Weapon Theory Crafting

[fierce gazelle]

Updated post to be called Weapon Theory Crafting as a lot of discussion on weapon min/maxing is occurring here.

Post was originally called "Lee Metford Rifle (Einaidia)"

Exact Parts:

Einaidia Barrel
Pursuit Metal Plate
T4 Desert Wood Stock
Einaidia Refined Action
 - Einaidia Action
 - Pursuit Mechanical Gears

Crafted with Forge Card active for Ranged Damage+ and Crit Damage+ on a Workbench with Crackshot Trait for additional Crit Damage+.

Final result before any infusions or enchantments is 1548 Ranged Damage with x4 Crit Damage.

@tardy siren 🙂

[tardy siren]

How're the stats after infusion? That's pretty good, especially for a first shot. This is how mine comes out:

[fierce gazelle]

I'm out of T3 essence, haha, but will definitely post a screenshot once I've infused it.

[tardy siren]

Oh lol fair enough. Yeah i just made a new axe, remade my maul, and i'm pretty tapped on anything that isn't dust xD

[fierce gazelle]

Now infused

@tardy siren darn your stats are all around better. Do you know what mats you used?

[tardy siren]

let's see....
Lee Metford is:

• Barrel
• Metal Plate
• Stock
• Refined Action

The barrel parts were all Einaidia, the Metal Plate was Titan's Fingernail, the Stock was Tier 4 Swamp Wood gilded lumber. For the gilding, and for all the Refined Action parts, I used Pursuit.

[fierce gazelle]

ooh, guilded the swamp wood? Smart. I also have no idea what Titans fingernail is haha, still much to learn

[tardy siren]

I didn't either until like 2 days ago lol. It's one of those "rare weird pillar" metals like Einaida (but the pillar looks different, it was IIRC a weird tree with spikes coming out of it)

The tree looks like this - i didn't think to take the pic until after i'd mined it all lol, but it had orange spikes coming out of it

[fierce gazelle]

Cheers! I feel like I may have come across one of those in the past but didn't have the 230 pick at that point

@tardy siren what charms do you run for rifles if you don't mind me asking?

[tardy siren]

Sniper, Steadiness, Spellsword, Morale. Use a melee weapon to cast Assassin's Sight, then immediately switch to rifle and do an emote lol. This stacks like 3-4 buffs to your damage and crits, you get about 20 good seconds or more if already in range with all buffs in full effect. Assassin's Sight lasts the longest. If you have a moment in the fight where the target is out of range, or jumping around, or something, and you're not shooting anyway, emote again.

And of course if the target is still alive when Sight drops off cast that again.

[fierce gazelle]

Amazing thanks

[fierce gazelle]

hmm I just noticed that Spellswords tool tip when it's active says your next "melee" attack

[tired prawn]

Mine . I think cant do better

[fierce gazelle]

Wow! Very nice. Do you know what mats you used?

[tired prawn]

reasearch lingo

for wood was sawp wood 4 + research lingo i think

you need craft golden lumber for have lingo in your wood

[fierce gazelle]

Guilded Lumber? Not sure what Research Lingo is though?

[tired prawn]

yeah guiilder lumber

speak about lingo ranged damage 25 % and critical 7.5 % . green lingop

[fierce gazelle]

This?

[tired prawn]

y

[fierce gazelle]

@tardy siren check out #1215421547485990972 message

[tardy siren]

Note that his magick is only 64. He went full damage/crit, didn't hedge in some magick stat like i did for the ammo.

i'm sure it hits like a truck hehe

[fierce gazelle]

Yeah, and you tested that right, the higher magick stat increases elemental ammo? Was the increase worth it you think?

[tardy siren]

I mean with the recipe we used, the damage is very close and the crit is almost identical, but his magic is around 60 and mine is around 90. So IMO i think it makes up the slight difference.

Of course this is all just theory, if i find out that, for example, the magic stat does nothing useful for most of the elemental ammo, i'd scrap the idea and do what he's doing lol

[tired prawn]

this is a master piece

[fierce gazelle]

Yeah a few variables there, we don't know if bosses have any kind of physical of magical armour and stuff like that

[tired prawn]

fk wrong scrren shot

[tardy siren]

Ah very nice!

Magnifique 😎

[tardy siren]

o.O

That shouldn't be possible without using the exploit, i'm afraid

[tired prawn]

not exploit dude

i made 620 K damage on sun giant with charm and card and magic amo

[tardy siren]

you increased all three stats lol, magic, ranged, anc crit

there's no material that gives enough of all three to do that

OH

sorry!

my bad never mind that is your character side of the screen

the cropping, i didn't realize

[tired prawn]

but its my char stat

[tardy siren]

yeah i get it now

i thought it was base weapon numbers lol

[tired prawn]

with shotgun

with lee-metford

the secret is the hat

best hat ever of the game

crazy hat

and glove too

with hat and glove i have 120 % more damage in ranged

[tired prawn]

new record 1 million damage with ice ammo shotgun and duelist card xD. On sun giant dungeon 220 . he have like 2.6millions life ! 3 shot him 😄

Can make 1 million damage with no exploit ! this game is crazy

you need good charm too and the enchantement for the weak point

[tardy siren]

@tired prawn me with lee metford 😎

your shotgun is lots better than my shotgun tho, i will have to remake it! haha

huh... actually my shotgun isn't bad either 🙂

[tired prawn]

what glove you use ?

nice weapon too

speed umbrella too . But its bug atm doesnt work !

i can have 90 % movement speed with this ... but umbrella speed dont work atm

tankiness umbrella

[tardy siren]

oh no, the umbrella speed stat doesn't work? argh i ddin't realize this lol

[restive musk]

I do believe for range this hat is the best in game tho no?

[fierce gazelle]

Wow it certainly looks like it

[midnight ibex]

What materials did you make that out of?

[tired prawn]

yes its the best for range but your lose 23 % of domage body to body with this . Better is 78 % range and 41 % body to body

[tired prawn]

yes kinda sux

[restive musk]

Whats body to body?

@midnight ibex just used jana

[midnight ibex]

So the explorers hat just naturally has that much ranged damage? @restive musk

[restive musk]

I believe that the stats lean heavy into the hat as you upgrade it, so yeah

since there isnt any fibre or leather that has range in it this is the best for range

[midnight ibex]

damn i may make one for myself i've been rocking the elegant bonet

[restive musk]

But like Alucard said you can choose this or the other hat

[midnight ibex]

what's the other hat? @restive musk

[restive musk]

calcularian turban one

Has 78% range and like 40% something in melee if you want some balance

but i wanna make a pure range build so i didnt care for it

[midnight ibex]

oh damn ok imay go calcularian than hmm... thanks for the info!

[restive musk]

all good mate goodluck

[fierce gazelle]

Hey all, have got the lost abeyance issue so can't play right now, but I put this together earlier when I was in. I made a pure Zinc Lee Metford Rifle to understand exactly what it's base stats were. Also did not use forge or have Crackshot Trait on workbench. Then upgraded to see how the stats increased. After doing that and some more numbers testing I found that all other stat increases (physical, magickal, and materials) are just simple percentage additions over the base stats. The only thing that increases the base stats is upgrading at the upgrade bench. With this I might be able to more calculations to find all variants that could be made and what there stats should be.

[tardy siren]

The highest i've gotten so far was just over 500k lol. This is the same shotgun i posted up there ^ but i redid some of my gear - mostly gloves and hat - for better ranged and crit damage. Hoo boy.
Also note that this is using Ice rounds on the Sun Giant, which he is weak to.

This was NOT the public level 100 Vault. This was my own Extreme Vault private card - level 220.

[fierce gazelle]

He means melee damage. I've just been using google translate to translate his stats 😄

[lapis scroll]

random thought... what if the lumber and the poles (not sure about gilded lumber cos its both wood AND metal) were made under Lumber Mill card while the rest of the parts and the final product was crafted on Forge, rather than all of it on forge, anyone considered that or tried it?

[fierce gazelle]

As far as I know the cards that "improve quality" only do that to a final product, like a weapon or tool. The vague descriptions don't help, but when you place them in the transmuter, it gives you a preview of the actual effects.

[lapis scroll]

ah right

[tardy siren]

Yeah, it's super complex crafting but fortunately it's not THAT frantic.. imagine having to change Minor cards after every single part 😅

[wind anvil]

How many hits did it take ? What potions do you have on in the picture?

[tardy siren]

I think it was probably about 4-6 double-barrel unloads total, don't remember exactly.. i was super intent on keeping it staggerlocked because i'm crap at dodging that instakill laser barrage lol.
The offhand bar is - umbrella, lantern, salve (for broken legs lol), run speed, curative (for swamp ick), and the quickslot is the gargantuan healing potion you get from the Watch.

yeah more like 5 total reloads, i think, so 6 double shots. No way it was 4. That sumbish has a LOT of health.

[wind anvil]

Awesome good job. Did you have minor cards active?

I still reckon its got to be possible to one shot on extreme without boosting ingots.

Not sure how but a combo of everything we can do boost damage then maybe that charm that increases damage with each shot that lands. If that increases dmg 5-10 or more times then perhaps its possible. Would require some serious practice and skill as you would have to only focus on the rooks and not miss 10 shots and then hit the sungod close range.

[tired prawn]

its impossible to one shot sun giant 220 . He had 2.6 million hp ... its not sun giant multiplayer lvl 100 with 400 K hp

[tardy siren]

https://i.postimg.cc/2jXrJwD4/Shotgun.jpg

Best i've made so far 😄

einaidia, titan's fingernail, and pursuit

[fierce gazelle]

Reverse engineered using my calculator 😉

[tardy siren]

haha, nice

[fierce gazelle]

I theory crafted this one. Lower non-crit damage, but slighter higher crit damage, but check that magic stat! Ice ammo anyone?

[tardy siren]

We really need the devs to include more exact info on how the ammos work

[fierce gazelle]

yeah, that'd be nice 😛

[tardy siren]

Oh that's interesting. I wonder if i have the mats to make that one you just put together. Lightning Ammo is the best, in absence of any specific vulberabilities: 500% str, 200% dam

[fierce gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/recoil-gif-10190518

[tardy siren]

lol

hey, i have enough Titan's to make that one. Gonna test them side-by-side wth mine. Yours should hit harder on weakspot hits, i think

OH here's something for you to test on that:

[fierce gazelle]

Hype, interested to know how it goes. I'm still trying to find some fingernails after I lost mine

[tardy siren]

T4 Swamp wood is 25% rranged, 20% magic. T5 swamp is the opposite: 20% ranged, 25% magic

i don't THINK that nerfing base damage any further, without increasing crit, will be a gain. But who knows since we're not sure how magic scales the ammo exactly

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[fierce gazelle]

Both T5 Swamp Wood. First one using Forge card, second using Alchemist

[tardy siren]

Wait crap i don't have enough

Alchemist is broken FYI, it's not working on magick like it should

[fierce gazelle]

oh ok

[tardy siren]

errr do you remember what biome has Titan's? Swamp?

