Can you confirm SUPERVIVE will be around for a long time?

[timid aurora]

The perfect little angel

[unique breach]

mods are literally mad at me

tf are you talking about bro

[radiant notch]

That seems to be his thing.

[shrewd urchin]

Cool that u think its negative to point out issues, but again, if you dont want to face the issues, go have ur dream discussion in private. Im not going to time someone out for being realistic

[unique breach]

didnt u tell people to kill themselves cause they didnt like your furry champ design?

[timid aurora]

@lime skiff he's not gonna get it bro

[shrewd urchin]

Yes because you literally havent said a single substantial thing you want me to ban someone out of ur discussion because hes telling u the game is unlikely to survive on a dead playerbase

Like get a grip

Be realistic or dont try to argue things lol

[timid aurora]

You just keep ignoring what we are saying.

[lime skiff]

You are wording things differently but in the end it's the same. I am not talking about realism, whether he is right or wrong. I think similar. I am just saying it's not helping being negative 24/7

[shrewd urchin]

Im not youre just mad lol

[lime skiff]

I really don't know lmao

[unique breach]

coping 24/7 would be just as bad tho

[lime skiff]

He must be trolling there is no way

[unique breach]

like neither do anything, sure ill give u that

[shrewd urchin]

I read the channel i do that on modhelp pings in general you cant gaslight me on a conversation i can literally just check

[timid aurora]

Its depressing honestly.

[unique breach]

but this is literally a thread about the longevity of the game

and ur saying

[lime skiff]

I am not saying go cope either. I am asking you to not speak negatively. How is that so hard?

[unique breach]

"ooo hes being negative"

[shrewd urchin]

Dont be negative on a discussion on the games survival waaa waaaa

Youre trolling because ure telling me the truth waaaaa

[lime skiff]

This is ragebait

[timid aurora]

It's like talking to a brick wall

[unique breach]

i agree

[shrewd urchin]

Yea me too

As i said if u dont want negativity on these topics just have the discussion in private its inevitable

[timid aurora]

@shrewd urchin can I ask you this. Is there a difference between trolling and facing hard facts about the state of the game?

Just in general. Is there a difference.

[shrewd urchin]

Trolling involves some kind of malicious intent, dont get me wrong, pair of nuts ragebaits and becomes hostile enough for us to time him out here and there, but so far ive only been invalidated without any actual points being made by u guyw

And it perfectly reflects how the discussion went earlier

Because again

Ive read it.

[timid aurora]

Okay, our argument is that nuts sabotages threads far too often with rage bait and hostility.

[unique breach]

bro since when is that what this thread is about

[shrewd urchin]

He does, but hes right here

[timid aurora]

Not just this thread. Where negativity is more valid than others because of the title

Lots of threads

This weekend was the nuts and fredini show in every thread

[unique breach]

now the goal isnt have a discussion its get nuts banned for disagreeing in this one

[shrewd urchin]

U want me to act against him because hes disruptive somewhere else just because you dont like his opinion

[unique breach]

literally

[shrewd urchin]

Good to know

[shrewd urchin]

Im outtie thanks for telling me exactly how delusional it really is lol

[unique breach]

be safe have a good evening

[timid aurora]

You little brown noser

[unique breach]

i started this by pissing him off

[shrewd urchin]

He didnt turn this one into a shitshow, you did.

[unique breach]

id consider it more playful banter since im usually a problem

[timid aurora]

You are purposefully twisting my words.

[unique breach]

i wouldve told u to be safe and have a good evening too

for the record

[radiant notch]

Didn’t you intentionally miss the point to waste everyone’s time, and you’re still continuing to do that?

[burnt summit]

nerryl I think ur just a lil bias towards pair of nuts because he shares your opinion

from what I've seen he is just basically perma trolling

[radiant notch]

That’s basically it.

[burnt summit]

Not saying he should get banned or anything

[shrewd urchin]

No hes an asshat 99% of the time and im aware but please scroll up and read the actual discussion

[burnt summit]

but he is in fact just kinda ragebaiting most of the time

[radiant notch]

I don’t know how them and Miles are friends when they’re complete opposites.

[unique breach]

i have plenty of regular discussions ty

and i havent ragebaited in like 3 days i dont think

discord got boring

[shrewd urchin]

This time he was aight honestly, if you see other disruptive behaviour from him you can always @ me tho. Ive banned other people for the same behaviour and opinions in the past

[radiant notch]

You say that like it’s something to be proud of.

[unique breach]

this is basically a deadlock discord at this point and yall mad that someone is still typing at all is crazy

i contribute to threads

i joke around

like, what do u want haha

im in trouble for saying "actually elluna is good" in elluna is bad threads?

im in trouble for saying "actually the game is struggling" in longevity thread?

[shrewd urchin]

Nah youre literally just annoying and have been on my radar 99% of the time theyre right about that

[unique breach]

havent done anything mean or targetting to anyone

[shrewd urchin]

Not here

[unique breach]

im not here to argue about every message ive ever sent in the discord

neither r u

now the topic is oh nuts is this and that

not syaing u

[shrewd urchin]

That shouldnt be the point of the discussion to begin with do go back to normal for now.

I think enough has been said

[unique breach]

agree

[shrewd urchin]

Stay on topic

[timid aurora]

Supervive is going to succeed and last for 1000 years because I said so.

[unique breach]

and i disagree 🙂

if the current path continues

[timid aurora]

Back to normal 🙂

[unique breach]

but i sure hope ur right ❤️

but there are reasons to think ur wrong

[timid aurora]

Sure.

