The female character are not just oversexualised, they are straight up poorly designed

[flat grove]

You did agree to the rules when you joined the discord

[vocal crest]

That's a really novel approach. We could call the evidence "societal norms" or something. Might be catchy.

[indigo verge]

ok so i guess you're the authority on what i did when i joined this server too then?

[flat grove]

Yes but trying to apply local norms to the entire population just doesnt allow for any discussion to happen. If you argued the same topic with a guy in saudi arabia and a guy in california and both just tried to push their own societal norms on eachother theyd both never agree on it either.

Thats the entire point

[vocal crest]

But you did just that, no?

When you deleted a suggestive drawing of man because you thought it was crossing the line of a societal norm

[flat grove]

No. I literally argued the entire time that it doesnt make sense to do that by the example of it being something worn everywhere in the west while still being a poor but understandable choice for nyx as a character

I dont see the reason in sexualization and much rather in them trying to hard to be cohesive with their artstyle

[flat grove]

Nudity simply isnt allowed here. Thats not a societal norm thing, if theres a visible dick on ur art it will get deleted

[indigo verge]

there wasn't btw

[flat grove]

We had other stuff that was bordering it (the infamous shrikekini) that we usually argue first. It usually only comes down to how revealing it is and we try to be understanding of specific designchoices even if things could be considered as sexual

[vocal crest]

Is it not a societal norm that decides what and where to draw the line on nudity?

[flat grove]

Its not that hard to get. If things are not or barely covered, itll get deleted

If it was intentional, it receives punishment

[vocal crest]

Sounds an awful lot like you are acting like a moral authority on the matter...

[flat grove]

Because of the intent thing?

If you post nsfw art that has nudity in it, since the rules forbid nudity explicitly, thatll be seen as intentional and if you post borderline nude art with visible areolas or nipples for example, youll usually be warned first and itll be seen as intentional next time.
Verifying intent doesnt require a moral authority it just requires rules and enforcing them.

[vocal crest]

So you don't think there is a perceived societal intent behind lingerie?

[flat grove]

Yes and no. It comes down to the entire outfit. Single pieces of clothing shouldnt be seen as having some sort of intent

Skirts are seen as something sexual literally depending on where everyone draws his own line with its length for example but even the shortest skirt stops being seen as such if somethint is worn beneath

A single piece of clothing isnt immediately a choice

You pick an entire outfit to express who you are

Even if thats just taking what was left in ur drawer

[sullen ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/dormindo-deitado-com-sono-gif-17999835699219215846

[storm python]

guy unofficial mod sign wave has spoken pls respect the unofficial authority

#🍞│general message

apologies stand in mod signwave

[flat grove]

Idk why you thought bringing this up completely unrelated was even remotely ok

[broken wharf]

It was related

They are a stand-in mod and were one during a time of conflict

Their authority has only brought peace on the W Supervive Lands

[indigo verge]

unfortunately my authority as stand-in mod is still disrespected regularly to this day

[heavy magnet]

I see Nerryl was running their mouth again.

[storm belfry]

I love reading this thread it's always entertaining

[crude spire]

Feel all these arguments could be solved in a few minutes by just talking back and fourth in a vc

[storm python]

i try

[storm python]

care the 30 min time out

[rotund crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-laughing-meme-gif-8665530932329511839

[vocal crest]

At least you get an inside look to those the education system has failed. Many sociologists would kill for this window into our generation.

[tiny yew]

IRL women often wear revealing clothing because they think it looks good not because they're expecting a bunch of men to stare at them. That behavior is obviously not welcome, and for good reason.

Why can't we entertain the idea that Supervive's female character designs are meant to represent the above fact IE women who want to look good, instead of assuming they're designed by men for men to stare at? That maybe if these characters were real that they would choose revealing clothes for themselves?

If you think the only possible reason for revealing clothes on characters besides Eva is eye-candy you're being very foolish.

[heavy magnet]

Ok, smartass: What do you think the people that designed characters like Eva did it for?

Because it sure as hell wasn’t an assbackwards way to “empower” women.

[tiny yew]

I said 'besides Eva' because she's the only character for whom sexuality is an inherent part of the character's theme. She obviously needs to have revealing clothes or she doesn't live up to the theme of 'succubus'.

It's not about empowerment. You're conflating my argument with someone else's (and being a bit aggressive). There doesn't have to be an ulterior motive to Mercury's boob window for the reason there doesn't have to be an ulterior motive when a real woman wears a keyhole top.

They think it looks good, so they dress themselves accordingly. Don't overthink it.

Not everything is a statement. Some things just exist.

[heavy magnet]

Yeah, and the SUPERVIVE designers exist as people that should be on a watchlist.

It’s one thing to like a certain quality, but it’s another thing to feed into a system that objectifies women.

[tiny yew]

If Mercury was a real woman, don't you suppose she could choose to wear what she wears in Supervive if she thought it looked good?

[heavy magnet]

Well, she isn’t, and the designers decided to give her that awful outfit.

All because they want that sweet sex appeal revenue.

[tiny yew]

Do you understand the point of the hypothetical?

It doesn't matter that she isn't real

[inland apex]

Bart, it's a pointless discussion. No one is actually here to have a debate.

[heavy magnet]

The point of your hypothetical is to distract people reading it.

And it matters a lot that she isn’t real, because the design choices are what the designers thought up.

[tiny yew]

No it isn't. The point of the hypothetical is raise the question "why is it okay when IRL women dress in a revealing way, but not when a character does?" (It doesn't matter that Mercury isn't real for the sake of the hypothetical)

You are smuggling in the ideological presupposition that all women in video games are constructed to placate the immoral desires of men, Anita Sarkeesian-style.

"I see what I want to see" as an attitude is deluded enough on its own (delusion in the basic sense of believing in things that are not real, not the mental illness sense). It's made worse when you think you're working to solve a serious social issue. You can never 'tell it like it is' because your beliefs leave 'what it is' as a matter of belief, instead of fact. It was always analysis, never observation.

[storm belfry]

Good looking women are offensive. They have to look like men or androgynous so no one gets their feewing hurt becuase their favorite character doesnt look like them

[flat grove]

alotta conventions for cosplay here in germany (a country id consider very open about body culture in general) ban underboob because they deem it too much and youd definetly also get in trouble for wearing it publicly.

I think mercury doesnt even really represent the artstyle the game has either, its trying to with the hat and weapon but the top and the way it adds with her outfit just doesnt make sense

like if you just google neon punk or any other punk artstyle thats close enough to this games artstyle ull literally get a ton of results of rather revealing clothing first since the essence of punk is being rebellious, i get that they did try that with nyx and imo it works alot better with her than it does with mercury

[trim ingot]

Mercury should either be a baker or a witch

Stick with one

[heavy magnet]

You’re gonna come in here and just call people mentally ill, and then say stuff like this?

[raven frost]

Why are you the way that you are

[broken wharf]

Did anyone say men

[flat grove]

lmfao

[indigo verge]

well, that's mainly because video games are a product, and character designs in that product function as a marketing tool. once you see the game in this context, it is pretty clear what the intention is. also, you're humanizing a fictional character pretending that they made the decision to wear these clothes on their own because they just feel comfortable in these clothes, but they didn't. the designer makes the choices

and in the designer's mind at the end of the day a character's role in the commercial success of the product outweighs the 'feelings' that character might have

if a character 'just wears that because they feel comfortable in it' then even that is because the designer decided that is the case. so you have to look at this from the designer's context either way

[heavy magnet]

Oh, but what about pickme’s Bart’s friends with?

I’m sure they’ve got plenty of female friends with how they use “Anita Sarkeesian” as an adjective.

[indigo verge]

i also think it's funny to bring up anita sarkeesian considering she was honestly just correct lol

[heavy magnet]

Yeah, the only reason she’s hated is because of a bunch of greasy incels who created a woman as their mascot to barely mask their sexism.

[indigo verge]

yea i mean if you haven't actually read up on what her original points were you'd think she wanted to genocide all men or something with the way she's portrayed and the backlash she perceived

and then you look into it and she just basically said 'women tend to not be represented well in videogames'

[flat grove]

it was already outdated when the article was first dropped. If ur starting statement is about Mario and Zelda, whilest i agree that it was very plump, it was also in the earliest days of games when these things were conceptualized. I think the most modern example they made was with dishonered and the studio then added more female roles in their storys and majorly improved upon how women were depicted within their games off of that like immediately.

Theres alot more to criticize about games nowadays (look at the entire gacha industry for example) and even back then, than almost everything in that article.

[tiny yew]

This is true, but I think you're reading into what I said a little too much. I left it open deliberately because 'wanting to portray women who dress in a revealing way of their own accord' is an entirely valid artistic choice that cannot coexist with the idea that it's always just objectification and therefore morally wrong. That's the whole idea I'm trying to get across. Women DO choose IRL to dress in revealing clothes of their own accord, so you SHOULD be able to depict that.

[indigo verge]

i mean, sure, you can depict that. it's just that when you choose to basically ONLY depict that, a pattern emerges.

[raven frost]

Thats not a bad thing tho

As long as its done right

And the fact that they choose to wear revealing clothing is a part of the character

[indigo verge]

especially when it isn't a necessary or logical choice for all your characters yea

[heavy magnet]

All the reveals is the tendencies of the person that created them.

You don’t need to give a character revealing clothing or make them a supermodel for people to find them attractive.

[raven frost]

I dont really understand whats wrong with you on a personal level

Bc thats not what the conversation is about at all

[flat grove]

It doesnt have to be logical, wether it makes sense or not is purely subjective to begin with.

