best of our knowledge, pigment based. Further, blue pigment is rare in terrestrial animals, but appears in a variety of marine animals such as lobsters, molluscs, crabs, and cephalopods, where it may be a copper-based pigment called haemocyanin.
verbal plank
my bad i thought there was an albino one 💩
feral python
Happens
Oh, also albinism keeps the body from creating melanin, ink is coloured by melanin
verbal plank
Its bc her eyes are a deep shade of red which what led me to think so in the first place
verbal plank
Oh, also albinism keeps the body from creating melanin, ink is coloured by melan...
yea that makes sense
but i dont get how she removed her eye masks if it was a part of her body?
feral python
Her eyes would be blue if anything if she was albino. The pink eyes of albinism appears as a result of a lack of melanin allowing the blood vessels to show, but octopuses/octopi/octopodes have blue blood
tropic hull
fr
feral python
lmao that was stated nearly a month ago
verbal plank
Her eyes would be blue if anything if she was albino. The pink eyes of albinism ...
Ah yea good point, so her peach highlights are all makeup
feral python
Ya, unless for some reason their blood went from copper based to iron based, but I see little evidence to believe that - if they have blood at all
tropic hull
bro this guy is based af
feral python
It's weird
proud storm
Ok, I know I said I wouldn't come back here but:
THIS IS HILARIOUS
verbal plank
ong ikea shark cosplaying as shiver 🤩🤩
placid cedar
Ok, I know I said I wouldn't come back here but:
THIS IS HILARIOUS
Now that is the true shiver lol
It look majestic
proud storm
Now that is the true shiver lol
Apparently Blajah (name of the shark) is a trans icon (idk why) so that's why this is so good.
placid cedar
I know back in the 90 there was joke about woman being part shark
If she have stick down there was part shark
wintry canyon
I know back in the 90 there was joke about woman being part shark
Mmm. That "joke" sorta has transphobic roots, sorry. because it's essentially "trans women are predators .
I think part of why Blahaj became sorta a meme with the trans community is that they're sorta the colors of the trans flag
Apparently ikea themselves are aware of blahaj's meme standing in the LGBTQ+ community, as they used blahaj in an ad supporting same-sex marriage in Switzerland
placid cedar
Idk I find it kinda ironic that in the past they call trans shark as insult and now they adopt a shark as the icon.
pearl flax
Apparently ikea themselves are aware of blahaj's meme standing in the LGBTQ+ com...
Switzerland moment
leaden mulch
do you mean sweden💀💀💀💀💀💀
astral gust
Sweden is a myth
night harbor
No, its a common festival troupe to where a binder for cross gender outfits. Since the theme of this game is Japanese traditional aesthetics with Taiko drums and Obon style dances, its all based heavily in Japanese Bunka and Kabuki. Nothing gendered about it. Its all kabuki/festival based.
wintry canyon
I dunno, the source I found said it was the "Swiss government", which I assume is Switzerland's government? I admit I'm not well-versed enough in politics
wintry canyon
Ikea's involved in places other than Sweden though.
leaden mulch
I mean, the ad was made specifically for Switzerland to be fair
leaden mulch
No, its a common festival troupe to where a binder for cross gender outfits. Sin...
based
leaden mulch
Ikea's involved in places other than Sweden though.
also fun fact: ikea doesn’t sell ikea sharks anymore
and as a proud ikea shark owner, i am in tears
leaden mulch
Apparently ikea themselves are aware of blahaj's meme standing in the LGBTQ+ com...
fucking hell i just fucking embarrassed myself lmao
night harbor
also fun fact: ikea doesn’t sell ikea sharks anymore
Whaaaaaaattt
You speak blasphemy
leaden mulch
You speak blasphemy
what
how
in my place there quite literally are none
i mean they even said publicly i think
lemme go fetch it rq
night harbor
In my minds eye i switched the cups, in my minds eye. Thats half and half babbbbie
Are u in the eu?
night harbor
But its still listed no?
leaden mulch
they don’t have any in montreal that’s for sure
well the twitter account representing ireland and singapore both stated that they will be discontinued from april 2022
maybe not in other regions? idk
well this is only some provinces in canada
but yeah
night harbor
I think this is a supply chain issue
Brexit screwed eu
So nomore shark and china is messing around so no central Asia sharks
Japan has them and Austria and Australia and the us as well as sweden
leaden mulch
yeah probably
leaden mulch
WHAT
night harbor
This is an international crisis
night harbor
what does this have to do with shiver being nonbinary
gray dust
Blåhaj
night harbor
what does this have to do with shiver being nonbinary
When DOESNT ikea shark have to do with anything. Ikea shark is humanities equalizer.
But also, shes not.
fast thorn
No
pearl flax
Lore
remote kelp
Blåhaj lore
leaden mulch
Why is this thread still alive💀
pearl flax
Ikr
astral gust
Why did you wake this thread again
wintry canyon
Because it's a topic that's been debated because of conflicting info.
Tldr: Japanese version used ungendered language for Shiver, and a localization dude who censored a trans character in a different game (vivian in paper mario) is the only nintendo person to have spoken up about it, saying that they're supposed to be gendered as a girl.
primal plaza
It’s a bit more complicated than that. Japanese doesn’t really use the same pronouns as Latin-rooted languages, so the result ends up being “non-feminine female” for lack of a better term https://old.reddit.com/r/splatoon/comments/x7tv6p/shiver_gender_in_text_no_spoilers/
The ambiguity comes from before launch, where every instance barring Nate’s comment and a Portuguese localization used non-gendered terms when referring to Shiver
wintry canyon
Thanks TZG for demonstrating why this is a topic that will likely never die: every time the topic comes up somebody has to crawl out of the woodwork and say "nuh-uh, she's a girl (in my opinion)"
If I had two cents for every time somebody felt the need to throw in their two cents with that take, I'd have, like, maybe a dollar.
keen hazel
How the hell is this thread still alive
pearl flax
Ikr
keen hazel
For anyone just tuning in, this whole thing is pretty easily summed up: a guy who works for NOA said that shiver was female. While this person is the last person I’d trust on matters such as this, it is thus far the only official confirmation of anything we’ve had yet. Make of this what you will
I could talk about shivers pronouns in the Japanese version of the game, but just trust me in that it’s somewhat complicated and that it doesn’t change much about the situation either way
I think it could go either way, but that’s just my opinion
primal plaza
Would it be reasonable to infer she/they pronouns? Unfortunately I doubt we’ll get word from NoJ
pearl flax
sure
astral gust
Thanks TZG for demonstrating why this is a topic that will likely never die: ev...
