The Great Nightingale Materials Catalogue (Check Pinned)

[sleek niche]

Can you share the link for it. I cannot scroll that "Materials+More" thread to the top.

[remote cedar]

of how much, the Charm of Called Shots, increase the crit hits ?

[sleek niche]

3-4x. Previous it did.
200k DMG to 770k crit DMG.

Now, I am not sure.
Fyi carnute does not have a weakpoint.

[remote cedar]

~4x? that massive

[sleek niche]

But it also makes your non crit into 1/3 rd.

[remote cedar]

yeah but I aim only the for head/weakspot when I'm using my bolt action

[sleek niche]

Do not use charm on weapon.

Put it on a clothing and swap between them. Hat looks a good option.

[remote cedar]

why?if i'm not wrong, it just decrease the gears score?

[sleek niche]

Bug confirmed by dev.

[remote cedar]

yeah I know but it's no a big deal

gear score on gun are useless

[pine pebble]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1du21RDFhOgUC6oA9ITv1XtYJSEkWe-PGCFiwG6tTOhY/edit?usp=sharing

Here ya go, hasn't been updated since may though

[pine pebble]

that's still up for debate I think. GS on weapon < creature level may have a backend damage modifier for calculating actual damage applied to the health pool. Not sure if anyone has been able to test it

[remote cedar]

In 100 realms with a 92 rifle, my damage is the same than the damage display the character sheet

[pine pebble]

what you see might be correct, I'm talking about what's actually applied to the health pool of the creature. we don't see HP numbers, just the bar

[remote cedar]

if my gear score is not enough, ennemies will be considered as having more hp? It's a strange behaviour, especially for a multiplayer game

[pine pebble]

Not saying it is the case, just that its a possibility. It could be negligible, but the combat is tuned well enough its difficult to test without access to the creature numbers

But were getting inti minmaxing and not crafting so Ill drop it

[remote cedar]

I understand that it's being debated, it's just that I find it too twisted a way to calculate the damage. Plus it's far too inconsistent for theory crafting or just general player experience

Okay my rifle gain 9 gears score from a charm, it's not bugged for the gun?

[remote cedar]

it's a massive nerf, from 58k (6.6k * 8.9) to 73 k with the charm

and the non-critical hits have been reduced by just one third

charm of patience got a nerf too, now the cooldown is trigerred by ours hits and it's not double damage anymore

[sleek niche]

Charm of steadiness can only be taken use by Lever action?

[remote cedar]

no?

it's working with my bolt action https://i.imgur.com/jPIb7hW.png

an overview of the disappointing effects of the charm of patience x):

[neon pumice]

is it possible to add a Color/Finish column for the Ore & Gems tab? Would be helpful to know what the default color is before used on your gear/weapon.

[sleek niche]

Kaph, have you finished fixing the augment list table ?

[hard narwhal]

If people would like to assist with this, for metals that don't show their colors on the icons of the ingots/gems, I can add these visuals to my visuals guide.
Someone already asked for plants to be added as well, so I'm going through that at the moment.

[sick patio]

Hey, cant seem to find "Arcane Wick" in the Location Finder. Can someone tell me where i can get it?

[fading plume]

i was lucky found the new melee ore with two areas of it next to each other lmao

[remote cedar]

it's dropped by bound ennemies

[sick patio]

thanks, where do i find T4 Bounds?

[remote cedar]

from high level realm (lvl 100), all ascended realms and vault, try gloom realm with blood moon card

[sick patio]

Okay Thank you 🫶

[lusty fulcrum]

As a note for the augment list- the two-headed shelf also gives the excellent berserker trait

[sick patio]

Hey, i think something is wrong with the crafting for Clothing. im Using Reinforced Fable Harpy leather(22% Range DMG) and einaidia Buckles (14% Range DMG) but the total shown for the final item is 34% so im missing 2% DMG

[remote cedar]

yeah, when you use a forge card to craft metal part they got +2% crit and ranged but it's not apply

[sick patio]

Ahhh okay Thank you

[marble pier]

Thanks for these, I have no idea why those are marked like that, I definitely must have blanked.
Will double check the entire table now

I think it might be left overs I just plain missed when I was designing the format and swapped which sides were the workstations and which were the augments. But I thought I fixed that, so that's just me being blerp lol

[pine pebble]

I'm waiting for a portal to open if you need someone to screenshot the augments lists for them

[marble pier]

Nah I logged in and doing it right now

ty for the offer 🙂

Okay that -should- be right. I'm gonna go do -another- check in like 10-15 mins in case I again missed something, let my brain refresh lol

[marble pier]

It's not that it doesn't apply, it's that it does apply but only once per item. It's a bug that's happening with Forge card in that it's applying to the materials individually instead of just on the final item.

The Forge Card gives items a specific few small buffs to crafted items, if you inspect the workbench while the card is active, you'll see exactly what it gives

[nimble venture]

Feesh

[marble pier]

yuppers! swamp fish tasty

[nimble venture]

Didn't see it on the spreadsheet so figured I'd post

[molten sedge]

I recently started to work on something similar to this (never bothered to check discord while progressing), is there an easier way for me to contribute?

[nimble venture]

Though I might have an outdated one since i made a copy to use the formatting easy for some of my gear planning

[marble pier]

should be there in the meat ingredients tab

I'll double checks

yup have the t2/t3 ones, lacking the t4's for all three biomes and the t2 forest and desert fish ones

[nimble venture]

Ok then its an outdated copy I made.

[marble pier]

Yeh basically until the matcat is fully up to date it'll need regular updating for the copies, sadly they don't auto update 😦

Because I'm adding it to daily, especially location finder stuff and stats as people post them

Like I did fishing in swamp yesterday and input the T3's then, I got so many whilst fishing for fen bass oil for the quests heh

Normally I get the updates done within like.. 2-3 days of an update, then everyone can update and be done until the next game update, but with v0.5 it's gonna take way longer heh

[molten sedge]

Do you only want images here for updating? I'd be more than happy to contribute what I can from my own sheet that I had recently started.

[marble pier]

Yeh I do for actual attributes etc, I will -only- use pics, solely for accuracy reasons, I've had issues in the past from doing otherwise so I've had to be strict with that.

The only one I don't require images of is for the Locations Finder, because that's just a tracker of "where someone says they found something" heh

[warm wave]

Lol what? Carnutes have a weakspot

[marble pier]

Yep, most every creature has one somewhere

[molten sedge]

Alright, lemme see what I can contibute then.

[warm wave]

Yessir when in doubt use Assassin's Sight to see/learn where weakspots are

[warm wave]

Can you turn that fish into oil?

[nimble venture]

Yes

Meat can be oiled.

[warm wave]

Sheesh guess i know what my end game meat farm is gonna be -_-

[inland jetty]

So you can make some pretty hearty damage bonuses through meals too

[molten sedge]

yeah, it's pretty good for that

[warm wave]

Has anyone come up with good recipes for wellingtons. nector and stuff?

[marble pier]

Go for the T4 versions, the Forest Fish is magick, the Desert Fish is ranged, btw

[warm wave]

Yessir

[marble pier]

Desert Fish also has fishing ratings, making it ideal for using as Line in fishing rods XD

Or for clothing if you wanna meatshirt XD

[molten sedge]

Like this is the result of T3 ones (it'd be +6% Melee with T4)

More contributions.

[marble pier]

I was gonna make a page for "Meals", like a cookbook kind, similar to ideal augments, that can put recipes, give credit to the "chef" etc

So you're welcome to experiment, find a good recipe, and I can set that up if that sounds interesting to do?

[molten sedge]

Before I noticed this sheet, I was going to make something similar for all crafts, and eventually make it a Crafting calculator/approximator x3

[marble pier]

I used to have this ridiculously complex "Augment Planner" because recipes used to be tied to augments

That would autopopulate recipes and stuff

I'm so glad I could just delete that lol

But I dunno if I wanna make much in the way of calculators going forward, google sheets just isn't very fun to do that with.
I'm happy to make a page to stick recipes people have though

I can make a separate thread in nightale-talk for cookbook recipes to make discussion focused?

[warm wave]

Yeah not gonna lie, im good at relicating not creating haha

[inland jetty]

Must... Find... Einaidia...

[warm wave]

Just farm the node in Sylvans cradle

[hard narwhal]

Sylvan's has a confirmed spot for it ❤️

[warm wave]

Jinx

[molten sedge]

Some Fabled Meats

[nimble venture]

After after doing my first T4 vault, I can use Ascended realms to farm them as well?

[warm wave]

This is a very vague ma dude. What are you asking specifically?

[nimble venture]

Can I farm T4 animal parts from ascended realms or only vaults?

[marble pier]

Ascended too

[molten sedge]

Ascended works too, unless you're on Nightmare. 🤣

[marble pier]

tytyty

[nimble venture]

Dropping back down to Balanced until I get my gear up a notch or two.

[molten sedge]

Was gonna add Spyrys Obsidian, but it's already there. It does have a spawn in Gloriana's Tears (Storied Realm) though so I cna contribute that at least 😅

[nimble venture]

Found some of that in my Antiquarian Desert I call home as well.

[latent lichen]

t4 khepris scarab

[molten sedge]

Gears are made straight from ingots, so they're 1:1 with them for stats. I've unfortunately only had them drop this way so far.

[marble pier]

ooo kyro still drops as gears, neat, ty

[molten sedge]

only thing to contribute to Wood 😦

[marble pier]

tyty 😄

[molten sedge]

Can't for the life of me find these anywhere. These came from Forest Apex Vault. I don't think it's even used, despite having stats.

[latent lichen]

Wood tab

[molten sedge]

That's the heart, not the regular wood. Two different things.

[latent lichen]

Oh right, my bad. Keep it with your puppy skulls.

[marble pier]

Yeh atm they're only used for the Bramble Wall enchantment, I've mentioned to devman for if they can allow it to be actually considered fruit, like its flavor text refers it to being similar to, which imho would be amazing

[molten sedge]

Weird for them to have only one niche use. The Enchantments don't even apply the bonus stats, do they?

[latent lichen]

Not at all, anything used for enchantments is lost

[marble pier]

Yeh, that's why I made mention to devs re using it as an actual food thing would -really- give them some good uses

Like, ranged fruit would be amazing

[latent lichen]

Herbivores would be pleased

[marble pier]

yup

[latent lichen]

Drop rates on fabled carnute even with bloodmoon apogean are atrocious

[molten sedge]

Missing from potion list.

[cosmic mantle]

There's a non-fabled bandersnatch item

[molten sedge]

Missing from Charm List, think it's the only Watch Charm not listed.

[marble pier]

Tyty! I'm not yet at the watch (hollowed moors though!) so haven't been able to peruse, hurrah that should be the last one then

[cosmic mantle]

You're better off than me lol, I haven't progressed out of sylvan's cradle yet because my friends don't get on lol

I've got a fully-decked armor set that could probably beat the next area by itself haha

[marble pier]

I'll still list it as fabled as it's essentially the same, the stats fit the progression so far too, very good find!

[cosmic mantle]

Makes sense. It's probably a bugged item

[marble pier]

ty for the find

[molten sedge]

Missing Base Stats in Meals

[cosmic mantle]

Just found it at a POI

[marble pier]

Oh I'm trying to progress, matcat input stuff takes lots of time lol

[cosmic mantle]

I feel that

[molten sedge]

These were also missing base stats from Meals.
Surf and Turf is Bugged and doesn;t display unless one ingredient is selected, so it's 266 Health base (-10 from the T1 Oil).

Whoops forgot this one too. Same issue as Surf, Gem is adding the Melee Damage and Durability. Everything else is base.

[marble pier]

That should be foods, unsure if Black Pudding is still findable

I did get some from Poe, so I know they still exist, just nfi regarding recipes

[molten sedge]

You get it as a quest reward and nothing else. Unless there's some hidden recipe I missed.

[marble pier]

Dang. I will submit a report on that (or upvote an existing heh).