[tiny yew]

^ Correct

[indigo verge]

that's just... not how character design works

[flat grove]

Art isnt subjective anymore ig lol

[indigo verge]

supervive wasn't made as an artistic expression

it was made as a commercial product

[flat grove]

why cant both be true

[indigo verge]

you're conveniently ignoring that context

[raven frost]

Why cant it be both yeah

Are we gonna get into an argument of that art cant be commercial

[indigo verge]

well it can be, but even if both are true, you still end up with character design that has to adhere to commercial principles

[flat grove]

no im just not extreme about it. I aspire the truth, not whatever madeup criteria i try to force into everything

[indigo verge]

there are rules to character design

[flat grove]

it doesnt have to, when both is true, its a give and take.

[tiny yew]

False. It's not a stop sign purely conveying information. It's up to interpretation. That's kind of the whole reason I'm arguing against there being one definitive viable interpretation.

[flat grove]

theres no rules to art.

[indigo verge]

well they're not enforced and you can break them

but there are for sure rules

[tiny yew]

There are only conventions that exist so artists can work within genres

[flat grove]

You can make whatever u want to make, even if you follow a set of rules, it doesnt guarantee success.

Thats the point

creative processes are creative

[raven frost]

If they are not enforced and you can break them then are they still rules?

[flat grove]

no. lol.

[tiny yew]

Apparantly they are enforced when breaking them means making a character with underboob lol

[indigo verge]

you're pretending like they just let supervive designers go wild

like they just make their own fun little OC and then call it a day

these designs are made in the context of commercial viability

because they have to be

that's how the video game industry works when you're working at a studio that has to stay afloat

[raven frost]

Made in the context of ≠ have to adhere to

[indigo verge]

and commercial viability has rules

[indigo verge]

#1407460293281583124 message

[tiny yew]

The problems with Sarkeesian stem mostly from character design. To whatever extent she railed against the way women were written in video games, there are definitely valid complaints I'd say

[flat grove]

i guess theyll just have to fit within the artstyle they chose and pitch ideas and probably have a bunch of concepts first. Then they try to take the design and try to conform to non creative rules but rules within visibility for example that are much more gameplay oriented than creative, which also case situations in which problems that come from this again get tackled creatively

[raven frost]

#1407460293281583124 message

[flat grove]

thats how most games deal with this.

[indigo verge]

and the next question they ask themselves is 'how marketable is this character'

especially in a hero-based game

[indigo verge]

yes. they are rules for success

[flat grove]

yeah but i still think she kinda shot too far into the past, the fact that dishonered was like the only game of that time that they could even attack, while it was already earning alot of criticism before she came up with it, is why i took issue with it

[indigo verge]

you guys just seem to have a very narrow definition of the word rules and are snagging on that for some reason

[raven frost]

Well I think the problem here is that thats not what that word means

You mean guidelines

[indigo verge]

pretty sure she mentions like plenty games from right before the piece came out no?

[flat grove]

why does everyone else always have to be wrong, why cant u just accept that sometimes there is no actual truth to something

As we claim

theres no rules to art.

[raven frost]

Theres guidelines tho

And like

General good practice

[flat grove]

Yes for sure, but that doesnt mean that they will follow the same guidelines for every single design

[raven frost]

I think that fits more with what you mean to say

[flat grove]

Guidelines, yes. Rules? For sure not

[indigo verge]

because this entire thing is just a semantics argument

[heavy magnet]

Well, if there are no rules, then why can’t we get even something different than Nyx?

[indigo verge]

replace my usage of rules with the word guideline then if that's what it takes for you to actually engage with the substance of the argument

[raven frost]

I will notnstand for tetra erasure

[flat grove]

dishonored was the only one in the article that was somewhat successfull and a serious game that actually was agregiously bad in most of the things she applies, if youre not familiar with the game, most women in that game if not all are depicted as sexworkers or other overly "worthless" positions within the society depicted in the game. I know its a rough word to use but its 100% true

[tiny yew]

Devs have their ideas for what they think a good character design looks like. The anti-revealing clothes camp is just too uncharitable.

[flat grove]

yes. Obviously wording is important

[raven frost]

The problem is the argument has no substance if you replace rules with guidelines though. Because your whole point was that there are rules to commercial success that must be followed

[indigo verge]

that's just

a valid argument

there are rules to commercial success

that's a fact

or guidelines, whatever floats your boat

[flat grove]

Nope, thats not true either, if there was a set of rules to follow for success, there wouldnt be any failures.
If these rules would be something you have to follow for success, there wouldnt be outliers.

[indigo verge]

holy shit replace it with guidelines thenm

[flat grove]

I think theres things that are proven to work more often and things that are proven to work less often

what makes a good design is a bit of both

something creative and good is just super hard to make

[indigo verge]

you have a ridiculously narrow definition of rules and for some reason that is your entire argument

[raven frost]

Well the issue here is that the existence of those guidelines dont mean they have to be followed in terms of character design to achieve commercial success

[indigo verge]

okay but supervive is literally following them

so i don't understand why you're making this argument

[flat grove]

Ok what do they follow

[indigo verge]

sex sells is a pretty established rule of success in character-focused games

or any online game in general

[flat grove]

Void is particularily sexy

elluna too ig

[indigo verge]

you're being intentionally obtuse

[flat grove]

and dont get me started on oath

or wukong

hrhrhrh

[indigo verge]

funny you only mention male characters

[broken wharf]

Id clank oath....

[indigo verge]

and elluna but we've been saying she's the exception from the start

[flat grove]

theres some designs where i agree with this youre not 100% wrong im not being obtuse, im pointing out that the guidelines ure trying to apply to the game broadly arent applied to most of the cast.

[tiny yew]

I take issue with people trying to misrepresent analysis as fact, which is what was going on here when people try to argue that all revealing clothes on women count as objectification and therefore morally wrong. Morals =/= facts. I'd be less rigid if anyone acknowledged that 'objectification' is not a matter of fact, but belief at the bare minimum.

[raven frost]

I can agree that sex sells is a dominat force in gaming and that many supervive characters are sexy to be bought but I dont think sex sells is representative of supervive chatacter design as a whole

[indigo verge]

you're basically just arguing with a made up person again. when i say 'sex sells', you and i both know i'm talking about sexualising female characters specifically. but you make up the fictional idea that i mean both male and female characters, and then argue with that made up point

then i have to spend the entire argument going 'no thats obviously not what i was saying'

you're just strawmanning me again

it's comical how much you do this

[inland apex]

[indigo verge]

trying to talk to you just means clarifying your point over and over again in increasingly verbose language because all you do is intentionally misinterpret my words

[raven frost]

Why are you talking about female characters specifically

[inland apex]

I need a oath skin where hes in a banana hammock

[flat grove]

what bothers me the most with this is that within the artstyle of the game most of the clothing choice actually makes alot of sense. Punk has always been rebellious to begin with and so are mesh/revealing clothes, i think theres enough other motivation to go for these designs to not fully put all ur money into objectification

[indigo verge]

because the entire fucking conversation has been about female characters since the very start of this thread

[flat grove]

this is what we are all here for tbh

the poolparty skinline would go crazy

[inland apex]

I need the marvel rivals devs to get on that

The loki skin goes CRAZY

[indigo verge]

literally since the start of this thread it's been "the female characters are oversexualised" and then he still somehow wants to pretend that i'm arguing that both the male and female cast is oversexualised

[heavy magnet]

Tetra is a string bean with boulders on her arms.

[indigo verge]

it's like the most obvious example of strawmanning you could possibly present

either that or he has the reading comprehension of an 8 year old

but i'm being charitable and assuming he's doing it on purpose

[raven frost]

Tetra is a unique design

One we didnt have in vive before

[flat grove]

You said that the game as a whole follows that guideline hence why it gets argued as a whole now, i dont even think that guideline applys to the female cast either.

[indigo verge]

well she could've been if they didn't make her another vaguely early 20s looking doll like every other female character

[tiny yew]

Oh for the record I 100% think Mercury's design is weak, underboob included, but for reasons unrelated to sexualisation. When people criticize the fact that her underboob makes no sense logically/given her character theme, they're right. I'm only arguing against the categorical rejection of female characters wearing revealing clothing being morally wrong.

[indigo verge]

there's maybe one or two exceptions but generally the game absolutely follows that guideline

[flat grove]

100% finally someone that doesnt just have the most extreme opinions and can just accept that people wear clothes to express themselves unrelated to how people see them

[flat grove]

imo most of the early cast is aight

[raven frost]

When I say things like revealing clothing can be a cool characters thing im talking about joule and tetra specifically

Mercury is an abomination

[inland apex]

Tetra so pookie coded

[indigo verge]

dead or alive was also not a sexualising franchise because the women in that game were on the beach, so obviously they'd choose to wear bikinis

[flat grove]

i wouldnt even call joule revealing lol, shes just wearing a pretty normal scene outfit, which just fits within the artstyle of the game really well

[raven frost]

Revealing in the greater societal context

[flat grove]

well youre wrong about this since the devs themselves have been joking and open about this already

[raven frost]

Not like in the context of her punk scene or anything

[indigo verge]

also the main argument this thread is based on isn't even really about clothing, moreso about body type

[flat grove]

We know their intentions

with doa you can say what their intentions are because they have spoken about it

you can only guess with sv

[tiny yew]

True but that argument is even worse than the sub-argument about revealing clothing

[indigo verge]

wow it's almost like my argument was in jest to illustrate the flaws in your line of thinking and not actually something i sincerely believe

[raven frost]

I dont want to talk about body types again

[flat grove]

yup esp if you consider that when this was made, nys wasnt even a thing and most of the cast was dps

or healer

which are usually made slender because of hitboxes

[raven frost]

I perfer the clothing one

[flat grove]

theres no flaws

one is confirmed by the devs the other isnt

[indigo verge]

dps or healer.... you mean the only classes in supervive

[inland apex]

Dead or alive is gooner slop

Lmfao

What are you even yapping about anymore

[flat grove]

when the person that made something tells you he made it because he wanted to apply to sexual appeal you can say that thats exactly what it is.
You cant say the same about something where that hasnt happened, you can only guess

[tiny yew]

1. For good faith, you should specify this before making the argument 2) It's wrong because DoA is gooner slop like Asachi just said

[flat grove]

thats a MASSIVE difference

[raven frost]

I only play hayabusa in doa..