Same goes for the other way
Both are in the wrong
proud storm
I personally think Shiver is ||part of Big Man's harem||
leaden mulch
It’s a bit more complicated than that. Japanese doesn’t really use the same pron...
Fax
leaden mulch
Tldr: Japanese version used ungendered language for Shiver, and a localization d...
Also where does the localization dude who censored a trans character in a different game come into the picture?
Did somebody find that out or is it just a rumor
leaden mulch
I could talk about shivers pronouns in the Japanese version of the game, but jus...
Exactly
Japanese pronouns aren’t as simple as English ones
It’s a lot more complicated and it’s not just “haha girl and boy”
keen hazel
If anyone gives a shit Wikipedia has an entire article on Japanese pronouns
It’s not a short article either
wintry canyon
Also where does the localization dude who censored a trans character in a differ...
He's the main person responsible for Nintendo's english statement on Shiver. It's unclear if he's trustworthy because he has a history of censoring LGBT stuff during localization.
keen hazel
The diff game was paper Mario iirc
leaden mulch
Also, NoJ will probably never comment or confirm anything about this because it’s quite literally only the English community that cares about this. Like us in the Japanese side just accepts the fact that “someone on NOA said that she’s a girl so she’s a girl”
leaden mulch
He's the main person responsible for Nintendo's english statement on Shiver. It...
Yeah but how do we know that
keen hazel
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns also knock yourself out
leaden mulch
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_pronouns also knock yourself out
Already did since birth my friend
keen hazel
Yeah but how do we know that
Because… we do? Why wouldn’t we?
wintry canyon
He was the dude they interviewed
leaden mulch
“Source: trust me”
keen hazel
Already did since birth my friend
Born spouting Japanese pronouns, were you?
leaden mulch
Born spouting Japanese pronouns, were you?
More like born spouting Japanese
keen hazel
(I was mostly posting it for the benefit of the people who didn’t know it but w/e)
raw basin
also the article where they supposedly interviewed him was like "we asked him and he said this"
with no further interview information
leaden mulch
(I was mostly posting it for the benefit of the people who didn’t know it but w/...
Yeah yeah I know
leaden mulch
also the article where they supposedly interviewed him was like "we asked him an...
Do I mind asking for a link to the article
I have no idea where the interview or information comes from so Im curious to know
keen hazel
Anyway, NOA already straighwashed the shit out of off the hook so I’m not particularly inclined to trust them here
leaden mulch
I see
keen hazel
I could go through message logs and try to find the big where i got my info on shivers jp pronouns but I’m lazyyyy and it’s 130 in the morning
leaden mulch
Also, why do people care about this so much? I mean I understand the fact that representation of demographics and gender identity is important and I’m all for it but, why does people see the need to start arguments that never end for like the next week
keen hazel
Representation in media is important
raw basin
but yeah everyone cites that article but I'm not sold on the credibility of it. Anyone could just say they asked and give whichever answer suits them best
leaden mulch
but yeah everyone cites that article but I'm not sold on the credibility of it. ...
Yeah
keen hazel
Representation in media is important
It’s a little hard to understand but I can promise you that it really is, and yeah that’s the gist of it
leaden mulch
Also, why do people care about this so much? I mean I understand the fact that r...
Im sorry if this sounds homophobic/transphobic but I am being genuine
wintry canyon
It's more that there was potentially implied nonbinary rep, but then they asked this guy who straightwashes things for a living.
raw basin
and then all the transphobes took that article as ammunition to put enbies down
keen hazel
It's more that there was potentially implied nonbinary rep, but then they asked ...
Heh, that’s putting it well
leaden mulch
It’s a little hard to understand but I can promise you that it really is, and ye...
I mean I get it, I lived outside of Japan the majority of my life and I still am living outside of Japan, if anything my view of ideologies are more western ( if that even means anything)
keen hazel
Huh?
leaden mulch
Ah nothing
keen hazel
Well anyways, representation is important, and it’s hard to understand if you’ve really never, I guess, needed representation (?) it’s very hard to explain but yeah
leaden mulch
I just feel like the argument of shiver is a girl vs shiver is non binary is basically endless and is ultimately pointless because we have Barely any solid proof of either sides
Ultimately, just think of shiver as anything you want
keen hazel
It’s sort of like is oth gay (they totally are by the way) but worse cause we’ve gotten even less info to go off of
leaden mulch
Yeah
raw basin
on top of that I think lesbians are slightly more tolerated than people outside the gender binary
wintry canyon
Eh, there's a heck of a lot more evidence for OTH. "You know I love you", etc.
leaden mulch
I get why people would say oth is gay but for shiver it’s less stable as an argument
keen hazel
But yeah this argument and then you get all your usual “why are you forcing lgbt stuff on games” and it’s like…. Why do you not want lgbt stuff in games like explain to me why that is a bad thing without sounding homophobic
leaden mulch
But yeah this argument and then you get all your usual “why are you forcing lgbt...
Yeah
Man
wintry canyon
I assume they were sorta going for a more gender nonconforming "tomboy" vibe for Shiver, which apparently was poorly localized.
leaden mulch
I assume they were sorta going for a more gender nonconforming "tomboy" vibe for...
Yeah that’s what I was thinking
wintry canyon
Poor english localization? In my Splatoon? That's NEVER happened.
leaden mulch
Also just for confirmation’s sake, is the reason why people call shiver non binary because of their appearance? Or is there more to it
keen hazel
cough cough this fucker (read their message history in this thread)
wintry canyon
Appearance (cultural clothes that vaguely resemble a chest binder), early appearance didn't use gendered pronouns, japan's... equivalent to pronouns also weren't gendered as much. I think that's all.
keen hazel
Also just for confirmation’s sake, is the reason why people call shiver non bin...
The pronouns and the binder and the lack of gendered pronouns in the direct
wintry canyon
Also it feels like it'd make a neat pattern with a dude, a gal, and a neither
leaden mulch
The pronouns and the binder and the lack of gendered pronouns in the direct
I see
In the English direct or Japanese direct?
raw basin
deep cut polycule is one of my favorite headcanons
keen hazel
All of the directs
leaden mulch
I see
keen hazel
Except for the Portuguese one
wintry canyon
Yeah, Frye was not directly gendered until the localization dude was interviewed. I'm not sure if they're gendered in-game because second-person pronouns are a bit uncommon?
keen hazel
They’re gendered in game
leaden mulch
Yeah, Frye was not directly gendered until the localization dude was interviewed...