Was a good use for ichor tbh

Thank you heaps for those, wraps up the missing bits 😄

[nimble venture]

Looks like impossible loot like T1 woods I've found.

[molten sedge]

Came from the Carnute Boss during Story.

[molten sedge]

It's not impossible. Though I'm pretty sure the thing that dropped it was well above that.

[hasty tide]

Titanium, I found it in Asc Antiquarian SWAMP in a cave. So I guess either Desert and Swamp have titanium, or both lines should replaced each other. (Location-Finder Data)

[marble pier]

Yeh I think the best you -might- get is finding them in Abeyance in chests, maybe. But you can't harvest them sadly

I actually reported that issue because being unable to harvest T1 trees bars you from progressing the Lumberjack challenges

[molten sedge]

Oh you can get them, just not from trees. The Trickster Minor Card is absolutely wild.

[marble pier]

Which is an unintended side effect of not having T1 realms for desert and swamp, heh

[marble pier]

Yeh, but does that count for Lumberjack challenge?

That would be.. interesting.. if so

[pine pebble]

is there a way to make your own alloy? Like electrum (gold+silver)

[molten sedge]

Don't think it does, or at the very least never spawned those woods maybe

[marble pier]

Not atm, though that would be cool. I just recently reposted a CTP submission from pre-RR for extra refined item things though:
https://playnightingale.ideas.aha.io/ideas/RRFEEDBACK-I-372

Have so much CTP things to update and repost, but MatCat is priority heh, so only just now getting to the CTP things

[molten sedge]

Think I added everything I could for now. Will dig later to see if Trickster could be used to complete that challenge.

Will also try to help finish off more materials from the list :3

[true grail]

Could we add a "Tier" column to crafted items pages?

[marble pier]

Hrm.. what would you like the column to accomplish?

Is it to like.. find highest possible quality?

Or "best" thing?

[true grail]

Yes. Somewhat

Each piece of clothing, for instance, has stat bonuses. If you sort by ONE column only, you get the highest stat for THAT attribute, but it doesnt factor ALL attributes available.

If I sort by stamina regen on "shirts" there are 2 items with any bonus at all, so without looking further I may think these are the "best"
I could sort a different stat, but in general itd be niec to just look at the "tier 4" stuff and pick what i like best that way.

Technically, i can do this by sorting via "durability" already.

There is already a "grade" column for tools. Im suggesting essentially the same thing, but for clothes

Also, the material components is incorrect on various clothes
Nevermind, misunderstood something

Wait, no. it IS wrong.

I read the text on "Material Components" and the description is inconsistent with the acutal values dispalyed

[marble pier]

I'll spend some time today and go through them all and check the components listings

[true grail]

id glady do it myself

also, the stats arent all updated

[marble pier]

Do you have an augment affecting the sewing bench?

[true grail]

As i understand it, scholars should have EITHER :
2 metal, 1 fiber, 1 textile
OR
3 metal, 2 fiber, 2 textile.

ah, my berzerker was too close, even tho its across the room

wtf... its bugged actually

[marble pier]

Lining = 2x Fibre = **
Buttons = 1x metal = *
Buckles = 1x metal = *
Textiles = 1x Textiles = *

[true grail]

weird, had to delete and replace the sewing bench

[true grail]

How do you get that?

[marble pier]

So scholars should read as 2x fibre 2x metal 1x textiles

[true grail]

it requires 2 textiles

[marble pier]

No, it's not about the individual quantity of the materials for the craft, it's about the quantity of unique components that add attributes

[true grail]

Then the max is 4

for ANYthing

youre inconsistent with how you define "base materials"

[marble pier]

.. no? textiles is marked as textiles because it can be cloth -or- leather

[true grail]

This is 3 metal materials

[marble pier]

If you pick cloth, it could be 3x fibre, if you pick leather, it can be leather + metal

[true grail]

i ahve 3 metal above.

[marble pier]

So textiles is marked separately

That's why I listed and wrote the textiles part in the materials components listing

[true grail]

cool. why dont u have 3 metals?

[compact rapids]

hey all! i looked through ...i need some help getting noble bismaltus, i found that its from ascended forest? but hunt, gloom ? any info is much appreciated, the seargh just gave me mixed info

[marble pier]

Because textiles is separate markings for all other materials

[true grail]

im not arguing against HOW you decide to define things.

im arguing that youre inconsistent

i am showing 3 metals by your definition that independently add stats

[marble pier]

I'm not, textiles is marked separately because it can be too variable

[true grail]

hello

metal

reinforced leather uses metal

[marble pier]

Yes, I know

[true grail]

So therefore you can make Scholars Breeches with 3 metal

[marble pier]

Additionally, the Textiles material can be multiple different components, similar to the above. In addition, it can also be Leather -or- Cloth materials. When this is the case**, those materials will not receive their own individual markings, **though it will have it marked under the Textiles column, for easier understanding.

Is in the material components notes

[true grail]

i understand

however, immediately beforehand you say "To represent where this is available, the components list will **mark the maximum possible amount **of materials for each category, taking these particular components into account."

My critque is aimed at inconsistency

[marble pier]

Yes, this is called an exception to the rule.

[true grail]

im suggesting there is a better way of listing this information

rather than making an arbitrary judgement of when a materials "counts" or not

[marble pier]

The problem here, though

Is the goal for these columns is to see what maximum total materials go into a single craft at a glance

If you look at these columns -together-

Scholars breeches, for instance

shows 5 materials, yes? 2 fibre, 2 metal, 1 textiles

With the clarification that textiles can be -either- 3x fibre or 1x metal + 1x hide, at maximum

-however-

If I remove textiles

And just list the maximum possible

It would say 5x fibre 3x metal 1x hide

Which is wrong

Because you can't make the breeches with 5x fibre 3x metal 1x hide

So it would lead people to make the wrong assumption about material components available

The reason why the textiles column, and that exception exists, is to prevent that misunderstanding

[true grail]

What is the objective of your components list?
To provide people with an idea of how much "Stuff" they need?
Or...
To provide people with an idea of how many different 'stat bonus affecting' materials they can use?

OR something else?

Because, presently, you accomplish neither of the two above

[marble pier]

The latter, not the former. And I would disagree, however, if it's not being displayed clearly in this case because of the variability of textiles, I'm happy to discuss changes

[true grail]

Yes, it does not accomplish the latter.

These are stupid pants to craft, but there are 6 'stat affecting' materials here.

The disclaimer could be summarized to say "textiles are highly variable and should be counted at "2" in terms of stat bonuses

And thats really the best you could do in the current system

[marble pier]

Except it could be 3, Durable Cloth is 3x fibres

That's why I listed it as an exception

Not only is it variable by material type, but in maximum material count per type chosen

If you pick leather, it's only 2 materials, hide and metal

If you pick cloth, it's 3 materials, 3x fibres

That's why I chose to mark it as a single instance of "textiles" on the item

And list the exception as saying that textiles gets a mark to represent that complexity

I'm unsure how better, and clearer, I can represent that for an "at the glance" complexity, whilst accounting for the variable of material types involved

[true grail]

Well, i think there is a better way... but that would require first acknowledging that the current system falls short of "at a glance" utility

presently, "at a glance" it would appear scholars breeches provide 5 stat bonuses (unless you read the disclaimer and FULLY understand it)

[marble pier]

Part of the issue is google sheets, having information easily readable, and knowing that a lot of people don't read notes at all, heh

[true grail]

whats interseting is that scholars breeches can provide up to 7 bonuses, which actually matches sentinals

[marble pier]

If I had maximum bonuses to every column, I would get -a lot more - complaints of incorrect values heh

[true grail]

well, as someone who DID read the note, and isnt stupid, it was still confusing and misleading to me

im not saying im a genius, but im quite competent, and if its confusing to me, im sure itll be indecipherable to many

[marble pier]

Hey hey.. just.. step back a second. This isn't about intelligence or stuff.. please, don't get defensive here

I'm not attacking you or insinuating anything on that front

[true grail]

i didnt think you were

im saying that as someone who often thoroughly understands complex systems and enjoys exploring them more than the average person, i found this chart difficult to understand

and therefore i imagine that many folks who dont enjoy exploring systems as much as myself with have even more difficulty understanding it

im trying to say i am in a better position to comprehend the meaning of the chart, without saying "Im Mr. Smart guy 🤓 "

im trying to make an argument in favor of promoting readability/accessibility, if htat makes sense

[marble pier]

For you, what changes do you feel would be needed for it to clearly show both the total unique materials involved, as well as maximum amount of materials, using just sortable columns for materials by type?
As well, what would I need to fix for the notes explanation? If the note didn't assist in understanding this extra bit of complexity, then I shall need to fix that as well

The goal for these columns is to give the user the ability to look at that, and see what they could expect from the craft, not whether you need 4x rope and 2x cloth

[true grail]

I think that materials required, and max stat bonues, should be separated, as you have aptly pointed out there is variablilty.

I think a note that textiles can have 2, or 3 bonues based on whether you use durable cloth or reinforced leather is good.

are you able to go in a voice chat?

i can stream a good example of what I mean

[marble pier]

I cannot no, heh

[true grail]

Looking just at Hunters, scholars, and sentinals breeches are a great exmaple

ok 1 moment please

6 total bonuses, 6 asterisks.

6 total bonuses, 6 asterisks. for hunters breeches

we established that a textile asterisk could mean 2 or 3 stat bonuses, correct?

[marble pier]

er

Cloth can be durable cloth, too

[true grail]

well, the graph would imply then that there could be UP TO 8 bonuses total.
5 from fiber, and 3 from textile.
Ahh ok make it 7 then

[marble pier]

Anything that says Cloth can be Cloth, Lining, Durable Cloth, iirc

[true grail]

right ok, make it 7 total

oh wait

8

ugh

durable is 3

sry

[marble pier]

yeh

Now how do we impart to someone that if they use hide they only get 7?

[true grail]

I would say "for max stat bonuses, use durable cloth when possible" and then in the notes column, say "max stat bonuses require # durable cloth"

for this max stat bonuses require 4 durable cloth

or just "4 durable cloth req."

id also include a "max stats" column

[marble pier]

So, the reason why I've essentially tried to avoid referencing "stats" or "attributes" as a term in regards to the materials is because of how attributes themselves are not universally available among materials

[true grail]

For readability sake, id use numbers rather than asterisks as well
Its hard to tell if its 5 or 6 asterisks when you get to that amount

[latent lichen]

max stat bonuses is context dependent - using durable cloth for melee gear is suboptimal

[marble pier]

So if we say "for max stat bonuses use durable cloth" but what about crit?

No cloth gives +critical

[true grail]

Says who? why not use full humbaba cloth?

3 +10% melee dmg bonuses is better than 1 +10% and 1 +12% from noble bismanthus

[remote cedar]

I don't know if you're talking about the fact that in the matcat, you can't see the details of crafting slots of a gear, it may be stupid but why not put the slot type in mouse over?

[true grail]

30% vs 22%

[marble pier]

Take a look at Fibres, Metals, and Hides, not all the attributes are equal

For every discrepency, we would need to list an exception

[latent lichen]

Where are you finding a 10% melee fibre?

[true grail]

fabled humbaba

[latent lichen]

Is HP

[true grail]

no

its melee dmg

AND hp

[latent lichen]

Huh, fair enough.

[true grail]

its not even on the materials sheet

tbf

any "meat" can be turned into animal fibres at 2-1 ratio, and then again into fibers at another 2-1 ratio

[latent lichen]

Yes I know. Melee damage only got added to fabled humbaba in 0.5

[true grail]

The chart is incomplete, as i mentioned. 3x humbaba bonuses beats 1x humbaba and 1x noble bismanthus

[latent lichen]

But not for crit, as @marble pier pointed out

Unless theres another revamped fibre that has crit

[true grail]

im not saying you need to provide info for EVERY STAT combination, just a simple max 'possible'

so what?

right now the chart doesnt accomplish the goal of telling people the max possible stats, NOR the actual mats required

[latent lichen]

Honestly textile separately makes way more sense to me than what you're arguing for, but shrug

[true grail]

in an attempt to appeal to both goa,s, you accomplish neither

[true grail]

im fine with textiles seperate

im saying that the chart doesnt accomplish the goal of "materials required total" NOR "total stat bonuses possible"

[marble pier]

So is your mention here that as it is is fine, or make additional changes to separate things?