I'm worried too

[unique breach]

no i dont think u r

[timid aurora]

Ok?

[shrewd urchin]

Everyones worried to a different degree i think

I want this game to be on a 50k playerbase every day badly

Unrestricted queues

Saros finally fixed xD

[unique breach]

same, and i keep bringin new ppl in, a few have stuck around

[shrewd urchin]

But every step forward has been 10 steps back for so long now

[unique breach]

its just hard to shill this game to someone knowing the current state and knowing exactly what will make them stop playing

and they bring it up and im just like

"yeah but eventually you might have fun despite those things"

"maybe one day you can join scrims!"

[radiant notch]

I haven’t played the game in a while. What did they change that’s caused a lot of people to complain?

[unique breach]

hahahahahahahaa

[shrewd urchin]

Like 1.0 was the patch where i was like "ooh ma lawd im gonna get everyone back on on a fixed and gud game" and then i saw armory and a friend of mine has asked me if the game is p2w now like the day after the patchnotes dropped lol

[shrewd urchin]

Have u seen armory?

[unique breach]

day of release i was streaming to a friend and he said "damn this looks fun"

[radiant notch]

Oh yeah, I did. Did they change it even more?

[unique breach]

looked at steam reviews

read "p2w for items"

wont even listen to me

i say its not actually like that

he says "well thats what the reviews say"

idek how they would fix that

but tbf even if he gave it a shot when he sees armory he would uninstall anyway

not like i would win that one

[shrewd urchin]

No but since it takes them long to adress things and the system wasnt really adressing core playstyles enough to begin with, new problems came up throughout meta progression just in a way where everyone basicslly didnt have the items to abuse the new flavour of the week
So it was 10%fun added and 90% frustration as everyone predicted already

[radiant notch]

Yeah, I remember how simple the Early Access Armory was.
Now it feels pretty railroaded into certain playstyles.

[shrewd urchin]

Its just a very flawed system that kept on givinh u new issues

[radiant notch]

Not only that, but it’s even more RNG than it was.

[timid aurora]

So nuts, do a little thought experiment with me here.

When you troll and exaggerate and ragebait. You have that same effect on people that come to this discord looking to learn.

I AM NOT SAYING THAT YOU CANT SAY ANYTHING NEGATIVE OR HOLD NEGATIVE OPINIONS. YOU CAN. You can share them and discuss and and you should.

But when you go full ragebait, like we all know you do sometimes, you have that effect on potential new players.

[shrewd urchin]

And also good luck starting into it now with lvl 1 items into mostly lvl3s and people reccomending playstyles broadly thst dont work with 1 star items

[unique breach]

i actually teach plenty of people and have plenty of regular conversations in this discord, you just only inhabit this one

which doesnt make sense cause i dont even bait or whatever

[radiant notch]

It also has that effect on pretty much anyone trying to act in good faith.

[unique breach]

in this thread

[unique breach]

also do u mind staying on topic?

im trying to discuss supervive

[radiant notch]

And I’m pretty sure Nuts is just pulling stuff out from his butt.

[shrewd urchin]

Huhhhhh

[unique breach]

guy who doesnt play the game is typing and he knows me super well somehow

[shrewd urchin]

I have the same opinions so do i also pull stuff outta my ass now

I also got a lot of my friends into the game

[radiant notch]

No, because you’re a mod and not Nuts.

[unique breach]

holy shit he edited his message to change ass to butt

[shrewd urchin]

He said behind tbf

[unique breach]

ah i misread

dammit

i rescend

[shrewd urchin]

Cant even read should ban him fr

[radiant notch]

Yeah, it sounded too pretentious.

[unique breach]

on god

[timid aurora]

Thine bottom sir

[shrewd urchin]

I like butt more, worth

[radiant notch]

“Thine mother’s spacious buttocks can envelop your lord’s whole domain!”

[shrewd urchin]

Holy shit the lord can use domain expansion

[unique breach]

in fact if u would like i dont mind teaching u as well k&a

im actually the nicest guy ever while in game and have great comms

[radiant notch]

I doubt that.

[unique breach]

dont 😄

im teaching more new players than anyone else id imagine while leveling my alt this weekend

[timid aurora]

We can run a game, but you ain't teaching me nothing nuts

[unique breach]

oh i dont do boosting

pretty sure its against the rules

[timid aurora]

We were so close to having a non contentious moment nuts

And you just had to go back to your roots

[unique breach]

u took it as not a joke thats on u

cause it WAS funny

[timid aurora]

I chuckled

[unique breach]

i know u did

u laugh at my other ones too

maybe its just sexual tension

between the two of us

[timid aurora]

Now kith

[unique breach]

i did win this round

let the record show

[shrewd urchin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/189158123649499137/1414177043699990620/GwpmLGVWAAAAf-W.gif

[radiant notch]

I see Nuts has gone from regular strawmanning to sexual harassment.

