I struggle the most with expanding and keeping the rules of my Chording library

[shy summit]

Finding the right chord is the hardest part of using CharaChorder.

It's amazing technology when you have chords for most words you write - zero effort typing! I've been using CC2 daily for 7+ months and just crossed 1,600 chords in my library.

But adding new chords is painful. When a new chord conflicts with an existing one, the struggle is real. Even worse is discovering a better chord pattern too late, after I've already built muscle memory. I'm stuck choosing between rebuilding a huge part of my library or keeping messy chords that get messier over time.

I tried rebuilding a couple chords I had muscle memory for - it was a nightmare adjusting to the new ones.

I wish there was a chord library with the most common words already mapped. That way I could avoid these conflicts and just customize on top of it.

Examples of my current conflicts:
I want to add "rest" but (r + s + t) is already "start." I can't use (dup + r + s + t) because that's "store," and (g + r + s + t) is "reset."
For "stop," "post," and "spot" - the first two are (s + t + o + p) and (s + t + o + p + DUP), but I'm stuck finding a chord for "spot."

My question for people with massive chord libraries: Do you eventually just chord things that don't make logical sense and rely purely on muscle memory? What's the secret to building a library like @frozen steppe's 5k chords?

Any tips and tricks would be appreciated.

[tidal skiff]

Maybe you could use something other than 's' for initial 's'?
(r + s + t) → "rest"
(w+ r + t) → "start"/"store" (dup for conflict)

(w + t + o + p) → "stop"/"spot" (dup for conflict)
(s + t + o + p) → "post"

[noble jacinth]

If you aren't already using ',.;? in chords, CCOS 2.1.0 auto-deletes them in failed chords.

Before:

Akuma — Fri 09-05-25 #open-beta-testing message
the problem is that ' is not deleted in a missed attempt. so i try '+r for example which is mapped to a chord, but I miss the timing window for some reason, then i try '+r again and the r' or 'r will not be deleted

#open-beta-testing message

chord: a, output: abc , two missed chord attempts: ,aa,abc
chord: a. output: def , two missed chord attempts: .aa.def
chord: r; output: ghi , two missed chord attempts: r;;rghi
chord: a? output: jkl , two missed chord attempts: ?Aa?jkl

After (CCOS 2.1.0): #open-beta-testing message

,a abc ,aa,(chord) > abc
.a def a..a(chord) > def
;r ghi r;;r(chord) > ghi
?a jkl ?Aa?(chord) > jkl (chord: r? on a cc1)
'a mno 'aa'(chord) > mno

[frozen steppe]

I'll make a note to drop mine here

[obtuse rose]

My question for people with massive chord libraries: Do you eventually just chord things that don't make logical sense and rely purely on muscle memory?
No that would not be good. Sometimes you have to add more rules to existing ones to workaround a certain problem. For example just two days ago I added a new rule that let's me avoid the right hand (→←◌) for words with "l" "a" and "t". And I end up with chords like prwk/j for "problematic". It likely looks nonsensical to you but the point is it should make sense given your theory's rules

I'm in the process of auditing that my library fits my theory's rules, then I'll share it out

Examples of my current conflicts:
Check out my theory's direction disambiguation idea, I think it can help with this a lot

[obtuse rose]

In my theory word outlines get converted from their Gregg shorthand outlines, then I add a disambiguator if needed to form a chord. So the notation for a chord is <outline>+<disambiguators>, e.g. rs+w which is just rsw but more clear to see which is the disambiguator

Using your example words, rest store start reset, they have outlines that leave both thumbs free. So there are plenty of disambiguators available.

rest rs+w
easier rs+g<DUP>

start str
star str+<DUP>
reset str+w
restart str+w<DUP>
stress str+g<DUP>

restore rsto
store rsto+<DUP>
resort rsto+w
straw rsto+gb
torso rsto+wb

See more in my writeup's "Two thumbs available" section.