The women made me uncomfortable...

[indigo verge]

i thought it'd be pretty obvious since it's literally the complete opposite of everything i've been arguing for so far. also, that doesn't mean anything for the argument

[inland apex]

What even is your point anymore, you're making a pointless argument to cry about something so non issue because supervive has some of the least gooner females

You're upset they have same face syndrome sure

But thats not what you're going for

I know your argument and its utterly pointless

Go cry in the marvel rivals discord where it holds some standard

Because they give every female a fat ass and thighs

[indigo verge]

thank you for your contribution to the conversation

[raven frost]

Well no I think the girls are poorly designed

[tiny yew]

Unironically, there isn't even any problem with that Imma just say it

[inland apex]

As useful as your

[raven frost]

Now we are reaching crazy levels

[inland apex]

Yours*

[indigo verge]

cat comes out the bag

[inland apex]

Absolutely weirdo behavior

[raven frost]

The characters do not even look like who they are supposed to be adapted from

[tiny yew]

Nothing was hidden in the first place what do you mean

It was never about the degree of sexualisation

[raven frost]

Sue storm didnt need a bbl

[indigo verge]

well no but you're just saying the quiet part out loud now

[heavy magnet]

You say that like SUPERVIVE doesn’t have that problem too.

[raven frost]

She was perfect the way she was

[indigo verge]

you just don't care about the systematic sexualisation of women in media

[inland apex]

It doesn't you blind dimwit

[indigo verge]

same problem different symptoms

[inland apex]

It has a problem with same body syndrom moreso than gooner

[raven frost]

By them giving one to her snd making sure to show it off in the lobby it makes me feel like they didnt like her as she was originally

I dont see what bbls add to all of the characters

[tiny yew]

Damn dude you even warned me not to get ragebaited by these people and now you're getting ragebaited lol

[raven frost]

What did squirrel girl gain in her design from alllat botox

Nothing rly

[inland apex]

Eva and mercury are legit the only true contenders for this whole post

[indigo verge]

the female characters aren't allowed to have unique designs that function to tell a story about them because they need to be marketable to gooners. same problem in both situations it's just that in marvel rivals it manifests itself as fat ass and thighs and in supervive it manifests itself as barbie doll with no defining features

[tiny yew]

20 lbs of fat

[raven frost]

That she didnt need

Bc her story was already good

[tiny yew]

Debateable

[raven frost]

Her design was alr good

[inland apex]

They gotta give the chubby chasers SOMETHIGN

[raven frost]

She was a popular character well before rivals

[tiny yew]

lol

[raven frost]

This is probably the only argument where i like kinda get it

I hate it

[trim ingot]

A bigger hitbox and more gooner appeal

[raven frost]

But I get it

[trim ingot]

Ive light heard some diabolical things when squirrel girl gets picked

[raven frost]

I dont see why she needed gooner appeal bruh theres 16 MILLION FHATACTERS THEY CAN ADD FOR THAT

GOONER APPEALLL

[inland apex]

There is like zero lore to supervive besides the small scraps you can scrape up off of youtube videos. The characters themselves are pretty self explantory to what they are designed as unless you'

[raven frost]

WHERE IS DOMINO????

[inland apex]

re fucking blind

Tetra sure

Mecury sure

But the rest?

Pretty easy to tell

I got that celeste was a ballerina from her fucking dash

[heavy magnet]

It’s always about how women have to have sex appeal, huh?

[raven frost]

Ok im not gonna get mad about marvel rivals character design again

Im just going to say

[trim ingot]

Its for the furrys I guess

[raven frost]

That i dont think changing body types around is inherently bad

[inland apex]

Brother, have you seen the men there too? Its not just about women there LMFAO

[raven frost]

Like its not a huge deal that squirrel girl is chubby

[inland apex]

Everyone gets the goon treatment in rivals

[raven frost]

Its that they do it to every girl

Besides peni

And shes like 12

[trim ingot]

Shes 18

Found that out horribly

[raven frost]

I dont care what

They write in that blog

[inland apex]

Its not even ragebait, its just bad opinions

[raven frost]

She is not 18

She was in HIGH SCHOOL

[inland apex]

Yea peni is young

[trim ingot]

Was.

[raven frost]

But like yeah its disheartening to see everyone get a bbl

I like these characters for their rich history

[trim ingot]

Indeed

[tiny yew]

Seriously though there's zero reason to make revealingly-dressed characters for the sex appeal anymore, because people's tastes are so varied now. It's all just noise. It's a relic from a time when people actually got 'excited' looking at revealing female character designs instead of being absolutely numb to them.

[inland apex]

You think most people who play rivals actually know anything about the comics tho?

[raven frost]

I dont see why to make them cooler they needed a bbl

[raven frost]

Id like it to serve as a gateway

[trim ingot]

You'd be surprised

[raven frost]

I want peni mains to read spiderverse

[inland apex]

I wish it would, but if ima be honest most people don't have the attention span for comics anymore

[raven frost]

I want wolverine fans to read uncanny xmen

[inland apex]

The marvel movies were like 9/11 for the comics

Cause the movies BUTCHERED what was in the comics

[raven frost]

It sucks that they think the only way that could ever happen is if everyone gets a fat ass

[inland apex]

I know its a movie and all but damn

[tiny yew]

Sure, but they could read literally anthing with wolverine in it and end up picking a comic that's completely mid. I can't imagine anyone trying to get into comics in 2025 tbh

[inland apex]

That was 100% a design choice on purpose. It worked increcibly well cause they cater to both

[raven frost]

I know its on purpose

Thats why it sucks so hard

Just once I want them to have faith in the character

And not add 17 million pounds to their ass and chest

[inland apex]

Its the unforunate downfall of the male power fantasy that comics had become early on

Especially since its writer dependent too.

[heavy magnet]

Now that I have it in mind, something like Alien Green and Biollante would be great for a female Hunter.

[flat grove]

theres no point, just an extreme forced upon everything. I honestly consider just ignoring it atp, theres no actual argument to be made outside of something that is purely subjective and shouldve just been agreed to be a disagreement ages ago

[heavy magnet]

How can you look at DoA and not see gooner slop?

[flat grove]

it just causes for most of the discussion to just deviate from real stuff to something that is just the same shit over and over again and its been tiring for a long time by now

[heavy magnet]

The main draw of that series is barely clothed women.

[flat grove]

this looks like absolute shit

monster designs have been getting so much better lately esp with fromsofts success

[heavy magnet]

Well, the Godzilla fanbase would disagree with you.

Biollante's considered one of the best designed monsters in the series.

[flat grove]

Im not saying its trash in general, it mightve been great for its time, but man we have made JUMPS since then

like to name a recent example silent hill f has some fucking amazing monster designs

Id rather they take inspiration from that, since many of them are based around female struggle within conservative cultures

that would be cool as fuck in general

[flat grove]

the game had that kinda marketing going for it in the beta already when the entire design debate wasnt even brewing btw

all of the discussion around that game was that it had potential to be a better overwatch

and arguments being thrown around that it is/isnt better than ow

the entire goondebate came with them adding new characters after release

Mainly propagated because of stellar eves releaseframe being around that

so the entire debate flared up alot again

it was much more of an internet drama thing and marketing stunt than goonerbait that resulted in people playing the games.
I agree that most of the time, esp with the internet making shit so accessible, acting like that kinda motivation is what entire designs revolve around exlusively is just a wrong statement to make

its so extreme to make that statement to begin with, i dont get how people can feel like theyre right about something if their opinion from the getgo basically pushes everything into one corner and doesnt allow anything to change about it

Noone is trying to say that it isnt considered, but theres alot inbetween a consideration and an actual attempt of objectification that also then translates to that kinda objectification within the heads of the consumers.

[heavy magnet]

"Sex sells" existed a long time before "goonerbait" existed. Why is the latter a wrong statement with the former?

[flat grove]

Noone disagrees with u on this

thats something you guys keep getting wrong

We just simply disagree that it can serve as the sole motivation, try to see the world in all its facettes instead of going through the world in black and white and youll be right about things alot more often

and alot easier to just agree with.

[heavy magnet]

Any other "motivation" is just an excuse.

[flat grove]

the problem with thinking like that is that you basically just give urself an excuse to argue like this about every single woman within every single game as much as youd want to because the entire debate to begin with is on a subjective level

this way you can never have a productive discussion

Either u aknowledge that the creative process takes in many factors or you think that devs nowadays only make shit to make it sexy, but on the latter youll never be taken seriously unless the devs literally said so

You cant be 100% sure about intent without verifying it

[heavy magnet]

It stops being a productive discussion when bad faith trolls like you butt in with this "but what if they had other reasons?!"

[flat grove]

thats not bad faith, that is common sense.

[heavy magnet]

With how much shit people have been flinging around about this, and all the strawmans, I'm sick of "hearing the other side".

[flat grove]

its alot more bad faith to bring down an entire creative process to 1 motivation

solely because u want to

not because u have any other evidence towards it

not because u even have a single designer confirming that it was his exlusive thought process.

Thats what bad faith is.