Yep, very uncommon lmao
keen hazel
She/her in the English (fuckin NOA) and uchi in Japanese
leaden mulch
Uchi doesn’t really have any gendered nuances to it
raw basin
Some people have said before but I'm glad that clothing and hairstyles are not style locked anymore which makes gender expression through your character easier for a wider range of people. That said I do wish eyebrows, body type, voice, and animations weren't all tied together, but one step at a time I guess
keen hazel
Uchi doesn’t really have any gendered nuances to it
Yeah, it’s generally used by females but not exclusively, and apparently it’s more associated with Kyoto then anything
leaden mulch
Uchi doesn’t really have any gendered nuances to it
It’s basically just another way to say me
keen hazel
Gimme a sec let my grab my stuff
leaden mulch
It’s differences in dialects
keen hazel
“uchi = first person pronoun she uses
in real life, jp speakers fluctuate between what pronouns to use based on social context
in fiction however, sometimes a character will mostly just use one pronoun to emphasize a character trait or their personality
for shiver, her thing is that shes very traditionally japanese in appearance and influences. her dialect she uses in jp is the kyoto (in the kansai region) dialect, famously associated with maikos (geisha apprentices)
so to emphasize that trait they have her default to "uchi" since thats fitting to her character”
leaden mulch
“uchi = first person pronoun she uses
in real life, jp speakers fluctuate betwee...
Damn you did research
wintry canyon
What I mean is, it's more common for dialogue to use ungendered 1st/3rd person pronouns. Shiver would use "I" and people talking to shiver would use "You". In order to use gendered pronouns, it'd have to be two people that weren't shiver talking about shiver.
keen hazel
Damn you did research
Oh no, that’s not me lol, just a friend who knows Japanese
leaden mulch
What I mean is, it's more common for dialogue to use ungendered 1st/3rd person p...
Exactly
And when it comes to Japanese, most of the time we just say “shiver”
raw basin
if I'm not mistaken as well japanese is language where you don't even need pronouns or nouns in a lot of sentences. people will know who you're talking about based on context
leaden mulch
Yes
You are right
Also, you don’t want to learn Japanese
I do not recommend Japanese
At al
keen hazel
Japanese in relation to English is so irritatingly complex
leaden mulch
It’s just so different in so much ways
We just don’t use languages(?) in the same way
wintry canyon
English is a trash language, but at least we don't gender every noun.
raw basin
on a slightly related note someone pointed out before that there is a suspicious overlap between toki pona speakers and non binary folks
leaden mulch
As a French speaker, I can confirm
Honestly it’s really interesting to talk with you guys about this topic
Or more specifically the linguistics part of it
But also, can we just let this thread die in peace lmao
keen hazel
It’s not gonna die for a while
leaden mulch
Sadly
keen hazel
My moneys on it’ll get eventually modlocked
leaden mulch
Everything we need say has been already said
wintry canyon
Can mods lock threads?
leaden mulch
It’s pointless to argue more
raw basin
it was dead for a while but then some people actually came in and said "is this thread still not dead"
keen hazel
Can mods lock threads?
They can delete it
leaden mulch
Can mods lock threads?
I think they can close one tho
raw basin
and in typical forum style those messages bumped it back to the top
just like the old days
leaden mulch
Reminds me of 2chan
It’s a Japanese forum site that 4chan copied btw
Or well got heavily inspired
wintry canyon
Watch. within 24 hours, somebody has to come in and share their opinion about how they see shiver as a girl. I think the forum name invites that kind of pointless addition.
leaden mulch
Exactly
Like we already said all the proof that she might be a girl, or that they might be nonbinary, or that the proof that shiver might be a girl is not trustworthy etc
vocal python
wintry canyon
If they delete this thread, the topic will probably come up again.
If it bugs you though, you can right click -> unfollow post and it won't show up in the sidebar anymore.
placid cedar
Some people have said before but I'm glad that clothing and hairstyles are not s...
Well I was one of those people who say the same
wintry canyon
More options are better for everyone, even if they're not used as often in certain combinations.
keen hazel
does it really matter?
I just explained why lgbt representation is necessary, and I’d like you to explain why it apparently actually isn’t
real kraken
I just explained why lgbt representation is necessary, and I’d like you to expla...
ok
night harbor
shiver does seem lesbian in a way, I wouldn't say nonbinary
there can be nonbinary lesbians
finite crypt
I just explained why lgbt representation is necessary, and I’d like you to expla...
we have lgbt representatives already, i just feel that this "community" is really pushing for somthing that really doesn't matter.
its a kids game
night harbor
we have lgbt representatives already, i just feel that this "community" is reall...
why are we pushing? in the japanese translation, they use they for shiver. we are just picking up from the headcanon
everytime we want lgbt representation in media, we ALWAYS get told that we are "pushing an agenda"
just like how the rest of the cast is cis, why arent you guys pushing on that, huh? why cant we have one trans character?
keen hazel
we have lgbt representatives already, i just feel that this "community" is reall...
That’s bullshit and I just explained why it matters
wintry canyon
Even when it's not even an actual lgbt peep but just, vaguely coded as lgbt it's labeled as "pushing an agenda". The idea is to force people to react by disproving the obvious bullshit, but, by spending effort to react, they "prove" that it's a concern worth reacting to.
keen hazel
That’s bullshit and I just explained why it matters
Why, perchance, is community in quotes ?
Why does it being a kids game matter?
night harbor
Why does it being a kids game matter?
exactly
keen hazel
Oh man that is fucking bullshit
finite crypt
...
fallen surge
Why does it being a kids game matter?
BeCaUsE aLl KiDs ShOuLd Be StRaIgHt
finite crypt
why?
night harbor
me and a friend were talking about that its more of a.. club
what
finite crypt
i never said that
night harbor
what agenda are you pushing making all of splatoon characters cis? when its like that, you can push agendas then?
finite crypt
can i not have a opinion
night harbor
let us have one trans character
night harbor
can i not have a opinion
not if its stupid love xoxo
finite crypt
tf?
night harbor
anyways shiver is trans
wintry canyon
Like, apparently there's a purple M&M in the ads now, and they talk about being OK to be themself, and so the right-wing news claim that it's a trans character that the shadowy trans powers forced Mars company to include in their ads.