[fierce gazelle]

swamp, yup

annoying stuff to find

[tardy siren]

why is it always swamp 😭

[fierce gazelle]

Think I'm guna start playing Thin Veiled in swamp, I think that's the one thats kinda like Soaring

so I can jump and see over trees

[tardy siren]

yeah i use Thinned a lot when scouting around

[fierce gazelle]

ayo Titans fingernails in first swamp of the day on my way to Fae tower

hm, think Forge for increase Ore yeild will work for titans? I will give it a go

Oh snap, PSA, Forge DOES work with Titans Fingernail

[tardy siren]

o.O

well how about that

also get some T3 essence you slacker xD

[fierce gazelle]

O.o haven't even done a vault yet, spending too much time on spreadsheets lol

[tardy siren]

lmao no need, just roll a Whatever Ascended Extreme, do fae tower, reset realm, repeat

i think on extreme the fae tower alone gets you like 200-300

[shut imp]

Huh. I honestly thought that Pursuit just wouldn't be good on the Eclair due to low base crit

But I guess crit is king across the board

[fierce gazelle]

I originally thought the same, but then plugged in the numbers, and, well you can see. I guess, crit multipliers usually have a sweet spot and then, more of it they start to have diminishing returns. That's been my experience in other games too. But the shotgun has such a low one, that it gets a bunch of benefit from it.

For a comparison, this is probably the max base damage you can get on the shotgun? @shut imp

[shut imp]

That's almost exactly my current build

Really interesting stuff

[fierce gazelle]

Finally gone ahead and made this

Guess who has never made shotgun ammo yet

queues industry card

[midnight ibex]

i made 2

[wind anvil]

This one is good what wood did you use? Swamp t4?

[midnight ibex]

Enaidia and t4 swamp wood with forge minor

[lapis scroll]

second one will have more potential dmg from it's crit multiplyer

first one looks good on paper with it's raw damage number but will fall short of the second because of its crit

might even be worth changing the range infusion for magic, shotgun aint meant to be long range anyway, and the magic increase wont be much, but will buff elemental ammo slightly

[tardy siren]

Almost brroke 20k on the Paradox, with nearly 2x crit lol

(pics show my stats when wielding)

@tired prawn i went ahead and made the Explorer Hat and Calcularian Gloves

Still not convinced I'm done... turns out may not get much use out of that magick stat after all, may trade it in for more crit

although titan's does have 12.5 crit, so you'd lose 30 magic to gain only 2.5 crit with hollow 🤔

meh it's probably good where it is, at least until we get more information

[tardy siren]

BANZAI
https://i.postimg.cc/1tsYLhFH/20240312075744-1.jpg

[tired prawn]

hehe first shot 1 millions damage xD , second shot 400 K ? xD

[tardy siren]

second shot 700k 🙂

was dead center on medallion with ice rounds on sun giant

all remaining shots were 400k-500k. I believe i took a while to reposition and reload after first shot - so charm of patience may have been in effect again

[tired prawn]

you gain just 300 K with patience , emote and the other one ?

[tardy siren]

Assassin's Sight

gives bonus to weakspot hits

(enchant)

Cast sight, switch to shotgun, do emote, open fire

[tired prawn]

you can had spellbalde

[tardy siren]

melee only

[tired prawn]

for more damage on first shot

[tardy siren]

nope

when you have the spellblade buff and mouseover it, the tooltip says "your next MELEE ATTACK will have increased damage"

i tried it 😭

[tired prawn]

damn

[tardy siren]

yeah

[tired prawn]

just for melee

[tardy siren]

still, pretty good

[fierce gazelle]

Hell yeah very nice

[tardy siren]

So i just tested some things in your calc @fierce gazelle and then in game. Turns out, boring as it is, an all-Pursuit shotgun seems like the way to go. I left what i did up in the calc on the tab you made.

In the 220 vault the opener was once again over a million lol, but then also, each followup shot was 500k - 700k o.O I got multiple 700k hits. Maybe my aim on the medallion was better also, but still.

Unless or until they make Magick mean a lot more to Ice and Lightning rounds - which is mostly what you use in a shotgun, my Lee is for delivering fire and poison - it seems like stacking Magick is a damage loss.

Oh, should note that this is also after taking Alucard's advice and using the Explorer hat and Calc gloves. BIG difference in base damage. Yeesh.

The only thing left to see IMO is to add Advanced Hollow Metal - 15% crit and no other useful stats - to the calc and mess with it and see if using it is a gain or a loss. I suspect loss, because having NO ranged damage on it is probably too big a hit to base damage.

Ironically the better gun comes out with a slightly lower GS because the Titan's nail is higher level than the Pursuit.

And this is me wielding it.

[fierce gazelle]

Good to know @tardy siren. Have added advanced hollow metal now.

[tired prawn]

i have this all time not in first shot but all shot .and work with melee too . Secret build :p

this is with shotgun

no patience here , and no moral and no traitor

and no explo hat ^^

melee damage

[fierce gazelle]

Hello fellow gun enjoyers. How does one go about making good ranged gear? E.g. I don't see any fibre/hide/meat that helps with it?

[fierce gazelle]

@restive musk @tired prawn @tardy siren what are you guys making your hats/gloves out of to boost ranged damage so much?

[tardy siren]

Well, firstly, i was foolishly assuming the best gear would be the best gear. It is not lol. The current "top" gear sets are not a linear upgrade from previous sets - that is, they aren't "the same but more," they have different stats entirely.

Alucard clued me in to the Explorer hat and the Calc gloves as being the hat and gloves that he identified as having the most Ranged. You give up some other stats, but not much, and it's a HUGE boost to ranged.

So basically what i did was pinned the recipe for the Hat, looked at the first ingredient it wanted, then looked at every mat i had for what had the most Ranged boost on it.

and pretty much that's it step by step. Hat and gloves are the ONLY clothing items that have ANY effect on your damage output. None of the other pieces have any offensive stats. Wait that's not entirely true, boots have some magick, but most peopel seem to get the Explorer boost because they hgave the most speed, etc.

[fierce gazelle]

hm, looking at the spreadsheets, no hide/meat/fibre has ranged damage. So Calc Hat for example, only takes Cloth, Leader, and Thread.

I'm guessing Explorer has buttons or something you can fuse some ranged damage in

[tardy siren]

one sec - i remember using meat to make fibre for the hat but that may have been for health. I don't think the hat had any metal parts

once something was made i wish there was a way to see what its parts were lol -_-

[fierce gazelle]

YES, this would be so nice

[tardy siren]

Explorer hat is Fabric, Cloth, and Thread. No metal.

So it might be that just raising it to Epic is what increases its Ranged score over the base

so if that's the case, that means for all hats, whateer starts with the mnost will also end with the most.

hmm

[fierce gazelle]

Dang ok

[tardy siren]

the bowler hat takes buttons, and the tophat takes buckles. SO that must mean the explorer hat has SO much more base over those two, that even adding metal parts to them, doesn't let them catch up

TL;DR basically this is noob dev mistakes lol, rookie stuff, no one sat down and did math, it's like they pulled arbitrary stats out of their butts for whatever they thought sounded cool for any given piece. Which surprises the hell out of me tbh, as do the lame-ass lowrez textures. I'd heard that the devs had a lot of industry veterans on the team, including former Bioware, which is what got me interested in the game in the first place. So i dunno why these elementary flaws persisted throughout the design.

wtf did i make this hat out of lmao lemme try something, going to make a generic one with crap base mats and see what the Ranged% comes out to.

[fierce gazelle]

I think the base is 20% when crafted

[tardy siren]

i don't mean the white version, i mean fully upgraded to Epic, because that's all that matters.

[fierce gazelle]

Well yeah.

[tardy siren]

made the whole entire thing from crude fiber lol

Everything being percent-based is a trap for an unwary designer. As our shotgun damage and the Forbidden Crafting Technique demonstrates: it's easy for things to snowball.

yep that was it. Not a single component that boosts ranged, but since it starts with 20% - higher than any other hat i know - the T1 to T2 to T3 upgrade sends it through the roof.

It came out at 72% at T3 upgrade. So the infusion must be what got it to 82 on mine.

the Tophat and Bowler, despite their metal parts you can put ranged on, are SO far behind it from the start, that the metal parts don't let it catch up, because even a large percent of a small starting number is still jack &*()?!!.

This is simply a design mistake. Which worries me.

i'm curious now, i was not minmaxing or anything when i got the other hats, i wonder how far off it is if i try stacking ranged on say the tophat

which is a higher tier than explorer and "should" be a better choice

[fierce gazelle]

Thanks so much for testing that. It's very helpful for me, and, it confirms some math, for certain calculators and things 😉

[tardy siren]

👍

it's like the devs just assumed the metal part would take care of it and didn't actually run any numbers? weird

[fierce gazelle]

Ok so Explorer hat

[tardy siren]

damn i'm out of Einaidia, can't test it with 30% ingots.

using pursuit. Hats also have crit, but it's such a tiny amount it isn't worth trying to enhance really.

[fierce gazelle]

Search Explorer Hat, don't have it, find which trader, Forest Ascended Hunt. Realize I haven't bought Ascended Hunt card yet. Start travel to respite, wait, wait, Travel Error. Log back in. Go to respite, wait wait

[tardy siren]

Yeah i can see how this is going already. WITH pursuit, the white Druid hat came out at 6.3% ranged, because it starts with base FIVE. No way in hell it could ever catch up to the Explorer's twenty.

[fierce gazelle]

This game can only get better 😄

[tardy siren]

lol

SO yeah i don't need to waste the essence upgrading the test tophat to epic, the math is clear.

And using pursuit: ranged 6.3, crit 10.8

i.e. garbage

mind you the tophat does have decent melee

but who TF wants to be, like, switching hats in the middle of fights lol

Calcularian Gloves came out even in melee and ranged - around 42% each

and some small meaningless amount of magic and crit.

[fierce gazelle]

Your using calc gloves or?