[latent lichen]

I don't have any idea what you're so het up about then. The sheet not being complete for 0.5 yet?

[true grail]

no, just nvm i dont think you understand

[latent lichen]

Sheet seems fine. Focus now is on data collection. T5 humbaba melee stat is useful at least from this.

[true grail]

Youre saying "its fine" but you didnt know that materials even existed.

[latent lichen]

Mate calm down. The sheet is a work in progress on an update from a week ago that revamped everything. Nobody here is under an obligation to fulfil your needs.

[true grail]

thats fine

im aware

which is why im making a suggestion of how to improve

but im spending like 30 min now explaining a flaw and being told "shut up its fine"

[latent lichen]

You do you man

[true grail]

im not asking anyone to fulfill my needs

ill fix it myself

if i had edit perms

[marble pier]

Fellows, stop.

[true grail]

ill just block him

[marble pier]

Legit, stop, like, end.
We'll take a break, I need to make something to eats.
I shall come back, and will considers as I cooks

[true grail]

nah nvm

you know better than everyone, its fine

[marble pier]

I'm not saying that, I'm legit engaging because I value all views.
I'm saying we come back and give things time to settle a bit before continuing

I will be back shortly, I need food, has been about 9 hrs since I ate heh

[true grail]

My suggestion to add a "max stats possible" column was met with :

1. "ppl would complain"
2. "some stats arent available"
3. "the note already explains it"

#1 implies that other peoples complaints are valid, and mine are not.
#2 assumes that somehow the current format already allows for all possible stats? (it OF COURSE doesnt, so idk how this is a counter argument)
#3 you said yourself ppl dont read notes, and its extremely wordy and confusing

The takeaway here is that any critque or suggestion i make is going to be met with dismmissal by you @marble pier and youll ALWAYS have an excuse why YOU are right and anyone who thinks differently is wrong.

A la, "You know better than everyone"

[lusty fulcrum]

so if your opinion doesn't win out, it was never considered?

[marble pier]

Not here mate

[true grail]

No, but my opinion is NOT being "considered" it is being treated as an argument that needs to be debated AGAINST

this isnt a discussion, its a competetion, for reasons I cant understand

The fact that the counter arguments against me pointing out flaws are so flimsy, reveals the fact that "critiques" arent accepted.

They arent strong counterpoints, they are just excuses

"people might complain" is an absurd counter argument, especially against someone complaining. lmao

[marble pier]

Ah, Kat's already here, I was about to bloop, heh

[lusty fulcrum]

apologies. holler if you need anything. 😄

[true grail]

if he can say "youre just a crybaby complainer" to me, he could say it to them.
Its not a valid argument

[hard narwhal]

Hey guys, I'm not going to claim to understand the issue, as the materials guide is just giving the game information in a conformed space right?

But regardless, may we please keep things as calm as possible?
I understand tensions are getting high, and yes, Kahz is in charge of his own document, but if he needs to make changes, or something should be felt they need to be heard for accessaibilty needs, then please by all means send me a DM and I'm sure I can work with Kahz to find a good comproimse.

Otherwise please let's make sure if tensions get high, maybe take a breather, or cool off for a second.

[true grail]

Its not "accessibility" in terms of like social justice. So, nothing you need to worry about

im not addressing THAT kind of accessiblity

im speaking from a "this is hard to make sense of unless you understand and read all the disclaimers"

[remote cedar]

(Regardless of your debate), I'd like to see Ls and Cs instead of asterisks to know whether they're cloths or lining, like |CCL| instead of | * * * |, as it would help me to see directly what is the most opti clothing, it's just a suggestion nothing more

[latent lichen]

My understanding of the current system is that lining counts as two stars while cloth gets one star, to denote the number of independent counts of fibre involved.

[hard narwhal]

Which is an accessibility form in its most basic form.
However, this is his document and has been made this way since early access launch.

If he's open to suggestions, then by all means suggest them.
But in 8 months there's been no issues as far as I know, otherwise he'd add them.

I'm not saying you're doing one thing or another, but tensions are rising here, I can see it, and I'm asking people to take a second for a breather. This isn't an argument.

I don't want to instill time outs just because someone feels like they're not being heard, and lashing out, ya know?

[true grail]

This is an interesting suggestion, and leans into the difficulty of what @marble pier is talking about. In some cases, you can use cloth, lining, or durable cloth as an ingredient. so its hard to list things accurately.

my suggestion is to seperate the "possible materials" question from the "possible max stats" question.

by adding a column to improve readability

and then in the "notes column" list the max required of "duable cloth" to hit that max stat bonus

[latent lichen]

This other new community made tool is specifically about crafting inputs and is quite nice https://discord.com/channels/854679517997695016/1284318959142965248 although its also a work in progress so ymmv

[true grail]

Perhaps folks independently discover that their suggestions are met with resistance to the point they disengage? I dunno.

I thought suggestions or offering of help were encouraged, but im discovering that may not be the case.

its HIS doc, thats fine. i genuinely understand

Personally, i find it frustrating when someone says they are open to suggestions and collaborate efforts and then essentially shut down everything you say

[remote cedar]

OK, now I understand better why the account did not display the number of fibre slots nor the number of ‘possible layers’.

[hard narwhal]

I can't claim to speak for Kahz, nor his document, but in general they're fully welcomed pretty much everywhere in this discord.

I saw you asked for a tiers list, he agreed to look into editing it in (still going through the conversation)
So if there's something you want added, I'm sure he'd be willing to work with it, as long as it makes sense for others.

[true grail]

Ur good. i get why u showed up. Im just saying that i understand WHY you showed up, but that i dont think you can really do much about it, since we both know its HIS document and devs dont really own or are responsible for it

[hard narwhal]

And if not, send it to me, and I'll chit chat with him on your behalf to find a solution

[true grail]

Tiers list was not really debated against, just wanted something similar to how toosl ahve the "grade" column

My main issue was with how the "materials components" columns are confusing

[latent lichen]

Honestly it still pays to do your own sums on each (expensive) outfit you make anyway, because nobody is perfect and none of the tools are complete.

[true grail]

I tried making a few suggestions, but was met with some pretty flimsy counter arguments, which implied that the "open to suggestions" style claim wasnt really true

Which is FINE btw, i just didnt like being misled

[hard narwhal]

To be fair, the game itself is confusing on a few things, and with the wiki only being edited by 2 people with full time jobs, it's kind of hard to explain the complex mechanic in a google doc that's becoming to big.

But!
He's pretty willing to listen and compromise when/if it can be done, just gotta give him time to figure it out.
I could pin the suggestion so it's not lost if Kahz is willing to take a look into it

[true grail]

Yep, which i understand. WHich is why i was sharing my thoughts.

The issue isnt that he said "yeah, that would be hard to implement" it was that the coutner arguments were dismissive

[hard narwhal]

Heck, like I mentioned, I'll work with him to try and see if there's something better than the hover situation for folks 😄

[true grail]

My last reply to him was this :

My suggestion to add a "max stats possible" column was met with :
"ppl would complain"
"some stats arent available"
"the note already explains it"

#1 implies that other peoples complaints are valid, and mine are not.
#2 assumes that somehow the current format already allows for all possible stats? (it OF COURSE doesnt, so idk how this is a counter argument)
#3 you said yourself ppl dont read notes, and its extremely wordy and confusing

The takeaway here is that any critque or suggestion i make is going to be met with dismmissal by you

[remote cedar]

That's why I'm looking more for information on ‘how the crafting slots are’ than a hypothetical number of components to bring in (not to say that some people are more interested in this, I'm not making a general rule of my case)

[true grail]

Yeah, im trying to reason out a way to be more informative on that segment of the chart.

its complicated, but the first step is admmitting its suboptimal ATM

[hard narwhal]

And it's totally valid to feel that way for sure.

I see your points as well in the remarks made. Totally feels that way with the answers given for sure.
Doesn't help feeling ganged up on either I'm sure.

But, we can try to make it easier on others.
And both points have merit, but there's gotta be a compromise somewhere for ease of information. :3
We'll find it! I'm sure!

If the game lacks it, I'm sure there's something he could add to make notes of that.
The game lacks a bit in general 😛 , if it didn't, I wouldn't have my guide up on things being explained haha

[true grail]

IMO the solution is to seperate the "max stats possible" objective from the "materials possible/requrired"

I think the problem is trying to appeal to both objectives and then doing neither very well

HOW precisely we separate them, im not 10)% sure yet

My frustration stems from me saying "hey, we could od this better" and being told "No, actually we cant"

[nimble venture]

Probably already somewhere but didn't see it in the list. Non Advanced just lacks the Malef resist.

[hard narwhal]

If you can work out the how part, that it doesn't mess up to much, I'm sure he'd be more inclined to add it as it shows it can be done.
Instead of thinking it can't be with no solution. 🫂

[true grail]

I wasnt the one suggestion there is no solution. 🙃

Id love to spend a bunch of time doing data entry and adding clarifying details

[hard narwhal]

Wanna help me with the wiki then? T_T

😛

[true grail]

i rarely get on "the ground floor" in a game soon enough to be a part of the effort to building a wiki or anything

yeah

is it the one on fandom?

[remote cedar]

Are you making a wiki? I'd love to help

[true grail]

or wiki gg?

[hard narwhal]

It's the wiki GG one.
I don't want to take over Kahz's topic, but shoot me a DM and i'll toss info anyone's way

[remote cedar]

a wiki (or any ressources like the magcat) for a game like nightingale is essential (and I know what I'm talking about, I play path of exile xD )

[nimble venture]

T4 Feesh

T4 Hex Meat

T4 Feorrswine

[neon pumice]

@hard narwhal That is really cool how you have the Wiki gg page for Minor Realm Cards with the Day/Night photo's, love that 🙂

[marble pier]

Okie dokie, all fed and back, let's catch up

[hard narwhal]

I can't take credit for that, it was here when we found the site to take over haha.
But I hope one day the OG admins know how much you guys like it. ❤️

[neon pumice]

hah okay 🙂 is cool idea, knowingly what the realm would look like prior to using the card.

[latent lichen]

Do T4 infusions exist as a recipe or do we need to try and get drops of what we need?

[marble pier]

Just random drop afaik

[latent lichen]

OK that's bad for gearing but good that I'm not just blind 😄

[marble pier]

@remote cedar So with component types, are you seeking more of a calculator element, so you can find what specific materials each one takes, rather than the broader category?

[neon pumice]

Oh @hard narwhal , as for the ore/leather color materials, do you want me to post in here what material I used and a screenshot of the outfit it created to verify what color to add to the list wherever?

[hard narwhal]

OMG I'm a dingus, I thought you meant the main page, my brain ignored the minor realm cards part. I fully thank you for your compliment LOL

Please post it in the topic I made in the #1283758841275879455 area, so Kahz isn't overly crowded in here ❤️

[marble pier]

I can rename this to "community talk" if that helps? 😛

[neon pumice]

Ok, I appreciate you ❤️

I appreciate you both ❤️

Erm... do you want to start the topic for Colors? I dont see where.

[hard narwhal]

https://discord.com/channels/854679517997695016/1287210606960840756

[neon pumice]

Okies ty

[latent lichen]

@marble pier ideal augments for fishing rods - wouldn't berserker be a strong choice here? Fishing rod counts as a 2h slashing melee weapon afaik. You've got assassin listed which I believe is 1h only for damage, although it adds crit.

[marble pier]

It doesn't apply though, I've tested several times :/

Here's one I made with Excel. Beserker, with a T3 melee infusion

It should have 2x melee +++

😦

[latent lichen]

Ugh, that's very sad. Oh well.