The supposed evidence?
- They're purple (the "gay" color)
- Their song is about "being themself"
- Other characters refer to her as "she" (as part of the rhyme scheme), and, apparently only trans people have pronouns.
night harbor
did you really say "pushing an agenda" ??? wth is wrong with you
finite crypt
ok wow.. il shut up then
wintry canyon
To be clear: M&M company employs child slavery, and every ad that talks about diversity or inclusion is intended as a distraction from that to sell more candy.
fallen surge
Y'know, why does this loreum still get replies? It's been a month, right?
finite crypt
yeah
night harbor
if it bothers you just unfollow it and ignore
finite crypt
👍
night harbor
Y'know, why does this loreum still get replies? It's been a month, right?
people can still share their opinions
because we are mad that you guys cant give us nice things
finite crypt
people can still share their opinions
clearly not
fallen surge
people can still share their opinions
I know, I'm not saying it's bad.
wintry canyon
Y'know, why does this loreum still get replies? It's been a month, right?
Because every few days, some smart aleck has to walk in with smack talk about the lgbt community pushing an agenda.
night harbor
clearly not
saying we are pushing agendas isnt an opinion DAVID
finite crypt
can you actually shut the fuck up?
why? i just put up a thumb up bbrrruuuhhh
night harbor
why? i just put up a thumb up bbrrruuuhhh
youre being petty
finite crypt
i was not beeing agresive omg
night harbor
why? i just put up a thumb up bbrrruuuhhh
you are just do negative and coming off so transphobic and nasty
so*
wintry canyon
It reads as sarcastic because of what else you've been saying
night harbor
yeah
finite crypt
you are just do negative and coming off so transphobic and nasty
im not transphobic
night harbor
i was not beeing agresive omg
ok and the reaction to my message? you definitely are. just stop
night harbor
im not transphobic
saying that being trans is pushing an agenda is very transphobic bro
how do us trans people feel? that we cant have representation on a game because its "for kids" and we are "pusing agendas"
finite crypt
🤓
(insert goofy quandale dingle laugh here)
night harbor
hahahaha omg youre sooo quirky
finite crypt
thanks 
night harbor
mf be like is transphobic I dont know why im being attacked
lmao fr
cant get a life
finite crypt
im fr smilling so hard behind this screen
finite crypt
this is hilarious
fallen surge
this is hilarious
I can't tell if you're coping or not
night harbor
anyways shiver is nonbinary she/they
period
and a lesbian
and in love with frye
frye x shiver forever
best couple
fallen surge
Somebody has to do that one pic but with Frye and shiver
finite crypt
ok wait
night harbor
Somebody has to do that one pic but with Frye and shiver
which one?
fallen surge
which one?
The one where they're kissing weirdly with their lips all stretched out
night harbor
LMAO yes i agree 100%
fallen surge
The one somebody got a tattoo of
night harbor
that would be beautiful
fallen surge
That shit would be hilarious
finite crypt
what about bigman
night harbor
i would get it tattooed
finite crypt
that makes him all alone
night harbor
ur still here?
what if i tell you big man is gay and trans? will you also say we are pushing our agendas?
finite crypt
ur still here?
noooooo i left ages ago bbbrrruuuhhh
fallen surge
what if i tell you big man is gay and trans? will you also say we are pushing ou...
Yeah, they probably will.
night harbor
i think they think theyre funny
finite crypt
what if i tell you big man is gay and trans? will you also say we are pushing ou...
yeah probly
gtg
night harbor
nobodys laughing
jesus finally
ok
thank god
LOL
now that hes gone lets have a gay trans party
fallen surge
Can't wait for another pos to come here in a few days
Get wailed on, and then leave
It's the cycle
fallen surge
sigh indeed
night harbor
i love fighting assholes so i make sure to check this thread every once in a while
LOL yes kobeni
fallen surge
I just checked because I saw chatting and was like "the fuck they doin in there"
finite crypt
back I had to go to another class
night harbor
oh god no
keen hazel
Oh god
night harbor
finite crypt
what...
night harbor
who the hell invited this guy
fallen surge
I wonder how the mods feel when they probably have to check this all the time
finite crypt
i love fighting assholes so i make sure to check this thread every once in a whi...
same
fallen surge
I wonder how the mods feel when they probably have to check this all the time
Especially considering it's one of those topics where there are, uh, sore thumbs we'll call them
finite crypt
i think they think theyre funny
no i think your funny
night harbor
I'm afraid you are the asshole in question chief
facts
youre*
loser
LOL
loser cant write
gottem
finite crypt
loser cant write
can't*
night harbor
💀 you thought u did something
finite crypt
+no bitches
night harbor
💀 you thought u did something
he thinks hes so funny bro
finite crypt
inr
night harbor
everyone is laughing at u dude take the L and shut up, or keep talking and humiliating yourself its funny
girl just leave aint no one want u here
yes
ur just making a fool of urself
fallen surge
He's doing the "if I'm funny they'll forgive me" shit
finite crypt
he thinks hes so funny bro
not funny no.. just does not care what wars I get into
finite crypt
yes
fallen surge
OMG YOU SELF DEPRECATED OMG‼️❗️‼️‼️‼️❗️‼️❗️
finite crypt
shiver would hate ur guts
would shiver beat up a member of the LGBTQAI+ community? huh?
night harbor
she would beat up asshole transphobes yes
like u
being bi doesnt save u 💀
exactly
finite crypt
i never said im a transphobe, i said it was a kids game and it doesn't matter that much
night harbor
transphobic.
saying pushing agendas is transphobic
dont change what you said
we know what you mean and you cant save yourself
finite crypt
saying pushing agendas is transphobic
did i say that?
night harbor
wdym did i say that
yes u did
YEAH LOL
dumb ahh mf doesnt even remember what he said
finite crypt
fuck im high
night harbor
literally dont care
finite crypt
sorry
night harbor
WE DONT CARE BRO
fallen surge
fuck im high
You just said you're in school, didn't you?
finite crypt
yeah...