You dont even give room for other interpretations

I cant say this enough, you guys are the problem

we had a completely unrelated conversation that fits the scope of this thread and u brought it back to this again

you did not us

how can we disagree and agree with eachother without deviating but every single time you come in this is what the discussion comes down to

Thats what extremism is, thats what unhealthy obsession is

just let it go T.T

[raven frost]

By who lmfao

Mothra Rodan Godzilla Jet Jaguar king ceaser Gamera (my favorite) Ghidora all clear

Not even mentioning destroyah or any of the other godzillas

Or any of the mutos

[flat grove]

Actual fucking godzilla discussion in 2025 what a time to be alive

[raven frost]

Ive never seen anyone say biollante is their favorite

[heavy magnet]

Gamera isn't even a Godzilla monster.

And Destoroyah has the personality of a wet pancake.

[raven frost]

He is a kaiju

[flat grove]

yeah i think gamera was a different IP

They only thing they have in common is being Kaiju

[raven frost]

Also like

Hes my favorite

So hes getting shoehorned into every discussion

I love you gamera

https://tenor.com/view/gamera-cr-gamera-the-battle-pachinko-gamera-shows-up-show-up-showing-up-gif-27679185

Him and Jet Jaguar raised me

[flat grove]

is valid, i dont really have favourites, i aknowledge the impact they had but im too much of a tiktokbrained dumbass to appreciate it

Im someone that liked the kingkong v godzilla movie 💀

[raven frost]

Im not a puritan about it tbh

But you should watch some of the older stuff

Its rly good and campy and fun

[broken wharf]

Wow these are some weird looking abyssals

[raven frost]

Talk about my son like that one more time I dare you

[flat grove]

Lmao

peak ragebait

[flat grove]

i did, im just not the right person for it

Most of the older stuff i like is anime or disney/cartoon stuff that i grew up with

but older movies and classics just dont hit the same for me

and i feel like modern media actually is past its slopphase atp

cinema isnt imo

[raven frost]

Destroyah is one of the only kaijus who is fully aware of the impact his actions are causing and how much death hes dealing

[flat grove]

its in the middle :D

[raven frost]

Might I suggest

Godzilla minus one

[flat grove]

on my watchlist

its the new one right

like 1-2 years old?

[raven frost]

Yeh

[flat grove]

maybe 3

[raven frost]

Great blend of old and new

[flat grove]

yeah ill give it a shot, i wanted to because i got kinda hyped up on kaiju genre with kaiju no. 8

[inland apex]

Do you like half read shit before replying? I literally called DoA goonerslop

[flat grove]

my direct response to doa being mentioned is saying that the devs themselves aknowledged its goonerbait

[inland apex]

Also tf discord, I unfollowed this AND turned off notifications why am I still seeing shit

[flat grove]

same here xD

[inland apex]

I'm trying to goon in peace

Not see anti goon propaganda

[raven frost]

Also if we are talking about characters who should be designed like kaijus

I have a mighty need to see someone take a crack at making a kiryu

[inland apex]

Hold on

I take it back, we're Godzilla posting

I'm following again

[raven frost]

Id also kinda like a take on ultraman

Not the regular one the Netflix one

Ok so not the new Netflix one

The old one

[inland apex]

I unfortunately have never seen ultraman

[raven frost]

Ur missing out

Ultrman rising is on netflix

Good entry point

Its also on YT

With English dubs

[inland apex]

I'll have to honestly watch it

My friends talk about it A LOT

[raven frost]

Rising isnt I mean like the actual series

[rotund crystal]

as a godzilla fan i recommend this movie lol

so fkn asweome

[raven frost]

It stands as one of the 3 pillars very well along with kamen rider and godzilla

[inland apex]

Kamen Rider is another one they talk about

But I personally couldn't get into ot

[raven frost]

A little less accessible (but my favorite)

[inland apex]

I tried to

[raven frost]

I mean which one did you watch

[inland apex]

Oh Lord, it was legit years ago

I probably started with the first one for continuity sake

[raven frost]

Ok see

Thats the first problem

The first couple are radically diff from the rest

Its more horror than action

If you want to try again you should watch shin kamen rider

Its also called masked rider but dont EVER call it that

Nice movie

[flat grove]

something like this would honestly be sick within this game

[raven frost]

Im basically shilling all the shin movies

[inland apex]

Honestly, DM it so I remember

[flat grove]

and also awkwardly enough super fitting lmao

[inland apex]

Send a list if you'd like

[sudden wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/optical-illusion-cubes-are-not-moving-cubes-illusion-gif-14031074803634073709

[flat grove]

lmfao

this is one of the best shitposts ive seen in months

[inland apex]

Woah, they told me Kp Is getting nerfed more

Thank God

[raven frost]

Freind requested

[inland apex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1168633845013291028/1327131777445269546/attachment.gif

[raven frost]

More character designs should take queues from the heisei style tbh

A lot of stuff now is inspired from modern anime and very recent examples but idk

Heisei and showa have the most inspired designs ive ever seen

[flat grove]

Yeah modern stuff got so rare that designs can get away with being basic

if they do something like this i definetly agree

[broken wharf]

This car cannot be stopped

[storm belfry]

Everytime I come back it's like there's more proof

[indigo verge]

what makes it impossible to have an actual discussion is justifying every poor decision with “they probably had their reasons”

you could literally justify anything this way

that’s why it’s such a hollow argument

armory was also a good system i guess cause the devs just felt good about it

they probably had their reasons for adding it so let’s not criticise it too much

you just need to stop seeing things from this narrow perspective and broaden your eyes. the devs had plenty reasons for adding armory outside of money and retention so stop criticising it

[trim ingot]

No it really wasn't imo

The items being better is debatable since it mostly benefited top teirs but it killed the powers system

[indigo verge]

i guess you’re the authority on game systems now?

[heavy magnet]

But you see, the armory is bad because it’s personal for them.

They’re alright with only viewing women as sex objects, but the moment their enjoyment of life is impeded is where they draw the line.

It’s just so shallow, and you can see right through the excuses.

[vocal crest]

They probably had their reasons...

[tiny yew]

The problem is thinking that women wearing revealing clothing = being sex objects. I'm not accusing you of being too closed-minded because 'oh devs had their reasons'. I'm accusing you of being too closed-minded because you are literally incapable of understanding why Supervive's female character designs are not morally wrong: they have no moral significance whatsoever and people's appreciation of the designs for what they are carries no moral significance about those who appreciate them. I gave you a counterfactual to explain and you ignored it.

You argued essentially that 'all female character designs with revealing clothing are objectifying' and I presented you with a counterexample: 'IRL women are free to wear revealing clothing if they wish without objectifying themselves, and if you want to portray this IRL phenomena in a character, you have no choice but to make that character have revealing dress'. You then ignore the counterexample altogether and your argument devolves into posturing.

[rain forge]

How is this tuff? I'd take modern anime designs over it anyday.

[raven frost]

Heathen

HE GOT THAT SHIT ON

[heavy magnet]

What IRL women wear isn't important. What is important is the fact that the designers have that as an excuse to objectify women.

[rain forge]

only looks good because it looks modern. The least good looking part is the helmet which is the most non-modern part of the artwork.

[raven frost]

But I never said we should copy paste from showa and heisei

But thay we should take more queues from them

Like shin kamen rider did

Like godzilla zero one did

[heavy magnet]

It's not like saying you can't be racist because you have black friends-It's like saying you can't be racist because you read about a black person who was okay with racism.

[raven frost]

Hell we have a succesful anime series thats legit all about a showa guy

[rain forge]

I mean its all taste, but do you find this tuff?

[raven frost]

Aughhhhh ichigo your swaggggg

Your too toughhhhh

[rain forge]

the mech looks cool in this

[raven frost]

Shin kamen rider jist proves me right slight modernization of the suit still makes him look good

And KR have done what I said and remixed it for a modern audience a lot

Like 01

You can see how much hongo influences his style

[rain forge]

Passable to me. Maybe I'm just not a fan of the insect eyes/heads.
I feel like live action is also harder to not make look cringy when it comes to these kinds of suits.

[raven frost]

Oh its always going to be cringe

[rain forge]

Cant help but give off "made for children" vibes

[raven frost]

You have to power through it

If ur not an insect guy there are other ones

[rain forge]

Better

Reminds me of some power ranger suits

[heavy magnet]

The Humble Timeranger:

[raven frost]

Some of the same teams work on it

[heavy magnet]

Episode 22 does not exist

[raven frost]

These r my goats personally

Love the garo suits

Godddddd he soooo toughhhhhh

[tiny yew]

What IRL women wear IS relevant. If you have moral objections to the way a character is portrayed, you are limiting what IRL phenomena character designers can portray to an approved set of feminine appearances.

And for the record, there's nothing morally wrong with Mercury's
underboob or any sexualised character design ever, frankly. Character designs carry no moral weight. Anyone who can properly separate fiction from reality can see this. You can't.

It's all preference

[heavy magnet]

Alright, I guess you're okay with the character designs in those banned Looney Tunes cartoons, then.

Because there's a reason those cartoons have been banned.

[raven frost]

I dont think its the designs that got them banned

It could be that they were actually members of the third reich

[rain forge]

sex and sexuality isn't morally wrong, yet also not suitable to necessarily overexpose children to. A cartoon made for children shouldn't have the same type of characters as one for a broader audience. Also not all parents want their children to see women in skimpy clothes. That's less about morals and more about personal views and ideals.

[raven frost]

Oh you were talking about the skimpy outfits

Not the nazis

Got it

[rain forge]

maybe he was talking about nazis and stuff

[tiny yew]

You'll have to be more specific honestly

[rain forge]

I just assumed because of the topic

[heavy magnet]

Well, it starts with a "B" and ends with a "lackface".

