Tier 5 are random?

[acoustic imp]

I was trying to catalog which realms have which tier 5 mats and found noble bismaltus, noble hollow, and einaidia in an ascended herbarium forest the first time and then 2x Dulcet Lapis deposits and a noble hollow the second time after resetting the realm

So tier 5 materials must pertain to a certain biome but they will be random within each astrolab, herbarium, gloom etc realm type.

I think lorewise, the minor and major cards played prior to traveling affect the next realm but I haven't noticed any correlation to that effect in practice

[azure glacier]

All tier 5 resources are biome specific.
They can spawn in any type of realm as long as it's the right biome, each biome has it's own pool of tier 5 resources that can spawn on the map.
But since their spawns are random you can get a realm with none or a realm with a total of 6, it's up to RNG.

The storied realms have some of them, and as storied realms are static they can be reset to farm these nodes over and over.

[acoustic imp]

Up to 6 🤯 I thought 3 was the max so I've been stopping my searches whenever I find a 3rd deposit. I noticed this about the stories realms. I feel bad for stealing Danu's star rubies over and over lol. Also if you haven't seen yet, Luminous Fiber now has attributes! and 10% ranged damage at that. I'm so glad I won't need to farm fabled harpy for my ranged set.

And thanks for clarifying about the tier 5 materials

[azure glacier]

Widower spider also has 10% ranged and was already an easier way to get 10% ranged than fabled harpy.

Fabled harpy is for those who want to go overkill on their ranged gear and cap their movement speed

But it's hard to know about materials and their stats in this game so you may want to make use of the Materials Catalogue that one of the players has created
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1perbCD5Bqu_SirUgmIIk1L5PS2fDW2T9W-rlbvIkAn0/edit?gid=1196208520#gid=1196208520

It is a great resource for looking up resource stats and where to find things

It is a work in progress though so it isn't complete, but it gets updated very regularly to stay up to date

[acoustic imp]

I believe its the only tier 5 fiber for ranged damage, so for those like me that want their gear made out of 100% tier 5 parts, it's now possible for ranged as it already was for magic and melee

[azure glacier]

You can turn fabled meat into animal fibers and use that to make textile materials.
So widower and fabled harpy can both be used for it already lol

And if you want all materials to be t5, go for it.
But the material tier doesn't matter, only the stats do

[acoustic imp]

The tier matters to me and my ego 🥲

[azure glacier]

The one and only time gear score matters is for harvesting the gs100 tier 5 resources, ti doesn't matter beyond that so you should focus on material stats rather than their tier

[acoustic imp]

That's what luminous fiber is. Lvl 100 plant fiber for ranged damage

[azure glacier]

Pursuit is a tier 3 metal and yet is the best metal in the game for ranged crit builds, even though we have a tier 5 ranged damage metal that has twice it's damage.
The tier 3 one has better stats so it's better most of the time

So the tier of a material doesn't matter, only the stats do

[acoustic imp]

Einaidia is tier 5 metal with 12% ranged damage

[azure glacier]

Yeah and Pursuit with its 6% ranged damage is better for a ranged build, you get better damage going full pursuit than you do with Einaidia

[acoustic imp]

Oh I read the rest of what you said now

[azure glacier]

Since pursuit also has 6% crit damage

So focus on the stats of the material, not it's tier

[acoustic imp]

Let's say base damage is 100 and base crit damage is 0.

6% damage and 6% crit damage would hit for 106 and crit for 112.36

12% damage and 0% crit would hit for 112 every time, plus einaida gives big speed and other stats.

I don't think I can agree pursuit is better than einaidia

[azure glacier]

Because you're forgetting the charms that further boost crit damage output, also crit infusions exist

And the assassins sight spell

They all add up

But it means nothing if you struggle to land crits often, that's why some players instead go for a full damage build and ignore crits

[acoustic imp]

With a crit infusion the pursuit example will now crit for 118.72 (106x1.12)

The einaidia example will now also crit for 118.72 (112x1.06)

Making einaidia clearly better once you factor in its other stats 💁‍♂️

[azure glacier]

Once again, you don't have the whole picture.
Gem slot.
Now that we can use eoten hearts as gem there is 1 gem that grants 10% ranged for that slot, but since no stone powder adds ranged damage that slot caps at 10% ranged damage.
But it caps at 16% crit damage if you use a crit gem and marble powder instead.