night harbor
im drunk and i still have common sense and a brain, being high isnt an excuse fucking idiot
finite crypt
different people have different reactions
night harbor
when i smoke weed i dont go hmm i think ill be transphobic and an asshole
night harbor
different people have different reactions
NOT AN EXCUSE
exactly, weed doesnt make you do asshole-y things
thats just who you are
yes
finite crypt
i really cant be bothed any more
fallen surge
i really cant be bothed any more
uhuh, we'll be waiting for you to say gtg and come back in 2 minutes.
night harbor
LMAOO
YEAH
owned
if they come back im resorting to bullying idc at this point
deserved
all transphobes and homophobes deserve to be bullied
finite crypt
i never left tho
finite crypt
wow i feel doxed
fallen surge
all transphobes and homophobes deserve to be bullied
And maybe even have a brick dropped on their head. Might re-Iforgottyeword their head
finite crypt
you beat up a child well done
night harbor
it isnt doxxing if its in your bio
beat you up????! over the internet? please
now he says hes a child to make us feel pity...
u were a POS so we treat u like a POS. nuff said
this didnt have to be a big thing but you wont shut up or leave idk what to tell you stop starting shit you cant handle
wintry canyon
Every character you like is trans, amd if you complain about "the agenda", we pull out the transification beam that trans people supposedly have and transify another.
finite crypt
thank god some one says im not a child
night harbor
people who are trans have gigantic pps
trans people > @finite crypt
and everyone is trans
finite crypt
Every character you like is trans, amd if you complain about "the agenda", we pu...
i totally dont think the character is atractive and thats why im being agresive
night harbor
i totally dont think the character is atractive and thats why im being agresive
why do you say something different every 2 minutes
make up your mind
LOL
pulling so many excuses out his ass
everyone point and laugh
anyways i love everyone in here but the transphobe ❤️ u are all great
same u guys r great and invited to my birthday pool party
the theme is shiver
everyone comes dressed as shiver
ill bring the nonbinary balloons
finite crypt
dAmN cAn I cOmE
finite crypt
<:Shrug:848573509336694814>
i already knew that but ok
night harbor
and shiver definitely dont like you after drawing her so ugily
finite crypt
and shiver definitely dont like you after drawing her so ugily
thats not shiver dumbass
does it look like shiver?
night harbor
thats not shiver dumbass
it looks like a steaming pile of shit
night harbor
does it look like shiver?
i meant to reply to this one
night harbor
it looks like a steaming pile of shit
AHBEFIUWFAIUEBFBF
finite crypt
it looks like a steaming pile of shit
what a comeback
night harbor
thanks i know
finite crypt
night harbor
cringe
finite crypt
its called a drawing from last year
night harbor
its called a drawing from last year
what, as if its better now?
finite crypt
when i started out
finite crypt
what, as if its better now?
no
finite crypt
you gonna go on twitter next saying to ban me?
finite crypt
i love the internet
finite crypt
cute
night harbor
@night harbor wanna match?
just in the server cus i dont want to change my jinx yet
night harbor
just in the server cus i dont want to change my jinx yet
YE
which one?
you can pick!
oh nvm i cant change my icon here with classic nitro
pain
stop being poor
i can change my icon tho idm
stfu
i like the last one a lot
oki ill change
night harbor
yes he finally left LOL
real kraken
I think lgb peeps should push their message in real life and not a funny squid game for kids
Oh boy time to get threats :)
night harbor
oh no youre one of those people arent you?
it isnt "pushing their message" , we exist everywhere and having a nonbinary squid in a kid game does nothing but positive things so why do you complain?
why does it bother you so much? it literally does no harm, and guess what! kids can be transgender!! so why are you trying to silence us
night harbor
I think lgb peeps should push their message in real life and not a funny squid g...
sorry to break it to you bro but kids can be trans and/or gay.
theres lots of lgbt kids who are bullyed and harassed and feel so alone because there is no representation
saying we are pushing our message means we are not “fit” for children and that’s so hurtful
YES
literally. you are acting like we are dirty
real kraken
Ok?
night harbor
thats all you have to say?
all the transphobes and homophobes are really just revealing themselves today
real kraken
I’m just saying in the grand scheme of things a fictional octopuses sexual identity isn’t all too important and I feel like there is better ways to support your cause
night harbor
SUPPORT OUR CAUSE??? 😭
real kraken
I don’t know what to call it dawg
night harbor
we’ll be more respectful bro
real kraken
Thank you
night harbor
NO
first off: this thread is about gender identity not sexual identity. and it may not be important to you but it is important to a group of people and doesnt hurt you in the slightest
I MENT WELL*
exactly, so what if we make 1 character trans?
is it the end of the world? cats and dogs living together?
real kraken
humble lake
is it the end of the world? cats and dogs living together?
well yes, and only cats are alive
specifically a cat and it's clone
real kraken
Have you never watched all dogs go to heaven 3 starring micheal bay??
humble lake
wtf is you saying
Splatoon is apocalypse and Judd and Lil Judd
night harbor
anyways all the idols but the squid sisters are lesbians and in love
night harbor
💀
you say not denying you but you sit here trying to cause discourse
garfield is great
wintry canyon
Card is a troll, don't engage them
real kraken
How
real kraken
night harbor
your mom
real kraken
Ok?
night harbor
they have nothing better to do with their life other than being an asshole
how noring
boring
real kraken
See this is why I have an slight issue with all this is because I’m just making a statement saying that this whole discussion shouldn’t matter and I get called swears and stuff like that
night harbor
you came in here being disrespectful and rude, that is why i swear at you dont get it twisted
night harbor
See this is why I have an slight issue with all this is because I’m just making ...
then stop denying our identity owwww yeahhhh
real kraken
Please explain how I was rude I just said this whole arguement shouldn’t matter
night harbor
dont tell lgbt people we cant "push our message/agenda" in a kids game that is deeming us dirty and unfit for children when children are lgbt and representation matters
you didn’t say that
you clearly have a problem making characters trans because we are pushing it
real kraken
Never called you dirty and I don’t care if you make a character trans I just don’t think much of this as a big deal personally
If you want to make a deal out of it sure go ahead
night harbor
lgbt representation in a video game might not matter to you but it matters to kids who feel unrepresented, and its not your place to say it doesnt matter and shouldn't be talked about
yeah
it’s a big ass deal
night harbor
Never called you dirty and I don’t care if you make a character trans I just don...