[rain forge]

Cooler than most, will agree with that 😂

[heavy magnet]

And double points for most people at the time being okay with it...sound familiar, smartass?

[tiny yew]

Ah okay. Yeah the problem there is the moral deficiency of the character designers themselves.

For the Looney Tunes cartoons, not Supervive

[rain forge]

It's all about context though, right? In a documentary about blackface these wouldn't be out of place. I haven't seen the show but black depictions themselves are also not wrong, but if you put it in a context where they are portrayed as dumb etc. then its a problem. But again its all about context.

But to get back to the main point. Which was that sexualized characters aren't inherently morally wrong. It's again about context. What medium is it in, why is it in there, what's the audience etc.

You could argue sexualized characters are morally wrong because they are there to exploit men's sexual drives/impulses to make them play the game. But you can say the same for beauty or for dopaminergic game-systems (which all good games abuse).

[heavy magnet]

"Non-ugly" is different from "designed to possibly be a stripper".

Plus, being fun is what games are supposed to be. The female Hunters could all be unique, and SUPERVIVE would play just as well.

[rain forge]

beauty and sexappeal have different kinds of appeals but they appeal to audiences either way. Many women enjoy playing sexy characters and many men do too. I get the point of wanting a game that doesn't focus on that but that's still just personal preference. Other players want that in their games and that's not morally wrong.
I agree SV could be more creative with designs and that making characters sexy can be a lazy approach to some extent (because boobs and thighs are easier to draw than to come up with amazing and unique designs) but I'm still not convinced I'd call that morally wrong. Just lazy and uninspired at best.
I'd also be happy with great designs that also feature characters with sexappeal though, like marvel rivals for example or Guilty Gear Strive.

[heavy magnet]

I'd prefer if the oversaturation of sex appeal in video games came to an end.

[rain forge]

Yeah sure but I can also say "The Hunters could all be dressed like strippers and the game would play just as well". But thats not the point.

[heavy magnet]

None of this compromise bullshit. You can design female characters without giving them sex appeal and still make them attractive, and you can make unique looking female characters.

You've just been spoiled for so long that you think there's no other way.

[rain forge]

I agree but that's still not about morals

That's about good design, not about whether skimpiness is morally wrong or right

You can make good designs that are skimpy and not skimpy

And it has nothing to do with morals

[tiny yew]

The banned Looney Tunes designs were a window into the behavior of evil people. When you look through a window and don't like what you see, surely you don't condemn the window as evil, right? Same here. The female character designs are a window into the moral character of the devs. The designs themselves are morally neutral.

If you think the developers are sexist, just say that instead of arguing about character designs.

[tiny yew]

You wanna know something crazy? I actually agree with you here. The difference is I'm honest enough to admit that for me it's a matter of preference, and you wanna make it about morals

[heavy magnet]

If you actually used your eyes for once instead of using your Reddit Degree Of Debate, then you would know I've done this multiple times.

[tiny yew]

I know you have. You missed the point of my post

[heavy magnet]

Alright, then why try and make it seem like I'm attacking the designs instead of the people behind them?

Because you aren't actually doing this because you agree. You're just saying this because you want to keep these kinds of people making these kinds of designs.

[rain forge]

I wanna understand your position better. Are you saying that the character designs are morally wrong because the devs/designers are using them to attract players. Or are you saying they are wrong because you believe skimpiness in general is morally wrong?

[tiny yew]

I don't agree that the devs are sexist. They're not

I only agreed with you that sex is too everpresent in character designs, but for me it's preference and for you it's morals.

[heavy magnet]

Both. I'm saying character designs like Mercury, Mai Shiranui, Ivy from Soulcalibur, wherever they're from, are a sign that the developers are lazy, unmotivated, and greedy.

[rain forge]

Why do you believe that? Because the characters are skimpy?

[tiny yew]

Attracting players is not morally wrong.
Skimpiness is not morally wrong.

[heavy magnet]

Exactly. The phrase "sex sells" has existed for a long time, so I don't see why challenging that by saying sex is both a lazy way to sell something and harmful to women is invalid.

[rain forge]

Looking up Mai Shiranui and Ivy from Soulcalibur I personally quite like these designs.

[tiny yew]

It isn't harmful to women and it isn't lazy. Generating sex appeal when tons of other people are trying to do the same takes talent lol

[heavy magnet]

Well, that should tell me everything about what kind of person you are.

[tiny yew]

Posturing

[raven frost]

Mai has a perfectly serviceable design

It fits with her character and lore

[heavy magnet]

Her character and lore is either "boobs" or "obsessed with some dude".

[raven frost]

SHE IS A COMMITWD RELATIONSHIP WITH ANDY BOGARD

WHAT

WDYM OBSESSED

THEY ARE TOGETGER

[heavy magnet]

You can smell the objectification off of her.

[raven frost]

THEY ARE IN A LOVING RELATIONSHIP

SHE ONLY CONTANTLY HARPS ON IT BC ANDY HAS COMMITMENT ISSUES AND WONT MARRY HER YET

AND SHE MOCKS HIM A BIT FOR IT

IN GOOD FUN

SHES JOKING

[heavy magnet]

Cool, so another example of the sexism that went into her character.

[raven frost]

THATS NOT SEXISM DUMBASS

[tiny yew]

lol even allies getting ragebaited. cinema

[rain forge]

It CAN be a lazy way to sell something. I'm just making a difference between something being well designed and something having skimpiness. My point is that you can have good character designs with and without skimpiness. So it can be a lazy design with or without skimpiness. Just that a lazy design with skimpiness might still attract more players than one without.

Sexualization being harmful to women is a broader topic and a complex one I think. I do think it can be. Especially when characters are reduced to their sexappeal. I think sexuality is part of everyone so it isn't inherently wrong, its just a question of whether all media reduce women to sexappeal or focus on other aspects as well.
And it's also a matter of the medium itself. Some are made to appeal to men who want to see such, others are meant for broader audiences whether it'd be healthy to not oversexualize female characters.

I think SV could be more creative with it and IS being lazy to some extent. But I still wouldn't go out of my way to call them morally corrupt because of it.

[raven frost]

THATS ANDY BEING STUPID

ANDY IS STUPID

YHATS THE POINT

ANDY IS TOO WRAPPED UP IN HIS TRAINING TO SEE THAT MAI IS READY TO SETTLE

[rain forge]

That I like sexy characters?

[heavy magnet]

And the writers decided to write him like that too.

[raven frost]

ITS AN ANDY ISSUE

Yo rq

Do you have king of fighters wing

Like

Have u played it or anything

Fatal fury cotw will work too

Unless ur rdy for a ft10 stop FUCKING TALKING ABOUT MY SERIED

YOU KNOW NOTHING

Oh my god such a one sided obsession

How sexist is this bro

She got MARRIED TO THE MAN SHE LOVES???

WHAT BLASPHEMY

[heavy magnet]

Oh, you mean the one character she's been shipped with since the 90's? That one?

[raven frost]

SHIPPED???

[heavy magnet]

And it doesn't change the fact that this and COTW are the most clothes she's worn since FF2.

[raven frost]

SHIPPED?????

[rain forge]

careful, boobs too big. morally wrong

[raven frost]

SHIPPEDDDDD???¿¿¿°¿°¡°¿°¿°¿

SHES BEEN DATING HIM

LOSER

THEY ARE DATING

ITS NOT A SHIP

[heavy magnet]

Says the one simping for someone as basic as Mai.

[tiny yew]

You don't suppose.... his entire worldview couldn't be founded in a lack of perspective on human affairs... right?

[raven frost]

I am not simping for her loser

I am a fan of mai and Andy's relationship because ive actually played those games

I adore that its a bit of a subversion

Andy likes mai

And everyone knows it

But hes afraid to tie the knot

[heavy magnet]

If you're adding in sex appeal to a character when it's already oversaturated, you're part of the problem.

[raven frost]

He wants to fight until he no longer can

He dosent want mai to be held down by him if he gets injured

So he refuses to marry her

And mai UNDERSTANDS THAT

Shes pushy on him because she obv wants nothing more than a ring and to spend the rest of her life with him

But she understands how important his training is to him

Its a very mature take on romance

And it went over your head

Bc mai has boobs

[heavy magnet]

It's kind of hard to overlook that when that seems to be her defining trait.

[raven frost]

NO ITS JOT

im gonna cry

Im getting ragebaited at 10 am

[heavy magnet]

It's like trying to give the Joker a sympathetic backstory: Sure, it helps with explaining who he is, but it's The Joker.

[raven frost]

Obviously mai is a very attractive woman

[heavy magnet]

That man has a higher kill count than some entire horror franchises.

[raven frost]

Its a part of who she is that she is confident in how attractive she is

[rain forge]

I think we have sort of culturally inherited a lot of moral judgement about sex/sexappeal from religious beliefs christianity/islam. I think that often impacts these conversations.
The thing is I also agree with many points people make about seeing issues with oversexualization in media. I just don't see sexappeal as the inherent problem. But rather reducing women to something (such as sexappeal) rather than exploring different facets and layers of human beings. It's just that there is also a valid place for sexuality to be part of that.

It being utilized so much in terms of "sex sells" is more or less a product of capitalism and a culture where appealing to base desires in order to make as much money as possible is incentivized and sometimes necessary to compete.
It's a broader cultural issue. But imo not one of there being inherently anything morally wrong with skimpiness/sexappeal etc.

[raven frost]

But its not her defining feature

Its her love for andy

For her grandfather

For the shiranui ryuu style

Mai is devoted to the protection and uplifting of everyone around her

[heavy magnet]

Well, then why did they steadily build up her sex appeal over the years?