[tardy siren]

yep

[fierce gazelle]

Should be a nice upgrade from my Tier 2 dashing top hat lmao

[tardy siren]

heh

[fierce gazelle]

Oh dang, Ice Buckshot requires a Diamond

[tardy siren]

yep, each ele ammo requires a gem

[fierce gazelle]

Oh snap found my first Saskatoon berry while traveling to essence traders

[tardy siren]

haha nice

[fierce gazelle]

Dammit I need a dune buggy, this desert trader is 1.2 km away

[tardy siren]

and probably up a cliff

how tf he get his wagon up there, is what i wanna know

[fierce gazelle]

Flax gives crit damage

[jovial knoll]

TIER 4 DESERT WOOD

[lapis scroll]

oh damn, now i need that to make another backpack, unless there anythign with more than 25% max weight

[green imp]

@tardy siren 4 rifles i made for testing. each one is all persuit except for the barrel

persuit does the most damage on a crit not factoring ice damage, second is eidania, third is advanced hollow. gonna go test with ice ammo now and see if that flips the other way

[lapis scroll]

pursuit is defo hard to beat

[lapis scroll]

so whats everyone been using for their hats and gloves? I have this as my hat atm, probly not the best but I been liking it cos i do switch to melee when surrounded in melee range etc my gloves atm are hermetic which is kinda weak in both but plugged me some magick power

[green imp]

titans with ice debuff VS extreme vault sungiant: 84,1XX advanced hollow: 83,XXX, EIN: 86,9XX, persuit: 88,8XX

so ein is a close second, followed by nail, then hollow when taking into account elemental ammo

@tardy siren

[lapis scroll]

I only ask about hats and gloves cos they contribute to damage bonuses

2 identical guns are gonna have very different results depending on them

[tardy siren]

You're right of course, our own personal tests are anecdotal; but we are also doing the bare math (Ice made a spreadsheet for instance) that considers only the weapon itself and not subjective "i shot blah" tests 🙂

and of course as long as we keep wearing the same gear, a given player testing X vs Y on themselves can be accurate.

or at least give us a starting point for a more rigorous test

[restive musk]

@fierce gazelle i just straight up used Jana meat for my explorer hat and calc gloves since there isnt any range boosting materials for clothing. That being said its my first time seeing flax did no know that existed

Using jana only got my explorer hat to 82% range dmg and 10.8% crit so lowkey if you can use pure flax you could make it spicy

[fierce gazelle]

Yeah I don't know where I got the flax from unfortunately

[restive musk]

All good imma have to see where i can get some then this just opened up my builds

[fierce gazelle]

I only have 3 flax, enough to make 1 thread lol

[restive musk]

lol can you turn it into seeds maybe?

[fierce gazelle]

possibly

going to log on now and see

[restive musk]

if you can might be able to grow you own till you have enough, maybe share with you boy 😉

oh nvm its bugged save you flax

[fierce gazelle]

#1211073684140462190 message

Oh what the hell, message from dev "Just a quick note regarding the fibres like papyrus, flax, hemp, etc that are turning into crude fibre - those aren't actually meant to be obtainable and we have some bug reports in the system to address that."

hm, I can it seems, turn them to seeds 😛

but I don't think it will grow anyway

[lapis scroll]

dont do it, it become crude fibre when you harvest it lol

i had 2 flax, now i got none because i tried it before reading anything about it lol

[fierce gazelle]

oh haha

[shut imp]

Eventually we get to ride what are essentially velociraptors!

[shut imp]

So they're opting for generic Tiered materials instead of uniquely named materials ON PURPOSE?

https://tenor.com/view/losing-it-snapped-mr-krabs-eye-twitch-gif-4376164

[fierce gazelle]

Alrighty, finally got my Hat sorted

[fierce gazelle]

160 Vault Sun Giant. No exploits, no realm cards.

[wind anvil]

Wow where did you find the Flax?

[wind anvil]

Oh snap very nice! What was the build details if its not to much trouble?

[fierce gazelle]

I did a recording of it, I'll put it on youtube i'ts a whole 90 seconds long 😛 I hover over each of my items

[fierce gazelle]

@wind anvil https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdqh9CbQ9OU

[wind anvil]

excellent work thank you for this.

[tardy siren]

I just realized something
You can put Sniper on your clothes,
that way you can put Called Shots on each of your guns, and it won't interfere with using Ferocity on offhand with casting Quake

[fierce gazelle]

I guess that depends if magick damage is even part of the "non-crit" hit equation, or just a whole different equation. Physical damage versus magickal. But yeah you probs right

[tardy siren]

I have no idea what happens if Called Shots and Ferocity is in effect at the same time lol. I may have to try it and see

[fierce gazelle]

Other things I'm yet to try "Charm of Blood" increases the power of enchantments but hurts you each time you use it could be interesting to have on a piece of gear that you swap it before the boss arena or something. And "Ring of Empowerment" haven't tried it at all, but I think it's a support ability that grants a damage boost to players standing within it's radius

[tardy siren]

yeah i've heard Ring is a good boost, but you wouldn't be able to use it at the same time as Assassin's Sight

[fierce gazelle]

Oh, nuts

Was about to craft my mystic lantern finally. Realized I only have 4 fossilized ichor after all this time. It seems the best for the Cut Gem and Molded Glass, but I need 1 more bit lmao. Do you know where to farm it?

[tardy siren]

i have 25 if you need some 🙂

[fierce gazelle]

Yes please! Honestly I think I just need 1. 4 for 2 glass, 2 glass for 1 molded glass

[tardy siren]

They're a rare drop from the floating crucified Bound, so i used blood moon farming

[fierce gazelle]

and I used 1 for the cut gem, and gold for everything else

[tardy siren]

fabled sun giant ingots are 30% magic....

[fierce gazelle]

Gah, curse all these spreadsheets n stuff lol

so hard to find things sometimes

Well I have 40 of those!

[tardy siren]

heh

you need 5, one for the cut gem and 4 for the molded glass. Invite me, i'll bring e'm over.

[raw siren]

what about your axe ect

[fierce gazelle]

The only important thing was it had Assassins' Sight on it which I cast first. It's not a very good one, just a Rugged Axe made from Pellucidic

[tardy siren]

at this point we should change the name of the thread to "weapon theorycrafting" lol

Hey @pale hemlock if you're around... i have a question about the knife

nm we figured it out

[pale hemlock]

My Knife is a blue Rugged one i threw together to skin stuff ... I am not a knife guy lol

[tardy siren]

it was about your quake / crit tests

but we got it

[pale hemlock]

Aight lol

[tardy siren]

hmm there's no hide that increases crit, is there

[fierce gazelle]

Weapon Theory Crafting

[pale hemlock]

Did anyone try building a turbo Lancaster to see if the audshot can pull off what the shotty does with buff stacking?

[fierce gazelle]

No but it is something I wanna try at some point

[fierce gazelle]

Ooooooooh. I just tried adding the charm of Herbivore/Venom combo to my current build and was surprised to see I did the exact same 1.2 mill damage. Upon rewatching my recording I realized, charm of patience doesn't work with that combo because it requires you don't receive damage for 5 seconds, but poison constantly hurts you.

That combo would probably work better against Jana though.

I guess the other option is charm of momentum.

[tardy siren]

It's over the cap
Quake damage caps at 300 magick.
You want to use the Dauntless knife and stack Crit, using charm of Ferocity on a lantern in your offhand, because that damage scales with Crit multpilier.

Yeah i know it makes no sense whatsoever

[jovial knoll]

I thought quake scales with magic since it’s magic? Is that intentional to scale of Crit?

[green imp]

Ferocity makes Magick damage scale off critx, and since quake has a low Magick cap of 300 it's easy to hit Magick cap with a dauntless knife ( up to 9.3x Crit multiplier) a mystic lantern and your clothes to deal the most damage

[jovial knoll]

Ok make sense now so for this to fully be utilized , I gotta use a specific set or just any?

[green imp]

Mystic lantern, dauntless knife made of advanced hollow metal and carnute hide, then whatever armor you like that gets you past 300

[jovial knoll]

Wow! Is this with no exploit thing? I heard ppl were able to stack stats etc.

[green imp]

No exploits needed to this no

[jovial knoll]

Ty!

[pale hemlock]

Is it 'scaling off crit' or just able to hit weakpoints and thus trigger the crit damage bonus?

[fierce gazelle]

No it's scaling off crit. I'm 100% sure. Because I get identical numbers on every single enemy everytime, and then it double when they fall over. I also tried swapping between 2 knives, an lantern/umbrella and observed. Damage didn't go up over 300 magick, but lowering crit gave lower damage.

Also managed this on 160 Jana

The follow up shot was 400k and left it with like 1% health lol. I just went and stabbed him with my knife and he died.

[pale hemlock]

Ah ok, I wonder if the knife having the back as a weakpoint is affecting it. Could quake always be hitting the targets back?
Or does this crit scaling work across all weapons in the same manner?

[pale hemlock]

Also nice.
Im just happy doing 180k~ rifle crits on Sun Giant without any external buffs or dedicated ranged gear lol

[fierce gazelle]

That's real nice damage for a rifle

[jovial knoll]

should i make the myst lantern with the same mats?

[green imp]

Myst lantern you'll probably want to stack full Magick on, so fabled sun giant ingots are a good bet. You could stack health Regen but I'm pretty sure higher health Regen makes it lose durability faster

[tardy siren]

Also you will already get SO much health regen from it, that you'll get more benefit from having high magick. Putting highmagick on the lantern, and good magick on your clothes, means you need less magick on the knife meaning you can go for more crit, and then add base damage for the "lefftover" after crit is maxed (there is no hide that gives crit) as an added bonus. This is my knife, and i'm magick capped for Quake, with as high a crit as it can go:

With the Alchemist card being broken 😦 this is as good as the Lamp gets, use 5 Fossilized Ichor gems as that gives max magic (30%) AND health regen:

[jovial knoll]

what augments/minor did you use for these?

[tardy siren]

For the knife I used Forge minor and the grinding wheel augment; for the lamp i used umm one of the Minors that gives Durability to tools i forget which one exactly, since the lamp "consumes" dura while it's running (and Alchemist, which gives magick, is currently not working)
@jovial knoll

Once they fix the Alchemist card, which supposedly gives purple-ranked "Magick+++" ...some of the build details may change, since you can then rebalance stats.

[jovial knoll]

how did you get the melee so high? all my stuff is same as that knife but its 279 melee, maybe its the skills i put on?... i've got quake/roe/bounty

[tardy siren]

One sec

[tardy siren]

So when I made mine, I used two Beelzeboar Fabled Hide for the grip - this boosts melee - and Advanced Hollow Metal for all the metal parts (for the crit), and one Carnute Hide T3 fot the "leather" piece (30% magic). I only needed 130 magic on the Knife because the lantern has almost 100 and i am getting the rest of my magick from clothes (i come to a total of 308 magick, just over the cap).