[marble pier]

Yeh, I'm gonna report it, just haven't got around to it yet

[latent lichen]

Is there a realm minor that reduces the pain of the meat/fish -> animal fibre loop? I cant see one

[marble pier]

nopes

I'm a person that believes using meat shirts should cause as much pain as possible.

hehe

[robust dew]

yeah it feels very by design that all the easiest fibers to get are all survivability focused. Squeezing in that extra chunk of damage stat was always a nightmare

[latent lichen]

I should probably check if fish still makes a nice green silk look before i grind out 300 rare fish

[robust dew]

I don't mind it but it def makes it hurt when you realize you forgot an augment and now have to spend 6 hours farming harpy again

[robust dew]

Oh yeah post pics?

[latent lichen]

Of 0.3 or of now? I havent made anything this time around. Will post when I do if you like

[robust dew]

now

[latent lichen]

Given how the rest of 0.5 textures are going, its probably neon green striped with purple or something now

[robust dew]

I feel like most of the mats I've found are blotchy nonsense and I'm tired of looking like a mold spore

I finished my house in time for the contest so now I'm back to making shirts until I find a cool fabric

[latent lichen]

I'm not sure if the horrific blue is the fabled grendel or the khepris scarab. I'm assuming its the scarab.

[robust dew]

One of the leathers I found had like, a fluer de lis emboidery, I'll take a sxreenshot tomorroe

sorry, hand spasm but I think it's still legible

[latent lichen]

I honestly didn't even notice the typos and just read it fine. That blue burns my eyes. It's a blue from mspaint circa 1998

[robust dew]

Reminds me of gas station slushie

you got the blue rasberry cherry drip

[lunar girder]

I will test it to be sure, but do note that there currently is a bug of some infusions being invisible

When you go over a certain amount of infusion from augments, then during crafting it will show the correct stats, but the received item will be different.

But when you equip it the stats will update as the original item

Does indeed not apply.

Also, I might have misinterpeted the crafting guides, but infusion put on materials due to the minor realm cards (e.g. forge) don't pass on to the next crafted item?

So it has no use to spend time crafting all materials under the effect of the multiple minor effects?

And if that's the case, then why are there multiple realm cards in the ideal augments list?

[remote cedar]

When I craft gear, I look at all the categories (metal, hide, fiber etc..) to see which materials are interesting and list the best combination of ‘advanced components’ (gilbed wood, durable cloth etc..). Then I go, for example, through all the gloves and look at which then with the component type would give me the best stats (or the most balanced stats depending) once crafted. So knowing the component types is quicker for me than a number of material types.
But maybe most people do it the other way round, I don't know.

[marble pier]

I'm putting together a poll so folks can vote and just needing to assemble options, so it's good to know how you view it so I can make sure options exist for the votings, that way I can see all the things people value most

I've generally tried to avoid being "too specific" as I've found that gets somewhat problematic.
With the current columns those were pre-v0.5, before we had material slots that could be multiple types of refined items (let alone change categories), and that change has made things like Durable Cloth -significantly- more common since it could be in any cloth from that point

Even filling in the asterisks was annoying for me, 7x *'s isn't nice to count in a cell, I just dedicated the time to assemble as much data as I could rather than worry too much about reformatting.
I tend to address concerns as they rise, until people say something is an issue, I put the "design" side of things until I've got the time to do it.
Considering it's been raised, now is the time to do it 🙂
I've just gotta find the best method to present the information for the majority now heh

[molten sedge]

Would suggest having Textile items liste twice. Once for using Leathers, once for cloth.

[marble pier]

That's an option, to list "possible combinations" as a sortable criteria or inclusion. I can add things like the specific materials as notes to cells, though notes tend to get missed, which means I also need to be careful about how strict I make things, because as soon as exceptions come into play, then I need to list notes, and then people don't read notes and confusion arises, heh :/

[remote cedar]

"I just dedicated the time to assemble as much data as I could rather than worry too much about reformatting." I understand that, gathering materials' information is more of a priority now than redoing the presentation, because people come to look at the mat stats first.

[marble pier]

With Meals I did both the ingredient asterisk counting and a column for "unique ingredients possible" counter

So people could hunt for the higher combinations possible, and then use the asterisk count to get quick glance info of the kind of categories there are

[molten sedge]

I mean, realistically, the "best" way would be to just making a crafting simulator of sorts.

[remote cedar]

I'm afraid that listing the possible combinations will become harder and harder as updates are made if the game continues to become more complex

[marble pier]

That's a concern I've gotta account for too, future growth and complexity, especially if I start using scripts and cell languages

[remote cedar]

Like that? https://discord.com/channels/854679517997695016/1284318959142965248 not sure that fit the matcat

[marble pier]

Pre v0.5 I had an augment calculator page that run populating drop downs and clearance scripts, using 2 full other pages of just data assemblings

Google sheets is.. less friendly that than

Pulling information around gets really quite frustrating, heh

Lemme unhide the aug calc pages so you can see what I mean

[molten sedge]

Sort of, yeah. But simplfied a bit.

[marble pier]

When you're trying to populate cells with variable cells that have variable data.. it gets really difficult to sort things in Sheets, because data presented is done from a single cell, and trying to use any kind of "sorting" function just breaks it

[latent lichen]

I'd caution against trying to engineer anything that takes longer than an EA build iteration to create, given the fluidity in the crafting system still. The level of change we saw 0.2 to 0.3 and 0.3 to 0.5 was huge.

[marble pier]

If you take a look at the live matcat, at the far right / end of the pages are 3 unhidden ones from the pre v0.5 augment planner

That's the kinda detail I needed to present and hide just to show populating recipes from augments on workstations.
And you can't sort those recipes on the planner page

[latent lichen]

That's sort of the point where you need to step out of the sheet into Apps Script to do work then feed back into the sheet, right? ... at which point why use google sheets

[marble pier]

Yeh

And yeh, it kinda means why use sheets at all, heh

[latent lichen]

And it is gonna break on 5/10 browsers just because

[marble pier]

Sheets is just not friendly for handling information in that manner

It takes a lot of arguing, and then as soon as something changes, its hours of work

So I gotta balance that too heh

I've had to learn to be simpler XD

So my goal will be to find something as user friendly as possible, I don't mind if it takes work from my side, but it's gotta be able to grow and be functional and adaptable, and can't need a user manual XD
People don't read notes lol

[sleek niche]

If you want a user kinda friendly sheet. Law had previously made one in google-sheets.

Searchable DB sheet was good.

[marble pier]

I'll try to have the poll with a broad range of options out by tomorrow

[marble pier]

Noted, I will poke them and ask about it, ty

okay gonna hide these things again before people get confused XD

[latent lichen]

I do think it's worth trying to stay in google sheets just for pure accessibility to users, even though trying to fit the (current) complexity of the nightingale crafting system is a chore

[remote cedar]

It looks **very **practical 🥶 , google sheets with ifs and large amounts of column sums just looks like programming while wearing blinkers

[latent lichen]

I also think it's probably worth considering the scope of the matcat. There should be a line where you go "nah someone else can make that tool because it doesnt fit in the matcat purpose". You probably want to make that line explicit somewhere.

[marble pier]

Ya for sure, I don't plan on vacating sheets. I've told the wiki folks they can use the matcat however they want to help them on the path

And everyone can use whatevers here in whatever manner, the info is public usage, I don't own it, I just curate the document

[latent lichen]

I value having a searchable, well formatted, list of all the material values in one place without the ads and cruft of a wiki or shudder a youtube. Going to lazarus's calculator in another tab isn't a big deal. But also I'm not afraid of data tables, I know some people are.

[marble pier]

I'll think on this, I've basically been on that mentality for awhile, but I haven't put a hard written line down somewhere for others to see that this is just X

[latent lichen]

You don't want to end up trying to please everyone on everything, that way lies burnout and community departure. For purely selfish reasons I want you to keep curating the matcat 😉

[sleek niche]

#1283807346937565235 message

[marble pier]

Many thanks!

[marble pier]

So, when Puck quoted me my favorite midsummers line, I was 100% lost in this game, so I'll be here for a long time 🙂

And my commitment to the MatCat that I made upon creating it shall remain active 🙂

I must go feed my felines and myselfs, t'is dinner and I are the tireds, lots of brain workings today lol

Ty for chat and for the feedback as well, it's always valuable to know what people think and feel

[sleek niche]

Clothing Meele & Tank, share the same Augments.
On Excellent Sewing Bench

[molten sedge]

Found in Ascended Forest Realm - Large POI. Not currently listed in Ores.

[molten sedge]

How POI for it looks for reference.

[pine pebble]

😮 12%?!

[wispy parcel]

There's a channel for leaving feedback on that tool! 😊

[molten sedge]

Since im just out collecting materials atm, I'll just gonna leave notes to include in the location data.
Ascended Forest (Antiquarian) Caves: Gold, Titanium, Sapphire, Emerald, Diamond, Obsidian

[molten sedge]

Why are are the mushroom like T5s broken? 😦
Found in Ascended Antiquarian Swamp (the only T5 that seems to have spawned too, RIP)

[neon pumice]

The location tab seems to be missing, was there yesterday? Had Ore's in there and such.

[molten sedge]

Did you mean input one that's hidden? because Location Finder still exists, it's the third tab.

[marble pier]

So many people kept using the data page instead of the actual Finder page, and then are confused when there's nothing explaining the keys and such (because those are on the actual finder and not the admin data page), I'm just gonna keep the data page hidden, and only unhide when I go to input things.

So that's why the data tab is hidden 🙂

[neon pumice]

wait lol.. so brain isnt on yet 930am almost 🙂 so If I want to find out what realm Titanium is in, where would I find it, I would think I would go to the Ores page.

[marble pier]

You go to the Locations Finder page

[neon pumice]

But there are 16 flower items on that page only

[molten sedge]

I think the unfortunate thing with that is it only works as intended when making a copy, unless you were to make it open edit, and just protect everything.

[marble pier]

Surprisingly.. not that easy.. sheets is not friendly for selective permissions

Have done -lots- of arguements with it over this very issue, the only one that actually works is make a copy

[marble pier]

Does y'see the Hover Mouse Here cell?

[neon pumice]

Im not seeing something or doing something right

Ya mouseover is fine

[marble pier]

yep

Now reads

😄

[neon pumice]

so that thing is a filter?

[marble pier]

Yes, once you save a copy you can use the dropdown menus, which let you select biome / category

[neon pumice]

jeesus

not good at this stuff sadly 😦

problem here is, having a copy will never be updated

[marble pier]

Basically if I want to stop something being edited either unintentionally or maliciously, it also shuts down allowing people to use dropdown menus, and the only way I'm comfortable to give access to large groups of unrestricted people to edit things is for them to make a copy locally.
I wish I could do it differently, I've spent unmeasurable time arguing with the settings for this

[neon pumice]

and the info I was looking for wasnt on there anyway lol

[sleek niche]

Lacanus Advanced, Duantless Axe, doing a measly 1k crits.

[neon pumice]

seems like a lot of effort to do a dropdown system like this.. why not just put the location right on the the tab/item it is on?

[sleek niche]

even though materials/resources are tied to Realms & not Realm-power. it still comes out as a lot of them.

[marble pier]

.. yeh

It's a lot of data

[neon pumice]

personally, if I want to know where titanium is from, Id goto your ore tab, find it, check out the stats, scroll over to where it is from and carry on

[marble pier]

And I had a lot of requests from people to make the Finder so they could search for things on a single tab, etc

[sleek niche]

6 Story Biomes Hand-Crafted

3 biomes (desert, forest, swamp)
6 Major Cards ( Antiquarian, Astrolabe, Provisoner, Herbarium, Gloom, Hunt) + 6 of ascended of the same.

42 Combinations, exluding the Realm-Power.

[marble pier]

I had both active for quite awhile

And people kept being confused by the one on the individual pages

[neon pumice]

the dropdown data where it comes from can pull from those main fields of the data it originated from

otherwise just way too much work

and if you dont want a "filter" tab anymore, you can just blow it up without deleting any data

but right now if you want to find anything, you have to download a copy each time if you want the latest update

[marble pier]

That's what you'll have'ta do.