you insinuated
do you know how many kids lives you can save by admiring a character is trans like them
i would’ve killed a man to see that growing up
so here i am trying to kill transphobes
why is representation unimportant to you? why do you feel the need to come into a thread talking about representation and tell us we dont matter
real kraken
I just said I didn’t think a kids game was the best place to do so :(
night harbor
we want kids to see things other than the normal cisgender heterosexual characters shown EVERYWHERE
that’s absolutely the best place to do it
we want trans kids to be happy bro
kids deserve representation
exactly
you guys act like we are "tainting" these kids
theres nothing bad with this you find any reason to complain
exactly why we feel so much hatred
we are tired!
real kraken
night harbor
ok
people like you will never see anything wrong with what you have said and its very sad and hurts people
well beni they told us not to talk to him lol
i will defend this thread with my life 💪
BDBSBSH
same
PROTECTORS
sad to know they will just believe we are "taking this too seriously" and never see anything wrong with their statements
yeah
they’re gonna say oh the gays are at it again
real kraken
It’s doesn’t
real kraken
I just simply put my opinion out there that squid game isn’t the best place for it
Yeah it can be a place I just don’t think it’s the most important
night harbor
ok and thats homophobic and transphobic. lgbt people exist everywhere
well sometimes people like things enough to become a very important place for them
it’s called liking things
dont tell us a video game isnt fit for lgbt people when everything is fit for lgbt because people are people
your arguement is weak
Period king ate left no crumbs
why is splatoon not fit for lgbt representation? give us reasonings instead of these half assed discrimitory statements
real kraken
Yeah I respect your opinions and it doesn’t matter to me how you see any character from anything
woven island
you know every time i look in this thread i just imagine shiver standing awkwardly to the side like 🧍
real kraken
night harbor
you know every time i look in this thread i just imagine shiver standing awkward...
no shed be saying period at everything me and kobeni say
LOL
snow escarp
SO HOT
snow escarp
I LOVE TITTIES
night harbor
come on everyone we need a buff gus break, no more arguing about the gender and sexuality of fictional characters
boobs
snow escarp
no homo tho
night harbor
yeah argueing really is uneccesary but needed sometimes
why is it needed now
bc transphobia
nah we aren't transphobic, we just want you to look at our argument
our side
real kraken
I don’t care if you use squid game as a platform for your community but I just don’t feel like it’s best spot for it. Yes I support your opinions and all but at this point it really isn’t about the original conversation now I’m honestly just annoyed with how you’ve been labeling me
I would like this conversation to end
night harbor
why is it needed now
because people come in here argueing over a way a group of people view a character and it just screams homophobia and transphobia. like you dont have to see them that way but to come in here and argue why we are wrong is hilarious
ummm your mother
real kraken
night harbor
I would like this conversation to end
okay then stop replying? youve been argueing and throwing bullshit claims and arguements
snow escarp
🍆 😳
night harbor
okay then stop replying? youve been argueing and throwing bullshit claims and ar...
Yeah lol like it’s free 0.00$
real kraken
Exactly what I mean you’ve just insulted me again
night harbor
ummm your mother
great comeback, however if shiver is canonically not non-binary I think it's silly that you think otherwise
night harbor
great comeback, however if shiver is canonically not non-binary I think it's sil...
and who the fuck cares if it’s canon
we will label her as trans anyways
period
she they quing
night harbor
great comeback, however if shiver is canonically not non-binary I think it's sil...
technically nintendo is based from japan as well as splatoon and the only people who have "comfirmed" shiver is female is america nintendo
i want to hear what the maker of splatoon says
snow escarp
the whole point of this conversation is about opinion so I think saying someones opinion is wrong is stupid and if your gonna say that, then stop arguing
real kraken
On god
night harbor
do we need ANOTHER buff gus break?
real kraken
YES
snow escarp
YES
night harbor
omg it’s literally not hard to just let 1 character be trans
literally who the fuck cares
you guys are so stupidly selfish
then why do you care?
wintry canyon
Stop feeding the trolls
night harbor
because i wish for representation for my identity
let us have one trans character it doesnt affect you
night harbor
Stop feeding the trolls
we are normal people……. 
real kraken
I said I don’t care what your headcannon is or how you view certain characters how is that selfish
night harbor
Stop feeding the trolls
we are allowed to defend our cause, even if they are shitty trolls. i dont like this thread being spread with negativity
real kraken
night harbor
and YOU guys are calling us trolls?
and they have shitty arguements so they send man titties
night harbor
the other person called you trolls
night harbor
Stop feeding the trolls
^
night harbor
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BAD ARGUEMENTS
card literally said splatoon isnt fit for lgbt and not the place for it and didnt give any reasons as to why other than it being a "kid game" even tho kids are lgbt and want representation
wintry canyon
They are clearly not here with good faith arguments, either they just phobic, or like making people upset (trolling)
night harbor
if you don’t like the idea of having a trans character is ok i guess but if you literally say shit like push our agendas because it’s for little kids
then that’s a little bit
like upsetting man
real kraken
I said it could be a place it just isn’t the best
night harbor
we never said that
night harbor
They are clearly not here with good faith arguments, either they just phobic, or...
girl
night harbor
I said it could be a place it just isn’t the best
read
night harbor
we never said that
yes you did
then what’s the best way
enlighten me
let people figure it out on their own
real kraken
Never said you were pushing your “agenda” to kids or called you dirty or trolls, I’ve been respectful as possible and you’ve guys have insulted me
wintry canyon
You are not going to convince their dumb ass to a different opinion, because they didn't come here to learn. They came here to be trolls .
snow escarp
card literally said splatoon isnt fit for lgbt and not the place for it and didn...
the whole point of this thread is wether you think Shiver is nonbinary, not that one opinion is right and that one is wrong
night harbor
let people figure it out on their own
WHAT?????
help
you don't need to expose children to things, I'm not saying it's bad that kids are seeing pride stuff, I'm just saying it's not needed in splatoon
night harbor
the whole point of this thread is wether you think Shiver is nonbinary, not that...
and they are kiss kiss
i am losing braincells trying to speak with these people
night harbor
you don't need to expose children to things, I'm not saying it's bad that kids a...
makes no sense
night harbor
i am losing braincells trying to speak with these people
BABSJSJSJS
and why doesn't it make any sense?
snow escarp
what is proof they are
night harbor
what is proof they are
japanese version of the game uses nonbinary pronouns
and the game gets translated to other languages but doesnt make the translations accurate
night harbor
and why doesn't it make any sense?