[shrewd urchin]

Me in this discussion basically

How is it harassment if the other party is chill about it 💀

[unique breach]

https://tenor.com/view/chess-checkmate-checkmate-chess-chess-check-mate-independence-day-chess-independence-day-checkmate-gif-15030758237643481254

[shrewd urchin]

Didnt ask my eyes for consent tho

[unique breach]

ill get it from u written next time

before i start

[shrewd urchin]

Thanks

[turbid gulch]

I didnt expect this long discussions when I made the thread

1k messages already dang

[timid aurora]

Well if anything you can count activity as a positive sign 🙂

[tardy falcon]

I dont think I've had less fun with supervive since the fucking lottery update where every 4th item was random and that was supposed to be fun

I was promised to be able to play the game how I want and the armory has not delivered

We introduced a bunch of cdr and then blanket nerfed it so cdr is still mandatory on everyone who ran it but now they all feel like shit

Every single item update has been worse than fucking closed beta launch

[burnt summit]

item balance has literally been best

[tardy falcon]

The armory turns off every new player

[burnt summit]

CDR is turbo broken and deserved nerfs

with the armory system in general I agree

there's better ways to implement it

[tardy falcon]

You cant add cdr like that and then blanket nerf it

[burnt summit]

yes you can when it's CLEARLY busted

[tardy falcon]

Everyone who used to run it feels bad

They should've nerfed songbow

And kept isochron

[burnt summit]

timestaff was busted too

this was a problem in Beta too

[tardy falcon]

Not to songbows extent

[burnt summit]

where everyone was just running double CDR and calling it a day

it was single-handedly making item builds nonexistent

[tardy falcon]

How are crysta and felix supposed to play the game now

[burnt summit]

crysta was beyond broken with the CDR items since 1.0

[tardy falcon]

Cdr being useless now just make them useless

And make me useless for playing them

[burnt summit]

her being able to literally spam RMB with basically no CD you're telling me is supposed to stay in the game ?

[tardy falcon]

As opposed to making them useless?

[burnt summit]

felix with songbow aswell was a menace

[tardy falcon]

Yes?

[burnt summit]

his one weakness which was movement wasn't really a problem anymore

crysta isn't useless

she just takes more skill now

instead of brainlessly spamming rmb

[tardy falcon]

Oh your clueless

I get it

[burnt summit]

I'm clueless ?

[tardy falcon]

I dont see the game making it to season 2 icl

[burnt summit]

See now you're the one that's clueless

Season 2 is ~1 month away

[shrewd urchin]

XD

[burnt summit]

how can you possibly believe it won't make it to season 2

[burnt summit]

at least people don't just run CDR and call it a day anymore

there's other builds that are viable

not saying some items aren't still busted like VI/ER

[shrewd urchin]

So what happened throughout armory is that we first only introduced one damage type and its abusers were op, then we nerfed said damagetypes that we created and people that were able to build to outsustain were op because there isnt enough dmg anymore

on top of hunters playing rotations being op on cdr

because we had linear options right next to high % cdr

ALWAYS A BAD IDEA BTW

and then after we nerfed those, just normal tank statcheck bs is op now

if you only have one viable option its not balanced

[burnt summit]

yes which is also going to get nerfed...

[shrewd urchin]

imagine

[burnt summit]

there isn't jjust one viable option

[shrewd urchin]

and now hear me out on this crazy take

imagine

[tardy falcon]

THEN EVERYTHING FEELS LIKE SHIT

WHAT ARE WE TALKING ABOUT

[shrewd urchin]

we design a system that has multiple viable options instead of nerfing until answers become op enough to become the new option

[burnt summit]

if everything feels like shit, nothing feels like shit

[shrewd urchin]

XD

thjats not how it works

[burnt summit]

if damage dealers do less damage than it is only normal for people who are too tanky to BE less tanky

[tardy falcon]

I have lost all hope for this playerbase

[shrewd urchin]

You nerf the answer on something potentially broken, the potential becomes the status quo

[burnt summit]

nerfing CDR was always a good idea

[shrewd urchin]

but did they buff other options at the same time to make these characters viable as an answer in the pool?

No they just nerfed them, so now these characters are ass

[burnt summit]

crysta

isn't ass

nerryl

[shrewd urchin]

yeah sure bro xD

[burnt summit]

what hunters are you specifically referring to

yes she's nto ass

she's still good in ranked

literally ask Fuzu

easily top 3 Crysta players EU

[shrewd urchin]

im talking about vivetanks being completely off the charts with no viable answers

[burnt summit]

still says she's really good after recent patch

you just speak

without having all of the knowledge

[shrewd urchin]

"oh but crysta isnt complete dogshit" everyone but KP on a vive er base is dogshit atm

[burnt summit]

they preemptively nerfed vive infusor

clearly not enough

which they now know

it's just that simple

[shrewd urchin]

theyll nerf that and then crysta will be worse than drainers again because that shit just lost its most powerfull answer

thats just the cycle weve been in for months now btw

[tardy falcon]

If you just keep nerfing things dont feel good in comparison

Everything just feels bad

[burnt summit]

"don't feel good"

I'm sorry you're not able to spam RMB anymore

[shrewd urchin]

nerfing everything with no intention of keeping answers in the game just creates broken metas

this has been bad historically

[burnt summit]

Clearly you thought you had a modicum of skill doing that so it's my bad for believing otherwise

[burnt summit]

they're not just nerfing everything

[tardy falcon]

It feels like im stuck in an infinite loop

[burnt summit]

they're still in semi-beginning stages of actually doing item balancing for 1.0

[tardy falcon]

Where i have to watch supervive die again and again

[burnt summit]

which I think they've done absolutely fantastically so far

everything we've asked them to nerf, they have

[shrewd urchin]

They couldve also just buffed or added more burstcaster items instead of relying on broken cdr stats to keep playstyles in the game, but instead they nerfed the only viable burstcaster item in the game on the same patch because they simply lack an understanding for how their own game is played on a higher level.

[tardy falcon]

And when I try to warn people they say dumbass shit like this

[shrewd urchin]

Name me one buff since 1.0 that reasonably changed the meta.

[burnt summit]

Basically everything they've done in patches since 1.0-1.01 has been at the direction of high elo players

[shrewd urchin]

yes shiv got nerfed reasonably 3 weeks after we started telling them

[shrewd urchin]

No lmfao

[burnt summit]

Literally yes.