[neon pumice]

yea

[marble pier]

Once we get past this initial stage of the MatCat and v0.5, you will generally only need to update the copy a couple days after a game update lands, the thing taking time atm is just assembling all the IG data again.

Historically I've had the MatCat fully updated within 2-3 days of an update

Will get there, now that you know the process, you will find it's not difficult, and there's lots of Filter arrows on all the other pages for easy column sorting that unlock when you make a copy

It's just a thing with sheets not being a full living website, it doesn't update the same way if you want interactivity

[molten sedge]

Just location data, but Losrewn and Awenite are also avaiable in Ascended Astrolabe Deserts. Same POI.

Star Rubies are here as well it seems. (their own POI tho)

[molten sedge]

Also is it just me or are there never more than 2 T5 POIs in a realm? Seems super limited for no reason.

Not sure where this came from, probably a chest or something.

[marble pier]

I don't mind it, it inspires people to explore more Untamed Realms

But I'm certain I've seen more than 2

Though nowhere near the old like.. 5-6

[molten sedge]

It does, but at the same time, it makes them feel pretty empty in terms of desirable materials.

[marble pier]

What we need is more things

😄

[molten sedge]

Oh, I know where that ingot came from, it was just one of those small POI that have single resource laying around.

Same with this too.

Figures, I say that and immediately find a realm with 3.

grnted, the third one was Lumi Spores, so it's effctively not a 3rd one at all atm 🤣

[marble pier]

They'll get stats soon, no doubt. Always worth collecting whilst you can

[molten sedge]

More than likely.

though for as many swamps as I;ve been through now, I've yet to see another Geist Shroom or even Titan Nail at all.

[spark belfry]

Found T5 Plant Fibre (Britomart's Locks) in Ascended Antiquarian Desert

[molten sedge]

Found in Ascended Astrolabe Forest

game seems to classify it as a Berry

[marble pier]

yer

[neon pumice]

Omg @marble pier I found the Noble Bismaltus! It is in Ascended Astrolabe after all. Looks like an Einaidia ore pillar. 🤩 Is 100 skill.

[molten sedge]

I also just recently found that too. Honestly out of the three similar POIs, that's the best one too. Easy to get all the ores. Einaida is the worst 😦

[molten sedge]

Finishing off the ranged weapon stats.

[lusty fulcrum]

Noble Bismaltus, Noble Hollow, & Einaidia are all found in Ascended Antiquarian Forest realms.

[molten sedge]

@marble pier T4 Bound fibre from this message still missing from sheet.

[remote cedar]

just to confirm, if I place two augments in different tiers, theirs item buff do not stack? I've seen quite a few people say that it does, they are both displayed in the ‘station traits’ tab, but I did a quick test and I don't think it works.

[nimble venture]

For making clothing and tools yes, for refinement, no.

If I reset an untamed realm, I get a whole new map, right? Found a poi for an endgame ore and was hoping for a way to farm it.

[remote cedar]

Thanks, for the poi farming, try to find it in a story realm, I've done it with einadia and star ruby

[nimble venture]

It's noble Bismuth

[molten sedge]

Yeah reset is a new realm. the farm is RNG. Definitely worth getting a Forge card down for it too

[flint briar]

Hey please, what mean " ascended" ? I'm looking for gold in the google sheet, and it's in a " ascended " what is this please ?

[molten sedge]

the realms you get access to after the watch.

[nimble venture]

It means T4 endgame realms

[flint briar]

the dungeon things?

[molten sedge]

No

They're harder version of Untamed Realms

[flint briar]

the one I have to buy on traders ?

[molten sedge]

yeah, the ones sold by the Watch Vendor

[flint briar]

Ok perfect thank you 😄 !

[robust dew]

the only valid criticism I have against the sheet rn is having to save a copy to access the full list of location finder info is that it becomes a more involved process than using the Discord search or just asking general chat, and since the "data" tab is hidden I'm just going to do that going forward since my tiny damaged peanut brain has to relearn how to use google spreadsheets every time I try to use them

This will likely be less of an issue when it's completed tho

[molten sedge]

Materials from T2 Antiquarian Swamp Fable Hunts

Misc. T2 Antiquarian Swamp Fabled Drops

Abalonite was also sighted there during the Hunt, so it appears in Untamed Antiquarian Swamps

[molten sedge]

Spoils of Fabled Hunts of Untamed Antiquarian Forest.
Deathweaver is a random drop.
Zinc, Magnesium, Coal, Amber, Sulphur, and Shimmering Found in Caves there.

[molten sedge]

Untamed Antiquarian Desert Time. Much smaller list of stuff since the fabled Meats are already covered.

Automaton Knight Heart is considered a Focal Shard

Cave are the same as Forest above. Node for Awenite & Losrewn also Spotted.

[hollow lagoon]

I assume no more reclaimed lumber and ingots?

[molten sedge]

nope

they're gone

[hollow lagoon]

Loved using it to double building materials 😦

[molten sedge]

feesh

[tawdry crag]

Is tier 4 the highest on fabled creatures?

[nimble venture]

Yeah other than Humbaba from the vault.

Actually thats just the meat.

Ok min maxing question, looking at the Tier 4 coats I got 7 mats for all them except Sage's coat which has 8. Someone was telling me the matron dress has higher? Am I missing something because I calced it at 7?

[nimble venture]

Since I don't see it on THE LIST.

[latent lichen]

I cant get the finder page to work. I did mention it earlier, when I look at the sheets none of the categories are changeable. I assume they're meant to be drop downs, but don't. I'm using firefox and the only thing I can think is that its a browser issue, or permissions issue. NVM, read the rest of the backlog

[hard narwhal]

You need to make a copy of it to utilize the finder as a whole

[fair nacelle]

I did a bunch of testing today to see exactly how the forge card works with and without augments. It doesn't add buffs to the final item. This is easily demonstrated by crafting two tools without any augments, one with the forge card at every step, and another without the forge card at all. They will have identical final stats. I tested this with mystic rifles and knives. Whether the bonus is supposed to apply to intermediate components or not, it doesn't actually do anything right now (except possibly reduce ingot production time).

[nimble venture]

Good to know, I'll suspend work on forge world Gamma Omnicron 217 immediately.

[latent lichen]

Has anything ever applied buffs to components? AFAIK all augments and realm card stat buffs only apply to crafted final items - ie workbench and sewing table exclusively. Yield applies to components though of course.

Forge not buffing final item actual stats is bad news.

[fair nacelle]

Augments refer to “crafted tools”. Forge refers to “refined metal items”. That would seem to indicate that the intent is that it does apply to components. The other consideration is that an additive bonus of 2% of the base tool damage probably isn’t worth either setting up another crafting location in a different realm or changing realm cards all the time. That’s maybe 10 damage for most tools. I don’t feel like it’s particularly worth the hassle unless I can stack that more than once through using it on components. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[latent lichen]

I havent seen "item" used to mean anything other than "equippable item" elsewhere in the game, so that may be too broad an interpretation.

Fair call on not bothering with the single +'s from forge if you don't feel its worth it.

[true grail]

I have observed the same behavior regarding the buff from "forge" not translating to the next item in the craft, even if "forge" is still active. I believe applying the bonus to components that is included in the final craft is the intent.

I believe this is a bug. Someone posted already, upvote if you can :
https://playnightingale.ideas.aha.io/ideas/RRBUG-I-521

[fair nacelle]

I upvoted and left a clarifying comment. It only has 3 votes, probably because anyone who is going to use a forge card is also going to use augments which makes it harder to realize something is wrong.

I only realized it because I was running the numbers to find the best material combos and the math wasn’t matching the in-game results.

As an aside, the conventional wisdom that all pursuit is always better on range weapons isn’t quite accurate. For example, using one piece of einadia on a mystic bolt-action rifle is a roughly 4% increase over all pursuit.

[topaz spruce]

am i stupid or bones have not been added to the spreadsheet yet? I went to Meat & Bone Ingredients but all I see are fish and meat

[nimble venture]

Meat and Bones have the same stats

[true grail]

Are you factoring high base crit chance ranged weapons?
Crit damage can be a big dmg factor against bosses with very large crit hitboxes.

I havent done a deep dive comparing raw base dmg vs max crit vs a mix of both, but its likely worth considering

aka. einadia vs pursuit vs combo

[wicked sedge]

not sure if it is useful to anyone, and im sure its a bug, but while having 500+% poison resistance in a blood moon apogean fae vault, i regenerate health while poisoned

tested on a normal realm and poison dealt damage normally, so it seems to have something to do with the blood moon apogean card

[true grail]

How did you play a Blood Moon Apogean minor card inside a fae vault?

[fair nacelle]

You can build a realm card machine inside a vault.

[flint briar]

@marble pier
Hello CHIEF !
I noticed that it's possible to limit the number of workbenches and textile stations needed.

In this image, I highlighted in red/pink the workbenches I was able to reuse elsewhere. To better visualize this, I sorted the augments alphabetically and saw that some only use three. Considering we're limited to four augments in Tier 3, the fourth bonus that gets added doesn’t reduce the final product.

For example, umbrellas, lanterns, knives, and hammers all use at least Assassin, Construction, and Magick. The Victorian Dandy augment only affects umbrellas, so you can fit all four in the same workbench, saving space.

I built a base, and I have a total of 11 workstations, with an area for the rest (like the kitchen, sawmill, etc.), each with their own buffs that fit perfectly together. This results in a total of 12 workstation zones (with 11 zones fitting on a single foundation).

If anyone wants to super-optimize their base (like me, lol), I think this information would be super useful 🙂

[fair nacelle]

So is the plan that you're going to change your realm card constantly, sometimes multiple times during the same craft, to reduce the number of workstations you need?

[flint briar]

Uh, you mean the minor card, not the entire realm, right?
Actually, it depends on the item you want to craft. If you want to make a lantern that gives you better magic stats, you'd use the Alchemy card before using the workstation. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, I don’t speak English very well.

What I was suggesting is that, on the same workstation, it would be possible to craft both umbrellas and lanterns (like in my example) since they use the same augments. The only thing that changes is the minor card to use 😮

[fair nacelle]

That's what I thought. Did that my first time. Found that I didn't always remember to change the minor card at the right time and that it was much easier to set up workspaces in different realms based on the minor card.

[flint briar]

wait, just to be sure, you know you can much easier change the minor card ?
and you can build this item in your base ( see picture) to do it 😮

[sleek niche]

You can build a lot of them. Can be placed indoors, beside every bench

[sleek niche]

In the three corners of my square base.

I have Respite, Ledostar, Realmic Transmitter

4th space is empty for now.

[fair nacelle]

Let’s say I’m making a hammer. I’m going to want to refine the lumber and produce the handle with a Lumber Mill card. I’m going to want to use the Quarry card to cut the gem. I’m going to want to use the Industry card to refine the ingots and craft the metal components, although Forge would be better for the components of it actually worked. Then maybe switch again for the final assembly.

I find it so much easier to keep track when i don’t have to change anything.

[sleek niche]

You see, with the card active, don't just refine one item (ingot, lumber, thread, etc) and be done

Refine 50 atleast

[fair nacelle]

Arguments that boil down to “it’s not as bad if you play this specific way” don’t sway me because changing things back and forth is never as simple as just walking through a portal where everything is already set up. I like simple.

The other piece of this is that you typically want to be using T5 mats when you have enough to make the thing. I’m not going to run the forest vault 10 times to make 50 lumber when I could run it once and have enough for a weapon or two.

[sleek niche]

A portal takes 5min for me.
A Realmic card change on Abeyance costs 10sec

[molten sedge]

FWIW crafting individual pieces isn't going to be worth it unless you have a 2x on output, otherwisee you'll miss out on any potential extras.

Forge itself only applies at the Ore -> Ingot step anyways. So you pop it on, make a bunch ores for current/future crafts, then never think about it again

[fair nacelle]

1. 2x output is easy to achieve. Industry/Lumber/Quarry + relevant augments.