[jovial knoll]

ahh ok make sense ty!

wheres that calculator at?

[tardy siren]

It's not published, just something Iceheart made for us to mess with build ideas

He hasn't made a locked-down public version of it yet

[jovial knoll]

oooh

gotcha

..? wth

[tardy siren]

?

[jovial knoll]

idk weird font stuff going on

[tardy siren]

ah heh

looks normal on my end

[jovial knoll]

imma remake it then ty again!

[tardy siren]

have fun 🙂

"sharpened blades" comes from the Grinding Wheel augment btw, and Forge is a minor card

[jovial knoll]

yea i saw that, some reason i didnt get all the bonus on the knife as the minor card states

it looks just like yours but maybe cuz of the space on the description didnt fit?

[tardy siren]

No remember that you cannot ADD stats, you can only ENHANCE them. An object won't get new stats it doesn't already have.

[jovial knoll]

ah.. honestly makes more sense now lol

[fierce gazelle]

Sun Fabled, is good, but Titans Fingernail could be <slightly> better as it gives +30% magick but also +20% durability which can help with Lantern.

Anyone guna make a Thorns only block build now they removed stamina cost from blocking? (which is kinda insane btw)

I really don't have a reason for food now, I'll probably just eat mixed plants and basic cooked meat while running vaults etc

[tardy siren]

i only use +sta Gazpacho because with 1000 or so stamina, i can jump from the Tower or even a moderately high-up rocky cliff, and glide across half the map lol

So i've also found much silliness with mauls and shockwave, one sec while i format it or try to lol

[fierce gazelle]

Am running Forest Extreme Malificiate Apogean, trying to get some Advanced Hollow Metal. So far, 0 ninja guys

[tardy siren]

Find a tone puzzle that spawns them when you fail it. Then just... never solve it. Always hit the wrong first one. Because the same group will always spawn 🙂 that's what i do

i do a similar thing to farm gunpowder, just find a puzzle that spawns some bombers

[fierce gazelle]

Yeah trying that to do that, will just have to keep going until I find a group. Is it true Coffee/Tea and Crumpets restores Rest? If so that's guna be handy for doing long farming runs

[tardy siren]

i just build a small camp with a faerie ring in case i screw up, a shelter, and a sleeping bag with a fire, like right next to the puzzle when i find one 🙂

[teal willow]

Coffee does for sure. Little bit of hunger restore, LOT (maybe all?) of rest restore.

[fierce gazelle]

thats a good idea

[tardy siren]

SO this silliness shows that shockwave does indeed have a hard cap, it's 300 magick just like Quake, and Dauntless mauls are better than Mystic because of this cap - even coming UNDER the cap, the lesser Shockwave damage is more than made up for by the HUGELY greater damage-per-swing of the maul itself. -_-

Which is multiplied (literally) when Brutality or Flanking comes into play.

TL;DR never use mystic mauls, even for magic, lolsigh

[fierce gazelle]

oh wow, there has to be some oversight, or some plan for magick

[tardy siren]

i hope so lol. This 300 cap is just killing magic when Mystic and other gear lets you vastly surpass it just by sneezing. All those poor folks stacking magick without knowing it's useless.....

Then if you add in Lyote's playing games with STR and shoving, the Dauntless is clearly the only choice. And you can STILL add Shockwave to it and be doing nearly what a Mystic maul would with it -_-

AAAND Ferocity also breaks the Shockwave magic cap lmaoooo

[fierce gazelle]

Well Mauls dont have a crit, so I wonder how "bonkers" you can make it 😛

[tardy siren]

not very >.< not nearly as dramatic as the Quake trick - at least from a Maul. From a knife or axe, tho, i wonder....

[fierce gazelle]

I guess you don't have the crit to scale the ... magick/ferocity.. thing

[tardy siren]

Yeah just tested. My best Dauntless maul, uncapped, 1666 Shockwave hits with Ferocity. My highest-magick Mystic maul: 1980 shockwave hits. So it DID still scale with more Magick... but not nearly enough to be worth it.

But dig this, Dauntless maul with base stats of 3900 Damage and 100 Magick: with Ferocity, it does 1666 shockwaves and physical hits were 14,000+

So ferocity DOES pretty much double the phys damage of a maul, even tho it has no crit to sacrifice 😄

now i gotta see if i can make a Shockwave critweapon that's truly ridiculous....

can you imagine yeeting things across the planet... from a knife stab lol

ah dagnabbit i can't reclaim these blades into advanced hollow. Sigh. stashes in a box til perm fix is in

umm actually i guess i can use my existing critknife for the shockwave test... now i just gotta make a test axe

[tardy siren]

dagnabbit. Welp, i can't compare to an axe right now, because axes are definitely broken now in that Ferocity does NOT affect them. No damage boost, still crits.

get this tho.... my critknife with shockwave and ferocity... its base stab is a measly 770. BUT, it is super fast, AND brutality still causes it to hit very hard... annnnnd its Shockwaves were hitting for a total of around 10,000 lol

I've noticed shockwave seems to hit twice. On the axe, without ferocity since ferocity on axes seems bugged, it was hitting for 1000 and 3000.

On the knife with a total of magic over teh cap (335) and 9.5 x total crit, it was hitting for 4000 and 6000 (at the same time) o.O

every stab with shockwave i saw three numbers - my physical hit, and two shock hits.

[fierce gazelle]

That 4000 is the knife stab with ferocity?

[tardy siren]

nope. The knife stab was 770, then i also saw a second AND third number.

from one swing on one target. Always the same three numbers when stabbing an isolated target with Ferocity and Shockwave on: 770, around 4000, and around 6000.

tested with several weapons. Shockwave seems to cause two numbers to pop up. No clue why.

[tardy siren]

When you get a chance can you help on the spreadsheet lol... i tried copying & altering the Dauntless Knife cells to a new section for Dauntless Maul, but i'm getting N/A for all totals, even tho it seems to be referencing the correct cells in the formulae... also the Combatant's Workshop Card should be added to the minor card list, but i'm not sure if my adding a line there and shifting everything down will break all the dropdowns?

[fierce gazelle]

Just finished my lunch and was going to work on it!

[tardy siren]

awesome, thanks

and i suppose add Strength to the infusions since the maul has no use for crit 🤔

weird that "total increases" is working on what i copied, but the final stats aren't. It's been years since i tried making actual spreadsheet calculations lol.

[fierce gazelle]

It's the first time I've done VLOOKUPs 😛

[tardy siren]

heh oh god i remember that word ... from another life hahaha

i'm semiretired nowadays, used to work in IT

[fierce gazelle]

is strength infusion 5,10,15% ?

[tardy siren]

crap. not sure. How can i find out?

oh let me make some, it says it when you add right?

[fierce gazelle]

Just go try craft one, it will show you in the UI on the riught

you dont need to actually craft it

[tardy siren]

yep, 5-10-15

and the Combatant's Workshop minor card adds "Melee Damage++" in blue, which i'm pretty sure then corresponds to 10% as well.

[fierce gazelle]

Alright I think it's working

[fierce gazelle]

oh yeah, thanks

[tardy siren]

hehe

yeah i only just now realized, watching you edit it, it still has the knife parts. oops.

grip is the same but it has Ornament instead of Leather

sorry no grips are leather the ornament is 1) standalone, and 2) part of the Forged Handle

yeah you got it heh

[fierce gazelle]

Interesting recipe hehe

[tardy siren]

oh nuts the mats pull in crit. is there an easy way to have it pull strength just for this calc?

I guess mats needs another column, on the Materials tab? is that how it works?

[fierce gazelle]

think I fixed that now?

[tardy siren]

i don't see Strength on the Materials tab? (and we'd need to add Steel, i think, as that was my alloy choice IIRC)

[fierce gazelle]

ooooooh

[tardy siren]

let me know if you need any numbers, i'm in game

[fierce gazelle]

If you enter in the strength figures on Materials tab, everything should update now

[tardy siren]

awesome

[fierce gazelle]

oh and I trusted nightingale-labs for the true base stats of the weapon

[tardy siren]

they seem to be getting the right results so far

[fierce gazelle]

usually I look in game

[tardy siren]

there, i have re-created my exact stats on my current maul. So now i know what i started with lol.

[fierce gazelle]

haha, and that's a good way to verify the calculator is working

[tardy siren]

Added a few mats

they really made Pellucidic OP.... to the point of other materials being pointless. Melee damage, AND crit, AND strength. 1-stop shop lmao

ok, now the goal is to calculate a maul that lets me hit the magick cap while keeping max possible melee damage.

[fierce gazelle]

"How much melee power do you want"
Pellucidic: "Yes"

[tardy siren]

well that was easy. Wait crap no it isn't lol we only have three choices for alloy -_-

so since i personally have 110 magick from clothes, i need a maul that hits 190 magick while maximizing melee dam.

lol i see you're adding validation for the alloys xD

[fierce gazelle]

Yeah, it was annoying me for the Hides earlier anyway

[tardy siren]

hahah

oh ffs kicked for being idle, because all i was doing was mousing over ingots.

[fierce gazelle]

I was thinking about adding a line for "increases from clothing" or something

[tardy siren]

oh i give up lol this is ridiculous. I just shockstabbed a Bruiser to death in like 5 hits. In a 220 Extreme Hunt desert with BLood Moon active lmaooo

the maul's shockwave damage has an absolute cap, tried 200, 400 and 500 magick. 400 and 600 were capped at like 1666. 200 was hitting for around 1200 (same as capped shock without ferocity really)

but the knife... the knife with 9.5 total crit (9.3 on the knife itself) just goes nuts

i just ran behind the bruiser coz he's so slow and whackwhackboomdead lol

[fierce gazelle]

feels weird that you can't crit with ferocity but crit weapons still be the best lol

[tardy siren]

uh huh >.<

and the maul sucks for shockwave but the dinky little knife is the best >.<

SO since the shockwave cap is so low, just hitting the cap exactly or close to it, then leaving the rest melee, is best. And Mystic Maul is pointless becasue Dauntless can easily reach the cap but then has MUCH higher phys damage.

but meanwhile it takes me half an hour to bludgeon a Bruiser to death with the maul, and he's gonna hit me a few times while i do it, ORRRRR i could stab him to death in less than three seconds >.<

[fierce gazelle]

an easy to back dodge with the knife

[tardy siren]

yep. and meanwhile the shockwave explosions are yeeting everything else nearby into orbit lol

[pale hemlock]

Some weirdness going on there lol.
Starting to think Knives are bugged to hell.