[tardy falcon]

And then she got buffed after btw

The next patch

Cant make this shit up

[burnt summit]

You don't even know what they have going on behind the scenes

[shrewd urchin]

Restrictions are still in the game and this guy is telling me they patch the game for us lmao

[burnt summit]

Once again you speak with limited knowledge

that I can't disclose

[shrewd urchin]

dont act all high and mighty just because u heard some shit like i didnt lmao

[obtuse linden]

Wait... you like being one shot? Cus idk bout you, I'm not a fan of that.

[burnt summit]

No I didn't "hear some shit"

[tardy falcon]

ttk is already down

[burnt summit]

I can tell you from personal experience the devs have been A LOT more connected with the high elo community.

[tardy falcon]

If crysta cant burst what does she do

[shrewd urchin]

the problem is that a full combo kills you on every character but burstcasters, thats where the issue happens

I also would love a slower ttk

dont get me wrong

[burnt summit]

And as I said a lot of the pain points there have been in general, are getting fixed.

[shrewd urchin]

but you cant have one and not have the other and call it balance if that makes sense

[burnt summit]

on every character ?

[shrewd urchin]

cool but ive been on the rodeo for a long while and we had this shit really really often and generally, i just stopped believing they will because the span of things that need fixing is so broad that whatever u think theyll achieve is just unrealistic atp

[shrewd urchin]

almost, yes, if you count out burstcasters, i tested it in practise on green armor vs felix bot

joule and crysta perform the worst on 1 rotation

bishop the best

but bishops 1shot is also the hardest to do imo

[tardy falcon]

Is this post cdr nerf

How did felix rank

[obtuse linden]

Probably sure the only thing actually some shotting was the item you're referring to. That was kinda my point. Even if they can kill faster not luke I die insta to 1 single ability on every character.(fucking tetra bro)

[burnt summit]

Carbine ?

Jin ?

Myth?

Saros ?

what exactly are we counting as a "oneshot" here ?

[shrewd urchin]

saros has his bubble, myth can wallpin to kill in a low timeframe jin and carbine dont oneshot

[burnt summit]

saros bubble can't oneshot

neither can myth if she wall stuns

shrike can't one shot

shiv can't either

kingpin can't

oath can't

elluna can't

celeste can't

tetra can't anymore

mercury can't

eva can't (only in specific scenarios I guess)

[shrewd urchin]

Bro is gonna make me pull up practise and redo everything just to prove a point

[tardy falcon]

I feel like a saros full combo will definitely kill you

[burnt summit]

I mean you can explain to me how any of those hunters have a oneshot capability

shrike literally cannot oneshot

[shrewd urchin]

still does, it was unaffected by nerfs - maybe burning palm

[shrewd urchin]

id have to check directly but she definetly was able to onetap on a single lmb off of stun during release, i dont think items were affected

[burnt summit]

You can't say "every character" and then it's only true for less than half

[tardy falcon]

I dont think shrike has a traditional 1 shot but nerryl said 1 rotation not necessarily a one shot

And she can def kill you on one rotation

[burnt summit]

ok but 1 rotation on a non-moving bot ? Is this what we're considering a "oneshot"

it just sounds so fucking disingenuous to say that.

[tardy falcon]

You can make an argument that its harder for shrike to kill you when you move obv

[shrewd urchin]

god forbid people are able to hit full combos on real people too but dont actually deal damage which is my point

[obtuse linden]

Ig it's mb for calling it a kneshot, but something that kills you almost instantly really feels like one.

[tardy falcon]

But like the point is that they can

[shrewd urchin]

which was the point yeah

[tardy falcon]

And crysta cant

[burnt summit]

My entire point is that a full combo on most hunters does not lead to death in most if not all scenarios

[tardy falcon]

I just dont think thats true

[shrewd urchin]

yeah its not, meap is probably looking at it from the current meta perspective which i dont blame him for, people are tankier than basestats, but generally, most hunters still sit around low 2000 or below 2000 basehp on max, midgame thats even less but most items in the game are super frontloaded so earlier in the game, as long as u carry items, the damage potential is really high

its this entire thing of "we lowered ttk" when its literally the same - the few things that are broken rn and will get nerfed and then were just back to how it was

[burnt summit]

See the thing is they didn't say they lowered TTK, at least not across the board.

[shrewd urchin]

which again, i didnt point out because the oneshot is broken or anything, but to point out that every character is rewarded by alot of dmg throughout a single rotation

but burstcasters.

[tardy falcon]

I def didnt hallucinate them saying this no?

[burnt summit]

They've literally disclosed that we will see a lower TTK when items are sitting at 1**, a little lower when items are at 2*, and around the same when at 3*

[tardy falcon]

They for sure said they lowered ttk

[shrewd urchin]

it wasnt said on the announcements but it was said in the threads leading up to 1.0 by devs and also in the interviews

100%

also across the board

i specifically remember jess saying its lower before item levelups

[burnt summit]

no, safelocked said "she feels like it's lower across the board"

but as I've said they literally said when everyone has 3* items it will feel close to the same

[tardy falcon]

If i find any piece of marketing that says they lowered ttk

[shrewd urchin]

thats cool ttk was already faster with lvl 1 items tho lmao

[burnt summit]

no it wasn't ?

