Stop ruining endgame

[sweet pier]

I've noticed this Коля's posts. He was stating there's no plans to allow fame games appear in test.

And that was an absolutely correct decision! Game feels good when I have gradual small steps to do, when I can feel my progress. But since I've discovered Fame I've stopped progressing. Now I know the vastness of what I have to achieve, so I'm discouraged to even try.

When you play Diablo2, you've got to unlock every location, every difficulty level. They didn't allow you try fighting Diablo on lvl1. You have to earn your right to get beaten by a Diablo.
I have to be earning my right to be beaten by that sneaky bear.

So 1**. don't add fame games to Test.**

Then, even watching my replay vs top1 once is enough to ruin the fun of expecting to achieve and witness it someday. If you allow playing through every fame match, don't let me see losing replays.

I would suggest going further and simply stopping Fame run on first loss. No luck, better luck next time! And obviously then chests deduction on a loss should be removed also, as there will be no gambling. I don't like the mechanic of having to guess win or loss, it doesn't bring me joy, more on a negative side, irritation and disappointment. But you as game devs know better, maybe negative emotions are required for overall fun and addiction, this gambling one is on you.

2. don't let me see losing replays, or better yet don't even let me fight stronger opponents at all, finish run on first loss.

here is my fame suggestion. Intention is to stop ruining the fun and excitement of unknown, of future discoveries I'll see when lvlup my rating! Now I've just fought the final Diablo boss as lvl1, added it to tests and will grind it until solved. Overwhelming. Not fun. No sense of improvements every day. My own fault? Sure. But game should guide us to our fun. And it seems Коля used to understand it too.

[round yacht]

Being able to save Fame opponents / watch replays does not oblige you to do so.
If it ruins your fun, then you are free to skip it and run more ladder games.

I think we have a different vision of the "endgame". For me it is about my bot and the things it is able to do, neither about my place on a ladder nor about the opponents that I face. Although, I would still use an opportunity to watch the games against all sort of opponents to get an inspiration on how I can improve.

[sweet pier]

Once I'll reach level of top1 (top3 in your case iirc), I won't be caring for unpleasant experience as well. It won't feel overwhelming too. But the rest 90%+ people never will be top1. They will always suffer to this.

Yes, it's about things we are able to do, and the reason we call it game instead of work, although tasks are very similar, is because game brings rapid small gratifications on every step. There's breadcrumb trail of gratifications. That's basic of gamemaking. And by giving me, lvl1, an unbeatable opponent to face, to save in tests and work against, this distance to the next breadcrumb of fun just increased drastically. It's not even convenient for me to play fame this latter days, since my code is in progress, in hope to one day achieve endgame greatness. Because I was given this top1 opponent early.

"just don't do it" is good enough answer, but I'm just trying to help making a better game. Not just for top1 players. I don't actually care that much, since I do expect to get up there, or get banned for being overly active on discord (lol won't be a first), or who knows maybe tomorrow I'll wake up of this spell of enfatuation to screeps :)

[round yacht]

There is a fun story related to simple code. There are opponents in SS that are really tough to beat for my bot: Shine, Sneaky, Deus, Aecert. One wrong step there and I've lost the game. So I decided that I need to find another strategy just to see the problem from a different angle. I spent half an hour doing some math trying to use all the energy my spawn has. When I came up with creep body compositions I made a pretty straightforward logic: wait until all the creeps are spawned, then just moveTo the enemy base and attack it. I don't think I've coded anything else.

I then ran the bot against System to make sure that code doesn't breaks and after that I launched it against my 10 saved high-level bots. I beat all of them. When I watched replays it was so funny to see their creeps running around until the moment they realize that I'm too close to their spawn. But at that stage it was too late and time after time I was winning the game.

That was satisfying, so I decided to run it against other bots that I have saved. And I've lost to all of them 🙂

What I'm trying to say is that simple code doesn't mean that you can't win games with it. Even against experienced players (I don't like how "High tier" sounds).

But you are right that what keeps us playing the game is the sense of achievement when we are making progress. Although that doesn't mean all players understand achievement in the same way.

[misty temple]

If you don't want to test fame games, you don't have to

If you don't want to see losing replays in fame, you don't have to

No need to make things worse for the rest of us by forcing everyone to play your way

[sweet pier]

if you don't want to fight diablo as lvl1, you don't have to.
That's not how good games are made.

where's the sense of discovery gonna appear from, if I know everything that's to come since lvl1?

[misty temple]

Fame doesn't send you against the top bots

Whether it should is a separate discussion

[sweet pier]

it doesn't? I believe I've went up to actual top1 bear.

definitely did up to actual top3 dragon

[misty temple]

Fame is a farming simulator for the top bots

But even if it wasn't

There's plenty of games that have you lose to the endgame early on

The whole point of fame is you're not just fighting bots at your level

[sweet pier]

I thought the whole point of fame was - a place to actually apply my whatever skills I've got to earn some tangible loot. Like a tournament. Like a playoff.
And in tournament, once I lose, I don't go further, won't be able to try top1s, they are in their own gods and demigods world.

[round yacht]

Round-robin systems are a thing. There is a group stage where everyone playing against every other player. Then there is a Playoff stage, where only selected players are taking part. We are not there yet.