[rain forge]

So your point then isn't against sexualization in general but against making more sexualized characters because we already have so many?

So if it was like 20% it would be okay?

[heavy magnet]

If you compare her FF2 design to some of her later designs, you'll notice it.

[raven frost]

Because she is attractive

[heavy magnet]

5% of all female characters is as high as I would go.

[raven frost]

She just over the years ending up looking more like how she was supposed to look

Mai is sexy

But sexy is not all that she is

[tiny yew]

IDK man I think you are the problem. You and anyone who acts like you. Let people enjoy what they like. It's NOT harming anyone or their perception of women like you think. Everyone has a responsibility to make sure they don't delude themselves and actually talk to real women, regardless of what they like. Get some real life experience you know? The only problem is when people don't get life experience. People don't become deluded about women unless they never leave the house. That's not a media problem it's a culture problem

[rain forge]

So if Mai Shiranui represented only 5% of characters in videogames for example, then I wouldn't be morally wrong for liking the design (as you have insinuated I'm a somehow reprehensible person because I find appeal in it).

[rain forge]

I agree to some extent. But there is also a point to be made for how media influences us. Pr0n does cause issues with how people relate to sexuality and can negatively impact how they explore it in real life with real partners.

[heavy magnet]

By letting people enjoy what they like, you get crap like The Coffin Of Andy And Leyley.

[tiny yew]

IDK what that is

If no crimes were committed in making it it's probably fine though

[heavy magnet]

Well, I'll sum it up: Even without the Sweet Home Alabama nonsense, that game seems like it's written by an edgy 14 year old.

[tiny yew]

Sounds like a dogshit game

[raven frost]

Is there no room for games written by edgy 14 year olds

[rain forge]

No, thats morally wrong

[raven frost]

R u the arbiter of what art is good enough to be published

[rain forge]

Anything I dont prefer is morally wrong

[tiny yew]

Watch out you're turning into M64 lol

[heavy magnet]

I don't know, should we bring back minstrel shows because some people like them?

Should we not judge them for it, because apparently it's not morally wrong?

[tiny yew]

Nah no one would want that

[heavy magnet]

So you admit there's a line that shouldn't be crossed, even though there would be some kind of audience for that?

[tiny yew]

No I'm saying it's distasteful and there isn't a substantial audience for it besides maybe the most scrungly edgelords

[raven frost]

You dismissed Andy and whatever on the grounds of quality not morality

Unless you think lack of quality is lack of morality

[heavy magnet]

Alright, then Mai's design is dogshit and contributing to harm towards women.

Two things can be true if they don't contradict each other.

[tiny yew]

Niether one is though lol

[raven frost]

Wait so you do?

Also mais design does not-

You are not going to ragebait me today

Ft10 me in cotw

[rain forge]

You know what works better than simply condemning things? Actually bringing awareness to things. Having open dicsussions and conversations. Most racism is a product of lacking awareness and experience and being run by fears and prejudices. The antidote to that is exposure and communication and education.

We won't get to a place where media stops oversexualizing by condemning sexuality itself (that leads to its own issues which ends up hurting women as much as men) but rather by generally bringing more awareness to the topic. That's why I dont even disagree with pointing out that SV could have more varied and unque designs. I just think the approach of fighting a moral crusade against sexuality and skimpiness only serves to alienate a huge group of people who might agree with your cause to some extent but not if you make it morally wrong to like sexy things or even want sexy things in your media within the right contexts.

@heavy magnet

[heavy magnet]

There is no "right context" in a world that objectifies women at almost every corner.

Jaiden Animation is an ace woman, but people pour our NSFW art of her against her will because they have the minds of sex pests.

So excuse me for making this a "moral crusade" when it's the only right option in this godforsaken world.

[rain forge]

Why? Why is there no context for sexuality? If I'm with my gf and she puts on a skimpy outfit for me before we have our fun together, is that wrong because we live in a world where media oversexualized women oftentimes?
In the same way, if I watch an nsfw video to play with myself or get in the mood with my partner, is that morally wrong because we live in world where oversexualization exists?

Imo there is always a right context for things regardless. You're still missing the difference between inherently condeming sexuality VS recognizing where media has abused sexuality for profit and mass-appeal (appealing to base desires).
It's like saying wanting dopamine is wrong because tiktok and media abuses that mechanism to exploit consumers.

[heavy magnet]

1. This involves your consent along with your (totally real) GF's consent.
2. You do not want to know the amount of shady stuff that goes on with NSFW videos and art. Aside from Jaiden Animations, does Shadman ring any bells?

[rain forge]

How is consent relevant in this case? Can you expand?

There is a lot of shady stuff with nsfw content as is there with many industries. Still has little to do with demonizing sexuality.

Culture has tried supressing sexuality before and to label it has morally wrong. Let me tell you that didn't go too well. You can integrate human base desires or demonize them. The second has never worked out well for humanity. The first isn't easy to do but its the only realistic way.

[heavy magnet]

If "human base desires" involves being allowed to objectify every woman out there, then your GF is better off dumping you if she actually exists.

"Realism" is bullshit that cynical people in power sling around to feel smart. Just because it hasn't worked "before" doesn't mean it won't work again.

Is a Baked Alaska impossible because it seems challenging to make? Of course not. You just need to get the recipe right or have somebody else help instead of giving up.

[flat grove]

comparing something subjective to something that has things that can be debated logicly, like that the entire retention mechanism within armory is something that only really benefits those that are already engaged by the game enough to not care about these kinda retention mechanics vs it being a horror for people that try the game, since they know from the getgo that theyll never get ahead of everyone else

these arguments are so shit to justify having this one sided conversation its just emberassing atp

we even know the devs reason why they did the armory, retention

[indigo verge]

but nobody thinks that women wearing revealing clothing is automatically sexualising them. you are again arguing with someone you made up. the problem we're pointing out is that practically every woman in the game wears something revealing

[flat grove]

again, another thing about intentions, "they had their reasons" isnt a justification, i didnt even say that, i just said that they are a multitude of motivations that can flow into the same result, i criticized that u bring the entire argument down to 1 thing which is just simply unrealistic unless the devs literally claim that themselves.

And even then you can make arguments for different aspects reasoning behind it

[indigo verge]

holy shit why do you guys keep trying to argue with hyperboles that are purely there to make you realise how ridiculous your line of thinking is

[flat grove]

since its purely subjective until the intentions get explained by the one who made it

thats how art works

[indigo verge]

mr reading comprehension

i don't think armory is a good system

[flat grove]

"oh everyone elses arguments are bad, i wont explain why, my own arguments are almost always shit and i also wont ever accept why either"

[flat grove]

I think me actually explaining why the armory argument was bad is a good display of it.

youre so mad for no reason

just leave already

[indigo verge]

i've explained why plenty of times, it's cause the arguments you're arguing against are almost every time something i don't believe

[flat grove]

this isnt about women for you anymore

[indigo verge]

you're arguing against someone you made up iny our mind

[flat grove]

its just rage induced delusion

[indigo verge]

i'm mad because of how insufferable you are to talk to

it's infuriating

[flat grove]

yyoure not here to have a discussion or to talk about creative topics

youre here to be mad

[indigo verge]

i was here to have an actual discussion of substance

but you have strawmanned me so many fucking times

that i indeed got annoyed

go figure

[flat grove]

Idk man, ive had more than enough conversations in here that didnt lead to toxic talk while u cant even write 1 thing in here without multiple people pointing out its flaws and you immediately clowning on their arguments without even explaining why

[indigo verge]

you keep pointing out flaws in arguments you made up based on a misinterpretation of what i'm saying

that's the fucking problem

you're arguing against things i never even said

[flat grove]

Noones strawmanning either, you made the DOA example initially, you made the armory example initially

[indigo verge]

so i spend the entire conversation just going 'i literally didnt say that' or 'i clearly didnt mean that'

[flat grove]

I used them as comparison because theyre both extremes YOU picked

[indigo verge]

of course that gets fucking annoying

[flat grove]

if you dont like ur points argued, dont make shit arguments

[rain forge]

Is that what you think I was trying to say? Idk if youre being bad faith or dont get my arguments. Also no need to attack me personally (the gf thing) :)
Just having an intellectual discussion here. Mb if some earlier comments I made seemed condescending.

[flat grove]

Id like to say its not that hard, but you make it seem very hard.

[indigo verge]

yes and both of these examples were hyperboles that i clearly did not stand by, merely made as an example of how your line of thinking can justify literally anything no matter what it is

[raven frost]

I liked this better when we were talking about heisei character design...

[indigo verge]

but you engage with it as if it's a point i stand by

[heavy magnet]

good point

[flat grove]

your hyperboles dont make sense. thats why they get argued, so dont make shitty hyperboles.

[flat grove]

exactly

[indigo verge]

because literally all you can do over and over is misinterpret or mischaracterise my arguments

[flat grove]

I should just stop responding to this extremistic lunatic atp

[heavy magnet]

Alright, SpaceGodzilla: Yay or Nay?

[flat grove]

Hes not here to talk about design he just wants people to accept his fucked up kinda one sided worldview

[flat grove]

First one i watched so yay xD

Im a sinner

i cant deny it

[indigo verge]

i've had plenty normal conversations with other people you're the only person i've been this way toward

and it's purely because of how insufferable you are to talk to

[raven frost]

Hes okay

Not my favorite godzilla variant icl

But hes a pretty cool take on godzilla

I do enjoy him

[heavy magnet]

I’m leaning more toward Yay, since while he was kind of bland in his debut film, I think he could work if some Reverse Flash elements were put into his character. (i.e. loveable hater, and by “love”. I mean “love to hate”)

[raven frost]

Isn't that just destroyah

[heavy magnet]

I feel like in the Monsterverse, he would be redundant because of Skar King filling a similar niche.