[shrewd urchin]

the reason they made that claim is because they raised alot of the basehp, but the dmg we had in the game by then on all lvl1s was higher than before leading up to faster ttk in theory but also in game since the meta was ttk heavy af

With shiv being rampant

[burnt summit]

You can literally ask everyone in sEU if they believe ttk was lower at beginning of 1.0 and they will say yes

[shrewd urchin]

I literally talked to multiple people during that timeframe that agree with me on this lol

and its not even me saying that i felt that way

[burnt summit]

I played basically every single day when it released and the game felt fucking awesome, besides some things that were overlooked like wu and shiv

[shrewd urchin]

mathematically it wasnt slower

if i take 1 less lmb than before to kill is my ttk slower

?

[shrewd urchin]

cool but if you really felt that way thats great, what i saw is the game beginning to die one day in because armory was just a flawed system

not being to get my friends anymore for example

[tardy falcon]

Yo why lie

On the internet

[burnt summit]

From everyone I've talked to they've all agreed that TTK was a lot better at beginning of 1.0

[tardy falcon]

Wait that says up

Nvm

[burnt summit]

Yes because they will definitely write out an entire statement saying that ttk will be the same when at 3*

They've said this

[shrewd urchin]

thats cool but theyre wrong, on average with lmb items the ttk was faster.

which was the predominant meta during that time

[tardy falcon]

You dont to market a game on your ttk going up

[shrewd urchin]

i also know alot of people that would disagree with that

[tardy falcon]

And rhen say in italics actually its the same if every item is at 3 stars

Thats not how it works

[shrewd urchin]

i literally did the math on it back then i think it was on the bishop channel with bish specifically

leading up to the patch the see what oneshots post items since stuff got disconnected from abilities

this also applied to shiv, which i think was a bug?

ttk did not feel better for me no

the slowest the ttk has been so far is literally now

because tank items are viable

since they nerfed everything else.

To reasonably lower ttk what theyd have to do is to limit dmg options to 2 slots instead of having the ability to opt into more, the problem with having 4 damage items + perks is that you can get past any disadvantage if you just get the ability to statcheck someone in return

with how usually their testing goes and the builds ive been getting from people for the hunters i play is that i feel like they just usually go for shit that sounds fun and strong in their minds

instead of just going for the obvious stuff

what if i just only build dmg

what if i go for a tank build and have some form of %hp sustain that i get on every dash

all of these things were something i could point out the moment we had the items on opgg

[burnt summit]

Well good that there's playtests now, which is also why I said the devs are in touch with high elo 👍

[tardy falcon]

They playtested this meta?

[shrewd urchin]

you act like there wasnt any before lmao

[tardy falcon]

And shipped it?

[burnt summit]

the ones they had before for example for 1.0 was insanely exclusive to a limited amount of people

and was more to showcase the patch before shipping it

instead of gathering feedback

[shrewd urchin]

Nono youre not reading what i said

you act like we didnt have these exact same playtests before

do you remember what happened with these?

[burnt summit]

you mean in Alpha i assume ?

[shrewd urchin]

no after

we still had playtests

Bishop rmb 4 big circle was tested there

for example

with people warning them about it being way too potent as a poke tool

[burnt summit]

I'm not sure what playtests you refer to but as I've said the previous patch was tested and the devs did infact listen this time so 🤷‍♂️

[shrewd urchin]

and they were ignored.

[shrewd urchin]

well good they listened, its an absolute shitshow lmao

[burnt summit]

"absolute shitshow"

god why do I even bother

[tardy falcon]

This is the most boring meta we have had in 1.0 yet

[burnt summit]

Fenrir you're an ADHD CDR enjoyer

there's no real conversation to have with you I'm afraid

[shrewd urchin]

id consider removing all dmg from the game bad yea.

[burnt summit]

yes because they definitely just "remove all damage"

yup

that's EXACTLY what they did

[tardy falcon]

Adhd cdr meta way better than this tank meta

[obtuse linden]

Tbh it's still 5x better than wu meta. But it still does suck

[shrewd urchin]

Yes throughout the entire duration of 1.0 all dmg items were nerfed over time to the point people just ran base damage builds with cdr spam

thats how those became viable to begin with, people just switch down to the next best option

now the next best option is going tank

and abusing infusor

[burnt summit]

you know what I find hilarious

[tardy falcon]

Wukong was at least entertaining and frustrating

This meta is just boring

[burnt summit]

that I'm looking at patches currently, and I barely see any of the "nerfs"

[shrewd urchin]

i actually had more fun tbh

[tardy falcon]

Every fight feels like both teams are 2 old people having sex bro

Its just so slow

And painful

And boring

[obtuse linden]

I'm having a lot more fun now personally. I was the closest to quiting I ever was until wu got nerfed.

[tardy falcon]

I remember when this game was fast paced and flashy

When everything was impactful and fun

Where did that game go

[shrewd urchin]

literally the current patchnote

[obtuse linden]

A lot of people did ask for increased ttk. You can blame them

[burnt summit]

I thought we were talking about items ? Not overperforming hunters ?

[shrewd urchin]

dmg nerfs

[burnt summit]

how could you not nerf a hunter that's clearly overperforming ?

[shrewd urchin]

i just used items as an example but just gimme a quick sec

same patch.

You didnt even have to scroll down.

[burnt summit]

There's been 2 fucking patches where they changed items

and you're acting like we've gone 10 patches and they nerfed items perma

[tardy falcon]

Is she overperforming bc shes broken or bc everyone else sucks

[burnt summit]

this is what I mean by you just fucking overexaggerate literally everything

for no reason

like you're so dramatic for no reason

[burnt summit]

??????????

[tardy falcon]

Was it necessary to nerf her and then nerf all the cdr

And then also nerf dmg

[burnt summit]

yes ?