I have a Mystic Maul that does a round 2050 when I last tested it. I've since upgraded, but it was at 370 Magic at the time, Ferocity and Brutality included.

I have a Mystic Hammer that i tested with also.
However, with -70 Magic it had +500 damage over the Mystic Maul.

[tardy siren]

It's just the insane crit on the knives is breaking the scaling on the "uncapped" spells.

I had a mystic maul at 600 magic, and one at 400 magic. Both had basic shockwave hits of 1666.

(and really bad phys damage per swing)

i think that whatever they did to Mauls to make them critless, instead absolutely broke all magic scaling for them.

because i notice when i wield one that i still have a personal crit score from clothes of, like, 0.2

so they're doing something else besides simply leaving the stat off the maul - or else i'd still be getting weakspot hits, the breaking-glass sound that goes with it, gold numbers, etc

it's jnust that those gold numbers wouldn't be much higher than white lol. So they are "suppressing" crits somehow, and it's messing other stuff up.

i think.

all i know for sure is, there's some weird ish going on

[pale hemlock]

I'll try again when I'm home with the Mystic Hammer and see what having an extra 100 or so magic does to my numbers.
I also have the 0.2x crit modifier from gear on my maul lol
But hitting a bound in the head vs hitting it in the gut is basically same damage as far as I can tell.

[tardy siren]

yeah

i was noticing... so, with NOT casting shockwave for instance, i went and stabbed a thing with the knife. Saw the number 780.

On a bruiser.

Then i cast shockwave and stabbed the same thing - and saw THREE numbers

780, 4000-ish, and 6000-ish

o.O

[pale hemlock]

Y ewha I read that above, I'm curious if it has something to do with Knives extra crit layer on backstabs.

[tardy siren]

with NO other targets alive.

this was stabbing from any angle tho

it was clearly the SHockwave hits

it seems to hit everyrhing twice

[pale hemlock]

Yeah what I mean is that the Shockwave from the knife is getting an extra hit from the backstabs layer, which would explain the second larger burst

[tardy siren]

used an axe, same thing. Bare hits with a crappy axe were the phys axe strike, and then TWO more numbers.

3000 phys hit from the axe, then 1000 and 3000 from shockwave

[pale hemlock]

Interesting.
I feel like Maul is the one working right and everything else is broken XD

[tardy siren]

lol maybe.

couldn't test fully becasue Ferocity is broken for Axes right now. It's having zero effect.

no change with or without it, still getting gold numbers, the crit sound, etc

[pale hemlock]

Ohhh that explains why my axe al wways felt so weak compared to maul lmao

[tardy siren]

haha

[pale hemlock]

Try with axepick. I know i don't get crits with that

[tardy siren]

ew axpick

[pale hemlock]

I'm too lazy to change tools for wall breaks and logging and our hotbar is is too damn small, don't judge me XD

[tardy siren]

hahaha

hotbar definitely too small, annoying constantly chaging tools for the moment. And as soon as i put something on, it's guaranteed to be the thing i took off that i need next -_-

meanwhile we have 5 offhand slots i don't really need

2 would be fine, umbrella and lantern and call it a day

[pale hemlock]

How about instead ... We get a Toolbar and a Hotbar with a key to switch between them.
So you can have a full Toolbar weith all your harvest gear and food
And hit a hotkey and it flips to your hotbar, with whatever you like on it.

Also, @tardy siren, can i post a clip here or is it just screenshots?

[tardy siren]

no idea tbh, try it i guess?

[pale hemlock]

Whell here goes. Ive remade this maul and it does about 12-13k now, but the shockwave is the same. This was taken prepatch though.

[tardy siren]

FYI there's a setting for how quickly the damage numbers fade, moving it all the way to the left makes them stay the longest. Makes it SLIIGHTLY easier to see. But we really need a combat log.

I just made a maul with 185 magick power (the rest of the cap i have on my clothes) and put the rest into melee damage, came out to 3113. Curious to see what Ferocity does with it.

[pale hemlock]

My current maul comes out to 3510 damage, 106 Magick.
With gear, im at 255 magick

[tardy siren]

on the giant locusts my maul is hitting from 14k - 19k, and shockwave numbers seem to be 1977

yeah it's consistent on a group of Bound as well, hitting the ground next to them clearly pulses out a single hit of Shockwave that's exactly 1977 on both of them.

[pale hemlock]

1955 for my shockwave

My Mystic Maul with total Magick at 459 it is 2049

Hammer is 2585 with 370 Magick lol

[tardy siren]

aahhhh crap i don't think i tried the two mystic mauls with Ferocity lol.

the knife, tho....

[pale hemlock]

Hammer only triggers one blast.
Knife and axe is 100% bugged lol

[tardy siren]

the knife is pulsing out 6k - 10k in shockwave damage lmao

with a total 9.5x crit mult

[pale hemlock]

Yeah something whacky is going on with Knife

[tardy siren]

it's harder to tell the lone shockwave damage.. with the maul i can pound the ground and see what damage happens next to it. Can't hit the ground with the knife lol it doesn'r reach so i have to stab something. And furthermore it seems to be triggering other effects, if the shockwave hits their back for instance

i stab one dude and i see numbers like 30k and 60k floating up sometimes o.O

[pale hemlock]

yeah scoring back hits feels like whats going on with Knife, for this and for Quake.

[tardy siren]

well quake definitely benefits from Brutality, if a pulse hits them when they're knocked down

[pale hemlock]

Its just suspicious that whenevr a spell is doing insane damage, the caster is a knife lol

[tardy siren]

i wish axe wasn't bugged for Ferocity, then we'd know for sure. Because Axe has a crit stat but it's like 1/3rd the knife.

[pale hemlock]

Use Hammer

Hammer has a crit stat

[tardy siren]

? hammer has a ... LOL WHY

WHY does the repair tool have ... i give up

lol. I'll try to see if i can keep as much as possible equal EXCEPT the crit stat... on multiple hammers... then we'll see

[pale hemlock]

It has a full melee combo lol

[tardy siren]

o.O

wait

it's 1h isn't it

[pale hemlock]

yes

[tardy siren]

so it works with lantern, doesn't it

[pale hemlock]

ALso yes

[tardy siren]

🙄

[pale hemlock]

Back into the testing mines with you!

[tardy siren]

yeah, the maul, even wearing my Ferocity Hat and around 300 magick, doesn't do anything as impressive as the knife's shockwave. Gotta run home to get the Mystic Mauls cause i don't think i tested them with ferocity... was just comparing damage (one has more phys, the other more mag)

holy CRAP

i hit the ground next to a Bruiser with a Mystic Maul, ferocity on, total magic 423

and there were TWO damage numbers. Knife is not the only thing pulsing out double shockwave hits.

the bruiser was the ONLY thing left alive.

1980 and 7600 or so

[pale hemlock]

This miught be a you thing at this point, Because i know my mystic maul only blasts once with Ferocity lol

[tardy siren]

Are you sure? because i sure as hell couldn't tell what was going on in groups. It was only when i isolated one bruiser (because they have a lot of health so it was easy to kill everything around it first) that i noticed the double hit.

OMG LOL nm i see waht's going on now

the 7600 is the maul itself. The game gives it a HUGE aoe. I was hitting the gounrd like 8 feet away from his feet and it still gave me the melee hit lmao

so with 400+ magic the maul shockwave is a big fat 1980

[pale hemlock]

Yeah magick increases the ranbge. You can see in my clip above how far away i was from the knight when i hit the ground and still yeeted him lol

Also

This was my Mystic maul hitting a single dude

Old screenshot though

[tardy siren]

sooo

why do we have different damage caps? My damage stops at 1980 no matter how much magic i add. The cap is the cap, so why are you getting 1994 and i get 1980?

i have 400 magic with one Mystic Maul, 600 magic with the other one. BOTH shaockwaves hit for exactly 1980.

the only difference is the 600 magic one has totally suckass melee damage.

[pale hemlock]

It goes higher. This was hitting 2 guys, 7k from the impact, then 2049 to each

[tardy siren]

yeah that's my point. It's like a few percent higher - but how is it higher at all? 600 magick. No change.

so what is increasing it for you, if it's a maul with no crit, and magick means nothing over 300?

[pale hemlock]

Puck is secretly screwing with us?

[tardy siren]

probably

hmm just out of curiosity... with your hands down, no weapon out, what does it say your crit is?

mine says 1.7

which i assume is just from clothing

[tardy siren]

lol 1.7 also. How much you wanna bet it's rounding and you're like 1.74 and i'm 1.71

yeah, any maul i use at or over magic cap does 1980 shockwave damage, period, the end. I bet if i screwed with my clothing crit stats....

and the dauntless maul, at slightly less than magick cap, does slightly less per shockwave (but does hugely higher damage per melee hit)

aaaaand lastly of course there's the ridiculous knife.

[pale hemlock]

Bah. Only got my Kniffe to 8.4x

Sadge

[tardy siren]

9.5, and it's doing over 6000 shockwave pulses on normal hits. then i see ridiculous numbers when it hits a downed target, or maybe also their back with charm of blindside

[pale hemlock]

Lemme slap Shockwave on and see what happens

[tardy siren]

i only needed the knife to have 130 magic, with lantern and clothes, to hit the cap. So YMMV

[pale hemlock]

Ah Adv Hollow. I dont have any of that. lol

[tardy siren]

yeah and it's gonna be scarce now that we can't melt down the blades >.<

[pale hemlock]

For Knife making ... Its fine for it to be a Blade, just Gild it for the Gilded Blade portion XD

[tardy siren]

it's already asking for a gilded blade

wait you can use a gilded blade for the blade to make the gilded blade...?

[pale hemlock]

Yeah, so if the Adv Hollow drops as a Blade, you can just use that as the ingredient for the Gilded Blade recipe?

[tardy siren]

uh...

o.O

herp

i suppose so!

[pale hemlock]

I know Bombardier only drops as an Action, does Adv Hollow drop as a blade?

[tardy siren]

🤦‍♂️

sure does lol

[pale hemlock]

Hah.

[tardy siren]

ok, good, that makes it easier then

[pale hemlock]

Yeah, for some things the lack of reclamation wont hurt lol

But your knife is now unique given you cant use the Adv Hollow for the Guard as well lol

[tardy siren]

well, ingots DO also drop. They're just very rare, even with Blood Moon or Malefewhatever farming.

[pale hemlock]

Ohhh

Yeah it took me ages just to see a Bombardier in Action form lol

[tardy siren]

yeah. I'm glad i made my rifle barrel from it, too bad i didn't get around to re-doing my shotty before the patch. Rave green it is!