There are also the charm that boost crit damage, and the hunter minor cards that also boosts crit damage

I probably still forgot about something too, but in the end people get higher damage numbers using a crit build.
But a full damage focused build works just as well, a lot of players that don't want to go through the extra steps of casting spells and such to buff their damage tend to go for pure damage instead

[acoustic imp]

My argument is that Einaidia is better than Pursuit. Not that stacking ranged damage is better than stacking crit damage. I'm saying you should still do all of those things for crit, but with Einaidia instead of pursuit. Charms, infusions, and gems are irrelevant in my argument because they affect your stats the same way whether you used Einaidia or Pursuit. They make the same difference either way. Stack crit charms and infusions and realm cards, use Einaidia instead of Pursuit. The difference in damage is not significant, but you get other bonuses from Einaidia

[violet lotus]

If I just taking my clothes into account without the weapon stats (anyway it's calculated in independent multiplicative terms), I do ~+250% times more crit damage than if I were on a ranged-only set up, only ~+37% on a set up with only crit infusions and no einadia.
If I compare the set with and without einadia, I get a difference of 80%.
Since you can't put crit on textile components, do the pursuit is much more efficient than the einadia.

moreover, if you make your clothes in harpy thread, you'll cap your speed and get enough stealth

[acoustic imp]

I won't be using harpy thread. I'll be using Luminous Spore so I can use all tier 5 materials

[acoustic imp]

I consulted a math nerd to make some charts to calculate the optimal mix of Einaidia and Pursuit to use in order to maximize damage. These charts assume you have 6 death infusions for a 36% crit multiplier and are also using a Mystic Longbow which has a base crit multiplier of 40%, to have a total of +76% "base" crit damage. Also note that there would be different charts for different weapons.

The first chart shows someone like me, trying to avoid leather and only having a maximum of 8 metal slots in my whole equipped set. For this the optimal amount of Pursuit is zero.

The second chart shows someone with a maximum of 15 metal slots in their set. For this the optimal mix is 7 parts Pursuit and 8 parts Einaidia.

[violet lotus]

Mystic Longbow which has a base crit multiplier of 40%
What? Mystic Longbow has a base of 4 (or x400%) but it doesn't matter since the bases are in independent multiplicative terms and therefore shouldn't influence the function. But I'm curious to see how it's calculated, especially the first one, normally the function should look something like f(X)=(3.96-X×1.3)×(1.36+X) with n crit slot <=> X=n*0.06 (as for every 6% of crit gained you lose 6% of ranged damage) [and I know it may doesn't start at 3.96 but that's to make the message more readable rather than putting in a variable that I have to explain]

to take into account the weapon's materials, then we have f(X,Y)=(3.95-X×1.3)×(1.36+X)×(1+A-Y)×1.3×(1+B+Y), with A the ranged damage multiplier for the materials/infusions on the weapon without pursuit , and B the crit multiplier for the materials/infusions on the weapon without pursuit.

max f(X) =~ f(0.83) about 13 slots of crit, that goes beyond constraints

[acoustic imp]

4x does mean 400% doesn't it 🥲

[violet lotus]

yeah not 40% but I guess it's just a typo ^^

[acoustic imp]

I told my math nerd about my mistake and ill screenshot what you said and send it to him

[acoustic imp]

Nah I messed up, I told him base crit of +76% damage from 36% of infusions and 40% from the 4x

[violet lotus]

crit shot calculation works like this weapon_base_crit×weapon_base_dmg×weapon_quality×(1+weapon_damage_multi)×(1+weapon_crit_multi)×(1+gear_damage_multi×gear_quality)×(1+gear_crit_multi)

[acoustic imp]

I did not realize the weapons crit damage is multiplicative with your weapons base damage. Another variable which I believe is an easy oversight is that ranged damage can be further improved by the upgrade bench by 30% while critical damage cannot. So a 12% ranged bonus is really a 15.6% ranged bonus and a 6% ranged bonus is a 7.8% ranged bonus

[violet lotus]

I've taken the bench upgrade into account, assuming it's in epic in my calculation and the formula I gave just above.

it's the x1.3 terms and the quality terms in the formula (which is not calculated the same way depending on whether it is on the weapon or the gear. more infos here #1293474453094928455 message )

[acoustic imp]

This is what he came back with after revisions. I've read his equation like 100 times and well uhh.. I was hoping you could tell me if it's good or what needs changed cuz idk 🤣

In his last line I'm sure he means sockets and not infusions pertaining to pursuit

Also as far as constraints, using the recipe's I'm tracking and viewing here plus the explorer's pack there are a total of 17 slots for a metal

[violet lotus]

How the calculation take into account the rank damage % that don't come from einadia or infusions (10% from thread and the leather part of the reinforced leather, the 20% from the lining and the 30% from the durable cloth)? The damage multiplier doesn't start at zero on the graph, so it has to be taken into account somewhere , but I don't know how it's calculated. These are stats that can't be replaced by critics, and that's what's most important in the calculation, since it creates an imbalance between ranged and crit, which makes crit more effective.