[tardy falcon]

So nobody gets to have fun but tanks

[shrewd urchin]

ive said that they nerfed dmg across the board enough for tank playstyles to be this op despite them barely changing it, i never said that they did that by nerfing it 10 times.

[burnt summit]

CDR was busted across the board, so it got nerfed. Tetra was doing way too much damage to shields and overall her damage was high when just sitting there and poking with walls, so she got nerfed.

[burnt summit]

ok but like holy shit, give them 1 patch to change tank items too

[tardy falcon]

Well idk what to tell u enjoy tank meta with 1k ppl

[burnt summit]

clearly they're overall in the process of changing items overall

[shrewd urchin]

which isnt even my point you just love shifting the goalpost, I literally said that i dont think this meta will last, but not because they make options against these tanks viable again, but by nerfing tanks and making them shit, making something new viable instead.

[tardy falcon]

Personally I like supervive when I can actually do dmg and use my abilities

[burnt summit]

from their disgusting release where all items were so obviously not in a good state

[shrewd urchin]

Oh its almost like i literally said this already

and said that its bad.

[burnt summit]

I can almost guarantee you as soon as they've actually gone and taken a second look at all the items, balance will be a lot better

especially with patches being playtested

[burnt summit]

You can use your abilities, just not have 0 CD

[tardy falcon]

Yeh man just one more pass at the items copium

One more item rework they will get it right copium

[burnt summit]

the fact that you seriously think CDR wasn't a problem Fenrir says a shit ton about you

[tardy falcon]

I can agree that cdr was far and away the best stat to invest in that patch

[burnt summit]

item reworks being directly effected by the opinions of people with hundreds if not thousands of hours in the game

[shrewd urchin]

not really because theres overperformers in the lmb section, no antitank itemization or no viable itemization for tanks, finding a sweetspot here will just be impossible with how variable the game sets u up and also no burstcaster items at all

[burnt summit]

in that patch ?

It's been like this for more than a year

[tardy falcon]

Where i disagree with TC is how they nerfed it

[burnt summit]

just now we FINALLY don't have to build this disgusting dogshit CDR perma

[tardy falcon]

Because thats what led to us being in a boring tank meta

[burnt summit]

give me a break you've been in a tank meta for a week

[shrewd urchin]

thats great but we had this before and it didnt work because people werent given a reasonable enough amount of time to actually play through whatever patch ure dropping which this patch seems heavily evident on.
Playstyles never get adventured enough in a vacuum and especially not on limited time.

[tardy falcon]

And its been the worst week of supervive 1.0

[burnt summit]

This patch only got to be tested by NA ONCE and even with that I believe they did some great work and definitely helped

[tardy falcon]

And this patch will remain the worst patch of 1.0

[burnt summit]

I disagree

first 2 weeks was miserable

[tardy falcon]

And if they dont make a huge pass at the item system so we can get out of this dogshit meta we will go down to 1k players

[burnt summit]

if you don't think that's worse

then you're just simply wrong

[shrewd urchin]

exactly what i said and shows exactly why this still creates the same issue we had without that testing you claim to be that potent

this is exactly how it went back then too

despite the testing being open previously

[tardy falcon]

I would rather play first 2 weeks for a year straight than this boring retirement home gameplay

[shrewd urchin]

Playstyles dont get adventured enough in a time limited vacuum.

[tardy falcon]

This isn't the supervive I signed up for and shilled nonstop

[burnt summit]

As I've said in the 1 year I've been here this is the most open I've seen them be to changes and have this much communication with higher elo/comp community

[burnt summit]

I can't really speak on this so I won't

I can just tell you you're wrong

[shrewd urchin]

"i dont know what youre talking about but ure wrong"

lmao

[burnt summit]

because of a specific other reason not directly your argument

[burnt summit]

no like I can't speak because of NDA

[tardy falcon]

Just checked and we already are man....

[burnt summit]

well "NDA"

[burnt summit]

yea at 6 AM on a wednesday we are

of course

[tardy falcon]

Yo r u like stupid

[shrewd urchin]

you cant speak on how things were conducted in the past because of an NDA? how come i can xD

[tardy falcon]

I look at 24 hour peak

[burnt summit]

I'm not disagreeing that the game is loosing players

[burnt summit]

no like I want to share something that's going on recently but I can't because of NDA

[shrewd urchin]

hes just trying his hardest to defend lmao, bro became the yes man he criticized previously,

[burnt summit]

in order to disprove your point I'd have to break the NDA

so like yea

[shrewd urchin]

thats great but unless the points i made change which i heavily doubt, because they havent for a year now, itll create the same result

just as this patch did

[burnt summit]

I'm really curious as to why you've not been invited

although not surprised considering your conduct on the literal main server

[shrewd urchin]

i literally barely get to play brother im working alot, even if i was or wasnt invited i wouldve had to turn it down

[burnt summit]

Even then I think you'd have great input 🤷‍♂️

[shrewd urchin]

Openly criticizing stuff? Being positive about the game 100% of the time created the mess we have right now

[tardy falcon]

^^

[shrewd urchin]

If armory was open to public criticizm we wouldnt even be in this mess rn

[burnt summit]

I'm not being 100% positive, but you seem to be 100% negative

[tardy falcon]

Hes just being honest doe

The game is in a bad state

[burnt summit]

It's like you believe you have to be negative in order to balance some arbitrary scale with the positive side

[shrewd urchin]

literally am not, i started the entire discussion with the items being a great foundation and having more slots being a good thing but thinking theyre misused. THe reason why i have been mainly negative on ur input is because every literal point ure trying to make is wrong

Make a point that isnt defunct and ill agree with u its not that hard lol

[shrewd urchin]

thats ur own opinion i dont feel that way

[burnt summit]

I've disproven your point on every hunter being able to oneshot have I not ?