[pale hemlock]

I may or may not have done reclamation shenanigans to make my Maul not just be bright golden lol

[tardy siren]

yeah the best Melee metal and the best Magic metal are both identical to Gold -_-

you'd think they'd make top-tier magic and physical NOT THE EXACT SAME ffs

golden hammers for errbody!

[pale hemlock]

Mine has Pellucidic stats and Shimmering coloring XD

[tardy siren]

lol

if i had my way i'd've used Ayrium, the deep blue one. Game doesn't have enough blue

[pale hemlock]

I.. Agree.

[tardy siren]

I made my skinning knife blue, both because its stats don't matter, and so it would be visually obvious which knife i had out (the critmonster is all red of course, from the Adv Hollow)

[pale hemlock]

So testing the knife on a cow in my respite, saw a 5750 Shockwave

No second hit.

[tardy siren]

yeah i was seeing the actual melee hits, thinking i was hitting the ground... i WAS hitting the ground, but they gave the maul a HUGE hitbox lmao

[pale hemlock]

Oh. Now that it survives the first stab, that scorpion took 2 blasts

[tardy siren]

wait did you say a cow? i've never seen a cow o.O

[pale hemlock]

Well. The Ox lol

[tardy siren]

8.5 crit you say? 5700 sounds about right. with 9.5 i was seeing close to 7k

[pale hemlock]

And confirmed, Hammer does it too.

[tardy siren]

and there were a LOT of varied numbers... 14k, 30k, all kinds of random nonsense in the crowd after the first stab. I suspect the shock was hitting knocked-down targets, and some of them in the back while knocked down, and triggering brutality, or flanking, or both

i assume you mean the 1h crithammer

[pale hemlock]

So Hammer, Axe and Knife all do a double blast.
... Is Maul the bugged one and not getting 2 hits?

Yeah the 1H hammer

[tardy siren]

oh i thought you said you were NOT seeing double hits?

[pale hemlock]

The Ox wasnt surviving to see the second blast

The scorpion is

[tardy siren]

OH LOL

ok

[pale hemlock]

SO thats VERY interesting.
Watch the damage numbers on the hammer.
Shockwave should be white damage.
But on the Hammer, You see 2 pops of red 747 and then shockwaves 2500

[tardy siren]

shockwave is white damage, that red is the hammer being something he resists

just like using a maul on a wolf hehe

[pale hemlock]

Correct.
However, we established that 3 instances of damage are happening.
1 impact, 1 shockwave, 1 unknown

The 2 damage pops for Hammer and KNife are both different

[tardy siren]

i only saw 2 numbers with the hammer, before you switched to knife

[pale hemlock]

Oh, look closer lol, The numbers appear in weird spots, its why i looked up and down

[tardy siren]

the 747 from the hammerstrike, and the 2.5k or so from shockwave

ahh

[pale hemlock]

One 747 appears high and the second one is low

I repeated a couple hits to make sure

[tardy siren]

wtf now i see

....what the actual

i paused it and moved frame bny frame lmao

[pale hemlock]

What that means is that one extra hit is not only identical to the hammers actual impact damage, but its also using its damage tyupe tha tthe Sun Giant is resisting

Which means Shockwave is duplicating the initial melee strike and then the shockwave happens

[tardy siren]

and the knife had a 5k proc once, and two 3k procs that it listed as "super effective" with uparows

o.O

O.o

[pale hemlock]

HEs weak to slash

The 5765 is the Shockwave, and the pair of 3409s are the stab plus the duplicated hit

[tardy siren]

yeah, i gathered that.

that's weird tho because knife melee stab is really weak

[pale hemlock]

Ferocity XD

[tardy siren]

orite...

pfffff

and, of course, unlike the Maul, its uncapped Shockwave is miles higher than the Maul when uncapped, getting back to the crit thing

[pale hemlock]

Its possibly related to the duplicated stab. What if the duplicate strike is also triggering a shockwave and we're just seeing the 2 numbers combined?

[tardy siren]

wait

why doesn't it duplicate the Maul? Maul strike should be HUGE damage if it procced another one....

[pale hemlock]

Maul is probably behaving correctly

[tardy siren]

hah

[pale hemlock]

Shockwave isnt suposed to duplicate your strikes

[tardy siren]

i'd imagine not!

[pale hemlock]

Its meant to just release a blast on impact

[tardy siren]

right

[pale hemlock]

So id wager the Maul is how it should be and the others are bugged to duplicate the strike

YUou said Axe triggers the second hit as well yeah?

[tardy siren]

No, not sure, Axe is broken and ignores charm of Ferocity - it's like the charm isn't there - so i stopped messing with it and wrote a bug report lol

confirmed exact same results with or without charm. Same white damage, same ability to crit, same gold numbers, same critsmash sound, etc

STUPID CENSOR

ok, as long as we're doing stupid stuff... my hat has Ferocity, my guns have Called Shots. Let's see what happens lol

[pale hemlock]

Put Fero on your shirt

Shirtr has no damage stats

Can safely remove it and leave all your damage percentiles the same

[tardy siren]

huh?

OH i gotcha

this entire evening's experiment was an accident, i was messing with altering Magic and Melee damage and forgot this hat had ferocity on it lmao.

so this isn't a "real" setup

but that's a good idea for a final build

it ocurred to me to put Sniper on my clothes, and Called Shots directly on my guns, so they wouldn't be in effect for magic or melee

[pale hemlock]

Yeh. I do it mainly so that when im testing stuff with/without Fero, i dont need to try and math back in the missing 40~% bonus damage from the hat lol

[tardy siren]

yeah makes sense. I'm still not used to the weird stat breakout this game has. You're right, going shirtless does nothing except what, health and stamina? and stealth or whatever

oh oops. No go lol

my shirt has a ton of magic

pants then, i suppose

yeah pants should be fine.

i'll just take off my pants when testing xD

good thing these realms are private, that might be hard to explain to any passers-by

[pale hemlock]

lmao

[tardy siren]

btw i know you like your maul, but hitting a Bruiser square between the eyes with the both-barrels attack of the shotty, using Lightning Rounds, is hysterical. Literally yeet them off over the horizon xD

where i'm testing now, one of those Darkweaver guys on the cross spawns, i literally run and jump to stab it in the face with the knife to remove the shield from the rest of the group

... am sometimes seeing a gold number with the maul and shockwave. What in the world?

definitely have fero charm on

[pale hemlock]

Yes but can the shotty get a two for one deal? XD

[pale hemlock]

Thats weird as hell. I can say definitively i have never seen shockwave go gold

[tardy siren]

no but the Lee can

[pale hemlock]

That clip had me dying when i rewatched it and noticed the second one going straight left lol

[tardy siren]

The Lee, and maybe other rifles as well dunno, overpenetrates. I have definitely hit a target BEHIND the target i shot.

like, both of them.

[pale hemlock]

With ice ammo?

[tardy siren]

with any ammo

tho i mostly use ice on the lee, the others are... not so useful

[pale hemlock]

I notice it all the time with ice. Dont use the other ammo types much anymore to notice XD

[tardy siren]

even with normal ammo

i noticed it on the floaty guys who cast fireballs, had one in front of the other, headshot both of them with one shot o.O

[pale hemlock]

couod just be a thing for the metford to help it stand apart from Winchester

[tardy siren]

LOL my recruit just yeeted my test subject out of frame

[pale hemlock]

lol yeup. They do that XD

[tardy siren]

guess waht

maul gets double hits

[pale hemlock]

Gave my recruit the Dauntless one i tried making with Adv Lacanus to get away from the gold.

What?

[tardy siren]

shockwave is doing 1200 exactly. But phys hit from this Mystic maul is 4600 or so. And i am seeing that number twice on one target, along with the 1200 (i'm over magic cap)

[pale hemlock]

clip?

[tardy siren]

At this point all i can say is, and the autocensor can bite me, "what the fkitty fk"

[pale hemlock]

Yeah i got auto modded when i described the sound effect of a headhsot >_>

[tardy siren]

i'm not set up to record anything atm sadly

LOL

[pale hemlock]

Windows key + G

enable Xbox Gamebar

i know, ewww xbox

But

[tardy siren]

yeah no lol

[pale hemlock]

The clipper it has is great and very lioghtweight

[tardy siren]

i have OBS studio, i just haven't used it to record games

[pale hemlock]

Id use shadowplay but the game stutters hard when i enable it

[tardy siren]

Gold number again! 2600 or so, with the Dauntless maul on a downed target, what the HECK is that coming from

[pale hemlock]

lol, th egamebar basically just is a built in windows shadowplay

Maybe they did something with the patch?

Ill go run a Vault with the Mystic Maul and see what numbers i get

[tardy siren]

🤷‍♂️

i have three mauls with me lol

[pale hemlock]

lol yeah i keep my mystc one in my pocket with the dauntless yeetbat\

[tardy siren]

dauntless that has me at almost exactly cap, mystic that's a little above cap, and another mystic that's WAY above cap

with, of course, progressively lower melee damage on each.

[pale hemlock]

lets go see what happens with this lol

[tardy siren]

wait so... if it's doubling the initial melee hit, that's the extra higher number i was seeing... then the Dauntless should win

assuming you are at or near the magic cap, i guess. Maybe even a litltle under it since the shockwave hit itself is so little compared to the melee

I. R. Confuzzled

[pale hemlock]

tbf, its based on fae. Maybe the confusion is intended lmao

[tardy siren]

hahah

[tardy siren]

man what

2 numbers, consistently?

i need to find a consistent Bruiser spawn

i guess i could go into a vault and clear the riffraff

[pale hemlock]

first is Mystic hammer, second is Dauntless

[tardy siren]

i am still mystified at how we have DIFFERENT CAPS

very close! But still different

[pale hemlock]

Theres a 200 Magick power difference between the 2 Mauls

[tardy siren]

yeah and that 200 magic got you 44 damage lmao.

at the cost of 5000 melee xD

hoo boy

[pale hemlock]

lol yeah, trade isnt worth. The cap is probably 300, so the 44 damage is probably fdrom the fact that theres 270 magick on the dauntless so its slightly under that 300 cap

[tardy siren]

so. Why is your cap 2049 and mine is 1980 lmao

[pale hemlock]

i have absolutely no idea lol.
I assume your mauls are 286 gs too right?

[tardy siren]

close, i think one of them has only 2 enchants so it's 281... --- you gotta be kidding me.