[raven frost]

No clue who that is

[heavy magnet]

Actually, part of the reason I want Destoroyah in the Monsterverse is because I thought he was kind of bland in his debut film.

[rotund crystal]

skar king is a big monky

[rain forge]

Just the internet. People wanting to get riled up and argue over things. Its fun from time to time. And for some an everyday game :D This threat is the biggest depate-bait in this server though.

[rotund crystal]

skinny lanky one

[raven frost]

The red one?

[rotund crystal]

yea w the whip

[raven frost]

I didnt watch that icl

[rotund crystal]

was pretty cool but i am biased so idk

[heavy magnet]

I remember reading the Wikizilla page for him and thinking “Oh, he must be kickass!”, then watching the movie and being like “…That’s it? That’s Destoroyah? That was just the same as every other Heisei kaiju!”

[flat grove]

i always think you can reason with people until i meet someone that has never had a conversation with people about their worldview irl, that never had the luxury of a sheltered mind

[raven frost]

OH MY GOD STOP

HES DIFFERENT

RVERYONE ELSE IS UNDER MIND CONTROL OR LIKE A LITERAL BABY

[flat grove]

MisterSixtyFour the biggest Destoroyah hater

[raven frost]

Detsoryah is maliciously destroying everything

[indigo verge]

what kind of weird assumptions are you making

[rotund crystal]

yea nah he is tuff man

[raven frost]

He is fully aware that people are dying when he walks

[indigo verge]

the problem is that talking to you feels like being ragebaited on repeat

[raven frost]

He actually enjoys it

Hes a sadist

[indigo verge]

but afaik you're not ragebaiting but you actually think you're making a point

which somehow makes it even worse

[rotund crystal]

he chose his own name thats how sadistic he is lmao

[indigo verge]

genuinely i'd rather you were this insufferable on purpose but at this point i'm starting to think you actually don't realise it

[rotund crystal]

these guys yapping about arguing in the godzilla thread... take it to general channel fellas...

[flat grove]

I miss when villains where just allowed to have no more motivation than just being evil tbh

I feel like people get lost in the plot way too much trying to make their villain reasonable

[glass drum]

how is this thread still up

[rotund crystal]

me too. i enjoy good backstory other than evil but when its overdone it just becomes bland.

LMAO

[flat grove]

welcome to our godzilla ted talk

[glass drum]

but the binary thread got insta shut down

[feral light]

WHERE LIFE

[raven frost]

Its such a unique thing too bc arguably most of the kaijus arent even evil

They are just confused or mind controlled

They arent even villians

But destroyah was a real villian

Thats why hes my goat.

[flat grove]

usually when threads get shut down its either because theyre similar threads or the purpose of the thread is malicious in nature, i think with the thread you mean was closed and redirected to this one (although im not sure which one u mean)

[flat grove]

thats kinda based

[rain forge]

Human reasoning is informed and strongly influenced by feelings and experiences. Youre usually not just arguing with an intellectual position put peoples deeply seated feeling, woundings and identities. If what you say is a threat to that they will usually take it personally and fight till the bitter end. We all do it to some degree. Thats why its good to learn to detach ideas from identity to some extent. It takes maturation to not take everything so personally and have good faith debates.

[flat grove]

yeah im aware, but ive been feeling like people have been pushed to extremes within everything alot harder nowadays and i think the internet is mostly to blame for it. Its so easy to get into sheltered bubbles that give you the illusion of only one position being right

[heavy magnet]

I’m aware of that, but I feel like the special effects don’t do much of a good job showing that.

Granted, post-Biollante Heisei kaiju were pretty clunky, so I can’t specifically single out Destoroyah for that.

[raven frost]

I mean he had like 3 forms

So I can see the sfx guys being a bit overwhelmed

[heavy magnet]

Oh yeah, I love that part of his character. I can definitely see it straining the design team, though.

If Destoroyah does make it to the Monsterverse, I’d be down for him to have Bagan design cues to streamline it.

[raven frost]

Im kinda hoping they do kiryu next icl...

[heavy magnet]

The Aggregate form can be his land form, the Flying form can be his sky form, another could be his sea form, and his Perfect form could be a fusion of the land and sky form in terms of power.

[raven frost]

Just speedrun to him...

Show me akane and kiryu...

[heavy magnet]

Also, more usage of the Horn Katana. It’s such a cool move, and it sucks that they only used it in a few scenes in his movie.

[rain forge]

Thats true. Algorithmic echochambers for people who live more online than irl. On the flip side the internet enables a broader worldview and more open mind than ever before if one is willing to look for different perspectives and learn from different people. But most people arent wired that way.

[heavy magnet]

Another reason I’d love Destoroyah in the Monsterverse is that with Skar King, they’ve more than shown off that the monsters can be as expressive as the human cast.

[flat grove]

yes definetly, if more people could use it that way, this thread wouldve been in the gutter months ago

[heavy magnet]

Destoroyah’s okay as he is now, but I imagine some wicked grins and other expressions would sell the character even more.

[raven frost]

True...

[heavy magnet]

https://tenor.com/view/megaguirus-godzilla-smirk-smile-2000-gif-14983910711627811353

(Exhibit A)

[flat grove]

I love this kinda stuff in anime and movies alot.

even in games

The opening scene of killzone in the german dub is basically just a very questionable speech by german history standards done by the enemy in the game and at the end of that speech he has that evil grin that basically became my standard of evil for a long time growing up with media

https://tenor.com/view/killzone-helghast-gif-13219563782466326331

that shit had me enlist for the fictional army big time

I feel like nowadays we try too hard to just make everything smug because modern examples of it work really well, but 90% of the time its just a miss

like the only time i can remember it working is the JJK scene in which sukuna tells everyone to stand still until he claps or he kills everyone that moves while a meteor is falling on them just to get a hit of dopamine lol

When did we unlearn to make villains just evil and it working well ngl

[crude spire]

I really like Jack horner from the puss in boots movie. Just irredeemably evil for no good reason. Its so peak.

[flat grove]

Y E S

[crude spire]

Like we dont need incredibly "complex" and "relatable" villains. We got people in real life who are legit demons for no good reason.

We technically we do need those complex villains but not EVERY villain needs to be that.

[flat grove]

or for pathetic reasons too, theres enough people that had a few bad experiences and blame the world for it

[flat grove]

im more bothered by the lack of variety than prefering either. I liked the villains in eldenring striving for full control for example, which is an evil and relatable intention, but the story is so ambigious that you cant really count it

[crude spire]

Then there are villains like Frollo who is one of the best written villains disney has made cus he is so believably evil.
He is just VERY selfish

https://tenor.com/view/death-glare-frollo-glare-angry-eyebrows-gif-27561728

Terrifyingly real villain because there are and has been people like him in history who have done horrible things.

[flat grove]

disney honestly had a really good read on just evil since its all you really needed to convey evil to a child

but they cooked way too hard with frollo for sure

He was the first time i encountered this thing of someone being mad when others have fun without him being involved

and i thought is ridicilous

well i was wrong xD

[crude spire]

They used to have good villains.

These days its forced twist villains all the time.

[flat grove]

yeah the animation era cooked it

im refering to pre 3D CG era of disney

[crude spire]

There was the treasure planet movie with a twist good guy

https://tenor.com/view/you-got-it-makings-greatness-in-you-treasure-planet-gif-20508234

And the real villain of the movie just ended up being the super greedy/power hungry crewmate

Probably the only complaint about this movie I have is the one annoying robot at the end.

[flat grove]

i have never watched it it wasnt very popular in germany sadly

like german cinema was glazing the iron giant for ages

When original storys were still popular, good days

[crude spire]

Disney intentionally sabutaged up the marketing of the movie to make it seem "animated movies are dead"
And switch to 3D animtation

[heavy magnet]

I actually really like B.E.N.

Robots was also a childhood movie for me, so I’m probably biased

[crude spire]

He wasnt to my taste. Very innoffensive in otherwise a very good movie. Probably why he stood out so much.

Rest is so good the one mid part stands out

[flat grove]

this makes a ton of sense

[crude spire]

Disney has done it a few times.

Just intentionally messing up marketing for a movie/series because it doesnt align with corporate interest (chasing trends and cutting costs)

[crude spire]

I do wonder if its somewhat intentional.

Making people get into the extreme ends and then usher them to claw each others throats out.
As you make big money from all the engagement/interaction on your site.

[flat grove]

Wanting to live in the comfort of never having to question urself is human

taking advantage of it is what corporate has been doing for a while now

[crude spire]

+They wont go after you because they are so busy fighting each others. Even though you are to blame

[flat grove]

its not really a question anymore, most major media platforms dont ban repeat offenders of fake news and propaganda

and their algorithms encourage it

they just claim it isnt intentional because "people just like to watch this"

and obviously theres also a big political incentive as u said urself

you keep them busy i keep them dumb and poor isnt a new concept

the internet just made people alot more confident while being a victim of this

like people calling themselves "woke" for being radical extremist leftists

[crude spire]

Hoping atleast the EU would put some regulations on the internet.
I remember when I started getting into the internet for the first time when I was like 15 years old.
And within a year I was convinced they should regulate the big tech corpos asap

And I am talking regulations on the tech giants

[flat grove]

the eu wont ever propose a bill that could accomplish this without the potential for censorship on their own end

They already tried

but if you read the legal text, there intentionally always have been mechanisms to use for censorship within them

my country just likes to control europe lol

but imo, people that do large crypto scams should be in prisons.
People that defame others and spread fake news consistently shouldnt have a platform

but all media platforms propagate these things lol

[crude spire]

Im rn just waiting for a "woke bounce back" (lmao) as some people are calling.
The average person is seemingly getting quite tired of the constant shit being flung everywhere and growing quite discontent at the media giants.