I'd argue that wasn't a "defunct" point

[shrewd urchin]

you never have disproven me

xD

i said most hunters can kill in one rotation when burstcasters cant

[burnt summit]

I mean I literally started naming off hunters that can basically under no circumstance actually oneshot

[shrewd urchin]

YOu said no

[tardy falcon]

Neryyl didnt say they one-shot

That was the other guy

[shrewd urchin]

i said i dont care enough to go into practise tool

that was it

[burnt summit]

what do you consider a burstcaster specifically

[shrewd urchin]

i never agreed with u lmao

[shrewd urchin]

A caster that deals dmg through burst

a caster uses abilitys to dmg

[burnt summit]

So like crysta for example ?

[shrewd urchin]

and burst implys that dmg gets applied in rotations

Or joule yes.

[burnt summit]

So you're going to tell me Crysta can't kill someone in one rotation of her abilties, but someone like saros can ?

someone like Myth can ?

someone like Carbine can ?

someone like Brall can ?

Oath can ?

[fierce locust]

Guys can you two please stop arguing and start queueing please

[burnt summit]

Felix can ?

[fierce locust]

I'm on 20 minutes for arena!!

[burnt summit]

Literally at least half of the cast can't "oneshot" or kill someone through one rotation either faster than crysta or at all.

[tardy falcon]

He cant because his job is now to stand in front of his allies and be useless until hes killed

[burnt summit]

Felix could basically never kill someone in a rotation eitherway

[tardy falcon]

True...

[burnt summit]

considering you'd count a rotation using all of your skills once.

[tardy falcon]

But he used to at least be able to cc

Or dash

[obtuse linden]

Sorry if I miss some, but isn't burst literally just crysta, ghost, jin, and tetra rn?
And the only hunter that really is true for is probably crysta

[tardy falcon]

Joule?

[shrewd urchin]

bishop apllies dmg in bursts too, same as kp for example, mainly abilities, ghost is very obviously dps

[burnt summit]

You didn't answer my questions Nerryl

[shrewd urchin]

but kp and bishop can also burst through lmbs

[obtuse linden]

Bruh how I'd forget about joule 😭

[shrewd urchin]

yes because i honestly cba telling u the same thing over and over again, scroll up and read my answer on the same question

cant tell if ure ragebaiting anymore 💀

[burnt summit]

Well no you literally told me you don't want to go in practice tool.

[shrewd urchin]

Scroll up further 💀

[burnt summit]

I'm just simply asking you to explain to me your logic behind your statement and you're failing to do so.

You can't make a statement like "all hunters can oneshot (through on rotation) but burstcasters can't" when it's just simply not true

[obtuse linden]

Kp to me just hasn't felt like burst tbh. But ig it ain't wrong, he's just been turned into a true tank with lot lower dmg. Bishop can still kill one rotation pretty sure.

[burnt summit]

the literal core of this statement isn't true since crysta herself can literally "oneshot" through one rotation.

[shrewd urchin]

hes not going to oneshot u on current playstyles obviously, but hes burst in nature, hook slam ult

his ability to dps is really dammn bad

although one light at the end of the tunnel is that at least his burst applys through lmbs mostly

which is easier to itemize compared to pure ability

[burnt summit]

his burst applies through LMBs ?

[obtuse linden]

I'd say bis burst is through ult not lmbs tbh

[burnt summit]

Brother you cannot be fr

[obtuse linden]

Bishop and ghost are the lmb bursters, thoae the only ones I'd say

[shrewd urchin]

Bishop is mainly ability too on her burst

lmb is alot heavier on the dps side with bishop specifically

but since she can opt into either obviusly going for a lmb build is better since options are just alot better

Although i currently build bishop mainly on tank and util

no added dmg

just too broken

Like she literally has one of the highest scaling abilities in the game with her RMB that gets amplified by 50% on punch and id still go full tank over itemizing for it

[shrewd urchin]

doesnt ult scale off of lmb dmg too?

isnt it hook - slam - lmb - ult

unless ult doesnt scale with lmb dmg at all, its alot more achievable to get higher dmg through lmb items than ability items which is my point

[burnt summit]

ult does not scale with lmb damage

[shrewd urchin]

yeah am wrong about that then probs, thats why i made that point

[burnt summit]

yes but his main burst rotation is still more based off of his abilites rather than LMBs

[shrewd urchin]

yea as i said i thought ult is lmb too

to come back to the original point: Generally burstcasters suffer from having fewer options which caused the entire cdr problem to begin with

If you rely on abilitys to deal dmg you either have

• enough base damage
• enough dmg through itemization
• enough ability casts
  to work

[burnt summit]

so your point is that burstcasters don't have burst items that they can go to actually burst ?

[shrewd urchin]

The problem with the first option is that you basically can just go for full util itembuilds/tank builds instead

the third option is obviously something that u can design a kit for (karthus q) but when everyone is able to do it through items, kits that arent intended to can do it too

and we get what crysta was

and we still ended up nerfing the only item viable on casters because others could just build it for the proc solely

[burnt summit]

well in my opinion it's not the problem that crysta doesn't have enough damage, the problem is that tank options are just simply too good

[shrewd urchin]

which is why i called out the testing to be uneffective because the entire system is flawed

this is just 1 example btw

i can replicate this on tanks having a railroad to vive

i can replicate this on bruisers like felix and brall having to rely on too many items to the point they cant build enough because there simply isnt a middle ground for mobility and vamp for them to work well for example too

The only variety we really have in items atm is literally for lmb spamming

and that got nerfed enough by individual nerfs to the point the only railroad thats left atm (vive tanks) is meta rn

you nerf tanks, lmb spam likely good again

[burnt summit]

lmb spam as in ?