2. Forge adds stats to refined metal items and reduces the time to refine ore. If it wasn’t bugged, you should be using it for crafting any metal components.

3. When it comes to ingots, your output bonus is a % chance per Ingot to get an extra so it doesn’t matter how many or few you craft at once. RNG is RNG.

4. With the exception of Pursuit, what ores am I gonna have a bunch of that I’m actually going to use in making tools or clothing? I can’t just walk around for 5 minutes and have hundreds of Einadia or Titan’s. Ores I’m going to have in bulk are going to be used for building and ammunition, and again it’s much simpler to walk into my industry realm, refine hundreds of ingots and round, and leave them in the Pepys box.

5. Losing a couple minutes for realm shifts when making end game items is a lot less hassle than recollecting materials when you forget to change the card at the right time. Ask me how I know this.

[molten sedge]

1+3. This is true for sure, but having 2x Guarantees it and makes your mats go further.

2. Honestly not sure if it's a bug, maybe just wording error. Considering some craft would easily get 10%+ of a stat from a single piece of its building process.

3. Depends on your build. Einaida is pretty good for ranged builds too. 12% Ranged (14 with forge) is pretty hard to pass up in a lot of cases. Most guns don't really have the Crit Multi to make it typically worth taking Pursuit over Ainaida, Mystic Longbow is the only exception to this imo.

Would have to do the math again honestly, but it was barely worth using Bronze for one piece of a Dagger over Bismaltus for a comparison.

5.Yeah, I know. Some things are a pain to find.

[fair nacelle]

Forge is bugged. It’s supposed to add 2% damage, crit, and a few other stats to “refined metal items”. It shows this on intermediate components, but does not stack when there are multiple steps. The not stacking part may or may not be intended. The bug is that the final craft does not get any bonus whatsoever from Forge regardless of whether any components had a Forge bonus. Tested that extensively yesterday.

Einadia vs Pursuit: All Pursuit is almost always better for bossing. A few weapons with high base crit like the mystic bolt action rifle benefit from having one piece of Einadia.

Einadia is better for mobbing because it’s harder to land crits while being swarmed, but magic and/or melee are better choices for that.

The best dagger has a base melee damage of 122. Nothing is going to make that useful. However, you can stack magic on a dagger/off-hand and get really solid spell damage.

Not accidentally wasting hard to find mats plus making sure I stretch them further with output bonuses is why I use multiple realms. For example, making a T5 stock with Lumber Mill, I get extra pieces of lumber from refining bundles, extra gilded lumber when I add the ingot, extra poles, and extra stocks. One forest vault run goes a lot further.

[sleek niche]

Is the Settler Apogen card not in game ?

[fair nacelle]

You buy the recipe at the watch

[sleek niche]

What is the effect of it ?

As it was broken buff on 0.3, lumber mill + forge + quarry. All in one.

[fair nacelle]

It got super nerfed though. Still useful for base building but Industry/Forge/Lumber Mill/Quarry/Greenhouse/etc. are generally better.

It’s the same as settler eminent with a 1.4 multiplier instead of 1.3.

[sleek niche]

Lumber mill increases the wood received by Chopping?

[fair nacelle]

Lumber Mill also increases the output of all wood crafting.

[molten sedge]

The best dagger has a base melee damage of 122. Nothing is going to make that useful.
I mean, My partner shredded bosses on a Knife build. They were pretty consistently getting 40k+ hits even in base T3 gear. Charms make them quite a bit stronger than you'd think.

[fair nacelle]

What stops you from doing the same with a higher damage melee weapon?

[sleek niche]

Charm of mercy on 'less than 5% hp' Jana did 32million DMG at 0.3.1 with a knife

[molten sedge]

Way lower Crit Multi, No Backstab, General lack of damage boosting charms compared to 1Handers

[fair nacelle]

Charm of Mercy kills anything below 5% hp, Yes? Why does the damage number matter?

[fair nacelle]

I’m about to start doing a melee build, so I’ll play with it. How hard is it to land crits on bosses with a knife? Seems like there’d be an issue with reach.

[molten sedge]

Backstabs count for them iirc.

[fair nacelle]

So basically either they’re locked in an animation or someone else has to have aggro?

[molten sedge]

With the exception of bosses, you never have issues hitting weakpoints most of the time anyways.

But yeah, that's why I was running a tankier build to support them.

[fair nacelle]

As difficulty no longer affects mat drops, Bossing is my main concern. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[inland jetty]

That's a loaded statement though, because it does technically affect mat drops

It just does it in a different way

[fair nacelle]

If I’m on an ascended realm, it doesn’t matter whether the difficulty is 67 or 220, I’m still getting T4 drops. It just takes a longer to kill anything on 220.

[inland jetty]

Oh I see what you're saying

I was focused on the tiers, not the realm scaling

[marble pier]

Okay I'm awake now, slept for 21 hrs, just finished putting everything posted in, ty everyone

Now to read everything not an image lol

[nimble venture]

Ok the whole Forge card Ore -> Ingot thing. I'm not sure that it even applies there. I have a partially done forge world I was setting up for tool making and I tested some ore smelting once I got the smelter and T2 augment up and running and I got the same numbers I get in my home realm. I have a crackpot theory that no speed or yield bonus's ever stack (aside from ammo making for some reason)

[molten sedge]

Forge definitely does affect ingot creation. But no you're not going to be able to stack it with Etched/Alloy Ingots if that what you hoped.

[remote cedar]

It's not apply, when you make a component with a boosted part it disappears, it just work for tool/weapon craft not part/component
edit : were you talking about the production bonus? I misunderstood, I thought you were talking about the stat bonus.

[nimble venture]

Why would I use Etched ingots? And my smelter with a T2 aug was still giving me 3 for 2, 6 for 4, and 8 for 6. So I wasn't getting any extra over my home with a t2 aug. And I made all the metal pieces for one of my tools in the forge and none of them had any extra stats.

After reading the guy statement yesterday about it not working for finished tools, I halted production of my forge world setup (Workbench and compliment of augs.)

[molten sedge]

This is the bug you're looking for. It stops applying the bonus stat for some parts, like hilts, etc. but stays for others.

It it however always present when you make the initial ingot.

[nimble venture]

Didn't see the bonus stats on the copper I took in there to numbers test.

[true grail]

brilliant!

[molten sedge]

Here's some examples of ingots with and without Forge active.

[remote cedar]

I made all my component containing metal with a forge card enable, only weapon/tool have the +2% crit/dmg, it doesn't stack and the rest don't keep it

[molten sedge]

It only boost stats that are present on the ingot.

[remote cedar]

it's just visual you can't make any componant with the boost

[marble pier]

Yeh, because those are the things that Forge Card does, that's the + heh

[molten sedge]

It;s the components that are broken, not the card.

[fair nacelle]

I tested this yesterday. The final tool completely ignores the forge card altogether.

[molten sedge]

If it were visual as you say, why would it even carry over to Fasteners?

[remote cedar]

okay I try to make fasteners with 8/8 and 6/6 et result with 8/8

[fair nacelle]

Because it’s intended to do something. The problem is that it doesn’t actually work because of something wrong with the code.

[nimble venture]

Ok loaded up my game and yeah I see now the copper I made has 2% more ranged damage.

[fair nacelle]

It’s probably related to leftover code intended to prevent folding. My guess is that there’s a piece of code that uses the base stats of the materials instead of the boosted values.

[nimble venture]

But yeah it looks like using already made ingots gives me nothing.

[molten sedge]

It sure doesn't care how much damage you stack via cloths/leathers apparently.

[fair nacelle]

I haven’t checked for any infinite loops on cloth or leather with reinforced or durable items, but it’s also a somewhat self limiting problem. You can’t get T4/5 fabled drops nearly as fast as you can mine some pursuit.

[nimble venture]

Looks like I'll be rebuilding my maul again.

[molten sedge]

Dont bother tbh. Like other have said the stats won;t get applied to the final craft.

[nimble venture]

Well I can make new ingots out of Noble bismuth (now that I have a small supply of the stuff) and those will be better.

[molten sedge]

weird bugs are weird though. Hard to say exactly what the cause is. Though I think it's either a flag on the material not being set or carrying over, or some other weirdness.

[nimble venture]

Wonder if the Lumber Mill does the same thing? I might need to set up a lumber world in the future. At least until we can use forged handles in crafts that require handles.

[fair nacelle]

Lumber Mill does do the same thing, but it’s still amazing because it increases the yields of all the components in the chain.

[nimble venture]

Pretty sure I'm already getting the most I can get with rounding error abuse (make 1, get 2)

[fair nacelle]

Didn’t test that thoroughly. I just set up my saw bench on a Lumber Mill realm with all the appropriate augments to make sure I got the best results I possibly could.

My experience with ingots is that those are RNG

[nimble venture]

Well I already melted down most of my ore into ingots but I do keep most of my wood in unprocessed form.

[subtle stream]

do we leave 'things i wish i knew' here too ?

[molten sedge]

I think the only thing I;ve seen consistently boost is Lumber. Cloth/Metal/Leather all seem inconsistent at best.

[remote cedar]

I thinks it's a chance for double production, an yield of 1.4 gives 40% of double the number (ingot per ingot ) of ingot but you need to do some tests

[nimble venture]

It rounds. .4 or lower it ronds down. .6 or higher it rounds up.

Why with a 1.4 mult making 2 items gives you a 3rd.

[molten sedge]

It doesn't round up, otherwise Cloth wouldn't be RNG either.

[nimble venture]

Cloth isn't RNG for me. Thread and twine don't produce extra but things made from them do. With a T3 tailor aug I make 1, get 2.

[remote cedar]

one of the two has been doubled

[nimble venture]

I'm making 1 item. I get 1.6 of the item so the game rounds that up to 2.

[remote cedar]

are you really sure, on how many trials you tested?

[molten sedge]

It's been RNG for me regardless of what I try. One at a time, multiple.

Tbh, for consistency sake it should be a chance for single items, but for bulk crafting it should just be a flat multiplier to the output.

[fair nacelle]

Ingots with an Industry card (1.5x) and two augments (1.2x and 1.4x) gives me wildly varying results sometimes approaching 2x and sometimes slightly less than 1.5x. Ingots are RNG.

Components may not be RNG. I’ll test tonight.

[nimble venture]

Gonna say run some tests using crude fiber, I assume like most playeres you have $TEXAS of the stuff.

twine and thread do not get boosted. Things made from thread (and I think twine, haven't used that stuff in forever) do.

[remote cedar]

if someone wants to test this rigorously I made a guide for that
https://discord.com/channels/854679517997695016/1286387063481958500

[nimble venture]

I mean the short version at least for 1.4 and 1.6 boosts are for 1.4 Make 2 or 4 of them item, They give 3 and 6 respectively. Any more and you 'lose' extras. For 1.6 make things 1 at a time and you get 2 each go round. For a T1 is should be make 3 to get 4.

And yield bonuses do not stack (except for the ammo makers for some reason, which also the Cannon is bugged and giving 200% more instead of 60% more)

When you make something If it's below 1.5 (assuming 5 since thats been the general rule for rounding stuff all my life even though we can only go in even multiples) then it rounds down if it's .5 or higher, it rounds up to an extra one. Two ingots made with a 1.4 mult = 2.8 so you get 3.

And a quick test shows twine items do not boost, just things made from thread or higher (Cloth, lining, D Cloth)

[flint briar]

Actually looking for Einaidia.
What mean "Large point of interest " ? please .
And before I go for it, how much my pickaxe need to be scored please ?

[nimble venture]

I found Enchilada ore in the Cradle.

[molten sedge]

It's a large and easier to spot POI

[nimble venture]

100 to harvest T5.

[molten sedge]

It will only show the bonus after it finishes

[fair nacelle]

If Yield bonuses truly don’t stack, that makes augments on many refining stations pointless. Sigh.

[remote cedar]

it's not the point

[flint briar]

Ok thank, now I have to understund the SPOT POI XD

[nimble venture]

In fact multiple yield augments makes it take the lowest.