For stop post spot, they share the outline stop

stop stop
post stop+g
spot stop+z
opposite stop+w

See more details in the "single thumb available" section

I understand that you may be reluctant to free up the two thumb sticks for disambiguation. I arrived at that solution because my word outlines won't ever contain xzwq-<DUP> characters, because Gregg is phonetic. But still, words can have b and g and still I'm able to use those characters for disambiguation

[frozen steppe]

Okay I've done my best to filter everything that would not make sense or be potentially useful to others. I did conciously leave my phone number & calendly url. If you find vestiges of any other personal information, setup specific macros, made up words that only my bots know the meaning of, or other gibberish please feel free to delete & repost. It was a pretty big task to filter it down, so I hope it is useful and that you all enjoy. Keep in mind that some of these chords may be several years old and rarely/never used so them being on this list does not mean I necessarily recommend them.

specific to your anagram question:
rest = rst
start= rstDUP
store= stoe
reset= rstg (mirrordup)
stop = stop
post = pos
spot = spt

wow it's beautiful

[shy summit]

WOW, I think there need's it's own post, something like "Riley Keen's chord library", this is the largest library so far, @teal pendant what do you think about this one?

I loved what I saw there, I tried to load all of them, but saving them took time, I will set it up somewhere and copy from it when wanting to add a new word.

I think if someone just starting, this will be super helpful to work with this library, because it will help him to not have to think rules just look it up and memorize it.

[molten pumice]

Really cool, thanks for sharing!

I notice there are no definitions for different word forms ("get" vs "getting" for example). I'm wondering how that works on CC devices. I've seen a few posts about arpeggiated chords using modifiers for past tense or plural... are those defined somewhere else in the library, and does the user have to define them individually? It's one of my biggest pain points on ZipChord — for example typing "place" then my suffix "ed" and getting "placeed," before realizing I need to make a whole new chained chord any time a word doesn't follow standard suffix rules.

[obtuse rose]

Just chord the word together with the modifier

E.g. get is "get" and get<AMBILEFT> is "getting" even though the latter isn't in my library

[molten pumice]

Wow. How does it know it’s not “geting” or “hikeing” or “runing?”

[noble jacinth]

The chord modifier rules have been posted here: #open-beta-testing message

Access to the #open-beta-testing channel can be self-assigned here: #open-beta-access

[teal pendant]

I think that CC can update the built-in chord library (and related chord practicing tools or guides) according to this library, so starters can start with a better and complete chord set without struggling with the rules.

[obtuse rose]

deduplicated chords output count: 3966
[deduplicated] phrases count: 163```
Wow that's very few phrases, compared to what I expected

and some words are highly duplicated (not a criticism at all, just for geeking out):

question      8
provide      7
experiment      7
difficult      7
definition      7
accessibility      7
without      6
street      6
something      6
revolutionary      6
quick      6
display      6
dictionary      6
definitely      6
communication      6```

chords with the longest number of input characters:

presence      (626, 100, 468, 110, 112, 114, 115, 116, 542)
something      (101, 103, 104, 105, 109, 110, 111, 115, 116)
stairs      (45, 278, 119, 105, 114, 115, 116, 536, 542)
tetsttest      (101, 102, 107, 110, 111, 115, 116, 117, 119)```
i.e., nine input characters

(which is a lot actually, my longest chords are 8 input characters, I wrongly assumed it would be more because my theory sometimes uses all four thumb keys)

[shy summit]

@obtuse rose can you please share your chord library, I want to take a look at it

[obtuse rose]

Yeah I will, I'm still auditing it. Afterwards I'll remove the more sensitive stuff then will share it out in my theory thread

[shy summit]

I cannot explain well enough how much this library helped me @frozen steppe THANK YOU 💪

I mean as a non-native speaker, I always have problems spelling a lot of words, but after using some of the library chords it got much better, for example, these two words, analyze (a + n + z) and analysis (a + n + s + ') feels so natural.

It's better a million times than writing the full word, while it still makes sense in my brain, I don't know why, but this is amazing.

Also, due to having reference, I added way more chords than before, because I can look conflict-free reference!

[frozen steppe]

That's amazing to hear! Glad it helped 🙂

[obtuse rose]

(New to discord... couldn't figure out how to add a Chord Library tag to my theory post, so I created a new one instead https://discord.com/channels/861730583092658206/1379322802657820705)

[shy summit]

@obtuse rose what do you do when you found a better chord and you have already built the muscle memory? You re-write it and build the muscle memory again, or you just keep it?