you say it’s not needed in splatoon but splatoon is childrens media, it’s perfect for kids who are trans. it doesn’t influence anything on cis kids.
well if that is true then sure you can say shiver is non-binary
yeah
ok good
yes
yeah
advancements
progress
real kraken
It honestly feels like I’m talking to a brick wall right now lol
night harbor
gee you think we aren’t?
night harbor
It honestly feels like I’m talking to a brick wall right now lol
youve given no good reasonings on your side so this is how i feel actually
bricks
real kraken
youve given no good reasonings on your side so this is how i feel actually
what do you meaaannnnnn
snow escarp
if there is an argument to made that a character is or isn't trans, then it's probably not a big deal and EVERYONE needs to stop overreacting, including me.
real kraken
Imma take a step back from this conversation cause this is honestly just baffling to me
night harbor
ok guys i think no one that’s here wants to be here so let’s agree shiver is nonbinary, you can have the rest be cishets, and call it a day
people come into this thread so against shiver being nb and say we are "pushing our message on kids" and its frusterating
night harbor
Imma take a step back from this conversation cause this is honestly just bafflin...
you say that????
night harbor
Imma take a step back from this conversation cause this is honestly just bafflin...
yes please take a step back and actually analyze this more
I want to know how prepared with information to back up the idea of shiver being non-binary you all are
wintry canyon
Card has already self-identified as a troll several times with a low-res troll emoji after intentionally inflammatory remarks. Stop feeding them the inflammed reaction that they came here trying to get.
snow escarp
night harbor
real kraken
night harbor
Card has already self-identified as a troll several times with a low-res troll e...
ok
yeah
sits here in my corner defending this forum
night harbor
I want to know how prepared with information to back up the idea of shiver being...
but seriously I want the answer to this
i mean they all are trolls but i feel its reasonable to be upset and try to defend our identities and something we are passionate about, even though they refuse to listen even if all we said was for nothing at least we tried
night harbor
but seriously I want the answer to this
bro i’m high and english is my second language and i didn’t understand a single word and i don’t wanna know
night harbor
i mean they all are trolls but i feel its reasonable to be upset and try to defe...
yeah and when we call them a they they’re like why are you pushing your agendas :((
so
snow escarp
you can't say that a character is nonbinary if they don't make it completly explicit. If they are nonbinary, then why doesn't the game outright say it and why isn't the game canceled on twitter
night harbor
if you've done research and you can prove it, I want you to enlighten me
night harbor
you can't say that a character is nonbinary if they don't make it completly expl...
THIS WAS ACTUALLY SO FUNNY SHDBDBDJD
its not our jobs to sit here and "enlighten" you
the original japnese translation uses nonbinary pronouns
then don't sit here and say "shiver IS non-binary but I won't say why"
night harbor
then don't sit here and say "shiver IS non-binary but I won't say why"
shut up ❤️
night harbor
if you've done research and you can prove it, I want you to enlighten me
uses they, looks nonbinary, no more questions
literally
literally not that hard
anyways
that audio of barbie saying I WIN!! that’s us
BABDJDJDJDJD
night harbor
uses they, looks nonbinary, no more questions
judging people by the way they look? racism?
night harbor
judging people by the way they look? racism?
bye
i cant
pseudo racism
not saying you are racist, just an example
how does someone look non-binary?
wintry canyon
Going over the facts again for deteriorating frog and vale (it's been repeated enough that I should probably just make a tag for it)
- In the original Japanese and some other langauges, Shiver is not referred to using inherently gendered language
- The one guy that was interviewed for the confirmation that she is cis has been known to intentionally censor lgbt content in previous games. And also it's unclear if he actually worked on splatoon 3? (I don't think he's in the credits)
- Shiver's wearing what looks like a binder to reduce chest size, but there's also other cultural clothing that appears similar.
night harbor
no, literally not an example at all and its racist for you to try and push that as an example
night harbor
Going over the facts again for deteriorating frog and vale (it's been repeated e...
yes thank you
THNX BAE
night harbor
how does someone look non-binary?
androgynous
snow escarp
it depends on the context of the use of those nonbinary pronouns, it could be "they went to the store." That doesn't mean the person in the sentence is nonbinary, it might mean that they just never used their pronouns becasue they don't go by any specific one.
night harbor
💀
real kraken
First off not a troll secondly I just came in here saying that splatoon isnt the best place for this whole debate. I respect your opinion and get your points on why the representation is important I just feel like there is more important ways to express yourself. I’m ending it here not because I give up in the arguement but because I’m just tired of how long this conversation has gone on and how little it has progressed. Also would like it if you didn’t insult me, it kinda gives me and most likely other people bad rep about you. I’ve tried to be as respectful as possible so have a good day.
night harbor
no, literally not an example at all and its racist for you to try and push that ...
how does that make me racist, I was using an example to make my point easier for your smooth pebble sized brain to understand
placid cedar
night harbor
I want to be nice but you're too stubborn to think about different perspectives
us saying someone appears nonbinary and then calling us racist is fucked up because it has nothing to do withrace and is nowhere near comparable to racism
it has nothing to do with skin color but androgynousism
wintry canyon
It's more complex than that in Japanese, as a lot of their, er, equivalent to pronouns are not inherently gendered, and the specific concept of non-binary as we know it is more a cultural thing with how strict binary genders are enforced in western cultures.
night harbor
as I said, I'm not exactly saying you're racist, just trying to push a point that it's not a great look to make assumptions about charcaters based on appearance
your argument is weak
two trans guys on this server: we like shiver to be nb bc they-
these motherfuckers: trolls. you are pushing your agendas to kids. you are gaining a bad reputation on this server.
that’s how everything looks like to me right now
im honestly so exhausted
laika
it really is exhausting
I want you to try looking at it through our perspectives
placid cedar
Is this twitter now?
night harbor
Is this twitter now?
unfortunately yes
snow escarp
Going over the facts again for deteriorating frog and vale (it's been repeated e...
just because they were not always refered to as a specific gender deos nto mean they are nonbinary, second of all if they censored lgbt, then why would they have a non binary character( I think i misunderstood that) and lastly, what does cultural clothing have to do with being nonbinary
night harbor
your presperctive is coming into a thread where trans people have claimed 1(one) character and believe they may be trans and nonbinary and you guys have a problem with it and want every single character to be cis or cishet
ITS NOT ABT IT BEING CANON OR NOT!! it’s because we want to HEADCANON shiver as nb but YOU GUYS are saying we are PUSHING IT when all they’ve done is BE TRANS TO US
night harbor
your presperctive is coming into a thread where trans people have claimed 1(one)...