[flat grove]

centrists will never have a spotlight unless the internet is castrated of engagement bait

the internet is just way too influential

[crude spire]

Atleast where I live. Could be that its just that I am surrounded by very educated people so

But even in the north your regular peeps are annoyed and mostly blame the rich.

And social media platforms

[flat grove]

i thought itd be like that in uni

i was naive xD

universitys in germany feel like a breeding ground for radicalization

[crude spire]

Uni here is like Omega woke

[flat grove]

our proffessors illegaly demand for us to gender and when we dont they subtract posts until someone makes them lose their jobs lol

[crude spire]

Partially has to do without how college cirruculum heavily favors media litteracy

[crude spire]

Teachers are very friendly and if anyone would even dare try that theyd be gone within a day or two

(has happened)

Man finlands a great place to be

[flat grove]

i envy you

i dropped out of uni because i couldnt be asked and already had ways to make generational wealth,
well mostly because i got very very sick xD

but the main reason im not going is because there isnt much to learn but alotta braincells and nerves to lose

[indigo verge]

illegally demand for you to gender

what does this entail

just geniunely wondering

[flat grove]

they are not allowed to make such demands here.
Very obviously so, the objective of scientific work is accuracy, not what kind of preference a professor has on how its written.

As long as its up to the standards set by the scientific community in ur field and accuretly represents whatever was asked from you, you cant deduct anything from them.

the entire process for this to stop happening once someone does this in germany just takes time.

germany is the realm of endless paperwork

thats why it keeps happening, alot of our profs still will ask us to gender, but wont deduct points. Generally within the german language since we have very complicated grammer, its just hard to have a good flow reading through gendered language, so i personally reject it. Theres also not enough scientific backing of it actually changing how people think than just breaking up gender roles within society early, something we also dont do nearly enough of in germany, id like to see how that works out first before forcing myself to downgrade hours of dedicated work

since i studied IT and since this shit is my lifeblood i care way too much, im aware of that, but id also not mess with it further if it was actually lawed in to be mandatory, its that some profs just have the audacity to try and be above the law that bothers me

[indigo verge]

i moreso mean what does gendering entail in this situation

what are you gendering

[flat grove]

oh mostly they ask you to just replace every noun with a masculinum as its common use to be used with its gendered version instead. And the kind of gendered version is also usually decided upon by the prof or the prof follows some kinda uni standards

something like
Bauer (Farmer)
becomes Bauer;in or Bauer*n or Bauer*innen theres countles forms

doing this once in a while is fine, but in german especially, this will cause for u to have to read it like that and ad 1-2 more syllables for every 3.5 ish words you read, which is just a headache for something that is meant to convey information mainly

i dont think anyone starts thinking more inclusively, the only ever opinion ive ever heard about it is that people are either unbothered because they just leave it out while reading or that they think its annoying when reading it out loud

it works alot better in english language imo since the entire gramattical structure isnt really making it so that nouns can have multiple forms to be used within the language so frequently

[broken wharf]

That's Beebo

[heavy magnet]

What I'm saying is that your excuses don't work.

Trying to shift the blame to "human desires", using whataboutisms, all that crap.

And if you or anybody else can say that the people that want some actual changes against objectifications are puritanical moral guardians, then I can say that the people in favor of them are a bunch of pervs who mask their desires with a phony sense of "artistic freedom".

[rain forge]

I tend to make quite nuanced cases for my arguments. I agree with you on a lot but also disagree on key parts. Your responses feel like strawmaning to me. Removing nuance from my arguments, sidestepping them and attacking me personally rather than engaging with my points.

My position gets all the way misinterprited/distorted to "i advocate for objectification of women" simply because I don't fully agree with every position of yours and challenge some instead.

Ofc you can approach conversations that way but it will put a limit on your ability to engage with different perspectives or see the world as more than just black and white.

Maybe you have the best intentions and just want to protect women from objectification, but this type of approach to discussions won't help imo. Just my 2 cents.

[flat grove]

it has never been about women, taking extreme positions to force a person with a broader perspective to narrow down to a onesided extremistic worldview harms women alot more than it helps.
Its all about having the moral highground by jumping on a bandwagon and feeling superior because i am right and u are wrong

From reading most of the points u were making id also agree that u have a fairly varied and well informed perspective on things. If someone calls that excusing or whataboutism when u start trying to convey how things really are, theyre just delusional ngl

and again noone has desires or is completely against the fact that objectification of women is a thing in media, most people just dont try to apply it to everything agressively where they see fit to make a huge issue out of it

Being radical and extremistic about ur points makes normal people not even just not want to agree with you, it harms your cause by them seeing how much of a bad example the people within ur cause are and then theyll carry over their opposition towards you, to your cause

you dont only fail informing them

youre actively turning people that dont even want to know what ure talking about anymore into ur enemys

[vocal crest]

Lmao

Hot damn that's a read

You are a paragon of rationality and benevolence

It's honestly not even worth talking to you because you fail not only to comprehend what others say but your own arguments and how they conflict with your own statements

Which is the main reason I don't bother to fully address your arguments. If you'll misrepresent my response, what's the point in putting in effort just to get called mentally ill and a misogynist

Here is a fun thought experiment. Did you know that I consider it wildly radical to take on a moderator position in a community and be this incapable of de-escalation and/or healthy and productive conversation?

Why are you espousing such radical views? Don't you know how ridiculous you look?

[broken wharf]

rub ma bellay

[flat grove]

Just saying shit to say shit again, everyone else in that conversation was talking about smth else again and someone chimes in and claims something that is basically subjecting an entire creative process to one thing only, i call it out as something that is by definition an extremist take, since nothing creative comes down to one thing, you can even argue that with doa for example. I wrote enough about it above. How is it extreme to say that having a varied opinion isnt xD

ill probs just stop interacting with u too atp

youre barely active on the disc

all you do is track what i do to be against me

ive spent way too much trying to reason with people that cant name a single example of what they claim

[broken wharf]

Who is someone he's named luke

[flat grove]

I clearly wasnt talking about him lol

[broken wharf]

Oh ok thanks for clarifying

[flat grove]

i was talking about the convo earlier yesterday, i dont think he was even part of that

couldve added that mb

rereading what i wrote it can be read like that ig

[heavy magnet]

It's all about projecting for them.

They have sexist tendencies, and try to deflect those onto other people to feel better.

Why else do you think the term "puritan" is so common when somebody brings up stuff like this? It's because they want people to think their enemies are the sexist ones, not them.

anyways, enough negativity

https://tenor.com/view/touhou-fumo-fumofumo-yuuka-happy-day-gif-1528938304802878700

[rotund crystal]

the lack of awareness in saying someone is projecting and calling someone a sexist while consistently being someone who is doing that 😂

[heavy magnet]

<@&1169318934902739024> I have no idea who keeps creating these burner accounts.

[harsh girder]

one day paqt will move on with his life

[flat grove]

Its paqt dont take anything he said seriously

Hes one of the most toxic people within this community

[storm python]

u would get if kura once u are enlightened it will click into place

[rotund crystal]

just needa buy a fedora and wear a trench coat then i’ll be enlightened

https://tenor.com/view/hat-lucas-mantin-hat-tip-gif-18200735

[storm python]

and move back in with ur mother

[hollow crane]

he is funny though

[hollow crane]

mo talking about anyone being enlightened but screaming for people to slit their wrists in a dead videogame is very funny

[hollow crane]

not til the game shuts down then he will get victory lap tbf

[heavy magnet]

You say that like you weren't teaming up with kura to say the most useless crap and sling out accusations left and right.

[flat grove]

cant deny that, hes made me laugh a few times, if he wasnt as much of a pain id be his biggest advocate

[crude spire]

If he wasnt like the worst person ever he would be someone to root for

[rotund crystal]

saying useless crap in your opinion. those are opinions. you literally told ppl to kill themselves over not liking an ugly rat character lol.

[heavy magnet]

I guess we’re just gonna gloss over the fact that you decided to accuse me of something that wasn’t true, then double down multiple times.

[rotund crystal]

nope. that was nuts.

and i guess you are going to gloss over the fact that you did exactly what you are accusing me of lmao.

how delusional 😂

[hollow crane]

You saying anything in response to that specific message is hilarious considering you also tell people to kill themselves for disagreeing in this thread. So why don't u go back to pretending im muted?

You are an unhinged terminally online adult furry ill never take anything you say seriously

And if I say anything mean to you it's not a bait I mean it

[gentle summit]

no hes not bro

[rain forge]

https://tenor.com/view/piano-bruce-almighty-keyboard-keyboard-warrior-fast-typing-gif-3416345

how ppl feel in this thread

[rotund crystal]

https://tenor.com/view/johnny-test-bling-bling-boy-red-button-alarm-alert-gif-22354784

how ppl feel posting a gif about ppl in a thread

[crude spire]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-chill-monkey-funny-monkey-monkey-relax-monkey-gangster-gif-7880154508083827354

How I feel just being a chill guy kn this thread

[storm python]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-lion-thinking-ragebait-rage-bait-monkey-gif-14090242814517187668

how people feel posting abt people posting abt how people feel

[storm belfry]

I love this thread so much, pls never stop

[broken wharf]

Family lets stop fighting please lets end this feud

I think we all should make amends with each other and hold hands together

[crude spire]

https://tenor.com/view/incinerator-gif-7464643

[raven frost]

Im not holding hands with anyone who likes mercurys design

I know what they do with them when people cant see