[shrewd urchin]

im not super aware of current meta so i cant really predict whats next honestly, but thats mainly because i hope that theyll end up buffing stuff this time around instead of nerfing tanks.

i like seeing tanks, i just dont like being able to deal with it

[burnt summit]

would you not agree that them buffing damage items would be even more of a shitshow ?

[shrewd urchin]

not dmg items, options vs tanks

[burnt summit]

so you want them to add specific items to deal with tanks ?

[shrewd urchin]

buff burning palm, buff healing over time for example

eva should literally be able to shit on vive abusers honestly

[obtuse linden]

I don't see how those are "anti tank" ngl

[burnt summit]

buffing burning palm and buffing healing over time at the same time isn't really anti tank

it's just gonna give tanks the garen passive

or warmogs

[shrewd urchin]

nothing really is, those are the only tools in itemization we really have that work vs tanks but not strongly against the broader spectrum

[shrewd urchin]

tanks wont build these items

they have to build their current core there ist a better option

[burnt summit]

but you said buff healing over time

if you mean in general then it's an overall buff for tanks ?

[shrewd urchin]

Yes, within itemization, as the entire topic is about it.

i didnt say buff base kit regen lol

that wouldnt change anything to begin with

[burnt summit]

ok, so they'll just continue building vive infusor as it gives passive regen on 3* after dashing

[shrewd urchin]

did i say they should buff infusor

[burnt summit]

no you said healing over time, what other healing over time item is there

[obtuse linden]

Only healing over time item is vive infuser, so I'm confused

[burnt summit]

unless you mean omnivamp ? But that wouldn't make sense or healing items from supports ?

[shrewd urchin]

vamp does too for example

[burnt summit]

You put vamp in same category as healing over time ?

[shrewd urchin]

yes, those were just 2 things i know are in the game i just aired after thinking about it shortly

[shrewd urchin]

yes

[burnt summit]

but you're not really healing over time, you're just healing on-hit

[shrewd urchin]

call it that if it makes it easier

[burnt summit]

I mean buffing omnivamp is what they've already done

[shrewd urchin]

Honestly tho, the game needs more items to deal with stuff like that to have viable picks into it generally.

going through items rn and thinking about what could be done to have viable tanks without lowering ttk

and its not really as clear of a path as it should be tbf

tbf before the slam changes the game didnt need it either

[burnt summit]

what do the slam changes have to do with it ? 😭

[obtuse linden]

There is basically no vamp in the game rn. But even if there was i feel like no one would want to go it other thwn like 3 characters mainly due to anti heal

[shrewd urchin]

because u dont die to a oneshot mechanic despite building tank anymore no?

[shrewd urchin]

i mean in long fights vs a tanky target if you can outheal the tanks dmg, youre still getting its worth

thats what it should be good for to begin with

bruising

vamp being a mechanic used vs burst picks or to enable to draintank playstyle shouldnt exist

well tbf depends on kit

Like vladimir exists in league and kinda works

or stuff like voli, theyre conditional enough to be beaten

but brall vamp lmb spam meta on beta drop

that shit was cancer

[shrewd urchin]

where

[burnt summit]

imo gorger talon was buff

[shrewd urchin]

Jawblade only really works with the anti on firefox no?

and yeah shield is definetly a buff

[burnt summit]

I mean it gives base 10% vamp

and jawblade works afaik on ANY lmb

[shrewd urchin]

yeah but you still give up a slot

you cant go double vamp on any character afaik

[shrewd urchin]

in a prolonged fight?

[burnt summit]

Yes but I said they did get a buff

which they did

[burnt summit]

well it's an active

[shrewd urchin]

rampager is just better

[burnt summit]

you get 30% omnivamp on anyone anti'd when active

and 10% omnivamp otherwise

actually wait no thats not true

[shrewd urchin]

And the problem with how rampager is designed is that if oyu buff it too much characters like ghost get too much from it

[burnt summit]

30% omni on anyone that's antihealed in general

and you can apply anti heal yourself when active

[shrewd urchin]

yeah thats why i said only felix

theres no real bruiser version for a vamp item if you get what i mean

[burnt summit]

well you can still activate it and apply anti healing yourself to get a burst of omnivamp

[shrewd urchin]

yeah but i dont think that duration is enough to take down a kp let alone justify it over rampager

which is already weak too imo#

its more of a oh fuck i need health right now button rather than i want to outheal ur tank ass dmg item

because at least in my design philosophy if u can call it that, tanks basically shouldnt really be able to win vs a bruisers statcheck and would have to be reliant on teammates when a brall approaches them for example

but there isnt really a way to oppose that kinda itemization without making other characters broken

an item giving vamp and dash haste or vamp and hp would literally be better than both of these for brall and felix

without a ghost for example being able to abuse it too

one idea i also had was increasing the vamp amount not by hits but with how close you are to ur target maybe

Like if you have an enemy close to you you get more

but like the options rn are more steered towards dps than actual bruisers

which is why i said earlier noone but lmb spammers have options really

thats what i meant with it

it should feel good to itemize

and if there is a meta, there should be itemizable options to feel like you have a good natural response rather than trying to force one through the broken option the system gives u