There is quality applied to the crit, which is not the case in game, and ranged damage infusions do not benefit from quality in the equation but it is ingame.
and I don't know if it's intentional, but the variable for crit and multi-crit infusions has the same name.
And finally, what does the “damage multiplier” represent? because 15 ranged multi is just huge, I have like ~5.5 on my stuff.

[acoustic imp]

He doesn't know the name for Einaidia or Pursuit so I think where he put crit_infusions he means. (1 + 0.06 * n_crit_pursuit + 0.078 * n_dmg_pursuit)

[violet lotus]

it looks more like 0.06 is the infusion crit and 0.078 is the crit given by pursuit

[acoustic imp]

He probably used the same thing he did for the different colors, which would be swapping a damage infusion for a crit infusion, or -6%dmg +6% crit

[acoustic imp]

I think you're right

[acoustic imp]

I was confused what he meant by "damage multiplier" as well. He said it is the damage bonus multiplied by the crit bonus

[acoustic imp]

These only apply to the metal pieces of the gear. I told him there's nowhere else to put crit damage but ranged damage can be increased further elsewhere. Taking that into account, like Zeratica tried telling me earlier, it probably does mean using 100% pursuit or close to it is gonna be better

[violet lotus]

I mean, if you only take metal into account, with the 1.3 bonus because you have your gear in epic, then yes having more einandia than pursuit will be worthwhile, but except that it doesn't work like, you assume that there is no other source of ranged damage % on your gear, that you have a lot of ranged% coming from other parts and that's what makes it crit worthwhile, it's because there's a lot of ranged% on the side, for exemple, on my gear I have 5.405 ranged % that doesn't come from metal parts

[violet lotus]

I get this with my gear, the 2.42 is the crit multi of my gear with pursuit only, the 6.246 the ranged damage multi of my gear with pursuit only,
988.65 is my ranged of my gun and 4.62 the crit multi of my gun

I start from 14 ranged slot (so 14x0.06 for the ranged and -14x0.06 for the crit) each time I do -0.06 in the ranged multi term and +0.06 in the crit multi term so until.
For the infusions I start from 7 crit infusions (so 0x0.06 for the ranged and -0x0.06 for the crit) until 7 ranged infusions (so 7x0.06 for the ranged and -7x0.06 for the crit)

[violet lotus]

same thing but with wolfram alpha, first picture with 7 infusions ranged damage and 7 infusions crit for the second

[acoustic imp]

Good to know, I guess I'll start calling this my speed set then 🥴

[azure glacier]

Glad someone who actually knows the damage formula and understands it was able to explain it better than I could

[acoustic imp]

Sorry I didn't believe you, I feel bad that it took all this but I did learn a lot 😅

[violet lotus]

if you want to go even further I made this gdoc a few weeks ago https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VlQmyjYtelCH8jwRW01_uJvIKMhth67McJuBD-wrLxQ/pub

[azure glacier]

Never apologize for questioning someone who isn't providing any evidence or hard facts to support their claims 😄

[acoustic imp]

Would 30% ranged and 30% crit offer more damage than 48% ranged and 18% crit? I used t4 Hollow Metal for crit on my melee build, which gives 10%, but my melee damage bonuses are still wayyy greater than my crit bonuses.

I'm curious about magic too, I feel like it used to explain how increasing your magic power affected spells but doesn't anymore. For example if higher magic makes my ring of empowerment empower me more, I could use titan's fingernail, but if it just makes it last longer then idc. I also heard magic power affects magic bullet damage, is that true at all?

[violet lotus]

in the case of the example, yes, 30+60=90, 48+36=84, it's even more for a build with less crit, less for a build with more crit.

[acoustic imp]

T4 hollow metal might be even harder to farm than fabled harpy 😭

[violet lotus]

to take the example of my build which I used as an example in my gdoc:
I only used pursuit, and it resulted that a pursuit ingot is worth 6%+6%×2=18% ranged damage. Compared with Hollow metal ingot (10%×2=20%), which is only a two-percent difference, so chances are you won't only hollow metal ingot but some pursuit.

[mental laurel]

It definitely absolutely is

[whole salmon]

https://tenor.com/view/wednesday-mind-blown-wow-whoa-gif-12973294

me reading this thread

[clear stone]

and decidedly *not *where I thought it was going from the title...