[remote cedar]

I craft only 1 thread

[nimble venture]

THREAD IS NOT BOOSTED. THREAD PRODUCTS ARE.

Take two thread. Make 1 cloth with a t3 aug, you will get 2.

[nimble venture]

In fact if you have multiple yield boosters it takes the lowest it seems. Did testing on my sawmill. Only exception is ammo crafting for some reason.

[fair nacelle]

T3 pickaxe made with T3 materials, 3 enchantments, a T3 infusion but NOT a charm will be over 100.

[nimble venture]

In fact on the thread thing reading the tailoring aug says textile and thread products.

Textile technically includes leather and felt but you can't apply the tailoring aug to a tanner station.

[remote cedar]

It doesn't make any sense, it means that doing 20 x 1 craft gives more result than doing a pack of 20,

[nimble venture]

Do you know what the term 'rounding error' means?

[fair nacelle]

That can’t be true across the board because I’ve gotten rates higher than 1.5 on ingots.

[nimble venture]

¿

Gonna need some numbers there.

[remote cedar]

you didn't understand what I meant by ‘it doesn't make sense', I'm talking in terms of gameplay, but yes, I think I know pretty well what a rounding error is

[nimble venture]

I understand perfectly. What I'm doing is technically gaming the system.

[fair nacelle]

I did a run of 78 pursuit ore which is 39 ingots without multiplier. Actual result was 59 (which is 1.5x). Did another run of 200 zinc (100 ingot base) and got 126.

[nimble venture]

That with a T2 aug on the smelter?

[fair nacelle]

Industry + T1 + T2 for both runs

[nimble venture]

Ok I haven't unlocked Industry yet (need to go back and farm a LOT of T3 essence)

If you got the ore to burn, mind running the 39 test again with just a T2 and Industry?

[fair nacelle]

Yup. What might be happening is that generally the industry overwrites everything else, but because I wasn’t in the realm most of the while the zinc was processing, it didn’t count the industry card.

[nimble venture]

Because the Zinc is coming out to a 1.26 mutlpler (the ore count doesn't matter but 100 ingots in one go does)

Based on my other testing (using the saw mill since it has all 3 tiers of augments) it seems to take the lowest for yield boost.

Granted my goal is to find "What the lowest amount of input I can feed to get the most extra output.

[fair nacelle]

Be interesting to test with Lumber Mill active.

[nimble venture]

I really don't think Lumber Mill is going to push the output past the "breakpoint" you get with a T3 carving.

[fair nacelle]

No, but testing would establish whether it takes precedence over the lower tier augments.

[nimble venture]

Well I do have 300+ unprocessed basic logs I could turn into lumber.

[fair nacelle]

Honestly I think they need a statistician and a UI/UX designer to come in and completely overhaul materials and crafting.

[nimble venture]

Math done by Scott Stiener. I've seen MUCH MUCH worse. Mostly Secret World Legends for the first few years of it's reboot.

[fair nacelle]

We don’t talk about Legends. 🤣

[nimble venture]

Yeah I know massive step back form the original. I think I might rip up my old garden at my house and convert the balcony to fit more portals. I don't exactly have a lot of space to work with on this rock.

[fair nacelle]

Like with guns, I want interesting choices. Not just Einadia vs Pursuit. Like if copper had decent range damage and also boosted poison anmo or cobalt boosted ranged and ice ammo. Or if magic boosted elemental ammo enough to make up for the loss of range.

[woven wing]

how can i make sashimi now without deboned fish?

[true grail]

Catching up on your and @fair nacelle's findings...

Are you saying that if you have a T3 and a T2 augment present, the bonuses DONT stack, and possibly the lower of the two is the applied bonus?

[fair nacelle]

That’s what we’re saying

[nimble venture]

Things like that might be bigger than the scope of the game. And even then the number autists are going to find the 'best' option. Like I'd like to see the generic pred/prey/bug meat gone and make all things give a unique version (lower stats than fabled)

[nimble venture]

Yes. Or they stack in a wierd way like I said my goal to find the best input:output ratio and thats low numbers.

[true grail]

yeah... i did the "cloth test" you mentioned and only got 1 with coatrack and sewing kit... deleted coat rack and got 2 for 1

[latent lichen]

One of the mult's being a % chance to mult would explain a lot of the variability I see

[fair nacelle]

The “best” option on a spreadsheet isn’t necessarily the best option in practice

[nimble venture]

The only exception appears to be ammo crafting.

[true grail]

ive been missing out BIG TIME on fabled humbaba cloth

[nimble venture]

There is no chance to multi. It's rounding pure and simple.

[true grail]

well, 1.2x and 1.6x were resulting in 1.2x

bc it picked lower of two augs

[flint briar]

I have a pickaxe over 100. But does POI mean the things like caves ?

[nimble venture]

No it means the big wierd pillars (they generally hum)

[latent lichen]

I'm talking about where I get different mults from running the same craft different times. It's either something is a proc, or each time the realm loads you get a chance to have one or more augments or card effects bug out.

[fair nacelle]

Means things like the einadia spires or hoe fly nests

[nimble venture]

I get the same results every time. I make X, I get Y.

[nimble venture]

Don't need deboned fish, its just regular fish now

[woven wing]

thank you very much

[remote cedar]

I saw someone say that the nearest augment structure had priority, but I don't know if that's true.

[nimble venture]

It is not.

[latent lichen]

I've had that work on my sewing tables. Sometimes.

[molten sedge]

an an example, this is the POI for Hollow Metal (Einadia is very similar in appearance)

#1283807346937565235 message

[nimble venture]

My sewing kit is pretty much touching the textile station, I put the coatrack a few feet away. Coat rack takes priority.

[flint briar]

so the point of interest is visual, it's not the marks I see on map right ? 😮

[nimble venture]

Correct

[flint briar]

God dayum ! Thank you all !

[nimble venture]

On the upside in story realms they're always in the same spot and the Cradle has Enchilada ore.

[latent lichen]

these two are currently tailor/magick/explorer + either western or berserker

[nimble venture]

Yeah I stopped doing that and cram my not being actively used augments under the stairs for final products at this point. too much of a mess.

[latent lichen]

Yeah I just moved the berserker/western in here to test this. They normally live in a shed outside 😄 Point is, something about proximity is affecting which augment is applied to which station.

[nimble venture]

Well the test I did was on textile which only takes tailor and science.

[latent lichen]

I would not be surprised at all to find different augment combos and different augment/station combos have different behaviours.

[fair nacelle]

I find the augments a giant hassle and set up multiple workstations with the various combinations I need.

[nimble venture]

Made 2 thread. Sewing kit is practyically touching the station. Coat rack is near max distance to still count. 2 thread become 1 cloth.

Still less of a hassle than pre RR.

[latent lichen]

That sounds like the "apply lowest" problem, not augment proximity?

[nimble venture]

Yeah which is what I was saying. For refinement you want the best one you have. (Other than ammo) for finished products, multiple can stack.

[fair nacelle]

They also removed half the augments.

[latent lichen]

I think proximity only comes into play when you have >station slots of augments.

[nimble venture]

Well I guess ammo is technically a finished product. Maybe thats why they stack.

[latent lichen]

Just noticed all the t1 augments sitting lonely on the street outside crafting buildings, banished for reducing multipliers 🤣

[nimble venture]

Well the coat rack gets to come back for making clothing.

Also something I noticed puttering around making grenades to never use the other day is some augments show their adjustment right there in the final result.

Like making some mystic nades with a dummy nearby showed 2 crit on the final product. I haul it away, it vanishes.

[molten sedge]

from what i noticed, it tends to prioritze what ever is placed near it first. Distance is only when you place it down with more augments than slots, then it just takes the nearest X Augments or something like that.

[deft light]

Augments should just be infusions/gems or w/e that you add permanently to a station with no limit. As it is now, it's just a hassle, doesn't add difficulty to the game whatsoever. The current augments should be transformed into structures for vanity' sakes.

[remote cedar]

I quite agree, the augment system adds more tedium than complexity

[nimble venture]

Would result in something they probably don't want Nate. When my Workbench has every possible augment It is going to give me even more power level than my pick 4. Especially for clothing.

Since I want HP/Melee/Resists on my clothing (Maul tank) but I need Illegal Wizardry to boost my tanking (roar, shield) so I need to get in some magic. So I need to pick 4 right now.

[slender plank]

Newbie here...does the iron ore needs 50 GS now?

[molten sedge]

Yeah, it's T3.

[true grail]

Yes, it appears to be first in- first out

[slender plank]

My Orante pickaxe is 40 while in Swamp T3, what can I change to reach 50?

*Ornate

[molten sedge]

Add an Enchanment or Infusion if any are missing

[remote cedar]

add an infusion and spells, but above all no charm

[fair nacelle]

Higher level infusions add more score

[slender plank]

tyvm, that was it

damn the augment system is complicated. I feel that every worktable need its own augment combo

[remote cedar]

yes, I'd love to be able to tick which augment you want on the fly, rather than having to do more setup or move everything all the time.

[fair nacelle]

That’s only really a concern for clothing right now and honestly who cares if you can craft slightly OP stuff for explorer or balanced difficulty. There’s two more difficulties that scale to ridiculous levels of bullet sponginess

[remote cedar]

champion enemies are quite spongy but it's still manageable, but the nightmare mode is just a bad joke, a simple wolf has over a million hp

[fair nacelle]

I do a separate workstation for each combo of augments and minor realm card I want to use. Takes more time to set up but I never have to change anything.

[nimble venture]

Yeah given that essence drops don't seem to change I just leave it on balanced since things get too spongy.

[fair nacelle]

The essence rewards from completing bastilles and infestations increase but not enough to make it worthwhile.

[marble pier]

I dunno about that, I get up to 100 essence per bundle on nightmare

[fair nacelle]

I did a couple on 220 and got 25 T4 each. Now if it’s 100 on T3 nightmare, that might be worth my time.

[molten sedge]

it depends on the POI. Typically Aid is 100 though for both T3 and T4

Couple other are too, forget which ones off the top of my head. Think agility is often one, but the bastilled vary a bit

[pine pebble]

Anyone know if there's a way to make a tool build that's >=100 with the duantless bug w/ charms? or is it basically only mystic gear right now?

[pine pebble]

separate question, what can gems be used for other than making cut gems and glass? can't seem to find any recipes that use it. can't be used as a carved stone (although technically, it is a carved stone), can't be crafted into powders

[cosmic mantle]

Gems themselves are usually used in placeable objects such as the simple enchanters focus etc

[nimble venture]

Well since the next thing on my list is Pants and I want F Carnute Meat for the Mal resist/magick, I started comparing the 3 pants (I refuse to count the twitch stuff as items) Its looking like Hunter's Breeches are the winners since the Textile slot can hold another Durable cloth.

If I am doing my math right, looks like 8 material bonuses worth.

[compact rapids]

hello is there anyone that can guide me into a direction for fibre that has magic

[nimble venture]

The giant beetlebugs in the desert, turn the meat into fibre.

[cosmic mantle]

^^^^

[compact rapids]

thank you @nimble venture much appreciated

[marble pier]

There's a few, you can find Fibres and Meats both in their own tabs, capable of being fibre cloths.
You can then find where those spawn using the Locations Finder tab (read the notes)

[compact rapids]

thank you @marble pier 🙏

[nimble venture]

Well in light of the Forge world discussion earlier today I did play around a little bit with my Greenhouse card agri world. While I lack 4 Titania's since I have yet to make an ascended swamp, testing the two T4 plant fibres I do have shows they do not make improved thread the way Forge world does improved ingots.

[nimble venture]

Well I think I just used Kahz difficulty thing for some serious abuse. Have aid job. set up bedroll. Sleep and change to nightmare. Play bob the builder. Collect 100 T4. Sleep again. Balanced.

[vapid ravine]

Question - Are T4 Holt Bloom only in ascended biomes? I seemed to have found about 12 pieces or so i thought in Forest Gauntlet but can't find anymore.

[nimble venture]

Sometimes find them in boxes.