Dammit man, i was gonna log off, now i gotta test this

[pale hemlock]

hahaha VENGEANCE
i had logged out when you said maul was getting two hits, so i had to log back int o get the tests done XD

[tardy siren]

lmao

WHY do i sometimes get two hits

my brain hurts. Tomorrow i will get OBS up and running and get some of this ish on video.

a second pair of eyes on the results would be nice

[pale hemlock]

lol, sure. IM looking forward to seeing whatever is going on with your numbers XD

[tardy siren]

ok... everything else is the same... except Maul is now 286 not 281... let's go whack something

[viral pike]

Sorry to jump in but intellect bastilles will spawn the same group every time you fail it. So if you find one that spawns a bruiser it will always spawn a bruiser when you fail. Can confirm it cause I farmed Ichor off an intellect and did over 80+ fails and every fail was the same group

[tardy siren]

Yep, i have a small campsite set up across from an Intellect puzzle in a Hunt realm under teh Blood Moon card, which is my perma farm spot 🙂

but this was when i was farming Fossilized Ichor, it has a Darkweaver but no bruisers. So gotta go find another one.

thanks anyway tho ^^

if i'm lucky i can get a brusier at a nother puzzle in the same realm hehe.

[viral pike]

I’m following this chat for knowledge sake so wanted to help where I could lol

[pale hemlock]

Jeebus, The block changes are ridiculous. I can completely negate the Automaton Knights fire slash. It barely even dents my injury bar

[tardy siren]

o.O

also noted that the AI won't keep a perfect bead on you through dodges lol

at least according to the notes, haven't tested yet

[pale hemlock]

Can confirm. Its basically iframes. I bounced out of a hammerbro swinging at me a couple times before i did the sungiant test with the knife earlier

[tardy siren]

nice

[pale hemlock]

Need to make a pure block efficiency maul and see how high i can push that lol

[pale hemlock]

It would appear that the sacrifice for the no stamina on blocking is a verrrryyyyyy slow drain on the Blocking injury bar

Oh yeah thats BS. why is it critting lol.
Thats with Fero on yeah?

[tardy siren]

yes it is

i am not sure but i THINK the shockwave is hitting the downed guy in the back. Brutality is doing the 15k, flanking is doing the 2695

[pale hemlock]

ohhhh it might be the flanking then

It might be using the same code they use for the knife backstab crit

[tardy siren]

yeah. and the game is just calling it a weakspot hit and giving it the fancy gold font lol

[pale hemlock]

ill slap flanking on my clothes and do another vault run later and see if i start critting

How often is that gold number popping up?

[tardy siren]

very rarely.

but here's a definite double hit.

and it's definitely the maul's damage, because bugs are weak to it.,

and it's got the uparrow

magick with this maul, total, is 292. So a big fat 8 below cap, and sure enough, my baseline maul cap was 1200. and it's doing 1198.

in teresting

it is NOT doing it consistently. Found a bruiser spawn!

[pale hemlock]

So itll probablyu be around 2020 with fero?

[tardy siren]

hit him like 12 times

less than half the hits had double-shots on them. The rest were like yours in the vault, since maul hit and single shockwave

[pale hemlock]

Does the angle matter?

[tardy siren]

Doesn't seem to i was entirely hitting him from the front. I think.

i will try to get some back shots in. but i was definitely not behind the scorpion....

[pale hemlock]

just the overhead swing initial combo starter?

I ask cos the second two hits hit the target in the sides, not the front

GDI, distcrated and left the vault without grabbing the final chest lol

[tardy siren]

nope, swing type doesn't matter. I reset animation and did only overhead swings from the front. This time about 2/.3rd of the hits were doubled.

[pale hemlock]

hmmm Ill grab Flanking and see what happens

[tardy siren]

this is a definite front hit overhand, while he yeets me in the face lol

and the damage is consistent, both the doubled melee strikes, and the shockwave.

[pale hemlock]

interesting. I havent see the doubled hits on maul, just te one handers.

[tardy siren]

TIL Bruisers have no phys resist, just a ton of health. lol

[pale hemlock]

lol

Makes sense i guess XD

[tardy siren]

"I'm tired of your &$*)?!!, Steve"

[pale hemlock]

lol i need to remake my shotty XD

[tardy siren]

this is with a charm of patience... but still.... also: not shown, charm of blindside, which doesn't show on the character sheet lol

and that hit on the bruiser just now.. was without both of them... since we were already in combat xD

why tf does this fabled chitin have hunger mitigation on it -_-

[pale hemlock]

Cos you can turn it into bone

and then intoi food

[tardy siren]

ohhh right. Leather or bone, forgot about the latter.

ehh 15% stamina and some other crap stats. It should never be used lol

[pale hemlock]

INteresting, flanking wont go on the Hermetic capelet lol

[tardy siren]

o.O that's weird

the funniest part of all this is... there's still nothing faster at clearing a group than the uncapped quake cast.

especially since you can just stand back and laugh

[pale hemlock]

Quake is filthy, i refuse to use lol

[tardy siren]

oh look the bruiser is still alive, say 'allo to my leetle friend

[pale hemlock]

It should be damasge OR crowd control... not both >_>

[tardy siren]

pretty sure it's supposed to be.

I'm coalating all my info and numbers and preparing a report to send in. I doubt the devs know about ANY of this silliness.

i just hope someone actually reads it lol

[pale hemlock]

feel free to send em in my clips too lol

[tardy siren]

heh will do. I'll use those two screenshots for starters, perfect example of why current magic cap is broken.

lose 5000 damage per hit to gain 44 shockwave pulse damage -_- as the kids say, RIP

and what's funny is, you can't even say "well it's aoe" because the maul is ALREADY an aoe weapon xD

.....i'm probably the only person disappointed they fixed repair costs. I have six million dust to burn through lol

[pale hemlock]

wellll .. Sometimes it is. WHen the side hits dont CLUNK the ground lol

[tardy siren]

or the walls, or your recruit, or... yeah -_-

[pale hemlock]

hah, i only ever keep a max of 100k dust in my pocket XD

[tardy siren]

i stupidly, early on, converted 2500 T3 to dust before we knew what the "exchange rate" was

just to see what would happen

six frickin' million dust is what happened

[pale hemlock]

I .. have absolutely shot my recruit in the back of the head multiple times when she just waltzs right in front of me as im lining up[ a distance shot

[tardy siren]

OMG it's like FO4 all over again. Except unlike FO4 i can't mod this one to fix it -_-

[pale hemlock]

It actually tells you how much dust you would get if you converted it right in the tooltip lmao

[tardy siren]

it gives you a slider, yeah, but i was like "lol this can't be right" and also "what is the game gonna do with 6m dust?" andwer turns out to be, make six stacks in my Essence tab of 1m each lol

the sad part? the game doesn't do ANY kind of sane "pull from smallest stack first" or even "pull from first stack always"

so now i have this

[pale hemlock]

No no. Right there, on the tooltip. It tell syou exactly hoiw much the stack would extract into lol

[tardy siren]

-_-

oh yeah the whole stack, sure

[pale hemlock]

It does this with ammo too >_>

[tardy siren]

I KNOW

and every time i change ammo types, the rounds i unload do NOT stack with the original stack

/tablew

[pale hemlock]

An actual image of pain.

[tardy siren]

iip

lolfail

what have you done lmao

[pale hemlock]

Fun factm, this Hunt map does not have a single intellect puzzle.

[tardy siren]

did you make all your ammo from differnt ingots at first?

[pale hemlock]

Nope

[tardy siren]

...

[pale hemlock]

Thats all made from gold

[tardy siren]

lol i've been using silver bullets. if the undead show up i'm set

or werewolves

[pale hemlock]

I batch craft around 600 bullets at a time whenever i run out lol

[tardy siren]

but now, crafted all say (ammo) and the unloaded rounds don't have the suffix at all. And don't stack

AND when i reload, it doesn't take the "loose" rounds first -_-

[pale hemlock]

DOesnt matter what you make it with, Slingbow ammo ALWAYS has the Tin suffix

[tardy siren]

lmao

that's odd

oh yeah for a while all unloaded shells from the shotty and rifle said (Tin) also

now they're just blank

funny we have every metal in the universe except the one you actually make bullets out of....

[pale hemlock]

So. Flanking makes Maul get the dupe hit

back to back

The final test is seeing what happens with a sickle and shockwave

[tardy siren]

...but i was definitely whacking that Bruiser in the face, head-on

[wind anvil]

What the highest damage people have got on the axepicks without boosting? Seen a few examples but they all look boosted to me.

[pale hemlock]

You can see in the first shot, i smacked front on, no Flanking damage bonus.
Seconds shot was from the back, now you see the duplicated hits both getting the flank bonus as well as shockwave getting boosted too

So Flanking enables the duplicate hit by the look of it

[tardy siren]

But the first shot has 2 idenitcal damage numbers...

[pale hemlock]

So does the second.

[tardy siren]

oh damage bonus gotcha

[pale hemlock]

Whatever code makes Flanking tick is giving the duplicate hit effect aswell

[tardy siren]

eggecy lol

[pale hemlock]

The rest of the flanking code is working as it should, boosting the damage from behind lol

[tardy siren]

weeeeeeird

[pale hemlock]

my hands do weird things to the keyboard sometimes and i send before double checking, no judgy my broken hands :<

[tardy siren]

haha hey, i typo faster than i type, i just correct most of it before it goes thru xD

[pale hemlock]

SInce the Hammer gets the dupe hit as well, i would wager that they the KNife code to make all 3 one handers

[tardy siren]

thanks for testing all this with me, i thought i was losing my mind. or whatever's left of it.

[pale hemlock]

lol, np. Its been entertainment while i want for my friends to be available to Helldive XD

[tardy siren]

heh

[pale hemlock]

I forsee one hell of a bug report writeup in your future lol

I wanna spy on the meeting THAT report gets brought up in XD

[tardy siren]

since they want "one issue per" it's probably gonna have to be several reports lol

[pale hemlock]

Hah, oh lord. Ping me the reports so i can go upvote them when you get em done XD

Id argue you could fit it all in one report. This whole thing was discovered through Shockwave lol

Shockwave clearly has a hand in whatever is going on lol

Waaait. I need to test knife with Hermetics now .. see if it also gets doubled >_<

[fierce gazelle]

How deep does the Nightingale crafting go. WHAT IF I create farm plots our of Advanced Yew Lumber, and, and water them with a Watering can that's built with Pellucidic 🤓

[pale hemlock]

turbo option for LMB, just hold LMB to buy in bulk XD

Thats sometyhing easy for the devs to fix though. Just needs a buy quantity slider lol

[tardy siren]

Good morning class! It's time for
MORE STUPID KNIFE TRICKS

This is the knife i made, going on the idea that all you need is as much crit as possible (once you reach the 300 magick cap):

those two numbers i added to the right are:

• Plain normal swing damage with no bonuses or procs: 4113
• Quake damage per tick, again without Brutality or Flanking or anything else: 3125

But the knife base damage, and "crit hit" number, is way low. So then i made this knife:

• Quake damage per tick was LESS, so confirms that "crit hit" or base damage matters not at all to Quake. 2820 per tick

• but damage per swing was hugely greater, 6333

So with the second knife (same gear and magic capped in both cases) you lose 300 quake damage per tick.... but you gain over 2 THOUSAND damage per swing. And of course that translates to much bigger flanking and brutality hits swinging the knife as well.