nod
wintry canyon
Sigh... the clothes can either be interpreted as a binder (generally worn by ftm or nb trans peeps to reduce chest size) OR a specific cultural clothing I forget the name of which is similar in shape but not intended function, and I don't think we have confirmation either way how it's supposed to be seen.
night harbor
Sigh... the clothes can either be interpreted as a binder (generally worn by ft...
you don’t have to be here if you don’t want to bro
or am i misreading as rude
it looks like laika agrees to what I'm about to say, but just incase I want to state that if it's not canon you can't say other people saying shiver is a female are wrong, just that you see shiver as nb even if it's not technically true
placid cedar
So hostile
night harbor
i mean listen dude at this point when i see a character i want to be nb be called a girl i just. it gets fucking irritating the 82838373th time it happens so we just pretend they are nb in our world where silly people like everyone on this thread reside
night harbor
it looks like laika agrees to what I'm about to say, but just incase I want to s...
people come in here saying shiver is female but that isnt canon either
snow escarp
I'm just curious, why do you guys want a character to be nonbinary
night harbor
that's a good point
night harbor
I'm just curious, why do you guys want a character to be nonbinary
because we want representation for the new generation of kids
because representation is good, not everyone is the "norm"
and do you know how important it is for us to see trans characters in this heteronormative society
wintry canyon
In japanese, it's a bit more complex than just using "they/them" pronouns, because most of their equivalent of, er, "pronouns" don't have inherent specific gender, but, instead, they have different social connotations, which can sometimes imply gender. Shiver is never referred to with terms that lean femme, which might imply that they're intended as nonbiney or simply as a tomboy or gender non-conforming girl, but, we have no confirmation either way from anybody actually credited in the game and instead just some dude from Nintendo normally involved with translation, but not specifically in the credits for splatoon 3 afaik.
night harbor
and almost ALL characters are shown as cisgender or heterosexual so whats the big deal if non cisgender heterosexual is shown, lgbt kids deserve to feel welcome in this world
mhm!
I agree that non cisgender heterosexual stuff should be shown, but it doesn't need to be canon or matter, you can have a supportive community but you're pushing for more even though it's untrue
it can be from the community, not always the game
well we were angry that someone said we “push our agendas”
night harbor
I agree that non cisgender heterosexual stuff should be shown, but it doesn't ne...
but whats the problem if we “push” it? we just want 1 character, you guys have the rest of the fucking cast
wintry canyon
It's not not untrue. Shiver's gender has not been confirmed yet by anyone that actually worked on the game
night harbor
yeah
I don't see it as "pushing an agenda" like it's communism or some shit, but you don't need to have a nb character to have a community that supports pride
night harbor
it can be from the community, not always the game
yea and we like it even if its just in the community not canon in the game, but the community comes in and fights against us and we get really frustrated
night harbor
I don't see it as "pushing an agenda" like it's communism or some shit, but you ...
do you not understand
I am trying to agree with you, but you're too stubborn to see that
its okay if you dont view her as nb but dont come and tell us we are wrong when she canonically isnt actually female either
real kraken
We never did……
night harbor
go back and give us an example when we said that
snow escarp
I don't think any teenager or younger that is struggling with fitting in because they are lgbt is gonna look at the Japanese's copy of the game and translate it to English to realize they dont say a characters gender just to feel better about themselves.
night harbor
I don't think any teenager or younger that is struggling with fitting in because...
how can you be so dumb
snow escarp
how can you be so dumb
what is dumb about it
night harbor
i think we should give up kobeni these guys are just too stupid
real kraken
placid cedar
I don't know I think you all are stupid
snow escarp
i think we should give up kobeni these guys are just too stupid
TELL US WHY WE ARE SO STUPID
night harbor
snow escarp
I WANT TO KNOW
placid cedar
This is entertaining
night harbor
no
night harbor
how can you be so dumb
how can you miss the entire point of what frog was saying?
real kraken
This is entertaining
True
wintry canyon
I've said my part, listed the facts, not just my opinion about people being "too pushy" with their headcanon in a thread about headcanon, if you choose to assume "Nintendo would never have a nb main character" feel free.
snow escarp
i think i know why you wont tell us
night harbor
because that wasn’t the fucking point at all
snow escarp
because you just lost the argument
night harbor
you don't need to expose children to things, I'm not saying it's bad that kids a...
said we dont need to expose children to lgbt
WHAT?? NO BITCH ITS LATE I WANT TO GO TO FUCKING BED
wintry canyon
Do you think we should expose children to cis characters?
night harbor
great comeback, however if shiver is canonically not non-binary I think it's sil...
she isnt canonically not nonbinary
wintry canyon
I mean, a lot of children exposed to cis characters grow up to become cis people.
snow escarp
because that wasn’t the fucking point at all
WHAT DO YOU MEAN THAT WASNT THE POINT, OYU LITTEREALY BROUGHT UP A TRANSLATION OF THE JAPANESE COPY AS YOUR ARGUMENT AS IF EVERY KIND TRYING TO FIT IN IS TRANSLATING IT
placid cedar
said we dont need to expose children to lgbt
Small children no but 10+ yes
Since 10+ they have an understanding
real kraken
I say 13+ but aight
placid cedar
True
wintry canyon
Ah, kids under 10 shouldn't be exposed to sexuality, right?
real kraken
Yes
night harbor
I don't think any teenager or younger that is struggling with fitting in because...
you will never ever understand this because you’re not trans or gay. you really have to be so fortunate to not be able to think that growing up. it’s not put as stupidly as you wrote it, but to a little kid seeing a canonically trans character it would help them SO much.
wintry canyon
So, their mom and dad shouldn't show affection to each other.
placid cedar
Let children be childrens
night harbor
and splatoon is rated 10+
night harbor
So, their mom and dad shouldn't show affection to each other.
^^^
nimble plover
wintry canyon
It might indoctrinate them into being straight if they see peach kiss mario
night harbor
if children understand the idea of different sexuality I believe they should be taught or should be allowed to learn about lgbtq+ stuff
real kraken
Affection is a different thing than sexuality