[obtuse rose]

Good question. I can only think of two times that happened. In the early days when I first started, I misread "because" B-K-O-S as B-K-U-S, and got bkus instead of bkos. More recently, I was experimenting with a new disambiguator for "the" h+w instead of the old h+z. In both those cases, switching to the new chord (and back, to h+z for "the" due to interference with chentry) took a day or so—not difficult.

It's very rare to just "find a new chord" for a word because 1) my theory considers the Gregg outlines of words as canonical, and those don't ever change, 2) the Gregg-to-CC1 outline conversion rules are pretty mature. So word outlines are stable over time. "because" is always B-K-O-S, and so its outline is always bkos.

It's when turning word outlines into chords, and organizing them, that's when chords can shift around. I'll give an example, but I think because I haven't developed muscle memory for all but the most common words, shifting words around isn't an issue. For example while typing this, I found that I didn't have a chord for "considers". "consider" is K-S ks+<DUP>, and because the pluralize modifier <AMBIRIGHT> is at right pinky west—butting against s, I use , (the alternate S) for pluralizing words with s. ks, was already "consist" K-S-S, so I switched things around and added these chords:

ks+<DUP>, considers
ks,+- consist (up disambiguator)
ks,+-p consists (double up)
ks,+- & o consist of (add an o)
ks,+-p & o consists of (same)
(the & notation is for phrases, stringing words together; o is the outline for "of")

[uneven warren]

Is there a way to view a chord library without having to load it into my device so that I can see what chords people use for specific words.

[obtuse rose]

You can just load it into device manager, and don't save to your device

I'm writing a python script to read my library CSV and create a table/spreadsheet for my chords, as part of my theory writeup pet project, but that'll take some time

[uneven warren]

How do I just load them? I disconnect my device and go to "restore" and use the library I want to search through? and then delete everything before I connect back to my device?

[obtuse rose]

Yea exactly. You can even do that in an incognito window for better separation, in case you didn't want to accidentally connect to your device and save chords. Note that loading a chord library without connecting to a device works for chord libraries only, not full saves that includes chords layout and settings. (I tested that on master.dev.charachorder.io)

[obtuse rose]

To clarify, by "delete everything" you should hold Shift and click the undo button to undo everything

[obtuse rose]

here's a preview of my chord tables, currently limited to outlines of lengths 1 and 2 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UuxAJPXn-QJb8rYP-Mi4lkf1FVyY_ZYiNY_HQZz1HRo/edit?usp=sharing

[rustic oxide]

Hey all - Thanks so much for this thread - I am just starting out on chords, and would love to copy much from an already established list of chords, however, I am not sure how to handle duplicates. -Are they something that we should embrace, as in it is preferred to have several chord options to use for one output, or are they something that we should try to minimize? ...if it's the latter, how would you go about choosing which to keep and which to delete if you were a beginner? I imagine since my finger gymnastics are not yet mature, I should not rely on keeping only what's easiest to execute.

[obtuse rose]

I personally try to avoid duplicates whenever possible. I have duplicates in my library because my theory has multiple rules to parse words, usually one existing rule plus a new one that needs to be tested. Testing means I need to gather more data (words) to see which rule should prevail.
Some, e.g. Harri who uses steno or Riley seem to like to have lots of ways to chord the same thing. Maybe that's what it takes to type fast, I don't know—I'm not fast yet.
To your question, if you are fully adopting a theory, then I would just import the library for the theory and use the theory rules to derive chords. I.e., learn the theory rules instead of memorizing individual chords, and maybe just use the chord manager as a learning aid.
If, on the other hand, you're just selectively borrowing chords from other libraries, then I would just pick the ones that best match your existing theory. If you don't have a theory (e.g. muscle memory based briefs), pick based on ease of chording or memorizing.

[tidal skiff]

Steno allows for multiple solutions, for instance "bishop" could be bi/shop, bish/op, bishp or bshop

But recently Cat was saying they actually remove entries from their dictionary so they're forced to memorise just one

With the reasoning when there's only one option, they don't hesitate

[rustic oxide]

thank you both! ...I am more on the don't have a theory - and would like to start off of Riley's. I'm thinking I'll start to remove duplicates but I as I remove each one, add it to a list of removed chords - that way if I find a reason to add any back in the future, I don't have to start from scratch.