I also tried the new knife with Shockwave and it was complete mayhem.

So obviously the original knife method (all crit) is perfectly viable, we've been using it and it melts things (tho technically we ARE overlevel for everything, since 220 is the best the game has). If you want to hang back and laugh, that's the way to go.
But if you're feeling more "hands on" and would prefer to also engage in melee with the knife, effectively, then the second knife is overall better, because the measly 300 points per quake tick doesn't come CLOSE to how much more damage you're doing wading in a stabbing everything while it flops around.

TL;DR use the second knife lol unless you hate melee then nm

Then just to make it more ridiculous.... i maximized my ranged damage, lost some melee % and am slightly under the magick cap (278) and it barely mattersl. still doing like 2700 per quake tick, for example, and more knife damage than the first knife, without gimping my guns.

jeebus killing small groups of bound, with the second knife, is actually faster with shockwave now lmao

[jovial knoll]

hey my bad how did you use th 5 ichors? when it only requires 1 cut gem? trynna remake this but unsure what went into ti, I'm getting the titans fingernail rn ig im asking how to stack the stats? also when it comes to the ferocity, do i just apply it on one equipment or does it stack?

[tardy siren]

so it requires 1 cut gem, but it also IIRC takes 2 glass - and "glass" is made from 2 of any gem

[tardy siren]

Put Ferocity on the lantern, usually, so it's only in effect when you have your 1h casting weapon out, and that way it won't nerf your guns

[jovial knoll]

ah, ty!

[teal willow]

For someone who hasn't gotten that deep into gearing yet, but is following these threads - why lantern offhand instead of umbrella in case I fall in a vault? What does the lantern do besides light?

Also, are these crazy knives better than an axe or maul?

[tardy siren]

Mystic Lantern provides around 95 magick

they are MUCH better than a maul, since all this silliness works from scaling off the Crit stat - and mauls have no crit. Axes are currently broken, Ferocity doesn't work with them, so they can't be used.

[jovial knoll]

do you happen to have the full sheet for the lantern you made? also what armor set goes with these? or should i just put on any? i like the way your build is described hence been wanting to mirror it out

[tardy siren]

i've been using the Hermetic formal shirt to boost magick - paired with the lantern, that means you need less magick on the knife. Explorer hat and Calcularian gloves, because i primarily maximized my Ranged Damage. Because while all this Quake and Shockwave silliness is fun in groups of bound etc. it does you no good vs. a boss, you still need good ranged damage for that.

and tbh i just use Explorer boots made from Harpy for the speed boost. It's not huge but we do a LOT of running around in this game lol

[jovial knoll]

oh god i know, I hope in the future we are able to do a temporary tame on the prey animals that run from us, use them as mount after we catch them for the time period we're present in the realm.

[tardy siren]

haha

[jovial knoll]

the trickster card is whats been getting me around but it takes 72 business days for me to land anywhere

[tardy siren]

lol

[pale hemlock]

Hey @tardy siren did you try the knife with Hermetics?

[tardy siren]

er, with hermetics what?

i have a hermetic formal shirt, if that's what you mean?

[pale hemlock]

Hermetics Flame enchant lol

it changes the strike damage of the weapon to fire (Allows Maul to do full damage to things that usually resistant)

Im curious if knife will do weirds things with it again

[tardy siren]

hmm dunno. I remember the DoT from it being really underwhelming, but not sure if that would scale with Ferocity the way the others do o.O

[pale hemlock]

Yeah the DoT is pretty low in general, Im more interested in how knife reacts to having its damage type change from slash to fire

[fierce gazelle]

Sun Giant (Hard) 1 Shot - 1.46 million damage (no exploits)

https://youtu.be/aD7W4fSHPfo

@brazen notch 🙂

[brazen notch]

Awesome.

You can now 2 shot the sun giant on extreme @fierce gazelle

It only has 2.6 mil health

[pale hemlock]

Might take more than 2 on extreme lol, a big portion of that damage comes from blindside. Also a bit harder to hit his medalion when hes flailing all over the place casting a sadnstorm on your head lol

[fierce gazelle]

I shall try it next time I'm on

[brazen notch]

I found out while he's flopping around it gives time for patience to come back up. By the time he's about to cast it. You can get a shot off with the patience buff and stagger lock him.

[devout hound]

Been trying to work out the best way to take out Jana on extreme. Latest effort is to chug down 3 different Nectars and play the Duelist card. The below is with completely legit gear and gun:

[devout hound]

Doing likewise on the extreme desert vault can 1 shot the Sun Giant 🙂

[fierce gazelle]

pew pew pew, very nice damage. Looks like you will 2 shots extreme Jana with that damage. Curious how much your damage drops without the Nectars? That's probably the most "expensive" part. So far my tests have been no food, no minor card so I was getting maximum "return on investment" hehe. But I fully expected to use a card and nectar to try get the 1 shot on extreme just for fun. It doesn't look like you are using charm of venom which can give you some more damage when poisoned, which you can self induce by eating meat with charm of herbivore activate. If you put herbivore on an item that you don't use for combat like the spyglass then you can just equip that only when you want to induce the poison.

Oh but be aware you need 100% poison resist to not take damage from the poison. This is important because if you take damage, charm of pateince will deactivate.

[devout hound]

Yeah, no Venom, I thought about it but wasn't sure how best to do it or what to drop. And yes, Jana is 2 shot, follow up shot was around 1.3m so somewhat overkill. Is it possible to do the Eoten with Blindside? No obvious weak spot in tree mode. I tried it, had some trouble and died, but on going back managed to get a couple of back to back 1.7m volleys to kill him but I don't think that was with Blindside activated

[fierce gazelle]

From the sounds of it Eoten is the most difficult just because of his hard to hit weakspots. I haven't done any testing on it myself.

[brazen notch]

@devout hound can just put herbivore on spyglass

Then venom on clothing

[devout hound]

Tried it with the addition of Venom - unfortunately the screenshot isn't very clear but the damage number can just about be read - 3,234,647!
@brazen notch @fierce gazelle

A further idea...do the vaults count as underground? Charm of the Subterranean

[orchid copper]

It says right on the charm does not count vaults

[devout hound]

It does indeed, damn

[orchid copper]

That's a massive crit 3.2mil far higher than the 1 mil others were getting

[devout hound]

Cancel that run then - will just try and get a better screenshot of the above. Just wish it didn't take me so long to get through the vault to the final room

[viral pike]

well ice tests with no consumables, except a meat for getting poisoned. this guy used 3 nectars. still a large amount of damage regardless

[devout hound]

And a Duelist card

[orchid copper]

as it says on the card, if you don't get hit, then you need not fear

[viral pike]

kinda proves that with some prep you dont even need to truly min max

[orchid copper]

I'm not sure cards being played in vaults is intended

[viral pike]

i know its been said that pub vaults shouldnt be built in, but cant find indication of private. granted discord search sucks so i could be missing something

[devout hound]

Ran it again to try and get a clearer image - but only (heh) got 2.8m damage. So did it again in the belief I must have missed a step or a buff ran out and again got the same 3,234,647. Is this normal to get the exact same amount? I thought there would be some variance. Thankfully I got a much clearer screenshot this time:

[devout hound]

So the full build I was using was:
All Pursuit Paradox shotgun with T4 Swamp Wood handle (firing Ice) made with Forge minor card and crit, ranged damage and magick infusions

Humbaba Explorer's hat (didn't have enough Jana when I made it but makes no difference for damage) with ranged damage, crit and melee infusions. Could possibly get a marginal bit more swapping the melee for magick but probably little in it

Hermetic's Humbaba Formal Shirt and Desert Fibre Boots both with Magick infusions. Possibly more damage available using T3 Fabled Carnute but didn't have any when I made them. Think the shirt had Fingernail buttons.

T3 Carnute (not fabled) Calcularian gloves with ranged damage, crit and melee infusions (again possibly a tad more with a magick infusion)

Running the following Charms - Spellsword, Patience, Sniper, Venom, Called Shots, Blindside, Morale

Casting Assasin's Sight

Eating (drinking) 3 Nectars (all with slightly different ingredients). This is done after eating some meat with the Herbivore Charm on my Spyglass to enable the Venom charm to work

And finally using the Duelist Minor Realm card

I think I got everything - kept on forgetting steps when I was making the runs. Oh yeah, I mostly clapped

[fierce gazelle]

Add charm of momentum and run at him and shoot 😄

[devout hound]

Crossed my mind but I was having enough trouble as it was taking the shot and getting a screenshot - V to F12 with one hand whilst the other is on the mouse aiming

[fierce gazelle]

Set the alt fire (V) to your mouse thumb button instead 🙂

[devout hound]

I already use that for Push to Talk - would almost certainly cause accidents, but yeah, should probably set something up for it

[pale hemlock]

Alternative would be using shadowplay or the gamebar to record clip after the shot and screenshot the video lol
Its what i usually do when im trying to get a specific screenshot.

[brazen notch]

awesome

[brazen notch]

oh definitely i hate fighting him for weakpoint shots

[orchid copper]

It says specifically on the charm that it doesn't work in vaults

[brazen notch]

thanks on the correction

[orchid copper]

no worries, I'm interested in this discussion seeing how high we can get damage without exploits

[gray kestrel]

Legitimate or not, make sure not to do it in a public vault else it might hurt somebody's feewings.

[brazen notch]

true lol. they cry because they cant min max properly 🤣

[brisk spade]

OMG 3.2mil dmg, MUST BE HACKS NEEDS TO BE NERFED 🤣

lol

[gray kestrel]

If enough of them mess their diapers over it, it could force the devs to nerf things just to get some peace and quiet.

[brazen notch]

i wonder how far we can push the damage. but its already reaching the ceiling

[brisk spade]

This game has so many ways to stack stats, it's literally part one of the main parts of the game.

[brazen notch]

yeah stacking buffs like this will make any range weapon hit hard.

[gray kestrel]

Extreme vaults would be impossible vaults without min maxing of some kind.

[brisk spade]

🤷‍♂️