[vapid ravine]

Hmm that must have been where I got them then.

[nimble venture]

I found a few in boxes and used them to start seeding my farm with them. Though I think they're just gonna gather dust compared to animal fiber for clothing.

[nimble venture]

Ok I did some testing on my Forge world about how the stats get boosted on the ingots.

Crit Damage, Melee damage, Ranged damage will all receive a 2% boost when smelted on a forge world. Movement Speed gives a 1% boost when smelted on a forge world. Injury Resist gets an extra 2.5% Also Alloys appear to get boosted twice (tested with steel and got 2% on the iron then used it to make steel for another 2% boost)

No other stats get boosted.

[subtle halo]

For those that have various worlds, do you just make a building in the realm and then just..never reset it? And have your respite elsewhere?

[nimble venture]

Yes

I have Forge World Gamma Omnicron 275 which has a house on an island with a lodestar, a smelter and about to set up a workbench there for testing purposes.

[subtle halo]

Oooh nice. I was going to start building a permanent respite (my building is still crude foundations and not really spaced how I want it), but I wanted to double check on worlds things cause I was thinking of making the permanent spot in a herbarium realm for the extra seeds/plants but I may just keep to the abeyance realm, still pondering

[nimble venture]

Squeezing an extra 2-4% percent out of gear is more of an endgame thing anyways. Especially since a lot of the needed cards are T3.

[wicked sedge]

so when you turn ingots into something else, say a knife, do those stats stay? cuz ive been seeing alot of talk saying it doesn't, and that forge just SAYS it gets the boost currently. ive made ingots on forge world and non forge world and the weapons i make have the same stats

[nimble venture]

Thats what I'm working on testing now. Need to set up a workbench.

signs point to no. I brought one of my old steel ingots with me and one of my forged world steel ingots. I made two refined steel knives. No augs or anything. Both have the exact same stats.

Unless I'm using a weak enough weapon the 4% boost isn't happening.

Though the forge world steel ingot had 2.5 more injury resist and that didn't apply.

[nimble venture]

Ok Lumber Mill doesn't work either on Lumber.

[cosmic mantle]

progressed from sylvan's cradle to the hallowed moor in nightmare mode in one day

lol

[hasty tide]

List of Augments->Tanning Station->Berserker seems to me is wrong

[nimble venture]

Think you have an outdated sheet? I'm showing only sewing/work for zerker

[hasty tide]

ahh updated... okay 😉

[nimble venture]

For the sheet I have found noble Hollow metal in T4 Hunt Forests as well.

[cosmic mantle]

Anyone done testing with fabled drops from regular creatures? Having some terrible luck here and I'm wondering if it's the realm card, a charm, or something else

[nimble venture]

Ok who was I talking about the Industry card with earlier today?

Because you need to do the augment shuffle. Move your smithing aug AWAY during ingot making and put them back during.

wrong channel crap

So it really looks like yeild bonuses not only do not stack but it takes the LOWER one of the one available.

Industry card with no aug. Make 1 ingot, get 2. Put T2 aug back, 1 to 1 again.

Ok the thick plottens. Using my junk ore (shimmering) I get 2:1. I start throwing my T5 ore in the smelter and it goes back to 1:1 Enchilada ore for reference (the hard to spell ranged damage one)

[inland jetty]

Enchilada

https://tenor.com/view/smile-laughing-laugh-gif-26377590

[wicked sedge]

would this mean i only want the best augments and not multiple tiers of an augment for refining?

[nimble venture]

Yes

[wicked sedge]

good to know before i started making my fabled harpy set

[nimble venture]

Any chance we can get this to the "things I wish I knew" section of the spreadsheet of doom

[marble pier]

I can work that in, will do a test today to confirm 👍

[remote cedar]

the minor card greenhouse it doesn't say that the weight and environmental resistance bonus are apply only on ‘plantcrafted items’ in the magcat but it seems that this is a requirement. The bonus appears well, but as soon as you fill the slots with only animal/metal components it disappears

[nimble venture]

Yeah thats on my things to test next time i play (ragequit when I set foot in a swamp realm, got the deep wilds card and a bound instagibbed me with a mortar as I set down my realm card device and destroyed it.)

[nimble venture]

Wood

Dropped from Grendel I think the Druid, which was moot since the Grendle Druid Wood is better

[nimble venture]

T5 Meat from a fabled mob in a Hunt Swamp

The hides and bones are also T5 too

[marble pier]

Yeh it's f'ing weird, the T3 version drops T4 as well. I'll edit my report to include the T5 aspect ty

[cosmic mantle]

How have you been farming fabled harpy because I've gotten loads of hide but no meat

[cosmic mantle]

What difficulty on the asc hunt swamp?

[wicked sedge]

Yea drop rates are pretty trash. I have 1.5k leather, but only like 50 fabled leather. Meat I've probs gotten 2k and have 40 total

[cosmic mantle]

What cards/realm are you running?

I tried Asc Hunt Swamp with hunter card and got 0/0/0 after killing over 30 Harpies

I got 11 hide 0/0 meat/bones in Asc prov swamp with blood moon eminent

Charm of skinning doesn't seem to be the issue, but I still have yet to understand how the fabled drop is counted

It's hard to tell if I'm just unlucky or if hunter card on Asc Hunt is broken and only gives the same resource. Fabled creatures definitely give more fabled meat and hide, but I think it also reduces the chance of fabled drops coming from regular creatures

I might try hunter on Asc provisioner next

[flint briar]

What in damnation is this ?
(Ascended swamp , it ask lvl 100 sickle)

[remote cedar]

Same, after having farmed at least a hundred fables hide and a hundred fabled bones i haven't had any flabed meat either, but I didn't take the full details of my farm, so hard to say if it's because i'm unlucky, because the drop rate is something like 100 times smaller than the rest or if it's because each harpy or harpies groups has a different loot table generated at realm creation.

[cosmic mantle]

When I did tests previously, fabled meat was the rarest drop but it was more like 1/11 drop chance

Which is why I'll be doing my first test on ascended provisioner with hunter card

If anyone would like to help me compile a drop table that would be awesome. I need baseline stats for Harpy drops at Ascended Provisioner 220, let me know if you're using charm of skinning, what realm cards you're running, and stats after 99 Harpy kills (99 because they spawn in groups of 3)

[remote cedar]

unless there's a bug (which is quite possible), the difficulty doesn't affect the realm's resources

[cosmic mantle]

There are many bugs, so I shall seek them out one by one 🙂

Thus it begins! I will be killing one thousand harpies today!

[cosmic mantle]

So I've killed 6 harpies right now and I've got 9 fabled hide and 9 fabled bones lol

That's just good luck

[snow urchin]

why's it different? 👀

[nimble venture]

Balanced. Higher diff are spongy foes without any real reward.

[cosmic mantle]

alright thanks

[flint briar]

look like something has bugged, try to change language if the text change. Or reconect to check 😮

[wicked sedge]

I have a fae swamp vault farm set up. Get the humbaba low and it spawns 2 harpies over and over. I've gotten fabled meats, but I'm talking like 40 out of 2-3000 meat. I'm running hunter eminent. I was getting more meat drops with blood moon apogean, but I get more per drop with hunter

[cosmic mantle]

Those harpies don't disappear when they die? that's wild

What do you mean with the last part? You're getting more regular meat from blood moon but more fabled meat from hunter?

[wicked sedge]

So I believe the drop rate is slightly better with blood moon. However, drop quantity is better with hunter.

[cosmic mantle]

I agree, especially after this test I've run

[wicked sedge]

They do, but if you kill them with a knife, you can harvest them before they despawn

[cosmic mantle]

Good to know

Are you running on explorer then? Still T4 drops?

[wicked sedge]

Yep, explorer, that way I don't get smacked

[zealous vapor]

Hello there. I have just found Delphinium on Magwytch Marshes, close to an Aid encounter

[nimble venture]

Diffuclty doesn't effect quality of stuff just amount of Essence I beleive.

[wicked sedge]

To be fair, I found out that I regenerate HP while poisoned with 500% poison resistance

[cosmic mantle]

lmaooo

[cosmic mantle]

Just made a huge find, going to share in a bit once I do more testing

[cosmic mantle]

Looks like hunter on asc prov is a bust

I'd probably need to kill more harpies to find out for sure

[nimble venture]

Guessing chest loot?

[cosmic mantle]

On the ground

[cosmic mantle]

Both times one of the harpies glitched out and couldn't be carved, which is why the number is 101 not 99 or 102

[nimble venture]

apparently you can throw knives at uncarvable mobs.

[cosmic mantle]

Sounds like I'm making throwing knives

And now I have throwing knives

[bright trail]

uncarvable mobs?

[remote cedar]

physically unreachable

[nimble venture]

Sometimes (I've noticed it in swamps) that sometimes you can't skin a dead mob no matter how many times you stab it.

[true grail]

No differnce between hunter and hunters eminent?

[wicked sedge]

finally tried out pickpocket charm

terrible idea

[nimble venture]

Yeah lot of charms are a "interesting on paper but terrible in practice"

Still need to make a T3 set and try charming it up for unarmed combat to see how bad that is since theres so many unarmed charms. I know I can punch something for ~80 damage or I can BASH IT'S FACE IN WITH A [REDACTED] HAMMER for 5.2k

[wicked sedge]

i have a birthday today but i will test my vault grind one out between blood and hunter

[cosmic mantle]

I haven't tried the eminent one yet, getting there

[cosmic mantle]

I tried your vault on hunter and I got a single fabled bone before the jana died from my accidental slashes

Probably killed about a hundred harpies

[wicked sedge]

ye gotta be careful about that lol

[cosmic mantle]

Still, 1 fabled drop for 100 creatures doesn't seem efficient to me

[wicked sedge]

ive gotten 52 fabled hide and 17 fabled meat from about...an hour? of grinding

dont know exact number of harpies though, thus why ill test it with a set amount of harpies tonight

[cosmic mantle]

That's not bad I suppose

It takes me about 45 minutes to kill 100 harpies in the open world and you can see the drop table above

[wicked sedge]

i do agree that i go long stretches without any fabled drops

[cosmic mantle]

Are you running charm of skinning

[wicked sedge]

yep

[cosmic mantle]

Must be luck then, I've got only 10 fabled meat drops so far

Been doing it for almost 6 hours now lol

[wicked sedge]

so over the course of about...3 days?4? about 2 hours each day

and this is with me dismantling a lot of basic meat bone and hide to repair gear

[cosmic mantle]

Yeah that seems like about what I've got right now

Except the meat

I've been using the regular harpy meat for testing gear

[marble pier]

One is from the Fae Vault Apex Boss Jana, the other is from the Hunt Realm Apex version.

[marble pier]

You can if you use a throwing knife, that works for them

[nimble venture]

I know, I was explaining to the guy asking what I meant by uncarvable mobs.

[cosmic mantle]

Just found out you can save materials with the augments even more efficiently than I thought

As long as you craft two of an item, if you have at least a Tier 2 augment that boosts the output (Unsprung trap on tanning station), you will always get a third item

Even though the output says 1.4x

[nimble venture]

Yes, rounding errors. T3 augments let you get 2 if you craft 1. And the Buy two get one free for T2 caps at making 4. If you make 6, you 'lose' one.

[cosmic mantle]

Didn't know this lol

Is there a Tier 3 hunting augment?

[marble pier]

All the augments currently in existance are listed in the matcat

[cosmic mantle]

sorry laziness ill go check

[marble pier]

At least, the ones that can be crafted by players

[cosmic mantle]

So search the realms for a POI with a tier 3 hunting augment

Got it

Done with the harpy hunting for today 🙂

[nimble venture]

No T3 Hunting Aug.

[quasi trench]

is there a way to heal up your sidekick other than spells?

[marble pier]

Give them potions

[quasi trench]

says they can't use it?

[marble pier]

They'll use them if they're in their inventory

[quasi trench]

ok

[marble pier]

It says its not effectively well functional, but it does work

Sometimes they can get stuck in a "potion" lock, depending on the damage they're taking heh